Super Tuesday
The Hawks are the midst of trying to negotiate deals for both Marvin Williams (left) and Zaza Pachulia (center), two key free agents needed to help the Hawks keep pace in the constantly improving (and I mean by the day) Eastern Conference.
HAWKSVILLE - NBA free agents can put pen to paper Wednesday, consummating deals that have been in the works for days (and perhaps even longer for some).
The heavy lifting for the Hawks, however, comes a day early.
Hawks general manager Rick Sund is on his way to Washington D.C., where he will sit down with the representatives for three of the Hawks’ key free agents (Marvin Williams, Zaza Pachulia and Josh Childress) to hammer out the details of at least a couple of potential deals.
With Mike Bibby’s new deal needing only signatures, the Hawks can devote all the attention and resources necessary to the aforementioned players, and yes, that includes Childress (whose saga might not play out until after the July 15 deadline he has to either opt out of his contract with Olympiakos to return home and to the NBA. David Andersen, another player on the Hawks’ shopping list, has the same clause in his Spanish contract).
Folks keep asking what’s the latest on (All THE HAWKS’ SUMMER TARGETS)? So here’s a rundown, early on a day I’m dubbing Super Tuesday, of where things stand with the key players (and for a sobering look at just how crazy free agency is working this summer, check out this dagger from ESPN Insider and Alpharetta’s own John Hollinger):
MARVIN WILLIAMS: Using Charlie Villanueva’s deal in Detroit (5 years, $40 million-range) as your guide, things should get much easier to decipher in the curious case of Marvin Williams. With a qualifying offer of $7.5 million, we’re not talking about anything out of the ordinary her for a guy that’s proved to be a valuable starter the past three years. Finding another 6-9 starting small forward that fits the way he does on this team will not be easy, despite all of the suggestions around here to the contrary. Respected and prolific colleague Mark Bradley has suggested many times that if any of the Hawks’ remaining building blocks was expendable it was Marvin. But as I look across the free agent landscape, I cannot co-sign that theory. Not with the free agent moves/trades that have gone on in the Eastern Conference since draft night. Not with Hedo Turkoglu in Toronto now and Vince Carter in his old spot in Orlando. And not with Villanueva in Detroit and the addition of Rasheed Wallace in Boston. The length the Hawks used to their advantage across the frontline with Williams, Josh Smith and Al Horford is more critical than ever. Even in one of the many proposed sign-and-trade deals offered up around these parts, I don’t see the Hawks adding the piece that could take Marvin’s place on this roster (in fit, size and temperament … three crucial factors that Marvin brings that go largely unnoticed by the public). The Hawks have made clear their preference for Marvin to remain a part of the core of this team and I see no reason why that shouldn’t happen. I can’t see any scenario where he is not a part of this team in the future.
ZAZA PACHULIA: Much has been made in the past 72 hours about Zaza’s impending departure and his being replaced by Andersen, or a combination of players that includes the Australian big man. Slow down with that one. Sources tell me that while initially things didn’t look too good with the offer that was presented to him by the Hawks, the sides are working their way toward more agreeable terms (we’re talking slightly north of the $16 million over four years he signed for the last time he was a free agent but decidedly south of the $33 million over five years Marcin Gortat is expected to receive from Dallas). And in an Eastern Conference littered with bigs like Dwight Howard in Orlando, Shaquille O’Neal in Cleveland and now Wallace, Kevin Garnett and Kendrick Perkins in Boston (and that’s just on the teams that finished ahead of the Hawks in the standings last season), that’s a good thing. Because the Hawks can ill-afford to lose a player like Zaza. He’s the only real bruiser on the roster. He’ll set a hard pick and has shown he’s not afraid to mix it up with the likes of Garnett and Howard. And while I’m not heavy into the stats that seem to guide so many people’s opinions about players, I do believe that some numbers tell a far different story than what the heart and mind can. There were six regular season games and three playoff games during the 2008-2009 season where Zaza played 30-plus minutes. He averaged 9.8 points, 10.1 rebounds (and 4.1 offensive rebounds) in those games. That means when he was needed to play above and beyond his pay grade, Pachulia delivered.
JOSH CHILDRESS: Like Andersen, Childress would do better financially (at least in the next year or two) by returning to Greece for another season with Olympiakos. But if he’s intent on returning to the NBA this summer, and there are indications that he would indeed love to return, things could get tricky. Childress has already visited Milwaukee. And the Bucks could present him with an offer sheet and gamble that the Hawks might not match it (fat chance). The obvious solution for both sides would be a sign-and-trade deal (the starting salary for Childress wouldn’t even be the full mid-level of $5.6 million, though the total contract would be nearly $31 million over five years). The Bucks have all the necessary tools to make something like that happen. Whatever happens, the Hawks need to close the door on the Childress saga that began last summer during his first round of restricted free agency. His jersey number was given away last summer (to Mo Evans) in a way that should have signaled the end of his time with the Hawks to all of us. I know I’ve spent much of the last year plotting hypothetical scenarios in which he could return to the Hawks. I realize now, finally, it’s just not going to happen. So if there is any way to salvage a player (Bruce Bowen has been mentioned) and a possible second-round draft pick out of the deal, the Hawks could finally walk away from the entire mess with some measure of satisfaction.
Resolve two of the three issues above by July 15 and the Hawks will have made some serious headway into a summer that’s long from over. The roster still needs filling out. And that might not come until much later in the summer and possibly even training camp, where a hungry free agent pickup like Mario West won roster spots in each of the past two camps.
The Hawks will still have the resources to chase down another big man (or possibly two) to fill out the rotation, which is still in need of fortification. But the heavy lifting starts today in D.C.
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636 comments Add your comment
truhawksfan12
July 7th, 2009
7:12 am
are there any undrafted free agents that the hawks are looking at
Mike
July 7th, 2009
7:32 am
Sekou, any word on the terms for Bibby? I’m glad they’re bringing him back, but I hope it’s a reasonable deal. I was very happy to see that it sounds like they will avoid overpaying Marvin and Zaza.
