Let’s make a deal
The original "King of Deals" (that's Monty Hall for all you mid-80s babies) must be proud of NBA general managers this summer, what with all action in free agency.
HAWKSVILLE - Is your head spinning?
Are you still trying to sort through all the dips, dives, twists and turns of this NBA free agent frenzy (which so far has lived up to that moniker in every sense of the word).
I know the Hawks haven’t gone crazy and done anything wildly splashy, much to the chagrin of some of you. But plenty of other teams seem happy to oblige the fantasy basketball bent in all of us.
Just reading about this four-team deal spearheaded by Dallas and Toronto to bring Shawn Marion to the Mavs and allow the Raptors to snag Hedo Turkoglu (among other benefits) should be enough to satisfy your thirst for pure craziness in the NBA summer.
Monty Hall should be hosting this stuff.
It’s a genius deal by all involved, if you ask me. It’s a just reward for the folks willing to dive into these deep, treacherous sign-and-trade waters and hook the big fish they were looking for. Who knows if it all works out the way the teams involved hope. That they are even willing to swan dive into a deal this complicated makes them winners in my book.
Yeah, I’ve campaigned for prudence around these parts in most instances, but I’m no NBA neo-conservative. I realize that in this day and age, as always, those who take the greatest risks stand to reap the greatest rewards.
That doesn’t mean the Hawks’ recent work to keep both Mike Bibby and Zaza Pachulia in the fold should be dismissed (and there’s nothing bubbling on the Marvin Williams front. Crickets on Flip Murray, too. And I suspect things will be relatively quiet around the Hawks for the next few days, no matter how many times someone tries to stoke the Amare Stoudemire-for-Josh Smith trade rumor that refuses to die). They are doing the business that good teams do in the summer. And that’s a welcome change from some of the puzzling and pulse-free summers of the Hawks’ recent past.
But if your thing is daring and dazzling trades and high-risk acquisitions, this is your time.
Since before draft night we’ve seen the Spurs remake themselves with the addition of Richard Jefferson and now Antonio McDyess. The Magic recharged themselves with Vince Carter. The champion Lakers stepped up the pace by acquiring Ron Artest. The Cavaliers grabbed Shaq. And the Celtics have added Rasheed Wallace. And those are just the major moves by the true title contenders.
Again, time will tell which moves worked and which moves were for not.
But in this day and age, simply making moves is enough to legitimize an operation. While it’s still a bit too early to judge, I’m wondering which move you think will be the best (not that I had to ask any of you to tell us what you think)?
I’ll admit, I can’t help but think the Spurs have shifted the balance of power in their favor, provided Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili return healthy and hungry this season. The Magic’s move might be underrated by some of us non-believers in the VC movement, but Ryan Anderson is legit and will help offset the loss of Turkoglu. Trading Artest for Trevor Ariza (which is what the Lakers accomplished by allowing Ariza to walk and sign with Houston did) improves the Lakers on paper, so perhaps they’ve done what was necessary to retain their championship aura. Then again, snagging Shaq usually means a greater chance at a title for his team, so maybe the Cavs have pushed themselves over the top …
What say you?
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870 comments Add your comment
doc
July 9th, 2009
10:20 pm
manny t the 10:05 is classic!
MannyT
July 9th, 2009
10:20 pm
niremetal–the Battier article was a good read. The more impressive info was in The Wages of Wins back in 2007. Hits on exactly what you mentioned–wins.
http://dberri.wordpress.com/2007/11/01/what-the-box-score-data-says-about-shane-battier/
Now if all the Judas for Jesus traders can come up with a way for us to get Battier, I’ll stop talking about getting Marvin back.
