Super Tuesday
The Hawks are the midst of trying to negotiate deals for both Marvin Williams (left) and Zaza Pachulia (center), two key free agents needed to help the Hawks keep pace in the constantly improving (and I mean by the day) Eastern Conference.
HAWKSVILLE - NBA free agents can put pen to paper Wednesday, consummating deals that have been in the works for days (and perhaps even longer for some).
The heavy lifting for the Hawks, however, comes a day early.
Hawks general manager Rick Sund is on his way to Washington D.C., where he will sit down with the representatives for three of the Hawks’ key free agents (Marvin Williams, Zaza Pachulia and Josh Childress) to hammer out the details of at least a couple of potential deals.
With Mike Bibby’s new deal needing only signatures, the Hawks can devote all the attention and resources necessary to the aforementioned players, and yes, that includes Childress (whose saga might not play out until after the July 15 deadline he has to either opt out of his contract with Olympiakos to return home and to the NBA. David Andersen, another player on the Hawks’ shopping list, has the same clause in his Spanish contract).
Folks keep asking what’s the latest on (All THE HAWKS’ SUMMER TARGETS)? So here’s a rundown, early on a day I’m dubbing Super Tuesday, of where things stand with the key players (and for a sobering look at just how crazy free agency is working this summer, check out this dagger from ESPN Insider and Alpharetta’s own John Hollinger):
MARVIN WILLIAMS: Using Charlie Villanueva’s deal in Detroit (5 years, $40 million-range) as your guide, things should get much easier to decipher in the curious case of Marvin Williams. With a qualifying offer of $7.5 million, we’re not talking about anything out of the ordinary her for a guy that’s proved to be a valuable starter the past three years. Finding another 6-9 starting small forward that fits the way he does on this team will not be easy, despite all of the suggestions around here to the contrary. Respected and prolific colleague Mark Bradley has suggested many times that if any of the Hawks’ remaining building blocks was expendable it was Marvin. But as I look across the free agent landscape, I cannot co-sign that theory. Not with the free agent moves/trades that have gone on in the Eastern Conference since draft night. Not with Hedo Turkoglu in Toronto now and Vince Carter in his old spot in Orlando. And not with Villanueva in Detroit and the addition of Rasheed Wallace in Boston. The length the Hawks used to their advantage across the frontline with Williams, Josh Smith and Al Horford is more critical than ever. Even in one of the many proposed sign-and-trade deals offered up around these parts, I don’t see the Hawks adding the piece that could take Marvin’s place on this roster (in fit, size and temperament … three crucial factors that Marvin brings that go largely unnoticed by the public). The Hawks have made clear their preference for Marvin to remain a part of the core of this team and I see no reason why that shouldn’t happen. I can’t see any scenario where he is not a part of this team in the future.
ZAZA PACHULIA: Much has been made in the past 72 hours about Zaza’s impending departure and his being replaced by Andersen, or a combination of players that includes the Australian big man. Slow down with that one. Sources tell me that while initially things didn’t look too good with the offer that was presented to him by the Hawks, the sides are working their way toward more agreeable terms (we’re talking slightly north of the $16 million over four years he signed for the last time he was a free agent but decidedly south of the $33 million over five years Marcin Gortat is expected to receive from Dallas). And in an Eastern Conference littered with bigs like Dwight Howard in Orlando, Shaquille O’Neal in Cleveland and now Wallace, Kevin Garnett and Kendrick Perkins in Boston (and that’s just on the teams that finished ahead of the Hawks in the standings last season), that’s a good thing. Because the Hawks can ill-afford to lose a player like Zaza. He’s the only real bruiser on the roster. He’ll set a hard pick and has shown he’s not afraid to mix it up with the likes of Garnett and Howard. And while I’m not heavy into the stats that seem to guide so many people’s opinions about players, I do believe that some numbers tell a far different story than what the heart and mind can. There were six regular season games and three playoff games during the 2008-2009 season where Zaza played 30-plus minutes. He averaged 9.8 points, 10.1 rebounds (and 4.1 offensive rebounds) in those games. That means when he was needed to play above and beyond his pay grade, Pachulia delivered.
