Let’s make a deal

The King of Deals would be proud of NBA general managers this summer, what with all the deals going down in free agency.

The original "King of Deals" (that's Monty Hall for all you mid-80s babies) must be proud of NBA general managers this summer, what with all action in free agency.

HAWKSVILLE - Is your head spinning?

Are you still trying to sort through all the dips, dives, twists and turns of this NBA free agent frenzy (which so far has lived up to that moniker in every sense of the word).

I know the Hawks haven’t gone crazy and done anything wildly splashy, much to the chagrin of some of you. But plenty of other teams seem happy to oblige the fantasy basketball bent in all of us.

Just reading about this four-team deal spearheaded by Dallas and Toronto to bring Shawn Marion to the Mavs and allow the Raptors to snag Hedo Turkoglu (among other benefits) should be enough to satisfy your thirst for pure craziness in the NBA summer.

Monty Hall should be hosting this stuff.

It’s a genius deal by all involved, if you ask me. It’s a just reward for the folks willing to dive into these deep, treacherous sign-and-trade waters and hook the big fish they were looking for. Who knows if it all works out the way the teams involved hope. That they are even willing to swan dive into a deal this complicated makes them winners in my book.

Yeah, I’ve campaigned for prudence around these parts in most instances, but I’m no NBA neo-conservative. I realize that in this day and age, as always, those who take the greatest risks stand to reap the greatest rewards.

That doesn’t mean the Hawks’ recent work to keep both Mike Bibby and Zaza Pachulia in the fold should be dismissed (and there’s nothing bubbling on the Marvin Williams front. Crickets on Flip Murray, too. And I suspect things will be relatively quiet around the Hawks for the next few days, no matter how many times someone tries to stoke the Amare Stoudemire-for-Josh Smith trade rumor that refuses to die). They are doing the business that good teams do in the summer. And that’s a welcome change from some of the puzzling and pulse-free summers of the Hawks’ recent past.

But if your thing is daring and dazzling trades and high-risk acquisitions, this is your time.

Since before draft night we’ve seen the Spurs remake themselves with the addition of Richard Jefferson and now Antonio McDyess. The Magic recharged themselves with Vince Carter. The champion Lakers stepped up the pace by acquiring Ron Artest. The Cavaliers grabbed Shaq. And the Celtics have added Rasheed Wallace. And those are just the major moves by the true title contenders.

Again, time will tell which moves worked and which moves were for not.

But in this day and age, simply making moves is enough to legitimize an operation. While it’s still a bit too early to judge, I’m wondering which move you think will be the best (not that I had to ask any of you to tell us what you think)?

I’ll admit, I can’t help but think the Spurs have shifted the balance of power in their favor, provided Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili return healthy and hungry this season. The Magic’s move might be underrated by some of us non-believers in the VC movement, but Ryan Anderson is legit and will help offset the loss of Turkoglu. Trading Artest for Trevor Ariza (which is what the Lakers accomplished by allowing Ariza to walk and sign with Houston did) improves the Lakers on paper, so perhaps they’ve done what was necessary to retain their championship aura. Then again, snagging Shaq usually means a greater chance at a title for his team, so maybe the Cavs have pushed themselves over the top …

What say you?

870 comments Add your comment

HawkKingBibby

July 9th, 2009
9:24 am

HawkKingBibby

July 9th, 2009
9:27 am

Sekou I have a question about this July 15th date with David Andersen and Chills. Is that the date they both can become free agents from their Euro teams or the date they have to let their Euro teams know if they are coming back? Could it be possible the Hawks already have a trade in place for Chills but have to wait till the 15th for it to go down?

HawkKingBibby

July 9th, 2009
9:34 am

Sekou call me an insane homer but I think if Jamal Craford can keep JJ from getting doubled and tripled then the Hawks may have made the best move of anyone in the east in the offseason. The Hawks added and didnt really have to subtract. Carter is a nice player but Turk was big time in the playoffs. Shaq could actually slow Clevland down and clog the lanes for Lebron. The C’s are moving closer to social security with every passing breath.

niremetal

July 9th, 2009
9:50 am

I’d definitely say the Spurs made the best move by acquiring RJ. Bowen had been phased out of their rotation anyway, Oberto had seen a major drop in his minutes, and Kurt Thomas was basically replaced/improved with the addition of McDyess. Count me in the camp (which apparently includes 28 GMs) that believes DaJuan Blair will be an abject failure in the NBA, but even if I’m right about that, the Spurs have had a great summer so far.

