Let’s make a deal
The original "King of Deals" (that's Monty Hall for all you mid-80s babies) must be proud of NBA general managers this summer, what with all action in free agency.
HAWKSVILLE - Is your head spinning?
Are you still trying to sort through all the dips, dives, twists and turns of this NBA free agent frenzy (which so far has lived up to that moniker in every sense of the word).
I know the Hawks haven’t gone crazy and done anything wildly splashy, much to the chagrin of some of you. But plenty of other teams seem happy to oblige the fantasy basketball bent in all of us.
Just reading about this four-team deal spearheaded by Dallas and Toronto to bring Shawn Marion to the Mavs and allow the Raptors to snag Hedo Turkoglu (among other benefits) should be enough to satisfy your thirst for pure craziness in the NBA summer.
Monty Hall should be hosting this stuff.
It’s a genius deal by all involved, if you ask me. It’s a just reward for the folks willing to dive into these deep, treacherous sign-and-trade waters and hook the big fish they were looking for. Who knows if it all works out the way the teams involved hope. That they are even willing to swan dive into a deal this complicated makes them winners in my book.
Yeah, I’ve campaigned for prudence around these parts in most instances, but I’m no NBA neo-conservative. I realize that in this day and age, as always, those who take the greatest risks stand to reap the greatest rewards.
That doesn’t mean the Hawks’ recent work to keep both Mike Bibby and Zaza Pachulia in the fold should be dismissed (and there’s nothing bubbling on the Marvin Williams front. Crickets on Flip Murray, too. And I suspect things will be relatively quiet around the Hawks for the next few days, no matter how many times someone tries to stoke the Amare Stoudemire-for-Josh Smith trade rumor that refuses to die). They are doing the business that good teams do in the summer. And that’s a welcome change from some of the puzzling and pulse-free summers of the Hawks’ recent past.
But if your thing is daring and dazzling trades and high-risk acquisitions, this is your time.
Since before draft night we’ve seen the Spurs remake themselves with the addition of Richard Jefferson and now Antonio McDyess. The Magic recharged themselves with Vince Carter. The champion Lakers stepped up the pace by acquiring Ron Artest. The Cavaliers grabbed Shaq. And the Celtics have added Rasheed Wallace. And those are just the major moves by the true title contenders.
Again, time will tell which moves worked and which moves were for not.
But in this day and age, simply making moves is enough to legitimize an operation. While it’s still a bit too early to judge, I’m wondering which move you think will be the best (not that I had to ask any of you to tell us what you think)?
I’ll admit, I can’t help but think the Spurs have shifted the balance of power in their favor, provided Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili return healthy and hungry this season. The Magic’s move might be underrated by some of us non-believers in the VC movement, but Ryan Anderson is legit and will help offset the loss of Turkoglu. Trading Artest for Trevor Ariza (which is what the Lakers accomplished by allowing Ariza to walk and sign with Houston did) improves the Lakers on paper, so perhaps they’ve done what was necessary to retain their championship aura. Then again, snagging Shaq usually means a greater chance at a title for his team, so maybe the Cavs have pushed themselves over the top …
What say you?
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870 comments Add your comment
GeeMack
July 9th, 2009
11:19 am
I think the Spurs have had the best off season to this point (Jefferson Blair and McDyess) and you did not give up your core that sweet. I think the lakers solved their toughness issue with the Artest signing. With or without Lamar I think they can beat Boston SA, Clev, & Orl. The Wizarda had a great offseason as well picking up MMiller and Foye.
The Hawks did enough to stay in the Hunt for the 4th 5th or 6th seed in the East. I think the ceiling for this group of Hawks is 52 games and a 1st round Playoff exit, or 2nd round sweep.
If the Hwaks make the playoffs 5 years in a row. Then we will be ready to try and win a title.
Sekou Smith
July 9th, 2009
11:24 am
icalhoun,
I don’t think it matters if Gortat is better or who produces more. That’s not how free agency works (see the monster deals snagged by the likes of Varejao and Bargnani). And no, I’m not worried about a logjam at the 1. Teams carry three point guards. It’s not uncommon. Plus, all three of the Hawks’ PGs can play effectively off the ball (they can shoot), so it’s not as big an issue to me.
rainman, I don’t know and I don’t know. “Fair compensation” is a subjective phrase. What I think might be fair might not seem fair to anyone else. It’s about what matches, salary wise. No one cares about anything being fair.