JOSH CHILDRESS: Like Andersen, Childress would do better financially (at least in the next year or two) by returning to Greece for another season with Olympiakos. But if he’s intent on returning to the NBA this summer, and there are indications that he would indeed love to return, things could get tricky. Childress has already visited Milwaukee. And the Bucks could present him with an offer sheet and gamble that the Hawks might not match it (fat chance). The obvious solution for both sides would be a sign-and-trade deal (the starting salary for Childress wouldn’t even be the full mid-level of $5.6 million, though the total contract would be nearly $31 million over five years). The Bucks have all the necessary tools to make something like that happen. Whatever happens, the Hawks need to close the door on the Childress saga that began last summer during his first round of restricted free agency. His jersey number was given away last summer (to Mo Evans) in a way that should have signaled the end of his time with the Hawks to all of us. I know I’ve spent much of the last year plotting hypothetical scenarios in which he could return to the Hawks. I realize now, finally, it’s just not going to happen. So if there is any way to salvage a player (Bruce Bowen has been mentioned) and a possible second-round draft pick out of the deal, the Hawks could finally walk away from the entire mess with some measure of satisfaction.
Resolve two of the three issues above by July 15 and the Hawks will have made some serious headway into a summer that’s long from over. The roster still needs filling out. And that might not come until much later in the summer and possibly even training camp, where a hungry free agent pickup like Mario West won roster spots in each of the past two camps.
The Hawks will still have the resources to chase down another big man (or possibly two) to fill out the rotation, which is still in need of fortification. But the heavy lifting starts today in D.C.
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636 comments Add your comment
A Tribe Called Quest
July 7th, 2009
2:23 pm
Good deal on Bibby — paid him the max he should get.
But resigning our free agents does not elevate this team in the East. We have like 5 players under contract now and our owners will never go over the cap. So basically we only have a certain amount of money to spend and a bajillion roster spots to fill
Mitch
July 7th, 2009
2:31 pm
You know, my friends,………the Atlanta Hawks have come a long, long way………. Just think about this: 3 years ago we were a laughing stock…were getting ripped by the media for getting so-called hosed in the Phoenix deal…in J.J. we only had one legitimate scorer, etc.. etc….
Then, just a year and a half ago when the Hawks made the deal for Bibby…we still were very much on the outside looking in. And I must confess I was worried that Bibby would be totally bummed to be coming to Atlanta….let alone would I have ever dreamed that Bibby would actually want to stay in Atlanta after his contract expired (just as I never dreamed the Hawks could actually take Boston to 7 games in a thrilling series). And yet…today Bibby signs a very fair deal to stay.
Times have changed, my friends! The Hawks are now arguably one of the top ten teams in the NBA, and players want to play here! H’bout Marvin Williams’ dad yesterday saying that his son wants to stay in Atlanta and sign long-term. H’bout ZaZa saying repeatedly after the Cavs’ series that his heart is in Atlanta and he wants to stay. For all this, after years of futility and frustration, we have an exciting team we can all be proud of!
Mitch (MA)
A Thinking Fan
July 7th, 2009
2:33 pm
We need MW, JC & Za back to be competitive…
Johnny Hazeltine
July 7th, 2009
2:33 pm
I’m gonna give Rick Sund a vote of confidence for making sure the Hawks have a PG to run the offense next season, as opposed to the three SG rotation that would’ve destroyed the Hawks chances of being a playoff team next season. AND, he did it for the amount of money that everyone thought Bibby was worth.
Kudos Sund-Aye!
Sekou Smith
July 7th, 2009
2:41 pm
I’m trying to watch the MJ show, man. This is serious business. S. Wonder tore up the stage. John Mayer knocked it out as well.
Clyde
July 7th, 2009
2:41 pm
Bibby and Jamal Crawford ain’t gonna help us when Shaq and Dwight Howard come to town.
Cutler
July 7th, 2009
2:43 pm
MannyT, those are all good points. My main reasoning is that if all we can get for Childress is a 2nd round pick, we are better off signing him to a reasonable deal and utilizing Marvin in a sign and trade that would probably net us more assets for the future. In doing so, we can stay further under the cap so we can either A. resign Joe next year or. B. Make a run at one of the number of big time free agents that will be available.
JM
July 7th, 2009
2:48 pm
Stevie did his thing. Great send-off for MJ.
