A closer look

The Hawks' pursuit of veteran big man Joe Smith will not end until he signs with them ... or someone else.

The Hawks' pursuit of veteran big man Joe Smith (left) won't end until he signs with them ... or someone else.

HAWKSVILLE - We’re going to start today’s journey with the answer to the most asked questions surrounding the Hawks these days.

Until you read, see or hear of veteran power forward Joe Smith signing elsewhere, the Hawks still have a shot at landing the free agent big man.

That’s truly the best (and only real) hope available on that front. 

I certainly think it helps the Hawks’ cause that they’ve already completed negotiations and come terms with all of their in-house free agents, in case you missed it Marvin Williams was the latest late last week. Because now they can focus all of their attention on filling out the frontcourt rotation with the necessary extra bodies needed as they head into training camp.

As I detailed Sunday, the Hawks plan to take a closer look at several big men over the next few weeks to see who might fit best. It’s a wise move, what with the pickings being as slim as they are this late in the summer. Garret Siler and Jason Collins are surely large enough for the job but I’m not sure that either one of them soothes any fears about the Hawks’ lack of quality depth up front. Johan Petro, Stromile Swift and Loren Woods (another name I’ve heard is on the Hawks’ radar) don’t help me sleep any better either.

Maybe, as some of his staunch supporters have been suggesting to me repeatedly the past year, Randolph Morris deserves a shot to prove he’s the guy the Hawks need. He is under contract already. And he has shed weight better and faster than the dude from the Subway ads. One scout in attendance at Tim Grgurich’s recent camp in Las Vegas reported that he was impressed with Randmo’s quick feet and shooting touch – “I didnt’ think he could play until I watched him work in that environment,” my scout friend wrote in an email over the weekend. “He’s got a chance if he can get on the floor.”

Maybe this is the year, the final year of his two-year deal, that Morris shoves his way into Mike Woodson’s rotation … or maybe not. But with their options for a big man dwindling, I can’t see where it hurts to give Morris a chance. The Hawks have actually had some success with players like Morris, lightly-regarded players that turn into contributors (Mario West and Othello Hunter come to mind as recent undrafted rookies that made favorable impressions).

Hunter strikes me as another player capable of fitting into the mix for the Hawks come training camp. He’s probably a bit undersized, but since when has that ever stopped the Hawks from throwing a guy out thee (Al Horford and Josh Smith are always accused of the same crime of impersonating “true” big men). The reviews on his performance in the Hawks’ rookie/free-agent mini-camp last summer were surprisingly mixed. I thought he was fantastic. He definitely stood out to me. But several people who were also there suggested that they weren’t moved much by his showing. It’s always subjective.

ONE LAST THING, regarding another Joe (as in Johnson). I’ll admit to being perplexed at all the rancor over whether or not it’s prudent to explore contract extension talks with JJ’s camp. Why wouldn’t the Hawks want to lock up their best player for at least four more years (and that’s all the Hawks can offer since Johnson has a year remaining on his current deal, per league rules)?

A four-year deal in the $62-$64 million neighborhood (that’s an extension from what he makes now with the proper annual raises) makes plenty of sense to me. The question is how much sense does it make to JJ’s camp as they weigh the millions you can touch now with the potential millions that might (or might not) be available next summer, when he’d be an unrestricted free agent?

I know some of you are vehemently (I love that word) opposed to the idea of “4 More Years” with Joe in office. I just don’t understand why. We’re talking about a three-time All-Star that would still be in his NBA prime at the end of the deal. And if the fears of a potential lockout two years from now are realized, I’d much rather have the core of my team locked up going into the summer of 2011 as opposed to fishing around for players with so much uncertainty surrounding the league.

Just some thought to kick of the week.

