Let’s make a deal

Sekou I have a question about this July 15th date with David Andersen and Chills. Is that the date they both can become free agents from their Euro teams or the date they have to let their Euro teams know if they are coming back? Could it be possible the Hawks already have a trade in place for Chills but have to wait till the 15th for it to go down?

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I’d definitely say the Spurs made the best move by acquiring RJ. Bowen had been phased out of their rotation anyway, Oberto had seen a major drop in his minutes, and Kurt Thomas was basically replaced/improved with the addition of McDyess. Count me in the camp (which apparently includes 28 GMs) that believes DaJuan Blair will be an abject failure in the NBA, but even if I’m right about that, the Spurs have had a great summer so far.

I’ve expressed my skepticism of the Shaq trade and the Vince trade many times. The latter trade came at the price of re-signing Hedo, who’s tailor-made for StanVan’s system, and I think trading for Shaq will work out even worse for Cleveland than it did for Phoenix. Rasheed and Artest are high-risk signings for teams that had near-perfect chemistry before the trade (Sheed in particular was a big risk given that he’s become enamored with his three point shot – which is hardly what the Celtics need from him). And Houston letting Artest go and replacing him with Ariza? Don’t even get me started.

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HawkKingBibby, Andersen and Chillz have until July 15th to opt out of their Euro deals. Once July 15th passes and they have not indicated they will opt out, then they are under contract with their respective Euro teams for the next year and the process starts over again next season (both have the same clauses after next season as well).

It is not possible for the Hawks to “need” to wait until the 15th, a deal could be done right now if Chillz were to exercise his opt out clause.

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The cavs signed Anthony Parker too…

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yes the celts are old. but i think they had a great shot of repeating last year of kg hadn’t gotten hurt. rondo is the best pg in the east. pierce is still as clutch as they come. a frontcourt rotation of kg, sheed and perkins is downright scary. i just don’t see how teams are going to get points in the paint against them.

i’d be satisfied with the hawks offseason if they can manage to resign marv, get chills to come back and get andersen to come from europe. i think with that kind of depth the hawks can’t finish worse than 3rd in the east.

i think orlando took the biggest step back. vc has made every team he’s been on mediocre and that’s a fact.

o’brien. um i think they got one more insurance policy in case bibby or crawford gets hurt. his name is jeff teague.

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I am actually pleased thus far with Sund’s ability to keep our own guys here, but now we need to look at what makes us a championship contender and not just a play-off team. I think we need to get the deal for Marvin done and then look at some of the trade possibilities available to us. I think that we have 3 big chips to deal: Josh Smith, Josh Childress, and Joe Johnson… We have a solid 4 in Hortford, a nice back-up center in Zaza, a solid 3 in Marvin, and decent PG in Bibby, a good prospect in Teague (but he needs some minutes), and a good 6th man in Crawford(I see him playing back-up at the 2 and a little time at point), and 8th man in Evans. But we really need a center and a 2 guard in the event Joe leaves next year in free agency. I am all for locking him up, but if we see that there is a chance he may go elsewhere we need to go ahead and trade him… Here are some trades that I think look good:

Childress and Smith to the Suns for Studamire and Barbosa.
Childress and Smith to the Bulls for Deng and Heinrich.
Childress and Smith to Toronto for Bosh.
Joe Johnson and Childress to Minnesota for Al Jefferson.
Josh Smith and Joe Johnson to the Warriors for Biedrins, Magette, and Wright.

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Sekou, I keep asking you what you think would be fair compensation if we tried to trade for a Camby or Chandler. Their teams want to dump salary and they will be in the last year of their contracts. Also, is it possible that either would sign a new deal as a condition of the trade, or is it a foregone conclusion that they would want to become UFA’s after this season?

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I can’t believe that Sekou found a picture of Monty Hall. Sekou, I hope you got all of the dust and mildew off your hands. Monty Hall? Talk about pulling something out of your… I LOVE IT!

Let’s make a deal with the Nets for one of they’re serviceable big men (not Sean Williams, I want Josh Boone). They have a nice collection of PFs. If we still had $7M in expiring contracts, maybe we could get Tony Battie. Oh well.

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Ward, Slow Down On Trading Everybody. It Took Us Ten Years To Get This Far. Be Cool, Were On The Right Path With Rick Sund GM Of The Year 2009.

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Nire,

What happen to the DING after the trade scenarios above??? My goodness…

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Sorry Melvin…my alarm needs new batteries

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Sekou,

I saw that brief conversation with you and JChill on his/your twitter pages (Ariose isn’t awoke yet to post it). Man if we could get him back along with another big (Andersen) and resign Marvin. We would be loaded.

I may purchase the full season packages (instead of the smaller package) and give the tixs to the games I can’t make to Anakin/Astro Joe….

Bring the FRO’ back to the ATL…

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I’m taking a wait and see approach regarding KG’s health with the Celtics. If Rasheed is being added to the mix, then they are likely the team to beat. But if he is essentially replacing KG, then I’m not so sure.

Truthfully, Orlando seems to be the team that isn’t dependent on oneof their main players getting and staying healthy. If the Lakers resign Odom, it my not be wise to bet against the champs.

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Melvin, would I be required to scream like a little girl at an Usher concert everytime Smith dunks the ball? If so… I can do that.

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The Hawks should trade Josh Smith and Childress to Phoenix for Stoudamire. Amare makes 16.8 million, Josh Smith makes 10.8 million so we would just have to sign Childress to a 5 million a year contract and the trade would then work. Plus Smooth and Childress would fit in perfectly with Nash and the run and gun Suns. I know a lot depends on whether Childress wants to come back to America, but it seems his market value is in that 5 to 5.5 million dollar range and I would think that the Suns would not see a better deal. Amare would allow us to move Hortford to the PF spot and he could master the 10 to 15 foot jump shot. We would also have for the first time a low post presence that our offense could work through. Imagine how much easier Joe’s job would be.

Our Team would be:
PG Bibby
SG JJ
SF Marvin
PF Hortford
C Stoudemire

PG Teague
SG J Crawford
SF M Evans
PF D Anderson
C Zaza

I would then keep Mario and Randolph and if possible resign Flip, but I doubt that is possible.

I think this team would compete with Cleveland, Boston and Orlando. Our starting line up is as good as good as it gets and for the first time maybe ever we could consistently go 9 or 10 deep. Joe would no longer have to play 40 minutes a night and you could reduce Bibby’s minutes as well.

What do you think and is it even a realistic trade?

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Melvin, Nah I saw it lol. I was talking to chills too hehehehe…

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Morris, Solo, Hunter Evans Gardner, Flip,West, If you
add all their Salaries together (rounded) = 7.5 million.

Crawford = 9 million.

7.5 + 9 = 16.5 mil

Keepers New Salary Old Salary Drop

Solo 1 million .78 Hunter .442

Evans 2.5 2.5 Gardner .712

Flip 2.5 1.5 West .712

Gooden 2.5 1.7 Morris .865

Chills 6 4.4 Crawford 9.0

Total 14.5

Using these numbers we have 2 million left for an upgrade.
I like the Chills/Gooden vrs Crawford.

With a Gooden signing we could do a Evans or Solo upgrade.

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Ariose,

Did chills respond to you? On the work computer, I can’t get to that site.

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Podge,

BYC rules and Josh’s trade kicker make that trade impossible.

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O’Brien,

No – the Nets’ last appearance past the second round was in 02-03. VC was traded there in…(*drum roll*) 2004.

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What did Chills have to say

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Oh, forgive all the spelling and grammar errors in my last post. I really am better than that…

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Sekou, the 4 team trade is a beautiful thing in the business of basketball. For all the Jesus for Judas trades that get posted on blogs, I always ask myself–why would the team getting Judas do that deal? The article you linked gives good reason for those other teams to get in the deal.

Over the cap, new to luxury tax Orlando picked up a 7 mil trade exception by playing nice in this deal. Even though they are in luxury tax land, they can swing a better deal to help their team in the next year than the Hawks. The Grizz probably made real $$$ by facilitating the trade once they buy out Stackhouse. That’s why you GM all the time–even when you have nothing much to do–because opportunity is always there IF you see it.

We still have our MLE and we need to add a frontcourt player. Either we get him the normal free agent way or we deal Chills and/or Andersen’s rights to get it done. They are the only low use assets that we have.

…and I like Cleveland’s move to pick up Anthony Parker. It’s not flashy, but it gives them someone to defend a larger 2 guard like Joe. He’s not a star, but he is bigger than their other guards and probably came at a reasonable price.

BWAF

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Since the Hawks won’t trade Smoove + Chillz for Amare/Bosh (who both apparently suck according to some of the geniuses on this blog), we need SMOOVE AND HORFORD TO STEP THEIR GAMES UP. NO MORE 8 & 8 SEASONS FROM HORFORD.

I WANT TO SEE THEM BIGGER, BETTER POST MOVES, BETTER SHOOTING, AND SMOOVE TO LEARN HOW TO DRIBBLE THE BALL

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I’d love to have flip back, I thought he was underated last year.
I like a few others think SA is back, not sure if the knock on Blair (2nd round) was his knees? Either way, I think he was a 1st round talent and his knees should hold up playing 20 minutes off the bench. WTF do i know though!!!!!
Go Hawks, great offseason!!! Keep it up!

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!!!!!!!!!!! P L E A S E !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

STOP THE DAMN AMARE TRADE FANTASY’S!

IT’LL NEVER HAPPEN!

AND IM NOT SURE IF I EVEN WANT SOME OF THOSE OFFERS THAT YALL ARE FANTASIZING ABOUT TO GO THROUGH!

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MannyT, I agree. Parker is a very nice pick-up, for guarding Vince, Ray Allen and Joe. Seems like teams are working there way down the FA pecking order. Another few days and we may start seeing guys like Rodney Carney, Frye and Joe Smith get snatched up.

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Obrien, why do you think we drafted Teague, to play center? What do you mean, we need another pg?

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Let’s see. The Hawks quickly resign Zaza and Bibby. The Thrashers make good free agent moves. If this keeps up, we might not be able to call Alanta Spirit Group the laughing stock of sports.

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I still think it doesn’t matter who we get, if Woodson doesnt like them and doesn’t play to the player’s strengths, we will never make it to the title. I love our team, for the past few years we have had some awesome players and the only reason we have gotten better is because they have grown older and gotten better, not because Woody has done anything. Woodson’s coaching is like having a muscle car with about 6 catalytic converters and some governors on it bogging it down! Get a new coach and have a higher ceiling!

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Sekou…….

What is the status of Big Baby Davis? What would be the possibility of the Hawks offering Davis to help fill the gap of depth for big men?

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I don’t think the Hawks’ ownership will approve the Hawks surpassing the luxury tax. Therefore, I think it’s time to start getting used to the idea that Marvin Williams will never wear a Hawks jersey, again.

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This time last yr, Philly made a big splash by signing EBrand to a huge FA contract. Right off the bat, some of you proclaimed them a much better team and another reason the Hawks would fail to make the playoffs again. I definitely remember our friend ANDO being among that number because I addressed him directly about it. I feel, as I felt then, that adding a dynamic player to an existing starting lineup can set a team back by creating chemistry and adjustment issues. I call that the PHILLY FACTOR, and it can end up playing a major roll in Orlando and Cleveland’s seasons with the additions of VCarter and Shaq.

If Shaq starts, it means one of their starters will have to be benched. If it’s Ilgouskas, it will make them bigger and stronger inside, but will reduce their ability to score outside. Shaq’s inside presence will also reduce their ability to attack the basket like the did so successfully last yr. It will also make them slower, and Shaq is even worse at playing the pick and roll than Ilgouskas. Orlando consistently and effectively exploited that weakness in eliminating Cleveland from the playoffs. His presence could definitely cause Cleveland to suffer from the PHILLY EFFECT.

