Extension talks for Joe
Joe Johnson in a Hawks uniform for a few more years sounds pretty good to most folks. The Hawks are talking to Johnson's camp about an extension.
HAWKSVILLE - Might the Hawks be interested in keeping captain and All-Star Joe Johnson off of the robust free agent market of 2010?
It seems so.
Multiple sources have confirmed that Hawks general manager Rick Sund is on an extended trip to the left coast, and part of his itinerary includes time in Los Angeles for face-to-face talks about a contract extension with Johnson’s camp (I mentioned this on Twitter late last night after hearing for sure that this was going on). A three-time All-Star, Johnson is heading into the final year of the five-year, $70 million deal he signed in August 2005 (which if traced back, you will realize was the rebirth of the franchise that has since made the playoffs in back-to-back years).
With superstars LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh headlining next summer’s free agent crop, several teams are lining up to be major players. And that means more competition for the Hawks, were they to let Johnson get to next summer as an unrestricted free agent.
There’s plenty of time for these talks to progress, training camp is still nearly two months away. Just knowing that they are talking, though, is a good sign that the Hawks plan on taking a proactive approach where JJ is concerned. Stay tuned for more details in the coming weeks.
Speaking of training camp, it appears blog-fav/road grader Garret Siler is headed back to the city for training camp, per our friends at the Augusta Chronicle. The big fella had a good showing at the Hawks’ rookie/free agent mini-camp last month. He was mulling training camp invite offers from both the Hawks and Minnesota, but the Timberwolves’ pursuit of Ryan Hollins helped make his decision a little easier.
The need for a veteran big like Joe Smith remains, but at least we know there will at least one true “big man” (6-11 or taller and at least 270 pounds) in camp along with Zaza Pachulia.
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502 comments Add your comment
Sam from the Swats
August 9th, 2009
8:54 pm
Anakin Joe, I totally understand what you’re saying. What I don’t understand is when we drafted Josh at 17, he was an additional piece with Marvin. I understand Josh can drive you crazy sometimes, but people on here give him a hard time as if he was the lottery #2 pick. That guy gives you multiple stat production in points, rebounds, blocks, and steals. The offense looked pathetic all year because Woody’s offensive sets are horrible. I think we will be good again, but we won’t go to the Finals unless we make some moves for some big guys, and other teams have injuries.
niremetal
August 9th, 2009
8:54 pm
I can’t believe I’m gonna say this, but….co-sign Anakin Joe
Doug
August 9th, 2009
8:58 pm
Sam: Marvin is vastly underrated by folks like you…no he is not th eplayer Chris Paul or Deron Williams is…yes he needs to be more assertive…but to a degree how can he be when there are times when he will not TOUCH the ball for multiple trips? He has become…by far…their best perimeter defender…by far…he stretches the defense and is developing an attack the basket ability…and by all accounts is a great teammate…as has been stated to you he was not offered a contract because EVERYONE…but you,,,knew it would be matched. Now as to Josh…well I think there was much more wonderment as to whether or not he would match…being his first summer with the Hawks…but when he matched within several hours I think a message was sent to the rest of the league…Marvin will be the most improved Hawk this year…but will never do enough to not be a “clown”??? in your eyes
The Truth
August 9th, 2009
9:15 pm
Regarding Joe Smith, I previously wrote that it is highly likely that he will sign with the Cavs since they are no longer perusing Leon Powe. However, after further review and since I have nothing else to write about, there still might be a slim chance he still could sign with the Hawks. Since Lebron has publicly stated that he will keep his options open and explore the FA market, he might have inadvertently created an opportunity for the Hawks to sign Joe Smith. I say that because, if you don’t know it by now, the Cavs are comfortably into L. Tax land at nearly 80M including Ilqaukas 11.5M option. If they sign Joe Smith now, they will pay twice what the Hawks would pay for him (for the same money) is discouraging fact number 1. In other words, for example, a 2.3M deal this year becomes really a 4.6M deal (ouch!). If they are still in L. tax next year which is likely given their roster picture, the 2.3M deal becomes 9.2M over two years (awful ouch!) for a projected 36 year old (third option) PF. Fact number 2: since Lebron will be a FA next year, they must plan now to be extremely flexible with their roster salary to make room for the Max-dollar offered to him next year. Given further decline in the salary cap next year, surely they wouldn’t want to commit more L. Tax dollars now with the expected financial challenge coming from Lebron next year. However, if the Cavs owners aren’t bothered in L. Tax land now and have a bottomless pit of money, then maybe the additional tax doesn’t matter to them. We shall see.
