Super Tuesday
The Hawks are the midst of trying to negotiate deals for both Marvin Williams (left) and Zaza Pachulia (center), two key free agents needed to help the Hawks keep pace in the constantly improving (and I mean by the day) Eastern Conference.
HAWKSVILLE - NBA free agents can put pen to paper Wednesday, consummating deals that have been in the works for days (and perhaps even longer for some).
The heavy lifting for the Hawks, however, comes a day early.
Hawks general manager Rick Sund is on his way to Washington D.C., where he will sit down with the representatives for three of the Hawks’ key free agents (Marvin Williams, Zaza Pachulia and Josh Childress) to hammer out the details of at least a couple of potential deals.
With Mike Bibby’s new deal needing only signatures, the Hawks can devote all the attention and resources necessary to the aforementioned players, and yes, that includes Childress (whose saga might not play out until after the July 15 deadline he has to either opt out of his contract with Olympiakos to return home and to the NBA. David Andersen, another player on the Hawks’ shopping list, has the same clause in his Spanish contract).
Folks keep asking what’s the latest on (All THE HAWKS’ SUMMER TARGETS)? So here’s a rundown, early on a day I’m dubbing Super Tuesday, of where things stand with the key players (and for a sobering look at just how crazy free agency is working this summer, check out this dagger from ESPN Insider and Alpharetta’s own John Hollinger):
MARVIN WILLIAMS: Using Charlie Villanueva’s deal in Detroit (5 years, $40 million-range) as your guide, things should get much easier to decipher in the curious case of Marvin Williams. With a qualifying offer of $7.5 million, we’re not talking about anything out of the ordinary her for a guy that’s proved to be a valuable starter the past three years. Finding another 6-9 starting small forward that fits the way he does on this team will not be easy, despite all of the suggestions around here to the contrary. Respected and prolific colleague Mark Bradley has suggested many times that if any of the Hawks’ remaining building blocks was expendable it was Marvin. But as I look across the free agent landscape, I cannot co-sign that theory. Not with the free agent moves/trades that have gone on in the Eastern Conference since draft night. Not with Hedo Turkoglu in Toronto now and Vince Carter in his old spot in Orlando. And not with Villanueva in Detroit and the addition of Rasheed Wallace in Boston. The length the Hawks used to their advantage across the frontline with Williams, Josh Smith and Al Horford is more critical than ever. Even in one of the many proposed sign-and-trade deals offered up around these parts, I don’t see the Hawks adding the piece that could take Marvin’s place on this roster (in fit, size and temperament … three crucial factors that Marvin brings that go largely unnoticed by the public). The Hawks have made clear their preference for Marvin to remain a part of the core of this team and I see no reason why that shouldn’t happen. I can’t see any scenario where he is not a part of this team in the future.
ZAZA PACHULIA: Much has been made in the past 72 hours about Zaza’s impending departure and his being replaced by Andersen, or a combination of players that includes the Australian big man. Slow down with that one. Sources tell me that while initially things didn’t look too good with the offer that was presented to him by the Hawks, the sides are working their way toward more agreeable terms (we’re talking slightly north of the $16 million over four years he signed for the last time he was a free agent but decidedly south of the $33 million over five years Marcin Gortat is expected to receive from Dallas). And in an Eastern Conference littered with bigs like Dwight Howard in Orlando, Shaquille O’Neal in Cleveland and now Wallace, Kevin Garnett and Kendrick Perkins in Boston (and that’s just on the teams that finished ahead of the Hawks in the standings last season), that’s a good thing. Because the Hawks can ill-afford to lose a player like Zaza. He’s the only real bruiser on the roster. He’ll set a hard pick and has shown he’s not afraid to mix it up with the likes of Garnett and Howard. And while I’m not heavy into the stats that seem to guide so many people’s opinions about players, I do believe that some numbers tell a far different story than what the heart and mind can. There were six regular season games and three playoff games during the 2008-2009 season where Zaza played 30-plus minutes. He averaged 9.8 points, 10.1 rebounds (and 4.1 offensive rebounds) in those games. That means when he was needed to play above and beyond his pay grade, Pachulia delivered.
