The gang’s all here!
With the starting five (plus a few more) back and under contract for the foreseeable future, the Hawks have at least given themselves a fighting chance to compete with the big boys (photo courtesy of my main man and former AJC photographer Pouya Dianat).
HAWKSVILLE - If continuity means anything in the NBA these days, the Hawks have done right by their own this summer.
Marvin Williams touched on it last week during a conversation we had the day before he signed his new contract, and again this afternoon in a teleconference with the media to discuss his new deal. A day after my initial talk with Williams, Al Horford and I discussed continuity briefly while he took a break from his work with the Basketball Without Borders program.
Dating back to last summer and extending all the way through training camp this year, the Hawks (if they can come to terms with captain and All-Star Joe Johnson on an extension) will have spent millions to keep their core in place for the foreseeable future.
“I think management is making the commitment to keep us together,” Williams said Tuesday. “And each year we’ve gotten better.”
Josh Smith’s $58 million deal was the first domino, albeit an offer sheet from Memphis to the restricted free agent power forward last summer that the Hawks matched before the ink was dry on the offer sheet. That swift move was followed up this summer with deals for Mike Bibby (3-years, $18 million), Zaza Pachulia (4-years, $19 million) and Williams (5-years, $37.5 million-base). Johnson’s 4-year extension, if signed, would be in the $64 million-range.
Full disclosure, math was never my strongest subject in school. But that’s a lot of cash spent, rightfully, on the heart, soul and guts of your team. Any team dreaming of winning big at the NBA level has to invest in its core or risk vanishing into the ether.
When Hawks center Al Horord talks,in English or Spanish, people tend to listen.
What the Hawks have done is neither groundbreaking nor extraordinary in the world of professional sports. But for a franchise mired in a malaise of mediocrity for the better part of a decade prior to the last 13 months, it’s a pretty impressive feat. ”Obviously, I think it’s pretty important to build on to what we’ve started,” Horford said during our phone conversation last week. And he would know, having played on successful teams every year of his college and professional career to date. “I’m glad Marv got his deal done, because we’re going to need all our guys back and ready to go this season.”
By no means does this excuse the Hawks from the responsibility of filling out the roster with quality players capable of supporting that core group. But it certainly helps that the core is in place right now – a nucleus with three wildly talented youngsters in Horford, Williams and Smith. That would be a heck of a core group by itself. So to have JJ, Bibby, Zaza, rookie Jeff Teague and even Jamal Crawford to add to the list makes the list that much more impressive. It’ll look even better with the addition of a name like Joe Smith, still in the works according to some well-placed sources that insist the Hawks won’t give up until someone pries Smith from their dead claws.
Will it win a championship in a league where the defending champion Los Angeles Lakers have stockpiled elite talent to go around Kobe Bryant and the Boston Celtics have assembled a star-studded army to battle the Lakers, Cleveland and Orlando for supremacy? No way. But the same can be said for solid young teams in places like Portland and Chicago as well. That’s just the reality of the situation.
What a rock-solid core does is give the Hawks a fighting chance to be relevant now and into the future. And despite cries for titles (things, mind you, that Hawks fans have never experienced) relevancy is the tangible goal that all teams must focus on before moving into championship mode.
Having witnessed my favorite team’s lone championship season of my lifetime (scroll down to the bottom, it’s there, I swear), I can sympathize with the desire to shed the middle ground for the higher ground. Having witnessed that championship season also made it painfully clear to me just how rare those occasions are, even when you have seemingly all the resources in the world at your disposal, that your squad actually cashes in on the big prize.
Would I trade 40 years of rooting for a a competitive or even upper-tier team for one title? Absolutely. But if I can get both, even if the titles only come once every 50 years, I’m not turning that down either. Back to my original point, and I apologize for swerving off course a bit but it is football season (and I smell a comeback season cooking in Ann Arbor), it all comes down to perspective for me.