222 comments Add your comment

doc

August 10th, 2009
9:36 am

yeah the jj camp needs to look at how much of an ego they have or are they team players. he risks a lot if he is exposed further physically to the rest of the league if he falters again midseason or is again as inefficient a scorer as he was this last season as he listlessly performed at times. other star power guys but not real stars have fallen through the cracks either because of injury or ego and never came close to making the money they once did. occasionallly those types of guys lose homes or yachts.

it certainly makes sense for the hawks to bring jj back around his present salary. i just dont think it makes sense to back up the truck with money at his front door step. that is not the m o of the BASG so i dont really fear that ether. sign him up at 4 and 58. that keeps him as head dog salary wise and allows some flexibility in getting al on board when his time comes.

Kenbud

August 10th, 2009
9:38 am

Until Mike Woodson’s learns to TRUST his bench players, it’s not going to happen. His coaching proves that he does nothing but drive up the minutes for his starting 5 and possible 1 or 2 off the bench. I agree to that Randolph Morris deserves more minutes, especially is he’s worked to improve his body, footwork and game. But Woodson has proven stingy with minutes off the bench. That’s a fact.

And bring on Joe Smith!! I’d actually like Jason Collins for a body and 6 fouls a game. Don’t need for more than that and decent defense.

Hawk Str8Talk

August 10th, 2009
9:57 am

I think the concern isn’t about locking up Joe Johnson more than its the belief that spending that money on a true superstart without the mileage that Woodson is heaping upon Johnson that’s the concern. Or at least that’s my sense. If it jeopardizes signing Al or another player that significantly improves the talent base, then that’s the issue. This mix as constituted is still not primed for a deep playoff run and to lock up a mix that we’re not sure will get better isn’t a model for championship success. Until the front office shows that it knows what to do with pieces that might not fit for a playoff run, locking up JJ at that price might not be prudent. Having JJ as our second best player should be the goal..as our best player, not so much.

Hoops

August 10th, 2009
9:59 am

Good article Sekou! Woodson needs to use a 10 player rotation during the season. Keep these guys fresh. It’s a 82 game schedule before the playoffs begin! Sign Joe Johnson up @ 15M per and sign Joe Smith up and let’s get ready! Why not give Morris a shot? Let’s find out if he can help!

Daniel

August 10th, 2009
10:11 am

Thanks for the updates Sekou.
Kenbud- what have you seen out of Randolph Morris that suggests that he “deserves more minutes”? You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. He is a marginal (at best) NBA bench warmer, whose only upsides are that a)he is already under contract b) that he lost weight (five years into his career) c) well, he is better than nothing. So clearly Mike Woodson, head coach, must play this “deserving” player more minutes, because that will make him better?
Stop it already!!!
Getting minutes comes with more production, talent and ability.

Daniel

August 10th, 2009
10:12 am

oh, Hoops if it were only that easy.
I am with you though.

Daniel

August 10th, 2009
10:16 am

Also, Kenbud- I don’t think that Sekou ever said that Morris “deserves” more minues.

Daniel

August 10th, 2009
10:18 am

he said that maybe, as some suggested, he deserves a chance at a roster spot.

RealSquawk

August 10th, 2009
10:28 am

JOe should sign simply because the hawks have fulfilled all of his wishes. And I like the size and cost of the contract.

I don’t think that Rick Sund would do anything to derail the signing of Al Horford.

Mike is back

August 10th, 2009
10:32 am

Sekou, I think it would be great to get JJ resigned…however, I would much prefer for Sund to focus all his attention on Bigs at this point. I think the reality for 2010 FAs is very uncertain I can’t imagine why a guy would want to pass up on the opportunity to lock down a guarantee contract knowing that the Cap is likely to be reduced for the next couple of years.

These guys looking for these huge contracts in 2010 will likely have to resign with their perspective teams. I think JJ camp is aware of that. As I stated previously if we can resign JJ now…then do it…other than that…focus on signing some beef.

People have scoff at the ideas of Stromile Swift because of his size…but save for maybe Johan Petro he is the only guy I would consider in that group…at lease he is a shot blocker.