JOSH CHILDRESS: Like Andersen, Childress would do better financially (at least in the next year or two) by returning to Greece for another season with Olympiakos. But if he’s intent on returning to the NBA this summer, and there are indications that he would indeed love to return, things could get tricky. Childress has already visited Milwaukee. And the Bucks could present him with an offer sheet and gamble that the Hawks might not match it (fat chance). The obvious solution for both sides would be a sign-and-trade deal (the starting salary for Childress wouldn’t even be the full mid-level of $5.6 million, though the total contract would be nearly $31 million over five years). The Bucks have all the necessary tools to make something like that happen. Whatever happens, the Hawks need to close the door on the Childress saga that began last summer during his first round of restricted free agency. His jersey number was given away last summer (to Mo Evans) in a way that should have signaled the end of his time with the Hawks to all of us. I know I’ve spent much of the last year plotting hypothetical scenarios in which he could return to the Hawks. I realize now, finally, it’s just not going to happen. So if there is any way to salvage a player (Bruce Bowen has been mentioned) and a possible second-round draft pick out of the deal, the Hawks could finally walk away from the entire mess with some measure of satisfaction.
Resolve two of the three issues above by July 15 and the Hawks will have made some serious headway into a summer that’s long from over. The roster still needs filling out. And that might not come until much later in the summer and possibly even training camp, where a hungry free agent pickup like Mario West won roster spots in each of the past two camps.
The Hawks will still have the resources to chase down another big man (or possibly two) to fill out the rotation, which is still in need of fortification. But the heavy lifting starts today in D.C.
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636 comments Add your comment
I MUS WRITE
July 8th, 2009
11:25 am
2-14
fudd21
July 8th, 2009
11:25 am
Wow. ESPN is reporting that the cap is probably going to drop to around 53.6 mil next year. If that’s the case the highly sought after free agent class of 2010 is not going to get the money they were expecting. No teams will have the cap room. It also should send a signal to Marvin and JJ particular that it may be in their best interest to sign deals now as there will be less money out there next year.
soultherapymag.com
July 8th, 2009
11:27 am
Signing Bibby back was a good move and hopefully getting Marvin Williams, Zaza Pachulia back will be good move and Josh Childress should try and stay that will give us a deep bench and starters.
Melvin
July 8th, 2009
11:30 am
Anakin Joe,
Crawford haven’t played his 1st game in a Hawks uniform yet, why so much angusih towards him?
You seem to imply that the Hawks could have move AC/Speedy for a big man. Outside of Zach being traded to Memphis (Okay, I will give you Shaq). But how many big men have you seen traded this offseason? That should be a telling sign in itself. Teams value their BIGS. So you are not going to get a quality Big Man for peanuts.
Also, trading for Crawford didn’t have a major impact on our salary cap (outside of the increase payroll) b/c the Hawks were already over the cap. It’s not like he deny the Hawks an addition roster spot. So again, I don’t see your beef with acquiring a potent scorer (who’s a legit 2nd opt) for players that wasn’t a contributing factor???
Anakin Joe
July 8th, 2009
11:33 am
Sautee, not yet. Still not one move to improve the defense. The pot-holes are still here, we just re-paved the parts of the street that didn’t have pot-holes as opposed to fixing them. So the sky is still up there and the pot-holes are still down here. Nothing much has changed. So tell me, is that how you would define a successful off-season?
Ben
July 8th, 2009
11:33 am
Totally agree with you Anakin and Quest. Need 2 more bigs. I would LOVE ZaZa + Wilcox but I bet we won’t make that happen. Ratliff, Joe Smith, or Magloire got anything left in the tank? Those guys seem to come in handy come playoff time.
Sign and trade Childress to Portland for a 1st round pick- lottery protected even though that won’t come into play. I am sure that is a pipe dream for the Hawks. Seems like it might be a good fit for Portland, but I don’t know how many picks they have stored away.
Flip helped us out so much last year, but we do have a guy that averaged 20 ppg coming in to fill his spot! Flip will get 2-3 Mill from someone and we should now use that money toward another big man.
