Psycho-T brings the pain

Tyler Hansbrough didn't leave anything on the floor after his workout with the Hawks Sunday morning.

Tyler Hansbrough didn't leave anything on the floor after his workout with the Hawks Sunday morning at Philips Arena. The rugged North Carolina forward is a a player to keep an eye on this week with the Hawks drafting 19th in Thursday's NBA draft.

HAWKSVILLE - The reviews were unanimous.

On 10-point scale, Tyler Hansbrough’s Sunday morning workout for the Hawks at Philips Arena ranks at the very top of anything conducted in the past five days.

It wasn’t any one thing in particular that had the Hawks’ coaches buzzing. It was everything. Hansbrough’s energy, effort and obviously better-than-advertised shooting and athleticism caught more than a few folks in attendance by surprise.

“He kicked the meter up. It was off the Richter Scale,” said Hawks assistant coach Larry Drew, who ran the team’s workouts all week. “That was one of those 8.0s, one of those quick, hard earthquakes. Because his energy is at another level. You just don’t see many players capable of playing with that type of energy and effort and can sustain it through a game, or even a workout. He plays at a totally different level than some of these young guys out here.”

I felt like I needed an ice bath after watching his 90-minute workout. But Hansbrough proved a theory that a wise Eastern Conference executive reiterated to me Sunday night, “effort is a skill in the NBA.” And Hansbrough has it in reserve.

Alade Aminu (Stephenson High and Georgia Tech) and Shawn Taggart (Memphis) were the other bigs on hand Sunday. And they were also impressive in the individual drills and two-on-two work that was done. But Hansbrough’s refusal to go at anything but full bore during the entire workout had everyone buzzing afterwards.

Love him or hate him, and Hansbrough laughed about the fact that he’s inspired the masses to do either one or the other and sometimes both, he’s going to do it his way. And the truth is the Hawks could do a lot worse with the 19th pick. But they probably won’t have to worry about Hansbrough there, as I haven’t spoken to anyone anywhere that believes he’ll still be on the board when the Hawks are on the clock Thursday night.

“If this kid is still there at 19, the Hawks better not hesitate,” another Eastern Conference executive told me Sunday afternoon. “The kid’s a dream for coaches in our league, because he’s going to come in and crank things up automatically. He’s just wired differently than most of these other guys.”

That’s the real problem with a pick that late. You can project who you think might be there and evaluate accordingly, but there’s no way of knowing who will be around by then on draft night. One glitch on the draft board in the early lottery can swing the draft in a totally different direction than projected.

The Hawks sent things sideways in 2004 when they took Josh Childress ahead of Luol Deng and Andre Iguodala – defying most mock drafts that had those other two guys going ahead of Childress.

And anytime one player rises and is picked ahead of projection, someone else falls and lands in the lap of an unsuspecting team like the Hawks (who have no doubt done their due diligence throughout this process by examining all the possibilities).

 

DaJuan Summers is my sleeper pick for the draft. Too bad he didn't get a chance to workout for the Hawks while he was in town last week (a sprained ankle sidelined him).

DaJuan Summers is my sleeper pick for the draft. Too bad he didn't get a chance to workout for the Hawks while he was in town last week (a sprained ankle sidelined him).

Check any mock draft you want and go over the list of names where the Hawks are picking and there are either guys you draft on potential (Wake Forest’s Jeff Teague, who acquitted himself well in his workout Saturday, or Ohio State’s BJ Mullens, who did the same a day earlier) or seasoned college guys that will be needle pushers as rookies (guys like Hansbrough, Pitt’s Sam Young, Louisville’s Terrence Williams and Georgetown’s DaJuan Summers, all of whom the Hawks have had face time with throughout the process).

The usual anxiety surrounding the Hawks at draft time doesn’t really seem necessary this year, at least the way I see it.  The Hawks’ heavy lifting is going to come in free agency – and that’s where Hansbrough and all the bigger guys on the short list I’ve detailed above come in handy. Follow me now. When the Hawks lost Josh Childress to Greece last summer, they didn’t have a ready replacement for a 6-8 guy with his skills and seasoning, mostly because they didn’t have a draft pick to use on a player of that ilk. Say, for the sake of my theory, that the Hawks are unable to keep all their free agents. Don’t you think another cat with size and versatility might come in handy next season, even if he’s just a situational rotation player as a rookie?

While I didn’t agree with the notion that drafting 6-8 to 6-9 players ever year now matter what would lead a team from 13-win seasons to the playoffs, I can see the wisdom in taking players that fit that mold if you’re in the best-player-available mode on draft night and picking outside of the lottery. It’s just wise to have your roster well-stocked with a couple Trevor Ariza/Mickael Pietrus/Linas Kleiza types. I think the entire league realizes that now after the playoffs. 

FROM THE DO YOUR HOMEWORK FILES …

A quick aside from the Hawks-themed portion of the program requires us to look across the pond fro a moment.

Flooding Europe with scouts from every NBA team has finally caught up to the league and to the crop of talent. The Euro harvest is expected to be extremely thin Thursday night.

Jonathan Abrams of the New York Times had a staggering statistic in his story about the sudden change in philosophy regarding drafting European (and really international) prospects:

   “Teams appear to be straying from the recent trend of drafting overseas players because many of them have not lived up to expectations. Of the 39 international players selected in the first round since 2002 with no prior experience playing in the United States, only Yao Ming has surfaced as an All-Star. In that same time, 14 of 171 American players drafted in the first round made at least one All-Star team.”

Math was never my best subject in school, but I know crazy numbers when I see them. And that’s craziness.

OTHER LASTING IMPRESSIONS WERE MADE DURING WORKOUT WEEK, including a stellar showing by a guy not getting any first round buzz. Keep LSU combo guard Garrett Temple in mind in the second round. He’s going to make someone a nice player wherever he is drafted (provided he is drafted, and if not, he’ll be a good free agent pick up for some team). I remember watching him shut J.J. Redick down at the Georgia Dome during LSU’s run to the Final Four a few years back. He’s got NBA height for his position but his frame is need of some bulk to stand up the type of pounding he could endure at the pro level. But he’s got every tool you want in a player and he’ll compete with anyone.

Another guy the Hawks had in that made an impression me was Lester Hudson, a 6-3, 200-pound bull from Tennessee-Martin that refused to let anyone slow him down in his workout. He’s the kind of feisty guard that NBA teams love to have coming off their bench to wreak havoc on opposing defenses and to harass opposing point guards. And you talk about a guy breaking down walls to reach his goals, tell me Hudson hasn’t done exactly that after reading this from my man Chris Low from ESPN.com. 

"Fearless" seems like the most appropriate way to describe Lester Hudson's game.

Fearless seems like an appropriate description of Lester Hudson's game.

Jonesboro’s Toney Douglas (Florida State) was by far the most tenacious defender in attendance all week. He didn’t miss an opportunity to mix it up in the drills I watched. I can see why folks have been gushing about him as a potential, Ben Gordon-like combo guard. But he’s a defender like Gordon wishes he was (granted, few guards this size on the planet can score from the distance and in the variety of ways Gordon does). Still, whatever team nabs Douglas on draft night will have happy coaches and fans that will appreciate his in-your-face style.

Summers is my sleeper pick for the draft. I got into a heated debate with my man JB “Beans” Beckett Sunday about Summer and Young. After watching some film clips of both, including some of their head-to-head matchup from the season, we agreed that we were both right and that Summer and Young have a chance to contribute as rookies wherever they go. Now if we could just convince someone to let us draft for them Thursday night.

All joking aside, I have no earthly idea what happens Thursday night. Who does?

Too much can swing things on draft night. And we didn’t even get into the all the crazy scenarios that could happen if the Hawks were to find the right package to move the pick (and whatever else necessary) to shore up their depth issues at certain positions.

Nothing is outside of the realm of possibility right now, my friends. Nothing at all.

803 comments Add your comment

niremetal

June 22nd, 2009
12:32 am

Sounds like the Hawks like the UNC folks. I could live with either Hansborough or Ellington – both give us depth and something we lack coming off the bench (energy and toughness in the frontcourt with Hansborough and a deadly shooter in Ellington). Not bad for a #19 pick. And it’s better than Sund’s history of picking risky 7 footers ;)

KC

June 22nd, 2009
12:45 am

BJ Mullens will likely be available. I wouldn’t be mad about that pick at all.

darrell starks

June 22nd, 2009
1:05 am

Like i said on the other blog when scouting and nba sometime we get caught up in the scoring avg in college and dont look at the style of play for example iggy of philly was a horrible shooter in college but you new his style of play was going to be something speciall in the nba and thats how i feel about terrence william.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!

cp

June 22nd, 2009
1:35 am

Terrance Williams reminds me of Iguodala. Once he improves his jumper he could be scary. I like Ellington over Hansborough but like it was stated I doubt Hansborough is even there when we pick. Man with guys like Teague, Ellington, Young , Brown, and maybe Clark who could all be there at 19 its just going to be crazy. Hudson, Meeks, or Danny Green in the second sounds good to me. I wish we had 2 second rounders to get 2 of the 3 guys.

Ed-Covington

June 22nd, 2009
1:49 am

In your article on Ellington, you state that the 19th pick is where most mock drafts have him going. Your own mock draft has him at 29 to LAL; wouldn’t 19 be a reach for a #2 to back up JJ?

The Truth

June 22nd, 2009
2:15 am

The problem I have with Hansbrough has less to do with him; it has more to do with the Hawks. It’s well known that the Hawks has a tweener starting frontline. We need compliment players that can offset our weaknesses. Hansbrough is a PF/C in a SF body which makes him a tweener also. Also his game makes him a tweener also because he plays the game with his back toward the basket (like a center) in a SF body. As good as he looks in drills, I doubt if he could get his shots off against NBA defenders in the paint. Do we really need another tweener? WE NEED TO STOP THIS MADNESS OF OVERLOOKING OUR TEAM MAKEUP AND RANDOMLY PICKING PLAYERS BASED ON MEDIA HYPE. A child is not going to touch fire but once and realize to stay away. How many times are we going to get burnt at the draft party? Hansbrough may have the heart and that I don’t question, but he is not the body type we are looking for. If it’s a frontline player we are considering, we need NBA length and athleticism with skills that plays with an attitude. Didn’t we just witness the playoff finals?

BarkingBulldawg

June 22nd, 2009
3:12 am

Did we not learn with Shelden Williams that it takes more than effort and heart to succeed in the NBA? I do hope Hansborough is gone when we pick…because I will want to shoot myself if we take him. Ty Lawson is the only UNC player I would want us to go near, and of course, he is the one we haven’t worked out. The closer it gets to draft day, the more I feel like we are going to botch this. Heck, I almost expect it, and that is just sad considering the exactly opposite feelings I hold towards Falcons mgmt.

I’m really gonna be scratching my head if we go anywhere other than PG which seems more and more likely with the workouts. But we SHOULD all know that we can’t truly progress and move forward until Woody is gone, so I guess there have been more crucial drafts. It really is hard to get too excited about anything Hawks-related with this dunce at the helm.

And Dear God, help Rick Sund perform better than he has in the past. We could seriously do without another Saer Sene or Robert Swift. Thanks, Lord.

Ed

June 22nd, 2009
3:23 am

This is an interesting top five lists link rating the potential draftees in many different categories.

http://www.nbadraft.net/node/7629

Ed

June 22nd, 2009
4:12 am

Question Sekou…do you stand by your pick of W. Ellington as the Hawks pick?

Big Ray

June 22nd, 2009
5:22 am

Heh. Expected Doc to show up and start making noise about Hansbrough. Then again, when you think Yi is a better pick than Al (no Doc, I’m not letting you forget that one ;) )…

I’d be fine with Hansbrough, provided that 1)There’s not a better contributor available, and 2) We use him properly. Maybe I should just settle for using him AT ALL. Dude is definitely an energy guy with smarts and control. Hard to find that combination, as many energy types are out of control and have a hard time playing somewhat within the flow of the game. Of course, good coaching helps that, but that’s hard to find as well…

I like Ellington. Sweet stroke, but as Sekou says, can he defend his position? If he can’t, then he’s a situational guy at best (try not to follow Salim’s path, Wayne), and around here, that never is a good thing. Ask Mario and Royal….

I still like Ty Lawson, too. Fact is, he may have a better chance at falling than his two aforementioned teammates. Although, it’s a toss-up as to who stands a better chance at seeing significant minutes as a Hawks rookie, between him and Ellington. Depends on whether or not Bibby is re-signed.

Now, let’s say our turn on the clock comes, and both Hansbrough and Mullens are actually there (just a hypothetical). Which does Sund pick? How about if Hansbrough, Lawson, and Ellington are all there?

Alright, back to sleep…

Big Ray

June 22nd, 2009
5:29 am

The Truth,

Hansbrough is a bit of a ‘tweener indeed. What can I say, there appears to be a bit of a fetish along those lines in Hawksville. I say he’s a 4, no matter what. There are two many athletic 3s that will eat his ass up, so don’t play him there. Meanwhile, he has just enough height and strength (measures out essentially the same size as Horford, minus about 10 pounds), and more than enough desire, smarts, and tenacity to hang in down there. Again, it all depends on whether there is or isn’t a player who will help us more at that pick, and whether or not Sund and crew see it that way.

BarkingBulldawg,

Effort, heart, desire. These things do not belong in the same sentence with Sheldon Williams. Try lost, bad footwork, and a negative vertical. Hansbrough is everything from the neck-up that you’d want Sheldon to be. Sheldon just ain’t…and he’ll probably be the first guy to get jacked at a barber shop in Minnesota…

akintu

June 22nd, 2009
6:59 am

We are missing the boat again……….we draft a 4 when we have 3 people in the starting line up (well maybe two…I often exagerate) who’s best position is probably the 4 when we have other glaring needs….it makes absolutely no sense…..If the hawks are really looking to move Marvin (I think this is a bad move BTW) then I think DeJuan Summers is a smart pick because Joah can’t play the 3, he can’t shoot and isn’t a good enough on ball defender.

the only way we should draft a 2 is if we move JJ (I think we should move him, but that probably won’t happen). If we move Josh then we could draft a 4 or better yet move Al “could be an all-star PF” Horford to the 4 and between the draft and FA find a legit 5 that can fill out the line up.

lastly I think we should let Bibby walk so in reality taking anything other than a PG who can start in the NBA is a mistake!!!

The Truth

June 22nd, 2009
7:21 am

Ray
So website got Hansbrough listed at 6’ 8’’ @ 234 lbs. with not enough wing-span to make up for his lack of size at the 4 position. Accordingly, he struggles defending taller and more athletic players even at the college level. I’m trying to image him going up against the likes of KG. If I had just 1 first-round bullet, I would not be shooting at Hansbrough. I still believe this article is a Jedi thing Sekou wrote to create a smoke screen and throw the draft order off to enable something really good to fall to the Hawks.

doc

June 22nd, 2009
7:22 am

hmmm, short nap.

doc

June 22nd, 2009
7:33 am

this isnt a raving positive review of hansbrough but how i described him earlier to ray:

“maybe hansbrough is a cross between what we could get from a mixture of chills and zaza in the hansbrough pick, not what we had in chills. unfortunately, he is not the best of both but maybe enough of the positives of both to be worth the chance on an early contributor. he doesnt have the quickness or length of chills nor the versatility and doesnt have the bulk of zaza but enough to go for it.

we are where we were when we picked shels in depth on the roster sadly enough so we got to get it right. man that is a reality check we might be even worse off than then except for horford but really less depth and organic growth potential, heh heh.”

hansbrough is a tweener but a good one. he has a better motor than shels, if shels had that kind of energy he would have stayed, too many times i saw him refuse or it fail to compute that if he moved quicker to something like the loose ball or someone coming off a screen he might have been a real contributor. complacency was his problem and that is not hansbrough’s.

Sekou Smith

June 22nd, 2009
7:35 am

That mock draft you are referring to is two weeks old. I’ll have a new one in Thursday’s paper. And I’ll roll with my pick in that one.

And BarkingBulldawg made the inevitable Shelden Williams comparison to Hansbrough, which I don’t see at all. They are totally different players and were in college. More importantly, no one is talking about taking Hansbrough in the top five. Granted, no one other than the Hawks would have dared to take Shelden in the top five either.

I just think at 19 you can’t be mad with a guy that’s going to come in and be a rotation player. If you get an All-Star down there, it’s usually blind luck anyway.

dap01

June 22nd, 2009
7:49 am

Thanks for the great work, Sekou!

yessir

June 22nd, 2009
8:27 am

hot off the press, Speedy(contract),R.Morris, and 19th pick for Camby. I said it firt. Its being discussed Sekou, what do you think?

doc

June 22nd, 2009
8:30 am

yessir, you can come by my house any day and pick up my trash. it will only cost you maybe 1 mil and it is a deal. you can write it off next year on your taxes as a bad investment.

answer is … doubt it.

Paul

June 22nd, 2009
8:31 am

If we can someone trade up in the 2nd round and nab Toney Douglas as our 2nd player drafted, we will have a heckuva draft.

doc

June 22nd, 2009
8:32 am

you know when are these “said it first” guys going to come back and say well you know when i said this … well i confess, it never came to pass.

G-Man

June 22nd, 2009
8:59 am

Guys Lester Hudson sounds like a huge steal to me in the second round. He can shoot the ball with good effeciency all the way to the nba three. He can play defense well with his freakish 6′9 wingspan. He is great at stealing the ball posting 2.3 steals a game. He has good court vision and is great with his dribble-drive penetration and kick out to the open man. Also for a 6′3 combo guard he averages 8 rebounds a game posting many games of more than 10 boards. If all this isn’t enough to convince you he has posted a Quadruple double. 25 pts, 12 rebounds, 10 assists, and 10 steals.
You guys need to check out how impressive his game log is

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=37439

I know all this was done in a weaker division but you have to admit those are impressive numbers anywhere you go.

yessir

June 22nd, 2009
9:04 am

Doc, never said it was going to happen, but they are discussing it

Samuel

June 22nd, 2009
9:05 am

Hansbrough is not athletic enough to guard an NBA three and not big enough to guard a 4. He’s also not a good offensive player. I just don’t see it at 19 and especially for a team looking to “upgrade” our talent. A 6′8″ Mario maybe but we really don’t need that. We need somebody who can put the ball in the “hole”.

Yes, he is different from “The Slumlord” but also simular. Sheldon was a great College player and was considered an “effort guy” and an overachiever. That only takes you so far in the NBA.

Utah is the best place for him.

Bobby Cox is DONE!!!!!!

June 22nd, 2009
9:13 am

Sekou, any chance of Childress or Andersen suiting up for the Hawks this season, and if not, any chance that Sund can trade their rights Thursday night for another pick or two.

This team could get exponentially better with Childress, Andersen and point guard added to the mix.

G-Man

June 22nd, 2009
9:17 am

Hey guys, Cavs want to move up in the draft. We could take their 30th pick and snag Toney Douglas and also their 46th pick. In return they can aquire our 19th pick. So we get the person everyone seems to want us to get along with 2 second round picks.

Sekou Smith

June 22nd, 2009
9:19 am

The deal for Camby would be done already. That’s a no-brainer for the Hawks. NO-BRAINER!!!!!!!!!! As for Childress and Andersen, I’d think there’s a better chance Andersen plays for the Hawks this season than Childress. And I’m not betting on either guy being here.

Bobby Cox is DONE!!!!!!

June 22nd, 2009
9:33 am

Why are we not chasing Andersen, it makes no sense. This guy is a near 7 footer with actual offensive skill. Are the Hawks simply scared to actually have a big man with talent? It boggles the mind.

Also, on Childress, are we at least exploring options to move his rights? I know that the spitting and cigarette smoking in the arenas is wearing on him, and he will come back to the NBA soon. It will be a shame, but typical Hawk move to let him go with nothing in return.

What is going on behind the scenes with Bibby? His agent does not actually believe they will get $10 per year, does he? Been hanging out with Josh Howard? A 33 year-old with shot knees who cannot run the break or defend ANYONE is not worth more than $3-5 per. Could we get him at that by giving an extra year?

doc

June 22nd, 2009
9:42 am

samuel, sounds like a description of mo at his position of swing 2 and 3. cant score well enough for the two and cant keep up with the three’s on defense because he is limited physically. he does play a role and that is all one wants from a 19, so hansbrough fits the bill in that respect. who would be starters at 19, very few come along?

as i said above again, i recognize the flies around him but picking at 19 means there are flies around everyone. he has a lot more skill than mario as well and would prefer douglas to fill that bill if i could get my hands on him somehow and someway. to compare him in any way with shels as sekou says is unfair as shels showed no motor, nor skill and no desire. you can give hansbrough a plus on two of the three and c plus on the other. if he can play defense, which he will, he will fit.

O'Brien

June 22nd, 2009
9:43 am

Sekou,

Do you think the Hawks would be willing to make a deal (Acie, Speedy, 19) to move up?

And if they are able to move up (let’s say 8-15), who do you think they might be looking at?

Astro Joe

June 22nd, 2009
9:52 am

It’s kind of sad that the Hawks were blown away by Hansborough. I think it speaks to the lack of fire that exists on the club. I know some of the guys are capable of bringing it hard but it feels like the staff is amazed when they watch a guy who ALWAYS brings it. Anyone who has that fire in his belly (like Hansborough or Douglas) is the type of guy I want. Instead of best available player, give me the most fire in the belly player at #19.

Sautee

June 22nd, 2009
9:55 am

doc,

“hmmm, short nap.”

Just what I was thinking. LOL!

Mike is back

June 22nd, 2009
9:56 am

Sekou, I wouldn’t be mad at the pick, but I would go with Ellington if he’s still there. Besides, I think you can get the same thing from Sutan out of Michigan State in the second round…maybe not the energy but a solid rotation guy.

It is time to draft one of these 6’11” or 7-foot guys, and bring in someone in to develop them. If you are going to gamble on Big with the 19th pick, this draft is a good one to do it…else we run the risk of adding to the duplicity, which already exist.

U know I think the world of Sam Young and I have much respect for Hansbrough…but if you are the Hawks, you can’t draft another SF or PF…its time do something different. We have Al…Now it time to go with another Big.

Of course I don’t what the tone of the negotiations are with Bibby…if things are cold or luke warm…then I see a taking a PG with the 19th…save for that I’m taking the Best big with the most upsides still on the board with the 19th. No need to reach in this draft…too many ?????????????????? marks.

dap01

June 22nd, 2009
9:57 am

We should use Speedy, Childress to move up in the 2nd to pick Douglas. We should explore bringing Anderson over. He can shoot. We should not overpay for Bibby (he would be a great role player).

Ellington sounds impressive.

niremetal

June 22nd, 2009
10:10 am

Why are we not chasing Andersen, it makes no sense. This guy is a near 7 footer with actual offensive skill. Are the Hawks simply scared to actually have a big man with talent? It boggles the mind.

Gee, I don’t know. Maybe it could have something to do with the fact that every single scouting report says that he’s godawful on defense. We don’t need a 6′11 who can shoot jumpers. We need a 6′11 guy who can defend. If my choice is between re-signing Zaza and going after a slower, less consistent, and even worse (far worse) on defense version of Okur, I take Zaza every time.

HAWKMAN

June 22nd, 2009
10:10 am

LATER FOR ALL THAT GOOD TEAM CRAP DUMP. M.BIBBY, F.MURRY, RESIGN ZAZA,M.WILLIAMS. PICK UP TOO PLAYERS WHO WILL MAKE THE HAWKS A CHAMPINSHIP TEAM. A.I AND R.WALLACE. FORM DETROIT. STARTING 5. PG AI. SG J.JOHNSON. SF J.SMITH PF A.HORTFORD. C R.WALLACE. WITH M.WILLIAMS AS THE 6 MAN BRING HIS SCORING TO THE SECOND UNIT. WHICH ALSO HAVE ZAZA. M.EVANS.AND WHOMEVER THE 19TH PICK BRINGS. A PG. MAYBE TO ADD TO THE BENCH. WITH M.WEST. AND S.JONES IF WE CAN RESIGN HIM AT A COOL PRICE. OR ANOTHER VET. THAT A 10 TO 11 PLAYER DEEP TEAM.

niremetal

June 22nd, 2009
10:12 am

That being said, we should make some use of Andersen – but that use should be trading him to a team that could and would use him.

niremetal

June 22nd, 2009
10:13 am

A Tribe Called Quest

June 22nd, 2009
10:20 am

Great, let’s only post what the UNC afficionado Larry Drew has to say. I’m sure his comments are very unbiased too.

No thanks to Hansbrough. I don’t want some undersized Shelden Williams stiff who looks weird on our team again

swatguy

June 22nd, 2009
10:23 am

I would like to see the Hawks sign Zaza, Flip, Chillz and Anderson. Deal the parts such as Marvin( SnT), Acie and Speedy. Renounce Bibby and everyone else on the bench named not Hunter and West.
Three picks in the draft (Ellison, Hansbrough and Hudson). Oh, and sign a point (Sessions or Miller).

By the way, I hope “Rio is shooting 3’s right now and all day.

Sekou, with Bibs defensive shortcomings, we can use a cheaper pair of combo’s + Chillz at the point.
How is Levingston’s rehab?

Melvin

June 22nd, 2009
10:25 am

Sekou,
I guess you and your friend Beans must have read my post on your last blog in regards to Dejuan Summers. I agree that he’s a sleeper and wouldn’t mind seeing him in Hawks uniform next season. We could even trade down b/c most mocks have him going in mid 20’s to early 2nd round. If he’s available in the 2nd then the Hawks should move up to select him. I rather have Summers on the bench then RandMo, Mario, Gadner and Hunter.
However, if Terrence Williams is available at #19, I would go with him. 6′6 guy that can handle the rock, pass and create off the dribble. He’s cut from the Scottie Pippen cloth. I can see him being a Point Forward with JJ and Bibby (if resigned) spotting up on the wings for jumpers.
If the Hawks doesn’t select a PG in the 1st rnd then I would like to see them pick Curtis Jerells (think Acie with a jumpshot) in the 2nd round…

As for Wayne Ellington, I can’t help but think Rodney Monroe who play for NC State in the 90’s. Any spot in the gym was in his range. Neither guy is that effective off the dribble but they are deadly off of screens….

LEA

June 22nd, 2009
10:32 am

great, we will pick another tweener who can’t guard big men, and continue to ignore the fact that we need a PG who can actually play defense. and a big man who could at least give Dwight some problems.. I’m not surprised at all though, the Hawks will never get it right.. And will sign Bibby to a 11 million dollar per year contract, ignoring the fact that he is old and doesn’t play any defense…

The Truth

June 22nd, 2009
10:36 am

Now that I think about it. With the exception of BK, the talent evaluators for the Hawks are still in place. Nothing has really changed except for the GM replacement. So, maybe we are operating in the insanity mode right now of doing the same thing with these illogical picks and expecting a different result. Let’s hope the Sund factor will bring some common sense to the madness. Right now, in my book, Sund is batting 50% with his last-year pick-ups. I’ll also deduct another 10% for several of his inactions so that equals a batting Avg. of 40%. Therefore I should tweak my expectation down somewhat to match his hitting Avg. We shall see

Astro Joe

June 22nd, 2009
10:37 am

How is it that a guy who was DPOY in a conference like the ACC AND has a tremendous shooting stroke (good enough to be compared to Ben Gordon) isn’t getting more love?

Melvin, I agree, the Hawks ver rarely set weak-side screens (although they should), so I’m not sure Ellington would fit this team. Playing “Point Forward” is challenging when you’re coming off the bench. And even if we don’t bring back Marvin, I don’t think that we can start Joe, T. Williams, Josh and Al together. That is a very, very small team.

mrprozach

June 22nd, 2009
10:40 am

NBA draft.net has a new mock up. They have the hawks taking Jrue Holliday at 19. Teague and Hansborough are off the board in their draft. But Ellington and Buddinger would still be available. Thoughts on picking a Eric Snow type PG at 19? http://www.nbadraft.net/2009mock_draft

LEA

June 22nd, 2009
10:44 am

I was always a big fan of Eric Snow’s game, so I wouldn’t be upset with that pick.. Hell I’d rather pick Bj Mullens before I draft Tyler…

UGA

June 22nd, 2009
10:52 am

Hansbrough may be a Jeff Foster in this league (which I would take)

I’d be fine if the Hawks took Ellington with the pick.

doc

June 22nd, 2009
10:53 am

sautee ….. chuckle.

Daniel

June 22nd, 2009
11:08 am

Astro Joe- I hope that Toney doesn’t get any more love, and the Hawks can land him in the second round. What a steal that guy will be. Hollinger doesn’t even have Toney Douglas getting drafted?!?
Hansbrough and Douglas in the same draft class? Two seniors with great defensive passion, energy and high basketball IQ, the Hawks could do a lot worse. Although, I still hope that we can get a point at 19(lawson)

I.MUS WRITE- INTERNATIONAL MAN OF MYSTERY

June 22nd, 2009
11:18 am

Lester Hudson -looks like a good pick….kinda reminds me of Russel Westbrook with a better jumper. Give me ty Lawson or danny green if we have to go the UNC route………… Pshycho T….Puleez

Sekou Smith

June 22nd, 2009
11:22 am

I think the Hawks would be willing to use 19 and Speedy to make a deal O’Brien, but not to move up in the draft. Use them to move out of the draft and get a player. This isn’t the kind of draft I’d be moving up in unless things go haywire on draft night and you think you can get a cat that’s dropping like it’s hot. Otherwise, you move out and snag a real player (Ray went off on this on the last blog, I believe).

I can see why people are hesitant on Toney Douglas Joe, he’s never really played the point and he’s too short to project at shooting guard (dude is right around 6-foot but a ferocious competitor). Teams are going to be cautious about a guy they think might be a tweener at that spot with so many PG-types in the draft.

And lay off Larry Drew my man Tribe. He’s always runs the Hawks’ workouts and he always tells it like it is. He doesn’t sugar coat anything for anybody.

Melvin

June 22nd, 2009
11:25 am

Astro,

How is playing T.Williams (6′6) along side JJ and Bibby is any different than playing Flip(6′2) and Evans (6′5)? Especially, if he can create his own shot….

coachx

June 22nd, 2009
11:30 am

Just for the record, Hansbrough measured 6′9.5” for the official the predraft measurement. That is legit PF size. His verticle was measured at 34” which is pretty darn good for a dude who’s is a hair under 6′10”.

I agree on the David Anderson sentiments as well. He would help us a ton.

A Tribe Called Quest

June 22nd, 2009
11:32 am

My bad Sekou. I love Larry Drew, but I’d love to see what these other coaches have to say about the UNC players. I think out of all schools, UNC is the one that will get the most favorable reviews for its players at workouts just because it’s UNC.

And I stand by what i said: do not let that stiff Hansbrough in here. Get the best possible point guard, resign ZaZa, and sign another big or the superstar Solomon Jones

Hawksfanatic

June 22nd, 2009
11:33 am

All this talk of comparing Hansbrough and Shelden has me thinking, Sekou has there been even the slightest discussion of bringing Shelden back on our team? The T-Wolves declined his option and is now an unrestricted free agent. Yea he is a bust for a Top 5 pick, but he can still be a rotational player. He also knows the “system” (if you can even call it that), about the only downside would be if there were people in the organization that didn’t like him (either Woodson or just players in general).

coachx

June 22nd, 2009
11:38 am

Enter your comments here

O'Brien

June 22nd, 2009
11:39 am

Thanks Sekou.

Although I have no idea what deals may be available, I would love to see the Hawks make a deal, because we know Speedy is not going to get any PT here, and in these economic times, his expiring contract should be valuable. If he is healthy, he can still play (situational) defense, and if he’s hurt, his insurance might cover the majority of his salary.

With the new mock draft on nbadraft.net, the Hawks taking Jrue Holliday, what do you guys think of his game?

Melvin

June 22nd, 2009
11:39 am

It wouldn’t surprise me if the Hawks trade out of the 1st round. Hopefully, we can get good value in return.

Reggie

June 22nd, 2009
11:44 am

Sekou

How would Jeff Teague fit with the hawks?

Astro Joe

June 22nd, 2009
11:48 am

Melvin, not much different. What would be different is that most point forwards are guys who need to play 30+ minutes and get into the flow of the game. I’m thinking about guys like Diaw, Billy Owens, Kukoc, Pippen, Hedu… all of those guys were/are more effective when they are in the center of things. I think it would be hard to project Williams as being able to play 30+ minutes as a SF with a small PF playing next to him. The small line-up that you mentioned is rarely on the floor for more than a short spurt. Can Williams be the lead distributor for the second unit? Sounds good in theory, I just don’t know if it would happen in reality.

Sekou, I hear you. But just call him a guard and let him defend the PG position (better than most) and bury open jumpers (better than most). How can that be a bad thing?

newkid

June 22nd, 2009
11:57 am

If Sund and Woody continue to be stuck on the ‘retro Detroit’ formula, could Ellington be to the Hawks what Rip Hamilton was (is) to the Pistons? Hawks don’t currently have a player on the roster who can duplicate Rip’s offensive role in Detroit. Roy Williams effectively used Ellington in a similar fashion at Carolina. Players of that ilk need not be terribly athletic (e.g., Ray Allen), but must be dead-eye shooters coming off screens, and willing to run all day. Moving JJ down to the 3-spot when Ellington is on the court could give opposing teams a difficult look to defend in 3-5 minute spurts.

Daniel

June 22nd, 2009
12:16 pm

Sekou-
what are you thoughts on what they might get for the 19th pick and Claxton?

Big Ray

June 22nd, 2009
12:19 pm

Newkid,

No. We don’t set nearly enough screens even for Joe or Bibby. Ellington wouldn’t have a chance at Rip Hamilton-like status. You can count on one hand how many guys on this team consistently set solid screens. And you’ll only really need two fingers….

Astro Joe,

I certainly understand the “fire in the belly” sentiment. Only, it doesn’t seem to have much value here in Hawksville. Mario arguably has the most fire, but how much burn does he get for his efforts? Exactly. Guess “skills” might have something to do with that. The last guy with that much fire was Chills, and we still miss him. I don’t think he’ll be back in a Hawks uni, either. Dammit, how do you lose an asset like that? Only Sund knows. Josh usually has that fire, but he loses it sometimes. I won’t go into why I think that is. Horford usually has it. The guys who have the least amount of fire are the ones who have the ball the most…except Marvin, who can’t seem to muster a single stinking spark some days.

We can complain about energy until we’re blue in the face. But let’s be honest: it’s not that highly valued.

Sekou,

Yes, I did go off on that subject. I STILL think the Hawks should trade the pick for a proven rotational contributor. Unfortunately, any such suggestions usually result in an attack by the bean counters. Ah, life in the blog…

A Tribe Called Quest

June 22nd, 2009
12:22 pm

We don’t need another 6″9 SF. OMG are you people freaking serious about all this?

We need a point guard and a freaking 7 foot center. Where the heck does getting a 6″8 shooter fit in our formula? We have 7 players on this team who can play SF

Big Ray

June 22nd, 2009
12:31 pm

The Truth,

DraftExpress has Hansbrough at 6′8.25″ without shoes, 6′9.5″ with shoes. His wingspan is 6′11.5″ and his standing reach is 8′11″. He checks in at 234.

Al Horford is exactly .25″ taller with shoes, has a wingspan exactly 1″ longer, and has the same standing reach, while weighing 12 more pounds. And he plays center in the NBA.

Hansbrough could use some bulking up, but he can play some PF in the NBA. I doubt anybody expects him to be a starter, but very likely a rotational player and fixture on some team. If he’s lacking in size, then somebody better send a memo to guys like Udonis Haslem, Drew Gooden, etc. So many PFs in the league came in with very similar measurements, some within a half inch or 2 pounds in either direction (higher or lower). Sheldon should have been a solid PF. The problem was from the neck-up. I don’t think Hansbrough has that issue AT ALL.

Again, I have no issue with the pick, provided that we’re not leaving a player on the board who can help us more.

newkid

June 22nd, 2009
12:32 pm

Ray, you’re assuming that because we don’t, we won’t. Not sure that’s an accurate assumption; not sure Washington and Detroit had Rip-like motion in their offenses prior to Hamilton’s arrival; not sure Boston had a profusion of screens in their offense geared to free a designated shooter just prior to Allen’s arrival (although that was a big part of there offense for decades). Future success will come more forthrightly to those who look ahead, as opposed to those who look at what exists today or existed yesterday and assume tomorrow will be nothing more than a replication. I know, I know, we’re talking about Woody here.

Big Ray

June 22nd, 2009
12:36 pm

Quest,

We’re not talking about picking in the lottery anymore, so it’s not as big of a deal. On the flip side, I am definitely hearing you on the pg thing. However, I’d rather have a proven young vet from the league (Jack or Sessions, or even the older Hinrich) than the 6 or 7th best pg in the draft (you know, the “leftovers”), who may try in vain to break his way into the playing rotation.

Besides all that, what 7-foot center that’s still available at #19 are you wanting? Hey, if all you want is a 7-footer, we can go back in time and get Priest Lauderdale. Or, we can scour the hills and valleys of Europe and recruit the tallest goat farmer we can find. Or we can pry Luke Schenser away from some fortunate team. Hey, is he still in the league?

kwooden1

June 22nd, 2009
12:40 pm

In terms of the draft if the http://www.nbadraft.net’s latest version holds true, I would draft Lawson before any of the guys above him. There wasn’t a guy in college that could stay in front of him. (he add 21 against Douglas) He can correct his shot and work on his range, but with his quickness he would be a steal at 19.

We actually have a lot of shooters right now, so I would again go over Lawson over Ellington. But if a big like Tyler H. or Mullens is available you have to go with them. I don’t think we’re going to get to much for Speedy’s contract or be able to work enough of our MLE to get a Big in free agency. (have to draft one!)

O'Brien

June 22nd, 2009
1:02 pm

And this is where Woody comes in. Does anyone feel confident that Woody can develop plays to maximize the skills of his players? If we get Ellington, screens would be good for him. But we hardly run any for JJ and Bibby as it is.

Rather than change his scheme to fit his players, Woody demands that his players fit into his system. Which wouldnt be so bad if he actually had some kind of system (iso JJ is not a system. JJ pound the ball then pass to Josh right inside the 3 point line with 4 seconds on the shot clock is not a system).

Big Ray

June 22nd, 2009
1:05 pm

Newkid,

Your last sentence pretty much nullified the entirety of the preceeding paragraph, LOL! Yeah, I get your point, and unlike some here, I will not suggest that you didn’t watch Hawks games. I agree that those who are looking ahead can make the necessary adjustments. We won’t go there. As I said, it seems that we don’t do enough for the shooters we DO have, much less any incoming ones.

A good coach has to get over what he has. A shooter/scorer is a shooter/scorer. You can either spend your time pissing and moaning about how he doesn’t play excellent defense, or doesn’t handle the ball well enough to run the point, or he wasn’t the guy you wanted in the draft, or whatever. You have to GET THE “F” OVER THAT, and find a way to exploit/maximize what he DOES give you.

That is what frustrates me about Bibby the most. He no longer has the speed and jab-step that he did before, that allowed him to create for himself. To best utilize him, we should have been throwing multiple screens to set him free. Dude only needs a half second, and that sweet stroke will straight up kill teams. But we just couldn’t seem to do it. Meanwhile, Joe is able to successfully play “keep away” against up to three defenders at a time (as long as he’s not caught along the baseline or sideline), so we practically set NO screens for him.

What in the hell are we going to do with a pure shooter like Ellington? Hey, I’m not hating on the player, or picking him. But you don’t pick a guy like that, expecting him to turn into a creator like Joe, or expecting him to shoot (accurately) over two defenders, 28 feet from the basket.

I won’t even blame it all on the coach. One of my obviously favorite players is also arguably the worst offender. That’s right, Josh Smith. His idea of running the pick and roll is to PRETEND like he’s going to set a screen, then slip it and flash towards the basket, leaving his teammate with two defenders who knew a screen wasn’t coming anyway. To make matters worse, he all too often doesn’t get the ball ANYWAY (but they’ll damn sure heave it to him when he’s hanging around the arc, won’t they).

