Let’s make a deal
The original "King of Deals" (that's Monty Hall for all you mid-80s babies) must be proud of NBA general managers this summer, what with all action in free agency.
HAWKSVILLE - Is your head spinning?
Are you still trying to sort through all the dips, dives, twists and turns of this NBA free agent frenzy (which so far has lived up to that moniker in every sense of the word).
I know the Hawks haven’t gone crazy and done anything wildly splashy, much to the chagrin of some of you. But plenty of other teams seem happy to oblige the fantasy basketball bent in all of us.
Just reading about this four-team deal spearheaded by Dallas and Toronto to bring Shawn Marion to the Mavs and allow the Raptors to snag Hedo Turkoglu (among other benefits) should be enough to satisfy your thirst for pure craziness in the NBA summer.
Monty Hall should be hosting this stuff.
It’s a genius deal by all involved, if you ask me. It’s a just reward for the folks willing to dive into these deep, treacherous sign-and-trade waters and hook the big fish they were looking for. Who knows if it all works out the way the teams involved hope. That they are even willing to swan dive into a deal this complicated makes them winners in my book.
Yeah, I’ve campaigned for prudence around these parts in most instances, but I’m no NBA neo-conservative. I realize that in this day and age, as always, those who take the greatest risks stand to reap the greatest rewards.
That doesn’t mean the Hawks’ recent work to keep both Mike Bibby and Zaza Pachulia in the fold should be dismissed (and there’s nothing bubbling on the Marvin Williams front. Crickets on Flip Murray, too. And I suspect things will be relatively quiet around the Hawks for the next few days, no matter how many times someone tries to stoke the Amare Stoudemire-for-Josh Smith trade rumor that refuses to die). They are doing the business that good teams do in the summer. And that’s a welcome change from some of the puzzling and pulse-free summers of the Hawks’ recent past.
But if your thing is daring and dazzling trades and high-risk acquisitions, this is your time.
Since before draft night we’ve seen the Spurs remake themselves with the addition of Richard Jefferson and now Antonio McDyess. The Magic recharged themselves with Vince Carter. The champion Lakers stepped up the pace by acquiring Ron Artest. The Cavaliers grabbed Shaq. And the Celtics have added Rasheed Wallace. And those are just the major moves by the true title contenders.
Again, time will tell which moves worked and which moves were for not.
But in this day and age, simply making moves is enough to legitimize an operation. While it’s still a bit too early to judge, I’m wondering which move you think will be the best (not that I had to ask any of you to tell us what you think)?
I’ll admit, I can’t help but think the Spurs have shifted the balance of power in their favor, provided Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili return healthy and hungry this season. The Magic’s move might be underrated by some of us non-believers in the VC movement, but Ryan Anderson is legit and will help offset the loss of Turkoglu. Trading Artest for Trevor Ariza (which is what the Lakers accomplished by allowing Ariza to walk and sign with Houston did) improves the Lakers on paper, so perhaps they’ve done what was necessary to retain their championship aura. Then again, snagging Shaq usually means a greater chance at a title for his team, so maybe the Cavs have pushed themselves over the top …
What say you?
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870 comments Add your comment
macaroni tony
July 11th, 2009
7:10 pm
Everyone has a complain about JS moves period, I think it’s good that he is working out. So many players come back to training camp out of shape. (A. Walker) I can not wait to see the new moves that he develop.
niremetal
July 11th, 2009
7:33 pm
I’d actually rather see Smoove working with Smitty than Hakeem. I’ve said it before – Hakeem does not have a great track record working with big men. Just because you’re smart and you could play doesn’t mean you can teach. In any case, Josh has gotten a little better from Hakeem’s big man camps (which are camps and not 1-on-1 sessions like he’s doing with Smitty), but not enough that I think he’s better off going back to Hakeem instead of trying out Smitty.
