Let’s make a deal
The original "King of Deals" (that's Monty Hall for all you mid-80s babies) must be proud of NBA general managers this summer, what with all action in free agency.
HAWKSVILLE - Is your head spinning?
Are you still trying to sort through all the dips, dives, twists and turns of this NBA free agent frenzy (which so far has lived up to that moniker in every sense of the word).
I know the Hawks haven’t gone crazy and done anything wildly splashy, much to the chagrin of some of you. But plenty of other teams seem happy to oblige the fantasy basketball bent in all of us.
Just reading about this four-team deal spearheaded by Dallas and Toronto to bring Shawn Marion to the Mavs and allow the Raptors to snag Hedo Turkoglu (among other benefits) should be enough to satisfy your thirst for pure craziness in the NBA summer.
Monty Hall should be hosting this stuff.
It’s a genius deal by all involved, if you ask me. It’s a just reward for the folks willing to dive into these deep, treacherous sign-and-trade waters and hook the big fish they were looking for. Who knows if it all works out the way the teams involved hope. That they are even willing to swan dive into a deal this complicated makes them winners in my book.
Yeah, I’ve campaigned for prudence around these parts in most instances, but I’m no NBA neo-conservative. I realize that in this day and age, as always, those who take the greatest risks stand to reap the greatest rewards.
That doesn’t mean the Hawks’ recent work to keep both Mike Bibby and Zaza Pachulia in the fold should be dismissed (and there’s nothing bubbling on the Marvin Williams front. Crickets on Flip Murray, too. And I suspect things will be relatively quiet around the Hawks for the next few days, no matter how many times someone tries to stoke the Amare Stoudemire-for-Josh Smith trade rumor that refuses to die). They are doing the business that good teams do in the summer. And that’s a welcome change from some of the puzzling and pulse-free summers of the Hawks’ recent past.
But if your thing is daring and dazzling trades and high-risk acquisitions, this is your time.
Since before draft night we’ve seen the Spurs remake themselves with the addition of Richard Jefferson and now Antonio McDyess. The Magic recharged themselves with Vince Carter. The champion Lakers stepped up the pace by acquiring Ron Artest. The Cavaliers grabbed Shaq. And the Celtics have added Rasheed Wallace. And those are just the major moves by the true title contenders.
Again, time will tell which moves worked and which moves were for not.
But in this day and age, simply making moves is enough to legitimize an operation. While it’s still a bit too early to judge, I’m wondering which move you think will be the best (not that I had to ask any of you to tell us what you think)?
I’ll admit, I can’t help but think the Spurs have shifted the balance of power in their favor, provided Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili return healthy and hungry this season. The Magic’s move might be underrated by some of us non-believers in the VC movement, but Ryan Anderson is legit and will help offset the loss of Turkoglu. Trading Artest for Trevor Ariza (which is what the Lakers accomplished by allowing Ariza to walk and sign with Houston did) improves the Lakers on paper, so perhaps they’ve done what was necessary to retain their championship aura. Then again, snagging Shaq usually means a greater chance at a title for his team, so maybe the Cavs have pushed themselves over the top …
What say you?
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
870 comments Add your comment
doc
July 9th, 2009
3:20 pm
honest that is a three foot ceiling for a 7 ft tall man. heh heh
good to see you around as always. lose your caps, too?
real#1hawksfan
July 9th, 2009
3:21 pm
Sekou, what time tonight do the summer league games start at Adamsville? What’s the admission if any?
Daniel
July 9th, 2009
3:23 pm
Kevin M. where have you seen or heard any of that stuff on David Anderson? All the scouting reports and play in the European league have indicated a sweet shooting, high b-ball IQ big man, with more rebounding than Okhur. Is the lack of defense based on being in Europe. Because, he is being compared to Gasol on his defensive ability. I am not trying to say he is Pau Gasol or Okhur, but those are the comparisons. If he is 60-70% those players are to have him coming of the bench at 2 milion a year is a great deal for the Hawks.
Chris M
July 9th, 2009
3:23 pm
RA, I so agree that Woodson only has a short period to prove he can do so. And I also agree that he has been unable to be flexible to this point and coach up to their strengths. My only concern is why are we waiting when we can get a new coach (Avery Johnson) who can coach these young guys before they become old guys. He has not done it yet so why would he do it now?
Again thanks for being a voice of reason. If I was on MB’s blog you could talk some sense to his lack of knowledge on this subject!