As for Childress, I still don’t get it. Paying Bruce Bowen $4 million a year to sit on the bench is not a positive thing (Bowen used to be a fine player, but I’m not sure how he cracks the Hawks’ current rotation behind Johnson, Marvin, Crawford, and Evans). That’s exactly the kind of contract everyone else is trying to get rid of. Why should the Hawks give up something to get it — especially when for nearly the same money they could have Childress? Maybe he just won’t sign with them, but they shouldn’t take back a bad contract. If they’re going to do it they should insist on a first-round pick, though it might have to be protected somewhat. And by the way, does he really want to play in Milwaukee over Atlanta, where there is a good city and a competitive team? Come on, Chills, the fans want you back in Atlanta! If necessary they should trade Evans to make room, though I do like Evans. I’d rather have Childress than the combination of Evans and Bowen.
Mike
July 7th, 2009
7:38 am
Sekou, I know you said the Hawks won’t have a summer-league team, but will Jeff Teague play with anyone else’s squad? It looks like some teams are including players from other teams on their rosters (here’s a link to an espn list: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=2009orlandosummerleaguerosters).
thanks…..
Lacsho
July 7th, 2009
7:40 am
Thanks for the update Sekou. I’ve been checking out your twitter page quite often looking for new updates. I’m a little disappointed about the Bibby signing; I rather have Andre Miller for two years, and then let Teague run team. I’m still a firm believer that this team needs a facilitator at the point, not another Bibby.
I think Frye and J.Jack would be nice pick ups for this young team. Hell I’d love to have Birdman on this team. I think he would fit in perfect. The Hawks would average about five blocks a game with Birdman and Smoove at the helm.
I’m starting a new job today, so I’m out like Palin.
Peace to all of the regulars!!!! (you know who you are)
Big Ray
July 7th, 2009
7:45 am
Sounds like today will be interesting. I hope some serious headway is made.
Wabe,
From last blog, I don’t assume that Shaq going to the Cavs does anything to make them better. What I KNOW is that his addition to that team makes things tougher on us. We’ve had issues matching up with bigger front lines. Their front line just got even bigger, even if it did get older and slower.
The only way to really combat that is to run more, as the Cavs would not be able to keep up. Or, we could keep playing the same old offense that Woody likes, from the half court. While some may think there is no problem with our offense (you’re crazy if that’s what you think), how good do you feel about Horford and Smith trying to do their work on the block against a 7′1″ O’Neal and a 7′3″ Ilgauskas.
Yeah, let’s do that. This team is built to run. Always has been. Time to incorporate that more, and in the appropriate circumstances.
Big Ray
July 7th, 2009
7:48 am
Lacsho,
Good to see you around. Good luck with the new job!
I hope we can leverage a better player for our team than Bowen.
macaroni tony
July 7th, 2009
7:49 am
Great update Sekou,
It would be great if we could get ZaZa back and then go after D. Anderson next. With both of them on our roster then our bench would be alot deeper. A deep bench will be the key for us with all of the injuries that we have had last year. But I can’t wait to see what happens Go Hawks
tbhawksfan
July 7th, 2009
7:50 am
“The roster still needs filling out. And that might not come until much later in the summer and possibly even training camp, where a hungry free agent pickup like Mario West won roster spots in each of the past two camps”
I’m so looking forward to this senario; waiting until training camp to add a hungry player like rio. Can hardly wait.
I don’t like the idea of trading Chil for a bad contract and a very weak pick. Gotta either get a first and an expiring contributing player, a bad contract and a lottery pick, or contributing players.
Either Zaza and another big or no Zaza and two more bigs, with one at least as good as Zaza and the other better than Solo.
Zaza / Andersen would do. Get something positive for Chils. Sign Bibby, keep MW on board and we’re looking at a nice off-season.
Sekou Smith
July 7th, 2009
7:51 am
Stay tuned Mike. Update on Bibby is coming shortly this morning. And Teague is not slated to play with anyone else’s summer league team. I don’t get it myself. Why not allow the kid to get some work in with another team, but my understanding is we’ll see him in the mini-camp later this month and that’s it.
Ernest
July 7th, 2009
7:58 am
Thanks for the update! It is interesting reading comments of the ‘naysayers’ out there regarding the process. The Hawks have a plan and are working though it now. I hope we can come to a multi year agreement with Marvin and ZaZa does will not compromise our ability to sign JJ and Horford going forward. We have a GREAT core in place and locking them up also gives us the flexibility for future trades, if we need to tweak the roster further.
I agree with Mike, if the team is able to make a deal with Milwaukee, I’d rather it be a future 1st (it could be protected) rather than take back salary.
This may sound like a strange question but can you shed any insight regarding the Hawks thought on RandMo? Him not getting PT when Horford was out was telling in my opinion. Is he simply a practice player and/or bench fodder or does he have a shot at developing and getting PT?
Mike
July 7th, 2009
8:03 am
How about a S&T with Childress to Portland for Travis Outlaw? They need a 3 and we need frontcourt depth; Outlaw has basically the same contract as Bowen ($4 mill in the last year). I know they want to make a bigger splash, but they could still do that.
Sekou Smith
July 7th, 2009
8:09 am
Randolph’s window is closing Ernest. He signed a two-year deal last summer, so if he wants to make an impact he has to make some serious noise in training camp this year. If not … who knows? He has the needed size but has yet to earn any significant time.
mountain_jim
July 7th, 2009
8:10 am
Thanks for the update, Sekou. I am sure you are aware of the activity around here as we await rumours and news on this offseason. I also do not want a Bowen/bad-contract for Chills. He was a lottery pick, Hawks should get a first rounder for him, at least a major contributor…
I see no update of what’s really happening with Andersen here – I know ZaZa comes first, but have the Hawks made contact or an offer with Andersen?
swatguy
July 7th, 2009
8:11 am
Hey Sekou,
What about Flip?
And I hate to see Chillz officially out.
I think Charlie’s contract was a bit high. Especially since ‘Sheed, Ron Ron and Trevor signed for less.
Big Tuesday indeed.
chuckw/deadjournalist
July 7th, 2009
8:15 am
It should be an interesting couple of days. I don’t really have anything constructive to add to the dialog at this point but I didn’t want to go completely MIA for several days.
I will say this, with the problems the Hawks have had with Vince Carter over the years, they still don’t have a lock-down wing that could shut him and other high-scoring 2/3’s down.
And I’m going to stay on my Jamaal Magloire kick as the third big man off the bench because having six hard, frustrating, infuriating fouls on the bench would be worth the investment.
