Super Tuesday

Sekou, any word on the terms for Bibby? I’m glad they’re bringing him back, but I hope it’s a reasonable deal. I was very happy to see that it sounds like they will avoid overpaying Marvin and Zaza.

As for Childress, I still don’t get it. Paying Bruce Bowen $4 million a year to sit on the bench is not a positive thing (Bowen used to be a fine player, but I’m not sure how he cracks the Hawks’ current rotation behind Johnson, Marvin, Crawford, and Evans). That’s exactly the kind of contract everyone else is trying to get rid of. Why should the Hawks give up something to get it — especially when for nearly the same money they could have Childress? Maybe he just won’t sign with them, but they shouldn’t take back a bad contract. If they’re going to do it they should insist on a first-round pick, though it might have to be protected somewhat. And by the way, does he really want to play in Milwaukee over Atlanta, where there is a good city and a competitive team? Come on, Chills, the fans want you back in Atlanta! If necessary they should trade Evans to make room, though I do like Evans. I’d rather have Childress than the combination of Evans and Bowen.

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Thanks for the update Sekou. I’ve been checking out your twitter page quite often looking for new updates. I’m a little disappointed about the Bibby signing; I rather have Andre Miller for two years, and then let Teague run team. I’m still a firm believer that this team needs a facilitator at the point, not another Bibby.

I think Frye and J.Jack would be nice pick ups for this young team. Hell I’d love to have Birdman on this team. I think he would fit in perfect. The Hawks would average about five blocks a game with Birdman and Smoove at the helm.

I’m starting a new job today, so I’m out like Palin.

Peace to all of the regulars!!!! (you know who you are)

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Lacsho,

Good to see you around. Good luck with the new job!

I hope we can leverage a better player for our team than Bowen.

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“The roster still needs filling out. And that might not come until much later in the summer and possibly even training camp, where a hungry free agent pickup like Mario West won roster spots in each of the past two camps”

I’m so looking forward to this senario; waiting until training camp to add a hungry player like rio. Can hardly wait.

I don’t like the idea of trading Chil for a bad contract and a very weak pick. Gotta either get a first and an expiring contributing player, a bad contract and a lottery pick, or contributing players.

Either Zaza and another big or no Zaza and two more bigs, with one at least as good as Zaza and the other better than Solo.

Zaza / Andersen would do. Get something positive for Chils. Sign Bibby, keep MW on board and we’re looking at a nice off-season.

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Thanks for the update! It is interesting reading comments of the ‘naysayers’ out there regarding the process. The Hawks have a plan and are working though it now. I hope we can come to a multi year agreement with Marvin and ZaZa does will not compromise our ability to sign JJ and Horford going forward. We have a GREAT core in place and locking them up also gives us the flexibility for future trades, if we need to tweak the roster further.

I agree with Mike, if the team is able to make a deal with Milwaukee, I’d rather it be a future 1st (it could be protected) rather than take back salary.

This may sound like a strange question but can you shed any insight regarding the Hawks thought on RandMo? Him not getting PT when Horford was out was telling in my opinion. Is he simply a practice player and/or bench fodder or does he have a shot at developing and getting PT?

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Hey Sekou,
What about Flip?
And I hate to see Chillz officially out.
I think Charlie’s contract was a bit high. Especially since ‘Sheed, Ron Ron and Trevor signed for less.
Big Tuesday indeed.

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Even if we do sign ZaZa, I’d like us to go ahead and make a swing at David Andersen. What’s the likelihood do you feel Sekou that we make a valid attempt at Andersen even if we get ZaZa?

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Hey guys check out Sekou’s new article about Bibby officially resigning with the team. I think you will be pleased at the expense of the deal.

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Sekou, Any chance the Hawks could get Ramon Sessions and Malik Allen from the Bucks for Chills, in a sign and trade?

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Bibby – 3years for 18 million. I like those numbers a lot.

Now if we can just get the inside depth squared away I would be happy with the offseason.

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I do like the way “My BOY RICK” does business. Not all this talk and rumors, just get it done.
Cuz,

The Bucks can keep Bruce Bowen. He won’t have any coat tails to ride here and officials wont look the other way as he “MUGS” defenders like they did in SA. I would much rather have Gadzuric.

No need to over pay for Flip since we have Crawford. Sign ZaZa and another Big and Call it a day.

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Sekou, SportsIllustrated.com has an article that stated a Spanish newspaper reported David Anderson will walk to join the NBA and the Hawks. Any chatter about this or is it pure speculation? Thanks

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Sekou, if you had Andersen & Pachulia on the same team, then Samuel would have to get Clyde to make him an I love Big Euros t-shirt

BWAF

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Props should go to Sund and the Hawks if the reported deal of Bibby for 3 yrs/$18 million is accurate! That is a bargain to get someone of Bibby’s caliber at that price, especially when you consider he is coming off a contract where he made $14 million/year. That also says something about Bibby, that perhaps he has a comfort level with the team that he was willing to take a ‘home town discount’ to stay. I’ll admit I was skeptical we’d be able to keep Bibby once we acquired Crawford but this will definitely help maintain continuity with the team next year! Now Sund can focus on ZaZa and Marvin. Hopefully the market has helped to determine what their offers should be.

This puts the Hawks in a GREAT position to sign JJ next year without compromising the cap. Thanks for keeping us informed along with hosting this blog, Sekou!

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Bibby sucks. Wait til a year or two from now, when he’ll take the role of Craig Claxton. Either way thats way too much money.

Big Ray, haven’t you been around long enough to know Woody ain’t gonna change his crappy coaching ways. I would rather see us running as well, but Mike Woodson could be slapped in the face with better coaching techniques, and he would still stand there with his arms folded and that same dumb look on his face!

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If all the Bucks are offer is Bruce “Over the hill” Bowen and a 2nd round pick then Sund should slap the phone down in their face. And if Sund accept that deal then I will come down to Philips and kick his you know what myself. We need to makeup with Chills and get him 82 newly press #1 uniforms and tell Mo Evans to find another number or take a hike…

Maybe we Hawks fans should start a campaign for Chills:

Bring back the Fro’ to the ATL…

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smartguy…you are now, officially, dumbguy. I call you this because you are not smart.

Glad Bibby is now back, for real this time! Also, Sund seems to be moving fast this summer. Nice to see. After all the waiting last summer on the Josh Smith contract, I figured it would be September before we knew as much as we do now.

Sekou, I am in DC today. Do you think Sund would want my help at the negotiating table?

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Sekou,

As Sund looks at all the moves being made by teams who finished the year higher in the standings, (Orlando, Boston, Clevland) than us, why do you think we aren’t pulling the trigger on some big names? Philadelphia will be better with Eddie Jordan as coach and getting Elton Brand back, Miami was young last year, will only get better and still pushed us to the limit. Sund can’t possibly look at our line up and feel we will be much better than a five or six seed in the east. I say package Josh Smith and a future first round pick, plus Solo or R. Morris for Stoudemire. With Stoudemire our first round pick would end up being in the late twenty’s a player who may or may not make it, so give it up. Why do other teams who have been to the championship within the last five years continue to make noise and moves, but we concentrate on average players?

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Hey Sekou, do you think you may be able to provide an update from today’s meetings sometime later this evening? Who knows, based on what you find out, it may warrant starting another blog. Anyhow thanks again for the insight!

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MannyT- I share your concerns about Marvin’s back, but I think we have to roll with it. I do NOT want to sign him to a QOF, we need him to at least have a long term contract, that could at least be valuable as a trade assest.

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I don’t understand why we can’t entice Childress by offering up Marvin’s starting job. A sign and trade with Marvin would yield much more and there is no drop off by allowing childress to take over the 3 spot. With Crawfords offense off the bench, we will be better off with Childress’ driving ability, hustle and ability to play off the ball. Marvin can do nothing but take wide open jump shots. Thoughts?

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I meant he has significant injuries. (sorry)

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I would like to go ahead and sign Marvin to a fair/long contract.
Although I would like someone tougher than ZaZa, I will take him now that bigs are running low.
Uggh, Childress for Bowen and a 2nd? What about Kurt Thomas or Amir Johnson instead of Bowen?
Samuel, you must be kidding about Gadzuric! He makes 14 mill over the next 2 seasons. One of the worst contracts out there.
Cleveland has interest in Childress. What about getting JJ Hickson in return? Or their late 1st round pick?
Does Portland have any interest in Childress? They can take on his salary and not give us back as much since they are under the cap. Batum? Picks? Pritchard is always looking to deal.

It seems that the Childress situation being out there til the 15th of this month is going to hold up some of our deals. I hope that does not make us miss out on some players.

What is the latest between the Atlanta Spirit and Belkin?

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We saw some guys with decent value and pedigree drop to the 2nd round a few weeks ago. While I don’t like the idea of watching a lottery pick be turned into a role player and 2nd rounder, I agree that it may be time to cut bait and move on. Bowen brings a single-minded and determined defensive intensity, something that is surely missing. He is also rumored to be a guy who “pushes the envelope” when it comes to defensive play. Maybe he could teach some of our guys how to study and harrass opposing players (I imagine Mario West would be ecstatic to learn from Bowen).

Bibby’s contract sounds right to me. Especially in light of Kidd’s 3 yr./$25M deal. Good job, Sund.

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Cutler – I think Marvin will be a stud. However, I think Chillz fit in well with Crawford running the PG. JC+JC+JJ will give us 3 effective ball handlers, and JJ+Jamal will cover up Chillz’s disabilities, and let him maximize his positive skills.

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This is to those Bibby haters…. This team CANNOT and i mean CANNOT function properly without this guy. I can’t remember what game it was i think it was the Clippers game and the Hawks got blowed out at HOME without Bibby. This guy is too comfortable with this team and for the team to continue to get better they need him. The Hawks don’t have time to experiment with Crawford and Teague at starting point right now because if they do it won’t be pleasant. Not saying they can’t get it done just saying that the team needs Bibby holding down the pg position at this point. Off the bench the guard rotation would be perfect with Crawford, Teague, and hopefully Flip can comeback. I mean the backcourt would be crowded but much much better.

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Trade Josh S. for Amare, start Marvin in his old spot, resign ZaZa to backup, move Horford to the #4 spot, shoulda kept Flip & let Bibby walk. Starters would be Amare, Horford, Marvin, Joe J. & Crawford, gotta make a move for a real #5 or theyre done

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MannyT, signing a RFA will not freeze your capspace for 10 days. That was the old CBA, the current one allows the team with the Right of First Refusal up to 7 days to match the contract.

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GeeMack, somebody should tell you that you’re an idiot.

You’re an idiot.

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I just don’t see Flip coming back with Bibby, Teague, Crawford, and Joe around…. Just don’t see it. Heck, I love Flip to death, but I don’t see him returning unless it is VERY cheap. I do like what he brings to the table but Crawford is a Flip upgrade.

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Daniel,

Doesn’t work that way with Bowen – his salary would stay on the books until next summer. You can’t get rid of players’ salaries that easily…if you could, the Knicks would have releasedCurry and Marbury long ago .

On another, Sund is officially my boy now. $6M a year for Bibby? Compare that to the Mavs’ recent re-signing of JKidd. We just got a guy 5 years younger for $7M less. At the price we’re paying Bibby, he can devolve into a Steve Kerr type and he STILL wouldn’t be overpaid, because $6M/yr is the going rate for good spot-up shooters who can’t do anything else (Kapono, Korver, etc). For a veteran starting PG, that’s just a sick bargain.

We just signed Mike Bibby for a contract that pays him less than Mike James. And Mike James is actually not overpaid for a borderline-starting PG.

Damn. NOW GO GET ZAZA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I’m glad we are basically keeping our core players together and just adding a couple of good players (D Anderson,Crawford& Teague) because 1st of all, we are keeping our chemitry together..2nd, look how far we got (2nd round) with not 1, not 2, but 3 of our **STARTING** players injured (Al, Marvin, & Joe (ankle)) Image if they all were healthy!! MIA would have been thru 2 games earlier and we probably would have won a game or 2 with the Cavs..so I’m very happy with our squad. Remember how the media talked bad about how the Hawks made no big change to their roster? Usually, I would say “Change is good”..but in the Hawks case “No change is Great!!”

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Why not try and do a sign and trade with New York for David Lee with Josh Childress? Lee is only 26, went to college in Fla., and is a true banger inside. Could you imagine a frontcourt of Horford, Smith, Lee, and Zaza?

