Vacation visions
Might a Smith family reunion (of sorts) be in the works for Joe and Josh (no relation) this season with the Hawks? Time will tell. The Hawks are working on it, though.
THE OPEN ROAD - I’m not supposed to be here right now.
Seriously. I looked it up. Vacation is meant to be “leisure time away from work, devoted to rest or pleasure.”
But the phone doesn’t stop ringing because you want it to (next time, we all need to go on vacation together … or at least at the same time).
After being off the grid (mostly) for an entire family reunion weekend, I’ll admit that I’m a bit foggy on some of the details about what went on in Las Vegas for Josh Smith at the USA Basketball mini-camp and just about any other hot debate that’s gone on around here the past few days (and for the record, I’m told that despite a tepid performance in Saturday’s scrimmage, his time with the USA B’ball folks was a rousing success because it allowed quite a few people that weren’t familiar with him other than what they’ve seen, heard and read to get a much better for feel for him as a person and player).
But I do have some thoughts about a few other things, namely the Hawks’ mini-camp from last week, the state of negotiations with Marvin Williams and the Hawks’ continued pursuit of Joe Smith. So if you’ll forgive your host for leaving the party for a few days (technically, I’m on vacation until August – just in case Wifey decides to check the blog and see what we’ve got going on), here are some of my vacation visions:
JOE SMITH probably didn’t realize he had multiple stalkers until he left Atlanta Friday. That’s when the Hawks’ full court press for the veteran free agent’s signature shifted from face-to-face to long distance. Well, mostly long distance. The Hawks do have a secret weapon in Smith’s Phoenix backyard. Mike Bibby’s basketball royalty in the Valley. And he’s one of several Hawks working hard on the recruiting trail to bring Smith into the fold. Zaza Pachulia knows Smith well from their time together in Milwaukee and said he would use all his Euro-charm (at lunch Friday and beyond) to make sure Smith was aware of just how much he is wanted and needed by the Hawks. All that said, major work must be done to secure Smith’s signature on a contract. It’s not secret the Hawks aren’t paying the same rate for backup bigs that some other teams are (for example, Chris Wilcox got cash – $6 million over two years – in Detroit that he never could have from the Hawks. Same goes for Drew Gooden and the reported $4.5 mil he’ll bring in on a one-year deal with the Spurs). So they have to find ways (PLAYING TIME!!!!!!!!!!) to lure the kind of players they need to help bolster their cause. It probably helps that, in a summer marked by taking care of in-house business (home grown free agents), Smith is the first player outside of the family that the Hawks actually courted. Again, there is major work still to be done on this front.
YOU WERE WARNED THAT THINGS between the Hawks and Marvin Williams would drag out this summer. I wasn’t joking. Nothing has changed. The sides remain on opposite sides of the restricted free agent street right now. I know that other outlets reported that the sides were “close” and all that, but it’s just not true. The sides are talking. And they’ll be back at it this week. Anyone that sees an end in sight has X-ray vision, because I wouldn’t be surprised if things lasted deep into next month. Look back at the Hawks’ dealings with many of their own players in the past (I know Mike Bibby and Zaza coming back as quickly as they did had you juiced but that was out of the ordinary for the Hawks). It usually takes time, especially for restricted free agents.
JEFF TEAGUE is going to make a lot of people forget about the disappointing saga that was Acie Law IV’s tenure with the Hawks. Teague did more than just turn heads during the Hawks’ mini-camp last week. He sparked conversation about point guard play I hadn’t heard in my time covering the Hawks before last week. “He did some things as a young point guard that we hadn’t seen on our practice floor since Chris Paul and Deron Williams were here for predraft workouts,” one Hawks assistant coach told me last week. That’s as strong a statement as I’ve heard from anyone in the Hawks’ camp regarding a young point guard. While they all agree that Teague has plenty of polish that can be applied to his game, there is no debate about who or what the Hawks expect him to become. “I can’t wait to see him in training camp,” Randolph Morris said. “I think he’s going to give people fits with his quickness and his ability to get to the rim whenever he wants to. That’s going to be fun to watch.”
