Buyer beware!

Oh yeah, first!!

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Are the Hawks looking at any free agent centers? Who are the best available on the market via trade or free agency?

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Samuel

July 5th, 2009
9:58 am
Doc,

My boy Rick is cool as a cucumber. Wouldn’t it be something if he were able to sign ZaZa and Marvin+ add an additional big that can play(McDycee,Sheed,Frye).

This team is shaping up to be pretty good. Still not sure we can move up a notch in the Eastern pecking order but definately can more solidify our hold on 4th spot. If we can hold the 4th spot a year or so then we can move up after 2010. If the Cavs don’t win a ring this year, LeBron is gone and Cleveland goes back to “LOTTO” status. Boston will be another year older and KG will be more banged up. They will slip.

2011 will be our year to move up into the top 2. Our core will only be better while other teams will fall off. that’s my long term plan and i’m sticking to it.

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Why is Sund not throwing money ‘Sheed? The man is a baller and we need a quality big. ASG must have 6 or 7 mil laying around….

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Bibby have to go i like his passionate on coming back to the hawks but he is a liability on defense, and we wonder why devin harris score 40points or why we have so many defensive break down we have to move on.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!

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D BO who was your best player of the bench last year?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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It depends, Flip was a bit inconsistent but he saved us in some games. I’m not bashing the guy, I’m just saying we got Flip + more in Crawford, no need to bring Flip back and add to the logjam we have at the guard positions.

To answer the question — my best bench player was Zaza because of his O-Rebounding ability and because he always provided some comedic releif every once in a while… ha.

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If we wont to contend for a title we need a big who command double team in the post some one like amar’e or bosh.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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D BO what wrong with having flip and crawford on the same team that just like saying why have lebron and kobe on the same team you can never not have enuff talent.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!

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Roddick just lost the match when he blew that 2nd set. Damn.

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Flip 6′3 Bibby 6′2 Flip want just 3mill Bibby wants at least 10mill
Flip is 29 and Bibby is 31 and the list goes on i say keep flip he will be cheaper and better on defense.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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Sekou what is the latest on Flip Murray’s situation, I have to believe that he is gone, assuming that we sign Mike bibby back right?

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The Hawks are moving at a slow pace but at this point, it’s better than not making any moves at all. If the speculation about Bibby coming back is right, is he coming off of the bench? Spot-up threes should be something that a bench player should provide, not at starters’ minutes. Bibby’s defensive liabilities (too small and slow or lack of desire to guard the other team’s point) put the Hawks in way too many defensive holes. This will also retard (once again a prized point guards’) development and create a log-jam at guard. You can’t make the trade for Crawford and not start him or play him starters’ minutes. I am interested to see what the Hawks are able to get for Childress who is emphatic about not playing here. Could the Hawks pull off a sign and trade for Childress or Marvin to get a power forward center type? If you re-sign Marvin, where does he fit in? This puzzle makes your job very easy Sekou, you only have to push out the questions (as every Hawks fan has these same questions) and get a lot of feedback. Thanks for keeping us in the loop Sekou.

GO HAWKS!!!!

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I believe 3 years at $20+ mill or so will be Sund’s first bad contract, if indeed that is what Bibby gets to sign. I can’t see paying him more than 12 for 2 years and really would have preferred replacing him with a cheaper Jack, thus shoring up the defense at PG and getting younger also. And Sund should be working on bigs before Bibby anyways, as they are in such short supply this season compared to guards.

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Sesou,

This is not meant to be sarcastic or derogatory…just a clarification.

PLEASE explain the wisdom of bringing Bibby back just so I, and others apparently, can become assuaged.

Not a good defender…not a great assists guy…so what is he???

HELP.

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NumberoneHawksfan, if we trade Marvin, who’s our sf? Mo Evans? Please! We better keep Marvin. He’ll be playing for a contract next year. Why trade him now? If we trade anybody, it better be Chills, Evans, or Randawful Morris.

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TERREL,

i love that Randawful Morris!! that’s hilarious

SOME SENSE,

I guess you just moved to Atlanta in March of this year. Bibby was the reason that we made the playoffs last year and this year. I guess you missed that. Also, the reason that we bring Bibby back is because THE COACH WANTS HIM BACK!! Woody only trusts certain people with HIS job and Bibby is one that he trusts.

“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends!”

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D-Bo, Flip shot better than JJ, Bibby and Crawford last year. I think this is why Acie lost his minutes. I would resign Flip. He is cheap insurance. Sund did a great job getting rid of Speedy’s contract.

Crawford/Bibby shoot a low FG percentage and have high salaries. I would rather see Chills signed. He shoots a much higher FG%, plays better defense and rebounds. JJ is the start of most of our offense possesions so Chills can also fill in at pg. Two years ago Chills was on the floor at the end of games.

Between Bibby and Crawford we have 23+ million to play with if Sund decides to go this route. Assuming this could work we could chase Odem or another big better than ZaZA.

If we keep Bibby for a much lower salary – no problem. Seems to me Crawford is the odd man out. Could a Crawford/ZaZa trade for a quality big work? If Crawford/Bibby are gone maybe we can have playing time for Teague to developement.

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samuel, too funny,. went back and saw the fire saban t shirt idea for clyde. if it doesnt sell in tuscaloosa i am sure it might find a market in about 11 other towns in the southeast. it might earn him another trip to rio.

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darrell starks – a few things I could think of real quick:

A person our coach will trust on the court
Veteran leadership at PG
Someone who knows how to set picks properly
Someone who the players will listen to when Woody is tongue-tied
A quality vet to teach our new PG how to play in this league
A nice trade piece when Teague is ready for more minutes

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Bibby and Crawford are the only players that are overpaid at this point.

A Drew Gooden for 2.5 mil seems like a great deal to replace Solo.

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Andy ain’t done yet…

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Time for the 5th set.

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[B]D-Bo, Flip shot better than JJ, Bibby and Crawford last year. I think this is why Acie lost his minutes. I would resign Flip. He is cheap insurance. Sund did a great job getting rid of Speedy’s contract. [/B]

That is true. But Crawford was called upon to shoot far more than Flip was, and same could be said for JJ – so it makes sense that Flip shot a better percentage. That doesn’t dismiss the fact that Bibby and Crawford are both better players than Flip. Bibby can run an offense, Flip cannot. Bibby can get his teammates involved, his chemistry with the guys on the court seems better, and he’s just the better player. Plus Mike Bibby put the Atlanta Hawks into the playoffs, he is a necessity. Crawford’s one of four players in NBA history to score 50+ points with 4 diff. teams, so it’s obvious who the better scorer is – that stat just speaks for itself. Last year was also by far Flip’s most productive year, I’m not so sure he could replicate that again next season.

But I’m not hating on Flip – once again, he kept us in some games for us last year but we just don’t need him when we have superior players on the roster. We can’t create a logjam, if we do in fact get Bibby signing the dotted line then we just don’t have a need for the Flipster.

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And I have to ask this..

Do you guys think Flip freaking Murray would have defended Tony Parker or Devin Harris better than Bibby? No. Not in a million years. 1) No one can stay in front of either of those guys. 2) Flip plays less defense than Bibby. Bibby isn’t a great one on one defender but he comes up with steals and as a team, the Hawks were good defensively. So..

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So, You are right we were good defensively last year, and Bibby didn’t have a D__N thing to do with it!

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D-Bo, I agree Bibby does come up with many steals. I remember seeing him do it. I thought that was a part of playing defense. Correct me if I’m wrong.

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Been here since 88 actually following the hawks. That was 2 seasons ago when Bibby “helped” us stumble into the playoffs. Where was his leadership in game seven against Boston when they kicked our teeth in after Bibby ran his mouth to the Boston fans? Where was his leadership when LeBron ran thru here like the wind? And as far as woody is concerned he has no job to trust anybody with. hes a lame duck. if the hawks decide to keep J Smoove around you and I know Woody is out of here.

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Everyone around Bibby plays better when he’s around. And he’s ALWAYS had that effect on his teams. That alone makes him worth keeping.

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NIRE how much would pay bibby?
GO HAWKS!!!!!

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darrell,

Up to $7.5M per year for 3 years or $8M for two. I’d push hard for $6.5-7M for 3 years.

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NIRE,

Great comment @ Darrell. Rasheed is being offered peanuts, Artest recieved peanuts, Marbury is being offered peanuts, Iverson will get peanuts. How in the heck does Darrell figure that we pay 10mil per for Bibby. Bibby will get no more than 6.5 mil for 3 years, which is peanuts CONSIDERING that he made 15mil per year the past 2 years.

“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends!”

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You have to be kidding me you mean to tell me you would pay bibby 7mill a year than to pay flip 3or 4mill year dam dam dam!!!!!!!!!!!
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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THE MOST INTERESTING HAWKS FAN IN THE WORLD you dont even watch basketball and thats what you said so how do you no who to keep?
GO HAWKS!!!!!

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I don’t think I would be opposed to getting Stoudemire, however his defense leaves a little to be desired. If we decided to let Bibby go in order to get a guy like Amare, who would be our PG? Flip Murray isn’t a starter, he isn’t a PG, and he certainly isn’t going to lead a team anywhere. PG is arguably the most important position on the court.. so what would we do then?

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So you guys are talking about starting the same line up.
STARTERS BIBBY, JOE, MARVIN, JOSH, HORFORD. 7TH SEED AT BEST.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!

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WHY THE HELL IS RICKY RUBIO IN A COMMERCIAL WITH TIGER WOODS, DEREK JETER, AND ROGER FEDERER?

Are you kiddin me?

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Anyone else here think that Federer would have 15 more aces than Roddick and Roddick still be in it?

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niremetal, I agree with you on Bibby making those around him better. I would like to see play against all the second units minutes. Bibby’s defense would not be exposed as much.

One of the reasons Bibby is not as effective as he should be is giving the ball to iso Joe instead of running the team offense. Is this a Woody thing in your opinion? Is this a JJ thing since he is our best player? I think Josh and Al need more touches. They both have improved every year they have played. I think Marvin and Chills go into that same catagory. This team could have a break out year with these young studs. Will Bibby/JJ/Crawford pass more than their history indicates?

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Hawk, I def. agree with you on some things. I don’t think we win a title with or without Bibby but we are a better team WITH Bibby than with Flip Murray. That’s what I’m arguing. Jeff Teague may be the answer for us in the future, but who knows how he’ll develop. As of right now he’s a combo guard. The fact is, we have very few choices when it comes to the PG position and the best option is clearly Mike Bibby and the front office/coaching staff sees that as well.

And the reason we are getting bad shots is because we have no half-court offense to speak of. I think that can be attributed to the coaching. Woodson wants to run but I don’t think that’s his style. With that said, I don’t think he has an offensive style, haha.. I think he’s similar to Mike Brown when it comes to being defensive oriented and lacking an offensive mind but the difference is Brown has LBJ. When we set up in the half-court we looked absolutely messed up and you can put that 100% on the coaching staff though.

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The signing of Bibby may signal the end of Flip in Atlanta. Bibby should get credit for steering us into the playoffs upon arrival, but it can also be stated that Flip got us into the playoffs last year. Without Flip we lose 6 – 8 games, then we don’t make the playoff this year. Flip led this team when Bibby went down and the prized AC Law still did not get off the bench.

We will need at least four guards on this team plus JJ. Why should we not stack the deck with Bibby, Flip, Crawford, & Teague.

All are capable of playing the point, all are scoring point guards and two of them can back up JJ at shooting guard. You could also play JJ at small forward, when small ball is required. Small ball team: Bibby, Crawford, JJ, Josh/Marvin & Horford.

Guys it does not appear we are going to get any bigger thru free agency. ZaZa is probably the best big man left and we should focus on signing him…SOON. I don’s understand the lovefest going on for McDyess, this guy is past his prime, besides he shoot more than he rebounds. We need someone in here who can boards & put backs.

Get Bibby deal done. Sign Flip, ZaZa, Marvin. If anything left in the till sign a big & bring Josh home. One thing I know Josh will provides is rebounding, gabage points, defense.

If we have to wait for next year on a true center, so be it.