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Nire,

Agreed. Hawks re-signed Bibby at great value and I think people are under estimating the Crawford acquisition just like they did with Flip last year.

MannyT,
I’m surprise to see you are putting Chills on the first bus out of A-town (LOL). I still think he has a role on this team if he choose to re-sign. Hawks do not have a legit backup for Marvin. Mo is too small. I like Mo as a 11 or 12th man (or a situational guy) but not in the regular rotation. Chills would provide the Hawks with alot of flexiblity as he could play the 1, 2 and 3 spots which would allow Crawford(PG/SG) and Teauge(PG) to play their natural positions. However, if trading him to the Bucks is going to bring Hawks Bowen or Thomas then I think they should pass b/c those are the two guys that the Bucks are rumored to release so I don’t see the value of trading a former lottery pick for them. When they could easily signed those guys once they are release. And why would the Hawks want Bowen when they already have Mo. Now a package that includes Amir Johnson and maybe a 1st round pick would be worth entertaining…

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3 yrs / 18 million

i like it.

nobody see’s a future for Flip with the Hawks anymore?

could someone who may know more about salary/salary implication guess-timate how much it would take to:
1) resign Flip
2) what toll would it take on our cap? would resigning him SIGNIFICANTLY hurt the Hawks chances at aquiring a mid-level BIG (Frye, Bass, Wilcox)?

At first I didn’t see both Bibby and Flip coming back, but Sund’s been cutting some good deals, and if we could get him cheap, i think it would only HELP this team.

Would rather have a guy like Flip on the bench than a Thomas Gardner.

+ we got some critical peices we’ll need to resign next season – so i’m not sure if resigning Flip would significantly impact next year’s obstacles in any way.

anybody wanna chime in?

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Great point, nire. Didn’t Matt Carroll get something around $6M/year? I know that Jason Terry is making considerably more. The Bibby contract is a great deal and magnifies the brilliance of acquiring him for chump change two seasons ago. We getting 4.5 seasons of Bibby for Shelden, AJ, Lue and Lorenzen. Amazing.

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About Teague – on draft day (before the draft) Steve Lavin was asked who the best point guard was in the draft – he answered in 5 years it will be Jeff Teague – better than Rubio, better than Flynn, etc. He said his stock dropped because of Wake’s dissapointing performance in the 2nd half of last season. I trust Lavin – I think we got a steal!

And I hate to say it, because I like Mo’, but why not trade him and keep Childress if we can’t get anything for Childress – definitely think Childress would be an upgrade over Mo’. Then sign Andersen if you can.

12 deep PG Bibby/Murray/Teague
SG Johnson/Crawford
SF Williams/Childress
PF Smith/Andersen
C Horford/Zaza/Jones or Morris
You gotta be 10 deep in this league with injuries, and it keeps everybody fresh for the playoffs.

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Nire – great post at 10:19

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Co-sign ALTAman. Teague is the reason I don’t want to keep Flip, moreso than the re-signing of Bibby. I don’t want Teague to be Boris Diaw v3.0 (v2.0 was Acie).

If we re-sign Marvin and Zaza, we have a solid 9-player rotation (Bibby, Teague, JJ, Crawford, Marvin, Mo, Josh, Al, Zaza). Add an extra frontcourt rotation player (Andersen, McDyess, Foyle, etc) and we can call it a summer. Woody will be forced to sink or swim VERY quickly with depth like that.

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How does this work? If Bibby comes back does that mean Crawford moves to SG, Johnson to SF and Williams get the 6th man?

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GeeMack,

It was the ‘04 Pistons. Dumbass.

And there have been many teams over the past two decades that have at least made the conference finals with less than the Hawks have. Besides, no one said that the Hawkswere gonna win a title – just that they were improved as much or more than Orl/Cle/Bos.

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From ESPN.com:
“David Lee is better than Jason Kidd, but you’d never know it from their contract talks this summer. Despite averaging a double-double while shooting 54.9 percent from the floor, Lee ultimately may be forced to take a qualifying offer to play for barely more than the biannual exception.”

If that’s true, could the Hawks use part of their mid-level to snatch him up.

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“hard to figure out” I do not understand why peopld are wanting the hawks to gut darn near the whold team and the team future with picks for Stoudemire. Has he won it all with the Suns? This guy is good but he needs to be in the right system ( which a running system) one that we could run but Mike Woodson won’t run. and he needs to have a all start passing point guard to be effected. we don’t have that either. So giving Smoove and Marvin Williams and a first round pick and other fillers for this guy would be the biggest mistake in the world. ]

This guy doesn’t even play defense. he is not what the hawks need. the hawks need a defensive seven footer. and that is something Stoudemire is not.

I would do that kind of trade for Bosh, but he can create his on shot and doesn’t need Steve Nash to be great.

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Again, it may sound repetetive here,

But resigning Flip would help guys like JJ and Bibby be fresher later in the season. Essentially, if the Hawks let Flip go, the move they made for Crawford was basically an attempt to upgrade over Flip.

I wouldn’t be P!$$eD or anything if they let Flip go, because I would completely understand it’s a minutes thing, not necessarily anything against his ability.

And in no way do I wanna see Teague get jipped in regards to minutes.If resigning Flip would mean Teague would have an “Acie Law” type role here in ATL, I would disapprove. But if they could somehow make it work, it would be an U P G R A D E!

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Bill Heller, more than likely, Crawford moves to the bench to be the upgraded version of Flip. If the Hawks begin games with Joe, Smith and Horford in the front-court, they will likely find themselves in a deep, deep hole because that tandem can’t rebound with most starting front-courts. It may work at certain points in a agiven game, but I don’t think any coach wants to start the game knowing that they can’t compete on the glass.

I was just looking at 5th guard options. Brevin Knight would be a nice add… someone who Teague can work with in practice on ball distribution and playing at different speeds.

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hard to figure out” I do not understand why people are wanting the hawks to gut darn near the whold team and the team’s future, with picks for Stoudemire. Has he won it all with the Suns? No! This guy is good, but he needs to be in the right system ( which is a running system) one that we could run, but Mike Woodson won’t run. and he needs to have an all-star passing point guard to be effected. we don’t have that either. So giving Smoove and Marvin Williams and a first round pick and other fillers for this guy would be the biggest mistake in the world. ]

This guy doesn’t even play defense. he is not what the hawks need. the hawks need a defensive seven footer. and that is something Stoudemire is not.

I would do that kind of trade for Bosh. I know Bosh is not a 7′0″ but he can create his on shot and doesn’t need Steve Nash to be great.

Sorry for the dub post.

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Re-signing Mike Bibby was not something I thought the Hawks could do. I’m glad I was wrong and I hope I’m wrong about Childress. Playing 30 minutes per game, Bibby, Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford will play 90 of the 96 backcourt minutes per game and Childress, Marvin Williams and Josh Smith can play 90 of the forward minutes per game without being worn down by the end of the season. That leaves 12 minutes per game–time that can easily be handled by Jeff Teague, Maurice Evans and either Solomon Jones or David Andersen, one of whom would be the 13th man on the roster.

IMO, there’s still a need for another Center, even if Pachulia is re-signed. A veteran preferably, not a star but a grinder, someone who has the maturity to handle getting 25-30 minutes in one game and a DNP the next. Sekou, is this a role Channing Frye can fill? If not, who?

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the down economy may turn out to be the hawks’ best friend. by locking up players at today’s market value for a significant number of years, they’ll be in a more solid budgetary position – for a longer period of time – than many other teams in the league.

to put it in perspective, steve francis made what, $22M last season. $22M for the hawks this year get them bibby ($6M), marvin ($7.5M), zaza ($5M) and probably the $2M bi annual to add a veteran big. (or if you want to look at it this way, bibby, crawford and marvin.)

think about that. two starters, your top front court player, a solid rotational big for LESS than a guy who was out of the league last year.

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Get David Lee! He can be had – 16 ppg – 10+ rpg – 26 years old – played at Florida – whats not to like?

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WWD???

If the Hawks bring Chills back, it would be interesting to see who
would be the the first sub off of the bench for Woody. Chills was his security blank when he was here. Crawford is a scoring machince. Both guys could be sub for the 1, 2 or 3 spots. Would he be entice to sub Crawford over Chills or vice verse….lol

What would Woody Do????????????

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Stating the Obvious

OK the 04 Pistons! You still can not name another team that got to the conference finals without a superstar player, and the Hawks don’t have not one. Joe Johnson is the 3rd option on a Championship team at best. You can call me names all you want, but you can not deny the facts. We are not better than Bos, Orl, & Clev. Those are the teams we are competing against. I am a Hawks fan to the core, but it’s disappointing when the lakers have been to the finals 6 times this decade with 4 titles and the can’t get past the 2nd round and has been in the lottery since 2000.

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Joe Johnson would be the first option on most teams. and at least the seconded option on the rest. there are only one maybe two teams where he would be the third option. Lakers is one of them and maybe Boston when everyone is healthy. JJ is an All-star and we just need one more All-star now and we could win it all..

That is one more to go with JJ not one more and trade JJ.

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If u wanna argue with me on the West teams, fine, but you cant seriously aregue on the East teams

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Just looking at Anderson’s skill set and body movement, he looks and plays just like Utah’s Mehmet Okur. Works both baselines, loves the fade away jumper from the baseline.

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Hopefully, Bibby is apart of a bigger sign + trade deal. As it stands, the Hawks franchise is treating Mike Bibby better than it treated Dominique Wilkins. If Dominique couldnt finish here, why should Bibby? Why should the fans be burdened with watching the wheels come off of Bibby? If anyone owed him a golden parachute it was Sacramento not Atlanta. Hopefully, he’ll be moved, the PGs of today are too quick for Bibby. Rondo and Paul make him look silly, now it wont just be him, its us, for resigning him.

Re-signing Marvin and Pachulia shouldve been the 1st priority. Good to hear Garrett Siler, 6′11, 300, C, Augusta St. has been invited to camp. Along with Randolph Morris, we could be developing some interesting BIGS in-house.

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terrell- you did call it. I wanted it to be an option 3rd year. Although, it is hard to argue this deal. Niremental- I thought that Bowen would be released by Milwaukee as part of the Jefferson deal, because they had to clean up their cap situation. I read about it from Hollinger when the trade went down.

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Have the Hawks signed any undrafted free agents on to their summer league team? I don’t see why they wouldn’t look at Alade Aminu from Georgia Tech. He’s a hometown guy and a class act in the community. Plus he’s 6′11″ and athletic. He’s at least as good as Randolph Morris.

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Niremetal…

Glad to see you give Sund some platitudes on the Bibby deal on the $6M aspect… Now with the $4M below what most speculated that Bibby (now shown to be some wrong thinking) would demand, where can we go with that Cap wise in the ZaZa and possible Marvin resignings bring included in the Math?

To another poster…
It’s not an “inside joke.” It is just bad joke!!! Do you hang out with Mitt Romney chanting “Who let the dogs out?” Gee willickers!!!

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Stating the Obvious

East
‘92 Cavs (Mark Price 4 time all star, Brad 5x all-star)
‘97 Heat ( 7x all-star, Tim H. 5x all star,
‘99 Knicks (A. Houston, Spreewell 4x all star, and Pat Ewing 11x all star)
‘00 Knicks
‘01 Bucks (Big Dog Ray Allen and Sam I am)
‘02 Celtics (PP & Toine)
‘04 Pacers (Reggi Miller & JO)
Every Pistons team from ‘03 to ‘08

West
‘99 Blazers
‘00 Blazers
‘03 Mavs
‘04 Wolves

Listen the names I put up is up for debate, but their numbers are similar to JJ. Dude I am not cracking on JJ. I am just saying we brought this guy here to help bring this franchise to a place where it can compete for a champioship JJ is in the last year of a 5 year deal and we still have not got a complementary player to go with him. If we were to play top 3 teams in the east in a 7 game series being the basketball purest you are! You would not confident we could take the series. As a Hawks fan I want to at least feel like we have a chance in the playoffs against the elite teams. Agree of disagree.

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OH YEAH I ALMOST FORGOT I DONT HAVE TO CHANGE MY SCREEN NAME HERE NOW. YAHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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For the Love of God People, Josh Childress is not coming back!!!! He feels he was better than Marvin when he was here and Woody would not give him the playing time that he earned, he does not want to be here!!!!!Let it Go!!!! He must be traded for a BIG that is serviceable, I do not agree with the Bibby signing because he can not guard anyone, but oh well, we do have a deeper backcourt now, I would have preferred Amare Studamire instead of Crawford, If you take Crawfords money and speedy’s sign flip back and make do at the point with flip and Teague…… i like that scenario better, of course this means my favorite player is traded (J-Smoove) but hey what do I know, of course in this scenario Eric Maynor would fit better also, now can we get Za Za and David Anderson signed????

