Psycho-T brings the pain
Tyler Hansbrough didn't leave anything on the floor after his workout with the Hawks Sunday morning at Philips Arena. The rugged North Carolina forward is a a player to keep an eye on this week with the Hawks drafting 19th in Thursday's NBA draft.
HAWKSVILLE - The reviews were unanimous.
On 10-point scale, Tyler Hansbrough’s Sunday morning workout for the Hawks at Philips Arena ranks at the very top of anything conducted in the past five days.
It wasn’t any one thing in particular that had the Hawks’ coaches buzzing. It was everything. Hansbrough’s energy, effort and obviously better-than-advertised shooting and athleticism caught more than a few folks in attendance by surprise.
“He kicked the meter up. It was off the Richter Scale,” said Hawks assistant coach Larry Drew, who ran the team’s workouts all week. “That was one of those 8.0s, one of those quick, hard earthquakes. Because his energy is at another level. You just don’t see many players capable of playing with that type of energy and effort and can sustain it through a game, or even a workout. He plays at a totally different level than some of these young guys out here.”
I felt like I needed an ice bath after watching his 90-minute workout. But Hansbrough proved a theory that a wise Eastern Conference executive reiterated to me Sunday night, “effort is a skill in the NBA.” And Hansbrough has it in reserve.
Alade Aminu (Stephenson High and Georgia Tech) and Shawn Taggart (Memphis) were the other bigs on hand Sunday. And they were also impressive in the individual drills and two-on-two work that was done. But Hansbrough’s refusal to go at anything but full bore during the entire workout had everyone buzzing afterwards.
Love him or hate him, and Hansbrough laughed about the fact that he’s inspired the masses to do either one or the other and sometimes both, he’s going to do it his way. And the truth is the Hawks could do a lot worse with the 19th pick. But they probably won’t have to worry about Hansbrough there, as I haven’t spoken to anyone anywhere that believes he’ll still be on the board when the Hawks are on the clock Thursday night.
“If this kid is still there at 19, the Hawks better not hesitate,” another Eastern Conference executive told me Sunday afternoon. “The kid’s a dream for coaches in our league, because he’s going to come in and crank things up automatically. He’s just wired differently than most of these other guys.”
That’s the real problem with a pick that late. You can project who you think might be there and evaluate accordingly, but there’s no way of knowing who will be around by then on draft night. One glitch on the draft board in the early lottery can swing the draft in a totally different direction than projected.
The Hawks sent things sideways in 2004 when they took Josh Childress ahead of Luol Deng and Andre Iguodala – defying most mock drafts that had those other two guys going ahead of Childress.
And anytime one player rises and is picked ahead of projection, someone else falls and lands in the lap of an unsuspecting team like the Hawks (who have no doubt done their due diligence throughout this process by examining all the possibilities).
DaJuan Summers is my sleeper pick for the draft. Too bad he didn't get a chance to workout for the Hawks while he was in town last week (a sprained ankle sidelined him).
Check any mock draft you want and go over the list of names where the Hawks are picking and there are either guys you draft on potential (Wake Forest’s Jeff Teague, who acquitted himself well in his workout Saturday, or Ohio State’s BJ Mullens, who did the same a day earlier) or seasoned college guys that will be needle pushers as rookies (guys like Hansbrough, Pitt’s Sam Young, Louisville’s Terrence Williams and Georgetown’s DaJuan Summers, all of whom the Hawks have had face time with throughout the process).
The usual anxiety surrounding the Hawks at draft time doesn’t really seem necessary this year, at least the way I see it. The Hawks’ heavy lifting is going to come in free agency – and that’s where Hansbrough and all the bigger guys on the short list I’ve detailed above come in handy. Follow me now. When the Hawks lost Josh Childress to Greece last summer, they didn’t have a ready replacement for a 6-8 guy with his skills and seasoning, mostly because they didn’t have a draft pick to use on a player of that ilk. Say, for the sake of my theory, that the Hawks are unable to keep all their free agents. Don’t you think another cat with size and versatility might come in handy next season, even if he’s just a situational rotation player as a rookie?
While I didn’t agree with the notion that drafting 6-8 to 6-9 players ever year now matter what would lead a team from 13-win seasons to the playoffs, I can see the wisdom in taking players that fit that mold if you’re in the best-player-available mode on draft night and picking outside of the lottery. It’s just wise to have your roster well-stocked with a couple Trevor Ariza/Mickael Pietrus/Linas Kleiza types. I think the entire league realizes that now after the playoffs.
FROM THE DO YOUR HOMEWORK FILES …
A quick aside from the Hawks-themed portion of the program requires us to look across the pond fro a moment.
Flooding Europe with scouts from every NBA team has finally caught up to the league and to the crop of talent. The Euro harvest is expected to be extremely thin Thursday night.
Jonathan Abrams of the New York Times had a staggering statistic in his story about the sudden change in philosophy regarding drafting European (and really international) prospects:
“Teams appear to be straying from the recent trend of drafting overseas players because many of them have not lived up to expectations. Of the 39 international players selected in the first round since 2002 with no prior experience playing in the United States, only Yao Ming has surfaced as an All-Star. In that same time, 14 of 171 American players drafted in the first round made at least one All-Star team.”
Math was never my best subject in school, but I know crazy numbers when I see them. And that’s craziness.
OTHER LASTING IMPRESSIONS WERE MADE DURING WORKOUT WEEK, including a stellar showing by a guy not getting any first round buzz. Keep LSU combo guard Garrett Temple in mind in the second round. He’s going to make someone a nice player wherever he is drafted (provided he is drafted, and if not, he’ll be a good free agent pick up for some team). I remember watching him shut J.J. Redick down at the Georgia Dome during LSU’s run to the Final Four a few years back. He’s got NBA height for his position but his frame is need of some bulk to stand up the type of pounding he could endure at the pro level. But he’s got every tool you want in a player and he’ll compete with anyone.
Another guy the Hawks had in that made an impression me was Lester Hudson, a 6-3, 200-pound bull from Tennessee-Martin that refused to let anyone slow him down in his workout. He’s the kind of feisty guard that NBA teams love to have coming off their bench to wreak havoc on opposing defenses and to harass opposing point guards. And you talk about a guy breaking down walls to reach his goals, tell me Hudson hasn’t done exactly that after reading this from my man Chris Low from ESPN.com.
Fearless seems like an appropriate description of Lester Hudson's game.
Jonesboro’s Toney Douglas (Florida State) was by far the most tenacious defender in attendance all week. He didn’t miss an opportunity to mix it up in the drills I watched. I can see why folks have been gushing about him as a potential, Ben Gordon-like combo guard. But he’s a defender like Gordon wishes he was (granted, few guards this size on the planet can score from the distance and in the variety of ways Gordon does). Still, whatever team nabs Douglas on draft night will have happy coaches and fans that will appreciate his in-your-face style.
Summers is my sleeper pick for the draft. I got into a heated debate with my man JB “Beans” Beckett Sunday about Summer and Young. After watching some film clips of both, including some of their head-to-head matchup from the season, we agreed that we were both right and that Summer and Young have a chance to contribute as rookies wherever they go. Now if we could just convince someone to let us draft for them Thursday night.
All joking aside, I have no earthly idea what happens Thursday night. Who does?
Too much can swing things on draft night. And we didn’t even get into the all the crazy scenarios that could happen if the Hawks were to find the right package to move the pick (and whatever else necessary) to shore up their depth issues at certain positions.
