The gang’s all here!
With the starting five (plus a few more) back and under contract for the foreseeable future, the Hawks have at least given themselves a fighting chance to compete with the big boys (photo courtesy of my main man and former AJC photographer Pouya Dianat).
HAWKSVILLE - If continuity means anything in the NBA these days, the Hawks have done right by their own this summer.
Marvin Williams touched on it last week during a conversation we had the day before he signed his new contract, and again this afternoon in a teleconference with the media to discuss his new deal. A day after my initial talk with Williams, Al Horford and I discussed continuity briefly while he took a break from his work with the Basketball Without Borders program.
Dating back to last summer and extending all the way through training camp this year, the Hawks (if they can come to terms with captain and All-Star Joe Johnson on an extension) will have spent millions to keep their core in place for the foreseeable future.
“I think management is making the commitment to keep us together,” Williams said Tuesday. “And each year we’ve gotten better.”
Josh Smith’s $58 million deal was the first domino, albeit an offer sheet from Memphis to the restricted free agent power forward last summer that the Hawks matched before the ink was dry on the offer sheet. That swift move was followed up this summer with deals for Mike Bibby (3-years, $18 million), Zaza Pachulia (4-years, $19 million) and Williams (5-years, $37.5 million-base). Johnson’s 4-year extension, if signed, would be in the $64 million-range.
Full disclosure, math was never my strongest subject in school. But that’s a lot of cash spent, rightfully, on the heart, soul and guts of your team. Any team dreaming of winning big at the NBA level has to invest in its core or risk vanishing into the ether.
When Hawks center Al Horord talks,in English or Spanish, people tend to listen.
What the Hawks have done is neither groundbreaking nor extraordinary in the world of professional sports. But for a franchise mired in a malaise of mediocrity for the better part of a decade prior to the last 13 months, it’s a pretty impressive feat. ”Obviously, I think it’s pretty important to build on to what we’ve started,” Horford said during our phone conversation last week. And he would know, having played on successful teams every year of his college and professional career to date. “I’m glad Marv got his deal done, because we’re going to need all our guys back and ready to go this season.”
By no means does this excuse the Hawks from the responsibility of filling out the roster with quality players capable of supporting that core group. But it certainly helps that the core is in place right now – a nucleus with three wildly talented youngsters in Horford, Williams and Smith. That would be a heck of a core group by itself. So to have JJ, Bibby, Zaza, rookie Jeff Teague and even Jamal Crawford to add to the list makes the list that much more impressive. It’ll look even better with the addition of a name like Joe Smith, still in the works according to some well-placed sources that insist the Hawks won’t give up until someone pries Smith from their dead claws.
Will it win a championship in a league where the defending champion Los Angeles Lakers have stockpiled elite talent to go around Kobe Bryant and the Boston Celtics have assembled a star-studded army to battle the Lakers, Cleveland and Orlando for supremacy? No way. But the same can be said for solid young teams in places like Portland and Chicago as well. That’s just the reality of the situation.
What a rock-solid core does is give the Hawks a fighting chance to be relevant now and into the future. And despite cries for titles (things, mind you, that Hawks fans have never experienced) relevancy is the tangible goal that all teams must focus on before moving into championship mode.
Having witnessed my favorite team’s lone championship season of my lifetime (scroll down to the bottom, it’s there, I swear), I can sympathize with the desire to shed the middle ground for the higher ground. Having witnessed that championship season also made it painfully clear to me just how rare those occasions are, even when you have seemingly all the resources in the world at your disposal, that your squad actually cashes in on the big prize.
Would I trade 40 years of rooting for a a competitive or even upper-tier team for one title? Absolutely. But if I can get both, even if the titles only come once every 50 years, I’m not turning that down either. Back to my original point, and I apologize for swerving off course a bit but it is football season (and I smell a comeback season cooking in Ann Arbor), it all comes down to perspective for me.
Is it more important to be relevant and potentially a true player or not? I say stay relevant (given whatever constraints might be in place, and it’s no secret the Hawks have many) as long as you can. We’ve all seen the flip side and it’s ugly, real ugly.
Where the Hawks fit in the grand scheme of things depends on your perspective, as well. If being the fourth team in a three-team Eastern Conference race doesn’t strike you, that’s understandable. And they will have challenger for that fourth spot. But they certainly seems sure of themselves.