Anakin Joe
July 7th, 2009
2:49 pm
Kirk, Chill (and/or his agent) can try to play games but ultimately, dude can’t put on an NBA jersey without an agreement with Sund. So I doubt that they will go out of there way to tick him off. If the Bucks don’t offer up the desired player in a S&T, Sund can simply offer Chill the QO and assuming that Chill doesn’t accept it, Sund wishes him a safe flight back to Europe and we play the game again next summer. Of course, if Chill accepts the QO, then the ‘fro swallows hard and plays 82 more games for us before being set completely free (much like the Ben Gordon situation in Chicago). But again, Sund owns the trump card.
I agree that it does appear that we are upgrading Flip with Crawford and maybe Solo with a vet big (let’s say someone like Magloire or Foyle) and that seems to be the extent of the moves. Of course, that assumes that nothing changes when Smith’s BYC status expires in about 6 weeks and that we in fact bring back Zaza and Marvin. With the way contracts are going this summer, 3 years/$7.5M for Flip seems very doable. So will Crawford be 4 times the player as Flip?
TJ
July 7th, 2009
2:55 pm
Sekou, any comments on Ric Bucher’s comments on ESPN.com (that Bibby hasn’t agreed to anything)? I hope this isn’t another Griffey/Furcal type situation.
mountain_jim
July 7th, 2009
2:56 pm
I am watching the MJ show also, but still concerned about that ESPN report seemingly disagreeing about the (unsigned) Bibby agreement(?) you reported today, Sekou.
Sekou Smith
July 7th, 2009
2:59 pm
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4310653
Anakin Joe
July 7th, 2009
3:00 pm
Sekou, I’m taping it… but only for 4 hours. What’s your best guess, is it going to last until midnight tonight? My DVR stops recording at 5:00.
niremetal
July 7th, 2009
3:02 pm
Anakin,
Come on dude. What does that even mean, “will Crawford be 4 times the player as Flip?” He brings more to the table than Flip did, that’s for sure. But there’s no way to measure whether someone is “x times the player” as someone else simply by looking at their salaries. This isn’t baseball. Basketball is a real team sport, and the value of parts can’t be measured apart from the whole. You can only measure a player’s value in the context of how he benefits the team. And I think the Hawks are a better team with Crawford than with Flip. Asking how many times more is a nonsensical question.
Even if that question did make sense, you’re forgetting that Flip is not the only player whose salary was cut. Do I think that I would rather have Jamal Crawford than a combination of Flip, Speedy, and Acie? Why yes, I would.
Big Ray
July 7th, 2009
3:02 pm
No reason to complain about the re-signing of Bibby. It’s a good deal, and it shows the front office isn’t trying to go in a completely different direction (despite the sycophantic whining of some who thought it was).
I’d like to see Zaza return. I don’t want Garrett Siler, after checking him out a bit more. Smells like RandMo The Sequel to me. I’d love to have Brandon Bass or Big Baby on board, though I don’t know how feasible that is. I’m sure somebody will tell me…
Regardless of the depth, our offense will need some tweaks. We will have more options this year, so no need for Joe to face multiple defenders, for one thing. I don’t know how much more involved our frontcourt will be, but that will depend on a committment on the part of the players themselves to present a consistent scoring threat, and on the team as a whole to make a point of exploiting that where applicable.
As for defense and rebounding, can’t say much there other than committed, combined efforts on the part of our young froncourt are a must (did you hear that, JOSH SMITH). Since the summer’s not over, we’ll have to wait and see what kind of depth we’ll have for that.
Sekou Smith
July 7th, 2009
3:03 pm
I do my best not to make stuff up. And no comment TJ.
niremetal
July 7th, 2009
3:04 pm
Wow…more to laugh at from ESPN. Funny how they don’t mention that less than an hour ago, they had a story up on their site talking about how there wasn’t a deal yet.
Marvin Williams is a restricted free agent and may be Sund’s next priority. Crawford may fill the role of another restricted free agent, guard Flip Murray, who averaged 12.2 points as the top scorer off the bench.
Also…
Another top backup, center Zaza Pachulia, also is a restricted free agent.
Um. No. Zaza is unrestricted.
