Extension talks for Joe
Joe Johnson in a Hawks uniform for a few more years sounds pretty good to most folks. The Hawks are talking to Johnson's camp about an extension.
HAWKSVILLE - Might the Hawks be interested in keeping captain and All-Star Joe Johnson off of the robust free agent market of 2010?
It seems so.
Multiple sources have confirmed that Hawks general manager Rick Sund is on an extended trip to the left coast, and part of his itinerary includes time in Los Angeles for face-to-face talks about a contract extension with Johnson’s camp (I mentioned this on Twitter late last night after hearing for sure that this was going on). A three-time All-Star, Johnson is heading into the final year of the five-year, $70 million deal he signed in August 2005 (which if traced back, you will realize was the rebirth of the franchise that has since made the playoffs in back-to-back years).
With superstars LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh headlining next summer’s free agent crop, several teams are lining up to be major players. And that means more competition for the Hawks, were they to let Johnson get to next summer as an unrestricted free agent.
There’s plenty of time for these talks to progress, training camp is still nearly two months away. Just knowing that they are talking, though, is a good sign that the Hawks plan on taking a proactive approach where JJ is concerned. Stay tuned for more details in the coming weeks.
Speaking of training camp, it appears blog-fav/road grader Garret Siler is headed back to the city for training camp, per our friends at the Augusta Chronicle. The big fella had a good showing at the Hawks’ rookie/free agent mini-camp last month. He was mulling training camp invite offers from both the Hawks and Minnesota, but the Timberwolves’ pursuit of Ryan Hollins helped make his decision a little easier.
The need for a veteran big like Joe Smith remains, but at least we know there will at least one true “big man” (6-11 or taller and at least 270 pounds) in camp along with Zaza Pachulia.
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502 comments Add your comment
niremetal
August 5th, 2009
11:20 pm
This is officially my favorite sentence of all time (thank you, Tyler):
Anyone who thinks adding a Joe Smith to that rotation will not help, is a Morris, Siler, and whoever else these unproven players are, dreamer.
I’m just teasing…but man, try to diagram THAT sentence.
Back to vacation…
bigdave
August 5th, 2009
11:22 pm
nire…
re up on Joe…? and at what ticket?
niremetal
August 5th, 2009
11:23 pm
There’s a lot of talk here about chemistry.
Chemistry? Yeah, chemistry.
5 points to the person who can place that reference.
And NOW back to vacation…
Samuel
August 5th, 2009
11:34 pm
Mystical,
I agree that somebody has to go. I vote Marvin.
doc
August 5th, 2009
11:48 pm
sautee a little low is what i thought.
Mystikal
August 5th, 2009
11:51 pm
Estimated Top 20 players (no order)
Kobe, Lebron, Dwade, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitski, Deron Williams, Carmelo Anthony, Paul Pierce, Joe Johnson, Steve Nash, Brandon Roy, Chauncey Billups, Chris Bosh, Tony Parker, Amare Stoudamire, Paul Gasol, Kevin Durant
Next five:
Derrick Rose, Carlos Boozer, Danny Granger, Josh Smith, Devin Harris
Out Due to Injury:
Yao Ming (top 15 healthy), Gilbert Arenas, Al Jefferson, Manu Ginobli, T-mac, Jermaine O’neal, Elton Brand, Greg Oden?
Out Due to Age:
Shaq, Ray Allen, Baron Davis,
DecDawg
August 6th, 2009
12:13 am
I just can’t agree with paying a guy who only plays from foul line to foul line max money. He refuses to go strong to the basket and NEVER posts up his defender when he has a size advantage every night. And JJ still has yet to make an adjustment to being double-teamed. He has the same reaction every night…that’s part of the reason he struggles in the playoffs. He has not added a single wrinkle to his game since he got here.
And let’s be honest, the only person in the starting lineup he out-hustles is Bibby. When the “so-called” best player on your team is not in the top 3 hustle guys on your team…you need another “best player”.