A Tribe Called Quest
July 8th, 2009
11:33 am
Did not realize Miami is in the luxury tax zone. LOL they suck — have not improved at all this offseason
niremetal
July 8th, 2009
11:38 am
Sautee,
I’m not sure why you think I said that there were only 20 people in the league that command a double team. This one isn’t even a matter of me being unclear – that’s just not what I said. I said that there are probably fewer than 8 people who draw a double team better (read: more consistently and quickly) than JJ. And now that I think about it, the number is probably closer to 4 or 5. Now we can argue over whether that’s because of the way our offense is run or because of JJ’s offensive abilities; I think that it’s both. But in no way did I say that there were ONLY 8 people in the league that draw a double team. Again, you either misread me or were setting up a straw man.
As for JJ taking advantage of double teams, that topic has been beaten into the ground. What the hell is he supposed to do if Woody’s “offense” calls for everyone to stand 20 feet away without moving?
And while no player may “require” a triple team, he usually gets them at least a couple times per game. And there are a couple teams (I noticed the Sixers did it especially) that used triple teams on him pretty consistently this year whenever Woody called for an “ISO Joe” play (we all know that one…JJ is on the right wing, everyone else is at least 20 feet away on the left wing or in the left corner, which makes them absurdly easy to “guard”).
Heh…back to work.
Hoops
July 8th, 2009
11:38 am
Salary Cap Thoughts-
The way I’ve got it figured, the Hawks have about 2.5M to spend on a big in addition to Zaza and Andersen and be able to avoid the L.tax.
This is how it breaks down:
(all figures are rounded up)
Bibby-6M
Teague-1.3M
JJ-15M
Crawford-9.4M
West-1M (assuming we sign him to the QO)
Marvin-7.4M (assuming he takes the QO)
Evans-2.5M
J. Smith-10.8M
Horford-4.3M
Morris-.9M
Andersen-2.8M (assuming we sign him for the same money he now makes)
Zaza-6M (assuming this salary)
That’s 67.4M (give or take). That leaves 2.5M to get another BIG.
Another thought is to package Marvin and Evans together and go after a really good BIG.
Does anyone have any thoughts on a BIG for 2.5M? What about the Marvin/Evans package?
Anakin Joe
July 8th, 2009
11:41 am
Melvin, nire may have addressed it earlier, if Sund reallywanted Crawford, he may not have had the time to look at other options because of Speedy’s declining salary and Crawford’s increasing salary. I did not think that Sund could acquire a big for Acie & Speedy. But he did increase his payroll by around $3M for a one-dimensional guy who ideally would play off the bench. Sorry, I just can’t see why I WOULD get excited by that deal. Several of the bloggers here spent most of last year pointed out every possible brown spot in our yard and I simply don’t see how Crawford addresses any single one of those spots. And I guess when my GM acquires a $10M player, I think he should address a problem area.
Is Chris Wilcox better than Solo? Seriously, if Solo received Wilcox’s time in the past 2-3 seasons, would the results be much different? I think I’d rather have Drew Gooden.
A Thinking Fan
July 8th, 2009
11:44 am
Where’s the beef? No Bigs!
G-Man
July 8th, 2009
11:49 am
Hoops,
If we traded Mo and Marv who would play the SF and backup SF positions?
fudd21
July 8th, 2009
11:56 am
Hoops,
I seriously doubt that if we do bring Anderson over and resign ZaZa that we will get another big. Also trading Marvin and Evans for a big IMO would be crazy. Who would play SF.
Sautee
July 8th, 2009
11:57 am
nire,
LOL! Now you’re confusing me with Samuel. Didn’t think THAT would ever happen!
I can’t set up a straw man in an argument I had no part in. Take your accusations down the road to where they belong.
And slow down enough to read the posters names.
bigdave
July 8th, 2009
11:59 am
Niremental….
about Solo’s finesse game… it could be argued that Solo has the better shooter out of all our bigs…
bigdave
July 8th, 2009
12:00 pm
“Solo has the better shooter”= Solo is the better shooter…
Melvin
July 8th, 2009
12:05 pm
Anakin Joe,
“And I guess when my GM acquires a $10M player, I think he should address a problem area”
How many times did we fail to score above 90 pts in the playoffs? I think Crawford definitely addresses a need for us, even if he’s a one-dimensional scorer. Not only do you need defense but you must be able to score the ball as well. Flip (who I like) is not the player that Crawford is. Given him a chance before throwing him under the bus. Besides if you trash him now, you may have to eat crow during the season if he improves team play. Also, I noticed you didn’t mention the other Big Men that got trade this offseason…:)
Sautee
July 8th, 2009
12:06 pm
AJ,
Your boy Woody said that in his opinion we needed to bring everyone back and make some minor tweaks to the bench. That looks to be where we’re headed.
