Vacation visions
Might a Smith family reunion (of sorts) be in the works for Joe and Josh (no relation) this season with the Hawks? Time will tell. The Hawks are working on it, though.
THE OPEN ROAD - I’m not supposed to be here right now.
Seriously. I looked it up. Vacation is meant to be “leisure time away from work, devoted to rest or pleasure.”
But the phone doesn’t stop ringing because you want it to (next time, we all need to go on vacation together … or at least at the same time).
After being off the grid (mostly) for an entire family reunion weekend, I’ll admit that I’m a bit foggy on some of the details about what went on in Las Vegas for Josh Smith at the USA Basketball mini-camp and just about any other hot debate that’s gone on around here the past few days (and for the record, I’m told that despite a tepid performance in Saturday’s scrimmage, his time with the USA B’ball folks was a rousing success because it allowed quite a few people that weren’t familiar with him other than what they’ve seen, heard and read to get a much better for feel for him as a person and player).
But I do have some thoughts about a few other things, namely the Hawks’ mini-camp from last week, the state of negotiations with Marvin Williams and the Hawks’ continued pursuit of Joe Smith. So if you’ll forgive your host for leaving the party for a few days (technically, I’m on vacation until August – just in case Wifey decides to check the blog and see what we’ve got going on), here are some of my vacation visions:
JOE SMITH probably didn’t realize he had multiple stalkers until he left Atlanta Friday. That’s when the Hawks’ full court press for the veteran free agent’s signature shifted from face-to-face to long distance. Well, mostly long distance. The Hawks do have a secret weapon in Smith’s Phoenix backyard. Mike Bibby’s basketball royalty in the Valley. And he’s one of several Hawks working hard on the recruiting trail to bring Smith into the fold. Zaza Pachulia knows Smith well from their time together in Milwaukee and said he would use all his Euro-charm (at lunch Friday and beyond) to make sure Smith was aware of just how much he is wanted and needed by the Hawks. All that said, major work must be done to secure Smith’s signature on a contract. It’s not secret the Hawks aren’t paying the same rate for backup bigs that some other teams are (for example, Chris Wilcox got cash – $6 million over two years – in Detroit that he never could have from the Hawks. Same goes for Drew Gooden and the reported $4.5 mil he’ll bring in on a one-year deal with the Spurs). So they have to find ways (PLAYING TIME!!!!!!!!!!) to lure the kind of players they need to help bolster their cause. It probably helps that, in a summer marked by taking care of in-house business (home grown free agents), Smith is the first player outside of the family that the Hawks actually courted. Again, there is major work still to be done on this front.
YOU WERE WARNED THAT THINGS between the Hawks and Marvin Williams would drag out this summer. I wasn’t joking. Nothing has changed. The sides remain on opposite sides of the restricted free agent street right now. I know that other outlets reported that the sides were “close” and all that, but it’s just not true. The sides are talking. And they’ll be back at it this week. Anyone that sees an end in sight has X-ray vision, because I wouldn’t be surprised if things lasted deep into next month. Look back at the Hawks’ dealings with many of their own players in the past (I know Mike Bibby and Zaza coming back as quickly as they did had you juiced but that was out of the ordinary for the Hawks). It usually takes time, especially for restricted free agents.
JEFF TEAGUE is going to make a lot of people forget about the disappointing saga that was Acie Law IV’s tenure with the Hawks. Teague did more than just turn heads during the Hawks’ mini-camp last week. He sparked conversation about point guard play I hadn’t heard in my time covering the Hawks before last week. “He did some things as a young point guard that we hadn’t seen on our practice floor since Chris Paul and Deron Williams were here for predraft workouts,” one Hawks assistant coach told me last week. That’s as strong a statement as I’ve heard from anyone in the Hawks’ camp regarding a young point guard. While they all agree that Teague has plenty of polish that can be applied to his game, there is no debate about who or what the Hawks expect him to become. “I can’t wait to see him in training camp,” Randolph Morris said. “I think he’s going to give people fits with his quickness and his ability to get to the rim whenever he wants to. That’s going to be fun to watch.”
