Vacation visions
Might a Smith family reunion (of sorts) be in the works for Joe and Josh (no relation) this season with the Hawks? Time will tell. The Hawks are working on it, though.
THE OPEN ROAD - I’m not supposed to be here right now.
Seriously. I looked it up. Vacation is meant to be “leisure time away from work, devoted to rest or pleasure.”
But the phone doesn’t stop ringing because you want it to (next time, we all need to go on vacation together … or at least at the same time).
After being off the grid (mostly) for an entire family reunion weekend, I’ll admit that I’m a bit foggy on some of the details about what went on in Las Vegas for Josh Smith at the USA Basketball mini-camp and just about any other hot debate that’s gone on around here the past few days (and for the record, I’m told that despite a tepid performance in Saturday’s scrimmage, his time with the USA B’ball folks was a rousing success because it allowed quite a few people that weren’t familiar with him other than what they’ve seen, heard and read to get a much better for feel for him as a person and player).
But I do have some thoughts about a few other things, namely the Hawks’ mini-camp from last week, the state of negotiations with Marvin Williams and the Hawks’ continued pursuit of Joe Smith. So if you’ll forgive your host for leaving the party for a few days (technically, I’m on vacation until August – just in case Wifey decides to check the blog and see what we’ve got going on), here are some of my vacation visions:
JOE SMITH probably didn’t realize he had multiple stalkers until he left Atlanta Friday. That’s when the Hawks’ full court press for the veteran free agent’s signature shifted from face-to-face to long distance. Well, mostly long distance. The Hawks do have a secret weapon in Smith’s Phoenix backyard. Mike Bibby’s basketball royalty in the Valley. And he’s one of several Hawks working hard on the recruiting trail to bring Smith into the fold. Zaza Pachulia knows Smith well from their time together in Milwaukee and said he would use all his Euro-charm (at lunch Friday and beyond) to make sure Smith was aware of just how much he is wanted and needed by the Hawks. All that said, major work must be done to secure Smith’s signature on a contract. It’s not secret the Hawks aren’t paying the same rate for backup bigs that some other teams are (for example, Chris Wilcox got cash – $6 million over two years – in Detroit that he never could have from the Hawks. Same goes for Drew Gooden and the reported $4.5 mil he’ll bring in on a one-year deal with the Spurs). So they have to find ways (PLAYING TIME!!!!!!!!!!) to lure the kind of players they need to help bolster their cause. It probably helps that, in a summer marked by taking care of in-house business (home grown free agents), Smith is the first player outside of the family that the Hawks actually courted. Again, there is major work still to be done on this front.
YOU WERE WARNED THAT THINGS between the Hawks and Marvin Williams would drag out this summer. I wasn’t joking. Nothing has changed. The sides remain on opposite sides of the restricted free agent street right now. I know that other outlets reported that the sides were “close” and all that, but it’s just not true. The sides are talking. And they’ll be back at it this week. Anyone that sees an end in sight has X-ray vision, because I wouldn’t be surprised if things lasted deep into next month. Look back at the Hawks’ dealings with many of their own players in the past (I know Mike Bibby and Zaza coming back as quickly as they did had you juiced but that was out of the ordinary for the Hawks). It usually takes time, especially for restricted free agents.
JEFF TEAGUE is going to make a lot of people forget about the disappointing saga that was Acie Law IV’s tenure with the Hawks. Teague did more than just turn heads during the Hawks’ mini-camp last week. He sparked conversation about point guard play I hadn’t heard in my time covering the Hawks before last week. “He did some things as a young point guard that we hadn’t seen on our practice floor since Chris Paul and Deron Williams were here for predraft workouts,” one Hawks assistant coach told me last week. That’s as strong a statement as I’ve heard from anyone in the Hawks’ camp regarding a young point guard. While they all agree that Teague has plenty of polish that can be applied to his game, there is no debate about who or what the Hawks expect him to become. “I can’t wait to see him in training camp,” Randolph Morris said. “I think he’s going to give people fits with his quickness and his ability to get to the rim whenever he wants to. That’s going to be fun to watch.”
OBSERVATIONS ABOUT A FEW OTHER GUYS that stood out (for various reasons) during mini-camp:
- Othello Hunter was more impressive than any other player in camp, after Teague. His range on his jumper has improved dramatically. But we all know that his chance at making a dent in the Hawks’ roster and playing rotation depends on his ability rebound, defend and provide the hustle plays required of frontcourt journeymen in the NBA. The improved shot is an added bonus. I’d have him locked up on a two-year deal right now. If he keeps improving, someone is going to get a steal.
- Garret Siler’s stock with fans and media types can’t get much higher. He’s become something of a phenomenon around these parts, thanks to some serious hype and the big fella backing it up with strong performances in the Las Vegas summer league and last week. Siler’s raw and would be a super-sized Lunchable for superstars like Dwight Howard, Shaq and Pau Gasol, not to mention brutes like Kendrick Perkins and Brook Lopez. I know you want to believe that he’s the he’s the answer to the Hawks’ big-man problems … but that would mean all 30 teams missed on the guy, twice for some teams, on draft night.
