Where’s the beef?
Is Garret Siler (left) a potential solution to the Hawks' big man issue? The answer could come this week during a mini-camp at Philips Arena.
HAWKSVILLE - One by one, the big names have come off the board.
And each time they’ve chosen some place other than the friendly confines of Hawksville to pursue their big man endeavors.
From Rasheed Wallace (Boston) and Marcin Gortat (back to Orlando) to Brandon Bass (also to Southeast Division rival Orlando), Antonio McDyess (San Antonio), Chris Wilcox (Detroit) and just about anyone else you can think of, most all of this summer’s coveted free agent big men have found homes outside of the metro area.
The Hawks have flirted with all of them and more, but outside of the return of Zaza Pachulia, the importance of which should not be ignored, the Hawks have been unable to secure a commitment from another big man, thus far.
With the start of mini-camp today and with guys like Earl Barron, Chris Taft and rookie Garret Siler all set to attend, the Hawks have a chance to evaluate three guys that could possibly help solve their issues in the frontcourt. But none of the three offers the sort of psychological security you get with the aforementioned bigs that have gone elsewhere.
I know you 80s babies remember this commercial.
We’re not the only ones that have noticed. People everywhere have taken up the cause of asking, “Where’s the beef?” on the Hawks’ roster.
During what I called “Tech-Free” weekend (no blog, no twitter, no computer or blackberry or anything at all for one weekend this year, all done in an effort to keep from getting tossed out of my house by the boss lady) I assumed I could get away from it. But I was wrong.
So I’m sitting down with my cousin Big Chet (in town from D.C. visiting) and his buddy Ted, a local limo driver that’s lived here in Atlanta much longer than I have, and eventually the conversation turns to sports. Now keep in mind, Ted has no idea that I have anything to do with the Hawks. And he just blurt it out.
“Man, the Hawks got to get a big man if they ever want to do anything,” he said. “I’m telling you, they need a big man. You can’t keep [Al] Horford out there every night trying to deal with Dwight Howard and Shaq and all them big dudes. They got to get a big man.”
Chet tries to turn the conversation elsewhere. “You can’t say that about the Hawks, Ted,” Chet told him, hoping to turn the eye on his beloved Wizards, whose problems he went on to run down for us without missing a beat. “This man covers the Hawks. He doesn’t need you telling him what’s wrong with the Hawks.”
But Ted wasn’t hearing it. Like most of us, he had his own ideas about what the Hawks needed to do. “They need a big man and that way they can move Horford to power forward, move Josh Smith to small forward and bring [Marvin] Williams off the bench,” Ted said as he continued his rant. “They could even start Pachulia. He plays within himself when he’s starting and he’s the big body that we’ve got to have out there. Everybody I know can see it. Why can’t the Hawks see that we’ve got to go that route?”
When Ted finished, they both looked at me and asked if he was wrong, and Ted gave me that look I get from most folks around town when they speak their truth about the Hawks. I told them I agreed that another big man was needed, and that indeed, everyone that pays close attention to these Hawks knows that another big man is needed (I even suggested they check out the daily jabs back and forth around here if they needed confirmation). I don’t know that I care how you concoct things in terms of who starts and comes off the bench, it’s just clear that more beef is needed in the Hawks’ rotation.
His name is Earl! And he's in the Hawks' big man mix at mini-camp this week and possibly beyond.
Where that beef comes from remains the only mystery of this summer. There was a time, earlier this summer, when I thought the Hawks might be close to pulling off a trade for a big man like Marcus Camby, who might not have the beef but certainly has the big man game the Hawks currently lack. But that was before the Los Angeles Clippers moved Zach Randolph to Memphis and cleared room for rookie sensation Blake Griffin to go to work this year. In the weeks since then, the focus has shifted from big name free agents to fringe bigs (Channing Frye opted for Phoenix, and he was my sleeper pick for the Hawks) and now to mini-camp and training camp invitees like Barron, Taft and Siler.