Is it more important to be relevant and potentially a true player or not? I say stay relevant (given whatever constraints might be in place, and it’s no secret the Hawks have many) as long as you can. We’ve all seen the flip side and it’s ugly, real ugly.
Where the Hawks fit in the grand scheme of things depends on your perspective, as well. If being the fourth team in a three-team Eastern Conference race doesn’t strike you, that’s understandable. And they will have challenger for that fourth spot. But they certainly seems sure of themselves.
“I feel like people are obviously starting to respect our ball club,” Williams said during his teleconference. “People realize they are not going to come into Atlanta and get an easy win. I don’t think anybody in the league is doing that anymore. We’ve shown the last few years we can compete with anybody in the league. We certainly feel like we can compete with anybody in the league.”
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488 comments Add your comment
Ariose
August 11th, 2009
7:01 pm
JM, Beleive me when I tell you it was MY PLEASURE LOL!!!!
Nire, Great Find!!!
Stating the Obvious
August 11th, 2009
7:02 pm
And Ray and Sautee and the guys on Peachtree Hoops and Lang Whitaker all have said that Marvin became the Hawks’ best perimeter defender this year. I guess none of them watch the games either, huh?
Idiot.
Rod from College Park
August 11th, 2009
7:04 pm
Ken Strickland,
“Marvin has developed into an excellent defender and his DEF versatility is definitely an asset. If I had to determine the best defensive player, I’d chose AHorford. He’s more physical and a better on the ball defender than JSmith, or any other player on our team, and is our best defender when going up against bigger, taller and stronger players. He’s also our 2nd best shotblocker behind JSmith. That type of versatility makes him the best candidate for the teams best defensive player.”
Marvin is by no means an excellent defender. Not sure about Horford being the best but I can understand your point. I would say that if you moved Horford to his natural 4 position, he would not be a better defender at that position than Josh. Regarless of your like or dislike of Josh, to discredit his defensive ability for his career not one year is really disrespectful. He has been first or second on our team over the last 3 years in steals and 1st in blocks. Not Marvin. Not Al, Not Joe. I guess the stats don’t matter though huh. I know the response. He gets all his blocks off of help defense. I wonder who it is he is helping? I would guess that they were mostly wing guys and point guards penetrating. Who is checking those guys?
Stating the Obvious
August 11th, 2009
7:05 pm
Powe to the Cavs. No excuse if the Hawks don’t sign Joe Smith now.
Stating the Obvious
August 11th, 2009
7:09 pm
Well, Rod at least you’re not alone in your opinion of Marvin’s defense. You always have Sam and the other voices in your head to agree with you. Or do they disagree with you sometimes? I’ve always wondered about that with the schizos.
Rod from College Park
August 11th, 2009
7:14 pm
Stating the Obvious,
Thanks for making my point for me dummy!!!!!!! I’m sure your brilliant head coach Woodson would be smart enough to put his best perimeter defenders on the other teams best player at the end of the game. Wonder why JJ forced him to Josh’s side? Hmmm…….. Wonder why our best perimeter defender Marvin was not guarding him? Ignorance is bliss.
Ariose
August 11th, 2009
7:16 pm
Vintage JJ baby!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTqCItzl25Q
KevinA
August 11th, 2009
7:18 pm
jhan, from the last post.
It would be crazy to give Crawford $15M/year but not JJ.
I’m all for giving our frontcourt more touches but we can’t run our offense through them.
Our established scorers are all backcourt players – like it or not.
I would not sign JJ this year for more than Josh gets. I think Josh will have a better year. If Crawford stays I would assume JJ is gone. If the back court continues to high volume attack I think you will see Woody gone. Time for change.
Ariose
August 11th, 2009
7:19 pm
I know he’s defenetly a better player now than he was in that Video, but I wish he still attacked as quickly as he did back then. No doubt, that’s the Woodson Effect on him now….
