Let the workouts begin
The Hawks will get a closer look at Wake Forest's Jeff Teague (left) and North Carolina's Wayne Ellington this week. The Hawks are scheduled to host workouts at Philips Arena today through the weekend with the June 25 NBA draft just days away.
HAWKSVILLE - After weeks of relative silence on the Hawks’ workout front, things are going to kick up dramatically today and through the weekend.
The Hawks have a full slate of workouts scheduled at Philips Arena, with players of all shapes and sizes ready to showcase themselves for the team with the 19th pick in the June 25 draft.
Pittsburgh’s DeJuan Blair and Gonzaga’s Josh Heytvelt are scheduled to kick off the festivities this morning at Philips Arena.
They’ll be followed Thursday by a scheduled monster workout crew that includes Ohio State’s BJ Mullens, Georgetown’s DaJuan Summers, Wake Forest’s Jeff Teague, Georgia Tech’s Lewis Clinch, Xavier’s Derrick Brown, Jonesboro’s own and Florida State star Toney Douglas, and Augusta State big man Garret Siler.
Friday’s scheduled slate includes North Carolina guard Wayne Ellington, VCU’s Eric Maynor, Missouri’s DeMarre Carroll, LSU’s Garrett Temple and Marquette’s Wes Matthews. Maynor was initially listed as a Thursday visitor, along with Teague, whose plans have apparently changed as well. From what I’ve learned today (this is an in-blog update from 1:18 on Thursday afternoon) Teague is scheduled to attend Friday’s session as well.
The workouts will continue into the weekend, with the Hawks scheduled to get a closer look North Carolina’s Tyler Hansbrough and former Stephenson and Georgia Tech standout Alade Aminu on Sunday.
Before you start wondering why guys like Ty Lawson and others aren’t on this workout list, keep in mind that the Hawks have spent every waking moment of basically the last month traveling the country (and in some instances the globe) watching draft workouts and combines and Eurocamp sessions.
I can’t imagine there’s a guy that will be drafted that they haven’t seen already. These workouts here simply offer them another chance to evaluate players they’ve already seen a zillion times already. It also gives them a chance to bring them in to their own facility, see how they respond to the Hawks’ specific drills and questioning and really try and dig into their mettle and competitive nature.
The Hawks aren’t only working out players that they are considering with the 19th pick, they’ve also got the 49th pick in next week’s draft, so they’ve been evaluating and will continue to evaluate players for that pick as well.
Whatever happens, it should prove to be an interesting few days, to say the least.
UPDATE: Sat quietly on the side of the court during the morning workout (the Hawks were gracious enough to allow me in, provided I don’t get into specifics about the workout). Honestly, there isn’t much to be gleaned from these workouts, particularly this late in the game. We’re within a week of the draft. These players have to be a bit exhausted from the process. Heytvelt told me that when it’s all over he’ll have worked out for 15 different teams.
A two-man session doesn’t allow the players the range to do a whole lot other than drills. There was a good pace to it and both guys seemed to perform well. I’m expecting a little more action tomorrow morning, though I was disappointed to learn this afternoon that Teague had been removed from the list of players expected in. I wanted to see he and Maynor in the same workout. It seems we will get to see Maynor (Friday), along with Ellington (who I’ve heard good things about from people who watched him work in Chicago at the pre-draft camp).
Stay tuned to see how things progress through the weekend.
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396 comments Add your comment
Ric Roc
June 17th, 2009
9:53 am
What’s frustrating is that a team like the Cavs is making a real push to win today by attempting to add Shaq, while we are placing our hopes in draft picks…we don’t even know if we’ll bring our own guys back…
Kevin
June 17th, 2009
9:55 am
Draft Maynor!
Steve
June 17th, 2009
9:57 am
Sekou – I had a chat with a buddy of mine last night, and I said I’d deal JJ and our 1st round pick for a shot at Thabeet. He said I was nuts (mostly because he thinks Thabeet is uncoordinated and wasn’t that good at Uconn). That said, I think the opportunity to score a long big doesn’t come around often, so I’d take the chance – not sure if any team in the top 5 would be willing to deal though.
Whatcha think?
