Extension talks for Joe
Joe Johnson in a Hawks uniform for a few more years sounds pretty good to most folks. The Hawks are talking to Johnson's camp about an extension.
HAWKSVILLE - Might the Hawks be interested in keeping captain and All-Star Joe Johnson off of the robust free agent market of 2010?
It seems so.
Multiple sources have confirmed that Hawks general manager Rick Sund is on an extended trip to the left coast, and part of his itinerary includes time in Los Angeles for face-to-face talks about a contract extension with Johnson’s camp (I mentioned this on Twitter late last night after hearing for sure that this was going on). A three-time All-Star, Johnson is heading into the final year of the five-year, $70 million deal he signed in August 2005 (which if traced back, you will realize was the rebirth of the franchise that has since made the playoffs in back-to-back years).
With superstars LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh headlining next summer’s free agent crop, several teams are lining up to be major players. And that means more competition for the Hawks, were they to let Johnson get to next summer as an unrestricted free agent.
There’s plenty of time for these talks to progress, training camp is still nearly two months away. Just knowing that they are talking, though, is a good sign that the Hawks plan on taking a proactive approach where JJ is concerned. Stay tuned for more details in the coming weeks.
Speaking of training camp, it appears blog-fav/road grader Garret Siler is headed back to the city for training camp, per our friends at the Augusta Chronicle. The big fella had a good showing at the Hawks’ rookie/free agent mini-camp last month. He was mulling training camp invite offers from both the Hawks and Minnesota, but the Timberwolves’ pursuit of Ryan Hollins helped make his decision a little easier.
The need for a veteran big like Joe Smith remains, but at least we know there will at least one true “big man” (6-11 or taller and at least 270 pounds) in camp along with Zaza Pachulia.
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502 comments Add your comment
truth-serum
August 9th, 2009
11:52 am
Ken Strickland
August 8th, 2009
11:27 am
Ken Strickland
August 9th, 2009
10:01 am
HEY KEN,AKA, BUTT BREATH, YOU ARE LEARNING. ITS NICE TO SEE THAT YOU ARE BEGINNING TO REALIZE THE HAWKS ARE INEPT AT THE POST. NO DEFENSE OR OFFENSE.
HEY KEN AKA, DICK, BREATH. HORFORD OFFENSE IS LIMITED TO 10-12FT FACE UP JUMPER. HES VERY PREDICATABLE OFFENSIVELY. JOSH SMITH IS A MUCH BETTER TOOL AND SHOT BLOCKER. I AGREE WITH YOUR IDEAL OF PURSING A CENTER TO DEFEND, BUT HE MUST ALSO BE AN OFFENSIVE THREAT SO THAT HIS MAN WONT ROAM AS HE CAN AND DOES WHEN ZAZA THE MOST UNATHELETIC MAN IN BASKETBALL IS PLAYING. I LIKE THE IDEAL OF HORFORD GOING BACK TO PF BUT HE MUST SPLIT TIME THERE WITH JOSH WHO IS A BETTER PF. HORFORD COULD ALSO GET TIME AWAY FROM ZAZA THE CONTINUING TURNOVER. GO AFTER STODAMIRE OR LOPEZ AND GET HORFORD MINUTES IN BACKING UP JOSH AND THE 5 SPOT. GET ZAZA AKA, JON KONCAK, MINUTES WHEN YOU NEED A HACK MASTER.
MUST ALL OF YUR BLOGS CARRY MESSAGES OF YOUR HATE OF WOODSON? GET A LIFE AND GET OVER IT. HES THE COACH, THE CITY LOVES HIM, THE PLAYERS RESPECT HIM HES WINNING HAWKS ARE MOVING AND YOU ARE HATING.
NO ONE REALLY CARES ABOUT THE HATE CAMPAIGN THAT YOU AND THE BUBBA CREW HAVE SPONSORED. ITS NOT WORKING AND IT, LIKE YOU, ARE A LOSER!
truth-serum
August 9th, 2009
11:56 am
bigdave
August 8th, 2009
10:10 pm
THEY WERE DROPPING PASSES BECAUSE MICHAEL VICK CANT THROW…OH THATS RIGHT MICHAEL NO LONGER PLAYS FOR THE FALCONS THEIR NEW QUARTERBACK IS A HANDOFF ARTIST WHOS CLAIM TO FAME IS THAT HE HANDS OF TO TURNER THE RUNNER UP LEAGUE MVP AND TO NORWOOD.
