Hawks courting Joe Smith?
Joe Smith (32) gave the Hawks all they could handle as he and his Cavaliers swept the birds out of the playoffs in May. The Hawks are in the process of recruiting him to help solidify their frontline rotation.
HAWKSVILLE - Who said the Hawks were done chasing big men this summer?
You didn’t hear it around these parts, at least not officially (from me).
Barring a last minute change of plans, veteran big man Joe Smith is scheduled to visit town on Wednesday, according to two of my best spies. And the Hawks are not out of the running for Ben Wallace, who has yet to agree to terms with Detroit (though, one of my best spies up north insists that it’s just a matter of time before Wallace returns to the Pistons).
A 6-10, 225-pound veteran of 14 NBA seasons, Smith showed he has plenty left in the tank against the Hawks in the Eastern Conference semifinals, averaging 4.8 rebounds, 3.3 points and 1.2 blocks in a little over 21 minutes per game. He’s got that “old man” strength that belies his seemingly slender frame. I watched him push the Hawks’ around in that series whenever he was on the floor.
Smith’s numbers (10.8 points and 5.5 rebounds) in the Cavaliers’ first round sweep of Detroit were even more impressive. He’s capable of that kind of production off the bench for a quality team, which speaks volumes for the type of veteran and pro that he has become since being the No. 1 overall pick in the 1995 draft.
Pair him on the frontline with Zaza Pachulia behind Josh Smith and Al Horford and the Hawks’ paper-thin frontcourt rotation suddenly takes on a different look. While it’s far from the “championship move” many have argued for around here, it’s certainly a move in the right direction (provided the Hawks are able to recruit him and sign him at some point between now and training camp).
The Hawks’ other big man options aren’t exactly ready to fade into the background. I mentioned Randolph Morris the other day and he’s shown well so far. Jeff Schultz caught up with him after Tuesday morning’s mini-camp practice for an interesting update on what he’s been up to this summer.
Another player to keep an eye on for a training camp invite is Othello Hunter. His minutes were sparse as a rookie last season, but the strides he made (physically and in his game) have been stunning to see from a year ago this time. It’s not clear right now what his future is with the Hawks. There are only going to be so many roster spots to go around. And without a guaranteed contract heading into camp, he’ll be gambling a bit if he comes to camp with the Hawks. But I like his game and what he brings in terms of a no-nonsense reserve that’s going to get to it whenever he’s asked.
I spoke with an Eastern Conference executive Tuesday afternoon that wanted to know what the Hawks were going to do with Solomon Jones. Funny, Jones asked me the same thing last week. I answered his question with the same question he asked me. He’s a restricted free agent, so you almost expect his summer to last a bit longer than most. Still, he’ll become an option for not only the Hawks but plenty of other teams looking to fill out the rotation with a long and athletic (even if he’s still a bit undersized) big that can play spot minutes when necessary.
Garret Siler has his chance to make an impression over the next 36 hours or so. He played well enough in summer league to get some looks from several other teams, so the Hawks will have to make a decision about what they want to do with him regarding training camp. One hilarious story that’s already made the mini-camp rounds is that it takes an entire roll of tape to properly tape up one of his ankles. I have to admit he is one of the largest human beings I can remember cutting corners in the hawks’ locker room during my time here. It’s on the floor, though, and particularly against Morris, Hunter and guys like Earl Barron, where we’ll be able to gauge Siler’s readiness for the rigors of the NBA.
There are still a few names left on the free agent radar, the most notable being Johan Petro. He hasn’t signed anywhere yet and could still be an option for the Hawks should things not work out with one of the other guys mentioned above.
Enough about these big men already. It’s time for some actual scrimmage action here shortly (the next time the Hawks have a mini-camp that has more drills than scrimmages in the first two days we should stage a non-violent protest in the name of the game). The blog will be open for business all night. I’ll be dipping back and forth between the blog and Twitter throughout the evening if you want to join the party.
