Hawks courting Joe Smith?
Joe Smith (32) gave the Hawks all they could handle as he and his Cavaliers swept the birds out of the playoffs in May. The Hawks are in the process of recruiting him to help solidify their frontline rotation.
HAWKSVILLE - Who said the Hawks were done chasing big men this summer?
You didn’t hear it around these parts, at least not officially (from me).
Barring a last minute change of plans, veteran big man Joe Smith is scheduled to visit town on Wednesday, according to two of my best spies. And the Hawks are not out of the running for Ben Wallace, who has yet to agree to terms with Detroit (though, one of my best spies up north insists that it’s just a matter of time before Wallace returns to the Pistons).
A 6-10, 225-pound veteran of 14 NBA seasons, Smith showed he has plenty left in the tank against the Hawks in the Eastern Conference semifinals, averaging 4.8 rebounds, 3.3 points and 1.2 blocks in a little over 21 minutes per game. He’s got that “old man” strength that belies his seemingly slender frame. I watched him push the Hawks’ around in that series whenever he was on the floor.
Smith’s numbers (10.8 points and 5.5 rebounds) in the Cavaliers’ first round sweep of Detroit were even more impressive. He’s capable of that kind of production off the bench for a quality team, which speaks volumes for the type of veteran and pro that he has become since being the No. 1 overall pick in the 1995 draft.
Pair him on the frontline with Zaza Pachulia behind Josh Smith and Al Horford and the Hawks’ paper-thin frontcourt rotation suddenly takes on a different look. While it’s far from the “championship move” many have argued for around here, it’s certainly a move in the right direction (provided the Hawks are able to recruit him and sign him at some point between now and training camp).
The Hawks’ other big man options aren’t exactly ready to fade into the background. I mentioned Randolph Morris the other day and he’s shown well so far. Jeff Schultz caught up with him after Tuesday morning’s mini-camp practice for an interesting update on what he’s been up to this summer.
Another player to keep an eye on for a training camp invite is Othello Hunter. His minutes were sparse as a rookie last season, but the strides he made (physically and in his game) have been stunning to see from a year ago this time. It’s not clear right now what his future is with the Hawks. There are only going to be so many roster spots to go around. And without a guaranteed contract heading into camp, he’ll be gambling a bit if he comes to camp with the Hawks. But I like his game and what he brings in terms of a no-nonsense reserve that’s going to get to it whenever he’s asked.
I spoke with an Eastern Conference executive Tuesday afternoon that wanted to know what the Hawks were going to do with Solomon Jones. Funny, Jones asked me the same thing last week. I answered his question with the same question he asked me. He’s a restricted free agent, so you almost expect his summer to last a bit longer than most. Still, he’ll become an option for not only the Hawks but plenty of other teams looking to fill out the rotation with a long and athletic (even if he’s still a bit undersized) big that can play spot minutes when necessary.
Garret Siler has his chance to make an impression over the next 36 hours or so. He played well enough in summer league to get some looks from several other teams, so the Hawks will have to make a decision about what they want to do with him regarding training camp. One hilarious story that’s already made the mini-camp rounds is that it takes an entire roll of tape to properly tape up one of his ankles. I have to admit he is one of the largest human beings I can remember cutting corners in the hawks’ locker room during my time here. It’s on the floor, though, and particularly against Morris, Hunter and guys like Earl Barron, where we’ll be able to gauge Siler’s readiness for the rigors of the NBA.
There are still a few names left on the free agent radar, the most notable being Johan Petro. He hasn’t signed anywhere yet and could still be an option for the Hawks should things not work out with one of the other guys mentioned above.
Enough about these big men already. It’s time for some actual scrimmage action here shortly (the next time the Hawks have a mini-camp that has more drills than scrimmages in the first two days we should stage a non-violent protest in the name of the game). The blog will be open for business all night. I’ll be dipping back and forth between the blog and Twitter throughout the evening if you want to join the party.
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922 comments Add your comment
Melvin
July 23rd, 2009
4:42 pm
All this Siler talk got me sidetrack. I forgot about my boy Ryan Hollins. Forget Theo. AROISE, start the Hollins express up….
Get it done Sund…
Deep
July 23rd, 2009
4:43 pm
My ideal rotation at this point
Pg- Bibby, Flip, Teague
Sg- JJ, Crawford
Sf- Marvin, Mo, Korolev
Pf- Josh, Joe Smith, Hunter (or Solo)
C- Horford, ZaZa, Siler
I know it’s 14 players not 13 but it will give Siler a chance to be around the NBA level and maybe see limited action until he can show us what he can do….. I give him the edge over Morris
Melvin
July 23rd, 2009
4:46 pm
After futher review, Ariose don’t even bother finding the keys b/c we wont out bid Mark Cuban. So scratch two more off our list… Have we sign Siler and Smith yet???????????