ITS GOT TO BE THE RECEIVERS FAULT!!
Ramon
August 9th, 2009
12:10 pm
Ken, the only problem with that line up you’re mentioning is, who provides the hustle plays? Who provides the huge momentum shifts off of a defensive play? To me, at best, that squad would only be a replica of the old Pacers in the 90s, with Horford (alone) attempting to duplicate A. Davis and D. Davis production. The thing that we know about Smoove more so than Biedrins, Horford, and Marvin (and to some extent JJ) is that in playoff time, he comes to play.
You do NOT trade away your best post season player. And you do not trade away your best prime time player and ticket seller for ’solid’ play. At the end of the day this is a business. And although Smoove make mistakes that it seems no other person would do, its simply because he pulls off things no one else can even dream about.
Come playoff time you’re going to need your own identity to cause other teams to match up to. By trading Smoove for Biedrin, you’re basically trading away the match up problem that your team causes to submit to the traditional style of basketball that you can NOT defeat Boston, Cleveland, LA, SA, or even Orlando with. So what did you really trade for? To still remain in the 4th seed?
There’s not anyone on here that really doesn’t believe if the playbook changed more to the compliment the lineup that you have now, that the Hawks couldn’t have won at least 5 more games. You change your approach because for all accounts Cleveland struggled with Smoove, and trust me Shaq isn’t going to help on that end. By concentrating on running more, and pushing more, you have what you need to make it to the conference finals (if not the finals).
Another thing to remember is changing the starting lineup helps nothing. The games the Hawks lost, when at full strength, had more to do with what happened in the 2nd and end of 3rd quarters, than it did when the starters were out there. And do you really think Horford can guard Lewis, Garnett (still haven’t seen anyone in the last 2 years guard him better than Smoove), and Lebron (when they go with him at the 4)? You do not trade a player that can guard 2-5 if needed, for someone who’s simply is just taller. Smoove would average more rebounds than Biedrins if this system didn’t have him camped out at the top of the key eating sommores (I realize the last sentence was merely an opinion that is unable to be proving).
Another thing, I am getting tired of people talking about all of the minutes JJ logs. When in actuality it is his fault. He more than even Bibby, is the one who slows down the fast break. When you play 41 minutes a game, but spent a total of 11 minutes dribbling in the same spot, where is your excuse? We all know that Bibby is able to throw an alley oop pass from half court for Josh or Horford to get. But when have you seen JJ (who was signed because he could pass good enough to be a PG) attempt this? It is essentially JJ’s fault that he ends up so tired at the end of the season. If he doesn’t change the way he approaches this team, he will end up right back tired and injured in next season’s post season. Its almost as if he’s trying to be the old Joe Dumars, and have the team score 80 points, and he gets 35 of them.
Ramon
August 9th, 2009
12:15 pm
I’m sorry for so many grammatical errors in that last post, but I’m late for the church and was rushing! Hope everyone has a lovely Sunday.
Doug
August 9th, 2009
12:21 pm
Truth Serum: Caps button is on lower left–Michael Vick is gone–and with him he took a career 54% completion percetage and 75.7 QB rating–In his FIRST year Matt Ryan was at 61% and 87.7…Vick was a better running back…unfortunatley he played quarterback and not very well. But this is a HAWKS site and I do agree that WAY too much time is spent criticizing Woody…who has faults no question. But Woody didn’t draft Sheldon Williams…he didn’t leave Chris Paul and Deron Williams on the table…criticize him for failing to develop Acie Law…perhaps justifiable, but don’t criticize him for not playing a bad player-Salim Stoudamire
niremetal
August 9th, 2009
12:43 pm
Interesting article:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3151
When I was putting together some of the Win Shares-based lists we’ve been posting recently, I wondered how heavily each team relied on their frontcourt and backcourt, and whether or not that correlated to success. So, first I added up WS by a team’s guards and their non-guards, making each into a percentage…
[T]here is no real relationship between a team’s allocation and its success. We’ll see later that balance is by far the more important determining factor in team wins.