- Randolph Morris has shed the kind of weight all of us “bigger” guys would love to be able to shed. And he did it organically, which makes it particularly impressive. He had his moments during mini-camp but I’m not sure he blew anyone (in charge) away with the work he did. I don’t know what he has to do to make a move up the Hawks’ rotational food chain, though he is under contract for this season, which has to help. But the fact is, even with all the work Morris has done, the Hawks are still hunting reserve bigs.
- Frank Robinson did it again. He showed up. Played his guts out, literally. And his reward, like that of most guys in his predicament, will probably be an invite to training camp. Robinson is the kind of guy that will always make training camp interesting because he’s fearless and is skilled enough to make you wonder why he’s not on someone’s NBA team? He won’t make the Hawks’ roster this season. But I certainly wouldn’t be surprised to see him in the middle of the action during training camp.
- Yoroslav Korolev was supposed to be a bust. When he crashed and burned with the Los Angeles Clippers (they made him the 12th pick of the 2005 draft), he joined the ranks of Darko Milicic, Nickoloz Tskitishvili and Fran Vasquez on the list of worst ever Euro-lottery busts. Korolev was just a kid when the Clippers drafted him but he looked grown up last week. He was much better than I expected him to be and showed off a nice shooting touch from long distance. He’d be worth keeping an eye on for the future.
- Brian Hamilton surprised me as much or more than any player in camp. I honestly wasn’t aware of him at all before last week. But mini-camp is a showcase for under the radar players like Hamilton, a smooth 6-6 swingman that impressed on both ends of the floor. His defense is what made him stand out. Yet he showed plenty of offensive ability and a nose for the ball on both ends of the floor that would make Mario West jealous. He’s another guy that will surely be in someone’s training camp pushing someone under contract to the limit.
Those were just some of the guys that made lasting impressions on me. Hawks coach Mike Woodson remarked several times that it was by far the best (rookie/free-agent) camp conducted during his tenure with the Hawks and I have to agree that it was the best I’ve seen in my time dealing with the Hawks (I missed his first one, when Josh Smith and Josh Childress were rookies). But there wasn’t a single player in town last week that didn’t belong on that floor.
IN CLOSING, I’d be remiss if I didn’t give my man Solomon “Solo” Jones a proper send off here. One of the truly unique characters to grace us with his presence the past three years, Jones is moving on this week to a two-year deal with the Indiana Pacers. Solo is moving on at a time when the Hawks could use a big or two like him, which makes his departure for Indiana all the more perplexing. After all, he was a restricted free agent, due close to a $1 million if he had signed his qualifying offer (the QO was rescinded so he would be allowed to sign with the Pacers without any interruption). I needed an explanation and Solo provided one last week. “The Hawks kept it real with me,” he said. “They told me that my role was going to be pretty much the same as it was last year, and that I wouldn’t have a chance to move up and get more time unless somebody got hurt like last year. And I realize that’s just the way it’s going to be with Josh and Al [Horford] and Zaza already in place. It’s cool. I get a chance to go somewhere else and try and start over and see if there’s a chance to have a bigger role. The Pacers want me up there right away to get to work and that’s a good thing. I’m looking forward to the opportunity. But I appreciate the Hawks keeping it straight with me and not trying to sell me something that they couldn’t deliver in terms of playing time and opportunity.”
If it’s good enough for Solo, it’s good enough for me.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
712 comments Add your comment
Anakin Joe
July 28th, 2009
11:12 am
If you give your wife a budget of $100 to buy groceries and she spends $98 on veggies, fruit, dairy products and canned items and then says that she needs more money for the meat… is it fair if she calls you “cheap” that you don’t give her extra money to complete the shopping? Isn’t she to blame for not utilizing her budget properly to purchase all components for the meal?
More than likely, Sund can’t sign a big until the Marvin deal is complete. I don’t think that we have a right to demand that ownership pay the luxury tax when there are no free agents left that can “guarantee” us a trip to the conference finals. So if ownership refuses to cross the luxury tax line for a second round playoff team, then why risk losing Marvin because we signed Joe Smith and Ryan Hollins to deals that don’t leave room for Marvin? I assume that Sund had a budget sometime around June 15 (or before) and is using that stated budget to purchase groceries. If he ends up with a bunch of veggies and fruit and no beef, blame the shopper not the funder.
Anakin Joe
July 28th, 2009
11:20 am
kgb, I like Joe Smith a lot. Have we signed him yet? Seems like his visit to our facility has been translated into a sure-thing signing. Let’s face it, at this stage of the summer, a free agent would visit any team that shows an inkling of interest. Wasn’t AI flirting at one point with Memphis and the Clippers? Desperate times. Smith and Crawford would clearly be upgrades for our bench. But (IMO) it all hinges on Smith. In terms of remaining free agents, it’s Smith or bust.
Hoops
July 28th, 2009
11:40 am
Anakin Joe,
That’s a great anology. You are probably right. Marvin is holding up Joe and Joe is holding up the show.
terrell barron
July 28th, 2009
11:42 am
Chandler to Charlotte for Okafur.