GeeMack
July 9th, 2009
3:23 pm
RA
I don’t care how well Woody coaches he can’t beat the 3 Elite Eastern teams with this roster. Woody has done a good job with the hand he’s been dealt. Is he PJax? No! However he has coached a bunch of young inexperince player into a playoff team. The Hawks owe Woody the luxury of getting better talent in here to coach, like the Celtics did for Doc. I like some of the players we have in place, but we are missing that one superstar to take us over the hump. This is why passing on CP3 was huge it sets us back years. (CP3 Josh & JJ) would beat any team currently in the East or West.
Sekou Smith
July 9th, 2009
3:30 pm
6:30 and 8 real#1 and there was no charge Tuesday night.
real#1hawksfan
July 9th, 2009
3:39 pm
Appreciate it Sekou
Anakin Joe
July 9th, 2009
3:40 pm
RA, if after 20 games (a 4th of the season) the Hawks have something like a 12-8 record and several key players are not being properly utilized, do you fire Woody? Player utilization is about winning games not creating All-Stars or ESPN highlights for individual players. If Sund continues down the path of essentially reuniting the band, there isn’t much reason to expect anything less (or sadly, more) than another 45+ win season.
Daniel
July 9th, 2009
3:43 pm
Anakin Joe- Why do you think that the addition of Crawford, with the retention and development of our young nucleus, plus (hopefully) an additional front court big for the bench is the same as last season?
Quit whining
real#1hawksfan
July 9th, 2009
3:44 pm
Real talk G-Mack, please dont bring up CP3 I get sick to my stomach every time I hear his name or see him play just thinking of WHAT SHOULD BE!
KevinA
July 9th, 2009
3:51 pm
Is the back problem a real deal or speculation. Anybody know? Chills vrs. Crawford to fill in Marvins minutes is a no brainer. Chills would be much better at the 3. Like Crawford, Chills can play the 1 and 2.
Crawford FG% is close to .400, Chills FG% is over .500. I know folks say stats can be read to say anything. I am not sure how you read around this stat. And yes, Chills is better than Flip and Evans. For the money they are exellent though.
I read all over the web about the lack of defense of Crawford. Woody played Chills in front of Marvin at crunch time because of his overall defense and rebounding.
CP – still at it.
Samuel
July 9th, 2009
3:54 pm
WOW,
One of my longtime nemesis honest “underscore” abe returns from the dead.
You know I have actually never been a huge Vince Carter fan and I don’t really know how we got on this back and forth about him being a Hall of Famer. So I went and checked his stats and WOW.
Sometimes we have certain opinions about this and that (I used to not like Larry Bird until I knew better) but if stats don’t lie, I don’t see how you can say that VC is not one of the greatest of all time. Some of his highlights:
The man has made the Allstar Game 8 of 11 seasons.
The man has a 23.5 ppg average over his entire career
The man has averaged, I said averaged 37.7 minutes per game over 11 seasons and played every single game(82) twice.
The man has started 770 of 777 games
The man once made “9″ 3’s in one game.
There are guys in the Hall of Fame with far lesser stats but VC not only has the stats but is one of the most entertaining players of all time and is as responsible as anybody for the current popularity of Basketball Worldwide.
VC=HOF
Steve Brown
July 9th, 2009
4:04 pm
Seemed to me Flip Murray made an important contribution to winning. Josh Smith has not shown me that he is a winner, do you really want the ball in his hands down the stretch. Childress was a major problem for Boston when we took them to 7. I would take Murray & Childress for Crawford and Smith (assuming I got legit size for Smith) and beat your brains in.
terrell barron
July 9th, 2009
4:07 pm
Where does Marion fit in with the Mavs? Did they move Howard or something? If not, I dont understand the move. Dallas was already set at the 3 and the 4 spot.
terrell barron
July 9th, 2009
4:09 pm
Hey guys, who would you rather have, Woody or John Kuester? lol!!
Samuel
July 9th, 2009
4:14 pm
Hey Ando,
What’s the over/under on Mr. Kuester making it through the Allstar Break?
Challege for the 4th Spot. Please!!!!
real#1hawksfan
July 9th, 2009
4:16 pm
VC may have “HOF stats” but u and i know that him and his cuz T-Mac are soft as Charmin dog. Wouldn’t want him on my team.
Anakin Joe
July 9th, 2009
4:22 pm
Daniel, I was suggesting that Woody and the Hawks should repeat with another successful season… how is that whining? Or would you consider 47 wins an unsuccessful year?
Anakin Joe
July 9th, 2009
4:27 pm
Evidently, Kuester and Woody were both on the Pistons staff during their championship run.