“I feel like people are obviously starting to respect our ball club,” Williams said during his teleconference. “People realize they are not going to come into Atlanta and get an easy win. I don’t think anybody in the league is doing that anymore. We’ve shown the last few years we can compete with anybody in the league. We certainly feel like we can compete with anybody in the league.”
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488 comments Add your comment
Rod from College Park
August 12th, 2009
10:10 pm
jhan,
“I was comparing last years stats. I know we’ve had this argument before but what they did their 1st years in the league mean nothing to me. Just like what position they were drafted. I’m concerned about what they are giving the Hawks now.”
That is were the problem lies. You can’t just use last years stats. Marvin was hurt a lot and Josh missed time also. A better way to judge is using career stats. They both played from the time they came into the league. That’s part of my whole argument. You are judging things from last year, I am judging from day 1.
Darrell Starks,
I agree. I would put Bibby before Marvin. More important to the team.
Doug,
You were not around when those comments were made. Last year when the Josh contract issue was going on. Maybe you were, but I don’t remember you. No he did not dunk on me, he would probably fall on his way to the hoop.
Ariose,
I honestly don’t think Marvin would have made a difference in the playoffs. In the Cleveland series we scored 72,85,82 and 74, while Cleveland scored 99, 105, 97, and 84. Not being able to put the ball in the basket was our problem, and that dumb switching on everything, along with not doubling Lebron like they did Joe, was are issue. Marvin would have had no impact. When he got hurt, it forced Woodson to use Flip more who was a much better offensive option than Marvin last year.
Big Ray
August 12th, 2009
10:27 pm
“No he did not dunk on me, he would probably fall on his way to the hoop.”
There we go with those facts again…
“You were not around when those comments were made. Last year when the Josh contract issue was going on. Maybe you were, but I don’t remember you.”
Heh. Which one is it? He was there, or you just don’t remember him? But you remember how many times Marvin fell down…I remember you posting that on the Hawks Hack blog, and getting called for your BS..that’s what I remember
Big Ray
August 12th, 2009
10:30 pm
Doug,
Good points. The first one was one I was trying to make. But Rod swears those deplorable words were uttered, and I’m waiting to see which “lunch buddy” will get the conviction, and I’m sure there is a witness or two available to testify to the crime.
But I’m not holding my breath…
Ramon
August 12th, 2009
11:22 pm
Darrell, you’re right we haven’t seen him play on that level. But some guys just gets it, and he gets it. His attitude is a total 180 degree change from what Law was when he came in. I just know he’s going to be special. And I do believe he’s going to be the best PG in that draft.
Melvin
August 12th, 2009
11:27 pm
Each time I come back to Hawks page, I’m hoping to see an article that says we signed Joe Smith. I can’t understand why the Hawks haven’t made him an offer he can’t refuse, its not like they have viable options. Oh well, there’s always tomorrow…
niremetal
August 13th, 2009
12:33 am
You were not around when those comments were made. Last year when the Josh contract issue was going on. Maybe you were, but I don’t remember you. No he did not dunk on me, he would probably fall on his way to the hoop.
Come on now, Rod. I just Googled back in time and, as I suspected, you didn’t post on here a single time last summer (unless, of course, you posted under a different name). I see two posts from you in March 2008, and then nothing until February of this year. I don’t remember you being around then, but I sure was around myself (posting as “Matt”), and I sure as heck don’t remember anyone saying Marvin was better than Josh back then.
Ken Strickland
August 13th, 2009
12:35 am
ROD FROM CP-career stats in many cases are even less reliable in judging a players worth than season stats. Josh has been a starter his entire 5yr career, while Marvin has started only 3 of his 4 yrs. That means Josh has played far more gms and mins that Marvin. Also, having been a starter 2 more yrs than Marvin, Josh has become a primary scoring option while Marvin has been a secondary scoring option. Josh gets plays called for him while Marvin doesn’t. How can you fail to see those issues as a difference maker?
You know ROD, people keep making viable and insightful points in support of Marvin abilities. Yet, you continue pushing your agenda by referencing isolated plays and incidents to sum up your perception of his overall abilities. To continue your position in the face of so much logic and common sense leads me to wonder if your problem is a low basketball IQ, or a low overall IQ, or you’re just getting off on all of the attention you’re getting, if not all of the above. I’m all for everyone presenting their opinions, but at least let them be informed opinions.