It’s too bad Kendrick Perkins isn’t available …
Paul
July 7th, 2009
8:17 am
Even if we do sign ZaZa, I’d like us to go ahead and make a swing at David Andersen. What’s the likelihood do you feel Sekou that we make a valid attempt at Andersen even if we get ZaZa?
dear zaza, | Atlanta Metblogs
July 7th, 2009
8:23 am
[...] know the hawks are talking to you. sekou smith told me so. i hope you really, really think hard about their offer. this is going to be a great [...]
G-Man
July 7th, 2009
8:31 am
Hey guys check out Sekou’s new article about Bibby officially resigning with the team. I think you will be pleased at the expense of the deal.
Sekou Smith
July 7th, 2009
8:37 am
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/hawks/stories/2009/07/07/bibby_hawks.html
Ray S
July 7th, 2009
8:40 am
Sekou, Any chance the Hawks could get Ramon Sessions and Malik Allen from the Bucks for Chills, in a sign and trade?
dap01
July 7th, 2009
8:40 am
Thanks for the update: What price would it take to get Anderson over here? It would be nice to have someone to stretch the defense a few minutes a game.
Sekou Smith
July 7th, 2009
8:40 am
Don’t know about that Paul. Hard to see where both of those guys get quality minutes in the same rotation. But they’d be a heck of a 1-2 punch as your backup center and power forward, respectively.
Mike
July 7th, 2009
8:44 am
Nice job on the Bibby story, Sekou, and keeping track of the others.
It sounds to me like they reached a bit on Bibby. No way he gets that much from anybody else in the league right now. It’s not outrageous, but it’s not great, either.
KC
July 7th, 2009
8:44 am
Bibby – 3years for 18 million. I like those numbers a lot.
Now if we can just get the inside depth squared away I would be happy with the offseason.
JM
July 7th, 2009
8:54 am
Got give it to Rick Sund. Just saw him down on Marietta and asked if the Bibby deal had got done. He asked me if I wanted it done and when I said yes, he gave this coy look. Minutes later I’m reading Sekou’s new article.
Samuel
July 7th, 2009
8:58 am
I do like the way “My BOY RICK” does business. Not all this talk and rumors, just get it done.
Cuz,
The Bucks can keep Bruce Bowen. He won’t have any coat tails to ride here and officials wont look the other way as he “MUGS” defenders like they did in SA. I would much rather have Gadzuric.
No need to over pay for Flip since we have Crawford. Sign ZaZa and another Big and Call it a day.
MannyT
July 7th, 2009
8:59 am
Sekou, thanks for the pre-signing day updates and the reality check that the Hawksville Blogtropolis needs during the offseason.
I’m not an ESPN insider, but it looks like Hollinger sees in the NBA what is real in most of the economy right now. If you have cash in the bank (i.e. cap space) you can almost make your own rules and pick up some serious bargains. No one wants to overspend or get their credit held up for 10 days (RFA offer sheet) when the free agent sale window could be short for the major bargain players.
After the Crawford deal, I would contend that Zaza & Marvin were the most important of our free agents because there is not a decent fall back option for their roles currently on the roster. That deal was good leverage/insurance for the Hawks.
The Bibby deal makes sense. Not sure what that means for the more cost effective Flip Murray.
If I’m Zaza, I could see MLE money for 4 years which comes out in the neighborhood of $25 mil. I’d at least want 3 years. I think people forget that he is relatively young (25) which means still more upside potential for a big man. The better news is we have his Bird rights so we still have flexibility to bring in a free agent big. It would be nice if we could give some of that MLE to Flip for 2-4 years and the rest to a big that would complement Zaza off the bench.
The only reason I’d be nervous about Marvin would be the long term health of his back.
I would hope that a Childress sign & trade would get us an inside big instead of a wing player.
It’s a shame that we didn’t have 1/2 a summer league team in Orlando. Close enough to save money and if we split a team like Philly/NJ did we could have auditioned several guys to help fill out the roster. I hope the scouts are camped out in Las Vegas & Orlando.
Sekou, a decent summer article might exist in how we get the new guy(s) at the end of the bench without the benefit of a summer league team. I know the NBA has tampering rules for players under contract, but it has to be a little different for summer league undrafted invitees.
I could imagine some of Sund’s scouts working the summer league night life with iPhones streaming YouTube videos supplied by Ariose of club life in the ATL as a part of the recruiting pitch
BWAF
Ry
July 7th, 2009
8:59 am
Sekou, SportsIllustrated.com has an article that stated a Spanish newspaper reported David Anderson will walk to join the NBA and the Hawks. Any chatter about this or is it pure speculation? Thanks
Daniel
July 7th, 2009
9:03 am
Sekou-
Thanks for the update. I am very pleased with the overall Bibby contract numbers. Is the third year an option year?
If we trade Childress do we have to pick up contracts in equal value or can you get a Bowen and release him?
How about a lottery protected first round pick? (I could live with that)
I would also be very happy with Marvin at 5 years for 40 mil or so.
I am with Paul that if we can get Anderson and Za to fill out the roster; I would be very happy with the summer.
Bibby, Teague
JJ, Crawford
Williams, Evans
Smith, Anderson
Horford, Za
plus Solo and West
*** I am good to go with that roster.
MannyT
July 7th, 2009
9:03 am
Sekou, if you had Andersen & Pachulia on the same team, then Samuel would have to get Clyde to make him an I love Big Euros t-shirt
BWAF
Kevin
July 7th, 2009
9:07 am
Sekou. Why wouldn’t the Hawks go after some bangers like, Paul Milsap, Brandon Bass, or Chris Wilcox? Also, I can assume with the Bibby signing we have close the book on Jarrett Jack coming, right?
Ernest
July 7th, 2009
9:07 am
Props should go to Sund and the Hawks if the reported deal of Bibby for 3 yrs/$18 million is accurate! That is a bargain to get someone of Bibby’s caliber at that price, especially when you consider he is coming off a contract where he made $14 million/year. That also says something about Bibby, that perhaps he has a comfort level with the team that he was willing to take a ‘home town discount’ to stay. I’ll admit I was skeptical we’d be able to keep Bibby once we acquired Crawford but this will definitely help maintain continuity with the team next year! Now Sund can focus on ZaZa and Marvin. Hopefully the market has helped to determine what their offers should be.
This puts the Hawks in a GREAT position to sign JJ next year without compromising the cap. Thanks for keeping us informed along with hosting this blog, Sekou!
