Where’s the beef?
Is Garret Siler (left) a potential solution to the Hawks' big man issue? The answer could come this week during a mini-camp at Philips Arena.
HAWKSVILLE - One by one, the big names have come off the board.
And each time they’ve chosen some place other than the friendly confines of Hawksville to pursue their big man endeavors.
From Rasheed Wallace (Boston) and Marcin Gortat (back to Orlando) to Brandon Bass (also to Southeast Division rival Orlando), Antonio McDyess (San Antonio), Chris Wilcox (Detroit) and just about anyone else you can think of, most all of this summer’s coveted free agent big men have found homes outside of the metro area.
The Hawks have flirted with all of them and more, but outside of the return of Zaza Pachulia, the importance of which should not be ignored, the Hawks have been unable to secure a commitment from another big man, thus far.
With the start of mini-camp today and with guys like Earl Barron, Chris Taft and rookie Garret Siler all set to attend, the Hawks have a chance to evaluate three guys that could possibly help solve their issues in the frontcourt. But none of the three offers the sort of psychological security you get with the aforementioned bigs that have gone elsewhere.
I know you 80s babies remember this commercial.
We’re not the only ones that have noticed. People everywhere have taken up the cause of asking, “Where’s the beef?” on the Hawks’ roster.
During what I called “Tech-Free” weekend (no blog, no twitter, no computer or blackberry or anything at all for one weekend this year, all done in an effort to keep from getting tossed out of my house by the boss lady) I assumed I could get away from it. But I was wrong.
So I’m sitting down with my cousin Big Chet (in town from D.C. visiting) and his buddy Ted, a local limo driver that’s lived here in Atlanta much longer than I have, and eventually the conversation turns to sports. Now keep in mind, Ted has no idea that I have anything to do with the Hawks. And he just blurt it out.
“Man, the Hawks got to get a big man if they ever want to do anything,” he said. “I’m telling you, they need a big man. You can’t keep [Al] Horford out there every night trying to deal with Dwight Howard and Shaq and all them big dudes. They got to get a big man.”
Chet tries to turn the conversation elsewhere. “You can’t say that about the Hawks, Ted,” Chet told him, hoping to turn the eye on his beloved Wizards, whose problems he went on to run down for us without missing a beat. “This man covers the Hawks. He doesn’t need you telling him what’s wrong with the Hawks.”
But Ted wasn’t hearing it. Like most of us, he had his own ideas about what the Hawks needed to do. “They need a big man and that way they can move Horford to power forward, move Josh Smith to small forward and bring [Marvin] Williams off the bench,” Ted said as he continued his rant. “They could even start Pachulia. He plays within himself when he’s starting and he’s the big body that we’ve got to have out there. Everybody I know can see it. Why can’t the Hawks see that we’ve got to go that route?”
When Ted finished, they both looked at me and asked if he was wrong, and Ted gave me that look I get from most folks around town when they speak their truth about the Hawks. I told them I agreed that another big man was needed, and that indeed, everyone that pays close attention to these Hawks knows that another big man is needed (I even suggested they check out the daily jabs back and forth around here if they needed confirmation). I don’t know that I care how you concoct things in terms of who starts and comes off the bench, it’s just clear that more beef is needed in the Hawks’ rotation.
His name is Earl! And he's in the Hawks' big man mix at mini-camp this week and possibly beyond.
Where that beef comes from remains the only mystery of this summer. There was a time, earlier this summer, when I thought the Hawks might be close to pulling off a trade for a big man like Marcus Camby, who might not have the beef but certainly has the big man game the Hawks currently lack. But that was before the Los Angeles Clippers moved Zach Randolph to Memphis and cleared room for rookie sensation Blake Griffin to go to work this year. In the weeks since then, the focus has shifted from big name free agents to fringe bigs (Channing Frye opted for Phoenix, and he was my sleeper pick for the Hawks) and now to mini-camp and training camp invitees like Barron, Taft and Siler.
