Still a work in progress
Marvin Williams doesn't have a new deal yet, but it should be a slam dunk with both sides clear on what it's going to take to get it done.
HAWKSVILLE - The word spreading around the NBA summer league in Las Vegas is that Marvin Williams and the Hawks have agreed to terms on a new deal (so say our friends at hoopsworld.com).
That would be news to Williams.
“Somebody is lying to them,” Williams said via text message Sunday afternoon. “That’s not true.”
As reported here last week, the Hawks are working hard to get something done.
But it’s not done.
Not yet.
In defense of the folks at HOOPSWORLD, their headline (”Marvin Williams gets his deal”) reads much stronger than the actual text of their item, which clearly states that “sources” told them that the sides are “close” to a new deal.
It makes sense that they heard that. Everybody in this business has sources.
Still, when asked Sunday afternoon if the sides had a deal in place, Jim Tanner, who represents not only Williams but also Zaza Pachulia and Josh Childress, responded via text, “NO.”
On the bright side, Williams did say that the injuries (back and wrist) that soured the end of his fourth season are healing fine and that he is lifting and doing court work these days in anticipation of another strong season.
And as I wrote in an entry last week, the situation for Williams looks like this: “Using Charlie Villanueva’s deal in Detroit (5 years, $40 million-range) as your guide, things should get much easier to decipher in the curious case of Marvin Williams. With a qualifying offer of $7.5 million, we’re not talking about anything out of the ordinary her for a guy that’s proved to be a valuable starter the past three years. Finding another 6-9 starting small forward that fits the way he does on this team will not be easy, despite all of the suggestions around here to the contrary. Respected and prolific colleague Mark Bradley has suggested many times that if any of the Hawks’ remaining building blocks was expendable it was Marvin. But as I look across the free agent landscape, I cannot co-sign that theory. Not with the free agent moves/trades that have gone on in the Eastern Conference since draft night. Not with Hedo Turkoglu in Toronto now and Vince Carter in his old spot in Orlando. And not with Villanueva in Detroit and the addition of Rasheed Wallace in Boston. The length the Hawks used to their advantage across the frontline with Williams, Josh Smith and Al Horford is more critical than ever. Even in one of the many proposed sign-and-trade deals offered up around these parts, I don’t see the Hawks adding the piece that could take Marvin’s place on this roster (in fit, size and temperament … three crucial factors that Marvin brings that go largely unnoticed by the public). The Hawks have made clear their preference for Marvin to remain a part of the core of this team and I see no reason why that shouldn’t happen. I can’t see any scenario where he is not a part of this team in the future.”
This isn’t high-level economics we’re talking about here people. It’s simply the art of negotiating. The team comes low, the representative for the player comes high and ultimately the sides make nice, after a whole lot of haggling over details, and decide to meet in the middle somewhere.
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362 comments Add your comment
Big Ray
July 13th, 2009
8:15 pm
Iverson doesn’t have the answer anymore Blast . He has become bitter. He’s going to look worse than Stephon Marbury, which really is classless. I hope he doesn’t go out like this but you neeeeeever know.
Blast
July 13th, 2009
8:19 pm
Bibby said Woody is one of the best coaches he has ever played for. Did Mike mean that?
Woody said he will welcome Childress back with open arms. Oh, ain’t that sweet.
Make it happen!
Blast
July 13th, 2009
8:24 pm
I know, Ray. It would be a shame if he bombs out like that. AI was an inspiration to a lot of kids.
Sautee
July 13th, 2009
8:28 pm
Rod,
One last try.
You said this: “Again, I admitted that he does have some blocks in an earlier post.”
Congratulations on your admission. Seriously. I know it wasn’t easy.
But what I was asking is how you could have watched the Hawks over the last 3 years and NEVER have seen Marvin block a shot. That’s what you SAID, man.
So Rod, was it an exaggeration? That’s all I’ve been after in both cases. Fighting the hype.
And I do NOT remember “attacking” you over the 60% comment. We both got rather heated in the aftermath, but I do NOT remember an initial attack, but rather, once again, questioning the veracity of the comment. I’ll go back and check the archive and if I attacked you, I’ll apologize.
Anakin Joe
July 13th, 2009
8:33 pm
After reading the last 3 hours worth of posts, I was reminded of one of my favorite new blog terms… “Fact Resistant Fans”.
Traceman, you’re my new hero.
Ariose/nire, let me know when I need to start wrapping pennies for that hair care/umbrella purchase.
KevinA
July 13th, 2009
8:38 pm
Jay, If you inserted Chills name in your post instead of Marvin, would it fit? Seems so to me.