That doesn’t mean the Hawks have given up on the idea that Randolph Morris (who is under contract and according to most folks I’ve spoken to, is working harder than he ever has to fight his way out of Mike Woodson’s outhouse and back into contention for playing time) could be a factor. And Solomon Jones is a restricted free agent the Hawks have have for three years. He could also become an option. Still, there’s a need for more. A new body or two, preferably bigger bodies than those two guys, could add the physical edge the Hawks have been missing the past two years. I date it back to the time the Hawks traded for Mike Bibby and had to send both Shelden Williams and Lorenzen Wright to Sacramento in that deal. It wasn’t that Williams and Wright were necessarily the ultimate solutions to the Hawks’ problems, but they certainly provided a frontcourt depth that has been non-existent since they were jettisoned.
Think about it, the frontcourt burden since that trade was shifted to basically three guys – Smith, Horford and Pachulia, in a reserve role. That’s quite a bit to ask of three guys, two of them slightly undersized for the task they’re being asked to perform most nights.
So in the end, it might turn out that Ted was spot on in his evaluation of the Hawks. He and the little old lady from those Wendy’s commercials that use to make me laugh when I was a kid every time she said “Where’s the beef?” had it right.
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315 comments Add your comment
Yupperz
July 20th, 2009
3:08 pm
Tony Batie is a free agent, we should sign him.
I MUS.WRITE
July 20th, 2009
3:21 pm
I know its summer league but siler looks like he could be that goon I spoke of -with a little seasoning and coaching. he looks strong around the rim and finishes with power-if nothing else he’s a space eater-
What is this comedy central…… 1st melvin now Sekou lol.. Blast from he past -Where’s the beef – That old lady used to crack me up……
If I went to that church -I would go every weekend just to see dude act a munkey-funny stuff right there….Bo Franklin LOL
Dam it man -I just got my NBA Tv back like 5 minuts ago-here i am thinking its like 40 extra dollars a month- itz 5 freakn dollars -extra and on top of that u get the NFL channel and like 6 more sports channels. Thats what i get for being cheap – now thats a cool 100.00 instead of 95…..DAM
Ken
July 20th, 2009
3:24 pm
What is the difference between Kendrick Perkins and guys like Garret Siler, Earl Barron, and Randmo?
Time in the league, a true veteran to learn from and push you (Kevin Garnett), and enough all-stars to make you look good…lol
Not surprised to hear Chris Taft is out already in training camp. I was wondering if he had matured enough to take a chance on him, guess not.
chaz
July 20th, 2009
3:25 pm
marvin and mo make 10M. in this market they could be replaced by two guys like flip, barnes, green, etc. for roughly half that. sund should trade some combination of marvin, mo, and picks to get a quality shot-blocking C like camby. then take the 3-5M we would have spent on a wilcox or a mcdyess and use it to replace marvin and mo with flip and barnes.
would you rather spend 13-15M to have mcdyess, marvin, and mo, or spend 13-15M to have camby, flip, and barnes?
paying 3-5M for a wilcox or a mcdyess isn’t likely to get us past the 2nd round. we need a quality shot-blocking C and marvin can be replaced. hopefully sund is trying to bring in a quality C and that is why marvin’s contract is still up in the air.
bibby – crawford – jj – josh – camby
teague – flip – barnes – al – zaza
west – randmo – solo/siler
same payroll as last year
niremetal
July 20th, 2009
3:29 pm
Ding
Melvin
July 20th, 2009
3:39 pm
Nire,
Glad to see that bell is working again…
Hoops
July 20th, 2009
3:44 pm
The following is a list of FA or UFA that I hope the Hawks are looking at:
UFA – Iko Diogu – 25 Yrs/6′9″/250lbs. Avg. 9PPG & 4RPG
UFA – Drew Gooden – 27 Yrs/6′10″/242lbs. Avg. 10PPG & 4RPG
RFA – Hakim Warrick – 27 Yrs/6′9″/219lbs. Avg. 11PPG & 5RPG
UFA – Glen Davis – 23 Yrs/6′9″/289lbs. Avg. 7PPG & 4 RPG
UFA – Matt Barnes – 29 Yrs/6′7″/226lbs. Avg. 10 PPG & 5 RPG
I hope that the Hawks look into trading for Andray Blatche from the Wizzards. He is 22 Yrs/6′11″/260lbs. and had a Avg.10PPG & 5RPG this past season.
niremetal
July 20th, 2009
3:45 pm
Melvin,
Yeah, it just needed new batteries. It went off so much during the first few weeks of the offseason that it ran out.