ILL-logical
July 7th, 2009
9:19 am
First, great reporting SS! Now, what about the coaching staff ?
smartguy
July 7th, 2009
9:19 am
Bibby sucks. Wait til a year or two from now, when he’ll take the role of Craig Claxton. Either way thats way too much money.
Big Ray, haven’t you been around long enough to know Woody ain’t gonna change his crappy coaching ways. I would rather see us running as well, but Mike Woodson could be slapped in the face with better coaching techniques, and he would still stand there with his arms folded and that same dumb look on his face!
Mike is back
July 7th, 2009
9:26 am
I admired Mike Bibby for his admiration of the Hawks…if those numbers are true…I would like to thank Mr.Bibby for showing the ATL some looooooooooooooooooooooooove!!!!!!!!!
Nire, YO BOY IS ON FIRE…OOOOOOUCH!!!!!!!
Melvin
July 7th, 2009
9:28 am
If all the Bucks are offer is Bruce “Over the hill” Bowen and a 2nd round pick then Sund should slap the phone down in their face. And if Sund accept that deal then I will come down to Philips and kick his you know what myself. We need to makeup with Chills and get him 82 newly press #1 uniforms and tell Mo Evans to find another number or take a hike…
Maybe we Hawks fans should start a campaign for Chills:
Bring back the Fro’ to the ATL…
yessir
July 7th, 2009
9:29 am
Smartguy, why are you always so negative? Even Clyde say some positive things. Smartguy=Dumbguy
Dan
July 7th, 2009
9:35 am
smartguy…you are now, officially, dumbguy. I call you this because you are not smart.
Glad Bibby is now back, for real this time! Also, Sund seems to be moving fast this summer. Nice to see. After all the waiting last summer on the Josh Smith contract, I figured it would be September before we knew as much as we do now.
Sekou, I am in DC today. Do you think Sund would want my help at the negotiating table?
PowerBall
July 7th, 2009
9:35 am
It should be an interesting couple of days. I don’t really have anything PowerBall constructive to add to the dialog at this point but I didn’t want to go completely MIA for several days.
hard to figure out
July 7th, 2009
9:36 am
Sekou,
As Sund looks at all the moves being made by teams who finished the year higher in the standings, (Orlando, Boston, Clevland) than us, why do you think we aren’t pulling the trigger on some big names? Philadelphia will be better with Eddie Jordan as coach and getting Elton Brand back, Miami was young last year, will only get better and still pushed us to the limit. Sund can’t possibly look at our line up and feel we will be much better than a five or six seed in the east. I say package Josh Smith and a future first round pick, plus Solo or R. Morris for Stoudemire. With Stoudemire our first round pick would end up being in the late twenty’s a player who may or may not make it, so give it up. Why do other teams who have been to the championship within the last five years continue to make noise and moves, but we concentrate on average players?
Jim
July 7th, 2009
9:37 am
Signing Bibby makes sense and the money was probably about right. My problem is Woody– you can kiss Teague minutes goodby and 2 years from now we will have another Law situation. I hope Sund puts some incentive on Woody to try to bring Teague along the way he should, but with this being last year on Woody contract I doubt this will happen.
Ernest
July 7th, 2009
9:37 am
Hey Sekou, do you think you may be able to provide an update from today’s meetings sometime later this evening? Who knows, based on what you find out, it may warrant starting another blog. Anyhow thanks again for the insight!
Mitch
July 7th, 2009
9:42 am
Great posts, Sekou! You ARE the man!
Bibby is a good fit with this team and with Woody. While the need remains for a penetrating point guard, Bibby’s flair for the game and his veteran savvy make his impact with the team significant. The contract is a fair one, too, so kudos to Rick Sund.
Getting Marvin signed to a multi-year deal would be sweet. I honestly believe that at his age and rate of improvement, he will continue to emerge as one of the most promising small forwards in the NBA. I was very happy with his play last year, especially the way he knocked down big shots in clutch situations. On defense, he needs to keep improving his understanding of pursuit angles and help responsibilities, but he’s already pretty tough on the ball.
When ZaZa is in shape, he is one heckuva player. It looks like he is starting to understand that and I think the Boston playoff series two years ago was a huge motivator for him. He had tyo learn some things the hard way, but he came back last year a stronger, more fit and better all-around player. And he’s still what 25?
What I don’t understand about Childress is the Hawks, as you say, would match any mid-level offer he gets from Milwaukee or anyone else. That’s great. So, why then don’t the Hawks just make a strong move to sign and keep him? Adding him back to the improved talent on this team would be better than I believe any of us realizes. But, if the Hawks do decide to sign and trade him, they had better get more than Bruce Bowen and a 2nd rounder, as my pals have already stated.
And I am starting to get excited about Andersen. It seems his addition looks more and more possible.
And for some reason, I have a gut feeling that Sund will even find a way to re-sign Flip…and will feature a second unit of 1-Murray/Teague; 2-Crawford/Teague, 3-Evans/Crawford, 4-Andersen, 5-Pachulia.
Thanks, Sekou.
Mitch (MA)
Daniel
July 7th, 2009
9:45 am
MannyT- I share your concerns about Marvin’s back, but I think we have to roll with it. I do NOT want to sign him to a QOF, we need him to at least have a long term contract, that could at least be valuable as a trade assest.
mountain_jim
July 7th, 2009
9:46 am
You folks wanting to give away the farm for a short-term rental of Amare should have learned from the Braves trade for Teixeira a couple of years ago..
Cutler
July 7th, 2009
9:47 am
I don’t understand why we can’t entice Childress by offering up Marvin’s starting job. A sign and trade with Marvin would yield much more and there is no drop off by allowing childress to take over the 3 spot. With Crawfords offense off the bench, we will be better off with Childress’ driving ability, hustle and ability to play off the ball. Marvin can do nothing but take wide open jump shots. Thoughts?
Daniel
July 7th, 2009
9:51 am
I still don’t understand why everyone is so worried about Teague getting pt. If he performs, then he will develop. The same people complain that we are not getting a “superstar”, which is it people?
BTW- Amare Stoudamire is NOT a significant upgrade over Josh Smith, plus he is has significant injuries. Also, Josh Smith is NOT going to be traded; the ASG would have to pay him an extra 6 milion which ain’t going to happen.
Dang, do we have to keep having the same conversation everyday?
