Let’s make a deal
The original "King of Deals" (that's Monty Hall for all you mid-80s babies) must be proud of NBA general managers this summer, what with all action in free agency.
HAWKSVILLE - Is your head spinning?
Are you still trying to sort through all the dips, dives, twists and turns of this NBA free agent frenzy (which so far has lived up to that moniker in every sense of the word).
I know the Hawks haven’t gone crazy and done anything wildly splashy, much to the chagrin of some of you. But plenty of other teams seem happy to oblige the fantasy basketball bent in all of us.
Just reading about this four-team deal spearheaded by Dallas and Toronto to bring Shawn Marion to the Mavs and allow the Raptors to snag Hedo Turkoglu (among other benefits) should be enough to satisfy your thirst for pure craziness in the NBA summer.
Monty Hall should be hosting this stuff.
It’s a genius deal by all involved, if you ask me. It’s a just reward for the folks willing to dive into these deep, treacherous sign-and-trade waters and hook the big fish they were looking for. Who knows if it all works out the way the teams involved hope. That they are even willing to swan dive into a deal this complicated makes them winners in my book.
Yeah, I’ve campaigned for prudence around these parts in most instances, but I’m no NBA neo-conservative. I realize that in this day and age, as always, those who take the greatest risks stand to reap the greatest rewards.
That doesn’t mean the Hawks’ recent work to keep both Mike Bibby and Zaza Pachulia in the fold should be dismissed (and there’s nothing bubbling on the Marvin Williams front. Crickets on Flip Murray, too. And I suspect things will be relatively quiet around the Hawks for the next few days, no matter how many times someone tries to stoke the Amare Stoudemire-for-Josh Smith trade rumor that refuses to die). They are doing the business that good teams do in the summer. And that’s a welcome change from some of the puzzling and pulse-free summers of the Hawks’ recent past.
But if your thing is daring and dazzling trades and high-risk acquisitions, this is your time.
Since before draft night we’ve seen the Spurs remake themselves with the addition of Richard Jefferson and now Antonio McDyess. The Magic recharged themselves with Vince Carter. The champion Lakers stepped up the pace by acquiring Ron Artest. The Cavaliers grabbed Shaq. And the Celtics have added Rasheed Wallace. And those are just the major moves by the true title contenders.
Again, time will tell which moves worked and which moves were for not.
But in this day and age, simply making moves is enough to legitimize an operation. While it’s still a bit too early to judge, I’m wondering which move you think will be the best (not that I had to ask any of you to tell us what you think)?
I’ll admit, I can’t help but think the Spurs have shifted the balance of power in their favor, provided Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili return healthy and hungry this season. The Magic’s move might be underrated by some of us non-believers in the VC movement, but Ryan Anderson is legit and will help offset the loss of Turkoglu. Trading Artest for Trevor Ariza (which is what the Lakers accomplished by allowing Ariza to walk and sign with Houston did) improves the Lakers on paper, so perhaps they’ve done what was necessary to retain their championship aura. Then again, snagging Shaq usually means a greater chance at a title for his team, so maybe the Cavs have pushed themselves over the top …
What say you?
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870 comments Add your comment
Flip "Goon-Squad" Murray
July 9th, 2009
8:03 pm
This is what you call FULL COVERAGE lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ-8BNnJXcw&feature=fvw
Flip "Goon-Squad" Murray
July 9th, 2009
8:06 pm
I’ll Talk to y’all lil Homies later. Back to my fan Mail.
F(dot) Murray
Out.
Clyde
July 9th, 2009
8:08 pm
drmaryb that wasn’t me
newkid
July 9th, 2009
8:17 pm
Knew that would get a rise out of you Samuel. You’re one of a kind man.
Rod from College Park
July 9th, 2009
8:25 pm
Wabe,
Actually Joe does pretty much check those type of players any way. He is listed at 6′7 so he is a big 2 guard and a samll 3. I think he could play either one with ease. Whenever we play Indiana, Joe checks Granger. My point is that versatility is not something MArvin has. He can only play and defend the 3 position. I am not saying get rid of him for nothing, but I would much rather have Bibby, Joe, Crawford and Joe starting in as opposed to MArvin. I would also rather have Childress than Marvin for the reasons listed above.