That doesn’t mean the Hawks have given up on the idea that Randolph Morris (who is under contract and according to most folks I’ve spoken to, is working harder than he ever has to fight his way out of Mike Woodson’s outhouse and back into contention for playing time) could be a factor. And Solomon Jones is a restricted free agent the Hawks have have for three years. He could also become an option. Still, there’s a need for more. A new body or two, preferably bigger bodies than those two guys, could add the physical edge the Hawks have been missing the past two years. I date it back to the time the Hawks traded for Mike Bibby and had to send both Shelden Williams and Lorenzen Wright to Sacramento in that deal. It wasn’t that Williams and Wright were necessarily the ultimate solutions to the Hawks’ problems, but they certainly provided a frontcourt depth that has been non-existent since they were jettisoned.
Think about it, the frontcourt burden since that trade was shifted to basically three guys – Smith, Horford and Pachulia, in a reserve role. That’s quite a bit to ask of three guys, two of them slightly undersized for the task they’re being asked to perform most nights.
So in the end, it might turn out that Ted was spot on in his evaluation of the Hawks. He and the little old lady from those Wendy’s commercials that use to make me laugh when I was a kid every time she said “Where’s the beef?” had it right.
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315 comments Add your comment
seahawk
July 21st, 2009
9:37 am
Randolph Morris could be the solution if he played with an attitude. The old Piston’s teams were the perfect NBA model, with extremely bad boys playing low -mahorn, laimbeer, rodman – and the primary scorers at 1, 2 and 3. We have the scorers, but lack the meat.
truth-serum
July 21st, 2009
9:38 am
The Hawks are not much better than the were last year…Still no center.5 ‘10″ Tony Parker will exploit the weakness in the center and score 45-55 points. Most decent team will kill the Hawks inside and by the end of the second round well watch the teams with a center compete for a championship while the Bubba crew will say fire Woodson for not getting a coach to make Horford and ZAZA the three inch vertical leap, in to olajuawn and Duncan…give me a break!
truth-serum
July 21st, 2009
9:40 am
Sekou stinks! He really does! ZaZa is a turnover waiting to happen and Horford is a power forward with no offensive skills. Sekou was a major promoter of getting a guard instead of going after a center. The guard we got may not do any more than what flip brought to the table. We should have pursued a trade for Lopez. Any low budget project center won’t help the Hawks any time in the near future and the Hawks competitive team has a 4-5year window to make a run at a title. Uncle Tom Sekou is a little late and a few dollars short in making a difference in the 5 spot which is clearly the Hawks weakest position and teams will exploit it. Three weeks ago Uncle Tom Sekou was saying what a great center the power forward Horford was. Get real. Even ignorant Ken is beginning to realize Horford aint no center. Its a little late to try and address the center spot now… Sekou you are all over the map with no consistency. Get back in your cabin before the bubba crew turns on you. Right Ken, Bradley?
As the polls says. You’ve taken the Hawks backward with your pursuit of a guard instead of a center. No finals here.
rainman
July 21st, 2009
10:01 am
Hey Sekou, why is it that you can’t name the 2 bigs — is it confidential information? Are they FA’s or are you speculating on a trade? Can you at least give us a hint?
Also, what is the reason for dragging out the contract negotiations with Marvin? I thought I had heard that the sides weren’t that far apart — 37.5-40 mil./5 yr.. I would much rather lock him up long term than for him to play on the one year tender. Does his agent hope another team will offer a bigger contract that the Hawks would have to match or let him go? Assuming his back is OK, I really think Marvin is on the verge of becoming one of the better SF’s in the league.
Sautee
July 21st, 2009
10:09 am
Ding! or should I say dingjavu?
Wasn’t this same nonsense posted yesterday?
Some one trying VERY hard to be noticed…..shhhh.
Sekou Smith
July 21st, 2009
10:25 am
A new blog is coming this afternoon, after the morning session of practice (and before tonight’s scrimmage work).
macaroni tony
July 21st, 2009
10:28 am
That sounds great Sekou
Daniel
July 21st, 2009
10:32 am
truth-serum-
So, if someone disagrees with your assessment of the position Al Horford should play, which would include the majority of GMs and coaches in the league, that person is an “uncle tom”?
Dude, are you high?
Calm down… This is just the Basketball, and guess what no matter what anyone posts on here, including Sekou, it has NO affect on how the Hawks manage their team.