Daniel
July 7th, 2009
9:51 am
I meant he has significant injuries. (sorry)
jerrywest
July 7th, 2009
9:51 am
Bibby made 20 mil in the last 1.3 years and he will make 18 mil in the next 3. That’s 38 mil for 5 post seasons. For what he has already done in the last year and a half, we shouldn’t complain much if he pulls a Craig Claxton in his last season. The new JT should be ready to take off by then anyway.
If Andersen is a Okur clone, we can play an effective big lineup of DA+Horf+Smoove when Marvin rests. DA can be the outside shooting center who would play like a SF on offense.
No dead weight salary like Bowen please. We can just match Chillz MLE, and then he’ll have good trade value in the mid-season or any time in the future. Why sell him for pennies now?
Ben
July 7th, 2009
9:54 am
I would like to go ahead and sign Marvin to a fair/long contract.
Although I would like someone tougher than ZaZa, I will take him now that bigs are running low.
Uggh, Childress for Bowen and a 2nd? What about Kurt Thomas or Amir Johnson instead of Bowen?
Samuel, you must be kidding about Gadzuric! He makes 14 mill over the next 2 seasons. One of the worst contracts out there.
Cleveland has interest in Childress. What about getting JJ Hickson in return? Or their late 1st round pick?
Does Portland have any interest in Childress? They can take on his salary and not give us back as much since they are under the cap. Batum? Picks? Pritchard is always looking to deal.
It seems that the Childress situation being out there til the 15th of this month is going to hold up some of our deals. I hope that does not make us miss out on some players.
What is the latest between the Atlanta Spirit and Belkin?
Hawksfanatic
July 7th, 2009
9:55 am
Sekou, do you have any idea if Bibby’s contract is flat, inclining, or declining in salary? I hope its declining but either way its still a good deal.
Anakin Joe
July 7th, 2009
9:56 am
We saw some guys with decent value and pedigree drop to the 2nd round a few weeks ago. While I don’t like the idea of watching a lottery pick be turned into a role player and 2nd rounder, I agree that it may be time to cut bait and move on. Bowen brings a single-minded and determined defensive intensity, something that is surely missing. He is also rumored to be a guy who “pushes the envelope” when it comes to defensive play. Maybe he could teach some of our guys how to study and harrass opposing players (I imagine Mario West would be ecstatic to learn from Bowen).
Bibby’s contract sounds right to me. Especially in light of Kidd’s 3 yr./$25M deal. Good job, Sund.
Mac
July 7th, 2009
9:56 am
Glad they re-upped Bibby. Despite lots of contention among bloggers that Bibby could be easily replaced, the fact is, it was Bibby who helped life the Hawks, not someone else.
So, unless they could somehow get Dermarr Johnson back on the court, Bibby was the way to go. (Inside joke).
jerrywest
July 7th, 2009
9:56 am
Cutler – I think Marvin will be a stud. However, I think Chillz fit in well with Crawford running the PG. JC+JC+JJ will give us 3 effective ball handlers, and JJ+Jamal will cover up Chillz’s disabilities, and let him maximize his positive skills.
Ben
July 7th, 2009
10:00 am
Folks,
Flip is gone! While he was very good for us last year, the addition of Crawford, drafting of Teague, and resigning of Bibby means he will not be a Hawk next year.
Can we please stop mentioning signing him? I want his money to go to some bangers!
Show me state
July 7th, 2009
10:02 am
This is to those Bibby haters…. This team CANNOT and i mean CANNOT function properly without this guy. I can’t remember what game it was i think it was the Clippers game and the Hawks got blowed out at HOME without Bibby. This guy is too comfortable with this team and for the team to continue to get better they need him. The Hawks don’t have time to experiment with Crawford and Teague at starting point right now because if they do it won’t be pleasant. Not saying they can’t get it done just saying that the team needs Bibby holding down the pg position at this point. Off the bench the guard rotation would be perfect with Crawford, Teague, and hopefully Flip can comeback. I mean the backcourt would be crowded but much much better.
GeeMack
July 7th, 2009
10:05 am
WOW! We signed Mike Bibby what a great off season pick up. Lets see the LA got Artest, Clev. got Shaq, Orl. got VC, SA got Jefferson, Wash. got MMiller, Bos. got Sheed, and the best we could do with money to spend is JCrawford & Bibby. Well at least we will make the playoffs as a 5th, 6th, 7th or 8th seed. According to Sekou thats great progress. This is how you build to championship. Someone should tell the Lakers and Celtics they ar4e doing it the wrong way.
WILD BILL
July 7th, 2009
10:09 am
Trade Josh S. for Amare, start Marvin in his old spot, resign ZaZa to backup, move Horford to the #4 spot, shoulda kept Flip & let Bibby walk. Starters would be Amare, Horford, Marvin, Joe J. & Crawford, gotta make a move for a real #5 or theyre done
Daniel
July 7th, 2009
10:09 am
I would imagine if you trade Childress for Bowen and a 2cd rounder, you then just outright release Bowen to keep his salary off the books. So essentially you would be trading Childress for a 2cd round pick. It does kinda hurt, but I guess this is a something better than nothing situation.
Hawksfanatic
July 7th, 2009
10:10 am
MannyT, signing a RFA will not freeze your capspace for 10 days. That was the old CBA, the current one allows the team with the Right of First Refusal up to 7 days to match the contract.
MannyT
July 7th, 2009
10:11 am
Cutler, watch some old tape and/or stats. Marvin & Chills have different styles that are useful. However, the flood of backcourt players duplicates some of Chills (defensive) use. He is too light to guard the heavy guys like LeBron. We are lacking in bigs. While you may not be a Marvin fan, he is big enough and effective enough to guard the premier SFs in the league. He also makes them work a little on defense because he can shoot and does drive enough to draw a good number of fouls. Marvin can also fill in at the PF in a pinch.
Keep the guy that you have and stop playing the future ex-ex wife game with Chills. Let him go. Just get something for him.
Ben,
Flip made 1.5 mil last season. At best his money gets you some BA. You need more to get the NG.
If Woody commits to playing the most effective players, there is a chance that Flip will return if there are multiple years in the deal with a reasonable raise.
BWAF
Volman
July 7th, 2009
10:13 am
GeeMack, somebody should tell you that you’re an idiot.
You’re an idiot.