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922 comments Add your comment
O'Brien
July 23rd, 2009
10:31 pm
Ken,
Although Crawford could provide minutes as our 3rd PG, what happens if Bibby gets injured? That would force us to either play Teague major minutes, or play Crawford major minutes at PG.
I dont think that would be a good situation for the Hawks. Thats why I suggest a 3rd string PG (who would only play spot minutes or in case of injuries) who thinks pass first.
Hoops
July 23rd, 2009
10:43 pm
O’Brien,
A third PG? Flip can play PG and back up Crawford @ SG when JJ goes to SF to back up Marvin (if he will ever sign).
O'Brien
July 23rd, 2009
11:05 pm
Hoops,
Flip averaged 24 minutes per game last year. If Bibby plays 30 minutes per game, and Teague gets 10-15 minutes per game, there isnt any PT left for Flip (unless there is injuries). And I would hate for Flip to take away all of Teague’s PT (which is what happened with Acie last year).
And both Flip and Crawford are similar players (who need the ball), so I dont think we want Flip and Crawford on the court at the same time.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 23rd, 2009
11:08 pm
“Now that would be a good place for Shelden.. Phil has a long history of taking limited skill players and getting maximum levels out of them… Will Perdue, Bill Whittington, Luc Longley, Stacey King, on and on and on…”
Actually the first player who came to mind was Mark Madsen to me… Shelden would make a perfect black Mark Madsen.
niremetal
July 23rd, 2009
11:21 pm
O’Brien,
The real question is – why would Ratliff sign with us over the Spurs?? He’ll get more minutes in San Antonio than he’ll get here AND he has a better shot at winning a title there. The Spurs didn’t have a single “true center” on their roster (although Duncan could be a “true center” if he weren’t so great as a PF, and if he didn’t fit so perfectly as PF in Pop’s system). He’ll be either a starter or the first frontcourt player off the bench in SA, and will likely get a number of calls as a starter when Duncan needs to rest his knees. In Atlanta, he’d be the second frontcourt player off the bench.
I’m sorry, but it still amazes me that even the more intelligent posters on here (which does include you) occasionally seem to slip into thinking that the Real NBA is like NBA Live, and you can get any player you want as long as you get to him first…
Ray,
Notice that I said that Korolev has more than of a SF game than Hunter. But since you asked, Hunter looked much more comfortable handling the ball in his summer league clips than I expected. I wouldn’t want him playing lots of minutes at SF, not by any means. But we are really, really thin at forward right now, and I think Hunter could play some emergency minutes at both forward spots if the need arose. And with mini-camp guys, that’s all you can ask – someone who can give you “emergency minutes.”
Right now, we have 9 guys under contract: Bibby, Teague, JJ, Crawford, Mo, Josh, Al, Zaza, and RandMo. I’m gonna assume we re-sign Marvin, which gives us 10. I’m also guessing we add one more veteran PF/C, which would give us 11. That would leave 3 roster spots to be filled, assuming the Hawks do what most teams do and keep 14 players under contract. Based on the makeup of that roster and where we might need “emergency bodies,” I hope those three spots are filled by two forwards and a big man. My order of guys I’d like to see for those spots are Hunter, Korolev, and Siler. If I ruled the world, I’d want to get one forward first, and then I don’t know whether I would pick another forward or a fourth center.
And in any case, I’m not a scout. I’m going based on an incredibly small amount of information about each of these guys. And when you’re talking about guys coming out of mini-camp, I can’t get too huffed about any of them being cut, because if any of these guys were world-beaters or even if they had the potential to be world-beaters, odds are that they wouldn’t need to go to a mini-camp to fight for a job. That goes doubly for big men, for all the reasons I’ve said already.