**PS please say no to Jason Collins…he is soft as powder!!!!!!!!!

Alp

August 10th, 2009
10:38 am

Any word on Flip? Did he sign somewhere else? what is the scoop on him? He is a Fan Favourite!

Big Ray

August 10th, 2009
11:00 am

From last blog:

Astro Joe ,

Excellent point about our offense being better during the regular season, then falling apart in the playoffs and going right back to Joe. The $64,000 question (if you’re playing “The Weakest link” or some other similar gameshow) is “why?”

In the face of adversity or simply tougher-than-normal conditions, people tend to “rise to the occasion” less, and are “reduced to their level of training” more. Of course, that usually leads to another round of our usual blame game around here, but that can’t be helped. : )

OH, and you know Woody is just not that short-winded when he’s asked a question. Unless he’s being interviewed by Jeff Schultz….

By the way, I think you should make “ATTACK THE RIM” your tag line. Snazzy. Hip. Dope. Or however it’s said these days. I like it.

Sam From the Swats ,

I agree that Josh gets a lot of flack, more than the guys drafted ahead of him. At the same time, Joe is right. It’s less about draft position by now, and more about showing what they are truly capable of. Marvin is no game changer. Josh is. That doesn’t mean Marvin’s no good. But it does mean that more is expected out of Josh, who is clearly capable at this point of having a much more dynamic effect on any given game, on any given night.

By the way, unless you’ve talked to every single GM and/or front office personnel of every team, you can’t possibly know that no teams were interested in Marvin. Just because it wasn’t reported doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Front office personnel are on the phone with each other all year long. If all the phone calls and conversations were leaked to various media outlets, the deluge of rumors would saturate and permeate everything. We wouldn’t even know who made the playoffs for trying to keep up with the rumors…..

Show me state

August 10th, 2009
11:02 am

Let’s go Hawks!!!!!

niremetal

August 10th, 2009
11:05 am

Mike is Back,

What on earth are you talking about, saying that Jason Collins is soft? Pretty much the only good thing about Jason Collins is his toughness. He is very physical on both ends – kinda like Jeff Foster or Zaza but without an offensive game. He sets picks better than almost any big man in the league, which alone is enough to make him worth a look because no Hawk outside Bibby usually even looks to set a screen. Maybe you’re thinking of Jarron, who is much less physical than his brother.

Big Ray

August 10th, 2009
11:12 am

Daniel,

You’re right. Minutes come with production, talent, and ability. I think Morris has ability and talent on the offensive end. Always has. The defensive end is the issue for me. One more thing- how does one produce without getting the minutes to do so?

roan st

August 10th, 2009
11:19 am

Randmo loses weight huh? Last year of his deal and with his NBA future uncertain he finally tries to step it up? If he does have a good season and signs a long term deal he seems like the type that would lay down on us. I just don’t care for these contract year type players because when they get their guaranteed money they go back to being fat and lazy.

Sekou, what do you think about siler being given a chance of making the squad as a developmental type player? Woody doesn’t play the last couple guys at the end of the bench anyway so we might as well have a guy who has showed some potential on the squad instead of just a warm body.

Daniel

August 10th, 2009
11:21 am

Big Ray- by showing in practice and training camp, and when you do get minutes not making an absolutely a** of yourself. Let’s face it RandMo is horrible, always has been, always will be, this is not 2000 AAU ball. Time to move on like every other team in the NBA.

Mike is back

August 10th, 2009
11:23 am

Nire, give me a break…we are talking Jason Collins…geese…I guess that’s why he’s in the bottom feeder group. Maybe I missed something…but wasn’t he available when Indy signed Solo…what about Hollins…again I’ll pass.