The thing that impressed me the most about Marvin is how he managed to improve his DEF, long range shooting, ballhandling, turnover ratio and overall confidence in just one off season. I’d love to see Woodson analyze the OFF strengths of Josh and Marvin then design OFF plays and options to take advantage of those strengths. Or at least allow one of his assistants do it. Phil Jackson put his ego aside and allowed one of his assistants to design the triangle OFF, which he’ll ride into a HOF coaching career. Sometimes, a HC’s greatest strength is in recognizing his weaknesses or shortcomings and relying on the strengths of his assistants.
Mystikal
August 13th, 2009
12:50 am
Hey Sekou,
I know hawks main focus now is getting Joe Smith signed (as should be), but you know who else they may be looking to fulfill the roster? You hear any word about Korolev? I think he’d be a nice edition to play behind Marv at the 3. He has good size, can shoot lights out, and is coming into his own so he’d fit right in with everyone. Not sure how he is on other side of the ball, but playing under Woody he’d have no choice but to get better defensively.
Rod from College Park
August 13th, 2009
2:14 am
Ken Strickland,
It’s similar to how you consistently make the same statements about Woodson, everytime you post. Interesting that you would throw your 2 cents in. Woodson must have dunked on you. No problems with IQ thru college, life or basketball, but hey believe what you want. It won’t stop my bills from getting paid. Plays are run for him, he just does not finish them at a high rate. He passes out of the post most of the time. Josh became a scoring option because he is more aggressive, and he is a better player(back to my original point). I choose not to live in the world of if’s, so I can’t relate to that other nonsense you are talking.
Nire,
Keep looking. Might help you with your investigative skills. See if you can find someone who uses the word clown. Good luck.
Rod from College Park
August 13th, 2009
2:24 am
Ken Strickland,
“ROD FROM CP-career stats in many cases are even less reliable in judging a players worth than season stats. Josh has been a starter his entire 5yr career, while Marvin has started only 3 of his 4 yrs.”
Josh in his first year averaged 27 minutes a game, and Marvin’s first year he averaged 24. Every other year they both averaged more than 30 minutes a game. They can be compared. Try again.
Drewscrilla
August 13th, 2009
2:50 am
This going to be our year just wait its time to shock the world again tell sund to sign Joe Smith and lets crank this season up Tell woody to get everybody on the same page and win one for the A. GO HAWKS!!!!!
Drewscrilla
August 13th, 2009
2:54 am
I am also waiting to for this page to say we sign Joe Smith or Some big.
Lets Get it.
vava74
August 13th, 2009
3:05 am
Rod,
You are nowhere near the truth. Going a bit back, ALL DEF teams are overrated measures of a player’s defensive hability: Denver improved defensively as a team without Camby – dramatically – so that should mean something for you.
You should read Charley Rosen’s columns @ foxsports in order to get a differentiated non-hyped oppinion on BBall.
As a point of order, I would like to emphasise that I am very happy with our roster, including Al @ the 5 spot.
What we really need is that J-Smoove realises that he is a role player – a 5 star one – who should concentrate on defense and rebounding. If he did that, he would average 16/18ppg, 12rpg 3apg 3bpg and 2spg easily.
Marvin should get his offensive touches: he is a better shooter, a better penetrator and gets the calls to get to the line.
J-Smoove alienates the officials with his childish behaviour and doesn’t get the calls.
As for Crawford going into the starting lineup and JJ to the SF spot, that would immediately lower our FG% and our defensive capability Would you really want to have Bibby and Jamal on your starting back court on the defensive end??
Right now we have a high FG% with Marvin on the SF spot and (when healthy) a high FG% on the SG spot with JJ.
If we inserted Jamal on the starting line up he would get too many touches and we would have difficulty distributing them effectively. Jamal is better suited as a 6th man who can be quickly removed from the lineup if he is cold (as he often is), just like Flip who had a good year on account of a mix of very good and very bad games.