OBSERVATIONS ABOUT A FEW OTHER GUYS that stood out (for various reasons) during mini-camp:
- Othello Hunter was more impressive than any other player in camp, after Teague. His range on his jumper has improved dramatically. But we all know that his chance at making a dent in the Hawks’ roster and playing rotation depends on his ability rebound, defend and provide the hustle plays required of frontcourt journeymen in the NBA. The improved shot is an added bonus. I’d have him locked up on a two-year deal right now. If he keeps improving, someone is going to get a steal.
- Garret Siler’s stock with fans and media types can’t get much higher. He’s become something of a phenomenon around these parts, thanks to some serious hype and the big fella backing it up with strong performances in the Las Vegas summer league and last week. Siler’s raw and would be a super-sized Lunchable for superstars like Dwight Howard, Shaq and Pau Gasol, not to mention brutes like Kendrick Perkins and Brook Lopez. I know you want to believe that he’s the he’s the answer to the Hawks’ big-man problems … but that would mean all 30 teams missed on the guy, twice for some teams, on draft night.
- Randolph Morris has shed the kind of weight all of us “bigger” guys would love to be able to shed. And he did it organically, which makes it particularly impressive. He had his moments during mini-camp but I’m not sure he blew anyone (in charge) away with the work he did. I don’t know what he has to do to make a move up the Hawks’ rotational food chain, though he is under contract for this season, which has to help. But the fact is, even with all the work Morris has done, the Hawks are still hunting reserve bigs.
- Frank Robinson did it again. He showed up. Played his guts out, literally. And his reward, like that of most guys in his predicament, will probably be an invite to training camp. Robinson is the kind of guy that will always make training camp interesting because he’s fearless and is skilled enough to make you wonder why he’s not on someone’s NBA team? He won’t make the Hawks’ roster this season. But I certainly wouldn’t be surprised to see him in the middle of the action during training camp.
- Yoroslav Korolev was supposed to be a bust. When he crashed and burned with the Los Angeles Clippers (they made him the 12th pick of the 2005 draft), he joined the ranks of Darko Milicic, Nickoloz Tskitishvili and Fran Vasquez on the list of worst ever Euro-lottery busts. Korolev was just a kid when the Clippers drafted him but he looked grown up last week. He was much better than I expected him to be and showed off a nice shooting touch from long distance. He’d be worth keeping an eye on for the future.
- Brian Hamilton surprised me as much or more than any player in camp. I honestly wasn’t aware of him at all before last week. But mini-camp is a showcase for under the radar players like Hamilton, a smooth 6-6 swingman that impressed on both ends of the floor. His defense is what made him stand out. Yet he showed plenty of offensive ability and a nose for the ball on both ends of the floor that would make Mario West jealous. He’s another guy that will surely be in someone’s training camp pushing someone under contract to the limit.
Those were just some of the guys that made lasting impressions on me. Hawks coach Mike Woodson remarked several times that it was by far the best (rookie/free-agent) camp conducted during his tenure with the Hawks and I have to agree that it was the best I’ve seen in my time dealing with the Hawks (I missed his first one, when Josh Smith and Josh Childress were rookies). But there wasn’t a single player in town last week that didn’t belong on that floor.
IN CLOSING, I’d be remiss if I didn’t give my man Solomon “Solo” Jones a proper send off here. One of the truly unique characters to grace us with his presence the past three years, Jones is moving on this week to a two-year deal with the Indiana Pacers. Solo is moving on at a time when the Hawks could use a big or two like him, which makes his departure for Indiana all the more perplexing. After all, he was a restricted free agent, due close to a $1 million if he had signed his qualifying offer (the QO was rescinded so he would be allowed to sign with the Pacers without any interruption). I needed an explanation and Solo provided one last week. “The Hawks kept it real with me,” he said. “They told me that my role was going to be pretty much the same as it was last year, and that I wouldn’t have a chance to move up and get more time unless somebody got hurt like last year. And I realize that’s just the way it’s going to be with Josh and Al [Horford] and Zaza already in place. It’s cool. I get a chance to go somewhere else and try and start over and see if there’s a chance to have a bigger role. The Pacers want me up there right away to get to work and that’s a good thing. I’m looking forward to the opportunity. But I appreciate the Hawks keeping it straight with me and not trying to sell me something that they couldn’t deliver in terms of playing time and opportunity.”
If it’s good enough for Solo, it’s good enough for me.