Truth-serum
August 9th, 2009
9:21 pm
Doug
August 9th, 2009
12:21 pm
Caps button is on lower left–Michael Vick is gone….
that would be the control button abbreviated Ctrl..
I agee with you. Michael Vick is a great talent.
I also agree to disagree with you.
You cant have it both ways. You claim the falcons have a sorry corps of receivers and that s the reason the falcons are con artist… Vick only had one real reciever and that was his tight end, who never failed.
Either way I like you, wish Vick well.
Ken Strickland
August 9th, 2009:31 pm
You reap what you sow Mr face of a large butt!
niremetal
August 9th, 2009
12:43 pm
I dont think Mr Woodson is listening. Hes had a great year and is feeling good about things. Hes had the coaches poll rank him as the number 9 coach in the NBA (coach of the year)and hes had ESPN and TNT both singing his praises. Charles Barkley and Kenny Smith said he is a good coach, the Hawks are winning and on the rise, the fans are loving it and the city is behind the team… so no, I dont think hes listening to you or Ken, well for that much, I dont think anyone is listening to you or Ken. Hate has a way of turning people off.
Anakin Joe
August 9th, 2009
9:22 pm
Sam, Smith is making around $11M per year and Marvin is making around $7.5M per year. Maybe it’s just me, but I think that the time has come to officially stop looking at their draft position. “The market has spoken” and has declared that Josh is about 40% more valuable than Marvin. Their draft slot is outdated data. Once a player reaches their second contract, I think draft selection becomes as meaningful as their high school scoring average.
Sam from the Swats
August 9th, 2009
9:42 pm
Doug, our best perimeter defender is Joe Johnson. Are you out of your mind? Marvin is our best perimeter defender? He is developing drive to the basket ability? The dude trips and falls and gets his layups blocked continuously. WHAT GAMES ARE YOU GUYS WATCHING?!!!!! Hopefully, he improves and doesn’t get hurt. He hasn’t played a full year without getting hurt. Plus Doug, everyone knew Josh Smith’s contract would be matched to idiot. He was actually offered one though.
Anakin Joe,
That is a perfect statement. Josh has more market value. So that is why everyone wants him traded. Interesting..
Doug
August 9th, 2009
10:03 pm
Sam: JJ is our best perimeter defender???? Who guards Lebron? Paul Pierce??? Granger??? It is Marvin. He is longer….just as strong…and actually cares about guarding. You cannot find a NBA scout or personnel guy that thinks…any longer…that Joe Johnson is a better perimeter defender thatn Marvin. Simply is a fact. It may have alot to do with the burden that JJ has(carries) on the offensive end but you are simply a Joe homer to think or contend otherwise. Marvin does trip…he does get more blocked than he should…but he is also “developing” a put it on the floor game…witness his nice running hook developed last year…elevates well…good touch…strong. That move did not exist for him until last year. I understand that Josh has more market value…never contended otherwise…and am not one who is calling for him to be traded. I simply think there are ALSO other factors, previously mentioned, that went in to his being offerred a contract and Marvin not.
Anakin Joe
August 9th, 2009
10:09 pm
Ramon, I don’t disagree with you, I would like the Hawks (and Joe) to take better advantage of available fast break opportunities. But that would be a subset of my overall “speech ad nauseum” if I were Woody… “Attack the Rim”. “Attack the Rim”. “Hey you, with the ball… ATTACK THE RIM”.