I just don’t want people kidding themselves into thinking that there’s more than a 50:1 chance that any of the mini-camp players who don’t have a contract will become a rotation player in the NBA. Because if you look at NBA teams’ mini-camp rosters from years past, you’ll notice that it honestly is about that proportion – for every 4 teams’ mini-camp rosters, there’s usually only 1 guy who ever plays “real” minutes in the NBA.
So I guess I should say: “I won’t cry about us cutting any one of these guys individually.” Ok, I might shed one tear for Hunter, but that’s just because I liked the heart he showed in the few minutes he saw the floor last year (anyone else remember the hard foul he put on Joe Smith during Game 2?) and because he goes after every rebound like it’s the last basketball in the world. But in the end, I’ll come back to my senses and realize that THESE ARE JUST MINI-CAMP PLAYERS!!!!!!!
Ken
July 23rd, 2009
11:22 pm
O’Brien, I see your point, I think the prevailing thought was if we lose a key starter than that’s the season. But yes we should be prepared for the worse should something like that happen. We know we’re cash strapped though and only few spot remain. I think we need least two more bigs (considering Randmo already under contract). I like Siler and of course Joe Smith (if we can get him). Think that leaves one, maybe two spots left. I’d like a combo forward that can defend, shoot, and handle the ball some. Considering what’s left Flip may be best option. And if Joe Smith falls thru, I think you can shut it down for the bigger name guys.
niremetal
July 23rd, 2009
11:26 pm
Ray,
Ha…just read the second post you made re: Siler/Hunter/Korolev. As you can see from my above post, I’m VERY aware that the same logic applies to Korolev and Hunter. The only reason I’ve been talking about Siler is because he’s the only mini-camp player about whom people are actively saying “Sund will prove he is a cheap retard if he doesn’t sign him.” But I’m sure you already knew that…
Najeh,
Nah, I don’t see him as a Madsen. Shelden doesn’t have Madsen’s moves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpbXl5Sp-Wc
niremetal
July 23rd, 2009
11:33 pm
Ha, and just so Sautee doesn’t slam me:
The “50:1″ proportion is limited to guys on mini-camp rosters who are undrafted and/or don’t have a contract (ie, everyone but Teague (just drafted and under contract) and Gladyr (just drafted) would qualify from this year’s mini-camp roster, and everyone but Speedy (under contract) and Acie (under contract) would qualify from last year’s Hawks minicamp roster). But just Google old NBA minicamp and summer league rosters, and you’ll see that the proportion for those guys is really 1 for every 4 or so teams…
O'Brien
July 23rd, 2009
11:34 pm
nire,
I just wonder if the Hawks had approached him 2,3 weeks ago and offered him a contract, maybe he would have signed with them rather than waiting to see who else makes an offer.
But you do make a good point, because if I was Theo, I would have signed with the Spurs (instead of the Hawks).
Melvin
July 23rd, 2009
11:57 pm
From Sekou twitter page:
Hawks’ wooing of Smith will last into Friday. Zaza Pachulia said he’s “working on him.” They were teammates in Milwaukee. ZP loves Smith!
@Brotha2ThaNite On the road all day, 12 hours of driving. This is why I fly!!! Siler played well, from all reports.
I know I’m “vacation” … but Hawks wined and dined Joe Smith at NY Prime 2night. British open champ and Woody posed for pictures, too.
Ariose
July 24th, 2009
1:43 am
From Some guy covering USA Mini-Camp on Twitter
“USA Basketball Scrimmage White Team: Harris, Durant, Mayo, **Smith**, and Oden owned today…”
niremetal
July 24th, 2009
2:06 am
PS – The love for Siler and hate for RandMo is kinda odd considering that RandMo apparently has worked his butt off this summer both literally and figuratively. He also has nice touch on his J, which I didn’t expect. But first impressions are hard to get past and RandMo’s first impression this past year was pretty awful.
Deep
July 24th, 2009
2:20 am
I don’t think it’s hate for Randmo, I think it’s excitement for Siler. I think Siler could become good. Not All-Star good, but productive good. But hey, if Woodson chooses Morris over Siler I’ll be ok with that too. These aren’t are starters we’re talking about, nor even our second string.