Losing Turkouglu will have a major impact oN their OFF. He was their PF/PF(point forward), OFF facilitator, outside shooter, especially from 3pt range, and their biggest matchup advantage. VCarter can’t replace any of those attributes. Also, adding Vince and losing Turkouglu will require them to start 2 new players, and that could create the PHILLY EFFECT. Also, losing Gortat, their very effective backup center, will put additional pressure on DHoward.

The fact we’ll have our top 6 players returning could end up being one of our biggest assets. Adding Teague and Crawford gives us the improved speed, quickness, outside shooting, penetrating ability, DEF(ability to pressure the ball at the point) and PG/SG depth we’ve lacked off the bench

Here’s why it doesn’t make much sense to resign Flip. First, with Crawford and Teague needing mins, there’s no way he can repeat the 24+ mins per gm he averaged last yr. Trying to divide mins for 3 players that basically perform the same needs will reduce the overall effectiveness of all 3. It would also put Woodson in a position of having to do something he’s proven unable or unwilling to do, and that’s effectively manage more than 3 players off the bench, along with their mins. Although Flip did a very good job off the bench, I believe some issues developed between he, Woodson and some of his teammates. Down the stretch, Flip tried to become a one man OFF and hogged the ball an awful lot.

OVERALL, IF WE GET OFF TO A STRONG START AND AVOID FATIGUE ISSUES THE 2ND HALF OF THE SEASON, I CAN SEE US OVERTAKING ORLANDO FOR THE 3ND SEED.

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I don’t understand the upgrade with getting Amar’e to replace Josh? Josh is less injury prone, and other than that both are pretty dominating around the basket, but Josh is far more athletic. Not to mention he was about the only person, other than ZaZa, who stepped up in the playoffs last year, meanwhile Amare watched from his seat at home. I think the guy is a system player who benefits greatly from having Steve Nash get him the ball near the basket. Not interested in trading the Smoove Highlight Reel for anything. Another thing to mention, have you seen the Hawks play defense without Josh Smith’s shot blocking ability present? It’s abismal. We need Josh defensively more than offensively.

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OK guys we brought Bibby back (and hope that Teague steals many of his minutes)!

I read between the lines in Rick Sunds interviews and he has NEVER spoken as enthusiastically about Marvin as Woody has (and Marvin did not meet the goals Woody set for him prior to last year).

Thorton and Camby would be a huge net gain because Camby’s defense would make up for the difference between Thorton and Marvin’s defense.
Thorton is a more agressive offensive player.

I also think that Travis Outlaw is a better more complete option, and if we could do a Sign and Trade with Marvin and Chills or Marvin/Anybody for Outlaw and Channing Frye.

Any thoughts?

Nire….would this work?

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RA

I just can’t see a team with a mid-level All star as their leader making any real noise in the playoffs.

Offensively & Defensively the Hawks are inferior to Bos, Cle, & Orl. However if JSmoove developes into a 22ppg, 11reb, 5ast & 2bpg per game player we will have a legit budding superstar to run with JJ.

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Vince Carter is no where near Dominique. And look how long it took him tho get in.

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50 mil for Varejo and Bargnani. What recession? My goodness, what in the heck will Marvin ask for…

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tb,

If Bibby gets hurt, we would be forced to play Teague major minutes (I dont know if he is ready). If Bibby gets hurt, we have 96 minutes in the backcourt to share between JJ, Crawford, and Teague. Do we really want to play JJ 35 minutes, Crawford 35 minutes, and Teague 26 minutes? I dont think so.

Again, my point is we need a 3rd guard to protect ourselves against injury (not to take away from Teague’s minutes).

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Amar’e career avg 21 ppg 8.9 rebounds 54.1 fg awesome.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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Obrien, I’m shocked you think we still need another backcourt player. But whatever.

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I think Toronto got much better with the acquisition of Reggie Evans and Hedo. They were ranked 21st on team defense and 16th on team offense. Evans will raise their defensive ranking and Hedo will raise the offensive ranking. Assuming Bosh stays put, their will likely make the playoff perhaps for the 6th to 5th seed.

Detroit got better offensively by adding Gordon and Charlie V. They were already a 7th seed playoff team. They could challenge us for the 4th seed.

While these teams addressed specific needs with their acquisition, the Hawks only acquisition in Crawford (so far) seem to be based on opportunity instead of filling specific needs. Case in point; the acquisition of Crawford, though it is electrifying, may address some offense needs but how much is debatable. I say that because assuming Flip is not resigned, you would think Crawford scoring average of 19.7 PPG vs. Flip average of 12.2 PPG would be an upgrade. But looking closer, is it really? Crawford 19.7 PPG is based on 38 MPG which equals .5 points per minutes. Flip 12.2 PPG is based on 24.4 PPG which also equals .5 points per minutes as well. So, the impact of Crawford and Flip is exactly the same given the same minutes of playing time. Based on these stat numbers, by replacing Crawford with Flip would not yield any significant upgrade. However, if you add Crawford with Flip then we would enhance our overall scoring output and offense consistencies. The Hawks were already ranked 19th in team offense. So we could have a higher offensive ranking with both based on these stat numbers. However, the biggest need for the Hawks is team defense. We were ranked 23rd out 30, very close to the bottom. Though Woody loves to preach team defense, so far, it hasn’t translated. Our tweener frontline and Bibby defense reliability may have something to do with that. Adding Crawford may help with the Bibby part but the tweener frontline issues have not addressed so far.

So while we are excited about Sund’s handling of our FA so far, we still have much work to do to address our needs.

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Except of scoring, AHorford outperformed AStaudemire in almost every other category. Why trade away valuable young assets to take the risk of bringing in a injury prone AStaudemire, who’ll give us less of what we need most, rebounding and DEF. We also run the risk of him being a flop since he’s only functioned within a one of a kind system and played with one of the most dynamic PG’s in NBA history.

What makes anyone think he’ll be as effective playing with a PG like Bibby, who’s the complete opposite of SNash. Didn’t he have issues when former Suns HC TPorter tried to get him to play DEF and function more in a HC OFF? Look at how the Suns regressed after acquiring Shaq. Didn’t they make the false assumption he would make them a better team than they were with SMarion?

If you love watching Amare Staudemire play that much, get NBA League Pass and watch him as much as you want, because he’s not coming here anytime soon.

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How bout the hawks trying to get david lee as a restricted free agent from the knicks… 16 points and 11 boards would look good next to al horford… changing the hakws into a bigger team

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If we can’t sign Gortat or trade Marvin for Tyson Chandler and if Camby is too frail, then I say look into signing unrestricted free agent Rasho Nestorivic of the Pacers as Hawks should be able to get him inexpensively to play center along with ZaZa—RN is 7′ and wide at 255 lbs and has some offensive skills.

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AMARE- hes not coming to the hawks because we dont have anyone to offer for him.
JMITH- hes not going anywhere, he had his best year FG% wise and will only improve
JJ- dont even mention him in trades and if your brave enough to ill tell you now that he was one of the top 10 shooting gards in the NBA last year despite all the criticism, double and triple teams. if u have the guts to mention a trade with him in the mix then hope u find the one of 9 people that would be an upgrade to him, otherwise your scenario is downgrading our SG and the rotation..
MARVIN WILLIAMS- he is priority number one but theres a good chance he wont return.the hawks actually won a better percentage of games with moe evans in the starting mix. and thats probably whats making his resigning such a tough ordeal the question is are the hawks really that impressed with his play being a top 10 draft pick?.
HORFORD-despite all the get a true center crap horford has improved his game and almost if not does average more rebounds than Amare. our trigger happy backcourt gives horford time to develop and hes coming along just fine. horfords first two years in the NBA are very similar to amares, despite being hurt last year. amares acquisition is basically trading away potential for age besides AMARE will want his shots at the same time will Joe Johnson so that’s a blow up waiting to happen especially with jamal crawford on the team.

i hope they sign marvin but at the same time the hawks played better without him as a starter win% wise. if he doesn’t come back and we have to start mo Evans, it will all be good but it should be a priority to upgrade the bench behind Evans if we do not sign a new starter.

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The Real Truth is:

Detroit has two new starters, neither of which play any defense and “No Head coach”. Can’t see them challenging for the 4th spot. They will be lucky to make the playoffs. Colangelo will never learn that the NBA is a “MAN’s” game and you win with defense.

That EURO/PHX model looks good but won’t get you very far.

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Cavs got better with addition of O’Neal – if he stays healthy. Celts got better with “Sheed. Magic got a little better with addition of an older Vince, but losing Turk. We got much better with the addition of Crawford and our young guys getting another year of experience. Don’t think the Heat has gotten any better really. So of the top 5 in the East, we have improved the most.

Marvin’s back – how bad is it, and does it recur? Maybe we are smarter letting him move on, or sign/trade him for David Lee, and then let Chilz take his spot on the roster.

As far as Flip goes, I would sign him for 2 years, let he and Bibby hold down PG and let Teague develop. In his 3rd year he would be ready for prime time, and by year 5, one of the best. Thats my take.

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RA, Thank you for summing up what is the key factor in everything we are talking about the hawks and there moves this summer. And that is if Woodson can manage these pieces. I want even go back on Bradley’s blog because he is drinking too much of the Woodson Kool Aid. And while there is an occasional idiot that agrees with him it was more than I could stomach.
Thanks for making the most sense of the direction of the hawks and why it might not work.

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Ken, your post @ 11:58 definitely shows you are a voice of reason. Chemistry is a key intangible that many fail to consider when assembling a team. I reminded several a while back of the Hawks in the 80’s acquiring Moses Malone and Reggie Theus with hopes of making the NBA finals and realizing there was not enough ‘ball’ for everyone on the team.

We need a 2nd big man off the bench but an probably only pay between 1.5 – 2.5 million for that position. When you consider that player may get token minutes along with several DNP-CDs, it does not make sense to spend all of your MLE on that.

Once we sign Marvin (I do expect that to happen), we’ll have our first 9 locked up (Bibby, JJ, Marvin, JSmith, Horford, Crawford, Zaza, Evan, & Teague). When you consider RandMo is under contract, that leave two open positions, one for that 2nd big man off the bench (perhaps Solo unless RandMo decides to show up) and the 5th guard (maybe Mario). It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

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HEy Sekou,

I know nothing can be done with chillz or Anderson unless they break their Euro contract by July 15th. If that should happen, you think it’d be a possibility to trade Chillz in a S&T to Portland for Channing Frye?
Or to LA for Lamar Odom? With Frye I know Portland did not tender him so do they have nothing to do with it? and Odom would have to agree to a big paycut (on top of choosing us vs. defending champs), bit is it possible?

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And I see KevinA is still trying to trade Crawford.

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Yea, the Cavs and Danny Ferry blew that up, Verajo for THAT much money?? Kurt Rambis has to be thinking he just played at the wrong time, same player as verejo, never made anything like that kind of money!! hahahahhahaha.
Sign Wilcox!!! Trade the rights of Childress, I don’t care to ever see him back in a hawks uniform. Not sure if anybody other than greece wants him though. Sorry, In my opinion Childress isn’t very good, I know that upsets a few on this blog.

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I would love to see the Hawks solidify their frontcourt depth. What are the chances of pursuing Glen Davis or Channing Frye?

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Tribe I feel u dude ….. If we could get Camby and Thornton for Marvin and Chillz rights that would be the move to make. The man torched us last year and Camby could b solid for another 2 years.