I.MUS WRITE
July 28th, 2009
11:44 am
Hmmmmm….. Woah Now- Jonathan Bender and Jamario Davidson……. Come on people lets not get desperate here. I just talked to Bender about a month ago-ahhhhh no that man is rail thin -I mean 190 lbs stretched out over a 6′11 frame. Bednder is done trust me- he doesnt want to play anymore. Jamario is even thinner than Bender -thats my dude but no….I’d rather have Solo over those 2.
I here u AJ… If the women had 98 bucks and didnt get any meat..because it was all spoiled and changing colors I wouldnt have a problem with that. Meat being spoiled referring to -Bigs that dont want to play here and over paid bigs with huge contract demands who dont produce.
What if she said “babe i dont have any meat but i have a 12 pack of heinekens and the latest issue of king magazine” ………. I MUS says dam the meat pass me a beer.
We will get another big -everybody seems to be in panic mode around here.
I.MUS WRITE
July 28th, 2009
11:51 am
Remember -last year we didnt sign Flip and Mo til mid August… I would like to get Hollins-i think he would be what Solo was supposed to be …. Probably a pipe dream but Jo smith and Hollins would be exactly what we need -then sign Siler as that goon we use to wear down Lopez,Shaq etc………
Anakin Joe
July 28th, 2009
12:06 pm
A 12 pack and King magazine. LMAO.
I.MUS, timing is everything. On July 15, there was a lot of high quality “meat” in the store. But we were in the produce area while the other shoppers raided the meat section. Now we’re stuck with RandMo… beating our own meat.
Hoops
July 28th, 2009
12:14 pm
Make your choice (you can only choose 4-we probably leave one roster spot open)-
Joe Smith
Ryan Hollins
Garrett Siler
O. Hunter
Korolev
Mario West
Flip
Sign Marvin, then choose 4 quick, before they are gone!!!
Tony
July 28th, 2009
12:19 pm
What is taking so long to sign Marvin. Give the man 5years,40-45mil and call it a day already. Sign Siler and move on. What are you doing Sund?
macaroni tony
July 28th, 2009
12:27 pm
joe smith, siler, hunter, flip
kgbsfinst
July 28th, 2009
12:29 pm
Anakin,
Your right, it does depend on us getting Joe, and I really hope we do get him. If we don’t get him, I would still like us to get a veteran big.
The same thing happened last year, we had Josh and Josh not under contract, so nothing else got done until they got signed (or went to Greece). Last year I wanted us to be more aggressive and instead of letting the market dictate what we want to pay Josh Smith, why not set it ourselves and then we know how much we have to spend on everyone else. The same thing this year, we cant sign these players if we don’t know how much we are going to have left after Marvin (assuming hes our #1 focus). I don’t know if that’s Sund or ASG that wants to take that approach, but it seems like that is the Hawks strategy.
Anakin Joe
July 28th, 2009
12:32 pm
Hoops, I’ll play. Give me Smith, Hunter, Siler and Brevin Knight. If I’m forced to choose from your list, then throw in Mario (but I REALLY prefer a pass-first PG at the end of our bench).
KevinA
July 28th, 2009
12:48 pm
kgbsfinst,
We did struggle offensively a lot last year, I remember a few games where it took us a good 5-10 minutes to get our offense going.
Your right, maybe JJ shooting .413 for 1st quarter FG% has something to do with it. Bringing Crawford in for a jump start may not work. He shot .416. Maybe we should give the ball to Josh and Bibby in the first quarter. they shoot .466 and .440 respectively.
If you like FG% numbers the time to play Crawford is in the fourth quarter. He improves to .458. Bibby should be benched in the 4th qt. He averaged .391
Inspite of all the griping about Josh his worst qt is the 1st, .466
To continue the Crawford bashing theme, 1st qt .416, 2nd qt .371, 3rd qt .390 4th qt .458
Moral to story, play Bibby the first 3 quarters and Crawford the 4th.
I.MUS
July 28th, 2009
12:52 pm
AJ ..We have to take baby steps,dont forget how we did bussiness just a few short years ago….I agree that we should have been more proactive when it comes to bettering the team,but thats just not the ATLANTA HAWKS way. I cant tell you how many times i’ve seen other teams sign good players for the cheap -while we just sat around”beating our spoiled meat” EWWWWW……
I have absolutely no faith or hope for R.morris -I think he is a complete waste of time…… The guuy from camp Ellis looked alot better to me -I cant understand the fascination with this guy- Jerome Jame part deaux-
Hoopz-Whass up *** I would definitely ride with:
Hollins,Joe Smith,Flip and Siler….I like Mario but what exactly does he do besides double as an attack dog every few games – I mean if the man had a jumper or was a slick ball handler i would feel alot better but Naw ….The funny part is -I think he will be in the league for years to come….Journeymen attack gawg…
Dam it does anybody have Hollins twitter ID or blackberry#….1 mill is a good price for that yung’n- We pay Morris 750k to collect towels and warm ups- Hollins is super long and has crazy athleticism…… He’s right around 230/240 but he is crazy tall every bit of 7′1 and im guessing his reach is close to 7′7 or so. Who is doing the dispersal of money arouind here -you mean to tell me hollins is’nt worth what we pay Morris and Mario-dam shame….sumtimz I wonder if our owners really want us to get better and take the next step
Lets get busy its our time ASG -almost August- Thats when we do work.