Nothing is outside of the realm of possibility right now, my friends. Nothing at all.
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803 comments Add your comment
niremetal
June 22nd, 2009
12:32 am
Sounds like the Hawks like the UNC folks. I could live with either Hansborough or Ellington – both give us depth and something we lack coming off the bench (energy and toughness in the frontcourt with Hansborough and a deadly shooter in Ellington). Not bad for a #19 pick. And it’s better than Sund’s history of picking risky 7 footers
KC
June 22nd, 2009
12:45 am
BJ Mullens will likely be available. I wouldn’t be mad about that pick at all.
darrell starks
June 22nd, 2009
1:05 am
Like i said on the other blog when scouting and nba sometime we get caught up in the scoring avg in college and dont look at the style of play for example iggy of philly was a horrible shooter in college but you new his style of play was going to be something speciall in the nba and thats how i feel about terrence william.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
cp
June 22nd, 2009
1:35 am
Terrance Williams reminds me of Iguodala. Once he improves his jumper he could be scary. I like Ellington over Hansborough but like it was stated I doubt Hansborough is even there when we pick. Man with guys like Teague, Ellington, Young , Brown, and maybe Clark who could all be there at 19 its just going to be crazy. Hudson, Meeks, or Danny Green in the second sounds good to me. I wish we had 2 second rounders to get 2 of the 3 guys.
Ed-Covington
June 22nd, 2009
1:49 am
In your article on Ellington, you state that the 19th pick is where most mock drafts have him going. Your own mock draft has him at 29 to LAL; wouldn’t 19 be a reach for a #2 to back up JJ?
The Truth
June 22nd, 2009
2:15 am
The problem I have with Hansbrough has less to do with him; it has more to do with the Hawks. It’s well known that the Hawks has a tweener starting frontline. We need compliment players that can offset our weaknesses. Hansbrough is a PF/C in a SF body which makes him a tweener also. Also his game makes him a tweener also because he plays the game with his back toward the basket (like a center) in a SF body. As good as he looks in drills, I doubt if he could get his shots off against NBA defenders in the paint. Do we really need another tweener? WE NEED TO STOP THIS MADNESS OF OVERLOOKING OUR TEAM MAKEUP AND RANDOMLY PICKING PLAYERS BASED ON MEDIA HYPE. A child is not going to touch fire but once and realize to stay away. How many times are we going to get burnt at the draft party? Hansbrough may have the heart and that I don’t question, but he is not the body type we are looking for. If it’s a frontline player we are considering, we need NBA length and athleticism with skills that plays with an attitude. Didn’t we just witness the playoff finals?
BarkingBulldawg
June 22nd, 2009
3:12 am
Did we not learn with Shelden Williams that it takes more than effort and heart to succeed in the NBA? I do hope Hansborough is gone when we pick…because I will want to shoot myself if we take him. Ty Lawson is the only UNC player I would want us to go near, and of course, he is the one we haven’t worked out. The closer it gets to draft day, the more I feel like we are going to botch this. Heck, I almost expect it, and that is just sad considering the exactly opposite feelings I hold towards Falcons mgmt.
I’m really gonna be scratching my head if we go anywhere other than PG which seems more and more likely with the workouts. But we SHOULD all know that we can’t truly progress and move forward until Woody is gone, so I guess there have been more crucial drafts. It really is hard to get too excited about anything Hawks-related with this dunce at the helm.
And Dear God, help Rick Sund perform better than he has in the past. We could seriously do without another Saer Sene or Robert Swift. Thanks, Lord.
Ed
June 22nd, 2009
3:23 am
This is an interesting top five lists link rating the potential draftees in many different categories.
http://www.nbadraft.net/node/7629
Ed
June 22nd, 2009
4:12 am
Question Sekou…do you stand by your pick of W. Ellington as the Hawks pick?
Big Ray
June 22nd, 2009
5:22 am
Heh. Expected Doc to show up and start making noise about Hansbrough. Then again, when you think Yi is a better pick than Al (no Doc, I’m not letting you forget that one
)…
I’d be fine with Hansbrough, provided that 1)There’s not a better contributor available, and 2) We use him properly. Maybe I should just settle for using him AT ALL. Dude is definitely an energy guy with smarts and control. Hard to find that combination, as many energy types are out of control and have a hard time playing somewhat within the flow of the game. Of course, good coaching helps that, but that’s hard to find as well…
I like Ellington. Sweet stroke, but as Sekou says, can he defend his position? If he can’t, then he’s a situational guy at best (try not to follow Salim’s path, Wayne), and around here, that never is a good thing. Ask Mario and Royal….
I still like Ty Lawson, too. Fact is, he may have a better chance at falling than his two aforementioned teammates. Although, it’s a toss-up as to who stands a better chance at seeing significant minutes as a Hawks rookie, between him and Ellington. Depends on whether or not Bibby is re-signed.
Now, let’s say our turn on the clock comes, and both Hansbrough and Mullens are actually there (just a hypothetical). Which does Sund pick? How about if Hansbrough, Lawson, and Ellington are all there?
Alright, back to sleep…
Big Ray
June 22nd, 2009
5:29 am
The Truth,
Hansbrough is a bit of a ‘tweener indeed. What can I say, there appears to be a bit of a fetish along those lines in Hawksville. I say he’s a 4, no matter what. There are two many athletic 3s that will eat his ass up, so don’t play him there. Meanwhile, he has just enough height and strength (measures out essentially the same size as Horford, minus about 10 pounds), and more than enough desire, smarts, and tenacity to hang in down there. Again, it all depends on whether there is or isn’t a player who will help us more at that pick, and whether or not Sund and crew see it that way.
BarkingBulldawg,
Effort, heart, desire. These things do not belong in the same sentence with Sheldon Williams. Try lost, bad footwork, and a negative vertical. Hansbrough is everything from the neck-up that you’d want Sheldon to be. Sheldon just ain’t…and he’ll probably be the first guy to get jacked at a barber shop in Minnesota…
akintu
June 22nd, 2009
6:59 am
We are missing the boat again……….we draft a 4 when we have 3 people in the starting line up (well maybe two…I often exagerate) who’s best position is probably the 4 when we have other glaring needs….it makes absolutely no sense…..If the hawks are really looking to move Marvin (I think this is a bad move BTW) then I think DeJuan Summers is a smart pick because Joah can’t play the 3, he can’t shoot and isn’t a good enough on ball defender.
the only way we should draft a 2 is if we move JJ (I think we should move him, but that probably won’t happen). If we move Josh then we could draft a 4 or better yet move Al “could be an all-star PF” Horford to the 4 and between the draft and FA find a legit 5 that can fill out the line up.
lastly I think we should let Bibby walk so in reality taking anything other than a PG who can start in the NBA is a mistake!!!