So in conclusion, I counter your very accurate and valid comment with a question. If Woody (and his players) can’t run a solid screen for his two favorite players in the whole wide world (Joe and Bibby), then what rookie would rate such treatment, or even influence what HASN’T been done in the past 5 years?

If there’s not a major Sund hammer involved, I just don’t see it…

Big Ray

June 22nd, 2009
1:08 pm

O’brien,

You know, I think maybe if I hadn’t stopped for a restroom break, I MIGHT have beaten you to that post, LOL!!!

I agree completely, though my not-so-pent up frustration obviously got the better of me (hence the fact that I used a lot more verbage to get the point across).

Ramon

June 22nd, 2009
1:10 pm

The more I think about the draft, the more I like the idea of adding someone like Ellington above everyone else expected to be at the 19th spot. One thing I’m liking is the idea of when JJ or Marvin going out, still having someone come in off the bench who can still spread the defense. If the Hawks ever gets serious about allowing parts of the offense to run through Horford and Smoove on the blocks (which has proven to be the best offensive strategy thus far), then it will take the most shooters possible to be on the court at the same time to make defenses stay honest. The thing I liked about Ellington is he didn’t need the ball in hand to do his damage. And for all the good that Flip does, he’s not affective when he’s not creating for himself. I do think with a 6th man like Ellington, JJ would be able to rest longer.

I also will say that with the addition of Ellington, I would be willing to pay Chills more than Marvin. For the simple fact of remembering how valuable Chills always was when injuries came to the back court. Or if the team wants someone else on the bench I will bring up the name of Mike Miller again, and still stand behind the idea that his shooting off the bench would be wonderful.

Big Ray

June 22nd, 2009
1:10 pm

Kwooden1,

If going for a pg in the draft, I agree on Lawson. I don’t know about Holliday. He could be VERY good, but is he polished enough to even get PT here? Methinks not, unless he shows he can 1) defend his position, and 2) Hit the open shot from just about anywhere. And not necessarily in that order.

Still rooting for the acquisition of a young vet at pg, particularly as long as Woody is here.

Big Ray

June 22nd, 2009
1:13 pm

Ramon,

Good point. Now here’s a question for you. What about Thomas Gardner? That kid is NOT afraid to throw it up, and can score. He scored like a madman in the D-league, and hit some shots in actual NBA games where he was given adequate opportunity to shoot. Ellington has not taken one shot in either situation, as of yet. Is he better? Does he give us something that Garnder does not? Just asking.

jhan

June 22nd, 2009
1:14 pm

It’s very hard to decide who they should pick because I don’t know what their long term plans are for: Bibby, Flip, ZaZa, Chills, Law & Marvin.

If I knew those plans then I could create an effective draft strategy. I will never know those plans so I won’t waste my time.

I do believe that after seeing who they select I can make an educated guess on what their plans are for the UFA’s & RFA’s.

I can say that any of the UNC guys would work for me. I wouldn’t draft any centers in the first round except Mullens – I don’t even like him that much but we REALLY need size on this team so I’d take a flyer.

HawkKingBibby

June 22nd, 2009
1:18 pm

Enter your comments here

HawkKingBibby

June 22nd, 2009
1:20 pm

Isnt that all out intensity and fire exactly what Shelden Williams was ” supposed ” to bring to the Hawks?

O'Brien

June 22nd, 2009
1:26 pm

Ray

Great minds think alike LOL. I am also on the “get a young PG (Jack, Sessions or Hinrich) bandwagon”.

I agree about Thomas Gardner. Wasnt it the Cleveland game in the playoffs when we were getting blown out, and they brought Acie and Gardener in. And the Hawks subsequently went on a big run. I remember Hubie Brown saying the Cavs thought they would have to put starters back in the game. Acie was driving and dishing, Gardener was knocking down 3’s.

Astro Joe

June 22nd, 2009
1:36 pm

jhan, I agree completely with your 1:14 post.

newkid, I’ve never watched Ellington play. Is he as willing to defend as Rip? Because while Rip haws physical limitations, he certainly has the right defensive attitude.

Ray, the combination of basketball skills AND being “fiercely competitive” is what I meant. Finding a guy willing to go thru walls to earn a NBA paycheck is not that hard. Finding one with demonstrated basketball skills from a big-time conference (and is fearless), that’s another thing.

Bottom line, Douglas may be one of the few two-way players available at #19. A guy who can immediately contribute at both ends of the floor.

SWAT Native

June 22nd, 2009
1:36 pm

I sometimes think that the Hawks draft the same player over and over – the undersized PF that plays below the rim, good kid from a good school, good program: Adam Keefe, Alan Henderson, Sheldon Williams, and now we’re talking about Tyler Hansbrough.

What’s funny to me though, with all of the Tarheel love, so many people want to label Marvin Williams a bust and trade him after starting for several years, but think that the current crop of NC players that are maybe a year younger than Marvin are the answers to all the Hawks’ problems.

Astro Joe

June 22nd, 2009
1:44 pm

Every player who makes an NBA roster has some qualities that allow him to earn a paycheck. And those qualities may appear in a real game. But I kind of doubt that cats like Jeremy Richardson and Thomas Gardner are as consistent ro possess the same basketball-IQ as Wayne Ellington. I know that there have been examples of all 30 teams being wrong about a player (like Arenas or Redd) but I’ll always put my money on a cat like Ellington who is projected as a first rounder vs. the Jeremy Richardsons and Thomas Gardners of the world.

Rufus1

June 22nd, 2009
1:54 pm

Sekou

I would like Josh Heytvelt. He is 6′11 260lb, can shoot the 3 at 40%, a good shot blocker, a good athlete and is a good rebounder. I would prefer Hansbrough, But Heyvelt is NBA ready.

Big Ray

June 22nd, 2009
2:05 pm

So DraftExpress has us taking Teague, and NBADraft.net has us taking Ellington. I wonder which will prove to be more on target, or will both be way off?

Daniel

June 22nd, 2009
2:20 pm

I am not sure about Hansbrough as a Hawk, but I am sure that he is NOT Shelden Williams.

MannyT

June 22nd, 2009
2:34 pm

You draft wizards confuse me.

Seems like this draft is not as strong at the top, but has lots of guys that are ok. Consequently the late first round seems to be the hot spot. You get a player almost as good for a lot less money. So why all the trade up ideas. Let’s just take the best player available.

The ideas is that this player will hopefully contribute, but definitely not be a starter. I do not object to PsychoT, or Toney Douglas, or most of the guys you speak of as bench players. As long as we keep some basic thoughts about fit in mind.

If we get a center–his primary skills should be a defensive, lane clogging, sometimes flagrant foul earning nasty dude that can rebound.

If we get a PG–he should be able to apply defensive on ball pressure to make up for the lack of a lane clogging center.

If we get a wing player–he should be able to physically stand up to the type of SF you see in the east like LeBron, Hedu, & Pierce…kinda built like Marvin.

Side note, if we can get a shooter, it helps. I don’t care what position he plays. See Orlando for proof of that concept. I just hope we can find one that has an additional skill.

We get 2 shots at the draft, so I’m not overly worried. Just make sure Sund & Woody are on the same page so the guy gets a chance to play.

BWAF

Sautee

June 22nd, 2009
2:40 pm

Newkid,

about this: “Future success will come more forthrightly to those who look ahead, as opposed to those who look at what exists today or existed yesterday and assume tomorrow will be nothing more than a replication.”

You said a mouthful, bud. Wow.

If ONLY the BASG worked under that premise.

Astro Joe

June 22nd, 2009
2:40 pm

Chad Ford now has us taking Teague in 1st round and Marcus Thornton in 2nd round. And he has us choosing Teague over Maynor.

I really hope Sund does not select a scoring PG. We need a shooting PG, which is different from a scoring PG. Opposing teams can’t double Joe, Josh or Al with their PG if our PG is a tremendous shooter. But if our PG has to dribble in the lane and try to score over a big (or two), well, the opposing team will double our hot scorer all game long.

[...] old man was.. Not by a long shot. An another note.. Hansbrough had a good workout with the Hawks. Sekou Smith, AJC: “The reviews were unanimous. On 10-point scale, Tyler Hansbrough’s Sunday morning workout for the [...]

Ramon

June 22nd, 2009
2:42 pm

Big Ray, the thing I think that Ellington brings that Gardner doesn’t is the caliber that he was coached. I mean even spending this long in the league, chances are Ellington has probably still been coached better than Gardner has to this day. And that is before he starts working with Mark Price or whatever shooting coach. The way he carry himself is also something that Gardner doesn’t bring. He continues with the expectations of winning that Horford brought along. And the difference between him and Marvin, is that he was actually one of the leaders on his team, unlike Williams. I just look at him, and at worst see a poor man’s Dale Ellis.

Nookah

June 22nd, 2009
2:45 pm

Big Ray, I have enjoyed all your posts and your very inciteful comments. I am a little terrified to be honest when I think of the track record of the Hawks Scouting crew and as if we needed it we are hit with the double whammy of having Ric Sund who has a less than stellar track record of drafting good players. Then you combine that with Woody’s penchant for sitting rookies and not developing them. I am indeed very very petrified as a Hawks’ fan and keep asking myself the question, how will we handle draft day? I await Thursday with bated breath and I must be honest, I am not optimisitc.

I tend to agree with you however, it may be best we get a proven young PG such as Jack or Sessions, but we still have issues and I am not sure they will be addressed with this current management and HC in place. I see franchises like the Bulls, the Heat and the Bobcats getting better. I am a little worried thet we will take a few steps back this year. I am really hoping and praying my thoughts are way off.

BIg Ray, Sekou, anyone, please allay my fears if anyone can.

Go Hawks!!!

Nuff respect everytime!!!!

A Tribe Called Quest

June 22nd, 2009
2:46 pm

We might as well trade away all picks this year. After 5 years of turmoil with Billy Knight’s egregious drafting mistakes, I don’t feel like getting a Robert Swift or Sene with the 19th overall pick. Trade this pick with the skinny lard Speedy Claxton and get some more role players in here

[...] old man was.. Not by a long shot. An another note.. Hansbrough had a good workout with the Hawks. Sekou Smith, AJC: “The reviews were unanimous. On 10-point scale, Tyler Hansbrough’s Sunday morning workout for the [...]

Big Ray

June 22nd, 2009
2:49 pm

O’brien,

I remember that game quite well. It showed me something. To so many others, it was merely “garbage time.”

Astro Joe,

I agree with a lot of what you said in your 1:36 post. Rip was a willing part/member of a team defense concept. Wish we had more willing parts, and that might help the defensive concept. As for Douglas, you are right, I think. I knew what you meant by the combination of skill and the desire and/or fearlessness. My point was that there does not seem to be a premium on that in Atlanta. I wasn’t talking as much about the front office as I was about the guys who wear the jerseys, though I did mention Mario (lack of skills) and Josh (lack of fundamentals and focus) as deviations, and the unique flaws that they have.

No, that problem exists on the roster, and it’s not something Woody or any other coach can make his players be, though he can inspire and encourage it to a degree. I doubt that the issue is his own lack of intensity or drive.

As for Ellington vs. Gardner, that’s what most teams are going to do: value a draft prospect like Ellington over a young free agent pickup like Gardner. I wouldn’t know the percentages, but I’m betting that the first round picks turn out better than the FA pickups, more often than not. My point of comparing those two is whether or not the coaching staff sees more in a guy like Ellington as a draft pick, than they do in a guy who has spent a year in their system. Ellington certainly came from a better and more famous program than Gardner did, and has more hype. But whether or not he does more on the floor for this team is another story.

I wouldn’t bet against him, but I wouldn’t bet the farm ON him. Of course, that’s the beauty of the #19 pick. You’re not betting the farm….

Jhan,

Agreed on many fronts. Nevertheless, it’s not as simple as all that. The front office can plan to do whatever they wish, but that does not mean their plans come to fruition. Sund said he planned on keeping Childress. Billy planned on netting us Sam Cassell. Neither happened, as we don’t have Chill, and we ended up paying Speedy for nothing.

Sund might say “best player available” but we all know that’s a very vanilla statement. “Best player that can help us” is more specific. Or perhaps, “best player to have if our free agent Plan A, Plan B, or even Plan C doesn’t work out” is possibly even more specific. Of course, I have no idea if they’re thinking like that, but I figure it’s worth considering.

No, you don’t ideally want to address your rotation issues via the draft (sometimes not even in the lottery), but maybe it suffices as Plan D or Plan E.

cp

June 22nd, 2009
2:50 pm

lol ray I see you are on fire today..

Someone tell me if Ellington can create off the dribble and defend. If not then we should pass on him. Like it has been stated, we don’t run guys off of screens here and that is what he needs. I don’t want another perimeter player who cant defend. We have enough of those as it is. That’s why guys were getting in foul trouble because they had to come over and try to defend a guy who had a opening to the lane. Another thing is last year what hurt us is that guys started settling for jumpers way too often instead of driving. So if Ellington cant create off the dribble or defend pass on the kid. If T Will or Teague is there take either one. T Will has the length and strength to guard bigger guys, has a good handle, good passer, and rebounds well for his position. Meeks, Hudson, Douglas, Danny Green, or Tyrese Rice would be a nice pick up in the second round. I would not have a problem with either guy. Sam Young and Derrick Brown are my sleepers in this draft.

A Tribe Called Quest

June 22nd, 2009
2:53 pm

Sheldy made way too much in his 3 seasons so far, so if we could sign him for Randolph Morris money, I’d do it. I’m sure he wants to be close to his expecting wife Candace in Cali though. Shelden, while being a true stiff, still averaged about 10 & 5 over 30 mpg (rough estimate based on minutes he played) and is probably better than Solomon Jones

Big Ray

June 22nd, 2009
3:11 pm

Ramon,

That was very well-stated, and makes me feel better about Ellington all the way around.

Nookah,

Fear not. This is Sund’s first rodeo with the Hawks as far as the draft goes. Let’s see what happens first, and then be scared later if he screws the pooch.

Mike is back

June 22nd, 2009
3:15 pm

Big Ray, loved yo comment about coaching…that was funny as He11.lol

To answer your question:
If Woody (and his players) can’t run a solid screen for his two favorite players in the whole wide world (Joe and Bibby), then what rookie would rate such treatment, or even influence what HASN’T been done in the past 5 years?

AL did…his game was so strong…Woody had to make room for him in his rotation. Ellington has the talent to do the same. I think one of biggest problem with screens for the Hawks is lack of imagination on offense. When 90% of your plays are design for two players…guys are not going to be that motivated to set screens.

In this weak draft…Ellington would be a safe pick. The Hawks made it to the second round in the playoff…maybe that changes Chill or Anderson’s mind…u never know. This Hansbrough story is starting to eerily sound like Sheldon…the players are different…but the story line is the same…Jerry Sloan system is better suited for Hansbrough. He would languish in Woody’s system to say the lease. You get instant energy in Solo…but Woody seldom uses him. Once Hansbrough gets dunked on ala RandMo…look out DNPs…Here he comes.

Siler names has been mentioned in some draft discussions. In keeping with Sekou theme about trading out…instead of moving up…that sounds like a recipe for success. Trade down to get a guy like Siler and pick-up an extra pick. You should easily be able to get a PG in the second round.

Big Ray

June 22nd, 2009
3:24 pm

Quest,

Give Solomon 30 mpg and I guarantee you he will impress you more than Sheldon. Not only that, but Candace might have re-thought that fateful night when ol’ Shellhead came around with the ring….(yeah, I know, that was wrong as hell)…LOL….

CP,

Yeah, I’m in one of my moods, lol. Tell you what. I was talking to Sautee on the phone a few minutes ago, and he brought up a really good point. Wayne Ellington’s role did not involve him creating his own shot, or going after it off the dribble. That was Lawson’s role. So does Ellington have the ability to do it? It’s possible that he is like many draft prospects that play on great teams, where roles are well-defined and disciplined, where the coach knows how to use the players to have the best chance at winning it all….in other words, he may have the ability, and we just don’t know it. Or, he may have the ability to develop that part of his game. One thing is known for sure- he was well-coached.

I.MUS WRITE- INTERNATIONAL MAN OF MYSTERY

June 22nd, 2009
3:27 pm

My gawd…… Stop with this Tyler Hansborough garbage. First Sekou cant report anything that he’s seen now he wants us to sip his tainted kool-aid and believe Psycho T is a beast. Then there’s others who want to debate hieght and standing reach…STOP THIS BS…….. Why draft this guy -another dam PF when there are tons of capeable Pg’s in this draft……. Billy Knight mus be sumwhere smiling………

Seriously tho is Tyler H gonna be anything close to Matt Harpring-probably not ……… He has hearty,,he’s a hard worker, he’s this he’s that….Who the hell cares -if we draft him its gonna be a mistake. when and where will he get time at the 3 at the 4 at C…….

Big Ray

June 22nd, 2009
3:29 pm

Mike,

Thanks! I aim to please, even if it’s myself that I’m pleasing sometimes, LOL!

A pg in the second round? Don’t know how good of an idea that is, considering it will be like the 46th pick or something. I don’t know, your guess is as good as mine.

On Ellington: I like the guy. It would be nice if his game is as strong, and fits as well as Horford’s did. But then, we were in dire need at the position, which helped Horford get on the practice floor. With old hands like JJ, possibly Bibby, possibly Flip, and Marvin…does Ellington have the same chance?

Not arguing, just asking. Not taking away from Horford at all, as I LOVE his game, but he didn’t have much to overcome on this roster. Zaza was the best we had. Here’s to hoping for similar success (but not similar misuse) as Horford had, for Ellington if we get him.

Big Ray

June 22nd, 2009
3:32 pm

IMUS,

I knew you could be counted on for a hate-binge. Ha! Here’s my opinion: where does a shooting guard see time behind the guys we have, especially if Flip re-signs? Exactly.

A point guard has the best chance, but again…that’s based on what happens in free agency. If Bibby stays, no pg has much of a chance (not even the “rookie” we still have) outside of Flip. And no SG will get to play behind JJ. Just ask Gardner.

It’s all good, baby. Drink the smoke-screen koolaid, or add your own flavor. It’s all good.

[...] brings the pain [AJC] 2009 NBA Draft Preview: No. 19 Atlanta Hawks [But The Game Is [...]

cp

June 22nd, 2009
3:46 pm

ray now that Sautee mentioned it thats a great point. I hope that if we do select Ellington that he can do those things we have not seen him do. This is going to be a wild draft night.

Tyger

June 22nd, 2009
3:49 pm

Just say NO to Adam Keefe! If we want a hustle white boy, get one from the DLeague or in the 2nd rd., dont waste another 1st rd. pick on a garbage man.

Get the guy with the most upside, if Drew says Ellington is an “elite shooter”, you grab him. That’s one more thing the Hawks don’t have and desperately need.

I also like the Toney Douglas story. Marcus Thornton can stroke it too. The Daye kid is intriguing – 6′11 and rail thin but w/ guard skills – he could be special. And thats what you want when picking 19 – sleepers – remember Jsmoove was only a #17.

People claimed J.Chills was too thin, but he roamed the paint like he weighed 250.

doc

June 22nd, 2009
4:00 pm

funny ray, it comes down to color sometimes. mario looks good with his hustle and everyone likes mario. as tyger says dont want no white hustle on my team. dont disagree with the concept but tyger says we can go after a black undersized hustle 2 guard in douglas but not someone of a different color with similar attributes and limitations. ray, if and when it makes sense let me know. me, i’ll stay color blind.

Astro Joe

June 22nd, 2009
4:02 pm

Attitude an aptitude. A competitor with a high basketball IQ. I don’t care what position, what school, what height/weight, if he’s from Europe or America, his race… none of it matters to me. In the playoffs, I saw my favorite team fail to compete (no heart) and often times I saw guys who didn’t seem to understand what to do (low IQ). Time to improve the attitude and aptitude. Start with the draft and finish with free agency/trades. Attitude and aptitude. Change the culture.

I.MUS WRITE- INTERNATIONAL MAN OF MYSTERY

June 22nd, 2009
4:06 pm

Dam it not again-i smell lottery right around the corner. wayne ellington is Sean Respert all over again. Yall remember hit the 6′4 SG from Michigan State that didnt last 2 full years in the NBA……….

[...] effort is a skill in the NBA, then Tyler Hansborough wowed the Hawks in his [...]

I.MUS WRITE- INTERNATIONAL MAN OF MYSTERY

June 22nd, 2009
4:18 pm

Yeah im good for it Ray u know how I do………. If we draft a pg that can actually play he should get minutes over Law who has shown nothing-Flip is’nt a PG and Bibby is old- If we got a guy who was ready to go and outperformed all of them he wouldnt see timre becuz Woody plays favorites like a dam little kid……..

The Same goe’s for your boi Pshcho T- where is he gonna plaY…….. In practice is where.

Draft a player that we can plug in at PG Sf incase Marvin leaves or center…………………NO Sg’s -Get a point SF or a dam C its that simple

Ray – I dont know who they will get but if he’s a player with a good game he will make sum body play him – JJ might leave as well as Flip, Bibby, ZAZA, Marvin- so my point is get a guy that demands playing time and he will contribute – becuz Woody wont have a choice in the matter……IE -Horford

Im fine packaging the pick with Ac or speedy or trading down…….. Helll no to Psycho T……… I meant adam keefe

Sekou Smith

June 22nd, 2009
4:29 pm

I think the 19th pick, Speed-O’s expiring contract and whatever filler necessary could net the Hawks a decent player like Camby (as mentioned above) or someone of that ilk

Teague fits like any rookie point guard with this team … you’ll spend the next year cursing him for not being Chris Paul or Deron Williams. He’s talented but probably not ready to run a team from the first day of training camp, which is what everyone seems to expect.

I just got off the phone with one of my most trusted sources and I was asking him what he thought up and down the draft and he told me that Blake Griffin’s a lock and after that, two through 30, there’s not a shakes bit of difference between the crowd. That means there’s just a whole lot of conjecture and falling in and out of love with guys that’s going to go on between now and Thursday night. Because nobody really knows what they want or what anyone else wants above them.

All that said, it’s pretty hard to blow the pick at 19.

doc

June 22nd, 2009
4:31 pm

is ellington too one dimensional on a team that needs more than that? is he the equivalent of jj reddick?

agree aj, agree whole heartedly.

O'Brien

June 22nd, 2009
4:33 pm

Sund has said that he didnt draft Acie, he inherited him. And we know that Woody is not a fan of Acie either. As a result, I think the Hawks will take a PG because there is no guarantee that Bibby (or Flip, although he isnt really a PG, but he dominates the ball) will resign with us. I wonder if we can get Sund and Woody to agree on a PG that they both like?

Salim was a shooter, but that’s all he did. Like somebody else mentioned, we need a player who can do multiple things well. There is not enough evidence of Ellington’s play to suggest what his capabilities are. All we know is he did one or two things really well, and the Hawks are not known for their well defined roles.

Sautee

June 22nd, 2009
4:48 pm

What’s the biggest question mark facing this franchise?

Good question, yes, but I’d have to say IMHO that the BIGGEST question mark going forward is:

Can we re-sign Joe Johnson to an extension?

Can anyone think of a bigger question?

And if we are not SURE that we can, then it might be sensible to draft an SG, whether of not we think they are the BEST player at 19. Particularly if there’s not much talent difference in the prospects.

In other words perhaps the interest in Ellington could be as much for “insurance” purposes as it is finding an immediate contributor.

Are we worried enough to draft for that potential “need”?

We’ll see on Thursday. And I, for one, can’t wait!

Melvin

June 22nd, 2009
4:52 pm

Sekou,

If the Hawks acquire Camby under your scenario. Is it plausible to assume that the Hawks are not going to resign ZaZa? If thats the case, then they need to sign another scoring big man such as Charlie V, Mcdyess, Channing Frye or bring over Andersen…

[...] but full bore” that people were talking about.  Because he’s white, you see.  (AJC Hawks Blog) Posted by TM Williamson Filed in TM Williamson ·Tags: 2009 draft, Basketball, Brett [...]

Nookah

June 22nd, 2009
4:54 pm

Sautee, excellent point. That’s an important ingredient in this year’s draft for the Hawks and it will definitely influence who we pick with the 19th pick.

Go Hawks!!

Ariose

June 22nd, 2009
4:54 pm

There is Highschool and practice footage of Ellington on youtube. Him and Gerald Henderson were HS teammates….nasty combination…he did more ball handling then(obviously).

I just hope we can make the speedy+Cash for Kaman deal go down….fingers crossed.

Daddyrich

June 22nd, 2009
4:59 pm

Draft Lawson!!

Ariose

June 22nd, 2009
5:01 pm

Ellington+Danny Green=super duper insurance policies. Especially with chills gone, I think Danny green is better than him in the 2nd round.

ILL-logical

June 22nd, 2009
5:07 pm

The biggest question facing this franchise , at least in the near term, is how much longer is Woodson going to remain the head coach? The financial condition of the BASG is of course a longer trem question. Why the Woodson question?

Because every draft/ free agent decision has to be made on w/not that player fits his style not w/not that player can play and given the current roster, every decision is critical.

Blast

June 22nd, 2009
5:10 pm

Sund has two picks to get it right. A man cannot ask for more than that especially on a draft with such wild possibilities.

Better get it right, Sund!

Go Hawks!

Ariose

June 22nd, 2009
5:13 pm

…yup…but F-his style, if i’m the GM I get that man Legit Talent. If he can’t get the job done with that then i’ll show him the door……besides he’salready be on my bad list so another screwup wouldn’t be tolerated…

Sautee

June 22nd, 2009
5:14 pm

Ill,

Good point. For me the Joe thing would be #1 and that would be #1A. Since he IS the coach for now, I opted for the Joe question.

But you are correct that it affects EVERY decision made this offseason.

Nookah

June 22nd, 2009
5:18 pm

It is pretty clear that to win an NBA championship you need a superstar, an on-court leader all wrapped up in one, a la Kobe, MJ, Magic, Bird and to be continued…LeBron.

The problem we find ourselves in is that we are not good enough now to win a championship and we are not bad enough to get a #1 pick. Dejavu? Weren’t we here before after the Dominique, Doc Rivers Spud Webb era and we completely blew that? We are back here again and we are missing the same piece we were missing then……an aggressive and savy management to ensure we add incremental and effective pieces rather than drafting busts that set us back 3 or 4 years. This is one area the Hawks have never been able to master.

Right now the best thing that could happen to the Hawks is that the current ownership sells the team to someone who wants to win, not just have a mediocre franchise and in turn that new owner select a top echelon GM who understands basketball and what it requires to put a championship product together.

Yes, I am sorry to sound pessimistic but with the current crew we have in charge (ASG, Sund, Woody), we are all dreaming and hoping for the best, and that is what will continue to happen. We will continue to dream and hope for the best without any success.

Let us ask ourselves some questions? 1) How far has any Sund team reached in the playoffs? 2) Who was Woody associated with before he came to the Hawks? 3) What is the track record of that coach with the development of young players? 4) Can we reproduce the same formula as that LB team had to win in today’s NBA? 5) What was the identity of that team and do we have that identity or do we have any identity at all? 6) Is the ASG willing to spend the kind of money to get the necessary pieces?

Every year we come on this blog and debate which PG we should take in the draft and every year we get it wrong. I honestly don’t think we have the quality management or scouting crew necessary to identify and attract the personnel needed to put us over the top. Even if we did get them we do not have the coaching necessary to put us over the top.

As I stated in an earlier blog I only hope I am way off and all of this is a figment of my imagination.

Go Hawks!!!

Big Ray

June 22nd, 2009
5:38 pm

Doc,

Downright sick, isn’t it? There really is no difference, other than the hypocritical perspective of the person saying it. Of course, not everyone is aware of the hypocrisy, and we can’t blame anybody that sees Shellhead when they see Hansbrough (though I’m not seeing THAT). Still, hypocrisy. Colorblind is nice, but not common enough.

Astro Joe,

Agreed all the way. Change the culture is what the Falcons did. Wonder if the Hawks have what it takes to do that as well. Next question, what if changing the culture means something you don’t expect, or don’t like as an idea? Rhetorical question only, and for anybody who sees it, not aimed at you.

IMUS,

Hey, we’ll see what happens. And spend part of the summer (and months afterward) cursing, applauding, depending on the pick and who you are…

Ariose,

I heard THAT. Word…

Sekou,

I’ll not curse any pg we take at #19 for not being a starter. Hell, it’s in the bottom half of the first round. It’s not like being projected as a future superstar, being taken at #2 (it’s not anybody’s fault where they are taken), and still not being anywhere in the top ten of one’s position, though….

Trade the pick. Save all those young’uns the pain of being a rookie around these parts. Wait until we have a higher slot. Get a vet. Do something useful besides adding some young talented fella to the YMBA (Young Mens Bench Association).

niremetal

June 22nd, 2009
5:41 pm

Sekou,

Any word on if/when the Hawks will be extending qualifying offers to Marvin and Chills?

niremetal

June 22nd, 2009
5:43 pm

Trade the pick. Save all those young’uns the pain of being a rookie around these parts. Wait until we have a higher slot. Get a vet. Do something useful besides adding some young talented fella to the YMBA (Young Mens Bench Association).

Yup.

newkid

June 22nd, 2009
5:45 pm

My last post didn’t make it through the AJC’s filter, so I’ll be less verbose. Not advocating Ellington, but don’t have a problem with him either. His skillset is well known (i.e., he’s a dead-eye shooter who gets his best looks coming off screens; he’s not terribly skilled at freeing himself off the dribble). If Sund had him in for a visit, it must have been with the intent of potentially drafting him (otherwise why waste everyone’s time). He’d immediately be the best pure shooter (by far) on the Hawks roster. If he’s a potential Hawks pick, then Sund/Woody would be foolish (although this wouldn’t set a precedent) to try and make him something he isn’t.

Will he play defense? Coach Williams demands his players commit to defense; he only had Marvin for a year, yet his defensive skills we fairly well-developed; ever paid attention to the manner in which Lawson gets at it on defense? Will Ellington be a Tony Douglas type defender? Didn’t see that during his 3 years at Carolina. Will he play better ‘D’ than Rip (or Ray Allen)? Haven’t ever considered either of those cats more than adequate defenders; absolutely no reason to expect anything less from Ellington.

niremetal

June 22nd, 2009
5:49 pm

If the Hawks aren’t shopping this pick like WashMu was shopping subprime loans, I’ll be surprised and miffed.

Sautee

June 22nd, 2009
6:02 pm

KevinA

June 22nd, 2009
6:10 pm

If we can get Chills back we don’t need a pg. JJ, Chills, Flip and Acie can all play pg. Dropping Bibby and Speedy gives us 19 million a year to do the rest of the deals. If we think we need depth at center we can get a Drew Gooden type for 2 million. We have plenty of good young talent on the bench that dosen’t play much any way. Use the picks to get rid of Speedy if needed or trade picks for future picks

Next year or the year after is when we make the tough decisions. How much does Marvin,Josh, Chills, Al ZaZa, Solo, improve. Will we keep JJ or go into a different direction. We can still make the playoffs way and let the team mature another year.

Any time during these two years there is always trades that can be made. I don’t think we need another project. We have projects on going now.

doc

June 22nd, 2009
6:23 pm

KEVIN, 4 OF THE 7 ON YOUR IMPROVE LIST ARE NOT TECHNICALLY ON OUR ROSTER TO HAVE NEXT YEAR OR EVEN THIS YEAR. AL IS A RFA. THIS IS THE YEAR FOR TOUGH DECISIONS NOT NEXT.

sorry to cap out on you, the cap lock got caught. i think there will be much surprise if we get much of that team from last year back under cap much less chills. we only got one of two last year why do you think the ratio will go up my man?

doc

June 22nd, 2009
6:25 pm

al is a rfa next year was implied and a huge decision as well along with jj. tough times maybe.

lou hudson

June 22nd, 2009
6:37 pm

People, please stop the madness, It would not make any sense to draft Hansborough; he’s another undersized forward who’s too slow to score at the 3 and too small bang in the lane. Next, the 5 and 1 are the positions which need the most improvement. Moreover with Leborn, Wade, R. Lewis ,and Boston’s 3, the Hawks must sign Chillz ( a long 6′8″ defensive stopper & mad rebounder) to guard these players. Solution: Let Bibby go, sign Jack or Sessions, S & T Marvin with Speedy’s contract throw in Evans for Kaman or Pryzilla (Center)and 2nd pick. Now pay Chillz, resign Jones (cheap), sign Flip (3yr/11) and sign Zaza if possible, if not life goes on. The money would there with Speedy & Bibby gone. Draft a shooting wing player with 19th pick.
Why is it so difficult to figure out!!!

The Dogfighter Returns

June 22nd, 2009
6:42 pm

tyler would be a nice pick. he is much better than z on the cavs team. if the cavs or hawks do not take him orlando will. he is the missing peice for that team.

he can shoot from the out side and plays hard. horford needs a low post game. what’s up with that dude.

The Madness

June 22nd, 2009
6:48 pm

Y’all stop using my name in vain.

Geez, ten times per blog. Come up with another lame phrase and keep my name out of it.

Sautee

June 22nd, 2009
6:56 pm

We have witnessed history. That’s GOT to be a record for capitalization for doc.

LOL! ;-)

Sautee

June 22nd, 2009
7:06 pm

For all you Hansbrough doubters:

From Sekou’s article (some of you must have missed it):

“But Hansbrough proved a theory that a wise Eastern Conference executive reiterated to me Sunday night, “effort is a skill in the NBA.” And Hansbrough has it in reserve.”

And that’s in CONTRAST to the others who worked out for the Hawks.

Funny how we say we ARE NOT looking for a starter from the 19 pick, just a contributor, and yet folks seem to think that PsychoT could NOT contribute?

Yet there’s this prevailing attitude that “if only mario had a jumpshot….” Hmmmm.

Personally, I think he’ll be gone at 19, but if he’s the pick, I’ll gladly cheer for him.

Or for whomever we pick.

doc

June 22nd, 2009
7:12 pm

sautee, we could not luck into such a situation where we have to decide. anyone think hansbrough, ellington and lawson will all still be there when we pick? my guess, one dimensional ellington will be the only one and will sit in the second row next year because he cant play defense any better than salim. wonder how long it will take ariose to respond to that?

Ariose

June 22nd, 2009
7:13 pm

Ray, Josh “Slipping the Pick” is a set offensive play and a good one at that. a 3rd of smooves dunks/lobs came off of that play alone. The defender has a choce to make 1)Swtich the slip(very hard to do b/c no one ever sees it coming) 2)Double mike(if he’s hot they won’t leve him and smoove will get a bucket easy) 3)or double smoove bad moove w/bibby out there.

C-Webb and Bibby ran this all the time back in sactown. How is this a bad “offensive play”. Even a pick is an offensive move, rarely a defensive one…..unless Bibby is trying to cross halfcourt with Rondo hounding him and Horfrod has to come and knock him on his arse…..now thats defensive(but mainly it’s just protecting the rock offensively).

When Smoove slips a pick he has an advantage b/c no other big can run/jump with him. If Horford had that ability he woud do it more often, but sadly, he’s not as fluid(Mr.Roboto) to do it All the time like smoove.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, that’s just my take….

O'Brien

June 22nd, 2009
7:16 pm

If the Hawks can trade Speedy, 19 and flier for Camby or Kaman, who would be the better fit for the Hawks.

I am worried about Kaman’s health, while Camby is older, and he only has one year left. but I would take Camby. He averaged 10 pts, 11 rebs, 2 blocks per game in 31 minutes.

Ariose

June 22nd, 2009
7:16 pm

Doc, I love cheez doodles and klondike bars…..yum!!!!! Don’t touch my candy!!!!!

Ariose

June 22nd, 2009
7:20 pm

newkid, I wouldn’t read too much into that personal visit, Patrick Mills, Terrence Williams, Marcus Thorton have all been through Hawks HQ over the past mothe for wokour sessions…..

I have no Idea what suind will do with the pick but I gaurentee it’ll be hard for hium to screw it up b/c there will be tons of quality players there when we pick.

Wink

June 22nd, 2009
7:20 pm

With the 19th pick the Hawks should take Toney Douglas or Ellington. We need perimeter defense, someone to stop the Tony Parkers,Mo Williams, at a deterrant. Ellington will give JJ an outlet when he get’s to the end of the shot clock, Ellington is a knockdown shooter. Sign Anderson to add bulk in the middle. Bring back Flip, ZaZa, Marvin & Mario. Make offer to Chills, if not move for another pick this year or next, close that door. Give Law the reigns, groom Douglas. JJ run the point here anyway & Bibby was the shooting guard. Move Bibby & Speedy’s contracts out of here. Compete for a center this year or next. Bottom line we need to resolve the point or center this year & get other other need next year.

Hoops

June 22nd, 2009
7:44 pm

I love reading everybody’s take on the draft. These are my thoughts:

1. We need a starter @ PG and a starter @ center. I don’t believe there is either in this draft for the Hawks. So the Hawks will have to sign or trade for these two positions or just sign/trade for a starter @ PG and stay with Horford.

2. Sign Sessions or Jack. Woody will not play a young PG (Acie) anyway. Re-sign Flip.

3. Use our #19 draft pick plus our players that other teams may want but we don’t need and make a trade. This means trade any combination of Acie, Speedy, Morris, & pick #19 for a big.

4. If we could package any of the above players with our draft pick for a stater @ 5, WOW, that would be huge! (Sund would have earned his money right there) Then Horford, Josh, and the new 5 could battle for a position. Sign Charlie V. and we may not need to resign Zaza.

5. What are the Hawks Brass going to do with Marvin? Something is up! I just haven’t figured it out yet! Sign & trade Marvin for Gay? I don’t know. Any thoughts?

Clyde

June 22nd, 2009
7:51 pm

We need Thabeet! He is the only one in this draft that has a chance to see playing time with Woody as the coach.

Big Ray

June 22nd, 2009
7:59 pm

Ariose,

You’re right. And so am I. How? Because slipping the pick IS a good way for Josh to get his “in-close” shot attempts. When Bibby was running the pick and roll with him, more often than not, that’s how it worked. But Bibby didn’t get the chance to run the pick with him nearly as often as they or we would like. No, somebody else gets the ball for 3/4 of the shot clock on many, if not most possessions. That guy’s name is Joe. Unlike Bibby, he’ll keep that ball if he thinks his shot attempt has a better chance than his pass attempt. That’s more of what I was driving at.

I’ll give Bibby all the credit in the world for changing our offense. Joe still doesn’t play like that. He doesn’t look to. He’s our #1 option, and he’s looking to score, as he should be. The problem is that he’s also our #1 ball-handler by a good margin, even over Bibby. I know I’m gonna get flamed by some people for laying this at Joe’s feet, but it is what it is. It also explains the number of assists that he gets, although only partially.

Joe can pass, and make plays (though he makes far more plays for himself than he does teammates). Add that to having the ball far more than anybody else, and you have a guy who can get 5 or 6 dimes a game. Make him what he truly is (a #1 scoring option), and take the ball out of his hands some, and he will have fewer assists. Like it or not, some of those assists come from bail-out passes, where he has finally figured out that he’s not getting past the two defenders in front of him, for a shot that he likes.

As I said on Bradley’s blog, Woody’s offense is stagnant as hell without Bibby. Madonna ought to sue him under copyright laws for that offense. After all, you don’t think Woody’s offense was the first time you heard “stike a pose”, is it?

AB

June 22nd, 2009
8:06 pm

I wouldn’t be suprised if we took Tyler Hanbrough instead of DeJuan Blair.