TB, at the end of games, you will likely see Dirk, Howard, JT and Kidd on the floor together with either Matrix or Gortat as the fifth guy (depending on the match-up). But Josh Howard won’t likely lose any meaningful time to Marion.
doc
July 9th, 2009
4:34 pm
samuel if you keep that up i can get a group of donations to send you to oralndo .. to stay.
take that sheeat out of here. i hope you arent on the magic train now, are you?
O'Brien
July 9th, 2009
4:36 pm
tb,
I read somewhere that the Mavs will consider playing Marion at the 3, and Josh Howard at the 2.
AJ,
I agree. I expect progress (more regular season wins), and a better showing in the playoffs. The players should all be better this year, and Woody should be a better coach this season as well. Our bench should be better, and JJ wont play as many minutes.
Kuester is a career assistant, and also coached with Woody on the Larry Brown (Pistons) championship. He was given credit for the Cavs regular season offense (although in the playoffs they reverted to iso LeBron too much). It will be interesting to see how Kuester’s first year goes. The Pistons (at the very least) should compete for a playoff spot, and offensively, they have Ben Gordon, Charlie V, and Rip. I am curious to see how Kuester’s offense will look (all Woody knows is iso-JJ).
KevinA
July 9th, 2009
4:38 pm
Will Woody play Teague 4-6 minitues at the beginning of games and halfs like he did with Royeal Ivey?
Samuel
July 9th, 2009
4:52 pm
Not really doc but I hate a “hater”. As I said earlier, I can’t really see how this VC’s acquisition can go anywhere but down since the only way the Magic can improve is win a ring. It’s really all about DHoward improving his offensive skills. Vince will get his.
You know me, I’m a Hawks, Shaq and Mississippi Man all the way. I’m pulling for the Hawks, I’m pulling for Shaq and any team that “MY BOYS” Monta Ellis and Al Jefferson play for. However, if the Magic sign “MY BOY”, Courtney Fells, I will love them too. Although, he’s not exactly tearing up the summer leagues but hopefully he can stick somewhere.
On a lighter note, Big Ups to the Georgia Legislature for passing that law today where schools can cut the year from 180 to 160 days. Hopefully, my district will jump all over that.
More Fishing Baby!!!!
KevinA
July 9th, 2009
4:54 pm
Does Woody send out coaches to make sure the starters are getting (550 per day) free throw practice?
Josh and ZaZa (550) 15′ – 18′ Set shots?
What about West. Seems to me this would be a good year to learn to shoot if he wants a job.
JJ – shoot, drive or pass – no more dribble.
Al and Josh, Work on footwork for blocking out.
Marvin – driving footwork, develope a floater.
Al – one more good post move.
Bibby – lose a few pounds and get quicker.
ZaZa – need a post move
Chills – your perfect – just get signed.
welcome to the A
July 9th, 2009
4:55 pm
we need to sign marvin. marvin, zaza, j-smooth, and hortford still have their best hoops ahead of them. with joe and jamal we are solid. bibby and flip are good vets. now if we have to sign flip and get a vet center/forword. plus we have teague and we need to sign the 7′0 from d2 power augusta state to be are 3rd center option. go hawks! it only took 10yrs to get it back after all the fans and 790 idiots like steak cried that we won 50games a year and we needed to do something. well we did something…..and 10yrs later
Dennis
July 9th, 2009
4:58 pm
Celtics will be lock-down with addition of ‘Sheed. Defense won it for them in ‘08. If they Grant Hill, an underrated defender, they’ll be even tougher. Their issue will be back-up point guard. Eddie House is a good shooter at times, but he’s not Rondo. I think Hudson’s going to be a player for them.
That being said, gotta think the Hawks, with Crawford coming on board, are really going to be tough. No doubling on JJ or he’ll kick it out. They needed another legit scorer, and he’s it no matter where’s been. Let’s hope Woody doesn’t bury Teague like he did Acie. Bibby should help with that.
Should be a great seaon next year!!
The Truth
July 9th, 2009
5:03 pm
Here’s another interesting tidbit. I previously wrote per my last comment that Crawford and Flip have the same scoring rate per game of .5 points per minute. Assuming Woody gives Teague the same minutes per as AC Law of 10 minutes per game. If Teague is as good as hyped and his scoring rate is equally as good as Crawford and Flip, then at 10 minutes per game, he will only average 5 points per game for the entire year. Compare that with AC Law yearly average of 2.8 points per game, it means we would have upgraded with Teague by roughly 2 points per game for the year. This is assuming his game is off-the-chart for a rookie with that scoring rate; but who knows; maybe the 2 additional points per game maybe the difference between winning and losing those games.
The point of this exercise is to show that maybe we should lower our expectation of Teague if Woody is only playing him 10 minutes a game. Since Woody will be coaching scared again, don’t think for a minute that he will change his stripes.