I’ve expressed my skepticism of the Shaq trade and the Vince trade many times. The latter trade came at the price of re-signing Hedo, who’s tailor-made for StanVan’s system, and I think trading for Shaq will work out even worse for Cleveland than it did for Phoenix. Rasheed and Artest are high-risk signings for teams that had near-perfect chemistry before the trade (Sheed in particular was a big risk given that he’s become enamored with his three point shot – which is hardly what the Celtics need from him). And Houston letting Artest go and replacing him with Ariza? Don’t even get me started.

O'Brien

July 9th, 2009
9:51 am

The Mavs are looking to add Gortat, resigned J. Kidd, add Shawn Marion (to go with Josh Howard), and they signed Ross, and would like to get Brandon Bass back. It shows how deep Mark Cuban’s pocket is.

Same with the Lakers. Even before signing Odom, their salary for next season is at $84 mil. And to think, the economy is really bad right now.

Sekou,

I have been pleased with Sund’s efforts so far. But we still need a backup PF, and another PG. (What if Bibby/Crawford gets hurt?). Do you know if there are any PG’s on the Hawks radar?

Hawksfanatic

July 9th, 2009
9:51 am

HawkKingBibby, Andersen and Chillz have until July 15th to opt out of their Euro deals. Once July 15th passes and they have not indicated they will opt out, then they are under contract with their respective Euro teams for the next year and the process starts over again next season (both have the same clauses after next season as well).

It is not possible for the Hawks to “need” to wait until the 15th, a deal could be done right now if Chillz were to exercise his opt out clause.

ILL-logical

July 9th, 2009
9:54 am

Prehaps the simplest but most profound “deal” would involve a change in coaching philosophy on the part of the Hawks.

If Woodson would first adopt a system that is based upon the strengths and abilities of the personnel on the roster, more and better results could be acheived sooner than later.In addition, hiring a staff whose skills and imput would be utilized would help. Mr. Sund has publicly stated that one of his criterion for evaluating the success of the head coach is how well they develop the talent on hand.If this is neither the forte nor the interest of the current incumbent, then he should hire staff whose job it is to do so.

Case in point, the lively discussions about the need for additional big men on the Hawk’s roster. I wonder would the tone be a little different if an Antonio Davis type had been on board for the last few years. Or a Julius Erving. Maybe team doesn’t just need additional talent on the floor but on the bench as well.

DJ

July 9th, 2009
9:56 am

The cavs signed Anthony Parker too…

ILL-logical

July 9th, 2009
9:56 am

Prehaps the simplest but most profound “deal” would involve a change in coaching philosophy on the part of the Hawks.

If Woodson would first adopt a system that is based upon the strengths and abilities of the personnel on the roster, more and better results could be acheived sooner than later.In addition, hiring a staff whose skills and imput would be utilized would help. Mr. Sund has publicly stated that one of his criterion for evaluating the success of the head coach is how well they develop the talent on hand.If this is neither the forte nor the interest of the current incumbent, then he should hire staff whose job it is to do so.

Case in point, the lively discussions about the need for additional big men on the Hawk’s roster. I wonder would the tone be a little different if an Antonio Davis type had been on board for the last few years. Or a Julius Erving. Maybe the team doesn’t just need additional talent on the floor but on the bench as well.

honest_abe

July 9th, 2009
9:59 am

yes the celts are old. but i think they had a great shot of repeating last year of kg hadn’t gotten hurt. rondo is the best pg in the east. pierce is still as clutch as they come. a frontcourt rotation of kg, sheed and perkins is downright scary. i just don’t see how teams are going to get points in the paint against them.

i’d be satisfied with the hawks offseason if they can manage to resign marv, get chills to come back and get andersen to come from europe. i think with that kind of depth the hawks can’t finish worse than 3rd in the east.

i think orlando took the biggest step back. vc has made every team he’s been on mediocre and that’s a fact.

o’brien. um i think they got one more insurance policy in case bibby or crawford gets hurt. his name is jeff teague.