Since Chillz doesnt like us any more the trade would basicly be Marvin for AL…… Nuff said

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Anybody know anything about the other guy we got in the draft?

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I wonder will the Hawks will officially announce the signings of Bibby and Zaza? In this town, I get nervous when the ink doesn’t touch the paper.

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“the Hawks have some guys that COULD become superstar talents next year”

Did you seriously just say Horford and Marvin could become superstar talents next year? If they were 1/3 as good as Wade, Kobe, LeBron (superstars) I’d jizz my pants. Don’t use strong words you don’t understand.

Let me explain the BYC principle: You cannot SNT a restricted free agent (such as off a rookie contract) alone for someone who makes TWICE AS MUCH MONEY as the player did the previous year. So stop with the Chandler (overrated, overpaid, injury-prone stiff) and Camby (guy is like 62) talks

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We need TALL 6″9-7″1 BANGERS who are PHYSICAL and will CHALLENGE and FOUL opposing players hard (like ZAZA).

We DON’T need players like Lamar Odom on this team.

Our SOLE objectives should be:
1) improving Horford and Smoove’s post games
2) adding BANGERS like CHRIS WILCOX
3) NO MORE TWEENER FORWARDS WHO WONT GET MINUTES

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jhan, the talent difference between Crawford and Battie isn’t even close… Crawford wins that contest with one eye closed. But it may come down to something like this, would you rather have a combo of Crawford & Solo or Battie & Flip? And I think that I would take the latter combo (although it is a close call). Like I said the other day, I like that Flip attacked the basket when we would get drunk with jumpers. And I don’t think Crawford diversifies our offense, he just gives us more of the same.

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ATL REALLY WANTS THE HAWKS TO WIN!! If that’s the case we should do what the powers of the NBA have done….BUILD THROUGH THE DRAFT not FREE AGENCY!! Old Billy Knight didn’t do a terrible job except for 2 moves, skipping C. Paul & D. Williams for Marvin and drafting Shelden. Marvin is a legit 3 for any team and has potential so we need to swallow his No.2 pick status and KEEP HIM!

Old Billy did atone for Shelden by trading for Bibby! All that being said, the HAWKS are very close. STICK with the players we have. Re-sign Marvin and Flip then bring in Wilcox and/or Bass! WOW, now we got a squad. Very Flexible!! Can roll small or big with the ability of Crawford and JJ playing the 1,2, or 3 and by adding rebounding and defense all across the frontline.

All Woody has to do is have everyone buy into their roles. Easier said than done.

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Sony– what?!?! Josh Smith for Raja Bell and Boris Diaw?! are you trying to put us back at 2003? Man, you should not be allowed on the message board anymore with that kind of nonsense.

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hey Sekou, whats the latest on Flip Murray?

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I wanna know how everyone judges Marvin Williams?

- Do judge him for what he has/hasn’t done?

- Do you compare him to what Chris Paul has done?

- Do you put him up against what a #2 selection should be?

Point i’m trying to make is just accept the guy for who he is. He puts up good numbers and fits in well on both sides of the ball for what this team tries to do. He’s worked hard to make himself better, continues to do so and he never complains. Now if Josh Smith would..?

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Ken- you judge him for what he has done and against other small forwards in the league.

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Cajun Storm- I like your overall view of the Hawks, but the powers in the NBA did not develop their talent through the draft. Only Lebron, Kobe and Dwight were draft day pick ups. the rest of the teams are all free agents and trades for the most part. Yes, Boston did draft Paul Pierce in like 1989, but really they have all gotten there through trades and free agency. Otherwise, why would LA let Ariza go and sign Artest?

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That is a good thing right?

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vc is a surefire hof’er? what am i missing? the guy is an unbelievable talent who never had the killer instinct. the guy is kobe without the fire/leadership and all that equals is a selfish team killer. a guy that has all that ability shouldn’t sit five feet outside the 3 pt line hoisting up 3’s all night. get dirty and drive it. every time i see him drive it he either gets fouled or he makes a really nice, acrobatic shot. so what does that tell me when he never gets to the line? no heart.

aj: never looked at from that perspective but your right. crawford is basically just another shooter. at least flip did take the initiative and broke down defenses from time to time when the o would get stagnant… (which was like every 2 minutes but i digress) not so sure on solo though he’s still young and he did make significant improvements this past year or at least when woody found some time for him. i don’t think he’s close to reaching his ceiling.

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All of this Chills and Anderson talk is nothing more than speculation. If they don’t opt out then they do not matter. The only real value is Chills in a trade but any team trying to acquire him would know the hawks would match the contract so the hawks would be unlikely to get that much in return but something is better than nothing I guess. Bass or Wilcox sound great but are the Hawks going to use their midlevel for them? Sekou is that the only way that happens? Plus Bass can get the most money from Dallas and Cuban just keeps spending so I doubt that will happen. However trading Chills, signing Marvin and Wilcox would be huge for depth because the Hawks would actually be deeper. But in order for the depth to matter Woody must play it. For the record Chris Wilcox is an exponential intensity and defensive upgrade over solo which will show improvement. Sekou what do you make out of the Pacers and the race issue brought up in that column yesterday?

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Meidzo in Decatur

I like this idea but don’t think we could get that by trading Chillz. I say just keep Chillz and bring in a guy like Frye or Wilcox. Unless you are going to make a big splash and trade Horford for Thabeet or Marc Gasol and a protected first round pick…….. and still bring in Wilcox and/or Frye… and as far as getting another guard, there is not need. if one of our guards gets hurt during the season, then pick up someone off of waffers. But unless that happens I wouldn’t worry about that. We need big men we have enough back court players.

I say have J. Crawford, Bibby, Teague, J. Johnson is good depth. We have Horford, Smoove, ZaZa,and Morris, we can bring Marvin back for one year as well as Chillz for one year and at the end of this year decide which one we are going to make an offer too. with these ten I say add Frye, Wilcox or Gooden, Royal Ivy , Gardner, and Mario West or O. Hunter. that should be the hawks off season.

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Good Lord, what is that godawful smell?

Oh it’s that Stoudemire / Smith trade rumor again.

Damn, that thing is gettin’ STINKY!

Throw it in the trash and double bag it. Make sure to put the lid on tight, otherwise the raccoons will have it all over the backyard.

But one way or another, GET IT OUT OF HERE!

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Sund is doing a good job on the down low tip!!!!!

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Fa sho Daniel…good points. I guess I mixed a lil NFL blueprint with the NBA draft. I’m alsolooking at teams like San Antonio, LA, Portland and now ATL with having the base of the team built through the draft. Of course JJ and Bibby came through trades using draft picks. The Hawks are young and need to develop what we have some more.

Bake the Cake…THEN add the icing! The cake looks pretty tasty now lets add the icing and we’ll see what kind of party we’re celebrating.

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Sekou, what time tonight do the summer league games start at Adamsville? What’s the admission if any?

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RA, I so agree that Woodson only has a short period to prove he can do so. And I also agree that he has been unable to be flexible to this point and coach up to their strengths. My only concern is why are we waiting when we can get a new coach (Avery Johnson) who can coach these young guys before they become old guys. He has not done it yet so why would he do it now?
Again thanks for being a voice of reason. If I was on MB’s blog you could talk some sense to his lack of knowledge on this subject!

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RA, if after 20 games (a 4th of the season) the Hawks have something like a 12-8 record and several key players are not being properly utilized, do you fire Woody? Player utilization is about winning games not creating All-Stars or ESPN highlights for individual players. If Sund continues down the path of essentially reuniting the band, there isn’t much reason to expect anything less (or sadly, more) than another 45+ win season.

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Real talk G-Mack, please dont bring up CP3 I get sick to my stomach every time I hear his name or see him play just thinking of WHAT SHOULD BE!

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WOW,

One of my longtime nemesis honest “underscore” abe returns from the dead.
You know I have actually never been a huge Vince Carter fan and I don’t really know how we got on this back and forth about him being a Hall of Famer. So I went and checked his stats and WOW.

Sometimes we have certain opinions about this and that (I used to not like Larry Bird until I knew better) but if stats don’t lie, I don’t see how you can say that VC is not one of the greatest of all time. Some of his highlights:

The man has made the Allstar Game 8 of 11 seasons.
The man has a 23.5 ppg average over his entire career
The man has averaged, I said averaged 37.7 minutes per game over 11 seasons and played every single game(82) twice.
The man has started 770 of 777 games
The man once made “9″ 3’s in one game.

There are guys in the Hall of Fame with far lesser stats but VC not only has the stats but is one of the most entertaining players of all time and is as responsible as anybody for the current popularity of Basketball Worldwide.

VC=HOF

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Where does Marion fit in with the Mavs? Did they move Howard or something? If not, I dont understand the move. Dallas was already set at the 3 and the 4 spot.

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Hey Ando,

What’s the over/under on Mr. Kuester making it through the Allstar Break?

Challege for the 4th Spot. Please!!!!

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Daniel, I was suggesting that Woody and the Hawks should repeat with another successful season… how is that whining? Or would you consider 47 wins an unsuccessful year?

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samuel if you keep that up i can get a group of donations to send you to oralndo .. to stay.

take that sheeat out of here. i hope you arent on the magic train now, are you?

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Will Woody play Teague 4-6 minitues at the beginning of games and halfs like he did with Royeal Ivey?

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Does Woody send out coaches to make sure the starters are getting (550 per day) free throw practice?

Josh and ZaZa (550) 15′ – 18′ Set shots?

What about West. Seems to me this would be a good year to learn to shoot if he wants a job.

JJ – shoot, drive or pass – no more dribble.

Al and Josh, Work on footwork for blocking out.

Marvin – driving footwork, develope a floater.

Al – one more good post move.

Bibby – lose a few pounds and get quicker.

ZaZa – need a post move

Chills – your perfect – just get signed.

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Celtics will be lock-down with addition of ‘Sheed. Defense won it for them in ‘08. If they Grant Hill, an underrated defender, they’ll be even tougher. Their issue will be back-up point guard. Eddie House is a good shooter at times, but he’s not Rondo. I think Hudson’s going to be a player for them.

That being said, gotta think the Hawks, with Crawford coming on board, are really going to be tough. No doubling on JJ or he’ll kick it out. They needed another legit scorer, and he’s it no matter where’s been. Let’s hope Woody doesn’t bury Teague like he did Acie. Bibby should help with that.

Should be a great seaon next year!!

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Here we are right now:

PG-Bibby, Teague
SG-JJ, Crawford
SF-Evans
PF-Josh
C-Horford, Zaza, Morris

That’s 9 players We must sign 13. We need 4 more-1 combo guard, 1 small forward, 1 power forward, & 1 center.

Combo guard-Get Flip for the bi-annual or Chills
Small forward-Get Marvin or Chills
Power forward-Andersen would be cheap
Center-can’t afford a good one without making a trade.

Chills or Marvin have to be traded if we want to compete for the Finals! If Chills would stay with the Hawks, he can play many positions and could eliminate the need to sign Flip. That money could go to get a better BIG! Then we could look @ a difference maker(maybe a starter) instead of someone to back up Horford and Zaza! Crap, Morris can back up Horford and Zaza!

Keeping Chills(I know he has said he does not want to play here, but trading Marvin would make him a starter. Maybe he goes for that!)would allow us to get a starting center and allow Horford and Josh to play PF. Josh then could play a little at SF when needed.

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matt (atl)
John:Please answer!!!!!How does a childress for Bowen sign and trade make any sense for the Hawks? Bowen’s offense was never very good and considering he is about 100 years-old, he is barely more helpful than Bibby on defense.