The Truth
June 22nd, 2009
7:21 am
Ray
So website got Hansbrough listed at 6’ 8’’ @ 234 lbs. with not enough wing-span to make up for his lack of size at the 4 position. Accordingly, he struggles defending taller and more athletic players even at the college level. I’m trying to image him going up against the likes of KG. If I had just 1 first-round bullet, I would not be shooting at Hansbrough. I still believe this article is a Jedi thing Sekou wrote to create a smoke screen and throw the draft order off to enable something really good to fall to the Hawks.
doc
June 22nd, 2009
7:22 am
hmmm, short nap.
doc
June 22nd, 2009
7:33 am
this isnt a raving positive review of hansbrough but how i described him earlier to ray:
“maybe hansbrough is a cross between what we could get from a mixture of chills and zaza in the hansbrough pick, not what we had in chills. unfortunately, he is not the best of both but maybe enough of the positives of both to be worth the chance on an early contributor. he doesnt have the quickness or length of chills nor the versatility and doesnt have the bulk of zaza but enough to go for it.
we are where we were when we picked shels in depth on the roster sadly enough so we got to get it right. man that is a reality check we might be even worse off than then except for horford but really less depth and organic growth potential, heh heh.”
hansbrough is a tweener but a good one. he has a better motor than shels, if shels had that kind of energy he would have stayed, too many times i saw him refuse or it fail to compute that if he moved quicker to something like the loose ball or someone coming off a screen he might have been a real contributor. complacency was his problem and that is not hansbrough’s.
Sekou Smith
June 22nd, 2009
7:35 am
That mock draft you are referring to is two weeks old. I’ll have a new one in Thursday’s paper. And I’ll roll with my pick in that one.
And BarkingBulldawg made the inevitable Shelden Williams comparison to Hansbrough, which I don’t see at all. They are totally different players and were in college. More importantly, no one is talking about taking Hansbrough in the top five. Granted, no one other than the Hawks would have dared to take Shelden in the top five either.
I just think at 19 you can’t be mad with a guy that’s going to come in and be a rotation player. If you get an All-Star down there, it’s usually blind luck anyway.
dap01
June 22nd, 2009
7:49 am
Thanks for the great work, Sekou!
yessir
June 22nd, 2009
8:27 am
hot off the press, Speedy(contract),R.Morris, and 19th pick for Camby. I said it firt. Its being discussed Sekou, what do you think?
doc
June 22nd, 2009
8:30 am
yessir, you can come by my house any day and pick up my trash. it will only cost you maybe 1 mil and it is a deal. you can write it off next year on your taxes as a bad investment.
answer is … doubt it.
Paul
June 22nd, 2009
8:31 am
If we can someone trade up in the 2nd round and nab Toney Douglas as our 2nd player drafted, we will have a heckuva draft.
doc
June 22nd, 2009
8:32 am
you know when are these “said it first” guys going to come back and say well you know when i said this … well i confess, it never came to pass.
G-Man
June 22nd, 2009
8:59 am
Guys Lester Hudson sounds like a huge steal to me in the second round. He can shoot the ball with good effeciency all the way to the nba three. He can play defense well with his freakish 6′9 wingspan. He is great at stealing the ball posting 2.3 steals a game. He has good court vision and is great with his dribble-drive penetration and kick out to the open man. Also for a 6′3 combo guard he averages 8 rebounds a game posting many games of more than 10 boards. If all this isn’t enough to convince you he has posted a Quadruple double. 25 pts, 12 rebounds, 10 assists, and 10 steals.
You guys need to check out how impressive his game log is
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=37439
I know all this was done in a weaker division but you have to admit those are impressive numbers anywhere you go.
yessir
June 22nd, 2009
9:04 am
Doc, never said it was going to happen, but they are discussing it
Samuel
June 22nd, 2009
9:05 am
Hansbrough is not athletic enough to guard an NBA three and not big enough to guard a 4. He’s also not a good offensive player. I just don’t see it at 19 and especially for a team looking to “upgrade” our talent. A 6′8″ Mario maybe but we really don’t need that. We need somebody who can put the ball in the “hole”.
Yes, he is different from “The Slumlord” but also simular. Sheldon was a great College player and was considered an “effort guy” and an overachiever. That only takes you so far in the NBA.
Utah is the best place for him.
Bobby Cox is DONE!!!!!!
June 22nd, 2009
9:13 am
Sekou, any chance of Childress or Andersen suiting up for the Hawks this season, and if not, any chance that Sund can trade their rights Thursday night for another pick or two.
This team could get exponentially better with Childress, Andersen and point guard added to the mix.
G-Man
June 22nd, 2009
9:17 am
Hey guys, Cavs want to move up in the draft. We could take their 30th pick and snag Toney Douglas and also their 46th pick. In return they can aquire our 19th pick. So we get the person everyone seems to want us to get along with 2 second round picks.
Sekou Smith
June 22nd, 2009
9:19 am
The deal for Camby would be done already. That’s a no-brainer for the Hawks. NO-BRAINER!!!!!!!!!! As for Childress and Andersen, I’d think there’s a better chance Andersen plays for the Hawks this season than Childress. And I’m not betting on either guy being here.
Bobby Cox is DONE!!!!!!
June 22nd, 2009
9:33 am
Why are we not chasing Andersen, it makes no sense. This guy is a near 7 footer with actual offensive skill. Are the Hawks simply scared to actually have a big man with talent? It boggles the mind.
Also, on Childress, are we at least exploring options to move his rights? I know that the spitting and cigarette smoking in the arenas is wearing on him, and he will come back to the NBA soon. It will be a shame, but typical Hawk move to let him go with nothing in return.
What is going on behind the scenes with Bibby? His agent does not actually believe they will get $10 per year, does he? Been hanging out with Josh Howard? A 33 year-old with shot knees who cannot run the break or defend ANYONE is not worth more than $3-5 per. Could we get him at that by giving an extra year?
doc
June 22nd, 2009
9:42 am
samuel, sounds like a description of mo at his position of swing 2 and 3. cant score well enough for the two and cant keep up with the three’s on defense because he is limited physically. he does play a role and that is all one wants from a 19, so hansbrough fits the bill in that respect. who would be starters at 19, very few come along?
as i said above again, i recognize the flies around him but picking at 19 means there are flies around everyone. he has a lot more skill than mario as well and would prefer douglas to fill that bill if i could get my hands on him somehow and someway. to compare him in any way with shels as sekou says is unfair as shels showed no motor, nor skill and no desire. you can give hansbrough a plus on two of the three and c plus on the other. if he can play defense, which he will, he will fit.
O'Brien
June 22nd, 2009
9:43 am
Sekou,
Do you think the Hawks would be willing to make a deal (Acie, Speedy, 19) to move up?
And if they are able to move up (let’s say 8-15), who do you think they might be looking at?
Astro Joe
June 22nd, 2009
9:52 am
It’s kind of sad that the Hawks were blown away by Hansborough. I think it speaks to the lack of fire that exists on the club. I know some of the guys are capable of bringing it hard but it feels like the staff is amazed when they watch a guy who ALWAYS brings it. Anyone who has that fire in his belly (like Hansborough or Douglas) is the type of guy I want. Instead of best available player, give me the most fire in the belly player at #19.
Sautee
June 22nd, 2009
9:55 am
doc,
“hmmm, short nap.”
Just what I was thinking. LOL!
Mike is back
June 22nd, 2009
9:56 am
Sekou, I wouldn’t be mad at the pick, but I would go with Ellington if he’s still there. Besides, I think you can get the same thing from Sutan out of Michigan State in the second round…maybe not the energy but a solid rotation guy.
It is time to draft one of these 6’11” or 7-foot guys, and bring in someone in to develop them. If you are going to gamble on Big with the 19th pick, this draft is a good one to do it…else we run the risk of adding to the duplicity, which already exist.