I hope the Hawks play in Portland this year, I’d love to catch a game. Too bad the Sonics are gone or I could’ve caught more than one.
Deep
July 24th, 2009
2:22 am
If Smith (Josh) steps up his game a notch, with all the national publicity, maybe the Hawks could have two All-Stars
niremetal
July 24th, 2009
2:28 am
Deep,
I agree that people are excited by Siler. But about a half dozen people have praised Siler for dropping weight and working hard. RandMo? Notsomuch. But you’re right, it’s been more Siler love than RandMo hate.
My girlfriend’s a Portland native and big Blazers fan…first time I’ve seen a Portland-ite on the blog though
Atlanta Hawks are targetting Joe Smith?
July 24th, 2009
3:09 am
[...] north insists that it
hawkeye
July 24th, 2009
4:09 am
hey guys what’s the latest news on flip? can we trade evans and sign flip instead? i think we don’t need evans anymore cause he’s just too small to play the SF position if smoove will play the 3 spot after acquiring a center that’ll make marvin our backup SF so what are we going to do with evans? i think it will only be a waste to have him here cause its pretty obvious that flip plays the backup 2 spot far more better than evans and besides we already have crawford to do the job. i think we’ll be a better team if we have bench combo of crawford and flip rather than the flipmo squad.
hawkeye
July 24th, 2009
4:11 am
…and flip is more of a clutch player than evans.
MannyT
July 24th, 2009
7:24 am
niremetal,
RandMo got his irrational blog love last summer. Check the archives. It will be someone else next summer. Just the nature of things with summer basketball blogging.
For all those folks that are slightly surprised when we do not get an unrestricted free agent, you really need to have someone help you with the long term memory. While we hope to turn that corner, free agents have not seen the Hawks as a desirable location since the days of Steve Smith wearing #8.
Not that I have ever seen the guy, but Korolev is 6′ 9″. but says he weighs 203, so he is skinnier than Chills. In my favorite 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon thang, maybe he will make the team as a ironic link to his former teammate–David Andersen.
BWAF
JSS
July 24th, 2009
7:29 am
With Randolph it is because you want to say: “FINALLY!!!” Moreover, it was not until last week that any one had heard even an inkling that he was putting some form of effort in… But I’m ecstatic if Morris shows the 1/3 of the offensive presence that he “supposedly” had at UK. I’ll take the combo of a new breed Clifford Ray/Nate Thurmond center clone readily…
doc
July 24th, 2009
7:45 am
hawkeye welcome to the club.
no hate here on randmo, just noting the differences in siler and randmo in distinction of what we are missing, another bruiser that has more ability that to kick the star player into the dl. joe smith doesnt really answer that, like thomas’ name around here but he doesnt either so take a chance on siler and the future unless there is someone out there that can do the job. would rather him that mario because teague and mo evans ought to be able to do that kind of dirty work as needed.
Daniel
July 24th, 2009
8:31 am
Good morning crew,
Not much new in Hawks world today.
Darrell, I am going to answer your question from yesterday,
assuming a roster of 14 this is what I would like (and think is reasonable)
Bibby, Joe, Marvin, Josh, Al, Crawford, Teague, Za, Evans, Joe Smith, Nesterovic, (Flip/Lue/jackson), Siler, Korolev
Jon
July 24th, 2009
9:57 am
Hey guys. Here’s a link for you. It’s a lot of the same stuff we’ve already talked about but it will help pass the time until there is some real news…
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/hawks/notes.htm?csp=34
G-Dot
July 24th, 2009
10:03 am
Where is the love for MARIO WEST! Bring that boy back here. You always need a hustle guy on the end of your bench.