Ed
August 13th, 2009
4:01 am
Well doc & ken strick just struck a nerve so I had to leap ahead and jump on board w/ the Otis Redding, Marvin Gaye, & Lou Rawls bandwagon. Just to add a few, Sam Cooke, Jackie Wilson, Eddie Floyd, Solomon Burke…wow were those the days. What made Otis so special is he wrote most of his own material. One of my favorites being “Cigarettes & Coffee…
wordsmithtom
August 13th, 2009
5:52 am
Ed, great list. Solomon still getting play on Siris’ Outlaw Country station. Their “Americana” format. Dude’s still recording. An article on “King Solomon” you’ll enjoy.
http://www.honesttune.com/content/view/1030/49/
darrell starks
August 13th, 2009
6:17 am
Who in the world is jason hart what team does he play for?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
August 13th, 2009
6:24 am
For the million time we need flip, the guy is not asking for a lot of money so why let your best player of the bench walk away for nothing its makes no sense, the same old hawks should have kept solo, and flip.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
Clyde
August 13th, 2009
7:53 am
Have we signed a center yet?
Daniel
August 13th, 2009
8:21 am
Sekou- Please help!! We need some news. I can’t take much more of Rod telling us how terrible Marvin is, and how great he is because he played ball and interacts with “entertainers” It is soooo old.
Mike is back
August 13th, 2009
8:33 am
AJ, Ditto for me too…GREAT ARTICLE!!!!
U NO THAT MAKES US SMOOVE FOLK PROUD!!!
Save for Nire. Heh heh heh
jerrywest
August 13th, 2009
9:00 am
A Knicks fanatic told me that Crawford+JJ backcourt will be unstoppable. CC can play real Point Gurard. He is the ideal player to play next to JJ and he’ll make Bibby redundant.
and I was thinking Crawford was just a much better Flip.
Doug
August 13th, 2009
9:38 am
Rod: It’s one thing to debate the relative merits of two players in a reasoned, sensible fashion. This obviously is not what you have in mind, i.e. you reference Marvin as a”clown” huh?, you constantly harp on his “falling down”, and seem utterly oblivious to ANY shortcomings of Josh, i.e. his childish, infantile reactions to officials, his total inability to develop a FUNCTIONAL outside shot, his extremely poor ball handling and decision making, etc… A person without an agenda would include those factors in any assessment and not, solely, continually, point out that he averages more blocked shots and steals. Again I pray you do not disappear when Marvin is in the 17-7 range this year…and that will be without Woody running ANYTHING for him …ever
Sautee
August 13th, 2009
9:57 am
This is for those who appreciated the soul music references:
Sweet Soul Music by Peter Guralnick.
The best ever book about the early years of this genre. I could not give it a higher recommendation. Most excellent.
Sautee
August 13th, 2009
10:01 am
Mystikal,
You said this about Korolev: “Not sure how he is on other side of the ball, but playing under Woody he’d have no choice but to get better defensively.”
So Mystikal, do you mean “better defensively” like Bibby got better when he came here?
ROFL!
Melvin
August 13th, 2009
10:12 am
Dang, no Joe Smith signing reported this morning. I will check back later.
Rod from College Park
August 13th, 2009
10:24 am
Vava74,
First let me state that you are entitled to your opinion,just like I am entitled to mine. If you don’t agree with what I post, that’s your perogative. We can agree to disagree You are not going to help me understand the game of basketball trust me. Charley Rosen won’t help me either. Now let me proceed with showing you how ignorant your post is. If you really beleive that Josh Smith is or should be a role player on this team, when he is the best defensive player, the second leading scorer, and the guy who fills up Phillips Arena, then we shouldn’t even continue to debate. You state that Marvin is a better penetrator than Josh. Not a true statement. Last year Josh played 69 games and went to the line 359 times. Marvin played 61 games and went to the line 273 times. Almost a hundred more times at the line with an 8 game difference. Neither one of them shoot techs, so why do you think the diffence is so big? Hmmmmmm. I have never argued Josh’s behavior issues. That does not matter to me. I personally hated Jordan when he barked at the refs everytime he went to the hole and did not get the call. That does not change my opinion of him as a player. Rasheed either. You state that putting Jamal in the starting lineup would lower or FG%. I can not say that at this point. I feel like another proven scorer, who might also command a double team, on the floor with Joe would open the floor up. Guys would be taking wide open shots as opposed to contested shots. That is my opinion. You state that Jamal is better suited as a 6 man, yet his most productive years in the league have been when he was a starter, so please help me understand your logic. Again most on my info is based on facts not what if’s.