OBSERVATIONS ABOUT A FEW OTHER GUYS that stood out (for various reasons) during mini-camp:
- Othello Hunter was more impressive than any other player in camp, after Teague. His range on his jumper has improved dramatically. But we all know that his chance at making a dent in the Hawks’ roster and playing rotation depends on his ability rebound, defend and provide the hustle plays required of frontcourt journeymen in the NBA. The improved shot is an added bonus. I’d have him locked up on a two-year deal right now. If he keeps improving, someone is going to get a steal.
- Garret Siler’s stock with fans and media types can’t get much higher. He’s become something of a phenomenon around these parts, thanks to some serious hype and the big fella backing it up with strong performances in the Las Vegas summer league and last week. Siler’s raw and would be a super-sized Lunchable for superstars like Dwight Howard, Shaq and Pau Gasol, not to mention brutes like Kendrick Perkins and Brook Lopez. I know you want to believe that he’s the he’s the answer to the Hawks’ big-man problems … but that would mean all 30 teams missed on the guy, twice for some teams, on draft night.
- Randolph Morris has shed the kind of weight all of us “bigger” guys would love to be able to shed. And he did it organically, which makes it particularly impressive. He had his moments during mini-camp but I’m not sure he blew anyone (in charge) away with the work he did. I don’t know what he has to do to make a move up the Hawks’ rotational food chain, though he is under contract for this season, which has to help. But the fact is, even with all the work Morris has done, the Hawks are still hunting reserve bigs.
- Frank Robinson did it again. He showed up. Played his guts out, literally. And his reward, like that of most guys in his predicament, will probably be an invite to training camp. Robinson is the kind of guy that will always make training camp interesting because he’s fearless and is skilled enough to make you wonder why he’s not on someone’s NBA team? He won’t make the Hawks’ roster this season. But I certainly wouldn’t be surprised to see him in the middle of the action during training camp.
- Yoroslav Korolev was supposed to be a bust. When he crashed and burned with the Los Angeles Clippers (they made him the 12th pick of the 2005 draft), he joined the ranks of Darko Milicic, Nickoloz Tskitishvili and Fran Vasquez on the list of worst ever Euro-lottery busts. Korolev was just a kid when the Clippers drafted him but he looked grown up last week. He was much better than I expected him to be and showed off a nice shooting touch from long distance. He’d be worth keeping an eye on for the future.
- Brian Hamilton surprised me as much or more than any player in camp. I honestly wasn’t aware of him at all before last week. But mini-camp is a showcase for under the radar players like Hamilton, a smooth 6-6 swingman that impressed on both ends of the floor. His defense is what made him stand out. Yet he showed plenty of offensive ability and a nose for the ball on both ends of the floor that would make Mario West jealous. He’s another guy that will surely be in someone’s training camp pushing someone under contract to the limit.
Those were just some of the guys that made lasting impressions on me. Hawks coach Mike Woodson remarked several times that it was by far the best (rookie/free-agent) camp conducted during his tenure with the Hawks and I have to agree that it was the best I’ve seen in my time dealing with the Hawks (I missed his first one, when Josh Smith and Josh Childress were rookies). But there wasn’t a single player in town last week that didn’t belong on that floor.
IN CLOSING, I’d be remiss if I didn’t give my man Solomon “Solo” Jones a proper send off here. One of the truly unique characters to grace us with his presence the past three years, Jones is moving on this week to a two-year deal with the Indiana Pacers. Solo is moving on at a time when the Hawks could use a big or two like him, which makes his departure for Indiana all the more perplexing. After all, he was a restricted free agent, due close to a $1 million if he had signed his qualifying offer (the QO was rescinded so he would be allowed to sign with the Pacers without any interruption). I needed an explanation and Solo provided one last week. “The Hawks kept it real with me,” he said. “They told me that my role was going to be pretty much the same as it was last year, and that I wouldn’t have a chance to move up and get more time unless somebody got hurt like last year. And I realize that’s just the way it’s going to be with Josh and Al [Horford] and Zaza already in place. It’s cool. I get a chance to go somewhere else and try and start over and see if there’s a chance to have a bigger role. The Pacers want me up there right away to get to work and that’s a good thing. I’m looking forward to the opportunity. But I appreciate the Hawks keeping it straight with me and not trying to sell me something that they couldn’t deliver in terms of playing time and opportunity.”
