Let’s make a deal
The original "King of Deals" (that's Monty Hall for all you mid-80s babies) must be proud of NBA general managers this summer, what with all action in free agency.
HAWKSVILLE - Is your head spinning?
Are you still trying to sort through all the dips, dives, twists and turns of this NBA free agent frenzy (which so far has lived up to that moniker in every sense of the word).
I know the Hawks haven’t gone crazy and done anything wildly splashy, much to the chagrin of some of you. But plenty of other teams seem happy to oblige the fantasy basketball bent in all of us.
Just reading about this four-team deal spearheaded by Dallas and Toronto to bring Shawn Marion to the Mavs and allow the Raptors to snag Hedo Turkoglu (among other benefits) should be enough to satisfy your thirst for pure craziness in the NBA summer.
Monty Hall should be hosting this stuff.
It’s a genius deal by all involved, if you ask me. It’s a just reward for the folks willing to dive into these deep, treacherous sign-and-trade waters and hook the big fish they were looking for. Who knows if it all works out the way the teams involved hope. That they are even willing to swan dive into a deal this complicated makes them winners in my book.
Yeah, I’ve campaigned for prudence around these parts in most instances, but I’m no NBA neo-conservative. I realize that in this day and age, as always, those who take the greatest risks stand to reap the greatest rewards.
That doesn’t mean the Hawks’ recent work to keep both Mike Bibby and Zaza Pachulia in the fold should be dismissed (and there’s nothing bubbling on the Marvin Williams front. Crickets on Flip Murray, too. And I suspect things will be relatively quiet around the Hawks for the next few days, no matter how many times someone tries to stoke the Amare Stoudemire-for-Josh Smith trade rumor that refuses to die). They are doing the business that good teams do in the summer. And that’s a welcome change from some of the puzzling and pulse-free summers of the Hawks’ recent past.
But if your thing is daring and dazzling trades and high-risk acquisitions, this is your time.
Since before draft night we’ve seen the Spurs remake themselves with the addition of Richard Jefferson and now Antonio McDyess. The Magic recharged themselves with Vince Carter. The champion Lakers stepped up the pace by acquiring Ron Artest. The Cavaliers grabbed Shaq. And the Celtics have added Rasheed Wallace. And those are just the major moves by the true title contenders.
Again, time will tell which moves worked and which moves were for not.
But in this day and age, simply making moves is enough to legitimize an operation. While it’s still a bit too early to judge, I’m wondering which move you think will be the best (not that I had to ask any of you to tell us what you think)?
I’ll admit, I can’t help but think the Spurs have shifted the balance of power in their favor, provided Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili return healthy and hungry this season. The Magic’s move might be underrated by some of us non-believers in the VC movement, but Ryan Anderson is legit and will help offset the loss of Turkoglu. Trading Artest for Trevor Ariza (which is what the Lakers accomplished by allowing Ariza to walk and sign with Houston did) improves the Lakers on paper, so perhaps they’ve done what was necessary to retain their championship aura. Then again, snagging Shaq usually means a greater chance at a title for his team, so maybe the Cavs have pushed themselves over the top …
What say you?
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870 comments Add your comment
Melvin
July 10th, 2009
3:08 pm
Anankin Joe,
I’m campaigning for Ryan Hollins. A legit 7ft shot blocker that played for the Mavs last season. I’m sure Clyde is drooling now…
dap01
July 10th, 2009
3:08 pm
I want JJ to resign but with his $15.0 million salary, we could let Crawford start and use the money on upgrading with another player or two. Sund traded for a lot of options with Crawford.
Ariose
July 10th, 2009
3:11 pm
Melvin, he’s restricted, i’m sere the mavs will match.
Melvin
July 10th, 2009
3:11 pm
Anakin Joe,
Can you at least suggest guys who are still playing in the league…lol
Stinger
July 10th, 2009
3:11 pm
Resigning JJ next year is a very interesting discussion. He is absolutely our best player but I agree he may not be in 3 years if our young guys continue to develop.