John Hollinger
I left out the part about a protected first-round pick; that would be the Hawks’ incentive to participate. Bowen’s contract is only partially guaranteed and Hawks would waive him in this scenario.

I also like S/T to Cleveland for Expiring Contract & Hickson

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Why are so many of you so intent on trading Josh Smith?

Josh is young, improving his game every year, and is one of the most exciting players in the League. And as someone else pointed out, right now, the Hawks Defense is much better when Josh is on the Court than when he’s sitting on the bench.

I would agree with some of the other posters in that right now, what the Hawks need is another bruiser in the middle so that Horford has a chance to play some of his natural position, especially when Josh gets into foul trouble or needs a blow. This will keep an athletic guy on the Court and, hopefully, give the Hawks more options when they come up against the Dwight Howard’s of the world.

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Just checked out some stats of Hall of Famers. Bill Bradley averaged 12ppg, Joe Dumars averaged 16ppg, James Worthy 17ppg,Dave Debusschere averaged 16ppg, Drazen Petrovic played 4 seasons.

I know that scoring is not the only thing but there’s not way you justify putting guys like that in without considering a career 24ppg scorer. Other names that I would argue that VC is arguably better than are:
Alex English, Dan Issel, Adrian Dantly. Usually, each era (approx 10 years) has a group of 10-15 players chosen. I guess VC would fall into the era between 1999-2009. So of this era, who would be your 10-15 all time players to be chosen. Very interesting question.

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AJ. Don’t remind me. I think dude is gathering buggies at Walmart or something. Tremendous waste of talent. Dude was the only player I ever seen go man up with Jefferson on the blocks in Highschool. Maybe LB can scoop him up in Charlotte.

Dang!!, Jackie “The Iceman” Butler.

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Ken, to answer your question,

Big Ray hits this on the head. Everybody naturally has and will continue to judge this guy based on his draft position. I personally am guilty of this at times myself. However, I still feel he’s an asset to the team. It wouldn’t be easy replacing a 6′9 wingman who naturally fits into the 3 spot. He’s honestly one of the better facegaurd defenders on this roster, and has gotten better year in and year out. If the guy weren’t as injury prone, I would say signing him long-term would be a no-brainer. I would still consider signing him long term seeing how the salary cap will shrink as of next year – and if teams miss out on getting one of the biggie FA’s – a guy like Marvin could end up on many team’s radars.

Personally, the man brings versatility to the Hawks. He poses mismatches, and has the ability to take some pressure off of JJ. Wouldn’t mind seeing the Hawks throw JJ, Crawford, and Marvin out on the floor occasionally. I think that backcourt has the potential to pose some major problems for defenses.

But then again, what do i know…

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Y’all Calm Down. Rick knows whats up. I’ll be back. I’mma let tha Rook get his time, but when the Hawks get into trouble i’ll be there for the rescue. Holla.

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Talked to some Golden State fans and they let me know that Crawford is extra-streaky son. We all know Bibby and Joe go cold from time to time too. Imma have to bail these cats out on the rugular next season ya digg. Done Deal.

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WCJ,

Why doesn’t trading two players who never got off the bench in exchange for Jamal Crawford count?

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ldawg121,

You obviously are new, because people on this blog have already explained the reasons why that’s nearly impossible at least twice on every blog for the past few weeks. I figure it’s a more efficient use of everyone else’s time if you go back and search for the term “BYC” in prior posts on this blog rather than making one of us have to right it all out again.

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*write it out. Here’s the one sentence reason: Such a trade would violate about a half-dozen NBA salary cap rules.

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The Varejao deal is a real head-scratcher… he’s really just a taller and more athletic Zaza. I just hope this doesn’t affect Marvin’s contract demands.

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Poop, don’t worry about it son. Imma Make Sideshow Bob my next poster and make the Cavs rescind his contract. Done Deal. Word.

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So many questions so little time. Here’s the thing. I don’t when to pull the plug on Woodson, but I do know that it probably shouldn’t be after the season that he led the team to its best showing in a decade. I’m not an apologiat for Woody. Believe me, but at the same time every year he’s been with the team, the team’s improved, as has he as a coach. Now Anthony Johnson is a fine coach, but would he mesh with this team? That’s a question I can’t answer. The one thing that I do know is that given past performance, there’s a decent chance that with an improved roster Woodson will better last year’s performance, and if he doesn’t, I think Sund is a guy who knows when to pull the plug.

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Wabe,

“He’s honestly one of the better facegaurd defenders on this roster, and has gotten better year in and year out.”

“Personally, the man brings versatility to the Hawks. He poses mismatches, and has the ability to take some pressure off of JJ.”

Again Wabe you are entitled to your opinion, but those statements are just not true. He is not one of our better defenders. Actually Joe, probably is, but we take him off of the best guys so that he does not draw fouls. Any time Lebron, Pierce, Granger…. or any player like that gets hot Woody always switches Joe to defned them, not Marvin. He probably is one of our least versitile players. He can only play or defend the 3. He has no post up game, so he is never a mismatch. I can’t explain how many times he has a smaller defender on him in the post, and can not take advantage of it. He has no handles, so he can’t play like Turk. Every other starter on the team with the exception of Bibby, can play more than on position offensively and defensively. Chills is a much better and versitile player. He does not shoot as well as Marvin, but is a much better finisher, and is better than him in almost every other statistic. Sorry I could not let that slide. I would much rather have Chills than Marvin.

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CJ,

I read that too. I really wish we wouldn’t be so quick to sell ATL short on acquiring big name guys. JJ and Bibby set the trend on comming to the “A” and guys are warming up to this city. Let’s go for it.

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By the way the money Varejo got was crazy to me he rebounds a little better than Zaza but they are the same player so Sund deserves a hand …. For those of you who want to trade a 23/24 yr old who averages at least 16ppg, 7+rpgs, 2+ blks and 1.5 stls for anyone other than Amare or Bosh get real….Looks like for a you all who wanted the non shooting older Andre Miller, Portland doesn’t want him anymore as they seem to be in talks with Utah and Chi for big 3 team deal… Boozer to Chi, Tyrus Thomas to Utah and Kirk Hinrich to Portland (probably more to be worked out with money)….AI in Memphis I don’t like but in Miami it could work think about there offense iso Wade or post O’Neal (when healthy)….Everyone thinks Orl got better but they lost Hedo and yes VC can still play but where is there bench now without Lee, Gorat, Battie, Alston…And who will be rebounding for Det now that McDyess and Sheed are gone (Kwame???)…. The signing of Anthony Parker to Clev means one of 2 things Sasha Pavolic or Wally is gone…. Will they continue to play big Z that much as a backup?….Denver is quickly becoming a distant 3rd team behind LA and SA (Danthay Jones leaving is huge, he was their defensive stopper and he started so JR Smith could come off the bench)

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Understood Sekou but he may want to play there but what if its just not possible…. Hawks should try is all I’m saying…What bigs are we truly interested in and give me the real deal on DAnderson

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HEY CLYDE,
**Let’s MAKE A DEAL!**

If you got $5 in your pocket and it’s tied-up in a black nylon dress sock?

I’ll hand you “Woody’s BIG-BROWN head” On a SILVER-PLATTER! LMAO!

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CJ, You late kid. Sasaha was traded away in the Shaq deal. Get ya rank up son. Read Books. Get Facts. Word.

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niremetal, Why doesn’t trading two players who never got off the bench in exchange for Jamal Crawford count?

I loved the trade. I have posted several times that Sund did great. How ever that does not mean getting rid of Crawford in exchange for Chill and Flip or Chill and Gooden or Gooden and Bosh etc. There are just better fits for our needs. I am just looking at skill vrs.salary.

fud21, during the regular season I along with others often lamented about the volume of shots from the back court and it seemed like when we played our best ball when we got the ball to the low post more often. If JJ, Bibby, Flip and Crawford shot at the same shooting% as Marvin/Chills/ZaZa/ Josh and Solo, I would not have a problem. Now, who shot the lowest FG% of the front court last year – Crawford. High volume/low %. My question is, why are you so excited anout this guy.

Look Crawford might be great for the team. I am a team man. I hope he drives a lot and finishes, I hope he drives and kicks. I hope he shoots a decent %. Go look at his numbers, .404 FG%. That is not winning basketball.

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They also call me: Mr.Get Buckets, Assasin, Cold Blooded, and the Switch…

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jhan, it feels like we’re back to a guard-oriented offense with 4 guys who tend to shoot first and second and pass third. Woody could ask those guys to change their stripes but has that ever really proven successful? I’m pretty sure Terry Porter doesn’t think so. Maybe if our front-court youngsters remain healthy, they will have a chance to demonstrate consistent offensive skills. But, seriously, what are the chances that any of them will be more proficient offensively than Joe, Bibby or Crawford? I would never advocate for giving player C who is a C+ offensive player more shot attempts than player D who is a B+ offensive player. That hurts the team for the benefit of the player. Ultimately, it feels like there’s a low ceiling on our front-court green house.

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Harry, Fly tha Chicken Coop. Get outta town with that nonsense. Tha #1 thugsassin in the NBA is gonna take the Hawks to the next level. Quit sheddin yo feathers over there.

55-27 next season you know what i’m sayin’. Mark it down. Done Deal.

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Rod, would you honestly put JJ, our greatest offensive threat, on opposing SF’s?

One, ideally, he wouldn’t be your best matchup size wise. IMO, he would instantly be at a disadvantage at 6′6. I don’t think JJ could go the entire game gaurding opposing SF’s – maybe here and there – but not the entire game.

Two, why make the man focus on the defensive end gaurding some of the opposing teams better athletes? Wouldn’t that limit him on the offensive end? Just imagine him running Iso-Joe’s and at the same time, him having to gaurd the Lebron’s of the league.

I’m not arguing Marvin is a better defender than JJ, I simply said Marvin’s one of the BETTER (not best) face gaurd defenders on the team. I could understand if you didn’t see it the way I see it, but I think the Hawks have a better chance with Marvin gaurding opposing 3’s than either JJ or Smoove – which are the likely people who would end up taking up this responsibility with the absence of Marvin.

And Rod, again, I know you’re not the biggest Marvin fan, and don’t think I’m putting him on a pedestal, but find the Hawks a 6′8/6′9 replacement that can play on the wing. Till then, this man is what we’ve got to bank on.

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That dude who dunked on LeBrick the other night is my cousin. It runs in tha family son. My Grandmama gotta 80inch vertical. Real Talk.

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It looks like Portland is about to get my guy, Hinrich and Chicago may land Boozer.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4317515

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Y’all Talkin bout’ THIS scrub???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGowWqPl8qE

I still got that fools lunch money from way back. He ain’t bout nuthin’.

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I told Y’all. I go hard. Nobody does it better. Holla@ ya boi.

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Hey imma get one of dem T-Shirts. It’s so true. I really did. Not just him, They whole squad. Done Deal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGQlvYNFTwg

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CJ, It’s Ariose fool Don’t judge a book by it’s cover. I question what I wanna.

But it’s not about me….Back to flip.

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Like I was sayin’, Imma have Rick order tha whole squad them T-Shirts next season. We gon wear em’ when we play tha Cavs. Me, J-Smoove, Horford, and Gerald Green gon tear it up! Done Deal.

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Understood Flip… Question other than playing for an old coach and maybe money (didn’t he make enough with that huge contract in Orl..lol)why would Grant Hill sign with Knicks instead of Boston or for that matter Phx (family is there)

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Y’all Make sire to peep my mixes. Holla.