Daniel

August 10th, 2009
11:25 am

By your reasoning Big Ray. I am actually the best basketball player in the NBA, but because no team, coach or GM would give me the chance to play 40 minutes a night you will never no it. Speedy Claxton is the best point guard in the NBA. Salim Stoudemire is the next Vinnie Johnson. They just keep getting held down by the “man” Bad is bad and the ONLY reason that Morris is even a topic is because he is already under contract and we DESPERATELY need bodies. If he were a free agent would you be asking for us to go get him and Woody to give him minutes to produce?

Big Ray

August 10th, 2009
11:26 am

Niremetal,

I agree. Collins is a fairly tough cookie.

Daniel,

Another thought on Morris. I don’t know how much Woody values a big man who can score. I really don’t. Based on how much his offense involved “true big men” (I’m thinking Horford, not Josh), I’d say the value isn’t very high, though in my opinion, it should be higher and should be evidenced on the court. So for Morris to get more minutes, I think he’s going to need the following things to occur:

1)He has to prove in practice that he is dedicated to defending effectively. That means holding his ground in the paint, instead of getting pushed around easily. It also means he has to defend without getting into frequent and unnecessary foul trouble. That was John Edwards’ issue.

2) He has to show that he’s dedicated to getting rebounds. On BOTH ends of the court. Defensive rebounds generally equate to what big men are supposed to be doing in the first place. No special praise awarded for this. However, we all know the value of an offensive rebound.

3) He has to score whenever the opportunity presents itself. That’s not to say that he can’t ever miss a shot. But he needs to convert when a teammate passes to him because he’s open (and the teammate isn’t) and within his scoring range. It also means he needs to show that he can score in one-on-one situations. To do this, he has to know and be able to pick his spots on the floor, and be able to get to them consistently. Showing you can finish when you’re set up, and score on an opponent when defended one-on-one engenders confidence in your teammates, particularly the veteran teammates (translation: the guards, who are ALWAYS going to have the ball, particularly in Woody’s offense). When you gain their confidence, you gain Woody’s confidence. ‘Nuff said.

That is just one reason why certain guys just couldn’t get it going with this team. And while I lay some things at Woody’s feet, the fact is that there are things that EVERY team and EVERY coach should and do expect.

Guys like Solo could get rebounds and convert shots here and there. But when you’re open, you need to be converting EVERY TIME. When you don’t, guys want to pass you the ball less, ESPECIALLY if you’ve got a defender on you. And defenses aren’t stupid forever. If you show you can’t score, they’ll sag off you and stay with guys like JJ. If you fit that category, you better be able to make up for it on the other end. That’s one of the scant few reasons why Mario West has been able to stick to the roster for as long as he has. Can’t be relied upon on the offensive end, but he’s murder on the defensive end.

Morris has his work cut out for him. It starts in practice. After that….well, that’s on Woody. He decides who plays, who doesn’t, and for how long.

macaroni tony

August 10th, 2009
11:26 am

I think that Sund is going to force Woody to play RandMo. This may be his thought patterns.

O'Brien

August 10th, 2009
11:32 am

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isnt Jason Collins a C? Even if we sign him, we still need a backup PF.

Ray,

I agree. Coming out of timeouts and during crunchtimes, good teams have plays that they run. What do the Hawks do during crunch time? Give the ball to JJ and get out of the way. (It would help if JJ would not pound the ball for 18 seconds).

But the only plays Woody has is the lob to Josh (from Bibby), iso JJ, and the JJ/Bibby 2 man game. I hope Woody comes up with more plays this year.

Big Baby is rumored to be going back to Boston on a 2 year deal, and they already have KG, Perkins, and Rasheed. Orlando has Howard, Gortat, Bass and Ryan Anderson. Cavs have Shaq, Big Z and Varejao.

We just dont have the big bodies to compete with those guys, and since Woody/Bibby refuses to play uptempo, we will be outmuscled/outrebounded.

