Hawks courting Joe Smith?
Joe Smith (32) gave the Hawks all they could handle as he and his Cavaliers swept the birds out of the playoffs in May. The Hawks are in the process of recruiting him to help solidify their frontline rotation.
HAWKSVILLE - Who said the Hawks were done chasing big men this summer?
You didn’t hear it around these parts, at least not officially (from me).
Barring a last minute change of plans, veteran big man Joe Smith is scheduled to visit town on Wednesday, according to two of my best spies. And the Hawks are not out of the running for Ben Wallace, who has yet to agree to terms with Detroit (though, one of my best spies up north insists that it’s just a matter of time before Wallace returns to the Pistons).
A 6-10, 225-pound veteran of 14 NBA seasons, Smith showed he has plenty left in the tank against the Hawks in the Eastern Conference semifinals, averaging 4.8 rebounds, 3.3 points and 1.2 blocks in a little over 21 minutes per game. He’s got that “old man” strength that belies his seemingly slender frame. I watched him push the Hawks’ around in that series whenever he was on the floor.
Smith’s numbers (10.8 points and 5.5 rebounds) in the Cavaliers’ first round sweep of Detroit were even more impressive. He’s capable of that kind of production off the bench for a quality team, which speaks volumes for the type of veteran and pro that he has become since being the No. 1 overall pick in the 1995 draft.
Pair him on the frontline with Zaza Pachulia behind Josh Smith and Al Horford and the Hawks’ paper-thin frontcourt rotation suddenly takes on a different look. While it’s far from the “championship move” many have argued for around here, it’s certainly a move in the right direction (provided the Hawks are able to recruit him and sign him at some point between now and training camp).
The Hawks’ other big man options aren’t exactly ready to fade into the background. I mentioned Randolph Morris the other day and he’s shown well so far. Jeff Schultz caught up with him after Tuesday morning’s mini-camp practice for an interesting update on what he’s been up to this summer.
Another player to keep an eye on for a training camp invite is Othello Hunter. His minutes were sparse as a rookie last season, but the strides he made (physically and in his game) have been stunning to see from a year ago this time. It’s not clear right now what his future is with the Hawks. There are only going to be so many roster spots to go around. And without a guaranteed contract heading into camp, he’ll be gambling a bit if he comes to camp with the Hawks. But I like his game and what he brings in terms of a no-nonsense reserve that’s going to get to it whenever he’s asked.
I spoke with an Eastern Conference executive Tuesday afternoon that wanted to know what the Hawks were going to do with Solomon Jones. Funny, Jones asked me the same thing last week. I answered his question with the same question he asked me. He’s a restricted free agent, so you almost expect his summer to last a bit longer than most. Still, he’ll become an option for not only the Hawks but plenty of other teams looking to fill out the rotation with a long and athletic (even if he’s still a bit undersized) big that can play spot minutes when necessary.
Garret Siler has his chance to make an impression over the next 36 hours or so. He played well enough in summer league to get some looks from several other teams, so the Hawks will have to make a decision about what they want to do with him regarding training camp. One hilarious story that’s already made the mini-camp rounds is that it takes an entire roll of tape to properly tape up one of his ankles. I have to admit he is one of the largest human beings I can remember cutting corners in the hawks’ locker room during my time here. It’s on the floor, though, and particularly against Morris, Hunter and guys like Earl Barron, where we’ll be able to gauge Siler’s readiness for the rigors of the NBA.
There are still a few names left on the free agent radar, the most notable being Johan Petro. He hasn’t signed anywhere yet and could still be an option for the Hawks should things not work out with one of the other guys mentioned above.
Enough about these big men already. It’s time for some actual scrimmage action here shortly (the next time the Hawks have a mini-camp that has more drills than scrimmages in the first two days we should stage a non-violent protest in the name of the game). The blog will be open for business all night. I’ll be dipping back and forth between the blog and Twitter throughout the evening if you want to join the party.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
922 comments Add your comment
Cowa
July 24th, 2009
5:46 pm
Sekou, you need to develop a new blog each summer entitled “Big man flavor of the summer”. Last year, RandMo was the player we absolutely should take a chance on. This summer it’s Siler. Next summer, its …
The moves I would like Sund to make that won’t put us in Luxury tax territory this year OR next (when Joe’s extension will kick in at roughly $15-17M) and resigning Marvin (as he’ll probably take the qualifying offer and become unrestricted next summer):
1) Sign Marvin (although this won’t probably get done until the end of August) to atleast the QO, if not long term. He is a necessity at this point, and we don’t want another poison pill like in Josh’s contract put in. That would put us at 10 players under contract.