And for the record, Brandon Roy is a better basketball player than Joe Johnson so whatever Roy gets, Joe’s salary should be less…and not even that close in my opinion.
realsquawk
August 6th, 2009
12:15 am
big dave,
I will no longer use joe Johnson is tripled and doubled team as an excuse. by now it is his own fault. are you suggesting that the players come up with their own offensive scheme?
If joe johnson is tired its because he chooses to stay on the court, he chooses to accept the double and triple team, and he refuses to defer to his teammates. Do you think when teams are coming up with their defensive schemes Joe Johnson is in the top five? nope Kobe, lebron, carmelo, roy, dwight,wade, and nowtziki to name a few. You want to know why those names don’t come to mind when you say getting tired in the playoffs underperforming for example? Because they know what it takes to get there and have energy they wouldn’t let a coach run them into the ground and they know the double and triple team is counterproductive.
Whateva wear and tear Joe has accumulated over the past two years is his own fault he has had the help he is just a quiet un assuming ball hog.
Roy didn’t look tired, Kobe didn’t look tired and he had been playing for two years straight, Lebron has been playing about the same and he does more running more jumping and more falling then joe has done in his whole life and he doesn’t seemed to be excaberated come playoff time. and i can guarantee even with the injuries to our squad lebron is not loosing to the magic if him and joe johnson switch places. (okay the last part is a reach)
realsquawk
August 6th, 2009
12:34 am
DecDawg,
agreed, but how much lower are we talking
doublettoluca
August 6th, 2009
1:09 am
Mystikal i cannot believe that you have greg oden i you best players in the nba list he averaged 9 points for god’s sake i think you should put jameer nelson and rashard lewis, vince carter, bynum, Andre Eguadala (spell check) and even odom for the matter before you put oden on the list p.s the hawks suck the are not going to be able to hold there own with the new and improved east they are lucky if they come in 5 and loose in the second round….
Stating the Obvious
August 6th, 2009
1:17 am
It’s pretty simple. Without Joe, we don’t make the playoffs. Someone will offer Joe 5 years at 80 mil next summer. That might be expensive, but we can’t get anyone else for that price who teams have to gameplan for like they have to with Joe. So we need to extend Joe. And since Joe will laugh his ass off at any 3 year offer no matter the price or any 4 year offer worth under $60 mil, we need to pay the man more than what a lot of people around here suggest.
Seems pretty obvious.
The Flash
August 6th, 2009
1:23 am
I think that this team’s plan has to be to get bosh in 2010. That’s the list. They sign JJ, they must have the flexibility to move him. They get Bosh, and they can win big.
If I am wrong, and Big Baby signs a one year deal with Boston, the Hawks must get him in 2010 if they don’t land Bosh. Then they keep JJ.
JJ will make key plays on offense, but not on defense or the boards, nor in the open court, not the way a big money 2/3 needs to. Big money 2/3s play the open court better, get key boards, the odd type ones that the other team should get but don’t because of them, make key steals, and run the court with the ball and finish in ways that JJ don’t.
Bosh can compete with the best of the bigs, especially with Al beside him. He is the target.
The Lakers will not repeat because Gasol can not sustain the physical level of play he put out last year. He is not built for it, and his body will break down. He will either sustain a season-ender or will be plagued with various and sundry injuries. You will not see the Gasol of the playoffs again, perhaps ever but definitely not throughout next season. Bynum’s knee is a problem that won’t quit. Phil got everything out of his team last year in a way he never has before. I fear he did so at Gasol’s expense. I hope I am wrong, but Phil I believe, if Gasol goes down bad, is completely to blame.