AB

June 22nd, 2009
8:07 pm

Sund and Woody are going to f*ck us up!

tjhook

June 22nd, 2009
8:11 pm

Hoops, I’m going to follow your lead on the moves. I think Jack is the right choice, simply because he allows us ball control and outside shooting. It also leaves the door open for Flip to return and offer his explosive bench scoring without disrupting the offense.
I think ZaZa is indispensible simply because he plays like he is an immovable force when it comes to rebounding. He plays with passion and determination – which at 6′11 and 270 is a desired trademark. We do not want to see Pachulia in a Spurs uniform because he would bring the Boys in Black back to a championship. (My Army Reserve unit is in San Antonio and they have the money in reserve to bring him in . . . and they love international players!!)
Finally, after signing the PG and the post help, we need another scorer (not just shooter) to take the pressure off of Joe (and Flip when he is in the game). I believe that person has to be a wing player (either 2 or 3) but they need to put the ball on the floor and create their own offense (a Courtney Lee-type would not be out of the question)

Big Ray

June 22nd, 2009
8:14 pm

Ariose,

To continue, Josh needs to learn to set solid picks, which he DOES NOT DO. Guess what, nobody else does either, other than Bibby (every chance he gets) and Horford (less so, but does it when called upon).

I see Josh slipping the pick with guys who don’t give him the ball enough in that situation (like JJ and Flip). The problem is, he’s still doing what he thinks he should, as it creates a scoring opportunity for either himself, or the ball-handler. Other teams recognize that Bibby presents the threat, but JJ and Flip DO NOT.

So what do they do? They “stay at home”, trapping Joe, or funneling Flip in towards a defense, and drawing a charge on him. Seen it too many times. Of course, while this play is NOT happening, whoever is not involved in the play tends to be standing around. Nice.

Ariose

June 22nd, 2009
8:16 pm

“(but they’ll damn sure heave it to him when he’s hanging around the arc, won’t they”

Lol, Ray I see what you’re sayin’. I speed read sometimes lol. Joe is the biggest offender of bad decision making beleive it or not. TRhey aren’t BIG mistakes(typicla JJ mistakes that don’t mean much) but over time they get really annyoing. Like his penchant for probing until there’s 3 second left on the shot-clock and then opassing it to smoove. He defenetly needs to give the ball up more.

That why I think Having Danny Green+ Ellington will help. They’re that good so he’ll have to pass, and they make plays on their own.

I agree that Ellington has a Slow releas. Pure, but slow. In the championchip game, if his defender had gotten to him a fraction of a ssecond sooner ON EVERY PLAY, wayne would’ve been in trouble…..but what do I know. Maybe there’s a method to his (march)madness? If we draft him we’ll just have to pray it’s not a problem…..even Salims quick trigger got blocked a few times…..

Big Ray

June 22nd, 2009
8:18 pm

Newkid,

I think there is some interest in Ellington. You can’t ignore a pure shooter like that. Then again, I thought you couldn’t ignore a pure pg when you really needed one, but I was wrong there…

As for having him in for an interview, you know what they call that: due dilligence. It’s possible that he and other talented guys drop to us. And it would be awfully foolish to see that happen, and then be thinking, “Hey, this guy is available! Do we want him or not? Gee, I don’t know, we don’t know a single thing about the guy other than watching him at combines and in NCAA games. Huh. I don’t know what we should do.”

Happens though, especially if you leave it up to these guys’ agents. Agents seem to think they know more about where the player will be picked than anybody else does. Stupid agents….

Big Ray

June 22nd, 2009
8:22 pm

Ariose,

Ain’t no thang, brotha. I speed read myself sometimes. And sometimes I hit the trigger too quickly and hit “submit comment” before I’ve done my due dilligence. Hate when that happens, but I only have myself to blame, lol!

I’m not worried about Ellington’s release at all. His mechanics are great, and he can learn to get that shot off quicker. The timing, getting to where you want to (your best spot on the floor) is the thing. Ellington seems to know how to do that. His fundamentals seem just fine. Many small things can be coached up.

Ariose

June 22nd, 2009
8:24 pm

Ray, I find it funny. Have you noticed that Smoove ALWAYS FINDS JJ? Weather it’s crunch time with three seconds left and you don’t think he can see over the defense, or when he’s barrekling down the lane and you think he MIGT just be out of control. He ALWAYS KNOWS WHERE JOE IS. We need to give that man his credit.

Conversely, Joe couldn’t find smoove/horford if they had bulleseye’s on their backs. WE KNOW when he needs to pass(screamed at the T.V plenty of times) but he doesn’t seem to realize. I don’t whow what he’s staring at lol….and woody doesn’t say a word. “that’s allright Joe get em next time”. Honestly you hear about Kobe and LBJ watching tons of film. I don’t think Joe does that. If he did, I think he would have eliminated some of these glaring issues already.

niremetal

June 22nd, 2009
8:26 pm

Agents seem to think they know more about where the player will be picked than anybody else does. Stupid agents….

Yup. Agents are the folks who told Brandon Jennings “Screw college ball. Go to Europe for a year. It’ll be a great learning experience for you. And you’ll make some money. You won’t drop from the presumptive #1 pick to late lottery, I promise. Trust me – it makes sense despite the fact that your game has no carryover to the European game.”

Most agents are lawyers. And take my word for it – never trust a lawyer when he says “Trust me” or “I only have your interests in mind” when there’s a fee in it for him.

Clyde

June 22nd, 2009
8:39 pm

Pretty soon I might have to say Fire Sund and Woody if we mess up this years draft

Ariose

June 22nd, 2009
8:47 pm

OK, guys I want you to watch the first fer seconds of the new J-Smoove mix. Right Around thirteen seconds woody says somthing to smoove. I’ve been trying to lip read it. I’m pretty sure he said “All I want you to do is rebound, pass and ,block shots”. Now remember, this was the home game RIGHT AFTER the charlotte game where Smoove got benched for whateveer reason.

That’s kinda cutthroaght of woodson don’t ya think? If i’m Smoove, i’m thinking: “do you even want me on the floor during offense?” I see why Jon Barry, Ty Lue, Anthony Johnson, Boris Diaw, Salim, Acie Law, Smoove, Childress, and Marvin have all been in heated arguments with Woody before. Hee can be vicious when he wants too…..and the day after smoove cussed you out.

I guess Smoove is one of the few players who can just ignore him and still have confidense in himself and his game…alsong ith salim& the rest of those vets I mentioned). The only difference is Smoove is indespensable and a key cog in Woodys “success”….everyone else has pretty much been shipped away.

Link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY3y7d8-fdU

Astro Joe

June 22nd, 2009
8:55 pm

Sautee, I would not draft based on Joe’s impending free agency. If he walks, we would have a decent chunk of change to find a suitable replacement.

doc, I think Horford is eligible for an extension next season but doesn’t become a RFA until the summer of 2011. Ideally, he will sign an extension next summer so that he never hits RFA.

If we re-sign Flip and keep Mo and have Joe and draft Ellington, how many of you will rip Woody when he can’t find time for the rookie to play SG behind Joe, Flip and Mo?

niremetal

June 22nd, 2009
8:56 pm

Clyde,

Until you admit that we made the right move by drafting Horford, I don’t think anyone will much care of your opinion on draft picks.

Ariose

June 22nd, 2009
8:57 pm

Doc, How was my 7:16pm post for a response? Hehehehehe……

Ariose

June 22nd, 2009
9:04 pm

AJ, If i’m sund, thats not my goal. My goal would be to evaluate how woody performs with the talent i’ve surrounded him with. If sund gets us Ellington & Green in the draft, and gats Kaman through a trade. WOODY HAS RUN OUT OF LAME AZZ EXCUSES. NO MATTER WHO HE PLAYS OR WHAT DUMB AZZ SETS HE RUNS HE BETTER WIN 55+ GAMES OR HE’S GETTING HIS BUTT SHIPPED OUTTA HERE ON THE FIRST CHARTER FLIGHT BACK TO INDIANA. SUND HAS TO PUT THE PRESSURE ON HIM THIS SEASON BY GIVING HIM A LOADED ROSTER. IT’S PUT UP OR SHUT UP TIME FOR THE WOODMAN….

niremetal

June 22nd, 2009
9:07 pm

Wait, let me save everyone some time and give you the rest of the conversation between Clyde and me:

Clyde: But LeBron and Wade tore us apart in the playoffs. So Horford sucks.
niremetal: LeBron averaged almost 40ppg in the East Finals against the Magic. Wade torched the Magic for 42 and 50 in their last two meetings of the year. So I guess Dwight Howard must suck too.
Clyde: But Sean Williams is better. He gets more blocks. So Horford sucks.
niremetal: Manute Bol had a higher blocks-per-game average than Hakeem and Dikembe. Was he a better defender?
Clyde: But Horford is short. So Horford sucks.
niremetal: If you think height is the end-all, be all, see last and remember Priest Lauderdale. Besides, Horford is only an inch shorter than D-12.
Clyde: Horford still sucks.
niremetal: Whatevs.

niremetal

June 22nd, 2009
9:10 pm

Sorry for the missed formatting. I was trying to make my “first response” in that look particularly important.

niremetal

June 22nd, 2009
9:11 pm

*wasn’t. Yeesh.

Ariose

June 22nd, 2009
9:14 pm

chuckw/deadjournalist

June 22nd, 2009
9:15 pm

if you haven’t seen it already, stephen a. smith sent out twitter:

The Hawks won’t do any better than they did this year unless they get who they want: Amare Stoudamire. They’re after him.

Sautee

June 22nd, 2009
9:16 pm

AJ,

I hear what you’re saying BUT, if Joe DOES leave, could we actually use that money to get a suitable replacement that would want to come here?

Remember what it was like BEFORE Joe?

Decent free agents shunned us left and right. All our precious cap space was totally wasted.

I’m thinking we NEED some insurance, but it COULD be next year.

The advantage of THIS year would be that the talent level seems so even from “#2-#30″ as Sekou’s friend put it.

Hoops

June 22nd, 2009
9:17 pm

niremetal,

Go back to studying for the bar. You have too much time on your hands! Ha!

Ariose

June 22nd, 2009
9:20 pm

Stephen A. is full of it, and i’ll roast his azz like a mashmellow on twitter as soon as Sekou confirms that it’s false. I’m tired of these big media buffs direspecting our franchise with thier factually incorrect speculations…

Ariose

June 22nd, 2009
9:21 pm

They better be trading him for speedy’s expiring contract+Randolph Morris+our two draft picks…..smoove is better…

Ariose

June 22nd, 2009
9:23 pm

I KNOW thats who they want….isn’t Amare 27 going on 28 this year? One year left on his deal. Microfracture knees and a bum eye……HELL NO!!!! not for 23 yr old smoove!!!

Clyde

June 22nd, 2009
9:24 pm

niremetal if we made the right pick by drafting Horford why do we still need a center?

Ariose

June 22nd, 2009
9:24 pm

At least Smoove plays defense….Horford too…..it BETTER not be for Horford….

I.MUS WRITE

June 22nd, 2009
9:25 pm

I smell bacon frying……………………………..

newkid

June 22nd, 2009
9:27 pm

Flash, aren’t you a DC area resident? Hope you and yours not involved in this afternoon’s Metro mishap. Looks ugly.

Astro Joe

June 22nd, 2009
9:38 pm

Sautee, I’m not saying that we would need to replace Joe with another All-Star. I do think (and have said repeatedly) that we need to re-sign Marvin because of Joe’s impending free agency. I think that if Joe bolts, we should be able to run more offense through our front court players. Add a complementary SG (like Mike Miller or Rasual Butler) and play ball. And presumably, we’ll be signing Flip to a multi-year contract and e could conceivably get more touches as well. But again, in my opinion, the ocntingency plan for life without Joe needs to revolve around keeping our starting front-court in tact.

Ariose

June 22nd, 2009
9:40 pm

From Wayne Ellington on Twitter:

KINDA LIKE ATL….. CAN’T WAIT TIL THURSDAY! I KNOW I AINT GONNA BE ABLE TO SLEEP…. YALL JUST DON’T EVEN KNOW…:)

newkid

June 22nd, 2009
9:47 pm

Sekou, just read your Sunday article on Ellington, and the most recent item on Mullens. Good stuff my man. Didn’t know about Mullens’ meager beginnings. I’ll be cheering for the kid (and his family) wherever he goes.

niremetal

June 22nd, 2009
9:47 pm

Up until a month ago, I lived 1 Metro stop away from the DC mishap. Yeah, scary stuff.

niremetal

June 22nd, 2009
9:49 pm

Stephen A. Smith said the same thing last year. That the Hawks had peaked. Whoops.

Astro Joe

June 22nd, 2009
9:52 pm

nire, my sister takes the Metro every weekday but is out of the country on vacation. Like you said, scary stuff.

doc

June 22nd, 2009
9:58 pm

A man, this blog sucks when you have got your nose in the books. it got a sincere rofl. too good dude. candy is good. couldnt comment when i first read it as i was heading out the door.

now where is the draft party?

aj i thought al was drafted the year after marvin but i guess that was shels year. my bad, at least we dont have to worry about that this year on top of the other issues. heh heh, so we have acie for to more years as well huh? basg plan ahead with al for an extension and spend unnecessarily? yeah right!

I.MUS WRITE

June 22nd, 2009
9:58 pm

LOL at AB, ya think….Ariose what did Stephen A say? Hoops Aa S&T for Rudy Gay would be an early x-mas present. Marcus Camby will be 36 next season, there are better options- Birdman,Gortat etc….. Preference= Hate.

Melvin

June 22nd, 2009
10:32 pm

Ariose,

Obviously, you need a refresher. Forget all this Toney Douglas talk….
Here’s our 2nd round pick if we don’t choose a PG in the 1st…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9anGAmF9sg&feature=PlayList&p=6B44A13472074985&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=21

Simpdawg

June 22nd, 2009
11:04 pm

I still think the Hawks should try to trade the 19th pick to Portland for their 24th and 33rd picks, then the Hawks should select Toney Douglas at 24, Jodie Meeks at 33rd and either Robert Dozier, Jeff Pendergraph, or Josh Heytvelt at 49th (who’s ever available).

G-Man

June 22nd, 2009
11:07 pm

Melvin

you need to do some research on Lester Hudson. That kid is amazing. He has posted a Quadruple double.

Reggie

June 22nd, 2009
11:12 pm

Sekou

Stephen A Smith is reported on his Twitter Page that the hawks are interested in Amare Stoudamire. What do you know about this? Is this true?

Reggie

June 22nd, 2009
11:13 pm

Sekou

Stephen A Smith reported on his Twitter Page that the hawks are interested in Amare Stoudamire. What do you know about this? Is this true?

Ariose

June 22nd, 2009
11:14 pm

I.Mus, LOL @ Bacon comment. Stephen A. Hasn’t responded yet. He probably packed it in for the night.

Melvin, Ha! I haven’t forgotten about you boi.

Mike is back

June 22nd, 2009
11:15 pm

Astro Joe, All this Hansbrough chatter is making me nervous as a rat trap in shoebox!!! New GM, but same coach…like others…I hope I’m wrong.

I can see it now…we take Hansbrough…give Acie away for a bag of chips and a coke…we get no smile. Acie goes to a team and get consistent minutes and starts to flourish…our new found PG struggle like heck trying to fit into Woody’s system…what a system…dam my bad.

Anyway, Hansbrough is exposed as a weak defender in the Post…and so its only a few teams Woody can use him at the center or PF…and everyone on the blog is got memories Sheldon standing around like a ghost…dancing around to a sad slow tune. Heh heh

It’s interesting…I was so deperate for BBall I was watching the Memphis Grizzle discussing their team and goals on Sport South. They was letting LHollins breakdown his players…and they interview the players too. When they got to Mike Conley his remarks made me think of Acie. He said the PG is an extension of the coach. Before Hollins got there he was never told go out and take charge or lead the team. He had to operate within curtain parameters.

He said once Hollins came in all that changed…He felt like Hollins really believe him…his confidence and his swagger skyrocked…then his level of play started to surge. They are Taking Thabeet by the way…and they are doing it for Shot blocking, Rebounding and interior defense…hmmmm sound familiar anyone…of course the Hawks do not need anyone like that…heck they can draft another undersized PF…Go Figure!!!!

Sorry this blog is very verbiage…I had to split it up.

Mike is back

June 22nd, 2009
11:18 pm

I wonder if Woody has thought about his approach to his young players…are they on the floor thinking about making plays…or are they on the floor worrying about screwing up. When you look at Woody’s offensive scheme its clear that only a select few guys have the freedom to make plays…that’s why the team can look so flat and lethargic at times. If his select few are struggling look out…here come a blowout…especially on the road.

We know that Sund has better PR skills than BK…but that’s about it when you look a their draft history. Sund said he didn’t draft Acie…to my knowledge he didn’t draft any of the players on the current roster…so why single out Acie…we all know the answer to that question. You got a PG now that came from a deeper draft class at a higher pick. Is anyone at 19th that much better than Acie…we don’t know. Give him the keys and let him drive around the block and kick the tires some…surely no one is judging Acie talent on his reduce role of giving the ball to JJ, Bibby, and Flip and go standing in the opposite corner till the play is over, or his lack of confidence and looking over his back at Woody. That ain’t the Acie that the Hawks drafted…that’s a struggling player trying to figure out his role on the team.

Solo refuse to keep playing that way…I think Acie will do the same…who ever he ends up playing for next season.

Doc, you are assuming Ellington is one-dimensional…remember at UNC everyone is a star…you have to play your role…I haven’t seen Ellington much…but the times I seen him I notice he doesn’t need to dominate the ball to be effective. That should easily make him a friend of JJ.lol

niremetal

June 22nd, 2009
11:24 pm

Sund said he didn’t draft Acie…to my knowledge he didn’t draft any of the players on the current roster…so why single out Acie…we all know the answer to that question.

Uh…yeah. We do know the answer to that question. The answer to that question is BECAUSE MARK BRADLEY ASKED HIM “WHAT DO YOU THINK OF ACIE LAW?” How is it “singling out” Player X someone when you’re asked point blank “What do you think of Player X?” My god, people. CONTEXT.

A Tribe Called Quest

June 22nd, 2009
11:29 pm

A few days ago, I went on a rant about our brilliant GM Rick Sund.

Let me expand this argument:

He chose Robert Swift in 2004

He chose Petro in 2005

He chose Sene in 2006.

In other words, 3 years in a row he chose 3 players the EXACT same size (6″11-7″1 = 7″0) and all 3 of these picks were egregious mistakes. Sund corrected a mistake the previous year by making the SAME mistake the next — all 3 players stink, are not healthy and are / will be out of the NBA.

That is our GM.

And as Astro Joe said in Mark Bradley’s blog, he tries to sound smart by making these outlandish formulas for winning, such as the 4 (5?) step process of maturity for a player.

Lord Help Us

niremetal

June 22nd, 2009
11:31 pm

In case anyone was wondering, here was the CONTEXT. Bradley was the one who prompted the discussion of Acie, and Sund said that he liked Acie and thought Acie was a good pick:

MB: Have you targeted any position in the draft?
RS: We’re just getting started into it. We have to zero in on it – what’s the best player and in what area do we need help most – and then you compare the two and you come up with a decision. I pretty much lean, when you’re picking 19th, to take the best player with the most potential. Particularly at 19.

MB: You liked Acie Law …
RS: I liked him. I didn’t draft him – I inherited him – but I thought it was a pretty solid draft pick, and I liked him when I saw him in college. Like most rookies, he didn’t get a lot of playing time. We knew when we brought in Flip that [Law’s] minutes were going to be suspect if Flip was a good fit, which he was. So he ended up being the ninth man, which is typical of a lot of guys in their second year. And I really thought the first half of the season he was contributing in that ninth-man role. Then he got hurt. And then, as the season progressed – and this is typical – [Woodson] tightened the rotation. That’s what you do because you want to get into the playoffs.

Now of course, I don’t agree with his assessment that shortening your rotation is “what you do” to get in the playoffs, but that’s not the point of this little morality play. I just wanted to paste this because people here seem to be reeeeeeaaaallly fond recently of jumping on one quote and going off on it without looking at the quote’s context.

niremetal

June 22nd, 2009
11:32 pm

Mike is back

June 22nd, 2009
11:33 pm

Niremetal, thanks for the love broooooooooooooooo. Man you are smart…u must be a lawyer or something.lol

Melvin

June 22nd, 2009
11:34 pm

G-Man,

I just watch hightlights of Hudson. He look like a combo guard that could flat out score. Reminds me of Ben Gordon. However, I like Curtis Jerrells a little better b/c he’s more of a PG than combo guard.

niremetal

June 22nd, 2009
11:35 pm

Sorry, Mike. You didn’t deserve to get stuck with the bill for that rant. But this is silly season in blog world, and people have been going all week, finding one quote (usually it’s a Sund quote because it’s his time of year, but it’s also been Sekou, ESPN folks, etc), and writing diatribes based around that quote without ever bothering to see if there is additional context. Your thing was just the straw that broke the camel’s back. No offense intended.

Mike is back

June 22nd, 2009
11:37 pm

Niremetal, my bad dawg…I forgot to mention Josh. Heh heh

niremetal

June 22nd, 2009
11:37 pm

Sorry, a final clarification before calling it a night – people have been taking one quote by different people – and the quoted person is usually Sund, but sometimes they seize on a quote by Sekou or an ESPN guy. I wasn’t saying that Sekou has been taking things out of context – Lord knows I’m not trying to get banned from here ;)

Mike is back

June 22nd, 2009
11:42 pm

Niremetal, yeah me too for that last jab…I’m a neophyte on the blog…no harm…no foul broooooooooo.

Najeh Davenpoop

June 23rd, 2009
3:58 am

I still have to hit up Youtube for a couple of hours and check out some videos of some of these players to whom I didn’t pay as much attention. But if I’m Rick Sund, my philosophy is pretty simple. Target players who will give you quality minutes this year and instantly make your squad deeper. What position a guy plays or how tall a guy is should be secondary to whether or not he can come in and contribute immediately. The reason I say this is because a) it’s not as if players like BJ Mullens, who are more potential than production at this point, are THAT great as prospects anyway, and b) with the impending free agent quagmire the Hawks are about to get caught in, they need as much flexibility as they can get.

So in other words, even if Hansbrough doesn’t address the Hawks’ height issue and isn’t going to necessarily be a starter, I’m open to picking him if he is good enough to play 20 minutes a game from the start. Even if Toney Douglas is a tweener who doesn’t directly address any particular issue, I’m open to picking him just because he provides depth and flexibility in the backcourt.

Bottom line is, the Hawks need to come away with quality players in this draft even if they are not filling specific predetermined roles. And in a draft as weak as this one, the odds of finding a quality player at #19 at a given position and height are very slim.

Oh yeah, one more thing: Psycho T and the Shellhead are two completely different kinds of players.

terrell barron

June 23rd, 2009
3:59 am

Steven A. Smith’s twitter page says that we might move Josh Smith for Amare. Phoenix really wants Smith, and Atlanta is going nowhere as constructed. If this happens, I’ll …….
Hey guys, finish this sentence for me, in your own words.

Najeh Davenpoop

June 23rd, 2009
4:01 am

And allow me to co-sign ATCQ for a second: I was completely unimpressed with the Rick Sund hire when it happened and surprised by the two solid free agent acquisitions he made last year, but his draft record is still absolutely horrible and I am waiting to see if he’s even better than Billy Knight in that department. I’m not holding my breath right now that the Hawks will come away with someone good.

vava74

June 23rd, 2009
4:11 am

People, this is very simple.

Tyler seems to be a very nice kid, but he’s not a Larry Bird and we do not need another Adam Keefe.

Ed

June 23rd, 2009
4:17 am

Saw this appraisal of W. Ellington & this part really concerns me as it says he’s not a Woody type of player. He needs plays run for him…good luck.

Ellington’s short-comings lie in his inability to create offense for himself, as he ranks third worst in isolation possessions generated behind two very poor ball-handlers in Paul Harris and K.C. Rivers, and his very related inability to draw fouls–which he did on just 9% of his used possessions. Ellington is obviously a finesse player who needs plays run for him in the half-court in order to be most effective, which means he’ll definitely need to find the right situation in the NBA. Teams should not discount the skill-level he brings to the table as a pure scorer, though, as its clear that he wasn’t such a highly regarded player coming out of high school for nothing.

Najeh Davenpoop

June 23rd, 2009
4:23 am

- Is it possible to have a discussion about Tyler Hansbrough and not compare him exclusively to players of his own race?

- In a structured half-court system like the one the Hawks run, where defense is a priority and front court players don’t get the ball, I wonder if acquiring Amare for Josh Smith would even be that much of an upgrade. Then again, this rumor is a product of Stephen A. Smith’s Twitter, which is only one step ahead on the credibility ladder from Chad Ford talking about Darko Milicic.

- I’ve been paying closer attention to clips of Wayne Ellington ever since Woodson practically had an orgasm over his post-workout wardrobe, and I gotta say the Hawks could do a lot worse than him at #19. He’s not a great athlete, but he’s a guy who can make shots from everywhere (not just 3’s)… kinda reminds me of a mini-Michael Redd, another non-lottery pick who outperformed his draft status. It would be really surprising if he turned into an All Star like Redd, but he is a similar kind of player. With the free agent decisions the Hawks are facing, I could see them picking Ellington to replace Flip Murray so that they can concentrate on Bibby and Zaza as their two major re-signing projects.

darrell starks

June 23rd, 2009
4:26 am

If ty lawson is gone and terrence william is there do not pass on him.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

eabrown

June 23rd, 2009
4:27 am

I went to UNC and watched a ton of ACC basketball the past few years. My take on a few UNC and ACC players.

First of all, Hansbrough and Sheldon were two different players in college. Hansbrough has an offensive game that Sheldon only dreamed of. And, I’m not saying that Hans is a great offensive player because he is lacking in areas, such as passing, dribbling, and finding his own shots. However, he will run the floor, get garbage buckets, rebound both ends, and defend his position. Many people forget that he held B. Griffin scoreless for the first 10 minutes before getting in foul trouble this year.

Ellington is a great shooter from anywhere on the court and has improved his playmaking ability every year at UNC. He gives an all out effort on the defensive end, but still has trouble guarding quicker players. But, he rebounded well in spot for his position.

Douglas is a tough tough player, and if he is available in the 2nd round take him. He will bring energy, defense and a quick trigger on offense.

Danny Green in the 2nd is another buy for me. He is not exceptionally great at any one thing, but brings so much to the table as far as defense, rebounding, and shooting that he is worth a pick in the 2nd.

Teague is a sell for me. He has good NBA size, handles, playmaking, and has a decent shot. The problem is that I watched him get challenged too many times and back down. His teammate James Johnson is a better looking prospect right IMO. A 4/3 right now, but Linas Kleiza in another year or two with a better handle.

The problem with the Hawks looking for a center right now is that everyone in the draft is a few years away.

darrell starks

June 23rd, 2009
4:38 am

I still say trade the pick 19th horford and marvin for bosh this will be a great business move for asg i believe that bosh would resign with the hawks for about 18mill plus go after lebron for about 22mill that 40mill for 2 player and then the hawks can starte there on dynasty just wishfull thinking thats all.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!

darrell starks

June 23rd, 2009
4:42 am

2009 ATL HAWKS
STARTER ACIE, JOE, CHILL, JOSH, BOSH,
BENCH FLIP, MOE, HAKIM WARRICK, CHARLIE V, ZAZA
RESERVE WEST, SOLO.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

darrell starks

June 23rd, 2009
4:44 am

If chill dont comeback let hakim warrick starte.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!

Ed

June 23rd, 2009
4:48 am

Well Sekou’s pulled a fast one on us. In his newest mock draft he has the Hawks taking James Johnson.

Ed

June 23rd, 2009
5:15 am

Here’s the link for Sekou’s latest mock draft

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/mock

doc

June 23rd, 2009
7:48 am

mike, have you forgotten the debacle of marvin from unc? if you havent done it you have to learn it. some of this might show up in trials but having seen the impact of such recent stars from the acc of shels, marvin and reddick among others i am suspect at the formula schools of any of their players including lawson. just saying. thad young had out performed all of th recent guys from unc in the last five years. if you dont play defense and have a heart to play defense you rarely learn it, different “dirty” mindset to an offensive player. it is the difference in a wide receiver and corner in football. easier to teach the corner to play offense than the other way around. my emphasis and concern on him is he is very one dimensional. can he compete on the floor or only at the three point contest at the all star game?

doc

June 23rd, 2009
7:56 am

johnson sounds like a facsimile of chills in what he does and brings to the court physically though a bit more meat on him.

Sautee

June 23rd, 2009
8:18 am

ATCQ, Najeh,

Don’t get me wrong here,”cause I am NOT trying to defend Sund, nor do I have ANY idea about the particulars of this, but………

Does anyone know whether his drafting 3 bigs in consecutive years came from ownership leaning on him to “get bigger”?

We (including me) ASSUME that he’s “infatuated”with big projects, but does anybody (other than his staff) KNOW that he wasn’t given marching orders to do what he did?

Just sayin….

mwilltru15

June 23rd, 2009
8:53 am

If it hasn’t happened yet, everyone needs to wake up about Hansbrough and his size. He measured out better than Griffin at the combine and the athletic tests showed better than most give him credit for. He’s going to be a very good pro, especially with his improved shot, his basketball IQ and his work ethic. He will contribute immediately to whatever team drafts him.

combine measurment results……. http://www.nbadraft.net/node/6156

JSS

June 23rd, 2009
9:14 am

For all of you Hawk Speculators… I want to share how the LA Times presents their Blog on the Lake Show…
http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakersblog/2009/06/mitch-kuphcak-exit-interview.html

Tell me what you think?

By the way, you have to work on setting picks… Hortford screens well, ZaZa at least tries… Marvin, Josh, Solo, and the others are just horrible… Stop blaming the coaches, players must work on their games some times… Enjoy the draft…

Sekou Smith

June 23rd, 2009
9:24 am

Sorry folks, I shut it down before the Twitter revolution started up around here last night.

Someone reporting that the Hawks are interested in Amare on a Twitter page isn’t really worth discussing here. Amare’s name has not come up in any conversation I’ve had with anyone about anything related to the Hawks, Josh Smith or the draft or anything else. But hey, if it’s on Twitter …

There will be another mock draft from me Ed, in Thursday’s AJC. That’s the one you can nail me on if I’m off by a long shot. But wouldn’t it be interesting if a player like James Johnson fell into the Hawks’ lap. When a guy like that falls (projected higher but goes lower for whatever reason), it’s usually a boon for the team that snags him. Guys like Tayshaun Prince, David West, Jameer Nelson, Josh Smith and on and on. Just a thought.

A Tribe Called Quest

June 23rd, 2009
9:54 am

Sautee,

Maybe Sund was given orders, but that still doesn’t mean he’s a capable GM in terms of drafting.

Anyone else see that ludicrous trade rumor reported on Realgm of Rondo and Jesus Shuttlesworth for Stuckey, Rip Hamilton, and Prince? The Pistons “immediately” rejected the trade. LOL. Wtf was Boston thinking?

Mike is back

June 23rd, 2009
9:56 am

Sekou, you caught me…I was just about to respond to that rumor. At lease it sounds like something is going on and I will leave it at that.

Astro Joe

June 23rd, 2009
10:01 am

Sautee & Ray, what’s the origin of Sund being pushed by ownership to draft 3 consecutive centers? Is there any history of the Starbuck’s guy being involved in building the roster? Seems like a very strange strategy, even if you get 3 winners. (The Petro pick is easy to explain. It was an awful draft and he was chosen at #25. He probably was the BPA. The other two were lottery picks… hard to explain Swift & Sene).

newkid, you were critical of Sund waiting until the last minute to produce his draft board and suggested that the Falcons would never wait until the 11th hour to do the same. Bradley made a very good point in a subsequent column. The NFL goes through a period of free agency prior to the draft, so TD knew that he had to replace Brooking, Foxworth, Milloy, etc. and that he didn’t need to draft a TE. Unfortunately, the NBA does it differently. An NBA GM can’t pinpoint roster gaps with the same level of certainty. Sund can (and will) build scenarios for life with/without Bibby, but he doesn’t know for certain that he has an issue (like the Jets knew for certain they needed a QB entering the draft). Bottom line, you can’t equate the NBA draft to the NFL draft. Apples to oranges.

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
10:01 am

Doc,

Do you really consider playing DB part of defense (me being a former DB)? We refer to that position as “Being on an Island”. Although, DB’s are normally the team best athlete, they don’t want any part of tackling (i.e. keep your uniform clean) and the last thing a DB want to see is a linemen coming around that corner on a running play. Rule #1, do not engage with a linemen. Get low when you come in contact with them big fellas….:)

terrell barron

June 23rd, 2009
10:11 am

Celtics offer Rondo and Allen to Pistons. Wow! Lets offer JJ and Acie. We might lose JJ anyway, and Allen’s contract is expiring.

terrell barron

June 23rd, 2009
10:12 am

And then we could build around Rondo, Smith, and Horford.

Astro Joe

June 23rd, 2009
10:18 am

Sekou, I’ve been banging on the drum for the Hawks to add a ‘tweener to the bench for about 6 months. So I have some interest in James Johnson. But didn’t dude gain like 25 pounds since the NCAA tournament? (Meanwhile, Blair lost about 20-25 pounds and seemingly has snatched Johnson’s spot in the top half of the draft). Sund needs to change the culture and needs to bring in guys who “get it” and want to compete. Attitude and aptitude. If he drafts Johnson, he better know that dude won’t go down the Hot Plate Williams path.

Marcus Williams fell like a brick in few years ago too. How did that work out?

Astro Joe

June 23rd, 2009
10:20 am

tb, do you know why they are reportedly looking to trade Rondo?

G-Man

June 23rd, 2009
10:21 am

terrell barron,

I think rondo is a good player, but I don’t think the hawks could handle the rebellious personalities of rondo and smith on the same team.

jhan

June 23rd, 2009
10:37 am

James Johnson – plays SF/PF – I expect a resounding NO to this draft pick. Most of the blog seems to think Psyco-T would be a horrible pick. Why would this guy be different?

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
10:40 am

Didn’t Rondo and Josh play together in High School at Oak Hill? Man, i can see those two teamming up on Woody now. Make him grow his hair, just so he could pull it back out…

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
10:44 am

If the Hawks are going to keep Acie then I wouldn’t mind seeing them pick a guy that can play multiple position like T.Williams, Earl Clark or Johnson. No need for them to pick a PG that’s going to ride the pine or make Acie a permanent fixture on the bench…

A Tribe Called Quest

June 23rd, 2009
10:48 am

I don’t understand these trade rumors at all.

Why are the Clippers shopping around Camby / Kaman? Blake Griffin is a POWER FORWARD. They already have a great power forward in Zach Randolph who Rich Bucher did not mention in any trade rumors. That’s the player they need to trade, not Camby or Kaman. Or they should trade C or K and also ZBO. ZBo is a sick basketball player who people don’t talk enough about.

Cleveland is reportedly interested in Eddy Curry and Kaman. LOL they are banking their whole offseason on shutting down Dwight Howard. They will have a rude awakening next year when they are #2 in the East behind Boston and get bounced by the Celts.

And any team that takes Ben Wallace/Pavlovic for a star/big contract/Shaq should be barred from ever being in the NBA again. Memphis should fall under that list after winning the title for the Lakers this year. That team has to be depressing to play on, since NO ONE thinks they will throw money toward winning. That Smoove contract offer wasn’t too bad

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
10:51 am

AJ, Brandon Bass is a Free Agent…

Steve

June 23rd, 2009
10:53 am

Anyone but BJ Mullens! Please!

And Lester Hudson in round 2 would be outstanding.

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
10:54 am

Tribe, the proble is, no one WANTS Zach randolph. He doesn’t play defense, doesn’t run the floor, and he’s overpaid…..HUGE contract, he shoots threes but he’s not even as good as rasheed at it.

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
10:55 am

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
10:56 am

Can I please get a cookie, HOW LONG have I been telling you guys about Lester Hudson? It’s been Months…

doc

June 23rd, 2009
10:58 am

aj, i saw a blip that said rondo and doc were at odds.

melvin guess i am ole school and showing my age. the db’s i was around in high school were the steeliest and toughest minded of the group. i guess that was pre deion era db’s. you know the type of MEN that hung out at the raiders and steeler facilities. sorry you missed out on some fun if you werent a head hunter.

personally, i got stuck at center so i ran into a lot of linebacker forearms that knocked me silly and i always preferred playing defense whether it was football, soccer or basketball. it was a lot more fun to play d line than o center. guess i even did it in baseball being a pitcher. making the point it is a different mindset to defend than to “create” and score. one is head on the other evasive.

jhan my guess is the guy is more athletic and more of what we need to make up for the zaza and chill loss as he is closer to the mix of the two than tyler. i guess i would vote johnson if given the choice. i also dont think we get a shot at lawson, johnson or tyler where we pick. the only qualifier to that is more teams are going to pick for need just like the hawks so one of the guys might fall and i dont have a clue as to the needs or wants of each 18 teams in front of us. not many real projects except thabeet or mullins who i doubt we have the patience for as fans unless we go back a few steps to lottery again. since the projects are few then we might not get a break.

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
10:58 am

We Need Chris Kaman! SPeedy+Mo Evans for Kaman…..Draft Danny Geen in the 2nd to replace MO.(or draft Curtis Jerrels hehehe…..)

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
11:00 am

Where are you guys getting this junk about Ellington not being athletic from? He had some of the best measuremnts at the pre-draft combine. He doesn’t use his athletecisim nearly ehough, but he’s very athletic.

Astro Joe

June 23rd, 2009
11:04 am

Ariose, yes, but Bass’ salary will double #19.

Tribe, I’m sure that the Clips would prefer to move Randolph but they won’t find many interested teams. Honestly, the Cavs should go after Randolph. LeBron would likely be able to keep him in his place and teams would not be able to double both Randolph and LeBron. So one of them would be able to score at will on each possession.

terrell barron

June 23rd, 2009
11:09 am

Tribe, the reason they’re trying to trade Kaman or Camby is because THEY CAN. Nobody would deal for Randolph and his outrageous contract.
Astro, I have no idea. Maybe they’re looking for a score first pg? Maybe they have an eye on a player in the draft? Maybe they plan on going after Bibby? Who knows???

doc

June 23rd, 2009
11:10 am

ok ariose, a klondike or carvel for you if he gets taken by the hawks and makes he roster at the next game we hit on.

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
11:12 am

Doc,

Im the biggest Raiders fan (did I just say that on an Atlanta blog). So I remember Lester Hayes better yet the hard hitting Ronnie Lott on the other side of the Bay area. Those guys would take your head off if you came across that middle. But neon Deion “Prime Time” Sanders wasn’t going to tackle a fly. I learn all of my “Get Low” techniques from him. Besides being quick, he was very strong. He had a heck of a jam technique at the line. However, he was the greatest DB ever. Never seen a man shut down one side of the field like he did. Made the other 10 guys job easier. Good as those guys were, you will never see them engage with a linemen…:)

terrell barron

June 23rd, 2009
11:14 am

Doc, dont forget about Sean May and Juan Dixon. They haven’t exactly set the world on fire either.

Daniel

June 23rd, 2009
11:16 am

Astro Joe- good point on James Johnson. Very strange choice Sekou. I take it that you will back off that pick for Thurs. “official” draft prediction. I am holding out hope that TD is still available in the 2cd round.

Astro Joe

June 23rd, 2009
11:23 am

tb, supposedly, Rondo gets on his teammates (and coach’s) nerves. The reports are that he is very moody, runs hot/cold with his co-workers. And so they don’t know if they want to invest long-term in someone with those issues. My guess is that they are floating these trade rumors to expedite his maturity.

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
11:25 am

“But he was hardly dominant. He started just twice and only played 20 minutes per game.”

I admit I didn’t watch Ohio State play this season but to findout that BJ Mullens only started 2 games out of 33. Really worries me. Marvin i can understand after playing on a championship team but it wasn’t like Mullens was playing behing Oden or the 7 footer (Kosta?) that got drafted by Utah last year. Is he worth the gamble at #19? Again, I haven’t seen him play so I want pass judgement.

terrell barron

June 23rd, 2009
11:29 am

Sekou, James Johnson, with Young, Teague, Clark, Ellington, and Douglass still on the board? Idk about that. I like him though. He can play the 2, the 3, and the 4,. He’d be a nice piece off the bench.