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712 comments Add your comment
Big Ray
August 1st, 2009
8:29 pm
Astro Joe,
I’m not even close to serious about that nonsense. I was just drawing wry (but humorous) parallels between some of the concerns you and others have voiced, and what Schuhmann has written.
Here’s the difference: the concerns that have been voiced here have some merit. This clown however, takes similar concerns and uses them to predict the demise of the team.
I’m just not going for it. Seriously, how can somebody equate “not ready for elite status” with “won’t make the playoffs”? The two just are NOT the same thing. If this guy were right, then last season’s accomplishments are nothing but an anomaly.
As much as I’ve complained about our warts, I just don’t believe that. I refuse. I will have to be proven wrong. But in such proof, the problems will become obvious. Like Ariose said, I’m going to pound dude’s Twitter page when the time is right.
By the way, your Tony Delk Memorial Chair comment is priceless !
Big Ray
August 1st, 2009
8:37 pm
KevinA,
I agree with Ariose. Nice post.
Ariose,
I agree that we have some leadership issues, and we do have some chemistry problems. However, Bibby helps a lot in the vocal department, where Joe lacks. Joe is a damn good player, and I understand the idea of him “leading by example.”
But leading by example is a two-edged sword. All too often Joe has set the tone by not trusting his teammates, and trying to do too much by himself. I’ll say that part of this is Woody leaning on him too much at times to get the job done. Hey, for a few years there was no other choice, so habits are hard to break, but ultimately it’s up to Joe to change those habits. When he tries to do too much, it spreads sometimes to the more aggressive players. Unfortunately, that tended to be Josh Smith and Flip Murray las season. Flip was a big help in scoring, but he also was one-dimensional in that regard. He could provide offense, but he could not jumpstart anybody else’s involvement therein.
And Josh. Well, Josh lacks certain fundamental skills, making it hard for him to create his own shot or comfortable situation, which usually led to turnovers, missed shots, or just boneheaded plays in general. All in the name of trying to get something going, and not having the skills needed to do it in all situations.
But Joe….Joe has the skills. And yet, even the most skilled players STILL have to play within themselves. What happens to Lebron when he shoots too many 3s and long jumpers? His game suffers, and then so does his team’s effectiveness. Same with Kobe at times, and I’d argue that HIS game is even more complete than Lebron’s (he’s a better shooter in my opinion).
Everybody has to play within themselves. When they do this, they are truly leading by example.
Melvin
August 1st, 2009
8:53 pm
I’m watching the ATL Dream play the NY Liberty. It’s a pretty good game. The Dream looks alot like their sibling brother the Hawks. A up and coming team trying to make their 1st playoffs. Holdsclaw looks very good for a person who took some years off from basketball…
niremetal
August 1st, 2009
9:31 pm
I think JJ needs to adjust to the idea that the Hawks are no longer the Hawks of 2005-2006. Marvin and Horford are smooth offensive players and Josh is more mature. He doesn’t need to do it all anymore. It all comes down to trust.
JJ has had a weird career in that he started off being asked to defer to everyone in Phoenix (at the urging of D’Antoni), and then jumped immediately to being asked to defer to no one (at the urging of Woodson). The result has been awkward. He is great as a facilitator and he is great as a scorer, but instead of merging those skills together, he seems to shift between one “mode” or the other. He’ll either shoot too much or not enough.
Now, a big BIG part of that is Woody’s offense. It’s hard to be a facilitator when the play calls for Bibby to set a screen while everyone else stands 15 feet away without moving a damned muscle until it’s too late. You can cover 4 offensive players with 3 defenders if most or all of the offensive players are glued to their spots (which is why the old adage of “if you’re being doubled, someone is open” is bullsh!t in Woody’s offense). That type of offensive scheme demands that JJ be a scorer at all costs, because even Magic in his prime couldn’t get an assist out of that type of play.
That has had a carry-over effect, I think, in that the frequent play calls of “ISO Joe” has led JJ to think that he’s the only one on the team who is a capable scorer. We know that’s not necessarily his “natural” state since he didn’t play that way in Phoenix, but the offensive system the Hawks have run ever since he arrived has demanded that of him. It’s trained him to not trust his younger teammates.
It worked in 2006-2007 because the other teams hadn’t figured out just how damned good he was as a scorer yet. But since then, he has been double teamed so often that Joe doing everything himself is no longer the most effective way for the Hawks to score.