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I was a fan of Jack and Sessions, but I am pleased with the 3 year $18 mil deal. Good job Sund and Bibby. (I also wanted the 3rd year to be a team option, but at that salary, he can always be traded).

It is imperative that the Hawks sign ZaZa. And then we must use (some or all of) the MLE to sign another big. That would be a very deep team.

PG – Bibby/Crawford/Teague
SG – JJ/Crawford
SF – Marvin/Mo Evans
PF – JSmoove/FA Big
C – Horford/ZaZa

And Woody/JJ would have no more excuses about wanting veterans in here.

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I think alot of people are underestimating Flips contributions to this team last year…. If at all possible we need to resign the guy. Last year he made 1.5 mill im sure he would take 2.5. Think about it Gardner and R Morris together made more than Flip- The guy was responsible for atleast 10 wins last year -jus sayn

If we have to waive these guys so that Flip is still here lets do it -He’s our Vinnie Johnson off the bench Microwave baby…

Props to Slick Rick for making his mark before The Midddle of August-
Bruce Bowen is 38 yo no way we do that deal. S&T for Elson -he’s an okay big with size and athleticism and i think he makes right aroud 4 a year. Then we could let Solo or morris seek other employment.

I want Sund to contact Wilcox -He would be nice in our ratation of bigs-ZAZA,DA,Horford,Smoove,Wilcox and maybe Siler

The Solo R Mo experiment should stop….. Morris is garbage and Solo is 25 and has yet to get better…We need players if we plan to challenge the big boi’z next year.

Biiby’s deal is exactly what he should have gotten-

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if we resign marvin for 7-8M and zaza for 5-6M, roughly how much would we be able to spend on additional players, be it a FA big and/or flip and/or d anderson? thanks

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i’m trying to figure out why so many want the hawks to resign zsa zsa. he can’t rebound unless the ball comes directly to him. defensively, he’s invisible. sure he got in garnett face but garnett and others dominates him on the court.even if we have trade for a odom, marion or someone who can defend against the howards,shaqs and garnetts that what we should do also get marvin and childress signed and everything else is complete.iwould rather have ben wallace before i would zsa zsa

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thank you Wabe, at least someone agreed with me. If we did get Amare, he would have been useless for our team cause he keep getting injured alot and we don’t need that.

I would rather have either Carlos Boozer over Amare.

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*ding* (to cdog)

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IMUS and others still calling for Flip, are you looking for Joe to play SF (and be dominated in that spot) or do you think that Teague was a wasted pick? I’m just trying to figure out why you think we could go from having a 3-guard rotation last year to a 5-guard rotation this year? Flip’s role belongs to Crawford. Hopefully, we’re done with our backcourt (other than grabbing a Brevin Knight/Kevin Ollie/Royal Ivey type 5th guard to sit on the bench).

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Hahahahahaha:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4310653

a source close to Bibby told ESPN The Magazine’s Ric Bucher that the 11-year veteran has not yet agreed to a deal

ESPN is hilarious. Seriously. They report deals that are made up out of thin air and then display skepticism for well-sourced deals that are all but done.

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bibby is signed sealed and delivered. now we need to take the big step and sign a quality center(not zsa zsa) and marvin and childress.

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Ok, with the Bibby news I go from nonplussed to slightly hopeful about what the Hawks can accomplish this Summer. Now we’re moving from Fantasy Basketball Land back to reality.

The retention of Bibby is a signal that Sund…and ASG, has decided that the team as presently constructed, has not reached a plateau. I think almost all of us can live with the contract even though there are some that remain Bibby-deniers. The most important “stat” concerning Bibby is the team’s record before and after his arrival. Everything else is secondary at best.

With Sund in a pursuit posture concerning Marvin and ZaZa, I think we have a clear signal that ASG remains committed to the core financially despite rumors to the contrary. As has often been stated, retaining Marvin and ZaZa does nothing more than keep the Hawks competitive for a playoff spot.

I don’t think we can expect a sizeable amount of organic growth. There will be some, but I don’t I think we aren’t going to get much more than what we’ve seen from the young players.They are what they are, and very close to being all they can be.

This means that Sund…and ASG, will have to address the team’s weaknesses from outside the organization. And with the much chronicled cap restraints, it remains unclear how the Hawks add an effective big body or two. The Hawks should not count on Childress opting out of his current contract. He seems to remain spiteful towards the organization (rightly or wrongly, but spiteful just the same) and this little tease could be nothing more than a ploy to stick it to the Hawks again.

I find it hard to believe that he all of a sudden want to play for the Bucks. The Bucks! Of all teams, that is the one his agent visits first? That is very strange to me. I could understand the Lakers, or one of the other multiple teams supposedly interested in him last season. But the Bucks?

I hope I’m wrong. I pray that I am wrong. But I smell a possible set up here, another chance to stick it to the Hawks. He dangles the possibility of a return, the Hawks proceed in good faith to pursue the best way to accommodate him and improve the team, and at the very last moment he decides he wants to play in the NBA again this season. This would leave the Hawks one less avenue to improve the team externally and put them at a disadvantage.

Hope I’m wrong about Childress.

Go Hawks!!

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Once Portland heard of the reasonable price for Bibby they called and said we can do better than that.

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I can just hear Clyde now…

“Who cares if we got Bibby for a good price? It doesn’t matter. Unless Sund trades Randolph Morris for Dwight Howard, he’s a miserable failure as a GM.

ROLL TIDE!”

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You know, my friends,………the Atlanta Hawks have come a long, long way………. Just think about this: 3 years ago we were a laughing stock…were getting ripped by the media for getting so-called hosed in the Phoenix deal…in J.J. we only had one legitimate scorer, etc.. etc….

Then, just a year and a half ago when the Hawks made the deal for Bibby…we still were very much on the outside looking in. And I must confess I was worried that Bibby would be totally bummed to be coming to Atlanta….let alone would I have ever dreamed that Bibby would actually want to stay in Atlanta after his contract expired (just as I never dreamed the Hawks could actually take Boston to 7 games in a thrilling series). And yet…today Bibby signs a very fair deal to stay.

Times have changed, my friends! The Hawks are now arguably one of the top ten teams in the NBA, and players want to play here! H’bout Marvin Williams’ dad yesterday saying that his son wants to stay in Atlanta and sign long-term. H’bout ZaZa saying repeatedly after the Cavs’ series that his heart is in Atlanta and he wants to stay. For all this, after years of futility and frustration, we have an exciting team we can all be proud of!

Mitch (MA)

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I’m gonna give Rick Sund a vote of confidence for making sure the Hawks have a PG to run the offense next season, as opposed to the three SG rotation that would’ve destroyed the Hawks chances of being a playoff team next season. AND, he did it for the amount of money that everyone thought Bibby was worth.

Kudos Sund-Aye!

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Bibby and Jamal Crawford ain’t gonna help us when Shaq and Dwight Howard come to town.

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Stevie did his thing. Great send-off for MJ.

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Sekou, any comments on Ric Bucher’s comments on ESPN.com (that Bibby hasn’t agreed to anything)? I hope this isn’t another Griffey/Furcal type situation.

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Anakin,

Come on dude. What does that even mean, “will Crawford be 4 times the player as Flip?” He brings more to the table than Flip did, that’s for sure. But there’s no way to measure whether someone is “x times the player” as someone else simply by looking at their salaries. This isn’t baseball. Basketball is a real team sport, and the value of parts can’t be measured apart from the whole. You can only measure a player’s value in the context of how he benefits the team. And I think the Hawks are a better team with Crawford than with Flip. Asking how many times more is a nonsensical question.

Even if that question did make sense, you’re forgetting that Flip is not the only player whose salary was cut. Do I think that I would rather have Jamal Crawford than a combination of Flip, Speedy, and Acie? Why yes, I would.

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I guess everyone is not impress by the Hawks re-siging Bibby.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Mike-Bibby-stays-in-Atlanta;_ylt=AsBSogprdHL8NZm4tiY46OC8vLYF?urn=nba,175109

So let me get this straight. Hawks are stupid/lazy/leaderless for re-signing a guy to a modest salary that lead them to two straight playoffs appearences after missing the playoffs for the 1ast decade. And The Kings were genius for signing this guy to a MAX contract when he never made an All-Star game. I think this is Hawks Hating at its best. Well maybe not as bad as ESPN reporting then denying the Bibby signing….

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i’ll probably be the last post on this page as well …

the minutes just aren’t there for flip and i’ll be damn sad to see him go. he had a confidence about him that he brought just about every night he was on the court.

i remember the opener against orlando last year – i recall being so excited i posted something about how the hawks would hit 47 if he could play like that for 60 games. he didn’t disappoint.

i come’n – who didn’t love to see big country interview him after a game?

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Melvin,

Kelly Dwyer has always hated Bibby, the Hawks, and every player over the age of 30 not named Kobe. He provides some decent analyses of games, but he is one of those people who clearly makes up his mind about players and teams and then views everything through that lens. He doesn’t like Bibby, therefore any team that re-signs him is stupid. Kinda like with Woody and Acie. Or RodSamRod with Marvin. Or Clyde with Horford.

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i need an copy editor.

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ugh! see!

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The resigning of Bibby, which I did not think that the Hawks could get done for a reasonable price, whatever that means, provides this team something that others in the East, particularly Orlando, the Bulls, Detroit, and maybe even the Celtics don’t have–a history of cohessive play to build upon.

The Celtics think that they helped themselves by adding Sheed and maybe they have, but I have my doubts. Sheed, I believe, is a basketball genuis of sorts and a perfectionistic perfectionist. His best days were when Larry Brown, who out perfectionisted even Sheed, somehow soothed the guy’s soul, allowed him to play without so much judgment.

Now, the Celtics might think that they have enshrowded Sheed with the kind of great and talented players who will have a similarly soothing effect on Sheed, but I think that it is an even bet that inside where it really counts being around these guys will only inflame the perfectionist in him. If so, whether he acts out or not, he will only get in people’s way, not help them. Oh, he might have a great game now and then but he will detract from the ethos that lead the Celtics to a championship.

This experiment by the Celtics is like the Dog Whisperer. Put the confused one into the pack and they will help him make his head right. Maybe, but I think not.

This club here has an opportunity to continue to build on the ethos that has allowed them to get better and more potent in each of the last two seasons. The keys might be Bibby, JJ, and Crawford, and of course Woody. If Bibby and JJ find a way to allow Crawford to be Crawford when he is on the floor, and to be okay about not starting and perhaps also not finishing, that would be quite an accomplishment. The success of this team depends on it.

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I used to lament Zaza, but he has become the heart of the playoff Hawks. He pissed off the Celtics off 2 years ago. He should be a Hawk for life.

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I like David Anderson, but don’t get carried away people…

When we won the #3 pick in May 2007, I immediately started watching Yi Jianlian clips for hours and hours. I thought the guy was the next Dirk Nowitzki (my boy), but he is trash right now. Don’t let these clips blow you away. Half the players these international guys play against are trash

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starters bibby 6M + jj 15M + marvin 7M + js 11M + al 4M = 43M
bench teague 1.5M + crawford 9M + mo 2.5M + zaza 5M + rmorris 1M + west 1M = 20M

assuming marvin and zaza resign for combined 12M, we’ll have 11 players and 63M under contract.

assuming no deal with childress, how much (if any) more will we be able to spend on a FA big, flip, solo, and/or d anderson? any ideas as to how much management is willing/able to spend on this team?

thanks

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The Bibby signing is a good one. I love watching him make 3s and throw alleyoops to Josh Smith, but some of his weaknesses piss me off (you can say this about anyone).

We must find veteran bigs to round out this roster. Sign Marvin for a reasonable price, but we need more Chris Wilcox’s on this roster. Wilcox was a borderline all-star 2 years ago (I think).

No more Solomon Jones’. I want more Wilcox’s (no homo)

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The Truth,

Jamal Crawford does everything Flip does. Flip is a serious ballhog, and I mean serious. Kobe and Iverson in their heyday cannot compete with Flip’s lack of a desire to pass. The guy never passes at the end of quarters and always takes awful shots.