Big Ray

August 10th, 2009
11:33 am

Daniel,

By WHAT reasoning? I asked a rhetorical question! Never once did I say that Morris deserved minutes, nor did I say we should go and get him. Damn man, read my posts. I know what the problems were with the other guys, I am anything BUT stupid. Claxton got no burn because his azz couldn’t stay healthy. Salim had issues with Woody, did not prove to be a reliable ball handler or scorer, and did not play effective defense. I didn’t say JACK about anybody being held down by “the man”, nor did I suggest, allude, or insinuate the idea. Read my 11:26 post.

Agree, disagree, whichever, but don’t put words in my mouth.

And the next post is really gonna draw some heat, from a bunch of people. But what the hell….I ain’t scared…..

Truth-Serum

August 10th, 2009
11:33 am

How about pursuing a real center instead of futility? How many power forward masquerading as centers do we need. We have the most non athletic,slowest turnover prone center in basketball in jon koncak…I mean ZAZA top this turnover Pachulia. I heard that his vertical leap is now at 3 inches.
How about getting a legitimate center and roll Hortford as back up to josh and the new center. Then wed be strong!

Mac

August 10th, 2009
11:35 am

Because JJ (relatively, anyway) disappears in the playoffs, Sekou, that’s why.

And all of a sudden Randolph Morris is going to become a player? Did Harry Potter cast a spell on him?

Big Ray

August 10th, 2009
11:38 am

I like Joe Johnson a lot, but I believe his camp is more likely to be “thinking twice” about a 4 year extension than the Hawks front office is. I say go ahead and extend him. You lock up an all-star level player, and if it ain’t working, then you can trade him. However, before trading ANYBODY….I’d get rid of Woodson.

We can’t hope to win anything with the players we have if Woody doesn’t open things up with his frontcourt players. I know he wants the kind of guys who simply rebound, defend, and shut the hell up (with an occasional scooby snack thrown their way in the form of an alley oop or dump off pass), but that ain’t the kind he has, even though Horford seems willing to play that way for the most part.

Again, I’m talking about Horford. I don’t count Josh in this segment in spite of the fact that he’s our starting PF. I’m talking about the true body-banging enforcers (of which we only currently have two). Can’t deny that Josh gets his, whether by design or by simply taking it.

The job of the coach and his staff is to get the most out of the roster they’ve got. Woody doesn’t do that in all, or even most cases when it comes to the frontcourt. And as much as I like our suddenly more potent backcourt, I hate the idea of our frontcourt guys staying as uninvolved or misused in the offense as in years past….or worse.

Back to Joe. Sign him. Then play him fewer minutes (with Crawford around and a young Teague to develop, there’s really no excuse for it now), and quit relying on him for every play.

And to Joe: stop thinking every play begins and ends with you. If you’re going to think like that, you better be shooting better than 43%, and you better be BRINGIN’ IT like Kobe, Wade, Bron Bron and crew. Otherwise, be a damn teammate.

In the immortal words of Johnny Storm, “ FLAME ON !”

cdog

August 10th, 2009
11:43 am

STILL EVERYTHING IS NOT WOODSON FAULT AS EVERYONE USUALLY TRIES TO MAKE IT OUT TO BE, ITS RICK SUND FAILURE TO BRING IN NEEDED PLAYERS. WE WON’T COMPETE WITH CELTICS, CAVS, AND MAJIC AS LONG AS RICK SUND IS AROUND

Cedric

August 10th, 2009
11:44 am

Somebody has to have heard from Flip this summer. It would be crazy if he is not given a shot on somebody squad this year and I am hoping the Hawks give him a shot again. The rookie is not gonna give us a better shot this upcoming year than Flip would. I know they say it would stunt the young rooks growth or what not but this team cannot wait on somebody to develop or grow into a player as they are doing with RandMo but I think it is easier to let Flip take some of the heat off the youngster and give him time on the pine just like they did RandMo last year. RandMo will get his shot this year and it will be up to him to make the most out of it.