doublettoluca
August 6th, 2009
1:49 am
no way is chris bosh going to come to the hawks come on he might as well go to the bucks..lol lets be serious here no big named free agent wants to come to atlanta (only if they are from atlanta)
doublettoluca
August 6th, 2009
1:51 am
bosh cannot hold his own against the good bigs in the league the guy is a power foward not a center just like AL bosh is very thin and not a dominant big but a jump shooting big and no way will he ever want to come to the hawks
doublettolucahawks23
August 6th, 2009
1:54 am
bosh cannot hold his own against the good bigs in the league the guy is a power foward not a center just like AL bosh is very thin and not a dominant big but a jump shooting big and no way will he ever want to come to the hawks
p.s did you see the orlando raptors playoof series in 2008 bosh could hardly hold his own against rashard lewis which is a small foward
CaliHawks
August 6th, 2009
4:10 am
Yes!! I love the idea of keepin JJ for alot more years to come.. Do all us hawks fans remember tha years b4 Joe Johnson u kno thas one wit Shareef abdur-rahim , jason terry ,al harrington, Rasheed Wallace and the year we could had Pau Gasol in the draft (which we traded tha pick 4 shareef) etc….. Joe Johnson was the best to come to tha hawks since i hate to say but Dominqie Wilkins. Why Would tha Hawks even consider lettin him go.. We already kno the big name free agents next year that everyone has on there wish list aint comin to Alanta.. So lets get ahead of the league by lockin up one of tha best players in tha league and keepin riding this ship til it sinks i sure dont wanna be wishin we was in tha playoffs Ive had to much fun watchin tha hawks play in them !! GO HAWKS!!!!
Dominique Wilkins
August 6th, 2009
8:27 am
If you look at the nimbers, it’s important that we sign Joe to a competable rate.
Oh man, that was a heat check!
Hawks Support
August 6th, 2009
9:20 am
truth-serum should never be able to post here again for such a racist comment about Sekou or anybody for that matter. You a tasteless person for such an act. Is you mother still partnered with Billy Ocean as the opening act for the New Edition comeback tour.
kwooden1
August 6th, 2009
9:39 am
There are currently 24 guys getting paid more than JJ this year, not including B. Roy. (HoopsHype.com) And guys like K. Martin, R. Jefferson and Stojakovic are close to his pay. With the understanding that the top 5 players in the league will be around 20M+/per, 17-18M/per sounds right for JJ now. He still has room to improve, even though I agree his taken a physical beating the last view years. For those who say he shouldn’t be tired, he didn’t take off a year like Wade!
JJ is a jumpshooter, but he’s no more a jump shooter than M.Redd who’s being paid 17M. JJ is our best defender and can go for 30 on any given night. He will easily command 17-18M next summer and may even get higher offers by teams like NY or NJ that miss out on the Lebron, Wade, Bosh sweepstakes.
To be very truthful this is a useless discussion to me, because I’m much more worried about missing out on Joe Smith. I’m not surprised that J. Smith is waiting, but I hope they we’ve offered him more than a one year deal. I don’t believe his the key to a championship, but he’s currently the best option to fill our need for vet big man. Siler and Morris are good projects and I hope they turn out to be great players, but Woody plays guys that are ready. (he’s not developing anyone)
Lets go HAWKS, find away to get Joe Smith signed. Then I will be happy for the summer!
GO HAWKS!!
Daniel
August 6th, 2009
9:45 am
Simply put joe johnson at 75 mil for 5 years is a good contract. It will not tie up this team financially, and is essential if we are to continue to be a playoff contender.
Daniel
August 6th, 2009
9:46 am
kwooden1- nicely put.
Big Ray
August 6th, 2009
10:16 am
I just get tired of arguing the numbers, is all. Sign the man. Don’t make it a crazy, franchise-crippling contract, but sign the man. You can always trade him later if you feel you must. It’s asset management.
A five year contract does scare me. A three year makes me feel better. I’m not precocious enough to assume that JJ wouldn’t accept a 3 year contract (hey, it gives him options as well as the team), or that he’s guaranteed to get 5 years and $80 million from somebody else.
What I like least is that it would seem that as long as he’s here, we run a “pyramid style” offense, where he’s at the top of the pyramid, and most everybody else is somewhere near the base. JJ is the best player on this team, but as Samuel has noted, he’s not the kind of franchise player that you can simply add a series of limited role players to, and come up with a title contender. Hell, the playoffs have shown us that you can’t even do that with the top players in the business. Kobe is the ish and all that, and Odom is the ultimate role player, but Gasol is a real all-star in his own right.