But first, I got some new exclusive footage 4 y’all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_q5o9qg-J0

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Back to Me: Check it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2P3HaRWf0U&feature=fvw

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See, I tore it up wit tha old squads but they couldn’t see straight. they didn’t think ya boi was an integral part of their success.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3G9hWlvcD8

Well look at those chump squads now. I rosted em’ all for 20+ since I left, and they ain’t done nuthin’ since. Seattle(OKC), Indy, or Detroit. They all loosers now. Cleveland is the exception, and I was only there for about two months anyway so that doesn’t really count…

But I KNOW the Hawks aren’t that stupid. My Homie Rick knows how much of a vaulable/irreplaceble commodity I am. He appreciates my game. He knows that i’ve aided in the team’s success. Ain’t that right Rick? Holla@ Me.

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I’ll Talk to y’all lil Homies later. Back to my fan Mail.

F(dot) Murray

Out.

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Knew that would get a rise out of you Samuel. You’re one of a kind man.

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One More thing.

They need to make a shirt called: “I Broke LeBrons Ankles” I’d rock dat to sleep. Furreal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMZZxAB6SKw

See, Done deal.

I crosssed his @$$ up in the 09′ playoffs too. As soon as I get the ootage ima let y’all peep tha vid…..Matter of fact, I crossed his butt durin’ the 09′ reg season a few time too. Y’all be on tha lookout for more footage. I can’t beleive he confiscated that tape. He should be banned from basketball. What a disgrace.

Don’t worry tho I’ll let ou see me work his over-inflated egotistical azz over a few times. I got tha homies workin’ of tha footage as we speak.

F(dot) Murray. Holla@ ya Boi Rick!

Oh yea, and my Philles started out real rough but they gon bounce back and win tha World Series this year. Repeat. Done Deal.

Holla.

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Anakin, I would love to see the back court pass the ball so we could find out. If JJ, Crawford, Flip and Bibby combined would pass the ball to Josh, Al, ZaZa, Marvin and Chills. About 600 possessions a year I believe would make a big difference. We would find out. That equals about 7 possessions a game.

At the beginning of last year I did not have this opinion. The organic growth of Marvin,Josh, Al and ZaZa made passing much more effective. Bibby to his credit got the ball to them more frequently.

This year these kids have matured one more year. This is the year for a more balanced attack.

This is the reasoning for a Crawford for Chills/Flip kinda deal. At this point why mess with the chemistry.

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Astro Joe,

About this: “Maybe if our front-court youngsters remain healthy, they will have a chance to demonstrate consistent offensive skills. But, seriously, what are the chances that any of them will be more proficient offensively than Joe, Bibby or Crawford?”

And just exactly how would one measure that comparable proficiency?

They (Smith, Horford and Williams) already shoot a MUCH higher percentage than the backcourt.

Do you know a better measure of offensive proficiency?

Just askin’………

Seems like we just need to feed the youngun’s a bit more. But I’ll say this (hey you were wanting me to step out and venture something):

if we are as heavily tilted toward the backcourt as last year, we WILL have chemistry problems, IMHO. Time will certainly tell.

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Luxury tax issue if we match Chillz:

If we match Chillz and go over the luxury threshold, and then turn around and trade him to a team with salary cap room/exception for draft pick, do we have to pay luxury tax? He is a great trade asset at MLE salary.

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Rod,

I’ve given up on you, dude. Nice try, though.

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Hawks need to spend their Flip money to produce 6 productive physical fouls to a center. Bye Flip. Wish you had chosen us over Indiana/Detroit in 07-08.

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KevinA, I’m not sure that it is that simple, or Biedrins would have gotten more shot attempts than Crawford, right?

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jerrywest, Already talked to my main man Rick. I’m home. Done Deal. Stop cryin. I’m here to win for you baby!

Flip “Goon-Squad” Murray + Mo Evans= FlipMo Squad

Theres no FlipMo without Flip. Y’all think about that.

Holla.

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nire, When Salim gives me a reason to break out the old hanle, YOU KNOW it’s goin’ down heheheh!

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Why is Amare so attractive? Hmmmm he shoots at a .550 over the past couple of years. More efficient than anyone on our team. Averages 22-25 pts per game. Of course he had Nash to get him the ball.
With Bibby passing Josh shot .492 averaged 16 pts per game and about 1 less rebound. Josh is young while Amare is older. If Josh improves his free throws a bit and chooses not to shoot a few three pointers he could close that gap. Amare is prob worth the money. While Josh should be considered as a bargain considering his upside, considering the difference in money.

Now Crawford is close to the money Josh makes. Shoots like .404, no defense and few rebounds. I think Crawford would be a good pickup for 5 million coming off the bench. I would rather have Flip for 3 million. Chills is worth 6 mil and is young and has upside. Lets get it done.

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is the hawks management underestimating David Andersen?

that’s a nice piece to have right there. legit size – 6′11″, and legit skills (polished offensive arsenal for a big man, with a nice shooting touch and percentages) with legit big game experience – Euro championships (albeit non-NBA experience). the guy is also a pretty decent rebounder especially on the offensive glass – don’t let the stats fool you, think Marc Gasol, Luis Scola or Oberto (Oberto doesn’t always snags the rebound but he almost always snags the ball or puts a hand on it so another teamate is able to get the ball). those guys didn’t have monster reboundingaverages in Europe but don’t tell me they can’t rebound or fight for the ball.

come on Mr. Sund make the move on David already will ya. if you want another big man, David Andersen is it and he’s just yours for the taking. it’s in your face, open your eyes, Mr. Sund.

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I didn’t name any names but if the shoe fits……………….

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We cannot wait until half of the eastern teams have All-Star teams. WE NEED A CENTER!
Trade JJ to Indiana for Hibbert and Dunleavy.

PG Bibby, Teague
SG Crawford, Dunleavy
SF Smith, Williams
PF Horford, Andersson
C Hibbert, Pachulia

We have Bibby, Crawford, Dunleavy who can earn their own shots. We are great on defense and rebounds, and blocks.

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Nire,

allow me this time…….. Ding!

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Hey Sekou,

Do the hawks have any interest in signing Garret Siler the Center from Agusta State?

I thought we were going to draft him but we went with a SG i never heard of instead.

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Sautee,

Definitely no argument there – and thanks for getting my back on that one! I’m still waiting for new batteries on my alarm

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MannyT, how dare you forget the Speedy era. What’s wrong, not enough salt on your popcorn tonight?

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Sautee, since I like to offer up unsolicited opinions, I’m going with the Josh idea. We get someone who despised Woody in Diaw and yet another backcourt player (and an old one). I think that one wins the prize. At least we’re getting a center for Joe.

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Hahahahahahaha!

Just heard that the dude that dunked on LeBron (Jordan Crawford) is Jamaal Crawford’s brother…

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It’s all good Mark, I’ll send u some free tickets sometime, I knoe you’re a fan. Done Deal.

Check tha tapes. It’s not “junk” it’s factual eveidence. Via Video. I’m the real Deal.

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AJ–you got me as I did forget Claxton. My popcorn quotient always goes down in the summer.

As for your WLWT (We LOVE Woody Team)

Craig Claxton & Tony Delk at guards (backed up by Anthony Johnson, Salim Stoudamire & AC Law)
Forwards Boris Diaw & Shelden Williams (backed up by Chills?)
Center RandMo? (backed up by Solomon Jones?)

Once again a guard heavy rotation

BWAF

…with BK as the GM of course.

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MannyT,

Yeah, saw that article when it came out. Lewis deserves a Pulitzer for that one. It provides a source for things that I’ve long thought about basketball statistics. My favorite line from it is still:

For most of its history basketball has measured not so much what is important as what is easy to measure — points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocked shots — and these measurements have warped perceptions of the game.

What that article doesn’t directly talk about is “the Battier effect.” There is one stat that matters in basketball – wins. And Battier seems to bring those to his team:

Grizzlies 2003-2004: 50-32
Grizzlies 2004-2005: 45-37
Grizzlies 2005-2006: 49-33
[Battier leaves]
Grizzlies 2006-2007: 22-60

Rockets 2005-2006: 34-48
[Battier arrives]
Rockets 2006-2007: 52-30

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Wabe, I heard that the kid is Jamal’s bro this AM on ESPN First Take. I think he has been on a few different TV shows today.

Did a post on it, but it got sucked into awaiting moderation. Silly me for putting 2 links in that post. TSA must moderate this blog…2 links or more than 4 oz of luquid and you are out

Sekou, you need to ask Jamal why his little bro went to IU instead of UM initially. Now at Xavier thanks to Kelvin Sampson’s fiasco. Imagine how much trouble he’d get into with Twitter!

BWAF

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niremetal–the Battier article was a good read. The more impressive info was in The Wages of Wins back in 2007. Hits on exactly what you mentioned–wins.
http://dberri.wordpress.com/2007/11/01/what-the-box-score-data-says-about-shane-battier/

Now if all the Judas for Jesus traders can come up with a way for us to get Battier, I’ll stop talking about getting Marvin back.

BWAF

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I think Sund should get on the phone with Ryan Hollins and his agent. After today trade, Mavs pickup another center from the Raps (Nathan Jawai,6-10 280) to go along with Erick Dampier and possibly Gotrat/Brandon Bass. I think we could get Hollins with at a bargain price. 7ft very atheletic that’s a decent defense player. Get it done Sund…

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Thanks, doc.

AJ & Sautee get the blame, er, credit for that line of thought.

Also enjoyed your sprained ankle link this AM. Comments about it sucked into same post void that took out info about Jamal’s little brother as the LePosterizer. Hawks marketing people need to get to him before the first game against the Cavs. Put him in one of those time out commercials and bring him to the game to sit in the VIP area.

BWAF

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Is Jordan Crawford like a half-brother to Jamal? I can’t find any info on that.

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I wonder how many jerseys Battier sold last season?

MannyT, yeah, the all-Woody Team was top notch. Make sure that Herb Brown is an assistant coach on that squad.

Does Mad Maxx Beyond Thunderdome ever get old? Two men enter, one man leaves. And this one man leaves for the night.

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I worked that sissie LeBrick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slxMnJZAF8U&NR=1

Holla@ Me

F(dot)Murray

Out

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By the way, assuming that Marvin accepts the QO or signs for $8M, how close are we to the luxury tax (and assume Chill is back in Greece)? I’m just wondering if there is room for a $3M-$5M big man (MLE)?

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AJ, Theres always room lol. It’s the MLE, it allowy you to go over the cap for players whose rights you do not own.

I really don’t see us going into luxury tax, nor do we have too. We’ll be VERY CLOSE though.

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Sekou, were you there?
Bear with me for a second people, but i just got back from the pro-am summer league games tonight at Adamsville, and let me put some people on notice, Thaddeus Young is a Beast. I sat there in amazement at the quickness, Skillz, and overall “unstopability” of this guy just wishing there was some kind of way he could end up in a Hawks uni one day. I guarantee multiple All-Star appearances for him, wish Philly would take Marvin and Chillz for Thad and call it a day. Sorry, just a little wishful thinking on my part. By the way to all the Tech fans out there Ghani Lawal and Derrick Favors were also on Thad’s team, they look great together, expect big thing from GT basketball next year, or at least their frontcourt.

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Anakin,

We’re good. The luxury tax threshold is $69.2M. Right now, we’re at ~$53.5M. That gives us just under $16M to spend on Marvin, sign a big, and pick up a couple minimum salary players to fill out the roster.

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Flip you need a raise. Will you settle for 2 mil

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manny t i’ll probably repost that one about ankle sprains as it is a total misconception as to how benign they are and about everyone that pas sports has had one and had it treated inferiorly. problem down the road for sure. want necessarily speaking of the line but if it was the remark about bk to funny as a clincher.