2) Sign a veteran big (Smith, Gooden, Thomas, somebody) who can definitely play PF at a minimum. I agree that a back-up PF is the next most important need on this team. If the player can also play some C, great. Two year deal for $1.3-2.5M/year, depending on who you get. 11 players under contract.
3) Sign a vet pass first back-up PG (how about Jason Williams?), or if none available, sign Gaines (and I’m not a UGA guy). JWill is looking to get back in the league, and this would give him an opportunity to play with a contender. In Gaines, I like a stocky PG to play some tight D and can push through screens (unlike our other PG’s) if a vet isn’t available. We could always get Price to work with him on his poor FT%, but I guess that didn’t work too well with Josh this year. $0.8-1.3M/year for 1 year with team option (player option for JWill) for 2nd year. 12 players under contract.
4) Trade Evans for Brandon Wright. I mentioned this in a post above. Wright is an ideal back-up combo forward that would give us protection next year if Marvin were to walk. And he’s still on his rookie contract for a few years. Still 12 players under contract.
5) Sign one or two (do they want 13 or 14 on the roster) Siler/Jones/Koralev/Hunter/Mario/Christmas/Homicide, whoever Woody feels will be best for the practice squad. The guy’s only gonna get a few minutes every few games, so it really doesn’t matter to me. 1 year deals, nothing more.
kerpal
July 24th, 2009
5:49 pm
forget joe smith get marcus camby
palker
July 24th, 2009
5:52 pm
forget marcus camby get dwight howard
kirkinga
July 24th, 2009
6:54 pm
Stephon Marbury live broadcasting supposedly 24 hours:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/have-at-it
We’ve gone from shout out to “Ga Tech”, to “do you like American cheese?”. Shout out to that “fart I shot off”…lol!
He really needs to turn off the web cam because he is not coming off well at all. Perhaps it’s the beverages he’s been consuming?
Go Hawks!!
Hoops
July 24th, 2009
7:00 pm
Cowa,
I almost agree with your plan 100%, but I have a little different wrinkle in my plan. We presently have 9 players under contract for next season and we need to sign Marvin, Joe Smith, Siler, Hunter, and Flip to make my plan work. I will list them by position and the order that I would play them for a 10 man rotation(at least how I would start the season without the benefit of going thru practice with them):
PG-Bibby, Teague
SG-Crawford, Flip
SF-JJ, Marvin (must sign him)
PF-Josh, Joe Smith (must sign him)
C-Horford, Zaza
Bench-Evans (back up @ SG & SF), Hunter (back up @ PF), Siler (back up @ C), Morris (back up @ PF or C)
This gives 3 players, @ least that can play every position. That’s gives great depth and balance to this line up. I would leave one position open in case you need to make an in-season move. I don’t know if we can make the Eastern Conference Finals with this team, but it’s a great improvement from last season. The bench is GREAT! Teague, Flip, Marvin, Joe Smith, & Zaza is a great second unit!
Ariose
July 24th, 2009
7:53 pm
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/kd35-ayyyy
Kevin Durant is live RIGHT NOW!!!
Blast
July 24th, 2009
8:23 pm
Nice to hear that Joe and Al are healed from their injuries. Can we say the same about Marvin?
Ariose, Thanks for that Joe link, man.
Somebody said Josh Smith was not competitive. That’s a load of crap. He IS a competitor. He just has to play smarter, more under control.
Nire, admit it. RandMo got his chance last season, and he didn’t take advantage. He got enough minutes to make an impression, but he didn’t. He was like a deer caught in headlights. Dude was lost in there, and he is SOFT. Hawks don’t need no soft PF/C that cannot hustle. He is still a project and as such, Siler cannot be worse off. At least, Siler sounds like someone ready to do the dirty work. Defence, rebound, beat up on Shaq and Howard… It would be great to see a Hawk out muscle Shaq and Dwight for a change!
Anyone wanna wager how long this blog will run for since Sekou is on vacation? We got 7 pages right now. The longest running Sekou blog I remember as of late was 13-15 pages, I believe. $10 says if Sekou is not back by Wednesday, or Hawks sign or don’t sign Joe Smith, we will have 20 pages of blogs from anxious and maybe frustrated Hawks fans.
Blast
July 24th, 2009
8:38 pm
The best mini camp Mike Woodson ever coached? That must be saying something.
Wouldn’t it be great if Teague turns out to be a Tony Parker kind of point?
brakeyoneck
July 24th, 2009
8:38 pm
“At least, Siler sounds like someone ready to do the dirty work. Defence, rebound, beat up on Shaq and Howard… It would be great to see a Hawk out muscle Shaq and Dwight for a change!”
LOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! anyone who thinks siler can defend anyone in the nba – much less DIESEL or D12 – is gonna be in for quite a surprise when brotha finishes his career 3 yrs from now having proved that he’s the D2 SCRUB THAT HE IS. and D12 would run circles aroiund siler’s fat ass
yall are trippin if you think anyone at summer camp can guard shaq or dwight. lolol!!!!!!!!!
Big Ray
July 24th, 2009
9:04 pm
Daniel,
No sweat bro’. RandMo is as unappetizing to me as he is to you. Maybe he worked hard enough this offseason to get out of Woody’s doghouse and show us something. Maybe not. We’ll know later on, I guess.
Niremetal,
What, throw cold water on a fire you helped start? Heh! Well, we saw what RandMo could do in the SEC, and Siler’s work was less impressive in a Division II setting. Yet here they both were in minicamp, with RandMo having a contract, courtesy of Rick Sund last year. So RandMo has dropped some pounds and worked hard, according to what Sekou said somebody told him. Siler has done the same thing. RandMo hardly got any burn last year, and when he did, he didn’t show me much of anything. Siler has yet to play an NBA minute. Sekou says Siler had no problems with RandMo, and RandMo has uttered statements that Siler is very difficult to deal with, due to his size and strength. Guess he never faced anything like this in the SEC, huh? Sounds to me like nothing has changed from the beginning of the conversation.
Sounds to me like Siler, who has played for fewer years and in lesser competition than the SEC, is having no problems competing with someone who has had all of the former, and 2 years of NBA experience to boot (despite the lack of minutes…dude has been practicing against guys on two different NBA rosters).
I’d say it’s neck-and-neck. RandMo’s only advantage is that he’s still on a contract. And on the court, that’s not going to help him…or us. Yeah, all we’ve seen is clips here and there. I’ll tell ya what the clips have shown me: RandMo finessing, and Siler banging.
Big Ray
July 24th, 2009
9:08 pm
I don’t see Siler guarding Shaq and Dwight. But since people keep bringing it up, who exactly DOES guard these guys effectively? ….Thought so.
Siler is somebody you bring in to help clog things up when starters and backups are getting a rest or are injured. Maybe he develops into somebody who can be a regular part of the rotation at some point. I don’t know.
Until RandMo, who is under contract, shows me he can help down on the block….I’m for adding another super cheap guy who WILL…
Anakin Joe
July 24th, 2009
9:16 pm
I’m confused (again). What did RandMo do in the SEC? Wasn’t he an undrafted player? Or maybe you are referring to his second trip through the SEC (qfter the humiliation of not being drafted the first time). Again, we have ALL known guys awho aren’t self-motivated and I refuse to believe that a boss, coach or teacher is responsible for getting those people off their butt and into gear. RandMo doesn’t appear to have the fire that it takes to compete (nor the agility).
Disappointing commentary on Smith’s early USA Basketball performance. Hopefully it isn’t as bad as being reported. I am sincerely hopeful that he will grow from this experience, much as many other players who have participated in the USA Basketball program have improved. I was hoping that he could move into that Tayshaun Prince role for the team.
Anakin Joe
July 24th, 2009
9:32 pm
Hawks should take a look at Hakim Warrick since he was just screwed by the Grizzlies. They waited until virtually all of the FA money was spent before rescinding the QO. Warrick could provide some Childress-like play along the baseline.
Mitch
July 24th, 2009
9:43 pm
YOu guys have me rolling with this back and forth on Randmo/Siler!! Neither guy is going to get a chance to do much, but we’ve seen what Randmo has for the most part. I’m all about seeing what Siler CAN do. Heck no he’s not gonna beat up Shaq and Dwight (as if anyone could), but maybe he could slow em’ down or annoy them. Honestly, I think it’s worth it to see what happens when he throws his weight into one of them.
Onto something that matters, sad to hear that Josh Smith isn’t doing too well at USA camp. He hasn’t been there long and he’s playing with other young guys (not the true vets) that are in the same boat. Looks like that jump shot won’t come this summer, but maybe he can learn to be a better team player and not get down on himself or others when things don’t go his way. Stuck with him either way.
Whoever brought up that trade “Mo Evans for Brandon Wright” that would be a steal if we could do it, and I say throw in Randmo’s deal to get his sorry tail out of here!! Get Hakim Warrick!!
Damien
July 24th, 2009
9:49 pm
Sund! Sund!
GO get Hakim Warrick!! He’s stunned now, take him to get a happy meal and make him feel appreciated. I’m sure he’ll sign if ya make hime feel wanted.. lol
Hoops
July 24th, 2009
10:01 pm
I know that it has been reported that the Grizzlies have pulled their QO from Hakim Warrick. He was a RFA before they pulled their offer. I believe this now makes Warrick a UFA. Am I correct?