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Preach Hawk Str8 talk. I see a couple people in here actually know NBA basketball. But I dare to argue that Bibby to is a SG pretending to be a pg around Joe, who runs this offense. Thats why it was anemic for the most part in the playoffs, we didn’t have a distributor to get guys the ball when & where they needed it, including Bibby.

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And I agree with you again. I think Jamal Crawford is a better scorer than Bibby, he can handle the ball better than Bibby, and right now he’s the better player. This all started with people saying Flip is needed more than Bibby, which is wrong.

We drafted Teague because he gives us slashing, and a guy that can be a big time spark off the bench. Something we needed more of since Acie refused to go to the basket.

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I say sign flip, marvin, zaza, solo, and sign wilcox.
GO HAWKS!!!!!

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Tribe,

No player has been signed yet by any team. And the only players that has committed are Charlie V, Ben, Artest, Ariza and Hedo. None of those players were on the Hawks radar.

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I told you all this:

All the Hawks do is wait…and wait…and wait…and wait until every player is gone

Good job Rick Sund. I hope you enjoy resigning your amazing hall-of-famer free agents while every other team gets better. Good job with your 120 year road to a champinoship with piss-awful goals each year

YOU ARE A !@#%$ING JOKE

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Will somebody win this match already???

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Teague is 6 ft tall, he’s playin the point in this league. How about a deal for Stoudemire, giving up Josh and Marvin? Dont sign Bibby. Go after Sessions. Milwaukee dont want nonbody. Starting Five. C stoudemire, PF Horford, Joe at the 3, fascilitating, Sessions and Crawford rounding it out. Mo Evans, Flip on a one year deal(he plays his best on them),Teague, Zaza, go after Birdman or bring in David Andersen, or somebody like Gadzuric from the Bucks to come off the bench?

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DARRELL STARKS,

Bibby is a proven commodity. He has an 11 year body of work to examine, disect, poke, etc. You saw what he did for the Kings. You saw what he did for the Hawks.

Flip, even though I like him, is a career journeyman. Before the Hawks signed him last year, he was on his way to play basketball in Russia, I think. No one is going to hand the keys to a franchise to a career journeyman. Bibby, however, will get the keys.

Give Bibby the keys, if he wrecks, no one will blame you. Give Flip the keys, and he wrecks it, you will be the laughing stock of the league.

“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends!”

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real#1 …. parker torched a very unenthusiastic, flat TEAM that night expecting a mail in. the WHOLE TEAM WAS FLAT as a pan cake as kurt thomas made mince meat of horford pushing him around like a beach ball in a soccer match. that was the worst game of the year for the hawks in what they were playing for and what they were wanting to state about themselves. in my mind it was worse than the blow out at the hands of the nets earlier in the season when the nets thought they were playing for something. please drop that comparison as if every guard would do it. that is also where crawford will help as he presents size and quickness to match up with some of those guys as soon as he learns woody’s system of defense which the guy can coach. no, i dont think bibby is a good one on one d man nor siggest it, only he does play well in a team defensive scheme. funny folks forget how poorly jj played defense when it came to blocks and steals last year, what was it 30 games without one steal of was it blocks … pitiful.

nire, i know the hawks have quibbled before so i wouldt put it past them but i would make the deal if it fell 1 mil up from where you want it. i agree with your assessment as well of what i would offer. remember, though i know you choose not to even consider it without any more knowledge than i have from sekou, chills would still be here except for that type of thinking last year. maybe in a down economy we can sit back. only bibby and his folks might be using their “interest” in the hawks and the hawks low bid to make other teams that want him and need him more than us to ante up to see us end up the bridesmaid again at the alter. money talks bro and bibby would help the 6ers as josh would have more than brand last year. it was our good their bad on that one.

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No Mike Bibby no postseason? I dont know about that. We were playing pretty good with Anthony freakin Johnson at point. Bibby is o.k., but come on, there are a plethora of other pg’s who coold’ve led us to the playoffs. It’s not like we were that far away.

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DOC i agree with you im not putting it all on bibby every body have to step up to including joe joe the machine.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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TB/KevinA/Wabe/Melvin/Sekou,

We should start a pool about how many games this one goes…

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Nire,

They may run out of TV time before this match is over… Classic

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“Tribe,

No player has been signed yet by any team. And the only players that has committed are Charlie V, Ben, Artest, Ariza and Hedo. None of those players were on the Hawks radar.”

So who is on our radar besides are own hall of fame free agents? I swear to God that Sund has not called one free agent besides some piss willy former Seattle Supersonic or our 3 and the amazing Marvin Williams who is a career underachieving stiff

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Man…amazing match.

Here’s a toast to Federer AND Roddick.

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Anybody know the record for the longest game in a final?

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Last man standing, Federer. What a way to make history….

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Exactly Mitch.. thank you.

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Josh Smith stepped up in the playoffs. Bibby did exactly what he did in the regular season, shoot 3’s and get burned. This guy couldn’t check an empty box with a number 2 pencil. Check Joe’s numbers since the bibby trade, scoring down, assists and turnovers up, that means he’s handling the ball most of the time. We’ll do just fine with Crawford and possibly Sessions as I mentioned earlier.

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MIKE BIBBY IS NOT WORTH 3 YRS. 20 MILL$ AT THIS POINT OF HIS CAREER. PERIOD! END OF STORY!

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We got it crunk Sekou, talk to ya peeps!

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How about 2 yrs 10 mill for Bibby? Thats souns about right. Take it or leave it. What if we struggle, and Woody is fired? Would the new Coach still want to go with an aging pg, who is basically the Coach himself or would he just rather play the up and coming Jeff Teague and Coach him up? My point is, Woody NEEDS Bibby because he cant Coach. With a better Coach we wouldn’t need Bibby.

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2009 ATLANTA HAWKS
STARTER JAMAL, JOE, MARVIN, JOSH, AMAR’E OR BOSH
BENCH TEAGUE, FLIP, MOE, WILCOX, ZAZA
RESERVE WEST, SOLO.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

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And I dont plan on Woody being here too much longer.

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real #1, didnt say he shouldnt have done it but if horford allowed himself to be pushed around and anyone could have decked parker at any time then the whole team is soft. that is my point and you seemed to miss it. it wasnt just bibby nor is it every game. we all know his virtues and liabilities, just being fair and it you go back i said we might have done better overall if he hadnt come in and a different style of pooint were here. just the same he does some things extremely well including get in woody’s face when he needs it. heh heh heh we need at least one person able to do it on this team. he might be worth his wieght in gold, wait i guess they are paying him more than that just dont know the going rate of gold is.

it is all good. oh real, do you have a cousin who lives near by that is a marvin hater named rod?

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terrell, i guess we just said the same thing about just a little different and you might like the way i said what i did. i’d take 6 and three but it will be more like 7 and 3 is my guess unless someone swoops in and offers 8 and three.

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No I don’t but since we are on the subject of Marvin let me vent! If we’d picked Paul or Williams or even Roy, or even Stuckey. we wouldn’t even be talkin about Bibby. Lets all get together, find billy Knight,and whoop his @$$

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So the Sixers offered Bibby a 1 yr. deal?

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Andre Miller is 2 yrs older than Mike Bibby? Wow! I would think it was the other way around. And yes I’m looking around on Pro Sports Daily. I really need to seek help. Cant get enough Sportstalk. lol!!

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Obrien, how about the 2nd year being a team option. lol!!

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But come on Sekou, Zaza and Mcdyess? Have u seen what the top three teams have done already, and Orl or Bos is going to add Rasheed. How about Washington and Detroit, not to mention Chicago? If we want to keep up I think we have to make a splash or we could be on the outside looking in. Bibby aint that splash. We were lucky to get to the 2nd round last year with the way we played against Miami. We have got to get better just to stay afloat. Bringing back this same roster would be a disaster in an ever improving conference.

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Sekou,

If Flip is not re-signed or even if he is, is their a concern about a TRUE back-up point to Bibby?? (I am assuming Bibby is staying)

Thanks.

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sekou u are dead on about the bloggers. the hawks were good last season they just need to upgrade the bench and settle their free agents and hit the workouts this summer hard. i am really hyped up about this team for next season. resign bibby and zaza please.

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And UGA, since when did Bibby become a TRUE pg? He plays more sg than pg.

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Great post @ 2:33, Sekou! It is fairly obvious that ’some’ of the bloggers don’t understand the ‘business’ side to basketball. Just because Rick Sund isn’t making public statements regarding what he is doing or who he is speaking to, it does not mean conversations are not going on. I’m sure he is constantly checking on the availability of certain players and listening to other teams inquire about his. ASG does not have an unlimited amount of money to spend and what they do spend should be done wisely. How a player ‘fits’ with the current core and coaching system is as important as the skills a player would bring to the team.

I see free agency like a chess match, you are always looking at several moves ahead, for both you team and all the others. They have a pretty good core that needs some tweaking. I’ll never forget back in the 80’s when the Hawks brought in Moses Malone and Reggie Theus for Tree Rollins and Randy Wittman. Everyone thought they were the ‘missing pieces’ however we found out they were not a good fit for the team. Chemistry is often overlooked as a key ingredient when assembling a team. The moves made by Sund last year resulted in a 10 win increase. As with many fans are doing with TD of the Falcons, Sund deserves some props for both the personnel moves he made and did not make over the season.

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Mr. Smith, THANK YOU SO MUCH for that last post. I can see the frustration in your words. It’s aggravating the way that some people think on here…Bring in Amare…Bring in Bosh (I’ve seen on here to play CENTER—are you kidding me?) This team won 47 games last year and made it to the conference semis. I feel like this team is moving forward, but need to add those pieces to the bench to give a LOT more depth.

Again, I hope we all can critique the moves AFTER free agency has ended…but I guess we all need to put our “GM For the Day” hats on and have fun.

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Like TB said since when have bibby been a point guard ,i dont no but i do no this your point guard penetrate and create easy basket for your bigs and we didnt see that from bibby, we had one in acie but thats another story on down the road.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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Like i said the eastern conf. was a water down conference last year with all of the teams injuries but this year will be a different story, the hawks better upgrade or its going to be a long season.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!

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Darrell,

That was not even a coherent thought. Form a complete sentence.

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Bibby is the best point we’ve had here since Mookie and he’s more of a true point than you might think.

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OH nire now your a school teacher man dont come with this incorrect sentence and stuff tell me your starting five and your bench player since you no basketball.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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As many people on here have already mentioned on this blog, Bibby plays more SG for Mike Woodson and JJ plays the PG position most of the time. I guess you could say in Woodson’s offense, we have two combo guards. They are interchangeable. That’s how Woodson likes to play. That’s really not a bad plan, I just believe that both guards have to be able to shoot the three (which they can), but also have to be able to drive to be able to set up other players in a offense with two combo guards. This is Bibby’s weakness. I like Bibby as a SG, but not as a point. If you are weak @ penitrating, then you better have a strong post game. We don’t. The question that I keep running through my mind is this:

Would the Hawks be better with JJ and Crawford on the court or JJ and Bibby? None of us know this answer of course because we just traded for Crawford and have not seen him play with JJ. I am concerned about defense with Bibby and JJ just like most of you are. Will our defense be any better with Crawford and JJ? I hope so, but who knows. I just can’t believe we have signed a combo guard for over 9M to not be a starter! But, if we sign Bibby, that’s going to be the case.

I don’t think we will be any better than a #4 seed in the East with the same starting lineup as this year. I agree that we must improve our bench, but Woodson does not use the bench for a lot of minutes with the exception of Zaza and Flip. That’s another reason that we must improve the bench so he has to play them more. Our starters were wore out by the time we got to the playoffs this year. A better bench, if used during the regular season, would keep the starters fresh for the playoffs. Then you can shorten your bench if necessary @ playoff time.

I guess, what I am saying is that I would not re-sign Bibby and go after Sessions. I know that’s a big gamble. I guess that if I were coaching this team and I knew the chemistry better, I might feel different about Bibby.

I think the interesting part of developing this team for next year is going to be what we end up doing with the re-signs and the PF & C positions. What Chills decides to do will also determine a lot of other decisions as well. If Chills goes back to Europe, then we must re-sign Zaza. The recent signing of other bigs will help us afford him. I believe that Andersen will be traded since he will take up part of our MLE. I could see us trading some combination of Evans, Andersen, and Morris for another big to a team that needs some salary relief. Maybe that’s how we get Varejao, Millsaps, or Fry.