Whether the Hawks can crack the Top 3 rests in no small part on whether both Woody and JJ figure that out and start trusting JJ’s teammates more. If JJ shifts towards creating for his teammates a little more, he’ll probably still score 20ppg but he’ll do it on fewer shots. And if that happens, I honestly think that we can run with the “big boys” in the East.
KevinA
August 1st, 2009
9:34 pm
Ray, Amen to playing within yourself. Exellent post. The rest of your post was spot on. Organic growth for JJ, Woddy and the the vets will be as important as the kids.
Anakin Joe
August 1st, 2009
10:31 pm
Here’s what I always wonder about our offense (based solely on Joe’s famous comment about young guys running wild on the court). How many plays are broken because of poor execution? Kind of like in football, the QB often gets the blame for interceptions or poor throws. But sometimes, the receiver messed up by turning right instead of left or didn’t get off the line properly on a timing route. So when Joe shoots too much, is it always because he is being a ball hog or is it sometimes because “the flanker ran the wrong route” and now he has to ad lib? I’m sure that it is a little of both with some other stuff thrown in too. But at the end of the day, we finished with a top 10 offensive efficiency ranking last season. No doubt, we shoot WAYYYY too many jumpers and our backcourt can get 3 happy much too often (I’m going to miss Flip’s determined drives to the rim). Hopefully, if our frontcourt can stay healthy, they will take that next step and we’ll see more balanced scoring.
Anakin Joe
August 1st, 2009
10:37 pm
KevinA, I don’t see how we have improved defensively (other than the hope that our front court has better health this coming season). I don’t see how we can win 53 games without being better on defense.
A Tribe Called Quest
August 1st, 2009
10:46 pm
EVERYONE HAS SEEN WHAT RICK SUND AND WOODSON SAID:
THEY DO NOT CARE TO COMPETE WITH THE TOP 3 TEAMS. THEY ONLY CARE ABOUT “CLOSING THE GAP.”
WOODSON KNOWS THOSE TEAMS ARE FAR SUPERIOR TO US. HIS ONLY GOAL IS TO GET TO THE 2ND ROUDN AND WIN A GAME OR 2 SO HIS JOB IS SAFE.
THIS TEAM IS NOT TRYING TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP. JUST TO MAKE PLAYOFFS AND WIN A FEW GAMES.
YOU WILL SEE
A Tribe Called Quest
August 1st, 2009
11:05 pm
“Again, I feel good about our team. And if we can add a couple more veterans to help our cause, I think we’ll be in that same mix we were last year when we had to earn our way to that No. 4 seed. ”
THERE U GO PEOPLE. WOODSON WANTS TO HAVE A REPEAT OF LAST YEAR
GENIUS!
A Tribe Called Quest
August 1st, 2009
11:08 pm
THE HAWKS DONT EVEN THINK AHEAD. ITS ALL ON A YEARLY BASIS
NOT EVEN GONNA TRY LOCK JOE UP FOR ANOTHER 5 YEARS
THIS TEAM IS PATHETIC
Blast
August 1st, 2009
11:25 pm
The Atlanta Dream has a 10-10 record. They have a pretty good chance of squeezing into the playoffs this year. Playing 50/50 ball game after only winning 4 games last season? Give it up to the ladies, folks!
Blast
August 1st, 2009
11:28 pm
Memo to Rick Sund:
Please sign Joe Smith and extend JJ so Tribe Called Quest does not have a blog heart attack.
Sam from the Swats
August 2nd, 2009
12:33 am
Please don’t sign Marvin…please. 5 year $40 million? I wouldn’t give that dude $5 to play in a pick up game.
Rod from the... duh... Sam from da... dang!
August 2nd, 2009
12:59 am
Dammit! I meant Sam from DA Swats. Sorry guys. I have a tough time keeping my split personalities straight. In fact, I have trouble being straight in general…
Ariose
August 2nd, 2009
1:10 am
“I’m going to miss Flip’s determined drives to the rim”
AJ, stop it. You’re going to make me cry lol. Seriously. I was trying to forget how much of a factor flip was in the post. Always backing his man down for the easy short range J; and his relentless assualt on the rim.
Ray and KevinA
I guess I was looking for that one “leader of the pack” type of guy. Ex: Billups, Kobe, or a Chris Paul. Though I guys do a good job of keeping themselves in check; the pretty much do everything by committe lol.