If it’s good enough for Solo, it’s good enough for me.
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712 comments Add your comment
Anakin Joe
August 2nd, 2009
8:10 pm
Crawford’s detailed stats.
http://www.82games.com/0809/08GSW4.HTM
Anakin Joe
August 2nd, 2009
8:11 pm
Joe’s detailed stats.
http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL7.HTM
Anakin Joe
August 2nd, 2009
8:12 pm
Flip’s detailed stats.
http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL5.HTM
I bleed Pacman logo red
August 2nd, 2009
9:00 pm
anybody know the terms of the Solomon Jones to Pacers deal?
personally, I’m pretty sad to see Solo go. He really brought some good energy off the bench in all those games when Horford and Zaz picked up 5 or 6 first quarter fouls before Woody noticed.
Ariose
August 2nd, 2009
9:35 pm
OK, THIS IS GETTING REALLY ANNOYING.
FOLLW ME.
FLIP+JJ+TEAGUE+BIBBY+CRAWFORD= BEAST AZZ BACKCOURT. IF SOME OF YOU ARE REFERRING TO ME. I NEVER SAID WE SHOULD GET RID OF CRAWFORD. I SAID I WANTED THE BEST TALENT ON THIS SQUAD SO TAT WE CAN MAKE SOMOE NOISE. I ALSO SAID THST IFTEAGUE IS A REAL G AND HE’S THE PLAYER THAT WE THINK HE IS, HE WILL GET HIS MINUTES FROM WOODSON, FLIP BE DAMMED.
I ALSO STATED MY DISGUST WITH THE FACT THAT RICK SUND SSHOULD HAVE TO SCALE DOWN OUR ROSTER IN TERMS OF TALENT BECAUSE MIKE WOODSON IS AN INCOMPOTENT COACH WHO CANNOT MANAGE MINUTES WELL AFTER OVER 30 YEARS OF SERVICE IN THE NBA.
FLIP IS ARGUABLY THE BEST GUARD LEFT OF THE OPEN MARKET AND THS MAN CAN’T GET A DECENT OFFER FROM ANYBODY RIGHT NOW. NOT EVEN THE TEAM THAT HE HELPED GET 47 WINS ON BY PLAING A PROMINENT ROLL OFF THE BENCH FOR. THAS FU#$^K!N BULLSHYT AND YOU KNOW IT!!!!
GET YOUR HEADS ON STRAIGHT BECAUSE UNLIKE SOME OF Y’ALL WORRYING ABOUT TEAGUGE, I WANNA WIN MORE THAN I WANNA SEE HIS AZZ PLAY DAMMIT!!! IF HE’S NOT WHO WE THINK HE IS, THEN HE’LL BE ON THE BNECH JUST LIKE ACIE. IF CRAWFORD IS DOING HIS STREAKY SHYT ON A GIVEN NIGHT, THEN WE WILL HAVE THE LUXURY OF BENCHING HIS AZZ FOR SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS HOW TO GET TO THE RIM
IF WE DON’T SIGN FLIP, THEN THE HAWKS ARE CHEAP, THEY DON’T WANNA WIN, AND WHEN A PG GETS INJURED AND CRAWFORD HAS TO PLAY PG. I DON’T WANNA HEAR SHYT FROM NONNA Y’ALL.
GOOD DAY.
Blast
August 2nd, 2009
9:50 pm
You all nuts, man. I love Flip and all, appreciate what he did for the Hawks last season and I would love to see him back to complement JJ and Crawford. But Flip is not in the same league as Crawford, whether coming off the bench or not. Crawford scared me every time I saw him play the Hawks. It seemed like every shot he took was going in. You folks don’t know what you have until the season starts. Dude can flat out put the ball in the hole. And I think he will be a better assist and defender than we are giving him credit for. Crawford wants to win, man.