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hey flip just another in the long line of another non foul call on lebron who takes you out with his body underneath and no friggin whistle. gosh i hate refs or stern’s rules that are unwritten.

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Anakin Joe,

I believe we have about 3.5M-4M left under the L. tax cap. Somewhere in that ball park.

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Hoops,

See my above post on the tax threshold

Here’s the Hoopshype page, which shows our current payroll ($42.8M) before the additions of Bibby and Zaza:
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/atlanta.htm

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KevinA, My main man Ariose had to send that last msg for me. What can I say, the fans needed me!!!

2mill=Done Deal!!

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niremetal,

You are right! Coach Brown did leave after the ‘05 season. I was thinking it was after “06.

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Rick Sund,

Give this guy 2 mil and a Hawk uniform. We still would have over 3 mil for David Andersen…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eNUsQtPDV8

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i guess it was a near 50 win year like near beer.

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Jamal, if you pass a little more, play a little defense and shoot at Flips and Marvins numbers i will humble down and and praise you and Sund. I am not against you buddy, just your history.

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KevinA,

Nice points, and Nire is right too. When the Hawks move the ball, they play well, and get results. More importantly, they engage their bigs. When the ball sticks with JJ, then the other team can read the Hawks like a hawk. (Pun intended) That’s when they swarm JJ, who still holds the ball. Rest of Hawks stand around, then… turnover, or a rushed shot with the clock winding down. Like Josh jacking up a 3.

The offence has to change. We don’t need another, ISO Crawford when he has the ball. Move the damn ball. Move the defence. Seams will appear in the defence when it’s moved. If you don’t have a shot or passing lane withing 3 seconds, then move that darned ball, man!

Lastly, no matter what the Hawks do this off season, every team member has to acquire a rebounding mindset. You cannot start the break until you secure the ball. You cannot gamble by not blocking out your man. I’m sick of teams getting multiple offensive rebounding opportunities against the Hawks. There is no way you can run if you cannot rebound the ball off YOUR OWN GLASS. Bottom line.

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Cuz,

I hate to keep bringing this up since you say it aint happening but do you know if “MY Boy Rick” has even reached out to Lamar Odom?

I can’t help but believe that if a true salesman knew the language he could at least get this man to consider the ATL. Here’s a little bit of how my pitch would go:

RS: Lamar, how are things going, my man?
LO: Ahhh man, it’s go’n, I guess. Nothing new, just negotiating a new deal out here.
RS: Congratulations on the Championship this year. I know you’ve been in the league a while and it must be sweet.
LO: Yea man, sweet.
RS: Hey Lamar, ever thought about playing for the Atlanta Hawks?
LO: Not really, nobody ever asked me.
RS: Well, i’m asking you now. I know the Lakers are offering you around 6mil per year. Lamar, we think you are one of the most talented and versitile players in the league and we are willing to give you 8million per year and guarantee you a starting position. What do you think about that?
LO: Fo Real?
RS: Fo real. We think your length and championship experience may be just what the Hawks need to take us to another level. As you know, the lakers just signed Artest so they really are looking for you to come off the bench again this season. We think that you took one for the team last year but you deserve to start? What you think.
LO: Let me see. 5.8 vs 8. Hum, I’ll take it.
RS: Good. Lamar, you married.
LO: Naahh
RS: Good, we’ll be sending Gabriel Union and Ciera over there to pick you up tomorrow.
LO: 4 sho.

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Blast, I am with you, well said.

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Sorry I’m late, guyz. Rod had me tied up in the shed in the back of his house again.

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I agree with Blue Hawk 100% and have been telling anyone who will listen, for what they Hawks need and the money involved, Andersen is the perfect guy. Skilled, shoots at a high clip and we might actually have a big men who Woody might run an occasional play for (since he can score from multiple situations). He would give the second unit a huge boost.

For all those knocking his defense, do you really expect to get a guy who will be in your second unit to be able to play both great offense and defense, it ain’t really gonna happen otherwise the dude would’ve been in a Hawks uniform when they drafted him, and he would cost more. Hey, even starters in the NBA can’t play great offense and defense, usually they are great at one and not the other, except the elite players, so stop knocking him for what he supposedly can’t do and jump on his bandwagon for what he’ll bring to the table.

If Sund don’t make this move, it’ll be one mistake on an otherwise great start to free agency.

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Smoove, come on now. One on one? You know I led the team in steals right? You know you’re not the best dribbler on the team right…..just making sure you knew hehehe.

You can’t jam on me if I move out of the way….anyhoo…

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Sekou – Will you please let these individuals know that the Hawks are not going to trade there young core, the Hawks are a young team that just made it to the 2nd RD of the NBA playoffs.

Core right now:
Josh Smith (24yrs),Marvin Williams (23yrs),Al Horford (23yrs),Zaza Pachulia (25yrs),Joe Johnson (28yrs),Jeff Teague (21yrs)

The oldest players on the team are Evans and Biddy both are 31 yrs old. The next move for the Hawks is locking up Marvin. Next and maybe a key to the Hawks off season is what to do with Childress. I love Chills game, but I believe he is a sign and trade possibility because I don’t this he is coming back. David Anderson is an option also. Now if Childress and Anderson choose to opt out by July 15 then my feeling is the Hawks will sign David Anderson adding scoring big inside and out. I would prefer we get cap relief for Childress and maybe use his salary to add a big like a Chris Wilcox (27yrs).

The Hawks roster

PG – Mike Bibby
SG – Joe Johnson
SF – Marvin Williams
PF – Josh Smith
C – Al Horford

Bench:

Jamal Crawford
Zaza Pachulia
Maurice Evans
David Anderson
Chris Wilcox
Randolph Morris
Mario West
Jeff Teague
Othello Hunter
Garret Siler

Sekou any comments, I really like ur insight.

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*Agree to a S&T

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Niremetal–I missed the part earlier about taking coaching into account. I think that challenge is there for all sports. In Woody’s case, you bring up an excellent point that he is less predictable when he is forced (due to injury) to do something different.

I remember when we played Portland out west and McMillan said in the post game interview that it took about a 1/2 of the first quarter to figure him out. Then they went on to run a 2nd player at JJ and crush us. Bibby didn’t play. When we played here, Marvin was out and we beat them by 18.

If only I had the time to quantify the WUF (Woody Undervaluation Factor)

Melvin–Hollins is a RFA. He might be available if you make him an offer. Moneybags.com would have to pay luxury tax on that deal. I don’t see that happening for Hollins.

Samuel–I think you need some Jedi Cap Tricks to pay LO 8 mil/yr…even if you renounced Marvin…and I think GU is spoken for within the NBA. Not that I keep up with that People magazine/paparazzi junk…think Miami flash #3.

BWAF

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My name is Chills, don’t blame me, I had to chek out the ball oversea, In two playoff games I scored 26 but the fire in the stands left me mixed. I am back in the states to make a deal, The Hawks give me the home appeal. Ya’ll didn’t see me improve my game, did I mention 26 in a posted in my name. I hear my main comp is Crawford at .404, An old man at 29, time to show the door. At 23 I shot .500+ no set up, no plan, Defended best shooters they liven in a can.Ok I am sorry I took a little cash, but them high school gyms ended up a bust. I am bk to reclaim what is mine, no .404 can beat the fro at crime.

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bring David Andersen in.

this will make Sund look like a genius

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nire: hahahah…
doc: how goes it? i’m done with the caps. no more caffeine drinks for me since i’m back in the motherland..heh
samuel: good to see you too… see you’re still writing gibberish. lamar odom? keep dreaming. point taken on vince he has piled up some impressive stats… and if there is one thing you and i both agree on is the love for shaqtus…

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There are a few points that people around here should realise:

1. We can only hope to sign players who want to come to Atlanta.

2. Practically no one wants to come to Atlanta and that includes Amare, Battier and whatever big names you throw around that already signed elsewhere (Varejao, ‘Dice, ‘Sheed, Turk, etc).

3. We should be thankful that JJ wanted (and wants) to play in Atlanta. None of the players above his level (which are only a handful) wants to play in Atlanta. We will never be able to sign the Kobes, Wades, Lebrons, Howards out there.

4. Hence, we should re-sign LONG TERM Marvin who has TREMENDOUS upside and to the least, will always attract trade talks due to his age and combination of technical and physical skills.

5. In order to break the “I don’t want to go to ATL” cycle and eventually trade some talented youth for another big time player we need to win 50+ games consistently 2 or 3 seasons in a row.

6. Then, if we do, we need to avoid making the mistake we made in the 80’s when we brought in Mo Malone and Reggie “locker room poison” Theus and completely destroyed our chemestry. Any future deals involving a trade of our young talent for a big time player can only happen if carefully done: Amare is a poison as well: his mother is in jail and that speaks a lot about his up bringing. He is damaged goods by default and all his physical (and technical) talent does not compensate his negative mental intangibles (he is lazy, a ME first character, …).

7. In relation to our system, we drafted Teague and traded for Crawford because in Woody’s “system” JJ is the PG and Bibby is the undersized SG. This happens to work well and badly at the same time since it creates bizarre match up problems for both sides which JJ usually turns in our favour (in the playoffs we saw the bad side of the system, but this was amplified due to all the injuries – JJ had a bad ankle all the way, Marvin was practically out of the equasion and Al extremely limited from a point onwards).

8. With Crawford, we have an excellent SG which can play a bit of PG with good size, speed and creativity (Flip does not have the size either) to combine with JJ in some circumstances and to spell him for nice stretches. The first guy in will always be Crawford for Bibby and then, after he plays with JJ for a few minutes, JJ will leave for Teague, who will play only 7-10 minutes under Woody.

9. The above makes Flip expendable, although for safety, we could signing him if we still have some cap room after negotiating all other players. Then if it is proven that we do not need him, we may eventually get a second round pick for him from a contender with injury problems later in the season.

10. We should keep Gardner and Otello and send them to the NBDL. Both have potential, at least equivalent to good second round picks. Gardner showed in garbage minutes against the Cavs that he has range, speed and is not afraid to take shots (yes, it was garbage, but it was national TV as well and he showed grit) and Otello has, in my opinion, the potential to turn into a Oakley type of player.

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The hawks need a big man at the center position.
The are to play morris randolph, make a trade with josh childress and David anderson, or sign a free agent center like Strodemire Swift who the hawks were trying to get two to three years ago.

Its time for randolph to play or let him go and split the minutes between randolph, sign swift who probably the best option in free agent right now.

The hawks can wait on signing marvin williams since there are no takers right now.
I they can trade him and get the like of caron bulter or the likes of him who can guard small forward and score. I’m sitll pist about the chris paul deron williams draft disaster.

hopfully the rookie can become a good or great point guard in this league if coach woodson plays him. woodson has the larry brown snydrome of not play rookies and or giving them a chance.

Coach woodson needs to run play and start letting the forward post up, otherwise they wont go any further..
The Game

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Sekou, any sense that the Barnagni (sp?) deal effects the Marvin negotiations at all? That’s $50 million over 5 years for a swingman not as good as Marvin. Of course, they are willing to overpay to try to convince Bosh to stay, but I have to think Marvin’s agent is going to use that in negotiations. I don’t think the Hawks should pay that much, but I hope it doesn’t slow things down.

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yeah honest live longer that way, wooried about you bro with all those rd bulls in one day, i mean in one hour. heh heh

just doesnt seem you have lost the edge. good for us.

where you been? or can a ninja reveal his most recent locations?

ariose you are a pretty clever guy when you dont have life/school to worry about. what is going to happen when you dont have summers? oh, i see, going for a phd in modern communication techniques. back in my day it was tech school for audio/visual. communication has gotten a bit more upscale hasnt it.