He also said he was delighted with having Crawford. So why aren’t you?
Hoops
July 8th, 2009
12:09 pm
G-man & fudd21,
Sorry, in the back of my mind I am still holding out for Childress to come back and play the SF position. Wouldn’t that be awesome to get Chills back and trade Marvin for a BIG! Chills may consider it if he sees a real possibility to start!
Daniel
July 8th, 2009
12:10 pm
Hoops-
I really like the financial break down seems reasonable. At 2.8 mil for a year you are looking at a Theo Ratcliffe(type) older, injury questions type big man. Which give your scenario with Za and Davied Anderson in the fold is not a horrible idea. The only thing missing for your breakdown is the Childress issue. We have to use some salary in his direction(either in QOF or S/T). Unless he goes back to Greece. So that throws a monkey into the works.
Melvin
July 8th, 2009
12:12 pm
I think in order to resign Chills, the Hawks may have to rid themselves of Mo Evans (who need to find another Jersey Number, hopefully with a different name on it) contract. How does Mo for a 2nd rounder sounds?
Daniel
July 8th, 2009
12:13 pm
Melvin that sounds great, but I doubt you would get takers, and we have to get back some salary.
Stinger
July 8th, 2009
12:23 pm
Hoops,
I love the listing with salaries and was doing the same totals in my head but missed some pieces.
However to trade Marvin / Evans and match a MLE for Chills you don’t gain enough space under the L Tax to add a quality big.
End game is your first conclusion – we have $2.5MM to add a big and all the discussion of who we need to get should start with that reality.
We all need to stop with the – lets sign Bass / Varejao / Lee / Millsap unless you start with “They won’t get a better offer than $2.5″.
Big Ray
July 8th, 2009
12:25 pm
Melvin ,
In regard to your 12:05 p.m. post…come on now, have you ever seen a scarecrow take a bite of a crow? Heh heh heh…
Nire,
Okay, explaining everything that you didn’t say in the first place makes sense now. Uh, what was your point about Josh Smith leading in scoring in only one of the four wins? Not sure where you were going with that one, and to be honest, I’d have to look it up to know who WAS the leading scorer in the other 3…Yes, the whole team was Jekyll and Hyde. Even JJ (yes yes, I know he was injured against Cleveland). Yet another result of our awesome offensive scheme. Oh, I forgot, our offense is just fine. It’s our defense that sucks. Just the defense. Heh.
As for Josh never being the leading scorer on a playoff team, I don’t really care if he is or not. And I don’t care that JJ is normally our leading scorer, regular season or not…what I really care about is having more than one (or even two) guy who can be a consistent threat on offense, and more than one who can take over a game. I think we’re more headed in that direction with the addition of Crawford, but we need more, and it has to come from the frontcourt.
Big Ray
July 8th, 2009
12:29 pm
Melvin,
Depends. Sergei has a friend that plays small forward. We can draft him in the 2nd round…
Nate ArchiBALL
July 8th, 2009
12:29 pm
Sekou,
I was at the Adamsville Rec Center for the 8 PM game featuring Josh Smith and Mario West. Your thoughts?
The “between the leg dunk” by Josh was so quick that it took most in attendance a few seconds to realize what he did and react to the dunk.
Nothing new from Josh (jump hooks – a few 3’s) or Mario (relentless drives to the hoop.- tough or should I say rough defense) I did see Mario take two jumpers – he missed both.
Big Ray
July 8th, 2009
12:33 pm
bigdave ,
I hear what you’re saying about Solo, and he might have the nicest shooting touch of our big guys. The issue is whether or not we need that from him. We kinda don’t. We need “tough guy”, and if he can’t do that better than anybody not named RandMo, he sticks to the bench like he has been. Not saying I don’t have a use for him, but I think we see why he hasn’t played that much. Personally, I think he’s useful down on the block as a rebounder/shot-blocker, except a banger he ain’t, and he’s a bit foul prone.