Big Ray

June 23rd, 2009
11:30 am

Astro Joe,

There is no origin, as it was a bit of straw. My point was that we don’t know why Sund did what he did in Seattle. I’ll assume Seattle needed a solid center/big man, and that’s why he did it. It’s as safe an assumption as thinking that the owner wanted him to do it, is it not? That was my point. Who cares? I admit to skepticism and still think that he has an affinity for big men, to a point.

But once more, we cannot ignore the fact that he was in a different situation there, than he is here. If you’re a Seattle fan, I can understand bashing him for his picks. I’m not, so having looked at it from that perspective, I really no longer give a damn what he did in the draft there. And it’s not just him. He may make the final call, but his assistant and the rest of the crew are all responsible.

You know, kinda like how we can’t just look at Woody when it comes to coaching issues, we also have to look at his staff?

You can bash him now if it feels good. I’ll wait until after he screws up to do that. In the meantime, I’ll leave my GM bashing for a guy who used a bunch of our lottery picks, largely on something he already had stockpiled. Oh, and he did it while working for the Hawks…not some other team…

Mike is back

June 23rd, 2009
11:40 am

Doc, you make a valid point…to say that recent UNC draftees have underachieved would be an under statement…with such lofty goals and storied tradition…it to be expected when you have as many players as UNC has opting for the NBA after one or two years in college.

U know I’m a Demon Deacon now…so I will delight in your disdain for UNC players…can u come with som for GT too. Heh heh

jhan

June 23rd, 2009
11:44 am

doc – I would probably take the other “JJ” over Hansbrough also.

Sautee was right about our “JJ” – we need to know his long term plans. I think it would be difficult to get another “star” quality player to come here if JJ was gone. We would probably have to buy into Sund’s idea of having top 10 players at every position.

terrell barron

June 23rd, 2009
11:44 am

Doc, that same GM also brought in Chills, Smith, Horford, JJ, and Bibby. He also tried to fire our beloved Head Coach. Get off of B.K’s ….!

Daniel

June 23rd, 2009
11:45 am

Ariose- I like adding Brandon Bass to the team, Paul Millsaps is also available.

terrell barron

June 23rd, 2009
11:50 am

Milsaps isn’t going anywhere, especially with Boozer being unrestricted.

terrell barron

June 23rd, 2009
11:56 am

Mike, ever heard of Randolph Childress? lol!!

A Tribe Called Quest

June 23rd, 2009
12:06 pm

Cleveland probably should go after Randolph. He definitely is not overpaid. Have you guys seen him play? The guy was scoring 30 points at will this year as he has done before. He can score 35 point easy, and I believe he destroyed us in ATL. His defense sucks, but he’d do well on Cleveland. He even said “no one can guard me” a few months ago. A man with that confidence is worth looking at (not for us because we have our own emotionally immature player in Smoove.

A Tribe Called Quest

June 23rd, 2009
12:10 pm

Can someone then please tell me how the Clips plan to get get Blake Griffin minutes if they can’t trade ZBo? I doubt Griffin can play center, ZBo certainly can’t, and ZBo makes way too much money and scores way too much to not play 30+ min a game

Hoops

June 23rd, 2009
12:37 pm

MANY RUMORS for THE HAWKS!!!

Draft Night Rumors:

1. Hawks trade Josh Smith and R. Morris to the Suns for Amare Stoudemire and pick #14. The Hawks will draft the best available PG (Flynn, Lawson, or Holiday). (Hawks will make that deal if available)

2. Hawks trade Speedy Claxton, Acie Law, and the #19 pick to the Clippers for Chris Kaman. (Hawks will make that deal if available)

3. Hawks trade the #49 pick to the Magic for JJ Redick. (Hawks will make that deal if available)

After July 1 Hopes:

1. Hawks offer Jack or Sessions and sign either.

2. Re-sign Flip, Marvin, and Zaza.

This could be the Hawks line up in 2009-10:

PG-Sessions/Jack, #14 pick
SG-JJ, Flip, Redick
SF-Marvin, Mo Evans
PF-Stoudemire, Kaman
C-Horford, Zaza

WOW!!! Let’s go to work with that front line!!!

doc

June 23rd, 2009
12:42 pm

terrell i imust have missed something i wrote. i have never been a fan of the way bk conducted business but i also said he brought in some players at both memphis and here that showed they could compete. the only thing west did in memphis was to bring in a coach and successfully fire the bk hire then conduct a fire sale. ;-)

mike how is this buzzzzzz! got two daughters now at uga so i have to mind my tongue a bit around them.

melvin, ounce for ounce my yorkshire terrier sounds tougher than you. i saw him jump german sheppards when they wandered too close to his yard. guess you know how to dance and shimmy too, like prime time.

terrell barron

June 23rd, 2009
12:52 pm

Rick Sund drafted 16 players as the Sonics GM, and NEVER drafted an All-Star. Just a thought.

terrell barron

June 23rd, 2009
12:55 pm

How cool would it be to have Toney Douglass on the Hawks and his brother Harry on the Falcons?

niremetal

June 23rd, 2009
1:14 pm

ZBo makes way too much money and scores way too much to not play 30+ min a game

There are so, so, so many ways in which that’s not right. Wally Sczerbiak being exhibit A. Marbury being exhibit B. Kirilenko, Odom…Lots of guys get paid tons and come off the bench or get less than 30 per. I agree Randolph will get 25 or so per game, but Dunleavy will have NO problem finding minutes for Griffin.

Also, you can have two guys who play the same position and give them both minutes. Griffin is quick enough to spend some spot time at the 3 and is strong enough to do spot duty at the 5.

Lastly, Dunleavy plays with deep rotations. He’ll find minutes for everyone.

Big Ray

June 23rd, 2009
1:22 pm

Terrell,

For the sake of stirring up an argument, how many of those picks were lottery picks?

Now, how many lottery picks did Billy have HERE, and how many of the picks he had HERE ended up being all-stars?

heh heh heh…yes, I’m as bored as you are…

Big Ray

June 23rd, 2009
1:23 pm

Meant to say how many draft picks OVERALL did Billy have here, and how many were all-stars. Answer is easy…

ant banks

June 23rd, 2009
1:23 pm

RICHARD JEFFERSON TO THE SPURS- E.S.P.N.

here we go again. teams makin’ bold moves gettin’ better and nothin’ outta hawksville. why do the hawks always wait until august 1 to start beatin’ the bushes for prospective free agents. i wish for once i could get some good news early and often about the hawks

jerrywest

June 23rd, 2009
1:26 pm

Its easy to get role players with the vet minimum. Why waste it on a 1st rounder. We should pick the best player in the long run. Period.

terrell barron

June 23rd, 2009
1:35 pm

Jefferson to SA for Bowen??

terrell barron

June 23rd, 2009
1:37 pm

Big Ray, Horford and Smith will make an All-Star appearance. And maybe even Marvin.

terrell barron

June 23rd, 2009
1:38 pm

BK’s only bust was Shellhead.

terrell barron

June 23rd, 2009
1:39 pm

And your’re right Big Ray, I’m bored.

Astro Joe

June 23rd, 2009
1:41 pm

Melvin, if a center is available to be chosen at #19, there’s a fairly HUGE chance that he is a bonafide project. Like Sekou said, supply and demand. And in this draft, with only 1 lottery-level center, any other center chosen is most definitely a roll of the dice. And that’s why BK was trying to build a different type of team. Instead of waiting for that mythical bonafide center to fall into your team’s lap, try to build a winning team using a different formula. He made mistakes along the way but I’m not sure the strategy is flawed. Kind of like deciding to go to the airport through downtown vs. using the perimeter. You could have the right idea and still execute incorrectly, (say if you get caught behind grandma in her Dodge Dart). What BK failed to recognize, was the migration of the league being ruled by PGs (likely due to the hand-check rule).

Now, I think, we’re about to quickly move to the era of the shooter. With more “combo guards” looking to take their man off the dribble, more and more open jumpers will be available. I’m less worried about Derrick Rose and more worried about the Wizards. I just think that a healthy Arenas to go with Nick Young, a developing McGhee, Jamison, Caron and Blatche (if he ever becomes consistent) and a coach like Flip pulling the levers… that’s far more scary to me that Rose running around the floor. And because I believe that Orlando has helped usher in the era of the shooter, we really need to keep Marvin (and to a lesser degree, bring back Bibby). It’s also why I’m so intrugud by Tony Douglas.

Astro Joe

June 23rd, 2009
1:43 pm

That Bucks-Spurs trade could improve Milwaukee’s ability to keep Sessions and/or Villanueva.

A Tribe Called Quest

June 23rd, 2009
1:50 pm

niremetal, Zach Randolph is far better than any of those players you mentioned. It’ll be interesting to see how Dunleavy works the rotation.

Speaking of Dunleavy, he is one of the biggest losers in the last 8 years in the NBA, yet he is the only coach not to get fired out of the doo-doo coaches (like Woodson). Is this all because of Sterling?

HawkKingBibby

June 23rd, 2009
1:50 pm

JAMES JOHNSON !!!!!! If he is there at 19 thats just crazy. Sekou is there anything you are hearing that makes you think he will fall or is it just wishful thinking. Im hoping Curry falls too, lol. DO YOU REALIZE WE WILL HAVE JJ AND JJ JUNIOR if that happens lol (Johnson falling).

A Tribe Called Quest

June 23rd, 2009
1:58 pm

Our assistant GM (David Pendergraft–can people please learn to spell his name right?) provided some gems in his interview yesterday with Hawks.com:

“What we are hoping to get in this draft is a player who can help us. If a guy in our rotation goes down with an injury, you’d like to get someone who can maybe pick up some of those minutes. We were a playoff team last year, and we think we’ll be a playoff team next year. So another option is to get a guy who has the potential to be a starter”

Wow, we want a player who can help us! I would have never known that was the purpose of the draft! I thought the purpose of the draft was to pick players who made your team worse! Didn’t Billy Knight say “we are hoping to draft a player who will make our team better” after the 2007 lottery?

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
2:11 pm

Doc,

I would sell out on a run play if I had to. Other than that, just stay at home and hold containment until the finishers (i.e. linebackers) got there to crack some heads… Keep the Jersey clean, babe…

[...] “I felt like I needed an ice bath after watching his 90-minute workout.” – Hawks assistant Larry Drew after watching Psycho Hansbrough’s bring the effort and move the Richter scale. [...]

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
2:24 pm

Astro and Big Ray,

Didn’t Sund sign Calvin Booth to big contract? What about Jerome James? Did he get that big contract from Seattle or the Knicks????

G-Man

June 23rd, 2009
2:28 pm

Hoops,

Can you cite the sources of those rumors?

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
2:28 pm

Kobe may have to deal with another guy (Duncan) that has 4 rings in order to get his 5th. Yep, the Spurs will be back next season. Parker, Manu, Richardson and Ducan. I bet they are gonna sign Rasheed as well. For all the praise he got, let’s see if Mr. Pau Gasol can handle Duncan (the greatest PF ever) in the paint…

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
2:32 pm

G-Man,

I think there’s a major problem with Hoops rumor #1. Wasn’t it establish that we couldn’t trade Smoove until August, after his contract becomes 1 yr old…

G-Man

June 23rd, 2009
2:34 pm

Melvin,

Eventhough that trade was a steal for the spurs, now they are lacking in depth. They probably need to use the MLE for distribution purposes for other free agents rather than going for a homerun with the full MLE.

doc

June 23rd, 2009
2:40 pm

tb, you must be bored to try and rile me with pot shots. geez.

tb, on that subject, i guess woody missed the memo on how many great draft picks he got through the years. heh heh

yeah a bit bored myself.

where is andro to talk about the williams draft and jj trade fiasco when you need him? fatherhood tamed him but good.

Rod from College Park

June 23rd, 2009
2:44 pm

Spurs will be back next year. How will you stop Duncan, Jefferson, Parker and Ginobilli? They just became the big 4. The Hawks should be following this blueprint. Get 2 or three unstoppable players, and play a little defense. We already have Joe and Josh. We need another scorer, like Jefferson, to take the pressure off of Joe.

doc

June 23rd, 2009
2:45 pm

g-man they somehow had enough depth to do well during the season only to falter with the playoffs without ginobli. there top four look pretty awesome and i figure pops can coach up whoever he needs to work around that foursome.

ok now, “clean shirt melvin”, csm for short, has a ring to it.

doc

June 23rd, 2009
2:47 pm

rod we got four already: jj, josh, al and MARVIN at the right price if we resign him! ;-)

UGA

June 23rd, 2009
2:48 pm

I bet the Spurs will make a run at ZaZa, they need a center and would probably start him next to Duncan.

bigdave

June 23rd, 2009
2:53 pm

According to the Cameron Crazies
Hansbrough= Travel… Travel… Every Time!!

yea Sautee i was a bit perplexed by the Sekou quote…

Astro Joe

June 23rd, 2009
2:53 pm

When a guy like Jefferson goes to a team like the Spurs, he knows that he will be the 4th option and if he does his job, will be able to truly compete for a ring. He goes there knowing that his principle mission will be to defend Kobe, Carmelo and other elite wing players in that conference.

I know he isn’t an exciting player or brand name, but I wouldn’t mind getting Kurt Thomas. Milwaukee will try to move Gadzuric (makes more than Thomas for an extra year than Thomas), but I always did like Kurt’s old school toughness and ability to make the open jumper. He has to be the leading candidate to seek a buy-out from his current team (like Joe Smith & McDyess last year). Talking about attitude and aptitude… let’s grab Thomas once he is able to be traded again.

Mike is back

June 23rd, 2009
2:59 pm

Doc, UGA great football school…SEC not a problem…GT big problem…It will be hard not to root for Favors…I told pumpkin she might have to cut me slack on that one.

TB, Yeah I heard of him…the cat could flat shot the rock…but it’s been a while since that name came across radar.

ant banks, my sentiments exactly…all you ever hear is chatter from teams in the ATL…while the serious players are in the back ground making move…we always find an obstacle or crutch to hold on to.

UGA

June 23rd, 2009
2:59 pm

The Hawks need a veteran leader, and Thomas would fit that bill. What a great influence he could be on Smoove.

jhan

June 23rd, 2009
3:04 pm

Sounds like Pendergraft wants to draft somebody that can help “this” season as opposed to someone with “potential”

niremetal is right – some people choose to disregard the context.

Why doesn’t every team have 3 unstoppable players? – because there aren’t that many to go around.

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
3:05 pm

The spurs still have Roger Mason (SG/SF), Michael Finley (SG/SF) and George Hill(PG/SG) on the bench. All they have to do now is sign a big man (Rasheed) and bring back big shot Robert Horry for the dagger in Kobe eyes…

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
3:09 pm

Astro,

I agree on Kurt Thomas. He would definitely bring some toughness and smack Josh (still my dude) upside the head if needed.

Kurt Thomas (aka Kevin Costner) = Woody BodyGuard against Josh….

Astro Joe

June 23rd, 2009
3:33 pm

Melvin, somehow, I can’t envision Kurt Thomas pulling any popcorn stunts. In addition to giving Josh the “gas face”, I think he would also have a friendly word or three when Joe and Bibby get shot-happy. If there is ongoing beef between Smith and Joe, Thomas may be the perfect addition, because he would be equally hated by both sides.

O'Brien

June 23rd, 2009
3:34 pm

AJ,

I agree. That trade increases the likelihood that the Bucks can keep both Charlie V and Sessions. I still think Jarrett Jack is the guy the Hawks should sign (not Bibby).

Rumor has it that Portland is looking to make some trades, because they are the second youngest team in the NBA, and they dont want to get younger.

The Hawks have their work cut out for them. I think Philly will be better, Detroit will be better, Washington will be better, Charlotte will be better, the Bulls will be better. It will be hard for the Hawks to secure a top 4 seed again, unless they make some major moves.

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
3:51 pm

Astro,

If we can’t get Captain Kurt then I wouldn’t my see us sign McDyess. I doubt if he resign with the Pistons to join their rebuilding stage.

O’brien,

All those teams you name have to catch us. If we resign our top 4 FA, at the least, we will beat all those teams. However, I would like to see some upgrades to catch the Big 3 (Boston,Clevland,Orlando) in front of us. I’m not so concern with the teams that finish below us…

Astro Joe

June 23rd, 2009
3:55 pm

OB, Portland is both young and soft… not a good combination for post-season success. And we should no, we’re slightly less young and lsightly less soft but still not where we should be in those departments. I read that Portland would like to get their hands on Hinrich. Y’all know how I feel about Hinrich. But even beyond an upgrade at PG, I think they will need to do something in their front-court, because Aldridge is as intimidating as a Care Bear… in a dress… with pearls… and pony tails.. and, well, you get the point.

niremetal

June 23rd, 2009
4:00 pm

Did someone really just say that Zach Randolph is better than Lamar Odom? Well, I guess if you’re for stats over a guy who can help you win, I guess that’s true.

cp

June 23rd, 2009
4:13 pm

Fellas yahoo sports has video on almost every prospect in this years draft. If you have time go check it out. If I knew how to do the links I would. Maybe Ariose or somebody could do it. Much better than the clips I have seen on youtube…

James Johnson is a good player. Has handles, can score in the paint and the perimeter. His problem is his work ethic and conditioning. It has been reports that he has not shown he cares in some of his workouts. Phoenix brought him back because they didn’t like his first work out. I don’t know if him and Woody would mesh but if he could get his attitude right and his conditioning he would be a steal at 19.

As far as Sheldon, well I saw bust the whole time. I watched a lot of Duke games and it was obvious he wasn’t that good. He had bad footwork, terrible hands, could not guard the athletic pf’s and centers, and got a lot of “Duke” calls in his benefit, was slow, and was not athletic at all. Was a terrible pick from jump.

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
4:26 pm

CP,

I think it speak volumes when a player is not in good condition (non injury related) during predraft workouts. If he is not mature enough or don’t care enough to make sure he’s at his best during workouts than what should you expect to see from him over a 6 month span while being paid big bucks… Not in shape, would be a major Red Flag for me….

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
4:28 pm

CP,

James Johnson, can you say another Sean May possibly? You can find Sean May at all the night clubs in Charlotte on any given night….

jerrywest

June 23rd, 2009
4:38 pm

we need to help the Blazers steal Torkoglu out of Magic.

terrell barron

June 23rd, 2009
4:44 pm

Your’re right Astro. Looks like we just lost out on Sessions.

Astro Joe

June 23rd, 2009
4:49 pm

I remember when Marcus Williams (PG from UCONN) was going thru the pre-draft process. A lot of folk were high on him (including bloggers here on Sekou’s spot). I recall that he failed to finish one of his pre-draft workouts because he was in bad condition. He ultimately fell down to around #20 I think. Now dude had other issues and you can never tell how is right/wrong when it comes to Don Nelson (who ran off C-Webb, Al Harrington and imminently Jamal Crawford to name a few). But Williams did squat in NJ and the same in the Bay area and I think that he is looking for a team.

After watching the Hawks fail to compete in several playoff games, I just can’t get behind drafting a guy who can’t get himself together for job interviews.

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
4:51 pm

TB,

If the Bucks select a PG, I think they may let Sessions go. I think that move they made was to make sure they were able to resign Charlie V. However, I would like to see the Hawks go after Channing Frye. Young big with skills that could play the 4/5.

Hoops

June 23rd, 2009
4:53 pm

My sources – Stephen A Smith and ESPN of course. Some of these rumors are from some people on this blog. I was just summarizing what has been already talked about. I doubt any will happen.

doc

June 23rd, 2009
4:54 pm

if johnson cant stay in shape for this moment forget about him. deron williams did the opposite and lost 20 pounds and has kept it off. it also says he isnt listening because his agent is whispering something strongly suggestive of “work out dude” in his ear.

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
4:57 pm

It’s funny that the Bucks/Spurs made a trade today but there were no rumors prior to that trade happening….hmmmmmm

Astro Joe

June 23rd, 2009
5:07 pm

Melvin, you mean that trades happen without the blogosphere learning about it in advance? Say it ain’t so. GMs MUST discuss their plans and intentions with fans prior to making a move. How dare they conduct business in privacy. I’m sure Spurs and Bucks fans are irate right now.

Sekou Smith

June 23rd, 2009
5:12 pm

Great deal for the Spurs. I said it last week Melvin, the best deals are usually the ones you don’t see coming.

richbrave

June 23rd, 2009
5:44 pm

ESPN is sayin’ RICHARD JEFFERSON to the WIZ for — get this, ETAN THOMAS and MIKE JAMES. O.K. let’s do it. What seance did that reporter just emerge from?

Big Ray

June 23rd, 2009
5:53 pm

“I think they will need to do something in their front-court, because Aldridge is as intimidating as a Care Bear… in a dress… with pearls… and pony tails.. and, well, you get the point.”

Oh THAT guy. The one who dropped 24 points and 11 rebounds on us on February 20th, then had a paltry 19 and 6 against us on March 15th. Good thing he’s soft or he might have actually done some damage. Yessir, that was a very soft 20 points and 7/8 rebounds he had in the playoffs, too. We damn sure don’t need any softies like that, and the Blazers should be cursing themselves for having traded for his soft butt. Lord knows our frontcourt players have never been that soft…uh…um….

:) :) :) :) :)

niremetal

June 23rd, 2009
6:02 pm

Bowen’s minutes took a nosedive this year, so you had to see this coming. I’ll tell you what, though – this was a win-win trade. Milwaukee was in desperate need of toughness and basketball IQ, and they got it in droves. They’ve been one of the worst teams in the league defensively for awhile. Any/all the Spurs players will bring them some savvy and intensity. My guess is that they keep Oberto and maybe Bowen, but cut Kurt Thomas.

In any case, smart move on both ends. Milwaukee saves some money and gets some veteran help in one fell swoop. And San Antonio gets someone to take more pressure of Duncan and Ginobili, which hopefully will lead to fewer injuries. Jefferson also fits right into their style of play on both ends. They probably have one more title left for Tim now.

Big Ray

June 23rd, 2009
6:02 pm

Melvin,

True that, man. I keep waiting for one of those awesome silent deals around here. I probably shouldn’t hold my breath, although some would have you believe that the defeaning silence we here is a good deal about to happen. Heh…

I’ll bet Bucks and Spurs fans are happy somebody is willing to do something either to meet an immediate need, or at least plan for something shortly down the road to get better. Or, Bucks fans may be irate about losing Jefferson. Who knows. I’m sure fans complain in every NBA city. Nah. That couldn’t be remotely possible. :)

Big Ray

June 23rd, 2009
6:04 pm

Nire,

Spurs are BACK in the West.

niremetal

June 23rd, 2009
6:09 pm

Aldridge definitely is soft. But I get the impression he’ll get tougher as he gets older. I also bet that he WOULD be tougher already if they didn’t have Przybilla and Oden around, which allows him to be rangier in his game.

Not saying I wouldn’t take him in a heartbeat. But he doesn’t exactly strike fear into the heart of anyone on defense.

niremetal

June 23rd, 2009
6:11 pm

Ray,

Most definitely. And remember I said that if the Spurs get rid of Bowen, they make take a crack at Mario? We’ll see…

Nookah

June 23rd, 2009
6:25 pm

The trade made by the Spurs is the perfect example of a team being proactive and doing the necessary things to strengthen it’s squad. Moves like this have a direct corelation with the savy of management. In our case……………..we’ll just react when the proverbial s$$t hits the fan!!!

Go Hawks anyway!!!!

ATL…the home of basketball mediocrity!!!!

j

June 23rd, 2009
6:25 pm

The Hawks NEED to get Rondo. No question about it, the Hawks should trade Josh Smith for Rondo or something like it. I cant believe the Celts are even shopping him

Publix

June 23rd, 2009
6:31 pm

We need to draft Ty Lawson, he will be amazing. If we can’t get him at 19, then trade up to get him. Let Bibby go. Resign the rest of the free agents.

Trade Joe and Acie to Golden State for Crawford and Biedrins.

Sign Villanueva and bring back Andersson.

Start:

PG Lawson
SG Crawford
SF Smith
PF Horford
C Biedrins

Second:

PG Murry
SG Evans
SF Williams
PF Andersson/Villanueva
C Jones

We are a contender if Woodson knows what to do with all of this. You have scorers, speed and enough defense with this team.

Nookah

June 23rd, 2009
6:33 pm

j, how could you ever think of a trade like that? With all due respect my brother we should be trying to catch those in front of us , e.g. Boston, Orlando and the Cavs, not give them motivation to kick our asses? Can you imagine Josh on a Boston team playing against us?

He’d drop a triple double at least 4 times per year.

Go Hawks anyway!!!

niremetal

June 23rd, 2009
6:48 pm

Rondo for Smoove makes no sense for them or for us. But I’ll laugh my butt off if some team mortgages the farm to get Rondo only to discover “Wow, when he doesn’t have 3 Hall of Famers to pass to and keep defenders from doubling him, he kinda sucks.” Not saying I know for a fact that’ll happen. But I’m not impressed by a PG who can’t shoot a lick (64% from the line is pathetic, although I’m sure doc’ll say it’s just because he has perpetually tired legs ;) ) and who we’ve only seen while surrounded by Hall-of-Famers. He seems to get most of his points on layups that are semi-uncontested because he’s the last guy on the floor who’ll draw a double team.

I do like his defensive skills and activity level. But not nearly enough to make me covet him.

Najeh Davenpoop

June 23rd, 2009
7:37 pm

The Spurs-Bucks trade was win-win, but not so much because Bowen, Oberto and Thomas will provide Milwaukee with toughness as much as because they provide the Bucks with financial flexibility to re-sign younger players like Ramon Sessions. I’d be surprised if Bowen or Thomas were playing for the Bucks at the end of the 2009-2010 season.

Obviously it’s great for San Antonio in the short term — they desperately needed a boost in athleticism, and Bowen was becoming a shell of his former self at small forward anyway. I just wonder whether RJ’s monster contract, which expires in 2011, will make it tough for the Spurs to re-sign Ginobili when his contract expires after this upcoming season.

For those of y’all complaining that the Hawks should have done more to make a trade like this, the Hawks already used their share of expiring has-beens last year to acquire Bibby. Each team only has so many spare parts they can throw together to acquire a good player on a rebuilding team desperate for cap relief.

glw

June 23rd, 2009
7:41 pm

I think Rondo would play well with our other starters, but I dont see them trading him to us out of fear we might pass them in the standings. And no way would I give up Smoove or any of our core players.

darrell starks

June 23rd, 2009
7:42 pm

WOW santonio gave up nothing for jefferson why cant we make moves to improve the team O well look for the same old hawks.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

ant banks

June 23rd, 2009
7:43 pm

any word on what the hawks will do with solo? even though i liked zaza, i think that solo can do just as well off the bench zaza will want 6mil per. solo can be had for cheaper and might develop with more minutes.

Najeh Davenpoop

June 23rd, 2009
7:46 pm

As for Rondo, I may be biased since he single-handedly carried my fantasy team to the playoffs, but I think the Celtics are certifiably insane if they are looking to trade him. Yeah, he’s surrounded by great players, but when KG was a non-factor in the second half of the season it was Rondo, not Allen or Pierce, who was carrying that team. Of course he still needs a jump shot, but even without it he’s a top 5 point guard in my book. Trading a guy like that at his age is insanity. I can’t really figure out what they think they will get in return that would actually make them better either.

Najeh Davenpoop

June 23rd, 2009
7:47 pm

In particular, if the rumors regarding Rip Hamilton and Rodney Stuckey are true, the Celtics’ brass has really lost its mind. Stuckey is quickly becoming one of the league’s most overrated players. I still haven’t seen him do a damn thing to justify the amount of praise and high regard he gets.

ant banks

June 23rd, 2009
7:51 pm

WIZARD HAVE TRADED THEIR 5TH PICK TO MINNESOTA. MINNESOTA HAS THE 5TH AND 6TH PICK!! WTF!!

come on hawksville!!!

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
7:58 pm

RJ is not better than Marvin Anyway. If Jefferson was the FIFTH OPTION on THIS SQUAD like MARVIN, theres NO WAY you would get 15pts and 7 rebounds out of him. He hasn’t been the same since Kidd left Jersey. Guess he forgot how to score on his own…

Speedy=Mo+Cash for Kaman and their 31st pick. Draft Ellington(19th), Mills(31st), and Trade Down with our 49th pick and draft danny Green(32-44)

Cake….

Najeh Davenpoop

June 23rd, 2009
7:58 pm

Randy Foye and Mike Miller for the 5th pick and some spare parts. Pretty good trade for Minnesota as it gives them two top-6 picks and a lot of flexibility in the draft to possibly trade up or add two solid parts to their team, and I was never all that impressed with Foye anyway. Weird trade for Washington — from what I can see it just looks like a salary shedding trade combined with a huge vote of no-confidence in Gilbert Arenas. I don’t know how Washington plans to get through a whole season with only JaVale McGee and Brendan Haywood down low.

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
7:59 pm

Typo:

Speedy+Mo Evans+Cash for Kaman and their 31st pick. Draft Ellington(19th), Mills(31st), and Trade Down with our 49th pick and draft danny Green(32-44)

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
8:00 pm

Great that means Minnesota will be willing to gieve up their 24th pick. WE SHOULD GET THAT PICK FROM THEM!!!!!!!!

Najeh Davenpoop

June 23rd, 2009
8:02 pm

And from the department of irrelevancy, the Bucks swung newly-acquired Fabricio Oberto to the Pistons for Amir Johnson. Oberto was bought out and is now a free agent.

My guess is they combine for about 200 total minutes of NBA playing time next year.

ant banks

June 23rd, 2009
8:03 pm

ARIOSE

what would you give up for the 24th pick? and you think that we are wrackin’ our brains about the 19th pick what will we do with a 24th pick?

who do you propose we get with that one ariose

doc

June 23rd, 2009
8:04 pm

najeh, thanks for saving me a couple of key strokes. folks wanting a trade dont realize trades are made for players with promise or contracts that end quickly that may be attractive to other teams down the stretch. we have speedy ad only four players that could even be considered desirable by other teams that could be traded and unless folks want to give up al or jj that narrows it even further.

A Tribe Called Quest

June 23rd, 2009
8:08 pm

I realized that my rant about Sund is unwarranted…

This is the city of Atlanta –

where the sports teams think half the teams they play are arival, but the opposing teams think Atlanta is a joke (Celtics, Yankees, etc)

-where no trades are made (Hawks)…Sund and BK wait for everyone else to get better and then claim they are keeping the core together.

When you guys see Amare get traded to some lucky team for a pile of horse manure and a high pick, you will thank me for pointing this out. BUt let’s buy into Sund’s plan of drafting 7″0 stiffs who score 1 ppg and then are in a European league 6 months later

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
8:10 pm

Our startes led us to 47 wins. They must come back. Nothing wrong with them at all. The BENC is where we have a problem.

My Projected bench:

Flip/Acie/Mills
Wayne Ellington/Mario West
Danny Green/Gerald Green
Horford/Zaza/Solo/

Starters:

Mike/Joe/Marvin/Josh/Kaman

If you notice, Mo Evans is not there. He was traded away w/speedy to the clippers for Chris Kaman…..I Also Included Randiolph Morris in the deal…

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
8:12 pm

24???…. PATRICK MILLS BABY!!!!! BEST PG IN THE DRAFT!!!!!!

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
8:13 pm

OR WE COULD GO WITH JEFF TEAUGE IF HE’S STILL THERE.

Blast

June 23rd, 2009
8:13 pm

Good move by Spurs, though R Jefferson’s skill is slowly declining. Now they need to stay healthy, all the big four, but Manu in particular.

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
8:14 pm

BUT HE’S MORE OF A PROJECT. MOST SCOUTS SAY HE NEEDS TO GO BACK TO WAKE FOREST. NOT GOOD AT MAKING PG DECISIONS YET…

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
8:17 pm

MAN SAN ANTONIO IS EITHER REALLY SMART OR REALLY DUMB B/C NOW THEY DON’T HAVE A CENTER. HEY, IS DREW GOODEN STILL ON THEIR ROSTER? I THINK HE’S A FREE AGENT.

Astro Joe

June 23rd, 2009
8:19 pm

Ray, I won’t debate Aldridge. In my book, dude is soft. Doesn’t mean he’s useless, just means that he needs a Charles Oakley type to play next to him. That’s my opinion and a handful of box scores won’t change my mind. Wet toilet tissue soft.

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
8:21 pm

IF ALDRIGE IS SOFT, THEN THAT MEANS CHANNING FRYE IS SCHOOLGIRL SOFT. PLEASE SAY NO TO CHANNING IN FREE AGENCY….

Blast

June 23rd, 2009
8:21 pm

Lakers coach Phil Jackson considering staying home during road games and allowing Kurt Rambis to coach the team. I guess when you win 10 rings, you can do whatever the hell you want to!

Astro Joe

June 23rd, 2009
8:24 pm

Najeh, the rumor was that Pistons were looking to off-load Amir to get enough cap space to go after two elite free agents this summer. Sounds like Dumars got ‘r done. So let’s see how Joe spends his tractor-trailer full of money.

niremetal

June 23rd, 2009
8:25 pm

what would you give up for the 24th pick? and you think that we are wrackin’ our brains about the 19th pick what will we do with a 24th pick?

Exactly. We should be trading out of this draft, not up and CERTAINLY not down (unless we know for damned sure that the guy we would pick at 19 will still be on the board at 24).

And once again, the Wizards’ brass prove that they have to share the 9 brain cells they have amongst all of them. They love to gather guys who have no natural position. They now have two combo guards (Arenas and Foye), a swingman (Butler), a combo forward (Jamison), a tweener big man (McGee), and Haywood. It’s ok when you gather a set of players who can shift between positions and play each position quite well. But of all the guys I listed above, the only one who is someone you’re fully comfortable with as a starter at even one position is Jamison, and he comfortably can start at both forward spots.

All the rest are good playersplay, but they all are true tweeners that are at some disadvantage no matter where you put them. There’s a reason DeShawn freaking Stevenson always guarded the opposing team’s best wing rather than Butler. And there’s a reason Agent Zero is probably the most frustrating player in the East.

Well, I guess they have flexibility now. But why they gave up a #5 pick to get yet another player without a natural position…I just can’t fathom.

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
8:29 pm

Yup….so Wayne Ellington at 19 uh huh….

Speedy+Mo Evans+Cash for Kaman and their 31st pick. Draft Ellington(19th), Mills(31st), and Trade Down with our 49th pick and draft danny Green(32-44)

Our startes led us to 47 wins. They must come back. Nothing wrong with them at all. The BENCH is where we have a problem.

My Projected bench:

Flip/Acie/Mills
Wayne Ellington/Mario West
Danny Green/Gerald Green
Horford/Zaza/Solo/

Starters:

Mike/Joe/Marvin/Josh/Kaman

If you notice, Mo Evans is not there. He was traded away w/speedy to the clippers for Chris Kaman…I Also Included Randiolph Morris in the dea..

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
8:32 pm

WHAT!!! DRAFT MORE PG’S!!!! WE NEED THEM ALL BWAHAHAHA!!!!! LOOK WE DRAFT THE PG’S RIGHT(24TH PICK). THEN WHEN FLIP/MIKE RESIGN WE TRADE THEM TO OTHER TEAMS FOR EITHER CASH/A VET/ OR A FUTERE DRAFT PICK…..

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
8:34 pm

IT’S NOT LIKE WE HAVE TO SIGN THE DRAFTED PLAYER TO A DEAL AS SOON AS WE AQUIRE THEM. WE CAN KEEP THEM IN LIMBO UNTIL WE KNOW WHAT WE’RE GONNA DO AND THEN HANDLE THE DRAFTEES ACCORDINGLY….

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
8:35 pm

ARENAS IS MOT A PLAYMAKER. HE IS A BALL STOPPER. HE’S JUST A BETTER VERSION OF SALIM: UNDERSIZED 2GUARD IN A PG’S BODY.

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
8:36 pm

*I MEANT HE’S NOT AS GOOD FACILITATOR…

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
8:39 pm

ok, I’M MAKING A CHANGE TO MY ROSTER:

REPLACE MARIO WEST WITH ANTHONY PARKER…..I KNOW IT’S SAD TO SEE THE LITTLE FIESTY GUY GO, BUT WE’RE TRYNA WIN A CHAMPIONCHIP HERE. IF HE WANTS TO STAY HE CAN BE THE BALL/WATER BOY OR SOMETHING….

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
8:41 pm

I BET HE SERVES A MEAN GATORAIDE. HE COULD PROBABLY GET THE TOWLES TO THE PLAYERS FASTER THAN ANYONE IN THE LEAUGE…..

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
8:44 pm

…..I’M JUS PLAYIN’…..MARIO IS BETTER THASN THAT….HE COULD BE A DEFENSIVE CONSULTANT AND TEACH THE ROOKIES HOW TO PLAY BETTER DEFENSE….

Big Ray

June 23rd, 2009
8:45 pm

Astro Joe,

I’m not saying Aldridge ain’t soft. I’m saying his soft ass had no problems scoring on us with near impunity. Come on man, the three smiley face icons at the bottom should have clued you in that there was a hook. Aldridge can afford to be “soft” (and produce better stats than OUR frontcourt guys) because he has Pryzbilla and Oden. In the meantime, we couldn’t do much with him. Look at the bright side: I’m not blaming Woody for that.

Hey, soft or not, I’m not talking too much smack about a guy who puts up roughly 19 and 8 in the Western Conference (or any conference for that matter). Tell me, would you take the softie over Josh Smith? Oh my. What a conundrum. Dummy versus softie. Sakes alive…

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
8:47 pm

THEY SHOULD HIRE MARIO TO SMACK WOODY ON THAT BALD HEAD OF HIS EVERYTIME HE ATTEMPS TO DO THE “WAF” ON THE SIDELINES INSTED OF DOING SOME ACTUAL COACHING/PLAYCALLING….

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
8:48 pm

….THATS GONNA BE A LOTTA LUPS…….UH-HUH.

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
8:48 pm

Big Ray

June 23rd, 2009
8:50 pm

At least Dumars will actually spend the money. Maybe even on something good. Then again, this guy DID trade away Billups. Who knows. No such thing as a perfect GM, though some are clearly in better position than others.

Niremetal,

You get braggin’ rights if they do that. You called it first, far as I know! I like to watch the Spurs work, whether it’s offseason or during the season. What a smart pick they made in George Hill. He was picked what, 22nd? Now there is a franchise that can not only make a decent pick tha late in the first round, but actually turn the guy into a rotational player in his rookie year. Yes, I know this is more the exception than the norm. But it CAN be done, even with a true star pg and a veteran backup behind him. And it’s not like the Spurs are rich, or have a huge market.

I give it about an hour (if that) before the usual party crasher(s) come along with fifty reasons why the Spurs can do this, and why we can’t….same $hit that pops up whenever you talk about the Blazers…

Astro Joe

June 23rd, 2009
8:50 pm

Nire, if this Wizards trade is true, I expect another deal to happen…. like maybe for Amare. No way Arenas, Foye, Miller, Caron, Jamison and Nick Young could all co-exist on the same team. This leaves Ernie with a ton of assets to move for a big-time player.

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
8:51 pm

JOSH AIN’T DUMB….TAKE IT BACK RAY!!! I’LL GIVE YOU LUMPS!!!!

BTW…..DUMMY WINS EVERYTIME ;-)

Big Ray

June 23rd, 2009
8:51 pm

Ariose is on FYYAAAAAHHHHHHH!

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
8:55 pm

*FREE!!! ACIE!!! IN 09′*

THATS THA NEW SLOGAN…..

ACIE LAW: “A LAWMAN WE CAN BELEIVE IN”….COP THAT….CLYDE MAKE SOME SHIRTS….