Question for the group
I’m reasonably knowledgable about the various caps but cannot remember the formulas for max salaries. For example – with the caps all falling in 2010 will the max also decrease. The Hawks would absolutly be able to offer JJ more than any of the disappointed LeBron suitors but how big is that gap? If the NBA executives have learned anything in the last 10 years it should be A) NEVER BID AGAINST YOURSELF and ALWAYS LET A PLAYER GO A LITTLE TOO EARLY THAN KEEP HIM A LITTLE TOO LONG.
Anakin Joe
July 10th, 2009
3:14 pm
Melvin, Hollins would work. Is he still an RFA or did the Mavs renounce him with all of their wheeling and dealing? Because if he’s an RFA, we probably can’t offer enough for Cuban to let him walk.
Sekou, call Dikembe and check on his rehab.
PDubATL
July 10th, 2009
3:14 pm
If David Andersen doesn’t come across the pond, I’m betting we go after Drew Gooden for a backup PF. He’s also got enough bulk to cover C if our other bigs get into foul trouble. 2 yrs/$3.8M??
Melvin
July 10th, 2009
3:15 pm
Ariose,
The Mavs may not match considering they are spending big money on Gortat/Dampier and acquire another big man from the Raps in the Marion trade (who’s making a good penny himself)….
kwooden1
July 10th, 2009
3:18 pm
Sounds like David Anderson was looking to take Zaza’s job, which isn’t going to happen now. I think Woody could get him 15-20 minutes a game, but I don’t know if that is what he’s looking for. I read a site that said his salary was 2M Euro which is about 2.8M dollars today. The HAWKS could give him raise to something around 3.5M, but I couldn’t tell from the article if that’s what he’s looking for. The way thing stand now, if we don’t get Wilcox, I think we should just sign Solo and call it a summer. I think Marvin is going to wait until next summer to decide on an extension.
GO HAWKS!
Ariose
July 10th, 2009
3:19 pm
Melvin, ooh I didn’t know. Hopefully we can get Hollins or Wilcox.
I MUS WRITE- LUV DA KIDZ
July 10th, 2009
3:20 pm
AJ- Forget about Chris taft I saw him about 6 months ago with one of ATL’s finest -If im not mistaken he was being led around by the ring in his noes
Now Cato is a different story i see him every couple months and he looks like he could play right now….. that man is huge
Anakin Joe
July 10th, 2009
3:22 pm
Melvin to provide some serious names (and based SOLELY on my assumption that we can only offer minimum salaries), I think we could consider names like Malik Rose, Robert Swift, Michael Ruffin, Cedric Simmons, Melvin Ely and Shelden Williams. Would injury-prone guys like Chris Mihm, Raef LaFrentz, Sean May or Leon Powe accept a minimum/partially guaranteed deal with maybe a team option for next year? If so, I would roll the dice on one of them (especially Powe and May).
Mz. Hawkdafied
July 10th, 2009
3:25 pm
THE ATL HAWKS ROCK!!!!!! TOTALLY DUDE!!!!!!!!!!
You guys on this blog really do know what you’re talking about. Mike Woodson could use you on his staff. You could also maybe be an advisor to Rick Sund.
ATL HAWKS GO!!!!!
RA
July 10th, 2009
3:27 pm
Doc, I’m thinking team guy that will finish what he starts. At least that’s what I’m hoping. And Joe IS the best, and most professional player that we have right now. I’ll tell you something. After the Cleveland series, Joe Johnson stayed on that court and shook hands with that team, even hugged Lebron James. That, my good sir, is a gentleman sportsman, and that breed is becoming more and more rare. Now, I don’t know what’s going to happen with his numbers. I figure that since the Hawks have more weapons now (Crawford), they may actually go up. But the one thing that I am sure of is the professional integrity of Joe Johnson. I’m also sure that all of a man’s contributions to a team, and to a sport, and to a community, and to the next generation don’t always show up in statistics that are tallied at the end of the year.