Rick Sund's nephew
July 7th, 2009
10:14 am
I think Childress to Bucks for Amir Johnson and a 2nd round pick would be perfect. Johnson would be a great backup to Marvin and Josh, something the Hawks have really lacked the last few years since we traded Boris Diaw away and let Childress go to Europe. Even Shellhead Williams provided at least “something” off the bench.
Volman
July 7th, 2009
10:15 am
I just don’t see Flip coming back with Bibby, Teague, Crawford, and Joe around…. Just don’t see it. Heck, I love Flip to death, but I don’t see him returning unless it is VERY cheap. I do like what he brings to the table but Crawford is a Flip upgrade.
MannyT
July 7th, 2009
10:16 am
Daniel, I am in favor of signing Marvin to a multi year deal. I realize that the offer value may shift if there are concerns about his back.
My bad, Hawksfantastic. But check out how many deals get done from this Wednesday (7/8) to next Wednesday (7/15). If you sign my RFA to an offer sheet, I would probably signal to the agent what the intentions are, but I’d leave that team dangling in the wind for the full period so they could not use the cap space for other purposes.
BWAF
niremetal
July 7th, 2009
10:19 am
Daniel,
Doesn’t work that way with Bowen – his salary would stay on the books until next summer. You can’t get rid of players’ salaries that easily…if you could, the Knicks would have releasedCurry and Marbury long ago
.
On another, Sund is officially my boy now. $6M a year for Bibby? Compare that to the Mavs’ recent re-signing of JKidd. We just got a guy 5 years younger for $7M less. At the price we’re paying Bibby, he can devolve into a Steve Kerr type and he STILL wouldn’t be overpaid, because $6M/yr is the going rate for good spot-up shooters who can’t do anything else (Kapono, Korver, etc). For a veteran starting PG, that’s just a sick bargain.
We just signed Mike Bibby for a contract that pays him less than Mike James. And Mike James is actually not overpaid for a borderline-starting PG.
Damn. NOW GO GET ZAZA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
niremetal
July 7th, 2009
10:24 am
Volman,
Agreed on GeeMack. Why do some people conveniently forget that we acquired Jamal Crawford for our scrap metal when they talk about teams making “big moves” this offseason?
MsDee
July 7th, 2009
10:27 am
I’m glad we are basically keeping our core players together and just adding a couple of good players (D Anderson,Crawford& Teague) because 1st of all, we are keeping our chemitry together..2nd, look how far we got (2nd round) with not 1, not 2, but 3 of our **STARTING** players injured (Al, Marvin, & Joe (ankle)) Image if they all were healthy!! MIA would have been thru 2 games earlier and we probably would have won a game or 2 with the Cavs..so I’m very happy with our squad. Remember how the media talked bad about how the Hawks made no big change to their roster? Usually, I would say “Change is good”..but in the Hawks case “No change is Great!!”
Sautee
July 7th, 2009
10:38 am
“The Hawks have made clear their preference for Marvin to remain a part of the core of this team and I see no reason why that shouldn’t happen. I can’t see any scenario where he is not a part of this team in the future.”
Geez.
Poor Sam/Rod!
Steve
July 7th, 2009
10:38 am
Why not try and do a sign and trade with New York for David Lee with Josh Childress? Lee is only 26, went to college in Fla., and is a true banger inside. Could you imagine a frontcourt of Horford, Smith, Lee, and Zaza?
ALTAman
July 7th, 2009
10:39 am
Gotta let Flip go & be careful to not crowd the backcourt–Teague can turn out to be a real player IF he gets a shot…enough PT to get past the nerves & do what he does. Acie didn’t get the PT but it wouldn’t have mattered–he wasn’t figuring it out. Teague might be a very different story so he needs to play, somehow. Your thoughts, Sekou?
Melvin
July 7th, 2009
10:44 am
Nire,
Agreed. Hawks re-signed Bibby at great value and I think people are under estimating the Crawford acquisition just like they did with Flip last year.
MannyT,
I’m surprise to see you are putting Chills on the first bus out of A-town (LOL). I still think he has a role on this team if he choose to re-sign. Hawks do not have a legit backup for Marvin. Mo is too small. I like Mo as a 11 or 12th man (or a situational guy) but not in the regular rotation. Chills would provide the Hawks with alot of flexiblity as he could play the 1, 2 and 3 spots which would allow Crawford(PG/SG) and Teauge(PG) to play their natural positions. However, if trading him to the Bucks is going to bring Hawks Bowen or Thomas then I think they should pass b/c those are the two guys that the Bucks are rumored to release so I don’t see the value of trading a former lottery pick for them. When they could easily signed those guys once they are release. And why would the Hawks want Bowen when they already have Mo. Now a package that includes Amir Johnson and maybe a 1st round pick would be worth entertaining…
Trey J
July 7th, 2009
10:47 am
Will someone finally say we have a GM that gets it!
OK, no we didn’t get a great player but we did get Bibby back, Jamal Crawford and working on bringing back Zaza and Marvin!
I say now just get us another big that can bang and bring along our 1st round pick and it’s all gravy!
JJ doesn’t have to pound the ball so much and I dare you to double and triple team him with Jamal on the floor! The bench has gotten so much stronger. I didn’t even mention the fact that Josh and Horford are getting better every year! (Yo Josh play in the post dawg….and leave the 3 pointers for JJ or Bibby) I love the team we are building!
Keep up the good work Hawks and I will get the NBA package again this year so I can keep up with MY ATLANTA HAWKS up here in DC.
Wabe
July 7th, 2009
10:48 am
3 yrs / 18 million
i like it.
nobody see’s a future for Flip with the Hawks anymore?
could someone who may know more about salary/salary implication guess-timate how much it would take to:
1) resign Flip
2) what toll would it take on our cap? would resigning him SIGNIFICANTLY hurt the Hawks chances at aquiring a mid-level BIG (Frye, Bass, Wilcox)?
At first I didn’t see both Bibby and Flip coming back, but Sund’s been cutting some good deals, and if we could get him cheap, i think it would only HELP this team.
Would rather have a guy like Flip on the bench than a Thomas Gardner.
+ we got some critical peices we’ll need to resign next season – so i’m not sure if resigning Flip would significantly impact next year’s obstacles in any way.
anybody wanna chime in?
MannyT
July 7th, 2009
10:50 am
As long as we get Zaza and another guy for the front court, I think Woody can live with an excess of good players. When is the last time you heard a coach say I wish we had less talent?