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
8:56 pm

Nire,

Give me Butler all day. That dude is a stud and All-Star. If Arenas is healthy, bring him here two. Tweener or not, those two guys are All-Stars…

Big Ray

June 23rd, 2009
8:57 pm

Ariose,

Now be nice. Woody is a championship caliber coach, he just needs championship caliber players in here. When the players on the court don’t do what they’re supposed to do (rebound, play with energy, play defense, hit shots), it’s not his fault. When they do all those things, he deserves all the credit. Stop hatin’.

Of course Josh is dumb. Haven’t I told you this before? What’s wrong with you? Josh is a dummy! Second highest scorer, second highest rebounder…dumb, dumb, dumb! He turns the ball over. Dumb! He shoots jumpers. Dumb! All those things are dumb! Away with the dummy!

……;)

Big Ray

June 23rd, 2009
9:00 pm

Between Arenas and Foye, the Wiz guarantee themselves an injury-infested backcourt. All they need to do now is add Acie and his hang-nail problem (I heard that somewhere), and Speedy. They can give us whoever they want for those two…and a bag of twizzlers for Sund.

Big Ray

June 23rd, 2009
9:01 pm

Melvin,

Caron Butler is a fake all-star. He scored 20 a game by accident. I heard he’s an injury waiting to happen, and some guy on a blog said he wears soft underwear. Or was it that he used soft toilet paper? I can’t remember….

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
9:05 pm

RAY, SMOOVE’S NOT JUST DUMB, HE’S EXTRA-DUMB. THE WAY HE FOLLOWS WOODY’S PLAYCALLING TO A T, AND CAMPS OUT BEHIEND THE 3PT LINE LIKE HE WAS TOLD IN ORDER TO CREATE SPACE FOR OUR GUARDS TO DRIVE. SO STUPID.

EVEN WHEN IT WOULD JUST BE EASIER FOR WOODY TO PASS HIM THE BALL IN THE POST INSTED OF JOE GETTING TRIPPLED ON HIS WAY TO THE HOLE; HE JUST LISTENS AND FOLLOWS DIRECTIONS LIKE A DUMMY. WHAT AN IDIOT.

SMOOVE IS SUCH A TOOL. IT’S NO WONDER HE GOT BENCHED ;-)

Astro Joe

June 23rd, 2009
9:05 pm

Ray, you neveer heard me say anything bad about Caron. LOOVVVEEE HIM. Tough as nails. I think nire considered him overrated. And since he watches more Wizards games than I, I won’t challenge him.

Sautee

June 23rd, 2009
9:07 pm

DeShawn Stevenson must feel a little queasy about now.

cp

June 23rd, 2009
9:14 pm

lol guys trust me I am not saying draft James Johnson. I was only saying he is a talent but I don’t like guys who show up to something this important way out of shape and lacksadasial..

Najeh Davenpoop I have been saying Stuckey is overrated for a while on here. He is more of a combo guard rather than a pg. He cant shoot but he has good size and he takes it to the hoop strong.

The trades have began and I expect more to come. I see a lot of movement draft night. I wish we could add another pick or two. Ariose give me Gerald Green over Mario everyday of the week. I’m really starting to like what I have seen on your boy Danny Green from the footage on him. He seems a bit underrated. He could easily come in and give Marvin a breather. I would rather have him out there guarding sf’s than Mo Evans.

Astro Joe

June 23rd, 2009
9:14 pm

So what’s the rule on trading a player after he’s been acquired. I think a player can be imediately traded if it is a one-on-one trade (like Oberto for Amir). But I think the team has to wait xx number of days before packaging a recently acquired player with other players (e.g. Foye & Jamison in a package for Amare). How many days?

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
9:17 pm

Well I watched plenty of Wiz, Heat and Laker games over past few years. Thanks to my League Pass, I watch Bulter produce at every stop. I remember Kobe was disappointed when Butler was traded out of LA,LA land…

ant banks

June 23rd, 2009
9:18 pm

does anyone here subscribe to ESPN INsider? is it worth it? i have been gettin’ alot of my info from blogs, si, dime, hoops, etc. does espn have seacret access to info that these other outlets don’t provide?

jus’ askin’

Big Ray

June 23rd, 2009
9:20 pm

Astro Joe,

I am bored beyond my limits. I was picking at anything and everything I could think of that looked good for a slap-stick joke. I like Butler, too. And I know he’s a tough customer. Nire is less impressed, and it’s all good. The price of his acquisition might be too high and too risky. Or….it might be something we could live with.

On your “when can a guy be traded question”, I can shed no light on it without talking out of my anus (and that just ain’t gonna help). You might be able to talk Manny or Nire into cracking open a book on it, though.

It’s a damn good question though.

ant banks

June 23rd, 2009
9:20 pm

somebody mentioned that the lakers won’t need their 30th pick. could the hawks package somethin’ to wrest that 30th pick away from la? and we would have the 19th and 30th pick, plus the 2nd rnd pick

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
9:21 pm

Just saw hightlights of James Johnson on NBATV. My goosh, he reminds me of Rodney Rogers with better ball handling. He does look a little over weight or plumb (see Sean May). Not sure if I would draft that guy depending on who’s available…

Big Ray

June 23rd, 2009
9:22 pm

What with the sudden dearth of “can’t use ‘em all” players on squads like Milwaukee and Washington, it would probably behoove Sund and his crew to explore the possibility of somehow acquiring a useful vet or two, particularly if Zaza bolts.

I assume that you were getting to that, Astro Joe….

Big Ray

June 23rd, 2009
9:24 pm

Ant,

What would we do with more picks? Fill out our bench? We don’t need to fill out our bench with “bubble” picks. We have that problem already.

Melvin,

I liked Rodney Rogers. Another ‘tweener who was successful. James Johnson is an interesting prospect. For whom, I don’t know…

ant banks

June 23rd, 2009
9:29 pm

BIG RAY,

ty lawson at 19 and toney douglas at 30. everyone is swearin’ that these guys are good. and we still ain’t sure about our ability to resign our current guys. this is a safe guard

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
9:36 pm

Man, I can’t take it anymore. Can the Hawks do something? Anything? How about renouncing the rights to Thomas Gardner. All this lip service we are hearing from our GM, Asst GM, Upper Asst GM and Lower Asst GM makes me want to vomit. Can we get some action and less yapping.

doc

June 23rd, 2009
9:38 pm

looks like ariose has an inverse doc look tonight.

Astro Joe

June 23rd, 2009
9:38 pm

Ray, I don’t think tha the Bucks will keep Thomas or Bowen. Those guys appear to be classic “buy-out” vets for the trade deadline. And while I’m sure that Grunfeld’s phone is ringing off the hook, I think he already has a deal made “in principle”. And only if that deal falls through, will he listen to other offers. I think he has a big fish in mind and won’t trade any little fish until he has the big one in the boat.

But some of the piece parts I’d take off the Wizards’ hands are Haywood, McGuire and Blatche.

Big trades usually are the result of moving an awful contract. And as bad as Speedy’s deal was, it really isn’t “awful”. We don’t have awful contracts and thus, I don’t think we’ll see any massive moves.

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
9:41 pm

Ant,

The we would have an All Midget backcourt…lol…

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
9:41 pm

Ant,

Then we would have an All Midget backcourt…lol…

niremetal

June 23rd, 2009
9:44 pm

Of the players in the league who average 20ppg, Butler gets the most open looks and single coverage of anyone. And keep in mind that:

1) Butler is 28. He won’t be better than he is now.
2) Where he is now is the 2nd option on a terrible team or the 3rd option on a mediocre team.
3) He’s Chipper Jones-esque in terms of the consistency of his injuries (ie he misses about 20-30% of the games each year)
4) As I said, he is almost never doubled. And until DeShawn got hurt this year, he never had to worry about guarding the opposing team’s best player. The team went from “bad” to “godawful” defensively when Stevenson got hurt and that’s because for all of Caron’s effort, he rarely slows down the man he’s assigned to guard.

niremetal

June 23rd, 2009
9:45 pm

*29. It’s JJ who’s 28 ;)

niremetal

June 23rd, 2009
9:51 pm

PS – I do like Butler as a player. He leaves it all out there. A guy with his skill set and physique has no business putting up the numbers he does, and the fact that he does is a testament to the work he puts in. I always thought that the ideal role for him would be a SuperSixth Man type role rather than as a second or third option, but the Wizards really never had a choice because of their almost unfathomable lack of offensive depth.

After his next contract is up, I fully expect him to land on a contender, average 13-14ppg, and help his team make deep playoff runs. The man deserves it for the effort he puts in. But I don’t want us to bring him in and try to use him as our second or even third option on offense. I honestly don’t think he’d be a step up from Josh or Marvin on that front, especially considering where they are in their respective careers.

darrell starks

June 23rd, 2009
9:59 pm

a lot of people sleeping on terrence william keep eye on this guy career he will take his game to the next level in the pro.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!

cp

June 23rd, 2009
10:35 pm

Melvin yea James has skills but like I said his desire and conditioning is an issue. He put on a lot of weight he used to be smaller….darrell I have been talking about Terrance Williams for a while now but I think his stock is rising so I doubt he is around when we pick. If he is we should not hesitate to take him.

richbrave

June 23rd, 2009
10:43 pm

RANDY FOYE and MIKE MILLER to the WIZ for the #5 plus three – DARIUS SONGAILA(who I personally will miss), ETAN THOMAS(and his three year contract for 11 mill. plus), and OLEKSIY PECHEROV (on a two year deal for 1 mill.). So the WIZ free up some cap room getting some iffy 3 point shooting and a young guard with potential. Sounds like ERNIE G is covering his ass-sets in case AGENT ZERO doesn’t make it all the way back. This leaves either JAVARIS CRITTENTON or NICK YOUNG on the bubble and MIKE JAMES as the potential odd-man out. My vote is to say sayonara to Mr. JAMES.

richbrave

June 23rd, 2009
10:51 pm

P.S.

I don’t think DeSHAWN STEVENSON is healthy yet. Bad backs are tricky at best. He might be done, thus the reason for the trade now.

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
10:56 pm

RAY, ELLINGTON/DANNY GREEN=NCAA CHAMPIONS. PATRICK MILLS=THE WHOLE WORLD SAW HIM GIVE TEAM USA THE BUSINESS. HE’S DRAGGED HIS TEAM TO THE NCAA TOUNAMENT(07-08) AND GAVE STEPHEN CURRY THE BUSINEES IN THEIR NIT TOUNAMENT HEAD TO HEAD MATCHUP THIS PAST MARCH….HE IS A BEAST.

THESE ARE NOT FRINGE/BUBBLE GUYS…..JAMES JOHNSON AND THE REST OF THOSE UNPROVEN FLUNKIES AT THE TOP OF THE DRAFT BOARDS WILL BE THE FRINGE/BULLY BUMS….AT LEAST FOR NEXT YEAR…..BELEIVE IT….

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
11:00 pm

*”BUBBLE” NOT “BULLY”

CAN COACHES SERVE STINTS IN THE D-LEAUGE???? IF SO WE NEED TO DEPORT WOODSONS “CHAMPOINCHIP-CALIBER COACH” AZZ DOWN THERE FOR AT LEAST HALF OF THE 09′-10′ SEASON. THAT WAY DREW CAN TAKE OVER AND RUN THIS TEAM RIGHT BY GIVING MINUTES TO GUYS WHO DESERVE EM’.

RealSquawk

June 23rd, 2009
11:04 pm

with all these trades going on it makes me wonder what is our plan and what are the goals of the Atlanta Hawks. the way the trade for the fifth pick went down seem to go with such ease that it could have been acquired by moving chill and anderson or something of the sort.

Then again this team was built through the draft. and has risen despite obstacles *cough coaching cough* and finds themselves with 47 wins which is an improvement.

The question is has the team gotten to the point where it needs to follow the status quo and make changes?

Maybe not

Maybe keepings things constant and firmed and structured will lead to what will probably be the season that decides our lottery fate.

In two years if we tank. tank hard. tank fast. and tank without trading the building blocks cause your only one, one and done player away from being right back in the elite. SEE Chicago Bulls, SEE Miami Heat next year( but hopefully not Miami).

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
11:07 pm

WOODSON SHOULD BE FINED $5,000 FOR EMPLOYEE ABUSE EVERY TIME JOE PLAYS 40+ MINUTES THREE OR MORE TIMES IN ONE WEEK…..

**FREE!! ACIE!! IN 09′!!**

Melvin

June 23rd, 2009
11:09 pm

Nire,

“Of the players in the league who average 20ppg, Butler gets the most open looks and single coverage of anyone.”

You’re my dude but comeon. What’s up with that statement. How can you make such a claim? The dude is a bonfide All-Star not by default like Jamaal Maglorie was…

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
11:09 pm

CP, GREAT MINDS THINK ALIKE MY FRIEND…..G-GREEN ALL DAY AT THE END OF THE BENCH OVER MARIO.

FOR ONCE WE NEED A “REAL” BENCH FULL FO TALENT “AND” REAL POTENTIAL….

O'Brien

June 23rd, 2009
11:14 pm

The Bucks are likely to waive Bruce Bowen. I would not be surprised if the Spurs resign him.

Tomorrow and Thursday is going to be a busy day in the NBA. I expect a lot of activity.

However, will anyone be surprised when the Hawks do nothing? We have Speedy, Acie and 19. Surely we can make a move…

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
11:14 pm

doc, YUP….

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
11:16 pm

O’BRIEN, BRUCE BOWEN WON’T GET MINUTES OVER KEITH BOGANS, SO YEAH. THAT MAKES SENSE…

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
11:17 pm

RICK SUND, PLEASE SAY “YES” TO CHRIS KAMAN WE NEED A STARTIG CENTER FURREAL.

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
11:18 pm

Enter your comments hereI’M WATCHIN BAD BOYS2 ON USA RIGHT NOW. SHOUT OUT TO JOHN SALLEY LOL. HE SHOULD ACT MORE OFTEN.

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
11:21 pm

THERE GOES THE SEXY GABRIELLE UNUION IN A BATHING SUIT LOL. LIKE MCDONALDS, I’M LOVIN’ IT.

doc

June 23rd, 2009
11:22 pm

ARIOSE, I SEE YA!

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
11:23 pm

SHE SCARED ME IN “DELIVER US FROM EVA” THOUGH. IT TOOK ME A WHILE TO LOOK AT HER THE SAME AFTER WATCHIN’ THAT MOVIE LOL. TALK ABOUT ICE QUEEN.

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
11:24 pm

I’D HATE TO BE ON HER BAD SIDE LOL.

O'Brien

June 23rd, 2009
11:27 pm

Ariose,

If the Hawks make a trade for Chris Kaman, then that means no more Zaza right? My only concern is Kaman’s injury history. He played in 36 games last season, and 56 games the season before that. And with his salary, we need him to be healthy. Because of Kaman’s health issues, I would prefer we sign Rasheed.

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
11:34 pm

MY FAVE 5 SEXY FAMOUS FEAMALES: AMERIE, ROSALYN SANCHEZ, MEAGAN GOOD, STACY DASH, AND SANAA LATHAN

Sekou Smith

June 23rd, 2009
11:39 pm

Washington snagged two good players in this deal with Minnesota. Things are getting sticky in the Southeast Division right now. The Hawks have to be busy in free agency (and they could start by making waves on draft night with a trade of their own). But simply re-signing their own free agents and coming back for training camp thinking you’re going to improve just because doesn’t seem like a realistic plan anymore.

There have to be some deals out there for teams that are fishing, because every team that’s cast a reel seems to come back with something. The next 36 hours are going to be crazy.

Sekou Smith

June 23rd, 2009
11:43 pm

Nice list Ariose, but I need to add Keri Hilson and drop Amerie. And I’m putting Moon Bloodgood (Terminator Salvation), from my rookie team, on the squad as my sixth-woman!

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
11:53 pm

SEKOU, AMREIE IS MY FUTURE WIFE, BUT I CAN’T EVEN ARGUE WITH THOSE ADITIONS/SUBTRACTIONS LOL! KERI HILSON IS AN ALL-STAR LOL.

niremetal

June 23rd, 2009
11:54 pm

Sekou,

Do you really think the Wizards got significantly better – heck any better with that trade? Looks like they just created a bigger glut at the positions where they’re already strongest and made an already weak-and-thin frontcourt even thinner. While giving up a high draft pick. As I said, it’s always seemed to me that the Wiz brass have about 9 brain cells between them…

Also, weren’t people saying a year ago that the Hawks would backslide without making a splash…and didn’t they improve 10 games despite losing their Sixth Man to free agency? Not saying that’ll happen again. Just saying that the East is still the East.

niremetal

June 23rd, 2009
11:55 pm

And Mel,

Tried to post this twice, but to no avail. So I’ll just say take a look at my very last post on him and let’s agree to disagree – we can set an example for the others ;)

Ariose

June 23rd, 2009
11:58 pm

O’BRIEN, NO. WE HAVE ZAZA’S BIRD-RIGHTS, SO IT’S FISCALLY POSSIBLE TO KEEP ZAZA ON THE TEAM AND HAVE HIM TOO. REMEBER, IN MY TRADE PROPOSAL I GAVE UP MO(2.5MILL PER & 2YEARS LEFT), SPEEDY(5.6MILL FINAL YEAR OF DEAL), AND RANDOLPH MORRIS(800K FINAL YEAR OF DEAL)+CASH CONSIDERATIONS.

SO IT’S A FAIRLY EVEN TRADE ON BOTH SIDES……FINANCIALLY SPEAKING…

O'Brien

June 24th, 2009
12:01 am

Sekou,

I’m with you. The Hawks need to make a move, because there are assets not being utilized. Chills, David Andersen, Speedy, Acie, (even #19). Surely some of these pieces could get us somebody to contribute immediately.

Unfortunately for the Hawks, they seem to be reactive, rather than proactive. Sund got lucky last year with Flip (on his way to Russia)and Mo (although he had to offer Mo 2 years and player option for a 3rd). I dont know if we can get lucky this year again.

Although the East is the East, I hope we dont stand pat, because we dont know what will happen in free agency.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
12:01 am

OOOH! I’VE HEARD ABOUT MOON BLOODGOOD TOO. GOTTA SEE TERMINATOR SALVATION ASAP. I HEARD THE HANGOVER IS EXTRMRLY FUNNY AS WELL. LOOKS LIKE I’LL BE IN THE THEATRE ALL WEEKEND LOL.

G-Man

June 24th, 2009
12:06 am

Ariose

Also Transformers comes out tomorrow.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
12:14 am

G-MAN, GOOD LOOK LOL. DON’T YOU HATE WHEN THEY PREVIEW MOVIES MONTHS IN ADVANCE LIKE THAT? IT JUST MAKES ME SOO ANXIOUS…..BUT THATS HOW THEY SELL TICKETS. GET EVERYBODY ALL HYPED UP.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
12:15 am

BTW, BEN GORDON WAS ON OPRAH TODAY……JUST THOUGHT I’D THROW THAT OUT THERE LOL.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
12:26 am

BTW, BEN GORDON WAS ON OPRAH TODAY……JUST THOUGHT I’D THROW THAT OUT THERE LOL.

WAS JUST ON GOOGLE IMAGES, MOON BLOODGOOD ISEARNIG SERIOUS POINTS RIGHT NOW. SEKOU, SHE’S A SERIOUS CONTENDER FOR THE TOP 5 Heeheehee…

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
12:26 am

*IS EARNING

LOL…

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
12:28 am

Ariose,

Stacy Dash is a cougar now. You may need to replace her with Megan Fox.

Nire,

Now, now. The blogmaster don’t like when you try to talk badd to me…

Ok if Brandon Jennings slip to #19. All bets/pre-draft deals are off. The Hawks have to select this kid. He may not be ready to contribute this season but 3 yrs from now, I think he will be the best PG that came out of this draft… Until Brandon is ready, resign Bibby, free Acie or find another vet.

A Tribe Called Quest

June 24th, 2009
12:31 am

Watch out for Minnesota in this draft.

They have 4 1st rounders (5, 6, 18, 28). They have a million options and can only get better.

They can trade 2 picks (not 5 and 6) easily for the #2 in my opinion

They can dangle 2 picks + trash for Ray Allen / Rip Hamilton / someone of that caliber.

Al Jeff / All star SG / Kevin Love + expirings for 2010…not bad

niremetal

June 24th, 2009
12:44 am

Minnesota is in a great position but they have the curse of being in the West, where every team but Memphis and Sacramento has a chance at making the playoffs this coming year. If I were them, I’d focus exclusively on young talent so that they can contend in 2-3 years once the kings of the hill finally start slipping.

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
12:45 am

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
12:49 am

At least the Shelden Williams pick didn’t make SI.com top 20 list. Oh well, Jon Koncak wasn’t so lucky…lol

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
12:50 am

At least the Shelden Williams pick didn’t make SI.com top 20 list. Oh well, Jon Koncak wasn’t so lucky…lol

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0706/nba.draft.busts/content.1.html

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
12:52 am

Nire,

You may want to add the Clippers, Warriors and OKC to that list as well.

niremetal

June 24th, 2009
1:00 am

Melvin,

I certainly won’t add the Clips to the list. They certainly have a shot if they make some smart trades (which they might actually do now that Elgin is finally gone) and Griffin lives up to his billing. OKC is stacked with you talent, and it’s at least conceivable that they improve by leaps and bounds this year. And I will never count a Don Nelson-coached team – even though I know they’ll never go anywhere in the playoffs, they’re a threat to at least make the playoffs.

Sacramento and Memphis have little talent, few non-essential but tradeable assets, and uh…did I mention little talent?

On the other hand, I wouldn’t be shocked if New Orleans, Utah, and/or Dallas made like the Suns and set this next year. New Orleans is thin and looking to cut costs, Utah is in trouble if Boozer leaves and they don’t find a star replacement, and Dallas is getting older by the day. So we’ll see.

niremetal

June 24th, 2009
1:07 am

Ariose,

That list was made in 2006. Shelden might crack the top 20 today – but Adam Morrison would have to go even higher ;)

niremetal

June 24th, 2009
1:10 am

Melvin,

I made a post with that list a few months back (on the Hacks’ blog, I believe). Basically, Sund is godawful at drafting and/or signing big men. For all positions except center, his batting average is pretty good. To use a tennis analogy, Sund is awful on clay but good on quicker surfaces.

Ed

June 24th, 2009
1:23 am

Heard on ESPN Radio tonight that T. Williams of has a serious maturity problem. In pre-draft inteviews they compared him to the level of a 12 year old …said he had a Barbie backpack he used on the Lousiville campus plus wore Sponge Bob socks. That alone would be enough to scare me off as being too quirky to gamble on.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
1:26 am

IPROPOSED MY CHRIS KAMAN TRADE TO STEPHEN A. SMITH AND THIS ISWHAT HE HAD TO SAY:

“Hawks’ coach Mike Woodson would love to make that move for Kaman. But management doesn’t want to spend the money. Too bad.”

SEKOU, IS THIS TRUE? I KNOW SUND TRIED TO GET KAMAN AROUND THE TRADE DEADLINE AND THE SPIRIT REJECTED THE IDEA….

Najeh Davenpoop

June 24th, 2009
1:26 am

Chris Kaman gets paid an average of over $11 million over the next three seasons.

Not only would the Hawks probably not be able to trade for him without giving up Josh Smith solely due to salary reasons, but even if they did they kill any cap flexibility they have now and make it much harder to re-sign Joe Johnson after this season.

And I haven’t even mentioned yet that Kaman is an injury-prone turnover machine. At $6-7 million per year, hell yeah I’d take him on the Hawks. At an eight figure salary, hell no.

Najeh Davenpoop

June 24th, 2009
1:27 am

Ariose, if you’re going to ask Stephen A. Smith for his “insight” you may as well tweet trade suggestions to some of those sexy females on your list, because they have about as much credibility.

Najeh Davenpoop

June 24th, 2009
1:28 am

“said he had a Barbie backpack he used on the Lousiville campus”

That indicates a problem… but I don’t know if I’d call it a maturity problem…

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
1:29 am

POOP, THNX FOR THE UPDATE. I THOUGHT HE WAS ONLY MAKING 9MILL AT MOST. JEEZ THATS WAY TOO MUCH $$$$.

Najeh Davenpoop

June 24th, 2009
1:31 am

Minnesota apparently wants to jump to #2 (not the most earth-shattering information after today’s trade, but still…)

They have put themselves in a great position heading into the draft, no doubt. But I wonder whether trading up to #2 is even really worth it. At their current position they will probably be picking from among Tyreke Evans, Brandon Jennings, Stephen Curry, DeMar DeRozan, etc. The latest rumors even have Thabeet and/or Rubio slipping to around that position. In that event, unless they really really love James Harden (side note: am I the only one who sees a lot of Joe Johnson in him?), I don’t really see the point of trading up. The chances of getting a significantly better player by doing so seem pretty slim.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
1:32 am

POOP, I WASN’T ASKING HIM LOL. ORIGINALLY I LET HIM HAVE IT FOR HIS “FAKE” AMARE RUMOR. THAT COMMENT WAS JUST THE ONLY THING HE “CHOSE” TO RESPOND TOO LOL.

I WAS TELLING HIM THAT THAT THE HAWKS NEED A CENTER AND WOULD BE BETTER OFF GOING AFTER KAMAN INSTEAD OF AMARE….

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
2:01 am

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
2:09 am

PLEASE DON’T SLEEP ON MY MAIN MAN WAYNE. HE IS A BEAST:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YszIA_4kIZA

Ed

June 24th, 2009
2:19 am

If and when the Hawks make their choice @ #19, you hold your breath and hope at least it’s some of the players we have been talking about and not some european big man we’ve never heard of.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
2:19 am

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
2:23 am

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
2:26 am

Clyde

June 24th, 2009
3:37 am

Hey Sekou I thought you had Beyonce on your list? Now you got Keri Hilson? Keri is fine but I’ll take her older sister. I think her name is Kayce. Here is my top 5 females.

1.Stacy Dash
2.Pam Grier
3.Melyssa Ford
4.Beverly Johnson
5.Keri Hilson’s older sister

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
7:04 am

Nire,

Maybe the Wiz made those trades so they can make up for their fake-ass all-star SF who has no business putting up those kinds of numbers with a physique and skill set like that. After all, he led the league in open looks per 20ppg scored…or something like that. I’m sure Hollinger has a stat category for it. ;)

Sekou,

I watched Terminator Salvation. Loved it. Nice pick on Moon Bloodgood. Very nice indeed. Woo!

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
7:29 am

O’brien,

Really, it’s kinda funny. Standing pat is the trendy thing to do where the Hawks are concerned. What never ceases to amaze me is how people will say the East is weak when we’re talking about our growth and improvement as compared to other Eastern Teams. But the minute we mention how a team or player performs in the West, they then want to say that the West is no big deal, and that the East is powerful. Can’t have it both ways (though some people seem to just live that way).

I’m not saying that all these moves that teams are making are going to make them significantly better, or better than us. Lord knows the usual straw-chewing men are waiting to attack that statment.

It’s easy to criticize Washington for the moves they made. But it’s highly presumptuous to think they are done making moves. Where some see a glut of personnel at one or two positions, others see depth, options, and better opportunity at asset management. The Wiz now have more contracts and useable assets they can play with. Simply put, an asset’s value is not just in what that player brings to the team on the floor, but also what his contract does for you (if expiring or reasonable), and what he may bring you in trade, that you need.

Teams are getting better around us. They may not get better than us this year. But if we keep going forward with the mindset that they won’t (regardless of what happened last year), we will find ourselves behind. No panic attacks needed, or moves made for the sake of making a move. Again, this is always bait for the usual straw-muching fools. But asset managment is a full-time job, and often the difference between a consistently successful franchise and….well, NOT.

Sekou,

Simply signing all of our free agents and leaving it at that will not cut it. For one thing, we haven’t shown the ability to do that. We had two restricted free agents last year, and we lost one while matching an offer for the second. I’m not going to debate the how/why of losing the former, nor am I going to get into the semantics of the situation surrounding the latter. I just don’t care to at this point. But no matter how you slice it, that’s going 1 for 2.

If we bat .500 this year, how will THAT turn out (pick the ones you want to keep vs. the ones we lose). I just don’t see us signing all our free agents, and I’m not so sure that isn’t a good thing. Lord knows if we keep all of our guys, we have the same team with no improvements, the same gameplan (unless Woody changes it), the same problems, and the same excuses.

But we won’t have the same win total or playoff positioning. That, I am sure of, unless some fundamental changes are made. Changes I’m not expecting.

G-Man

June 24th, 2009
7:50 am

Hey guys this new article on Hoopsworld said that we developed an affinity for Jeff Teague recently.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=13017

chuckw/deadjournalist

June 24th, 2009
8:01 am

This draft may well turn out to be the 2000 Draft 2.0, but this has been one of the most entertaining pre-draft weeks I’ve seen. Four letters now as Brandon Jennings falling to the Hawks at 19. This from a guy who has been as high as 4 on a number of mocks. Crazy, crazy draft.

I just checked out that link on the top 20 busts from SI. The idea that “when in doubt, draft bigs” should be shot out the window because the vast majority of guys on that list, were, bigs. When they do that top 20 in another five years, they can add Sheldon. Honestly, he’s a much bigger bust than Jon Koncak. At least Big K was a decent roll player for a number of years. …

Back to the Hawks, who knows what in the world they are going to do with pick. I have a gut feeling they will hold the pick at least until they see who falls to them. If the guys they have targeted are off the board? A stash pick? A trade? Sell the pick for some walking around money?

mountain_jim

June 24th, 2009
8:47 am

Ariose – Is your CAPS key stuck on or do you just feel the need to yell and garner maximum attention for your near-continuous posting stream?

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
8:51 am

More predictions that the Hawks will have a slow to no action pack summer…

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=13017

G-Man

June 24th, 2009
9:03 am

Melvin,

Beat ya to it!

chuckw/deadjournalist

June 24th, 2009
9:14 am

Melvin –

If HoopsWorld is on point – and given the long-standing opinions of many here, they probably are – I, in pure speculation, wonder if Portland might be an interesting participant. They have a lot of young, relatively inexpensive, talent and have expressed some want to improve at the three. Would they have interest in Marvin and #19 (and Law?) for some of their talented, but spare parts? Outlaw/Webster and Fernandez/Bayless? It could expand to include a salary swap of Speedy and Pryzbilla (one more year than Speedy).

Would Portland see Marvin as an upgrade over Outlaw or a healthy Webster? Would they give up on Fernandez/Bayless versus pushing Blake? Would they want to include the Speedy and Pryzbilla to clear more salary?

Either way, it would address a couple of needs for the Hawks, not the least of which would be salary.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
9:19 am

mountain_jim, that was my “inverse doc” last night lol. you should try it. it’s very theraputic lol. ;-)

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
9:21 am

Clyde, beleive me, I had a hard time to not putting melissa Ford in starting rotation lol!

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
9:45 am

About this hoopsworld stuff. This Is why I said it was more important for atlanta to build their bench through the draft with good players like Ellington,Danny Green, and Patrick Mills. Because the hawks will not have much menuverability in Free Agency. I think it is paramount that weaquire another draft pick or two and get some quality players.

Gerlald Green at 800k would be a cheap and very good insurance policy/addition to the squad because of his athletic ability and potential. I would have loved for us to have aquired Anthony Parker as well ths off-season but it doesn’t look possible…

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
9:55 am

Looks like the Hawks may need to part ways with Speedy(duh), MO Evans, and Randolph Morris…

Astro Joe

June 24th, 2009
9:59 am

Chad Ford now has Brandon Jennings falling into our lap at #19. It seems like that would give us some incredible leverage if that is true. I’m not sure that I want such a young PG on the squad but another team may be willing to give us value for that pick.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
10:14 am

….not gonna happen. I hope it doesn’t either….ELLINGTON ALL DAY!!!!! MAKE IT RAIN!!!!!!

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
10:15 am

Astro,

If Jennings falls to us at #19, thank the Gods. Keep the kid and develop him. Three years from now (if not a year sooner) the Hawks would be known for getting the steal of the 2009 draft. That kid has the skills and game that could be the face of a franchise if utilize and develop correctly…

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
10:18 am

G-Man,

I wouldn’t challenge you to a gun showdown. Don’t want to be in that pine box…

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
10:21 am

…..not gonna happen….

Brent

June 24th, 2009
10:24 am

Don’t be surprised if we draft Hansbrough and trade Josh Smith for a center or PG.

Astro Joe

June 24th, 2009
10:25 am

Off the draft topic for a second. Pretty scary some of the articles I’m reading about how teams are looking to cut expenses. Reportedly, Detroit may try to use one less assistant coach next season (and some other teams are doing the same) and San Antonio & New Jersey are reducing their scouting department. Instead of scouting a team a few days before they play that team, they will rely on a third party scouting agency to provide some information. I guess that makes some sense. An independent firm could load a database with the trends of teams in the past 3-5 games and any team could pay a price to access that information (and not have to pay the salary of a scout).

As I have said ad nauseum, I won’t blame the ASG (or any business owner) for reducing expenses in this economic down-turn. I won’t question their desire to win or their financial resolve (that was proven in my estimation when the economy was good). But with players getting younger, coaching staffs getting smaller and scouting staffs shrinking, one wonders if the on-court product will likewise suffer (across the league). It’s hard to imagine that it won’t suffer.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
10:27 am

Patrick Mills is faster(jennings is not fast) and better….

ant banks

June 24th, 2009
10:42 am

ARIOSE,

i see the video on ellington and i agree that he is a beast and we can use him wit’ the hawks, but if you and i think that he is beastin’ wouldn’t 18 other teams think the same thing?

and further more, if he is that good, why won’t he be grabbed during the 1st 10?

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
10:45 am

Ariose,

I know you like Mills but if Jennings falls we gotta take him. With his flashy style of play, he’s gonna sell jerseys and put butts in seats. And thats just as important to a franchise just like winning is. See Astro Joe post at 10:25am if you don’t think these owners are looking at revenue.

O'Brien

June 24th, 2009
10:47 am

I am holding out hope that the Hawks will make a move before the draft. Trade #19, Speedy and filler (or Acie, Speedy and filler) for somebody that can help us immediately.

As far as cutting costs, I saw an article that suggested that the Miami Heat may only carry 13 players next season. I would not be surprised if the Hawks only go with 13 or 14 as well.

Maybe the Hawks will cut back on their scouting too, because it all comes down to Woody (and we all know about his game plan and lack of adjustments).

I.MUS WRITE- INTERNATIONAL MAN OF MYSTERY

June 24th, 2009
10:47 am

Lets just keep it simple….. Terrence Willianms/Sam Young at #19……..Lester Hudson/Toney Douglas/Garret Siller at #49- which ever is available.

I Luv it san Antonio is back in the mix, now all thety need to do is sign a big man …….. RJ adds sum serious fire power to go along with the big 3 and Roger Mason/George Hill. Milwaukee will keep sessions and add a Sg in the draft-We should still go after Charlie V.

If we dont make any substantial moves this summer I think we will be fighting for a playoff spot next season 6-8 spot, Bulls,Washington,Nets Miami will all be better.

What would we give up for rondo…Hmmmm How about Marvin and Acie…or Marvin and a future pick.

Minnesot finally woke up and dumped evin Mchale……. 5 and 6 Well dam…….. Tyreke Evans and Curry will be a nasty back court….Jeezuz man a 6′5 pg with a 7′0 wing span

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
10:48 am

ant, no way. they can’tafford to pass up on the next big thing(like we did with chris paul) it would be a PR nightmare. especially sinceall the teams above us are lottery/sorry teams…

I.MUS WRITE- INTERNATIONAL MAN OF MYSTERY

June 24th, 2009
10:49 am

kevin …I need cooffee

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
10:49 am

If I was Minny, I wouldn’t over leverage trying to get Ricky Rubio b/c John Wall is only one summer away. Just watch how many teams will tank after the all-star break or look to acquire draft picks just to get a better chance of landing next year number 1 pick in the John Wall sweepstakes. That kid is going to be a cash cow if he dominate the NCAA like he did high school…

Rod from College Park

June 24th, 2009
10:53 am

Ariose,

“RJ is not better than Marvin Anyway. If Jefferson was the FIFTH OPTION on THIS SQUAD like MARVIN, theres NO WAY you would get 15pts and 7 rebounds out of him. He hasn’t been the same since Kidd left Jersey. Guess he forgot how to score on his own…”

I hope this was a joke. The thing is, if he was on the Hawks, he would be not be the fifth option. He might be the first option. He can shoot like Joe, but he also can drive and finish. Marvin is the fifth option, because he is the 5 or 6th best player on the team. I would put Flip ahead of him. RJ,Gay or Butler would be a tremendous upgrade.

Astro Joe

June 24th, 2009
10:54 am

Melvin, here’s ESPN’s view on next year’s draft.

While most NBA pundits talk glowingly about the free-agent class of 2010, the college basketball world is smitten with the vast amount of returning talent in its game. Potential lottery picks Greg Monroe, Al-Farouq Aminu, Willie Warren, Cole Aldrich, Luke Babbitt, Jerome Jordan, Evan Turner, James Anderson, Kyle Singler, Craig Brackins, Ed Davis, Kalin Lucas and Jarvis Varnado will be joined by a much-better freshman class (John Wall, Avery Bradley, Renardo Sidney, Derrick Favors just to name a few) in what surely will be a very deep draft. ESPN’s Fran Fraschilla has called this year’s draft class the worst in 25 years. Listen to those who know and get a pick from a potential lottery team for next year.

Astro Joe

June 24th, 2009
10:57 am

RJ is not anything more than a solid 3rd option. When he had a chance to do more in NJ a few years back, he and the team were pretty lousy. Marvin may very well end up being very much like RJ, but right now, he’s younger, bigger and cheaper. So in my opinion, he’s a better value than RJ.

Clyde

June 24th, 2009
11:05 am

Who’s going to the draft party?

Mitch

June 24th, 2009
11:14 am

I think if the Hawks stay put at #19, they will take one of these 4 ACC players: Lawson, Ellington, Hansbrough or Teague. Lawson would make the most sense because he brings elite speed to a young team that should play with speed more than it does. The next in line is Teague because he can shoot just as well from the perimeter as Ellington and Teague has a better all-around floor game. Ellington can shoot and be a deep threat if Bibby is not re-signed. But Ellington was not an effective slasher at UNC, and the Hawks need slashers, especially ones that can draw and dish or kick. Hansbrough has the hunger any coach wants…and he thrives at the foulline, but he won’t get nearly as many of the foul calls he did in college…and one has to wonder how well he can defense the 4 spot…he actually might be better defending the 5, but at 6′9″ that would be iffy. He does have the strength and the competitive desire, no question, and he would help the fast break as he will be super hungry to get his points in transition.

My guess is the pick will be Teague. Lawson will go much earlier than expected (might even crack the top 12), and Hansbrough will go in the mid to late teens.

As for Teague, he’s only had two years of college. He shot lights-out at times this past year from NBA range, and he worked well within the Deacons’ schemes. The worry is whether Mike Woodson will tear him down or build him up. Woodson seems to have no patience with rookies.

As for the signings, aside from the must re-signing of Marvin Williams (this kid has made steady improvement each year and was becoming a go-to shooter from the corner at crunch time before he got injured), the two I see happening for sure are Flip and Zaza. I think they will let Bibby walk (unless he accepts a contract in the area of $5M) and the Hawks will sign a perimeter shooter.

Now here’s the one hunch that might be wrong, but, I think that if the Hawks could get a center or a very good point guard (or both) for JJ, they would trade JJ. It would seem unlikely as JJ is heading into the last year of his contract..unless a team thinks he is their one missing piece.

An intriguing scenario, IMO, would be to trade JJ for a center and a chance to switch picks in the draft so as to move up to take Lawson. Get back to building this team off speed. A center would clean the glass and get the break started. JSmoove and HoFo rushing up the wings and Lawson pushing the ball, with Marvin or Flip setting up for three…wow.