I think adding a guy like crawford will ease some of JJ’s ball dominace, kind of like Al Harrington when he was here. All i’m going to say is, if flip comes back; those three on the court at the same time is going to be very fun to watch. Yes, I still think murray should come back. I beleive that Jeff Teague is one of those guys who is going to demand thay you play him with his determination and overall skill, heck, ‘rio gets on the court with just determination alone and not musch skill offensively heh. Either way, Ray and I most assuredly have a future date with Mr.Schuhmann because I can’t see this team finishing with anything less than 47 wins this season. He will defently eat all of his words. Starting with the J-Smoove comments….
Ariose
August 2nd, 2009
1:13 am
……SamRods gay????
o_0
Ed
August 2nd, 2009
1:34 am
To me it’s obvious that we are low-balling Joe Smith otherwise he would have signed already. He’s made it clear he wants to play here so what else could it be. Ole Slow Hand Sund is playing it too close to the vest for my good, but maybe just maybe he has something up his sleeve. That’s the only reason I am not hammering him for not making any additional moves so far. Joe Smith would be a good mentor for Smoove as well as being that veteran influence on the entire team.
Sautee
August 2nd, 2009
10:30 am
Odum back to the Lakers.
That’s one less opportunity for Joe Smith and hopefully can be the tipping point for him signing here.
I’ve been out of town but: Good stuff lately blog fellows.
Astro Joe and niremetal,
I love how you guys are self correcting your own hype lately before I can get to it.
Seriously it DOES improve the blog when you keep it real, and I’ve enjoyed both of your posts lately.
Melvin
August 2nd, 2009
11:26 am
Dang, only two posts by Ariose last night. Did the recession finally e
ffect blogging???
Ariose
August 2nd, 2009
2:17 pm
LOL@ Melvin!
Blast
August 2nd, 2009
3:06 pm
Stephon Marbury is a downright nutcase!
UGA
August 2nd, 2009
3:08 pm
What is Plan B if Joe Smith does not sign?
Ben Wallace, Johan Petro, Mikki Moore.
Who is available in trade?
I’ve looked at rosters, and I think we’d have to look at Kurt Thomas or Darius Songalia as who may be available. I really think it would be nice to grab Songalia from the T-wolves and sign a Ryan Hollins or if we want that vet then we could hope for Ben Wallace.
UGA
August 2nd, 2009
3:17 pm
We also may want to look at another small forward to back-up Marvin. I like Mo but if he gets hurt then we have to put Joe there. Gerald Green is still available. Steve Novak is out there, he can shoot. And we had the Korolev kid from camp.
I am just getting anxious, we have a great nucleus I think, we just better hurry and touch it up. On paper I think we are still 4th in the East. But the 3 ahead of us made some changes that could back-fire on them, on any injury could really hurt a team.
Anakin Joe
August 2nd, 2009
3:28 pm
I’d rather see Othella Hunter groomed as our SF back-up. He has good size and seemingly is willing to do the dirty work. I’m not sure what trade assets we have to acquire someone like Songaila. I wonder if we ould trade Mo Evans to the Clips for Craig Smith? Maybe throw in a 2nd round pick. That would give us a decent back-up tweener if Joe Smith doesn’t sign.
ANT BANKS
August 2nd, 2009
3:46 pm
BLAST,
LMAO!! did you see the marbury ustream video. dude has lost it!! read ja adande’s peace on him. even shaq tweeted somethin’about marbury lost it.
KevinA
August 2nd, 2009
3:58 pm
Anakin Joe
KevinA, I don’t see how we have improved defensively (other than the hope that our front court has better health this coming season)
I agree with you, I thought we went backards on defense last year. I believed losing Chills was the difference. Chills always played at the end of games replacing either Bibby or Marvin. Chills was quicker on defense and still brought his length with those long arms. He also shot/drove well enough opposing players had to stay on him or he would make them pay.
He just had defensive skills that Marvin/Bibby/Crawford/Flip don’t have. He gave Woody different looks without giving up to much in other areas.
One other hope is the backcourt and shot selection. I agree with you we shoot way to many jumpers. Hope springs eternal.