Big Ray
July 8th, 2009
12:35 pm
Nate Archiball,
I ain’t worried about the dunks. Was he hitting the hooks and 3s?
niremetal
July 8th, 2009
12:53 pm
Ray,
Agreed. Although again – JJ was hurt the whole second half of the year, not just against Cleveland.
Sautee,
My bad. I’m rushing through my posts today because I’m starting to get under more of a time crunch. Samuel – the post addressed to “Sautee” above was addressed to you.
kwooden1
July 8th, 2009
12:54 pm
Hoops your numbers look good, if your not taking into account next year. Even if JJ and Marvin go, to stay competitive we’re going to have to bring back guys around the same salary and skill level. (personally if we have any improvement next year JJ is staying) I really expect Sund to upgrade or keep but not add! Which means we’re stuck with Zaza and Solo, upgrade one or both. Adding guys like Bass and Wilcox means around 8-10M/year total. Last year we had Zaza and Solo for 4.8M. The ideal situation is to find a guy worth 7M and then add a guy like Solo for .8M. But I think the reality is resigning Zaza for 4M and sign Bass/Wilcox for the MLE. I hope Sund can get that done, but I’m not confident about getting Bass or Wilcox.
GO HAWKS!!!
niremetal
July 8th, 2009
12:57 pm
And Ariose – it looks like our tag team on Zaza worked!
ant banks
July 8th, 2009
12:57 pm
The salary cap for next year, according to ESPN, will be even lower. This is GREAT NEWS for the Hawks. The Hawks may be in contention for the Conference Finals NEXT year. In addition to the Celts getting older, the salary cap will cause teams to shed the higher priced players. I like the Hawks chances NEXT year
niremetal
July 8th, 2009
12:58 pm
Check out Sekou’s twitter feed if you’re not sure what I’m talking about:
http://twitter.com/sekousmith01
Sam
July 8th, 2009
12:59 pm
http://twitter.com/sekousmith01/status/2532894985
Nate ArchiBALL
July 8th, 2009
1:02 pm
Big Ray,
Nothing new … made two 3’s – missed a few 3’s and one air ball 3. Inside game wasn’t bad at all.
Hoops
July 8th, 2009
1:04 pm
Melvin, Daniel, & Stinger,
I’ll agree that the Childress situation puts everything on hold until July 15. I guess, if I were Sund, I would meet w/Chills, his agent, and Woodson and say we are going to give you a real opportunity to start if you will re-sign w/the Hawks. If he will agree to come back, then I would pursue opportunities to S&T Marvin for a really good BIG. You may have to include some combination of Evans/West/Solo/Morris to make it happen, especially Evans because of his salary amount. That would put Chills @ SF and get a quality BIG, possibly a starter @ C. Then you could let the new C and Zaza fight for the C position and allow Josh & Horford to fight it out @ PF. Josh can also log some time @ SF to back up Chills.
A Tribe Called Quest
July 8th, 2009
1:06 pm
If we can sign everyone cheap, I think we could contend NEXT year, as ant banks says. But some owners still will spend fortunes to try win, so it’s not the biggest deal in the world. Mark Cuban and the Dolans may make their moves
Cowa
July 8th, 2009
1:07 pm
Sekou on twitter: Pachulia is on the verge of a deal with Hawks!
Anakin Joe
July 8th, 2009
1:11 pm
Melvin, my guess is that Crawford shoots more jumpers than Flip. Or said differently, that a greater percentage of Crawford’s shot attempts are off jumpers than Flip. When I think of Flip, I think of hard drives into the lane. When I think of Crawford, I think of jumpers off the dribble. I don’t think this team needs more jump shooters, I think we need more shot attempts taken in the lane. And I don’t think that having another shooter fixes our playoff performance issues. We were destroyed on the glass. When I think of the Cavs series, I think of LeBron’s easy drives into the paint and Varejao (and Z) getting all kinds of offensive rebounds… like they were playing with little boys. I don’t think about needing another shooter to win a game or two in that series.