Lebron found out quickly that just being Lebron isn’t good enough. Even all-star level pg Mo Williams wasn’t enough help. Duncan plays next to one of the best PGs in the game, on the most disciplined team in the League. Hard to win without his fellow all-star level super-sub SG, or a suitable designated helper in the paint.
Yet we have talent in the 3, 4, and 5 spots…but we still run this pyramid offense where it’s JJ 1st, 2nd, and sometimes 3rd. Yet he does not produce what other guys in his “position” produce. By that I mean he’s the top dog here. But he’s not producing like other top dogs.
I, too get tired of hearing about the double and triple teams, and the fatigue. I don’t see how JJ could be any more tired than Wade was. Look what Wade had to work with all year long (and he played about 1 minute per game less all year, if even that): a rookie head coach, a rookie pg, a patchwork lineup that includes an oft-uninspired, has-been, half-crippled PF/C. Yet he performed like a true star in the playoffs, and that team damn near took us out in the 1st round.
Love JJ. Love his game (mostly). But 5/$80 mil? In these trying economic times, it’s hard to see where he gets a raise, particularly after performing worse than ever on a team that has been better than ever.
Anakin Joe
August 6th, 2009
10:33 am
Many years ago, the idea of only elite players getting a max contract was demolished. Elite players have their income supplemented with endorsements. Wade and Joe may make comparable NBA dollars but Wade is a national salesman for T. Mobile, Ford-Lincoln and Converse (soon to move to MJ’s line). Joe, on the other hand, has his imaged flashed on the MJ commercial for 2 seconds.
Somewhere, back when LaFrentz, Alan Houston, Kenyon, Sczerbiak and Rashard Lewis were getting enormous contracts for being very good (not great) players, pandora’s box was opened. Joe has earned a contract worth close to top dollar… I won’t argue if he is 95% of the top or 98% of the top… he should be real close to the top. My only issue is the length of the deal, not the per year value. If Sund can get that genie back in the bottle, more power to him.
Big Ray
August 6th, 2009
10:33 am
Kwooden1 ,
I understand what you’re saying, but those contracts weren’t signed this year, were they? No, those guys were signed to those lucrative contracts BEFORE the economy began a serious downturn. Would anybody be willing to sign Arenas NOW, to the contract he signed before he decided to get surgery done? Doubt it. Most of those 24 guys were signed well before all of this happened.
As for JJ vs. Wade…..man, be real. Wade just decided to “take a year off?” I suppose all the reports of injuries were all a lie. Hell, if he can take a year off, come back and score damn near 30 a game ALL SEASON LONG, then maybe JJ should “take a year off.” Not only would he come back completely rejuvenated, but our team might actually learn to play…..like a team.
Hey, I have an idea. Let’s sign him to a 5 yr/ $80 million contract. Give him the first year off. When Wade came back from HIS year off, he averaged 29.1 ppg, 5 rebounds, 5.3 assists, and did it on 49.1% shooting, at 38.6 mpg. Since we know Joe isn’t Wade, let’s lower the numbers for him. When he comes back from HIS year off, he should average 25ppg, 5 boards, 5 assists, and do it on 45% shooting, with a maximum of 37mpg.
If not, trade his ass. How’s that sound?
Melvin
August 6th, 2009
10:38 am
5yr/$80 mil for JJ would only be 1 mil per yer increase than than his current salary. I’m ok with that, if it keeps him of the FA market. I prefer not to see him test the FA waters where you have a big shark like the KNICKS larking… Like some bloggers have already said, if we don’t keep JJ than who are we going to get to replace him (or at least his production)???
Big Ray
August 6th, 2009
10:43 am
Daniel ,
5 years and $75 million shouldn’t tie up this team financially. But that would depend on what the owners are willing to spend, now wouldn’t it? Since the ASG came into the picture, this team has spent plenty of cash on it’s guards, and very little on it’s forwards and centers. Josh Smith is the lone exception to that (I don’t count Al Harrington because he wasn’t here very long, and we just let him walk as a FA), and we didn’t even come up with that contract ourselves. It was a force du jour.
People laugh when you mention ownership in connection to spending on a big man, but history speaks for itself.