“After Orlando’s unexpected decision to match Dallas’ five-year, $34 million offer to restricted free agent Marcin Gortat, look for the Mavericks to re-sign Ryan Hollins, their own restricted free-agent center. The Mavs also are on the list of teams in the mix to sign Drew Gooden with a slice of the cash they got back when the Gortat offer sheet was matched.
Marc Stein is the senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. “
Ariose
July 23rd, 2009
4:47 pm
I like Korolev, How Tall is he? Could he be our third SF?
MannyT with another good Russian Reversal!! lol
UGA
July 23rd, 2009
4:48 pm
Aaron Gray from the Bulls, he’s a RFA. Big body, just a suggestion.
Ariose
July 23rd, 2009
4:50 pm
Melvin, I agree. Cubes isn’t leting go of Hillins anytime soon lol. Especially after getting played by Orlando like that hehehe…
Ariose
July 23rd, 2009
4:51 pm
*Hollins
wordsmithtom
July 23rd, 2009
4:54 pm
With Teague, we no longer need West. Teague will get those “hustle” minutes as Woodson won’t want to piss off the GM for not playing his pic. Plus, from what we see in minicamp, “Teague gets anywhere on the court he wants to”…. That’s what we need in an energy player.
Silo over Solo
More beef….and willingness to bung. Listening to Woodson’s comments, he almost signed Solo’s ticket out of town. Without a question, we need someone who’ll come in and take a few fowls from the likes of Shaq and Co. Solo tried, but he was way too light, and wanted to shoot from the outside the same as Smith. He didn’t play his role. Silo seems to be a guy who understands the role a man of his size can play.
Sign Silo and develop him. He’ll come in handy next March/April, I’ll assure you.
Deep
July 23rd, 2009
4:56 pm
You guys think Joe Smith will sign a contract in the next two days if he’s going to play here or do you think he’ll wait? I couldn’t stand to wait and have another team pick him up…
Ken Strickland
July 23rd, 2009
4:56 pm
DANIEL-my bench would be comprised of Crawford, Teague, Siler, Smith, Hunter, Zaza and Evans.
Ariose
July 23rd, 2009
5:06 pm
Hunter over Solo????? I’m Asking…. I’m don’t really have an opinion either way, but I did value solo’s contributions.
Ariose
July 23rd, 2009
5:07 pm
How about Siler+Solo?
O'Brien
July 23rd, 2009
5:12 pm
In regards to the Mo Evans PT question, how about this. Since we have Crawford to backup JJ, that should cut down on JJ’s minutes at SG. So when Marvin needs a break, cant we play JJ at the SF position for a few minutes?
JJ is a legit 6′7″, 240, so when we play the bigger SF’s, we can play JJ at SF for a few minutes when Marvin goes to the bench (Crawford will be the SG). And when we play smaller SF’s, Mo Evans can be our backup SF off the bench.
What do you guys think?
I MUS WRITE
July 23rd, 2009
5:24 pm
I hear you Melvin…… I would’nt mind being on the pay role LOL
Ken
July 23rd, 2009
5:26 pm
Who is the hawks big man coach? Please tell me it is not Tyrone Hill anymore, if he hasn’t helped any of our guys by now he isn’t going to. We need an upgrade for that assistant coach position. Or Ty was a defensive guy; get someone that knows offense and has post moves to balance it out.
Deep
July 23rd, 2009
5:28 pm
O’Brien- I think thats what Crawford brings to the table for us. Think if we could resign Flip…. You could have Crawford SF, Flip SG, Teague PG or Evans SF, Crawford SG, Flip PG and mean while Joe and Marvin get to rest so at the end of the year they don’t break down like last year.
kirkinga
July 23rd, 2009
5:30 pm
doc, agree with your comments about Siler 100%! Every remaining available big has some type of flaw or drawback, or else they wouldn’t still be on the market.
It certainly is somewhat disingenuous to argue that the Hawks adding Siler to the roster hurts the team. And if a signing doesn’t hurt the team and adds depth to a position of need, then overall, the balance goes to it being a move that helps.