O'Brien
July 10th, 2009
3:33 pm
I like JJ, but if you gave Josh or Al the same amount of shot attempts that JJ took, would they be considered our best player?
JJ – 18 shot attempts per game, 21.4 ppg
Crawford – 15.7 attempts per game, 19.7 ppg
Bibby – 12.7 attempts per game, 14.9 ppg
Josh – 12.3 attempts per game, 15.6 ppg
Al – 9 shot attempts per game, 11.5 ppg
Marvin – 10.2 shot attempts per game, 13.9 ppg
Yes, JJ is our best player right now, but Josh and Al (even Marvin) have the potential to be even better, if only Woody would give them more shot attempts.
Again, I like JJ, but not for $20 mil a year. Plus who knows how long before his body starts breaking down from playing so many minutes eac season.
terrell barron
July 10th, 2009
3:39 pm
Boozer to Chicago? The East is going to be a beast.
Ken Strickland
July 10th, 2009
3:39 pm
NIREMETAL-The biggest differnce between Flip and Crawford OFF wise is Flip has to control the ball to be effeective. and he doesn’t have much of a gm without the ball. Because of Crawford’s ability to be effective without the ball, he’ll be much more of a threat if JJ has the ball, which will make him much more effective than Flip at stopping teams from double teaming JJ.
Everyone keeps saying we NEED ANOTHER QUALITY BIG. Well, do we? Zaza got almost 20mins a gm last yr and Solo got about 10. No other Big on our bench got enough mins to mention. Before a quality Big considers signing with the Hawks, don’t you think he’d want more than Solo mins and the accompanying inconsistency? We just might end up with Solo accepting a 1yr tender and becoming a UFA next yr. I actually think Solo would be happy with playing 10mins a gm if they were consistent mins, and far fewer DNPCD.
Our primary bench rotation should be Zaza, Crawford, Evans, with Teague and Solo(if we resign him instead of another Big) being used situationally. Let’s just hope Sund impresses upon Woodson that this time he’ll be evaluated on the development of his overall coaching skills and player utilization, rather than the teams won/loss record.
niremetal
July 10th, 2009
3:40 pm
O’Brien,
Two things:
1) The max that JJ’s deal could start at is $16M. It would probably be 5 years/$80M over the life of it. As I said, some team will give him that.
2) You wanna play the “project players stats if they got more shots” game? Ok. How’s this. Kobe takes 21 shots per game, 26.8ppg. Mbenga takes 2.5 shots per game, 2.7ppg. Clearly, the Lakers have been going about this all wrong. They should give the ball to Mbenga more.
Melvin
July 10th, 2009
3:42 pm
Anakin,
Give me Sean May (if he’s in shape) and Melvin Ely (great name) from your list. I would go with Powe if he’s healthy and available at mid-season. Besides that, give me SOLO…
Ariose,
I would offer Ryan 2yr/2mil deal. I think Dallas is in luxury tax land. If so, that means they will have to pay him 4 mil (2 salary/ 2 tax). That may be too much for them to paid their 3 string center.
niremetal
July 10th, 2009
3:45 pm
A better way to put it is this: If we flipped the number of shot attempts JJ gets with the number that Josh gets, I’m pretty confident JJ’s FG% would be significantly higher and Josh’s would be significantly lower. Same if we flipped Joe’s with Marvin’s or Joe’s with Al’s.
I agree that we should spread the ball more, but I hate it when people look at FG% and project outward from that. I went off on a long rant about that last night…
Ariose
July 10th, 2009
3:45 pm
Melvin, I agree.
ricki
July 10th, 2009
3:46 pm
josh smith for amare stoudamire???
Anakin Joe
July 10th, 2009
3:47 pm
O’Brien, I don’t think anyone is suggesting a $20M contrract for Joe. I think we’re just saying that we need the flexibility to negotiate contracts to retain both Joe and Marvin next summer. And if we have a $22-24M slot to take care of both of them, not only may that require a shoe horn, but it also likely means yet another year of a Dollar Store 2nd big man.
bigdave
July 10th, 2009
3:47 pm
Niremental….
absolutely… to your 3:05
ricki
July 10th, 2009
3:50 pm
anyone, josh smith for amare stoudamire?