Jeezuz-I had no idea Starr Bucks was the happenin spot on Tuesdays- There are all kind people up in here -more like a lounge- Pretty Women,Chess Players etc….. I just met the most intresting man in the world….really tho- Im an ex veteran -So im wearing my old AIRBORNE shirt and this elderly gentlemen jus comes up to me and starts talking……. He’s a veteran of the Korean War…… I feel like I’ve known the man most of my life -When i told him I was in Guam for 3.5 years he began to tell me about some of his exploits over in the orient……Ahhhm lets just say that wilt chamberlin aient got shyt on this –
I think this is my new Tuesday at noon spot- good day gents
Melvin
July 28th, 2009
1:23 pm
Hoops,
Give me Smith, Hollins, Siler and Korolev.
Anakin,
You complaint about Sund not signing any bigs and you want to bring in Brevin Knight? How many midgets (I meant, guards) do you want on this team?
cdog
July 28th, 2009
2:07 pm
HAS ANYONE NOTICE RICK SUND STILL HAS NOT SIGNED A BIG MAN? AND EVERYONE STILL WRITES AND CRITICIZES WOODSON. YOU ALL’S BUDDY SUND IS THE HAWKS PROBLEM. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SIGNING OF JOE SMITH? IT’S ALMOST A WEEK AND NOTHING IS DONE. SOME GM WE HAVE. JUST LIKE I TOLD YOU ALL, WHEN SUND GETS THROUGH PLAYING GAMES WITH HIM AND MARVIN WILLIAMS WE PROBABLY WON’T HAVE EITHER. DON’T CRITICIZE WOODSON UNTIL SUND GIVES HIM SOME TALENT LIKE THE MAJIC, CELTICS AND CAVS HAVE. RIGHT NOW THE CURRENT ROSTER IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO EITHER SO ITS SUND AND NOT WOODSON WHO IS TO BLAME.
Deep
July 28th, 2009
2:07 pm
Smith, Siler, Hollins, Flip, Korolev (F@#K the roster spot)
Deep
July 28th, 2009
2:08 pm
Most likely Flip ain’t coming back.
Deep
July 28th, 2009
2:13 pm
SEKOU,
I’m using my ESP powers to communicate………… Do you know the most recent numbers between Marvin and the Hawks? Has the gap closed any???……. ALSO PLEASE DO US ALL A FAVOR? When you speak with Sund again, will you ask him if there has been any contact with Flip….. Thanks
chaz
July 28th, 2009
2:15 pm
05-06 37M
06-07 48M
07-08 58M
08-09 68M
09-10 56M + Marvin + FA
ASG has not been cheap or unwilling to spend on this team – this season could be just the first since 05 in which payroll hasn’t increased by at least 10M from the previous year. Even facing a bad economy and the prospect of having to resign JJ next year, this year’s payroll will likely be down only slightly from last year. To say that ASG is cheap or doesn’t want to spend money is ludicrous.
It is entirely possible that ASG believes this team can win without going into the luxury tax, that its core players can improve enough individually and as a team to make it to the finals without bringing in another top-tier player. One could argue that this is valid or that it is delusional, but a five year track record of increasing payroll and retaining key free agents does not indicate that it is based on cheapness or an unwillingness to spend money.
Deep
July 28th, 2009
2:15 pm
Oh wait I forgot about Hunter…..
Deep
July 28th, 2009
2:28 pm
In the playoffs last year Hollins played 26 mins had 8 rebounds and one block… Hunter played almost 14 mins had 6 rebounds, one steal, and one block….. Hunter had the better playoffs…. Hollins is bigger…….
Big Ray
July 28th, 2009
2:50 pm
Astro Joe ,
Nice analogy, except for one teensy weensy detail that you seem to have forgotten. When you give your wife money to go to the grocery store, she buys whatever, checks out, then comes home. Right? She doesn’t purchase each item separately, and she doesn’t have to get you to sign off on each individual purchase.
No deal goes across that isn’t approved by the owners. Remember, there is a team governor (it used to be Belkin) that approves or denies all moves/transactions. Nice attempt at nailing Sund to the wall, while exonerating the owners. Damn, they ought to promote you from Woody’s unpaid publicist to the ASG’s unpaid publicist. Only bad thing is that it would be a raise without a promotion…..
Big Ray
July 28th, 2009
3:16 pm
Meant to say a promotion without a raise…..
One other thing that just keeps sticking out to me. Why are we assuming that there was a plethora of easy-to-make deals out there for good or decent big men? Given Sund’s history elsewhere, why would we think that he passed up a wealth of such opportunities just to sign a backup guard? Spin it how you want, but I’m just not going for that.
I recall Sund saying that sometimes it takes trades months, or even a year or two to develop. I also recall there being a report that Sund had tried to make a deal for Chris Kaman last year, using similar pieces as the ones he used to get Jamal Crawford. The Clippers, who were looking to dump salary, were reportedly going for it. Just like Billy Knight’s attempt at getting Jose Calderon, I’ll bet this deal just didn’t get signed off on. Of course, I can’t bring the proof, but I know who can. Unfortunately, it’s a moot point now.