Lastly, I think you’re point about his smarts and work ethic. I think it is amusing how so many have made an evaluation of Siler, yet their analysis failed to take into account his intelligence. I think even in the NBA, and amongst some of it’s fans, we see that only certain players are afforded the “so intelligent” and”a gritty player” labels. One would think in the NBA we would have gotten past suggest a thing.
Many of the same people (not all), who are quick to question Josh Smith’s “basketball intelligence”, have not even bothered to consider Siler’s basketball IQ.
Signing Smith (or someone similar) and signing Siler, and I think we have at least a measurable improvement along the frontline in talent,depth, experience, size, bulk, players fitting and accepting their roles, and, yes, we add some brains too.
I think it’s best to look at Siler as part of a “platoon” with another big. I know that’s baseball, but I think in the Hawks’ case, given the totality of their situation, this is an acceptable route to go. In any case, no Hawks fan should ever have an issue with adding some bulk and brains to the team.
Go Hawks!!
Deep
July 23rd, 2009
5:31 pm
Ken- I like your bench but you have one more spot to fill to make 13…. Who would that be?
kirkinga
July 23rd, 2009
5:31 pm
past such a thing ..I meant to say.
Ariose
July 23rd, 2009
5:33 pm
atlanta_Hawks “Update from Team USA camp: RT @johnschuhmann: Josh Smith just threw a TMZ-worthy dunk on Kevin Love.”
Ariose
July 23rd, 2009
5:37 pm
Juhnschuhman “Apparently, Josh Smith hadn’t finished that house he was building in the conf. semis. Shooting drills ain’t too pretty so far in Vegas.”
DAMMIT SMOOVE!!!!!
COME ON!!!
GET THAT SHYT TOGETHER!!!!!!! BEFORE TRAINING CAMP PREFERABLY!!!!!!
Clyde
July 23rd, 2009
5:40 pm
Theo Ratliff just signed with the Spurs. They must want to win a championship.
Clyde
July 23rd, 2009
5:43 pm
Ariose what’s up wit the laugh of the day? How bout this. Hawks executives want our team to make a title run this year.
Melvin
July 23rd, 2009
5:44 pm
kirkinga,
Co-sign your 5:30 post….
Ariose
July 23rd, 2009
5:47 pm
“Well, just been drills so far. He’s supposed to shooting. But he’s just not suited for the international game with that jumper of his.”
Clyde, If we bring back flip, Solo, sign Korolev, Siler and Joe Smith we defenetly will have just as much of a chance as anyone else.
Hopefully Woody’s caching has grown more than Smoove’s shooting ability over this summer lol!
Deep
July 23rd, 2009
5:47 pm
If Siler is as a smart as all the hype says he is, wait till some true NBA pros can teach him the game….. plus think of this………4th quarter… Shaq or Howard in the game… put ZaZa and a massive Siler in there and just beat the living $h!t out of them….. Siler is huge and he won’t be expected to play more than ten mins….. he’s got 6 hard fouls to give… let him go off on grandpa Shaq for 10 mins….. I know Orlando’s got some depth though but send him in on an a mission to home in on Howard……. Al comes back into the game rested and quick to face a worn down low post
niremetal
July 23rd, 2009
5:50 pm
I honestly think our number one need from mini-camp is a combo forward capable of playing minutes at both the 3 and especially the 4. Hunter and Korolev are the two that look the part…kinda like with Marvin and Josh, Korolev is taller but has more of a perimeter game. Right now, we don’t have any “true” backup forwards under contract…just the 6′5 Mo. I’m guessing we add a Joe Smith or Brian Skinner type through free agency, but in terms of the positions where we need bodies, I think we should be looking at PFs/combo forwards.
There aren’t many minutes available at center and certainly not in the backcourt. Based on what little I’ve seen/heard, I’d say that either Hunter or Korolev – if not both – need to get invites to training camp.
Deep
July 23rd, 2009
5:54 pm
Nire I agree… That was a huge problem with last year…. both Marvin and Joe got over worked. Crawford should help with Joe but Marvin???? I say Joe Smith, Hunter, and Korolev
niremetal
July 23rd, 2009
5:56 pm
Taggart was another one I had an eye on coming in (he performed well at Memphis despite getting very few touches), but I haven’t heard too much about him during the course of the camo…
Ariose
July 23rd, 2009
5:58 pm
Nire, He hit a few 3’s in the highlights and he banged a little. Had a few putbacks. But didn’t really standout. on’t know what his deal is. I think he just needs to be more assertive.