Smitty was one of best post-up guards in recent NBA history. And this next part is just a hunch, but I’ve always had the impression he’d make a great tutor and coach. I’m a bit surprised he hasn’t shown up as an assistant coach on some staff yet. If he’s interested, I’d love to see him on the Hawks’ bench…
Melvin
July 11th, 2009
7:45 pm
Hopefully Smitty can teach Josh some of his old moves. Notice most of Smitty highlights are in the paint. He played in the alot prior to his knee injuries. Oh yeah, Derrick Coleman is feature in the highlights as well. They were good friends…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct9Pkzq4bYw&feature=PlayList&p=1316662B02885514&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=30
Melvin
July 11th, 2009
7:54 pm
Jack to the Raps? Could he and Bosh be teammates again…
http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/2009/07/four-years-on-jarrett-jack-offer-sheet.html
Melvin
July 11th, 2009
8:01 pm
Big AL said on the 2 live Stew show on Friday that he’s spending his summer in the ATL working with Mark Price on his shooting and footwork.
Melvin
July 11th, 2009
8:22 pm
Ariose,
This one is for you. Maybe the only guy on this planet that could get as high as Josh. I still remember watching this guy get rob in the McDonald’s All-Star Game Dunk Contest against Dave Lee. Keep a close eye on the dunk he did @3:40, he went between his legs..
http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/2009/07/four-years-on-jarrett-jack-offer-sheet.html
The back of RA's mind
July 11th, 2009
8:30 pm
Holy crap, I kinda stepped in it this time. What to do to save face?
I know, I’ll drape the flag around me like G.W. used to. Surely no one can argue against our country!
Then I’ll accuse Chills again of being disloyal. Even if the Hawks weren’t very loyal to HIM.
Let’s see what else……Oh I know, I’ll use condescension so they will ALL know that I’m better than they are.
Yeah, that’s the ticket!
Melvin
July 11th, 2009
9:27 pm
Aroise,
Here’s a bonus link. I bet he convert more dunks from the free throw line than shooting from the free throw line. He probably could make a dunk from the top of the key.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR2XFpaoOxo&NR=1
KevinA
July 11th, 2009
9:56 pm
RA, will you prescreen players for being loyal to team and country? If we sign Chills will there be another tea party? When Chills bowed to the European following was he appeasing or glowing in the warmth of his 26 pt games in the playoffs.
macaroni tony
July 11th, 2009
10:30 pm
this guy is sick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GszNJ1NCWo&feature=related
niremetal
July 11th, 2009
10:39 pm
Lest we think we’re alone in frustration:
http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2009/07/brandon_roy_to_blazers_ive_don.html
So next time we complain that we’re not moving fast enough on Marvin or Chills or Chris Wilcox, remember. PORTLAND ISN’T MOVING FAST ENOUGH ON BRANDON FREAKING ROY.
Melvin
July 11th, 2009
10:44 pm
Macaroni,
I gotta take a few points away from your guy b/c doesn’t dribble the ball on any his dunks….lol
Melvin
July 11th, 2009
10:45 pm
Macaroni,
I gotta take a few points away from your guy b/c he doesn’t dribble the ball on any his dunks….lol
O'Brien
July 11th, 2009
10:53 pm
Although I like the Bibby signing for 3 years, $18 mil (I hope year 3 was a team option), I am a big fan of Jarret Jack. 25 years old, can play a little off guard, but most importantly, can defend the PG position.
I will say this. I was a fan of the Bibby signing because that allowed the Hawks to use the mid-level to sign a big man. (If I’m not mistaken, if the Hawks had signed Jack, they would have to use the mid-level to sign him). But if the Hawks do not use the mid-level, I will be disappointed that we didnt go after Jack (younger, cheaper, better defense) instead of Bibby.
However, it will be interesting to see if the Raptors make an offer, for how much, and to see if the Pacers match. (My comments could turn out to be useless lol).
Jody
July 11th, 2009
11:15 pm
I think it’s great that Josh is working with Smitty. Smitty was a guy who not only was deadly in the post against 2’s and 3’s, but, needless to say, he had great perimeter skills facing the basket. These are things Josh must improve upon to reach the next level as a player. Josh came into the league playing minutes at the 2 and 3 position and they should have spent time developing his perimeter skills then.
