The gang’s all here!
With the starting five (plus a few more) back and under contract for the foreseeable future, the Hawks have at least given themselves a fighting chance to compete with the big boys (photo courtesy of my main man and former AJC photographer Pouya Dianat).
HAWKSVILLE - If continuity means anything in the NBA these days, the Hawks have done right by their own this summer.
Marvin Williams touched on it last week during a conversation we had the day before he signed his new contract, and again this afternoon in a teleconference with the media to discuss his new deal. A day after my initial talk with Williams, Al Horford and I discussed continuity briefly while he took a break from his work with the Basketball Without Borders program.
Dating back to last summer and extending all the way through training camp this year, the Hawks (if they can come to terms with captain and All-Star Joe Johnson on an extension) will have spent millions to keep their core in place for the foreseeable future.
“I think management is making the commitment to keep us together,” Williams said Tuesday. “And each year we’ve gotten better.”
Josh Smith’s $58 million deal was the first domino, albeit an offer sheet from Memphis to the restricted free agent power forward last summer that the Hawks matched before the ink was dry on the offer sheet. That swift move was followed up this summer with deals for Mike Bibby (3-years, $18 million), Zaza Pachulia (4-years, $19 million) and Williams (5-years, $37.5 million-base). Johnson’s 4-year extension, if signed, would be in the $64 million-range.
Full disclosure, math was never my strongest subject in school. But that’s a lot of cash spent, rightfully, on the heart, soul and guts of your team. Any team dreaming of winning big at the NBA level has to invest in its core or risk vanishing into the ether.
When Hawks center Al Horord talks,in English or Spanish, people tend to listen.
What the Hawks have done is neither groundbreaking nor extraordinary in the world of professional sports. But for a franchise mired in a malaise of mediocrity for the better part of a decade prior to the last 13 months, it’s a pretty impressive feat. ”Obviously, I think it’s pretty important to build on to what we’ve started,” Horford said during our phone conversation last week. And he would know, having played on successful teams every year of his college and professional career to date. “I’m glad Marv got his deal done, because we’re going to need all our guys back and ready to go this season.”
By no means does this excuse the Hawks from the responsibility of filling out the roster with quality players capable of supporting that core group. But it certainly helps that the core is in place right now – a nucleus with three wildly talented youngsters in Horford, Williams and Smith. That would be a heck of a core group by itself. So to have JJ, Bibby, Zaza, rookie Jeff Teague and even Jamal Crawford to add to the list makes the list that much more impressive. It’ll look even better with the addition of a name like Joe Smith, still in the works according to some well-placed sources that insist the Hawks won’t give up until someone pries Smith from their dead claws.
Will it win a championship in a league where the defending champion Los Angeles Lakers have stockpiled elite talent to go around Kobe Bryant and the Boston Celtics have assembled a star-studded army to battle the Lakers, Cleveland and Orlando for supremacy? No way. But the same can be said for solid young teams in places like Portland and Chicago as well. That’s just the reality of the situation.
What a rock-solid core does is give the Hawks a fighting chance to be relevant now and into the future. And despite cries for titles (things, mind you, that Hawks fans have never experienced) relevancy is the tangible goal that all teams must focus on before moving into championship mode.
Having witnessed my favorite team’s lone championship season of my lifetime (scroll down to the bottom, it’s there, I swear), I can sympathize with the desire to shed the middle ground for the higher ground. Having witnessed that championship season also made it painfully clear to me just how rare those occasions are, even when you have seemingly all the resources in the world at your disposal, that your squad actually cashes in on the big prize.
Would I trade 40 years of rooting for a a competitive or even upper-tier team for one title? Absolutely. But if I can get both, even if the titles only come once every 50 years, I’m not turning that down either. Back to my original point, and I apologize for swerving off course a bit but it is football season (and I smell a comeback season cooking in Ann Arbor), it all comes down to perspective for me.