JC

July 9th, 2009
10:01 am

I mean, isn’t the insane retooling of the Eastern powers (Cavs, Magic and Celtics) pretty much a death sentence in the second (or first) round of the 09-10 playoffs for the Hawks? VC was a Hawk-killer last season in NJ, we have no answer inside for Shaq, and provided the Celtics keep ‘Sheed’s emotions in check, they’ll be motivated from a disappointing title defense last year. I mean, each of these teams’ hopes hinge on the joints of three 30-plus-year-olds with A LOT of wear and tear, so injuries aren’t that far-fetched, but what say you?

Ward

July 9th, 2009
10:10 am

I am actually pleased thus far with Sund’s ability to keep our own guys here, but now we need to look at what makes us a championship contender and not just a play-off team. I think we need to get the deal for Marvin done and then look at some of the trade possibilities available to us. I think that we have 3 big chips to deal: Josh Smith, Josh Childress, and Joe Johnson… We have a solid 4 in Hortford, a nice back-up center in Zaza, a solid 3 in Marvin, and decent PG in Bibby, a good prospect in Teague (but he needs some minutes), and a good 6th man in Crawford(I see him playing back-up at the 2 and a little time at point), and 8th man in Evans. But we really need a center and a 2 guard in the event Joe leaves next year in free agency. I am all for locking him up, but if we see that there is a chance he may go elsewhere we need to go ahead and trade him… Here are some trades that I think look good:

Childress and Smith to the Suns for Studamire and Barbosa.
Childress and Smith to the Bulls for Deng and Heinrich.
Childress and Smith to Toronto for Bosh.
Joe Johnson and Childress to Minnesota for Al Jefferson.
Josh Smith and Joe Johnson to the Warriors for Biedrins, Magette, and Wright.

MBZ

July 9th, 2009
10:11 am

Well, I think coaching philosophy is something that would benefit our club. But iv’e come to terms that woody is our coach for the foreseeable future. We do have a guard oriented offense, but if we make it a point to spread the ball and least play off the post, it should be ok. Remember, 2004 Pistons is the Blueprint.

As for the Spurs, they are legit. I could see a LA/Spurs/Nuggets power struggle in the west. Boston i’m not so sure about. is ‘Sheed coming off the bench, or starting in place of Perkins? And what is there back up point guard situation? I’m not hearing anything about Marbury being resigned. I think teams will be able to better match up with orlando now that they cant run that 3-5 pick and roll with Turg. That thing was lethal for Cleveland. However, Shaq cant cover Dwight on the pick and roll but he swore there will be now double teaming on him. I think Cleveland gets past ORL/BOS this year and eventually falls to LA/SA. Although it would be great to see Duncan and Shaq go at it one last time..

rainman

July 9th, 2009
10:12 am

Sekou, I keep asking you what you think would be fair compensation if we tried to trade for a Camby or Chandler. Their teams want to dump salary and they will be in the last year of their contracts. Also, is it possible that either would sign a new deal as a condition of the trade, or is it a foregone conclusion that they would want to become UFA’s after this season?

Dave

July 9th, 2009
10:12 am

The problem is still rebounding!!!! No one in the NBA can shoot anymore(they think 30% from the field is a good night) and in most of the Hawks losses we got outrebounded by a bunch. Josh Smith is a first and second qtr player because he gets worn down attempting to play defense and rebound against bigger bodies. We have no consistent defense down low! Please sign Gortat and sign Marvin Williams. Then trade Josh Smith, Marvin, and the rights to Childress to Toronto for Chris Bosh. We free up the money to extend Bosh and we get the big body in Gortat to bang with Garnett, Shaq, etc… We get consistent scoring from the post in Bosh and we are athletic enough to run from every position! If this is too much money then forget Gortat and define Zaza’s role as a banger! Starting five Bosh, Horford, Johnson, Crawford, and Bibby. Good bench in Pachulia, Evans, Teague. Murray could still be in the mix and maybe could get the Bosh deal done and keep either Marvin or Childress for good defensive length and to cause match up problems for other teams. We need consistent inside scoring to compete for a title and Bosh is the key! Toronto goes young and can put people in the seats with Josh’s highlights!