Rod from College Park
July 13th, 2009
8:38 pm
Jay,
Well stated post. I don’t feel that we should pay 7 to 8 million dollars for a role player. That’s it. My opinion. All of the players that I listed in my opinion are better overall players than Marvin. While I do agree that a flawed system can stunt you as a player, great players can always rise above the system. To me Marvin is and will always be an average NBA player. I don’t feel average players should be rewarded with that kind of money. I would prefer that we hitch our wagon to Chills, who in my opinion is a better more versatile player.
Sautee,
I already said it was an exaggeration. Happy?
Rod from College Park
July 13th, 2009
8:41 pm
The list was in repsonse to O’brien who told me that I could not list 10 or 15 small forwards in the league that were better than Marvin. I did. (IN MY OPINION).
Nookah
July 13th, 2009
8:44 pm
If I am Woody and I just got the news that Orlando matched the offer for Gortat along with the fact that they signed Bass before, I am in Rick Sund’s office pleading to get the best big man available. If not then Orlando just increased the gap between us. Sad but true.
Someone said earlier that Woody said we were looking for 2 more big men? I hope it’s 2 productive bigs rather than pine warmers. I think Wilcox just became more valuable to the Hawks.
Go Hawks!!!
Nookah
July 13th, 2009
8:45 pm
Childress on 690 the zone.
Go Hawks!!!!
Melvin
July 13th, 2009
8:50 pm
Nookah,
Do 690 the zone have a link… If not, I want a full report….lol
Aroise,
Where ya at when I need ya…. Get me that link, buddy….
Nookah
July 13th, 2009
8:52 pm
Childress says he enjoyed his time in Greece and it was a good life experience for him. He watched the Hawks on-line sometimes but because of the time difference he was unable to follow too closely.
3D asked him if he was bitter but he said he was happy with his move and enjoyed the experience. Money was not the major factor.
3D – Will I get a chance to say Afro Power to the basket again?
Childress: Yu might. I have until the 15th and I can’t really say right now but you might!!
The tone sounds like he left us with a lot of wiggle room. Sounds like there is a possibility he will be back!!!!
Go Hawks!!!
Anakin Joe
July 13th, 2009
8:54 pm
Samuel, did you call Wilcox a shot blocker earlier?
Nookah
July 13th, 2009
8:55 pm
I just picked it up on the internet. I’m way up North, Canada. Oh by the way my bad….790 the Zone not 690!!!! Sorry about that!!!
Go online and go on 790thezone.com
I tried to give you as much as I could. Not a long discussion. Chills was in Cali.
Go Hawks
Jay
July 13th, 2009
8:56 pm
Big Ray,
thanks–even if you disagree. And it is a shame to see what the Answer is becoming–the epitome of selfishness.
KevinA,
If it was Chills, I would have added crashing the offensive boards and his versatility–able to play the 1, 2 and 3–as part of his offensive repertoire. Personally, I’d rather see Chills as the starting forward with Marvin coming of the bench.
Rod,
I can understand your reasoning about paying a large dollar amount to role players and I don’t mean any harm but the Hawks are going to pay $9 million to Jamal Crawford to be a role player, the Pistons just gave $10 million to Ben Gordon to be a role player and Lamar Odom wants $10 million to be a role player for the Lakers. I know 6th men are often considered quasi-starters but they are still role players. At least Williams is a starter.
Samuel
July 13th, 2009
9:00 pm
I did, why?
Samuel
July 13th, 2009
9:01 pm
Are we seriously comparing Marvin to Paul Pierce?
Melvin
July 13th, 2009
9:02 pm
Thanks Nookah…. I hope the Fro comes back.
Anakin, you need to start wrapping those pennies (at least for good luck).
Nire/Ariose,
Who’s address do I need to send the box(es) of Soul Glow to?
Melvin
July 13th, 2009
9:04 pm
Nookah,
No wonder I couldn’t find it. I was looking for 690. LOL…
Sautee
July 13th, 2009
9:06 pm
Rod,
Thanks. And I must have missed your saying it was an exaggeration when you said it before. I thought it was merely an admission of “yes, he had blocks”.
Sorry about that.
And I looked at the archive. Our initial set-to was in February on the Hacks blog, and I did NOT attack you with my initial post, but I DID question the veracity of some statements you made (Al Thornton as a second rounder, Marvin as 6′11″, and “falls every time he goes to the hole” – later amended to 60% of the time he drives).