Is it more important to be relevant and potentially a true player or not? I say stay relevant (given whatever constraints might be in place, and it’s no secret the Hawks have many) as long as you can. We’ve all seen the flip side and it’s ugly, real ugly.
Where the Hawks fit in the grand scheme of things depends on your perspective, as well. If being the fourth team in a three-team Eastern Conference race doesn’t strike you, that’s understandable. And they will have challenger for that fourth spot. But they certainly seems sure of themselves.
“I feel like people are obviously starting to respect our ball club,” Williams said during his teleconference. “People realize they are not going to come into Atlanta and get an easy win. I don’t think anybody in the league is doing that anymore. We’ve shown the last few years we can compete with anybody in the league. We certainly feel like we can compete with anybody in the league.”
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488 comments Add your comment
KevinA
August 13th, 2009
1:37 pm
Rufus1, we just disagree. If JJ and Bibby had better skill sets at feeding the ball to Al/Josh/Marvin/ZaZa we would have a much better offense. What can I say other than I believe we have to potential to be a much better team playing inside out rather than outside in.
Daniel
August 13th, 2009
1:39 pm
yes, Mr. Phil
KevinA
August 13th, 2009
1:52 pm
Rufus1
KevinA
I am not a JOSH HATER!! I think his is overhyped, because he dunks.
I do not over hype Josh, in fact it may take this season and yet another for Josh and the rest of our young players to develop and go to the next level. None of our players are super stars including JJ who is a fringe all star.
Last year we saw spurts of better team play. This year and the next Woody and the back court need to work on style of play issues that involve the front court more.
doc
August 13th, 2009
2:26 pm
daniel sorry for the oversight, just thought you were relatin to my good bud and musician sautee.
Rufus1
August 13th, 2009
2:28 pm
KevinA
I agree that Woodson and this offense is the Problem. I HOPE IN THE END, I AM WRONG ABOUT JOSH!! I would love to have a home groan superstar.
Daniel
August 13th, 2009
2:48 pm
no worries doc… Have you heard Sharon Jones and the Dap Kings? They are a new group, but have that old soul vibe. Highly reccomended.
Blast
August 13th, 2009
3:10 pm
Lawd Have Mercy!
Blog is booooorrrring as hell!
If this is what we have to look forward to until training camp, until the season opener….. then I will go nuts! Marvin better than Josh? Josh more valuable than Marvin? Who gives a rat’s ass? They both play for the Hawks and are locked in for years to come!
doc
August 13th, 2009
3:14 pm
will check it out daniel, thanks.
Daniel
August 13th, 2009
3:19 pm
yes, Blast… we are in a sad, sad time of the year right now. I hope that get Joe Smith signed if just for nothing else than to give us somehting to opine about.
Crickets
August 13th, 2009
3:24 pm
chirp, chirp, chirp, etc., etc., ……
gwite
August 13th, 2009
3:35 pm
Well, the “latest” rumor is that Joe Smith will probably resign(as i reup) with Cleveland. He, like Ben Wallace, probably realizes that no one is probably going to offer much more than a minimum contract.
Stating the Obvious
August 13th, 2009
3:41 pm
Hard to tell what Rod is more full of…straw or bull$hit.
Joe Smith signed yet?
Anakin Joe
August 13th, 2009
3:42 pm
OK, I’ll take a stab at starting a new debate… top 5 PFs in Hawks history (I only go back about 25-30 years so feel free to offer up older names if you have them):
1. Kevin Willis
2. Christian Lattner
3. Dan Roundfield
4. Josh Smith
5. Shareef Abdur-Rahim
niremetal
August 13th, 2009
3:49 pm
Uh…Bob Pettit is #1. Not even close.
Melvin
August 13th, 2009
3:49 pm
Anakin,
I’m too young to remember Roundtree but I don’t like Lattner at number 2. Although he was a viable part of the Hawks team success in the 90’s…
Melvin
August 13th, 2009
3:50 pm
I meant Roundfield…. I guess I really showed my age…
doc
August 13th, 2009
3:52 pm
aj, bill bridges in there somewhere.