Melvin
July 7th, 2009
3:05 pm
I guess everyone is not impress by the Hawks re-siging Bibby.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Mike-Bibby-stays-in-Atlanta;_ylt=AsBSogprdHL8NZm4tiY46OC8vLYF?urn=nba,175109
So let me get this straight. Hawks are stupid/lazy/leaderless for re-signing a guy to a modest salary that lead them to two straight playoffs appearences after missing the playoffs for the 1ast decade. And The Kings were genius for signing this guy to a MAX contract when he never made an All-Star game. I think this is Hawks Hating at its best. Well maybe not as bad as ESPN reporting then denying the Bibby signing….
niremetal
July 7th, 2009
3:05 pm
Sorry…the paragraph starting with “Marvin” should have been italicized too.
chuckw/deadjournalist
July 7th, 2009
3:07 pm
i’ll probably be the last post on this page as well …
the minutes just aren’t there for flip and i’ll be damn sad to see him go. he had a confidence about him that he brought just about every night he was on the court.
i remember the opener against orlando last year – i recall being so excited i posted something about how the hawks would hit 47 if he could play like that for 60 games. he didn’t disappoint.
i come’n – who didn’t love to see big country interview him after a game?
TheHawksFan
July 7th, 2009
3:07 pm
Bibbs back on Board!!!!! With a 60% paycut. Best Move by Sund so FAR!!! Yeahhhhh Man. Lets get a BIG and Im GOOD!. GOOOO HAWKS!!!!
RIP MIKE!!
niremetal
July 7th, 2009
3:08 pm
Melvin,
Kelly Dwyer has always hated Bibby, the Hawks, and every player over the age of 30 not named Kobe. He provides some decent analyses of games, but he is one of those people who clearly makes up his mind about players and teams and then views everything through that lens. He doesn’t like Bibby, therefore any team that re-signs him is stupid. Kinda like with Woody and Acie. Or RodSamRod with Marvin. Or Clyde with Horford.
Big Ray
July 7th, 2009
3:08 pm
Nire,
Heh. You’re not a farm animal, so straw should not appeal to you. Nice reply though…
chuckw/deadjournalist
July 7th, 2009
3:09 pm
i need an copy editor.
TJ
July 7th, 2009
3:10 pm
Sekou is “dat dude!” Thanks for making Bristol look like idiots.
chuckw/deadjournalist
July 7th, 2009
3:11 pm
ugh! see!
Big Ray
July 7th, 2009
3:13 pm
Niremetal,
Yeah, you about have Kelly Dwyer pegged. I used to read what those guys had to say, and even watched a video or two of them talking. I’m not going to say much about them, because I can’t think of anything nice…
The Flash
July 7th, 2009
3:15 pm
The resigning of Bibby, which I did not think that the Hawks could get done for a reasonable price, whatever that means, provides this team something that others in the East, particularly Orlando, the Bulls, Detroit, and maybe even the Celtics don’t have–a history of cohessive play to build upon.
The Celtics think that they helped themselves by adding Sheed and maybe they have, but I have my doubts. Sheed, I believe, is a basketball genuis of sorts and a perfectionistic perfectionist. His best days were when Larry Brown, who out perfectionisted even Sheed, somehow soothed the guy’s soul, allowed him to play without so much judgment.
Now, the Celtics might think that they have enshrowded Sheed with the kind of great and talented players who will have a similarly soothing effect on Sheed, but I think that it is an even bet that inside where it really counts being around these guys will only inflame the perfectionist in him. If so, whether he acts out or not, he will only get in people’s way, not help them. Oh, he might have a great game now and then but he will detract from the ethos that lead the Celtics to a championship.
This experiment by the Celtics is like the Dog Whisperer. Put the confused one into the pack and they will help him make his head right. Maybe, but I think not.
This club here has an opportunity to continue to build on the ethos that has allowed them to get better and more potent in each of the last two seasons. The keys might be Bibby, JJ, and Crawford, and of course Woody. If Bibby and JJ find a way to allow Crawford to be Crawford when he is on the floor, and to be okay about not starting and perhaps also not finishing, that would be quite an accomplishment. The success of this team depends on it.