Mike Woodson did a much better job with the half court offense this past year…save the same one-on-one standing around in crunch times, which remains a real issue…but this young team needs to run like the Suns of three to four years ago. Adding a glass cleaner and a speedy point guard would be a boon. Wonder if Rick Sund sees it that way?

newkid

June 24th, 2009
11:27 am

Melvin, while I’ve only seen him maybe 6-8 times, but I’m already very intrigued by John Wall. What an entertaining year this could be in college basketball. Then imagine a team positioning itself in the 2010 draft in the manner Minnesota has done so far this year. If Marvin is moved in an SNT this summer, gotta hope we get an unprotected 1st rounder in ‘10 in the deal.

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
11:35 am

Astro,
Next year draft is going to be deep, especially if alot of those underclassmen declare….

Newkid,
Again, watch them teams tank after the All-Star break…

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
11:35 am

From the standpoint of age and money, Marvin is a better value.

However, it is not lost on me that we can only HOPE Marvin’s deferential self can evolve into what Richard Jefferson is: a career 18 and 5 guy.

Now, I’m sure that somebody will say that it was all about playing with Jason Kidd and what not. But that doesn’t explain how he managed 20 and 5 in Milwaukee this past season. Oh wait, I know. It was because Redd was injured. There’s always an excuse or justification, so I probably just wasted all my breath…

Not that I’m lamenting us not getting a guy like Jefferson, but right about I’d be HAPPY to have a solid 3rd option, and ecstatic to have a solid 2nd option. I may talk up Josh Smith as our current second option, but the word “solid” doesn’t quite belong in that conversation just yet…

Astro Joe,

Excellent post at 10:25 a.m. Very good points.

O’brien,

I’m holding out the same hope you are. Otherwise, we’ll be in front of the tv tomorrow evening, watching the dog and pony show.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
11:40 am

Rod, the point is, for the amount of $$$ Richard Jefferson get’s paid, he is severly underachiving and has been for years. I’ll give you Rudy, i’ve campaigned ofr him myself on this blog; but it’s a no for Jefferson and Butler. They are older, slower, and Marvin plays better defense than both of them. They are both also VERY injury prone. They ONLY average a few more points then MARVIN and they get TONS of plays ran for them. Marvin gets 15 & 7 easy without ever hearing his name called for a play.

It’s not a joke, Marvin is better.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
11:44 am

If Jefferson or Butler were on this squad, they would be third options behiend Bibby and Joe. Even then, they won’t do much better than Marvin(if that) in this system.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
11:45 am

Did I mention Marvin is younger, Bigger, and plays better defense? yeah…

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
11:51 am

When was the last time Butler was on a 47 win team? Oh thats right, NEVER!!!Check it.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
11:53 am

Until his squad wins 47+ his stats are fools gold to me….”Gilbo and the Gimpy knee crew lol”

niremetal

June 24th, 2009
12:09 pm

Astro Joe,

If it were a “take the guy for one year” deal, I’d take RJ over Marvin right now (unlike Caron). But then again, we haven’t seen Marvin in any role besides “wait for JJ’s bail out pass,” so it’s tough to say.

Rod from College Park

June 24th, 2009
12:21 pm

We agree to disagree. Marvin does not play better defense, can’t dribble and drive, does not shoot better, never commands a double team, can’t guard 2 positions, the 2 and the 3, can’t finish better, has never been an all-star, does not get to the line more, is more injury prone, is not as consistent, has never played big in the playoffs, and will never be a 1 or 2 option on his team. The money aspect is correct, but you will have to pay anybody who puts up almost 20 points per game. If Jefferson played for the Hawks, he would be the first or second option. He would get the ball before Bibby, because he can create his own shot anytime he wants.

reedeak

June 24th, 2009
1:11 pm

If the Hawks are serious about becomming a contender we have to go after Bosh! Al,Acie,and 19th pick for Bosh. Then sign Bibby and trade for Rafer. Keep Marvin or trade for Butler(either way). Resign Flip,zaza,and solo. Hope that Toney Douglas or Meeks falls to our 2nd round pick.

PG: Rafer,Flip
SG: Joe, Toney Douglas
SF:Marvin(butler),Mo evans
PF:Josh,Solo
C:Bosh,Zaza

This would be a pretty complete team.

O'Brien

June 24th, 2009
1:17 pm

If we were to sign Marvin to a long term deal this off-season, how much do we think he is worth? His qualifying offer is $7.3 mil, and I would offer 4/5 years, $7 mil per.

I like Marvin, but my problem with him is I dont think he has the passion (or drive) to be a #1 option. He was content being a 6th man, and always defers. He is a solid role player on a good team, thats all.

G-Man

June 24th, 2009
1:19 pm

I heard a Marco Bellineli and jarmareo davidson for brandon bass trade just went down.

G-Man

June 24th, 2009
1:21 pm

But for fairness sake it wasn’t a reliable source.

Astro Joe

June 24th, 2009
1:29 pm

G-Man, I think Bass is a free agent and therefore can’t be traded until free agency starts in July.

O'Brien

June 24th, 2009
1:30 pm

I found this on ESPN.com (Bill Simmons), talking about the Clips. I didnt know Woody and Larry Drew go so far back. And Woody and BK go back too. I wonder if Woody only wants people on his bench who he is not worried about them taking his job…

“The following summer, they deal him to Sacramento (with Bridgeman and Franklin Edwards) for Larry Drew, Mike Woodson and a 1988 No. 1 pick”

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
1:30 pm

Rod, you may be right, but for our squad, Marvin is a piece to the puzzle….a cornerstone, a young asset….up and coming. RJ or Caron would just be rentals. Were not any closer to winning a title with either of tham, then we would be with Marvin. Last time I checked, Marvin was part of a 47-win squad.

Astro Joe

June 24th, 2009
1:35 pm

Nire, for as one year deal, i would take RJ too.

OB, I would offer Marvin a 3-year deal, probably for around $24M. I’d try to convince him that his late season back injury left him with an incomplete grade. Maybe offer a team option on the 4th year. I think that would put him in the ballpark with Tayshaun and Josh Howard (maybe slightly below but close).

jerrywest

June 24th, 2009
1:40 pm

So many assets underutilized:
Chillz, Anderson, Acie, Speedy’s contract, 19th pick.

If we can’t pick up a superstar now for Marv+ or Smoove+ or Horf+, the GM/owners haven’t done a good job.

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
1:49 pm

Rod,

I like Marvin but I’m with you. I’m going with proven versus potential. Give me the guy (Caron or RJ) that avg 20pts for a season. At least I know they can get it done.

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
1:54 pm

OB,

I like MannyT idea when it comes to Marvin. Let him play next season on his qualifying offer (7.3). His performace and team succeess would determine whether he would be a Hawk going forward.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
1:58 pm

Or Marvin could choose to Abandon te Hawks because he felt jilted…..hey, I mean he would have every right to do that too….If we don’t extend him. That’s on Management, not on Marvin.

terrell barron

June 24th, 2009
2:05 pm

I thought Brandon Bass was unrestricted. How can he be traded?

O'Brien

June 24th, 2009
2:08 pm

If Marvin plays out his QO offer, does he become unrestricted next year?

cp

June 24th, 2009
2:12 pm

Enter your comments here

Nookah

June 24th, 2009
2:12 pm

Why are we so agog about Caron? He’s good but how many games does he play per season? Why would you trade for a guy that is at the peak of his ability and 5 or 6 years older and is prone to injury? Marvin has shown steady improvement each year and nearly not as much injury prone. The problem with Marvin is that the expectations for him exceed the rate of his development. It is directly linked to where he was drafted.

If I’m an investor and I had to choose between these 2 assets, I’d certainly put my money into the one that shows a steady increase from year to year and also looking into the fact that MW has more years to “maturity”. I would think that my “revenue stream” would be longer and based on the current position would also suggest I will have a better ROI once the asset has reached it’s “useful life”.

IMO MW will continue to improve and I think it is imperative for our continuity that we sign him in this offseason.

Go Hawks anyway!!!!

cp

June 24th, 2009
2:13 pm

If Brandon Jennings falls to us at 19 I say we take him.

O'Brien

June 24th, 2009
2:16 pm

cp,

All the mock drafts have Jennins going in the lottery. I think the Hawks choices are more likely to be Jeff Teague, Eric Maynor, and Ty Lawson.

Astro Joe

June 24th, 2009
2:24 pm

OB, ESPN’s latest mock has Jennings falling to the Hawks.

Yes, if Marvin accepts his qaulifying offer then he becomes an UFA next summer. Chicago just went through the same with Ben Gordon. Gordon had a good season and a very good postseason and while he can re-sign with the Bulls, it sounds like the Pistons are going to go hard after him. If the Hawks allow Marvin to play things out to next summer, then Sund would be faced with having both Marvin and Joe as UFAs and making a decision about offering Horford an extension so that he doesn’t become a RFA in the summer of 2011. IMO, deal with Marvin this summer… either re-sign him or sign & trade him.

Rod from College Park

June 24th, 2009
2:27 pm

O’Brien,

“I like Marvin, but my problem with him is I dont think he has the passion (or drive) to be a #1 option. He was content being a 6th man, and always defers. He is a solid role player on a good team, thats all.”

I totally agree with that statement. That is why I don’t think you can pay this guy that much money. I personally would not pay him more than 4 or 5 million a year because he is a role player. Who is more important, Flip or Marvin? Really think about what Marvin does for us offensively. All we really ask for him to do is stand in the right corner and knock down open jumpshots. Occasionally he is asked to drive and try to finish. We honestly could draft a 3 in the draft who could give us what Marvin gives us for much less money. I can think of a whole bunch of guys in the league that play the 2 or three that could knock down open jumpshots. Hell in our offense Mike Dunleavy Jr. might put up better numbers. All you really need is a knock down jump shooter to fill that void as long as we keep running ISO Joe. I have stated before, that the 3 is probably the easiest position to play of all the positions, especially in our offense. Think about the playoffs, how we could not score enough points. We really need another proven scorer to compliment Joe and take the pressure off of Joe.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
2:27 pm

OB, yeah he’d be an unrestricted free agent next summer.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
2:34 pm

From Micah Hearts Twitter:

“Ty Lawson did indeed work out for us this morning, and looked good”

I can’t say i’m thrilled about Lawson, but if you guys like him so much then I guess there’s probably comething i’m missing….

Stating the Obvious

June 24th, 2009
2:37 pm

Rod, are you physically capable of making a post that doesn’t bash Marvin? You never talk about anyone else. Why are you so fixated on him?

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
2:37 pm

Nookah, Exactly.

O'Brien

June 24th, 2009
2:37 pm

Thanks Guys.

If Brandon Jennings is there when we pick, then I would draft him.

I think the Hawks and Marvin need a fresh start. As long as Marvin is here (and we have PG issues), he will always be remembered as the guy BK drafted instead of Chris Paul or Deron Williams. And we dont need a #2 pick to be our 4th or 5th option. I say do a sign and trade, and move him if possible.

However, if the Hawks plan on keeping Marvin, I think they should sign him to an extension this year. If we dont, then we could lose him next year and get nothing in return.

I also think we should sign JJ to an extension this summer, because if we lose him next summer, which big name free agent will want to come here?

Hawks need to be proactive, not reactive.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
2:39 pm

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
2:39 pm

Ariose,

Marvin is indeed part of a 47 win squad. And Adam Morrison is part of an NBA champion. Come on man, I get what you’re trying to say, but that’s a bit too much of a general statement, don’t you think?

Rod from College Park

June 24th, 2009
2:46 pm

Nookah,

He’s good but how many games does he play per season? Why would you trade for a guy that is at the peak of his ability and 5 or 6 years older and is prone to injury? Marvin has shown steady improvement each year and nearly not as much injury prone.

Caron played 67 games this year, and Marvin played 61. I would personally think that Marvin’s health going forward is more of a concern than Caron. Back injuries are serious. Believe it or not a guy that averages 6 more points a game over a season, and can command a double team is a much better investment than investing in a guy with potential. One asset is proven, and the other is unproven. With unproven assets you have the potential to get rich, but you also have the potential to lose everything. A proven asset normally (not in today’s economy) will bring consistent results. Once again this idea that his numbers have increased every year is a myth. Look it up. I won’t post it again. His numbers are down this year from last year. Just my 2 cents.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
2:50 pm

Ray, But Marvin was a big contributor on a good squad whereas Jefferson has been a key contributor on underachieveing squads for the past few seasons. I can’t say the same for Caron and the wizards. Every year they seem to overacheive to me…..I still don’t think their that talented lol. We’ll see how well they do without Eddie Jordans system…

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
2:52 pm

If you’re keeping Marvin, then you find a way to expand his role, and you do so quickly.

I have nothing in particular against Marvin. Nice guy, and a game with potential. But if we’re going to continue making noise about how good he can be, and how he’s supposedly better than guys whose career averages are significantly higher than his, then we better be clamboring for him to be no less than a third option.

And while that would seem like a nice idea, do we realistically see that happening? Blame it on the coach, blame it on the player, makes no difference. The results are not there, and there is no indication that this is the plan (making him a 2nd or 3rd option on offense).

He can be traded based on his potential. Again, if he’s not in the big plans, then move him. Same would be said of Josh, and often is, right?

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
2:53 pm

Ray, his numbers are down but so were Ray Allens, KG, and Paul Peirce’s numbers in 07′-08′….but they won more games; and so did the Hawks.

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
2:54 pm

Ariose,

I’m not talking about the Wiz. I’m talking about Butler and Jefferson. Hey man, 20ppg or near it is something we’d be raving about if Marvin was giving us that kind of production. Tell me we wouldn’t….but somebody else is doing it, and we discount that or chalk it up to any number of reasons EXCEPT the skill of the player.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
2:55 pm

Ray, If I was the coach i’d do that in a hearbeat. Unfortunately for us Hawks fans, the WAFFLE man reigns supreme….

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
2:58 pm

Ariose,

Whose numbers were down? Lost me…

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
2:59 pm

Astro,

I think the problem with making a decision on Marvin this summer, is his body of work up to this point. I’m not sure if he gonna blossom into a valuable/all-star player or morph at the level he’s at now. If he play this season and become a major piece to the core, then we still has his bird rights and can outbid other teams. But I would admit, this may not be the best option. However, I think it would be even worse if the Hawks offer him a big contract and he doesn’t play up to it. At worst, I guess we could sign him to a 3yr contract..

Rod from College Park

June 24th, 2009
3:00 pm

Stating the Obvious,

Rod, are you physically capable of making a post that doesn’t bash Marvin? You never talk about anyone else. Why are you so fixated on him?

I have made many posts defending Josh and bashing Woodson. My personal opinion is that Marvin, is one of the main problems with this team, and beleive it or not, I am 100% positive that some people that work for, play for, and have financial interest in the Hawks, actually read this blog. Hopefully this will influence them to see what I see and get rid of this guy. Also, If I am correct this is a blog, and I have the right to post what I feel, and that is what I do. I am sure Sekou would take it down if he felt a certain way about it. Hope that answers your question. Imagine if Marvin turned out to be Danny Granger. Do you think we would have been swept agianst Cleveland? I don’t. I am positive that when the Hawks drafted him, that is the caliber player they thought we were getting, not a average role player.

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
3:01 pm

True that. That’s why I said “blame the player or coach, your pick”…

doc

June 24th, 2009
3:01 pm

hate to interrupt this program on the draft however a riveting interview just ended with bernie mullins the x head of operations for the basg. he stopped short of saying he doesnt know how wadell still has his job based on performance and essentially said billy knight was as good a person to work with he could have found. yup that is what he said, sorry guys. he also wasnt high on steve and said if they had taken the road belkin wanted they wouldnt have had sponsers for the team nor a fan base of season ticket owners to keep the team above water. he also said belkin was the guy who brought him into the picture, is smart but he had to side with the others and agree in principle to what they wanted in a 5 year program. he hinted that bk was held back by funding however said if they had wanted or felt ai was the man he would have gotten the money. he gave a list of people folks felt high on, where he avoided them and brought in some pretty good players in the end. curry and dalembert were two he specifically said that they avoided in spite of folks desire to bring them in at any cost … fans, reporters, etc. he also said bk had his ideas and kept to them to his detriment.

good stuff on 680 this pm. check the site to see if they posted it yet.

kwooden1

June 24th, 2009
3:01 pm

Wizards Trade: Someone has already said that the Wizards are going to make more moves. I hope they do because otherwise they still never solved their rebound and defensive problems. Songaila could at least play the PF and rebound sometimes. Jamison rebounds fine but can’t defend the PF position. The Wizards cleared some salary next year, but it wasn’t a hugh move. Overall, I think the trade was fine, but it doesn’t scare me. Last year, Philly acquiring Brand scared me!

If NBADraft.net holds true (appears to be the most sited mock draft right now), I would take Blair over Teague. Need to get another rebounder on the team, someone with toughness! Then worry about keeping Flip and Bibby during the rest of the summer.

GO HAWKS!!

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
3:04 pm

Ray, you and Rod have a point. B/C Rudy is putting up 20+ for the Grizz and I would give up marvin without a second thought to get him here. At the same time, Rudy is younger than Caron and Jefferson, but the logic is similar.

I would just hate for us to be in a position where we give up marvin, and caron really starts to show his increasing age in a yer or two. Meanwhile, Marvin is blowing up. I mean dud is just playing his role on a winnig squad. If we were talking about a college squad(hansbrough and UNC come to mind) no one would have a problem with Marvin’s contributions.

I am all for Marvin being more assertive/aggressive. I thought he made some considerable progress in that department this year; creating more off the dribble, expanding his range, being more agressive on the glass and down in the blocks, and challenging other premier small forward offensively(Peirce, Lebron, and Carmelo specifically).

If it makes the team better, then i’m all for it. I just don’t want a move like that to hurt this francise in the long run: Danny Manning/Isiah Rider….

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
3:07 pm

Ray, I was reffering to the comments you made to Nookah about Marvins stats being the same or slightly lower compared to the previous season.

terrell barron

June 24th, 2009
3:10 pm

Imus, why would Boston want Marvin, when they’ve got Pierce?

reedeak

June 24th, 2009
3:11 pm

If we do not pursue Bosh or another scorer we will continue to mull around in mediocrity.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
3:12 pm

Rod, while I understand your premise, remember that marvin barely played in the Cleveland series’ because of a wrist injury…..

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
3:12 pm

Rod,

The way I see it, Marvin has talent. He is NOT however, a 2nd or 3rd scoring option. Josh is our 2nd scoring option, but he is not a SOLID 2nd scoring option, at least not until he is able to refine his game and consistently do what he is good at (has a plethora of go-to moves that work). But the fact remains that he is our 2nd scoring option.

Now whether that tells us more about the player or the system he plays in, is certainly up for debate. To me it’s not either/or, it’s both. Tell ya what else: I believe that a very talented player is simply a very talented player, and cannot be suppressed. Everybody else has to be developed over longer courses of time, because they simply aren’t as special.

Marvin was picked like he was special. He’s not. He is fairly solid, and may turn out to be good. But he’s not going to be great. Greatness is present in a player already, it cannot be developed. It can only be polished and/or refined. No offense to Marvin or anybody who likes him, but I don’t see the greatness, and I’m not totally convinced that he’s going to be “good.” Sorry, but the proof is in the pudding.

I believe he can be nearly as good as a guy like Danny Granger (probably won’t score as much, and Granger did that with no J. O’Neal or Mike Dunleavy around), but an all-star? Might be stretching it. We shall see.

Again, he’s talented. And he IS young. But we better figure out now if we can reasonably expand his role or not. If not, then prepare to move him, because he’s going to want more dough than he might be worth.

terrell barron

June 24th, 2009
3:17 pm

Rod, Marvin was injured when we played Cleveland. If you want to balme someone for getting swept, blame Woody, JJ, and Bibby. Our so called leaders.

terrell barron

June 24th, 2009
3:25 pm

If Marvin goes to a team where he’s the #1 or #2 option, he’s going to make you guys pay. Especially if he has a REAL COACH, WHO KNOWS HOW TO UTILIZE HIM CORRECTLY. Mark my words. I’m not saying he’s going to be great, but he’s going to be pretty damm good. Did you guys see him play when JJ was injured? He looked like a totally different guy out there. Actually, he looked like the best player on the team during that stretch. And this is coming from a guy who has killed him as much as anyone. I put most of the blame on Woody, and his all backcourt, all the time offense.

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
3:25 pm

Ariose,

I honestly don’t remember saying anything to Nookah lately, but I do notice that Marvin’s stats were a bit down. So were most of his teammates’ but that was due to the addition of Bibby, and the amount of shots/production/involvement he has. Besides, Marvin has yet to average a solid 15ppg in a year, so going down by a single point per game is hardly a significant drop off.

I’m not sold on a Marvin for Caron trade unless we’re making a run at something (and I don’t mean another 47 win season, either). Caron is a more complete player who is producing, but he’s also older. There would have to be another “big” piece in place before I’d want to pull the trigger on that trade, to be honest. I like Caron if the money and rest of the deal is right. I’d want more than just Caron, I’d want another useable piece, while understanding that we would have to move additional pieces ourselves.

It’s not going to happen anyway, so no point in arguing about it, and I don’t think it’s the best deal we could do. But what do I know?

Finally, I don’t want to trade anybody away and have it hurt us over the long term either. Nor do I want to waste a perfectly useable player/asset.

And you know if we trade Marvin away and he becomes the promised 20ppg scorer, we’ll all wail like sick banshees.

….well, all maybe except Rod. ;)

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
3:28 pm

Terrell,

Ha! Marvin’s gonna make WHO pay? Us? We’re a bunch of bloggers! Oh, we’ll piss and moan, and cry about if only Woody had used him better, but other than that, we’re not paying a dang thing. LOL…

Stating the Obvious

June 24th, 2009
3:40 pm

Sorry, Rod. I’m pretty damned sure that if the Hawks brass read this post, they don’t give a rat’s butt about someone who pretty much never posts except to bash a single player. It’s your opinion that Marvin is a mere role player – and dunno if you noticed, but you’re pretty much alone in your assessment of him. So if they do read this blog, they’ll probably take the majority opinion that Marvin is a very good player who is misused in Woody’s offense rather than your view that he is a “role player.”

Don’t kid yourself. 98% of your posts have been bashing Marvin. That’s why most people never bother replying to you.

ant banks

June 24th, 2009
3:40 pm

BIG RAY, ARIOSE, TERRELL, DOC,

what in the blazes is wrong with rondo? celts have been shoppin’ him everywhere. is he that poisonous. can garnett not control him? damn!! would the celts take acie and 19 straight up for rondo? would you guys sign off on that?

niremetal

June 24th, 2009
3:42 pm

Ray,

I actually have a bet with a friend that Marvin will average at least 18ppg if he goes to another team next year. It’s one bet I hope I lose…or rather, one I hope never even becomes a concern.

Remember Boris Diaw…

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
3:42 pm

Ray, I meant Rod lol….my bad hehehehe…

niremetal

June 24th, 2009
3:43 pm

Ant,

I’d sure as hell sign off on that, even though I’m not infatuated with Rondo. At the very least, he’d be an excellent PG rotation with Bibby – each of their strengths is the other’s weaknesses.

MannyT

June 24th, 2009
3:45 pm

doc, thanks for the Bernie Mullins info. I’ll look for that interview later tonight.

Ariose, you remembered the WAFFLE! Makes me smile. But to be fair, I am holding my tongue on Woody at least until Thanksgiving. I am waiting for his summer confessions, which will probably be fewer this year due to the team’s success. I still think he will talk about some change he needs to make in July/August that will be long forgotten before Christmas.

I’ll temporarily accept niremetal’s premise that Sund can dial up a better draft pick if he stays off the centers. I am a big advocate of BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE at 19. No, you should not expect the guy to start, but hopefully he can contribute. If Sund wants a big, he will probably get a pass on taking a big in the 2nd round or as a free agent pick up.

Melvin, I am not too worried about Marvin’s ability, but I am concerned about his back. That’s why I think the 1 yr tender is wise for the Hawks. A bad back can take you from hero to zero in the blink of an eye. If he’s healthy, we will miss him once he is gone.

Ray, keep in mind that some guys are great and other guys can be very good in the right system. Unless you have a time machine the whole Marvin vs the PGs is done. For all the whining in Blogtopia, it is not Marvin’s fault that he was drafted at 2. Is he worth his price? Last summer, Sund said Chills wasn’t worth his price until he knew he could underbid.

mini rant!!!! If you think any employee is worth say 50K, it is easy to offer him 100K AFTER someone else offers him 150K. Last summer you get the sense that this is what happened to Chills here. What is Marvin worth to Sund?? That is a very tricky question when most of your team is now unrestricted free agents. Sund actually has a reason to pay less attention to his one RFA this summer. mini rant ends!!!

BWAF

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
3:50 pm

Ant, dunno whats going on with Rondo, but if he comes here Smoove and Bibby would sure put him in his place if it came down to it……without hesitation. You know how those two are. Bibby/Eddie House and Team Dime have had more than a few nightclub lawsuits against them and is Josh is well, josh. Never one to hold his tounge lol. Besides, he’splayed with Rondo befor. Don’t think they’re dood buddies or anythin though lol.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
3:52 pm

I think those nightclub incidents were more of Eddie House’s fault than Bibbys though lol….

ACCTDAWG

June 24th, 2009
3:53 pm

Acie and Speedy to GS for Crawford

hawks_wizzzzz

June 24th, 2009
3:54 pm

wow jamal crawford to the hawks or at least close

Astro Joe

June 24th, 2009
3:58 pm

doc, I too look forward to hearing the Bernie interview. Thanks for the summary and the notification. I didn’t know that Belkin brought him into the fold. I did hear recently that his new business is working with GA Tech. Sounds like he has found a way to get his venture off the ground even in this stormy economy. Too bad a man with that type of business savvy couldn’t stay employed with the ASG. I don’t know who initiated the split but it appears that he at least “had a clue” about how to run a sports franchise.

DSS82

June 24th, 2009
3:58 pm

Sekou,

What’s up with the proposed trade.

R

June 24th, 2009
3:58 pm

Per espn.com…..Hawks are about to trade Speedy and Acie law to the Warriors for Jamal Crawford!!!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4284512

G-Man

June 24th, 2009
3:58 pm

HEY GUYS THIS JUST IN THE HAWKS ARE GETTING JAMAL CRAWFORD FOR ACIE LAW AND SPEEDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CHECK OUT ESPN.

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
4:00 pm

I’m diggin’ it. Jamaal can score. Now I’d expect a pg drafted…

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
4:01 pm

*Good Buddies lol

*Played

*Before

MannyT, lol I love those acronyms! I’ll wait to see what happens with Woody but i’m not holding my breath lol. Same ol’, same ol’ if you ask me.

Ant, I doubt Rondo will be traded though. Danny Ainge said so in a public press confence yeaterday. This is just overblown media hype because they have nothing better to talk about until tomorrow night.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
4:02 pm

Astro Joe

June 24th, 2009
4:03 pm

If this Crawford trade is true, then I want BK back.

Crawford makes $20M over the next two seasons. We just likely lost Marvin and Bibby in liue of a SG who chucks shots. He plays ZERO defense and chucks shots. He has a ton of money on his contract and he chucks shots. Please, don’t let this happen. This is almost as bad as the day we acquired Antoine Walker (my least favorite player in NBA history). WTF problem does Crawford address? They better be moving Joe, because I don’t want to see Joe and Jamal on the floor together.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

LEA

June 24th, 2009
4:03 pm

wow jamal crawford, I love his game…so to me that means no Ellington in the draft… then again knowing woody he will try to play Crawford at pg anywayz lol..I still say if Jennings or Lawson falls to us. We have to pick either one of them….

Astro Joe

June 24th, 2009
4:05 pm

UGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

O'Brien

June 24th, 2009
4:05 pm

I dont think Woody would want Rondo. Sure, he plays good defense and rebounds, but his jumper needs work. And we all know how Woody feels about PG’s who cant hit the open jumper consistently.

Plus how much of Rondo’s success is based on playing with the big 3?

No NBA trades today? I thought we would hear something…

niremetal

June 24th, 2009
4:05 pm

One last thing, and something that Ariose touched on. You can’t have a team on the floor where everyone is “assertive” in the way that Mark Bradley and others say Marvin is not. You can’t have a team on the floor with 5 chiefs and no Indians. Hell, you usually can’t win if you have 3 chiefs and 2 Indians. We have a team with three “assertive” offensive players in Josh, Joe, and Bibby (that’s in descending order of their “assertiveness” when they get the ball).

Let’s say we trade Marvin for a more assertive player in his mold…say, Al Harrington. For that matter, let’s say we trade Horford for Chris Bosh or Amare. Would that really be a positive impact on team chemistry? Can you name me one team that won a title with 4 starters who were “assertive” on offense? Most title-winning teams have at least 2 starters (if not 3) who are distinctly NOT assertive on offense. Even the 2004 Pistons had Prince and Big Ben, both of whom “fit in” to the offense.

And that brings me to another point. To whatever degree Marvin isn’t “assertive,” that’s really only true of him on the offensive end. On the other end of the floor, he was pretty damned assertive all year. No one played closer man-to-man D. Marvin looked like he’d studied tapes of Tayshaun Prince, who plays suffocatingly close defense on his man and uses his length to bother his opponent without committing fouls. Marvin is not at Tayshaun’s level on D – not remotely (at least not yet). But the only player we had who played more aggressive man-to-man D this year than he did was Mario.

In any case, we will never know for sure whether Marvin can pull a JJ if he were the 1st or 2nd option instead of the 4th until 1) Woody is fired; or 2) Marvin leaves. But until then, I hope people stop with the idea that it’s a BAD thing to try and fit into the offense when you’re playing alongside three guys who will want to get their shots no matter what.

Sekou Smith

June 24th, 2009
4:06 pm

Nothing done officially yet but the sides are talking and an agreement could be in the works at any time. This thing has just picked up steam today.

But it’s legit, barring some last minute breakdown, that this deal could indeed get done.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
4:06 pm

No way does Jamal Craford stay here. He’s probalby going to be traded for a Big…

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
4:07 pm

Damn, and I was just about to take a nap…

MannyT

June 24th, 2009
4:09 pm

The Crawford thing could be a great move. It should also free up the Bibby cap slot (renounce?) It should also make it easier to not expect a PG at 19. Sekou may approve as JC is a Wolverine ;-)

BPA (best player available) all the way!

The Sund dialling may actually work. Cool.

BWAF

niremetal

June 24th, 2009
4:11 pm

Wow. Ironic that I just made that long post about assertiveness before the Crawford trade announcement. I’m with Astro on this one. That trade pretty much forces us to slide Joe to SF and get rid of Marvin for nothing (since no team will be dumb enough to think that we’d match an offer for Marvin after this). I’m not high on Crawford at ALL. He’s been a chucker for bad teams all his career. He’s not good enough to supplant JJ as the top scoring option, but he’s not deferential enough to mold himself into the offense alongside JJ.

Ugh indeed…

niremetal

June 24th, 2009
4:12 pm

PS – Crawford has a .404 career FG%, one of the worst in the NBA. Shot selectivity and him don’t so much mesh…

Astro Joe

June 24th, 2009
4:15 pm

Un F’ing believable. Our front-court will be lucky to get 25 shots in a game (combined across the 3 starters). Come on, at half of Jamal’s salary, Flip could give us comparable production with the same minutes/shot attempts. And the same porous defense.

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
4:15 pm

Astro Joe,

But…but…Jamaal will take and hit shots from anywhere on the floor, playing next to Joe. And that’s what Woody wants. You said we needed a catch and shoot guard. Dadgummit, that’s what Woody wants, and as his blog publicist, I expect better support from you! Remember, Ricky boy says he involves his head coach in all decisions, so we can safely assume that Woody was on board with this. Hell, it may have been HIS IDEA. You should be proud of him.

MannyT

June 24th, 2009
4:16 pm

My only hmmm about this deal. Sund had to get Crawford to pass on his player option before the deal. That way you get him for 2 years. Per Hoopshype, he could opt out for 2009.

Otherwise, I like it. Nothing against Law, but Woody just seemed to have that I’m Just Not Into You thing. I suspect he will move on and do better elsewhere.

Astro, is Crawford’s defensive indifference worse than Bibby’s defensive liabilities? Given the offense he was in the past few years, I think they expected him to chuck shots.

The defensive concerns also give Mario another summer of scavenger hunt to find a jump shot.

BWAF

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
4:16 pm

ELLINGTON IS BETTER…

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
4:17 pm

“Un F’ing believable. Our front-court will be lucky to get 25 shots in a game (combined across the 3 starters).”

Woody’s offensive formula. What’s the problem? :)

Astro Joe

June 24th, 2009
4:18 pm

How’s this line-up supposed to defend or rebound? Rookie PG, Crawford, Joe, Smith & Horford? We finished 23rd in rebounding last season and we just got significantly smaller.

And we’re supposed to believe that a head coach who values efficiency and defense signed off on this deal? Hey, getting rid of Speedy and Acie is fine, but for a guy who shoots less than 41% from the field? And makes $20M over the next two years?

The time has come for the return of…….

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
4:19 pm

I NEED TO GO CONSOLE MY MAIN MAN WAYNE ELLINGTON ON TWITTER……SIGH, WE HAD A GOOD THING GOING WHILE IT LASTED……

Rod from College Park

June 24th, 2009
4:20 pm

Stating the Obvious,

“It’s your opinion that Marvin is a mere role player – and dunno if you noticed, but you’re pretty much alone in your assessment of him. So if they do read this blog, they’ll probably take the majority opinion that Marvin is a very good player who is misused in Woody’s offense rather than your view that he is a “role player.””

Actually, that was O’Brien’s opinion that he posted and I agreed. If you read some of the responses, you will see that I am not alone in my assessment. A guy that was picked #2 and averages 14 points a game would be considered a role player, and not a star or a superstar. He’s our 4th leading scorer, what else other than a role player, is he?

” That’s why most people never bother replying to you.”

I never have a problem with people replying to me. Look at you. This whole page is practically responding to me, so what are you talking about? Don’t Hate, Congratulate. It’s my opinion, not yours. Move on. I promise you, I don’t lose any sleep or miss any bill payments because people on the Hawks blog don’t respond to me. (LOL)

terrell barron,

I was not blaming Marvin, I realize he was hurt. What I am saying is that if Marvin had the skills and game of a player like Danny Granger, do you think we would have gotten swept. Do you think that the Cavaliers would have been able to send Lebron or West to double team Joe with no regard for who they were guarding? I don’t. Do you think that a injured Danny Granger would not be able to give you 15 points a game in any of those Cleveland games? I do.

Volman

June 24th, 2009
4:20 pm

What are you all complaining about? We just got Crawford for the garbage at the end of our bench. SPEEDY CLAXTON IS FOREVER GONE.

Thank the Lord.

This offseason isn’t over, guys. It has just begun.

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
4:21 pm

Look guys, I agree that Bibby’s defense sucked, but he brought veteran leadership. Would anyone want to sign up for 2 more years of Bibby’s poor defense at $20M for the next two seasons? Of course not.

Jamal is a catch and shoot but he doesn’t make the shots. Maybe I needed to qualify the statement.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
4:22 pm

CAN JAMAL PLAY POINT? IF SO WAYNE MAY STILL BE A GO? THEY MUST BE PLANNIG TO DRAFT LAWSON. WE JUST WORKED HIM OUT TODAY SO…..MUST HAVE BEEN SOME WORKOUT….

niremetal

June 24th, 2009
4:23 pm

In 2006-2007, the Knicks went 33-49.

That was the best team Jamal Crawford has ever played on.

In nine years in the league.

Just sayin.

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
4:25 pm

I hate to see Acie go but I’m sure glad to get Crawford in return… No more Law segments during the games…lol

glw

June 24th, 2009
4:25 pm

Even if Crawford is added, Sund isnt going to let Williams walk for free. AT the very least, he will get the qualifying offer. Adding Crawford does leave more questions than answers.

1. Do they still resign Bibby?

2. Do they resign Flip?

3. I think we definitely draft a PG now, with Law out of the picture.

UGA

June 24th, 2009
4:26 pm

What Crawford means?

Flip is gone, that would be my guess.

Crawford averaged more points than Flip (19 to his 12), he averaged more assist ( 5 to his 2), and he can play point, plus he torched the Hawks for 29 in Golden State this year.

His contract is huge, but, will we keep Bibby, Marvin and Zaza???

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
4:27 pm

Again, if Joe told him that he isn’t signing an extension and this is a precursor to trading Joe, then I can understand this move. But no way would I trade Marvin for Crawford and I truly believe that is what just happened. Even if you don’t believe that Marvin will be more than what he gave us earlier this year, Marvin won’t impede the development of Horford and Smith as offensive players. He won’t force bad shot after bad shot. He won’t play piss-poor defense game after game. And he wasn’t going to make $20M over the next two seasons.

For all of you who wanted our GM to do something for the sake of feeling like “at least we’re trying”, well, there you have it. We did something. I hope you remember that we did something when we’re discussing our odds of getting John Wall or Derrick Favors this time next summer.

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
4:28 pm

I guess the Hawks may look to sign Sessions or Jack if they don’t draft a PG….

LEA

June 24th, 2009
4:28 pm

his contract is huge which means either marvin or bibby will not be back. I think Bibby is gone.. And we draft Lawson tomorrow… I’m not the biggest Marvin fan but… He is too young for us to give up on him now.. He still has a lot of potential and room to grow..

UGA

June 24th, 2009
4:29 pm

He scored 50 v. Charlotte, 40 vs. Miami and 39 vs. New Orleans.

Could also mean Joe gets to rest more…..

doc

June 24th, 2009
4:29 pm

hmmm interesting info here. it does point to the fact woody likes guards that score and bigs that are deferential to it. it was the formula in philly and in detroit was it not. wasnt woody a guard as well? aj already stated my first thought regarding josh, marvin and al not getting into the thick of things as scorers. kind of wonder what they are thinking. now do we really need flip or bibby for that matter and is woody gong to give the reins over to jamal? still will be spending a lot for him but certainly less than the 6 mil on speedy, the 3 mil on acie, the 15 mil on bibby and 1.5 mil on flip. we might be getting all of that 25 mil for the low price of 9 mil in crawford, as he brings in one package what we got for all of them, and whoever fills that void even if it is flip. need some defense so i begin to think in terms of douglas if available and hansbrough or some other motor devoted to defense. maybe even lawson as he would become the replacement on the bench for acie. heh heh

ray i think aj is begginig to either break down or finally get the point about his coach. :-)

jerrywest

June 24th, 2009
4:32 pm

Crawford’s versatility gives Sund insurance against all negotiations (Bibby/JJ/Marvin/Flip).

fudd21

June 24th, 2009
4:34 pm

I think it means Bibby is gone as Crawford can play the point. He’s not your typical point but as we saw last year neither is Bibby. Plus Joe can play the point and really directed the offense at least as much if not more than Bibby. Yes he may be 20mil over 2 seasons but that is still cheaper than Bibby. I think it freed up some space to resign Marvin. Plus he has the ability to create on his own and should give Joe more rest. I personally love the trade.

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
4:34 pm

nire, so Chicago dumped him before they had that little run with Hinrich, Gordon and Deng? Ah man, that means he’s like Marbury… teams win right after he leaves.

Maybe we’re about to trade him to the Clippers straight up for Camby. Maybe we’ll package Crawford and Marvin (S&T) later this summer for a one-year rental of Bosh. Heck, send him to the Wizards, they’re collecting combo guards who play on one side of the floor exclusively. Just please, don’t let this be the biggest move of the off-season.

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
4:35 pm

Astro,

No need to turn into Anakin just yet. The deal isn’t official and the Hawks haven’t finish assembling their team for the upcoming season. Calm down, don’t make that deal with the dark side yet…

Volman

June 24th, 2009
4:35 pm

Can somebody give me the link where it says Crawford is going to be the starting point guard, Bibby won’t be resigned, Flip is gone, Marvin as well, and that the Hawks will be in the lottery?