By the way, I don’t understand a word of it, but Italian rap is officially the Best Thing Ever:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSSKhEkqNdE
I MUS.WRITE
July 20th, 2009
3:50 pm
Amare Stoudamire is not coming here- jeezuz _Im gonna fall on my sword if i hear that again……. Sheldon williams -Yall are getting desperate …Id rather have Solo..ewwww
Morris is working hard huh? he shoulda been doing that all along -its called being a professional-
I would agree with? -if we only add Siller ,Barron, etc the offseason becomes so average and non impressive -We retained our guys and drop some dead weight but nothing major -managing on the cheap
If nobody else of importance is brought in its the 4th seed maybe and a 1st or 2nd round exit…are we supposed to be satisfied with that- ASG: hell yeah u ungrateful Atlanta sports fans…….
Melvin
July 20th, 2009
3:55 pm
Nire,
Just bounce your head to the beat….
The Truth
July 20th, 2009
3:56 pm
Big Ray
Your July 20th, 2009
1:31 pm Post
Beautifully constructed; the answer to the question you posed is that Woody would be more to blame. But that really won’t be any new revelation based on past sentiments about him in Hawksville. I also know if that unfortunate scenario played out that way, weasel Woody would not go down without a fight. We all know he is a master at playing to the press. No doubt, he would point out that he was out manned by the likes of Shaq, D Howard and KG (just to name a few), so he did the best he could do under the circumstances. Perhaps he would also point out about the Hawks recent playoff appearances and beg for mercy. You’re right though, he would not have much leverage since Sund would have granted him most of his request. The only wrinkle in this scenario is the fact that Woody tenure with ASG is much longer then Sund. If woody worked the system, who knows what could happened. He’s done before with BK and survived, he could do it again with Sund.
Ken
July 20th, 2009
3:57 pm
I give up!! Just sign Siler, Solo, or whoever and call it a rap. Sund had a good off-season overall keeping our key free agents. In one of the worst drafts ever he good a pretty good player and in a very lack luster free agent market he didn’t overpay for a bench warmer. So I give Sund a pass. What’s up with Marv and training camp?
Maxx
July 20th, 2009
3:57 pm
It doesnt matter how hard Randolph Morris works, the fact is he’s soft. He’s got a nice shooting stroke and is a very good finesse offensive player, but that’s not what the Hawks need. We need a bulldog in the middle that will bang and defend and get boards. The more I see of Siler the more I think he could really be a nice steal for us. He’s not the Ben-Wallace-in-his-prime that we are all clamoring for, but he’s a big dude with nice athleticism and aggressiveness, and being a rookie this guy has a ton of room to improve. I was hollering last week that earl Barron was the answer, but I was wrong. I liked what I saw out of him when he was with Miami a couple of years ago, but I just watched him play with New Orleans in the summer league and I wasn’t impressed. He is an active tall guy but he doesn’t have the tenacity or strength I thought he did. He can still be a good veteran option off the bench for us though. My man Ted was right
Melvin
July 20th, 2009
3:58 pm
Hey look at the link below. I found RandMo offseason workout. Pretty impressive for the big fella…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNw_6DnFJ90&feature=related
martin
July 20th, 2009
3:58 pm
NO WAY Josh can play the 3. He cannot stretch the defensive and make open shots. Yes he has the body of a 3 and not a 4, but do to his lack of offensive skills, he cannot play the 3 now. That is what makes Marvin that much more essential to resign. Without Marvin, Mo Evans is our only other 3. I think Al could be very effective and dominate at the 4, I say bring Josh off the bench. Until he can make an open jumper, he does not need to take a shot or play a postion which requires him to take a jumper.