Yupperz/Stating the Obvious/Niremetal…………. Eat a @*&$.
Flip "Goon-Squad" Murray
July 9th, 2009
8:26 pm
One More thing.
They need to make a shirt called: “I Broke LeBrons Ankles” I’d rock dat to sleep. Furreal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMZZxAB6SKw
See, Done deal.
I crosssed his @$$ up in the 09′ playoffs too. As soon as I get the ootage ima let y’all peep tha vid…..Matter of fact, I crossed his butt durin’ the 09′ reg season a few time too. Y’all be on tha lookout for more footage. I can’t beleive he confiscated that tape. He should be banned from basketball. What a disgrace.
Don’t worry tho I’ll let ou see me work his over-inflated egotistical azz over a few times. I got tha homies workin’ of tha footage as we speak.
F(dot) Murray. Holla@ ya Boi Rick!
Oh yea, and my Philles started out real rough but they gon bounce back and win tha World Series this year. Repeat. Done Deal.
Holla.
Flip "Goon-Squad" Murray
July 9th, 2009
8:28 pm
Rod, Don’t be talkin’ bout my homie Marv like dat. Done Deal.
Holla
KevinA
July 9th, 2009
8:32 pm
Anakin, I would love to see the back court pass the ball so we could find out. If JJ, Crawford, Flip and Bibby combined would pass the ball to Josh, Al, ZaZa, Marvin and Chills. About 600 possessions a year I believe would make a big difference. We would find out. That equals about 7 possessions a game.
At the beginning of last year I did not have this opinion. The organic growth of Marvin,Josh, Al and ZaZa made passing much more effective. Bibby to his credit got the ball to them more frequently.
This year these kids have matured one more year. This is the year for a more balanced attack.
This is the reasoning for a Crawford for Chills/Flip kinda deal. At this point why mess with the chemistry.
Mark
July 9th, 2009
8:35 pm
Who is sreening these blogs? Why are you allowing this nonsense from some of these idiots. This is for sports! Surely there are other sites for this junk! Come on!
Sautee
July 9th, 2009
8:43 pm
Astro Joe,
About this: “Maybe if our front-court youngsters remain healthy, they will have a chance to demonstrate consistent offensive skills. But, seriously, what are the chances that any of them will be more proficient offensively than Joe, Bibby or Crawford?”
And just exactly how would one measure that comparable proficiency?
They (Smith, Horford and Williams) already shoot a MUCH higher percentage than the backcourt.
Do you know a better measure of offensive proficiency?
Just askin’………
Seems like we just need to feed the youngun’s a bit more. But I’ll say this (hey you were wanting me to step out and venture something):
if we are as heavily tilted toward the backcourt as last year, we WILL have chemistry problems, IMHO. Time will certainly tell.
Anakin Joe
July 9th, 2009
8:45 pm
KevinA, hopefully Woody will demand some shot attempts at various times for the front-court (e.g. early in each period). But not many guards with a scorer’s mentality will be super-patient if those guys don’t get it done after a few possessions.
jerrywest
July 9th, 2009
8:52 pm
Luxury tax issue if we match Chillz:
If we match Chillz and go over the luxury threshold, and then turn around and trade him to a team with salary cap room/exception for draft pick, do we have to pay luxury tax? He is a great trade asset at MLE salary.
niremetal
July 9th, 2009
8:52 pm
Ariose,
What’ll you do with your new handle if/when Flip goes somewhere else? Will it go the way of SalimFan?
niremetal
July 9th, 2009
8:54 pm
Rod,
I’ve given up on you, dude. Nice try, though.
KevinA
July 9th, 2009
8:54 pm
Dosen’t commen sense dictate passing to the players who score a higher percentage? Hmmmmmmm
jerrywest
July 9th, 2009
9:00 pm
Hawks need to spend their Flip money to produce 6 productive physical fouls to a center. Bye Flip. Wish you had chosen us over Indiana/Detroit in 07-08.
Anakin Joe
July 9th, 2009
9:00 pm
Sautee, fair and good point. If they (front court) limit TOs, hit their free throws and shoot a higher FG% than the backcourt, they absolutely should get more opportunities. Basically, some type of point per possession metric should show who is more efficient. I agree.