We have more than one obvious problem within this franchise. A thin frontcourt is just one problem. A largely one-dimensional backcourt-heavy offense is another. An inability to exploit mismatches through offensive design is yet another. Add to that a defensive hitch that eliminates one problem while exposing another.
We can talk priority all day. It may be easy to assume that Sund wanted to fix the offensive issues first. What might be inconvenient for some arguments is the possibility that certain windows of opportunity presented themselves while other windows and doors were shut. Should we assume that Sund and his staff had NOT been pursuing frontcourt help? Again, should we really assume that he ignored perfect opportunities for the sake of getting himself (and Woody) another guard?
Does Sund make offers and trades with complete autonomy? You can believe that if you like. We made offers to several of the bigger names on the market in free agency. Why didn’t they come? Some went to title contenders. Others simply got paid. Something tells me they either didn’t like the chances at a ring, or didn’t like the owner approved and sanctioned offers.
For the upteenth time, Jamal Crawford makes $1 million more than two guys who we couldn’t get anything out of (for whatever various reasons), and our coach didn’t find a use for. And we got him BEFORE we knew we were going to get our “highly prized” formerly high paid starting pg back. I call that a good move, especially considering how largely one-dimensional our offense was, with no steady contributor beyond Joe Johnson. Sure, we had 2nd leading scorer Josh Smith, but between him not being able to make good decisions all the time and the inability to get him the ball consistently where he could make the most use out of it…..that left us what we’ve been for 5 years…one-dimensional.
I find the idea of Crawford’s contract being a hold-up to signing a decent big man. So what was Bibby’s $15 million dollar contract doing LAST year, then? Perhaps THAT is why we couldn’t take on extra salary in a trade for Chris Kaman. Hey, if the argument works for one, why not the other….
The issue with Marvin’s contract is a strange one. We’re still waiting for him to “break out” and have this effect that supercedes the one his oft-maligned frontcourt partner has. No, I don’t want to see Marvin go, and his length is a big help in our frontcourt. But at some point you have to wonder what he’s really worth. Is he really the reason we aren’t making better offers to big guys? Is it fair to assume such a thing?
Look around at the teams the more notable big men have signed with. Wallace. Gooden. Gortat. Boston. Dallas. Orlando. Are any of those teams lesser teams (let’s not talk playoffs when talking Eastern vs. Western Conference…it’s a skewed argument at best)? If it ain’t the chance at contending, it’s the money. Bank on it.
Anakin Joe
July 28th, 2009
3:17 pm
Ray, so are you suggesting that we have a powerless GM, a broke ownership group (who are embroiled in legal debate) and an incompetent coach with a year left on his deal? Sounds like a castrated collection. So exactly who has the power? And do those who applaud the Crawford trade thank Sund or Gearon?
Big Ray
July 28th, 2009
3:22 pm
Chaz,
I get what you’re saying, and the figures promote the argument. What if you take a look around and see that the same is true for most other NBA teams? Just a thought.
The issue is where the money is spent. More has been spent on guards by a long shot, and guess what? Blaming Sund is a convenient way to go, but have things been any different under Billy Knight? Nope. We spent far more on guards when he was here, too.
Is it just me, or are there only two common denominators here? Three guesses who those might be…
Anakin Joe
July 28th, 2009
3:30 pm
Ray, BK traded for Bibby precisely at the same time that he tried to fire Woody. So while Bibby was a highly paid guard, he certainly was not likely acquired with much input from Woody (unless Sekou was wrong in his reporting of that issue at the time).
So that leaves this off-season… when you were good about stating that Woody was firmly seated in the boat with Sund in building the roster this time around. But now, Sund is powerless to choose the players without gaining a player-by player approval from Gearon. Yet Woody has is influential in the roster make-up? OK, I’m confused again. If Sund invited Woody onto a boat that is manipulated by Gearon, then, never mind, I’m getting sea-sick.
Big Ray
July 28th, 2009
3:33 pm
Astro Joe,
Nope. Not suggesting that the ASG is broke. Chaz, like many before him, just showed that these guys spend money. The payroll was $68 million last year.
I’m saying that no deal goes across without an owner stamp on it. Are you suggesting that this is NOT the case? I seem to recall these guys firing Bernie Mullin, and the statement made by Gearon was that they wanted to get more involved in the day-to-day affairs of the franchise. But I’m sure they just let Sund do whatever he wants with their money.
The coach IS in the last year of his contract. Funny that you suggest that I am saying he’s incompetent. Was it not YOU who kept tooting the horn for him, talking about how he won 47 games with this team? Yet it’s YOU who keeps saying that he’s gonna win 35 games and get fired….despite getting the same exact team back (minus a minor part here or there), and an upgrade in his beloved backcourt? If I’m saying he’s incompetent, what are YOU calling him?
Owners don’t generally get on the phone with other teams to broker deals. They generally pay GMs to do it. So yes, GMs get the public credit for the moves that are made. Owners get credit for paying for a product that yields results. They don’t get much in the way of public credit unless their name is Mark Cuban, who insists on being in the spotlight.