I have said many times that if the Hawks are going to make a serious run, they will have to trade either Marvin or Josh. They are quality players that can help the Hawks get a huge upgrade @ PF or C.

July 8th will start to bring some answers, as well as July 15th!

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I apologize in advance if this sounds like a stupid question,

but was that 22 million dollar figure that was being thrown around yesterday accurate? no right? i mean if they haven’t even come to terms yet money figures can’t be accurate yet – can they?

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Glad we apparently have no intention of playing defense next year.

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Jamal Crawford didn’t play a lick of defense for Golden State but ya know, that’s just how they did things over there. I get the feeling he wants to win and he’ll do what it takes. Woody is a defense minded coach and I think he’ll be decent on defense for us, at least better than he was for GS.

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Ray,like Sekou, Tennis is the family sport(don’t know why). I think I got my basketball Jones from my mothers side of the family.

Was decent at if for a while, but found my way onto the hardwood. Got a couple D-1 tennis cousins though.

…..wait, wait, wait SO YOU JUST MISSSED ALL OF THAT AWESOME/EPIC MATHCH??? Beats caniblogging any day for sure.

Somebody wake me up on july 8th lol….

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We won 47 games? When? How come no one told some of these bloggers?

By re-signing Bibby, it gives us all of our MLE to go out and sign 1-2 veteran bigs. I think the decision comes down to would you rather have Bibby and someone like Chris Wilcox on the bench or would you rather have Jarrett Jack and someone like Robert Swift on he bench. Or the third option is to start Jamal at PG (and get a Wilcox-type). Personally, I agree with Sund’s choice, go with Bibby and hopefully add a veteran big who will clean the glass and play energetic defense. Once Bibby is on board, it is time for Sund to address the other end of the floor.

Where does Mo fit in once Bibby is on board? Seems like he and Teague may be battling for floor time.

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LAST!!!!!!!!!!!

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nire – Historically those numbers are correct. I believe in this economic environment the numbers will go down. At least I’m hoping so as a Hawks fan!

Hoops – be careful talking about proper bench & starters minutes utilization. Some on this blog can find no issue with how Woody handles both. Unless your an All-Star you shouldn’t be counted on for quality minutes. If you are a starter you should be able to go 40 per night without suffering fatigue or injury.

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Flip also likes to dunk on PPL…..

Hehehehe….

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Isn’t it also good advice to be careful about mantras like not trading for players whose teams didn’t reach the playoffs in the previous year? Did Minnesota make it to the playoffs the season before the Celtics traded for Garnett? Did the Grizzles make the playoffs the season before the Lakers traded for Gasol? It seems to me that what’s more important than a consideration of the trading partner’s previous success is the player to be obtained and what you must give up to get him. McHale’s ‘gift’ notwithstanding, the Celtics don’t pursue Garnett if Ainge is sold on the wayward notion that you don’t pursue elite players from teams that didn’t make the playoffs the previous year. And that logic probably means the Celts continue to ‘build around’ the big kid now in Minnesota and don’t even come close to a championship for many years to come. Neither does Dr. Buss pursue Gasol if Kupchak is shackled by that notion. Organizations seriously pursuing a championship with a sense of urgency look at all options – unbridled by unproven mantras – that have a reasonable chance of putting them in a position to compete for that championship. Don’t overpay, but don’t overlook either.

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Of world the unite idiots!

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Newkid,

Actually, that is a damn good point. I think it’s about fit as well as how much you’re giving up to get the guy. I don’t believe in labeling an individual player as a “winner” or “non-winner” solely based on whether that person has played on winning teams. We clamor to re-sign Zaza, but how many times was he on a winning team? He came from Milwaukee for crying out loud. And even HERE, we’ve only had one winning season. It’s an incomplete logic at best.

What matters is what the player can do for your team, along with what you have to give to get him.

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SEKOU: Any word on Marvin? Any interest in Theo Ratlift?

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Darks,

U crazy, yo!

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Hey Real who ya tradin for?

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Hoopsworld is linking Millsaps to the Hawks based on what happens to Marvin. Does anyone want to speculate on those possibilities?

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My bad blast i miss spell your name but is you and nire cousin or some type of foundation boards of director/or hands on manual therapy.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!

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LOL @ Ray hehehe…… the “closet” Tennis Fan.

That “Anymore” gave you away hah!

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Sheed is opening his options… Come to the “A” Sheed… told ya he enjoys being an underdog… he’s no front runner…

“Wallace, despite having two fantastic offers from very realistic championship contenders, has widened his horizons to include the Charlotte Bobcats
, who will likely get Wallace’s ear if for no other reason than he’s a former Tar Heel who owns a home in North Carolina.”

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=13187

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You know what sucks?

Knowing that our team isn’t going to be good enough to truly contend for or win a championship. I was hoping that the next time our team was any good would be the time where it would really have a shot at winning the whole ball of wax. We’re back to the “Smitty From The City!” days of the mid-to-late ’90s. I’ve seen this story before. It’s “Hey, maybe we can somehow beat (insert much better team’s name here) in the second round and make the Eastern Conference Finals!” time for all of us.

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Sekou, Sekou, Sekou, Sekou!

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Keep the fight going Cynthia McKinney!

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about to get on this madden check yall later. Say somethin SEKOU!

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I mean we won the games that Josh Smith played good in*, not played in.

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Stoneman I agree, but that is where the problem is going to come in… Marvin is not good enough at SF to be our starter, Smoove is more like a PF than a SF even though I would love him to be able to play SF eventually. Horford in my mind is a PF no doubt, but I heard Sund say that he think Horford is a Center which is the first time I’ve disagreed with him so far. So the problem is we got 2 REALLY talented PF’s no Center and no real SF besides Marvin.

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does anyone agree with me on trying to get “the birdman” chris andersen to play in atlanta. he would be a solid pick up for the hawks, a move that true hawks fans would enjoy.

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Mitch,

Sund is having to navigate around the drafting of BK! It may take longer than we want to over come those fumblings!!!

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Clyde/Stoneman,

Who do you suggest?

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It’s all well and good to say that Al is a natural PF. But name me a better center we could get. Hell, name me 10 better centers in the whole damn league.

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Question, how can anyone with basic basketball knowledge make an argument to keep Flip IN LIEU OF Bibby? Sure, you can make the argument to keep him but IN LIEU OF Bibby? Huh? Flip can “run the point” but he is not, I repeat, he is not a point guard. I submit one stat, of all the guards on the team not named Mario West, Flip had the lowest A/TO ratio (1.23 to Bibby’s 3.06). I would respect an argument for Teague at point over Bibby than I would the nonsense of using Flip to “fill Bibby’s shoes.” Flip is a great 6th man, but a point guard (much less a starting point guard) he is NOT!

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Boi’s not trying to be negative, But the Bird Man Chris Anderson is recovering from a coke problem. Atl, Mia, NY, and L.A. are all city’s he should avoid.

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You have a point niremetal, Al is good and I want him to stay on the team, I just feel he is undersized and to find a better Center would be hard. I could be wrong though Ben Wallace won a ring as a 6 ft 9 in. Center and Al is taller than him. So if Al is our Center and Josh is our PF then we need a legit SF. Lamar Odom is still out there, even though he is probably going to return to LA. Everything else looks good and we need to make our bench deeper in the post area, because Teague, J-Craw and Mo got the guard are on lock.

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Nire,

What! You forgot about Erick “The Shaq Stopper” Dampier!!! I noticed you didn’t include your boy Biedrins although I would take AL over him. However, I could see an argument for NeNe..

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Newkid,
You made a valid point about trading for superstars but one thing you must consider is the receiving teams previous performance prior to the trade. I don’t recall Boston or LA making it to the 2nd round of the playoffs prior to those trades. As for Cleveland, they got Shaq for peanuts and Orlando feared losing Hedo prior to trading for Vince but the jury is still out on those trades. I recall Phx regressing once they traded for the soon to be Hall of Famer Shaq. I think the Hawks should continue to be patient and allow its core players (JJ, Josh, AL and Marvin) to mature together before disassembling them.

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Hey Sekou, I know we are heavy into the free agency period, but if the Hawks do try to put together a trade for a big, is there a particular time frame when this would be more likely to occur? And, do you have an opinion on what we would have to give up to aquire somebody like Camby – who would be on the last year of his contract?

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Glad we have Bibby back in the fold, so we should be solid in the backcourt (sorry Flip). But as often mentioned, we have to get on it with the big man. I really hope we are close to resigning Zaza, cause soon as Sheed and maybe one other big are taken there will be a frenzy over getting Zaza. Not as worried bout Marvin, cause we have the right to match any offer, and we know everyone is cash strapped. Even if someone got crazy, we could potentially get something done through a sign and trade. If we can get those guys back, I’d be satisfied with one more big, potentially Channing Frye or Chris Wilcox. All the talk about what’s going to happen with Chills and Anderson is already a pain in the a_s! Chills is not coming back, but hopefully at worst we can get a draft pick for him. We could use Andersons’ size even though he’s another defensive liability. At this point we are doing well, compared to team overpaying for the likes of Turkoglu, Ariza, and David Lee.

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Acquiring someone like Camby would be awesome, He would fit perfect. However, Gabron I do not agree with kicking Za. Za brought heart and intensity to our team when we lacked energy. He got 2 double doubles in the 1st round of the playoffs of the bench. We might not have a choice though because other teams now know how good he can be.

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Mike Bibby can’t play defense. He only hits his jump shots at a decent percentage every other game. So, why do the Hawks need him(?). They will never get beyond the first round in the playoffs with him being the starting point guard. (NOTE: the Hawks need to sign Flip Murray; then, sign another veteran for around the same money — get two for the same money that they would pay Bibby) The Hawks need to spend their money on someone that can score, assist, steal, and defend. Bibby is just too slow. However, they could keep him as a bench player, if he will accept the veterans minimum salary for next year. In essence, he shouldn’t be one of their top 9 players.

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Sekou, Have Ya heard anything about Chills visit to Cheesehead country? Have they called the Hawks about a sign and trade?

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LOL. C Moe, your looking for Chris Paul?

There’s a clear and obvious reason Flip Murray can’t stay on an NBA roster and he’s been a starter only one season in his career. If you honestly think the Hawks could make it further with Flip running the show, you are incredibly delusional.

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What’s the rotation if Bibby signs back with the team??? You can’t sit Crawford and his 20 pts per game on the bench, you’re losing me Rick Sund. Maybe he’s setting up a sign and trade with another team.

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Don’t think Ben Gordon minutes actually, lol. Ben Gordon role in about 26 minutes maybe.

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Rasheed has apparently agreed to a contract with the Celtics. I guess that’s true.. but it should be good to see all the Boston fans love the move at first, then once they see how much of a ‘chucker’ he has become, they’ll hate him.

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Clyde,

You say this:

“All this talk and the HAWKS will be right back with that same old team with a little more scoring involved. THE HAWKS NEED A TRUE CENTER!!! AL HORFORD IS A POWER FORWARD!!!!!!! GO GET A CENTER.”

-Stoneman

Sekou said this in his June 21st article on past Hawks drafts: “Horford was an instant hit and is one of the league’s top centers. ”

He also said this: “The verdict: Horford’s a keeper and franchise cornerstone “

I tend to believe the man who is closer than ANY of us bloggers to the team and to the league.

A Tribe Called Quest,

You (unbelievably) said this at 12:50 today:

“And this talk that Bosh/Amare cannot play defense is irrelevant. They are both not much worse, if at all, then Dwight or Garnett at this point. ”

Are you SERIOUS? Not much worse, if at all than the reigning Defensive Player of the year? Tell me ATCQ, where did STAT and Bosh end up in the voting?

Oh, they didn’t get ANY?

And do you REALLY think either of them is “not much worse, if at all” than KG?

By the way KG has been All-Defensive team NINE FREAKIN’ TIMES in his career! How many for Bosh and AS?

Do NOT insult KG’s amazing defensive career with a flip comparison that means nothing.

Keep it real.