KevinA
August 2nd, 2009
4:15 pm
niremetal ,
Whether the Hawks can crack the Top 3 rests in no small part on whether both Woody and JJ figure that out and start trusting JJ’s teammates more. If JJ shifts towards creating for his teammates a little more, he’ll probably still score 20ppg but he’ll do it on fewer shots. And if that happens, I honestly think that we can run with the “big boys” in the East.
The brothers in the back once more give a hearty, Amen. Add Bibby and Crawford along with JJ about creating shots for others and ending up with more efficient shooting. They have the experience to make it happen if mind is right and the play is tight.
One thing I think we can agree on is the others, Josh, Marvin, ZaZa and Al are not selfish. They can and will pass back.
Bottom line: shooting closer to the basket gets you a higher FG%, Better chance at rebounds and cuts opponents fast break opporntunities. Even the floaters makes the defense work harder.
Big Ray
August 2nd, 2009
4:26 pm
Astro Joe ,
Definitely agreed that poor execution plays a hand in all of this. Of course, that does bring another batch of questions to light. Do you place all the blame on the receivers for running the routes incorrectly? If you do, then perhaps you need new/different receivers. Do you place all the blame on the receivers coach, if the receivers aren’t getting the job done? If so, then you need a new receivers coach, or whoever is responsible for those guys. The safer and likely more accurate route is to say it’s both. The problem with that is now you’re looking at either wholesale changes between receivers and coaching staff, or you have to pinpoint the problem and eliminate or correct it.
The next question is WHY after 3,4, or 5 years are the receivers STILL not executing properly….I’m sure we all have our theories on that, yes?
KevinA
August 2nd, 2009
4:29 pm
Ariose
August 2nd, 2009
1:10 am
“I’m going to miss Flip’s determined drives to the rim”
AJ, stop it. You’re going to make me cry lol. Seriously. I was trying to forget how much of a factor flip was in the post. Always backing his man down for the easy short range J; and his relentless assualt on the rim.
I agree, maybe thats why ZaZa and Flip made such a good 2nd unit? ZaZa cleaned up many of those misses.
I have read many posts saying how Crawford is a jucied up better version than Flip. I hope they are right. I think he has his work cut out for him.
Big Ray
August 2nd, 2009
4:33 pm
“It worked in 2006-2007 because the other teams hadn’t figured out just how damned good he was as a scorer yet. But since then, he has been double teamed so often that Joe doing everything himself is no longer the most effective way for the Hawks to score.”
Nire,
Good post (including the other points). Not only has it not worked, it’s caused JJ to shoot lower percentages and look downright non all-star-ish. It’s hurting both the individual and the team.
Astro Joe,
Agreed that the offense managed to help produce 47 wins and had the level of efficiency that it did. But can it be done the same way again? Based on what we saw in the playoffs against the Miami Heat, I’d say no. Against that team, we didn’t look like a 47 win team. We looked like something else. Yes, we did win. But even on paper, there should have been no doubt about it at all. I won’t sniff at the accomplishment of a playoff series victory, but our holes on both ends of the court wer exposed in less than pleasing fashion.
Doug
August 2nd, 2009
4:34 pm
Kevi: Chills as an on ball defender was horrible…no lateral quickness and little bas strength. Off the ball he could do some decent things but his main contribution was running the floor and offensive rebounding…but to say we missed him defensively is laughable.
KevinA
August 2nd, 2009
4:46 pm
Ray, The next question is WHY after 3,4, or 5 years are the receivers STILL not executing properly….I’m sure we all have our theories on that, yes?
If a year goes by without some form of improvement by young players I think you will see a cut in pt or they become trade bait. For your young recievers that time may be 1-2 years away. As long as upside potential is alive and well it is very hard to get rid of a young player with a couple of warts.
Anakin Joe
August 2nd, 2009
4:53 pm
Ray, I’ll say something that is sure to be very unpopular on this blog… if I were Woody, I’d make Horford the 1st scoring option in the front court, starting this season. I think that he has the discipline, skills and smarts to optimize possessions with the ball in his hands. Now that’s not to say that Smith and Marvin would never take a shot. I would just “feature” Horford more than those other guys in the scripted offense. Marvin and Smith would need to score on open looks, drive and dish and other “non-scripted” plays.
Anakin Joe
August 2nd, 2009
4:55 pm
Also, if the back-up receiver is Solo or Batista or Adam Jennings, you grin and bear it.