Rod from College Park
August 13th, 2009
10:51 am
Doug,
Once again you are making statements with no knowledge of history. The “Clown” reference was to certain other bloggers. If you notice most of my post and addressing someone, therefore I am responding to earlier post or responding to someone who had my name in their mouth. Sensible huh. So it not sensible for me to base a players merits on what he has accomplished in the league, but I should listen to a bunch of ‘Clowns’ who continuosly base their opinions on things that have not happened. I have never hidden the fact that I don’t like Marvin’s game. If you call it an agenda, you say tomato, I say tomato. I’m not sensible to say that Josh is a better player than Marvin, but all of the stats, contracts, coaches, scouts prove otherwise. Let me give you some advise, invest in a dictionary and look up the word sensible. The statement that Woody NEVER runs plays for Marvin is untrue as well. I’ve had enough of debating with incompetence for the week. Back to lurker mode. You guys can get back to the world of what if’s and maybe’s and Hawks salary cap issues. Peace.
Daniel
August 13th, 2009
11:05 am
Sautee- that is a great book, highly reccomended. To throw another forgotten gem out there. Shuggie Otis’s Inspiration Information.
Rod- We got it. Marvin bad, Josh good. Hence Josh=60 mil, Marvin=37 mil. Josh=17, Marvin=2. Therefore Marvin is a bust.
Got anything else to actually add to the conversation?
Ken Strickland
August 13th, 2009
11:07 am
ROD FROM CP-please don’t think I’m of the opinion you have a low IQ, although I know I presented it that way. I mentioned 3 elements, (1)possible low basketball IQ, (2)possible low IQ overall and (3) seeking attention. You defended 1 & 2, but made no mention of 3, interesting. But regardless, we can agree to disagree, right?
You are very good at manipulating stats and facts to support your contentions. MWilliams was coming off UNC’s bench when Josh was playing 74 NBA gms and averaging 27.7MPG as a rookie. In Marvin’s rookie yr, he averaged 24.7MPG to Josh’s 32MPG. That’s a pretty good head start, don’t you think, and although their mins have been comparable every yr since, Josh has still gotten more MPG, and considerably more mins overall than Marvin.
You also make a habit of overlooking the roles that have been defined and assumed by the 2 players, as well as their individual talents. Josh came into the league as a rebounding shotblocking talent with limited OFF skills. Marvin came into the league as an OFF talent with little rebounding and DEF skills. Both have progressed tremendously and turned those limitations into strengths.
You made the following statement about me: “It’s simular to how you consistently make the same statements about Woodson EVERYTIME(caps mine) you post”. NOW THAT’S AN OVERSTATEMENT IF EVER I’VE HEARD ONE. BUT THAT’S JUST YOU EXAGGERATING AND SPINNING FACTS TO TRY AND SUPPORT YOUR CONTENTIONS.
You seem to think Marvin is the teams weakest link, while I think it’s Woodson. At any rate, Marvin is going to be with us for a few more yrs, while Woodson is going to be with us for at least the coming season. I’ve dealt with Woodson being our HC, although I will never stop making his distractions and shortcomings an issue as long as I feel they’re hendering the team. You have to come to grips with the fact Marvin is an intrigal part of this team, he’s going to be with us for a while and we’re not going to progress to the next level without him.
dap01
August 13th, 2009
11:17 am
SEKOU: Please help, this blog is struggling!
Daniel
August 13th, 2009
11:37 am
Hey guys, totally off topic here. But, I just got a Braves ticket plan, where you get 6 games, 5 this year and next years home opener, plus the right to buy playoff tickets for only $66. I thought it was going to be bad seats, but they are upper box, behind home plate, great view of the field and low row numbers 3-5. Man, I was blown away. Wish my Hawks tickets were like that. I spend more than that on one game.
doc
August 13th, 2009
11:47 am
ray “save the world with soul” is a lot better than “we are the world with a crappy coke in your hand”.
ken, aj, ed (glad your nerve got struck bro need to hear more from you) others in the discussion of importance in the dead zone of nba world, heh heh ….. my roots are deep in the stuff. essentially at 15 snuck into a james brown concert in jacksonville with three other white soul mates feeling very much out of place until the music began. to see him sing and play the crowd with its a mans world, still got chills. havent even begun to talk about the temptations and my favorites the four tops which a awakened too every morning when i was 16.