Anyone?

niremetal

June 24th, 2009
4:36 pm

Oh, and $5 says that Acie Law averages 13 and 6 next year for Golden State if this happens…

I’m cool with the trade if we keep Marvin and Bibby (or Marvin and a PG to replace Bibby or Bibby and a solid perimeter defender to replace Marvin). Otherwise…oy.

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
4:36 pm

Astro,

Look on the bright side, we may end up with John Wall. Then the FORCE will be with us….

BosnianBaller

June 24th, 2009
4:38 pm

Great trade.I would love to move Marvin.We need shooters and this gets it done.I don’t think they will trade Joe,Josh,and Al.I think Marvin will be signed and dealt.PLEASE DON’T TRADE JOE OR JOSH.Sign Bibby and Crawford will be the 6th man

O'Brien

June 24th, 2009
4:38 pm

If Acie is healthy, I think he will play well in GS.

Be careful what you wish for LOL. I wanted the Hawks to make a move, but I’m not sure how Crawford fits.

Do we slide JJ to the 3, Crawford as our SG, and Marvin coming off the bench? After all, Marvin excelled as a 6th man in college.

Or maybe we bring Crawford off the bench as our top scorer (No more Flip). Crawford can give JJ a break at SG, and we can play both sometimes (slide JJ to the 3).

If this deal happens, WDWD? (What does Woody do?).

jerrywest

June 24th, 2009
4:38 pm

Didn’t Crawford score 39 on the Hornets in a crucial game on the last week of the season, and made NO go down from 2nd position to the 6th/7th position?

niremetal

June 24th, 2009
4:40 pm

Didn’t Crawford score 39 on the Hornets in a crucial game on the last week of the season, and made NO go down from 2nd position to the 6th/7th position?

Didn’t Crawford go 5 for 21 from the floor like 34678 times in his career?

SSI FAN

June 24th, 2009
4:40 pm

Think about this. Crawford does not renounce his player option and becomes an unrestricted free agent. The Hawks free up some salary cap money which might be helpful in making trades or saves the cash strapped ASG some money.

terrell barron

June 24th, 2009
4:40 pm

How can yall complain about Crawford making 10 mill, when Craig was making 6 for doing absolutely NOTHING? And Bibby made 15 mill last year. Give me a break. At least Sund did something. Maybe there’s another deal in the works? Btw, I love JJ at the 3.

jerrywest

June 24th, 2009
4:40 pm

BK finally got his tall point guard.

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
4:41 pm

Volman, we’re spending approximately $35M on 3 players. If we get back to our $65M payroll, that’s about $3M each for 10 more players. Now tell me, how do we fit Marvin or Bibby into that budget?

niremetal

June 24th, 2009
4:42 pm

Well, y’all know what I think. If Jamal’s ok being SuperFlip, then I’m cool. Otherwise, someone point me towards the nearest tall building to jump off…

Rod from College Park

June 24th, 2009
4:43 pm

Wow,

I did state earlier this year that I would like Jamal Crawford here. Great move. Maybe Sund does read the blogs!!!! Guys while I do agree, there are some concerns, Crawford is better defensively than Bibby and can play the 1 and the 2. You have to look at the Hawks main problem in the playoffs. We could not score. I will take Jamal Crawford wide open shooting a Jump shot over anyone on our team except Joe. My only question is do we consider him a point or a 2 guard. Once I hear that from Sund, I will be able to tell what direction we are going. We just got another 20 ppg guy. I will renew my season tickets now, if this deal goes through.

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
4:43 pm

Nire, I think it was 34,677 times. Stop exaggerating.

jerrywest

June 24th, 2009
4:44 pm

Didn’t Crawford go 5 for 21 from the floor like 34678 times in his career?

So has Bibby.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
4:44 pm

DAMN, I JUST HIT UP EVERY SPORTSWRITER ON TWITTER LOL. I MADE THIS THA BIGGEST DEAL SINCE SLICED BREAD HEHEHEHEHEHE!!!!!

kwooden1

June 24th, 2009
4:45 pm

If the trade is as advertised (Speedy and Law) for Crawford, then its a steal. I thought Crawford would be leaving Golden State, but I thought they would definitely try and get more than Acie for Crawford! The money isn’t as bad as you would think especially if you let Flip walk,. This is definitely a steal if the Hawks can make this happen!!

GO HAWKS!!

terrell barron

June 24th, 2009
4:45 pm

Anakin, we should’nt try to fit Bibby into that budget. IMO

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
4:46 pm

FROM LANG WHITAKER:

“I like this Crawford/Atlanta deal (if it happens)…all Hawks do is go one on one and that’s all JCreezy does, too”

Riverdale Hoops Fan

June 24th, 2009
4:46 pm

Only time will tell if this is a good move… Gotta see what else Sund does. If Crawford is here to add depth/replace Murray or Mo as the first guard off the bench, then I think I like it. If Crawford’s here to start, we could be in major trouble.

(my optimistic guess: Bibby’s gone; Zaza, Marvin and maybe even Flip come back, we use the pick on the best front court player available (hopefully Hansbrough) and then sign Jarrett Jack)

jerrywest

June 24th, 2009
4:46 pm

what we were paying for JJ/Josh/Speedy/Acie will now be paid to JJ/Josh/Crawford.

BosnianBaller

June 24th, 2009
4:47 pm

All you people that don’t like the trade calm down.There will be more moves to come.Just remember what Ben Gordan did in the playoffs.Crawford is capable of the same.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
4:47 pm

ROD, YOU KNOW DAMN WELL THIS WAS NOT A CONCENCUS BLOG MOVE LOL!!!!

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
4:47 pm

If this deal goes thru, do we still accuse the ASG as being cheap/broke???

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
4:47 pm

Rod, playoffs? Playoffs? Did you say playoffs? That’s funny. We were badly out-rebounded in the post-season. You think a chucker like Crawford will have success when defenses are playing at their best? Joe will be able to crash the boards at SF? Again, 23rd in rebounding last year and now we have a SF combo of Joe, Evans and the promising Othella Hunter to help Josh and Horford (oh and RandMo, how could I forget about RandMo).

Clyde

June 24th, 2009
4:50 pm

Jamal Crawford to Atlanta for Acie Law and Speedy Claxton. Ok but we still need a point guard and a center.

Acie Law deserves better and coach Nelson will make him into a quality point guard.

FIRE SUND AND WOODY

O'Brien

June 24th, 2009
4:50 pm

I dont see Jamal opting out of his deal. So we will have him for 2 years, right?

If this deal happens, then that would mean Bibby is gone. And thats fine with me. Sign Jarrett Jack. He will make less than Bibby, and he doesnt need the ball like Bibby does, plus he plays good defense.

The Crawford deal (if it goes through) provides the Hawks some flexibility, and thats a good thing.

newkid

June 24th, 2009
4:51 pm

My gosh AJ, this rumored move really has you hyperventilating. Could it be that Chef Sund is just starting to collect the groceries, and we won’t really know what’s on the dinner menu for 6-8 weeks (or more)? This is a deal that could have easily been executed after the draft and after June 30th, but looks like it’ll get done before the draft. Maybe there are reasons it’s getting done sooner rather than later. Not a big Sund fan (to this point), but maybe we ought to allow him to get a bit further along on his shopping list – since it seems that after entire year of ‘evaluating’ he has finally started – before we discard the asparagus.

Just bugging you man…

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
4:52 pm

Dang I remember when Acie/Speed use to get dog on this blog. Now we are crying for possibly trading these guys…

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
4:55 pm

CLYDE, I GUESS THAT A NO-GO ON THOSE “FREE!! ACIE!! IN 09′” T-SHIRTS…

jerrywest

June 24th, 2009
4:57 pm

I think Acie will be a stud in GS, but Crawford will help Woody get another contract. Darn it.

Rod from College Park

June 24th, 2009
4:57 pm

All of you that say Crawford can be a 6th man are funny. Can yoou actually say that Bibby is better than Crawford. I have personally watched Crawford torch the Hawks for his whole career. He might have a 28 ppg career average agianst us. Did Bibby and Joe not chuck all year long? Damn guys, we just got a proven scorer for two guys who played about 40 minutes all year. Wait and see what the next move is. I just hope that Marvin is gone!!!!!!!!! Great move Sund.

cp

June 24th, 2009
4:57 pm

I think this means Bibby is gone. I like Crawford but his defense is as bad as Bibby’s. The one thing he does better is drive to the hoop. He has a questionable shot selection though. I guess we go with a big backcourt. In this offense we don’t need a traditional point anyway. I think Flip wont be back either. If we bring back Marvin and Pachulia we should be alright. With the 19th pick we have to get a pg now. I guess it will be Maynor instead of Teague. We need to get another second rounder and grab Danny Green. I think Crawford fits in with what we do offensively.

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
4:59 pm

Again, $35M on 3 players. Assume a $65M payroll. Evans and RandMo make about $3.5M together. That’s $26.5M with only 5 players signed on the roster. Let’s say that you need at least 13 players. 8 more players averaging $3.3M. Let’s say that you bring in 3 minimum wage earners (like Garnder, Hunter and West). That’s about $2.4M. So now we need to sign 5 guys at less than $5M each. Well, that eliminates Childress and Marvin. (By the way, unless you’re getting back draft picks for Marvin, you can’t even afford to S&T him for a player at this point. So I expect that Sund will renounce him soon. Chill’s agent should tell him to return so that Sund will likewise be forced to remounce him and we can lose 2 lottery picks for Jamal Crawford). Our 1st round pick will earn around $2M so now we’re at 4 players and $22M. So we need 4 players to sign for around the MLE or $5M. Is it doable? Absolutely. Is it likely a playoff team? No way, no how. Was it a wise trade to back yourself into such a corner for Jamal Crawford?

terrell barron

June 24th, 2009
5:00 pm

If we keep Crawford, I think we resign Flip and Zaza, sign-and-trade Marvin along with Mo Evans for a big body, draft Sam Young at 19 to replace Marvin, and replace Mo with the 2nd rdr.(Dionte Christmas)

Riverdale Hoops Fan

June 24th, 2009
5:01 pm

Bibby’s out… But now Slick Rick’s gonna grab Jarrett Jack for the 4J starting backcourt (with JC getting heavy minutes as either JJ’s first sub off the bench). Now, we gotta bring back Marvin, Zaza, maybe even Flip and then add another solid front court piece (Hansbrough?).

And any time you can pull off a trade with Golden State, that’s generally a good thing. We just got Crawford for Craig Claxton and Acie Law IV. The same Crawford that GS got in exchange for Al Harrington. Can you imagine anyone trading Acie Law for Al Harrington?? I think the GS front office is secretly being run by Billy Knight–and thank God we got Jamal Crawford and not Corey “worst contract ever” Maggette.

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
5:02 pm

Anakin,
Sounds like you hate Crawford more than Rod hates Marvin…lol

Rod, just poking at ya…

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
5:02 pm

Heh heh heh…..

Manny, I’m not mad about Crawford.

Volman

June 24th, 2009
5:03 pm

Astro Joe,

I understand your anger completely, but again you have to realize this off season is not other. I am hoping there is something that Sund is working on (a bigger picture)

I cannot begin to explain how EXCITED I am that Speedy Cla Cla Claxton will be GONE FOREVER. The guy is nothing. I even tried to be nice to him and wish him good luck for the season at the season ticket holder event and he gave me the cold shoulder. Good riddance, you did nothing for this franchise.

I understand that Crawford costs $10 million per year. What if Bibby wants that? What if Flip wants $4-5 million? The Hawks have an insurance policy if one of those two are gone. The Hawks have options, they do.

Let’s just all take a deep breath and let this thing work out and we’ll see what happens.

THIS IS SO MUCH FUN! Let the madness begin!

Volman

June 24th, 2009
5:05 pm

Over..not other!

jerrywest

June 24th, 2009
5:05 pm

Anakin Joe – Does your calculation change if we give Crawford’s money to Speedy/Acie?

Blast

June 24th, 2009
5:08 pm

I like the Crawford deal. Hawks need shooters, something Acie could not do, and Speedy basically stole Hawks money for 3 years. Don’t think Sund is done wheeling and dealing yet. and I also don’t see why Hawks cannot still pick a point at #19. Crawford is more a shooting than a point guard.

Go Hawks, Go.

At least Sund is being proative rather than reactive this off-season. Camby is available. Now if only we could off load some more floatsam and debris to get Camby. Wonder how much payroll the ASG is willing to shoulder?

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
5:12 pm

Some of you are just too funny.

You act like the draft has already happened, free agency is done, the summer is over, and the season is about to start. Please get your little pink panties out of a wad, or change over to a freakin’ thong.

newkid

June 24th, 2009
5:13 pm

If Crawford isn’t a part of a draft night package deal tomorrow, could it be that he and the Hawks have possibly already agreed a 4-year $30 million deal (with a team option on a 5th year) that becomes effective on July 1st? Why would he do something like that? Largely because of uncertainty about what he might reasonably expect to earn under a new collective bargaining agreement when his current contract expires, but also because at 31 years of age (i.e., after his current deal expires) he can’t be sure he’ll even get a job in the league at the league minimum (whatever that might be in 2011/2012).

Cowa

June 24th, 2009
5:14 pm

Newkid, the deal is being done now because it falls $22k short of the trade rules if they wait until July 1. Could have been done after the draft, but would need anpther part (RandMo) to execute after June 30.

My gut tells me Crawford is our starting PG. Joe’s not moving to SF. It think sund wanted Sessions and doesn’t think Milwaukee will let him go after making the moves yesterday, and Sund wanted a known.

Also, his salary will go off the books when Horford is up for his raise. My guess here is that we are drafting our PG of the future (Jennings or Teague, possibly Maynor or Douglas) and Crawford is going to fill in until the guy is ready, then assume a Flip role.

Lastly, Flip was going to hit up against our MLE money, and that wouldn’t allow us to sign any vets in the offseason. That’s the part about Flip I hated. This frees up that money to go after a big instead, along with resigning Marvin at $8M and Zaza at $5.5. That would put the Hawks at just over $58M with 10 of our roster slots full (includes our two draft picks). Leaves us with the full MLE of $5.6 and sign two guys at 700k-1M each, and we’re at the $65M target. And we can still extend JJ to starting at $17M in 2010 adn stil be under the luxury tax. This can work…

Volman

June 24th, 2009
5:14 pm

Big Ray, what about those Tim Tebow panties? Do you have any extra? ;)

terrell barron

June 24th, 2009
5:15 pm

Maybe we’re moving up in the draft in a deal that involves Crawford? It’s possible

Volman

June 24th, 2009
5:16 pm

Cowa, beautiful work. Keep it up!

Cowa

June 24th, 2009
5:17 pm

I’m just bummed we couldn’t work Brandon Wright into the deal. Randolph is the guy they love at the same position.

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
5:17 pm

Volman, if Bibby wanted $10M then you offer Sessions or Jack $6M. If Flip wanted $5M then you offer Rashard McCants $3M. What I don’t think you do is back yourself into a corner before free agency starts and you can explore all of the options.

Logo, it’s harder to complete a roster when you pay one guy $10M vs. 3 guys a combined $10M. Heck, why not just find 6 guys and pay them $10M each? Then find another 7 at the $700k minimum and you can stay at $65M. But what are the odds that formula translates into a playoff appearance?

tbhawksfan

June 24th, 2009
5:21 pm

Two useless players costing nearly $8M for a 20 scorere at $10M, where’s the problem?

Crawford also totally opens up our options at the 1 and 2.

Bibby’s gone.

What else will Sund do before the end of the summer?

MW seems like the only other real question. Zaza and Flip will likely command more than their worth.

I think we can keep MW and sign another contributing big or PG; depending on what we draft.

Ramon

June 24th, 2009
5:24 pm

Astro, I understand your frustration, I really do. However, statistically what do you think we could have gotten for Acie and Speedy? And to add to it, can you prove that we could have gotten something better? Acie and Speedy, more times than not, were paid a combined $8 million dollars together to sit and watch the game like we did. True they had on better suits than we did, but they were just spectators.

Personally, I love Acie’s game. I think he has good enough skills to be another Rod Strickland. But he wasn’t playing here, and neither was Speedy. So with the subtraction of Acie and Speedy, and the addition of Crawford, you’re really only playing $2 million more for someone who triples their production.

So if Bibby was making $15 mil, and we all KNOW there is no team willing to pay him that again, you know that his salary will drop **at least ** 2-3 mil next season. So does a new contract for Bibby, and Crawford’s contract not equal or saves money when comparing to Bibby (old contract), Speedy and Law? So how does that really hamper so many more things? Marvin is not going to get offered $10 mil a year. So you’re not looking for a substantial raise for him.

Is this a great deal, I won’t say that. But this deal doesn’t put the Hawks in any worse position than they were in previously. And as far as a bench, it actually adds to the bench. Especially, if Mo could be traded for a decent back up big.

Volman

June 24th, 2009
5:24 pm

Anakin, I’ll be back in about an hour to discuss further! Gotta drive home from work!

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
5:24 pm

Cowa, so that makes our bench #19, #49, Evans, RandMo and Zaza. Plus 2 minimum wage players (like West and Hunter).

Having Marvin on board (according to your scenario) makes me feel better, but that still looks remarkably like a 30-win team.

jerrywest

June 24th, 2009
5:25 pm

AJ – Its better to spend your 10 mil on 40 quality minutes then spend it on 3 guys who will giv you 5 combined mins/game as fillers. Sund is also use Craw as leverage in all his negotiations that will save him tons of money. Bibby/Flip/Marvin’s agents aren’t happy today.

jhan

June 24th, 2009
5:27 pm

AJ – we paid Bibby, JJ, & Josh approximately $40M last year & we had a pretty decent team. Not sure why you are so irate.

Your boy Woody loves to run his offense through guards so here’s another one that can score.

I get your point about being outrebounded – but Woodson’s defense calls for our bigs to chase little people around the 3pt line. Does it really matter if Marvin or Joe is playing the SF in that situation?

If Sund were to get a legit big man do you think Woodson would change his offense & defense to properly utilize a big guy?

I’m not totally sold on Crawford but what we gave up to get him was absolutely nothing. We traded 2 injury prone guards that never saw the floor for a guy that will at least allow JJ to get some rest. You might be suprised at how JJ plays only averaging 35-38 minutes per game instead of 41-43 minutes.

doc

June 24th, 2009
5:31 pm

seems to me that we are down about 14 mil over last year with the loss of speedy, bibby, acie and flip. i hope we can spend it on others that need to be added back to the mix like zaza and marvin. maybe it would take about 4 to 6 mil of that for these two guys. we have to keep someone from last year’s bench or starting rotation. mo is not a starter. get a player in the draft to play right away for some minutes and bring in another point or swing man and we might be in the mix again next year as well. if there is something left over for a serviceable big then cool.

melvin i had the anakin image right away too.

aj the problem with jack or sessions is that they are rfa’s right? that means we are not in control of our destiny rather someone else is holding us. yes they are nice players, only trouble is can we get them without being held hostage? i see this as saary relief not what you are making it to be if we get one more player to compliment the front court, say flip at 3 mil for two years or three or a point in the draft that woody can use.

RealSquawk

June 24th, 2009
5:33 pm

How could you complain about this trade.

If we don’t keep Bibby so what? What did Bibby do shoot threes well and I guess pass the ball from time to time to players in scoring position. Now we have a better scorer and simply because of size a better defender.

PLus he is a better scorer or did I already say that. His contract is not as long as what we would have to sign Bibby for and he is younger.

NOw if we could swap picks maybe 2 for one they got our next two first round picks with the 2010 pick being lottery protected.

Neither Acie or Speedy want to play here anymore anyway. Rick Sund if you pull this off you will get A for trade ability. Its not as big as the Glove for Allen, but it is pretty nice and pretty appropriate for this team.

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
5:33 pm

Ramon, it’s everything. Not just the money. It’s the money, it’s the player, it’s the fit, it’s the impact to the front court, it’s the possibility that we lose Marvin and/or Chill, it’s the whole thing. And it’s the timing. This smells like a desperation move. And I don’t understand why the desperation. If our FAs were going to ask for too much, then you renounce them and go after someone else. I recall that Orlando renounced Darko after free agency began when they decided to sign Rashard Lewis. But it wasn’t until they had Lewis practically in hand. It’s hard for me to believe that Sund turned over every rock before making what I consider to be a desperate (and fundamentally flawed) deal.

RealSquawk

June 24th, 2009
5:33 pm

How could you complain about this trade.

If we don’t keep Bibby so what? What did Bibby do shoot threes well and I guess pass the ball from time to time to players in scoring position. Now we have a better scorer and simply because of size a better defender.

PLus he is a better scorer or did I already say that. His contract is not as long as what we would have to sign Bibby for and he is younger.

NOw if we could swap picks maybe 2 for one they got our next two first round picks with the 2010 pick being lottery protected.

Neither Acie or Speedy want to play here anymore anyway. Rick Sund if you pull this off you will get A for trade ability. Its not as big as the Glove for Allen, but it is pretty nice and pretty appropriate for this team.

I hope they dont throw chillz.

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
5:33 pm

Astro Joe (or Anakin, I fail to see the difference),

I know the amount of money Crawford would make disturbs you. And I know you see him as a “chucker” who plays no defense. But this is no guarantee that Bibby doesn’t come back. Slow down, because Jamaal may not even be staying. If he does, we may have a new sixth man.

I seem to recall that you had so much disdain for Mr. “hang nail Acie” and nobody cared about Speedy. We just used both to gain a more valuable asset. Let’s not forget the importance of asset management.

Having said that, this COULD turn out to be a less than stellar move, but I wouldn’t shove us out of the playoffs just yet. Unless of course you want to revisit a statment you once made about not expecting us to be as good next year anyway. Oh yes, I remember that, and you do too.

Summer ain’t over. Hold them fake light sabers.

newkid

June 24th, 2009
5:34 pm

Just saw a few video clips of Crawford’s offensive arsenal on the Hawksquawk site. He reminds me of a poor man’s John Wall? Same height, same body, same length, but Wall is ambidextrous and far more explosive even at his tender young age.

Rod from College Park

June 24th, 2009
5:34 pm

Enter your comments here

Nookah

June 24th, 2009
5:36 pm

I understand the concerns for the payroll. However, we are all making assumptions about the ASG and the payroll they are willing to carry. I do agree history is all we have to use as the bench mark. However, consider this: Could Woody be seeing a window of opportunity closing with JJ having 1 year left on his contract? Is Woody going to give it his best shot for the final year in his contract and hoping to get an extension?

I suspect we are not done dealing. Rick (who I lambasted earlier) may make me eat crow after all. I will gladly eat it and ask for more if he gets us some more depth (a servicable big and good young PG, along with some more interior toughness).

I love the trade though. We basically got more production on our squad than we had last year and also taking up 1 roster spot less. The playoffs showed us we need more scoring and more toughness inside and I hope that’s exactly what Sund will get us.

Go Hawks!!!!

Rick Sund

June 24th, 2009
5:37 pm

Bloggers, tell me how my Kool-Aid taste!

Bloggers, tell me how my Kool-Aid taste!

RealSquawk

June 24th, 2009
5:38 pm

can we make this trade before july 1st?

do the salaries even match?

J-MAN

June 24th, 2009
5:40 pm

We now have depth at SF and SG but WE NEED BIGS, get me Tibiet or Camby or Sheed please!!!

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
5:40 pm

jhan, you know why you’re not “totally sold on Crawford?” Because he’s essentially Ricky Davis or Cuttino Mobley or Larry Hughes or a slew of other guys who can score but win nothing.

Some of you were all bent out of shape during a 47 win season (it actually happened, we won 47 games). Angry despite earning a 4th seed (yes, that really happened too). You all wanted to know what Sund would do to take us to the next step.

So bringing in Jamal Crawford as our PG makes you feel better?

Wabe

June 24th, 2009
5:41 pm

Honestly, how many minutes did speedy + acie average? Speedy is like the Hawks version of Mike Hampton, he just sits on the bench with injuries for a couple years and gets paid.

None of us know how Acie would’ve developed in a Hawks uniform, but the addition of Crawford would be an INSTANT UPGRADE. We’re not talking years down the road, we’re taking what we get based on WHAT WE KNOW NOW. I would think that of all people, HAWKS FANS would understand that a sure thing is a better thing to bank on than someone who has ‘upside’ or ‘potential’. Just look at Marvin Williams as an example. Marvin Williams was the 6th man coming off the bench for the 2005 NCAA champion UNC Tarheels. He was drafted at the #2 spot by the Hawks SOLELY BASED ON POTENTIAL. Up until now, he hasn’t exactly lived up to his potential. I wouldn’t go as far as to call Marvin a bust just yet, just as I’m not calling Acie Law a bust, but instead, I WOULD RATHER HAVE A SURE THING than a DEVELOPMENT PLAYER RIGHT NOW.

Basically, we’re trading two players who barely got on the court to ever produce for a player who will come in here and instantly upgrade the Hawks offense. Crawford’s not your best shooter, but he’s capable of driving the lane, and will help the Hawks fight off some of those 4-5 minute scoring droughts we constantly saw this past season from game to game.

I would say it’s a no brainer.

RealSquawk

June 24th, 2009
5:42 pm

Yes BLogger Cameos!!

How is this desperation? If the deal goes through as stated then we would have lost two guards one we know is finished the other we don’t know anything about and both we know didnt want to be here.

And lets say he opts out i guess this year or next year. How much money would we have with both his contract and Joes contract off the books.

Harry Hawk

June 24th, 2009
5:42 pm

You know, Crawford hasn’t averaged less than 32 minutes a game since 2002-03 (it was 35 minutes or above for all seasons but one). If this trade gets done, you know the man is going to want a lot of PT. I highly doubt that he is going to see the Hawks as his shot at a championship, so I guess we’ll see how much he’s willing to sacrifice.

Mel on a car phone

June 24th, 2009
5:43 pm

Sekou

What are your thoughts on Brandon Jennings? If he’s there in the 1st round, do you think the Hawks would take him? Do you think they would take BJ Mullens over a PG?

Thanks. I’ll hang up and listen.

jerrywest

June 24th, 2009
5:43 pm

With Crawford as the starting PG, does Chillz fit in to this team better than Marv?

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
5:44 pm

Crawford is 29, Ellington is 22…… both are 6′5….

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
5:45 pm

Ray, I didn’t expect us to be as good because I didn’t think we would approach a $65M payroll. But if we’re paying 3 guys $35M, then we better be close to a $65M payroll or most of us will be working out for Larry Drew to get a roster position on the Hawks.

Come on, y’all are telling me that spending $35M on Joe, Josh and Jamal is a good thing? Come on, be honest.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
5:45 pm

wayne is a better shooter……crawford can’t play point

Sautee

June 24th, 2009
5:46 pm

“Didn’t Crawford go 5 for 21 from the floor like 34678 times in his career?”

Actually I think that was JJ. ;-)

Crawford was 2219 times.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
5:46 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzy_ja_9yLM

Give it up for Acie one more time y’all.

Tyger

June 24th, 2009
5:47 pm

Good Deal, so far…

Rick Sund is a much better trader than drafter, so this eases the pressure some. He just added 20 ppg. to the backcourt, younger quicker legs and more aggression to the scheme all for two guys who were roster filler. In re. salary, ATL increased payroll by $500,000, equal to Gardner or Hunters slot. No biggie.

Bibby is out, good riddance, he had lost his job to Flip anyway. Question now is what to do about Flip. I think he’s unaffected. He’s done such a great job for us, plus Sund knows what he has in Flip, questions is the dollar amount. We essentially have 3 combo guards now – JJ, JC, Flip – all can handle the rock and rotate between the guard positions. I dont believe in the true point guard in this day and age. Folks call C.Paul a true PG, but he shoots more than anybody.

Bottom Line: Hawks upgraded – wont get final verdict until playoffs but I’d rather face Lebron with JJ and Crawdaddy than JJ and slow footed Bibby.

RealSquawk

June 24th, 2009
5:56 pm

We do need to take into the account the decrease in production that this might have for Marvin and Josh and Al. As Hoopinion stated.

We have put these guys in an unfortunate position since they were in the league. The fact is we all expect these guys to be the GUYS, BUT WE DON’T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THAT FOR EACH ONE OF THOSE GUYS THE SCHEMES ARE BUILT TO HELP THEM BECOME ANYMORE THAN A PIECE IN A PUZZLE.

With a coach who adequately understands ball sharing this trade we surerly put us into the eastern conference finals if Marvin and Chillz, and zaza returned.

But for Josh Al and Marvin this trade only puts more pressure on them. They have to watch two veterans push the ball into the ground while they stand around. And they had to do it their whole careers J.J. Stephen jackson, antione Walker.

It’s sad day for those three, but who knows maybe this is too much for Woody the team becomes dysfunctional we start off with a loosing record and then we pick up a new coach and all is right and fluid in the world.

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
6:00 pm

Strange how there wasn’t NEAR as much noise when we dumped FOUR guys that we didn’t have a lot of use for (gosh, four guys…there went the depth), for ONE guy who was making $5 million more than Crawford, and we didn’t know at the time what he would give us, or how he would fit. Yet there was barely a peep about this $15 million dollar guy….

Look, even if Jamaal stays, he presents options. How does a shooter like him change anything? If you are a Woody advocate, you SHOULD be happy as you have a more athletic catch and shoot guy who can actually get away from a defender to get his own shot, and he’s taller and faster than Flip.

Again, We have some options to work with. We managed to get an asset that can provide scoring, and by being a threat, will probably help JJ to shoot more than the wonderful 43% he shot this past year. Yes, I know, Jamaal is not a great or even good defender. But he will give you the scoring, as he can get his shot.

And one more time…he’s an asset that you can use on the market…a better asset than a broken down Speedy, and a guy like Law, who is still an unknown, and who some people are all too willing to label as a walking injury.

Even if you’re NOT a Woody advocate, you have to be happy that there is at least SOME possible insurance against a failure in free agency as far as our own guys go. A piece of insurance that can score, and that is something we have needed. It may not be the best, but it also wasn’t headed for Europe due to an inability to get a job in the States.

Rod from College Park

June 24th, 2009
6:01 pm

I can tell you this. We won’t have to beg Jamal to shoot, if we make the playoffs, like we did with Joe this year. The guy went for 50 two times this year, and beat the Lakers by himself. For those of you who say he has never been to the playoffs, neither had Pau Gasol.

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
6:03 pm

Anakin Joe,

Listen to what I am saying. All I’m saying is that it’s not over yet. Calm down. I’ll scream right along with you when the roster is set, if it doesn’t look right. Chill man, you’re sharper than this.

Sam

June 24th, 2009
6:03 pm

ESPN reporting that deal is on hold as Woodson isn’t sold on it, along with issues about Crawford ETO…

Sautee

June 24th, 2009
6:04 pm

Farewell Acie, we hardly knew ye. ;-(

Anakin,

How do you know that this isn’t PRECISELY what Woody wanted?

Sund said Woody would have a voice in the off season maneuverings, didn’t he?

Sautee

June 24th, 2009
6:09 pm

Anyone remember me mentioning a need for JJ insurance?

Not that it IS that. It could be temporary, of course, or never even happen.

But it makes me wonder if JJ has given signs of NOT re-signing.

reedeak

June 24th, 2009
6:14 pm

I believe Pau did go to the playoffs with Memphis

The Truth

June 24th, 2009
6:15 pm

Some of you bloggers amaze me. You don’t miss your water until your well runs dry. All this sudden love and affection for Speedy and Acie are so laughable I am about to fall out of chair. As much as I have been a critic of Mr. Sund, I have to call this the way I see, A GOOD MOVE. He has translated two useless players for a real gamer. If we are going to argue over what position Crawford plays, then take that up with Woody not SUND. Oh yeah, Mr. SUND, NICE JOB, Keep up the good work. Now go get me some quality interor players and I’ll get off your back.

MannyT

June 24th, 2009
6:17 pm

:-D :-D Have some cheese to go with all that whine :-D :-D

I think there are treatments for all that premature hoops frustration some of you have expressed for a deal that is likely at the start of the change up your team period. I wish I had a soundtrack right now to have that whistling song for that smiling guy on the late night commercials pushing the natural/fake ED stuff ;-)

The move makes sense. It gives the Hawks some flexibility and leverage.

You don’t know for sure that Bibby will accept the Hawks offer. Flip’s money counts against the MLE so there are limits to what we can offer. Even if he takes our offer, it cuts into our MLE allotment for this summer.

No we don’t have to take a PG. We can, but we don’t need to do it.

IF Hoopshype salaries are accurate, Crawford will make $9.36 mil next season. You know that Speedy’s 5.2 mil was moving somewhere. AC pulls down 2.2 mil next season. We increase salary about 2 mil for 2 guys that Woody didn’t play much. It also frees up a roster slot. That gives us the opportunity to improve the bench. In the most basic terms, 2guys that don’t play left for one guy that does. Even if the 2nd guys ends up as a min salary guy that never plays, the team has ONE more contributor.

Ariose, no disrespect, but it seems like they run your favorite Hawk out of town every summer. What up with that? You may need to GO ANTI DOC ON TWITTER with your boys Rick & Woody ;-)

BWAF

Cowa

June 24th, 2009
6:19 pm

AJ, I also said you could use the MLE to sign whoever (backup PG and a big?). Let’s say both picks tomorrow night are 3rd string/developmental league material, and not in the rotation. And we want the rotation to be 9 deep. Horford, Smith, Marvin, JJ, Crawford, Mo & Zaza bring us to $58M. RandMo is the 12th man (as I’m thinking they will only use 14 slots and save one for flexibility). That’s 10 slots total, so we have four left. You fill two with guys like Mario and Gardner, of guys of similar use. They will use up just less than $2M, so now you’re at $60M, with the full MLE to use and still put us in the $65-66M range. The bigs available that would take a portion of the MLE are Gooden, Wilcox, Mihm, Swift, Frye and Villanueva. Or there’s always the possibility of another trade. Maybe go after Anthony Parker if you take the cheap route on a big. I just feel that there are ways to make this work.

Do I want Crawford? Not really. I would have actually rather had them go after someone else with those assets. Again, I think Brandon Wright should have been part of the deal, while possibly including Mo from our side. And I would actually rather have Maggette than Crawford, if it weren’t for those extra years of that contract. Or even a 3 way deal with the Clips, getting Camby, and having GS give up Maggette.

Is this the worst deal in the world? Nah. Are there better deals out there? I think so. I’m just trying to make the best of the situation if, in fact, this deal does go down (which Woody still hasn’t signed off on!).

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
6:21 pm

he’s a big Salim stoudamire…..he and Woody will be at odds…..

O'Brien

June 24th, 2009
6:29 pm

Ariose,

“he’s a big Salim…he and Woody will be at odds”.

One difference is he is a vet. And Woody (and JJ) likes vets. Plus who knows if Woody wanted Salim? Maybe Salim was a BK pick.

Cowa

June 24th, 2009
6:29 pm

Just saw that Portland traded up two spots from 24 to 22 to get in front of Sacto at 23 to probably grab Casspi. We could possibly trade Sacto our #19 for their #23 and #31 (first pick in the 2nd round). That would be a great trade if Sund could pull it off, providing the players we covet are off the board when we pick. We could also trade with Portland and get their #22 and #33 or #38. Just a thought…

doc

June 24th, 2009
6:30 pm

well ariose is now happy, acie is free from the bondage.

heh heh

aj, what happens if sund gets a serviceable big in the guys mentioned for a 4/5 look and then pursues jack and sessions and gets one of those in free agency to blend in and take over at point? would you still cry in your spilt milk?

just last night i was talking to sautee saying there arent enough components on this team to trade, only 6 players ours to deal as josh cant be considered tradable this month or next. well that statement was the kiss of death to that idea as it comes to pass the next day and we rid ourselves of the two blights on our roster besides randmo. go figure, guess we are down to 6 players on our tradable roster. anyone want randmo and mo for a big, say nothing for something?

RealSquawk

June 24th, 2009
6:38 pm

Sam,
where do you see that?

Ken Strickland

June 24th, 2009
6:40 pm

BIG RAY-It was interesting to hear you repeat what Sund said about Woodson being included in the decision making process. I remember former GM BKnight uttering those same words about Woodsons involvement, then we passed on CPaul, DWilliams, BRoy etc. In fact, I remember Woodson voicing his concerns about CPaul’s size when questioned about him in an interview. Of course, BK took the flack for passing on them. After the extensive use of veteran PG’s TLue and AJohnson didn’t pan out, and receiving so much flack, do you think BK might have drafted PG ALaw against Woodson’s wishes? Wouldn’t that explain the final rift between Woodson and BK, as well as Woodsons unwillingness to give Acie a far shot?

After BK finally relented and traded for Bibby, the quality veteran PG Woodson had been campaigning for, the team made a successful run for the playoffs. That trade seemed to prove Woodson’s argument that he quality vet PG, which ultimately caused BK to be forced out the door.

Now we have this proposed JCrawford trade, which I have no problem with. However, I don’t see JJ being moved to SF because it would further weaken the rebounding of a frontline that’s already having rebounding troubles. I see Crawford and JJ sharing the PG duties. The fact that Crawford has more size, is a better rebounder, will play some DEF, and can consistently penetrate to the basket, is an improvement over Bibby. As far as the MWilliams debate is concerned, I did a little math. If Marvin took as many shoots as Bibby, JJ or Crawford, and if you included his 3pt shooting, FT’s and higher shooting persentage, his PPG would be higher than all of theirs, while playing fewer mins.

RealSquawk

June 24th, 2009
6:47 pm

yo!! Ken Strickland

yo da man!!

Rod from College Park

June 24th, 2009
6:52 pm

Ken Strickland,

If if was a fifth we’d all be drunk. The fact are he does not take more shots, does not want to take more shots, and does not have the mentality to take more shots. Lets go with the known, rather than the unknown.

Mel on a car phone

June 24th, 2009
6:52 pm

“A source with knowledge of the Hawks situation told ESPN.com, however, that deal is being held up because Atlanta coach Mike Woodson isn’t sold on the trade and because Crawford has an early termination clause in his contract.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4284512

RealSquawk

June 24th, 2009
6:58 pm

Rod from College Park,

The fact is we know there aren’t many plays thrown his way to take those shots. Those facts you stated are pure speculation and opinion.
So lets stick in known and leave the conjectures to the unknown.

terrell barron

June 24th, 2009
7:03 pm

Just read that the deal is being held up because Coach Woodson is not sold on the trade. I guess he’s not sold on getting rid of his whipping boy.

TheHawksFan

June 24th, 2009
7:08 pm

Cap Space my Arse!!! LOL. ANY TEAM that would take Speedy is Stupid. They need to keep Nellie away from the Sauce. Never could understand ANYthing he has EVER done. He flies to Memphis to tell his starting PG he is loved and is the future THEN trades for TWO PGs… well 1. Mr. Sund is ON IT!! Damn!! Lets see free a roster space AND get 20 ppg at a 2 year deal for ummm… Draft night targets D Holiday Wayne E Physco T Damn!! Is this DEAL complete?? Start the Car! Start the Car! LOL. Man. Love YOU ACIE!!! Shackles are OFF!!! How bout TEAM USA!!!!

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
7:10 pm

Newkid,

LMAO… I never seen the younger player being the comparison for the older player…

bigdave

June 24th, 2009
7:10 pm

we making some moves… like the “proactive” approach…
ill wait to weigh in on Mal’ after draft night (we might not be done)…

ill will say this though.. given that we are an iso’ team the boy can create…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oifzy782vn8

Melvin

June 24th, 2009
7:11 pm

My goosh the blog activity has pickup ever since the news broke on the Crawford deal. I can’t keep up…lol

Rod from College Park

June 24th, 2009
7:19 pm

The fact is we know there aren’t many plays thrown his way to take those shots. Those facts you stated are pure speculation and opinion.
So lets stick in known and leave the conjectures to the unknown.

Real Squak

“The fact is we know there aren’t many plays thrown his way to take those shots.”