BWAF
niremetal
July 9th, 2009
10:23 pm
MannyT,
Another thing that even Morey in Houston can’t account for with all the complex metrics in the world is coaching. I remember a number of times that people have said “we’re better off without Player X” because the Hawks would go on a winning streak shortly after Player X went down hurt (and at various times, Player X has been JJ, Josh, and Marvin). My theory is that whenever a Hawks starter gets hurt, it throws off the other team’s scouting reports on us because normally we’re a very predictable team. So we always seem to win at least 2 games when a starter goes down. But once the scouting reports catch up to us, we struggle. It’s happened twice with JJ in the past 3 years, once with Josh, and once with Marvin.
How do you come up with a stat that accounts for Woody’s predictability? Heh.
Melvin
July 9th, 2009
10:25 pm
I think Sund should get on the phone with Ryan Hollins and his agent. After today trade, Mavs pickup another center from the Raps (Nathan Jawai,6-10 280) to go along with Erick Dampier and possibly Gotrat/Brandon Bass. I think we could get Hollins with at a bargain price. 7ft very atheletic that’s a decent defense player. Get it done Sund…
niremetal
July 9th, 2009
10:26 pm
MannyT,
My thoughts exactly. I’ve actually floated Marvin for Battier a couple times…they’re similar types of players in some ways. Both have high bball IQs and seem to do “the little things” well. Marvin has more athleticism and offensive game, but Battier is second-to-none in the league in terms of “the little things.”
MannyT
July 9th, 2009
10:28 pm
Thanks, doc.
AJ & Sautee get the blame, er, credit for that line of thought.
Also enjoyed your sprained ankle link this AM. Comments about it sucked into same post void that took out info about Jamal’s little brother as the LePosterizer. Hawks marketing people need to get to him before the first game against the Cavs. Put him in one of those time out commercials and bring him to the game to sit in the VIP area.
BWAF
KevinA
July 9th, 2009
10:33 pm
Big year for JJ. If he can give up around 3 shots per game and shoot the same amount of points he will be more efficient. If Bibby can give up 2 shots per game and make the same amount of shots he would be more efficient. If Al, Marvin and Josh can absorb these shot attempts without losing their shooting % we could pick up 4-6 pts per game. I know I am streaching thing a bit but if all the players shoot just 5% better at free throws we could add 2 pts per game. I don’t think this is beyond the organic growth of the team. We may not be in the top three but we could be very close. Two years from now I think we could expect the same improvement. We could be very good.
G-Man
July 9th, 2009
10:37 pm
Is Jordan Crawford like a half-brother to Jamal? I can’t find any info on that.
niremetal
July 9th, 2009
10:42 pm
KevinA,
I don’t think you’re stretching – I think you’re right on. Before JJ was getting double teamed on every play, he averaged 25ppg on 47% shooting. If we can get him back to 47% and still get 20ppg out of him, I think we win 50 games. BUT that will require more ball movement on offense – and Woody’s offense seems like it’s allergic to ball movement.
Anakin Joe
July 9th, 2009
10:45 pm
I wonder how many jerseys Battier sold last season?
MannyT, yeah, the all-Woody Team was top notch. Make sure that Herb Brown is an assistant coach on that squad.
Does Mad Maxx Beyond Thunderdome ever get old? Two men enter, one man leaves. And this one man leaves for the night.
Melvin
July 9th, 2009
10:48 pm
Ok here’s my best Aroise impersonation. Checkout the twitter between Jchills and Hawksquawk. What do yall think????
Hawksquawk:
@JChillin as much as we’d love to have you back in ATL, any word on Sign & Trade offers?
Chills:
@TheHawkSquawk not really at liberty to say. Ill let Sund tell yall. Hahahahaha
Flip "Goon-Squad" Murray
July 9th, 2009
10:48 pm
I worked that sissie LeBrick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slxMnJZAF8U&NR=1
Holla@ Me
F(dot)Murray
Out
MannyT
July 9th, 2009
10:50 pm
Wrong JC…My mistake, his brother is Joe Crawford, recently of Kentucky.
This is the Jordan Crawford interview..