Clyde
July 11th, 2009
11:15 pm
“Big AL said on the 2 live Stew show on Friday that he’s spending his summer in the ATL working with Mark Price on his shooting and footwork.”
Horford seems to have his footwork down already. When someone drives down the lane he does the Cha Cha Slide to the left instead of contesting the shot. He needs to be working wit Mutombo.
FIRE WOODY
Ariose
July 11th, 2009
11:16 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAGwrFsOv_o
Melvin, you’re right. This guy James white is sick with his. He might just jump higher han Josh too lol. I think Gerald Green May have an inch or two on Smoove as well.
O'Brien
July 11th, 2009
11:34 pm
…I wonder who Sean Williams is working with this off season?
niremetal
July 11th, 2009
11:43 pm
Beat me to it, O’Brien…
Ariose
July 12th, 2009
12:40 am
LOL @ both of you!!!
Melvin
July 12th, 2009
12:41 am
Ariose,
Ha,ha….I told you he got rob by David Lee…
Steve
July 12th, 2009
12:55 am
Have heard we might be trying to sign Drew Gooden – if his head is on straight, good move for Atlanta, cap wise and talent wise. 6-10 250, tough rebounder and can be had cheap (made 1.7m with SAS). Yep, could be a good one for ATL….
Ariose
July 12th, 2009
1:18 am
WOW!!! I just came across some of the mostclassic Sh!#$t Ever!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffo3_fO_RA8&feature=PlayList&p=6979504380A64B44&index=5
Maan that brings back old memories lol!
Ariose
July 12th, 2009
1:21 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjExVUKzb7Y&feature=related
Ariose
July 12th, 2009
1:24 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7Phh522tno&feature=related
Ariose
July 12th, 2009
1:34 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O_YUrEfRc0&feature=related
Ariose
July 12th, 2009
1:35 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt7HjdtbeUk&feature=PlayList&p=6979504380A64B44&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=2
Ariose
July 12th, 2009
1:37 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFlwRK45X9k&feature=related
Ariose
July 12th, 2009
1:40 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSgBuIMeiWI&feature=related
Ariose
July 12th, 2009
1:43 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo2JFbf6OKE&feature=related
niremetal
July 12th, 2009
1:53 am
Hahahahaha…Ariose finally flipped the switch and just went batsh!t crazy on us with the links. Dude, let me know if a single one of those is a video of something other than pro wrestling
Ariose
July 12th, 2009
2:04 am
lol, they’re not. But this IS the best one. Check it out!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ekZGgPCB_w&feature=related
That’ vintage rock right there!!!
Nire, don’t sleep on the rock lol he’s halarious. If you’ve got a coupleminutes you should check those out. He’lll have you ROFL for sure!!!
Waht can I say hehehe…..
~Sit Links A Lot~
Ariose
July 12th, 2009
2:16 am
Excuse me, that’s:
~Sir Links A Lot~
vava74
July 12th, 2009
4:15 am
I know that this is a repeated post, however, I think many people may have not read it yet and it saves me a lot of time writting about the same issues over and over!
There are a few points that people around here should realise:
1. We can only hope to sign players who want to come to Atlanta.
2. Practically no one wants to come to Atlanta and that includes Amare, Battier and whatever big names you throw around that already signed elsewhere (Varejao, ‘Dice, ‘Sheed, Turk, etc).
3. We should be thankful that JJ wanted (and wants) to play in Atlanta. None of the players above his level (which are only a handful) wants to play in Atlanta. We will never be able to sign the Kobes, Wades, Lebrons, Howards out there.
4. Hence, we should re-sign LONG TERM Marvin who has TREMENDOUS upside and to the least, will always attract trade talks due to his age and combination of technical and physical skills.
5. In order to break the “I don’t want to go to ATL” cycle and eventually trade some talented youth for another big time player we need to win 50+ games consistently 2 or 3 seasons in a row.