Anyway, with my boy Craw in town, we don’t need Flip. We all love the Philly baller, but unless we get him for very cheap or something happens to one of our guards, he’s probably gone

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Here’s another thought or two on why retaining Flip would be wise – assuming he’d sign a deal around 2/$5M or 2/$6M:

Injuries – Let us not forget that Bibby and Marvin missed significant time with injuries in the last few years. With Flip and Jamal the Hawks could better withstand injuries at the 1, 2 or 3. All it takes is one bad fall or rolled ankle to play havoc on a team’s depth.

2010 – No one is speaking on the retention of JJ next year. Why if he does bolt the team for greener hardwood? Flip with Jamal would compensate for his loss – with or without a replacement.

4th Quarters – Flip can get hot and bring a team back from 15 with 15 to go as well as any bench player in the league not named Ben Gordon.

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Flash, I don’t follow the Celtics very closely, but what if KG isn’t showing signs of recuperating? The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if Rasheed chose Boston over the Spurs because KG may be relegated to a “Bill Walton as a Celtic” bench role next season. Not only would he seemingly be a starter in San Antonio, but he wouldn’t have to face more physically talented big men. He traded banging against Bynum and Nene 4-5 times for banging against Dwight & Shaq 4-5 times. Strange decision.

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KevinA we get it man. Everyday you try to find some way to trade Crawford or bash the guy. He is now a member of the Hawks so get used to it…..People I like Flip but we don’t need him. I would actually like to see Teague get some minutes and having Flip will only give Woodson more reason not to play the kid….And stop with the Amare talk. He is not a center, does not want to play center, does not play defense, is always hurt, and would have been a one year rental….If all the Bucks are offering is Bowen and a second rounder then Sund should laugh in their face and hang up the phone then call back and laugh some more. If we cant get Amir Johnson or a first rounder from them for Chills then tell Josh he is coming back to the A or have a nice trip back over seas….

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CP,

I agree with a lot of that.

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Astro Joe,

Flip got $1.5M last year and gave us 12.2 pts./gm.

JJ got $14.25M and gave us 21.4.

Was JJ 9 times better than Flip?

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Anakin Joe,

Are you saying that the Hawks should have kept Speedy/Acie along with re-signing Bibby and Flip and drafting Teague instead of acquring Crawford?

I know, that was a heck of a run-on sentence but you understand what I’m asking….

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Dukester,

Funny. I seem to remember us making the 4 seed with the squad we have, and that was before we got Crawford. Guess I must have dreamt that.

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CP,

Co-sign your 4:01 post…

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NIRE’, MANNYT, BIG RAY,

With the Bibby signing, how much money is left for the Hawks to sign Marvin, ZaZa, and another F/A big? This will determine who we get.

“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends!”

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I was just thinking: Bibby (14 ppg), Johnson(22 ppg), and Crawford (20 ppg)is very nice backcourt. If Teague adds a little spark could help but Flip’s spark would make it awesome backcourt.

Add J. Smith, Hortford (if PF) and that 2 more nice players
role players Zaza, Marvin W are fine.

Key is coaching, and one more big (Anderson??) – coaching very weak. It’s time for new coach. Bring in Avery Johnson and this team could win 50.

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Dos Hawquis,

Think about it this way: Bibby just got a $9.5M paycut. That means we can give Zaza a $2M raise, Marvin a $2-3M raise, and still have ~$5M left to sign a big man, all without increasing our payroll.

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The heck with Chills, if he doesn’t want to be with us…then trade him. If he was wise he’ll stay with the Hawks. Just imagine our starting 3 and back-ups: Bibby-Joe-Marvin/Teague-Crawford-Chills thats a mean 6man rotation not to mention the front court

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Melvin, without understanding all of the rules around when trades need to take place for cap issues, dumping Speedy and Acie before free agency started felt too fast to me. Why not see if another trade for a needed asset could be acquired after the draft and first round of free agency cleared? Again, maybe it had something to do with those funding buckets.

Sautee, me thinks that looking solely at Joe’s scoring average as the measure of his value is inaccurate. I think it is fair to put Flip and Crawford in the “Andrew Toney Memorial” category but I don’t think Joe belongs there. Maybe you disagree. Big men make more money, right? So Dalembert and Chandler’s salaries probably shouldn’t be compared to that of someone like Josh Howard. I think they all make roughly the same and so it would be easy to say that Howard is head and shoulders more valuable than the other two, except that they are in different categories. Comparing Chandler, Dalembert and Nene is a fair comparison (IMO). Comparing Crawford, Flip, Mike James and Larry Hughes is a fair comparison (IMO). Comparing Joe to Flip is kind of silly, again, IMO. Comparing Joe to Erik Dampier makes no sense. But Flip and Crawford, why not?

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IF YOU HATE THE BIBBY DEAL, PLEASE ACKNOWLEDGE YOURSELVES!! I AM MAKING A LIST, SO THAT I CAN REMIND YOU IN APRIL, HOW IMPORTANT THIS BIBBY DEAL IS TO THE HAWKS.

“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends!”

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BIGTIMETECHFAN,

I don’t know if you noticed, but the Hawks won 47 games last year. To bring in Avery Johnson, a new philosophy, new chemistry, etc., buy out the rest of Woodson’s contract and to pay AJ the 6mil he wants to win
50 games would not make much since.

NIRE’,
Would you use the 5mil left over to bring back Flip or are the Hawks done with Flip?

“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends!”

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Anakin, perhaps I’m wrong, but I thought last offseason Manny T or someone, looked at the rules concerning Josh’s situation and came to a different conclusion.

It was my impression that the Hawks could only hold on to his rights for two years? After two years his status would change to unrestricted. If that is true, then they either get something for him now or never.

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Kirk, I recall the debate and thought that there was no expiration on our “rights ownership” as long as we made a QO by the deadline. But hey, I am growing old in dog years these days, so maybe my memory is failing me. I’m sure nire or Manny or someone else will quickly chime in with Larry Coon’s expert counsel.

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kwooden1
Good point about the dollars involving Flip. I’m just guessing, but since Flip previous salary was so low compared to his contribution, it seem like it wouldn’t take much to satisfy especially in this economy. Flip must know that in order to get paid well, he must stay put and earn “Bird Rights” which is 3-years.

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Crawford is the only player on the Hawks that is overpaid. The trade by Sund was great by getting rid of Speedy’s contract and a player that Woody wasen’t going to play anyway. Crawford is a much better trade option for a player that fits our needs. We have plenty of guards wo will jack up jumpers at a low shooting percentage. Flip will do it for much less money and a better FG%. Prob. better defense.
Having said that we now have 6.5 million to fill in other needs. We could prob. get Gooden for less than 3 million. Maybe Chills for 6. If not that – go for a big.

If only Crawford played good defense and shot better. JJ is in contract year, hard to see Crawford getting the ball much anyway. If Bibby gets his minutes cut much and if Crawford has trouble getting the ball to Josh and Al – we may see some discontent. Not to mention Marvin will be wanting to asssert mimself as well.
9 mil is a lot to ride the to bk up the star JJ. If someone gets hurt, I’d rather have Chills.

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At 1 point, people were saying Dumars was the best GM in the league. Not! How many coaches have the Pistons had since Larry Brown left? Rick Carlisle, Flip Saunders, Michael Curry, etc… What about the Darko debacle, or the AI experience? Hell, BK mighta been better. Seriously.

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KevinA,

Crawford hasn’t even played his 1st game in a Hawks uniform yet. Whats up with all those Crawford assumptions? Fact is, you don’t know whether acquiring Crawford will/will not work at this point.

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SEKOU IS LIKE RICK SUND…

May not be as FAST as you want, but when he does show up, he has good news!! Good job SEKOU and RICK SUND!!

“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends!”

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fudd21 thanks for the reply. if we resign both marvin and zaza and have 11 players under contract, we would still have the ability to improve the roster by adding a player or two. at that point our options would include:

1) sign flip, d anderson, or solo for cheap
2) use the MLE to get a decent FA big
3) somehow trade childress for a player and/or picks
4) make no more moves

i expect that we will resign both marvin and zaza, maybe try to resign flip and/or solo for cheap, and that would be it. does anyone here believe that management will be willing/able to use the MLE and/or childress to bring in the shot-blocking C or PF we really need?

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Dos Hawkquis,

IF Chills didn’t have any intentions to re-sign with the Hawks last year, then why was he quoted saying he wanted to get his deal done early in the Free Agency period last summer. That statement doesn’t seem like a guy who didn’t want to re-sign to me. As for this summer, all I can do is take Sekou at his word that the guy wants to play elsewhere.

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With all this chatter about the Hawks budget, if we really need some relief, I say Mo Evans should be expendable via a trade. I’m not sure where Mo Evans fits in because he’s too short to guard big Sf like Hedo or Charlie V and we already have Crawford backing-up JJ at SG. Right now, our real weakness is at the backup SF and backup PF positions. We could package Mo with something else (chill S-T, or future 2nd round, etc) for a serviceable upgrade.

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do you think that the Hawks could land Samual Dalembert from the 76ers?

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Blogotomy,

LMFAO!

Nailed it there, buddy! Got all of us.

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How is 48-50 games NOT closer to the big three than 47? Somebody’s math skills are seriously lacking.

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Melvin, you may be right, Crawford may be fine. Who knows. I did watch Chills from day one on this team. I think the kid has better skills and is a smarter player.

Dos Hawkquis , Chills is from Stanford and seems to be level headed. If Woody offered the unclenched fist and gave him starter minutes, Chills would reevaluate. Obama today got Russia to agree to disarm 30% of nuclear stockpiles. Never say never.

Sautee, I can see your reasoning except we can do better than Crawford for 9 mil. With or without JJ.

Is Crawford just a young version of Big Dog? Smooth stroke with no defense. Jason Terry, smooth stroke, no defense. Antwan Walker, D? These guys are a dime a dozen.

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Ric Bucher just said on ESPN that McDyess is deciding b/w Detroit and San Antonio. I read this morning like most of you that Channing Frye was looking hard at Phoenix. If true, we better shift our focus to Wilcox or Gooden.

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“Sautee, I can see your reasoning except we can do better than Crawford for 9 mil. With or without JJ.”

But Kevin, we got insurance without giving up usable parts. And who else could we have gotten for Acie and Speedy that would have given us that PLAN B?

I’m NOT saying Crawford is the long term solution if JJ leaves, but it sure makes me feel better that me have SOMEONE on the roster capable of filling in if that becomes necessary. And it ALSO gave us leverage in the Bibby negotiations.

If Bibby’s agent thought that Bibby was our only option…… Well let’s just say we might not be as happy about the figures.

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Sautee, the trade was awesome no matter what happens. If by chance JJ goes I would assume that Crawford would go to, freeing up 24 million for a FA. And who knows, Chills may be an option next year also. Did you see the video of the gym that Chills was playing in? Looked like grade school sized. And then there was the fires lol. That is why is he looking around.

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I have a feeling teague is gonna out perform bibby this year.

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AJ,

Here’s what I was arguing about: “Comparing Joe to Flip is kind of silly, again, IMO. Comparing Joe to Erik Dampier makes no sense. But Flip and Crawford, why not?”

Most of Flip’s minutes were at the 2, though he DID play considerable minutes at the 1.

Most of JJ minutes were ALSO at the the 2.

Crawford, too, played most of his minutes at the 2.

So if you can compare Crawford and Flip (both playing mostly 2), why not compare Flip and JJ (both playing mostly at the 2) what’s silly about the comparison? Other than the fact that it weakens your argument?

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Melvin–If you go back in the history banks, I am a Chills fan. However, I am willing to let him go if we can get better. In the time that he has been gone almost all of our acquisitions have been guys that chip away at his minutes. (It would be nice if we could collect a big man upgrade in there instead of all perimeter all the time.)

I don’t know how much Chills wants to return to the NBA, but it is easy to imagine that he does not want to come back here to a smaller role, lower pay, and a perceived lack of respect/appreciation. Can he force Sund to move him, no. Can he delay the situation if he doesn’t get an agreement that he likes–easily for the next 2 years.