Sam, most folk who want to rade him believe that he is the sole way to acquire a center. I’m fairly sure that if we could steal a good center for Mo Evans, folk would be clamoring for that deal. And Marvin’s contract is in BYC status until a year from now, so could we get a good center for a trade value of less than $4M? Of course not.
Anakin Joe
August 9th, 2009
10:39 pm
Did you hear me? ATTACK THE RIM Dammit!
Joe's place Joe speaking
August 9th, 2009
10:42 pm
Per Sekou Smith story: One of the first to come in will be Augusta State 7-footer Garret Siler. The 305-pound Siler attended the Hawks’ rookie/free agent mini-camp last month and made an impression. He has already been added to the training roster. Veteran center Jason Collins, another 7-footer, is also expected in for a look as early as this week.
Johan Petro, Stromile Swift and Courtney Sims are other names believed to be on the Hawks’ radar.
“We’ve got several guys we’re going to take a closer look at,” he said. “We have to find some answers, though, because right now we’re not where we need to be.”
UGA
August 9th, 2009
10:44 pm
Not that there is that much left in Free Agency, from the list of names in the last article (Swift, etc.)
Are we not interested in at least Mikki Moore or Brian Skinner over someone like Stromile Swift??
Also, if one looks at the Bucks roster or the Nets, they have toooooo many BIGS and I’m sure would love to let one go to save cap room. Based on some of the odd trades over the summer, I’m sure we could snaggle away a Kurt Thomas or Francisco Elson or an Eduardo Najera for a Morris contract, a 2nd rounder or cash.
Joe's place Joe speaking
August 9th, 2009
10:45 pm
Thanks. But Unless you want me to start talking and befriending Wallace and Kimi then leave my mother alone!!!!
UGA
August 9th, 2009
10:45 pm
IF we do get Joe Smith, I have no problem adding Collins to our roster.
Stating the Obvious
August 9th, 2009
11:04 pm
Continuing the running tally:
“Sam” and “Rod” are the only “people” who still talk(s) about Marvin tripping and falling when he drives.
Ken Strickland
August 9th, 2009
11:15 pm
RAMON-In JJ’s defense, when you’ve annually finished 1st or 2nd in mins played, and know you’re likely going to lead the NBA in mins played again, you naturally try to pace yourself. That is, if you’re smart.
I don’t understand the reluctance in signing OHunter. It’s not like he’s an unknown comodity, and Woodson seems to think a lot of him. With our starting lineup, along with Zaza, Morris, Evans, Teague and Crawford already under contract, we have only 2 open roster spots. If we sign Joe Smith, who gets the final spot? Will it be a PF like OHunter or a center like Siler? My guess is Siler, since JSmith can play PF and some center.
I don’t know, but that would look like a pretty versatile bench, assuming it’s used properly, or at all.
niremetal
August 9th, 2009
11:24 pm
Ken,
Definitely agreed on Hunter. No need at all to string the dude out. And we’ll probably carry 13 guys under contract, which would point to us being able to add both Hunter and Siler. Only reason not to do it is if Sund has his eye on someone else for one of those roster spots (Korolev? a free agent not on the Blog Z radar?).
Ken Strickland
August 9th, 2009
11:40 pm
SAM-you claim Marvin stumbles and trips continueously when he drive to the basket. Well, he managed to stumble and trip his way to the FT line 4.5 times a gm, which is 3rd behind Smoove(5.2) and JJ(4.6), and they attempt more shots than he does. You might not like him, but don’t allow that to get in the way of the facts.
With last yrs emphasis on a continuously switching DEF, there’s much less emphasis on individual DEF. Whether Marvin or JJ is the better defender is a close call, but Bibby being the worst, now that’s a given.
Ariose
August 9th, 2009
11:43 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5UpQl18OOM WOW!!! John Wall Yams on Jerry Stackhouse!! I think it’s offically time for him to hang em’ up! LOL!! Stack got NO lift on that block attempt Hhehehe…
BTW,I have no problem w/smoove initiating the break. He’s converted more times than he’s lost the ball….espcially last season. I don’t think you guys have given Joshe enough credit. His handle has come a long way in the last five years.