Melvin
July 7th, 2009
3:19 pm
Nire,
LMAO at your 3:08 post…
wordy
July 7th, 2009
3:20 pm
I used to lament Zaza, but he has become the heart of the playoff Hawks. He pissed off the Celtics off 2 years ago. He should be a Hawk for life.
mountain_jim
July 7th, 2009
3:23 pm
Thanks for that link showing ESPN coming around to your earlier reportage, Sekou!
A Tribe Called Quest
July 7th, 2009
3:28 pm
I like David Anderson, but don’t get carried away people…
When we won the #3 pick in May 2007, I immediately started watching Yi Jianlian clips for hours and hours. I thought the guy was the next Dirk Nowitzki (my boy), but he is trash right now. Don’t let these clips blow you away. Half the players these international guys play against are trash
Ariose
July 7th, 2009
3:30 pm
MannyT, LOL. I’d gladly take commission for streaming youtube footage of ATL nightlife for potental Hawks clients lol!
Precialte all of the Flip supporters out there showing him love. Finally i’m not the only one rooting for the “odd man out” lol.
You just don’t let 12.2 ppg walk away like that. Even if he doesn’t get much PT until mid march. I’ve seen Bibby, Crawford, and Joe whn they go cold. It’s not pretty, we are going to need someone who takes it o the rack and gets to the line like flip at some point.
You all keep talinkg about Crawford replacing Flip. As opposed to Crawford+Flip. IT makes no sense. I know we are talking about Woodson here but it’s VERY POSSIBLE to evenly distubte these minutes. Why should we sacrafice talent for Woodson’s Sake?
Remeber this is the last year of his deal. I’m sure if sund “politely” asks him to be better at time management, Woodson will “gladly” comply.
chaz
July 7th, 2009
3:31 pm
starters bibby 6M + jj 15M + marvin 7M + js 11M + al 4M = 43M
bench teague 1.5M + crawford 9M + mo 2.5M + zaza 5M + rmorris 1M + west 1M = 20M
assuming marvin and zaza resign for combined 12M, we’ll have 11 players and 63M under contract.
assuming no deal with childress, how much (if any) more will we be able to spend on a FA big, flip, solo, and/or d anderson? any ideas as to how much management is willing/able to spend on this team?
thanks
The Truth
July 7th, 2009
3:32 pm
Kudos to Mr. Sund for being a good steward of the Hawks business affairs (so far); as I wrote some blogs ago, I gave him a batting average of 40%. I will now revise that average to 60% indicating that there is still much work to do. In the larger scheme of things, he seems to be headed toward re-signing most of the Hawks FA’s. I notice that Sekou makes no mention of Flip as if to suggest that Flip is the odd man out. If that is true, then it would be the first big mistake he would have made. How do wipe away Flip’s contribution to the team accomplishment last year? One could argue that Flip was a major factor for the Hawks getting to the second round of the play-off. He was a game changer and difference maker. Somehow we have given Bibby all the credit for our second-round run because he was fully healthy and forgotten about Flip. After watching the Hawks season, somehow we have all gotten amnesia and Flip is now expendable. The acquisition of Crawford should not be the end of Flip because they can co-exist together. Instead of spelling JJ, Flip could spell Bibby. For those suggesting that Teague is ready today and be the primary backup for Bibby, you need to come out of dreamland. The PG position is the most difficult position to master. Teague by his own admission says he needs to work hard, develop and get stronger. He is sending a message that he is not ready yet. I have no doubt that he will there; I am pulling for him. But this should not be an either or proposition. If nothing else, we need Flip for depth.
A Tribe Called Quest
July 7th, 2009
3:33 pm
The Bibby signing is a good one. I love watching him make 3s and throw alleyoops to Josh Smith, but some of his weaknesses piss me off (you can say this about anyone).
We must find veteran bigs to round out this roster. Sign Marvin for a reasonable price, but we need more Chris Wilcox’s on this roster. Wilcox was a borderline all-star 2 years ago (I think).
No more Solomon Jones’. I want more Wilcox’s (no homo)
chuckw/deadjournalist
July 7th, 2009
3:35 pm
Save Flip!
A Tribe Called Quest
July 7th, 2009
3:36 pm
The Truth,
Jamal Crawford does everything Flip does. Flip is a serious ballhog, and I mean serious. Kobe and Iverson in their heyday cannot compete with Flip’s lack of a desire to pass. The guy never passes at the end of quarters and always takes awful shots.