So your memory was faulty about my initial post to you. If you care to fact check it’s in the February archive for the Hacks entitled A Few Trade Thoughts”. Your post was at 11:38 on 2/9 and mine was at 2:27 the same day. I freely admit that we both got out of bounds after that. But we’ve since made peace, and I hope this does so again.
So thanks again for admitting the hyperbole.
I’ll say once again that you and I have PLENTY of common ground about our Hawks.
Anakin Joe
July 13th, 2009
9:09 pm
Samuel, I would welcome Wilcox but I’m not sure that he is a “shot-blocker”.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=1731
Rod from College Park
July 13th, 2009
9:20 pm
Jay,
“I can understand your reasoning about paying a large dollar amount to role players and I don’t mean any harm but the Hawks are going to pay $9 million to Jamal Crawford to be a role player, the Pistons just gave $10 million to Ben Gordon to be a role player and Lamar Odom wants $10 million to be a role player for the Lakers. I know 6th men are often considered quasi-starters but they are still role players. At least Williams is a starter.”
In my opionion, all three are much better players than Marvin. For those that have doubts, I think Jamal will prove himself to you this year. Gordon and Odom are not in the same league with Marvin.
Blog Z Historian
July 13th, 2009
9:30 pm
Satuee forgot that 3 weeks later Rod showed up again swearing on the Good Book that 60% was accurate:
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/hawks/entries/2009/03/02/better_late_tha.html
“Doc, I stand by my 60% statement. The guy can’t stay on his feet. Again, I was roasted on the other board about stating facts.”
Well, I guess better 5 months late than never!!!!!!!!!!
KevinA
July 13th, 2009
9:35 pm
Nookah, What did Chills have to say.
Ariose
July 13th, 2009
9:36 pm
Doc, LOL, you know I was jus messin’ with ya
The more links the better! that’s my motto lol….and don’t go getting all mushy on me lol 
. I still manage to drop by when school’s in….occasionally hehehe…
Ariose
July 13th, 2009
9:37 pm
Melvin, hold yer horses. Chills is on Twitter but he hasn’t responded to me or nire, don’t know what he’s thinking, but we’ll know in about 30-48 hours.
darrell starks
July 13th, 2009
9:39 pm
Wow some one call me and said that chill would luv to comeback if this is true the hawks would be on the right path.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
niremetal
July 13th, 2009
9:43 pm
Ha….Ariose, much as I wish it were true, I don’t we’d be the first people Chill would tell if he were coming back
That being said, I hope he either 1) comes back, or 2) is S&Ted. Because lord knows we can’t have his cap hold on our books next summer too…
Ariose
July 13th, 2009
9:44 pm
Melvin, not sure how to get that link. Usually doc or AJ links the radio stuff. I forgot where to go heh.
darrell starks
July 13th, 2009
9:44 pm
If rick sund sign wilcox and chill he becomes gm of the year with all of the work he had to deal with this summer.
GO HAWKS!!!!!
Ariose
July 13th, 2009
9:46 pm
nie, amen to that. But he probably will be S&Ted. The maker will be so bad next summer. I’m sure his agents know this.
Ariose
July 13th, 2009
9:47 pm
*Nire
Mike V
July 13th, 2009
9:49 pm
Orlando matches the Mavs offer for Gortat. That’s a LOT of bigs down there in Orlando. They’re getting scary. I kinda like the idea of them locking up $7 mil a year for Gortat though while we’re getting Zaza for under $5 mil.
niremetal
July 13th, 2009
9:52 pm
Well, you know Gortat will be none too pleased about that…
Samuel
July 13th, 2009
9:52 pm
OK Joe,
Maybe he jumps so high that people are afraid to shoot over him. Anyways, he’s a good player and he should be rested since they basically wasted him last year in OKC and NY.
Speaking of NYC. I see my boy EC has slimmed down to around 320.
Ariose
July 13th, 2009
9:52 pm
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=Gortatmatch-090713&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dhollinger_john%26page%3dGortatmatch-090713
Magic really pulled a fast one lol!
darrell starks
July 13th, 2009
9:53 pm
JUST WHAT IF !!!!!!!!!!
2009 ATLANTA HAWKS
STARTER BIBBY, JOE, MARVIN, JOSH, HORFORD,
BENCH FLIP, JAMAL, CHILL, WILCOX, ZAZA,
RESERVE TEAGUE, SOLO
AND PUT MOE IN SWEAT SUIT
DEEPEST TEAM IN THE NBA.