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I didn’t get to see any of that Roddick-Federer… hope they replay that on ESPN at some point. Sounds like a hell of a match. -1 to Ray for hating on tennis too…

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Davenpoop,

I read somewhere that the NBA was considering allowing ads on uniforms sometime in the future. I hope that never happens! That is so “bush league”!

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Sheed to Boston, per ESPN. Official.

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“If Boston signs Sheed, Big Baby will be easier to get because Boston will not have their MLE to sign him with. Re-sign Bibby, Marvin, Zaza and sign Big Baby. That would be a huge off season for the Hawks! Especially after already getting Crawford and Teague!”

You’re right — either Big Baby Davis or Leon Powe should be there for the taking, and I think especially Powe won’t cost too much. Both have produced off the bench even in big games in the NBA and both would be pretty good acquisitions to round out the bench, even if they don’t solve the “true center” issue.

I would love to get the Birdman, but considering that shot-blockers always get overpaid, I’d be surprised if he fell into the Hawks’ price range.

Put me in the same boat as Sekou and everyone else who agrees with focusing on re-signing 3 of 4 free agents (Flip being the guy the Hawks can afford to let go). The most likely way to improve this team during the free agency period will be to either sign a cheap free agent like Powe or to use Childress’ rights in a sign-and-trade, and neither one is going to get a player like Amare or Bosh in return. The Hawks have already made their big acquisition for this offseason.

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SEKOU, I JUST GOOGLED DAVID ANDERSONS NAME AND ITS RUMORS HE IS COMING BACK, IS IT TRUE?

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NO BS DAVID ANDERSON HAS SIGNED WITH THE HAWKS ACCORDING TO A SPANISH NEWSPAPER

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Mookie,

I reported this yesterday! Look @ the article again. The signing may not be finalized yet. Look for a S&T.

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Okay guys we are going to have choices here. What BIG had you rather sign:
Big Baby
Varejao
Frye
Someone else

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http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2009/7/4/938201/david-andersen-signing-with-the

How can it be a sign and trade when the Hawks own his rights?

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Nire,

I may be a homer but outside of Dwight and a healthy Yao, I would rather go to battle with Horford in the middle. Yall can keep the rest. Just my opinion.

If we are going to bring Andersen over, then our next move need to be to resign ZaZa, Bibby and Marvin. I would jump for joy if we could bring Chills back into the fold then (try to) rid ourselves of Mo Evans..

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HEY MOOKIE that article just says he could leave Europe for the nba and he could sign with the Hawks to replace Zaza if he leaves. This was reported while Sekou was on vaca by Mark Bradley when he heard it at the Jamal Crawford PC. I think if Anderson were signed SEKOU WOULD KNOW IT BEFORE SOME SPANISH NEWSPAPER SO YOU DONT HAVE HIS JOB JUST YET, LOL.

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Sautee what Sekou says and what I see out on the basketball court are two different things.

And people keep asking me what should we do about our problems on our frontline. First of all getting Jamal Crawford and signing Bibby sure as hell ain’t the answer.

Second I ain’t gettin’ paid to figure out what the Hawks should do. Just like I said we’ve had this problem for 5 years and going on the 6th we still have the problem. The person who makes all the money should figure it out.

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Here’s another translation, this time reading the subtext of Clyde’s post:

“Ok, deep down I realize that there is no feasible way to get a better center than Al Horford. But I’m too damned stubborn to admit it.

Oh, and Sean Williams is da bomb.

ROLL TIDE!”

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niremetal,

Wait and see! After we sign Zaza, we will sign Varejao, Big Baby, or Frye with our MLE if we don’t sign Flip, which I don’t see happening. I’m saying that we re-sign Bibby, Marvin, and Zaza along the way and add one of those three FA’s.

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nire i will take horford over shaq, nene, camby, amar’e, and chandler and maybe yao.andrew bogut? i’d say now there is a toss up now that horford has the edge thanks to ability to stay healthy. and i wouldnt trade horford for no one. THANKS FOR YOUR ANALOGY ON BASKETBALL I REALLY THINK YOUR THE BEST.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!

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If the speculation about Bibby coming back is right, is he coming off of the bench? Spot-up threes should be something that a bench player should provide, not at starters’ minutes. Bibby’s defensive liabilities (too small and slow or lack of desire to guard the other team’s point) put the Hawks in way too many defensive holes. This will also retard (once again a prized point guards’) development and create a log-jam at guard.

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I agree with most of the people here who think Bibby, Zaza, and Marvin MUST be re-signed. Also bringing Andersen over is another must! If we are going to settle for Zaza’s replacement to be Andersen, we will not improve our frontcourt. We must re-sign Zaza AND get Andersen.

Bibby/Teague
Johnson/Crawford/West
Williams/Evans
Smith
Horford/Pachulia/Andersen/Morris

Resign Bibby, Pachulia, Marvin, D. Andersen, and West!

As for McDyess, I’d love to have him also, but I hear he is not interested. But I do not have the media’s ears like you do, Sekou. So please keep us update on that!

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Libid21, is it a fact that McDyess is not interested in playing in the ATL? If that is so then there may be things that make you go hmmmmmm!!

1) Is it that both McDyess and Rasheed do not want to play in Atlanta or is it that they do not want to play with the Hawks?
2) Didn’t both of these guys play in Detroit while Woodson was there? If so are we to read anything in the fact that they both want to play elsewhere?

Just saying!!!

Go Hawks!!!

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Point Guard and Center are the two most difficult positions to fill. Over half the teams don’t have a legit starting center and elite centers you can count on one hand. So no Horford is not a true center, but he does a better job than most and there is no one of significance we can trade for, unless you wanna wait 3 or 4 yrs to see how they develop. Secondly, WE COULD’VE HAD CHRIS PAUL, DERON WILLIAMS!!! Yes, we could have had these guys, but we don’t. That was Billy Knight’s fault and we he no longer works here. We do have Bibby and no he doesn’t play defense, but this team is better when he is on the floor. Is he worth 20+ mil, probably not, but he made double that last year and do we even want to remind ourselves what it was like before he got here? Let’s be real, people!

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Any chance the Hawks will pick up Glenn Baby Davis who the Celtics are not resigning?

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“It would have been nice, though, seeing him in red, white and blue one more time.”

Sekou, we were still in the good ole’ red, gold, black (which i miss)… we didnt change our schemes until the 07-08′ season… and to think Sheed put up 30 in his only ATL appearance…
my fav hawk jersey of all time were the 95-99′ digs, with the big ignorant hawk across it… it inspired my tattoo, a hawk, stretching from shoulder to shoulder…

at this point… im like forget the free agents… though Amare wants to come here, its almost as if the proven vets cant get the bad taste out of their mouths of Hawks failures of past… lets re-sign our boys.. and if we can get one more solid big.. id be pleased.. maybe we get that for Chilly..?

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“I think it’s telling that teams went after Gortat over Zaza (when I think a strong argument could be made that Zaza is indeed the better player. We’ve at least seen Zaza in a starting role before, and he performed rather well. Gortat is an absolute gamble).”

There’s a simple explanation for that — Gortat blocks shots, Zaza doesn’t. Shot blockers are one of those commodities who always get paid, sometimes overpaid, in the NBA. Look at the kind of deals players like Keon Clark and Adonal Foyle have signed in their careers, even though shot blocking is their only real skill. Zaza is clearly the more accomplished player, and Gortat is clearly a gamble, but 6′10″ non-shot blocking physical presences are a lot more common than 7-foot shot blockers.

This is also why I think the Birdman is going to end up being out of the Hawks’ price range. If someone like Gortat can get paid $25 million, the Birdman has to feel like he can get paid at least that much.

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Enter your comments here

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Najeh,

Birdman is probably cursing the fact that he’s a free agent this summer instead of next. You’re right in that guys like him command a lot on the FA market, because “blocks” are the only stat that deals with post defense (things that positioning and not committing needless fouls are even more important, I think, but those are immeasurable). In a normal year, Andersen would probably pull down a 4-5 year deal with at least $6.5M per. Right now, no team can pay out more than the mid-level to get him except Denver – and no Euro teams are looking to make a splash because the economy is hitting them even harder than us. So he’s stuck money-wise.

Childress is probably thanking his lucky stars that he take a QO offer last summer, because Olympiacos wouldn’t spend nearly as much on him this year.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctlo8PgHfho

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I already told you guys…You don’t need to rebuild for 39 years to win a championship. Did Miami do the 30 year rebuilding when they sucked? No — they made a big trade and got them to the next level. This roster right now will NOT GET PAST THE 2ND ROUND. WE WILL NOT IMPROVE ON THIS PAST YEAR, EXCEPT FOR WINNING A COUPLE MORE GAMES. RESIGNING OUR FREE AGENTS AND ADDING SOME 40 Y.O. HAS-BEEN VETERAN IS THE BIGGEST MISTAKE THIS FRANCHISE CAN MAKE

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A Tribe.. why the pessimism? FA signing is not yet done. Actually I think FAs can only be signed after the NBA has set the cap and luxury tax.

Likewise, I believe that the midget pg your talking about has a good 2-3 more years as a starter and another 2-3 years as a backup. Don’t give up yet on Mr. Sund he might pull off another big trade (or signing) in the coming days. (But I do agree that we should be atleast hearing news re: a new deal with Zaza/Marvin/Flip.)

Go Hawks!!

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Big Dave, you seem to be in love with Rasheed… a man-cruch is the only explanation for you to desire a guy who’s averages in the 2009 playoffs were the following:

PPG 6,5; RPG 6,30; APG 0,8; EFF + 8,75

And in relation to ‘Sheed having a big 30 on his clip in the sole game he played with the Hawks, your man-crush is again taking you into the realm of dreams:

His line was the following:

03-04 ATL 42min FG8-24 3PT1-6 FT3-3 OFF1 DEF5 TOTREB6 ASS2 STL1 BLK5 TO3 20PTS.

Hardly impressive. We get this out of J. Smoove just about every night (including the FG and 3PTS accuracy and lack of rebounding to go with a nice number of blocks)…

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Good point Mike! Some of these ‘blog GMs’ think running a team is like playing a video game. The Hawks are on the upswing and have a lot of good things going for them now. At the end of the day, a player has to ‘want’ to come here at a price the Hawks are willing to pay. Sure, they may need to ‘overpay’ for certain players but not for everyone. Having a salary cap in place means they must project salaries out over several seasons and determine how that can impact the team down the road.

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They also say the Hawks will let Za Za go.

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I hope that report is wrong because Anderon is not ZP.The Hawks need to sign ZP and add Anderson.I thought ZaZA would be priorty over Bibby.We can’t afford to lose a BIG that has proven he can play in this league.ZP needs to remain and also Flip. One of our big problems from last year is that M.Evans did not replace Chills.His D came up real short when we needed him.He is a good player but whem Chills,Marvin,Josh,JJ,and Holford was on the floor together they wrecked havoc on other teams because there was no advantage in switches for other teams.They were all long and athletic.They were fun to watch and they gave Boston hell.Nothing against Moe but I loved to see that 5 on the floor together.Iwish it was possible to bring Chills home.Ican dream.

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Sekou Smith

July 5th, 2009
2:33 pm
The Stoudemire to ATL rumors were generated out of thin air.

I must repectfully disagree with that statement:

First, Amare’e ststed in his press conference in Phoenix in responce to the variuos trade rumors that he had just returned from Atlanta and that the Hawks wanted him badly.

Second, there was a post on this blog concerning a statement (alledgedly) made by a local sportscaster concerning Amar’e instructing his agent to get him to Atlanta.

Third, your colleague, Mr. Bradley, started a very interesting topic on his blog stating emphatically that it was Joe that should be traded not Josh based upon potential and playoff performane. surely he did not get that topic from his ouija board.

As the immortal Charles Barkley so elegantly stated during TNT’s coverage of the Hawks vs. Cleveland serise” they(the Hawks) are going to have to make up their mind whether or not this Josh’s team or Joe’s team”.

I believe that this statement frames the issue before Mr. Sund as he enters his second year. And if it comes to a vote ,I have no doubt how Woodson will vote.