Ariose–don’t push for Flip too hard yet. Did you ever back into Woody’s car or cut in front of him in line? When you start backing a guy hard, he becomes the poster child for Woody’s dog house

Dos Hawquis (aka TMIHFITW) Bibby’s deal has no impact on other free agents. The only fiscal impact of reupping anyone except Flip is how much closer it pushes you to the luxury tax. The exceptions Biannual & Mid level are available without regard for how much you pay your Bird rights guys.

kirknga–we worked through that Chills thing in more detail this offseason. He is locked into the Hawks as a RFA as long as they make the qualifying offer.Sucks for him, but protects the league. His only chance for a loophole is the next collective bargaining deal. An unlikely option as it would help a bunch of Euroleagers and we know Samuel, er, Stern has little reason to help the Euros.

doc–in the land of ALTA, how can you take pokes at tennis? Now that there is Universal Sports on TV, I can get my fix of real Olympic sports in non Olympic years. I’ll send them a note that you want them to start a blog and link it to the AJC Will we get your take on Tyson Gay’s ability to come back from the injury last season and challenge Usain Bolt…or would you prefer the impact of motherhood on Kerri Walsh. Will she reunite with Misty May Treanor before the next Olympics or are they done because Misty will lose anoher year if she follows Kerri to motherhood?

http://www.universalsports.com
That’s 11-3 for those that went the DTV route!

Yes, I am a MOMS boy…i.e. Man Of Man(n)y Sports

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HERE’S THE QUESTION:

If the Hawks extend Marvin Williams, would that mean they don’t have enough money to resign Joe Johnson next summer? Is that, really, why Sund acquired Jamal Crawford?

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Sautee, that’s certainly one way to view it. But I personally wouldn’t compare Szerbiak to Vince Carter… they have different roles for their respective teams. I don’t think a fair comparison stops at the 5 basic positions. Comparing Chris Anderson as the energetic defender to Varejao makes far more sense to me than comparing him to Bynum. That’s why I tend to compare Crawford’s role as 6th man scorer to Flip and choose not to put Joe in that category.

If Sund is paying Crawford to replicate Joe, then this is as bad a move as when he paid Earl Watson a comparable salary to mimic what Ridnour was paid to provide to the Sonics. I guess we’ll find out if stacking up makes a better team than filling gaps across.

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Thanks to Bibby to signing a very reasonable contract!

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MannyT, LOl I wasn’t even backing Acie all that much. That way Ray lol. I think Woodson was just biased against lefthanded ballplayers. I’m rooting for Flip, but As soon as he’s signed i’m joing the Jeff Teauge Bandwagon in full force

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From My Twitter Feed:

“@zaza27 Hey when you get those two pairs of shoes form @niremetal i’ll shine them for the whole year if you come back to tha ATL!!!”

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we need to keep the team together they have learn to fight better together each year

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From Sekou’s Twitter Feed”

“On my way to Adamsville Rec for Pro Am game. Who needs summer league when you can go to Adamsville, Shawty?”

“Green Team is stacked. J. Smith, V. Wafer, M. West, Donta Smith, Devendorf, and more. This ought to be somebody’s summer league team.”

Nire, I agree, Filp is certainly expendable. I just wuld much rather have too much talent on a roster, rather than having too little. It backfired on NYC a couple of years back but other than Crawford, most of those gys were just there for the check. Besides, we have chemistry on theis roster, and flip fit right into the mix.

I would hope, that if flip came back, that teauge would absorb most of his minutes(at least until the playoffs) until Filp is really neede(injuries). But le’t point the finger where it really should be pointed. Woodson has to do a better job of time management.

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Could the Hawks sign Anderson Varejo (sp?) for the full mid-level? He provides good defense and rebounding as our backup PF…

Sekou,

Do you know if the Hawks have any intentions of signing another PG? (They can use their bi-annual exception to sign another PG, in case Bibby/Teague gets injured).

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O’Brien, Flip maybe???

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It appears we have Bibby back on board. However, I just can’t see us improving with him starting and averaging 34.7mins and taking 1005 shots(2nd most on the team)like he did last yr. We need our starting PG to be more than a 3pt shooter and DEF liability. Bibby’s skills, at this stage in his career, would be more useful coming off the bench. Also, with Teague(6′2″) and JCrawford’s(6′4″)size and PG skills, Bibby could be used very effectively at SG, much like the combination of ESnow and AIverson were used in Philly.

SEKOU-what have you heard concerning the Hawks intention concerning RFA Solomon Jones?

For those advocating we resign Zaza, Anderson and another Big, consider this. We all know Woodson has refused to consistently use more than one Big off our bench(Zaza). I don’t see him changing his act, expecially in a contract yr with his job on the line.

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Sautee, Szerbiak to Vince is no more extreme than Joe to Flip (if you use your salary metric as a measure). But I digress.

Like I said a few days ago, I’m willing to consider a perspective that giving a defensive-minded coach a collection of scorers may provide a balanced approach. It tends to work in the NFL. SVG is more defensive oriented but he took guys like Rashard, Hedo and Jameer and turned them into an impressive defensive team anchored by Howard (and aided by Pietrus). Assuming Marvin and Mo return, with the addition of a legit low-post defender, maybe we have enough pieces to establish a strong defensive unit, anchored by Smith/Horford. If this is his approach, then go all out and bring on Andersen as a pick and roll expert. Add 2 ultra-cheap bigs like Theo/Foyle/Jason Collins and Stromile/Ruffin and let’s get the season started.

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Ken,

I never thought I’d say these next four words but…in fairness to Woodson, he never had much to work with in terms of big men off the bench. I know there were some people who thought Solo could be something. Heck, I was one of those people. But something tells me that Solo is not going to catch on as a rotation player anywhere else. Other than that, who’ve we had? RandMo (who never got minutes in the godawful Knicks rotation)? Shelden (who got traded and cut this year)? Lorenzen (who actually DID get a decent number of minutes before we traded him)?

My guess is that if we re-sign Zaza and bring in a McDyess or anyone with the last name Andersen, Woody will use at least a 4-man frontcourt rotation. I can’t say I’m sure (this is Woody, after all), but that’s my guess.

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If woody wants to be a defensive mind coach it would have made better sense to starte jamal at point and bring in teague behind him.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!

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How can we not even consider bringing back flip when he was your most important piece on the team.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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one name i haven’t heard mention as a possible big man. what about jermaine o’neal. he would be a force to deal with than pachulia. let pachulia go.he’s a loser. how many offensive rebounds does he give up simply by standing around, slow footed and fails box out? o’neal would be a fit way better than za za(zsa zsa). we should be trying bring in talents to win championships like the celtics, cavs, and majic are doing instead of worrying about money like atlanta always do.if rick sund sits around taking a whole week and a half to sign our own free agents one at a time,the quality ones will be gone but i quess thats what sund wants. the ole atlantaism way, refusing to spend money on winning players

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And anyone else here want to pay $23M for Jermaine O’Neal this season?

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Hell no .. he is still weak sauce… who would pay that for a old weak power forword………

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niremetal with the players we have he would fit in and perform better with the hawks than the heat.i don’t recall za za dominating anyone in the heat playoffs. he might have had an average in the fifth game

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6TH SEED at best this year woody gone here come avery to turn this 80rank franchise around in to a winner.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!

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nire the only decent minutes lorens got was at the popcorn machine. it was the only thing he grabbed in the realm of hawks those two years. i wonder what his max was on rebounds in a game. 6 mil wasted over two years. just glad he didnt get a ring to show for his time with cleveland.

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Ariose,

The problem with Flip is he needs consistent minutes. The Hawks have 96 minutes to spread in the backcourt. How would that play out? I would say JJ gets 34 mins, Bibby gets 30 minutes, Crawford gets 20 mins, which would leave 6 minutes for Teague.

Ken,

One of my problems with Woody is that he played Bibby 35 minutes every game, regardless of the matchup and how he was playing. I agree with you. There is no way Bibby should average that many minutes. I would say give Bibby 26-30 minutes (unless he is on fire).

I also blame Woody for not running some plays through the front court. Bibby and JJ took too many shots (compared to the front court). How many coaches play outside in (except Woody)? We need to play inside out, and give Al and Josh more shots.

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Doc, LOL. You KNOW i’m just biding my time until Salim gives me a reason to act out and drag Woodsons name through the mud

O’Brien, I would do it Coach K/Team USA style. The backcourt get’s rotated in and out in five minute spurts. Extreme intense defense/offense for five minutes and then you don’t see the court for the next five to ten minutes. Hubie Brown coached that way, and I would too. Keeps everybody fresh, alert, and playing with maximum intensity for the whole game. Every body contributes, and everybody is happy.

Of course certain circumstances(Close games in the 4th qtr or Matchups) will play a part in the rotations as well, but for the most part, Guys like Phil Jackson(aside from Kobe of course), Stan Van Gundy, and Hubie Brown are able to utilize most of their benches with success. I don’t see why Woodson cannot, and I don’t see Flip having a problem with that philosophy.

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Woodson will play the hell outta JJ and Bibby this year. These are the only 2 guys that he TRUSTS. This is a contract year for Woody and he knows that anything short of a 50 win season and a 2nd rd playoff appearance might mean he won’t be able to provide for his family after this year.

Teague won’t get any minutes this year. SORRY!! Woodson will run his 7man rotation full throttle thru the All-Star break. I hope that JJ gets alot of rest this summer.

“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends!”

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THANKS SEKOU!!!

I know you don’t get it enough, but you keep us on top of things even when we’re over anxious. After the signings begin tomorrow i’m sure there will be many new story lines.

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AAAAH

Frm Sekou:

“New salary cap numbers (per NBA). New cap is $57.7 million. Luxury tax is $69.92 million. 2008-09 numbers were $58.68 and $71.15.”

“That dunk Josh missed against Miami in the playoffs last year that got him in all that nonsense … he nailed it. Green team won big.”

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Outside of the RMo for Howard trade, ha…………..
I know that this blasphemy in these parts but…. what about Shelden? League minimum of course, he would be end of the bench guy, but he would work hard and know the Woody system (whatever that might be). Not his fault that he was the 5th pick, he would have been a 15 to 20 pick outside of the Hawks had not the BK picked him 5th. Both he and Zaza are in NYC, via twitter by the way. Shelden might not want to come back because he would be near his wife and kids in LA but he would fit on the bench for this Hawk team.

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ariose rofl with some heh heh to boot.

aj sekou just called it nonsense dude. you dont have to be proud just happy. heh heh

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Wow, the Salary cap decreased for this upcoming season. And they expect the cap to be even lower next season. That may have a major impact on the overhype FA class of 2010…

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Melvin,

Sorry. I must have gotten confused about whether I was writing on the blog or on my bar fact pattern…ha!

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PS, here’s my link of the day for people who insist on complaining why we’re not signing a mystic All-Star center this summer:
http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/The_Baseline/entry/view/26145/nba_free-agent_watch

Remember this was written BEFORE the free agent period started. And the #2 center in this year’s free agent class? Yup. Zaza. And frankly, I’d put him ahead of Gortat, who for some reason has acquired an aura from the fact that he backed up D-12 (somewhere, Will Perdue is thinking “Damn, why didn’t that work for me?”)

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Melvin, I know right!!! who the hell wants to whatch Sean Williams highlights?? OOOhh….my bad clyde hehehe…..

That guy has mixes to like Evey Williams whos ever played in the NBA lol!

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Did you know that Peregrine Falcons are the fastest animals on Earth? Up to 90mph!!!! And here I was worhipping(not really…just a figure of speech) the ground the Cheetah walked(ran) on all this time.

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If we lose ZaZa the blame will directly be placed on Woody. Al took his starting role away, that is a a given. Woody delayed his remergence after injury even after he was healthy. ZaZa argueably played better than Al against big slower bangers. ZaZa just wanted a few more minutes when he felt he was a better fit. (speculation).

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Sekou,

Did you notice any improvements in Josh’s game while watching him play in the Pro Am game?

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Did they intersperse it with images of his different mugshots?

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LMFAO at Sarah Palin!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZxuI3CoFf8

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I.Mus, From the previous blog.

I have to agree with you:

Serena Wiliams > Venus Williams

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I would be willing to lay 4:1 odds that Josh will never be the leading scorer on a playoff time. There’s a reason Josh gets so many looks on the perimeter – the other teams WANT him to take it. He just doesn’t have the consistency (which admittedly can improve with time) smoothness (which rarely improves with time) to his offensive game.

If JJ goes, we need to get someone who scares defenders into double or triple teaming him as much as JJ does. And truth be told, there are probably less than 8 guys in the league who fit that bill better than JJ.

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[...] Sekou Smith — link Much has been made in the past 72 hours about Zaza’s impending departure and his being replaced [...]