Ariose
August 2nd, 2009
9:51 pm
For the record,
I do not beleive thet Jeff Teague is Acie Law or Samlim Stoudamire. I’m almost certain the kid is better than both of them. He shouldn’t have any trouble cracking woodsons rotation:
1) Teague is a beast if you haven’t noticed
2) Flip Murray doesn’t have to play a damn minute until we gat an injury. He’s not gonna comlaplain. He never has, even when bytch azz Flip saunders was cutting his minutes for no damn reason. I just want the man on our bench, JUST IN CASE. THAT’S ALL I’M SAYIN’. JUST IN CASE. I MEAN IT’S NOT LIKE HE’S PULLIN DOWN 11 MILL A YEAR OR DAMANDING 15+ MILL A YEAR BECAUSE HE HAS TO “FEED HIS FAMILY”. IT’S F DOT MURRAY DAMMIT. ATL’S NUMBER ONE GOON, FOR A LITTLE MORE THAN THAN THE MINIMUM, YOU CAN HAVE 12.2 PPG JUST SITTING ON YOUR BENCH JUST WAITING TO POSTERIZE SOME UNSESPECTING FOOL. WHO TURNS THAT DOWN??? LOOSERS TUTN THAT DOWN. CHUMPS NOT COMMITED TO WINNIG TURN THAT DOWN! HAVENT WE LOST ENOUGH ALREADY? APPARENTLY SOME OF YOU STILL HAVEN’T HAD ENOUGH YET JEEZ…
3) Flip Murray or not, if Teague doesn’t play, Woodson is playing Russian roulette with his caching future here in Atlanta. No GM wants to see their draft pick fail period. If woodson can’t see the writing on the wall, then he needs to take some communication classes or something.
Ariose
August 2nd, 2009
9:53 pm
CP, for more Starbury coverage, don’t forget to check out http://timbogohard.blogspot.com/ it’s good for the soul, trust me lol.
Blast
August 2nd, 2009
9:54 pm
Oh, oh. Watch out now. Ariose is on the rampage.
The Truth
August 2nd, 2009
9:54 pm
This argument comparing Flip vs. Crawford is pointless. Are we simply trying to convince ourselves that Flip services are no longer required to justify management decision? Clearly, for the money, Flip gave us the best value. Hell he only cost us 1M last season. However, it is without question, that Crawford is a “High Volume” scorer but his price tag is 10M/year. So naturally, a higher level of performance will be expected of him. The point is what difference does it make if it doesn’t improve the team? Have we really addressed our weakness from last season? I mean was Flip really our problem? I think he was part of the solution that got us the 47 wins. We do know for sure what did work. Flip played his role well off the bench as an attack-dog with instant offense and yeoman-like defense. We shall see if Crawford can produce his offensive volume off the bench and his defense is still suspect. If he is a rhythm scorer than the experiment could backfire as he would need time to get his groove on. It could affect his game if he knows he’s on the clock with tighter minutes. Again, don’t get me wrong, I’m happy with the Crawford addition, but if the Hawks are the patient with a headache and need an aspirin, why are we prescribing cough medicine? Everybody (and their mama) knows the Hawks weakness is our frontline depth and defensive ball penetration while our strength is our backcourt (and that was with Flip). So if we expect to replace one scorer for another and add a few spare parts and expect to get to the finals, then we our living in LA_LA land. Yes Teague could be the X-factor and I like him a lot. But we will be gambling (big-time) with him as the lone backup PG to Bibby and a rookie too. My wish would be to acquire Flip with a multi-year deal under the condition that he changes his role to more of a reserve backup with fewer minutes and be a mentor for Teague. Flip really just wants a home and might just accept that.
Ariose
August 2nd, 2009
10:03 pm
Truth, EXACTLY!!!!
I mean, I’m sire flip knows that in order for a team to aquire his “Bird Rights”, he needs to stay put with the same team for at least three years(or sign a 3yr contract). PPL keep sleeping on this dude and snubbing him for no reason. HE hasn’t even peaked yet. He had his most efficent year(percentage-wise) in the NBA so far this past season. Was it a coincidence? Or was it becaude he finally had consistant minutes from a coach for a whole year for once? Who Cares? You know what he’s gonna give you. You KNOW it’s MUCH MORE than the price that you’re paying the guy for. IT’S A NO FREAKING BRAINER!!!!!