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Ariose,

What were you trying to tell us with your 12:29 post “Agree to a S&T”?

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samuel, mississippi?

ROFL

cant stop it.

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correction: it is mad, but it made my day.

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Sekou,
I think that the Hawks overpaid Bibby and gave him too long of a deal for his age. Marvin should be more of a priority, at age 23.We also must have another big man. Your thoughts ?

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Hoopshype says that David Anderson is now likely staying w/ FC Barcelona.

http://www.sport.es/default.asp?idpublicacio_PK=44&idioma=CAS&idnoticia_PK=628084&idseccio_PK=808

Anybody able to translate this from Spanish to English?

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Took a look at David Anderson on YouTube and he looks like a guy that can definitely play in the post and his jump shot looks pretty good. The clip I saw showed he could shoot a nice fade-away jump shot from 8-10ft on either side of the basket. I’ve seen JS shoot a few of those but only on smaller defenders, Anderson would be our best low post player if he came this year. He could come off the bench as a PF or play some center. From the click I saw though he looked a like another guy that can’t block shots. All in all he might be the best PF/C available and his price isn’t to high. I would definitely take him at this point, especially if Wilcox isn’t available.

GO HAWKS.

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Yea, it would have been nice to get Andresen, but I’m pretty sure that he’s going to stay over there. The big question with European players is always can they adjust to the pace of the NBA game. Maybe he could have, but we’ll just have to see that at a later time. In the here and now, Altanta needs some bruisers, at least two guys that serve no other purpose than to bang, defend, and rebound.

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Google translation of the David Andersen article:

The good news is close to formally confirmed to the Regal Barça: David Andersen continued. The Australian pivot, remember, has a contract until 2011 with the club Bluered but it contained a clause whereby if you receive a firm offer from the NBA can break the link to go to the American professional league.

Specifically to the Atlanta Hawks team with its rights and that chose him in the second round of the 2002 draft. That clause was already included in the contract of his career at Andersen in CSKA, but had never executed.

This season, however, it appeared that the player could try to experience his 29 years. And when it became known that the Hawks might need to strengthen their domestic game to the eventual launch of Zachar patchouli. But in recent days has drastically changed the landscape of knowing that after the Georgian-pivot being behind Al Horford in the internal rotation of the Hawks, had reached an agreement to renew for Atlanta for four seasons and a total of $ 19 million.

Apart from that this operation could take away quite protagonism minutes into the game and Andersen, we should take into account another aspect, the economic limit to pay the NBA (which has fallen by one million dollars) in the background. And it is also the renewal of patchouli, Atlanta has also closed the operation of the basic continuity of veteran Mike Bibby, which has meant an outlay of $ 19 million for three seasons. And the Hawks are committed to seeing what happens to Josh Childress this year that has evolved over Olympiacos and, as Andersen has an escape clause for the NBA, where his rights are for Atlanta, which also expires on 15th of this months. Therefore, the scope for economic franchise Georgia has been reduced to the time to offer a contract of guarantee Andersen.

Given these prospects, the option to test the experience of the NBA did not immediately seduces David Andersen.The Australian players did not want to occupy a marginal role, while the Hawks on the boat known to have been instrumental in rotations Xavi Pascual and his competition was critical to winning the league ACB. In economic terms, it could win in Atlanta would be more or less the same, or even a bit less than what they perceived to Barca. Therefore, and although still has room for a few days, his future next season, unless their rights were transferred to another franchise for him to bet very strong in the NBA, is at the Palau Blaugrana. Something that should be welcomed.

If Andersen’s future is linked, except surprises capitalized at Regal FC Barcelona, the opposite happens with Ersan Ilyasova. The wing-pivot Turkish is closer every day to enforce its terms, as Andersen has until 15 days – and return to the NBA Milwaukee Bucks, where the franchise in which he played and wait with open arms. And is that unlike what happened with Andersen and David Hawks, Milwaukee has always shown a great interest in recovering the Turkish international.We have continued to regularly this season and just finish the ACB league began talks with the player’s agent in addition to the mandatory offer of $ 1 million-as Ilyasova in the NBA restricted free agent was insured by the right of the player before any bid.

The Hawks are thinking about preparing your template Ilyasova. They have used 40 of the 64 million dollars to have four players in salary cap so now working to alleviate the payroll. In this sense we must interpret the departure of Richard Jefferson to the Spurs to be followed by Bruce Bowen. Which will save money for a sign Ilyasova with negotiating a contract of about $ 2 million per season. A figure similar to that paid to the player in Barca. And equal numbers, Ersan prefer to return to the NBA because, well, do not forget, his wife is American and Milwaukee need players in their position.

And while one is about to go get another one is near. We refer to Boniface Ndong.Barca yesterday deposited in the CBA offer 2.12 pins for 31 years and with which it has reached an agreement for two seasons and about 3 million. Now, Unicaja has ten days to 18 to 24 hours, to match. Otherwise, the Senegalese player with German passport and will Bluered.

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That spanish newspaper writer is speculating on the David Andersen situation just like the rest of us. We all will findout the official outcome on or before july 15th.

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Sorry guys I have been trying to come over for years now. It seems like the Hawks don’t won’t me to come. Maybe next year…….. F&@c% that I have been saying that for seven years now. Just trade my rights to another NBA team already.

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Hey we don’t need Wilcox or Frye or Andersen. I am all we need. I got ZAZA back, if coach put me in I will show all you hatas and none believers. I am the man. I will control the paint I will get every rebound. they wouldn’t be able to stop me. I have put on 25 lbs of muscle this off season……I ready to make Superman Howard my bitch…..

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Anakin,

I think it was Bradley who reported that but it’s time to cut ties if we’re not going to sign the guy. No need to hold him captive. What happen to free enterprise? Maybe he should file a lawsuit against the Hawks b/c this doesn’t make sense. I hope this will be address in the next CBA negotiations…

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Melvin,

The CBA is meant to protect guys already in the league, not those out of it. If anything, the players union probably would want to keep the rules as they are – the harder it is to bring players from overseas, the easier it is for current players to get/keep jobs.

The Spurs are in the early stages of a similar situation with Tiago Splitter – he’s come on like gangbusters the past couple seasons in Europe, but the Spurs have now 3 times refused to spend any part of their mid-level to bring him over, preferring instead to bolster their frontcourt with vets. Pretty soon, it’s just going to be too expensive to bring him over because he’ll have to take such a big paycut to come to the States…

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Nire,

The players make like the current CBA but do the owners currently does. Especially if teams like the Hawks/Spurs are holding players captive when there’s another team willing to sign these players. Oh well, I don’t like it but it’s not up to me to like, I guess. Wait a minute, I’m a paying customer. Dang it, let’s change the rules. I want to see the best players on the court competing as possible…lol

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Anakin,

Yeah, it’ll be tight. But it’s gonna be tight for every team in the league…

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hawks u guy’s need to go and get Chris Wilcox , everytime he come to ATL. we don’t have a answer for him on the court , he destroy the Hawks Everytime,,,,,,,,, so this will be a big P/U . Don’t let him slip away work it out . and he also got folks that live here in the A . Heavy Heavy Fans.

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I’ve been worried about the luxury tax next year, too. Any word yet on how the new deals are structured, Sekou? For example, is Bibby or Pachulia’s deal front-loaded to make the tax situation easier next year?

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Sekou based on your previous statement David Anderson is one of my two eliminated from my roster. However, my final choice is based on whether we sign Chris Wilcox or not. The final choice comes from the following group:

Maurice Evans
Mario West
Randolph Morris
Othello Hunter

If we sign Chris Wilcox then choice is between Morris and West. I personally love West hustle and effort every night. So my choice would be Morris to let go.

If we don’t sign Chris, then we would need to keep a big, so the choice to me would have to be between Evans and West; and that means West got to go. Sund love Hunter potential and he is cheap, so is Sidler. But I really would like to find a way to keep West. Look forward to your comments.

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Sekou

From what I’m reading from the speculative comments, David Andersen interest is diminishing because we signed Zaza and his role would become marginal if he signed with the Hawks. Would someone please remain him that we have a Big Big hole in our backup PF position? He must know we have more options, the Wilcox idea is sounding better by the day.

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Kill the Andersen potential….he is not a defender….we need an inside defensive presence, not a Rasheed Wallace who doesn’t like to play in the paint.
Release his rights or trade them with Chills…get something in return.
Sund, go get us a proven defensive presence…at least a big body who will match up with someone for 10 min/game. They are out there.
We need someone like a Leon Powe who can enforce his will on the 2nd unit. Stop those drives to the basket past Bibby and Smoove.
Depth does matter more in the regular season than the playoffs.

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With the way rookies are signing left and right maybe Jeff Teague will be at that press conference with Bibby and Zaza.

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Anakin,

Put simply, if the Crawford deal doesn’t work out this year, that’s ok because he’ll be expiring in 2011. That’ll make him easy to unload. But it’s amusing that you’re still comparing Crawford to Flip without acknowledging what a gargantuan upgrade he is over Flip. Flip didn’t scare defenders enough to give JJ some breathing room. Crawford will.

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We have 96 minutes to spread between Josh, Al and ZaZa. That’s an average of 32 minutes each per game. Barring injury/blowout/foul trouble, Woody won’t play another big very much, so even if we sign someone like Brandon Bass, does anyone have confidence that Woody will know how to manage player’s minutes? I dont.

I do wish we can/will sign a Joe Smith/Drew Gooden/Brandon Bass though.

And so far, the Spirit has shown that they will spend the money when it comes to the Hawks. So maybe they’ll go over the luxury tax if they have to (next year) to sign JJ and Marvin if necessary…

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aj you speak of a flat salary as something to spit omn when it is “only” 14 mil and the economy has changed dramatically since he signed in 04. from a business prespective if jj goes out there and plays like he did last year or even worse then why should i want to give him more? maybe it is time for him to take less or go his merry way. again crawford gives you leverage aj, a good business man likes that.

i still dont know why you have argued so strongly against it except to say we needed more bigs. the list as you see we wanted cost a lot to a team interested in staying below luxury which we seem destined to do. the teams that dont? well they spent, ala mavs and lakers. we get our primary target who even though i thought him a tremendous bargain four years ago (ahem, thanks billy) we get for about the same bucks and he is that much better heading into his prime. werent you the one who said to not snicker at a huge increase of on an extra half mill a year and would take it down at the old at and t?

aj are you ando in disguise?

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Doc, nah lol. I wouldn’t mind communications though fun stuff, I was seriously considering it at one point. I’m a Psyc. Major Hehehe. I’m going to Law School after I finish with my BA(shh, but don’t tell anybody, I have no intrest in discussing CBA/BYC anytime soon hehehe..).

Melvin, It was to correct a typo in my 12:28am post.

It’s a truly sad day folks. My 2nd favorite PG of the draft(to Teauge of course) just broke his foot yesterday. It doesn’t look good for him now. What will Pritchard do? Please don’t cut him. I think that’ll mean I owe nire some money or something heh.

http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=4542

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Samuel–I said I’m not into all that TMZ/People magazine stuff. So I am not the go to guy on STDs and celebrities…sorry. I just remember hearing a load of stuff around the time of his divorce getting nasty.

Ariose–You are right about the Portland game. I was looking at the preseason Portland stats. Niremetal’s point stands–when Woody had his regular lineup, the Blazers figured us out quickly and smoked the Hawks. When there was an injury, things switched up a bit and we won. Maybe Sund should swipe his clipboard about once a week to keep Woody on his toes

For y’all looking to import the Euro’s–accept the fact that owners want to make money. The current system restricts salary escalation for guys that are not playing in the NBA. It won’t change because the folks that would be in favor of it are (mostly) not a part of the NBA decision making structure.