Mystikal
August 11th, 2009
7:20 pm
If marvin really did work on his ball handling that would mean so much. Having 3 players on the floor at all time that can handle the ball really helps on offense. Combine that with getting the ball to Horford (hoping it happens) who is a great passer and the offense could be so much better. Like many have said though, we will see if Woodson has learned anything and actually makes the adjustments.
Rod from College Park
August 11th, 2009
7:20 pm
Stating The Obvious,
“And Ray and Sautee and the guys on Peachtree Hoops and Lang Whitaker all have said that Marvin became the Hawks’ best perimeter defender this year. I guess none of them watch the games either, huh?”
Peachtree Hoops huh? I guess the Peachtree Hoops guys are the authorities huh. LOL How about asking someone in the league, or coaches. How about asking Woodson what he thinks?
niremetal
August 11th, 2009
7:25 pm
Great story by Sekou today on Al. Nice to see him picking up Dikembe and Smitty’s mantle of giving back.
Anakin Joe
August 11th, 2009
7:25 pm
nire, I wonder if someone told Marvin who to work with to improve his ball-handling.
Ken, stop spoon-feeding these men. They are not YMCA players, they are grown men.
Sautee, I fully admit this team has warts. But so does every other team. And I think that you are one of the few who probably can honestly say, that if we collectively spent as much time with any team (including Boston, Orlando, Denver, Cleveland, etc.) that we would likely find many, many, many frustrating problems with their coach and/or players. Remember all of those “Woody needs to hire an OC like Mike Brown” comments? And what happened in the Cavs-Orlando series? Cavs became a one-man gang with an offense that was easily defended and ultimately failed (Mo Williams is still walking around Cleveland looking for his jumper).
At best, folk can say that Woody missed on one talent (Diaw). So far, no one else who lived in his doghouse has returned to deliver the mythical “I told you so”. Folk admonish him for being a “control freak”, yet they turn around and say that he allows players the freedom to make mistakes. Huh? I’ve read Smith complemented for figuring out how to be the team’s 2nd leader scorer but then someone says that the team doesn’t look for him enough. Is this guy ready to score 25 points a game for a playoff team?
Here’s what I think. I think Woody treats these guys like grown men and expects them to step up like grown men. If Marvin works on his 3-point shooting, then guess what, he will have the freedom to spot up behind the 3-point line throughout the game. If Childress wants to probe the defense for openings on the baseline, go for it. If Flip (who had one of his very best seasons) wants to take his man to the rim, have fun abusing that opposing guard.
What he doesn’t do well is conduct “trial and error” studies during the game. I think he expects his assistants to coach the individual development and likely expects the players to push themselves in the off-season. I’m guessing that there was very little “player development” when WOody was playing. He’s old school. And I think players who have it together (like Horford) are rewarded and find their way in his system. Guys who need stroking (Salim & Diaw) probably dread every moment with Woody. I remember the quote when Bibby joined, something like “I’ll let him run it”. I remember the quote from Bibby’s agent a month ago “Woody allows Bibby to be a coach on the floor”. I remember his genuine delight when Bibby went off on him during the playoffs. Woody wants guys to step up and take it. But he won’t give it to them. He wants them to earn it. Like a man. No Babies Allowed. I always thought that Woody was an AWFUL hire for a young team. But take a look, we’re not that young anymore. 2 players on this team are still on their rookie contracts. Horford is mature being his years and we’ll see about Teague.
Lastly, if Woody clicked on each and every cylinder, I don’t think that we have enough cylinders to catch Boston, Orlando nor Cleveland. So I’m more apt to give him a pass when an i is left undotted because when all is said and done “we are who we are”… the best of the rest.
A Tribe Called Quest
August 11th, 2009
7:28 pm
WHY ARE WE LETTING EVERY BIG GO?
JOE SMITH ISN’T KEVIN GARNETT. WE CAN LOOK AT OTHER PLAYERS TOO. WHY COULDNT WE SIGN OBERTO?