Ariose
August 9th, 2009
11:58 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMkyp5KeJzs&feature=channel
LOL@ Ron Artest
Najeh Davenpoop
August 10th, 2009
12:02 am
This season needs to start already. Every time I come here it’s the same damn discussions that have been taking place for the last three months. Some people hating on Woodson, some hating on J-Smoove, some hating on Marvin, some being unrealistically optimistic, etc.
Ariose
August 10th, 2009
12:11 am
Does anyone think that RandMo can play the bakup PF spot? I think it would be an intersting experiment…..
Poop, yeah I had to sit that one out lol. They were writing Essays up there LOl!!!
Ariose
August 10th, 2009
12:14 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p73Olhdl0pQ
BOOOO!!!!!
MAARRRVINNSS!!! BETTTERR!!
cp
August 10th, 2009
12:23 am
We have no pf depth yet we have a guy in Hunter who everyone has said improved dramatically who is available and knows the system yet we have not offered the kid a contract. Stop wasting time and get this young guy signed. He works hard, doesn’t complain, and plays to his strengths.
Ariose
August 10th, 2009
12:30 am
Artest Gave out his # on twitter…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk6ttjjB9CI&feature=channel
niremetal
August 10th, 2009
12:36 am
Ariose,
Speedy did that awhile back. I was like “wha…?”
deep
August 10th, 2009
2:29 am
We need Joe Smith’s number….Ariose can you get us that?
Ramon
August 10th, 2009
3:57 am
Ken, I understand how one would feel that way. But I guess I believe if he put that extra energy in those plays, it would lead to big enough momentum swings, where he’d be able to rest more later. I understand the whole Crawford deal was basically so JJ could get more rest. And I hope more rest means more attacking.
Ken, have you notice how some people say because he plays 40+ minutes a game, its a good reason for him to only go 80-85% during the game. However, the same people (not saying you) criticize Smoove when he’s not playing ‘hard’ (even though Horford is the only player who arguably plays harder than Smoove on both ends).
Daniel
August 10th, 2009
8:34 am
Monday morning,
Braves playing well…yeah
Marvin’s deal is done….alright
No news on Joe Smith…..dang!
Najeh is right this season needs to get started. We are running out of things to discuss.
Ariose
August 10th, 2009
8:57 am
Check this out! lol
http://www.youtube.com/narrowworld
Deep, Im working on that right now hehehe…
G-Man
August 10th, 2009
8:57 am
OK, Here is something to discuss. If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it actually make a sound?
Daniel
August 10th, 2009
8:57 am
going back to read the posts from last night. Man, things get a little embarassing on here.
Truth-serum: I actually think people are overly critical of woodson and tend to defend him also. But dude you really need some help. Are you really calling names like on an elementary school playground?
Ariose
August 10th, 2009
8:59 am
Nire, Yeah Scie Law did that on his blog last season. It’s too much trouble if you ask me. Then you have to change your number and give the new one out to family and friends.
Or you could just have a fann phone # and a regular one…REALLY not worth it though…
newkid
August 10th, 2009
9:06 am
Will Sund view Woody as having strayed off the reservation with some of his observations in Sekou’s article? Will Sund see Woody’s comments as having weakened Sunds’ negotiating position – as it were – in the Joe Smith affair?
Ariose
August 10th, 2009
9:17 am
*Acie Law
Newkid, Good question. I think they’re probably in constant communication everyday trying to get FA’s here so I doubt it. But it’s a possibility.
Ariose
August 10th, 2009
9:19 am
Fans will never REALLY knowwhat goes on behied closed doors in the NBA. Or even in the Locker Rooms for that matter.
newkid
August 10th, 2009
9:42 am
On the other hand, could this have been contrived (by Woody and Sund) to publically stroke Joe Smith with the not-so-subtle observation that he’s by far the cream of the remaining crop, and there’s no other place in the NBA he’s likely to get as much meaningful court time as he would here, while still playing on a team likely to finish in the top 4 or 5 in either conference playoff picture?