Woody, you taking notes?
niremetal
August 9th, 2009
12:43 pm
Interesting article:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3151
When I was putting together some of the Win Shares-based lists we’ve been posting recently, I wondered how heavily each team relied on their frontcourt and backcourt, and whether or not that correlated to success. So, first I added up WS by a team’s guards and their non-guards, making each into a percentage…
[T]here is no real relationship between a team’s allocation and its success. We’ll see later that balance is by far the more important determining factor in team wins.
Woody, you taking notes?
Melvin
August 9th, 2009
12:46 pm
Ramon, great post at 12:15. I’m one of the few that like Josh at PF over Horford as well…
Melvin
August 9th, 2009
12:57 pm
Nire,
Your link goes to show you that STATS can be overrated and misleading depending on the usages of the data. One thing they teach in the studies of mathematics is that averages tells you everything but the truth….
ILL-logical
August 9th, 2009
1:10 pm
The thrust and cut of most of the blog comments over the last few weeks about style of play and the respective talent needed to implement make one glaring assumption: that the Woodson era will extend indefinitely.
The era that remade Mike Bibby’s career and made Joe an All-star will have its limits tested in the 2009-10 season as expectations and scrutiny rise dramatically. No longer confined to the vast wastlands of national media attention, the team will have to play well or face the inevitable criticisms that come with unfullfilled expectations. and the first one to bear the brunt will be the coach.
Mr. Sund has stocked the cupboard with all of Woodson’s favorites.(except for today’s story wher Woodson whines about the lack of depth in the front court when his inability/unwillingness to practice player development brought about this crisis). And he has $2 million to hire a new coach and/ or buy Woodson out if the need arises sooner than later.
Yes, these will be the best of times for some and the worst of times for others.
Ken Strickland
August 9th, 2009
1:31 pm
There are individuals that are sooo stupid they can’t see the forest for the trees. Then you have that bottom feeding individual that can’t see to forest or the trees. These are the ones that come onto a site and immediately starts out referring to people using vile references and name calling, yet has the audacity to accuse someone else of maintaining a HATE CAMPAIGN. WOW, TALK ABOUT THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK.
RAMON-I’m not advocating that we trade Josh for anyone. I was simply giving my opinion on what we’d end up with if it did happen. What frustrates me the most is the unwillingness to expand our OFF system and philosophy in order to take full advantage of the awsome speed, quickness and athleticism, coupled with the size and overall talents of players like JSmith, AHorford, MWilliams and JJohnson. I can handle the rest of Woodsons shortcomings.
Anakin Joe
August 9th, 2009
1:35 pm
Ill, it seems to me that the only expectations this team will endure next season is fighting to be “the best of the rest”. Every pundit will surely claim that there are 3 and then everyone else in our conference. At best, some will suggest that we may be the best of the rest (competing against Chicago, Detroit and maybe Miami if they acquire Boozer) but that certainly doesn’t feel like some crown of thorns to wear for a season. Sund will have an opportunity to determine Woody’s future when contract negotiations start in the spring.
jhan
August 9th, 2009
1:58 pm
Ramon – I agree that Josh could guard positions 2-5. Just not well.
It’s JJ’s fault that he plays 41/game? It’s also his fault that the offense runs through him every play? Not buying any of those arguments.
I will agree that he could/should pass better out of double teams.
When we get a rebound & give the ball to Bibby, who then walks the ball up the floor & runs the play Woodson calls (iso-joe) how is that JJ’s fault? If JJ always got the rebound & called his own number then your argument would be valid.
jhan
August 9th, 2009
2:02 pm
According to the “pundits” last year the Hawks wouldn’t even make the playoffs. Maybe they don’t really know what they are talking about.
I won’t give Woody all the blame for frontcourt player development. He’s been given trash to work with besides his starters. ZaZa being the only exception.
Big Ray
August 9th, 2009
2:02 pm
Ramon ,
I’ll tell you why. Because Lo Wright wasn’t here when Smith was a rookie. This is the same Lo Wright who, in an interview, said that he basically punked Al Horford one time at a hotel. They were getting onto an elevator, and he told Horford that rookies had to take the next elevator. He said that Horford stared at him for about a full minute, then took the next elevator. Have a hard time believing it? I’m sure you can look the article/interview up. Smith might have actually taken it as a joke, and remember, he came out of high school. Horford has a mean streak to him and two NCAA championships under his belt. Yet Wright pulled the seniority nonsense on him. But you see how Horford reacted to Garnett in the ‘07-’08 playoffs….