6. Then, if we do, we need to avoid making the mistake we made in the 80’s when we brought in Mo Malone and Reggie “locker room poison” Theus and completely destroyed our chemestry. Any future deals involving a trade of our young talent for a big time player can only happen if carefully done: Amare is a poison as well: his mother is in jail and that speaks a lot about his up bringing. He is damaged goods by default and all his physical (and technical) talent does not compensate his negative mental intangibles (he is lazy, a ME first character, …).
7. In relation to our system, we drafted Teague and traded for Crawford because in Woody’s “system” JJ is the PG and Bibby is the undersized SG. This happens to work well and badly at the same time since it creates bizarre match up problems for both sides which JJ usually turns in our favour (in the playoffs we saw the bad side of the system, but this was amplified due to all the injuries – JJ had a bad ankle all the way, Marvin was practically out of the equasion and Al extremely limited from a point onwards).
8. With Crawford, we have an excellent SG which can play a bit of PG with good size, speed and creativity (Flip does not have the size either) to combine with JJ in some circumstances and to spell him for nice stretches. The first guy in will always be Crawford for Bibby and then, after he plays with JJ for a few minutes, JJ will leave for Teague, who will play only 7-10 minutes under Woody.
9. The above makes Flip expendable, although for safety, we could signing him if we still have some cap room after negotiating all other players. Then if it is proven that we do not need him, we may eventually get a second round pick for him from a contender with injury problems later in the season.
10. We should keep Gardner and Otello and send them to the NBDL. Both have potential, at least equivalent to good second round picks. Gardner showed in garbage minutes against the Cavs that he has range, speed and is not afraid to take shots (yes, it was garbage, but it was national TV as well and he showed grit) and Otello has, in my opinion, the potential to turn into a Oakley type of player.
Big Ray
July 12th, 2009
7:19 am
Steve,
I’d love to see that. Give me Drew Gooden any day. Okay, now cue comments exactly to the opposite of that opinion…;)
Blast,
You’re right. Smitty was a pretty good post up guard. I know Smitty can teach him some good stuff, and it’s applicable because Josh has the quickness and athletic ability to make use of different trick moves, whether they are post moves or otherwise. But one thing Josh has been missing is somebody to teach him some good, solid post defense. He can block anybody’s shot, but he needs to learn some straight up chest-to-back, bump and grind defense. You always need that from a PF.
Few better to teach him on the court than Kurt Thomas. I wish he could have gotten that from Lorenzen Wright. But the truth is, Lorenzen never was that good, and when he came to the ATL, he was far more interested in using old school “I have seniority because I’m a vet” trick OFF the court, rather than ON the court. What can you possibly learn from a guy who too often averaged more fouls than rebounds?
I’ve always hated that our young bigs have never had good veterans to play behind or next to. Even Horford, who came in more experienced and more polished than Smith, needs that.
If not that, then a big man coach is a must. A good one.
Big Ray
July 12th, 2009
7:28 am
Clyde,
Horford doesn’t just contest the shot (as his season average of one and a half blocks would PROVE), he also contests the positioning. He bodies up on guys and doesn’t let them get exactly what they want all night.
Cha Cha Slide to the left? I’ll call that what it is: a lie. If you see him out of position, it’s because he’s out on the perimeter somewhere, guarding somebody that one of our guards was supposed to be defending.
The man averaged 11.5 ppg and 9.3 rpg last year. I wouldn’t mind having a guy like Mutombo around for him to learn from and play against in practice. Of course, Mutombo is too old and way too slow to keep up with Big Al if he’s having to defend him anywhere but right underneath the basket.
In the meantime, how about your boy Sean Williams? Averaged .9 blocks per game this past season. Well, that was when they actually let his sorry ass play in the League. And the only reason he got to do that for 33 games is because they couldn’t stand his ass down in the D-League.
Gosh, we need a center like that….heh…
Hms
July 12th, 2009
7:29 am
vava74, You could just save yourself and everyone else the trouble and not write anything at all.