RA
July 9th, 2009
11:25 am
I’m sorry GeeMack, but those aren’t viable options. 52 wins is acceptable, but this team is much better than a first rouind exit or a 2nd round sweep if it stays healthy. To conclude this season as such would be nothing less than abject failure.
Wabe
July 9th, 2009
11:27 am
!!!!!!!!!!! P L E A S E !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
STOP THE DAMN AMARE TRADE FANTASY’S!
IT’LL NEVER HAPPEN!
AND IM NOT SURE IF I EVEN WANT SOME OF THOSE OFFERS THAT YALL ARE FANTASIZING ABOUT TO GO THROUGH!
Samuel
July 9th, 2009
11:27 am
It’s funny how people see or read something and just take off with it. How is Shaq gonna “CLOG THE MIDDLE”. Matter of fact he’ll open up lanes because he requires a double and is a great passer.
He was not the problem in PHX. Amare was having his best season before he got hurt. They just didn’t have anymore slashers to replace him when he went down, but Shaq was not the problem.
Did he clog the middle for DWade? Give me a break.
Anakin Joe
July 9th, 2009
11:30 am
MannyT, I agree. Parker is a very nice pick-up, for guarding Vince, Ray Allen and Joe. Seems like teams are working there way down the FA pecking order. Another few days and we may start seeing guys like Rodney Carney, Frye and Joe Smith get snatched up.
darrell starks
July 9th, 2009
11:31 am
2009 ATLANTA HAWKS
STARTERS BIBBY, JOE, MARVIN, JOSH, AMAR’E
BENCH TEAGUE, JAMAL, MOE, WILCOX, ZAZA,
RESERVE WEST, SOLO,
PAYROLL 76MILL
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
terrell barron
July 9th, 2009
11:32 am
Obrien, why do you think we drafted Teague, to play center? What do you mean, we need another pg?
MannyT
July 9th, 2009
11:32 am
Isn’t fair compensation anything that all sides can agree to do within the bounds of the legal system?
AGTFan
July 9th, 2009
11:35 am
Let’s see. The Hawks quickly resign Zaza and Bibby. The Thrashers make good free agent moves. If this keeps up, we might not be able to call Alanta Spirit Group the laughing stock of sports.
niremetal
July 9th, 2009
11:35 am
Wabe,
Give it up. The idiots will never listen.
Cameron
July 9th, 2009
11:39 am
I still think it doesn’t matter who we get, if Woodson doesnt like them and doesn’t play to the player’s strengths, we will never make it to the title. I love our team, for the past few years we have had some awesome players and the only reason we have gotten better is because they have grown older and gotten better, not because Woody has done anything. Woodson’s coaching is like having a muscle car with about 6 catalytic converters and some governors on it bogging it down! Get a new coach and have a higher ceiling!
Mitch
July 9th, 2009
11:41 am
I have a feeling the Hawks are going to make a trade of some sort. What do you think, Sekou?
By next Wednesday we will know whether Josh Childress is going back to Greece, or not.
While I would be more excited if the Hawks were able to sign Chills and bring him back to the already improved squad, perhaps they can get the banger and inside defender they need to bolster the frontcourt.
Sekou: what about Chris Wilcox…and interest from the Hawks in him? He would seem ideal, and as ESPN’s Chad Ford reported today (The Remainning Free Agents) his projected salary would be in the $2-4M range…not bad, huh?
Hawk n the Ham
July 9th, 2009
11:47 am
Sekou…….
What is the status of Big Baby Davis? What would be the possibility of the Hawks offering Davis to help fill the gap of depth for big men?
Sekou Smith
July 9th, 2009
11:47 am
Could be Mitch? I love Wilcox’s game. He’s a straight banger, which is what the Hawks need. I don’t care if a dude is 7-foot or not. I just need him to play like a monster.
Sekou Smith
July 9th, 2009
11:49 am
I think Big Baby is too expensive.
swatguy
July 9th, 2009
11:50 am
S&T Chillz to Milwaukee for Amir johnson and their #1. Sent that #1 with Marvin, Mo our ‘10 #1 to Pheonix for Amare.