Kwooden1 ,
Seriously, let’s just do it. Hey, we traded for Crawford, so we have a SG who can play in JJ’s place while he’s off getting rejuvenated. All we have to do then is re-sign Flip as a backup and get Astro Joe a pass-first pg who won’t actually get to play (you no shoot, you no play). I’m sure Crawford can raise his shooting percentage from 40% to JJ’s level and 43%, and just think: Teague will get some early real-game time development.
All that and JJ can enjoy a year off from work like Wade did. But I’ll be expecting the aforementioned results when he gets back. Or he’s outta here.
Big Ray
August 6th, 2009
10:48 am
Hey look. Brandon Roy just got max money from the Blazers. I wonder if that put them over the luxury tax? I mean, we all know they’re only as good as they are because their owner has a lot of money.
Wait….how much are they spending? Seems they have a bunch of rookies and other young players. The only vets they have with contracts any bigger than the guaranteed rookie contracts are Miller and Pryzbilla, far as I can remember. And those ain’t very big contracts.
Funny, I remember hearing that the reason their coaching staff is so effective, the reason they won 54 games, the reason they do what they do….is because their owner has a lot of money.
Weird how THAT’S the case there, but OUR “not as rich” ownership has NO effect on our ability to spend what’s necessary for a decent big man HERE. Go figure…..
Big Ray
August 6th, 2009
10:50 am
Melvin,
I’m all for signing him. Sign him and either he plays for you, or you can trade him down the road if you feel it works out for the best. That’s why I was so hot about getting Smith signed last summer. You have to keep the asset, not lose it.
niremetal
August 6th, 2009
10:53 am
Ray,
1) Wade didn’t play in 89 games in ‘07-’08 like JJ did and he did NOT have to run nearly as many ISO plays because Spoelstra’s offense (like his mentor Riley’s) relies on lots of ball movement. Wade also didn’t have to play on a bad foot for the last 3 months of the year. Combine those things, and I don’t see how you can say that you don’t see how JJ could be any more tired than Wade was.
2) He does get more double and triple teams than any other start in the league besides LeBron and Kobe.
3) No one is saying that JJ is as good as LeBron or even Wade and no one is saying that JJ should get LeBron/Wade money. Those guys will be getting 5/$95 or 6/$120. JJ will get around 5/$80 on the open market and the Hawks won’t offer him a 6 year deal. So saying he is getting paid like the other top dogs or that he will get paid like the other top dogs is simply not true.
4) Even in a down economy, teams with cap room are going to spend up to the cap and most will spend up to a couple million below the luxury tax threshold, particularly the large market teams that will have little problem turning a profit. The reason is simple – the cap and tax are based on league revenues. So the state of the economy is already factored in when the cap and tax levels are set. So if large market teams have cap room and miss on LeBron and Wade and Bosh, at least a couple will go and offer JJ a 5-year contract that gives him a raise over his current salary.
5) I don’t see how he performed “worse than ever,” even if you take into account his injuries etc. Seems to me that he performed just as well as he did in ‘07-’08. Except this time he did it on a 47-win team that made the second round of the playoffs. True, he is off from the career year he had in ‘06-’07 when teams hadn’t yet started double teaming him on every play. But he is still the centerpiece of a team that won 47 games despite being gimpy for 3 months of the year and despite having a coach who is allergic to ball movement. And he still averaged 21 and 6.
Big Ray
August 6th, 2009
10:54 am
And 5 yrs/$80 million is NOT a $1 million/year raise. It’s a $2 million a year raise….. His current contract iss 5 yrs/$70 million. Just a minor quibble.
But hey, Crawford makes 1 million more a year than Speedy and Acie did, and that’s killing our ability to sign a veteran big. Just imagine if JJ gets 2 million more a year. Oh calamity, death, destruction, and chaos. Heh….
Big Ray
August 6th, 2009
11:03 am
Niremetal,
I thought you were on vacation? Uh-huh.
Anyhow, I knew you’d come to JJ’s rescue.