If so, we got to go get him!!! His QO was $3,021,838. If we can add him and Joe Smith, all this talk about Siler/Morris/Solo/Hunter is a waste of time! Get on the phone RICK!!!
JSS
July 24th, 2009
10:19 pm
I thought HW was a tweener PF? Loved his offensive game…
Hoops
July 24th, 2009
10:26 pm
Cowa,
Drop Hunter off of my team and add Warrick! Our post game could have Josh Smith, Joe Smith, Hakim Warrick, Horford, Zaza, Morris, & Siler.
WOW! Talk about going from the outhouse to the penthouse in one year!!!
Anakin Joe
July 24th, 2009
10:49 pm
Warrick is definitely a SF/PF tweener but that is not a bad thing. If there were a way to trade Evans for him, I’d do it in a nano-second. In fact, Sund should try to get him to sign a 3 year deal. Add Warrick and a vet like Foyle and I’d have to swallow some serious crow about Sund addressing our front-court depth issues.
niremetal
July 24th, 2009
10:57 pm
Ray/Anakin/etc,
I hate to get back into it, but again – those clips mean next to nothing. They mean even less than YouTube compilations in terms of showing what a players true abilities are because they aren’t against each other.
Summer league ball is not much better than the SEC in terms of competition. Hell, I’d say it’s a step down from the D1 NCAA tourney in terms of the competition. Anakin is right that RandMo came out and played like trash in his first year at Kentucky and then stupidly entered the draft where he predictably didn’t get picked.
You and a lot of other people are reading a whole, whole lot into that one article that Sekou wrote about Siler. Never once did that article say or even imply that Siler was outplaying RandMo. It said he outmuscled him for the first couple days…but also referred to Siler as a “gentle giant,” which seemed to slip everyone’s attention.
I don’t feel like I’m going out at all on a limb by saying that I don’t think either of them will ever do a damned thing in the NBA. We’re talking about two guys who will be the 12th and 13th guys on the roster, and who might be on the inactive list for long stretches during the season. The talk about them playing against Howard and Shaq is moot because Woodson won’t let either within half a mile of the floor when we play Orlando or Cleveland.
These are mini-camp centers who went undrafted. I’ll say it once again – for the past ten years running, that description has without a single exception translated into “scrub.”
People seem to think I’m advocating RandMo as a better player than Siler. I’m not. I’m saying that neither is likely to play meaningful NBA minutes. Ever. The reason I’m advocating not signing Siler is because I think the odds are very good that we’ll be having the exact same conversation about him this time next year when mini-camp rolls around as we’re having about RandMo right now – ie we’ll be saying “the only reason he’s coming back is because he already has a contract.”
So a year from now when a full year has passed without Siler ever seeing the floor and – like with RandMo and the Big Greek before him – the blog crew starts touting some other mini-camp big man as the next savior…remember this thread. And you know what? I actually HOPE that I’m wrong.
niremetal
July 24th, 2009
11:00 pm
*aren’t against NBA players, not “against each other.” Don’t know what I was thinking there…
And this got cut off from the end of the second paragraph: But after RandMo went humbled back to Kentucky, he became one of the best D1 big men in the nation. Of course, we all know what’s happened since then…
Clyde
July 24th, 2009
11:21 pm
Is Hakim Warrick a center?
Melvin
July 24th, 2009
11:23 pm
Looks like we can cross Rasho off our wish list. Can the Hawks afford to let Joe Smith (or Siler) leave town without signing a contract. The big man market is becoming more bare by the day…
http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/2009/07/rashos-deal-is-done.html
Melvin
July 24th, 2009
11:28 pm
I wonder why Rasho is going to sign with the Raps. They didn’t make the playoffs last year and they have a log jam of big men (Bargnani, Bosh, Reggie Evans and Patrick O’Bryant) to play 4/5 spots… The things that make you say hmmm…
niremetal
July 24th, 2009
11:47 pm
I hate to get back into it
Heh…who am I kidding?
Clyde,
Is Hakim Warrick a center
Is Sean Williams?
Cowa
July 24th, 2009
11:50 pm
Rasho was either going to go back to Europe or to a team he felt “comfortable” with. With all the euros they have in Toronto, it made sense, especially since that’s where he came from prior to his trade to Indy. I don’t think there’s anything to read into here.
Cowa
July 24th, 2009
11:52 pm
You would think a guy like Warrick would jump at the chance to come to the Hawks after playing in purgatory, I mean Memphis. I would just offer him a one year deal with a team option for a second year. He’s 27 and should be in his prime right now. He and Smith would be a very good backup forward tandem.