U know I think the world of Sam Young and I have much respect for Hansbrough…but if you are the Hawks, you can’t draft another SF or PF…its time do something different. We have Al…Now it time to go with another Big.
Of course I don’t what the tone of the negotiations are with Bibby…if things are cold or luke warm…then I see a taking a PG with the 19th…save for that I’m taking the Best big with the most upsides still on the board with the 19th. No need to reach in this draft…too many ?????????????????? marks.
dap01
June 22nd, 2009
9:57 am
We should use Speedy, Childress to move up in the 2nd to pick Douglas. We should explore bringing Anderson over. He can shoot. We should not overpay for Bibby (he would be a great role player).
Ellington sounds impressive.
niremetal
June 22nd, 2009
10:10 am
Why are we not chasing Andersen, it makes no sense. This guy is a near 7 footer with actual offensive skill. Are the Hawks simply scared to actually have a big man with talent? It boggles the mind.
Gee, I don’t know. Maybe it could have something to do with the fact that every single scouting report says that he’s godawful on defense. We don’t need a 6′11 who can shoot jumpers. We need a 6′11 guy who can defend. If my choice is between re-signing Zaza and going after a slower, less consistent, and even worse (far worse) on defense version of Okur, I take Zaza every time.
HAWKMAN
June 22nd, 2009
10:10 am
LATER FOR ALL THAT GOOD TEAM CRAP DUMP. M.BIBBY, F.MURRY, RESIGN ZAZA,M.WILLIAMS. PICK UP TOO PLAYERS WHO WILL MAKE THE HAWKS A CHAMPINSHIP TEAM. A.I AND R.WALLACE. FORM DETROIT. STARTING 5. PG AI. SG J.JOHNSON. SF J.SMITH PF A.HORTFORD. C R.WALLACE. WITH M.WILLIAMS AS THE 6 MAN BRING HIS SCORING TO THE SECOND UNIT. WHICH ALSO HAVE ZAZA. M.EVANS.AND WHOMEVER THE 19TH PICK BRINGS. A PG. MAYBE TO ADD TO THE BENCH. WITH M.WEST. AND S.JONES IF WE CAN RESIGN HIM AT A COOL PRICE. OR ANOTHER VET. THAT A 10 TO 11 PLAYER DEEP TEAM.
niremetal
June 22nd, 2009
10:12 am
That being said, we should make some use of Andersen – but that use should be trading him to a team that could and would use him.
niremetal
June 22nd, 2009
10:13 am
*ding*
A Tribe Called Quest
June 22nd, 2009
10:20 am
Great, let’s only post what the UNC afficionado Larry Drew has to say. I’m sure his comments are very unbiased too.
No thanks to Hansbrough. I don’t want some undersized Shelden Williams stiff who looks weird on our team again
swatguy
June 22nd, 2009
10:23 am
I would like to see the Hawks sign Zaza, Flip, Chillz and Anderson. Deal the parts such as Marvin( SnT), Acie and Speedy. Renounce Bibby and everyone else on the bench named not Hunter and West.
Three picks in the draft (Ellison, Hansbrough and Hudson). Oh, and sign a point (Sessions or Miller).
By the way, I hope “Rio is shooting 3’s right now and all day.
Sekou, with Bibs defensive shortcomings, we can use a cheaper pair of combo’s + Chillz at the point.
How is Levingston’s rehab?
Melvin
June 22nd, 2009
10:25 am
Sekou,
I guess you and your friend Beans must have read my post on your last blog in regards to Dejuan Summers. I agree that he’s a sleeper and wouldn’t mind seeing him in Hawks uniform next season. We could even trade down b/c most mocks have him going in mid 20’s to early 2nd round. If he’s available in the 2nd then the Hawks should move up to select him. I rather have Summers on the bench then RandMo, Mario, Gadner and Hunter.
However, if Terrence Williams is available at #19, I would go with him. 6′6 guy that can handle the rock, pass and create off the dribble. He’s cut from the Scottie Pippen cloth. I can see him being a Point Forward with JJ and Bibby (if resigned) spotting up on the wings for jumpers.
If the Hawks doesn’t select a PG in the 1st rnd then I would like to see them pick Curtis Jerells (think Acie with a jumpshot) in the 2nd round…
As for Wayne Ellington, I can’t help but think Rodney Monroe who play for NC State in the 90’s. Any spot in the gym was in his range. Neither guy is that effective off the dribble but they are deadly off of screens….
LEA
June 22nd, 2009
10:32 am
great, we will pick another tweener who can’t guard big men, and continue to ignore the fact that we need a PG who can actually play defense. and a big man who could at least give Dwight some problems.. I’m not surprised at all though, the Hawks will never get it right.. And will sign Bibby to a 11 million dollar per year contract, ignoring the fact that he is old and doesn’t play any defense…
The Truth
June 22nd, 2009
10:36 am
Now that I think about it. With the exception of BK, the talent evaluators for the Hawks are still in place. Nothing has really changed except for the GM replacement. So, maybe we are operating in the insanity mode right now of doing the same thing with these illogical picks and expecting a different result. Let’s hope the Sund factor will bring some common sense to the madness. Right now, in my book, Sund is batting 50% with his last-year pick-ups. I’ll also deduct another 10% for several of his inactions so that equals a batting Avg. of 40%. Therefore I should tweak my expectation down somewhat to match his hitting Avg. We shall see
Astro Joe
June 22nd, 2009
10:37 am
How is it that a guy who was DPOY in a conference like the ACC AND has a tremendous shooting stroke (good enough to be compared to Ben Gordon) isn’t getting more love?
Melvin, I agree, the Hawks ver rarely set weak-side screens (although they should), so I’m not sure Ellington would fit this team. Playing “Point Forward” is challenging when you’re coming off the bench. And even if we don’t bring back Marvin, I don’t think that we can start Joe, T. Williams, Josh and Al together. That is a very, very small team.
mrprozach
June 22nd, 2009
10:40 am
NBA draft.net has a new mock up. They have the hawks taking Jrue Holliday at 19. Teague and Hansborough are off the board in their draft. But Ellington and Buddinger would still be available. Thoughts on picking a Eric Snow type PG at 19? http://www.nbadraft.net/2009mock_draft
LEA
June 22nd, 2009
10:44 am
I was always a big fan of Eric Snow’s game, so I wouldn’t be upset with that pick.. Hell I’d rather pick Bj Mullens before I draft Tyler…
UGA
June 22nd, 2009
10:52 am
Hansbrough may be a Jeff Foster in this league (which I would take)
I’d be fine if the Hawks took Ellington with the pick.
doc
June 22nd, 2009
10:53 am
sautee ….. chuckle.
Daniel
June 22nd, 2009
11:08 am
Astro Joe- I hope that Toney doesn’t get any more love, and the Hawks can land him in the second round. What a steal that guy will be. Hollinger doesn’t even have Toney Douglas getting drafted?!?
Hansbrough and Douglas in the same draft class? Two seniors with great defensive passion, energy and high basketball IQ, the Hawks could do a lot worse. Although, I still hope that we can get a point at 19(lawson)
I.MUS WRITE- INTERNATIONAL MAN OF MYSTERY
June 22nd, 2009
11:18 am
Lester Hudson -looks like a good pick….kinda reminds me of Russel Westbrook with a better jumper. Give me ty Lawson or danny green if we have to go the UNC route………… Pshycho T….Puleez
Sekou Smith
June 22nd, 2009
11:22 am
I think the Hawks would be willing to use 19 and Speedy to make a deal O’Brien, but not to move up in the draft. Use them to move out of the draft and get a player. This isn’t the kind of draft I’d be moving up in unless things go haywire on draft night and you think you can get a cat that’s dropping like it’s hot. Otherwise, you move out and snag a real player (Ray went off on this on the last blog, I believe).