Steve
June 17th, 2009
9:58 am
Ric Roc –
You know what else? I was thinking the other day – I would argue that nearly all of the playoff teams (minus the bottom 4 in the east) had 3 players (per team) better than the Hawks 2nd best player. When is the organization going to bring some big talent to Atlanta and try and beat the best?
Melvin
June 17th, 2009
10:04 am
Steve,
I agree with your friend. I watch Thabeet many times and he’s not impressive at all.
I think Dejuan Summers will be the sleeper of this draft. 6-8/9 guy that can play on the wing and the post. He would be a good backup to Marvin off the bench. However, taking him at #19 may be a reach considering many draft experts/guru’s have him going near the bottom of the 1st rnd or early 2nd…
UGA
June 17th, 2009
10:05 am
What IF:
Phoenix would send us Amare Stoudimire straight up for Josh Smith, (don’t know if I would agree or not as a Hawk)- would you do it??
Daniel
June 17th, 2009
10:05 am
Steve-
Thabeet is not worth that move.
I am interested in where Toney Douglas may go. Any chance he drops into the second round. He is a reach at 19 but a STEAL at 49. I would love to have a guy like that on this team.
Daniel
June 17th, 2009
10:07 am
UGA- I would not touch that move with a 10 foot pole. Why would you want an older, more injured, equally malcontented player for Josh? The only reasonable move I can see with Josh would be Bosh, and that would only work if Bosh were willing to resign here.
jhan
June 17th, 2009
10:09 am
Ric Roc – should the Hawks just ignore the players in the draft? Isn’t the draft where you fill in your roster with good but inexpensive players? How about guys that are starters in this league that were drafted in the lower 1st round & 2nd round? Don’t you want the Hawks to thoroughly evaluate every option available to make this team better?
UGA
June 17th, 2009
10:09 am
I still say keep everyone (Bibby, Flip, ZaZa and Marvin. Sign a scoring PF (Charlie V/McDyess/Drew Gooden) and a backup PG (Sessions/Felton/Jack/CJ Watson).
UGA
June 17th, 2009
10:14 am
I agree with Bosh, I’m not too sure about Amare.
mountain_jim
June 17th, 2009
10:27 am
How much input will Sund allow Woody into these selections I wonder? And I still want to know who had to have Shellhead at 5 – Woody or Billy?
Hoops
June 17th, 2009
10:39 am
There is no way I would trade Josh for Thabeet! I would not trade him for Griffin. If we trade Josh, it must be big! Bosh, yes! M. Gasol and their #2 pick for Josh, yes! We need a 5 and a PG. I think we can sign Sessions for the PG. If we trade Josh, we must get a starting 5 out of it!!!
clint
June 17th, 2009
10:42 am
without a point guard signed (sorry acie law is not a pg, much like salim wasnt) ty lawson is the pick, let him slip and slide all the way down to 19 just like he slided all the way to the national championship. Speed is what we need at the point and he should start after a full season or two.
Ced
June 17th, 2009
10:49 am
The Hawks should not make ANY irrational trades to move up in this draft. There just isn’t anyone available this year that warrants us trading our best guys to move up. Now a trade for future picks or a trade for young pieces, that can play, and already in the league wouldn’t be a bad move. We better not trade Josh though. He did a great job in the playoffs, he had his bad moments but they were no worse than Joe’s or Al’s, and showed he can get even better. Josh deserves more loyalty and more patience. I hate hearing that we are in discussions about trading our most DYNAMIC player because he had a couple of bad moments in a horrible series for his team, a series in which he was the most productive throughout
O'brien
June 17th, 2009
10:50 am
Sekou,
You have said that Hawksville is split on Acie. if they draft a PG with the 19th pick, does that mean that Acie is out of here, or is it possible thay they will keep both of them, and possibly end up with 4 PG’s (Starter, Flip, Acie, 19th pick)?
glw
June 17th, 2009
10:51 am
UGA,
Its a tough call, Bosh is more adept offensively than Josh, but not sure about the defense, and would have to be pretty sure I could resign him long term.
Amare, I think is a better fit when you think of the offense in the context of Joe and or Bibby, having Amare who is a beast on the inside, would make our shooters more effective.