Hoops
July 9th, 2009
5:05 pm
Here we are right now:
PG-Bibby, Teague
SG-JJ, Crawford
SF-Evans
PF-Josh
C-Horford, Zaza, Morris
That’s 9 players We must sign 13. We need 4 more-1 combo guard, 1 small forward, 1 power forward, & 1 center.
Combo guard-Get Flip for the bi-annual or Chills
Small forward-Get Marvin or Chills
Power forward-Andersen would be cheap
Center-can’t afford a good one without making a trade.
Chills or Marvin have to be traded if we want to compete for the Finals! If Chills would stay with the Hawks, he can play many positions and could eliminate the need to sign Flip. That money could go to get a better BIG! Then we could look @ a difference maker(maybe a starter) instead of someone to back up Horford and Zaza! Crap, Morris can back up Horford and Zaza!
Keeping Chills(I know he has said he does not want to play here, but trading Marvin would make him a starter. Maybe he goes for that!)would allow us to get a starting center and allow Horford and Josh to play PF. Josh then could play a little at SF when needed.
Anakin Joe
July 9th, 2009
5:05 pm
Samuel, you forgot to include Jackie Butler in your list.
Stinger
July 9th, 2009
5:08 pm
matt (atl)
John:Please answer!!!!!How does a childress for Bowen sign and trade make any sense for the Hawks? Bowen’s offense was never very good and considering he is about 100 years-old, he is barely more helpful than Bibby on defense.
John Hollinger
I left out the part about a protected first-round pick; that would be the Hawks’ incentive to participate. Bowen’s contract is only partially guaranteed and Hawks would waive him in this scenario.
I also like S/T to Cleveland for Expiring Contract & Hickson
LeBron James
July 9th, 2009
5:08 pm
That Jordan Crawford guy gives me nightmares!
*shaking*
Glenn
July 9th, 2009
5:08 pm
Why are so many of you so intent on trading Josh Smith?
Josh is young, improving his game every year, and is one of the most exciting players in the League. And as someone else pointed out, right now, the Hawks Defense is much better when Josh is on the Court than when he’s sitting on the bench.
I would agree with some of the other posters in that right now, what the Hawks need is another bruiser in the middle so that Horford has a chance to play some of his natural position, especially when Josh gets into foul trouble or needs a blow. This will keep an athletic guy on the Court and, hopefully, give the Hawks more options when they come up against the Dwight Howard’s of the world.
KevinA
July 9th, 2009
5:12 pm
Never under estimate a contract year. I predict more Iso Joe and passing at the last sec. Will Crawford or Bibby be (man) enough to play team ball? Can we find an offense that drives the ball and ends up with the rebounders under the basket? I hear Crawford is a lousy finisher – that could still work if Al and Josh are in position.
Samuel
July 9th, 2009
5:17 pm
Just checked out some stats of Hall of Famers. Bill Bradley averaged 12ppg, Joe Dumars averaged 16ppg, James Worthy 17ppg,Dave Debusschere averaged 16ppg, Drazen Petrovic played 4 seasons.
I know that scoring is not the only thing but there’s not way you justify putting guys like that in without considering a career 24ppg scorer. Other names that I would argue that VC is arguably better than are:
Alex English, Dan Issel, Adrian Dantly. Usually, each era (approx 10 years) has a group of 10-15 players chosen. I guess VC would fall into the era between 1999-2009. So of this era, who would be your 10-15 all time players to be chosen. Very interesting question.
jhan
July 9th, 2009
5:18 pm
AJ – those combos are a toss-up for me also. I would like to have Battie in our big rotation because he does have some skills. I think Crawford has more value around the league then the Flip/Battie combo if we were looking to make a trade at some point. I wouldn’t be suprised if we signed Flip again at a bargain basement price. Sund seems to be on a little roll right now so let’s keep it going.
I’m suprised you discount the “organic growth” of our young players Astro. You have beaten that drum in the past & I’ve actually grown to agree with that concept.
Samuel
July 9th, 2009
5:21 pm
AJ. Don’t remind me. I think dude is gathering buggies at Walmart or something. Tremendous waste of talent. Dude was the only player I ever seen go man up with Jefferson on the blocks in Highschool. Maybe LB can scoop him up in Charlotte.
Dang!!, Jackie “The Iceman” Butler.
KevinA
July 9th, 2009
5:22 pm
Josh, Marvin, Chills, Al, ZaZa are all young and are the future. I don’t know how we can pass on any of them. A year from now? We’ll see. Got to hang with these kids till we find out. Lets hope Teague will add to this list. All these guys play unselfish and good team ball. Think of Bibby and JJ as the players who will pass the future to these kids.