Dekaturkingz
July 10th, 2009
3:54 pm
Ricki, Stop It. Just Stop It.
ricki
July 10th, 2009
3:55 pm
why? its a great trade
Melvin
July 10th, 2009
3:57 pm
Heck, didn’t we (Hawks) paid Joe $20M in the 1st year of his contract? What’s the point that Im trying to make? Heck I don’t even know. Oh yeah, we should worry about Joe contract after this season.
Anakin Joe
July 10th, 2009
3:57 pm
Ken, I’m not sure that looking at the minute distribution for a 2nd round project is what someone like Chris Wilcox, Drew Gooden or other former lottery picks would use as their barometer. Solo (as I recall) was considered “raw” when he left college, having played very little organized ball. If Robert Swift or Cedric Simmons want to know what to expect, then Solo is probably a good measure. But we already have Solo, so why would we consider one of those projects?
Anakin Joe
July 10th, 2009
3:59 pm
Melvin, check the very bottom left corner of the attached.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsjo02.html
chaz
July 10th, 2009
4:01 pm
payroll 2009 2010
bibby 6M 6M
JJ 15M ?
marvin 7M ?
josh 11M 11.5M
al 4M 5.5M
teague 2M 2M
crawford 9M 10M
mo 2.5M 2.5M
zaza 5M 5M
mario 1M
randmo 1M
totals 63.5 M 42.5M
1) assuming marvin signs the QO, it doesn’t look like we will use the MLE this year on a decent FA big like wilcox (payroll was 68M last year and i don’t see us going above that). best we can hope for is to spend 1-3M to sign flip or a cheap big like ratliff to a 1-year deal
2) whether we sign marvin to the 1-year QO or to a long term deal, it will be difficult to sign BOTH marvin and joe next year without significantly expanding our payroll or making a trade. bad economy/reduced cap make expanding our payroll seem unlikely
safest bet would be to sign marvin to the QO and see what happens this year (with his bad back and his game), leaving ourselves with more flexibility (around 20M plus crawford’s expiring contract) to work out long term deals next summer for joe and/or marvin (or another FA) IMO
Dekaturkingz
July 10th, 2009
4:02 pm
We’ve Been Down That Road Before.
Melvin
July 10th, 2009
4:18 pm
Anakin,
I gotta run out but I did briefly look at your link (which means I could’ve overlook something). However, i thought the Hawks sign Joe to a max deal and that site is showing his career total salaries at $46M (which includes his rookie contract). Maybe my math is off but I think that site is incorrect. Again, glance over it quickly so may i misread something. I will check back later….
Najeh Davenpoop
July 10th, 2009
4:19 pm
Brandon Bass would have been a nice addition, but I wouldn’t mind Hollins or Wilcox either. Either way, the Hawks need to act soon. Seems like another big man is getting snapped up every day.
doc
July 10th, 2009
4:22 pm
aj i am going to enjoy this season in spite of you ….. heh heh.
ill worry about jj this time next year when i have only two roster spots to jiggle based on performance. look bibby and zaza went the team route, i can see jj doing the same and getting the keys to the city.
doc
July 10th, 2009
4:23 pm
chaz i like your style doesnt matter what you say.
Ariose
July 10th, 2009
4:27 pm
ricki, We need a “Length”; Amare is not significantly better than smoove. He doesnt play any defense, he’s 28, he has two surgically repaire microfracture knees, and a bum eye that was surgically operated on twice. By the time he turns 35 be won’t be able to see or walk lol.
Besides Josh smith is 23 years old. Doesn’t have any major injuries or surgeries. He’s more athletic than Amare, Oooh Oooh & & HE PLAYS DEFENSE!!! They’re also the same size. BAD TRADE. Amare also only has one year left on his deal. I dont even want to get into Smooves 7 Million dollar, Trade kicker or his Base Year compensation status.