as far as otis … his death had me and another guy in the turnaround at school where the flag was, lowering it to half mast. we felt if it was good enough for a president 3 years earlier, then it was good enough for otis. it didnt stay that way for long but it was done, cried a bit and never heard anything better than dock of the bay. he was just moving into his own. yup nire, sam had a groove his own and a huge loss before his time as well, jerry butler, sam and dave. oh my, the list goes on.
go hawks! heh heh
Sekou Smith
August 13th, 2009
12:02 pm
I wish I could save us all from the August doldrums, but there’s nothing new going on just yet. Been trying to dig up some info on Joe Johnson but can’t get any traction right now. Phone lines have dried up. No one is returning calls. Leads me to believe that there is some serious deliberating going on about the extension.
Oberto to the Wizards was a nice roster-filling move that you wish the Hawks would have poked into a bit … but there’s no sense is worrying about things that have already happened.
Working on a loaner laptop until next week (when my new MegaMonster is ready). So you might have to deal with some glitches I’m trying to work through.
I did trade emails with Zaza the other day. He’s over with the Georgian national team training in Austria. I reminded him that no one here would forgive him if he got hurt like Gasol did working with the Spanish national team. If you’re on Twitter, feel free to give ZP the bizness there at http://twitter.com/zaza27.
Will hit y’all here and on the Twitter as soon as some news breaks.
vava74
August 13th, 2009
12:04 pm
Rod,
Obviously we are all entitled to our own oppinions. That is what makes the blog fun!
However, I still disagree: J-Smoove got to the line more because he either “gets” or “thinks he has” the green light to look for his own scoring opportunity, whilst Marvin acts within a more coherent team philosophy and does not break plays.
Furthermore, he is usually does not convert the FT’s at an acceptable rate 59% this year, 69% career.
If you look at the totals, Marvin converted 220 FT whilst J-Smoove 211 (I agree that in the playoffs he improved significantly, but just proves that his biggest problem is mental).
Hence, I think Marvin should get the green light to score more and J-Smoove should be cleaning the glass and making put backs instead of launching jump shots he cannot make or dribbling into turnover situations.
Just look at the turnover totals and averages for the two players and you will see that, with JUST the turnover differential, Josh loses the shotblocking differential he has on Marvin (I acknowledge that his bpg average dropped due to injuries).
And even if you add up the steals’ advantage, the differential in possessions for the team is almost NULL:
Josh: BPG 1,6, SPG 1,4 TO 2,33
Marvin: BPG 0,6 SPG 0,9 TO 1,15
In summary:
Josh gained 3 possessions per game with Blocks and Steals and lost 2,33 = 0,67 gain
Marvin gained 1,5 possessions per game with Blocks and Steals and lost 1,15 = 0,35 gain
Not a huge advantage.
In relation to Josh being a crowd favourite and ticket seller, I agree, but a winning team sells more tickets than a team with high flying circus acts which keep on loosing.
How many people went to the Hawks games when we did not even contend to be in playoffs and J-Smoove was smacking those rims like there was no tomorrow?
I agree that BBall is a show like any other, however, the most important element is winning and for that you need to make options which are not always popular. Look at the Pistons’ championship teams… was that entertaining from an aestetical point of view? No, but winning was.
GeeMack
August 13th, 2009
12:18 pm
Atlanta wants an NBA championship ASG. Please bring the players to ATL, so we can party down peachtree street. That would be one crazy parade. HAWKS 2010 NBA CHAMPS!
KevinA
August 13th, 2009
12:18 pm
niremetal, google pecking order.
Does jacking up 3’s and long range shots lead to better rebounding? Does the team moving to the right side of the court to provide space for the JJ iso lead to better rebounding?
Why does the front court have a much higher FG%? Could it be they shoot the ball closer to the basket? Marvin (because he drives the ball)Al and Josh should be our 1,2 and 3 option.
Rufus1
August 13th, 2009
12:28 pm
The Word Player
I think that Rod and the rest of you guys need to define what the word PLAYER means to you.
I don’t think Josh is a GOOD BASKETBALL PLAYER!!!!
He can’t DRIBBLE
He can’t SHOOT JUMP SHOTS OR FREE THROWS
Has a LOW BASKET BALL IQ
HE IS AN ATHLETE WHO PLAYS BASKETBALL..HE IS OUR BEST ATHLETE!