G-Man
July 12th, 2009
7:38 am
Guys check out this horrible news. We are in the running for stephon marbury. UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
http://www.hoopsworld.com/HeadlineStories.asp?lc=NBA&c=1&TEAM_ID=&PLAYER_ID=&hd=20090712#STORY_20226
hawksfan#1
July 12th, 2009
8:11 am
What are Hawks owners doing to us…i dont see any changes in our team..its good that we added Crafword in the team but we already had good guards all we needed was a shooting guard and a great center…i believe we will do good this year with this siquad but if we add atleast a center before the deadline we will do great!
Melvin
July 12th, 2009
8:49 am
Oh my, maybe Ole Woody was right. Check this 2nd day report from the Vegas summer league.
“DUDS: Two years ago he was supposed to be the Hawks future at the point, now he’s a backup on the Warriors Summer League squad. Acie Law IV was 0-for-4 from the field in just 12 minutes and didn’t even get to wear his namesake jersey number as Randolph wears No. 4 so he had to go with No. 2. He’s half the man he used to be.”
Sautee
July 12th, 2009
9:19 am
RA,
You said this: “There are players like Mike Bibby and Za Za Pachulia who could have tried to break the bank, but they stayed in Atlanta because the team and the fans mean more to them than dollars and cents.”
How do you KNOW that they “could have tried to break the bank”?
Have you seen any mention of other offers to them? (Particularly offers at FOUR TIMES what they were already making!) I’ve not seen a single report of an offer to either player, just a report that Bibby’s agent felt out Philly for a one year deal and was rebuffed, and a rumor that NO was interested in Zaza. How to you “break the bank” without someone offering you something?
I think you are making a HUGE assumption that they were somehow being altruistic in their negotiations. Did either of them actually SAY “the team and the fans mean more to me than dollars and cents”? No, they did not.
And I’m confused as to exactly what “precident” (sic) was so dangerous and how?
BTW, it’s actually spelled precedent, but perhaps it’s telling that you put an “I” in it.
And RA, PLEASE don’t compare our service men and women to a sports figure. You cheapen what they do.
Ken Strickland
July 12th, 2009
9:42 am
BIG RAY-OUCH!
CLYDE-it’s obvious you don’t like Horford, but it has to be personal, because you can’t justify your dislike of him professionally. You must be comparing Sean Wiiliams’ college accomplishments against AHorford’s NBA accomplishments, because SWilliams hasn’t accomplished anything that would make him anyone’s choice professionally.
You have a very one dimensional idea of what it takes to be a DEF center. Marcus Camby, formerly of the Nuggets, led the NBA in blocked shots 3 consecutive yrs and finished 3rd last 4yr. Yet, Denver became a much better team defensively when they replaced Camby, and his shotblocking prowessw, with Nene’, a shorter, bigger, stronger, more physical center who blocks far fewer shots, but plays the same type of position DEF that AHorford plays.
CLYDE, you’re fighting a losing battle trying to promote an underachieving malcontent like Sean Williams. Do you think there’s a single GM or HC in the entire NBA that would turn down the opportunity to add AHorford to their roster, or would consider, for one minute, sending him to the D league?
niremetal
July 12th, 2009
9:58 am
Careful, Ken. You’ll lose the all-important Clyde endorsement for Blogger of the Year.
A Thinking Fan
July 12th, 2009
10:00 am
I didn’t think AH was a true center anyway…
niremetal
July 12th, 2009
10:11 am
I remember a few weeks ago when the Boston Globe said that the Hawks were dangling Marvin in a sign-and-trade for cash. Now this:
http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2009/07/12/it8217s_time_to_cut_minutes/
There is a long list of small forwards available for the $1.9 biannual exception or even less, including…Atlanta’s Josh Childress (restricted).
Uh…wow. Does he really think that Childress will leave Europe for the bi-annual exception? That would mean he’d get paid less that 1/4 of what he made in Europe. He turned down an offer from the Hawks for 3.5 times as much last summer to stay in Europe, and there are probably about a half-dozen who would pay him the full midlevel (which is three times the bi-annual) this summer. And even if Childress were willing to sign an offer sheet for that little, do they honestly think the Hawks wouldn’t match it in a millisecond?