Johnny Hazeltine
July 9th, 2009
11:50 am
I don’t think the Hawks’ ownership will approve the Hawks surpassing the luxury tax. Therefore, I think it’s time to start getting used to the idea that Marvin Williams will never wear a Hawks jersey, again.
Mike
July 9th, 2009
11:57 am
I agree about Wilcox. I also like Brandon Bass. I don’t like Glenn Davis as much for the Hawks, as (a) he will cost more, and (b) the Hawks need someone more athletic to match their style of play.
Ken Strickland
July 9th, 2009
11:58 am
This time last yr, Philly made a big splash by signing EBrand to a huge FA contract. Right off the bat, some of you proclaimed them a much better team and another reason the Hawks would fail to make the playoffs again. I definitely remember our friend ANDO being among that number because I addressed him directly about it. I feel, as I felt then, that adding a dynamic player to an existing starting lineup can set a team back by creating chemistry and adjustment issues. I call that the PHILLY FACTOR, and it can end up playing a major roll in Orlando and Cleveland’s seasons with the additions of VCarter and Shaq.
If Shaq starts, it means one of their starters will have to be benched. If it’s Ilgouskas, it will make them bigger and stronger inside, but will reduce their ability to score outside. Shaq’s inside presence will also reduce their ability to attack the basket like the did so successfully last yr. It will also make them slower, and Shaq is even worse at playing the pick and roll than Ilgouskas. Orlando consistently and effectively exploited that weakness in eliminating Cleveland from the playoffs. His presence could definitely cause Cleveland to suffer from the PHILLY EFFECT.
Losing Turkouglu will have a major impact oN their OFF. He was their PF/PF(point forward), OFF facilitator, outside shooter, especially from 3pt range, and their biggest matchup advantage. VCarter can’t replace any of those attributes. Also, adding Vince and losing Turkouglu will require them to start 2 new players, and that could create the PHILLY EFFECT. Also, losing Gortat, their very effective backup center, will put additional pressure on DHoward.
The fact we’ll have our top 6 players returning could end up being one of our biggest assets. Adding Teague and Crawford gives us the improved speed, quickness, outside shooting, penetrating ability, DEF(ability to pressure the ball at the point) and PG/SG depth we’ve lacked off the bench
Here’s why it doesn’t make much sense to resign Flip. First, with Crawford and Teague needing mins, there’s no way he can repeat the 24+ mins per gm he averaged last yr. Trying to divide mins for 3 players that basically perform the same needs will reduce the overall effectiveness of all 3. It would also put Woodson in a position of having to do something he’s proven unable or unwilling to do, and that’s effectively manage more than 3 players off the bench, along with their mins. Although Flip did a very good job off the bench, I believe some issues developed between he, Woodson and some of his teammates. Down the stretch, Flip tried to become a one man OFF and hogged the ball an awful lot.
OVERALL, IF WE GET OFF TO A STRONG START AND AVOID FATIGUE ISSUES THE 2ND HALF OF THE SEASON, I CAN SEE US OVERTAKING ORLANDO FOR THE 3ND SEED.
Mike
July 9th, 2009
11:59 am
Will everyone please stop about Amare? For one thing, if he were so great he would already have been traded, as Phoenix has certainly been trying. He’s not a team player, he plays no defense, and he wants an extension for MAX money. He’s an amazing athlete, but not a max-money player.
Chris
July 9th, 2009
11:59 am
I don’t understand the upgrade with getting Amar’e to replace Josh? Josh is less injury prone, and other than that both are pretty dominating around the basket, but Josh is far more athletic. Not to mention he was about the only person, other than ZaZa, who stepped up in the playoffs last year, meanwhile Amare watched from his seat at home. I think the guy is a system player who benefits greatly from having Steve Nash get him the ball near the basket. Not interested in trading the Smoove Highlight Reel for anything. Another thing to mention, have you seen the Hawks play defense without Josh Smith’s shot blocking ability present? It’s abismal. We need Josh defensively more than offensively.