Anakin Joe
July 9th, 2009
9:02 pm
KevinA, I’m not sure that it is that simple, or Biedrins would have gotten more shot attempts than Crawford, right?
Ariose
July 9th, 2009
9:19 pm
Nire, lol. That’s not as full time gig lol. I was just messin’ around hehehe….
Flip "Goon-Squad" Murray
July 9th, 2009
9:22 pm
jerrywest, Already talked to my main man Rick. I’m home. Done Deal. Stop cryin. I’m here to win for you baby!
Flip “Goon-Squad” Murray + Mo Evans= FlipMo Squad
Theres no FlipMo without Flip. Y’all think about that.
Holla.
Samuel
July 9th, 2009
9:23 pm
Thanks for the rise Kid (pun intended). I sometime get tired of talking about rumors and crap. I like to change it up a little.
Nire,
Please stop mentioning Shaq and Ilgauskas in the same breath. Big Z showed that he’s a “punk” when it counts. Ship his as_ to Toronto or New York where he can jack up 25 footers and they call him a center.
There were only 2 centers in the league better than Shaq this year at 37. No comparison.
Ariose
July 9th, 2009
9:23 pm
nire, When Salim gives me a reason to break out the old hanle, YOU KNOW it’s goin’ down heheheh!
Flip "Goon-Squad" Murray
July 9th, 2009
9:26 pm
Mark, wat “idiots” and which “junk” u referrin’ to homie?
F(dot)Murray Holla@ me!
KevinA
July 9th, 2009
9:28 pm
Why is Amare so attractive? Hmmmm he shoots at a .550 over the past couple of years. More efficient than anyone on our team. Averages 22-25 pts per game. Of course he had Nash to get him the ball.
With Bibby passing Josh shot .492 averaged 16 pts per game and about 1 less rebound. Josh is young while Amare is older. If Josh improves his free throws a bit and chooses not to shoot a few three pointers he could close that gap. Amare is prob worth the money. While Josh should be considered as a bargain considering his upside, considering the difference in money.
Now Crawford is close to the money Josh makes. Shoots like .404, no defense and few rebounds. I think Crawford would be a good pickup for 5 million coming off the bench. I would rather have Flip for 3 million. Chills is worth 6 mil and is young and has upside. Lets get it done.
Paddy
July 9th, 2009
9:29 pm
Marvin makes Hawks just as good as last season. 4th place and boring.
blue hawk
July 9th, 2009
9:29 pm
is the hawks management underestimating David Andersen?
that’s a nice piece to have right there. legit size – 6′11″, and legit skills (polished offensive arsenal for a big man, with a nice shooting touch and percentages) with legit big game experience – Euro championships (albeit non-NBA experience). the guy is also a pretty decent rebounder especially on the offensive glass – don’t let the stats fool you, think Marc Gasol, Luis Scola or Oberto (Oberto doesn’t always snags the rebound but he almost always snags the ball or puts a hand on it so another teamate is able to get the ball). those guys didn’t have monster reboundingaverages in Europe but don’t tell me they can’t rebound or fight for the ball.
come on Mr. Sund make the move on David already will ya. if you want another big man, David Andersen is it and he’s just yours for the taking. it’s in your face, open your eyes, Mr. Sund.
niremetal
July 9th, 2009
9:30 pm
Sautee,
I’m with AJ on this one. I think that we SHOULD give our frontcourt players more shots, but it’s not that simple. FG% is actually a terrible measure of offensive proficiency, because it’s heavily, heavily skewed towards players who get most of their shot attempts off open dunks, tip-ins, and other types of shots that require minimal offensive skill. Dennis Rodman led the “Bad Boys” Pistons in FG% for four straight years, but I don’t think anyone will seriously argue that he was a more “proficient” offensive player than Zeke, Dumars, Aguirre, or Laimbeer.
Mark West is #3 all time in FG%, but he is quite possibly the worst rotation player I ever had the misfortune of seeing in a Hawks uniform. Dude made Jon Koncak look like Hakeem (and did I mention that Koncak led the Hawks in FG% twice?).