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4316358
Anakin Joe
July 9th, 2009
10:53 pm
By the way, assuming that Marvin accepts the QO or signs for $8M, how close are we to the luxury tax (and assume Chill is back in Greece)? I’m just wondering if there is room for a $3M-$5M big man (MLE)?
Ariose
July 9th, 2009
10:55 pm
Melvin, lol
Good look. As you can see by my body of work today. I’m very busy “promoting” and enjoying every momnet of it hehehehe….
Did y’all chack yout that new Flip interview I posted on the previous page? Hit it up!!!
Ariose
July 9th, 2009
10:59 pm
AJ, Theres always room lol. It’s the MLE, it allowy you to go over the cap for players whose rights you do not own.
I really don’t see us going into luxury tax, nor do we have too. We’ll be VERY CLOSE though.
KevinA
July 9th, 2009
11:00 pm
niremetal, we are a better team now. We need the JJ of old. Hope springs eternal in the summer.
real#1hawksfan
July 9th, 2009
11:00 pm
Sekou, were you there?
Bear with me for a second people, but i just got back from the pro-am summer league games tonight at Adamsville, and let me put some people on notice, Thaddeus Young is a Beast. I sat there in amazement at the quickness, Skillz, and overall “unstopability” of this guy just wishing there was some kind of way he could end up in a Hawks uni one day. I guarantee multiple All-Star appearances for him, wish Philly would take Marvin and Chillz for Thad and call it a day. Sorry, just a little wishful thinking on my part. By the way to all the Tech fans out there Ghani Lawal and Derrick Favors were also on Thad’s team, they look great together, expect big thing from GT basketball next year, or at least their frontcourt.
blue hawk
July 9th, 2009
11:02 pm
David Andersen people!!!
If you’re just looking for a rotational player at the 4 and 5 spots then he’s it. If you’re gonna give Hoffa and Smoove the bulk of the minutes at the big spots then I see nothing wrong in bringing this guy in, give him a look, at a salary that does not break the bank. David Andersen brings skills we sorely miss at the frontline.
He might even make Mr. Sund look like a genius if he pans out.
niremetal
July 9th, 2009
11:02 pm
Anakin,
We’re good. The luxury tax threshold is $69.2M. Right now, we’re at ~$53.5M. That gives us just under $16M to spend on Marvin, sign a big, and pick up a couple minimum salary players to fill out the roster.
niremetal
July 9th, 2009
11:03 pm
Ariose,
Check out my latest tweet to Chill.
KevinA
July 9th, 2009
11:05 pm
Flip you need a raise. Will you settle for 2 mil
Wabe
July 9th, 2009
11:11 pm
I hear you Manny T, guess I’m a bit late. Just found out a couple hours back on ESPN NEWS myself…
Just thought it was funny..
doc
July 9th, 2009
11:15 pm
manny t i’ll probably repost that one about ankle sprains as it is a total misconception as to how benign they are and about everyone that pas sports has had one and had it treated inferiorly. problem down the road for sure. want necessarily speaking of the line but if it was the remark about bk to funny as a clincher.
Hoops
July 9th, 2009
11:16 pm
niremetal,
I really like Battier as well. I agree with what you are saying about his effect on winning. But you can’t forget that one of the most knowledgeable coaches of all time, Hubie Brown, retired when Battier left Memphis. Memphis went back to loosing at that point just like they were before Coach Brown took the Memphis job. They haven’t been the same since.
doc
July 9th, 2009
11:20 pm
hey flip just another in the long line of another non foul call on lebron who takes you out with his body underneath and no friggin whistle. gosh i hate refs or stern’s rules that are unwritten.
niremetal
July 9th, 2009
11:23 pm
Hoops,
Your timing is off – Brown retired after 2004-2005 (when they went 45-37). Fratello was the coach in 05-06 (when they improved slightly to 49-33). Battier left in the summer of 2006 but Fratello stayed on as head coach. Without Battier (but with the same coach), they started the year 6-24. Then Fratello got canned, but it didn’t make a difference…
The Rockets had the same coach before and after Battier’s arrival as well.