I can see why people are hesitant on Toney Douglas Joe, he’s never really played the point and he’s too short to project at shooting guard (dude is right around 6-foot but a ferocious competitor). Teams are going to be cautious about a guy they think might be a tweener at that spot with so many PG-types in the draft.
And lay off Larry Drew my man Tribe. He’s always runs the Hawks’ workouts and he always tells it like it is. He doesn’t sugar coat anything for anybody.
Melvin
June 22nd, 2009
11:25 am
Astro,
How is playing T.Williams (6′6) along side JJ and Bibby is any different than playing Flip(6′2) and Evans (6′5)? Especially, if he can create his own shot….
coachx
June 22nd, 2009
11:30 am
Just for the record, Hansbrough measured 6′9.5” for the official the predraft measurement. That is legit PF size. His verticle was measured at 34” which is pretty darn good for a dude who’s is a hair under 6′10”.
I agree on the David Anderson sentiments as well. He would help us a ton.
A Tribe Called Quest
June 22nd, 2009
11:32 am
My bad Sekou. I love Larry Drew, but I’d love to see what these other coaches have to say about the UNC players. I think out of all schools, UNC is the one that will get the most favorable reviews for its players at workouts just because it’s UNC.
And I stand by what i said: do not let that stiff Hansbrough in here. Get the best possible point guard, resign ZaZa, and sign another big or the superstar Solomon Jones
Hawksfanatic
June 22nd, 2009
11:33 am
All this talk of comparing Hansbrough and Shelden has me thinking, Sekou has there been even the slightest discussion of bringing Shelden back on our team? The T-Wolves declined his option and is now an unrestricted free agent. Yea he is a bust for a Top 5 pick, but he can still be a rotational player. He also knows the “system” (if you can even call it that), about the only downside would be if there were people in the organization that didn’t like him (either Woodson or just players in general).
coachx
June 22nd, 2009
11:38 am
Enter your comments here
O'Brien
June 22nd, 2009
11:39 am
Thanks Sekou.
Although I have no idea what deals may be available, I would love to see the Hawks make a deal, because we know Speedy is not going to get any PT here, and in these economic times, his expiring contract should be valuable. If he is healthy, he can still play (situational) defense, and if he’s hurt, his insurance might cover the majority of his salary.
With the new mock draft on nbadraft.net, the Hawks taking Jrue Holliday, what do you guys think of his game?
Melvin
June 22nd, 2009
11:39 am
It wouldn’t surprise me if the Hawks trade out of the 1st round. Hopefully, we can get good value in return.
Reggie
June 22nd, 2009
11:44 am
Sekou
How would Jeff Teague fit with the hawks?
Astro Joe
June 22nd, 2009
11:48 am
Melvin, not much different. What would be different is that most point forwards are guys who need to play 30+ minutes and get into the flow of the game. I’m thinking about guys like Diaw, Billy Owens, Kukoc, Pippen, Hedu… all of those guys were/are more effective when they are in the center of things. I think it would be hard to project Williams as being able to play 30+ minutes as a SF with a small PF playing next to him. The small line-up that you mentioned is rarely on the floor for more than a short spurt. Can Williams be the lead distributor for the second unit? Sounds good in theory, I just don’t know if it would happen in reality.
Sekou, I hear you. But just call him a guard and let him defend the PG position (better than most) and bury open jumpers (better than most). How can that be a bad thing?
newkid
June 22nd, 2009
11:57 am
If Sund and Woody continue to be stuck on the ‘retro Detroit’ formula, could Ellington be to the Hawks what Rip Hamilton was (is) to the Pistons? Hawks don’t currently have a player on the roster who can duplicate Rip’s offensive role in Detroit. Roy Williams effectively used Ellington in a similar fashion at Carolina. Players of that ilk need not be terribly athletic (e.g., Ray Allen), but must be dead-eye shooters coming off screens, and willing to run all day. Moving JJ down to the 3-spot when Ellington is on the court could give opposing teams a difficult look to defend in 3-5 minute spurts.
Daniel
June 22nd, 2009
12:16 pm
Sekou-
what are you thoughts on what they might get for the 19th pick and Claxton?
Big Ray
June 22nd, 2009
12:19 pm
Newkid,
No. We don’t set nearly enough screens even for Joe or Bibby. Ellington wouldn’t have a chance at Rip Hamilton-like status. You can count on one hand how many guys on this team consistently set solid screens. And you’ll only really need two fingers….
Astro Joe,
I certainly understand the “fire in the belly” sentiment. Only, it doesn’t seem to have much value here in Hawksville. Mario arguably has the most fire, but how much burn does he get for his efforts? Exactly. Guess “skills” might have something to do with that. The last guy with that much fire was Chills, and we still miss him. I don’t think he’ll be back in a Hawks uni, either. Dammit, how do you lose an asset like that? Only Sund knows. Josh usually has that fire, but he loses it sometimes. I won’t go into why I think that is. Horford usually has it. The guys who have the least amount of fire are the ones who have the ball the most…except Marvin, who can’t seem to muster a single stinking spark some days.
We can complain about energy until we’re blue in the face. But let’s be honest: it’s not that highly valued.
Sekou,
Yes, I did go off on that subject. I STILL think the Hawks should trade the pick for a proven rotational contributor. Unfortunately, any such suggestions usually result in an attack by the bean counters. Ah, life in the blog…
A Tribe Called Quest
June 22nd, 2009
12:22 pm
We don’t need another 6″9 SF. OMG are you people freaking serious about all this?
We need a point guard and a freaking 7 foot center. Where the heck does getting a 6″8 shooter fit in our formula? We have 7 players on this team who can play SF
Big Ray
June 22nd, 2009
12:31 pm
The Truth,
DraftExpress has Hansbrough at 6′8.25″ without shoes, 6′9.5″ with shoes. His wingspan is 6′11.5″ and his standing reach is 8′11″. He checks in at 234.
Al Horford is exactly .25″ taller with shoes, has a wingspan exactly 1″ longer, and has the same standing reach, while weighing 12 more pounds. And he plays center in the NBA.
Hansbrough could use some bulking up, but he can play some PF in the NBA. I doubt anybody expects him to be a starter, but very likely a rotational player and fixture on some team. If he’s lacking in size, then somebody better send a memo to guys like Udonis Haslem, Drew Gooden, etc. So many PFs in the league came in with very similar measurements, some within a half inch or 2 pounds in either direction (higher or lower). Sheldon should have been a solid PF. The problem was from the neck-up. I don’t think Hansbrough has that issue AT ALL.
Again, I have no issue with the pick, provided that we’re not leaving a player on the board who can help us more.
newkid
June 22nd, 2009
12:32 pm
Ray, you’re assuming that because we don’t, we won’t. Not sure that’s an accurate assumption; not sure Washington and Detroit had Rip-like motion in their offenses prior to Hamilton’s arrival; not sure Boston had a profusion of screens in their offense geared to free a designated shooter just prior to Allen’s arrival (although that was a big part of there offense for decades). Future success will come more forthrightly to those who look ahead, as opposed to those who look at what exists today or existed yesterday and assume tomorrow will be nothing more than a replication. I know, I know, we’re talking about Woody here.