He won’t play all of them, but he still wants to have the pantry stocked.
Lots of talent also gives Sund some flexibility in the season to make a move if needed.
Don’t hate the deep bench. That’s exactly where the Lakers found Ariza & Brown during the season. They were closer to the end where we put Mario and AC Law last season. They moved Radmanovich and put the ’stache (Morrison) at the end of the bench and the other guys stepped up.
BWAF
Anakin Joe
July 7th, 2009
10:52 am
Great point, nire. Didn’t Matt Carroll get something around $6M/year? I know that Jason Terry is making considerably more. The Bibby contract is a great deal and magnifies the brilliance of acquiring him for chump change two seasons ago. We getting 4.5 seasons of Bibby for Shelden, AJ, Lue and Lorenzen. Amazing.
ALTAman
July 7th, 2009
10:54 am
No doubt Flip is a player but I’d hate to see Teague sit. I think his upside is big but he needs PT. He’s not a Horford but isn’t everyone happy Al got his shot as a rookie? Teague is gonna beef up physically & be a nice surprise for us so I say give him a role.
Steve
July 7th, 2009
10:58 am
About Teague – on draft day (before the draft) Steve Lavin was asked who the best point guard was in the draft – he answered in 5 years it will be Jeff Teague – better than Rubio, better than Flynn, etc. He said his stock dropped because of Wake’s dissapointing performance in the 2nd half of last season. I trust Lavin – I think we got a steal!
And I hate to say it, because I like Mo’, but why not trade him and keep Childress if we can’t get anything for Childress – definitely think Childress would be an upgrade over Mo’. Then sign Andersen if you can.
12 deep PG Bibby/Murray/Teague
SG Johnson/Crawford
SF Williams/Childress
PF Smith/Andersen
C Horford/Zaza/Jones or Morris
You gotta be 10 deep in this league with injuries, and it keeps everybody fresh for the playoffs.
jerrywest
July 7th, 2009
11:01 am
Are we a contender now if we sign Zaza+Marv+Chillz+DA?
jerrywest
July 7th, 2009
11:03 am
Nire – great post at 10:19
Traceman
July 7th, 2009
11:03 am
Great news on Bibby. Right amount of years and money as far as I’m concerned. I love the Crawford signing and I think he makes us much better but I don’t think he would have replaced what Bibby brings to the team.
I really hope Sund can get Marvin and Zaza resigned to contracts in the neighborhood that Sekou is reporting and I think it makes sense that he will be able to. Marvin COULD gamble but if Sund comes in with an offer around or even slightly above what Villanueva is making, I think that a deal gets done. Marvin at anywhere from 5 yrs/$40-$45M is a fair deal to both sides. If he took the low end, I could even see giving him a player option after year 3 to allow him to renegotiate in his prime if he improves dramatically. As for Zaza, 4 yrs/$18M-$20M is a great deal for us. I’d resign him for that all day.
Finally, as for Chillz, if we can get Bibby, Marv and Zaza resigned for a combined $18M or so for next year, if I’m Sund, Chillz is DEFINITELY getting matched up to the MLE because we could still fit him in and not exceed the luxury tax threshold. I would then attempt to trade Mo for a 2nd to a team under the cap to get a little more space to add a FA big. I would LOVE a lineup of:
Al/Zaza/Morris
Smoove/FA big
Marv/Chillz
JJ/Crawford/Mario
Bibby/Teague
I think that team competes right away and if we get the right FA big (McDyess, Gooden, Wilcox, ect) we could surprise some folks.
niremetal
July 7th, 2009
11:04 am
Co-sign ALTAman. Teague is the reason I don’t want to keep Flip, moreso than the re-signing of Bibby. I don’t want Teague to be Boris Diaw v3.0 (v2.0 was Acie).
If we re-sign Marvin and Zaza, we have a solid 9-player rotation (Bibby, Teague, JJ, Crawford, Marvin, Mo, Josh, Al, Zaza). Add an extra frontcourt rotation player (Andersen, McDyess, Foyle, etc) and we can call it a summer. Woody will be forced to sink or swim VERY quickly with depth like that.
GeeMack
July 7th, 2009
11:04 am
Hey Volman! Based on your comments you seem to have some solid knowledge on basketball. Tell me in your honest opinion that in a 7 game series we could beat a healthy Bos, Clev, Orl, with a healthy hawks team. If we can I will gladly take the idiot title. However in my 25 yrs of watching the NBA I have seen 1 team make it past the 2nd round without a legitimate superstar. That team the 03 Pistons, and that’s the only team to win a title without a legit superstar player.
Bill Heller
July 7th, 2009
11:04 am
How does this work? If Bibby comes back does that mean Crawford moves to SG, Johnson to SF and Williams get the 6th man?
Wabe
July 7th, 2009
11:09 am
I completely understand anybody who would be opposed to bringing back Flip because it could possibly end up playing out as a logjam for minutes.
But i completely agree with manny t. More reason to resign a guy like Flip. + You never know what could happen throughout the course of a season (injuries and what not).
Maybe slide Crawford to the 3 in a starting role or to come off the bench? I know he’s not the biggest guy, but this would enable other guys to get minutes.
I dont know, I would just hate seeing Flip go.
Stating the Obvious
July 7th, 2009
11:14 am
GeeMack,
It was the ‘04 Pistons. Dumbass.
And there have been many teams over the past two decades that have at least made the conference finals with less than the Hawks have. Besides, no one said that the Hawkswere gonna win a title – just that they were improved as much or more than Orl/Cle/Bos.
ALTAman
July 7th, 2009
11:18 am
If Flip leaves it’s just a ‘minutes’ thing, not at all reflecting on his ability. Bibby/Teague & Johnson/Crawford is a nice backcourt…it will be nice if JJ doesn’t have to play a gazillion minutes a game…he’ll be a lot fresher late in the season. Signing Zaza is huge–get that done & the rest will work itself out. Hopefully Bibby can tutor Teague well…Teague is gonna be a star one day so let’s get him time now. This team is young & has a FUTURE.
RaJaH
July 7th, 2009
11:25 am
From ESPN.com:
“David Lee is better than Jason Kidd, but you’d never know it from their contract talks this summer. Despite averaging a double-double while shooting 54.9 percent from the floor, Lee ultimately may be forced to take a qualifying offer to play for barely more than the biannual exception.”