Ken Strickland
August 2nd, 2009
4:57 pm
We need to accept the fact we aren’t going to get a Big that will make a difference as far as making us a championship contender or an elite team. It’s obvious our owners don’t feel we’ve reached that status, or they would have jumped into the frey and signed one of the top Bigs early. Instead, they’ve chosen to wait and see what falls through the cracks in hopes of getting a big that can possibly contribute, but on the cheap. They also want a Big that will accept limited mins, because of Woodson’s inability to effectively manage quality mins for more than one Big off his bench.
I’m all for signing Joe Smith, but not as the banging, clog the middle type of Big. At 6′10″ 225lbs, he’s smaller than AHorford(6′10″ 245lbs), Smoove(6′9″ 240lbs), MWilliams(6′9″ 240lbs), SJones(6′10″ 240lbs) and even OHunter st 6′8″ matches his 225lbs. So don’t expect the team to get taller, bigger or stronger by signing Joe Smith.
I’m also in favor of us signing Siler because he’s a big, strong, raw project with lots of potential that needs developing. As we all know by now, Woodson has proven he’s unwilling to put the time and effort into developing a young nonstarter. So I’m hoping we’ll sign Siler with the idea that Woodson will be sent packing after this season. If Woodson is signed to another extension, then Siler will end up being a bigger, stronger and taller version of what we already have riding the bench in RMorris.
Sautee
August 2nd, 2009
4:59 pm
AJ,
That’s just what I was saying LAST year. Horford makes GREAT decisions with the ball. He could easily average 5 assists if he got enough touches.
Oh and likely 15-16 points to go with his 10 rebounds.
Of course big dave would argue that he’s not up to it, but we can disagree.
KevinA
August 2nd, 2009
5:01 pm
Doug, do you think T Lou, A Johnson and Bibby are better defensively? These are the guys he usually replaced at the end of games. My opinion, it was because of defense and the fact he didn’t make many dumb mistakes and shot smart shots along with your other points. Chills was not great at anything. He was good at many things.
Anakin Joe
August 2nd, 2009
5:15 pm
,Sautee, if Al can’t get it done, we could always trade for Sean Williams.
KevinA
August 2nd, 2009
5:17 pm
Sautee, Anakin,
That works for me at least at the beginning of the 1st and 2nd quarter. This would take a little pressure of of JJ. whose FG% is .413 and .421 respectively. Not such an unpopular idea after all. I think Al and Josh are up to it.
Big Ray
August 2nd, 2009
5:18 pm
KevinA,
“I have read many posts saying how Crawford is a jucied up better version than Flip. I hope they are right. I think he has his work cut out for him.”
Doubt it. For all the knocks about Crawford having never played for a winning team or a playoff team, he’s still better than Flip. Don’t get me wrong, I like Flip just fine, but he’s a couple notches down from Crawford. As far as similarities, both guys have played for multiple teams. Both guys are scorers first, passers second . Both guys have a career shooting percentage in the very low 40s (in fact, both are barely in the 40s). Of course, nobody seemed to care all that much about low 40 percent shooting until Jamal came to town…
…..
But that’s more or less where the similarities end, just thinking off the top of my head. Jamal is a starter, and only relegated to the bench if your two pre-existing backcourt guys are either quite good, or simply a better fit (or the coach just likes it that way). Flip is a great first or second guard off the bench, a starter if and only if you don’t have another choice. Except for the first three years of his career, Jamal has been a 35+ mpg guy for three different teams, and for pretty much the entirety of the season for each team. Flip has played those kinds of minutes in just one season, and that was only for about 25-28 games.
After his first three years in the league, Jamal became a guy who would give you no less than 17 points and over 4 assists per game pretty much every season. The lone exception and worst production assists and scoring-wise for a season, in his last 7 years was 14.3 and 3.8 in 32.3 mpg.
Guess what? That still topped Flip’s best stretch, in which he played 28 games for Cleveland (starting 25 of them), averaged 36.7 mpg, and produced 13.5 points and 2.8 assists per game. That was after he was traded from Seattle in the same season (I think).
Is Murray good? Yeah. Is Jamal better? No question. If Jamal doesn’t or can’t produce somewhat similar stats to what he has in the past, it will only be because his role has changed with the Hawks, from what it has been with the previous three teams he has played for. Don’t doubt the capability. It’s there.