Tyger
July 24th, 2009
11:56 pm
What did RandMo do in the SEC? Not much if you’re looking at NCAA career stats, but in today’s one and done world, how relevant is it that Tyler Hansborough is the all-time anything. The gifted dont stay.
Not that RandMo was great, but he certainly flashed it. Review his 33pt. jewel vs. NCarolina’s GWH Tyler Hansbrough and #5 pick Brandan Wright. I really wish people would stop drinking the kool-aid. Prior to Col. Shultz’s article the other day, everyone hated RandMo for no good reason, now they’re over-reacting to minutiae.
The guy plays 3min per game in Woody’s non-developmental system, for Gods sake get a grip, the kid runs up and down the court one or two times a game and he’s labeled a buster????
However, to Woody’s credit, outside of his Big Three Draftees (Smoove, Marvin, Horford) the others have had to earn their minutes. Solo didn’t play at all his 1st year, played more his 2nd year and was a consistent part of the rotation early in the season this past season.
So, I expect RandMo to play more this year. I believe in the kid. Its tough to be a 6′11 man-child, everyone expects you to be Kareem day 1 and that’s just not always realistic. Moreover, RandMo has taken responsibility too, he’s no longer bigger than everybody else and the game isn’t coming as easy as before, he realizes he actually has to push himself beyond his comfort zone.
I remember talking to Bernie Mullins about picking up RandMo after he left Kentucky and he “stupidly” responded with some nonsense about the ill-effects of RandMo/Jsmoove together on the same team. Kudos to Rick Sund for passing on that drink.
Remember, RandMo is from an elite class of Atlanta AAU prodigies: DHoward, JSmoove, RandMo, Mo Almond – another miss by the Hawks – but like Smoove, RandMo fell to the Hawks – its for them to make the most of it – develop him!
But how? Its easy to say D-League, D-League but back to the Solo model, is it better for the player to play big minutes in the D-league in a different system or to absorb the Hawks system his 1st year and be ready to contribute his 2nd/3rd year? Or maybe a hybrid? Training Camp, Preseason in the NBA and maybe the first half in the DLeague and a callup for the second half. Why? On a sorry team like the Hawks were 4 years ago, its easy to play rookies, but on a playoff caliber team, minutes are scarce.
Garrett Siler should’ve been drafted in the 2nd round – another miss by the Hawks – we should have rights to him – now he is an undrafted rookie free agent – he could spurn the Hawks’ overtures for better opportunities elsewhere. Why would he do that? Woodson’s track record with rookies for one, better money and playing opportunities for two and three.
But there’s a reason no one drafted Siler. Primarily his Div. II status, I’m not sure how many Div. II players are drafted but an educated guess is not many. Prime example, Flip Murray, Shaw University, still cant get paid after avg. 12ppg. and carrying the Hawks to the playoffs – he’s not supposed to be able to outplay the UCLAs and Dukies, he’s from Shaw for Gods sake! Where? Shaw? What? Shaw!!! Never heard of ‘em.
But Silas could clearly benefit from some DLeague time, he’s only played 4-5 years of ball, wont get many minutes if signed by Hawks and needs to learn how to run. I’d take him off the basketball court and have him work with a track guy, he needs to elongate his stride – he’s taking baby steps, folks are going to run right by him in the NBA. So, what effectiveness he would have with his additional girth is negated by his lack of speed. By the time he gets down the court their going back the other way. He’s got to get out of the blocks better, in this case, from the baseline to the FT, he’s got to haul ass. Needless to say, he needs alot of work, but I like him as a project.
JSS
July 25th, 2009
12:08 am
Clyde to answer your question and not use any snarky statement in doing so…
Warrick is a tweener SF/PF with a lot of talent…
N, you’re better than that… (Nothing personal, so don’t take in a bad way)
Ken Strickland
July 25th, 2009
12:09 am
All of this bantering back and forth about Siler and RMorris is both interesting and entertaining. But in the end, it’ll really be up to Woodson. If we sign a vet Big like JSmith to go with Zaza, it won’t matter which one makes the team because as we all know, Woodson won’t allow either one to unazz the bench.
I have to agree with NIRE. Woodson has demonstrated over the yrs that he’s not big on strategy and using his Bigs in matchup situations. he was also correct when he said Woodson will go ultra conservative, shorten is rotation and overplay his starters when we play top teams like Boston, Orlando and Cleveland. That approach means there will be no matchup attempts or strategy, and players like Siler, Morris, Teague, West, Hunter, Solo and Gardner will get no mins in those gms.