Anakin Joe
August 2nd, 2009
10:19 pm
Truth said …but if the Hawks are the patient with a headache and need an aspirin, why are we prescribing cough medicine? Everybody (and their mama) knows the Hawks weakness is our frontline depth and defensive ball penetration while our strength is our backcourt (and that was with Flip). AMEN!
darrell starks
August 2nd, 2009
10:27 pm
Ariose I agree with you 100percent what in the world this organization is thinking about flip is that 1 missing piece thats very important to the hawks, if it wasn’t for flip woody would have been fired because so many time he bell them out when the hawks was struggling on offense.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
August 2nd, 2009
10:28 pm
WE NEED FLIP RICK SUND.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Anakin Joe
August 2nd, 2009
10:39 pm
Ariose, come on man, you don’t stop acquiring talent because of the coach. You don’t do that for any coach, certainly not one with a single year left on his contract. And until one of Woody’s rejects does something in this league, I’m not buying the prevailing notion that he doesn’t play talented players.
Diaw you say? If memory serves, we had Antoine Walker, Al Harrington, and 1st round picks in Josh and Josh. With all of those guys (including Diaw) which one would you ask to play in the backcourt and help facilitate the offense? Diaw didn’t excel until he was forced to play C/PF for an injury-riddled Phoenix team. Shelden, Salim and Ivey have proven Woody more right than wrong since they left. And Acie appears to be heading down the same path.
Load up the squad with talented pieces that fit. If not Woody, find someone else.
darrell starks
August 2nd, 2009
10:44 pm
What if bibby get hurt? flip
What if crawford get hurt? flip
What if teague get hurt ? FLIP
what im saying is that flip can cover the 1 and 2 position if some one get hurt and the hawks won’t miss a beat if some one is injured.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
KevinA
August 2nd, 2009
10:46 pm
usomegotalisombodiuchie: Impressive blogs the last day. This is much more fun, interesting and relevant than spending days on a fourth big that will get 10 min a game if lucky. (not that is not important).
KevinA
August 2nd, 2009
10:50 pm
Anakin, Darrell, Remember the idea of the bench coming out in waves? Maybe the match-ups don’t make so much sense but the offensive production could create many mis matches.Sign Flip (the cheap Chills)
tiggio
August 2nd, 2009
10:52 pm
If your looking for a new auction site, with out the high site fees, then you’ve found one. Just go to http://tiggio.com today!
KevinA
August 2nd, 2009
10:55 pm
Next year we lose Crawford and pick up Chills.
Bench:
Chills, Flip, ZaZa, Joe Smith, Hunter
darrell starks
August 2nd, 2009
11:14 pm
Can the hawks use morris and siler i say yes, i would like to see both player make the team.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
August 2nd, 2009
11:17 pm
2009 ALANTA HAWKS
STARTER BIBBY, JOE, MARVIN, JOSH, HORFORD,
BENCH FLIP, CRAWFORD, MOE, ZAZA, MORRIS,
RESERVE TEAGUE, SILER.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
August 2nd, 2009
11:24 pm
There will be no excuse for woody not go atleast 10 man deep this year and keep his starters fresh during the season especially joe.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
niremetal
August 2nd, 2009
11:30 pm
Anakin,
1) You can’t extrapolate per-minute stats out and say “Player X could score Y points per game if only he played Z minutes.” It’s so obviously wrong for so many reasons, and if I have to take the time to explain those reasons to you, then it’s not worth trying to discuss the point with you.
Crawford is a significantly better scorer and distributor than Flip. His addition addresses one of our biggest weaknesses from years past. You artfully dodge that last point so often that I’ve gotten dizzy, but it’s true.
Anyway, we get it. Rod:Marvin :: Anakin:Crawford (or if you’re old school) Clyde:Horford :: Anakin:Crawford. You seem to be the only one on the planet who thinks that Flip is even in the same league as Jamal as a player. Even Ariose knows that he’s not.