ILL-logical
July 24th, 2009
10:19 am
The deafening silence coming from the blog captain ,SS, has ominous overtones. Can we be facing ,once again, the prospect of being rejected by the sought after free agent? Are we still being regarded as the team whose coach and management are not considered in very positive light by players with any staure/experience in the league? Or will there be a surprise announcement that doesn’t involve Cleveland?
Melvin
July 24th, 2009
10:20 am
Jon,
Thanks for the link. Base on Woody comments about Teague, I expect he’s going to play him meaningful mins this season.
Ken Strickland
July 24th, 2009
10:26 am
NIREMETAL-Look at your assessment of Siler from another perspective. How many NBA players got drafted that shouldn’t have been drafted? Teams can miss both ways. Ben Wallace went undrafted and sat on a couple of benches before getting into the right situation and becoming a starter, an Allstar and NBA champion. I also remember another undrafted center named Clifford Ray, who started for the Bulls and started for the NBA champion Warriors, when they had Jamaal Wilkes and Rick Barry.
He’s not expected to be a savior, just an effective inside presence in certain situations. Granted, he’s coming to the wrong team if he expects Woodson to gove him any meaningful playing time or any concern for, or attention to, his individual development. But like BIG RAY said, you can’t teach height, size or self-motivation.
As far as the Solo vs Joe Smith debate is concerned, Joe Smith would be the better choice. It’s not a matter of Solo’s younger are or possible greater upside. It’s a matter of which player will get more mins and be allowed to be more productive. We’ve already seen how Woodson values Solo and his potential. I doubt if he’d have the same passive attitude and unwillingness to play JSmith consistent mins that he’s exhibited towards Solo the last 2yrs.
I don’t know about everyone else, but I want the player, or players, on the bench that stands the best chance of getting consistent mins and the best opportunity from Woodson to produce.
Melvin
July 24th, 2009
10:26 am
ILL,
I think for Smith to visit the Hawks says that he’s interested in joining this team but if the Hawks don’t sign him than have one or two thoughts. Either we have cheap owners or an incompetent GM. Either way, we are screwed….:(
Stating the Obvious
July 24th, 2009
10:26 am
Sekou’s on vacation, so his silence just means that he’s doin his thang.
Melvin
July 24th, 2009
10:42 am
Josh showing Kevin ‘No’ Love…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5lVUZMZetg
niremetal
July 24th, 2009
10:54 am
Melvin,
Lol… way to set them up for failure.
1) Joe Smith is 34 and has never played in the NBA Finals. I think that if he signs with the Clippers, then yeah I’m with you. But if he signs with the Cavs or Lakers, that doesn’t say anything about ASG or Sund being cheap or incompetent.
2) He’s also never lived in Atlanta, so taking a few days to see the city doesn’t necessarily show a high level of interest in the city or the team. Also, dunno if you heard, but Atlanta is one of the most popular places to visit for NBA players because of the night life and Friedman’s. But he might view Atlanta the same way I do (and I grew up there) – nice place to visit, but wouldn’t want to live there.
3) If he ultimately ends up signing elsewhere, why would the fact that the team spent 3 days wining and dining him show that they are incompetent or cheap rather than show that they did everything they could and came up short? We can’t wrestle the guy to the ground and force him to sign a contract. Again, this isn’t NBA Live.
Big Ray
July 24th, 2009
10:58 am
Niremetal,
Oh, I get what you’re saying. I wouldn’t worry too much about people getting too amped up about minicamp participants making major contributions. Some people will do it anyway, and others will misconstrue what some of us are saying (summer blogging at it’s best, as MannyT has noted) about minicamp and minicamp invitees.
And trust me, I’ll share that tear with you on Hunter if he doesn’t make it. I think we ought to hold onto that kid. I DID notice that his handle and jumper didn’t look bad at all. I’d like to see him get some of the opportunities Solo got last year (real game time minutes).