Big Ray
June 22nd, 2009
12:36 pm
Quest,
We’re not talking about picking in the lottery anymore, so it’s not as big of a deal. On the flip side, I am definitely hearing you on the pg thing. However, I’d rather have a proven young vet from the league (Jack or Sessions, or even the older Hinrich) than the 6 or 7th best pg in the draft (you know, the “leftovers”), who may try in vain to break his way into the playing rotation.
Besides all that, what 7-foot center that’s still available at #19 are you wanting? Hey, if all you want is a 7-footer, we can go back in time and get Priest Lauderdale. Or, we can scour the hills and valleys of Europe and recruit the tallest goat farmer we can find. Or we can pry Luke Schenser away from some fortunate team. Hey, is he still in the league?
kwooden1
June 22nd, 2009
12:40 pm
In terms of the draft if the http://www.nbadraft.net’s latest version holds true, I would draft Lawson before any of the guys above him. There wasn’t a guy in college that could stay in front of him. (he add 21 against Douglas) He can correct his shot and work on his range, but with his quickness he would be a steal at 19.
We actually have a lot of shooters right now, so I would again go over Lawson over Ellington. But if a big like Tyler H. or Mullens is available you have to go with them. I don’t think we’re going to get to much for Speedy’s contract or be able to work enough of our MLE to get a Big in free agency. (have to draft one!)
O'Brien
June 22nd, 2009
1:02 pm
And this is where Woody comes in. Does anyone feel confident that Woody can develop plays to maximize the skills of his players? If we get Ellington, screens would be good for him. But we hardly run any for JJ and Bibby as it is.
Rather than change his scheme to fit his players, Woody demands that his players fit into his system. Which wouldnt be so bad if he actually had some kind of system (iso JJ is not a system. JJ pound the ball then pass to Josh right inside the 3 point line with 4 seconds on the shot clock is not a system).
Big Ray
June 22nd, 2009
1:05 pm
Newkid,
Your last sentence pretty much nullified the entirety of the preceeding paragraph, LOL! Yeah, I get your point, and unlike some here, I will not suggest that you didn’t watch Hawks games. I agree that those who are looking ahead can make the necessary adjustments. We won’t go there. As I said, it seems that we don’t do enough for the shooters we DO have, much less any incoming ones.
A good coach has to get over what he has. A shooter/scorer is a shooter/scorer. You can either spend your time pissing and moaning about how he doesn’t play excellent defense, or doesn’t handle the ball well enough to run the point, or he wasn’t the guy you wanted in the draft, or whatever. You have to GET THE “F” OVER THAT, and find a way to exploit/maximize what he DOES give you.
That is what frustrates me about Bibby the most. He no longer has the speed and jab-step that he did before, that allowed him to create for himself. To best utilize him, we should have been throwing multiple screens to set him free. Dude only needs a half second, and that sweet stroke will straight up kill teams. But we just couldn’t seem to do it. Meanwhile, Joe is able to successfully play “keep away” against up to three defenders at a time (as long as he’s not caught along the baseline or sideline), so we practically set NO screens for him.
What in the hell are we going to do with a pure shooter like Ellington? Hey, I’m not hating on the player, or picking him. But you don’t pick a guy like that, expecting him to turn into a creator like Joe, or expecting him to shoot (accurately) over two defenders, 28 feet from the basket.
I won’t even blame it all on the coach. One of my obviously favorite players is also arguably the worst offender. That’s right, Josh Smith. His idea of running the pick and roll is to PRETEND like he’s going to set a screen, then slip it and flash towards the basket, leaving his teammate with two defenders who knew a screen wasn’t coming anyway. To make matters worse, he all too often doesn’t get the ball ANYWAY (but they’ll damn sure heave it to him when he’s hanging around the arc, won’t they).
So in conclusion, I counter your very accurate and valid comment with a question. If Woody (and his players) can’t run a solid screen for his two favorite players in the whole wide world (Joe and Bibby), then what rookie would rate such treatment, or even influence what HASN’T been done in the past 5 years?
If there’s not a major Sund hammer involved, I just don’t see it…
Big Ray
June 22nd, 2009
1:08 pm
O’brien,
You know, I think maybe if I hadn’t stopped for a restroom break, I MIGHT have beaten you to that post, LOL!!!
I agree completely, though my not-so-pent up frustration obviously got the better of me (hence the fact that I used a lot more verbage to get the point across).
Ramon
June 22nd, 2009
1:10 pm
The more I think about the draft, the more I like the idea of adding someone like Ellington above everyone else expected to be at the 19th spot. One thing I’m liking is the idea of when JJ or Marvin going out, still having someone come in off the bench who can still spread the defense. If the Hawks ever gets serious about allowing parts of the offense to run through Horford and Smoove on the blocks (which has proven to be the best offensive strategy thus far), then it will take the most shooters possible to be on the court at the same time to make defenses stay honest. The thing I liked about Ellington is he didn’t need the ball in hand to do his damage. And for all the good that Flip does, he’s not affective when he’s not creating for himself. I do think with a 6th man like Ellington, JJ would be able to rest longer.
I also will say that with the addition of Ellington, I would be willing to pay Chills more than Marvin. For the simple fact of remembering how valuable Chills always was when injuries came to the back court. Or if the team wants someone else on the bench I will bring up the name of Mike Miller again, and still stand behind the idea that his shooting off the bench would be wonderful.
Big Ray
June 22nd, 2009
1:10 pm
Kwooden1,
If going for a pg in the draft, I agree on Lawson. I don’t know about Holliday. He could be VERY good, but is he polished enough to even get PT here? Methinks not, unless he shows he can 1) defend his position, and 2) Hit the open shot from just about anywhere. And not necessarily in that order.
Still rooting for the acquisition of a young vet at pg, particularly as long as Woody is here.
Big Ray
June 22nd, 2009
1:13 pm
Ramon,
Good point. Now here’s a question for you. What about Thomas Gardner? That kid is NOT afraid to throw it up, and can score. He scored like a madman in the D-league, and hit some shots in actual NBA games where he was given adequate opportunity to shoot. Ellington has not taken one shot in either situation, as of yet. Is he better? Does he give us something that Garnder does not? Just asking.
jhan
June 22nd, 2009
1:14 pm
It’s very hard to decide who they should pick because I don’t know what their long term plans are for: Bibby, Flip, ZaZa, Chills, Law & Marvin.
If I knew those plans then I could create an effective draft strategy. I will never know those plans so I won’t waste my time.
I do believe that after seeing who they select I can make an educated guess on what their plans are for the UFA’s & RFA’s.
I can say that any of the UNC guys would work for me. I wouldn’t draft any centers in the first round except Mullens – I don’t even like him that much but we REALLY need size on this team so I’d take a flyer.
HawkKingBibby
June 22nd, 2009
1:18 pm
Enter your comments here
HawkKingBibby
June 22nd, 2009
1:20 pm
Isnt that all out intensity and fire exactly what Shelden Williams was ” supposed ” to bring to the Hawks?
O'Brien
June 22nd, 2009
1:26 pm
Ray
Great minds think alike LOL. I am also on the “get a young PG (Jack, Sessions or Hinrich) bandwagon”.