A better measure of offensive proficiency is a metric like True Shooting Percentage, which takes into account free throws and the fact that 3 pointers are worth 1.5 as much as 2s (and thus are more efficient if the percentage of shots made is held constant). But even that is a far-from-perfect metric, unless you believe that Michael Jordan is the 72nd best offensive player of all time.
I don’t think it’s possible to design a metric in basketball that is a good indicator of a player’s overall offensive proficiency. It all depends on the role the player is supposed to play in the offense and how well that player fills the role. There’s no metric for that.
Mark
July 9th, 2009
9:33 pm
I didn’t name any names but if the shoe fits……………….
niremetal
July 9th, 2009
9:34 pm
PS – Not saying FG% is a useless measure. Just saying that the mere fact that a player shoots a higher percentage from the floor hardly means we should give them the ball more. And that being said – and as I said already – we should give our frontcourt more touches because right now, our backcourt-heavy offense makes us far too predictable.
Publix
July 9th, 2009
9:36 pm
We cannot wait until half of the eastern teams have All-Star teams. WE NEED A CENTER!
Trade JJ to Indiana for Hibbert and Dunleavy.
PG Bibby, Teague
SG Crawford, Dunleavy
SF Smith, Williams
PF Horford, Andersson
C Hibbert, Pachulia
We have Bibby, Crawford, Dunleavy who can earn their own shots. We are great on defense and rebounds, and blocks.
Sautee
July 9th, 2009
9:42 pm
nire, aj,
As I said I was “just askin’”
It’s an interesting question and some of it goes back to the eye test.
I mean if you watch SA at all you KNOW that TD is one of the most proficient in the league, but I have no idea where he stacks up % wise.
That said, I DO believe that we need a better balanced attack, with more frontcourt participation.
No argument there, eh?
Sautee
July 9th, 2009
9:43 pm
Nire,
allow me this time…….. Ding!
Anakin Joe
July 9th, 2009
9:43 pm
Sautee, none from me. I’d like nothing more than to see Crawford “pass first”. HA!
DP 4rm Hinesville
July 9th, 2009
9:43 pm
Hey Sekou,
Do the hawks have any interest in signing Garret Siler the Center from Agusta State?
I thought we were going to draft him but we went with a SG i never heard of instead.
MannyT
July 9th, 2009
9:44 pm
Samuel, Newkid–you know there is a Get Schooled blog on the AJC where they canniblog way meaner than you guys do. Makes me wonder how miserable some folks get when they burn out on a career. I’d take you guys on about the education stuff, but I’ll stick closer to the topic of sports. Their current blog is on that flex schedule topic.
http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/
As for that trend of people coming here, Bibby and Joe came via trades. Zaza (4 years ago) was the best free agent of note that we picked up in years. Joe was the closest to wanting to be here and that was more about him gettting out of Phoenix where he was kinda like Marvin is here (think about it.) The biggest statement that has been made aboujt being here is that guys that are here want to stay. We have not pulled a major free agent from the unrestricted ranks since the 1990s. No disrespect meant to Flip, Mo & RandMo, but look at when they came and how much competition there was to get them last year. Would some of this year’s angst be different if we had gotten the other big fella, Kwame Brown, last summer? Not that I am a fan, but that situation is more reflective of our lack of draw for most unrestricted fre agents in the past.
…and that’s another reason why Sekou is most likely spot on about Lamar Odum.
I think it will turn over time, but our next MLE deal will probably be the most notable of this century.
BWAF
niremetal
July 9th, 2009
9:45 pm
Sautee,
Definitely no argument there – and thanks for getting my back on that one! I’m still waiting for new batteries on my alarm
Anakin Joe
July 9th, 2009
9:45 pm
I honestly don’t know which was my favorite trade idea of the day… Josh Smith for Raja Bell and Diaw or Joe for Dunleavy and Hibbert? Man, tough choices. Maybe Sund could do both!
Anakin Joe
July 9th, 2009
9:48 pm
MannyT, how dare you forget the Speedy era. What’s wrong, not enough salt on your popcorn tonight?
Sautee
July 9th, 2009
9:51 pm
AJ
They both made me laugh out loud.
Anakin Joe
July 9th, 2009
9:54 pm
Sautee, since I like to offer up unsolicited opinions, I’m going with the Josh idea. We get someone who despised Woody in Diaw and yet another backcourt player (and an old one). I think that one wins the prize. At least we’re getting a center for Joe.