Mink
August 13th, 2009
3:54 pm
Our team is being structured to grow together. We STILL are a young team, but within two or three years, we’re going to be considered a veteran team with a core group of guys that, like the Pistons, will have played together for a long time.
Whether Woody is there or not, I expect the offense will flow smoothly and will actually have a rhythm to it. I agree that Crawford is going to have to be in the game in order to take some pressure off Joe and allow Joe more shots. Marvin’s ability to continue knocking down open jumpshots is going to make the difference between us being a 90 point per game team and a 100 point per game team.
Al has to develop a more consistent mid-range shot, but I think he and Smoove need to focus more on scoring junk baskets. With their leaping ability, they should be able to snag more offensive boards than any duo in the league.
Smoove needs to do one of two things. He needs to develop a jumper, and KEEP it developed, or he needs to abandon the long-range shot. Does he have no humility? How can you keep jacking up jumpers when you’re probably the worst shooting power forward in the league. That’s pretty sad in itself. He also needs to grow up, stop pouting at referees, and hustle. He and Tyrone Corbin are the only Hawks I’ve ever truly despised at times. Corbin was for the same lack of a jumpshot but keeps on jacking it up reason, but at least he didn’t have an attitude problem…
Let these guys develop, bring along a few right pieces over the years, and see what happens. It could be something great.
Oh, and let’s make the league’s “salary cap” an actual salary cap. None of this luxury tax garbage. Some teams are just getting TOO stacked.
Mink
August 13th, 2009
3:54 pm
Our team is being structured to grow together. We STILL are a young team, but within two or three years, we’re going to be considered a veteran team with a core group of guys that, like the Pistons, will have played together for a long time.
Whether Woody is there or not, I expect the offense will flow smoothly and will actually have a rhythm to it. I agree that Crawford is going to have to be in the game in order to take some pressure off Joe and allow Joe more shots. Marvin’s ability to continue knocking down open jumpshots is going to make the difference between us being a 90 point per game team and a 100 point per game team.
Al has to develop a more consistent mid-range shot, but I think he and Smoove need to focus more on scoring junk baskets. With their leaping ability, they should be able to snag more offensive boards than any duo in the league.
Smoove needs to do one of two things. He needs to develop a jumper, and KEEP it developed, or he needs to abandon the long-range shot. Does he have no humility? How can you keep jacking up jumpers when you’re probably the worst shooting power forward in the league. That’s pretty sad in itself. He also needs to grow up, stop pouting at referees, and hustle. He and Tyrone Corbin are the only Hawks I’ve ever truly despised at times. Corbin was for the same lack of a jumpshot but keeps on jacking it up reason, but at least he didn’t have an attitude problem…
Let these guys develop, bring along a few right pieces over the years, and see what happens. It could be something great.
Oh, and let’s make the league’s “salary cap” an actual salary cap. None of this luxury tax garbage. Some teams are just getting TOO stacked.
O'Brien
August 13th, 2009
4:15 pm
If I’m Sund, I would offer Joe Smith a 1 year deal thats above market value. Sure, we may be bidding against ourselves, and he would be the 2nd big off the bench, but right now, we need a backup PF, and he is the best available (in my opinion). Also, signing him would keep him away from Cleveland and the other good teams that may be interested in him.
The Hawks have 10 players under contract, and if Josh or Al gets injured, is anybody comfortable playing RandMo 20 mpg? Plus Joe Smith is a veteran and would probably be the best big man Josh has played with. Who knows, maybe Joe S could teach Josh a thing or two.
I dont understand what the hold up is. It sounds to me like Sund refuses to overpay, which is usually the right thing to do, but in this case, I think he should make an exception.
The Truth
August 13th, 2009
4:15 pm
gwite
Source
Anakin Joe
August 13th, 2009
4:24 pm
Melvin, Shaft was more of a SG… he was always shooting. (rim-shot please).