Anyway, with my boy Craw in town, we don’t need Flip. We all love the Philly baller, but unless we get him for very cheap or something happens to one of our guards, he’s probably gone
Anakin Joe
July 7th, 2009
3:42 pm
nire, my issue is in contract value. But I understand that GMs must look at things in terms of funding buckets and not absolute dollars. So signing Flip would have come from the bucket that we need to use for a big man. Sund was able to maintain the 3-guard formula without withdrawing from his limited MLE bank account. I get that. Still, we have invested $20M in the next 2 years on a one-dimensional 6th man who shoots 41% from the field. I simply can’t find a way to celebrate that move.
chuckw/deadjournalist
July 7th, 2009
3:44 pm
Here’s another thought or two on why retaining Flip would be wise – assuming he’d sign a deal around 2/$5M or 2/$6M:
Injuries – Let us not forget that Bibby and Marvin missed significant time with injuries in the last few years. With Flip and Jamal the Hawks could better withstand injuries at the 1, 2 or 3. All it takes is one bad fall or rolled ankle to play havoc on a team’s depth.
2010 – No one is speaking on the retention of JJ next year. Why if he does bolt the team for greener hardwood? Flip with Jamal would compensate for his loss – with or without a replacement.
4th Quarters – Flip can get hot and bring a team back from 15 with 15 to go as well as any bench player in the league not named Ben Gordon.
chuckw/deadjournalist
July 7th, 2009
3:46 pm
That said, if it comes down to $3M for a big or Flip … the team has to go with a big.
Anakin Joe
July 7th, 2009
3:52 pm
Flash, I don’t follow the Celtics very closely, but what if KG isn’t showing signs of recuperating? The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if Rasheed chose Boston over the Spurs because KG may be relegated to a “Bill Walton as a Celtic” bench role next season. Not only would he seemingly be a starter in San Antonio, but he wouldn’t have to face more physically talented big men. He traded banging against Bynum and Nene 4-5 times for banging against Dwight & Shaq 4-5 times. Strange decision.
fudd21
July 7th, 2009
3:59 pm
Chaz,
At those dollars we will be over the salary cap. We then would have the full mid-level exception left which is around 5.6 mil and also the bi-annual exception which is around 1.9 mil. The mid-level can be given in full to 1 player or spread across to several players.
cp
July 7th, 2009
4:01 pm
KevinA we get it man. Everyday you try to find some way to trade Crawford or bash the guy. He is now a member of the Hawks so get used to it…..People I like Flip but we don’t need him. I would actually like to see Teague get some minutes and having Flip will only give Woodson more reason not to play the kid….And stop with the Amare talk. He is not a center, does not want to play center, does not play defense, is always hurt, and would have been a one year rental….If all the Bucks are offering is Bowen and a second rounder then Sund should laugh in their face and hang up the phone then call back and laugh some more. If we cant get Amir Johnson or a first rounder from them for Chills then tell Josh he is coming back to the A or have a nice trip back over seas….
Big Ray
July 7th, 2009
4:03 pm
Flash ,
An interesting and compelling point that was also brought up to me in an earlier conversation by Niremetal …
Big Ray
July 7th, 2009
4:03 pm
CP,
I agree with a lot of that.
bigdave
July 7th, 2009
4:14 pm
definitely Aminu over Siler…
Sautee
July 7th, 2009
4:15 pm
Astro Joe,
Flip got $1.5M last year and gave us 12.2 pts./gm.
JJ got $14.25M and gave us 21.4.
Was JJ 9 times better than Flip?
Dukester9
July 7th, 2009
4:17 pm
Sad sad sad i dont have a problem with Bibby but at a 5 million a year. Somewhere around 2 at the max. Its too many Tyronne Lues, Flip Murrays you plug at 2 mil. But it really dont matter until we get a Center we will be playing for 5-8 seeds so have fun with your useless chatter.
Melvin
July 7th, 2009
4:19 pm
Anakin Joe,
Are you saying that the Hawks should have kept Speedy/Acie along with re-signing Bibby and Flip and drafting Teague instead of acquring Crawford?
I know, that was a heck of a run-on sentence but you understand what I’m asking….