HawksFanSince82
July 9th, 2009
12:01 pm
I think it is essiential that the hawks find a quality starting C to go in the middle. For that would ease the tension on our front line by freeing them to all play their natural positions. I feel waiting to see what the market does for Marvin is not a bad idea. But in the meantime we should contact a fluttering team like the Clippers and look at picking up somebody that only one person has mentioned so far Marcus Camby. I think he would be the perfect on ball defender for the C position. Or like i heard before putting together a sign and trade with an truley expendable piece like Chilldress to Millwakee witch is looking at him anyway, for somebody like Gadjurich. Sounds like a plan to me.
Meidzo in Decatur
July 9th, 2009
12:04 pm
OK guys we brought Bibby back (and hope that Teague steals many of his minutes)!
I read between the lines in Rick Sunds interviews and he has NEVER spoken as enthusiastically about Marvin as Woody has (and Marvin did not meet the goals Woody set for him prior to last year).
Thorton and Camby would be a huge net gain because Camby’s defense would make up for the difference between Thorton and Marvin’s defense.
Thorton is a more agressive offensive player.
I also think that Travis Outlaw is a better more complete option, and if we could do a Sign and Trade with Marvin and Chills or Marvin/Anybody for Outlaw and Channing Frye.
Any thoughts?
Nire….would this work?
darrell starks
July 9th, 2009
12:06 pm
CHRI I AGRRE WITH YOU 100PERCENT but we have people on the blog who feel like they no every thing and dont no jack.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
GeeMack
July 9th, 2009
12:09 pm
RA
I just can’t see a team with a mid-level All star as their leader making any real noise in the playoffs.
Offensively & Defensively the Hawks are inferior to Bos, Cle, & Orl. However if JSmoove developes into a 22ppg, 11reb, 5ast & 2bpg per game player we will have a legit budding superstar to run with JJ.
terrell barron
July 9th, 2009
12:11 pm
Samuel, Vince Carter a HOFamer? Wow! You must be talking about the Slam Dunk HOFame?
terrell barron
July 9th, 2009
12:13 pm
Vince Carter is no where near Dominique. And look how long it took him tho get in.
darrell starks
July 9th, 2009
12:16 pm
The only thing i might disagree with is about amar’e the guy has been a dominant player from high school straight to the pro’s from day 1,if you bring amar’e to the hawks he will be the best player on the team plus you will have a guy who is in the prime of his career who will lead the hawks and be a leader.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Melvin
July 9th, 2009
12:17 pm
50 mil for Varejo and Bargnani. What recession? My goodness, what in the heck will Marvin ask for…
A Tribe Called Quest
July 9th, 2009
12:19 pm
The Hawks are not getting Al Thornton. Have you people not seen the guy play? He’s probably going to be as good as Joe Johnson by 2011
O'Brien
July 9th, 2009
12:25 pm
tb,
If Bibby gets hurt, we would be forced to play Teague major minutes (I dont know if he is ready). If Bibby gets hurt, we have 96 minutes in the backcourt to share between JJ, Crawford, and Teague. Do we really want to play JJ 35 minutes, Crawford 35 minutes, and Teague 26 minutes? I dont think so.
Again, my point is we need a 3rd guard to protect ourselves against injury (not to take away from Teague’s minutes).
Meidzo in Decatur
July 9th, 2009
12:25 pm
The Varejo signing was terrible, he is one of those valuable guys during the regular season (energy, hustle etc.), but in the playoffs a guy who couldn’t score 10 pts if you locked him in the Gym overnight becomes an accessory not a necessity!
They still keep score by points and having a player that can be cheated off of on every possesion complicates “down the stretch” offensive sets!
darrell starks
July 9th, 2009
12:26 pm
Amar’e career avg 21 ppg 8.9 rebounds 54.1 fg awesome.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
Fred
July 9th, 2009
12:41 pm
This is what I would love our team to be:
PG Bibby
SG Johnson
SF Evans
PF Smith
C Hortford
PG Teague
SG J Crawford
SF Childress
C Zaza
and Flip and West
terrell barron
July 9th, 2009
12:42 pm
Obrien, I’m shocked you think we still need another backcourt player. But whatever.
terrell barron
July 9th, 2009
12:48 pm
Verajo got 6 yrs 50 mill? I think Marvin would be better off if he just played out the year, and became unrestricted next year. They better sign him now, before he has time to think about it. lol!!