A more polished and less ridged HC could find ways to take advantage of the skills of both Siler and RMorris. Phil Jackson managed to win a few NBA titles with the Bulls by successfully managing a 3 man rotation at center, and using his bench liberally.
cp
July 25th, 2009
12:25 am
We cant afford to let Joe leave town without signing a contract. Tell him his plane is having engine trouble and there wont be another flight out of town until Sunday, something. Get this deal done. Then call up Warrick’s agent and tell him we want him. Is there a way to do a sign and trade between the Grizz and Hawks involving Evans? If so then that deal would be a no brainer.
Ariose
July 25th, 2009
4:59 am
Team USA mini-camp day 2 wrap-up
http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5700040584
Once again. Josh is not Representing us Hawks very well. It’s not that bat, I mean JJ DIDN’T EVEN SCORE in the All-Star game this year.
But it worries me to the point that I want to intervien. I don’t know hwat in the hell Mark Price is doing, but I think I can improve Josh’s jumpshot. I’ve helped ppl with theirs before( friends mainly) and I’m a good shooter myself(by my own estimation).
I guess I could get in touch with Louis(76ers) and try to set something up. I’m dead serious here too ppl. I just can’t take it anymore. Acie Law actually gave out his number on his blog(he might have changed it by now since moving to the bay area) maybe I can get in touch with Smoove through him?
I’m talking about a madjor Shot overhaul here. The thing has to go…..ALL OF IT.
1) He uses too much power which is why he airballs so much
2) So he needs a shot that relys on ball rotation and accuracy moreso than on distance-measuring….baisically a(JUMPSHOOTER) Ray Allen, Ben Gordon ,Matt Barnes, Jamario Moon type of shot where you elevate to your highest peak and rely on your aim/roataion rather than on your strength/muscle memory(SET SHOOTER) Ex: Mike Miller, Peja Stojokavic, Steve Nash, Austin Daye etc.
Josh shoots like the latter so far. He’s too strong/inaccurate for that.
As a big man, Think Glen Davis….that’s how Smoove needs to shoot.
3) Gotta get rid of his wasted motion. BIG problem. His shot is baisically like a human catapult. He beings the ball way back behind his head beore binging it forward and relasing. It throws off his accuracy and is a waste of energy. It works for guys like Michael Redd, but that’sbecause he’s a JUMPSHOOTER that relys only on rotation and the aim of his wrist so it works.
Josh is a SET SHOOTER so because his accuracy being off from the wasted motion is his shot(catapult) set shooters rely heavily on muscle memory and being able to exert the same/accurate amount of strength time and time agan from different points on the court in order to be consistant shoters. Well since his form is severly flawed, he is never able to have consistant muscle exertion. He is always exerting different levels of energy with each “set shot” without being able to gain any consistancy.
Haven’t you noticed that his shooting arm sometimes looks like a worm struggling to get free from a hook when it’s up in the air?? Like a wobbley noodle that you’re shaking with your hand. It’s the catapult effect…at least for him it is.
This can be fixed though. First his shot motion needs to be simplified and sreamlined.
1) He’s a heavy shoulder shooter so you can tell that they eye that he lines the basket up for his shot with is his left eye. So he’ll never have a typical “shot pocket” type of release (think Joe Johnson) his shot can be simplified(streamlined) too resemble other strong shoulder shooters (Like Steve Nash and Chauncey Billups).
I want to explain the eye thing a little more. JJ also aims with his left eye, BUT he shoots with his RIGHT ARM so his shot is centred because he’s bringig the ball over from his right side to the center of his body(the goal is to positon the ball as close to the eye you aim with as possible to acheive maximum accuracy) which puts the ball in the typical “shot pocket” and automatically cneters you for your shot.
Well since Josh is a lefite who alingns his targets with his left eye, the ball has to be put EVEN FURTHER TO THE LEFT in order for the ball to not impede his alignment/view.
To give you another example, Take Billups. He’s the opposite. Right arm to shoot, Rich eye used to align himself with the bucket, Steve Nash is the same also but they have to deal with the same issues as smoove.
The difference is:
1) They don’t waste motion(catapult)
2) thier boddies are centred twoards the gaoal when they shoot whereas smoove puts his left foot forward for his set shot, further throwing off his accuracy. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS TRY TO CENTER YOURSELF WOARDS THE BASKET WHEN SHOOTING A JUMPSHOT….ESPECIALLY IF YOU’RE NOT A GOOD SHOOTER LIKE SMOOVE.
Putting left foot forward+SlingShot+SetShot=DISASTER!!!!
If smoove were to be a jumpshooter instead of a set shooter, that effect would be nullified because you automaically center youself twords the basket when you’re in the air, regardless of where your feet where when you took off(that’s assuming your actually AIMING for the basket lol).