Clearly withe the moves that Cleveland and Boston have made to bolster their front lines the Hawks are going to have to adjust. Already undersized in terms of both heft and height, there are few options especially when you consider what assets they have to trade.

So, I believe that after the amount of Josh’s contract trade clause is reduced, a move will be made and it could be a win-win.

The Hawks will have two veteran All-Stars playing in the final year of their contracts; Marvin gets to become the third offensive option/defensive stopper/ 3 point specialist that his fans swear he is.Josh gets to headline a running ,gunning team that will feature some young guys like Robin Lopez(maybe Channing Fry) and prehaps be guided by Steve Nash.

Josh will finally get his wish to play the 3 and will be one of the senior guys on the team in tearms of experience- he will have to become a leader both on and off of the court, something that was not in the cards here since the powers that be have long tried to find anyone(unsuccessfully) but Josh as the face of the franchise. Wonder how Calypso al is going to take to the fat that his brief rein as the cross cultural, bi-lingual face of the franchise days are over?

I can’t say this will happen as I have outlined but I can say that there has been smoke as well as fire from the Hawks on this topic.

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I hear chill doesnt even want to play here….is that a true rumor?

I like bibby and like it or not him and jj are the floor generals. They run this team. Flip comes in when bibby gets winded and takes over. Flip is part of the reason we got to the playoffs as well. Hardly anyone gives al credit for his work either. He does a great job on both ends of the floor.
I dont know how sund is gonna do it but he better make a decision on flip and zaza very soon.

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Resign ZAZA Bibby Marvin……… Sign Wilcox to be our big off the bench with ZAZA-I would like to get flip back -he really took us thru sum rough periods with his Offense but his muney needs to be spent on Wilcox or Frye/Bass…… R Morris is complete garbage -cut his azz and use the 800k on sumthing else. Resign Solo for the cheap if possible -big men are going fast so he’d be a good option for depth.

Antoine Walker ????? Antoine Walker???? Sum people never learn-I guess JR Ryder is next on sum wish list’s…………..

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So lets not trade two starters for one. Lets trade the rights to Marvin, Josh C, David A, And a 1st round pick for Bosh. Thats alot for toronto and we have a frontline of bosh, smith, and horford.

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I am ok with letting ZaZa go if we are bringing in a shot-blocking center to replace him, in addition to andersen. if the Hawks trade Josh for a one-year rental of Amare then Sund will have killed the future of this team imho.

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Jerry,

Why would Toronto trade for 2 SF (Chills & Marvin) after they agreed to pay 53 mil to another SF (Hedo) in free agency?

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maybe sign ZAZA But let Marvin Get well somewhere else. Will always be a project in the works. Not mentally tough enough now and maybe never

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Bring in ANTOINE WALKER for a workout at least. Trade Chills to the Bobbies for DERRICK BROWN.

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David Andersen similar to Okur

got it from another site

David Andersen plays lot like Mehmet Okur so here’s how I would ccmpare the two from what I’ve seen (of Andersen since 2002):

Athleticism: Andersen is slightly more athletic and more agile
Size: Very similar / Both are 6′11-ish but Okur is 5-10 punds heavier
BBall IQ: Very similar. I think Andersen has a little more all-around awareness.
Rebounding: Okur seems a little better and has avg 7-8 reb over his career.
Shooting: Similar. Their shots even look very similar. Andersen shoots a great % but Okur is NBA-tested and proven. They both also have range extended to 3PT.
Post Scoring: Andersen is clearly better. He has a ton of moves, fakes, and a very soft touch around the basket.
Post Defense: Undetermined. Once again, Okur is NBA-tested and proven.
Quickness: Andersen is faster, quicker and hustles more.
Ball Handling: Similar. But again Andersen is faster, quicker, and handles well.

Other similarities: They both have great hands (even in traffic), the both know how to use their height, they both have aggressive scoring mentalities for their size, and they are great inside-out compliments to strong centers.

Re-sign Zaza and add D. Andersen!!!

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Yeah of course thats the best way to improve the team: bring in a 34 yo chucker with a bad attitude …… Y I ask -if he could’nt get any burn with Minnesota or memphis -just say no to mr. shimmy he’s garbage at this point.

I can see it now Him and smoove fighting for point guard duties on the fast break…..I saw J Koncak a few weeks ago y dont we just sign him and move Al to the 4……..Where does this crap come from My Gawd

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Melvin,

If that were reliable info, the next question would be who do you trade, and what kind of center are you getting? Whoever it is has to be a solid starting center with enough youth to run with Al for the next 4-6 years. Otherwise, it’s a waste if the person isn’t an all-star (which he won’t be).

Nookah,

That’s the big gamble. We could have our eyes on another big man all we want. Actually obtaining the guy is the trick. We had our eyes on ‘Sheed. He’s gone. Same with Gortat (I think he’s gone, too).

As I stated in a post on another blog, the backup plan is the important one. Every team has a first option plan. But it’s the backup plans that are the most critical, because first options don’t come to pass nearly as often as teams would like, especially if they guy they’re after is any good. If he’s any good, the competition is fierce.

Too many of the veteran players out there want to go to teams they are certain will be contenders, or teams they are certain they can help to contend. 47 wins or not, we have had only one winning season with this crew. The pickiest of the veteran free agents are still not sure that we are real winners. We go into each season with an element of doubt. Why that is, is a subject of much debate, and I have my own strong opinions about it. Prime example: seems like we’re an up and coming team, yet ‘Sheed wanted no part of this. No, I can’t guess what’s in his mind anymore than I can guess yours, but I can speculate that he wants a better chance at getting another ring and guess what? Boston provides a better chance, hands down.

So, the question remains: who can you steal off the pile that helps, when the most sought after guys won’t come (be it money or desire to contend for a championship)?

Which brings me to another speculation: I’d be a bit surprised, though pleasantly so, if Antonio McDyess came here.

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I just really hope any trades of our starters (Josh S.) are not for a one-year rental.

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melvin, amare to play center for josh? if he is ready for that role then fine, i will show up to see the games. got my tickets so no line for me. thanks for the heads up as i will look in that direction. boston didnt make their move until late that year, right? patience is a virtue from fan perspective this year, last year there was an urgency to it that for me is not there. again too many pieces to expect all the eggs to immediately fall into my basket. do enjoy the read the speculation, clarity, insights of others and certainly see the interest here in my hawks. beats what it was a few years ago.

that is why if you dont know what the big picture is on how they want to shape the team with the moving pieces they have or have to fill nor know what the ultimate budget is you simply cant extrapolate to what the end product would look like. last year was simple and focused, this year is potential for greatness or chaos.

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SCOTT,

I would like to think that we are WELL ROUNDED SPORTS FANS. Even though this is a primarily basketball blog, we occassionally mention other sports even world events, like the passing of Farrah, MJ, or McNair.

There is no Tennis Blog on the AJC site. So while analyzing what the Hawks should or should not do, we through in comments about tennis. Sorry!!

Maybe you should find another blogsite, if this one offends you so much.

“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends!”

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Fudd21,

The rich get richer. Artest or not, the Lakers better watch out. Tim Duncan has a penchant for staying healthier and more productive at all the right times, unlike the gargantuan Yao Ming. And with Parker, Ginobilli, Jefferson, Gooden, Big Baby, Mason, etc….they’re going to be deeper than the Nile River. Man am I glad we don’t play in the West. We’d have never won 47 games. Maybe not even 37.

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doc,

Outside of the Portland(who I don’t think in the market for a backup center) and OKC, there’s no other team that has 6 mil under the cap? So where did ZaZa get his 6 mil promise from? Hmmm don’t believe the hype? Now that the Celtics got Sheed, Mavs got Gortat (i think), Houston got Ariza and Spurs got (Big Baby) all those teams using their MLE to sign these players. Where can ZaZa go now? Magic, well they didn’t want to pay Gortat the full MLE. I like the Hawks chances to resigning him now…..

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As much as I’d love to see the Hawks get McDyess (or Joe Smith who is a slight notch below Dice), if we have in fact signed Andersen, we may need to set our sights lower. Lower like Malik Rose, Adonal Foyle, Jason Collins, Jamal Magloire and Stromile Swift.

And I’d love to know what happened to Drew Gooden, as he went from being a promising young big to someone who is seemingly an after-thought at the ripe old age of 27/28. Strange.

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I like Bibby, but is there going to be enough minutes for everybody? Crawford and Bibby are both starters, and it’s not like we have any room at the other guard spot. Teague’s going to have to get some minutes somewhere too. Unless Crawford is willing to spell both/either Bibby AND JJ. That might be cool. Or maybe Bibby is ready to come off the bench?

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Bibby is our starting point guard. Joe is our starting 2-guard. Crawford will come off the bench and he’ll get plenty of minutes (because I’m confident he’ll see time at both guard spots), I expect around 26-28 minutes a game, and that could def. change every game just depending on how he’s shooting the ball because he’s very streaky. Jeff Teague will probably get around 8-10 minutes to start the year and if he performs well, Woody will have no choice but to play him. Bibby won’t be coming off the bench though.

And Joe – I think Gooden may be headed to Europe..

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DeJuan Blair..

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Mitch (from Massachusetts) here. There’s another Mitch who was posting yesterday. I’m the Mitch who is still pleading with Sekou to give us his 4 moves.

My worry is with Rick Sund. Last year he lost out on Childress, on rather surprising circumstances for sure, yet Sund did a poor job of evaluating Childress’ worth, IMO. I think that Childress was very close to being the team’s MVP. He was by far the most consistent player energy-wise and effort-wise. I will never forget him hustling all-out late in games where the Hawks were down big. I also loved Chill’s tenacity on defense and regarded him as the team’s most effective defender. In addition, I loved the way Chills played the short corner on the baseline. For a team that has severely lacked a post presence in the Woodson era, Childress’ play on the baseline was a real asset and a necessary option. Not only could Chills get to the rim and score in split seconds from the short corner, he could draw and dish in textbook fashion.

Chills wants back to the NBA…but still Sund is mot making a play for him. I think this is a mistake. Add Chills’ defense and short corner offensive ability and fast break ability to the current upgrade the Hawks have in talent and he would push this team over the 50 win mark. I want to see Childress on the likes of Devin Harris, Kobe, Wade, Pierce, Lewis and LeBron Without Childress, we don’t have a chance versus the Cavs, Celtics or Magic.

Sund also botched the Josh Smith negotiations, and was only able to re-sign Smith thanks to the Grizzlies’ contract offer dropping in Sund’s lap. What we still don’t know is just how well Smith figures into Sund’s or Woodson’s plans. We know how explosive Smith can be, especially in the open floor, but honestly, what is he still doing hanging out on the perimeter hoisting up ill-advised threes???, when he should be inside positioning for offensive rebounds and tip-ins or better yet, slam-ins. The thing is, Josh has made good progress as a post threat and the team needs a post threat. But the team really needs Smith to get after the glass on both ends with equal tenacity.

I give Sund a great deal of credit for adding role players Mo Evans and Flip Murray last year, despite screwing up the Childress and Smith situations. But, as much as I like Evans and Murray, Josh Childress is a far better player and a stronger piece to the puzzle.

Now, I give Sund credit for the Crawford trade. Crawford is the type of scorer who can get the Hawks’ nightly average over 100 points this year.

However, the worry now has to be that not only does Sund continue not to see the value he has in Childress, but the value he has in ZaZa Pachulia. ZaZa is the team’s one and only consistent offensive rebounder (which has to change this year—see comments on Josh Smith–and Al Horford and the other big, whomever that will be,must emerge more strongly)..and he brings the inside toughness and moxie this team sorely needs more of. Why ZaZa is still sitting there unsigned is a mystery. It’s not like the Hawks have to offer him starters’ money. And if Sund twiddles his thumbs on ZaZa the way he did with Childress and Smith last summer, this team is going to lose him and is going to be weaker up front in an area that is already questionable.

As for re-signing Mike Bibby—yes, I think that’s a good move if the money is right. Bibby is a good fit for this current team and has bonded well with the players and coaches. Reports are that Sund is making progress with Bibby, but just today there was article in ESPN that says that Bibby’s agent has called Philadelphia again to see if their interest in Bibby has magnified over the past few days. So, don’t be shocked if Bibby suddenly signs in Philly or New York. Let’s hope that if he does, Flip Murray hasn’t been snatched away by someone else.

