Extension talks for Joe

Joe Johnson in a Hawks uniform for a few more years sounds pretty good to most folks. The Hawks are talking to Johnson's camp about an extension.

HAWKSVILLE - Might the Hawks be interested in keeping captain and All-Star Joe Johnson off of the robust free agent market of 2010?

It seems so.

Multiple sources have confirmed that Hawks general manager Rick Sund is on an extended trip to the left coast, and part of his itinerary includes time in Los Angeles for face-to-face talks about a contract extension with Johnson’s camp (I mentioned this on Twitter late last night after hearing for sure that this was going on). A three-time All-Star, Johnson is heading into the final year of the five-year, $70 million deal he signed in August 2005 (which if traced back, you will realize was the rebirth of the franchise that has since made the playoffs in back-to-back years).

With superstars LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh headlining next summer’s free agent crop, several teams are lining up to be major players. And that means more competition for the Hawks, were they to let Johnson get to next summer as an unrestricted free agent.

There’s plenty of time for these talks to progress, training camp is still nearly two months away. Just knowing that they are talking, though, is a good sign that the Hawks plan on taking a proactive approach where JJ is concerned. Stay tuned for more details in the coming weeks.

Speaking of training camp, it appears blog-fav/road grader Garret Siler is headed back to the city for training camp, per our friends at the Augusta Chronicle. The big fella had a good showing at the Hawks’ rookie/free agent mini-camp last month. He was mulling training camp invite offers from both the Hawks and Minnesota, but the Timberwolves’ pursuit of Ryan Hollins helped make his decision a little easier.

The need for a veteran big like Joe Smith remains, but at least we know there will at least one true “big man” (6-11 or taller and at least 270 pounds) in camp along with Zaza Pachulia.

502 comments Add your comment

Anakin Joe

August 5th, 2009
3:23 pm

cp, I tend to agree with you. Maybe a 3 year extension with a player option for the 4th year. Something about 5 years guaranteed scares me. If he demanded a 5th year, I would make it a team option.

RandMo is like a college senior, we’ve seen enough of him to know his limitations. Siler is like a college freshmen, his limitations may be identical to the senior but we believe that he is young enough to improve. And we all know, that under-classmen are usually drafted ahead of upper-classmen (in the NBA).

realsquawk

August 5th, 2009
3:25 pm

daniel,

i got it, but when we go up against shaq and we don’t have some big mammoth of a center to pick up some fouls simply becauase randolph is to soft and zaza and al horford shouldn’t have to play that role then what are you going to be asking for? a big right, with no apparent skill other than to take up space. again or offense and defense does not ask for the reserves to do anymore than take up space and play hard.

he could play two minutes and be an improvement over what we are getting cause there is no one there.

and had he got picked fifth like someone else we know would you be talking about his lack of contribution this upcoming year or the team making a mistake. Teams make mistakes. Ben Wallace, Bruce Bowen, Gilbert Arenas, Micheal Redd, Ramon Sessions, Darko Milicic, Marcin gortat, Kwame Brown!!!

He doesn’t even half to be as bad as any of those guys to contribute as the 4th big option on our team.

Sautee

August 5th, 2009
3:40 pm

Yupperz,

Stop stealing my posts!

I’m sure that Astro Joe KNEW that I was the original poster of that thought.

Or did you get “reframed” yourself?

Anakin Joe

August 5th, 2009
4:06 pm

Sautee, I saw your post from the last blog, figured that a prankster was at works on this one. I don’t have the secret-decoder ring like Ray.

James

August 5th, 2009
4:09 pm

Did anyone other than me see Joe Johnson give up and quit during the Cleveland series play off series.If he is not scoring and he is a great scorer,he brings nothing to floor.At least if he were a team leader I could see keeping him around.He just lost me during the play offs.

Daniel

August 5th, 2009
4:10 pm

realsqauwk- I am not trying to beat a dead horse, but if you think 2-3 minutes a game or the occassional 10 min with 3-4 fouls and a rebound is any kind of contribution, then you are right.
But seriously asking you again, if you think that just the pure fact that he is big is enough to match up against D. Howard or Shaq, even for 8-10 minutes a game. Then why has no other team in the league seen that TWICE!