Big Ray
August 9th, 2009
2:19 pm
Jhan,
“When we get a rebound & give the ball to Bibby, who then walks the ball up the floor & runs the play Woodson calls (iso-joe) how is that JJ’s fault?”
Nope, it ain’t JJ’s fault. The same thing keeps Josh and Marvin from filling the wing on the break. Gotta have a break first…
Big Ray
August 9th, 2009
2:22 pm
Ill-logical,
I’m assuming nothing where Woody is concerned. Either he will be here, or he won’t. He has one year left on his contract either way. Sund has a decision to make, but in the meantime I’m more interested in what his remaining free agency/trade moves are.
Hms
August 9th, 2009
2:28 pm
How to get rid of truth-serum .
Give him real truth serum. A base neutralizes an acid. Raid kills Roaches. Orkin eradicates termites, and so on.
Barfinator
August 9th, 2009
2:30 pm
HOW COME WE MISSED OUT ON BIG BEN WALLACE!!!!!
Big Ray
August 9th, 2009
2:49 pm
Heh. I’m not missing Ben Wallace. He showed just how much of a locker room “help” he was in Chicago. Let’s just say that Joakim Noah and other highly motivated players don’t miss him. And Jim Boylan was an idiot for listening to him when it came to team discipline.
Truth ,
I agree. Accountability should be across the board. I don’t whine about Horford being out of position, but I also don’t see some of the same effort he gives coming from some of his teammates, either. As long as he’s our center, I want to see good things coming from him. Growth is a must, but I’m not going to sniff at a guy who everybody says is undersized, yet if you round his rebounds/points up just a hair, he gave us 12 points, 10 boards and 1.5 bpg in his second year.
How many centers in the league were better? I didn’t look that far, stat-wise. He can’t be far from the goal of top ten, and I’m sure he’ll make it if he stays healthy. And of course, if his offensive role is allowed to expand.
Ramon
August 9th, 2009
3:29 pm
Jhan, we have all seen many times when Horford and Smoove gets a defensive rebound and sends an outlet pass to JJ, only to have JJ hold the ball to wait for half court sets. Out of all the all star guards in the league, JJ attacks the least on fast break opportunities. You speak about them passing the ball to Bibby, but this is something that has been going on BEFORE Bibby even came. It used to be Chills was the only person who could (or would beside Smoove) push the break. So YES it is his fault he has to play so many minutes. If he, as the captain of the team, can’t make better on court decisions to take advantages of situation, then it is partly his fault for the result. JJ plays like Mark Richt used to call plays, not to win, but simply not to lose. And there is a huge difference.
jhan
August 9th, 2009
4:07 pm
Apparently our head coach has no say-so in our offense. No wonder Sund is in no hurry to resign him.
Sam from the Swats
August 9th, 2009
4:08 pm
We resigned Marvin and its funny that we heard not one team was trying sign him. Hmmmm, I wonder why?
jhan
August 9th, 2009
4:12 pm
Probably because Sund told the whole league his top priority was to resign Marvin, Bibby & ZaZa. Nobody made offers for any of them.
Sam from the Swats
August 9th, 2009
4:14 pm
Sorry jhan, but San Antonio was courting ZaZa and Memphis was looking at Bibby. Nobody wanted that clown Marvin. He’s a bum!!
Ramon
August 9th, 2009
4:24 pm
Jhan, yes the head coach has say so in the offense, but not 100%. The coach doesn’t stop players (especially his top player) from making plays. Funny how Flip pushed the tempo, Horford pushed the tempo, Marvin pushed the tempo, Smoove pushed the tempo, and Bibby pushed the tempo, but JJ can’t push the tempo because of the coaches say so in the offense. I am not the only one who thinks JJ isn’t aggressive enough in the fast break.
Ken Strickland
August 9th, 2009
4:30 pm
RAMON-the 2 starting players that control the ball, the OFF and the tempo of the OFF, are JJ and Bibby. If they get an outlet and walk the ball up, they’re doing as instructed. That’s the main reason Woodson and Josh have words so often. Josh will get a rebound, and instead of giving it to either Bibby or JJ, he’ll become a one man fast break by taking the ball the length of the court.