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When Sund gets this summers signings and re-signings completed, he needs to go ahead and make an extension offer to JJ so we can avoid losing him next summer. If we have a great year and JJ has been re-signed, that may help in drawing interest from another good FA.

Another thought is this:
If I were Sund, I would try to get Marvin’s re-signing taken care of as quickly as possible this summer. That way if he is offered a S&T for Marvin next summer that will improve the Hawks, he will not have to wait until later in the summer like he would have to wait on Josh(Aug. 11) this summer if he was interested in trading him.

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KevinA,

Come on, dude. How’s it a knock on Josh to say that? I’d say the same is true of every player on our team other than JJ.

And no, if Kidd or Nash were PG, Josh wouldn’t be a superstar, at least not on offense. On the offensive end, Josh isn’t at the level of a Dirk or Amare.

All I’m saying is that if JJ goes, we need someone who is at least as scary to opposing defenses as JJ is. Otherwise, we backslide. Ask Josh, and I’m sure he’d tell you the same thing.

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Bibby signing will detract from Teague’s minutes, if Woodson follows his gameplan. But good deal nonetheless.
And that blogotology sh*t makes no sense at all

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ZaZa should be the next priority

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Hoops… I agree. Offer an extension to JJ for 4-5 years then sign and trade Marvin for a big (Chandler/Varejao)

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Also, R.I.P Billy Mays(the OxyClean guy)

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jamal crawford is too expenssive to be in the flip murray role. are we gonna see more JJ at the 3 a lot?

if so, then what happens to marv? he’s gonna be an expensive part time 3 as well…

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NIREMETAL-Most people around here thought the same thing about Boris Diaw, and he got much more of an opportunity to succeed than solo. Look at how he turned out. If a HC wants consistency, he has to be willing to give consistent mins and opportunity. IN MOST CASES A HC GETS WHAT HE GIVES.

Solo went from playing over 11 mins a gm as a rookie to 4 mins a gm his 2nd yr. That shows it wasn’t a matter of Woodson not having anytning to work with, it was just a matter of him refusing to work with what he had. Only a stubburn egotistical HC would ignore and punish players just because they don’t feature the exact skills you want. A qualified HC looks beyond that and finds ways to take advantage of the skills a play does feature.

Before coming to the Pistons, Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups were bench warming nomads because their previous HC’s focused on what they couldn’t or didn’t do well. They didn’t change their gms or acquire new skills after coming to the Piston. They teamed up with a HC that focused on what they could and did do well and found ways to take advantage of those skills.

Woodson has proven to be too shortsighted, narrowminded and unwilling to devote the time and effort to evaluate all of the young talent he has and figure out how to incorporate that talent into his system. Because ALaw wasn’t the shooter Bibby was, he was cast aside and the team was deprived of his much needed speed, quickness, DEF and penetrating ability, which were all of the things Bibby lacked.

This pattern has been repeated with BDiaw, RIvey, DSmith, SWilliams, SStaudamire and SJones. Hell, I can’t imagine anyone thinking former Hawks PG Anthony Johnson was a better shooter/scorer and overall PG than ALaw. Yet, even though Johnson wasn’t going to get any better no matter how many mins and opportunities he got, he still got consistent mins, and as a starter. This was the results of Woodson’s shortsightedness.

Here’s another example of his shortsightedness. You have Zaza, who’s and excellent rebounder, but has trouble finishing, is turnover prone, limited defensively and mobility wise. He’s made it clear he wants to become a starter again and he’s going to be a FA after the season. You also have SJones, who’s young, athletic, a decent rebounder with the potential to be a good shotblocker. He has excellent hands, mobility, finishes well inside and will be a RFA after the season.

Since you’re almost guaranteed a chance of resigning the RFA, wouldn’t it make good sense to find out what you have? At least give him an average of 15-20 mins a gm over a 10-12 gm stretch to see what he can do? As it stands, we’re being held hostage by our 2nd string center while after 3yrs on the team, we still don’t know with any degree of certainty if Solo can carry the load. Now that’s a doggone shame considering how badly we are in need of Bigs. Reducing Solo’s mins per gm from over 11 down to 4 is a hell of a way to find out.

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Ken strickland wow your right on point and at the end of the day it come to the head coach.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!

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Jamal and joe in the back court with bibby and flip coming of the bench make this team better.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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82MILL dollar payroll can the hawks afford that i dont no but if you want to contend you have to spend.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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Ken,you nailed it.The only thing that could probably change the way Woody does things is for Sund to give him a 3 or 4yr deal and take his insecurity from him.As long as he coaches to save his job and not to develop,what you stated in your post is what we will get.The only option is to fire him now.

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“wow, the landlord, now he is our missing piece.”
sorry for the horrible english guys.

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I’m quite content if …

The Hawks resign Marvin and Zsa Zsa. The balance of power in the East is not built to last. Boston – getting older by the hour. Cleveland – overachieved with marginal talent (& the best player in the league) then screwed it up with Mo and now Shaq. Orlando, definitely a strong team over the duration but VC was a poor add for the long term.

We are assembling a deep talented team that should continue to improve over the next 3 to 5 years. I appreciate that the ASG stepped up this summer, it was a complete surprise and they deserve our praise. We must not overreach (I can’t believe I’m saying this about the ASG) but maintain some cap flexability and remember we likely want to resign JJ and must resign Horford in the cominf years.

One fans opinion

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Stinger- I support your opinion. Very nicely put. I would like to add one more free agent big, maybe Anderson fills that role. We also have to do something with Childress, at least get a draft pick for him. I definitely agree with you on the other Eastern conference teams moves. I think they are very overrated. Now, I will admit Boston getting Sheed is impressive… Here’s hoping that Garnett’s knee and Allen’s age become more of an issue.

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Daniel i say trade horford and chill for amar’e not josh and plus we need that low post presence that command double team we have no one.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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Ken,

Your list of players that Woody held back is a joke and so is your argument. yes, Boris did have a “decent” season last year but the rest of your list is “GARBAGE”. No other way to put it.

I’m gonna do one of them Ando bets and say that neither one of your listed “studs”(other than Diaw) will see more than 15 minutes a game on any NBA team this year.

It’s obvious that you “HATE” Woody but your argument can’t hold water due to the fact that the man has improved this team 3 years in a row.

Donta Smith, are you freakin kidding me. Is dude still alive?

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I still laugh when I see that “Woody is coaching to save his job” line. Some nerve huh?

Judging by the amount of time some spend here. I can see where that would be a strange concept.

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Sautee,

Sorry if that wasn’t clear, but I was talking about being the scoring leader during the course of the regular season. Josh stepped it up when Joe got hurt in the playoffs…but then again, we were Jekyll and Hyde (and more Hyde than Jekyll) during the playoffs.

Somehow, I doubt you actually think we’d make the playoffs if we had to rely on Josh as our leading offensive option for a whole season. There’s a reason why Marvin was the one who got the ball the most when JJ was out of the game altogether this season…

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Anakin Joe -I want flip back because he’s a baller..Period point blank-
If he is brought back I see a 3 man rotation at the pg-Bibby/Flip/Teague
and crawford backing up JJ-which is a good thing so the man doesnt have to play 40 minutes a night. With Crawford subing for JJ there isnt a big drop off in scoring. Lets be real here I dont care what Woody says teague wont play alot even tho I think he should so having two proven Pg’s goes a long way.
So I guess sum people feel Flip is’nt worth 2.5 mill a year when we have scrubs like Gardner and Morris didnt contribute at all and were getting paid in the same ball park.

AC,Speedy,Bibby,Gardner,Flip,JJ 3 out of 6 produced

Bibby,Crawford,Teague,JJ,Flip -All of these guy are proven except teague and he’s probably better than both AC and speedy right now

My point is you can never have enuff scoring off the bench, if we have to part with Gardner Hunter or Morris to keep Flip then lets get’er dun

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Nire,

While I agree with you in that we cannot rely on Josh to be our go to guy on offense. He (Josh) has proved to be just as(if not more) important as JJ to the overall success of the Hawks.

You stated:

If JJ goes, we need to get someone who scares defenders into double or triple teaming him as much as JJ does. And truth be told, there are probably less than 8 guys in the league who fit that bill better than JJ.

I have to disagree with that statement. There are plenty of players in the league who require a double team. I can count at least twenty. Joe’s problem is that he hasn’t yet learned to trust his teamates so that we can take advantage of these doubles more. If i’m not mistaken, our offense did just fine without him.

For the record: No one requires a triple team. Never will.

That being said, If we can re-sign him, i’m happy. I like where we are at, just add a big and work my two year plan. In 2010-11 will be competing for a ring.

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SEKOUS TWITTER PAGE SAYS HAWKS AND ZAZA ON VERGE OF DEAL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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JJM,

I’m Sekou’s cousin so i’ll answer that.
ZaZa is a good player and helped us out tremendously this year but for what we need, post defense and shot blocking ability, I’d rather have Wilcox. He can give you everything ZaZa can but with that extra “SWAG”. You know what i’m sayin?

But i’d take ZaZa back in a heartbeat.

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Mr. Niremetal, you have been a consistent participant on this board and have advocated your point of view aggressively albeit with somewhat less accuracy. Citing your impending and perhaps imminent membership in the legal proffession, you have opined on subjects ranging from the salary cap and it various and sundry implications for the Hawks to the statistical performance comparisons of the various players who are or could be members of the 2009-10 Atlanta Hawks.

However, there is one point of contention that I must perforce raise with you: your understanding and or articulation of generally accepted principles of accounting is lacking in both fact and application.

Please review the terms net worth,in particular as it aplies to corporate entities such as Limited Liability Corporations. Also, please further expand your understanding of cash flow and as it relates to operating expenses as well as the distinction between balance sheet transations and income statement analysis. These actions may have little bearing on your ultimate professional career but they would enhance the value of your participation here.
PS. When you argue the utility of one Mr. Josh Smith re the Hawks franchise’s future and his participation therein , please don’t stray from the facts-your opinion is duly noted.

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Sounds like Sund is rounding the band back for a reunion tour. And in this market, it is doubtful that he is over-paying for any of them. Given the timing (early in free agency) they are seemingly returning because they want to be here, not because they have no other options.

Even if/when Zaza returns, we MUST get another quality big man… not Siler, Aminu, Robert Swift or some project, but a legit veteran big man in ADDITION to Zaza.

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RESIGN ZAZA AND ADD WILCOX AND MARVIN TO A CHEAP CONTRACT (NO ONE ELSE WANTS HIM. TEAMS ARE LOOKING FOR CHEAP VETERAN SF’S…MATT BARNES MAY GO TO CLEVELAND…NO ONE WANTS TO OVERPAY FOR MARVIN).

SO SIGN ZAZA, AS WE WILL, ADD WILCOX, RESIGN MARVIN, AND THEN ADD 1 OR 2 MORE BIGS LIKE ROBERT SWIFT WHO MIGHT ACTUALLY BE USEFUL THIS YEAR. WE HAVE THE MONEY TO GET IT DONE.

AFTER U HAVE RESIGNED EVERYONE, LOCK JOSH SMITH IN A GYM FOR 2 MONTHS WITH PATRICK EWING, STEVE SMITH, OLAJUWON, REGGIE MILLER, AND MARK PRICE, AND TEACH HIM HOW TO SHOOT A BASKETBALL AND POST UP.

THEN, MAYBE THEN THIS TEAM WILL BE ABLE TO COMPETE WITHOUT TRADING FOR AMARE OR BOSH

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Ray,

Come on, man. You know the phrase “a playoff team” does not refer to “on that team while it is playing in the playoffs. And even if it did, here’s quick food for thought – while Josh was our leading scorer in the playoffs, he was our leading scorer in only 1 of our 4 wins.

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Guys, come on…Flip is not coming back and he is not a priority. He was our first guard off the bench last year and now that job has been handed to Crawford. Plus Teague will get some run only for the fact that Woody had some say in the draft process this year. So that is 4 quality guards on the roster. Add Marvin, Josh, Al, Mo and probably Zaza and we are 9 deep already. Adding one final big thru free agency like a Wilcox will get us 10 deep with Solo and Mario filling out the roster.

As much as I love Flip, he is going to find another team that will be able to use him as a 6th or 7th man and ensure him quality minutes.

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AJ,

So the sky isn’t falling after all?

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Othello and Mario should be our 11th and 12th men if not our IR. Othello is a decent talent

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Wow. ESPN is reporting that the cap is probably going to drop to around 53.6 mil next year. If that’s the case the highly sought after free agent class of 2010 is not going to get the money they were expecting. No teams will have the cap room. It also should send a signal to Marvin and JJ particular that it may be in their best interest to sign deals now as there will be less money out there next year.