Ken
July 23rd, 2009
6:07 pm
No word on Joe Smith, huh? He is supposed to be doing that private interview today isn’t he, today going into tomorrow afternoon?
jhan
July 23rd, 2009
6:09 pm
I would like a different backup for Marvin as well. I’m not overly unhappy with Evans like some – just think he is decent player off the bench. I see his playing time being cut this year anyway unless the injury bug strikes again.
Deep
July 23rd, 2009
6:09 pm
If we’re going to make him an offer do you think it will happen by tomorrow?
Deep
July 23rd, 2009
6:10 pm
Joe Smith I mean
drmaryb
July 23rd, 2009
6:14 pm
Clyde, Clyde, Clyde:
1 question: why?
doc
July 23rd, 2009
6:28 pm
kirk, nice follow up on my thoughts on siler. have my back man. i agree his smarts and work ethic should take him over the top when looking at someone to fill the 14th spot. ant b i dont look for him to play but to challenge randmo who does have a contract and maybe elevate him a bit by the association. again randmo’s comments suggest a maturity on his part to see potential in someone competing for time with him. siler would rub off on randmo and vice versa in a positive way is my thought and we could end up with some worthy bigs for spot minutes. siler really impresses me with his size and i still love the sound that he isnt intimidated at all with the size of players in the nba.
DMB sighting without saying hello to the gang. hmmmph
cp
July 23rd, 2009
6:54 pm
Don’t let Joe leave without signing a contract. Tell him his plane has been delayed so he has to stick around longer. We need to get this deal done.
cdog
July 23rd, 2009
6:59 pm
DEEP, GET USE TO IT. YOU ARE DEALING WITH RICK “LOSER” SUND AND NOT DANNY AINGE OR JERRY WEST. THEY WOULD HAVE LONG HAVE SIGN THE NEEDED BIG MAN BUT NOT SUND. YOU GUYS ARE WASTING YOUR TIME FOOLING WITH SUND. LOOK FOR THE CAVS TO SIGN JOE SMITH AFTER SUND IS THROUGH PLAYING GAMES WITH HIM
outlaw30079
July 23rd, 2009
7:28 pm
Is it any way we can cut west it wont cost us that much yes he work hard but cant shot or anything else i say we replace him with size or someone who can atleast shot that person will work hard also
Hoops
July 23rd, 2009
7:50 pm
I see where the Lakers are considering Shelden Williams.
JSS
July 23rd, 2009
7:59 pm
Now that would be a good place for Shelden.. Phil has a long history of taking limited skill players and getting maximum levels out of them… Will Perdue, Bill Whittington, Luc Longley, Stacey King, on and on and on…
JSS
July 23rd, 2009
8:02 pm
Oh, but there was KWAME BROWN!!!
Melvin
July 23rd, 2009
8:02 pm
Candance must have pull some string in the LA organization….lol
Hoops
July 23rd, 2009
8:36 pm
Sekou,
We need some info on Joe Smith! Enlighten us!!!
Big Ray
July 23rd, 2009
9:39 pm
Daniel ,
“Don’t be fooled by smoke and mirrors.”
Uh, what are you referring to? We’re talking about minicamp. I am talking about guys we can sign to sit at the end of the bench. I don’t want to see us sign guys we couldn’t even find a use for. And I’m not suggesting that anybody we sign from minicamp (that makes it through training camp) will be an immediate help. Minicamp has nothing to do with playoffs. It has to do with adding depth and rounding out the roster.
My point was that it’s better to sign a guy you can actually make use of IF YOU END UP HAVING TO USE HIM. Our frontcourt is both thin and relatively small. We have one guy who comes off the bench for us in the frontcourt with any regularity. That would be Zaza. Solo is next, and he didn’t see much time at all for the second half of the season. If Zaza gets hurt, then what? We trot Solo’s narrow ass out there to play backup center and power forward for however many games? We need size down low. It makes a lot of sense to have a big guy who can give you a strong, wide body in the lane during practice, and if something happens to your real backup guy. Imagine how many games we might have lost if we didn’t have Zaza out there to step up and help down low….
At the same time, that’s also why I’ve been calling (pretty much like everybody else) for another veteran low post big, so we DON’T fall in that hole.
My analogy with Ramon Sessions had nothing to do with the expectation of help from an “end of the bench” player, and everything to do with adding depth where you need it and can actually find a use for it. The Bucks were thin and broken in the backcourt, not the frontcourt. Had they added another forward or center instead of Sessions, they would not have come close to holding the 8th seed for as long as they did, particularly with both Ridnour and Redd out. By the same vein, we are thin in the frontcourt.