It’s funny, I get criticized for consistently making an issue of the negative impact Woodson’s coaching philosophy and approach have on the team. Yet, no one criticizes those who single out and consistently focus on the perceived negative impact they seem to think JSmith, or AHorford, or MWilliams or JJohnon or MBibby might have on the team.
ITS NOT JUST THE PLAYERS, AND ITS NOT JUST WOODSON. HOWEVER, IF YOU REMOVE WOODSON’S ISSUES FROM THE EQUATION, MOST OF THE PLAYERS ISSUES, AND CORRESPONDINGLY THE TEAMS ISSUES, WOULD SELF CORRECT.
Ramon
August 9th, 2009
4:36 pm
Ken, I understand that Woody says to slow the ball sometimes. But my point is I don’t believe he tells JJ to slow the tempo every single time. As I said, out of JJ, Bibby, and Flip, how is it that JJ had the least amount of fast breaks, although he plays the most minutes? I don’t know any coach in the league who doesn’t listen to his stars. If JJ really wanted to push the tempo, Woody would let him. We ALL know the Hawks build leads when they run. Yet, they merely try to hold on to the lead for dear life when they don’t. So if JJ is the team’s leader, and hasn’t spoken about the change that is needed in that department, then yes it is partly his responsibility.
Ramon
August 9th, 2009
4:41 pm
Ken, I will say though Woody is a good coach, he’s not the coach for this team any longer. He’s not the team for this coach if he can’t see how much easier wins could come, with the same roster he’s given. Every system Woody has played in or coached in goes against the strengths of this team. He wants this to be the new Pistons, but Smoove is the only player on this team that plays defense better than the opposing player on that Pistons team. I know all offense starts with defensive stops. But sometime the best defense is a great offense. You don’t have to play hard defense if you have the other teams bigs and guards in foul trouble from hustling to get back. (trust me Ken, I know at this point with you, I’m just preaching to the choir, lol, I’m just venting).
Stating the Obvious
August 9th, 2009
5:07 pm
Sam,
Marvin was restricted. Bibby and Zaza weren’t. Marvin made it clear from the beginning of the summer that he wanted to return to Atlanta and Sund made it clear that he’d match any reasonable offer for Marvin. So no one made an offer for him – it happens every summer to a couple restricted guys.
But hey, you’re clearly off your meds again so I don’t blame you missing that OBVIOUS subtlety.
And Ramon – it’s JJ and Bibby’s fault that we don’t run a fast-paced offense? So I guess it’s Nash’s fault that the Suns pace slowed to a crawl this year, huh? Or Devin Harris’s fault that the Mavs’ pace slowed down after Nellie left?
Big Ray
August 9th, 2009
5:16 pm
Ramon,
I understand the frustrations. Coaches tend to lean on their veteran players. They work with them more than they guide them, doing more tweaking here and there than actual instructing. Bibby pretty much operates with near impunity. He’s already shown he can talk back and Woody will take it. There will be a certain amount of that, as being the head coach doesn’t alway mean being right. There has to be trust in the relationship. Woody trusts Bibby, and he trusts Joe.
I’m not willing to put all of it on the players or all of it on the coach. But I’m also not going to say the blame doesn’t have a place. Seems to me Bibby would love a more uptempo offense. Actually, that’s not entirely true. Seems he would, but you don’t have to have a more uptempo offense by way of running alone. You can also move things quicker by having more off-the-ball movement and more ball movement overall. After all, isn’t quicker ball and personnel movement more “up tempo?”
We dang sure need to run more, and Woody was quoted PRIOR to last season as saying we needed to. But we didn’t. Now if you asked Woody about that, what could he/would he say? Would he say that his two favorite guys in the backcourt just didn’t get the job done? No, that’s not Woody’s style. He never picks on Joe and Bibby. Would he say that he wasn’t given the right kind of guys to run more? BAM! Sund just handed you Jamal Crawford, and Teague is in the wings. Problem solved. Would he say it’s because we didn’t rebound and defend enough, thereby not creating enough fast break opportunities?