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Anakin Joe,

Crawford haven’t played his 1st game in a Hawks uniform yet, why so much angusih towards him?

You seem to imply that the Hawks could have move AC/Speedy for a big man. Outside of Zach being traded to Memphis (Okay, I will give you Shaq). But how many big men have you seen traded this offseason? That should be a telling sign in itself. Teams value their BIGS. So you are not going to get a quality Big Man for peanuts.

Also, trading for Crawford didn’t have a major impact on our salary cap (outside of the increase payroll) b/c the Hawks were already over the cap. It’s not like he deny the Hawks an addition roster spot. So again, I don’t see your beef with acquiring a potent scorer (who’s a legit 2nd opt) for players that wasn’t a contributing factor???

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Totally agree with you Anakin and Quest. Need 2 more bigs. I would LOVE ZaZa + Wilcox but I bet we won’t make that happen. Ratliff, Joe Smith, or Magloire got anything left in the tank? Those guys seem to come in handy come playoff time.
Sign and trade Childress to Portland for a 1st round pick- lottery protected even though that won’t come into play. I am sure that is a pipe dream for the Hawks. Seems like it might be a good fit for Portland, but I don’t know how many picks they have stored away.
Flip helped us out so much last year, but we do have a guy that averaged 20 ppg coming in to fill his spot! Flip will get 2-3 Mill from someone and we should now use that money toward another big man.

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Sautee,

I’m not sure why you think I said that there were only 20 people in the league that command a double team. This one isn’t even a matter of me being unclear – that’s just not what I said. I said that there are probably fewer than 8 people who draw a double team better (read: more consistently and quickly) than JJ. And now that I think about it, the number is probably closer to 4 or 5. Now we can argue over whether that’s because of the way our offense is run or because of JJ’s offensive abilities; I think that it’s both. But in no way did I say that there were ONLY 8 people in the league that draw a double team. Again, you either misread me or were setting up a straw man.

As for JJ taking advantage of double teams, that topic has been beaten into the ground. What the hell is he supposed to do if Woody’s “offense” calls for everyone to stand 20 feet away without moving?

And while no player may “require” a triple team, he usually gets them at least a couple times per game. And there are a couple teams (I noticed the Sixers did it especially) that used triple teams on him pretty consistently this year whenever Woody called for an “ISO Joe” play (we all know that one…JJ is on the right wing, everyone else is at least 20 feet away on the left wing or in the left corner, which makes them absurdly easy to “guard”).

Heh…back to work.

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Melvin, nire may have addressed it earlier, if Sund reallywanted Crawford, he may not have had the time to look at other options because of Speedy’s declining salary and Crawford’s increasing salary. I did not think that Sund could acquire a big for Acie & Speedy. But he did increase his payroll by around $3M for a one-dimensional guy who ideally would play off the bench. Sorry, I just can’t see why I WOULD get excited by that deal. Several of the bloggers here spent most of last year pointed out every possible brown spot in our yard and I simply don’t see how Crawford addresses any single one of those spots. And I guess when my GM acquires a $10M player, I think he should address a problem area.

Is Chris Wilcox better than Solo? Seriously, if Solo received Wilcox’s time in the past 2-3 seasons, would the results be much different? I think I’d rather have Drew Gooden.

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Hoops,

If we traded Mo and Marv who would play the SF and backup SF positions?

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nire,

LOL! Now you’re confusing me with Samuel. Didn’t think THAT would ever happen!

I can’t set up a straw man in an argument I had no part in. Take your accusations down the road to where they belong.

And slow down enough to read the posters names.

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“Solo has the better shooter”= Solo is the better shooter…

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AJ,

Your boy Woody said that in his opinion we needed to bring everyone back and make some minor tweaks to the bench. That looks to be where we’re headed.

He also said he was delighted with having Crawford. So why aren’t you?

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Hoops-
I really like the financial break down seems reasonable. At 2.8 mil for a year you are looking at a Theo Ratcliffe(type) older, injury questions type big man. Which give your scenario with Za and Davied Anderson in the fold is not a horrible idea. The only thing missing for your breakdown is the Childress issue. We have to use some salary in his direction(either in QOF or S/T). Unless he goes back to Greece. So that throws a monkey into the works.

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Melvin that sounds great, but I doubt you would get takers, and we have to get back some salary.

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Melvin ,

In regard to your 12:05 p.m. post…come on now, have you ever seen a scarecrow take a bite of a crow? Heh heh heh…

Nire,

Okay, explaining everything that you didn’t say in the first place makes sense now. Uh, what was your point about Josh Smith leading in scoring in only one of the four wins? Not sure where you were going with that one, and to be honest, I’d have to look it up to know who WAS the leading scorer in the other 3…Yes, the whole team was Jekyll and Hyde. Even JJ (yes yes, I know he was injured against Cleveland). Yet another result of our awesome offensive scheme. Oh, I forgot, our offense is just fine. It’s our defense that sucks. Just the defense. Heh.

As for Josh never being the leading scorer on a playoff team, I don’t really care if he is or not. And I don’t care that JJ is normally our leading scorer, regular season or not…what I really care about is having more than one (or even two) guy who can be a consistent threat on offense, and more than one who can take over a game. I think we’re more headed in that direction with the addition of Crawford, but we need more, and it has to come from the frontcourt.

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Sekou,
I was at the Adamsville Rec Center for the 8 PM game featuring Josh Smith and Mario West. Your thoughts?
The “between the leg dunk” by Josh was so quick that it took most in attendance a few seconds to realize what he did and react to the dunk.
Nothing new from Josh (jump hooks – a few 3’s) or Mario (relentless drives to the hoop.- tough or should I say rough defense) I did see Mario take two jumpers – he missed both.

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Nate Archiball,

I ain’t worried about the dunks. Was he hitting the hooks and 3s?

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Hoops your numbers look good, if your not taking into account next year. Even if JJ and Marvin go, to stay competitive we’re going to have to bring back guys around the same salary and skill level. (personally if we have any improvement next year JJ is staying) I really expect Sund to upgrade or keep but not add! Which means we’re stuck with Zaza and Solo, upgrade one or both. Adding guys like Bass and Wilcox means around 8-10M/year total. Last year we had Zaza and Solo for 4.8M. The ideal situation is to find a guy worth 7M and then add a guy like Solo for .8M. But I think the reality is resigning Zaza for 4M and sign Bass/Wilcox for the MLE. I hope Sund can get that done, but I’m not confident about getting Bass or Wilcox.

GO HAWKS!!!

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The salary cap for next year, according to ESPN, will be even lower. This is GREAT NEWS for the Hawks. The Hawks may be in contention for the Conference Finals NEXT year. In addition to the Celts getting older, the salary cap will cause teams to shed the higher priced players. I like the Hawks chances NEXT year

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http://twitter.com/sekousmith01/status/2532894985

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Melvin, Daniel, & Stinger,

I’ll agree that the Childress situation puts everything on hold until July 15. I guess, if I were Sund, I would meet w/Chills, his agent, and Woodson and say we are going to give you a real opportunity to start if you will re-sign w/the Hawks. If he will agree to come back, then I would pursue opportunities to S&T Marvin for a really good BIG. You may have to include some combination of Evans/West/Solo/Morris to make it happen, especially Evans because of his salary amount. That would put Chills @ SF and get a quality BIG, possibly a starter @ C. Then you could let the new C and Zaza fight for the C position and allow Josh & Horford to fight it out @ PF. Josh can also log some time @ SF to back up Chills.

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Sekou on twitter: Pachulia is on the verge of a deal with Hawks!

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Wow… ZA ZA back…? Sund is getting it in… definitely earning his check… gotta love our players for wanting to stay with what we building here…

Ray..

yea.. i was just talking about from an offensive stand point.. i mean if you look at it.. our bigs are usually at a high post position unless Woody wants to iso them on the block. even then they never have deep post position. Solo is good for a pick and pop.. he has a nice shooting touch.. shows it at the line, and remember that 3… defensively he works out.. i mean you can say that he’s foul prone but that comes from lack of burn. he doesnt have a feel for the game, and most of the opponents that he faces cause he never gets consistent time. that usually yields being out of position, not knowing opponents go to moves, being over aggressive, or over playing.. all that comes from a lack of time, i blame Woodson.. he is long, athletic, and can shoot… play him…!!!

im a fan of Loso.. hope he’s retained and continues to work…

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When Marvin sits or is injured, there is no one to guard big SFs like LeBron/Pierce/Tork etc. Andersen’s outside shooting at PF allows us to slide Smoove to pick up some effective back-up SF minutes. We need that to survive in the playoffs. MO is just too small for big SFs.

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if you have espn insider can somebody post think link

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=OffseasonRankings-09&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dford_chad%26page%3dOffseasonRankings-09

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Replacing Marvin with Chills as our starting sf? Idk about that. Marvin has gotten better every year. He’s starting to make the 3 with consistency, he draws fouls and actually makes his free-throws, and not to mention, he’s our best perimeter defender. I like Chills, but be careful what you ask for.

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Free agent center Zaza Pachulia has agreed to terms with the Hawks on a long-term deal, according to two sources familiar with the situation.

Pachulia, 25, spent the last four years with the Hawks on a $16 million deal. His new deal is believed to be for the same amount of years but with a significant raise, according to one of the sources familiar with the situation.

RELATED STORIES
Hawks, Pachulia agree to terms 
Bibby agrees to multi-year deal with Hawks 
Hawks can find bargains in free agency 
       More Hawks coverage
Today is the first day free agents can sign contracts and trades can be completed.

Veteran point guard Mike Bibby agreed to terms on a new three-year, $18 million deal with the Hawks Tuesday.

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I hope it’s no more than 4 yr. 19 mill. 20 mill at the most.

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Terrell Barron,

Are you serious about trading Bibby,Mo and Morris for Joel Prizbilla? Cmon now!! lets be serious.. I still find it funny how till bibby came here we didnt make it to the playoffs but he helped get us there and now everyone wants to get rid of him..lol AtL Fans..We dont know what Jeff Teague will do in this league yet and until then we need a point guard like Bibby

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Sautee, go ahead, stick your neck out there. If it gets chopped off, it will grow back. Trust me, I’ve had mine cut off several times on this blog. In fact, you have held the ax more than a few times. Come on, don’t just sit back and provide commentary, have an opinion. What do you think Sund should do?

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Per Reggie’s request:

10. Hawks

Key additions: Jamal Crawford, Jeff Teague

Key subtractions: Speedy Claxton, Acie Law

In limbo: Marvin Williams (R), Josh Childress (R), Zaza Pachulia (U), Ronald Murray (U)

The Hawks are still, by and large, a team in limbo. GM Rick Sund has solidified his backcourt by re-signing free agent Mike Bibby, trading for combo guard Jamal Crawford and drafting the uber-athletic combo guard Jeff Teague. But the frontcourt still has lots of questions.

Williams, Childress and Pachulia are all free agents. And there continues to be rumblings that Josh Smith can be had for the right price. I think it’s going to be a few more weeks until we know for sure which direction the Hawks are really heading. But for now it looks like they’re maintaining the status quo.

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terrell- why would you want to trade Bibby after we just signed him to a very nice deal for the Hawks. Oh yeah, making sure all the good will we were talking about with negotiating with our veterans is worth throwing away on Prizbilla? What?

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since when did Pryzbilla become so valuable? you would actually think of including Marvin in that deal?

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Daniel,

Based on what other FA’s are getting, I’m thinking Zaza gets a 4 year deal for 24M.

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Nir,

I don’t quite understand what you mean by drawing the double team “better”. Explain that if you would.

Again, no one “requires” a triple team. Do players do it. Yea. That’s because they see a weakness in JJ passing out of one. Kinda like giving Josh the “Three”. If you can’t score out of a triple team then something is bad wrong.

I’ve seen JJ on countless occassions “pound” the air out of the ball and not hit the open man. There’s just no excuse for that. None. The great ones don’t do it. It’s not about Woody’s offense either. If the man is open, he needs to hit him, period. Not wait to get trapped or try to dribble through three people. he’s not “THAT” good.

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Zaza 4 years 22 Mil Is All He Should Get.

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Stirrin’ the pot….stirrin’ the pot…

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Big Ray,

Coaching is one of those professions that is out there for the public to see and because of that, everyone thinks that they can do it better than the person that is actually coaching. I know. I’ve been in the profession for 32 years. There is much more to putting together a consistent winner than most people understand.