Sports is living with the same thing everyone else is right now. It’s rare for pro athletics, but there has to be some belt tightening. A smart organization does it in ways that people don’t notice. Examples would be a slightly cheaper grade of cups, napkins, etc. in concessions. Maybe a lower grade of paper for tickets. From a personnel perspective–like Sekou said–teams carry 13 or 14 players, not a full load. Teams draft 2nd round players that they won’t have to pay…because they stay in Europe (sound familiar.) Maybe a few less concession stands are open. Burgers that are 25% fat instead of 20% fat. Generic hot dogs instead of brand name. There are so many ways to go Clark Howard if they shave in small ways that most folks ignore.

AJ–That could be another source of revenue. I think I mentioned the super experience seats last year. The 15th man is the highest bidding fan of that day. I’d take 36 like ‘Sheed–the official uni number of Hawk for a game! If that causes too much trouble with the league, the fan gets to be the assisant jr. equipment manager…and possibly takes home a game worn uni afterwards.

As for Marvin’s deal, if his back is good, I might take my tender and try again next year. Sure they have to take care of Joe first, but there will be fewer BYC contracts, so someone might get moved to make room for an unrestricted Marvin.

BWAF

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nire, I understand that Crawford is an upgrade over Flip. But when is an upgrade ever better than an addition? Because from my viewpoint, we really didn’t have a 2nd quality big man last season. I’m not sure when we ever had two quality big men on our bench. And I still say that having another jump-shooter is not nearly as valuable as having a “scorer”. If player A shots 85% jumpers and player B shoots 70% jumpers, I would choose player B if they score comparable points per minute. I truly believe this team doesn’t need anyone else who loves their own jump-shot. We’ve got that part covered in spades.

doc, a good businessman leaves his options open. It’s a lot easier to prepare for extra money resulting from making a lower salary offer than it is to prepare for the opposite. Surely, Joe’s agent has done the math and knows what’s up… same as Marvin. I just can’t envision trading Marvin or Joe for Crawford… but that may be what we have done in the long-term. And in the short-term, we are returning to the Dollar Tree looking for a big man to join Zaza and RandMo.

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Doc,

Don’t kid yourself into thinking that some team won’t offer JJ a deal starting at $16M per year if he’s a free agent next summer, barring a catastrophic injury or a major drop in production. Based on the economy, that’s about what the max salary for a guy with his tenure in the league will be. I know JJ’s not your boy, but you have to at least acknowledge that he’s going to be the consolation prize for one of the 10 teams that have cleared a ton of cap room and don’t get LeBron, Wade, or Bosh. And if you don’t want to acknowledge that for whatever reason, just ask Sekou (or anyone else who actually follows the GM chatter) and they’ll tell you the same thing.

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AJ–Looks like Melvin is telling you that the shelves are starting to look empty at Dollar Tree. We might be at the thrift store or the Pawn shop soon

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Nire,
No one else on our roster scares opponents the way Crawford will. I’m with you in that I think its a huge upgrade and it will allow JJ to not play as many minutes and should give him more room to operate when they are on the court together.

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Cosign niremetal’s 2:14 post. As soon as this offseason is over the first priority for the Hawks needs to be re-signing Joe, preferably long before he becomes a free ageny next summer.

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RA…

i dont know why Joe some consistently under value Joe…

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*why some consistently under value….

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And I’m not really sweating missing out on Frye. He has some skills but he’s pretty soft and has regressed since he entered the league. The Hawks do need to get a deal done with a big man soon, but give me Wilcox over Frye any day.

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wilcox and sund have been together in seattle, right? how was their relationship?

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MannyT, I think we may be trolling yard sales looking for Robert Traylor, Michael Olowakandi and Oliver Miller (who I read recently is looking to return to the league… and I’m not kidding). Whatever happened to Chris Taft from Pittsburgh? Hey Samuel, which Walmart did you say Jackie Butler can be found?

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How about Kelvin Cato? He used to live in Atlanta.

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Doc,

We’ll see what kind of player JJ is. But you can’t bank on a guy taking a paycut to stay put. Very, very few athletes do that. Even fewer when it’s a guy like JJ who doesn’t have huge endorsement contracts and therefore looks to his salary as his sole source of income. We can all sniff and sneer and say that he’s greedy and looking out for himself first if he doesn’t take a paycut. But Tim Duncan is probably one of the most unselfish superstars in the history of the game, and he didn’t take a paycut for San Antonio to keep him. Same with Grant Hill and Detroit back in the day. And those guys DID have huge endorsement contracts. Hell, even Battier turned down offers from contenders to take a higher-paying job with 34-win Houston. I guess they were just selfish too, huh?

It’s generally only when a guy hits the age of 34/35 and looking at their last contract that they start taking paycuts to go to a contender. JJ just turned 28. He’s in his prime and is the best player on a 47-win team.

I don’t know whether JJ will accept less money to stay here or not. To label a player as a “me-first” guy just because he chooses to maximize the most lucrative contract of his life is absurd.

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I want JJ to resign but with his $15.0 million salary, we could let Crawford start and use the money on upgrading with another player or two. Sund traded for a lot of options with Crawford.

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Anakin Joe,

Can you at least suggest guys who are still playing in the league…lol

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Melvin, Hollins would work. Is he still an RFA or did the Mavs renounce him with all of their wheeling and dealing? Because if he’s an RFA, we probably can’t offer enough for Cuban to let him walk.

Sekou, call Dikembe and check on his rehab.

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Ariose,

The Mavs may not match considering they are spending big money on Gortat/Dampier and acquire another big man from the Raps in the Marion trade (who’s making a good penny himself)….

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Melvin, ooh I didn’t know. Hopefully we can get Hollins or Wilcox.

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Melvin to provide some serious names (and based SOLELY on my assumption that we can only offer minimum salaries), I think we could consider names like Malik Rose, Robert Swift, Michael Ruffin, Cedric Simmons, Melvin Ely and Shelden Williams. Would injury-prone guys like Chris Mihm, Raef LaFrentz, Sean May or Leon Powe accept a minimum/partially guaranteed deal with maybe a team option for next year? If so, I would roll the dice on one of them (especially Powe and May).

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Doc, I’m thinking team guy that will finish what he starts. At least that’s what I’m hoping. And Joe IS the best, and most professional player that we have right now. I’ll tell you something. After the Cleveland series, Joe Johnson stayed on that court and shook hands with that team, even hugged Lebron James. That, my good sir, is a gentleman sportsman, and that breed is becoming more and more rare. Now, I don’t know what’s going to happen with his numbers. I figure that since the Hawks have more weapons now (Crawford), they may actually go up. But the one thing that I am sure of is the professional integrity of Joe Johnson. I’m also sure that all of a man’s contributions to a team, and to a sport, and to a community, and to the next generation don’t always show up in statistics that are tallied at the end of the year.

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Boozer to Chicago? The East is going to be a beast.

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O’Brien,

Two things:
1) The max that JJ’s deal could start at is $16M. It would probably be 5 years/$80M over the life of it. As I said, some team will give him that.
2) You wanna play the “project players stats if they got more shots” game? Ok. How’s this. Kobe takes 21 shots per game, 26.8ppg. Mbenga takes 2.5 shots per game, 2.7ppg. Clearly, the Lakers have been going about this all wrong. They should give the ball to Mbenga more.

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A better way to put it is this: If we flipped the number of shot attempts JJ gets with the number that Josh gets, I’m pretty confident JJ’s FG% would be significantly higher and Josh’s would be significantly lower. Same if we flipped Joe’s with Marvin’s or Joe’s with Al’s.

I agree that we should spread the ball more, but I hate it when people look at FG% and project outward from that. I went off on a long rant about that last night…

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josh smith for amare stoudamire???

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Niremental….

absolutely… to your 3:05

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Ricki, Stop It. Just Stop It.

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Heck, didn’t we (Hawks) paid Joe $20M in the 1st year of his contract? What’s the point that Im trying to make? Heck I don’t even know. Oh yeah, we should worry about Joe contract after this season.

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Melvin, check the very bottom left corner of the attached.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsjo02.html

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We’ve Been Down That Road Before.

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Brandon Bass would have been a nice addition, but I wouldn’t mind Hollins or Wilcox either. Either way, the Hawks need to act soon. Seems like another big man is getting snapped up every day.

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chaz i like your style doesnt matter what you say.

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doc, I will enjoy the season too. In fact, I’m going to enjoy the heck out it, especially Crawford (since he may be the long-term SG), Joe (since it may be his last year as a a Hawk) and Marvin (see Joe reason).

Melvin, that site stopped at the 07-08 season (unfortunately). I think Joe signed a $67M deal over 5 years. Started at $12M and increased by $744k each season. He’s scheduled to make a hair under $14,980k next season.

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Anakin,
See my link. Johnson got 20M his 1st year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2104688

Doc,
Check that link two. I think there’s an answer to an old agrument between You/Ando and others. Look like Phx was considering matching Joe offer. I know I’m blowing some dust off that age old debate…

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Doc,

Here’s another link saying that Phx would have matched the Hawks offer. You’re Welcome old man….lol

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2120960

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Bass is gone to Orlando. That hurts bigtime. Is Solo really going to be our 3rd big? Any chance you see us picking up Stackhouse now that he’s realeased to shore up the 3?

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RA- I have read your blogs about the hawks on this and mb’s site and you are yet to say anything that makes sense. You might be better to stick to something you do well!!! This certainly is not it.

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Sekou,

We may have to re-evaluate your offseason grades if the Magic gets to keep Brandon Bass. Add that atheletic workhorse in the paint next to the game best center D.Howard and move Lewis back to his natural SF position with Vince on the other wing and the little midget Nelson running the offense. Throw in the supersubs AJ, Pietrus and Ryan Anderson. I’m not so sure if Orlando is ready to hand the east over to the Celtics, Cavs and Hawks…lol… They still need a backup center.

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Anakin,

My badd, you are right. I was confusing the projected offer to Joe that included a balloon $20M up front payment to scare Phx in matching the offer. Look like his actual contract started at $12M….

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Sautee,

Uh…yeah. It does. I hardly think Chills was being “selfish” by going to Europe. On the contrary, I said he went because they offered him the biggest paycheck.

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Nire,

I think the same.

kirk, and many others however would disagree, methinks.

My emoticon was not directed at you specifically.

Now go study.

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Ha…damn, Sautee. You’re not even letting me finish my 10-minute study break? You’re worse than the BarBri people

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or is that next year? maybe it is…

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yes sautee imposter it is and ra probably knows it too, not my style in many ways.

melvin ill check it out. if ando were in the room as it happened he still wouldnt believe it. too many in the know including colangio have said it only joe pissed sarver off.

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Check out the monster dunks , on Chris Wilcox ,,,,,,, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LANcTB21mVA Come On Hawks Let’s Do This……

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alex,

Almost 5 mins of above the rim highlights by Wilcox and not one of them was a block shot (although you said checkout his monster dunks). If we sign him Anakin Joe will have a heart attack b/c the Hawks have signed a Chucker (Crawford) and Dunker (Wilcox). I’m sure he’s going to point out that someone needs to throw the alley oop to Wilcox. And I’m not going to even say what Clyde is going to think. Lets just say, Wilcox is not 7ft and he ain’t having that (>= 7ft only)…

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Thats what i’m talking about we need Wilcox , and Wilcox can block shots to , where have you guys been HELLO!!!!! He Is The Beast

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o.k. CLYDE,

so that wasn’t you? Alright, I will let you off the Spud-Webb – hook then! But it sure was fun believing that it was. I know you just love impersonations!

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