RMan

August 5th, 2009
4:19 pm

With many bloggers wondering who Josh is training with over the summer, or what moves RandMo is trying to learn, or what is Marvin doing to toughen up, etc, etc, why is no one wondering about what Coach W is doing to “improve his game”? How is he spending his summer? Who’s brains are he picking for ideas on better play calling, or improved strategies to use his limited front court resources. What’s he doing to assess his current coaching staff or adding/subtracting from them to help take the next step in the Division? Who’s he practicing with to get better, what’s he studying, what new wrinkles can we hope to see in our offense or defense? I’m not knocking him, but enquiring minds would like to know…

Mike is back

August 5th, 2009
4:24 pm

RMan , excellent point…at the very lease…I hope Sund and ASG are asking those question,”Right!!”

bigdave

August 5th, 2009
4:41 pm

according to ESPN raido…

Blazers and Roy close to an 82 mil over 5 year extension…

id like to see Joe get something comparable…

Anakin Joe

August 5th, 2009
4:42 pm

RMan, I agree. I am hoping that Woody has studied the Hawks season and the game plan of more successful coaches over the summer. And hopefully, he has had a chance to spend some face time with coaching mentors, innovators, etc. I wish that he and Larry Drew (since they both have links to the Kings franchise) could gain some insight into the offense that Bibby used to run with C-Webb, Peja, Vlade, etc. Wishful thinking, I’m sure.

Mike B.

August 5th, 2009
4:45 pm

Woody is picking Larry Brown’s mind. Talking about the fluid offensive days in Philidelphia. Iso Joe…I mean ISO AI at it’s finest.

Anakin Joe

August 5th, 2009
5:05 pm

Mike B., the funny thing is that the “offensive coordinator” on Brown’s staff was John Kuester… now with the Pistons. So they will likely un iso Rip, iso Ben Gordon and iso Stuckey a few times a game.

Mitun

August 5th, 2009
5:11 pm

whats the latest on Marvin?

Sautee

August 5th, 2009
5:17 pm

big dave,

Roy is almost 3 years younger than Joe (2 yrs, 11 mos.). The idea of a 5 year contract for JJ scares the heck out of me. It ALREADY looks as if he’s breaking down at 28. What will he look like at 33?

I say 3 years with a team option for a 4th. And for no more than he’s making now (which is actually a little high for his production).

Something like 3 for $43.5M seems BETTER than fair in this market. After all, Bibby took a 67% pay cut.

chad

August 5th, 2009
5:24 pm

NO!!! Please don’t make the fans suffer another season of watching Joe ‘dribble dribble dribble’. The guy shows no emotion and is not a leader!

Sautee

August 5th, 2009
5:32 pm

One caveat about re-signing JJ. He MUST begin to trust his young frontcourt or we will have MAJOR chemistry problems. These are no longer the “wet behind the ears youngun’s” that he had to hold together from a few years past.

If I were Sund, I’d HAVE to ask him if he’s ready and willing for a somewhat smaller role before committing millions long term. Without the continued growth of the frontcourt, (barring a major trade) we can NOT compete for a ring.

wordsmithtom

August 5th, 2009
5:37 pm

Silo to join vet camp. Coming in a couple weeks early, according to the Augusta News…. That suggests Hawk mgt wants to do some development to this obvious project. Project or not; no way Solo gave you squat against Shaq. If the kid, and he hasn’t played that much organized ball, is willing to hustle, then he has value simply as a “hack a Shaq” and as a spaceeater for the vets to have to work around. Being hungry, and he showed he is willing to work by his summer efforts, Silo could be more valuable than people give him credit.

My hope: they work him hard during camp; let him sit on the bench for a couple of months to get a feel of NBA action first hand…then go to developmental league to play till spring. Bring him back come March for a little “Hack a Shaq” fun and games. Bet, he would relish the opportunity and if he keeps working, who knows what his real upside is? If nothing else, he shows RandMo how to work and kicks his can during practice.

I’m reminded how NBA teams used to draft 5-6 rounds. Those picked after round 2 didn’t have a snowflake’s chance in hell. These days, so many underclassmen muddy the waters for the first 2 rounds. Silo didn’t get drafted. That’s no biggy to me. He’s big. He has a positive attitude. If he works hard, he’s more of a center prospect than Solo ever was.

doc

August 5th, 2009
5:42 pm

umm i was thinking more along 4 and 50 to 58 range.

Sautee

August 5th, 2009
5:46 pm

doc,

Are you saying that I’m high? ;-)

tbhawksfan

August 5th, 2009
5:47 pm

Sautee; I’m with you. JJ needs to change his attitude and the Hawks offense will follow.

Don’t see JJ signing a three year deal. If we can get JJ to sign a fairly attractive deal (Bibby, Zaza, MW), we will be in very good trade position going into the future.