Anakin Joe

July 9th, 2009
10:13 am

I can’t believe that Sekou found a picture of Monty Hall. Sekou, I hope you got all of the dust and mildew off your hands. Monty Hall? Talk about pulling something out of your… I LOVE IT!

Let’s make a deal with the Nets for one of they’re serviceable big men (not Sean Williams, I want Josh Boone). They have a nice collection of PFs. If we still had $7M in expiring contracts, maybe we could get Tony Battie. Oh well.

Sautee

July 9th, 2009
10:19 am

abe,

Good to see you back, man, but I’ve got an issue with one thing you said:

“vc has made every team he’s been on mediocre and that’s a fact.”

Here’s an inconvenient fact for you: In 00-01 the Raptors won 47 games and went to the Second Round.

Sound familiar?

So do you think the Hawks (47 wins, second round) are mediocre?

Dekaturkingz

July 9th, 2009
10:19 am

Ward, Slow Down On Trading Everybody. It Took Us Ten Years To Get This Far. Be Cool, Were On The Right Path With Rick Sund GM Of The Year 2009.

Melvin

July 9th, 2009
10:26 am

My vote is split between Celtics, Spurs and Lakers (if they resigned Odom). I believe had KG been healthy last season, Boston would have been REPEAT CHAMPS. No way LA or ORL beats that Boston team.

As for offseasn acquisitions, I believe Sheed will be on his best behavior in Beantown and play well behind KG/Perkins and will play alot of crunch time mins while Perkins is on the bench. I think the C’s still need a backup PG/SF (um, Grant Hill). LA will be back in the middle of a title run. Artest is a better all around player than Ariza and give them a tough defender to matchup against Pierce (2008 rematch?). If Tim and Manu are healthy, look out for the Spurs. Parker, RJ and McDyess will be a tough 5 on the floor. One more big man would solidify their bench.

Also, I wouldn’t overlook the Cavs and underestimate the toughness that Shaq will bring to that squad. Orlando, will be good but I don’t think they will make it back to the big stage. Mavs are making alot of moves but I don’t think they will be an elite team.

Melvin

July 9th, 2009
10:28 am

Nire,

What happen to the DING after the trade scenarios above??? My goodness…

Ariose

July 9th, 2009
10:29 am

Or…….GERALD GREEN(800K!!!!)

niremetal

July 9th, 2009
10:30 am

Sorry Melvin…my alarm needs new batteries ;)

honest_abe

July 9th, 2009
10:36 am

sautee: thanks bub… now you got me there… but seriously you point out one season when they were a little better than avg? but a 47 win team that gets knocked out in the 2nd round is a pretty big step from the finals don’t ya think?

Melvin

July 9th, 2009
10:38 am

Sekou,

I saw that brief conversation with you and JChill on his/your twitter pages (Ariose isn’t awoke yet to post it). Man if we could get him back along with another big (Andersen) and resign Marvin. We would be loaded.

I may purchase the full season packages (instead of the smaller package) and give the tixs to the games I can’t make to Anakin/Astro Joe….

Bring the FRO’ back to the ATL…

Hoops

July 9th, 2009
10:38 am

The Hawks will do nothing with Marvin until they know what Childress and Andersen are going to do. July 15 will be an interesting day for the Hawks! There are many possibilities with trades if Chills decides to come back to the NBA!!! That could be the Hawks answer to getting a really good BIG!!!

Anakin Joe

July 9th, 2009
10:41 am

I’m taking a wait and see approach regarding KG’s health with the Celtics. If Rasheed is being added to the mix, then they are likely the team to beat. But if he is essentially replacing KG, then I’m not so sure.

Truthfully, Orlando seems to be the team that isn’t dependent on oneof their main players getting and staying healthy. If the Lakers resign Odom, it my not be wise to bet against the champs.

Sautee

July 9th, 2009
10:43 am

abe,

Still a BIG STEP away, no doubt, but I think we’re better than mediocre.

Although some would say we’re way too close for their comfort. ;-)

I guess mediocre is in the eye of the beholder.