Daniel
August 13th, 2009
4:25 pm
Bob Petit
Daniel
August 13th, 2009
4:27 pm
O brien- I agree with you, but I bet the hold up isn’t the money offered but the length of contract.
G-MAN
August 13th, 2009
4:30 pm
BA DA CHOO!
There you go AJ!:)
GeeMack
August 13th, 2009
4:30 pm
KevinA & Rufus1
I think the Hawks need to go more to the inside game. Therefore when we are getting creamed on defense by Bos, Cle, or Orl, we put some pressure on their interior defense to even the playing field. Al & JSmith can both be 15ppg & 10reb guys but they need more touches.
Also I think Woody is an excellent defensive coach that needs to hire an offensive minded assistance coach.
With all that said I do not believe the Hawks have the talent to get past the 2nd round. We are nowhere near as good as the top 3 teams in the east. Event the maturity of our young players. Know one the Hawks team will be a future HOF when they finish.
gwite
August 13th, 2009
4:41 pm
Truth,
As I said, it’s only a Yahoo sports “rumor”. Certainly not necessarily any “truth” to it.
But for me, hopefully Atlanta is wise enough to not be offering much more than minimum for him, and it looking at it rationally(form Joe’s viewpoint), we would need to put significantly more than Cleveland on the table.
gwite
August 13th, 2009
4:43 pm
^^ Forgot to put the link, if I can:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Joe-Smith-joining-the-Cleveland-Cavaliers-?urn=nba,182686
Big Ray
August 13th, 2009
4:53 pm
“You are not going to help me understand the game of basketball trust me.”
Well there it is. Okay, we can stop trying to discuss things with Rod. When the man himself tells you it’s useless, do you need a better clue? This is still my favorite: “My info is based on facts (and stats).” Oh, that’s just too good…
I think Ariose has the best rebuttal, though:
” But if your opinion of Marvin is truly “based on stats, my knowledge of the game, and situations.” Then there is NO WAY you can be in your normal coherent state of mind and beleive that we didn’t need Marvin in the playoffs.”
Damn. That one hit so hard, I’ll bet Sam felt it all the way over there in the Swats …..
Sautee
August 13th, 2009
5:00 pm
AJ,
Bob Pettit
Bill Bridges (at 6′6″, 230 he AVERAGED 11.9 reb. for his career!)
Danny Rounds
Kevin Willis
Al Horford (yes that’s a projection)
Sautee
August 13th, 2009
5:04 pm
Ray,
You reckon those “stats” included Marvin falling down 60% of the time?
doc
August 13th, 2009
5:07 pm
yup figured another old timer might remember bridges. i would take him tomorrow for this team. he was a beast. sautee remember bells and bridges?
Big Ray
August 13th, 2009
5:13 pm
O’brien ,
Doesn’t that seem odd to you? The idea of Sund refusing to overpay for a big man? One of the biggest criticisms leveled at him when we learned he was to be our new GM, was the fact that he had a history of picking big men in the draft that never really panned out, then overpaying for veteran big men.
In fact, some of the same people who were only too quick to point those issues out are the EXACT same ones who are now saying that Sund is the reason why we don’t have a big man.
I find it strange that a man both known and criticized for having an apparent fetish for bigs is now the sole, or even main reason why this team has not signed one. Change a long-standing “MO” overnight? That’s about like the Hawks suddenly becoming a run-all-the-time, offense-first, defense-if we feel like it-team. Would you automatically say that this was Woody’s idea?
I’m not buying it…
Sautee
August 13th, 2009
5:17 pm
doc,
Yeah, but my enduring memory of Bells was how many of Pistol Pete’s perfect passes went of his fingertips. He DID take up space nicely.
Actually that’s not fair. Walt Bellamy was a VERY good center, a HOF’er who had a nice career. But by the time he came here he was on the downhill side.