Do you really think Sekou influences the team’s decisions?
Daniel
July 21st, 2009
10:36 am
Ariose and Tribe- you guys seem to have gotten a little wound up last night. Whoa, things are not that bad. We have made a trade resigned our two UNRESTRICTED Free Agents. And, we are working at more free agents signings. There is no reason to rush the Marvin contract at this point. Yes, I wish we could have gotten Bass, but the Magic WAY overpaid for Gortat, and VC is not an upgrade over Turkalo. Yes, Boston adding Sheed is nice, but he wasn’t going to come to Atlanta anyway. And you are really upset that we didn’t go hard after Anthony Parker? Guys, it must have been a late night.
Jay
July 21st, 2009
10:51 am
In the 2008-2009 season, the Hawks primarily played with an eight-man rotation, often had one of those eight unable to play because of injury, and won 47 games. Immediately after the team’s most successful season in many years, Coach Woodson publicly stated that he would like to see everyone return and see what they can do in the 2009-2010 season.
Having re-signed Mike Bibby and Zaza Pachulia while making qualifying offers to Marvin Williams, Solomon Jones and Mario West suggests that GM Sund is willing to accomodate Woodson’s request. While Flip Murray may or may not return, obtaining Jamal Crawford (for two guys that were not part of the rotation) is the type of understated move that can pay major dividends. If you, as GM, have to decide whether Woodson should be re-signed to a long-term deal, isn’t it best to make that decision after giving him the team he wants?
As I see it, the major area in which this team can improve is in their won-lost record on the road. Championship contending teams win at least half of their road games. In the East, Cleveland, Boston and Orlando won 27 games on the road while the Hawks only won 16. Knowing you can win on the road allows a team to develop the attitude necessary to advance in the playoffs. Winning on the road requires maturity, poise and confidence in one another, qualities that are best developed by continuity.
Yes, Boston, Cleveland and Orlando have made moves but have they really improved? Does adding the tempermental Rasheed Wallace make the Celtics better, especially at crunch time since neither guy wants to play inside? Doesn’t adding Shaquille O’Neal and his inside power game to battle Dwight Howard become a liability when the lane is so clogged that LeBron can’t drive to the hoop or when playing teams with athletic centers who can play on the perimeter? Don’t the wholesale changes to Orlando’s roster make the development of team chemistry a season-long process; one further complicated by the perception that the head coach is prone to “panicky moves”?
Yes, Washington (return of Arenas and Haywood), Philadelphia (return of Brand), Detroit (gaining Villenueva and Gordon but losing Iverson and McDyess), and Chicago (losing Gordon but gaining Deng from injury and having Miller and Salmons for the entire season), are better than last year but Miami is the only true threat to the Hawks status as the number four team in the conference; because of the improvement their young players (Beasley and Chalmers) will make and continuity. Even if the Hawks make no other moves to upgrade the roster (and Lord knows I hope they add a couple of free agent bigs–boy, wouldn’t Malik Rose and Rasho Nesterovic look good in a Hawk uni), there’s no question that better days lie ahead for this team.
So while the Hawks may not be considered as legitimate contenders for the 2009-2010 NBA title by the majority of sportswriters, pundits, fans or bloggers, the day when that will be the case is not far off; a concept unfathomable just three years ago.
Melvin
July 21st, 2009
11:01 am
RandMo looks quicker. My Gosh, Siler is big. I may have to re-evaluate my FA list.
http://www.nba.com/hawks/video/2009/07/21/RookieCamp.nba/index.html
JSS
July 21st, 2009
11:21 am
Melvin,thanks… So much for him being a goofy doofus! That was a nice follow shot…
Melvin
July 21st, 2009
11:35 am
Look like the Magic is going to add Barnes and CJ Watson to their team. How much bail out money did they get from Stern? Let’s see, they didn’t have money for Hedo but they traded for Vince, resign Gortat, sign Bass, Barnes and Watson. Now that’s a franchise that’s making bold moves. They are not relying on organic growth, instead they prefer to invest major money into their product. And for those who say Boston and Cleveland are aging teams, what about Orlando? They have a good mix of vets and young players. That team will be competitive for the next few years. As for the Hawks, how come they can justify not signing players base on projected playing time when teams that finished with a better record and advance further in the playoffs can find use for some of those same players. I know, be patient. Growth from within is a slow process…huh
Melvin
July 21st, 2009
11:37 am
JSS,
He better not leave mini-camp without a signed contract….