Anakin Joe

July 9th, 2009
10:44 am

Melvin, would I be required to scream like a little girl at an Usher concert everytime Smith dunks the ball? If so… I can do that. :)

Melvin

July 9th, 2009
10:51 am

Anakin,

I would say clap your hands but I was told you enjoy the concession stands too much for that…lol

Podge

July 9th, 2009
10:52 am

The Hawks should trade Josh Smith and Childress to Phoenix for Stoudamire. Amare makes 16.8 million, Josh Smith makes 10.8 million so we would just have to sign Childress to a 5 million a year contract and the trade would then work. Plus Smooth and Childress would fit in perfectly with Nash and the run and gun Suns. I know a lot depends on whether Childress wants to come back to America, but it seems his market value is in that 5 to 5.5 million dollar range and I would think that the Suns would not see a better deal. Amare would allow us to move Hortford to the PF spot and he could master the 10 to 15 foot jump shot. We would also have for the first time a low post presence that our offense could work through. Imagine how much easier Joe’s job would be.

Our Team would be:
PG Bibby
SG JJ
SF Marvin
PF Hortford
C Stoudemire

PG Teague
SG J Crawford
SF M Evans
PF D Anderson
C Zaza

I would then keep Mario and Randolph and if possible resign Flip, but I doubt that is possible.

I think this team would compete with Cleveland, Boston and Orlando. Our starting line up is as good as good as it gets and for the first time maybe ever we could consistently go 9 or 10 deep. Joe would no longer have to play 40 minutes a night and you could reduce Bibby’s minutes as well.

What do you think and is it even a realistic trade?

icalhoun

July 9th, 2009
10:52 am

Sekou,

Is Marcin Gortat really worth 43% more thatn Pachulia? Does he put up 43% better numbers? Am i missing something?

And are you at all concerned about the logjam at the 1? What do Crawford and Teague think about Bibby’s re-signing?

Thanks for all you do.

Ariose

July 9th, 2009
10:54 am

Melvin, Nah I saw it lol. I was talking to chills too hehehehe…

darrell starks

July 9th, 2009
10:56 am

We have to get something for chill before he become a free agent and walk a way for nothing, he have allready said he will no longer play for the hawks so package him with some one ali horford and bring in amar’e.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

KevinA

July 9th, 2009
10:57 am

Morris, Solo, Hunter Evans Gardner, Flip,West, If you
add all their Salaries together (rounded) = 7.5 million.

Crawford = 9 million.

7.5 + 9 = 16.5 mil

Keepers New Salary Old Salary Drop

Solo 1 million .78 Hunter .442

Evans 2.5 2.5 Gardner .712

Flip 2.5 1.5 West .712

Gooden 2.5 1.7 Morris .865

Chills 6 4.4 Crawford 9.0

Total 14.5

Using these numbers we have 2 million left for an upgrade.
I like the Chills/Gooden vrs Crawford.

With a Gooden signing we could do a Evans or Solo upgrade.

darrell starks

July 9th, 2009
11:00 am

I am big horford fan but i see al horford game being and avg player nothing more or less i asy trade him why his value is high.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

Melvin

July 9th, 2009
11:02 am

Ariose,

Did chills respond to you? On the work computer, I can’t get to that site.

O'Brien

July 9th, 2009
11:03 am

Abe,

I could be wrong, but Wasn’t Vince Carter on those NJ teams (with J.Kidd and Richard Jefferson) that went to all those conference finals (when Byron Scott was the coach)?

niremetal

July 9th, 2009
11:03 am

Podge,

BYC rules and Josh’s trade kicker make that trade impossible.

Samuel

July 9th, 2009
11:04 am

Speaking of Odom. Looks like the Lakers are offering him no more than we gave ZaZa. Is there any way we can do a sign and trade(Chill=Cali native) or outright sign this guy? He would really help us on many fronts.

I love Marvin but he’s no L. Odom.

The Eastern Conference moves are very interesting. Many of them involve “VETS” so health will be a major issue. I love Shaq so I will be pulling for the Cavs out of the Big Three. If KG is all the way back, I think they(Celtics) have to be the favorites.

I also like Vince to Orlando. I know Turk had a good year and is very good but he “IS NO VINCE CARTER”. You’re talking about a Hall of Famer and one of the most unstoppable players “EVER”. He showed last year that he still has something left in the tank so I don’t believe you can go wrong, however, anything short of a return trip to the Finals will be blamed on this move.