While we’re playing the “suggestion” game, are you suggesting that the ASG lets Sund do whatever he wants, signing off on whatever deal he tries to make, without getting into some of the details? Without approving of it first? Gearon for one, does not strike me as that kind of guy. But I’m willing to listen to any plausible argument that suggests such.
Until then, feed that straw to a farm animal. I don’t eat that stuff.
Anakin Joe
July 28th, 2009
3:53 pm
Ray, so is Sund any less empowered than any other GM? The approval of the NBA Governor applies to the other 29 GMs too. And you just said that the ASG has provided adequate funding. So what is your point?
My point, is that Sund had a budget and could likely spend $6M on Bibby or $6M on Andre Miller or $6M on Player X. As long as it didn’t exceed the salary budget allocated for the up-coming season. And of course, Gearon would need to put his signature on that contract (just like every NBA Governor has to sign-off on the decisions of their GM). But it feels like you are suggesting that Sund is somehow handicapped, or did I misunderstand you?
Brandon Williams
July 28th, 2009
3:54 pm
You want a summer splash for the hawks, how about a trade to chicago that would send josh smith to the bulls for john salmons and tyrus thomas
NBALinks 7/28
July 28th, 2009
3:55 pm
[...] every NBA Team is 33% complete. ESPN.com Solomon Jones off to play for Larry Legend and the Pacers. AJC Coach McCullum off to UCF. I feel really bad for Mac. Andy Katz USF playing FAMU in 2011? Greg [...]
Ariose
July 28th, 2009
3:57 pm
Link:
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/20090727_Sixers__Andre_Miller_were_not_on_the_same_page.html
“We wish Andre the best,” Stefanski said after a busy week in which he watched Andre Iguodala and Thaddeus Young practice in the U.S. National Team minicamp in Las Vegas, then jetted back in time for Saturday’s annual Beach Bash in Avalon. “We’ve moved on. The opportunity is there now for Lou to excel, and we think he will. He’s been grooming himself for this for 4 years. At the same time, we’ll see what the learning curve is for Holiday.”
With Williams, Holiday and Willie Green the only full-fledged guards on the roster, Stefanski is continuing his search for a veteran. A source familiar with the situation confirmed some early contact concerning Atlanta Hawks unrestricted free agent Ronald “Flip” Murray (a Philadelphia native who played at Strawberry Mansion High), but said that Murray’s agent is looking for more than a 1-year commitment.
The Sixers don’t appear to be in the running for Golden State Warriors restricted free agent C.J. Watson. The source clarified that, because of Watson’s restricted status, a team must offer at least 2 years, but that the second year can be nonguaranteed. The Sixers are said to have offered a guarantee of $2.3 million, but reports indicate that the Warriors may have offered as much as 3 years and $4.5 million.
With both the salary cap and the luxury-tax trigger point going down this season and projected to drop even more for 2010-11, the Sixers are reluctant to tie up too much money too soon.
That’s why they are mulling a list of possibilities including Royal Ivey, Jason Hart, Carlos Arroyo, Bobby Jackson, Juan Dixon, Tyronn Lue, Brevin Knight and Luther Head. Ivey spent last season with the Sixers, then declined his second-year player option, apparently in the hopes of adding years to a deal.
————————————————-
Looks like Flip won’t be going to Philly. We should give him a 3yr 6mill deal…..And I don’t Give a F@#$^! who’s on the roster dammit. Talent is talent, and, I wanna win. Theres no gaurentee that Crawford will work out here anyway; the same thing that happend in Golden State Could happen with Crawford and Woodson, where he doesn’t find crawford useful or conducive to team chemistry in our system. We just don’t know until we play the games. There is also no guarentee that Crawford is better thatn Flip. You can’t say that. Flip has ALWAYS played for winners and has had to “Fit-In” while crawford has ALWAYS been the Lead-chucker on bad teams. I think the madjority of you are jumping the gun stating that Crawford will “OBVIOUSLY” produce way more than flip. We already know what flip brings to the table.
What happens if Crawford ONLY averages 12-13ppg? IDK about you but I personally will be calling for flip to absorb his minutes and to ship Crawfords inflated price-tag outta here.
……just a thought.
Big Ray
July 28th, 2009
3:58 pm
Astro Joe,
Mind telling me WHICH Woody firing attempt that was? Uh, seems you forgot that Sekou also reported that he had tried to fire Woody more than once, and before that particular trade. Don’t you just hate people with good memories….
Not sure where you’re going with the Woody input thing, as what I just posted had to do with Hawks GMs spending large amounts of money on guards, rather than on big men. As much as you want to stick this to Sund, you have to stick it to Billy as well. Strange how two totally different GMs end up doing the same thing. The only exception is Josh Smith, and we didn’t negotiate his contract. We let somebody else do it for us. The only common denominators are Woody and the ASG. And while I won’t go so far as to say that Woody is the main reason why this is the case (or even a large part of it), I find it a wry coincidence that a coach who loves to do everything through his backcourt has presided over a team that has had mostly a cheap, patchwork frontcourt. Also, he has survived through two GMs, so far. Seems he and the ASG are fairly well connected. And unless Gearon is an outright liar (I’ll let you make the suggestion), they like him. But I’ve let you draw me off topic….