Big Ray

August 5th, 2009
5:48 pm

Astro Joe,

I don’t remember asking you a question. Hope that “answer” satisfied somebody else. As for the secret decoder ring, I’m not sure what you’re talking about. This isn’t my blog, and I get spoofed just like anybody else.

Anything else?

bigdave

August 5th, 2009
5:55 pm

Sautee…

in my opinion… Joe finishes his career here… i cant say that he looks as if he’s breaking down. truthfully he played through injury last season, a pro’s pro and gives you nothing but production. if his head coach stops putting him through “Iron Man” competition year after year he’ll be fine. even at 33 chances are you get a savvy vet who probably improves from 3 and develops a post up game. 33 isnt old given his skill set and versatility. you either keep him here or low ball him and let him go be Pippen… i like Joe with our improving roster…

bigdave

August 5th, 2009
5:56 pm

in my opinion you have to offer Joe a max contract…

bigdave

August 5th, 2009
6:01 pm

question…

given “what we do here” (a Michael Woodson staple) who do you replace Joe with to either elevate or continue the growth of our team? to me its more of what he means to our team vs relative value. chemistry is very important here…

jhan

August 5th, 2009
6:13 pm

I don’t think now is the time to let Joe leave. We’re finally in a good spot with talent & chemistry. I can’t see any feasible way to replace Joe & not take several steps back. The Hawks are a team of young veterans now – let them play together & continue to grow.

I think Joe is worth 5/$75-$80M. I don’t think you could replace him for less.

Sautee

August 5th, 2009
6:14 pm

Chemistry.

Exactly what I’m worried about. For the last few years the team has (understandably, and correctly) bowed to Joe but you could see some chafing last year. And Joe didn’t help by continually lapsing into pounding the ball, watching a double team, and asking a teammate to bail him out at the end of the shot clock.

If you give Joe a max contract, and he only performs to last year’s level, will that sit well in the locker room? And would we as fans think that Sund was doing a good job?

Chemistry. My biggest offseason worry.

I’m sorry big dave but I’ll have to disagree on the max contract. To me, a max player is one who potentially could take you to the Finals on his own.

Shaq (in his prime), Kobe, Duncan, KG. Joe is very good but not on THAT list.

bigdave

August 5th, 2009
6:44 pm

Sautee… this man has earned 18-19 mil/yr…

blame “pounding” on stagnant offensive sets where a head coach chooses and favors having thoroughbred athletes stand and watch each other… that has nothing to do with Joe Johnson. does it not compute that the reason Joe can see double and triple teams on a regular is b/c of the predictability of where the double man’s assignment will be.. we lack creativity thats not Joe’s fault… what this team could do under new offensive coordination is a wet dream… Geesh… ad talents like Mal’ and Teague into the fold… we have fire power… and ball handlers and shooters… make em pay..

bigdave

August 5th, 2009
7:03 pm

correction: 17+ mil/yr

18-19 thats ignorant money…

howie

August 5th, 2009
7:11 pm

I agree with Mike…going from an to a 10 player rotation will pay off in more wins and a deeper run in the playoffs.

This team has good chemistry…keep it going!

chad

August 5th, 2009
7:37 pm

What about Joe Johnson’s game says he is worth anything over 10 million? Joe can NOT be the man. Joe is an EXCELLENT role-player, but he is not a #1.

I try not to be too harsh on the Hawks players because Woodson’s offense is so predictable and complacent.

However, if Joe Johnson gets signed to a long-term deal I will throw up in my mouth. And I hate throwing up in my mouth.

One sidenote, if the Hawks can sign Johnson for a good price, I am more than happy to ’sign-n-trade’. Johnson sees so many minutes and countless ‘isolation’ calls from Woody his value around the league is still high because he puts up numbers.

Seeing we have 1 TNT game and 3 ESPN games this year, time is of the essence.

Joe Johnson is not a number one, and should be be payed as a number one.

Anakin Joe

August 5th, 2009
7:38 pm

Ray, I stand corrected.

Sautee

August 5th, 2009
8:01 pm

big dave,

Do you SERIOUSLY think that he deserves a raise and a hefty one at that?

Think about the fact that the owners KNOW that revenues will likely be down again this year. And that his teammates have resigned for lower than they hoped because of the state of the economy.

You never answered my question. If he gets max money, but performs like he did this year, do you think all will be well in the locker room?

If you pay him 17+ does it jeopordize re-signing Horford ????