Honestly, I would just prefer to keep Josh, I would like to have Bosh or Stoudamire to go with him, and would prefer moving Big AL instead.
smartguy
June 17th, 2009
10:52 am
Steve, I said that same thing a few weeks ago. I am in complete agreement with you. Even if its not Thabeet, I would still trade Joe, and of course I would fire Woody.
Hawks73
June 17th, 2009
10:53 am
I agree that the Hawks should make every attempt at keeping Bibby, Flip, ZaZa, & even Marvin. They should strongly consider what they could get for JJ, and if it’s enough return value make a deal. Marvin is a lesser version of JJ but could fill that role in time. The ownership group has proven to be very cheap with the salary cap, so don’t expect too much in the way of free agent signings.
bigdave
June 17th, 2009
10:53 am
Sautee….
maybe statistically… but post skill?
Sautee
June 17th, 2009
10:53 am
I posted this on the old blog before I knew we had switched over, so I beg your pardon for the redundancy.
big dave,
about this: “however, i do look at Al and his skill relative to other bigs who were highly touted coming out of college; Emeka, Bogut, Lamarcus… all showed growth, progression, maturation in their game year to year (1st to 2nd even)… like i said, its as if his offensive game has regressed”
OK, I’ll give you Aldridge, but Okafor and Bogut?
Okafor’s scoring went DOWN in his second year, back up the next, and has gone DOWN since. And I’d guess he’s the third option on offense.
Bogut after 4 years is averaging 11.9 and 8.7 and he’s either the second or third option on offense. (Second while Redd was hurt) Horford’s looking pretty comparable at 10.8 and 9.5
Al is at best the 5th option (and with the minutes Flip played, he’s more like the 6th option) and yet in his second season he RAISED his scoring average with FEWER fga / gm than the year before. He also cut his turnovers and raised his assists, AND his FG %. That’s offensive progression, even if we’d all like more.
I was like you and expected a bigger bump from his offense. But you CANNOT deny that he had fewer chances with the ball than all of the players you compared him to.
Now, we can go round and round as to WHY he’s the 5th or 6th option, but it’s undeniable that he had fewer chances.
Khao$
June 17th, 2009
11:05 am
Honestly, it’s hard for me to get hyped about the draft #1 because of where we are picking and #2 Sund history with drafts may be worse than Billy Knight’s. I still don’t trust Rick Sund.
Sautee
June 17th, 2009
11:21 am
big dave,
Post skill…. is that something the best bloggers aspire to?
Yeah, I KNOW what you are saying, but look at where they all came from.
At Texas LA was “the man”
At UConn, Okafor was the second option after Ben Gordon. Bogut was 1st option at Utah.
On the other hand, Horford played on a team that had 5 double figure scorers in the starting lineup. He was asked to do just what he does here. Rebound, play good D and post up on occasion. I still say force feed him the ball and he will blossom. Yes, he looks wooden at times. So how does he acquire some fluidity? Not by ignoring him, that’s for sure.
Also, as I posted to Astro Joe last week, Horford could get us some easy points if we took advantage of his hustling down court. And that wouldn’t take a big bump in post skill, just an attitude change to push the ball.
HawkKingBibby
June 17th, 2009
11:49 am
DERRICK BROWN DERRICK BROWN DERRICK BROWN
darrell starks
June 17th, 2009
12:18 pm
Trade the pick im tired of being call the youngest team in the nba no more excuse.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
June 17th, 2009
12:23 pm
The 19th pick horford and marvin for bosh.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!
terrell barron
June 17th, 2009
1:45 pm
I’m thinking it was Woody who wanted Shellhead, not BK. Billy likes long and athletic guys. (Chills,Smith,Diaw,etc.) Just doesn’t seem like a pick he would make. And I hope Mullens doesn’t come in here and light it up playing against HIS SELF like Marvin Williams did. Nique will probably wet his pants again. How can you evaluate a player in non game situations? No to BJ Mullens! Nigue and Woody, stay out of the war room. PLEASE! I’d rather take my chances with Sund’s no drafting azz.
richbrave
June 17th, 2009
2:10 pm
doc:
Have you read BRADLEY’s column on CARON BUTLER to the WIZ for MARVIN WILLIAMS?
mountain_jim
June 17th, 2009
2:32 pm
Terrell I agree that BK probably let Woody have his way on Shellhead – BK’s worst ever pick imho… probably one of the reasons he wanted Woody fired several times.
doc
June 17th, 2009
2:32 pm
rich, no i havent but that would be fine with me, do you want marvin?