Wabe
July 9th, 2009
5:23 pm
Ken, to answer your question,
Big Ray hits this on the head. Everybody naturally has and will continue to judge this guy based on his draft position. I personally am guilty of this at times myself. However, I still feel he’s an asset to the team. It wouldn’t be easy replacing a 6′9 wingman who naturally fits into the 3 spot. He’s honestly one of the better facegaurd defenders on this roster, and has gotten better year in and year out. If the guy weren’t as injury prone, I would say signing him long-term would be a no-brainer. I would still consider signing him long term seeing how the salary cap will shrink as of next year – and if teams miss out on getting one of the biggie FA’s – a guy like Marvin could end up on many team’s radars.
Personally, the man brings versatility to the Hawks. He poses mismatches, and has the ability to take some pressure off of JJ. Wouldn’t mind seeing the Hawks throw JJ, Crawford, and Marvin out on the floor occasionally. I think that backcourt has the potential to pose some major problems for defenses.
But then again, what do i know…
WCJ
July 9th, 2009
5:29 pm
What free agents do the hawks have they eye on that are left? What is the hawks salary cap space AND can they make a deal to counter what the cavs, celtics, and magic have done?
Flip "Goon-Squad" Murray
July 9th, 2009
5:34 pm
Y’all Calm Down. Rick knows whats up. I’ll be back. I’mma let tha Rook get his time, but when the Hawks get into trouble i’ll be there for the rescue. Holla.
fudd21
July 9th, 2009
5:35 pm
KevinA, what is up with you and Crawford. The man hasn’t even played 1 game yet and you are trying to get rid of him. Crawford walks in the Hawks camp from day 1 and is the 2nd best offensive player we have behind only JJ and IMO it’s not even close. For the first time since JJ has been here we have a legitimate 2nd scoring option which will provide 2 things. 1) it will allow JJ to not have to play so many minutes and 2) when they’re on the court together some of the double teams should cease. Crawford is a legit scoring option that will get the respect of opposing teams defense. Crawford can carry this team offensively like no one else on this roster can.
Lastly comparing his FG% to that of Chillz is comparing apples to oranges. I like Chillz and have come to the realization that he probably isn’t coming back (YOU SHOULD TOO!) but what do you expect Chillz to shoot when 90% of his shots are put backs, lay ins and dunks? I’m just saying.
Flip "Goon-Squad" Murray
July 9th, 2009
5:39 pm
Talked to some Golden State fans and they let me know that Crawford is extra-streaky son. We all know Bibby and Joe go cold from time to time too. Imma have to bail these cats out on the rugular next season ya digg. Done Deal.
ldawg121
July 9th, 2009
5:42 pm
I’ll be the first to admit i’m not an avid nba fan, and therefore probably out of my depth here.But how about this? Marvin Williams and the rights to Josh Childress for Amare Stoudimire. Starting lineup would be
C Amare Stoudimire
PF Al Hortford
SF Josh Smith
PG Mike Bibby
SG Joe Johnson
Sixth Man Jamal Crawford
niremetal
July 9th, 2009
5:43 pm
WCJ,
Why doesn’t trading two players who never got off the bench in exchange for Jamal Crawford count?
SB
July 9th, 2009
5:46 pm
Flip…….. Crawford does something Joe and Bibby don’t , He attacks the rim. Flip is also very streaky, most NBA players are these days,
niremetal
July 9th, 2009
5:46 pm
ldawg121,
You obviously are new, because people on this blog have already explained the reasons why that’s nearly impossible at least twice on every blog for the past few weeks. I figure it’s a more efficient use of everyone else’s time if you go back and search for the term “BYC” in prior posts on this blog rather than making one of us have to right it all out again.
Wabe
July 9th, 2009
5:47 pm
6 years/50 million for Vareajo…
WoW.
niremetal
July 9th, 2009
5:47 pm
*write it out. Here’s the one sentence reason: Such a trade would violate about a half-dozen NBA salary cap rules.
Flip "Goon-Squad" Murray
July 9th, 2009
5:50 pm
SB, When was he last time Crawford dunked the basketball in a game??? Exaaactly. Nobody takes it as hard a ya boi does to tha rack. Done Deal.
Imma holla at y’all later though. Gotta answer some of my fan mail.
F(Dot) Murray….OUT
Najeh Davenpoop
July 9th, 2009
5:51 pm
The Varejao deal is a real head-scratcher… he’s really just a taller and more athletic Zaza. I just hope this doesn’t affect Marvin’s contract demands.