Knew it! Now go ahead and say what you really want to say: Woody sucks. Come on, you can do it. As Mel Gibson said in Lethal Weapon 4, “it’s both satisfying AND therapeutic!”
You’re right, I should never compare JJ to Wade. Problem is, people keep doing it for me. I don’t expect JJ to put up the kinds of numbers Wade does, ball movement or not. Seems JJ would know plenty about ball movement (and personnel movement without the ball), having come from D’Antoni’s offense in Phoenix. Yet pound the ball he does (yes, I know…Woody Woody Woody!).
Like I told KWooden1, give the man a year off. We have Crawford and Bibby in the backcourt, we can afford to! Sign him up, then send him home. Then fire Woody and trade Josh for Biedrins. Then, in 2010-2011, Joe will come back, no longer tired, no longer hurt, and not having to worry about double and triple teams anymore. And we will win the NBA championship. Book it.
Oh, I forgot. To complete the can’t-miss formula, we need to trade Jamal Crawford for Brandon Bass, Teague for Dajuan Blair, and Mo Evans for a pass-first pg to come off the bench. Instant championship.
Melvin
August 6th, 2009
11:03 am
Big Ray,
I was referring to his upcoming season salary which is almost $15 mil…
The Truth
August 6th, 2009
11:07 am
Ray
Instead of 5/$80 mil, what about 5/75M mil with a 5 mil incentive package for Joe? This is the amount he is currently making. In a down market, that equals a raise. I agree with you, offering him a straight-up 5/80 mil in this market is a bit steep at age 28, but at least the incentive package could keep him motivated.
niremetal
August 6th, 2009
11:07 am
Ray,
Roy’s extension doesn’t kick in until 2010, after which Darius Miles’s contract will be off the books. This summer they had the money to sign Miller because LaFrentz’s contract came off the books.
This year was the first time they paid the tax in 5 years, and it was only because of the Darius Miles debacle – I’m sure you remember how the Blazers went into conniptions and threatened to sue any team that let Miles play. The reason was simple – they didn’t want to have to pay the tax that would come along with that.
bigdave
August 6th, 2009
11:09 am
watching the Hawks night in and out and watching those players respected teams/systems… Joe’s role is hell… ill saying out of shot difficulty he is 2nd behind Kobe… no screens, no high/low post options, no motion, no true pg…
bigdave
August 6th, 2009
11:10 am
Wade, Kobe, Lebron… they arent comparable to Joe…
Anakin Joe
August 6th, 2009
11:11 am
Ray, the cool thing is that our “not as rich owners” have been to more playoff games in the past two years than Mr. Apple in Portland. Pretty cool, huh?
True Hawks Fan
August 6th, 2009
11:13 am
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/231157-inside-the-mind-of-atlanta-hawks-all-star-guard-joe-johnson
Big Ray
August 6th, 2009
11:14 am
Niremetal,
By the way…..how in the devil did you manage to track how many double/triple teams guys in the NBA get (hence the statement about JJ being third)? Did John Hollinger fax that over to you? Man, that guy is incredible ….
Heyyyyyy…who made JJ play on a bad foot for 3 months?!
That’s it, I’m sending in some top secret operatives from the Blog Crimes Unit (BCU) to go get Woody. The charges? 90 counts of Aggravated Battery by way of Coercion (one for each day that Joe played on a bad foot, 3 months total). Extortion. And last but not least, Accessroy to 90 counts of Habitual Handicap Parking Space violations. Because you KNOW Joe never got to park in the handicapped spots.
Big Ray
August 6th, 2009
11:22 am
Melvin,
I gotcha. I was looking at the contract itself, not the last year thereof. My bad.
Truth,
I’m truly not worried about it. I’m just tired of contracts and crap already. And I’m making fun of everything I can get my hands on. I need a vacation. 5 and 80 is not a killer as long as this organization is willing to pay to keep a good product on the floor. They can’t keep spending like crazy on guards while being as tight as Dick’s hatband when it comes to the frontcourt. Horford’s up next, and we still haven’t paid Marvin, though that should be done any day now….I think. JJ’s gonna get a raise whether anybody likes it or not. I just hope he can play like he’s worth it.