Big Ray

August 10th, 2009
11:45 am

Truth Serum,

Where is this real center lurking, and how are we going to get him? Man, you’re like a cracked-out version of Wile E. Coyote with these ideas.

Truth-Serum

August 10th, 2009
11:52 am

LITTLE RAY, YOU ARENT VERY BRIGHT, SIR. DONT YOU KNOW HOW TO SCOUT? THERE IS A CENTER WHO PLAYS FOR A TEAM THAT HAS MORE BIG MEN THAN IT NEED AND WOULD BE WILLING TO PART WITH THIS CENTER WHO HAS DESTROYED HORFORD CONSISTANTLY IN HEAD TO HEAD AND CAN BOTH DEFEND THE POST AND SCORE. HE NATURALLY PLAYS WITH HIS BACK TO THE BASKET AND CAN RUN THE FLOOR. HIS ASKING PRICE IS REASONABLE AND AQUIRING HIM WOULD STATISFY YOR CHALLENGING WOODSON BECAUSE HE WOULD HAVE TO PRODUCE TO THE NEXT LEVEL IF HE HAD THIS GUY, LITTLE RAY

Hms

August 10th, 2009
11:53 am

TRUTH SERUM

How the hell do you get Michael Phelps and Jerrod from Subway mixed up. They dont even look alike. Just STOP with all the racial stuff. We all know what you really are: A klansman who lives in his grandma’s basement and listens to Tupac and Biggie when you think nobody is around. Your greatest fear is not that somebody will find the prono mags you hide under the bed. Youre scared the other klan members will find the Lionel Richie poster you have on the inside of your closet door and all the black GI Joe dolls you have. Its okay though just keep your Confederate flag draped over it all and nobody will notice. Dont forget to take your Ne-Yo cd out and replace it with David Allan Coe before the next rally or you will be discovered.

niremetal

August 10th, 2009
11:57 am

Mike is back,

Jason’s rep is as a defensive goon with no offensive skills. The latter part of his rep is the reason he’s a “bottom-feeder.” It’s not a lack of toughness.

Ryan Hollins? Man, if you think HE is tough and Collins is not, it’s pretty clear that you never watched either of them play.

Ding.

Big Ray

August 10th, 2009
11:59 am

Fool serum,

Now who might that be, and how do we acquire them? I’ll wait for an answer that makes sense, since you seem to know who this guy is and what the team who has him is willing to do. Is he under contract? Must we trade for him? Who do we trade? And how come you thought of this, but Sund has not?

By the way, before accusing somebody of not being bright, learn to spell “your”, “consistently”, “needs”, and “acquiring” correctly.

And your last sentence made about as much sense as a rat trying to use a rat trap as a cheese grater….

Big Ray

August 10th, 2009
12:03 pm

Mike,

No disrespect, but I gotta go with Nire on this one. Jason Collins is definitely tougher than Ryan Hollins. I was in the ATL for the game against Dallas late last season. Hollins is long and lean. But tough he ain’t.

niremetal

August 10th, 2009
12:06 pm

Ray,

JJ shot better than 45% three straight years before defenses caught onto the fact that Woody ISOs him on every third play.

That’s the only flame I got for ya ;)

Daniel

August 10th, 2009
12:19 pm

Ray- respect on the 11:26 post. One I never said that you said he deserved minutes that was for Kenbud.
I was responding to your assertion that the only way to produce/evaluate ability to produce was with minutes, which as you artfully stated is not true.
I will agree with all of your 11:26 post, except to say that I don’t think that Randolph Morris can do any of those things and I think he has proven it.