Anakin Joe
July 10th, 2009
4:36 pm
doc, I will enjoy the season too. In fact, I’m going to enjoy the heck out it, especially Crawford (since he may be the long-term SG), Joe (since it may be his last year as a a Hawk) and Marvin (see Joe reason).
Melvin, that site stopped at the 07-08 season (unfortunately). I think Joe signed a $67M deal over 5 years. Started at $12M and increased by $744k each season. He’s scheduled to make a hair under $14,980k next season.
Clyde
July 10th, 2009
5:07 pm
FIRE WOODY
Melvin
July 10th, 2009
5:11 pm
Anakin,
See my link. Johnson got 20M his 1st year.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2104688
Doc,
Check that link two. I think there’s an answer to an old agrument between You/Ando and others. Look like Phx was considering matching Joe offer. I know I’m blowing some dust off that age old debate…
Ariose
July 10th, 2009
5:14 pm
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/090710&sportCat=nba
Melvin
July 10th, 2009
5:16 pm
Doc,
Here’s another link saying that Phx would have matched the Hawks offer. You’re Welcome old man….lol
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2120960
Sautee
July 10th, 2009
5:17 pm
Nire,
about this: “To label a player as a “me-first” guy just because he chooses to maximize the most lucrative contract of his life is absurd.”
So that applies to Chills, too?
Mike V
July 10th, 2009
5:20 pm
Bass is gone to Orlando. That hurts bigtime. Is Solo really going to be our 3rd big? Any chance you see us picking up Stackhouse now that he’s realeased to shore up the 3?
rodney
July 10th, 2009
5:24 pm
A lot of teams are making trades, not all trades are going to work, some attitudes are going to clash in the locker room and/or on the court. I just hope the Hawks get an avg backup center that can be a true presence in the middle. Avg 4pts, 6reb, and 2 or 3 blks. Someone who can spare Horford and Zaza. I wanna know how the hawks gonna handle the PG position…..who’s the starter, will Crawford be ok coming off the bench, how will Woodson develope Teague.
doc
July 10th, 2009
5:25 pm
RA- I have read your blogs about the hawks on this and mb’s site and you are yet to say anything that makes sense. You might be better to stick to something you do well!!! This certainly is not it.
O'Brien
July 10th, 2009
5:34 pm
Bass gets 4 years, $18 mil to sign with Orlando. I would have loved to sign Bass.
Frye gets 2 years, $4 million, but I’m not a fan of Frye. We need a banger. However, thats probably the kind of deal (bi-annual exception)the Hawks will look to sign with a backup PF. I would be surprised to see the Hawks use their mid-level.
nire
If Josh ever focuses on his game around the rim (or develops a consistent mid-range jump shot), and gets more shot attempts, his ppg would improve (even if his FG% decreases), and he could easily be the leading scorer on our team. Some players, no matter how many shots they get, just dont have the talent to lead a team in scoring. But Josh has All-Star potential, and so does Al.
My point is, I hope Woody is not too blind to see that Josh and Al can take a lot of the load off JJ, if he would give them a chance. I can see it now. Woody will be lobbying for the Hawks to resign JJ at all costs, because Woody only knows one play. iso JJ.
Melvin
July 10th, 2009
5:44 pm
Sekou,
We may have to re-evaluate your offseason grades if the Magic gets to keep Brandon Bass. Add that atheletic workhorse in the paint next to the game best center D.Howard and move Lewis back to his natural SF position with Vince on the other wing and the little midget Nelson running the offense. Throw in the supersubs AJ, Pietrus and Ryan Anderson. I’m not so sure if Orlando is ready to hand the east over to the Celtics, Cavs and Hawks…lol… They still need a backup center.
Sautee
July 10th, 2009
5:46 pm
methinks we have an imposter.
One who doesn’t really understand doc or his style.
Melvin
July 10th, 2009
5:49 pm
Anakin,
My badd, you are right. I was confusing the projected offer to Joe that included a balloon $20M up front payment to scare Phx in matching the offer. Look like his actual contract started at $12M….