ILL-logical
July 21st, 2009
11:45 am
The fact that the fan base is reduced to fawning over talents such as the aforementioned bigs points out a disturbing fact: the lack of player development on the part of the staff has now come to light in a way that illuminates why big name bigs are reluctant to play here.
Woodson’s “system” does not invite strong front court participation in the offense; so why would a veteran frontcourt player who has scored in double fiqures in the past want to be relegated to third class status?Addtionally, with the current stance regarding Calypso Al as the starting center , where does a skilled front court player get time and worse, were does a 4th year player like Solo, who has lanquised on the bench for 3 years here, get time to prove his NBA worthiness before he is cast on the scrape heap of marginal players who had a run but never caught on?
Player development- a key to success in building a championship franchise. See Lakers, Los Angeles in re Andrew Bynum.
O'Brien
July 21st, 2009
11:46 am
In my opinion, none of the (established) big men have signed with the Hawks, for 2 main reasons.
1) Al,Josh and ZaZa averaged 89 minutes per game last year. With 98 minutes available, unless someone gets hurt, whichever big man we get figures that Woody will only play him 10-12 minutes per game.
2) Because Sund knows that whichever big we get will only get 10-12 minutes per game (unless there is injury), Sund has offered them a contract accordingly.
I just wonder if Sund would offer Chris Wilcox $3 mil when Woody might only play him 10 minutes per game? Would Sund offer Bass $4.5 mil when there is a possibility Woody will only play him 10-12 minutes per game?
Sund has drafted Teague and replace Flip with Crawford (and resigned our guys). But despite possible Chemistry problems early on, I dont think the Hawks can catch the Cavs, Boston and Magic this year.
JSS
July 21st, 2009
11:54 am
I just waited and listened to all of the naysayers and other stuff… I just wanted for the kid to get a fair chance… I never record hoop games; but I still go back and watch his performance in the 2008 D-II Elite Eight championship game… My joy just dropped, he should have scored 50 that afternoon; but of course in the college game teammates try to get theirs… It is up to him to keep up the effort,and he has it, that has developed a big nasty streak that does not come across in his interviews… He can be fierce… Enough, I just hope he sticks, history will take care of the rest… Shoot, we got John Drew fro Gardner-Webb for goodness sake… I just can’t understand the small school bashing…
JSS
July 21st, 2009
11:56 am
My jaw that is SORRY
Samuel
July 21st, 2009
12:03 pm
ILL,
Player development my as_. The Lakers “acquired” Gasol, Ariza, and Odom. Those are the players who put them over the top. Championships are bought these days. Why spend all that energy developing and still stand a chance to lose them through FA.
I just watched some more summer league footage.
Johnny Flynn is “the truth”. The TWolves need to get what they can for Rubio cause he won’t beat out Flynn at the point.
Siller looked pretty good. I can’t see how he would “not” make this team.
My boy Jasper Johnson from Delta State(I blogged about him last year) of the D-League select still has the smooth stroke. Hopefully he can stick with somebody this year.
Me and the wife are headed out to Vegas before I go back to school. Maybe I can catch some team USA action. Cuz, you going out that way.
Hoops
July 21st, 2009
12:07 pm
Daniel,
Since the Wizzards are in need of Bigs like we are, Let’s trade any combination of the following for Blatche:
Solo, Morris, Siler, Evans
They could get a two for one deal. Maybe even a three for one? Ha!
Deep
July 21st, 2009
12:08 pm
Thanks for the post Melvin.. So I’m convinced we resign Flip, sign just one single big F/A, and bring in Siler and Randmo to ride the pine and we might finish only 15 games back of Orlando. I hope that Teague can become the deep threat of the bench the Hawks need. Look at what Orlando did from the three point line last year in the playoffs. The Hawks just don’t have that pat of their game either.
p.s.- What the hell happened down in central Florida the last two years. Just a couple of years back the Magic were a joke. Now they’ve become a Red Sox/Yankees of B-Ball. Sund and the ASG should take note.