I wish I just could let it slide when sportswriters talk out of their you-know-whats. But I can’t. We as fans rely on them to get us reliable information. When they persistently report BS or don’t do their fact-checking, it’s tough to take stock in what they say even if they are right.
ken
July 12th, 2009
10:23 am
Same old story. The Hawks will wait around to find the cheapest availiable left over free agent who will only make minimal impact because their goal is to just make the playoffs. With all the improvements by everyone else this off season, the Hawks will barely make the playoffs as the team is currently situated. Do anyone know of any availiable impact free agent big man the Hawks are in the running for ? The Hawks are not willing to spend to win so that leaves them fighting for the 7 or 8th playoff spot and a first round loss. Go figure!
New bloggers suck
July 12th, 2009
10:29 am
Another new blogger who doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking about. Go figure!
Anakin Joe
July 12th, 2009
10:40 am
Ray, I’d rather have Gooden than Wilcox. And while I initially said I’d rather have Solo than Wilcox, I changed my mind on that one. Wilcox is a better rebounder than I thought (although despite playing close to the rim he blocks shots at the same rate as Marvin). But seriously, I would actually be okay with Stromile Swift at this point as well. And my other concern is it appears that we are locked in with Mo playing back-up SF next season. I appreciate his willingness to defend, but dude will likely have a major minus rating for the season as he will frequently be over-matched. Maybe, we trade him in February for a 2nd round pick and give Othella Hunter those 5-8 minutes to defend big SFs. Sund will need to off-load some salary.
Big Ray
July 12th, 2009
10:40 am
“BIG RAY-OUCH!
CLYDE-it’s obvious you don’t like Horford, but it has to be personal, because you can’t justify your dislike of him professionally. You must be comparing Sean Wiiliams’ college accomplishments against AHorford’s NBA accomplishments, because SWilliams hasn’t accomplished anything that would make him anyone’s choice professionally.
You have a very one dimensional idea of what it takes to be a DEF center. Marcus Camby, formerly of the Nuggets, led the NBA in blocked shots 3 consecutive yrs and finished 3rd last 4yr. Yet, Denver became a much better team defensively when they replaced Camby, and his shotblocking prowessw, with Nene’, a shorter, bigger, stronger, more physical center who blocks far fewer shots, but plays the same type of position DEF that AHorford plays.
CLYDE, you’re fighting a losing battle trying to promote an underachieving malcontent like Sean Williams. Do you think there’s a single GM or HC in the entire NBA that would turn down the opportunity to add AHorford to their roster, or would consider, for one minute, sending him to the D league?”
Oh hell yeah. Ken Stricland for Blogger of the Year….Right Clyde?
Big Ray
July 12th, 2009
10:50 am
Anakin Joe,
I agree. Gooden is the best of that batch of names. I’ve always felt like Swift just can’t seem to keep his head in the game, but you’re right. At this point you just need a vet who knows how to contest a shot and get a few boards. I wouldn’t pay him much (I’m not sure what he’s even making right now), but I’m sure he can be had cheaply.
As for Hunter, I think that’s a good idea. Young fella seems to have some solid fundamentals and ability that we didn’t get to see much, since he was at the end of the bench. But that’s typical in year one unless you’re a 1st round pick (or a surprisingly talented 2nd rounder). Hopefully he comes to camp in shape, hungry as a starved tiger, and having worked on his game.
I also agree on Mo Evans. What we saw from him is why he’s a journeyman. Don’t dislike him, but he’s overmatched at the 3 most nights (as you said), and he won’t get minutes at the 2 unless JJ AND Crawford are injured. Still, not a bad vet to have on the bench, and some nights he’s a pleasant surprise with a few made 3s, and a couple of offensive boards.
Still waiting to see what we do as far as our big men (and the roster as a whole), but something tells me we won’t see a thing until after the 15th. It may be a domino effect from there…