Well, that would be the easiest way out, now wouldn’t it? And I’ve heard this one before. One problem with it though. We’ve seen Childress do it when he was here (lead the break). We’ve seen Horford do it on occasion. Even Zaza, though it’s been rare. But how many times have we complained about Josh leading the break, and either making a heck of a play, or screwing it up royally? Oh yeah….a bunch, right?
So the complaint of “not rebounding enough to create fast break opportunities” is a bunch of hooey. If Josh can get castigated dang near every game (and I remember a LOT of LOUD mouths complaining about this both during the season and during the offseason…and rightfully so in too many cases)….then a lack of rebounds and fast break opportunties isn’t the problem.
The problem is a combo forward with weak handles who is valiantly but foolishly trying to do what our guards all too often won’t do.
How much of that gets laid at the feet of the head coach? Well now, that’s the argument, isn’t it? Here’s my perspective on that: if the bulk of the blame is to go on the players, then we have the wrong players. I’ll go way out on a limb and assume most here would disagree with that idea.
If the bulk of it does NOT fall on the players, then you have a head coach that needs replacing. Why? Well, because either the players aren’t listening to him (ineffective), or they ARE listening to him, and he’s the one who is slowing the offense down. Heh….
I’ve heard that 47 wins means the offense works. Well, it also means the defense works, but we can’t seem to agree on that. I believe BOTH need tweaking, and BOTH were exposed badly in the playoffs, despite the joys that came with a first round victory. I enjoy the fact that this team has progressed to this point, and was glad of the victory. And I don’t want to take anything away from it.
But was it just me, or did that victory feel more like an escape?
RealSquawk
August 9th, 2009
5:37 pm
How many restricted free agents have been offered contracts?
Sam from the Swats
August 9th, 2009
5:46 pm
Stating the obvious, funny. If I recall Josh Smith had an offer from Memphis that we matched. That’s because he is more of a talent and player than Marvin Williams. Josh Smith was a restricted free agent. Marvin is just not that good of a player.
Clyde
August 9th, 2009
6:03 pm
**Yawn** Alabama Viginia Tech Sept. 5th at the Dome.
Hms
August 9th, 2009
6:14 pm
Sam from the ghetto, swats, hood, college park, or wherever
Just get over it. Nothing more sicknin than a brotha hating on another brotha. Nobody says Marvin was better than Josh was. The money sure doesnt say that so what is your point. Stop being a crab. While you noticing things you should notice that nobody has tried really hard to get Amare stoudamire either. You gonna call him a bum too. Teams go after players they know they can get and not guys that they think they dont have a chance at. Everybody and they brother knows Marvin was coming back here and he still has something to prove. Quit bein a brotha hatin crab.
Sam from the Swats
August 9th, 2009
6:22 pm
Hms, the point was made because he made it seem like nobody ever courts restricted free agents. I didn’t say anything about Josh being better than Marvin. If you could read and comprehend you would understand what my point was. Phoenix has been trying to do sign and trade deals for Amare and he’s not moving because they are asking for too much. Nobody is being a crab clown. Marvin is a number 2 pick with something to prove, that he should have been the 20th pick.
Ramon
August 9th, 2009
6:33 pm
Big Ray, the thing for me is I’m not even talking about running all the time (because that doesn’t seem realistic with Woody). I’m saying there come 3-5 times a game where Joe (and sometimes Bibby) could push it, and actually have numbers, but they don’t. Its almost as if Joe played one too many games with Lue, lol. I don’t know if many wings on other teams are more athletic than Joe, or what, but he doesn’t show the aggression needed in the full court transition. Many times on a fast break, the times you see him making a play, when he’s the 4th man up and heading to the corner for a three attempt. I’m not trying to dog Joe at all. All I’m saying is sometimes he makes the game harder for himself. I love Joe as a player. But when you’ve reached your physical peak, it means its time to find other ways to attack to get better efficiency.
Stating the obvious, I didn’t say its their entire fault that we don’t run a fast paced offense. I said it is their partly their fault that we don’t take advantage of more opportunities. I’ve seen Flip go 1 on 3 in transition, more than I’ve seen Joe ATTACK on a 2 on 1 break. Running just to run is crazy, but never running and attacking is crazier. And I rarely see Joe run and attack. And I find it hard to believe that Woody would snap at his star player for taking advantage of a break. Whats better him going on a 2 on 2 break, or waiting to go 1 on 3 against a set defense?