Seriously, we COULD give him a year off….
Niremetal,
My comments on the Blazers and how much they were paying was anything but a fact finding mission. Don’t you know it’s spitball hour? I was aiming at Joe and you got in the way. Dammit, spitball hour is almost over and you cost me my best shot of the day.
Astro Joe,
Cooler than Freddie Jackson sippin’ on a milkshake. Even cooler if we can keep it that way. And I didn’t know he was Mr. Apple. Damn, where do these computer nerds keep coming from? Next thing you know, Mr. Microsoft will get himself an NBA team. But will he be more like Mr. Apple, or more like Mr. Cuban?
The Truth
August 6th, 2009
11:24 am
True Hawks Fan,
I have to laugh at this comment”
I took overthe fourth quarter of Game 6 versus the Celtics in Round 1 of the 2009 playoffs
Correction: This was 2008 playoff against the Celtics not 2009. If Joe is thinking like this, then he is still tired and need even more time off
Big Ray
August 6th, 2009
11:42 am
To lay out the article that True Hawks Fan just gave us a link to:
Jack Bender (Scribe) Written on August 05, 2009
On June 1, I wrote up a very modest to-do list for Atlanta Hawks GM Rick Sund. He has taken that list to heart and has accomplished one of the best summers in the history of the Hawks franchise. However, he is making his most important move this week by trying to work out a contract extension with Joe Johnson.
On a daily basis, I only read one Atlanta Hawks blog—Bret LeGree’s Hoopinion blog which is part of the ESPN True Hoop network. LeGree is a great read because he looks at Hawks issues from a totally different perspective than I do.
He is one of these NBA stats guys in the mold of the Houston Rocket’s GM Daryl Morey. I like the new focus on statistical analysis, but I think it is a way for NBA talent evaluators to hide behind the numbers. Statistics never tell the whole story of a team or a player.
Today, LeGree is way off base in his Joe Johnson analysis. Johnson, not the Atlanta Hawks, should be wary of signing an extension. A big part of negotiating is trying to think like your adversary. Take a trip with me inside the mind of Joe Johnson.
If I am Joe Johnson…
…I figure that the Hawks simply have to find a way to work out a contract extension for me. A five-year, $75 million deal seems like a bunch of money, but it really is not for someone with my unique skill set. The only reason I can think of for me not to play out this contract and become an unrestricted free agent is the risk of injury.
…I would hope that Atlanta Hawks GM Rick Sund gets creative with an offer. The guaranteed $75 million bothers me much less than the five-years. Would I consider a shorter extension for yearly raises? Is a three-year deal worth $50 million more palatable to me? Maybe, I would accept a two-year extension with a player option and a trade kicker. That kind of deal gives both sides flexibility without mortgaging my future or the Hawks’ future.
…I have to wonder what more I need to do to demand the respect of Hawks fans. In the two biggest games in the past decade of Hawks history, I carried the team to wins. I took overthe fourth quarter of Game 6 versus the Celtics in Round 1 of the 2009 playoffs. Hawks fans were dancing in the streets and high-fiving each other outside of Philips Arena.
(Page 2 of 2)
Then, this year in Game 7 against the Heat, I scored, rebounded, hit big shots, and created for my teammates. I was the best all-around player on the court. We won a playoff series in a Game 7 for Pete’s sake!
…I do not see another All-Star on the roster in 2009-2010. Will Al Horford be in better shape this year? Can Horford be a consistent double figure scorer and more importantly a double figure rebounder?
…I would be thinking about whether or not Atlanta can compete for an NBA championship in the next five years.
…I do not see how the Hawks are going to win with only a three man front court rotation. Al Horford and Josh Smith are too small for their starting positions.
…I would be wondering if Josh Smith is ever going to mature and become an All-Star player. Plus, I have to deal with this guy playing hard one night a week.
…I look at the roster and realize that again this year I am going to have to guard the other team’s best perimeter player in every close game. Jeff Teague and Mike Bibby are not guarding Kobe, Hedo, or Vince Carter in crunch time.