Ariose
July 25th, 2009
5:09 am
As you all know, the set shooter does not jump when he shoots. He barely leaves the ground. Using all that power from your legs+Arms is fine, when you have great form and you are always centred (Miller and Peja). But it reqires constant practice b/c muscle memory is key. You have to use the same amount of power EVERY TIME, thats somthing jumpshooters don’t have to worry about too much. As long as they elevate and fire it’s going in….or close to it. Set shooters (like smoove) are playing a constant measuring game, and when your shot has as many flaws in it as he does…….AIR BALL!!!!!!!!
I honestly think I can fix this. Like I said, I’ve helped ppl with their shots before; of cousre their’s didn’t have as many problems as Joshs does. But knowing whats wrong is half of the battle..
Ariose
July 25th, 2009
5:15 am
First I’ll show you guys some footage of jumpshooters
Glen Davis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HIToSvlsVA
Ariose
July 25th, 2009
5:37 am
Matt Barnes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNcIgrTTt7g&feature=PlayList&p=2F076232CBB36ECB&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=12
Ariose
July 25th, 2009
6:09 am
I showed you Nash, you can clearly see how much “shoulder” is in his shot.
Heres the my main Man Billups. He uses a lot of shoulder in his shot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9iKNgf9ybY
Ariose
July 25th, 2009
6:21 am
…I meant Steve nash has no LIFT at all..
Ariose
July 25th, 2009
6:26 am
See!!! This guy quickly goes over some of the things I talked about…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDxyxmiUHLM&feature=related
Myrak43
July 25th, 2009
6:54 am
Ok Ariose enough with the shooting leason…….. Drew Gooden will be choosing who is playing for soon. Between Pistons, Bucks, Cav’s, Bobcats. I wish he would come to the Hawks.
Myrak43
July 25th, 2009
7:00 am
Ok Ariose enough with the shooting lesson…….. Drew Gooden will be choosing who is playing for soon. Between Pistons, Bucks, Cav’s, Bobcats. I wish he would come to the Hawks. my spelling is weird in the morning!!! LOL
Big Ray
July 25th, 2009
7:23 am
Niremetal,
The article states that Siler was pushing the other big men around with not a single genuine hint of malice. All that means is that he’s bigger and stronger than anybody else on the floor during minicamp. So I don’t know what you are suggesting I or anybody else is reading into that. Sure, there are a few people who really mean it when they talk about putting this kid up against the famous big bodies of the NBA. I’m sure you’re smart enough to know who is serious and who knows the kid won’t be on the floor when those guys are playing.
You say you’re not making a case for RandMo in favor of Siler. I’ll take you at your word for it, but the mention of NCAA experience/status suggested otherwise. Personally, I don’t care if you are or not. I’m just telling you what it looked like (and apparently I’m not the only one who saw that, as several people are making comments about your SEC comments). I’m not saying your wrong, so don’t take this as such.
“I don’t feel like I’m going out at all on a limb by saying that I don’t think either of them will ever do a damned thing in the NBA.”
Yeah, I’d say you picked a safe statment to make. Besides, it’s all in the wording. You say you “don’t think” they will, which is not an absolute statment like “they won’t.” That’s definitely not stepping out on a limb. More like grabbing the trunk with both hands while lightly placing a toe on the limb.
“So a year from now when a full year has passed without Siler ever seeing the floor and – like with RandMo and the Big Greek before him – the blog crew starts touting some other mini-camp big man as the next savior…remember this thread. And you know what? I actually HOPE that I’m wrong.”
A couple things on that. Since you addressed me by name in this post, let me correct you on this “savior” thing. Not once did I even come close to insinuating, suggesting, or even alluding to ANYBODY in minicamp as a savior. I’m looking for a possible contributor from minicamp. I’d think the coaching staff is doing the same thing, As are you when you look at a guy like Othello Hunter (which I agree with) and Yaroslov Korolev…You did suggest that we needed a combo forward/small forward to play behind Marvin, did you not? See? Looking for a contributor. Else, why even bother with minicamp at all?
Remember this thread, eh? Do you remember who said what LAST year about RandMo, and Glyniadakis before that (that was the “big Greek’s” name)? Perhaps we can find a way to cast your immortal minicamp ponderings in bronze so that we shall not forget the divine teachings thereof, which with any luck shall disuade us from our foolish utterances this very time next year.
But I wouldn’t count on it…..
Big Ray
July 25th, 2009
7:32 am
Ariose,
Like anybody else here, I can only hope that Josh becomes a more efficient player on both ends of the floor. It bugs me that his jumper has not improved. No check that, it bothers me a good bit. I hope he has the motivation to improve it (and soon), but I also want him to play largely within his strengths WHILE strengthening his weaknesses.