UGA
July 20th, 2009
4:03 pm
Clips trade QRichardson to the TWolves for Telfaire, Madsen and Craig Smith per ESPN
Melvin
July 20th, 2009
4:08 pm
UGA,
After the way Flynn dominated the Vegas Summer league, I’m no surprise the Wolves ship Telfair out of there…
UGA
July 20th, 2009
4:11 pm
One name I would like to entertain since it looks like we are not having much look in securing BIGS is Darius Songalia. He plays for Minnesota now, they have no use for him, we could use him as a back-up.
Melvin
July 20th, 2009
4:13 pm
If the Hawks could sign Barnes, I wonder if the Clips would do a Mo Evans for Craig Smith swap. Smith is a nasty wide body that could play valuable mins off the bench at the PF spot.
Air60
July 20th, 2009
4:24 pm
we dont really need another “great” big man. Only to shift Marvin to the Bench, and Put Pachulia in the starting role. Our rebounding will go up quit a bit. i would like for Woodson to play Solomon Jones, far far more often. Hes a good rebounder, blocker, and a good foul shooter, and gives us a guy who when he is strengthened up a bit more, can be the reserve big body for the future in terms of coming off the bench and giving us defense. Woodson just cant coach very well with the guys we have now. He doesnt use Mario West, either. With our entire backcourt in full swing, we dont have room for Mario, but at least let him play 6 minutes a game. If only if Woodson knew how to coach…….
UGA
July 20th, 2009
4:25 pm
Agree on Smith.
I’ve been out of town for awhile, did Matt Barnes have interest in us? Did the Hawks have interest here? What’s the deal?
jhan
July 20th, 2009
4:37 pm
ILL – are you really going to compare Smith to: Erving, Dantley, English & King? Those are some of the best SF’s to play in the NBA. I haven’t seen anything from Josh to suggest he will produce like those guys.
O'Brien
July 20th, 2009
4:37 pm
Currently, we have Josh, Al and ZaZa for almost all 96 minutes available to the front court. Last year’s averages (rounded up):
Horford: 34mpg, Josh: 35mpg and ZaZa: 20mpg.
That adds up to 89 minutes per game. So if they play the same amount of minutes this season, that leaves 7 minutes for another big.
Maybe thats why (so far), no big wants to come here (including Andersen), because unless someone gets hurt, they dont expect Woody to play them more than 8-10 minutes per game.
But Josh and Al (combined) missed 28 games last year (not including the playoffs, when we had no replacement for the injured Al). So if they get injured again, do we realistically expect a combination of Solo/RandMo/Siler/Hunter to give us extended minutes while being very effective?
On the flip side, if we dont sign another big, and Josh, Al or ZaZa gets hurt, I’m sure Woody will be quick to point out how injured we were.
The Truth
July 20th, 2009
4:40 pm
Logic
About your question: “do we know what our desired goal is?”
No I don’t think it’s a stupid question but a provocative one. As you suggested, I think it means different things to different people. Last year the consensus around here that defined a successful year for the Hawks was returning to the playoff and improving over the previous year. In that regard, mission was accomplished. I expect it will be the same this year as well. We must return to the playoff and improve of last year. Anything less, would be a regression. Are we ready to compete for a championship as the team is currently constructed? NO. Perhaps there lies the problem. Maybe ASG goals are to just be competitive, just to a turn a profit and nothing more. Perhaps with that kind of business model, no championship dollar outlay is required. However, our financial commitment has improved over past years so perhaps this process is a build block and we must be patient. We shall see.
jhan
July 20th, 2009
4:41 pm
I always liked Craig Smith as well – dude is a bowling ball in the lane.