JESUS
Traceman
August 11th, 2009
7:28 pm
Rod, Josh is a tremendous shotblocker but he is only average AT BEST as a man defender which is why despite his tremendous shotblocking ability, he gets very few votes for the All-Defense team. He can make spectacular plays OCCASIONALLY when guarding guys on the perimeter by blocking their shots from behind after they get by him but if you think that is great D you are mistaken. Both Marvin and JJ are FAR better at staying in front of their men on D than Smoove is.
When Smoove first came into the league, he was quick enough to guard SFs but in case you haven’t noticed, he has gained a significant amount of weight over the last two seasons. He is growing into a man and as he gets bigger and stronger, he is going to be even less successful trying to guard guys on the perimeter. Smoove is a PF who can play SOME SF but he would struggle to guard most good SFs for an entire game.
All that said, Smoove has a greater impact on the TEAM’S defensive success than any other player on the roster because of his shotblocking ability. He is NOT the team’s best MAN defender but he is the team’s MOST IMPORTANT defender.
Anakin Joe
August 11th, 2009
7:30 pm
nire, I was thinking that too. That the Hawks have a rich history of “guys who care”. We’ve had some jerks along the way but it feels like we’ve had some of the best character guys of any team in the league. I’m probably being a “homer” about that. SAR was a great community guy too. And JT. A bunch. And that’s way cool!
A Tribe Called Quest
August 11th, 2009
7:30 pm
WHY ARE ALL THE STARTERS EXCEPT BIBBY THE EXACT SAME HEIGHT IN THE PICTURE?
Sautee
August 11th, 2009
7:31 pm
STO,
Please don’t put words in my mouth. I have never stated that Marvin was our best perimeter defender, though I DID say he was the most improved on defense. His increased effort on D is what I praised him for.
IMHO, our two best perimeter defenders (by far) got traded to G.S. Not that they ever got to defend.
Odd that they played for a supposedly “defensive” coach and yet had lots of dnp-cds, eh?
niremetal
August 11th, 2009
7:34 pm
Tribe,
Lots of teams do that for team publicity photos – take angles and space people to make everyone look roughly the same height. That’s also why Bibby only looks 3-4 inches shorter instead of the 6-8 inches shorter that he actually is…
Sautee
August 11th, 2009
7:34 pm
ATCQ,
Is Jesus even available? He’d be a good signing! You KNOW he’s tough if he died on a cross.
Sorry Ramon, I couldn’t help myself.
niremetal
August 11th, 2009
7:36 pm
Notice how the angle of the photo is slightly tilted upward, Bibby is standing at least a couple feet in front of everyone, Josh is standing in front of Al, JJ is standing in front of Marvin, Marvin and Al both have wider stances than everyone else, etc.
niremetal
August 11th, 2009
7:37 pm
Can you tell I took a photography class in college?
niremetal
August 11th, 2009
7:39 pm
Co-sign Traceman. Best description of Josh’s defensive impact that I’ve seen around here.
Ariose
August 11th, 2009
7:40 pm
1) Mikki More Sucks
2) Stromile Swift Sucks
3) Al Horford has been the best defeder on this team since the day he got drafted. Joe is solid, and Josh has A LOT of work to do….his help defense is pretty solid though.
3) Koroloev, Carney, Siler and no one else….Maybe Flip or Gerald Green…you just never know
4) Joe Smith come home baby!!!!! WE NEED YOU!!!!!!
Rod, I never said Klezia INSTEAD of Marvin. I meant Kleazia BACKING UP Marvin. Marvin is better. Marvin is better. Marvin is better. Marvin is better. Marvin is better. Marvin is better. Marvin is better. Marvin is better. Marvin is better. Marvin is better. Marvin is better. Marvin is better. Marvin is better. Marvin is better. Marvin is better. Marvin is better. Marvin is better. Marvin is better. Marvin is better. Marvin is better.
Please everyone, Stop the Madness….