As for Randolph Morris, his offensive game looks smoother than ever. I like that, but I also recognize that he needs to use that big body in other ways. If he can’t, chances are that he won’t see the floor anymore than he did last year, or only marginally so. Not that this is another knock against Woody
, but he doesn’t exactly think “offense” when he looks at a 6′10″/270 lb body. He thinks “defense, rebounding.” Hope RandMo realizes that this is the path out of the Woodson outhouse. This, and no other. Especially with a couple of new guards to work with.
Daniel
July 24th, 2009
11:01 am
ILL and Melvin-
Man you guys are so negative on this Joe Smith thing. Sekou said he would be off line for vaca. So far Sund has done a great job resigning are vets to favorable contracts. This thing is FAR from over.
Daniel
July 24th, 2009
11:06 am
Big Ray- the ONLY reason Randolph Morris will get a chance with the Hawks is because he is already under contract. If the dude were a free agent, he would be gone. His offensive game looks smoother? Than what? That is like saying the urine tastes better when you add some sugar. It is still just p*ss. The guy is a horrible basketball player who barely looks like he belongs on the minicamp court with a bunch of undrafted players. He is garbage. Oh, yeah I know he was an AAU stud. That and two dimes and you will still be short of a quarter.
Big Ray
July 24th, 2009
11:08 am
Melvin,
Have to agree with Nire on this one. We’re still working under the stigma of a losing franchise, which does nothing to help us with free agents. Not that you have to, as I figure your memory is as good as mine, but what have our free agent acquisitions looked like the last 5-6 years? The best players we have we either traded for or drafted. Yeah, Joe Johnson WANTED to be here, but his acquisition was still a trade (that’s another story altogether). Hell, even Anthony Johnson didn’t come here of his own accord (not that I was impressed with him), but via trade. Otherwise…would he have come? I’d say our best willing FA acquisition has been Flip Murray, and that’s because he couldn’t find a job in the U.S.
I’m not going to pound Sund for not being able to convince a guy like Smith to sign here. We’ve had one winning season. Let us have a couple more, and we can show that the culture has changed from perennial losing to consistent winning. THEN, we will begin to see an increase in FA migration.
That, and how much should we expect them to give a guy like Smith for his services? Should they “overpay” for a 34 year old forward, just to show they’re not cheap? If Sund does that, and Smith doesn’t provide much (or Woody doesn’t play him or involve him much), then I can predict the future:
Without a doubt, several people will then bash Sund for overpaying yet another big man who doesn’t produce. Oh, it will be all too convenient.
The thing that bothers me is that if we do NOT get a decent veteran big signed, we WILL be looking at a handful of minicamp invitees instead.
Big Ray
July 24th, 2009
11:17 am
Daniel,
I believe I stated several times that Morris is under contract already, throughout several of my posts. So I KNOW what his status is. In fact, I made one short post stating that there would be no choice of Siler over RandMo, due to that particular fact.
And I’ve also stated that while his offensive game is polished (something even Sekou said when we FIRST signed the guy last year), we don’t need a guy that big for the purpose of shooting jumpers and hitting hook shots. That’s not what Woody wants either. We need a rugged defender and rebounder.
Finally, when did I ever mention AAU ball? Dude, read my posts all the way through. Here lately, you’ve been coming at me with stuff I don’t say, and repeating my own stuff back to me, as if I needed to be convinced of my own points of view. WTF?
Big Ray
July 24th, 2009
11:21 am
I don’t know how realistic it is to think we can sign Drew Gooden. Unless the Spurs somehow think they don’t need him, I see the guy staying.
Having said that, I’ll also say something I’ve been saying since the Jamal Crawford trade: The offseason is NOT over. We may see a trade later on, as Astro Joe has already predicted. You never know.