If that’s true, could the Hawks use part of their mid-level to snatch him up.
chaz
July 7th, 2009
11:26 am
assuming we resign zaza and marvin for a combined 13-14M, how much money would we have left to sign 1) flip or 2) outside FA big or 3) david anderson? i’m assuming we’ll get them both signed and wondering what kind of player (if any) we could realistically afford after that (i.e. flip/anderson for 2-3M or a good FA big for 5-6+). thanks
We got Bibby back, now Go get ZaZa!!!!
July 7th, 2009
11:26 am
“hard to figure out” I do not understand why peopld are wanting the hawks to gut darn near the whold team and the team future with picks for Stoudemire. Has he won it all with the Suns? This guy is good but he needs to be in the right system ( which a running system) one that we could run but Mike Woodson won’t run. and he needs to have a all start passing point guard to be effected. we don’t have that either. So giving Smoove and Marvin Williams and a first round pick and other fillers for this guy would be the biggest mistake in the world. ]
This guy doesn’t even play defense. he is not what the hawks need. the hawks need a defensive seven footer. and that is something Stoudemire is not.
I would do that kind of trade for Bosh, but he can create his on shot and doesn’t need Steve Nash to be great.
reedeak
July 7th, 2009
11:27 am
I assume Marvin would be 6th man. Flip 7th…that is a pretty dangerous second team if we can get zaza signed. Marvin would prob be leading preseason 6th man of the year
Wabe
July 7th, 2009
11:29 am
Again, it may sound repetetive here,
But resigning Flip would help guys like JJ and Bibby be fresher later in the season. Essentially, if the Hawks let Flip go, the move they made for Crawford was basically an attempt to upgrade over Flip.
I wouldn’t be P!$$eD or anything if they let Flip go, because I would completely understand it’s a minutes thing, not necessarily anything against his ability.
And in no way do I wanna see Teague get jipped in regards to minutes.If resigning Flip would mean Teague would have an “Acie Law” type role here in ATL, I would disapprove. But if they could somehow make it work, it would be an U P G R A D E!
Melvin
July 7th, 2009
11:29 am
Traceman,
I like that idea of trading Mo Evans for a 2nd rounder to create cap space/roster spot for Chills. Combine Bibby and Crawford contracts and that’s what the Hawks were paying Bibby last year. Now, we could use the savings on Speedy (6 mil) contract on Chills. Re-sign ZaZa, Marvin and Solo. Add David Anderson and possibly another cheap big (Drew, Mcdyess) and let’s play some ball in the highlight factory….
Anakin Joe
July 7th, 2009
11:29 am
Bill Heller, more than likely, Crawford moves to the bench to be the upgraded version of Flip. If the Hawks begin games with Joe, Smith and Horford in the front-court, they will likely find themselves in a deep, deep hole because that tandem can’t rebound with most starting front-courts. It may work at certain points in a agiven game, but I don’t think any coach wants to start the game knowing that they can’t compete on the glass.
I was just looking at 5th guard options. Brevin Knight would be a nice add… someone who Teague can work with in practice on ball distribution and playing at different speeds.
Ry
July 7th, 2009
11:30 am
RaJah, Lee is a restricted FA. NY can match any offer, and the Hawks can’t offer enough to get him. They would have to do a sign and trade and not sure NY is interested in any trade piece the Hawks would be willing to offer.
We got Bibby back, now Go get ZaZa!!!!
July 7th, 2009
11:31 am
hard to figure out” I do not understand why people are wanting the hawks to gut darn near the whold team and the team’s future, with picks for Stoudemire. Has he won it all with the Suns? No! This guy is good, but he needs to be in the right system ( which is a running system) one that we could run, but Mike Woodson won’t run. and he needs to have an all-star passing point guard to be effected. we don’t have that either. So giving Smoove and Marvin Williams and a first round pick and other fillers for this guy would be the biggest mistake in the world. ]
This guy doesn’t even play defense. he is not what the hawks need. the hawks need a defensive seven footer. and that is something Stoudemire is not.
I would do that kind of trade for Bosh. I know Bosh is not a 7′0″ but he can create his on shot and doesn’t need Steve Nash to be great.
Sorry for the dub post.
Traceman
July 7th, 2009
11:32 am
I would like to see Teague get minutes early too but only if he is ready. He just turned 20 on June 10 and he himself said that he needed to get stronger. I say all that because if Sund finds a way to resign Flip as well as all the others, I would be happy with it.
If Chillz goes back to Greece, I can see a scenario in which Flip and Mo once again share the money that would have gone to Chillz. If Flip comes back and Teague proves ready sooner rather than later, you can always look to move Flip at a later date. With Flip’s ability to score (and sure to be reasonable contract), that shouldn’t be hard to do. I
Jay
July 7th, 2009
11:34 am
Re-signing Mike Bibby was not something I thought the Hawks could do. I’m glad I was wrong and I hope I’m wrong about Childress. Playing 30 minutes per game, Bibby, Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford will play 90 of the 96 backcourt minutes per game and Childress, Marvin Williams and Josh Smith can play 90 of the forward minutes per game without being worn down by the end of the season. That leaves 12 minutes per game–time that can easily be handled by Jeff Teague, Maurice Evans and either Solomon Jones or David Andersen, one of whom would be the 13th man on the roster.
IMO, there’s still a need for another Center, even if Pachulia is re-signed. A veteran preferably, not a star but a grinder, someone who has the maturity to handle getting 25-30 minutes in one game and a DNP the next. Sekou, is this a role Channing Frye can fill? If not, who?
Wabe
July 7th, 2009
11:34 am
To add to what I said,
in no way am i suggesting that Flip Murray should be Sund’s #1 priority.
Get Marvin and Zaza taken care of.
Find another BIG.
And then if possible, resign Flip.
chuckw/deadjournalist
July 7th, 2009
11:39 am
the down economy may turn out to be the hawks’ best friend. by locking up players at today’s market value for a significant number of years, they’ll be in a more solid budgetary position – for a longer period of time – than many other teams in the league.
to put it in perspective, steve francis made what, $22M last season. $22M for the hawks this year get them bibby ($6M), marvin ($7.5M), zaza ($5M) and probably the $2M bi annual to add a veteran big. (or if you want to look at it this way, bibby, crawford and marvin.)
think about that. two starters, your top front court player, a solid rotational big for LESS than a guy who was out of the league last year.