The thing is if you watch most of the Hawks games (and I’ve watched about 70-80% of the last three seasons, even when stationed in California), then you see the Hawks often time lose games that they could have won. Very rarely do you see the Hawks just get blown out from the beginning. And that goes back to taking advantage. If Smoove is to be blamed for being successful on only 50-60% of the fast breaks he leads (and I bet his fast break success rate is higher than Woody’s offensive play calling rate), then why can’t JJ be blamed for moments in those same games where he didn’t attack when he should have?
JJ probably has more power over what he does than Lebron has in Cleveland (he definitely has the ball in his hands more than Lebron). So saying his decisions don’t have an affect over the tempo of the game, is something I totally don’t agree with.
Hoops
August 9th, 2009
7:15 pm
Tuesday is August 11. Josh Smith will not be a BYC player after that. Will a trade be made after that date?
I only see 3 players left that I would be interested in for the 4th post position for the Hawks. Joe Smith, Linas Kleiza, and Leon Powe. Joe Smith will require a 2 year deal. Kleiza will also require a 2-3 year deal. Powe is a gamble with his history of knee injuries.
If we are going to sign another post player, then the Hawks should get a player that they can continue to build with. Joe Johnson’s extension is probably controlling the length of this deal. The Hawks want to re-sign JJ and stay under the L. tax. As I have said before, one of the core players has to go by next summer if the Hawks are going to stay out of L. tax.
We have 10 players under contract with 6.9M left under the L. tax. Knowing that a core player will have to be traded by next summer, why not get the best player available now as long as we stay under the L. tax? If, I said if, Josh is the one traded during the next 12 months, then why not sign Kleiza for 3 years? We could probably get him for 3M per. I don’t think Denver will go into the L.tax to match us! Then we can sign Siler and Korolev for a minimum salary. That leaves 2M for a 14th player. Maybe we can take a chance on Powe. He would be a gamble, but a steal if he worked out. Sometimes you need to take a gamble! O. Hunter is also available if you are afraid to gamble.
Mystikal
August 9th, 2009
7:20 pm
Yes, we do need another big men, but for all those crying about the big men being swallowed up, all of them aren’t good for us. Ben Wallace(just retire), Drew Gooden (soft), Varejoe (overpayed), Ryan Hollins (over rated), and Rasheed Wallace (was never coming) to name a few aren’t worth the fuss. I personally would have loved to get Channing Frye, but will be happy with Joe Smith if we can make it happen. I know it is that dead part in the summer and everyone is dying for some news on anything. Just pointed this out so no one gets too upset over something they shouldn’t. With that, keep it moving..
Mystikal
August 9th, 2009
7:58 pm
If people say Al Horford is not that good as PF/C than why do people continuously mention Josh Smith and even JJ’s name in trade talk, but I have yet to hear anyone talk about Horford. That is because Horford gets it done. It’s not always pretty and definitely not his ideal situation, but he puts on his hard hat and gets it done. I’ve had my issues with Josh Smith as well, but I cannot deny all that he brings. I hope he takes a big step forward this season but if not I’m working on trade scenarios already. We already know finanically somebody (in top 7) is going to have to go next year anyway for the salary cap.
Stating the Obvious
August 9th, 2009
8:09 pm
Sam/Rod/Gordon Snack,
I said “it happens every summer to a couple restricted guys.” How does that translate to “he made it seem like nobody ever courts restricted free agents.” Huh?????
Learn to read. And take your meds. Word.
Stating the Obvious
August 9th, 2009
8:16 pm
And isn’t it great how Rod/Sam keeps claiming he’s two different people though “Sam” and “Rod” post ONLY to hate on Marvin and use “clown” in every damn post (which no one else here ever uses). And oh yeah, when “Sam” got called out for claiming to have played D1 ball, he forgot to go back and check that it was “Rod” who said that.
You’re not fooling anyone but yourself if you think anyone is buying into “Sam” and “Rod” being separate people. But we’ll know what’s up if “Ben from East Point” suddenly shows up making diss posts on Marvin.
Tom from Bankhead
August 9th, 2009
8:27 pm
Marvin sucks.