I wonder why? Maybe because he does not show that he can be a consistent scorer. Give Woodson a little credit. I’m sure if MArvin was scoring at will in practice, he would get more shots.

RealSquawk

June 24th, 2009
7:20 pm

I hope ESPN is wrong because if Woodson has that much power with a year left. then clearly he is running the shots and the ASG are his whooping boys (is that the right expression)

Come on Woody. dont do us like you did with Amare (was it you Woody?)

niremetal

June 24th, 2009
7:21 pm

O’Brien,

Woody doesn’t like all vets. Remember Anthony Johnson? And he was a much more team-oriented guy than Jamal…

Rod,

The guy went for 50 two times this year, and beat the Lakers by himself.

He scored 50 on 26 shots (including 8 3s) and 18 free throws. He’s a streaky shooter – sometimes he’ll be a worldbeater, but most of the time he shoots 8 for 20 and he goes 5 for 20 more often than he scores 40+.

And when did he beat the Lakers by himself? Last time I checked, the Warriors went 0-4 against the Lakers this year. The Knicks never beat the Lakers this year or last year. The last time they did beat the Lakers, 3 years ago, it wasn’t Crawford “by himself.”

For those of you who say he has never been to the playoffs, neither had Pau Gasol.

Uh…the Grizzlies made the playoffs three straight years with Pau Gasol.

RealSquawk,

Yup.

terrell barron

June 24th, 2009
7:22 pm

Two 6′6 guys that can create in the backcourt could be a matchup nightmare. I guess the Hawks took notes from Orlando. Now all we need is Dwight. lol!! However, I’ll settle for his backup..

RealSquawk

June 24th, 2009
7:29 pm

Rod

I am done arguing Marvin and I am onto this Jamal thing my man. And there you go speculating again. Do you think Marvin would play if he shot at will at practice? You know not practicing the sets they are going to put forth in the game.

Let me play your side and speculate. I would think Salim probably shot at will at practice and you see where that got him.

But I am done with that. now Woody is blocking this trade so no i don’t give him credit. what is he gm is he supposed to care about contracts?

terrell barron

June 24th, 2009
7:38 pm

Everbody keeps saying, Bibby is gone, but I think that it’s Marvin who’s definitely a goner. Crawford can play the 1, 2, or the 3, and he can be that other scorer when JJ is off. Bibby is probably outta here too though, after we take a pg at 19. Just sayin. I still expect us to pick up a banger down low. I do know one thing. There’s no way in hell we’ll go through those scoring droughts next year with JJ, Flip, and Crawford on the same team. At least one of the 3, should have it going every single night. I expect a sign and trade for Marvin pretty soon.

terrell barron

June 24th, 2009
7:39 pm

Maybe we’re just going to try to outscore everyone. lol!!

chuckw/deadjournalist

June 24th, 2009
7:49 pm

I’m not sure how I feel about this deal. Not because of what we gave up but what we got. Is it an upgrade? Duh. But what’s the rest of the story?

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
7:49 pm

Ray, if you go back to the February, 2008 blogs, you will find that I was against the Bibby trade. But here’s one huge F’ing difference between the two, Bibby has won. He has experienced pressure-filled playoff situations. And he was coming to a team that was rutterless. Seriously, how is Craford different from Ricky Davis? Again, don’t just focus on the money… focus on the whole thing. We’re talking about a guy who DOES NOT win. How many NBA players could score 20 points on losing teams?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=165

I don’t see this as “we traded Speedy and Acue for Crawford”, I see it as we traded the ability to resign Bibby and Flip for Crawford. Look, we’re spending $25M on Joe and Jamal. Is there a chance that Sund now takes a $2M guard tomorrow AND offers Flip around $3M? A $30M backcourt?

I’d rather have Keyon Dooling as our starting PG for a year and Rashard McCants as a cheaper Flip than Crawford trying to extend his non-playoff streak to 10 seasons with the Hawks.

Blast

June 24th, 2009
7:58 pm

Why would Woody be concerned about Crawford’s ETO? Woody only has one year left on HIS contract. Besides, if Jamal terminates early, then Hawks have more bread to spend in the 2010 free agency bonanza.

reedeak

June 24th, 2009
7:59 pm

I hope Crawford will be in a sign and trade tomorrow with our 19th pick for Chris Bosh. How much more do you think Toronto would want? Al?

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
8:00 pm

And how does the GM watch his team struggle to compete, play hard and with energy during the playoffs and decide that his first proactive move (since Josh and Josh were reactive moves) would be to acquire a perennial lottery participant? Yeah, that really sets the tone for the new era. A non-defender, shot-chucker, lottery-resident. W-T-F?

WOODY, 2 WORDS! VE – TO.

macaroni tony

June 24th, 2009
8:02 pm

I agree if we’re spending that much money on three players, then we want have a deep bench. We spend money on the starters then what (about the bench)? I do like Jamal offense but I didn’t know that you was earning that much. Who are going to trade to get a big that we need. I can not be mad at M Woodson 100%,but we”ll see what happens.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
8:07 pm

Manny, lol it must be a leftie curse or somethin’ heeheehee…..

terrell barron

June 24th, 2009
8:10 pm

I just heard that Sund just thru in #19. Just Kidding. lol!! He better not.

Blast

June 24th, 2009
8:10 pm

I don’t see why Bibby has to be gone really. If he and Hawks can agree on a mutually beneficial contract, Mike would be most welcomed as a Hawk.

What’s up with these politicians, man? Why can’t they keep their damn peckers inside their pants and whip it out only for their old ladies? Imagine disappearing from your job for FOUR days to go on a sexual tryst abroad! In the world where I work, that is considered No Call, No Show and grounds for immediate termination. S.C. gov needs to be fired!

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
8:13 pm

Woody knows players don’t like him and he’s afraid Crawford will bolt. Understandable; maybe woody should work on his attitude/coaching and players won’t wanna leave.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
8:16 pm

I will say that Jamal just absorbed the salaries of two guys who weren’t producing. so whats the difference. if he sucks woody won’t play him either.

niremetal

June 24th, 2009
8:16 pm

Blast,

I don’t think Woody is concerned about his ETO. I think Woody’s reluctance and the ETO were two separate concerns, although it was not a well-structured sentence:

…the deal is being held up because Atlanta coach Mike Woodson isn’t sold on the trade and because Crawford has an early termination clause in his contract.

I’ve mellowed on my opposition to this trade. As long as we’re not done with major re-signings, signings, and/or trades this summer, this is a good first step. I was hoping we could use Speedy’s expiring contract as part of a package for a better (or at least a less selfish) player, but maybe that was a pipe dream…

The back of Rod's mind

June 24th, 2009
8:30 pm

Damn, this Crawford trade has everybody not paying attention to me anymore.
Even Real Squawk won’t argue.

Hmmmmm no Marvin, no Marvin, no Marvin. Hel!, it doesn’t even get ME going like it used to. Crap!

RealSquawk

June 24th, 2009
8:32 pm

Anakin,

What’s a lottery resident? How is the darkside?

You know i got to thinking. Which is never a good thing by the way, but I got to thinking about a player who was consistently on a bad team who averaged a good number of points and then went to a playoff team and played even better.
I decided I would look at recent drafts to help ring a bell when it occurred to me. Flip outside of his short stint in Detroit is a perfect example.Not directly Jamal comparison, but it is a good barometer (if i may) also roger mason, delonte west, Pau isn’t a bad comparison either,

Stating the Obvious

June 24th, 2009
8:33 pm

niremetal,

Don’t even bother, brother. Rod doesn’t bother with little details like watching games or checking to see if what he says has any basis in facts or reality. Rod’s been talking out of his butt for so long that he’s forgotten what it’s like to talk out of the correct hole.

cp

June 24th, 2009
8:34 pm

Woody is holding up the trade? Man wtf? Woodson is so in love with Bibby that he just feels he cant manage to win without him. Tell Woody to shut up and deal with it…

This is a funny blog. You just cant please some people on here. We are paying a guy 2 million more than 2 guys who gave us nothing and people are complaining? When people wanted playing time for Law it was always the Woody lovers who found reasons as to why he should not play and now that we use him to get a productive player its somehow a problem. We get a 20 ppg player for 2 guys who did nothing and its a bad move? I don’t see it but whatever. The summer is not even over with and guys act like this is the final move. Where was all this crying last summer? All I heard was be patient we have time but somehow making a move before the draft is even here means its the end of the world . What does Bibby do better than Crawford? Both are bad defenders. Crawford can at least drive to the rim. And for a chucker he averaged the same amount of dimes as Bibby. Man we have not played one game with the guy, got through the draft, the summer period and guys are ready to give up on the season. You have to be freaking kidding me. And its amazing how all of a sudden Chills is an asset we might lose but it seemed to be okay last year when we added flip and mo and Chills didn’t play one game with us. Wasn’t he a lost asset last season? Some of you guys need to take a nap.

Good Grief

June 24th, 2009
8:36 pm

I personally like trade. However, I’m not to thrilled about the idea of getting Tyler – I don’t care how much he tore it up. If he’s there at 19 fine but I think that they’re going to be a few more guys sitting there at 19 that will be better than Tyler.

I will agree with anyone that will say that the prospects of Marvin not being here next year has gone up in the past few hours. I also think the likelihood that Bibby is here next year just dropped off too. Both Joe & Jamal are good fits at 2 & 3 and could possibly play the 1. If the Hawks do end up taking Ty Lawson I seriously doubt Woody will let him start right away, if ever. Flip will definitely stay unless somebody gives up more dollars than we do. So its down to Bibby or Marvin not being here – Bibby has a choice of being here or not. Marvin could probably bring in a bigger name through trade

Chicken Little

June 24th, 2009
8:37 pm

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

RealSquawk

June 24th, 2009
8:39 pm

rod,

lol o please believe me my defense for marvin will be back starting july 1

niremetal,

glad to see you come around. I am not sure the sentence was worded incorrectly because I don’t think Sund has a problem with having the money off the books. That would be an ideal situation for him to opt out the same year Joe does. More money for the ASG. And I will also publicly state if this move is coupled with some very nice off season (marvin, flip or bibby, zaza or gortat, josh and/or anderson/ charlie v) acquisitions then I am all for it.

Blast,
when saying why should woody be worried about someone who is under contract longer than him. I laughed hysterically.

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
8:44 pm

With Crawford and Joe on board, who do we choose tomorrow? Seemingly, another combo guard wouldn’t make much sense.

niremetal

June 24th, 2009
8:47 pm

RealSquawk,

None of the players you mentioned are remotely as selfish and unwilling to play defense as Crawford. Nor do any of them have such an absurd record of losing.

Pau Gasol is a horrible, horrible comparison. He was the centerpiece of a team that made the playoffs 3 straight years. And back then, the closest thing he had to a sidekick was Mike Miller. Jamal Crawford has done worse while surrounded by players who were no worse than what Pau was surrounded with. But Pau’s teams peaked at 50 wins. Jamal hasn’t even sniffed 35 in his career. He also plays at a far easier-to-fill position than Gasol does.

Crawford is a loser. I don’t mean that in the usual pejorative sense – I mean it in a literal sense. Crawford has played on one winning team since he left high school – and that was in his one year of college. And that year, Michigan went 15-14 (but only 6-10 in conference). Since that, it’s been all downhill. That was his post-high school peak. In college. Ten years ago. All he has done in the past decade is lose.

(And btw, in case you were curious, he shot 41% from the field that one year in college. I’ll say this much – the man’s consistent…)

If we’re bringing him here to be Flip, that’s cool. But if we’re bringing him here to play a co-lead role, that makes me nauseous.

Blast

June 24th, 2009
8:50 pm

Nire,

I mean, just the fact that Sund is being proative this year rather than reactive is a good sign for me. At least he is trying to do something good. If this trade goes through, I think it will be a coup. Feather in your cap, so to speak. We basically gave up zero points for twenty easy. We get this guy, those 3-5 minutes where Hawks can’t buy a bucket because Joe is trying to get a rest might be a thing of the past.

And for all those saying Crawford has only played in lottery teams, I agree. But those teams were bottom fodder for a reason. How about we see how he performs on a playoff team?

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
8:51 pm

RealSquawk, most of the guys you mentioned made a fraction of Crawford’s salary. The combined salaries of Delonte, Mason (pre Spurs) and Flip probably don’t combine to $10M. And Pau had some success during Hubie’s run with the Grizzlies.

Dude is an outstanding free throw shooter. There, I said something positive.

KevinA

June 24th, 2009
8:53 pm

With the addition of Chills we do not need Bibby or Flip. Trade our picks for future picks. Crawford is ok but you will see Chills running pg at the end of games. Marvin is a must. I would still like to see Solo get minutes to see if we really need another big. A drew Gooden type can be had for a couple million.

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
8:56 pm

nire, why would we pay him $10M to be Flip? Did Flip insist on $11M and we are better off with Crawford? Do we think that Crawford will give us twice the contribution of Flip at $5M?

Let’s say that the arguement is that between Flip and Bibby, we would have spent around $12M and that with Crawford and #19, we’re still at $12M. But would you rather have 80%+ of that $12M tied to the combo guard off the bench? I wouldn’t.

Woody, remember the immortal words of Nancy Reagan.

Cowa

June 24th, 2009
8:58 pm

I’m very confused by a lot of folks saying this trade means it’s likely that Marvin will not be back. Did the league Salary Cap change when this trade was proposed? Remember, there are only a few teams (Memphis, OKC, Portland, Detroit) that are under the Salary Cap, and therefore they’re the only ones who can offer Marvin more than the MLE (starting at $5.6M). Out of those four teams, which one would go after Marvin? Memphis has Gay at SF. OKC has Durant/Green. Portland has Webster/Outlaw/Batum, and they’re not enough under the cap to really make an offer as big as we could. That leaves Detroit, who could, but I’m reading that they want Gordon/Boozer and back-ups with their cap room and want to keep Prince. Our tender of $7.4M (which we will throw out there) is much more than he can make elsewhere! And worst case, he signs the tender for one year and he goes unrestricted in 2010, but we can still sign him then as well (the Ben Gordon route).

Also remember that at the SF position, Odom, Marion, Artest, Turkoglu and Ariza are unrestricted FA’s who are easier to obtain. RFA’s normally don’t move.

I don’t see Marvin going anywhere next year.

KevinA

June 24th, 2009
8:59 pm

No matter what happens JJ will still demand the ball and Woody will make it happen. I am afraid we are still be stuck with a back court that will be jacking up to many jumpers. Josh and Al are ready to contribute with more touches. It will be fun to see what happens.

RealSquawk

June 24th, 2009
9:00 pm

niremetal,

hey i never said i wanted him to be the co star thats why i compared him to flip first. They go in descending order the comparisons so of course I would put Pau last. And I don’t know Jamal’s history all that well, but was he ever the Pau guy on his team? was he ever the leader or just the dynamic scorer?

Alright then what about Tracy McGrady LOL!!! He was a loser got to the playoffs what one year,(scorer, no defense, ball hog right?) but he is probably still a loser. so maybe not. Anyway all I am saying is the guy can score, he can play defense better than Bibby just because. and he is coming to a “winning team.”

Are you saying he is going to cause us to loose. Cause I will give Joe and maybe Josh and maybe Woodson credit. They aren’t going to just let him bring this team down. the team has been together too long for some player to come in and simply cause us to loose more games. He is an improvement of the players that we are getting for him. And even if he was Rick Davis, he is exactly what the over used ever reliant to score JOe Johnson needed. A ball hog that looks for his shot and takes his shot. thats why I liked flip and thats why I like Jamal (for the team for this situation).

Give the Hawks and I guess Woodson credited no matter what happened in the offseason the wins keep increasing.

Nancy Reagan

June 24th, 2009
9:01 pm

Just say no to DRUGS. What’s this Anakin guy saying?

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
9:12 pm

That right, Mrs. Reagan. And “no” to trips to Argentina on Father’s Day weekend when your sons are wondering “where’s Daddy”. But I digress.

Blast

June 24th, 2009
9:14 pm

Some folks say Marvin does not look for his shot more often. Some folks say Flip and Crawford are ball hoggers and ball chuckers. It’s really simple. The chuckers feel they are the MAN. They want to hog the ball cause they feel they can make the shot! They have ice water in their veins and are ready to take the credit and the blame if they miss. Most times, they deliver. Marvin williams is not just that kind of player.

Cowa

June 24th, 2009
9:15 pm

Dark AJ, remember, signing Flip cuts into the Hawks FA budget as part of the MLE. Crawford doesn’t. Every dollar that it would have taken to sign Flip is one less dollar they could use out of the $5.6M they have at their disposal to sign FA’s. IMO, that’s the best part of the deal. We can still sign Bibby, but he doesn’t count against that $5.6M.

Sautee

June 24th, 2009
9:17 pm

KevinA,

You said this: “I am afraid we are still be stuck with a back court that will be jacking up to many jumpers. Josh and Al are ready to contribute with more touches. It will be fun to see what happens.”

Let’s HOPE that it’s fun to watch. Look folks, no matter what, we are going to see a different team next year than this year. And even if we had remained totally status quo, we’d be a different team. Here’s why:

I agree Kevin, the frontline players are MORE than ready to contribute A LOT more than they did last year.

Will Joe (and Crawford, AND whomever else is in the backcourt) realize this, and facilitate more touches for the bigs?

Will Woody design something to take advantage of his young stars?

If NOT, be ready for chemistry problems. Big ones.

We have thrown our lot (at least for now) with Smith and Horford at the 4 and 5.

We MUST let Horford and Smith grow if we want to keep improving. Otherwise, blow it up and start again. Used properly, they are a mismatch for the opposition every night. Hint: speed

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
9:17 pm

If you add up all of Speedy’s playoff appearances as a Hawk and compare it to Crawford’s playoff appearances in his 9-year career, guess who wins?

Don Nelson

June 24th, 2009
9:19 pm

Speedy Claxton is our PG of the future! The future is NOW, Warriors fans!!!

Sautee

June 24th, 2009
9:20 pm

“But I digress.”

LOL, I thought it was Astro who usually digressed! ;-)

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
9:22 pm

Sautee, leave me alone, I’m on a 4 hour rant. :)

Mel on a car phone

June 24th, 2009
9:22 pm

Contra Costa Times says that the Speedy/Law for Crawford trade can’t be officially announced until July 1.

http://www.ibabuzz.com/warriors/2009/06/24/speedy-law-not-the-answer/

bigdave

June 24th, 2009
9:23 pm

no substitute for Hawks basketball… but the Braves V Yankees game is making for good tv…

has that 90’s feel about it…

I HATE THE STANKIN YANKEES!!

RealSquawk

June 24th, 2009
9:26 pm

I will not defend Marvin until July 1st, I will not defend Marvin until July 1st, I will not defend Marvin until July 1st!

Cowa,

Thanks for putting that out there cause I was getting a little worried.

I said earlier this was the biggest offseason for us and it is and this is a great **START**

Sautee

June 24th, 2009
9:32 pm

AJ,

Man I can PROMISE you that the sun WILL come up in the morning. But you may not be able to hear that just yet.

Blast

June 24th, 2009
9:33 pm

Conversation between Woody and Sund about the proposed Jamal Crawford trade.

Sund: I thought we were clear about this, Mike. Why am I reading online all of a sudden that you have problems with this trade?

Mike Woodson: I know I agreed in principle, Rick, but when I thought about it some more, I realized this cat could pull his ETO!

Sund: Any why is that a concern of yours?

Mike Woodson: But where would that leave the Hawks if he pulled out? He is a valuable asset!

Sund: You still haven’t answered my question, Mike. Why is that your concern? You only have a one year contract. You’ve always bitched about needing more scoring, bitched about needing more guard vets. In one scoop I am providing that for you. You have one year to make it work. You didn’t like Acie, and now he’s gone. What is your problem, Mike?

Mike Woodson: My daughter had a crush on Acie and I couldn’t stand it, or him. That’s why I didn’t like or play him. Aah, can Crawford play defence?

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
9:40 pm

Sautee, a few years ago, there was a player in the league whom I truly despised. Dude was bug but Pillsbury Doughboy soft. Shot 3-balls all the time. And did this annoying shake when he made a stupid lay-up. He was everything that I don’t like in a player. And one day, my favorite team acquired him in a trade.

I made it through the Antoine Walker debacle and I can make it through this.

Blast

June 24th, 2009
9:41 pm

Didn’t know Crawford’s son and mom lived in the ATL.

RealSquawk

June 24th, 2009
9:47 pm

Blast,

where did you get the dialogue man. your sources must be sick!

ant banks

June 24th, 2009
9:53 pm

does the addition of jamal crawford make us an appreciably better team? we play orlando, miami, washington, and charlotte 4 times each. we probably play clev, boston, indy, chicago twice. how will we fair against these teams? not to mention the powerhouse from the west.

i am cautiously optimistic. we are goin’ to need more than jamal crawford, though

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
10:11 pm

we’re briniging everybody back+the draftees…..

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
10:16 pm

We still need to Draft Danny Green(SF) in the 2nd….remember Lebron? yeah he abused us this postseason with marvin out. Trade Mo and Randolph for somebody….we can still sign Geral Green also for 800k

kwooden1

June 24th, 2009
10:22 pm

This trade is a steal!!! No question about it. Crawford is a volume shooter and plays little defense, I understand that. But Speedy never PLAYED!!! PERIOD! Acie ??? Nothing more to say! Ask WOODY!

The HAWKS can still sign Bibby to about 15M over two years and then draft the best available PG and the biggest body they can find in the 2nd round. I’m still confident that Zaza is gone, so that means they have to give Solo a raise. They let Flip walk and use the MLE to find another service able PF/C. Crawford coming off the bench is Flip+2.

GO HAWKS!!

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
10:25 pm

Astro Joe,

Look, are we really going to go with the “he’s not a winner” argument?

First, we are not guaranteed NOT to sign Bibby. Second, this guy played on weak Chicago teams, Isaiah Thomas-led NY Knicks teams (turmoil city), and then he played for the defense and chemistry-challenged Warriors. Last I looked, guys didn’t win by themselves, and we didn’t pick him up to lead us to the promised land. He is a veteran scorer who can create his own shot. We dumped two guys we had no use for (and this is where I REALLY don’t understand your reactions), and got something useful in return.

You don’t trade two “nobodies” for a savior. It just doesn’t happen. I think it’s your expectations that have you mentally hamstrung. Again, I’d probably be right there next to you if this was the only move of the offseason. But it’s the first move. And it wasn’t a bad one. Unless of course you think Acie and Speedy were the keys to an NBA championship for the Hawks. Here’s a hint: Bibby and Flip aren’t either, and I’m betting we still re-sign one of them.

What makes a player a winner? Being on a winning team? What if your team wins one year and not the next, are you then a part-time winner, or a part-time loser?

Mike Bibby has experienced a lot, and I know that. But what did he win, besides a championship in college (which is quickly forgotten when you can’t do it in the NBA)? He’s won in some big playoff games, but in the end, he lost. Did we bring in a loser in Zaza? How about Flip? Mo Evans? JJ won a lot in Phoenix, but like Bibby, he couldn’t win the big one.

Crawford is a piece, a component. Something to help augment your true building blocks. Go looking for “winners” in free agency, and you’ll come back discouraged.

What has Kirk Hinrich won, that you are so willing to pay him as much as Crawford is going to make, only over more years? Just saying. Don’t hang it all on one definition that’s not even a universally shared opinion.

The Truth

June 24th, 2009
10:31 pm

Woody is probably concern about the early termination clause in Crawford contract because that restricts him from being a boneheaded coach toward Crawford. He most be on his best behavior or Crawford is out of here.

O'Brien

June 24th, 2009
10:31 pm

If the Hawks acquire Crawford, can he be traded again this offseason?

Anyway, I have some concerns about this trade, but as Ray mentioned, the offseason is not over. We still have the draft and free agency, so who knows what the team will look like, or what Woody’s plan will be.

I will say, that if Woody is holding up the deal, then Rick Sund must really value his input after all…

Sekou Smith

June 24th, 2009
10:32 pm

Why anyone thinks this is a bad deal from the Hawks’ perspective is beyond me. And I’ve seen all back and forth here, on the other AJC blogs and elsewhere. It’s craziness.

The deal isn’t being held up by anyone or anything. It’ll be announced when it’s finalized and that won’t be until it gets rubber stamped across the board by the league. It’s not a draft-related deal, which makes it a bit easier to wrap your arms around.

But it’s not some complicated thing. The Hawks get a big-time scorer and player in Crawford that eases the pressure on several fronts (the point guard, whoever it ends up being, Joe Johnson, the backcourt rotation, among other things) in exchange for two guys that might not have been in the rotation next year. What’s the problem there?

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
10:32 pm

Blast,

Funny conversation.

On a more serious note, I fail to understand why Crawford is getting hammered so hard by some people for a lack of defense. Surely a good coach like Woody can inspire and convince him to play better defense, yes?

Uh, there is that little matter of it not working with Bibby. I think Crawford can be better on defense than he has shown. I think he would be happy to come to a team that had a winning season (even if it’s the first one in many years), rather than play for a coach that doesn’t want him, and is more interested in restructuring the franchise’s front office than in getting the maximum out of his players.

As for Woody nixing or holding up the deal, I’m not going to believe one bit of that. Sund will pull rank, whether Woody likes it or not. His job is to get the most out of the guys he has on the floor. If this deal still goes through, he gets a veteran combo guard with decent size, who can create his own shot and is more potent than Flip.

We still may yet sign Bibby (if he REALLY wants to be here, and the money talk isn’t too far apart), which should make both Woody and his entourgage happy.

Make the best of it, Woody. That’s your job.

Big Ray

June 24th, 2009
10:44 pm

O’brien,

I thought the same thing (Crawford could be moved again this very offseason, or during the season). While this is a possibility (and I don’t know how long you have to wait to do another trade with the same player), as I think about it more and more, I don’t see it happening. But I could be wrong. More likely he gets moved during the season, by the trade deadline, if he gets moved at all.

Sekou,

I agree. This is NOT a bad move. Some were against the Bibby trade, but it turned out fine, and now they are about to slit their wrists because they think THIS trade (which ain’t a whole lot different in many ways) will keep us from retaining him. Gee, did anybody really know what good benefits Mike Bibby would bring? Precisely, so no need to fly off the handle at this trade.

Don’t know why this has to be repeated, but for the upteenth time already, we get a proven scorer for two spare parts we weren’t going to use. Pardon me if I don’t shed tears over that (and I was an Acie Law advocate).

As for Woody, he should have no complaints. Well, that’s about like saying all bloggers should agree on something, but you know how that goes…

Blast

June 24th, 2009
10:53 pm

RealSquawk,

That conversation was all made up in my mind, dude. Was just trying to figure out why Woody might be opposed to that trade, and if he has any imput on things at all.

I do think Crawford might be more inspired to play better defence if he came to a winning team with a mission. Doing that will only enhance his overall value in the league. With the kind of defence Hawks play, I think they can make it work.

O'Brien

June 24th, 2009
10:54 pm

Everyone talks about Crawford’s lack of defense, but is he any worse than Bibby?

And we still dont know how Woody will use him. What if he comes off the bench (plays Point sometimes, relieves JJ sometimes), then how is that a bad move?

And he gives the Hawks a valuable asset that they can use or trade as they see fit. Maybe they can trade him for a big, depending on what happens in Free Agency, or he can be our scorer off the bench.

I do think that means Flip is gone though. Sign a PG (Jack), resign Zaza, and use our mid-level on a big. And draft a PG at #19.

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
10:58 pm

Let’s see what happens next. I think we’re screwed by this move. Just like Sund made it a point to say that allowing Chill to walk allowed him to bring in Flip and Mo, I think this move will result in a paper-thin bench. If we are watching Sund talk up the acquisitions of Robert Swift, Stromile Swift and Marcus Williams, well…

And Sund really needs to get a defender for this backcourt. Someone capable of defending from the first game of the season. And y’all can discount Bibby’s 3:1 assist-to-turnover ratio, but if we can’t rebound AND increase our turnovers, then I don’t know how we can win while reducing our offensive possessions.

But dude is a great free throw shooter.

kwooden1

June 24th, 2009
11:02 pm

Again Crawford coming off the bench should be the intent in making this trade. Bibby still needs to be signed and we need to pickup the best PG available in the draft. I’m sorry but I’m still convinced that Zaza is gone, which I don’t like but needs to happen. Solo needs more playing time, because he can rebound well, but also brings the shot-blocking that Zaza doesn’t have. With this trade, the HAWKS can let Flip walk and use their full MLE to get someone like McDyess, Bass, Hollins or even Joe Smith. If some team offers Marvin 10M+, I have no problem letting him walk. (even though I want to keep him) The team played well with Evans starting and this gives the team flexibility in working with Horford next year.

This is the way I see things
Starters: Same (sign Bibby, keep Marvin on the qualifying offer)

Bench:

PG – Lawson/Maynor/Douglas
SG – Crawford
SF – Evans
PF – McDyess/Bass/Hollins/Smith/etc
C – Solo

GO HAWKS!!

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
11:03 pm

I thought that point was to improve our perimeter defense, not replicate it for another two years. I guess I got that confused. Saying that Crawford’s defense isn’t any worse than Bibby (who is a far better shooter, a more effective distributor and a clutch player in meaningful games) doesn’t make me feel any better about this. At $10M per season, I wouldn’t want either one of them back.

O'Brien

June 24th, 2009
11:07 pm

AJ,

I am okay with Crawford’s defense (assuming he is coming off the bench).

And I do have some reservations about this trade. But the problem is we dont know what options were available, and we dont know what will happen in free agency.

We’ll just have to wait and see what the team looks like going into training camp.

niremetal

June 24th, 2009
11:09 pm

Dammit, the blog ate my long, thoughtful post.

Try again:

I neglected to mention one thing about those Pau Gasol Grizzlies of the mid-2000s – they had Shane Battier. They won 45-50 games in 3 straight years with Battier. Then Battier left for Houston, and they fell immediately to the bottom of the lottery…and the Rockets made an immediate 18-game leap to join the West elite.

And for all the talk of “well Bibby can’t play defense either,” Bibby’s teams always seem to do better in reality than they look on paper. The Kings went from “very good” to “title contenders” (hell, they woulda won in 2002 if not for Horry’s miracle and the worst-reffed game in NBA history) and stayed contenders longer than they should have considering their aging and often-injured roster. He virtually willed the team to one last playoff berth in 2006 when they were basically in the midst of rebuilding. And of course, he was the difference in getting the Hawks to the playoffs last year despite being injured. And this year, we did 10-15 games better than the “experts” predicted when he was back at full strength.

Bibby is down the spectrum from Battier, but Crawford is at the opposite end. If NBA teams were rated like Schwab rates stocks, Battier’s teams would always be “Overperform,” Bibby’s would usually be “Overperform” and never worse than “Market Perform,” and Crawford’s have always been “Market Perform” or “Underperform.”

We don’t know if Crawford knows how to be a complementary player. We don’t know if he’ll be ok with playing the role of SuperFlip. And we don’t know if he’s the type of guy who can play for a winner, because he hasn’t played for a winner since he left high school.

I’m not saying it’s definitely bad. I’m just saying it’s a big roll of the dice.

darrell starks

June 24th, 2009
11:17 pm

I am a big acie law fan but sometime you have to make move in order to get better crawford would be and up grade at the point.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

darrell starks

June 24th, 2009
11:22 pm

jamal make 10mill thats 5mill less than bibby smart move by asg if deal go thru.
GO HAWKS!!!!!

Anakin Joe

June 24th, 2009
11:23 pm

I guess the other way to spin this is that the ASG is now feeling good about having a bench with a former lottery pick and a $10M/year player. And that is good news, truly. Especially if they maintain a quality starting unit.

Speaking of a $10M bench player, how much would Childress get relative to Crawford as a bench player? Is Chill half the player ($5M)? 80% ($8M)? I assume Sund thinks something closer to 60-65% the player that Craford is. Wow!

darrell starks

June 24th, 2009
11:28 pm

If we make this trade we have to keep marvin to balance it out.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

doc

June 24th, 2009
11:30 pm

aj,i heard after they were turned down by portland for roy, chicago for rose and miami for the chosen one, they offered the same deal for kidd, nash and parker but for some reason were turned down. does that make you feel better? someone just took out your garbage and left you a pizza and beer in return along with popcorn for the movie at home with the kids and some ben and jerry’s on the side before you go to bed and you go anakin because it wasnt a dinner at bones in a limo. man, no wonder you dont like josh, he is as petulant as you are. finally, see the projected self, like living with yourself. also, yeah, it is only one meal but it was your garbage and is better than a happy meal.

it is a relief, because we can finally put to rest the acie story unless he turns into the next coming of parker. then you can beatch about your coach like the rest of us, until then you dont have to defend the man woody.

darrell starks

June 24th, 2009
11:31 pm

If some how if we can bring back chill wow i can see this team doing something.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!

O'Brien

June 24th, 2009
11:35 pm

I heard Portland is trying to get Hinrich to play alongside Roy. That would be a very good backcourt right there.

darrell starks

June 24th, 2009
11:35 pm

2009 ATLANTA HAWKS
STARTER JAMAL, JOE, MARVIN, JOSH, HORFORD
BENCH FLIP, MOE, CHILL, CHARLIE V, ZAZA,
19PICK TYLAWSON, SOLO
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

doc

June 24th, 2009
11:56 pm

darrell nice try only your team would cost about 75 mil at least in a quick projection.

Ariose

June 24th, 2009
11:59 pm

So it comes Down to Jeff Teauge & Wayne Ellington….

Najeh Davenpoop

June 25th, 2009
12:05 am

I’m a little late to the Jamal Crawford party here, but…

“The Hawks get a big-time scorer and player in Crawford that eases the pressure on several fronts (the point guard, whoever it ends up being, Joe Johnson, the backcourt rotation, among other things) in exchange for two guys that might not have been in the rotation next year. What’s the problem there?”

The problem is salary. Plain and simple. You’re right, the trade itself is great — you give up a talented but underused PG who wasn’t going to succeed here under the current coaching staff and an expiring contract and get a guy who has scored 50 in a game. Of course that’s a great trade by itself. My initial reaction when I heard of the trade was excitement.

But as a fan base, we have come to collectively dislike and distrust the DASG. And based on the salary commitment necessary to keep the current team together while adding Crawford for the next two seasons, the huge worry I have here is that Sund has acquired Crawford as a replacement for Bibby, instead of as a replacement for Flip. If Crawford is going to be the Hawks’ 6th man and Bibby is going to return as the starter, this is a fantastic trade. If Crawford is going to be the starting point guard next season and the only true point on the team is going to be Jeff Teague or Ty Lawson, this trade is not so great.

I will say this — if the DASG approves re-signing Bibby to a market value salary in addition to adding Crawford and keeping the rest of the core together, my opinion of them would skyrocket. I might even have to drop the “D” from “DASG”.

Mel on a car phone

June 25th, 2009
12:18 am

“Sources close to the process told ESPN.com on Wednesday that the deal is likely to be made official in the next day or two, with Crawford expected to sign a document stating that he will not opt out of the final two seasons of his contract, which he has the right to do until June 30.

A player who has the ability to opt out of his contract cannot be traded until July 1 — when the next calendar year in the NBA begins — unless such an amendment stating Crawford won’t opt out is signed.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4284512

Najeh Davenpoop

June 25th, 2009
12:19 am

“So it comes Down to Jeff Teauge & Wayne Ellington….”

I don’t think the Hawks are going to look to add Ellington when he would be 3rd on the depth chart at SG. I’m guessing they will probably go after whoever they feel is the most NBA-ready point guard available. I personally like Eric Maynor better than Jeff Teague just from what I’ve seen, but I’ll admit I haven’t seen a whole lot…

darrell starks

June 25th, 2009
12:24 am

DOC im a step ahead of you jamal 10m, joe 15m, marvin 7m, josh 10m, horford 4m, flip 3m, moe 3m, chill 7m, charlie v 7m, zaz 6m, ty lawson 2m, solo 1m, your right thats 76mill.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

Najeh Davenpoop

June 25th, 2009
12:28 am

As for Acie Law, I am disappointed it couldn’t work for him in Atlanta, but I still think he has a solid NBA career ahead of him.

By the way, ESPN is saying the long-rumored Shaq-to-Cavs-for-expiring-trash trade is 90% completed.

Mel on a car phone

June 25th, 2009
12:29 am

Seems like the only reason to draft Ellington would be if Marvin’s on his way out. I think the Hawks will go with BJ Mullens if he’s there. Otherwise, a PG. That’s just my guess though. I don’t have any inside info.

RealSquawk

June 25th, 2009
12:31 am

Blast,

come on man I was being sarcastic.

darrell starks

June 25th, 2009
12:42 am

76MILL that would make us maybe 12 in league salary wise not bad plus this team will be able to compete with the elite.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!

Ed

June 25th, 2009
1:02 am

I read earlier tonight that Woody is the one holding this deal up. There was no reason given as to why though. If that’s correct I am most curious as to Woody’s reason…

jhan

June 25th, 2009
1:08 am

O’brien – I think your plan is very likely to happen. Wonder what big we could get with the mid-level?

cp

June 25th, 2009
1:18 am

People are acting like we just traded for Isiah Rider. The guy we have only makes 2 million more than the 2 guys we got rid of. One never played and the other one barely played. So I guess people would be fine with 8 million rotting away on the bench. One getting yanked after one mistake and one sitting in a suit. In our offense Joe is pretty much the pg anyway. He is the one who usually brings the ball up and etc. I have no problem with this move at all. People call Crawford a chucker but look at his fga and look at Joe’s. Hell Joe takes his fair of bad shots too. I wish we would have had a guy like Crawford last year in the playoffs. Most of the guys on our team seemed to have forgot we were in the playoffs and didn’t show up. Draft Teague, bring back Pachulia, snag Danny Green in the second round, sign a guy like Gerald Green, with Marvin back I don’t see how we all of a sudden cant make the playoffs. We added Flip and Mo and made the playoffs last year when nobody thought we could. We make one move before we even make a draft pick and people are already putting us in the lottery next year. Unbelievable.

darrell starks

June 25th, 2009
1:27 am

CP if the hawks make this move this will be there best move since taking over.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

darrell starks

June 25th, 2009
1:31 am

But asg have to bring back marvin now in order to balance the team out and they must sign flip zaza and hoping with my finger cross we bring back chill.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!

Ed

June 25th, 2009
1:49 am

Niremetal…pejorative. I had to google that one. Guess you’re just showing off your chops:-) Anyway, I think for certain Crawford is not being brought in to play the Flip role. I agree w/ you that’s unfortunate as it shows this team truly has no identity. Hopefully Woody is holding up the deal because he wants a defensive minded team

darrell starks

June 25th, 2009
1:49 am

Will ty lawson be there at pick 19? i hope so
GO HAWKS!!!!

darrell starks

June 25th, 2009
1:51 am

Please no jeff teague.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

Ariose

June 25th, 2009
1:56 am

Flip was our backup PG. He Will be back.

Projected bench: Flip, Crawford,Danny Green, Mo Evans, Gerald Green, Zaza, Solo, Patrick Mills(or A.J Price, or Lawson, or Jerrels, or Teauge), Brandon Bass and Randolph…..

Najeh Davenpoop

June 25th, 2009
1:57 am

I wonder if this guy is a commenter on this blog?

Ariose

June 25th, 2009
1:58 am

Starks, i’m Actually hoping both are gone so we select Patrick Mills; kid is a proven beast…

J-MAN

June 25th, 2009
2:53 am

We need some Bigs still come on Tyson Chandler

Sekou Smith

June 25th, 2009
3:03 am

NEW BLOG UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ed

June 25th, 2009
3:07 am

I’m with you Darrell, Ty Lawson would be a terrific pick for the Hawks if he’s available.

Jim Burn is Roaming

June 25th, 2009
11:01 am

E.S.P.N. has the Hawks taking Brandon Jennings at 19. This will be Acie Law all over again. Don’t do it Hawks fans.