Ken Strickland

August 10th, 2009
12:23 pm

DANIEL-duing last yrs training camp and preseason, ALaw definitely showed what he was capable of by having by far the best camp and preseason of any Hawks player. Yet, it didn’t get him anything but continued frustration, as well as reduced mins and opportunities. And please don’t use that he was often injured crap. When he wasn’t injured, he suffered the same fate as the rest of those with DNP coaches decision next to their names

We had our best season in a decade last yr and Woodson relied primarily on an 8 man rotation, with Zaza, Flip and Evans as our primary players off the bench. Right now, we have already have our 8 man rotation in place with Zaza, Evans and Crawford, who’ll replace Flip. We’re getting sll up in the air about signing a secondary FA backup Big that may not get consistent double digit mins.

Big Ray

August 10th, 2009
12:23 pm

Daniel,

I agree that he’s proven thus far that he can’t do those things. As Sekou said, maybe he can change that. And maybe not. Unless we trade him, he’s under contract and has the chance to go in the other direction. I for one do NOT want to go into the season with little more than the hope that he can be what we need off the bench. And I won’t hammer Woody for this one, because as you say….we’ve already seen what he can’t/won’t do.

Niremetal,

True. Very true.

Big Ray

August 10th, 2009
12:26 pm

Ken,

Even though I’m past the Acie Law situation, I still can’t get past his preseason performance last year. He was solid if not hands-down good. In real minutes no less, even though it was preseason. And he was playing against other teams’ starters. But for some reason or other, rare were the opportunities for serious minutes, even though he generally played well with such minutes.

Moving on, I can only hope that Teague shows better. Woody’s made it clear that he already likes Teague better. For what it’s worth, that can’t hurt….

Daniel

August 10th, 2009
12:31 pm

Ken Strickland- there is no way that if the Hawks sign Joe Smith that he will end up getting minutes like Solo. C’mon man, you can’t compare Acie Law to Joe Smith. How’s Acie doing in Golden State anyway? Also, how does your argument work with Acie’s first year where he got consistent minutes and didn’t improve. Also, wasn’t Horford, Marvin, and Josh all rookies who got tons of minutes and support from the coach. Or do they not count? Just Acie Law?
Gimme a break.

funkyketchup

August 10th, 2009
12:35 pm

Assuming we can sign Joe Smith and R Morris is servicable, let’s put Zaza at center and have Crawford and Marvin as super subs. Teague, Mo Evans, Joe Smith, and Morris can join the rotation. That will actually give you a 11-player rotation for the 82-game regular season. Signing Joe Smith or another veteran PF/C will be a key in case Morris does not work out. For the playoffs, play an 8 or 9 men rotation with the best players.

Mike is back

August 10th, 2009
12:51 pm

Okay, Nire and Big Ray…maybe not soft as
powder…I will relent…and I wasn’t implying that Hollins or Solo was
tougher or physical…just that other GMs passed him over for those guys…heck
now even Ben Wallace was signed over him. There is has to be a reason some many
teams are not interested in a guy that size with playoff experience.
 

I’m still trying to remember any dominate performance he
has had…I will agree that he’s a lot more physical than his brother…for
what that’s worth…based on Woody comments about remaining Bigs available do
you see him getting any burn???
 

He reminds me more of a Nazi Mohammed…then some
bruiser.

ILL-logical

August 10th, 2009
1:13 pm

“I know some of you are vehemently (I love that word) opposed to the idea of “4 More Years” with Joe in office. I just don’t understand why”

Because some of us believe that Joe is a larger part of the problem than he is of the solution.

As we move from the era of Solo to Silo, one thing is constant: Woodson and Joe run the show. Period. Joe wasn’t an All-Star until Woodson ” decided that it would be good for the team and Joe ..if he were an All-Star”.So iso Joe and 40+ minutes a game Joe was created. And that left everyone else as a team as well as individually behind. And now the law of diminishing returns is setting in and there doesn’t appear that Woodson has an effective plan B.

Joe, Bibby and Moe all owe a great deal of their current career status to Woodson; what is going to happen to them when he is gone?

Tyger

August 10th, 2009
1:16 pm

BIGS from within…what a novel idea?