Sam from the Swats
August 9th, 2009
8:28 pm
Stating the Obvious that you’re an idiot. I know Rod, I am not Rod dummy. I played D2 ball, and I never claimed to have played D1 ball, so I don’t know what you’re reading. To your restricted free agents comment, that’s true but Marvin is one that no other team wanted. He’s just not that good. What’s funny is I know the postmaster is laughing because he sees that me and Rod are 2 different people. Me and Rod also laugh at the comments when people think we are the same. You people are hilarious. And no, me and Rod are not the only ones who post statements against Marvin. We are the only ones you guys remember. You guys don’t know basketball and you don’t know game play. If you know game play, you will know that guy was not number 2 pick material.
Sam from the Swats
August 9th, 2009
8:32 pm
Thanks Tom, also Mystikal, trade scenarios for Josh? Answer this, who was the leading scorer in the playoffs for the Hawks last year? The guy makes dumb plays sometimes I agree, but he came to play in the playoffs last year.
Anakin Joe
August 9th, 2009
8:34 pm
Mystikal, people tend not to mention Horford in trade talks because he is a quality big man on a rookie contract. So that makes him very valuable and finding a trade that would return comparable value is close to impossible. And the same was true of Smith (and to a lesser degree Marvin).
Sam (or Rod), how many offers has the beloved David Lee received this season? If you haven’t noticed, things have changed since last summer… this thing called “the economy”. If you don’t believe, ask Allen Iversen.
Joe does NOT push many fast break opps. In some cases, he seems to prefer to be the distributor (let’s not act like we have never watched Joe throw a lob from half court to Smith). But in most cases, he prefers to set-up in half-court. And guess what, that isn’t an awful decision. I think many of you only remember the playoffs. Our half-court offense in the regular season was FAR from awful. If it was predictable, it was only because IT WORKED. We were among the best in offensive TOs (think that helps us with defense?) We were among the top 10 in offensive efficiency, aided by few TOs and a fairly high number of trips to the free throw line. Bottom line, we did a better job of converting our offensive possessions into points than about 65% of the other teams. We had 6 players in double-figure points, do y’all think that a bunch of teams did that? They didn’t.
Yes, our playoff offense has been awful the past two seasons. But Boston’s stellar defense and a slew of injuries may have been undeniable factors. I could see how a player like Teague could help in the playoffs, especially if he truly can penetrate at will. Of course, I won’t be asking a rookie to be our savior in a playoff series. But I also don’t think that we could go from an ensemble cast during the regular season and then ask Joe to put the team on his shoulders in the playoffs. The formula can’t change in the 3-5 days between the end of the regular season and the start of the playoffs.
Stating the Obvious
August 9th, 2009
8:37 pm
Who said he was #2 pick material? A #2 pick who lives up to his potential gets more than what Marvin got. I don’t think he was worth the #2 pick, but I do think he was worth the contract we just gave him. You’re nearly alone in thinking otherwise.
And yeah, other people around here don’t like Marvin. But Sam/Rod is the only poster who posts ONLY to diss Marvin.
“Sam” and “Rod” also both have a tendency to claim that people who haven’t played high-level ball shouldn’t talk. Add that to the list of OBVIOUS reasons why “Sam” and “Rod” are OBVIOUSly the same person.
Take your meds. Word.
Stating the Obvious
August 9th, 2009
8:38 pm
And Stromile Swift? If we sign him, it better be to clean the locker rooms
Anakin Joe
August 9th, 2009
8:41 pm
Sam and for the record, Josh outscored Joe in the playoffs by 8 total points (less than a point per playoff game). And folk widely believe that our playoff offense (especially against the Cavs) was pathetic. I don’t want to trade Smith, but not because of his offensive production in the playoffs (let’s face it, dude was king of the pigs) but because of his potential as a top defensive anchor for a playoff team.
Ramon
August 9th, 2009
8:49 pm
Anakin, I agree it was better than 65% of the league, but that is proven by a #4 seed. But to beat the other 3 seeds in front of the Hawks, they need more than what they are doing at the moment. When you’re trying to fight to get better, you’re not looking at the good things, but trying to see how to improve in all the other areas that you don’t take advantage in. If you remember the Spurs, Lakers, and Bulls, they beat you at both games because they could play both games. But the thing was they decided the tempo, they decided what was going to happen and how fast or slow it was going to happen. And I’m only saying I think JJ could take advantage of things more and it would make it easier on him