Marvin Williams can guard someone, you say? Yes, he can if he plays in the big games. A 23-year-old guys with back problems that walks like he is a 49-year-old cab driver worries me.
…I might tell my agent that Dwayne Wade and Lebron are going to re-sign with their teams. Kobe is going to stay with the Lakers. Chris Bosh will leave Toronto, but he is going to Miami or Cleveland for less money to play with one of these other stars. The summer of 2010 might end up being the summer of Joe Johnson.
Interesting collection of thoughts, and every single one of them has been voiced by people on this blog.
Anakin Joe
August 6th, 2009
11:43 am
Ray, my bad… he IS Mr. Microsoft (co-founder with Bill Gates) and NOT Mr. Apple. Paul Allen… also owns Charter Cable (which I think is in bankruptcy).
Big Ray
August 6th, 2009
11:53 am
Astro Joe,
Hell, I didn’t know either way, so you got me. Dang, his cable company is in bankrupty? Maybe all those sill-but-funny DirecTV commercials are a true depiction of how cable companies think, after all. Heh heh heh!
Bankruptcy never stopped Donald Trump. No sympathy for Mr. Co-Microsoft from me….
The Truth
August 6th, 2009
12:23 pm
Ray,
This writer Jack Bender is introducing another aspect to the drama that Sund is creating with inactions on the frontline. By not closing deals of additional frontline help, Sund maybe raising question-marks in Joe’s mind about the seriousness of management to winning at the next level. Al Hortford may also have these same thoughts as well. His contract is coming up for review soon. Forget about this writer thoughtful insight, the Hawks problems are so obvious no-doubt Stevie Wonder can see them as well.
RealSquawk
August 6th, 2009
12:35 pm
If that is how Joe Johnson is thinking then he can leave, but not before i get something in return.
Mystikal
August 6th, 2009
12:45 pm
Estimated Top 20 players (no order)
Kobe, Lebron, Dwade, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitski, Deron Williams, Carmelo Anthony, Paul Pierce, Joe Johnson, Steve Nash, Brandon Roy, Chauncey Billups, Chris Bosh, Tony Parker, Amare Stoudamire, Paul Gasol, Kevin Durant
Next five:
Derrick Rose, Carlos Boozer, Danny Granger, Josh Smith, Devin Harris
Out Due to Injury:
Yao Ming (top 15 healthy), Gilbert Arenas, Al Jefferson, Manu Ginobli, T-mac, Jermaine O’neal, Elton Brand
Out Due to Age:
Shaq, Ray Allen, Baron Davis, Allen Iverson
Daniel
August 6th, 2009
12:51 pm
good list Mystikal- just to quibble with you. I don’t know that I would put Ray Allen on the age list just yet. Although you may be right. I think Devin Harris is closer to top 20 and Amare Stoudemire is less than. You have to remember his injuries both to his knee and eyes.
Daniel
August 6th, 2009
12:52 pm
two more things- I definitely think Harris is better than Durant (at this point in their careers). I am also not sure that KG is still going to be a top 20 player.
Big Ray
August 6th, 2009
12:53 pm
Truth,
This is what I said: “Interesting collection of thoughts, and every single one of them has been voiced by people on this blog.”
Translation: This guy didn’t say anything we haven’t brought up on this blog already. Sounds to me like you are repeating what I just said.
By the way, I’m not keen on laying this “drama” solely at Sund’s feet. He is the GM, so he gets to take the heat for anything that’s done, but I contend that the budget is set by his bosses. As much as that gets said, I think people fail to realize that this places more limitations on what can be done than is obvious. This team is and has been built around guards first and foremost. Billy drafted a bunch of forwards, yeah. But the money has been spent on guards for the most part. Seriously, compare what we’ve spent on guards in free agency vs what we’ve spent on forwards/centers. And this has spanned over the course of two different GMs. Take it for what it is….
Realsquawk,
Heard that. This is why I say “signing” him is important. Not necessarily “keeping” him. Asset management comes first. The gooey, fluffy, sentimental feelings have to take a back seat, in my opinion.