2) For me at least, the knock was never that Woody didn’t play Diaw. It was that he horribly misused Diaw. He used Diaw as a spot up shooter, same as he does with Marvin. Except that Diaw’s biggest weakness on the offensive end is his perimeter jumper. He’s good on the post, good off the dribble, and great at handling the ball (especially for someone his size). But under Woody, Diaw spent 15-20 minutes a game standing on the perimeter and shooting jumpers with the clock running down. The result was predictable – Diaw missed a lot of those jumpers, and he was never productive as a player.
One year later, D’Antoni finds even MORE minutes for him on a team that was even deeper at the forward spots. And he uses him correctly. Voila. Diaw becomes not only a more productive player, but also a far more efficient player. Larry Brown brought him in and put him on the post, where he also has been great.
So don’t give the line of “Diaw didn’t produce because we had better/veteran players.” Two coaches figured out in a heartbeat how to use Diaw. The only NBA coach who had no fracking clue how to use Diaw? Your boy Woody.
Ariose,
I really do love what Flip gave us last year, but we truly don’t need him anymore. Not even as insurance. We already have 3 guys who can play the point (Bibby, Teague, Crawford) and 3 who can play the 2 (JJ, Crawford, Mo). No reason at all to get a sixth backcourt player unless we pay the vet’s minimum. If we play him, that’s minutes taken away from Crawford (who’s better already) or Teague (who needs minutes to develop). If we don’t play him, then $2M/yr is a lot to pay for an insurance policy. There are better ways to spend that money…even if it’s just to keep around so that we can use it to sign a free agent vet down the stretch if we’re competing for a higher playoff spot (like the Spurs did with Gooden, the Celts with Cassell and PJ Brown, etc).
Big Ray
August 2nd, 2009
11:31 pm
cp ,
No problem, man. I got nothin’ but love for Flip. And I understand that some people just don’t like what Sund did by getting Crawford. Funny, dude puts up over 20 points in one season, then puts up just a frog’s hair less than that in another season….with two different teams that season. But we’re going to question whether or not he’s a 20 ppg scorer. Go figure. Or rather, don’t.
Flip definitely presents better value for the money than Crawford.
But uhhh…..I could have SWORN that we traded Acie and Speedy for Crawford. I didn’t know we traded Flip for Crawford. Did I miss something?
Seems to me we had a 2nd year pg who had a persistent hang-nail problem (or so I heard somewhere), and a decently paid veteran pg who would get injured if you looked at him the wrong way. And between the two of them, they were making about $1 million a year less than Crawford.
And apparently there were all kinds of great opportunities to get a rotation-worthy big man out there by trading these two pgs who we couldn’t seem to get much use out of. I seem to recall us trying to parlay them (and possibly other similar pieces) into a deal for Chris Kaman last year.
Well, either ownership wouldn’t sign off on it, or this is proof that even the Clippers aren’t that stupid, regardless of their need to off-load contracts.
I keep waiting to hear what deals for serviceable big men Sund decided to pass up in favor of adding a guard. Until then, I’ll take this deal for what it really is: two useless (for this team) pgs for a guy who is capable of giving you 20 points any given night you need it (and pressure off of JJ), for the price of a million dollars extra a year….
KevinA
August 2nd, 2009
11:32 pm
Think Woody will do a Royal Ivey and give him minutes at the beginning of every game? Let it be, let it be.
niremetal
August 2nd, 2009
11:35 pm
Oh, and “injury-riddled”? Ha. The only guy who was injured was Amare. The Suns had Marion, James Jones, Kurt Thomas, Raja Bell, and eventually Tim Thomas playing minutes at the 3 positions at which D’Antoni used Diaw the most (SF/PF/C, though he also got some minutes at the guard positions). Read “:07 Seconds or Less”. It talks about how it took D’Antoni about 10 seconds of watching Diaw play to figure out that he could shift him effectively between all 5 positions on the floor.