Hoops
July 9th, 2009
11:23 pm
Anakin Joe,
I believe we have about 3.5M-4M left under the L. tax cap. Somewhere in that ball park.
Ariose
July 9th, 2009
11:25 pm
KevinA, 2mill??? For Rick? Done Deal!!! My agent won’t be too happy but he’ll get over it. My market doesn’t even look like it’ll be Full MLE righ now. The leauge just loaded up on guard via tha draft. I’m Still the bes FA guard available tho. 9mill for J-Kidd(Bibby-like defens nowadays…sorry Bibb)? Just say no. Cuban coulda had 12.2ppg(me!) for 2-3mill bad investment.
Holla!!
niremetal
July 9th, 2009
11:26 pm
Hoops,
See my above post on the tax threshold
Here’s the Hoopshype page, which shows our current payroll ($42.8M) before the additions of Bibby and Zaza:
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/atlanta.htm
Ariose
July 9th, 2009
11:27 pm
Nire, LOL!!! You KNOW i’m about to get in on this!!!
Flip "Goon-Squad" Murray
July 9th, 2009
11:28 pm
KevinA, My main man Ariose had to send that last msg for me. What can I say, the fans needed me!!!
2mill=Done Deal!!
Jamal Crawford
July 9th, 2009
11:29 pm
Yo KevinA I’m sorry I did not sign your autograph that time you asked for it. It seems that you are still mad at me about it. I wont be getting traded anytime soon so you might as well go get my jersey and cheer for me. The fact that you think Chill and Flip is better than me makes me laugh. I promise that next time I see you I will sign anything you want so you can stop coming on here whining about me and making up dumb trade scenarios to get me out of town before I even play my fist preseason game with the Hawks.
Hoops
July 9th, 2009
11:30 pm
niremetal,
You are right! Coach Brown did leave after the ‘05 season. I was thinking it was after “06.
doc
July 9th, 2009
11:32 pm
hoops fratello kept it together a bit longer then fratello lost it with one of his players, lost the team in the playoffs then never got them back to get fired after a very poor start the next year when gasol was injured. the owners decided to tank the season. they actually got a 50 win year with fratello in part of a year and then a whole year. gasol’s injury and financial problems for the owner undid that franchise not brown leaving.
Melvin
July 9th, 2009
11:33 pm
Rick Sund,
Give this guy 2 mil and a Hawk uniform. We still would have over 3 mil for David Andersen…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eNUsQtPDV8
Hoops
July 9th, 2009
11:33 pm
My figures included Marvin’s 8M and 1.3M for Teague. I think we are both close to the same figures.
doc
July 9th, 2009
11:34 pm
i guess it was a near 50 win year like near beer.
Flip "Goon-Squad" Murray
July 9th, 2009
11:45 pm
Hey, Jamal. I know we supposed to be teammates n’ all, but don’t talk to my boi like that. He’s a true fan. He’s smart too. Good judge of talent. See you in veterans camp sucka.
KevinA
July 9th, 2009
11:46 pm
Jamal, if you pass a little more, play a little defense and shoot at Flips and Marvins numbers i will humble down and and praise you and Sund. I am not against you buddy, just your history.
Joe Johnson
July 9th, 2009
11:50 pm
Jamal and Flip, y’all are trippin. I’ll school both of you and Ariose. At the same time. Wit one hand tied behind my back.
Sheeeeeit.
Blast
July 9th, 2009
11:51 pm
KevinA,
Nice points, and Nire is right too. When the Hawks move the ball, they play well, and get results. More importantly, they engage their bigs. When the ball sticks with JJ, then the other team can read the Hawks like a hawk. (Pun intended) That’s when they swarm JJ, who still holds the ball. Rest of Hawks stand around, then… turnover, or a rushed shot with the clock winding down. Like Josh jacking up a 3.