Sautee, I asked what did you think, not what Woody thinks/wants. Is bringing back the same coach and essentially the same pieces (Teague as young PG hoping to earn playing time, Crawford as instant combo guard offense from the bench) shaping up to you as a successful off-season for the GM?
bigdave
July 8th, 2009
1:15 pm
Wow… ZA ZA back…? Sund is getting it in… definitely earning his check… gotta love our players for wanting to stay with what we building here…
Ray..
yea.. i was just talking about from an offensive stand point.. i mean if you look at it.. our bigs are usually at a high post position unless Woody wants to iso them on the block. even then they never have deep post position. Solo is good for a pick and pop.. he has a nice shooting touch.. shows it at the line, and remember that 3… defensively he works out.. i mean you can say that he’s foul prone but that comes from lack of burn. he doesnt have a feel for the game, and most of the opponents that he faces cause he never gets consistent time. that usually yields being out of position, not knowing opponents go to moves, being over aggressive, or over playing.. all that comes from a lack of time, i blame Woodson.. he is long, athletic, and can shoot… play him…!!!
im a fan of Loso.. hope he’s retained and continues to work…
Daniel
July 8th, 2009
1:18 pm
Good news on the Pachulia front. I hope to get some numbers soon; so we can really break down the deal.
jerrywest
July 8th, 2009
1:19 pm
When Marvin sits or is injured, there is no one to guard big SFs like LeBron/Pierce/Tork etc. Andersen’s outside shooting at PF allows us to slide Smoove to pick up some effective back-up SF minutes. We need that to survive in the playoffs. MO is just too small for big SFs.
Daniel
July 8th, 2009
1:20 pm
bigdave- I couldn’t agree with you more about the fact that it is great to see our players wanting to stay. Did you see Bradley’s article. BTW- got to give Woodson some credit for creating this enviroment. He was mentioned directly by Bibby’s agent as a reason for wanting to return and at less money than was available.
When was the last time that happened for the Hawks?
Reggie
July 8th, 2009
1:21 pm
if you have espn insider can somebody post think link
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=OffseasonRankings-09&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dford_chad%26page%3dOffseasonRankings-09
doc
July 8th, 2009
1:25 pm
cheapo reggie arrives again. reggie why dont you just join yourself and then provide some substance to this forum. yeah i know bad economy and all, dont be a begger dude. bad karma, heh heh
terrell barron
July 8th, 2009
1:32 pm
Replacing Marvin with Chills as our starting sf? Idk about that. Marvin has gotten better every year. He’s starting to make the 3 with consistency, he draws fouls and actually makes his free-throws, and not to mention, he’s our best perimeter defender. I like Chills, but be careful what you ask for.
ant banks
July 8th, 2009
1:34 pm
DOC,
i’m wit’ reggie. if someone has access, post it let us know what’s goin’ on. i thought we wuz hawks fam? heh heh.
besides, i think that ESPN is tryin’ to rip people off wit’ the “INsider” anyway. how you gone hoard information? and lately, Ric Bucher, especially, has been way off wit’ his info
Joe's place Joe speaking
July 8th, 2009
1:35 pm
Free agent center Zaza Pachulia has agreed to terms with the Hawks on a long-term deal, according to two sources familiar with the situation.
Pachulia, 25, spent the last four years with the Hawks on a $16 million deal. His new deal is believed to be for the same amount of years but with a significant raise, according to one of the sources familiar with the situation.
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Today is the first day free agents can sign contracts and trades can be completed.
Veteran point guard Mike Bibby agreed to terms on a new three-year, $18 million deal with the Hawks Tuesday.
terrell barron
July 8th, 2009
1:36 pm
Good news about Zaza, I guess? It all depens on the numbers. I still think we need another defensive presence. This signing would all but throw that happening out the window. And if we are going to trade someone, trade Mo, and Randawful Morris. Or possibly even throw in Bibby with a sign and trade. How bout Bibby, Mo and Morris to Portland for Prizbilla?
terrell barron
July 8th, 2009
1:38 pm
I hope it’s no more than 4 yr. 19 mill. 20 mill at the most.