It would be stupid to sign up yet another 6′8 or so forward who cannot provide what we need down low, and just roll with that. And while that might seem like an attack on Hunter, it’s not. I like him and would sign him. But I’d sign Siler, too. Like it or not, he gives you something in reserve IF YOU NEED IT, that none of the other minicamp candidates do.
And yes, Sessions played on a team that wasn’t that great. But please don’t use that logic, it has a way of turning on you.
Big Ray
July 23rd, 2009
9:45 pm
Niremetal,
I haven’t forgotten that you campaigned for the signing of Siler during and up to the draft. But I also haven’t forgotten that it was you who said it was smarter to sign a European player and stash him overseas, rather than pay him a guaranteed 3 year contract. Perhaps the 30 GMs that passed on guys like Siler are simply being as smart as you say they would be by doing what they do every year: inviting these guys to camp, seeing them up close, then signing them to more amenable contracts than the 3 year guaranteed rookie contracts….eh?
I won’t cry if we don’t sign Siler either. And as pretty as a guy’s shot like Korolev’s might be, where does he see time? Can he really beat out Mo Evans for time behind Marvin Williams? ‘Cause he SURE ain’t gonna see time in the backcourt. I can tell you that right NOW, unless there are several severe injuries to our backcourt regulars. A combo forward is a nice idea, but I don’t know where we’d get one that will actually get minutes. Are you thinking that Othello Hunter fits that bill? I don’t know. If Smoove can’t survive at the 3, Hunter ain’t got a chance….
Kirk ,
A lot of good stuff in your 5:30 post. I agree, and I recognize some of the hypocritical viewpoints that you describe, some of which I am guilty of.
Big Ray
July 23rd, 2009
10:03 pm
Micah Hart makes me laugh a little bit sometimes. He said that Teague, Hunter and Morris looked like the best guys in minicamp.
Well, um yeah, I would expect so. Morris has been in the league for a couple of years now. He OUGHT to look better than anybody in the gym during minicamp. Teague is a real player, and a first round draft pick. If he had waited another year, he’d have probably been a top 10 or 12 pick, definitely a lottery guy.
Hunter is the only one I don’t smirk about. I like that kid. He has heart and a good work ethic. I’d like to see him on our roster. I don’t know about him being a combo forward, though. I mean seriously, if you think Josh Smith can’t survive at the 3, what has Hunter done to make you think he can do any better?
As for Korolev, the guy can flat out shoot. No doubt about it. He can score. But I’d hate to add a guy who won’t see the floor. I see him as a 3. Not a 2, not a 4. Perhaps he can play behind Marvin and Mo, but Marvin gets plenty of minutes, and Mo gets the scraps. So what do you have? A replacement for Gardner, with more height. Whatever, man…whatever…
What I do find amusing is that we don’t seem to realize that EVERYBODY in minicamp was “not drafted for a reason.” Otherwise they wouldn’t be in minicamp. Right? So the fact that this “hey, he wasn’t drafted for a reason” can apply to some players, yet doesn’t get mentioned at all with others, amuses me to no end.
O'Brien
July 23rd, 2009
10:10 pm
Theo signed for the minimum of $1.3 mil. Why couldnt the Hawks have signed him? Adding a guy like Theo along with Joe Smith would provide some much needed depth.
Speaking of which, if Joe Smith does not sign with the Hawks, I wonder which big man will they go after? (If we dont get Joe, my pick would be Drew Gooden).
Ray,
My suggestion was to use JJ (6′7″ 240 lbs) to backup Marvin when we play bigger SF’s (Crawford will play SG, so that should ease the pressure/minutes on JJ). And then Mo can get scrap minutes, especially against smaller/less skilled SF’s.
Ken
July 23rd, 2009
10:10 pm
About Yaroslav Korolev, how tall is this guy? And for all the shots he makes, has anyone seen him play defense? Cause if he can’t than there is no point in having him on the team under Woodson.
Agree we should keep Siler on, he can learn more about the game from Joe Smith (if we get him) and Al Horford. Plus, he could give Horford someone to bang against in practice (simulating Shaq or Howard).
As of now, I think Crawford is being penciled in as the 3rd point guard. We forget he can play 3 positions. That would give flexibility to put a big lineup on the floor with Crawford,JJ,Marv,Al,Zaza. Just think of the possibilities!
Melvin
July 23rd, 2009
10:16 pm
Big Ray,
I can see Tim Thomas as combo forward that can fill a need for this team. Playing mainly behind Marvin and some PF when needed. However, I would still like to see Joe Smith and Siler added to the roster to fill a position of need (backup PF) and added depth (Siler)…