JSS
July 21st, 2009
12:17 pm
Samuel… Where are you staying? They’re having a scrimmage at Thomas and Mack on the 25th Here’s a tix link http://www.UNLVtickets.com or 702-739-FANS … If you have a dime to drop, go to the Bellagio and have dinner at Prime. You will never have a better steak… If you’re on a budget, the new Vegas Strip dining options are really cheap and have a good variety of tasty food… Tough times in Vegas, you can get some real deals around town if you’re smart.. Have a great time….
doc
July 21st, 2009
12:24 pm
truth thanks for the clarification, i know about the flattery stuff as well ss most regular bloggers here do.
najeh, you have never been close, as ray said it is an alert.
Samuel
July 21st, 2009
12:30 pm
Preshate that JSS,
We’ll be on the strip for the most part. It’s been a while since I’ve been there. I used to live in Barstow.
JSS
July 21st, 2009
12:56 pm
Dude, that high plateau!!! Big chanes in the past six years, it’s brand new town (Vegas)… Don’t let all of those unfinished construction projects scare you… The recession shut all of them down… When did you live on the plateau? Can you keep us informed if you make that game… Safe travels…
darrell starks
July 21st, 2009
12:57 pm
2009 ATLANTA HAWKS
STARTER BIBBY, JOE, MARVIN, JOSH, HORFORD,
BENCH FLIP, CRAWFORD, MOE, SOLO, ZAZA,
RESERVE TEAGUE, MORRIS.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ariose
July 21st, 2009
12:59 pm
Wow, I’m suprised nobody picked up on my Mad Stan refrence from Batman. Personally I think he’s the funniest Batman Villan of all time, but that’s just me…..anyhoo….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MduM0SCXlqM
One of the newer Batman (Early 2000’s) I beleive.
Ariose
July 21st, 2009
1:03 pm
Siler has a couple post moves does’t he lol. And Randmo Actullly learned how to use his feet.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 21st, 2009
1:09 pm
“p.s.- What the hell happened down in central Florida the last two years. Just a couple of years back the Magic were a joke. Now they’ve become a Red Sox/Yankees of B-Ball. Sund and the ASG should take note.”
Dwight Howard happened. I’m sure if Sund and the Hawks got the league’s next great center dropped in their laps they would be able to look like the Sox and the Yanks too. Sometimes you build contenders by signing and trading for veterans, like the Celtics and the Lakers. Sometimes you build them by drafting talented players and letting them grow together, like the Hawks have been doing. But it definitely doesn’t hurt to be handed the number one pick and have a true franchise player fall into your hands, like the Magic and Spurs had happen.
darrell starks
July 21st, 2009
1:20 pm
We need flip back bad why havent the hawks sign him the same old hawks and please dont say because of jamal that makes no sense him and flip coming of the bench could be a devastating 1, 2, punch.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
jhan
July 21st, 2009
1:26 pm
Astro Joe may have a heart attack if we sign Flip. Too many guards – not enough bigs!
BrittishAnger
July 21st, 2009
1:38 pm
From that video at Hawks.com, Siler looks like he could knock down Rando, Horfey, and Smith like Bowling Pins if he ever chose to, and I’m glad to see Rando in the mix at mini-camp; he’s talking hungry, no doubt about it, and if his improvements transition to real games and we can pick up Siler on the cheap cheap, we may be the Dark Horse team of the season to put all these slumbering giants to sleep. With Siler, if we were to end up facing Miami again we’d get out in five games rather than seven…that kid is just the kind of big man banger we need to play along with Zaza when the dirt hits the fans….not you guys of course, the mechanical ones….
Melvin
July 21st, 2009
1:42 pm
Sean May is heading to Sacto according to his twitter page….lol… Is it time to make a new Wendy’s commerical featuring Sund and BASG yet???
Melvin
July 21st, 2009
2:01 pm
From Sekou twitter page:
Hawks expecting a veteran (big man) visitor tomorrow that will upstage the mini-camp gathering. Details to come shortly.
macaroni tony
July 21st, 2009
2:04 pm
Melvin
That’s the kind update that we need…
Hoops
July 21st, 2009
2:06 pm
Melvin,
TALK TO ME!!!