MannyT
July 9th, 2009
9:54 pm
niremetal, I’d say that stats work better in games that have more defined stopping points…baseball & football.
Because you can switch between offense and defense so quickly in basketball & hockey, the stats usually don’t do justice to the true contribution of a player. Additionally, we usually minimize the impact of defense when we judge players. Without looking it up, I am sure that the 10th best offensive player in the league gets far more appreciation/respect/consideration than the 10th best defensive player.
All that said, I do recall an interesting article about Shane Battier and the impact of his defensive contributions.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?_r=1&em&pagewanted=all
BWAF
Wabe
July 9th, 2009
9:55 pm
Hahahahahahaha!
Just heard that the dude that dunked on LeBron (Jordan Crawford) is Jamaal Crawford’s brother…
Wabe
July 9th, 2009
10:00 pm
And Rod,
I understand you dont think much of Marvin, but against bigger lineups, Marvin’s a better fit for the Hawks. Bibby’s not much more than a spot shooter – he doesn’t take much pressure off of JJ. Crawford should help in that regard.
I was trying to say that Marvin adds versatility because he allows us to throw a different style of lineup – we can go a bit bigger. Regardless of where his skill set is at this point, just his size (6′9 on the wing) will open up guys like Crawford and JJ.
Flip "Goon-Squad" Murray
July 9th, 2009
10:01 pm
It’s all good Mark, I’ll send u some free tickets sometime, I knoe you’re a fan. Done Deal.
Check tha tapes. It’s not “junk” it’s factual eveidence. Via Video. I’m the real Deal.
KevinA
July 9th, 2009
10:02 pm
A tough question is will Marvin be healthy and ready to go with improvement? Maybe somebody has a read on his recovery? If no, (Chills) we need to do something. Gooden may be had for 2.5. Not a bad back up plan. Who knows. Chills another great insurance policy.
MannyT
July 9th, 2009
10:05 pm
AJ–you got me as I did forget Claxton. My popcorn quotient always goes down in the summer.
As for your WLWT (We LOVE Woody Team)
Craig Claxton & Tony Delk at guards (backed up by Anthony Johnson, Salim Stoudamire & AC Law)
Forwards Boris Diaw & Shelden Williams (backed up by Chills?)
Center RandMo? (backed up by Solomon Jones?)
Once again a guard heavy rotation
BWAF
…with BK as the GM of course.
IEtaPiSorority
July 9th, 2009
10:07 pm
Yeeeahhh….Joe to the Pacers for Dunleavy and Hibbert?!
Worst f’in trade idea I’ve ever seen in my entire life.
niremetal
July 9th, 2009
10:11 pm
MannyT,
Yeah, saw that article when it came out. Lewis deserves a Pulitzer for that one. It provides a source for things that I’ve long thought about basketball statistics. My favorite line from it is still:
For most of its history basketball has measured not so much what is important as what is easy to measure — points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocked shots — and these measurements have warped perceptions of the game.
What that article doesn’t directly talk about is “the Battier effect.” There is one stat that matters in basketball – wins. And Battier seems to bring those to his team:
Grizzlies 2003-2004: 50-32
Grizzlies 2004-2005: 45-37
Grizzlies 2005-2006: 49-33
[Battier leaves]
Grizzlies 2006-2007: 22-60
Rockets 2005-2006: 34-48
[Battier arrives]
Rockets 2006-2007: 52-30
KevinA
July 9th, 2009
10:11 pm
JJ and Chills for Roy? Ok willing to lose Chills. Marvin and Chills for Roy? Chills is dumped. See I am willing to lose Chills.
MannyT
July 9th, 2009
10:13 pm
Wabe, I heard that the kid is Jamal’s bro this AM on ESPN First Take. I think he has been on a few different TV shows today.
Did a post on it, but it got sucked into awaiting moderation. Silly me for putting 2 links in that post. TSA must moderate this blog…2 links or more than 4 oz of luquid and you are out
Sekou, you need to ask Jamal why his little bro went to IU instead of UM initially. Now at Xavier thanks to Kelvin Sampson’s fiasco. Imagine how much trouble he’d get into with Twitter!
BWAF