I guess after the Celtics secured Hawks’ former #5 overall pick, Shelden Williams, for minimum wage, maybe these homers warrant a closer look. Shellhead isn’t Horford but he’s big, physical and knows how to play and he was our #5 overall pick if anyone forgot. I know he wasn’t Sund’s guy – he was the franchise’s guy – and the franchise looks bad when your in need of a reserve big and your #5 pick signs elsewhere for minimum wage.

Morris, Siler, Hunter are starting to grow on me. I’ve always liked Morris since Kentucky, especially the 33pt. thrashing of UNC lotto picks: Hansborough, Brandon Williams. And I cant sing loud and long enough about his elite AAU pedigree. Morris was once projected top 3.

Knowing Woody and his short leash, that backup PF doesnt weigh heavy into his plans, so you may as well give those minutes to Morris/Siler and Hunter.

The Hawks’ versatility, signature mark of BK, allows Horford, ZaZa, JSmoove, Marvin all to play some PF. So, in reality, the backup PF you seek is already on board. Add 7ft, 270 Randolph Morris – long with strong low post offense to that mix and you’re set.

And continue to mold Hunter/Siler for the future.

Hoops

August 10th, 2009
1:17 pm

The Hawks should sign Joe and Powe and mix them with Korolev and Siler. Then they would have a bench with Moe, Poe, Joe, Ko, & Silerd. They could also have some Tea to drink with their Cat Morris!.

O'Brien

August 10th, 2009
1:31 pm

Mike is Back,

I think beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Look how many teams passed on Flip last year (dude was on his way to Russia when we picked him up). He played great for us off the bench, but yet no team has offered him a deal. It’s all about fit.

What I’m saying is, just because other GM’s went in other directions doesnt mean Collins would not be a fit for what the Hawks need. To help our depth, we need a 7′ footer to come in, bang, play defense, get some rebounds, and commit some hard fouls if necessary. Especially playing against guys like Howard, Shaq, Gasol/Bynum, Perkins etc., we will need 7 footers to bang (and commit hard fouls).

Ray,

There are many bloggers who agree that Woody is not the guy to take the Hawks to the next level. His substitution patterns are too rigid, he lacks the ability to make in game adjustments (his idea of adjustments are play with more energy and intensity), all he knows is iso JJ and the JJ/Bibby 2 man game, and he refuses to play inside out/get our frontcourt involved.

That being said, his teams have been successful (improved record every year, 2 straight playoffs appearances, and home court). And based on what the Hawks have been used to over the last decade, Woody has done well. So I dont see him going anywhere (but I agree with you).

Daniel

August 10th, 2009
1:37 pm

Ill- that post is strange, I disagree, but very interesting…. I will leave it at that.
Tyger- Please no more!!!
Hoops- Brilliant! but shouldn’t it be Silo?

Anakin Joe

August 10th, 2009
1:46 pm

I agree with OB, Collins is a decent 2nd/3rd center but I don’t see him playing alongside Zaza. Collins is likely the best player (after Joe Smith) but we would still need to go out and get a PF (or at least a tweener). The other question becomes would Sund keep RandMo AND sign Siler AND Collins? Doubtful. I think I prefer to go with Siler as the 3rd center.

Loren Woods? My goodness. Dude sucked in his prime… WTF do you think he could do now? TICK-TOCK…

Hoops

August 10th, 2009
1:48 pm

Daniel,

Yeah, Silo. I was trying to change Siler into salad.

Anakin Joe

August 10th, 2009
1:54 pm

Ill, diminishing returns? 47 wins and a 2nd round playoff appearance? Geez, the team just was assigned 7 prime time games, where are these diminishing returns?

Sekou, I think the “Joe issue” is related to his playoff appearance. We’ve heard reports that he was hurt, but was there a specific injury that he was dealing with in the playoffs? Was he fatigued? Or did he just fail to step up? Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t have a complete understanding of his playoff performance.