Also, there haven’t been any legitimate reports to suggest that the Hawks are coveting free agent big men. What is up with that? One would think the Hawks would be focused on upgrading this area of the team more than any other.

Thus, one has to wonder if Sund is a Hamlet-like GM who needs others to make his mind up for him and cannot act decisively when action under pressure is required. Does Sund have a real plan?

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after bibby, our next priority should be marvin, childress, gorat, or lamar odom. then it will be game over for opposing teams

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Looks like Sund plans are starting to unfold. On Bradley Blog there’s report that the big guy Garrent Siler will play in the summer league for the Timberwolves and then report to the Hawks mini training camp. I guess Siler and Andersen (both non-NBA players) are the backup plan if we lose ZaZa…

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It makes me very uncomfortable to think of David Anderson as are back up plan for Za. I though Anderson is a power forward, which could be exactly what we need in terms of bench help, to go along with Za. He is obviously untested in the NBA, but would surely be an upgrade over Solo, with a huge potential upside if he indeeds plays like Okhur.

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NAJEH-You can’t argue with logic, although some will try. Allow me to add to your comments. Denver traded their starting center MCamby, the NBA’s leading shotblocker, to the Clippers and actually became a better DEF team. They reduced their 107.0 PPG allowed with Camby to 100.9 PPG without him. How did they accomplish that feat you ask? Well, they also traded their one dimensional shoot 1st, and often, leading scorer, PG AIverson. They replaced him with CBillups, a DEF minded, facilitating PG that actually works to get everyone involved in the OFF and DEF.

KEN-Your question about how we would fair against Orlando or Boston if we met in the 2nd round of the playoffs this upcoming season is an interesting question. I think we’d fair very well against Orlando. We match up very well against them, and I don’t think VCarter can compensate for the loss of Turkouglu and what he brought their OFF. And remember, VCarter will be replacing last yrs starting SG, not Turgouglu. They’ll have to use someone else to replace him at PF.

In the playoffs, winning and losing often comes down to a teams ability to employ the proper strategy and make in gm decisions and adjustments. As we have all seen, we are severely lacking in that department. We can’t expect to continue advancing in the playoffs if our sideline is too stupid/stubborn to realize we can’t allow players like DWade, LJames, PPierce or RAllen to do their thing without even thinking about using double teams, or trying to force the ball out of their hands, like we refused to do in last yrs playoffs. Our HC waited until the 2nd rd of the playoffs, and the 4th gm of an embarrassing 4gm sweep, to employ double teaming. In the playoffs, the difference between winning and losing is often decided by the talent on the sidelines.

I think the only team that will improved without question is Boston, with the addition of RWallace. He’ll come off the bench and won’t pose any chemistry or adjustment problems for their starting team. That can’t be said for Orlando or Cleveland.

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Great points, DBo!

You reminded me of another reason why I love Childress…he plays to his strengths, plays super smart (within himself) and takes the right shots at the right time…something this team needs more of.

Please, Rick Sund, go back and look at the 2008 tapes to re-evaluate Childress. We need his defense, his smarts and his versatility.

Without him, who is going to cover Rashad Lewis? LeBron? Paul Pierce? Marvin is the best option right now, but he’s nowhere near the defender Childress is. Plus, Childress can defend guards like Dwayne Wade, Devin Harris, CP3, Ben Gordon and Brandon Roy because at 6′8″ he’s tough to shoot over and he’s quick and agile enough to beat them to the spots and turn them around into help on the dribble.

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Daniel: While I agree with you about setting the market, Sund got fooled on that last year. I’d rather be pro-active rather than reactive. It sits better with the players. Plus, working on one player at a time is not good…because while he’s working on Bibby, ZaZa might get some action and feel wanted elsewhere. Marvin is restricted, so that gives Sund more time and the ability as in Smoove’s cae, to match, if he gets signed to an offer sheet. Even so, Sund should be making Marvin offers as we speak. We cannot let Marvin go for nothing next year. Absolutely cannot. He was the #2 pick in the draft three years ago.

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Doc, u, Joe, Ken, and other Blog old timers know this is all about BASG & being a 2nd tier contender…

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Brandon: I love the idea of David Lee…wonder if a sign and trade involving Marvin woud be attractive to the Knicks? We have to get tougher and more physical up front on both ends of the floor and Lee would be a great fit.

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ATF, no doubt. I truly believe that goal is to become relevant in the near-term so that once the ownership fiasco is settled (and we have stability at the top), that we can attract a brand name GM and/or Head Coach that can likewise recruit a superstar to join the team at some point. And I really can’t argue with that strategy. Using this interim period to “repair the brand” seems logical. For all of the “fire Woody” discussion, there remains little reason to be assured that we can attract a clear upgrade with the ownership issue unresolved. I agree, it feels like we’re competing to be the “best of the rest” in the Eastern Conference. But that’s better tahn unloading quality players in hopws of landing a FA in a future summer (or tanking the season to add more ping-pong balls). It is what it is. I’ll take another 45-48 win season in a heart-beat.

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anakin joe- I totally agree with you on Bass over Frye. I know Frye has a better pedigree, but is he really any better than Solo?
Mitch, I do agree on Marvin, he needs to be involved in a sign/trade or a long term(4year) deal. Clearly, Bibby and Za are both important to resign fairly quickly. Bibby is a different situation from Za, in that the market is less likely to set his contract terms.
This whole David Anderson thing also throws a wrench into the system, as well as waiting on Childress.

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When did Childress become a defensive MVP? I don’t ever remember Chills shutting down LeBron, Pierce, DWade, etc…

Chills does play good team defense & is a sneaky rebounder/scorer. Plus if he was as good as some claim, other teams would have made S&T offers last year that the Hawks would have accepted.

Chills was always a favorite of mine. But if you are that important to your team they don’t win 10 more games the season you leave. He was replaced at half his asking price by 2 journeymen that were headed to Europe. Let’s be realistic in our evaluation of Chills.

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A good mentoring asset to Josh and Al? Sorry, but that’s a laugh. Maybe the Rasheed of 5 years ago, but not the Rasheed of today. The last thing we needed was a big man showing Josh that it’s ok to chuck threes and never crash the offensive boards…he does enough of that without Sheed setting an example.

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Coon responded quickly:

There’s no exception for second rounders (whether playing in Europe or not). Second rounders are usually signed using the Minimum Salary exception, but it’s not that uncommon for them to be signed using the MLE – not necessarily so they can be give a higher salary, but because they can give three years.

I take him at his word. So we’d have to burn part of our MLE or (less likely) the full bi-annual to bring him over.

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I did/and still do play lots of team sports. so, save your little dig for someone else. That is one of the silliest takes I have read on this blog, which is saying a lot. Go back to the drawing board.

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niremental- I would assume that if they sign David Anderson, then Childress will get his outright release.

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Dan23- I think our only hope with Childress is that he wants back in the league, but is willing to do a sign and trade. Otherwise we will likely have to release him to avoid another cap hold figure.

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I.MUS LOL@ “Mr.Shimmy”

Ray, If we had to play OKC, CLippers, Kings and Grizz four times a year like the Blazers got to. We’d defenetly get 47 or more wins in the west.

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bigdave,

Laughable? Read your posts man, because you’re contradicting yourself. Before you said Rasheed would make a good mentor to Josh. Now you’re saying that teaching him wouldn’t be Rasheed’s responsibility. Huh? Good thing you’re not a lawyer, dude.

By the way, who did Rasheed ever mentor? Darko?

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All we need is a Center, then have a 2 headed center.. Move Horford to his natural PF, JSmooth to SF, JJ and Bibby – with Marvin, Crawford and Teague off the bench this team gets 50+ wins and should get the #3 spot in the East and run for #2 spot

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What is the backup plan if we lose ZaZa? (And I really dont understand why its taking so long to sign him, unless ZaZa is looking for other options to go elsewhere). Give him 4 years, $22-$24 mil.

I would love to see Antonio McDyess here, but he didnt want to go to Denver, so why would he want to come here.

Drew Gooden is out there, and so is Joe Smith, along with Brandon Bass. Hopefully, Sund will get an established veteran big (along with Zaza).

JKidd got 3 years, $25 million. I wonder what Bibby’s deal is going to be? (I hope its not more than 3 years, $21 mil).

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Daniel…

take the good with the bile… do you guys just look at players at face value…? i guess you look at them as “bias” fans and not teammates.. maybe you are “fearful” of him because he doesnt have the “image” you would like your kids to pattern themselves after… when has Rasheed ever been a “locker room cancer”? all his teammates love him… even players that arent on his team respect Sheed.. most of Sheeds beef came from the league or officials… to be honest i dont mind Josh techs (however with good timing) the Hawks have gotten no respect from game officials; i think thats from our demeanor of our star, and head coach… Josh just complains too much.. therefore the effect is lost. there’s a way to let the officials know you’re not getting calls… thats another intangible thats missing from our team…

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Obrien, I hope it’s not more than 3 yr 18 mill. with a team option for the 3rd year. But it’ll probably end up being around what you said, to my dismay of course.

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Daniel,

The tender offer and the cap hold are two separate things. The tender offer is what is necessary to retain the right to offer any matches for Chill as a restricted free agent. The cap hold is the amount that is counted against our cap as long as we hold his Bird rights, which apply to any free agent, restricted or unrestricted, who plays under the same contract for 3 or more years (which is why we have Bird rights and cap holds for Bibby and Zaza, not just Chill and Marvin). The tender offer does not count against our cap figure – only the cap hold does.

The luxury tax and the cap figure are two separate things. The luxury tax is simply the amount of money actually paid out to players under contract (and that is calculated based on players under contract as of the final day of the regular season). The cap figure includes lots of things in addition to the salaries of players under contract – most notably cap holds for our free agents. Since Childress is a free agent without an active who most recently played with us, he has a cap hold, but that cap hold is not included in our luxury tax figure.

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*without an active contract

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I never said the reason we won 10 more games was because Childress left. I just pointed out that we DID win 10 more games with him not here. We probably could have won an extra 5 games if we kept him, Flip & Mo.
But realistically thinking – would it be worth the extra $6.5M to pay Childress to win an additional 5 games? We still wouldn’t have beaten Cleveland in the playoffs with Childress. Fiscal responsibility plays an important part in this process.

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Doc, when you speak about Chills like that, it makes me believe that you think BK is a genius. That player you just talked about, plus Josh Smith in one draft has to be considered the best draft in NBA History.. Wouldn’t you think? Throw out 2006(Shellhead) and he’s the GM of the decade. Just messin with you Doc, but you did make Chills sound like Scottie Pippen.

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daniel…

didnt say that… where are you getting that from…?

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terrell, thank you. heh heh as i bow.

just giving the guy chills credit where it was due. wore a whole lot of hats didnt he? also pointing out the fallacy of the thought if chills then not flip as flip type of guy was huge and we all knew it for years and crawford is going to take it to the next level. yes terrell you know i will give even woody credit when he deserves it as i will bk. i dont have an agenda of my own except for the basg to keep heading in the right direction. if i dont there is always my wing man ATF!

jhan not quibbling just evening out the argument a bit. he is on salary here somehow either in real dollars or not and it will need to be spent in some way even in a sign and trade jhan so it does involve fiscal responsibility unless we give him away for nothing which we have “tendered” not to do.

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Amen Scott!……. Who the hell cares about tennis- Maybe sum of yall should start a tennis blog to quench yallz Wimbeldon thirst…. The only tennis I want to see is Sarenas Donk bounce’n everywhere or Sharapova with her sexxy grunting…..Any Hoo just say no to tennis on the hawks blog

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bigdave, If i’m not mistaken josh ONLY had 2 or 3 techs on the season. Why would he need anything from ’sheed? You guys potray josh as some dumb kid who wines but the truth is he hasn’t really done anything(technical fouls) to jeapordize our teams chances of winning on the hardwood.

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i’m pretty sure all reasoning is cognitive……lol

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doc – I certainly hope we don’t lose Chills for nothing. We can’t afford to lose our assets without compensation.

IMUS – she sure does bounce around doesn’t she? Can’t say that sucks to watch!