Daniel
August 10th, 2009
9:46 am
newkid- I vote your second observation
Daniel
August 10th, 2009
9:48 am
I still think the issue is two years vs. a one year deal. We may have to give it to him to get him.
Anakin Joe
August 10th, 2009
9:50 am
When Sekou asked Woody if he is concerned with front court depth, Woody should have just pointed to his depth chart and said “Nuff said”. It would have been the shortest article in Sekou’s career.
Ariose
August 10th, 2009
9:54 am
Daniel, I Agree. Joe smith is up there in age(In basketball years of course) and he probably wans that one final contract, and he wants it to be a long and secure one. Thats why big Ben ditched the Pistons a few years back. More money elsewhere, and he had already won a title……but Joe Smith hasn’t hmmm….
Ariose
August 10th, 2009
9:57 am
LOL…I think most of you would be mad at Sekou if he posted a sentece long article hehehe…..
The Truth
August 10th, 2009
9:59 am
newkid
The answer to your question depends on whether Sund has thrown in the towel as viewed by Woody. If those are the signals from Sund, then perhaps Woody is just executing Plan B. However, if those are not the signals from Sund, then you make a valid point. One scenario in a Plan B PR-blitz is that it will demonstrate to Joe Smith agent a willingness to move on. One weakness in Joe Smith’s strategy is if both Hawks and the Cavs move on and he has no more suitors. The Cavs really can do without an expensive third option PF is perhaps the reason they have not made the deal happen by now. However, the more the Hawks retreat from pursuing Smith, the more it strengthens the Cavs negotiation hand with him.
This deal should have been made to order for Sund since the competing Cavs are in L Tax land and have acquired Moon to be their backup PF option. Enough said.
Big Ray
August 10th, 2009
10:54 am
Astro Joe,
Excellent point about our offense being better during the regular season, then falling apart in the playoffs and going right back to Joe. The $64,000 question (if you’re playing “The Weakest link” or some other similar gameshow) is “why?”
In the face of adversity or simply tougher-than-normal conditions, people tend to “rise to the occasion” less, and are “reduced to their level of training” more. Of course, that usually leads to another round of our usual blame game around here, but that can’t be helped. : )
OH, and you know Woody is just not that short-winded when he’s asked a question. Unless he’s being interviewed by Jeff Schultz….
By the way, I think you should make “ATTACK THE RIM” your tag line. Snazzy. Hip. Dope. Or however it’s said these days. I like it.
Sam From the Swats,
I agree that Josh gets a lot of flack, more than the guys drafted ahead of him. At the same time, Joe is right. It’s less about draft position by now, and more about showing what they are truly capable of. Marvin is no game changer. Josh is. That doesn’t mean Marvin’s no good. But it does mean that more is expected out of Josh, who is clearly capable at this point of having a much more dynamic effect on any given game, on any given night.
By the way, unless you’ve talked to every single GM and/or front office personnel of every team, you can’t possibly know that no teams were interested in Marvin. Just because it wasn’t reported doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Front office personnel are on the phone with each other all year long. If all the phone calls and conversations were leaked to various media outlets, the deluge of rumors would saturate and permeate everything. We wouldn’t even know who made the playoffs for trying to keep up with the rumors…..
kwooden1
August 10th, 2009
11:06 am
Newkid, I think the article may actually help the situation. Because of the NBA system, no team accept Cleveland can offer significantly more $ than us. I believe the issues in Joe Smith’s mind are playing time and length of contract. He’s averaged 19 – 20+mins/per for the last 3 years, but he might be thinking he was going to get Solo mins with the HAWKS. The article shows that the coach sees a big need for him with the HAWKS and doesn’t mind vocalizing it. Hopefully it lets Joe Smith know that he is wanted and will be a major part of this team.
GO HAWKS!!!