” when you were good about stating that Woody was firmly seated in the boat with Sund in building the roster this time around”
Actually, the articles were much better about it than I was. Surely you remember the part where Sund said he wanted input from his coach. Surely you remember the part where Woody said that while he wasn’t worried about his own contract, he felt very good about the conversations he had with Sund about what to do with the roster. He said they were on the same page. You remember that don’t you? You don’t? Well archive it, it’s there. I remember you saying that you didn’t see what Woodson’s opinion had to do with anything. Which is awful strange, considering how many times you defended his decisions to play or not play guys like Solo and Acie. So his opinion counts when he decides whether a guy should get playing time, but it doesn’t when it comes to offseason roster moves? Now I’m confused….
“But now, Sund is powerless to choose the players without gaining a player-by player approval from Gearon.”
Nice twist. You’re a natural spin doctor as well as a contrarian!
For the sake of argument, I’ll correct ya. I never said Sund couldn’t choose the players. I said transactions are not completed without approval of the team governor. That would be Gearon. Well looky, looky. Gearon is an owner. Checkmate…wanna play again? Let me guess, the next “challenge” will be to prove to you that transactions are not owner approved….
“Yet Woody has is influential in the roster make-up?
All I ever did was repeat what Sund said. He said he wants Woody’s input. That’s it. Keep putting words in my mouth, and you won’t have any room for all the straw you’re trying to feed me. But I have to admit, this is more fun than speculating about what it takes to sign Joe Smith, whether or not we’ll get stuck signing your big toe (Miki Moore), or whether we’ll just end up with minicamp invitees (please God no).
“OK, I’m confused again. If Sund invited Woody onto a boat that is manipulated by Gearon, then, never mind, I’m getting sea-sick.”
A better question would be how fast could Astro Joe get the immunity bracelet away from Sund, give it to Woody, and get Sund kicked off the boat? : ) Sea-sickness comes from trying to rock the boat when the waves themselves just aren’t enough for you.
Any chance I might get a speculative thought or two on your predicted August trade, or shall we just settle for another round of rhetorical chess?
Ariose
July 28th, 2009
4:03 pm
Let’s hope that Niremetal is more “Michal Jordan” Clutch than “Robert Horry” cluch lol. Dominating the entire game as opposed to the last few seconds is always a plus hehehe…
Hoops
July 28th, 2009
4:09 pm
Assuming for a minute that “Marvin is holding up Joe and Joe is holding up the show” is true, let’s break it down!
1. Salary that is committed right now to Bibby, Teague, JJ, Crawford, Evans, Josh, Horford, Zaza, and Morris – $54,923,463.00
2. Marvin has a QO of $7,355,165.00. I would not pay him more per year than the QO in a long trem deal. I’m not sure I would go that high, but for our purposes right now let’s just say he takes the QO (one year or multiple years).
3. That’s $62,278,628.00 at this point.
4. We can argue all day on the names of the players that should finish out the roster, but for a minute let’s look at this possible roster with their projected salaries.
Joe Smith – $3M (MLE)
Ryan Hollins – $1.9M (Bi-Annual)
Garrett Siler – $1M (MLE)
Y. Korolev – $1M (MLE)
5. Now your total committed salary is – $69,178,628.00. We are barley under the L. tax, but we are under. I don’t see why the ASG can’t make this happen. All of those players, that are not signed, would sign for those salaries and maybe less in some cases.
This is our team:
PG-Bibby, Teague
SG-JJ, Crawford, Evans
SF-Marvin, Korolev
PF-Josh, Joe S, Hollins
C-Horford, Zaza, Siler, Morris
That may be about as good as we can do at this point. We would be a great improvement over last season! GET IT DONE ASG!!!
Ariose
July 28th, 2009
4:16 pm
Hmmm, If we were to sign Marvin, Siler & Flip, that’s about 68mill. Mario would make it 69mill, and if you add Joe Smith and/or Korolev, I think we’d be in Luxury Tax land…..Damn….I understand what sund is thinking now.
we’re not winnig a title next season so why go into luxury land? At the same time, you wanna be better than the year before and be able to take on injuries/Family Absences(Players) and still be able to succeed…
It’s a tough line…..
Ariose
July 28th, 2009
4:20 pm
LOL@ Me, Good stuff hoops. Wish I had read our post b4 posting.
Hmm, I would rather have Hollins than Joe Smith for sure. He’s young & Athletic, he can improve, and he fits in with the core(age wise).
Melvin
July 28th, 2009
4:25 pm
Hoops,
Co-sign. I don’t understand why the Marvin contract situation is holding up filling out the rest of the roster. Either you gonna give in and pay above your estimate offer or not. There’s no reason why it should take this long to get his deal done especially since they consider him part of the core. This is just stupid. Lock yourselves in the room with his agent and get it done. Did they learn anything from the Josh’s fiasco last summer. It’s not like they didn’t know Marvin was going to be a RFA this summer…
Big Ray
July 28th, 2009
4:35 pm
Astro Joe,
You’re all over the place. Where are you getting the “less empowered than the other GMs” thing from? Not following you at all there. My point is what it was before you started with all of your “suggestions” and the other chaff: you can’t lay everything at the feet of the GM without acknowledging that whatever deal he came up with got signed off on by somebody above him. Blame always rises to the top. You worked/work in the corporate world, yes? Don’t play dumb. You picked your target in Sund. I disagreed. That ALWAYS ends up being a loooooong and circular conversation.