I agree about Thomas Gardner. Wasnt it the Cleveland game in the playoffs when we were getting blown out, and they brought Acie and Gardener in. And the Hawks subsequently went on a big run. I remember Hubie Brown saying the Cavs thought they would have to put starters back in the game. Acie was driving and dishing, Gardener was knocking down 3’s.
Astro Joe
June 22nd, 2009
1:36 pm
jhan, I agree completely with your 1:14 post.
newkid, I’ve never watched Ellington play. Is he as willing to defend as Rip? Because while Rip haws physical limitations, he certainly has the right defensive attitude.
Ray, the combination of basketball skills AND being “fiercely competitive” is what I meant. Finding a guy willing to go thru walls to earn a NBA paycheck is not that hard. Finding one with demonstrated basketball skills from a big-time conference (and is fearless), that’s another thing.
Bottom line, Douglas may be one of the few two-way players available at #19. A guy who can immediately contribute at both ends of the floor.
SWAT Native
June 22nd, 2009
1:36 pm
I sometimes think that the Hawks draft the same player over and over – the undersized PF that plays below the rim, good kid from a good school, good program: Adam Keefe, Alan Henderson, Sheldon Williams, and now we’re talking about Tyler Hansbrough.
What’s funny to me though, with all of the Tarheel love, so many people want to label Marvin Williams a bust and trade him after starting for several years, but think that the current crop of NC players that are maybe a year younger than Marvin are the answers to all the Hawks’ problems.
Astro Joe
June 22nd, 2009
1:44 pm
Every player who makes an NBA roster has some qualities that allow him to earn a paycheck. And those qualities may appear in a real game. But I kind of doubt that cats like Jeremy Richardson and Thomas Gardner are as consistent ro possess the same basketball-IQ as Wayne Ellington. I know that there have been examples of all 30 teams being wrong about a player (like Arenas or Redd) but I’ll always put my money on a cat like Ellington who is projected as a first rounder vs. the Jeremy Richardsons and Thomas Gardners of the world.
Rufus1
June 22nd, 2009
1:54 pm
Sekou
I would like Josh Heytvelt. He is 6′11 260lb, can shoot the 3 at 40%, a good shot blocker, a good athlete and is a good rebounder. I would prefer Hansbrough, But Heyvelt is NBA ready.
Big Ray
June 22nd, 2009
2:05 pm
So DraftExpress has us taking Teague, and NBADraft.net has us taking Ellington. I wonder which will prove to be more on target, or will both be way off?
Daniel
June 22nd, 2009
2:20 pm
I am not sure about Hansbrough as a Hawk, but I am sure that he is NOT Shelden Williams.
MannyT
June 22nd, 2009
2:34 pm
You draft wizards confuse me.
Seems like this draft is not as strong at the top, but has lots of guys that are ok. Consequently the late first round seems to be the hot spot. You get a player almost as good for a lot less money. So why all the trade up ideas. Let’s just take the best player available.
The ideas is that this player will hopefully contribute, but definitely not be a starter. I do not object to PsychoT, or Toney Douglas, or most of the guys you speak of as bench players. As long as we keep some basic thoughts about fit in mind.
If we get a center–his primary skills should be a defensive, lane clogging, sometimes flagrant foul earning nasty dude that can rebound.
If we get a PG–he should be able to apply defensive on ball pressure to make up for the lack of a lane clogging center.
If we get a wing player–he should be able to physically stand up to the type of SF you see in the east like LeBron, Hedu, & Pierce…kinda built like Marvin.
Side note, if we can get a shooter, it helps. I don’t care what position he plays. See Orlando for proof of that concept. I just hope we can find one that has an additional skill.
We get 2 shots at the draft, so I’m not overly worried. Just make sure Sund & Woody are on the same page so the guy gets a chance to play.
BWAF
Sautee
June 22nd, 2009
2:40 pm
Newkid,
about this: “Future success will come more forthrightly to those who look ahead, as opposed to those who look at what exists today or existed yesterday and assume tomorrow will be nothing more than a replication.”
You said a mouthful, bud. Wow.
If ONLY the BASG worked under that premise.
Astro Joe
June 22nd, 2009
2:40 pm
Chad Ford now has us taking Teague in 1st round and Marcus Thornton in 2nd round. And he has us choosing Teague over Maynor.
I really hope Sund does not select a scoring PG. We need a shooting PG, which is different from a scoring PG. Opposing teams can’t double Joe, Josh or Al with their PG if our PG is a tremendous shooter. But if our PG has to dribble in the lane and try to score over a big (or two), well, the opposing team will double our hot scorer all game long.
2009 NBA Draft - Page 55 - Operation Sports Forums
June 22nd, 2009
2:42 pm
[...] old man was.. Not by a long shot. An another note.. Hansbrough had a good workout with the Hawks. Sekou Smith, AJC: “The reviews were unanimous. On 10-point scale, Tyler Hansbrough’s Sunday morning workout for the [...]
Ramon
June 22nd, 2009
2:42 pm
Big Ray, the thing I think that Ellington brings that Gardner doesn’t is the caliber that he was coached. I mean even spending this long in the league, chances are Ellington has probably still been coached better than Gardner has to this day. And that is before he starts working with Mark Price or whatever shooting coach. The way he carry himself is also something that Gardner doesn’t bring. He continues with the expectations of winning that Horford brought along. And the difference between him and Marvin, is that he was actually one of the leaders on his team, unlike Williams. I just look at him, and at worst see a poor man’s Dale Ellis.
Nookah
June 22nd, 2009
2:45 pm
Big Ray, I have enjoyed all your posts and your very inciteful comments. I am a little terrified to be honest when I think of the track record of the Hawks Scouting crew and as if we needed it we are hit with the double whammy of having Ric Sund who has a less than stellar track record of drafting good players. Then you combine that with Woody’s penchant for sitting rookies and not developing them. I am indeed very very petrified as a Hawks’ fan and keep asking myself the question, how will we handle draft day? I await Thursday with bated breath and I must be honest, I am not optimisitc.
I tend to agree with you however, it may be best we get a proven young PG such as Jack or Sessions, but we still have issues and I am not sure they will be addressed with this current management and HC in place. I see franchises like the Bulls, the Heat and the Bobcats getting better. I am a little worried thet we will take a few steps back this year. I am really hoping and praying my thoughts are way off.
BIg Ray, Sekou, anyone, please allay my fears if anyone can.
Go Hawks!!!
Nuff respect everytime!!!!
A Tribe Called Quest
June 22nd, 2009
2:46 pm
We might as well trade away all picks this year. After 5 years of turmoil with Billy Knight’s egregious drafting mistakes, I don’t feel like getting a Robert Swift or Sene with the 19th overall pick. Trade this pick with the skinny lard Speedy Claxton and get some more role players in here
2009 NBA Draft - Page 56 - Operation Sports Forums
June 22nd, 2009
2:47 pm
[...] old man was.. Not by a long shot. An another note.. Hansbrough had a good workout with the Hawks. Sekou Smith, AJC: “The reviews were unanimous. On 10-point scale, Tyler Hansbrough’s Sunday morning workout for the [...]
Big Ray
June 22nd, 2009
2:49 pm
O’brien,
I remember that game quite well. It showed me something. To so many others, it was merely “garbage time.”