HE IS BE PAID, WITH THE HOPES OF TURNING INTO A GREAT BASKETBALL PLAYER!
HIS ATHLETIC ABILITY AND HUSTLE COVERS UP HIS BASKETBALL SHORTCOMINGS!
PS..He is a Great shot blocker
What everyone knows that under a different coach(Dale Brown) or system(Triangle) ROD would not have an argument about points or rebounds, be JOSH would not be the 2nd scoring option. TELL ME HOW MANY PLAYERS CAN YOU SAY CAN’T SHOOT, DRIBBLE, TURNOVER PRONE and LOW IQ, but make 10mil a year and get 30mins a night.
JOSH was lucky to get drafted by the right GM and have the right coach, because BK tried to trade for GERALD GREEN and we see his career.
KevinA
August 13th, 2009
12:35 pm
Getting fouled while driving and shooting over .500 at the FT line is still more productive than jacking up jumpers and shooting .437 or less like our back court does.
Doug
August 13th, 2009
12:39 pm
Rod: Folks are “incompetent” that don’t adhere to your cherry picking stats system of judging the worth of a player? Because some people understand that some players progress at different rates than others? Because some folks value things such as what type of teammate a player is?? Because some people can see the warts on BOTH players and not be blind to those on one and obsessed with those on the other? Again…and you have had no response…please don’t disappear when Marvin is widely recognized this year as one of the most improved players…as well as valuable secondary options in the league. Int he case of Josh…I would be happy if he could just become a shooter that did not elicit a groan from the crown whenever he hoisted up one of his missles. No one argues that Josh has an incredibly high ceiling…the question is will he ever come cls to that ceiling…will he mature in his UNDERSTANDING of the game and will he develop some facsimile of an outside shot?????
Rufus1
August 13th, 2009
12:42 pm
Kevin A
No..No it isn’T
KevinA
August 13th, 2009
12:56 pm
Rufus, Josh finishes off the fast break as well as anyone. He shoots a higher FG% than anyone on the team except AL. He is our leading shot blocker. Isn’t that basketball? How can someone that dumb be such a good player. As he gets older and his handle improves he will look smarter. If he added 500 more shot attempts (the same rate JJ shoots)maybe he would improve much faster.
Anakin Joe
August 13th, 2009
1:00 pm
KevinA, if on 100 possessions, a player is fouled and shoots 65% free throws, they will score 65. If a player makes 40% of their FGs in 100 possessions, they will score 80 points. 80>65.
Daniel
August 13th, 2009
1:03 pm
doc- no love on the Shuggie Otis call?
Daniel
August 13th, 2009
1:06 pm
Anakin Joe- I am in complete agreement with you on that last post, but you do have to factor in a value to fouls themselves. Getting the other team in foul trouble, causing defensive rotations, etc. Also, have some measurable value, which is probably best reflected in others shot %
Rufus1
August 13th, 2009
1:12 pm
KevinA
I am not a JOSH HATER!! I think his is overhyped, because he dunks. He is a great athlete and shot blocker and YES that is basketball, but he is our 2nd scoring option. I want him to be a great finisher, shot blocker, rebounder and shot 50%, but as our 4th or 5th scoring option. He has no defined offensive skill. I just think is playing the wrong role for his skill set, and the team suffer because of it.
We were last in 4th qt rebounding last year. If we are going to compete for a championship everyone needs to know their place. Josh is not a scorer.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 13th, 2009
1:24 pm
“I just think is playing the wrong role for his skill set, and the team suffer because of it. ”
Whose fault is that?
KevinA
August 13th, 2009
1:26 pm
Anakin,
That is true. And one’s, putting other teams in foul trouble, limiting the fast break opportunities for opponents, making the opposition work on defense are among other intangibles that come with getting fouled. We seem to play more aggressive on defense when we are driving and getting fouled.
KevinA
August 13th, 2009
1:28 pm
Wishing does not change anything but a Nash/Paul type PG would make Josh an all star in spite of his warts.
Daniel
August 13th, 2009
1:32 pm
just posted that same point Kevin
Mr. Phil
August 13th, 2009
1:36 pm
So have we given up on Flip Murray totally? Is that a dead issue?