Ariose
July 13th, 2009
9:55 pm
Melvin, usually Doc or AJ links the radio stuff. I’ve forgotten hot ot get to the site lol!
niremetal
July 13th, 2009
9:55 pm
Alright, this is hysterical:
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sport24.gr%2Fhtml%2Fent%2F790%2Fent.303790.asp&sl=el&tl=en&history_state0=
That’s the Google translation page of the Greek media report saying Childress is staying in Greece. Apparently, it translated “Childress” as “Tsilntres.”
I like that better. I think I’ll call him Josh Tsilntres from now on.
Ariose
July 13th, 2009
9:58 pm
DS, you’ve STILL got yoom on your list to add Gerald Green.
Ariose
July 13th, 2009
9:58 pm
*room
darrell starks
July 13th, 2009
10:01 pm
ARIOSE i like gerald green to.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
niremetal
July 13th, 2009
10:02 pm
Ariose,
Don’t you mean Gerald Green (800k!!!)?
Jay
July 13th, 2009
10:02 pm
Rod,
you wrote:
“In my opionion, all three are much better players than Marvin. For those that have doubts, I think Jamal will prove himself to you this year. Gordon and Odom are not in the same league with Marvin.”
You cannot be serious. Crawford will certainly fill the scoring role vacated by Murray’s free agency and can be an excellent passer. But he’s exactly known for his defense, rebounding or leadership.
Gordon is a one-trick pony; he shoots–whether he’s on fire or ice cold. He can shoot you into a game or shoot you out of a game. Granted he can be an effective scorer but he’s not an efficient scorer. He doesn’t rebound, assist, play defense or do the little things and has never shown an inclination to do anything but shoot.
Odom is one of the most skilled players in the league–his excellent ballhandling skills separate him from almost all frontcourt players, including Williams–however, the truth is that he doesn’t “bring it” every night. Whether it is a lack of intensity or too much of a willingness to defer to the best player on his team, there are too many occasions on which he disappears, much like Williams.
With that said, if Crawford is worth $9M, Odom wants $10M and Gordon is getting more than $10M, how can you justify not paying between $7.5M and $8M for Williams?
Ariose
July 13th, 2009
10:04 pm
hahahaha Nire, yup!!!
Ariose
July 13th, 2009
10:10 pm
Did you know there is only ONE clip of Jamal Crawford Dunking on youtube??
….I WANT FLIP!!! Crawford will not take it to the tin like Flip. BRING BACK FLIP…..AND GERALD GREEN(800K!!!!)
niremetal
July 13th, 2009
10:15 pm
Now THAT’S what I’m talking about, Ariose!
Rod from College Park
July 13th, 2009
10:50 pm
Jay,
Once again in my opinion he is not that caliber player.
“You cannot be serious. Crawford will certainly fill the scoring role vacated by Murray’s free agency and can be an excellent passer. But he’s exactly known for his defense, rebounding or leadership.”
Neither is Marvin.
“Gordon is a one-trick pony; he shoots–whether he’s on fire or ice cold. He can shoot you into a game or shoot you out of a game. Granted he can be an effective scorer but he’s not an efficient scorer. He doesn’t rebound, assist, play defense or do the little things and has never shown an inclination to do anything but shoot.”
The guy almost beat the Celtics by himself. He an unstoppable offensive player, Marvin is not.
“Odom is one of the most skilled players in the league–his excellent ballhandling skills separate him from almost all frontcourt players, including Williams–however, the truth is that he doesn’t “bring it” every night. Whether it is a lack of intensity or too much of a willingness to defer to the best player on his team, there are too many occasions on which he disappears, much like Williams.”
Do we really have to argue this one?
MannyT
July 13th, 2009
10:57 pm
TIME IS MONEY!
Imagine if the agent for mos tof these big men had been able to delay negotiations for an extra day or two. Dalls has a MLE slot buring a hole in the Cubillionaire’s wallet. I could see them tossing much of that at another big, like Zaza.
So the 2nd wave of big men will have a chance at a better pay day as the Magic realize that Gortat will make less than Battie next season.
Just a note, some of the better teams are paying above MLE money for guys on their bench. For all the Marvin argument, it’s like I mentioned the other day, compensation and contribution are separate issues.
The richest 2 people in the world are at Microsoft & Berkshire Hathaway. Notice how often those company names show up on the top compensation list for 2008…
http://projects.nytimes.com/executive_compensation
All that to say, Marvin will get paid. It might not be top dollar, but it will be a decent, above MLE, multi year contract. Paraphrasing Billy Jack–he’s gonna put his right wallet pocket against the RFA side of the Hawks bank account, and there isn’t a thing you can do about it.
BWAF
Sekou Smith
July 13th, 2009
10:59 pm
New blog is up.