I have a hard time with the idea of us settling for mincamp invitees, for the purposes of shoring up our frontcourt. I just don’t see that, though it’s possible. No, somebody will likely get signed or traded for. But no sense in getting antsy about it right now. Late July and early August are usually slow down times in the offseason. May be a few weeks before we see anything happen at all. Or, we might see Joe Smith signed. Never can tell.
tribe
July 24th, 2009
11:43 am
what happened with theo
oberto
come on sund
get us some bigs#
and is woodson saying he doesnt want ppl to shoot 3s the bigs that is, is he taking a shoot at smoove or something
lol @ siler talking about zaza being small hahaha
hopefullz the guy can help us if we sign him
Melvin
July 24th, 2009
11:54 am
Nire and Big Ray,
Comeon, you all should have known by now that I was poking a stick at Nire. I knew he wouldn’t let a comment like that go by without a response…:)
Nire,
I think you are being a little too modest about Smith visit. He’s probably a second tier FA and most of the Championship caliber teams (Orl,SA,Cle,Bos,LA) have made their FA acqusitions. Not sure if Smith have that many options left, if he want to be apart of a winning team.
Ray, if the Hawks overpay for a FA I don’t think folks will condemn the GM for it but if they do, so what? There’s always someone(s) thats going to disagree with his decisions…:) I think it would be more of a indictment on that player (remember Speedy) if they don’t play up to expectations. Besides, not signing anybody is not a solution either (unless we make trade like you and Anankin hinted to). We need depth in the frontcourt. It’s broke, so let’s fix it.
Daniel,
I did mention anything about Sekou. So what’s your point?
MannyT
July 24th, 2009
11:56 am
My only question about the (under)usage of RandMo in the past season is why didn’t we use his strengths?
I get that Woody is a defense first guy. I also understand that the nails in my garage get more points in the post than the Hawks. Why didn’t we give him a shot when we needed to get some offense down low?
All that said, the defense first thing is exactly why Siler might get a shot here. If he carries 300 lbs well, it is a very unique defensive skill. Keep the other team’s big guy away from the low block. In the east, the big guy now includes Shaq as well as D. Howard.
BWAF
bigdave
July 24th, 2009
12:07 pm
Melvin… that was pure filth… im going out on a limb here but…
Josh Smith> Amare
Ken Strickland
July 24th, 2009
12:11 pm
BIG RAY-If we’re unable to get one of the remaining vet Bigs to sign with us, we do have Solo on hold. We’ve been lucky the last couple yrs, in that our primary Big off the bench, Zaza, hasn’t been lost for an extended period of time. But if he goes down, what do we do. It seems rather stupid for a HC to put himself in a situation where he might have to depend on a backup center for an entire season that he didn’t trust enough to play more than a few inconsistent mins every few gms or so. This is why I hope we can sign Joe Smith, plus he gives us more flexibility.
Like you said, scoring isn’t our biggest problem, but how we score often is. We need a stronger inside presence on the DEF end, especially with the teams ahead of us in the Eastern conference getting bigger, and our unwillingness to take full advantage of our speed, quickness and athleticism by committing to an uptempo style of OFF.
The upcoming season is going to be very interesting indeed.
Big Ray
July 24th, 2009
12:11 pm
Melvin,
Sorry, didn’t know you were baiting the hook with Nire’s favorite flavor…
As for “overpaying” for a FA big, I’m just pointing out what some people will typically do. Knight got bashed for signing Claxton. I’m kinda 50-50 on that one. I wouldn’t have paid a guy that kind of dough, knowing his butt has typically not stayed healthy, but at the same time, we needed a vet pg who could pressure the ball, and who knew he was going to lay out damn near his entire time here?
I agree that a player not producing reflects on the player, but the man who signs him will always take some heat for it. The coach will too, if the player doesn’t get sufficient PT, or gets misused. But that’s typical banter.
I agree, we need to fix the problems. However, easier for us to say this than for Sund to do it. Much easier.
MannyT,
You know that this is a whole other conversation. I give it 5 seconds after Ken Strickland sees your post, and comes back with about 19 paragraphs explaining WHY Woody did not take advantage of RandMo’s offensive skills. And about 10 seconds after that, Daniel will see it, and tell you that RandMo’s skills are simply sugar-flavored urine.