No excuse for Woody. He just was too blind or too set in his ways to know how best to use Diaw.
niremetal
August 2nd, 2009
11:36 pm
Ray,
Two great posts on Crawford/Flip/etc. As always
niremetal
August 2nd, 2009
11:42 pm
PS, Ariose – I listened to the Em/Mimi diss track you sent out a few days ago. Damn – that was great. Did you ever read Eminem’s autobiography that he wrote this past year? I just am starting it. Good stuff…
Big Ray
August 2nd, 2009
11:46 pm
Niremetal,
Agreed 100%.
Big Ray
August 2nd, 2009
11:49 pm
Niremetal,
Thanks. And I meant to say that I agreed with your 11:30 post…
Also, great points on Diaw. I don’t want to get into yet another Woody-bashing fest, but the results speak for themselves where Diaw is concerned. Especially considering that D’Antoni and Brown are about as different a couple of coaches as you’ll find…
Ed
August 2nd, 2009
11:50 pm
Sekou said on twitter a few hours ago there will be a new blog up soon.
Big Ray
August 2nd, 2009
11:55 pm
Oh thank God. Not that all the current topics will go away or anything….
: )
cp
August 3rd, 2009
12:13 am
lol those Marbury clips. Fellas look I like Flip but I actually want to see our young pg who is getting great reviews play this season. The minute we bring Flip back,Teague will be sitting next to RandyMo getting DNP’S. I’m sorry but I actually want to see this kid succeed. You know the minute Teague makes a mistake he would bring Flip in, if he isn’t in already and Teague wont see the court for a few games.
darrell starks
August 3rd, 2009
12:23 am
Can any one answer this in what way signing FLIP will hurt the hawks?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
KevinA
August 3rd, 2009
1:31 am
cp,
Signing Flip may or may not have anything to do with Teauge’s minutes. Woody is old school, he will play the guys that will produce.There is nothing with raising the bar. If Teague is the real deal, he will find a way to get minutes.Maybe it will inspire Crawford/Bibby and Flip to play better basketball to keep in the mix. He will get his chance but the competion will be tough. As it should be.
KevinA
August 3rd, 2009
1:53 am
darrell,
Lets think of
Flip as a draft pick. Is Flip better than a secound round pick? Yeppers. Is the price right? 2 mil is good. If Flip can go for more than that? Like Solo, we wish him well. At least we offered him a home.
Ed
August 3rd, 2009
3:00 am
Nire, you are dead on about Diaw. I remember when he was still here he suggested to Woody that they run the offense through him and Woody scoffed at the notion.
Doug
August 3rd, 2009
8:33 am
Darrell: It’s really simple how signing Flip would “hurt” the Hawks. Roster construction and cap management. Flip did fine last year…really gave the Hawks a spark…but he is NOT Jamal Crawford as any GM in the league would attest. He also is NOT Jeff Teague who is most certanly th PG of the future…so ANY minutes he would get would be counter productive…second even paying him 2 million subtracts precisely that amount from what the Hawks are able to pay for a desperately needed 4-5…or from developmental “roster filler”. Third…if Flip is so flippin valuable why is he still unemployed????
dap01
August 3rd, 2009
8:42 am
Flip was great for our team last year. But he is not a point guard. He was successful because he simply attached the rim and shot, shot, shot. He did not run an offense, he shot.
Woody liked him because Flip bailed out Woody’s lack of offensive system.
Flip was great, but he is not needed this year.
Daniel
August 3rd, 2009
8:55 am
Guys- Diaw is now a superstar? Reading the posts from last night, it sure seems that you guys think that he is. C’mon the Suns are where exactly?
I think that traffic was backed up this morning because Mike Woodson didn’t give everyone one “more minutes” and developed their driving talents. Give me a break. Get a new story!!
Darrell- I think that is a great question. Honestly, I don’t have a good answer, no way does it take 2 milion to resign Flip. Will he be happy with less minutes? will he be as effective with less minutes? Those are the only thoughts I could come up with. I would rather have a true 3rd string pg than Flip, but I certainly wouldn’t be upset if the Hawks brought him back.
Still no news on Joe Smith or Marvin…… dang!