Astro – I agree with you on the West vs East debate. Obviously the best team was from the West but overall talent was fairly close. Next season I wouldn’t be suprised if the East was the better conference.

Many times I watched Bibby calm down Josh while he was going nuts at the refs. Do you think Sheed would do the same? I think he would make things even worse. We can’t afford to have 2 players with that type personality on the team. I’ll take Josh over Sheed all day long.

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From Sekou’s twitter feed:

“Watching Josh Smith and Steve Smith workout at McEachern HS. Ol’ school teaching new school a few tricks of the trade.”

“Source: Hawks have presented their case to Zaza Pachulia & await his decision on a new deal. Stay tuned.”

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Nire….

no….no.. i think i initially was responding to Vava74 then you felt the need to comment so then distributed my defense to the both of you guys… you first, though you didnt mention my name, then Daniel followed with his 2 cents so i addressed him… im not trying to “lash out” at anyone.. im cool as a fan over here.. bout to drink a Miller Chill and play 360… my day is done…

furthermore, actually it was you that called my opinion laughable… “A good mentoring asset to Josh and Al? Sorry, but that’s a laugh.” i then, said your assessment of my statement was laughable…

personally i could careless if anyone here agreed with me or not… obviously the Atlanta Hawks did…
i mean, but to my point… a mentor can be defined as one who serves as a trusted counselor or teacher, especially in occupational settings. now… to this could be a head coach, and assistant, a player, etc. Rasheed Wallace, a player, who has had relative success in the league (IN MY OPINION) would have been my choice as a free agent acquisition to our Hawks… do i know Rasheed Wallace… no. do i know of his respect throughout the league, yes. do i feel that Rasheed could provide intangibles (which i have used soo many times in this explanation) to our young talented bigs, yes. is there any empirical evidence to support this… no… why, cause he doesnt play for us… so who knows, its a hit or miss… just like Sekou said…

now.. u can say.. who has he mentored, “Darko”… Darko is nowhere near as talented as our bigs.. thats how i know you are only seeing your side of this discussion.. cause clearly you forgot Sheed played with a young Jermaine O’Neal… Jermaine developed to be an inside out (not 3 pt range) threat just like Sheed…

to be more precise… i think he could have helped Josh and Al defensive prowess… team defensive concepts, fall/fade away jumper that Al loves, etc. this is Mr. 2 time 100 3’s 100 blks.

Niremental Esq.

Game… Set… Match…

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I am emerging from my depression/coma about the Bibby resigning and trying to embrace the Hawks next direction.

My arguement is simple:

The only way Teague will grow is playing…Woody has shown over the years tht letting young guards play, mess up and grow is not his strength. (See Diaw, Ivey)

We all lament the miss of CP3 and DeronWill, but Will did not look that good in his 1st year and Paul lead the league in turnovers in his first month or so; but guess what they were allowed to play and they grew.

I just hope 3 years from now we don’t still have Horford playing 5 and we are not trying to figure out if Teague was a bust!

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Daniel… nobody is taking shots… boy you guys are sensitive.. you just arent saying what i said… therefore i dont see your point…

and no.. i still think Sheed would have been good for the Hawks…

and if for anything, why not have this guy on our team… geesh.. mentor or no mentor… when Josh starts trippin, you know falling in love with jumpers, or Al is giving us nothing… sit em…!! put in a Rasheed Wallace… offense and defense… we didnt have that luxury… but now Boston does… so no need to even care anymore…

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I’m glad Josh is hanging out with Smitty. And given the fact that Smitty was a color analyst for the Hawks, he got to see Josh up close and personal during the season’s games. (Between Smitty and Mark Price, I hope Josh can develop a consistent mid-range jumper).

Ariose,

Although Josh hasnt gotten many technicals, there are many plays where his head is just not in the game. Too often he is whining at the referee about the foul (not being called), while the opposing team is on a breakway.

I wish Josh would stop complaining/whining to the refs so much (and I wish JJ would complain to the refs more).

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Meidzo- The Bibby resigning?!? do you know something that we don’t?

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All of this chatter about Chills have me a bit confused. My understanding of the matter is he has to renounce his Greek contract before the 15th of this month before anything can be done by anyone, right? If he renounces that contract and receives an offer from another club, we have the right to match that offer, right? If we match that offer, and choose not to do a sign and trade, he either has to play for us or sit out the entire yr if he want’s to regain his FA status, right?

Having a bench comprised of Chills, Crawford, Teague, Anderson, Zaza, Evans and filler would give us a versatile, talented, athletic and deep bench. However, having that much talent and versatility, and being in a contract yr, might put too much pressure on Woodson to win big and force him to retreat back to his play my starters until they drop mentality.

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Daniel,Very true…completely forgot. I guess I was just using myself(mainly cognitive when pretaining to every day ordinary things…) as a refrence.

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jhan, I was hoping that you and O’Brien wouldn’t catch that lol. I should’ve known better

Like I said, I see that stuff too, can’t deny it. I was trying to make smoove look better by using the technical foul angle which, compared to rasheed or even Kove who led he leauge last season, it alsmost non-existant.

But my half-reasoning was caught by you two lol.

I really hope Josh matures over this summer. In game(ability) and in cognitive reasoning lol. But, he’s our guy and for all his flaws i’m glad we have him, as opposed to not having him at all.

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Aroise,

Ditto your post @ 2:09. Like Ray said, either you love or hate Josh Smith. He is “The Most Interesting Hawks Player”. He’s such a knucklehead, why would he train with great vets of the game like Smitty, Dream and Murphy? Shouldn’t he be hanging out at Luckie Lounge trying to start a bar fight or something? Better yet, he should have been caught with a DUI leaving Strokers this summer. That guy sure needs to grow up… However, you better hope Chills doesn’t go to the Cavs. He would be a great blue collar guy for Lebron, Mo and Shaq.

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HawkDog, and do tell who is this mythical center that all we need to get to have 50+ wins. Hey people just because we want someone doesn’t mean they want to come here or that we can afford him. Sheed and Artest took the mid-level because they feel they are on contenders. I’m sorry to inform some of you but we are more than a Sheed or Artest away from a title. And enough of the move Josh to SF. He made strides on his low post game. Let him stay where he is and work on that. Honestly do you really want a traditional center to come in that will force Josh to be more perimeter oriented. Please haven’t we seen enough 3 pointers and long 2 pointers from him.

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Ken,

“Having a bench comprised of Chills, Crawford, Teague, Anderson, Zaza, Evans and filler would give us a versatile, talented, athletic and deep bench.”

I like that bench. Throw in Solo as the 12 man and let’s get it on…

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bigdave- I guess the point that I was making that you are apparently never going to see. Is that you said, not me interpreting, the Rasheed would make a good mentor to Josh and Al. That is what you said, not me. Then, when niremental, Ariose, or myself say that ‘Sheed is not a mentor, you completely dodge the issue. Nobody was arguing whether or not having Rasheed Wallace would help the Hawks, the point is the guy is NOT a mentor to younger players. And, you have taken shots by suggesting that to understand your point of view someone would have had to play team sports. Then, you made some vague reference to me about ‘Sheed being the wrong influence on my children, and called out Niremental for sounding like a lawyer.
I, on the other hand, have definitely called you out. You have not responded directly to any of my comments beyond saying that I don’t understand what you meant.
So let me be clear, I am not overly sensitive, but I do get your little jabs and I just want you to be man enough to be clear about them and stand behind them.
If not then keep your opinions to yourself.

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Yeah jhan -Im a leg and butt man myself -i couldwatch her play all day long-now venus not so much LOL… No offense to any lady bloggers….

Chilldress …HMMMM I dont remember This guy being a defensive jaugarnaut – What i do remember is him being to slow to gaurd the pg/sg most times and too light in the drawz/ not strong enuff to play most sf’s…….. He moves well with out the ball and gets alot of garbage points around the rim- o i forgot -the man shoots from his hip litterally………….. How the hell did he make it to this level shooting like a 12 yo gurl

Anyway my point was he’s okay on defense and didnt have a reliabe shot (garbage pointz)- There are definitely better options -I would prefer Flip or yung craw over this guy 6 out of 7 days

Dam Big Baby abd Blair -thats alot of beef …. I luv the way The Spurs handle bussiness- No championship-No Problem jus reload and go hard…. I hate the lakers with a passion so i’ll be pulling for the Spurs next yr except when they play us– I think they need to Sign O’berto back for length……..

Hope everybody had a Happy Holiday- I ate and drank way too much

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Ken- I love that bench also. I assume you have Bibby and Marvin starting. I don’t know how we can get Za, Chils and Williams resigned. But, it is possible. The Childress part being the most unlikely. But, I am with you on that one.

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Nookah- I would say 50 wins and a strong second round showing, possible conference finals appearance.

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ariose he doesnt sa much but since i have been beside himin games and he has seen may a one these past few years, he is a keen observer. you dont sneak it past the man.

nice melvin. wish i had a kid as mature and rich as josh though i love my son a year older than josh. you have met him so you really jnow what i mean. with josh i say keep it in perspective, what we expect these kids and they really are, to be and act as men. josh has his failings and dont we all, but for some reason folks want to magnify his while overlooking the frailties of others. doubt there isnt a member here who wouldnt jump at he chance to say “josh? yup, that is my son.” well, maybe nire, but his due is coming soon as he juggles profession and child rearing. heh heh

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The current Childress S/T talk with Milwaukee centers on B Bowen per Hollinger of ESPN (pasted below) but I much prefer Hickson unless the Milwaukee pick is unprotected at least in the mid first round as early as next year (I would also value the pick if we have the option to exchange 1st round picks within 5 to 10 positions) however Bowen does have only 1 more year and gives us an expiting contract for 2010 which could be valuable at the trade deadline this year.

Hollinger quote -
Childress will likely have to head back to Greece if he can’t work out a sign-and-trade with Milwaukee (it’s possible, as a contract starting at $5.1 million in a sign-and-trade for Bruce Bowen and a draft pick works under the cap; the total value of a five-year deal with 10 percent raises would be $30.6 million), while Williams seems likely to play for the $7.3 million qualifier in Atlanta and try again a year from now.

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Look folks. The Hawks ain’t gettin outta the second round without an interior defender who can lock down the lane. But, who fills that void? I’d be lying, if I told you I knew the answer. I do know, it ain’t either of the Andersons yall keep mentioning. **Zaza**’s a hustler and very valuable asset to the team. He **MUST be re-signed!** But, we all know he ain’t any better than an average defender and rebounder. **Yall should also forget about Chilz.** The kid ain’t sacrificing millions in some sort of desperate desire to get back into the league. Jo$h will spend another year with Olympiakos, then calculate the next move in his professional career. It has been rumored that Chilz has been seen in more places than Elvis. Let’s presume he IS visiting Milwaukee and other clubs. If so, Jo$h is just doing his homework and using this time to do some NBA “networking.” Chilz will make his return to the league in 2 years. Next summer, he will be a UFA and have the freedom to sign with whatever team offers the best combination of cash and championship contendership.

I don’t see Atlanta making any big trades or signings any time soon. It’s not in the ASG/GM’s character to do so. Hopefully RS will prove me wrong.

Go Hawks!

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Ariose, Big Dave, Melvin, Daniel and Big Ray and everyone:

The questions I have for you are: (1) with a player like Josh Smith, don’t you have to let him play without thinking too much? And let him play on instinct?

I would give him these rules on offense: stay off the perimeter, play the short corner, elbow or low post, flash for the ball if the paint is open, and when shots go up, go and get them.

One would imagine this is what Woody wants from Josh…yet, game after game Josh does not comply…and obviously is not being commanded to do so.

How many times have we seen that befuddled look on Woody’s face after Josh hoists up a 3 point brick off one pass?

This is where a decision HAS to be made: can the Hawks live with Josh’s mistakes in light of his tremendous penchant for making highlight reels, or do they trade him for valuable pieces that are better fits?

The one daunting thing is: Josh is the only shot blocker on this current roster. If they can’t get a shot blocking center in return for him, would it be worth trading him?

Your thoughts?