I’ll go ahead and summarize what Ken is going to say (and he won’t be telling any lies): Woody is not overly concerned with scoring in the frontcourt. He wants the bulk of his offense coming from the perimeter. And big men are useful for defense and rebounding. Of course, I’m open to suggestions of evidence to the contrary….
Big Ray
July 24th, 2009
12:21 pm
Ken,
Right on. I hope we can get Smith as well. All I can say is that if Sund can supply Woody with another veteran big of any decent caliber, it will be squarely on Woody to get it done with those players. The thing is, you work with what you’ve got. That’s your job as a coach. Try to make the best of it. Surely Woody is not as naive as some of us, to believe that Sund can get any good veteran big man he wants. It doesn’t always shake out that way. So, you take the guys you do have and try to mold them into the kind you can depend on.
I won’t lay it all on Woody. A player has to be self-motivated, eager to learn, and otherwise coachable. If not, then neither Woody nor his staff can make that player into something useful. However, you CAN take a guy who is making the effort, and help mold him or use him in the best way possible. THAT is where I hold Woody and his staff responsible.
Obviously, the clearest example is Mario West. He is all effort, hustle, desire. He has no particular basketball skills or talents to speak of. Yet, Woody found ways to use him. I’d think that if guys like Hunter, Solo, Siler, etc have a fraction of West’s desire and effort, then Woody can find ways to use them as well.
Again, not suggesting that they are the ultimate solutions to our problems. I still am not enamored of our offensive scheme (and I have already heard the rebuttal to this many times, and it STILL makes no sense coming from some people).
But I also know we are lacking some talent in our areas of weakness. But if lemons you have, then lemonade you make, the best you can. Nobody says it has to be perfect. Just maximized.
Surely it cannot be unreasonable to expect the same effort from the coaching staff that they require from the players.
Big Ray
July 24th, 2009
12:22 pm
“If he carries 300 lbs well, it is a very unique defensive skill. Keep the other team’s big guy away from the low block. In the east, the big guy now includes Shaq as well as D. Howard.”
Honestly, that is my whole case for Siler right there…
doc
July 24th, 2009
12:33 pm
6 meaningful fouls from siler on howard where he took some punishment is what we need. horford just isnt able to do that at 240. ill take my chances with the kid to just do that. one skill is all they need to teach him in preseason .. how to foul. coach him up woody …… heh heh.
niremetal
July 24th, 2009
12:45 pm
If all we need is fouls, then there seriously is no reason to sign Siler when RandMo is already under contract…
And I’m amazed that anyone would rather have Siler guarding Howard than Horford. Wow…
MannyT
July 24th, 2009
12:49 pm
niremetal, I think you need more than 6 fouls to guard Howard. Once you start moving down the bench, I think I am willing to give Siler a shot based on the uniqueness of his bulk (as long as he is athletic.)
Solo doesn’t work for me in that scenario. Too easy to get him under the basket where shot blocking is neutralized.
Not a make or break team decision. I am not saying cut Horford and replace him with Siler. As yuo fill out a roster, his size might come in handy.
BWAF
doc
July 24th, 2009
12:51 pm
randmo is not physical. his 270 pounds doesnt come close to what siler has to offer. dont play dumb nire to make conversation. if you dont know why some of these guys stick for so long like a pollard or magliore then you been watching another league dude.
MannyT
July 24th, 2009
12:55 pm
Ray, I know my advocacy of using a guy’s strengths is shared by some bloggers and poo poo-ed by others. Bottom line–if a guy is on the roster, use him for what he is good at or why have him there?
Those guys can rationalize Woody’s actions all they want. At the end of the day Woody will shorten the bench and do what he does…it’s his job risk…so be it. I think I can be wrong all day long and I’ll still get my call from the season ticket office. On my end, renewal trumps basketball knowledge every time.
BWAF