UGA
July 20th, 2009
4:45 pm
We signed Teague, (Twitter from Micah Hart)
jhan
July 20th, 2009
4:48 pm
If the Hawks take the Cavs, Celtics or Magic to 7 games in the second round would that be considered progress? I think so. My personal goal is for this team to reach the ECF’s – lofty but not out of the question. We will need things to fall correctly but why not?
kirkinga
July 20th, 2009
4:50 pm
Speaking of beef, if Miami is able to sign Odom and/or Boozer, the Hawks’ hold on the 4th playoff spot would be in serious question barring any major injuries on the top 3 teams from last season.
Something is very wrong. The Hawks are supposed to be a team on the rise is that not true? Attractive team in an attractive city, all that.
So why is it they cannot get any of the FA’s they want? And to top it off while they are getting rejecting multiple times, they don’t want, can’t find the money for, can’t find the minutes for, players whose rights they hold that could possibly help them to varying degrees?
Let’s continue to hope there’s a trade coming, otherwise we’re not going to get a significant improvement in the frontline. Sign Siler, he might be worth a few extra tickets sales..or he could be Priest Lauderdale incarnate.
Go Hawks!!
Daniel
July 20th, 2009
4:52 pm
Hoops- I have been pushing for one of the Wizards front court bigs. Blatche is a very interesting choice, because he has been a real up and down player with a lot of off the court issues in DC. Which could be a good thing, in that they be willing to get rid of guy with his talent and a change of scenery may do him good. But, then again he may continue his antics with the Hawks where he would be less of a focal point and get even more distracted. I dunno.
Haywood though may be available, and very nice addition as a back up front court player.
Just a thought.
Hoops
July 20th, 2009
5:24 pm
I really hope the Hawks can sign a BIG to come off the bench that is better than Morris/Siler/Solo. If not, then what about this thought?
Re-sign Marvin (it will happen eventually). Sign Barnes. When we need a back up PF, use Marvin at PF some while Barnes and JJ can play SF.
dos hawkquis
July 20th, 2009
5:27 pm
I hate to hear when professional athletes are “working harder than ever…” Shouldn’t they have been “working harder than ever” when they came into the league?
They said the same thing about Vick, before his troubles..”Mike Vick has been working harder this year than ever before in his career…”
Everyone keeps saying, “The Hawks need another big man!!” Woody won’t play them. Solo average 6min per game and Randolph 3? How much time will this “other big man get?”
“I don’t always laugh at big men, but when I do, I prefer laughing at Randawful Morris. Stay thirsty my friend!”
I MUS WRITE
July 20th, 2009
5:29 pm
Chris taft was spotted in the parking lot of Magic City foaming from the mouth, counting dollar bills, waiting for the doors to open…..Its probably best that he doesnt come to camp here -maybe Minnesota is the place for him.
Hoops
July 20th, 2009
5:33 pm
Melvin,
I like your trade of Evans for Smith. The money is the same. Then we have to go after Barnes!
Craig could help off the bench at PF, even though he is only 6′ 7″/250lbs. Barnes would make us better, backing up Marvin, than Evans.
Maxx
July 20th, 2009
5:36 pm
I MUS WRITE- Hilarious!
Mr. GO HAWKS!
July 20th, 2009
5:42 pm
Melvin,
Craig Smith can provide scoring off the bench, but he isn’t much of a rebounder.
Mr. GO HAWKS!
July 20th, 2009
5:53 pm
Miami doesn’t plan on matching Moon’s offer from Cleveland, and a source said that Matt Barnes was trying to decide between Cleveland or Atlanta. So that means the Hawks are an option. Unless another team comes up with a last minute offer. I can’t picture the Cavs having Delonte West, Anthony Parker, those two rookies they drafted, and Matt Barnes.
DJ
July 20th, 2009
5:54 pm
Hopefully the lineup for the hawks in 09-10:
Mike – Jeff – Mario
Joe – Jamal- Mario
Hakim Warrik – Mo Evans
Josh – Ike -??