Melvin
July 21st, 2009
2:08 pm
Mini-camp roster:
http://www.nba.com/hawks/news/Hawks_Announce_2009_MiniCamp_071609.html
chuckw/deadjournalist
July 21st, 2009
2:12 pm
melvin – i saw the tweet too. from the impression i got, its a name bigger than collins, magloire, etc. could it be a shock the world name like lee, odom or mutombo?
had to throw deke’s name out just to see if anyone was paying attention.
Kukaw
July 21st, 2009
2:12 pm
It’s simple….The Spirit are not willing to spend money. Period. And you can’t win if you don’t spend. Not only do we need a big, we need a point guard. Bibby isn’t it anymore. He can’t get to the hole and he can’t stop anyone. Did we even talk to Jarrett Jack? And we can’t pull Chris Wilcox even? Expect another 40-45 win season and a first or second round exit. And honestly, I think the Spirit are fine with that. Making the playoffs was an accomplishment 2 years ago. It’s nothing now. It’s Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando (not in that order) and then a far drop to the next tier. I’m getting tired of supporting an organization that seems to care less than we as fans do.
Melvin
July 21st, 2009
2:12 pm
Hoops,
Thats all Sekou has said at the moment. I’m sure ARIOSE will update us as soon as Sekou says something…. He may break the news in a new blog…
chuckw/deadjournalist
July 21st, 2009
2:12 pm
here’s hoping the name is: powe
Chea
July 21st, 2009
2:13 pm
Unbelievable, Sacto actually chose Sean “May play, May not play” ahead of Diogu. Groupthink at its finest keeping him down.
Chea
July 21st, 2009
2:15 pm
Powe is injured too. Why is it that everybody wants injured PFs?
darrell starks
July 21st, 2009
2:16 pm
With flip and crawford coming of the bench there will be no excuse for woody this year on why he play joe 48min a game this year, but if we dont resign flip im afraid that teague will be woody escape goat on why joe play so many min. this year he will continue to use the same old excuse he’s to young.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
chuckw/deadjournalist
July 21st, 2009
2:20 pm
chea – sure, powe is injured, but he’ll be back for a chunk of the season. given his injury he’d probably be open to a two year contract that is back-loaded or a team/mutial option. as long has he could play the last 25 games on the season and the playoffs, he’d be a huge get. even with the changes in the east, the hawks are still a playoff team. get in and anything could happen – and powe can bring the bang down low.
it’s good economy – buy low and sell high
Hoops
July 21st, 2009
2:36 pm
I’m guessing the Hawks are bringing in Gooden or Diogu. I hope anyway!
JSS
July 21st, 2009
2:37 pm
B.A.!!! Where you been Man? I’m going to Berlin next month for the World Track Championships… Hopefully the Hawks will have solidified some moves by then…
Hoops
July 21st, 2009
2:38 pm
New Blog Up!!!
BBgenie
July 21st, 2009
2:45 pm
Let’s tell the truth about our Hawks! Coaching staff: Woodson must win 50 gms, finish in Top (4) in East, And get to the 3rd round or Eastern conference finals. Frontline: Team must address (5) spot/center position, if we can obtain a true 7′0 ft player aka. Earl Barron,DJ Menbga or Fransico Elson we will be able to slide everyone over a position, Hortford(4), Smooth (3), JJ (2) & Bib/Craw/Teague (1). This team will be at its strongest with Al at(4) spot. 2nd Unit: Marvin/Zaza/Craw/Flip/Jones, which ever NBA team has the Most productive 2nd unit, will advance in Playoffs. We must have alittle thug/Hood/ghetto on team. AKA (Flip). Hawks are Healthest team in the East! No major injuries. Being that we have very little $$$$$$,we must be Bullish on new additions to roster. Backcourt: With additions of J. Crawford and J. Teague it gives us extra Fire Power in the 4th Qt. Just think if we could re-sign Flip Murry also????? Rebounds=Rings Hawks in 7!
dap01
July 21st, 2009
2:51 pm
Where is the new blog?