~This has been a NO BITCHASSNESS prduction~
Ariose
August 11th, 2009
7:41 pm
Somebody give nire a cookie
Ramon
August 11th, 2009
7:54 pm
I won’t lie to you guys. If I was Joe Smith, I would sign with Denver.
Ariose
August 11th, 2009
7:55 pm
AJ, I agree. We’ve had some of the best charater guys in the leauge.
LMAO@ Sautee
Ramon, Exellent post from earlier
Rod, the Last time Josh had to Guard Vice Carter, he shot a Game Winning three right in his face….Josh couldn’t play vince tight bec ausehe dosent have the Lateral quickness to stay with smaller guys like that. If he had, Mr. Carter surely would have taken it to the rack.
Rod from College Park
August 11th, 2009
8:02 pm
Traceman,
I totally disagree. I guess steals don’t mean anything either.
I think the stats will speak for themselves. No comparison.
Josh (5 seasons)
897 blocks and 441 steals
Marvin (4 seasons)
126 blocks 238 steals
Rod from College Park
August 11th, 2009
8:05 pm
Being able to recover is part of being a good defensive player in football and basketball beleive it or not.
Ariose
August 11th, 2009
8:06 pm
Ramon,
Nene, Birdman, Kenyon Martin, and Ronoldo Baklman….OK I see your point lol. BUT, The Nuggets won’t get past the Flakers. Also Denver has shown over the last two years that they want no part of the Luxury Tax, by Dumping Camby and Letting Klezia go overseas.
Besides, It’s Hotlanta!!! Joe will make the right decision
If he had a Twitter account, Nire and I would have had him signed weeks ago hehehe!!!
Rod from College Park
August 11th, 2009
8:07 pm
Ariose,
Why was our best perimeter defender Marvin not checking him? Hmmmmm. Boy this Woodson must really not know what he is doing. LOL
Ariose
August 11th, 2009
8:10 pm
Rod, they play two different positions. There arent that may SF’s who are prolific shot-blockers. It’s usually big men…..like….OH YEAH JOSH SMITH!!!!
Marvin is not a Big…
Ariose
August 11th, 2009
8:12 pm
Rod, Probably because of the “out of bounds” play by the Nets and the scramble afterward. Josh just happend to be near vince so he had to defend him at that point.
Ariose
August 11th, 2009
8:16 pm
Check the Vid…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQN-dNC3UNk
niremetal
August 11th, 2009
8:20 pm
Marvin gets assigned to cover the inbounder a lot on those plays because 1) his length is bothersome and 2) he won’t take the risk of leaving his man. That’s the reason that Phil Jackson almost always had Pippen guard the inbounding player despite the fact that Pippen was the Bulls’ most versatile defender.
Sam from da Swats
August 11th, 2009
8:21 pm
Stating the Obvious that you don’t have cable, because obviously you couldn’t have watched or been to Phillips Arena to see that Marvin is an average defender compared to Josh. I just think you guys must be getting paid by Marvin to keep defending him. This guy is not that good and he is not worth $1 million a year let alone $7.5…..
niremetal
August 11th, 2009
8:28 pm
That clip shows a reason why Marvin gets assigned to the inbounder – he deflected the inbounds pass.
Here’s a clip of Reggie’s famous shot. I don’t think that Phil put Pippen on McKie and Harper on Reggie because he was more scared of Derek McKey than he was of Reggie or because he thought Ron Harper was a better defender than Pip…
niremetal
August 11th, 2009
8:28 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr9ldg2jL3Q&fmt=18
Samuel
August 11th, 2009
8:36 pm
AJ,
You’re On.
Let’s make no mistake about it. Josh Smith is our best defender when “he” wants to be. Hands down. He is the only player we got who can dominate the game from a defensive stand point.
I’m not one to base defensive ability solely on blocks but when Josh is zoned in on defense, there’s not a better defender in the league. Not only does he block shots but he has guys looking around to see where he’s at, which is very valuable and doesn’t show up in the box scores. Just ask KG and company from a couple of years ago.