The Truth
July 9th, 2009
12:50 pm
I think Toronto got much better with the acquisition of Reggie Evans and Hedo. They were ranked 21st on team defense and 16th on team offense. Evans will raise their defensive ranking and Hedo will raise the offensive ranking. Assuming Bosh stays put, their will likely make the playoff perhaps for the 6th to 5th seed.
Detroit got better offensively by adding Gordon and Charlie V. They were already a 7th seed playoff team. They could challenge us for the 4th seed.
While these teams addressed specific needs with their acquisition, the Hawks only acquisition in Crawford (so far) seem to be based on opportunity instead of filling specific needs. Case in point; the acquisition of Crawford, though it is electrifying, may address some offense needs but how much is debatable. I say that because assuming Flip is not resigned, you would think Crawford scoring average of 19.7 PPG vs. Flip average of 12.2 PPG would be an upgrade. But looking closer, is it really? Crawford 19.7 PPG is based on 38 MPG which equals .5 points per minutes. Flip 12.2 PPG is based on 24.4 PPG which also equals .5 points per minutes as well. So, the impact of Crawford and Flip is exactly the same given the same minutes of playing time. Based on these stat numbers, by replacing Crawford with Flip would not yield any significant upgrade. However, if you add Crawford with Flip then we would enhance our overall scoring output and offense consistencies. The Hawks were already ranked 19th in team offense. So we could have a higher offensive ranking with both based on these stat numbers. However, the biggest need for the Hawks is team defense. We were ranked 23rd out 30, very close to the bottom. Though Woody loves to preach team defense, so far, it hasn’t translated. Our tweener frontline and Bibby defense reliability may have something to do with that. Adding Crawford may help with the Bibby part but the tweener frontline issues have not addressed so far.
So while we are excited about Sund’s handling of our FA so far, we still have much work to do to address our needs.
RA
July 9th, 2009
12:57 pm
GeeMack. we don’t have to beat up on the big three to get home court in the first round, we just have to hold our own. Also, and this fact cannot be underestimated, the Hawks have some guys that COULD become superstar talents next year. Horford, Williams, and Smith could all become 20 pt a night players. Now, I’m not going to go out on a limb and say that they will, but I wouldn’t bet against them. In any case the Hawks have the talent to make noise if Woody can manage the pieces. That, is the question.
Ken Strickland
July 9th, 2009
12:59 pm
Except of scoring, AHorford outperformed AStaudemire in almost every other category. Why trade away valuable young assets to take the risk of bringing in a injury prone AStaudemire, who’ll give us less of what we need most, rebounding and DEF. We also run the risk of him being a flop since he’s only functioned within a one of a kind system and played with one of the most dynamic PG’s in NBA history.
What makes anyone think he’ll be as effective playing with a PG like Bibby, who’s the complete opposite of SNash. Didn’t he have issues when former Suns HC TPorter tried to get him to play DEF and function more in a HC OFF? Look at how the Suns regressed after acquiring Shaq. Didn’t they make the false assumption he would make them a better team than they were with SMarion?
If you love watching Amare Staudemire play that much, get NBA League Pass and watch him as much as you want, because he’s not coming here anytime soon.
jhan
July 9th, 2009
12:59 pm
AJ – I don’t think I would rather have Tony Battie over Crawford. I know Battie plays a position of greater need than Crawford but talent level is nowhere near in my opinion.
No way would they trade Thornton & Camby for Marvin. I don’t think they would even trade Thornton for Marvin straight up.
Chris Bosh would not provide the inside muscle this team is looking for. Not saying I wouldn’t like him on this team but not for that purpose.
Amare was unable to lead a more talented team in Phoenix to the finals. What makes you think it would be different here?
harry
July 9th, 2009
1:01 pm
How bout the hawks trying to get david lee as a restricted free agent from the knicks… 16 points and 11 boards would look good next to al horford… changing the hakws into a bigger team
bigdave
July 9th, 2009
1:01 pm
Ken Strickland…
agreed… keeping the nucleus together, continuity, court/locker room chemistry, obviously our guys like each other and want to continue the progression… 1st rd.; 2nd rd… 3rd rd/conference finals? id be interested in hearing Woodson’s expectations for the year. not his biggest fan on X’s & O’s however, he has cashed in on the previous 2 goals. im with you… HAWKS 3rd seed…
All I'm Saying Is...