Astro Joe,
I agree with a lot of what you said in your 1:36 post. Rip was a willing part/member of a team defense concept. Wish we had more willing parts, and that might help the defensive concept. As for Douglas, you are right, I think. I knew what you meant by the combination of skill and the desire and/or fearlessness. My point was that there does not seem to be a premium on that in Atlanta. I wasn’t talking as much about the front office as I was about the guys who wear the jerseys, though I did mention Mario (lack of skills) and Josh (lack of fundamentals and focus) as deviations, and the unique flaws that they have.
No, that problem exists on the roster, and it’s not something Woody or any other coach can make his players be, though he can inspire and encourage it to a degree. I doubt that the issue is his own lack of intensity or drive.
As for Ellington vs. Gardner, that’s what most teams are going to do: value a draft prospect like Ellington over a young free agent pickup like Gardner. I wouldn’t know the percentages, but I’m betting that the first round picks turn out better than the FA pickups, more often than not. My point of comparing those two is whether or not the coaching staff sees more in a guy like Ellington as a draft pick, than they do in a guy who has spent a year in their system. Ellington certainly came from a better and more famous program than Gardner did, and has more hype. But whether or not he does more on the floor for this team is another story.
I wouldn’t bet against him, but I wouldn’t bet the farm ON him. Of course, that’s the beauty of the #19 pick. You’re not betting the farm….
Jhan,
Agreed on many fronts. Nevertheless, it’s not as simple as all that. The front office can plan to do whatever they wish, but that does not mean their plans come to fruition. Sund said he planned on keeping Childress. Billy planned on netting us Sam Cassell. Neither happened, as we don’t have Chill, and we ended up paying Speedy for nothing.
Sund might say “best player available” but we all know that’s a very vanilla statement. “Best player that can help us” is more specific. Or perhaps, “best player to have if our free agent Plan A, Plan B, or even Plan C doesn’t work out” is possibly even more specific. Of course, I have no idea if they’re thinking like that, but I figure it’s worth considering.
No, you don’t ideally want to address your rotation issues via the draft (sometimes not even in the lottery), but maybe it suffices as Plan D or Plan E.
cp
June 22nd, 2009
2:50 pm
lol ray I see you are on fire today..
Someone tell me if Ellington can create off the dribble and defend. If not then we should pass on him. Like it has been stated, we don’t run guys off of screens here and that is what he needs. I don’t want another perimeter player who cant defend. We have enough of those as it is. That’s why guys were getting in foul trouble because they had to come over and try to defend a guy who had a opening to the lane. Another thing is last year what hurt us is that guys started settling for jumpers way too often instead of driving. So if Ellington cant create off the dribble or defend pass on the kid. If T Will or Teague is there take either one. T Will has the length and strength to guard bigger guys, has a good handle, good passer, and rebounds well for his position. Meeks, Hudson, Douglas, Danny Green, or Tyrese Rice would be a nice pick up in the second round. I would not have a problem with either guy. Sam Young and Derrick Brown are my sleepers in this draft.
A Tribe Called Quest
June 22nd, 2009
2:53 pm
Sheldy made way too much in his 3 seasons so far, so if we could sign him for Randolph Morris money, I’d do it. I’m sure he wants to be close to his expecting wife Candace in Cali though. Shelden, while being a true stiff, still averaged about 10 & 5 over 30 mpg (rough estimate based on minutes he played) and is probably better than Solomon Jones
Big Ray
June 22nd, 2009
3:11 pm
Ramon,
That was very well-stated, and makes me feel better about Ellington all the way around.
Nookah,
Fear not. This is Sund’s first rodeo with the Hawks as far as the draft goes. Let’s see what happens first, and then be scared later if he screws the pooch.
Mike is back
June 22nd, 2009
3:15 pm
Big Ray, loved yo comment about coaching…that was funny as He11.lol
To answer your question:
If Woody (and his players) can’t run a solid screen for his two favorite players in the whole wide world (Joe and Bibby), then what rookie would rate such treatment, or even influence what HASN’T been done in the past 5 years?
AL did…his game was so strong…Woody had to make room for him in his rotation. Ellington has the talent to do the same. I think one of biggest problem with screens for the Hawks is lack of imagination on offense. When 90% of your plays are design for two players…guys are not going to be that motivated to set screens.
In this weak draft…Ellington would be a safe pick. The Hawks made it to the second round in the playoff…maybe that changes Chill or Anderson’s mind…u never know. This Hansbrough story is starting to eerily sound like Sheldon…the players are different…but the story line is the same…Jerry Sloan system is better suited for Hansbrough. He would languish in Woody’s system to say the lease. You get instant energy in Solo…but Woody seldom uses him. Once Hansbrough gets dunked on ala RandMo…look out DNPs…Here he comes.
Siler names has been mentioned in some draft discussions. In keeping with Sekou theme about trading out…instead of moving up…that sounds like a recipe for success. Trade down to get a guy like Siler and pick-up an extra pick. You should easily be able to get a PG in the second round.
Big Ray
June 22nd, 2009
3:24 pm
Quest,
Give Solomon 30 mpg and I guarantee you he will impress you more than Sheldon. Not only that, but Candace might have re-thought that fateful night when ol’ Shellhead came around with the ring….(yeah, I know, that was wrong as hell)…LOL….
CP,
Yeah, I’m in one of my moods, lol. Tell you what. I was talking to Sautee on the phone a few minutes ago, and he brought up a really good point. Wayne Ellington’s role did not involve him creating his own shot, or going after it off the dribble. That was Lawson’s role. So does Ellington have the ability to do it? It’s possible that he is like many draft prospects that play on great teams, where roles are well-defined and disciplined, where the coach knows how to use the players to have the best chance at winning it all….in other words, he may have the ability, and we just don’t know it. Or, he may have the ability to develop that part of his game. One thing is known for sure- he was well-coached.
I.MUS WRITE- INTERNATIONAL MAN OF MYSTERY
June 22nd, 2009
3:27 pm
My gawd…… Stop with this Tyler Hansborough garbage. First Sekou cant report anything that he’s seen now he wants us to sip his tainted kool-aid and believe Psycho T is a beast. Then there’s others who want to debate hieght and standing reach…STOP THIS BS…….. Why draft this guy -another dam PF when there are tons of capeable Pg’s in this draft……. Billy Knight mus be sumwhere smiling………
Seriously tho is Tyler H gonna be anything close to Matt Harpring-probably not ……… He has hearty,,he’s a hard worker, he’s this he’s that….Who the hell cares -if we draft him its gonna be a mistake. when and where will he get time at the 3 at the 4 at C…….
Big Ray
June 22nd, 2009
3:29 pm
Mike,
Thanks! I aim to please, even if it’s myself that I’m pleasing sometimes, LOL!
A pg in the second round? Don’t know how good of an idea that is, considering it will be like the 46th pick or something. I don’t know, your guess is as good as mine.
On Ellington: I like the guy. It would be nice if his game is as strong, and fits as well as Horford’s did. But then, we were in dire need at the position, which helped Horford get on the practice floor. With old hands like JJ, possibly Bibby, possibly Flip, and Marvin…does Ellington have the same chance?
Not arguing, just asking. Not taking away from Horford at all, as I LOVE his game, but he didn’t have much to overcome on this roster. Zaza was the best we had. Here’s to hoping for similar success (but not similar misuse) as Horford had, for Ellington if we get him.