Anakin Joe
August 2nd, 2009
5:20 pm
Ray, and if Crawford’s salary was one-eighth of what it is, I still wouldn’t care about his shooting percentage.
Big Ray
August 2nd, 2009
5:23 pm
Astro Joe,
Unpopular or not, I couldn’t agree more. And yes, Sautee has rather quietly been calling for that for a LOOOOOONG time. If I had a dollar for every time that’s popped up in conversations, well….I’d probably just encourage him to say it more, and we’d just split the cash….
Big Ray
August 2nd, 2009
5:32 pm
Astro Joe,
I seem to recall you having said something to that effect before
. Of course, if that bothers you then I can’t imagine what JJ’s shooting percentage does for you when you consider what he gets paid. No, I’m not bashing JJ. And while the common refrain will undoubtedly include caveats such as injuries, poor execution by the entire rest of the team (yes, I’m exaggerating, but you’re no stranger to this), fatigue, and anything else we can think of……the fact remains, you are comparing salary to shooting percentage. So here we go….
Crawford shoots 40%, gives you 19.6 ppg and makes right about 10 mil. JJ shoots 44%, gives you about 21.4 ppg and makes 15 mil. And that’s going off of last year’s stats, in which JJ played for a good team, and Jamal played for a bad one.
I guess the extra 5 mil was worth the 1.8 ppg and 3% increase in shooting percentage? Or will you change the argument and bring in the number of wins for each player’s team? That would be cheating…but I wouldn’t put it past ya…heh heh heh!
A Tribe Called Quest
August 2nd, 2009
5:34 pm
Rivers cited the reduction in the NBA’s salary cap and the unwillingness of two-thirds of the league to spend.
DOC RIVERS SAYS 2/3 OF THE LEAGUE WILL NOT COMPETE THIS YEAR BECAUSE OF SALARY CONCERNS. I WONDER IF THE HAWKS ARE ON THAT LIST
Big Ray
August 2nd, 2009
5:35 pm
No, I’m not comparing players. Before you try and pull that one on me, I already know and acknowledge that JJ is a much better player than Jamal. But that ain’t the issue you present. It’s pay vs. shooting percentage. I’m just saying that’s not an argument I’d roll with.
We could see if ol’ Ricky could just trade back for Acie and Speedy. We’d save 1 mil and be able to use that on some big guy, right? :wicked:
Big Ray
August 2nd, 2009
5:35 pm
Hah….meant to put
cp
August 2nd, 2009
7:41 pm
ray thank you for that post about Crawford. I like Flip and all but people are starting to act like this guy is an all star or something. His best season numbers were still lower than Crawford’s worse season numbers yet somehow some guys still act like Flip is better. The season needs to hurry up and get here because its getting comical on here with some of these exaggerations.
cp
August 2nd, 2009
7:42 pm
And if I’m correct Crawford also gets to the line more than Flip although some are acting like Crawford does not drive to the hole or something.
KevinA
August 2nd, 2009
7:45 pm
Ray,
Crawford may end up being the best thing for the Hawks. It will be interesting on how the process works fitting into a new situation. The young front court will be wanting the ball more and JJ is in contract year. Bibby may be willing to give up a few shots and playing time but I would not bet the bank on it. Marvin will want to reestablish himself and build on his offense skills.
Do you see Crawford getting more shots than Flip had? What is your opinion on the team dynamics when it comes to shot attempts.
If Crawford hustles on defense and is not weak, he will be fine. If he is not capable of good defense it will be hard for Woody to play him and Bibby at the same time. It may be tougher fit for a high volume shooter. I did see an interview and Crawford and he was well spoken and seems like a nice guy. That is a big plus. It’s all speculation and conjecture at this point. What else is off season for.
Anakin Joe
August 2nd, 2009
8:07 pm
cp, no one thinks that Flip in 20 minutes per game puts up the same numbers as Crawford in 30 minutes a game. But in my case, I think that if you could produce a metric that compares production per minute against salary, that their “value” may be equal. And for me, the added benefit of having someone who shot about twice as many “inside” shots as Crawford is also appealing.
And just like there are “people think Flip is this and that” I also think that there are “people who think we’re getting a 20 point scorer”. I’m fairly sure that if you look at their scoring on a minute basis, Flip and Crawford were pretty comparable last season (at vastly different salaries).