The offence has to change. We don’t need another, ISO Crawford when he has the ball. Move the damn ball. Move the defence. Seams will appear in the defence when it’s moved. If you don’t have a shot or passing lane withing 3 seconds, then move that darned ball, man!
Lastly, no matter what the Hawks do this off season, every team member has to acquire a rebounding mindset. You cannot start the break until you secure the ball. You cannot gamble by not blocking out your man. I’m sick of teams getting multiple offensive rebounding opportunities against the Hawks. There is no way you can run if you cannot rebound the ball off YOUR OWN GLASS. Bottom line.
Flip "Goon-Squad" Murray
July 9th, 2009
11:55 pm
Hey Joe, I Still jump higher than you dawg. How many dunks have you had in you career compard to me? Yeeaaahhh…
Samuel
July 9th, 2009
11:57 pm
Cuz,
I hate to keep bringing this up since you say it aint happening but do you know if “MY Boy Rick” has even reached out to Lamar Odom?
I can’t help but believe that if a true salesman knew the language he could at least get this man to consider the ATL. Here’s a little bit of how my pitch would go:
RS: Lamar, how are things going, my man?
LO: Ahhh man, it’s go’n, I guess. Nothing new, just negotiating a new deal out here.
RS: Congratulations on the Championship this year. I know you’ve been in the league a while and it must be sweet.
LO: Yea man, sweet.
RS: Hey Lamar, ever thought about playing for the Atlanta Hawks?
LO: Not really, nobody ever asked me.
RS: Well, i’m asking you now. I know the Lakers are offering you around 6mil per year. Lamar, we think you are one of the most talented and versitile players in the league and we are willing to give you 8million per year and guarantee you a starting position. What do you think about that?
LO: Fo Real?
RS: Fo real. We think your length and championship experience may be just what the Hawks need to take us to another level. As you know, the lakers just signed Artest so they really are looking for you to come off the bench again this season. We think that you took one for the team last year but you deserve to start? What you think.
LO: Let me see. 5.8 vs 8. Hum, I’ll take it.
RS: Good. Lamar, you married.
LO: Naahh
RS: Good, we’ll be sending Gabriel Union and Ciera over there to pick you up tomorrow.
LO: 4 sho.
Ariose
July 9th, 2009
11:58 pm
Huh??? Joe, I’m a FAN!!! Just an innocent bystander. I’m shocked. But don’t think just cause i’m bloggin that I don’t have any game. I’m always up to any challenge.
KevinA
July 10th, 2009
12:00 am
Blast, I am with you, well said.
Josh Smith
July 10th, 2009
12:00 am
Man, be quiet Flip. I’ll dunk on ALL yo azzes. And everyone knows I’m the best 1-on-1 guy we have. I know – let’s have a 1-on-1 tourney now. First round – Mike vs Flip, Jamal vs JJ, and me vs Marv…
Hey…where’s Marvin?
Marvin Williams
July 10th, 2009
12:01 am
Sorry I’m late, guyz. Rod had me tied up in the shed in the back of his house again.
Ariose
July 10th, 2009
12:11 am
Damn Marvin,That must’ve sucked lol!
OZINATL
July 10th, 2009
12:13 am
I agree with Blue Hawk 100% and have been telling anyone who will listen, for what they Hawks need and the money involved, Andersen is the perfect guy. Skilled, shoots at a high clip and we might actually have a big men who Woody might run an occasional play for (since he can score from multiple situations). He would give the second unit a huge boost.
For all those knocking his defense, do you really expect to get a guy who will be in your second unit to be able to play both great offense and defense, it ain’t really gonna happen otherwise the dude would’ve been in a Hawks uniform when they drafted him, and he would cost more. Hey, even starters in the NBA can’t play great offense and defense, usually they are great at one and not the other, except the elite players, so stop knocking him for what he supposedly can’t do and jump on his bandwagon for what he’ll bring to the table.
If Sund don’t make this move, it’ll be one mistake on an otherwise great start to free agency.