“My point, is that Sund had a budget and could likely spend $6M on Bibby or $6M on Andre Miller or $6M on Player X. As long as it didn’t exceed the salary budget allocated for the up-coming season. And of course, Gearon would need to put his signature on that contract (just like every NBA Governor has to sign-off on the decisions of their GM). But it feels like you are suggesting that Sund is somehow handicapped, or did I misunderstand you?
Nope, not suggesting a handicap at all. I AM suggesting that Gearon and Co are taking a closer look at the details than just the money. I could be wrong, and it IS just speculation. But more than that, I’m suggesting the possibility that maybe, just maybe the opportunities that you or I would rather see taken advantage of….just weren’t there. What if Sund tried moving Acie and Claxton (and any other less valuable pieces) for a decent big, but couldn’t come up with anything worth the money? What if the opportunities presented did not do anything more than marginally upgrade our frontcourt, and not for the right amount of money?
Let’s say Golden State called US about Crawford, looking to unload a contract after their seemingly-all powerful, autonomous coach decided he didn’t want him anymore? Should Sund ignore the opportunity to upgrade his backcourt and rid himself of two guys that are doing nothing for his coach and team? Should he hold onto those two “assets” in the hopes of using them to get a worthwhile big for the bench, however unlikely that might be? That’s why I applaud the move. It’s a gamble, but I don’t see it as being a bad one. And while you hope like nobody’s business that it happens, I have to say it’s not like Crawford isn’t tradeable…
One more thing, and I have to credit Sautee with the origin of this thought. You seem to be assuming that because the Crawford deal happened before anything else did, that it was the highest priortiy. Is it not possible that the opportunity simply presented itself ouf of nowhere (after all, Nelson rather suddenly decided that he didn’t care to have Crawford around anymore, this was not a known fact for any length of time…ask Crawford) ? In this case, is it not possible that the opportunity presented had nothing at all to do with the priorities?
I wouldn’t think that asking somebody to take this under consideration (as some of us did right when the deal was announced) is in any way unrealistic.
By the way, if we sign Joe, you said that your point is moot. I disagree. I think Sund jumped on a presented opportunity, then took care of his own FAs (for the most part), all the while trying to acquire a decent big man. The order in which things happen is not always an indicator of the priorities that have been set. I’m sure you are familiar with the old adage “the best laid plans of mice and men”…..
Ariose
July 28th, 2009
4:37 pm
Poop, I just saw your comment from the first page lol (don’t know how I missed it heh). Shoot, Flip in Philly W/Lou would kinda suck, but If you put them both a 1&2 They are interchangeable and it would defenetly be an annoyance for opposing teams lol…..especially us.
Whe’ve never defended Flip well when he was on an opposing team….. Remeber that indiana game we lost at the end of the 07-08 season when we were fighting for the 8th seed? Ladies ad Gentlemen: the “Flip Murray Effect”. He was a PEST that whole game, to say the least.
Big Ray
July 28th, 2009
4:39 pm
Ariose,
I understand what you’re saying about the luxury tax. I don’t think we’re anywhere near it, though. Perhaps MannyT, Nire, or somebody could research and explain that one.
Melvin,
I agree. It’s probably not that black and white, but I don’t see how Marvin’s situation keeps us from filling out the roster, unless there is a hard-line point where Sund simply cannot spend anymore money. Even then…
Well, that just rolls back to my point about the willingness to spend money vs the ability to do so…
Ariose
July 28th, 2009
4:40 pm
8-o Oh lord, lemme go back up and read these long diatribes between AJ and ray
I skipped em’ so I could get a quick idea of the blog theme today lol.
Ariose
July 28th, 2009
4:41 pm
8-0
Ariose
July 28th, 2009
4:41 pm
0-8
o-8
Ariose
July 28th, 2009
4:42 pm
8_0
Ariose
July 28th, 2009
4:42 pm
0_8
o_8
8_o
Ariose
July 28th, 2009
4:44 pm
…trying to figure out how to do the big eye smiley face lol…..
Ariose
July 28th, 2009
4:46 pm
Ray, oops. I was figuring marvins 7mill into my theory. I forgot about his Bird rights lol.
Ariose
July 28th, 2009
4:49 pm
Crawford has always been a pain in the @$$ for us too. We should defenetly get flip back here too. The more pain in the AZZ players on our roster, the less there are on other teams to cause us trouble heh!
Ty Corbin
July 28th, 2009
4:50 pm
I have to say, I’m worried about Joe Smith coming here. I’m afraid he may want a title.
If we get him and Hollins, I would be more than pleased.
Here is the next question? To fill out the roster, do we get another wing or a PG? Bibby, Teague and Crawford and even Joe could play point. Evans is only a 6′5 back-up at the 3 spot.