July 9th, 2009
1:09 pm
If we can’t sign Gortat or trade Marvin for Tyson Chandler and if Camby is too frail, then I say look into signing unrestricted free agent Rasho Nestorivic of the Pacers as Hawks should be able to get him inexpensively to play center along with ZaZa—RN is 7′ and wide at 255 lbs and has some offensive skills.
Samuel
July 9th, 2009
1:11 pm
Ken,
Again, what makes you think that Shaq will clog the middle. A post player catches the ball on either side of the lane 90% of the time. Shaq requires a double and will until he turns 50. The lane os thus opened up. How quick we forget miami Heat’s Championship. DWade got to the basket because Shaq drew the double and he was able to pass. LeBron should be able to do the same thing, if not better.
What Philly effect? Wasn’t brand injured most of the season? How can you say it didn’t work if the man was injured.
Whoever doesn’t believe Vince Carter is a Hall of Fame player is. Cuz, moms might be watching. I won’t say. The man is an “8 TIME ALLSTAR”.
Not Sure why Nique wasn’t a 1st ballot guy. Definately should have been. Probably somebody who doesn’t know jack about the game voted against him. Just like the one who doesn’t believe Vince is.
E43
July 9th, 2009
1:16 pm
AMARE- hes not coming to the hawks because we dont have anyone to offer for him.
JMITH- hes not going anywhere, he had his best year FG% wise and will only improve
JJ- dont even mention him in trades and if your brave enough to ill tell you now that he was one of the top 10 shooting gards in the NBA last year despite all the criticism, double and triple teams. if u have the guts to mention a trade with him in the mix then hope u find the one of 9 people that would be an upgrade to him, otherwise your scenario is downgrading our SG and the rotation..
MARVIN WILLIAMS- he is priority number one but theres a good chance he wont return.the hawks actually won a better percentage of games with moe evans in the starting mix. and thats probably whats making his resigning such a tough ordeal the question is are the hawks really that impressed with his play being a top 10 draft pick?.
HORFORD-despite all the get a true center crap horford has improved his game and almost if not does average more rebounds than Amare. our trigger happy backcourt gives horford time to develop and hes coming along just fine. horfords first two years in the NBA are very similar to amares, despite being hurt last year. amares acquisition is basically trading away potential for age besides AMARE will want his shots at the same time will Joe Johnson so that’s a blow up waiting to happen especially with jamal crawford on the team.
i hope they sign marvin but at the same time the hawks played better without him as a starter win% wise. if he doesn’t come back and we have to start mo Evans, it will all be good but it should be a priority to upgrade the bench behind Evans if we do not sign a new starter.
Sekou Smith
July 9th, 2009
1:18 pm
I’m a believer in the Shaq principle (Shaq on your team means chance for title), even if it is dwindling as time goes by.
Vince gives Orlando a dynamic they didn’t have this past season. I’d have loved to see him match up against Kobe in the Finals. Maybe next year.
As for another big body, Brandon Bass would be an ideal off the bench big to play alongside Zaza. Don’t know if the Hawks can get in that mix now, though.
Samuel
July 9th, 2009
1:19 pm
The Real Truth is:
Detroit has two new starters, neither of which play any defense and “No Head coach”. Can’t see them challenging for the 4th spot. They will be lucky to make the playoffs. Colangelo will never learn that the NBA is a “MAN’s” game and you win with defense.
That EURO/PHX model looks good but won’t get you very far.
Chris M
July 9th, 2009
1:21 pm
Sekou, What is the most we can get back in a sign and trade for Childress?
Steve
July 9th, 2009
1:23 pm
Cavs got better with addition of O’Neal – if he stays healthy. Celts got better with “Sheed. Magic got a little better with addition of an older Vince, but losing Turk. We got much better with the addition of Crawford and our young guys getting another year of experience. Don’t think the Heat has gotten any better really. So of the top 5 in the East, we have improved the most.
Marvin’s back – how bad is it, and does it recur? Maybe we are smarter letting him move on, or sign/trade him for David Lee, and then let Chilz take his spot on the roster.
As far as Flip goes, I would sign him for 2 years, let he and Bibby hold down PG and let Teague develop. In his 3rd year he would be ready for prime time, and by year 5, one of the best. Thats my take.