Have to go with the Lakers again out West with the Spurs closing the gap and Denver rounding out their Big Three.

I really can’t see any moves out there that would change the Big Three pecking order on either side.

niremetal

July 9th, 2009
11:05 am

O’Brien,

No – the Nets’ last appearance past the second round was in 02-03. VC was traded there in…(*drum roll*) 2004.

RA

July 9th, 2009
11:06 am

I say that the Cavs will have a clogged drain where their cuts to the hole used to be. I think that Cleveland has become more physical, BUT I also think that they are now more vulnerable to smaller faster ballclubs. I’m still not sold on Ariza either. Maybe he works out, maybe he doesn’t. I couldn’t care less. Anything that takes Orlando’s attention away from the Howard in the lane is a plus for every other team. I don’t care how much scores, but by all mean, I pray that he’ll shoot because every shot for him is one less for Howard. Now, let me be clear, nothing that occurs west of the Mississippi River concerns me. That having been said, I’m very comfortable with how the Hawks have proceeded this summer. Very quitely Sund pulled off a major coup with the Crawford traid, dumping one has been and one may-never-be for a proven scorer and not losing any draft picks in the balance. That was as genius as anything that I’ve seen this summer. What would be great now is if we could do a sign and trade with Murray and Chills or Murray or Chills, and just get Mo Williams back into the fold. All things considered, I think the summer is going swimmingly.

KevinA

July 9th, 2009
11:06 am

What did Chills have to say

Ariose

July 9th, 2009
11:07 am

Melvin, No I think he logged off(hopefully to kget a deal done lol), hopefully he will reply later.

RA

July 9th, 2009
11:08 am

Oh, forgive all the spelling and grammar errors in my last post. I really am better than that…

Ariose

July 9th, 2009
11:08 am

My postts aren’t going through…….thus, I am frusrated…

MannyT

July 9th, 2009
11:09 am

Sekou, the 4 team trade is a beautiful thing in the business of basketball. For all the Jesus for Judas trades that get posted on blogs, I always ask myself–why would the team getting Judas do that deal? The article you linked gives good reason for those other teams to get in the deal.

Over the cap, new to luxury tax Orlando picked up a 7 mil trade exception by playing nice in this deal. Even though they are in luxury tax land, they can swing a better deal to help their team in the next year than the Hawks. The Grizz probably made real $$$ by facilitating the trade once they buy out Stackhouse. That’s why you GM all the time–even when you have nothing much to do–because opportunity is always there IF you see it.

We still have our MLE and we need to add a frontcourt player. Either we get him the normal free agent way or we deal Chills and/or Andersen’s rights to get it done. They are the only low use assets that we have.

…and I like Cleveland’s move to pick up Anthony Parker. It’s not flashy, but it gives them someone to defend a larger 2 guard like Joe. He’s not a star, but he is bigger than their other guards and probably came at a reasonable price.

BWAF

KevinA

July 9th, 2009
11:12 am

The format didn’t work on the on the 10.57 post, sorry about that.

A Tribe Called Quest

July 9th, 2009
11:16 am

Since the Hawks won’t trade Smoove + Chillz for Amare/Bosh (who both apparently suck according to some of the geniuses on this blog), we need SMOOVE AND HORFORD TO STEP THEIR GAMES UP. NO MORE 8 & 8 SEASONS FROM HORFORD.

I WANT TO SEE THEM BIGGER, BETTER POST MOVES, BETTER SHOOTING, AND SMOOVE TO LEARN HOW TO DRIBBLE THE BALL

darrell starks

July 9th, 2009
11:18 am

Right now with the current hawks roster the salary is 58mill if we trade horford and chill for amar’e it will be 63mill.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

Spud Webb

July 9th, 2009
11:19 am

I’d love to have flip back, I thought he was underated last year.
I like a few others think SA is back, not sure if the knock on Blair (2nd round) was his knees? Either way, I think he was a 1st round talent and his knees should hold up playing 20 minutes off the bench. WTF do i know though!!!!!
Go Hawks, great offseason!!! Keep it up!