I KNOW you’re a big JJ fan, but would you diminish the rest of the team to see him paid as much as YOU think he’s worth?

I’m hoping that he’ll fall in line with his teammates and take a fair salary that allows flexibility to keep adding needed pieces. At 17+M, I don’t think we’d be so flexible. And you can forget BASG going into Luxury Tax land.

mrHonline

August 5th, 2009
8:32 pm

Putting aside issues of his “worth,”Joe’s market value is in the $16-$18M per season range. You either pay him that, or you plan to rebuild. There is no middle ground.

Forget the illusions that he can be signed to a 3 or 4-year deal. He will get offers similar to the one that Brandon Roy just signed – five years, $80M. There’s a great chance that a team will strike out on its 2010 Plan A and go fishing in JJ’s neck of the woods with a $100M offer.

You sign him to a five-year extension worth something reasonably close to what Roy just got and pat yourself on the back.

O'Brien

August 5th, 2009
8:37 pm

Bibby took a huge paycut. But lets face it. Bibby’s game is on the decline, and he is 31. JJ is only 28, and he is arguably a top 5 SG. And if Woody knew how to use him correctly, JJ could have even better numbers with less minutes played.

Personally, I would love to see JJ sign a 3 year extension ($45 mil) with 4th year optional. After all, the salary cap will shrink next year, and revenue might be on the decline. I just dont think 3 years, $45-$48 mil will be enough, given the fact that some team might overpay for JJ when they miss out on Wade/Lebron/Bosh etc.

I can see JJ’s agents saying Roy got 5 years, $82 mil, so why can’t JJ get 5 years, $80 mil. And the Hawks cannot afford to lose JJ. After all we gave up for him (2 #1 picks and Boris Diaw), not to mention the ownership battle. All because of JJ. And we’ve come too far to turn back or start over with somebody else.

Samuel

August 5th, 2009
8:49 pm

I think it is good that we are working on an extension for JJ. He is a very good player but not worth a max contract IMO. He has been the building block for our success but there are other JJs out there.

He should be happy with about the same money he’s getting right now. If not, let him go and bring in two really good players in his place.

Again, you can blame Woody all you want but I have witnessed on many occasions JJ hold the ball while players were open. No excuse for that. I have also seen where we can score and win without him. He is a good player but not Irreplaceable.

I also have no idea what we are waiting on to sign Siler. Certainly no other 7′ 300+ guys out there. At the very least, he can give you Solo numbers.

Melvin

August 5th, 2009
8:51 pm

Looking at the Hawks schedule in dept. After the 1st 2 home games (Indy and Wiz), the Hawks go on a 3 game west coast trip (LA,Port,SAC) then fly back to Charlotte (with 1 day of rest) for a back to back with the Bobcats and Nuggets at home. Who in the heck make these schedules??? It would be nice if they can finished 5-2 or better….

Sautee

August 5th, 2009
8:52 pm

Samuel,

co-sign

Samuel

August 5th, 2009
9:35 pm

I also don’t believe anybody should get a 5 year contract. Anything can happen. I know it’s the nature of the ball game but I wouldn’t do it. Too much bad can happen. Offer him three years max.

The Truth

August 5th, 2009
9:38 pm

I’m going to be more neutral on the JJ topic and just asked a question; if not Joe, then who? What star player that is available that could take Joe’s place and wants to play in the ATL? If we are currently struggling to find a backup PF player to come join the Hawks, how in the world could we convince a “real superstar” to fill Joe’s shoe as an upgrade? The assumption is, after the likes of Wade, Bosh, etc are off the table; Joe will be the constellation prize. So, if we lose the constellation prize, we will be left without a star player. Let’s stop dreaming; real superstars are usually not acquired via FA, they are usually drafted. So, unless we fall back into hard-times, we will not see the top lottery for some time as it appears that we are keeping our core team together and compete. In such case, acquiring the next superstar via the draft might be beyond our reach.

It’s seems, the only way this could be a bad deal is that we pay too much for Joe’s services. Clearly for the right price and the right supporting cast, this could be a viable option.

blue hawk

August 5th, 2009
9:46 pm

Is Zaza Pachulia good enough to become a Rony Seikaly type of starter at center?

If he is, then maybe it’s worth a try. Maybe we can start him at Center on some nights at least.

I see Al Horford more of a Buck Williams, Charles Oakley, Antonio Davis type of enforcer. Really a Power Forward playing Center at times.