Al – Zaza – Garrett
Hakim Warrik and Ike Diogu are in and Marvin is out. If you look at Ike Diogus last 2 games (the only games where he got minutes)he produced and produced BIG. Hakim Warrik would do good replacing Marvin. He is Athleticc, the downside about him is that he is like Josh Smith, which is not really a bad thing but with Mike Woodsen?!? Sign Garret Siler from mini camp because he did OK in the Summer League. Sekou, what do you think?
DJ
July 20th, 2009
5:56 pm
And Matt Barnes is not going to come to the Hawks, he is probably going to go the Cleveland or Orlando
DJ
July 20th, 2009
5:57 pm
and sign back Othello
Mr. GO HAWKS!
July 20th, 2009
6:00 pm
Yupperz,
Tony Battie isn’t a free agent, sorry.
Mr. GO HAWKS!
July 20th, 2009
6:04 pm
What’s wrong with you guys? Hakim Warrick isn’t a SF, so he couldn’t replace Marvin, not even if he wanted to.
Jody
July 20th, 2009
6:24 pm
Great piece Sekou!
I agree with what was said about Josh Smith. People think that he can’t play the 3, but I disagree. You don’t have to be a great perimeter shooter to play small forward. Actually, I think moving Josh there again would encourage him to play more in the post because of the mismatch he would have every time down the floor. Some don’t see it, but one of the reasons Josh may settle for some of those jumpers is because it can get really physical in the paint having to battle bigger guys for 40+ minutes. Folks need to be patient with Josh if anything else. He’s basically playing a position on the pro level that he didn’t play prior to that and he’s doing it because he’s a team player.
Chea
July 20th, 2009
6:29 pm
Glad to see that there are more people supporting Ike Diogu; it makes no sense that the Kings don’t want him after he produced like he did in their last two games. They are going after Sean May instead!
Their loss, and if Sund wants to help this team get to 50 wins, it will be our gain.
DJ
July 20th, 2009
6:32 pm
MR,GO HAWKS,
Why couldnt he play the 3? If people say Josh Smith can play the three(which he could) Hakim Warrik could do it.
Hawks Still Seeking Big Man - NBA Core
July 20th, 2009
6:33 pm
[...] the sort of psychological security you get with the aforementioned bigs that have gone elsewhere. Where’s the Beef? | Hawks Blog [...]
macaroni tony
July 20th, 2009
6:38 pm
Just saw youtube footage on Corey “Homicide” Williams, I saw sign him for one year…
macaroni tony
July 20th, 2009
6:39 pm
Just saw youtube footage on Corey “Homicide” Williams, I say sign him for one year…
darrell starks
July 20th, 2009
6:51 pm
What up sekou, why are we so caught up in getting a big man the question is can he play but beside all that,the hawks more focus on just getting by not winning a championship.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
Blast
July 20th, 2009
7:00 pm
Ray, great series of posts.
Truth, Hawks ain’t winning a championship yet. Goals for the team right now? My take.
1. If you cannot improve your seeding from last year, at least keep the 4th spot at all cost.
2. Win 50+ games.
3. Win a playoff second round series. Basically, get to the conference finals. Or at least advance deep into the second.
I know this. Hawks as they are right now, CAN probably win a championship, but ONLY if they get through the East. I say that because Hawks match up well against most of the top West teams. LA, Nuggets, Houston, Portland, maybe not San Antonio, Dallas. Hawks beat the nuggets out of Chris Paul and his crew, so Hawks play the West well. Their nemesis is in their own conference. Boston, Cleveland, Orlando. They squeak by those three teams somehow, heh, who knows? But there lies the problem.
Never seen Siler play, but from reports, I would take him over Morris anyday.
Go, Hawks, Go.
Professor
July 20th, 2009
7:06 pm
The Hawks will never win with Josh Smith period. The whole makeup of this team is flawed and until someone in the Hawks front office sees this than we are wasting our time and money. No one wants to come play for us because the Hawks don’t know what the hell they are doing. Hell, we don’t even know who our owner is!!!!!