Coach Woodson has done a great job in his short time with the Hawks. They have consistently improved each year under some trying conditions. He has turned a team from one that hardly any players wanted to be a part of, to a team that all of their FA’s want to re-sign with. Now we have players like J. Crawford that are really excited to come and be a part of what is being built here. We also must recognize that the ASG has made a financial commitment to back this team so that all of this improvement is possible.

I think Hawks fans need to wise up and see what is really developing here in the ATL!!!

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Hoops,

Now you’ve got the spirit!!!

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Hoops,

Same could be said of the GM job. Some people think you can’t question the coach, but you CAN question the GM. Weird concept…

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Big Ray- your 2:13 post is funny.
Hoops- I hear you on your concerns about Marvin’s back, but I would still say he would have greater trade value if locked into a 4 year 28 mil contract. He would certainly still be worth more than Joe Pryzbilla.
I say get a long term contract done(as already mentioned) play this year out and see where his value is. If healthy and improving, you have him at a great deal. If there are still health concerns, his contract and upside would still be attractive trade bait in an offseason with so many expensive free agents.

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Ray, I’ll ask you the same as I asked Sautee, if we have essentially the same pieces in places, will you be happy with the off-season? Don’t tell me what I said or what Woody said or what anyone else said.

Another question, did you think that the collective between Woody and the players would result in 47 wins and a 4th seed last year? Most of us were not and I kind of doubt that you were one of the more optimistic. So are you now saying that the formula works and doesn’t need to be tweeked?

I appreciate the admiration you continue to show in the nameless ridicule that you offer. I know what I have said in the past. Just trying to figure out if you have an opinion about our team design or if you’re just content to take shots at my perspective. Because when you seemingly take the “all is right with the team” approach, it kind of flies in the face of your 82-game commentary from last season.

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So Ray, so if one posits that Coach Woodson is a good coach by posing it in the form of a question , then does that make one pro Woodson or not? That is to say, just what is the flavor after stirring…lol?

He’s a dead man walking most likely so the real fun question may be guessing his departure date.

Looks like we can forget the “ZaZa not likely to return” headline of a few weeks ago! I think that is a good thing.

Sund seemingly moving with a more deliberate speed than last Summer. Is that a function of the economy? Is it the particular players did not have an inflated sense of value and/or really wanted to remain Hawks?

I think we’ll have more clues as to the answer if and when Marvin signs. Will Sund let the market decide as he did with the Josh’s last Summer? Is that a wise choice? Last offseason the consensus seemed to be that waiting to sign the player was not a good thing.

Why is there no cry for the Hawks to “show love” to Marvin? Were the Josh’s more deserving, ist hat it? I would argue that Marvin is somewhere in between. Not as valuable (at this point) as Smith, but more valuable than Childress.

Go Hawks!!

Still remain slightly hopeful. The frontline is still incomplete and that will be where the Hawks fortunes rise or fall.

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Ray, I used to question the coach too. I was amongst Woody’s harshest critics. But he (and the team) proved me wrong. I couldn’t keep complaining about sitting guys with 2 fouls for the remainder of the first half while we won (I could, but I thought I’d be like a child who refuses to let go of their baby-blanket). I look forward to Sund proving me wrong too (and that repeating the same formula that produced less than 8 playoff wins one year can produce more than 8 playoff wins the next). I like to think that I have the capacity to learn and grow, as opposed to shoot spitballs from the back of the room because it’s fun.

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I wonder what KEVIN GARNETT thinks about the Hawks bringing Zaza back? He can’t be too happy with this. LOL!!

“I don’t alwyas watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay hungry Hawks fan!”

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bigdave- I am with you on Marvin, but I have to agree with others when it comes to concerns over his back injury. Seriously, I hope he works on his overall fitness and flexability. I think if his back is not a long term issue then you can have serious force at SF for relative cheap(7 mil), if his back is bad and not going to get better, we could get stuck big time. There is the gamble.

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Manny T, just read your clarification of the Childress situation.

I think it helps explain why the “trend” that he was supposedly setting has yet to emerge.

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Obrien,

You’re kidding about Big “Barney” right. I thought Colangelo was supposed to be this guru GM.
So that’s where Ando is. He must be on the Raptor Blog pushing “HIS Boy” Bargnani. 10 mil for 5 years.

That Canadian economy must be doing pretty good.

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With the speculation of an even lower cap for the 2010-11 season. I think you may see more guys trying to resign this season vs waiting next summer if given the opportunity. I don’t foresee many teams surpluging big next summer b/c there will be less cap space which may force teams to bypass on the idea of signing 2 major FA’s….

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I like the way the Hawks are building this team. Start with the point guard position, make sure you are comfortable with it, and move forward. I still believe that finding forwards and big men is easier than finding the right PG for your team. The Hawks are in fine position there and can go out and spend some on either resigning Marvin, or looking at other talent. I love the deal for Zaza. You need that kind of big man to come in and play hard fought minutes off the bench.

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Astro Joe,

If you don’t know what my opinion is by now, you haven’t been reading a single damn thing I’ve posted. Which is strange since you so readily (yet vaguely) bring up my comments for the past season.

How is it you can remember everything I said last season, but not what I’ve been saying for the past few weeks? Nevermind, I don’t even know if I WANT to hear that one. One more time:

I think our offense needs tweaks. I say this has to come from both coaching staff and players. It requires a committment to a more versatile and cohesive offense. You say it works. I say it can be better, and will need to be for us to compete in the tougher games. Case in point: we barely got away from Miami in the first round of the playoffs. I realize defense was a big problem. But offense was a big problem, too. You can argue that point all you want. Our offense has issues.

I think our defense and rebounding will get better if we can commit to it as a team, and if we add a player or two in the frontcourt to help in the areas of defense and rebounding. Yes, we can use some help in the backcourt as well. Crawford may not be known for his defensive prowess as a rule, but I believe he can be more disruptive on defense than either Bibby or Flip, and has the size advantage as well. As for the existing players, guys like Josh Smith need to ramp it up in both categories. Everybody does, but those with greater ability in these areas need to shoulder the responsibility a bit more, yet they should not be relied on as sole producers.

Back to the offense: Crawford gives us another guy who can create his own shot, and is not afraid to shoot. And for the millionth time, we got him for a couple of guys who have done little for us (I seem to recall you were especially critical of Law, so what your problem is NOW, seems superficial), and between them were making nearly the same as Crawford.

I have been heavily critical of Woody and will not back off of some of those criticisms until I see otherwise. However, I cannot help but feel positive about a guy who, despite not getting a contract extension, is upbeat about the draftpick, the trade acquisition, and getting his guys back. Like him or not, that’s an example of class and professionalism And I’m serious about that.

Now you can keep telling me that you don’t care what Woody said and all that other $hit if you want to. And you can tell me you are trying to figure out what my opinion is. But you already know this. Just about all you’ve done up to this point is gripe about every single move Sund has made, rejected Woody’s attitude and inputs out of hand (a strange move considering the fact that you upheld his opinions and decisions during the last season) in your “fury”, and shot one spitball after the other from the back of the classroom. Oh yes. YOU.

All I’ve done is shot spitballs back at you. Don’t like it? Put your straw down (pun intended).

And before you start up with it again, NO I don’t think this team is completely improved yet, but bringing back the guys you have succeeded with is a start (like Bibby and Zaza). Adding a guy who gives you another sure scoring option (and someone who can run the point for you when you really need Flip to stay at the 2) when you’ve lacked that for some time is another step.

We may not like the order in which things are getting done, but they are getting done, and faster than we are used to.

I feel better about things going into this season than I did last season. But I’m also not stupid enough to pass judgement on this offseason when (for the damn millionth time) IT HAS JUST BEGUN . Seriously, we are on the first day of the offseason that teams can actually sign free agents!

I’m not saying anything NOW that I haven’t said for some time. I am feeling positive. I can’t help you if you aren’t. That’s your choice.

Understand my opinion now?

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OK PEOPLE WE GET THE IDEA. TEAMS WILL SPEND MORE THIS YEAR BECAUSE THE CAP IS GOING DOWN NEXT YEAR.

SH*T — HOW MANY MORE TIMES DO I HAVE TO READ THIS IN THE SAME BLOG?

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Astro, weren’t you up in arms about Crawford coming over saying that the Hawks couldn’t sign any of their own free agents? 2 for 2 so far.

I said we should give Sund a “wait and see” approach and let the man do his job. He’s doing a good job so far. Let’s take care of Marvin, so if someone offers Chill, and possibly bring over Andersen.

Get another big and we’re off to the races. This is exciting!

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Guess Sund’s on a role now…

Now let’s reel in Marvin,
Get a mid-level BIG,

and we can call that an OFFSEASON!

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Sund is handling his business. If we can add another quality big then I think we can even be better than last year. People get over Flip. I like what he did for us but we don’t need more guards we need bigs. And I would rather have Hunter at the end of the bench than Mario. I think Hunter will be a good player in the future. I know Mario hustles and all but I would rather have a guy who has more skills than just hustle.

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Lebron, it will be fun to not like you anymore. No class.

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Kirk ,

I had to laugh at your initial questions. I don’t know for certain if Woodson is a dead man walking or not, but I do like his attitude. Pure professionalism at this point, and whether or not that translates to an extension…ehh, probably has nothing to do with it.

On the flip side of the coin, the burden of proof is on him. If he succeeds with this team, however it ends up being constructed by season’s start, does he not deserve an extension? Some are of the opinion that this team is being built with the purpose of getting him fired. While that is a possibility, it comes with a chuckle. Seems to me that this team was always built to be a running team since Knight got his grip on it, only there were some pieces missing for the longest time (a decent pg being the foremost piece).

Has this team ever been built to play halfcourt? I think not, and therefore the theory that it has suddenly become that seems false to me. One of the most pivotal pieces of a halfcourt team is a dominant frontcourt/post player. Have we ever had one of those since Knight arrived? No. Theory debunked right there. But I digress, and this is hardly the point (though it makes for a great diversion).

I agree that a lot hinges on what happens in the frontcourt. But Zaza has already agreed to terms, so some of that is solved. As for additional resources in that area, it’s going to be a hard road to hoe.

Why do people assume that Sund has not made attempts to shore that area up? Are we really to assume that because it has not happened yet that it will NOT happen? I’m tired of saying that it’s only July 8th, not November 8th. As you would say, now is not squishy time. We can save that for later, if we cross that bridge.

Good questions about why Sund is moving at a quicker and more deliberate pace this time around. I am not fool enough to think I have the correct answers, but I assure you that I am pleased with his pace as it stands right now.

Marvin has been a victim of his draft status in the minds of fans since day 1. His production is steady as a rock, but he doesn’t stand out. Pretty much ever. He’s not the leader in any major category that I can think of, and maybe not in the top three of most…that being in comparison to his teammates, not the rest of the league at his position.

Am I taking shots at the guy? No. But that may be one reason why you don’t see the same outcry, despite the fact that Marvin is a necessity. Both the Joshes were more dynamic players. Is it right or wrong? No, it is what it is. I’d rather see him either signed to a long term contract that’s reasonable, or traded for a highly useable piece, than see him go on the one year qualifier.

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With the announcement today that the cap will be lower next year than this year, I’ll be surprised if Marvin does not sign a long term deal this summer! I had though that he would take the QO before the announcement today. There will be even less money next year to spread around. Look for the big name FA’s to re-up with their teams this summer as well.

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Wow…good point about Marvin, Hoops. I hadn’t even thought about that. Lucky us, because lord knows someone will offer him a big raise next summer if they strike out on the big-time FAs and he’s available…

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Sautee and Ray, thanks. Do you not understand that there are two parts of a trade… what you send out and what you get back? Is it possible to object to one side of that equation? I think so. I have never objected to what went out the door, just what came back. Sund has made 4 moves, I have objected to 2 of 4. I don’t think that equals 100% of a disapproval rate. Does your math suggest differently?

In the past, you have challenged me about how much credit Woody should get for last season’s success. While your response to me did include some accountability for the players, I saw quite a bit for the coaching staff. So what do you think? 50/50 split between players and coaches? 60/40 coach/players?

If you were Sund, would you have focused on the defense or offense based on your evaluation? Neither are perfect. Which bucket would have received most of your off-season marbles. For me, defense (which is the sole reason I objected to Crawford and Teague).