Daniel
August 3rd, 2009
8:58 am
cp- I hope to see Teague succeed as well, because he will help our team. But, make no mistake about it, I don’t care how successful any individual player becomes if our team doesn’t win. I care if the Hawks succeed. That is the only thing that matters.
A Tribe Called Quest
August 3rd, 2009
9:11 am
WHERE THE HELL IS SEKOU? MAKE A NEW BLOG ALREADY
Anakin Joe
August 3rd, 2009
9:46 am
nire, so you’re trying to tell me that Diaw didn’t “arrive” until after the injury to Amare? Then why did his scoring and rebounding explode in February with almost the same minutes?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?playerId=2167&sYear=2006&sType=4
You’re right, you can’t make assumptions by expanding or constricting a player’s minutes. I anxiously await how Crawford will deliver a better value than Flip next season. I’m sure that extra assist per game will be well worth the extra $8M. Flip brought something this team sorely needed. Toughness & grit. A legitimate “F YOU and your mama” mentality that this team full of finesse players dream about having. I could imagine Team Bibby and Josh and Al acting like they have what Flip has but once the game starts, they return to their comfortable place where no one is banging, grabbing, elbowing and fighting for their basketball livelihood. Flip played the game like it was the only thing that would keep him out of Russia. The other guys play the game like they want a third Range Rover.
Ray, there are two sides of every trade, agreed? What youi give and what you get. Speedy and Acie (IMO) were not an “addition by subtraction” case because neither were bad seeds. And until we actually see Sund do something with the extra roster position (something different than an undrafted FA), neither was seemingly wasting a roster spot that would be occupied by a contributor. Back to the two sides of a trade. If you are of the belief that a trade is good by just focusing on one side, fine. I have a different opinion. I evaluate trades on both sides, what you gave and received. We gave up nothing and brought back more of the same. Another jump-shooter. Another poor defender. And a guy whose arrival likely impacts our ability to bolster our front-line.
Value and need. Value and need.
Anakin Joe
August 3rd, 2009
9:53 am
Diaw refused to shoot for Woody. He would rather pass to a defended teammate than shoot an open 15 footer. How is that helping his team? Even as recently as last season, Raja Bell talked about Diaw’s passiveness. And Bell has been with him long enough (and with two teams) to know a little something about the french pastry.
Sautee
August 3rd, 2009
9:56 am
Astro Joe,
I find it EXTREMELY ironic that you are in essence now agreeing with my argument of earlier in the year that JJ is a very good player who is somewhat overpaid for his production.
You were one of the ones at the time (with nire) telling me how invalid it was for me to compare JJ’s production with that of the players nearest his salary (LeBron, Wade, Bosh).
But now when you want to bring Crawford down, you’re willing to see it my way.
VERY INTERESTING! as Artie Johnson would say.
And oh so ironic.
Anakin Joe
August 3rd, 2009
9:56 am
And nire, when you check out Diaw’s splits from the earlier post, look at his stats by position. And tell me again that he didn’t excel when asked to play C/PF for the injured-Suns.
Anakin Joe
August 3rd, 2009
9:57 am
Sautee, I never mentioned Joe in conjunction with salaries. I think someone else brought Joe into the discussion, not me. I’m sure that you will correct me if I’m wrong about that.
Sautee
August 3rd, 2009
10:18 am
AJ,
It was the listing of the link Joe’s stats along with Flip’s and Jamal’s that made me think you were buying in to that argument. You DID list the link to Joe’s stats. eh?
Anakin Joe
August 3rd, 2009
10:33 am
Sautee, yes, in repsonse to Ray’s comments comparing Joe to Jamal.
I did challenge that players should be compared by role. So I do think that comparing “combo guard subs” as a category would place Crawford and Flip in the same universe. Along with guys like Eddie House, Lou Williams (although he may start now) and Randy Foye (I’m assuming Foye will come off the bench for the Wizards).
I guess we could have compared Joe and Jamal last year but I wouldn’t do so this coming year. And I won’t spend much time comparing a 3-time All-Star and player who has made at least 3-4 post-season trips to a player who has many 50-point games and has never been on a 42-win team. That feels like trying to compare Shareef to Chris Webber and I think that is silly.