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Bigdave, Gotcha. Joe AND WOODson need to step up in that dept. Maybe it WAS a case of Smoove trying to copensate for our fearless(but quiet) leader Joe and to a lesser extent Woodson.

Other than Smoove(who def needs to tone it down and just play ball) and Flip, no one on our squad really gave it to the refs ALL THE TIME lol.

I belive Marvin got thrown out(or maybe it was just a tech) of a game by Violet Palmer one this season lol. And Zaza has ben thrown out 2 or 3 times this year as well. But I agree, It’s nothing compared to the extend and wich Josh and sometimes Flip B!%&ch about calls lol. I’m suprised they never get that many techs or get thown out. That, is an art by itself lol….gotta at least give them credit for that ha!

I can’t lie though, it’s very entertaining to watch sometimes. ESPECIALLY when ‘Sheed loses control Hehehehe…..

Doc, I’ll defenetly keep that in mind next time I try to pull that one over on him lol.

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Doc, you know I defenetly crank up the intensity in the summer once i’m done with my college courses heh!

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“I really hope Josh matures over this summer. In game(ability) and in cognitive reasoning lol. But, he’s our guy and for all his flaws i’m glad we have him, as opposed to not having him at all.”

Gotta agree with that as well…

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Daniel….

listen dude… nobody is trying to play tough guy on some internet blog… k.. first and foremost, let that be known. in order for you to take my comment so personally and turn it into, “my little jabs” they must have hit home… my comment about his image was due to your speculation about him being a “locker room cancer”… what is that about? for who’s team? the media…? the NBA? so i said, “maybe” you… meaning maybe.. maybe not… sit back.. i dont know you.. nor your kids.. im just basing my opinion off of what you wrote in response to my comment. a comment that was isolated and taken partially out of context. Rasheed being a “mentoring” figure for our young bigs was only half of the reason why i wanted him here in the 1st place. have you read any of my previous entry’s…? even the one today.. where i list (in my opinion) why i though he would be good for the Hawks based on like talents and postion. take your superman cape off… Nire, as spoke for himself.. and done a good job at articulating his point… Ariose as well.. im not writing you off because i dont want to “stand by my comments” i just dont see how and from where you are forming your inferences… i dont owe you anything, surely no explanation for what i put in this text. so, who you supposed to be…?

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Some of y’all need to drink less caffeine.

If I remember correctly, Steve Smith had a nice runner in the lane (comparable to Joe). I hope that is something that he is teaching Josh. Likewise, I remember Steve had a strong turn-around jumper that he used over smaller SGs. That, I hope he chooses NOT to try and teach Josh. Anything that has Josh attacking the basket is a good thing.

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Mitch ,

Good question, and I think Daniel answered it very well. Josh has abilities like few others, and that is worth hanging onto him for. He’s also not a trouble maker or locker room disturbance. As Daniel says, he should be admonished the most for trying to lead the break. I’m hoping and thinking that the addition of Jamal Crawford will quell this urge, as Crawford knows and understands the need to run when you know you can outpace the other team. He’ll know when the opportunities present themselves. And he can keep up.

I know the simple solution would SEEM to be a simple “no jumpers beyond this distance” directive, but I don’t think it’s that simple. At some point, you want a guy like Josh to be able to shoot from distance, particularly from midrange. No, I don’t think he needs to develop his 3-ball, but it won’t hurt if he becomes 1)Better at it, and 2)More judicious when it comes to deciding when to shoot it.

We can tell him not to learn that jumper, but smarter teams/coaches will know how and when to take away the best inside opportunities, and if that happens, he becomes useless to us on offense for a few stretches. Unless of course you are counting on Woody’s masterful offensive adjustments to save the day….

I’d just as soon have the kid work on his jumper, but not rely on it. Do we not want Al to be able to hit a jumper? Why not Josh? He’s not, and is never going to be any sort of dominant low post player (like an Al Jefferson). It just isn’t his game, and he’s really not built for it. He’s a bit of a hybrid, and a dangerous one at that.

As others have said, most of his issues are built around decision-making, and trying to do too much. This comes with maturity, and after another year, we should know whether or not he’s solidly on the path or simply a less than optimal fit. In which case, he’s very tradeable. Hey, it’s going to be a proving year, whether he or we like it or not.

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All heck, that Smitty move was so nice I can’t describe it in words. Maybe Ariose can link us to some vintage Smitty highlights…

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Melvin, I remember. Steve knew how to keep his opponents off balance and then take advantage of that situation. He can definitely teach Josh those fakes. With Josh’s quickness and leaping ability, he should be able to easily exploit an off-balance defender 60+% of the time. And again, Steve typically took the ball to the basket once his man was off-balance. But most of that starts with fundamental ball-handling, which seemingly can be done with a single player, a single basketball and loads of practice.

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thanks for the props big ray.

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Astro Joe,

That’s one of the problems with a guy coming out of high school not knowing much. He missed out on some serious fundamental work. I hope he’s motivated enough and understands that he needs to work on that particular fundamental. Maybe Smitty can point that out to him, as it seems that either nobody else has, or he has not listened to those who have. I’m not going to assume either, and just hope that he improves in this area.

Surely Smitty will be able to point it out if he tries to run Josh through some drills that require halfway decent ball-handling. That’s a good way to expose a weakness and address it.

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AJ/Ray,
Ditto to your last posts. Im just happy the guy is seeking help to improve his game. For some reason, I think he likes/idolize Smitty. I remember seen a pic of the team helping a family in New Orleans and Josh was standing right by Smitty (almost in his back pocket) and both were standing away from the rest of the guys. Oh well, maybe I read to much into the pic but I do remember saying dang, two of my favorite Hawks players next to each other (and yes, I love Nique two)…

Speaking of Smitty, I remember watching him play in college. He was a totally different player prior to the knee injuries. Not only was he a great passer, shooter and scorer in college. Dude use to jumpball for the Spartans from the SF/SG position. Had it not been for his knee injuries, Miami may not have traded him to the Hawks…

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I think it would only benefit the team if “every” player on the team could hit an open mid-range jumper. In order for Josh to progress further he needs to improve every aspect of his game. I guess he doesn’t really need to work on his jumping ability but everything else needs refinement.

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You people are just ASSUMING that the top teams in the East are getting better.

Shaq going to Cleveland isn’t an automatic upgrade…it doesn’t do anything to solve the problems they faced against Orlando last season.

I honestly don’t think the Magic are a better team WITHOUT TURKOGLU regardless of who replaced him.

The one team that I COULD and maybe WOULD argue has improved would be Boston. I think the addition of Sheed does them some good. However, we saw what a couple injuries could do to a club, and they are getting older…and how will their young PG respond to the trade rumors.

AS OF NOW, you just wait and see. You shouldn’t be focusing on the teams in front of you – but assuring that the teams behind you don’t leap past you. If the Hawks secure a 4 seed again, then they are in the position they want to be in going into the playoffs. I honestly don’t see the Hawks grabbing one of the top 2 spots in the East, and therefore, I would say they’ll have to eventually win on the road if they want to advance further in the playoffs…

And again, you’re talking about veteran teams that are sitting in front of the Hawks. The Hawks still have several young peices on the team that have MUCH ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT. Therefore, I don’t buy this argument that the only way for the Hawks to improve would be to turn the team upside down and trade for vets..

4 of the 5 starters from last season are all under the age of 25. I would think they have some room to improve on their games. An additional year of playoff experience only makes these youngsters hungrier and smarter. They’re ceilings are a bit higher as of now than that of guys like Garnett or Shaq…

Give them a chance…the season isn’t even close to startin and most of yall counting them out already.

It’s not about what you do in the offseason, it’s about what you do on the court throughout the season.

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Ariose is on my wavelength today…well, except about Josh . I know I have the rep around here for being a Smoove-hater, and I can live with that, but I’ve mellowed on my criticism of him during the past year.

I’m glad he’s working with the other Smith. It hasn’t been mentioned yet, but Steve was one of the best post-up guards in the NBA during his career, and maybe the best guard at backing down his man and then passing out of the double team. If he can teach Josh how to do that, I would be thrilled.

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Daniel…. its a done deal…just a matter of the terms…I wish It wasn’t, but let’s now focus on a quality big!

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PS, hadn’t seen this one yet:
http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2009/jul/02/new-deal-a-slow-process-for-marvin/

A new contract for Marvin Williams isn’t likely to be wrapped up any time soon…

Marvin Sr. said that his son and agent Jim Tanner will meet with the Hawks on Tuesday [THAT'S TOMORROW] in Washington DC. He said the Hawks did give his son a one-year qualifying offer. It would bump his $5.5 million salary up by more than $1.5 million.

Marvin Sr. guessed that something would be done by the end of July.

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That’s an encouraging article you posted Nire.

Well it’s encouraging depending on if you wanna keep Marvin around or get rid of him..

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Nire, Good find lol

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Niremetal,

GREAT FIND!! YOU ARE TAKING OVER FOR SEKOU!!

I am starting to appreciate the “slow hand” that Sund is using in negotiating F/A this year. One thing that noone has mentioned in detail is that Sund must be considering NEXT year, while planning for this year. JJ and Horford will be up next year. Overpaying for talent this year will cost the Hawks next year, if they want to keep JJ and Horford or make a move for one of the big 3 for next year- D. Wade, Lebron, Bosh.

Being a GM must be akin to playing chess. You must consider the consequences of each move. Sometimes you may have to pass on taking a queen, if it means CHECK MATE for YOU.

“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends!”

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The Hawks starters should be, Horford, Johnson, Smith, Crawford and Williams. All others off the bench. This team at less will go to the finals.

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Still trying to figure out the statement about Smith getting credit for being 2nd leading scorer on a 47-win team and previous statements about one-dimensional offense (iso-Joe) and dire need for an offensive coordinator. Maybe I need more caffeine.

The Hawks offense works. Our losses come when we fail to rebound well and defend. It may not have a cute name or look pretty but it is effective (I think top 10 in offense efficiency) and efficient (one of the top teams in fewest TOs). And that is why I’m not happy that we have not yet addressed the areas that mostly led to our doom… our inability to defend the paint (starting with stopping guys from getting easily into the paint) and rebounding the ball. But seemingly, we look to have a more dynamic offense, which is good, because we may have problems stopping the other team from scoring.

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Is Andersen better than Mark Gasol? Didn’t they play in the same league?

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Sekou is wrong as rain when he says that JJ will draw big bucks in free agency. He will earn the most staying right where he is. I cannot think of a team that gets better by paying him big bucks. None; well, maybe Phoenix but they weren’t willing to pay him big then and will not be willing to now, in my opinion. He has made a place for himself in Atlanta and would be nuts to leave if they are willing to pay him in a fashion similar to the past.

If I’m Atlanta, and I am willing to pay top dollar to anyone it would be Bosh. If I got Bosh, I’d let JJ go.

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Andersen seems to be a similar player to Okur from Utah. If he’s close to the player of Okur, grab him up.

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OBRIEN,

That’s just 16mil per. He makes 15mil now. That would not be an incentive for him to forgo his F/A status next year.

“I don’t always watch basketball, but when I do, I prefer the Hawks. Stay thirsty my friends!”

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And TMIHFITW…is that you MannyT?

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the lakers, san antonio, portland, denver, clev, orlando, boston. i think that this will be one of the BEST basketball seasons in the past 25 yrs!! the league needed this hype and then next year the biggest free agency in N.B.A. history.

N.B.A. where amazin’ happens!!

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You better not shout, you better not cry…

Garret Siler’s coming to town.

Feel better about taking Gladyr now, I hope? Now we have the rights to Gladyr AND are bringing to camp the best big man available from that portion of the draft.

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Joe will serve as a consolation proize for teams that fail to land LeBron or Wade. And (in a more likely scenario) Joe may very well be offered a deal to play with another All-Satr player. Lastly, I could definitely see the Cavs using the vacated salary slots of Shaq and Z to try to add Joe to LeBron. Let’s face it, LeBron will demand an elite wing-man on the team that signs him to a long-term deal. And Joe is exactly the type of multi-dimensional/proven All-Star that LeBron could use. The smart move would be to try and extend him this summer.

The one and only (in my estimation) good thing about the Crawford acquisition is that we have someone to move in if Joe moves out.

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