And I hope he gets some help with that jumper. People can say all they want about him needing to do all his work inside. That’s bull$hit. Nearly every successful big man in the business not named Shaq or Dwight has a jumper of some kind. Duncan, Garnett, Jefferson, Bosh, Stoudamire…the list goes on. He needs a 15-18 footer. And he’s never going to be a dominant, stand-alone low post threat. It’s just NOT his game.
I hope he takes some good stuff back from this Olympic tryouts experience. None of the articles are showing him much favor. But I’m not going to read too much into that.
I’m much more concerned with what he does while wearing a Hawks uniform. This year is even more of a proving year. If he can’t improve significantly and help this team in better ways, it will be time to explore other options in earnest.
Ariose
July 25th, 2009
7:57 am
Big ray, All i’m sayin’is Mark Price ain’t earnin’ his keep lol. Where is he? Hello!!! EARTH TO MARK PRICE!!!
As far as i’m concerned Smoove should’ve moved into the Price Household as soon as our season ended lol.
That ‘Thing’ needs surgery lol….FAST. Like ER style.
…but i’ll gladly accept him just becoming a better all around player and contributing to even more team wins this year. BUT IT’S CLEAR HE’S GOING TO KEEP SHOOTING. SOMETHING MUST BE DONE. WHAT ARE THEY PAYING PRICE FOR? I’LL DO IT FOR FREE DAMMIT!! SOMBODY JUST FIX IT!!!
Ariose
July 25th, 2009
8:09 am
Ray, Yeah if you’re not Howard or Shaq, you’ve got to have some kind of Shot. And smoove would be the perfect hybrid if he did….a complete pain in the azz for any opposing team(he’s pretty much got that covred already).But more of then than not, it’s just us fans that get burned.
GET IT TOGETHER BIG FELLA I’M BEGGING YOU!!!! AS A FAN!!!!
SOMEBODY GET MARK PRICE ON THE PHONE. HIS AZZ SHOULD BE IN VEGAS CONSOLING SMOOVE RIGHT NOW…….THATS THE LEAST HE COULD DO…
Ariose
July 25th, 2009
8:10 am
*OFTEN
Big Ray
July 25th, 2009
8:25 am
Ariose,
Yeah, that and the free throws. Josh should definitely be in touch with Price, but I don’t know if they are allowed to do that during the offseason. Seems to me that players and members of the coaching staff don’t do stuff in the offseason like that.
So, we might have to find somebody else to get the job done. And as you suggest, it’s on Josh to do this. If he doesn’t, the chorus of “I told you so” will be defeaning. The bad part is, those who will be spouting it aren’t any better off than Smoove supporters if they are really Hawks fans. I sure hope this cat comes ready to play. I think he will, he has that fire. It just needs direction.
Hoops
July 25th, 2009
9:29 am
Ariose,
I’m with you on Josh Smith’s shot. I could fix it in three days. After three days he would have to be willing to practice the changes over the next month. The only problem with what you are saying and what I am saying is he must see the need to change. I’m not sure that he thinks his shot needs changing. Therefore the time used working with him would be a waste. Sad. He has soooooooo much talent! He doesn’t understand that shooting is a developed skill, not a GOD given talent. Too much of what Josh has, that makes him an NBA talent, was given to him by God and he has not had to develop it. Now he is being held back from greatness by his lack of skill development!
ILL-logical
July 25th, 2009
9:35 am
The nexus of most of the debate on this and related blog is Woodson and w/not this player or that player fits in. Or put another way, it’s not whether or not a particular player can play it’s whether that player can/ will play according to Woodson’s system.
This an important distinction because while he is the current incumbant head coach, there will come a time when he is not and if it is sooner than later, changes will have to be made that will have significant personnel implications.
Woodson has accomplished a lot during his tenure given the state of afairs at the time of his arrival. Besides the winning there is the off court conduct thst is in stark contrast to some of the other pro sports fiquers in town.However, when the talk turns to winning a championship he is not part of that conversation.
With the majority of their core players being under 25 ,yet experienced, the future appears to favor the Hawks.Someday the ownership issues will be resolved; someday a championship coach will be hired. It just won’t be today.
Ariose
July 25th, 2009
9:39 am
Pics From Las Vegas Mini-Camp
http://www.usabasketball.com/seniormen/2009/09_mnt_mini_camp_gallery/index.htm
NOT ONE PICK OF J-SMOOVE!!!!! WOW WE REALLY ARE THE OUTCASTS OF THE LEAUGE HUH? CANT WAIT TILL WE CRUSH EVERYBODY DURING THE REGULAR SEASON…
clint
July 25th, 2009
9:40 am
What about going after Hakim Warrick. The sorry grizz pulled their offer off the table from him and that makes him unrestricted. Be nice to have a shot blocker coming off the bench