Josh seems to remind me of Xavier McDaniel and Orlando Woolridge tweener, much better than the two though, and with more athleticism and hops of course.

realsquawk

August 5th, 2009
10:08 pm

bigdave,

not say he isn’t worth it, but i would like him to sign for cheaper.

Big Ray

August 5th, 2009
10:14 pm

What the hell ever, man. Just sign the guy.

Melvin

August 5th, 2009
10:27 pm

Amen, Big Ray. Some folks act let they have to pay the man (and others) out of their own pocket….

Melvin

August 5th, 2009
10:31 pm

Amen, Big Ray. Some folks act like they have to pay the man (and others) out of their own pocket….

Samuel

August 5th, 2009
10:46 pm

To me a player should somewhat justify his money with “Star Power”. JJ doesn’t have that. JJ doesn’t put enough ass_s in the seats or sell enough jerseys to demand Max Money. That is the difference in an “All Star” and a Superstar.

realsquawk

August 5th, 2009
10:47 pm

yeah pay him as much as you want. I am not saying its going to hurt me either way. win signing him to max money and getting him more rest still doesn’t improve his playoff performance and all we have to look forward to is regular season joe johnson and you guys want to scream and holla about he isn’t worth what he is getting paid and we can’t trade him and we can’t sign anybody else to help us out because we now found ourselves in the luxury tax “with a financially strapped organization” then you say just sign the guy. amen sign eddy curry to the money he wants cause its what he is worth it and he is the only big free agent who will come visit us.

and yes when those ticket prices go up and i can’t afford to see my regular season joe play like crap in the playoffs it will be out of my pocket.

realsquawk

August 5th, 2009
10:54 pm

better yet gilbert arenas yeah lets sign him because he will keep fans in the stands whether he is playing or not.

bigdave

August 5th, 2009
11:01 pm

“You never answered my question. If he gets max money, but performs like he did this year, do you think all will be well in the locker room?”

first id have to ask you what about Joe’s performance this year do you believe was just horrible…? for a player seeing double and triple teams for most of the 39.5 minutes he is on the floor he still managed to put up 21.4ppg 5.8ast avgs. how selfish do you think our team is Sautee? do you not think his teammates understand what he is asked to do on the floor? the question is who improves around Joe Johnson this year? his locker room should ask what can they do as an individual player to take the burden off of Joe… if he gives at least last years production and his teammates show improve in their individual games we should be hell. you must remember the reason Joe Johnson sees double and triple teams is because he is one of the more lethal 1 on 1 covers in the league…

for yall that continue to ignore our offensive coaching and how it handicaps our performance you’re kiddding yourself. Joe Johnson cant make every pass out of an iso set just because a man for a period of time became open… why arent we constantly open flashing guys… screening to open up teammates. why is our floor spacing horrific.. i dont know…? we cant leave these decisions up to Bibby.. he rarely plays the point anyway… we do the same things every possession up the floor. playoff teams, whom are usually good defensive teams, know whats coming as if they left the huddle. yet, we have a player who never calls out coaches, teammates, etc. or draw negative, attention to himself. get the man signed… represents the Hawk label well and has stupid game. i mean remedial…

though id like Joe for 5 years i only said his contract should be comparable to that of Roy.. at least figure wise…

bigdave

August 5th, 2009
11:05 pm

Mystikal

August 5th, 2009
11:11 pm

I think this is a silly debate. There is no question we should resign Joe. I made comment earlier along what Truth stated above, “Who else are we going to get?” No Joe is not Lebron, Kobe, or Dwade and that is why we are not paying him 120 to 140 million. Paying him 75 to 80 million is a great price for him. The problem going forward is that we have to much money tied up in the backcourt. For this team to take it to another level we have to establish an inside game. That’s why I’m more concerned that we get Al Horford locked up when the time comes. And I’ll say it now, someone is going to have to go. If we can keep it moving til Crawford or Bibby’s deal runs out than it’s all good. If not though we may have to move Marv or somebody. We have been successful these past two years running and gunning with our guard oriented offense, but to get to that next level we need some beasts in the middle. I did not foresee things playing out the way they did this summer. I figured we would lose Marvin and hopefully get some players/picks in return. Anyway, I hope Al and Josh have been working on their inside game. If we can get a post game established, everyone will benefit. It will keep defenses more honest (no more ISO Joe), it will create space for guards to penetrate, and we can be dangerous in the half court as well as fastbreak. Yeah yeah, but first things first get JJ looked up sooner than later.