Anakin Joe
August 10th, 2009
11:16 am
One more thing on Woody’s quote… it is consistent with his style. Last season, Woody came out and declared “we want home court advantage and to win 50 games”. He said it in his first year with a new boss. He put himself and his team out there. So why not step forward and say “we need front court depth”? How is he supposed to avoid the obvious? Did you want him to say “I am comfortable that we can compete with a 10 man roster”? Or “we could sign a few thick brothas on the corner and go out and nail the 4th seed, we’ve got it like that”? I would love to hear Bobby Cox say something more than his same old “I like our team” line that we hear each and every April. It sounds fake, routine and thoughtless, especially after being a .500 team tha past 3.5 years. Oh and if Sund is a guy who likes to have “deals fall in his lap” then having the coach tell all of the remaining veteran big men that the Hawks have a big-ole vacancy sign hanging in the front window is a good idea. Here’s guessing that Sund had more than 2-3 messages waiting for him this morning from various agents of available bigs. “Let’s talk, call me at …”.
Ken Strickland
August 10th, 2009
11:16 am
RANOM-I’m not into the debate about which player plays harder because it’s all relative. We’re talking about different players with different styles, mindsets, approaches to the gm and situations. Horford has to play harder because he plays center and ususlly goes up against bigger, taller and stronger opponents. JSmith has the option of varying his approach because playing PF usually affords him better size, height and strength matchups. JJ is in the unique position of having to be the teams #1 OFF option and #1 DEF stopper. Far too often he has to guard the CPaul’s, DWilliam’, DWade’s and AIverson’s in order to compensate for Bibby’s poor DEF skills. You won’t find DWade, LJames or KBryant having to do that.
Also, Josh is more easily frustrated than either Horford, JJ, Marvin or JJ. The same emotional drive that triggers his desire to work so hard in the off season to improve himself both physically and skill wise, often leads to his frustration. He knows he, his teammates and the team as a whole, are much much better when they push the ball, play uptempo and attack the basket. When the team gets bogged down and morph into the ISO Joe, Bibby and Flip mode, and everyone else gets shut out of the OFF, he trys to change things by running a one man fastbreak and forcing the issue when he secures a rebound.
When you’re not allowed to run consistently and score easy baskets, when you don’t have an inside scoring presence and your halfcourt OFF is limited and breaks down often, your alternative is a lot of dribbling, one on one play and long jumpers to beat the shot clock. DOES THAT SEEM FAMILIAR?
After giving it some thought, I believe I know why OHunter hasn’t been offered a contract. Joe Smith is the object of our desire and we want to secure our 12 man roster first. If we sign Joe, we’ll have our PF. If we don’t, Hunter will likely be signed, along with Siler and another FA Big. Signing Joe Smith instead of OHunter gives us more experience and versatility.
Ariose
August 10th, 2009
2:10 pm
I think Joe Smith is stalling because he has no intention to sign with the Hawks. He’s just stringing us along and waiting for Cleveland to up their offer. Kind of like how Lamar Odum flirted with the Heat this offseason but WE ALL KNEW he wouldn’t leave that good situation he had in LA.
In an article about a week ago, Joe Smoth said that Atlanta is were he wants to be. Seems like a front for something bigger(cle) if you ask me…
Thats my conspiracy theory for the day lol.
Ariose
August 10th, 2009
2:19 pm
*smith
The Truth
August 10th, 2009
4:06 pm
The Hawks are correctly moving on to Plan B if and when Joe Smith signs with the Cavs. This will lessen the embarrassment if we get rejected. At least Woody has publicly shown plenty of love for the guy and expressed to him his value with the Hawks. I don’t know what the Hawks money offer is but he will likely turn-down being the option-2 guy for being the option-3 guy. However, if Sund knew he was competing against the Cavs, a real title contender, then he’s a fool if he low-balled the offer to Joe Smith; especially after striking-out so many times before with all the contention for big-men. On the other hand, this might not be about Sund at all. This might simply be about a disingenuous Joe Smith using the Hawks to gain leverage with the Cavs just because he can. I hope it doesn’t backfire on him.