Like what Shaq said about the TD comparison. TD may be better all around but he is “most dominate”. Josh falls into that category. I would say that JJ is our best all-around defender, followed by Al and marvin but Josh is definately most dominate.
Sam from da Swats
August 11th, 2009
8:39 pm
Niremetal, WTF does that have to do with anything. Jordan is on the best player, why? Because the NBA’s Jordan probably only had 2 fouls the whole game and had license to chop the sh#t out of somebody with no foul call at will. I don’t know what point you’re trying to prove, but if that’s our Atlanta team, that would be Joe or Josh chasing Reggie.
Ariose
August 11th, 2009
8:41 pm
Nire, nice Clip!
Samuel
August 11th, 2009
8:44 pm
Nire,
I can’t totally agree with you on that. Pippen got all the pub for being the best defender but Ron Harper was probably the most underrated defensive player ever. Most people only got a chance to see Harper post-knee injury days.
I got to see him in his prime on a nightly basis when I lived in SoCal from 87-90. The man was a straight up beast. OMG the Clippers and the Lakers use to hang up something serious. Harper was the only man I have ever seen put “absolute locks” on Jordan. No Shi_. A defensive Beast.
Sam from da Swats
August 11th, 2009
8:44 pm
Now notice, who is on the best player on the floor? Joe, who ends up with the game winning block? I’ll let you answer that……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLsHMb-tnNI
The Truth
August 11th, 2009
8:46 pm
As I read Sekou article entitled “Horford spends time teaching basketball to youth abroad”, I can’t help but notice how thin Al looks. Even in the above picture in this blog, Al is about equal in height to all four in the background (being just a bit taller then JJ) but with a thinner frame than all four players. Even JJ looks thicker then Al. I know BK would be proud to know his design of all 6-8/6-9 players is still in place and hailed as the core future. If Al expects to regularly dance with the likes of Shaq, Howard other Bigs, he better hit the weight room fast for conditioning. I don’t know what his weight is these days but he will be injury prone if he doesn’t get stronger. When we subconsciously scream for more bigs, this is the reason why.
Sam from da Swats
August 11th, 2009
8:48 pm
THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE, WATCH JOSH RUN PAST MARVIN FOR THE BLOCK…….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygZBFbVqtxg&feature=related
Hoops
August 11th, 2009
8:57 pm
Ramon,
Joe Smith will sign with ATL now that the Cavs have signed Powe. I don’t blame him for holding out to see if he could return to the Cavs. What does Denver have to offer that the Hawks don’t?
It’s just my opinion, but I think Joe S. will sign with the Hawks soon! Why not? The Hawks are a playoff team on the way up! Then we will wait until training camp to fill out the rest of the roster.
Anakin Joe
August 11th, 2009
8:59 pm
Samuel, I always thought about the Harper to Jordan relationship like Marques Johnson to Dr. J. You have to be old school to understand that. But both Harper and Marques were a half-a-hair below their more publicized contemporary. At least until injuries set in. Kind of like Donny Hathaway to Marvin Gaye.
rusty
August 11th, 2009
9:03 pm
i didnt think that the hawks have a really good defensive player certainly not marvin or joe. we are
a lousy defensive with woodys lousy switching defense. i just hope to hell that woodson makes joe
to stop ball hogging & gets some ball movement in
our offense. i still think that we need to make a trade of joe for a big man. crawford is here. does any one here think alook these lines
Mike
August 11th, 2009
9:14 pm
We should not have to worry about Denver going after Joe Smith. They are trying to re-sign Anthony Carter and sign a wing player to replace Kleiza and Dantay Jones…rumor is possibly Wally Szerbiak.
Hopefully Joe realizes he will have a very good situation in the ATL
Sam from da Swats
August 11th, 2009
9:20 pm
Rusty, no we don’t need to trade Joe. The only big that is worthy of a Joe trade is Dwight Howard and Orlando is not doing that.