What would we think of a center today averaging 20.1 and 13.7? (his career stats)
rgbutterfly
August 13th, 2009
5:26 pm
I don’t understand the Hawks complaining about “bigs” when they had one in David Anderson. He played in Europe.Yet the Hawks traded his rights to Houston for a 2nd round pick. Houston has signed him to a multi-year contract to become their center. What gives? I understand giving away a big yet complaining about not having enough bigs. The Hawks are playing the same ‘ole games of old-give away a needed player but compain about not having the enough quality players.
doc
August 13th, 2009
5:28 pm
sautee, yeah, not the best handle on stone hands and on the slide but he might have been the best hawk center of all time. konkak, tree? nope. oops i might start sounding like clyde ….. after fifty years have we got a real center yet? not in my lifetime.
Sautee
August 13th, 2009
5:31 pm
doc,
I don’t know if you’ll remember it, but I once told you a story of meeting Bridges when I was a teen and they had just come to Atlanta. Total class act.
He also blocked out better than ANYBODY I can remember except for Bill Russell. Which is why he rebounded so well at his size.
Hey, we should get Bridges to tutor J-Smash in blocking out!
Sautee
August 13th, 2009
5:36 pm
doc,
You MAY be right, but I’d put Deke ahead of Bells. No by much though.
newkid
August 13th, 2009
5:43 pm
RX for boring blog (maybe). Of the Hawks, Falcons, and Braves, who’s best positioned (considering current young talent and ability of GMs to add missing pieces) to get to the most finals (i.e., NBA, Super Bowl, or World Series) during the 5-year period 2010 through 2014 (inclusive)?
O'Brien
August 13th, 2009
5:44 pm
Ray,
I think Joe Smith is the one remaining big Woody really likes, and Sund does have a history of reaching (or overpaying) for big men. Those 2 factors combined would lead one to believe that (1) the ASG will not allow Sund to spend more than the minimum to round out our roster (currently at 10, but we will need at least 13) or (2) Joe Smith does not want to play for the Hawks.
Assuming we dont get Joe Smith, my guess is we will sign Siler, Hunter, and one more minimum wage guy.
Daniel,
If the hold up is length of contract, then offer Joe Smith a 2 year deal for slightly more than market price. As a veteran big man, he could help us on the court with this play and maybe he could help Josh as well. After all, the Hawks need all the big man coaching help they can get. (What has Ty Hill done?).
gwite
August 13th, 2009
5:46 pm
rgbutterfly,
We need a “big” that bangs, rebounds, and defends. Not one that hangs around the perimeter jacking up 3’s.
Ken Strickland
August 13th, 2009
7:20 pm
My list of top Hawks PF is as follows:
(1) Bob Pettit
(2) Paul Silas
(3) Truck Robinson
(4) Kevin Willis
(5) Dan Roundfield
The list isn’t in any particular order.
doc
August 13th, 2009
7:38 pm
ken you are old as dirt rocks and sand. you of all folks, how can you leave bridges off the list? heh heh
bridges came in from st louis didnt he?
Hoops
August 13th, 2009
8:07 pm
Daniel & O’Brien,
If Joe Smith will not sign a 1 year contract for 2M then the Hawks should offer him a 2 year contract for 1M per year. That should solve the problem!
A Thinking Fan
August 13th, 2009
8:46 pm
Anakin Joe that’s “Old School” – Donny Hathaway to Marvin Gaye, but the best music. By the way, “What’s Going On” with BASG & getting some Bigs?
I MUS WRITE
August 13th, 2009
9:10 pm
Cannibalism- and Rod from College Park is whats for dinner….
I MUS WRITE
August 13th, 2009
9:12 pm
Whass up Officer friendly …..
I MUS WRITE
August 13th, 2009
9:14 pm
Officer Friendly whatz happnin
Melvin
August 13th, 2009
9:26 pm
Welcome back MV7…..
Sautee
August 13th, 2009
9:38 pm
Najeh,
We can celebrate our boy Mike gettin’ back!
Paid the price, bein’ nice, and now we’ll see that talent again.
I hope the Iggles give him a good shot.