Dennis
June 17th, 2009
2:38 pm
I’d be happy with any of the UNC guys. They just know how to play basketball over there. Roy Williams runs a very NBA-like conditioning program because they play smart run and gun basketball (the secondary break) so you know they’ll be NBA-ready bodies. Ellington has the tools to be one of the better shooters in the NBA. Lawson has developed his shooting every year in college and Hansbrough has developed a nice mid-range jumper as well. Lawson is one of the best at taking care of the ball and his compact body is great around the rim, which is really impressive in their kind of offense. Ellington has great catch and shooting ability but he has a nice handle too which tells me he could develop a shot off the dribble too. And he’s sneaky athletic. So is Hansbrough, who is renowned for his workout discipline. You can’t go wrong with any three of these guys. Danny Green would a great pick in the 2nd round also. He has great range and could be an elite defender.
Dennis
June 17th, 2009
2:46 pm
Alade Aminu would be a very Billy Knight type of pick. I’d stay away from anyone that’s been around Paul Hewitt for that long. Luckily for Thad Young and Bosh, they got away early.
terrell barron
June 17th, 2009
2:58 pm
Just heard another Josh Smith rumor for the millionth time. lol!! Smith and Acie Law to GS for Monte Ellis and Brandon Wright. Thoughts?
Sautee
June 17th, 2009
3:18 pm
tb,
If we’re shipping Josh to GS I want Biedrens. Period.
richbrave
June 17th, 2009
3:24 pm
doc:
Only under the circumstancers I outlined earlier.
Melvin
June 17th, 2009
3:26 pm
Terrell,
Considering the Hawks resign Bibby and Flip and you know Joe is going to play a ton of mins in the backcourt as well. Who would be the odd man out if the Hawks acquire Monte? That’s almost 35-40 mil spent in the backcourt alone. I think some of that money could be better spent elsewhere. And how would replacing Brandon with Josh at the 4 be an improvement???
Clyde
June 17th, 2009
3:30 pm
Didn’t they draft Sheldon Williams without bringing him in for a workout?
Clyde
June 17th, 2009
3:35 pm
Thabeet might not be impressive to yall but he’s just what this team needs. And that’s a defensive minded center that can block shots. If Horford can’t do it lets bring in someone else to try and get the job done.
O'brien
June 17th, 2009
3:37 pm
tb,
No way I acquire Monte Ellis. His contract is too rich. And Brandon has too much to learn. Now if we could get Biedrins and Brandon for Josh and the 19th pick maybe, that’s one to think about.
detrain
June 17th, 2009
4:01 pm
After last year’s playoff series performace against Boston, Josh and Al have to be untouchable. They possess the fight/energy we need.
My observation tells me that the hawks team has a shooting pecking order. Instruct Marvin to shoot more and he will shoot with a better precentage than anyone on the team. Marvin can average 20 pts a game.
The best use of the PG allotment is to go after Sessions, because Bibby want come cheap enough. There is enough cap space to acquire Session and Charlie V.
Joe is our only All-star, but his greatest value is in a trade with NY or NJ. they need a chip to lure another all-star next year. Joe will leave at the end of next year. NY can offer Q. Rich, David Lee and the #8 pick. Move Lee and a lesser player to obtain Thabeet in the draft. We still have experience in Q Rich. at shooting guard. We have added debth; at center (shot blocking/rebounding), backcourt guard with the 8th pick (pt. or shooting) and a young Joe with the 19th pick (Marcus Thornton).
The team is better and faster.
rms
June 17th, 2009
4:40 pm
Based on the Hawks draft history I am not all impressed just because they got guys working out in their gym and are traveling all over looking at different players. Someone obviously aint listening or dropped the ball when it comes to selecting who to draft because otherwise we wouldnt have blown so many obvious picks in the past. I know other teams mess up too its just for a team that has been losing for so long and deep playoff history of championship trophy a missed draft pick can cause your team a title.
cp
June 17th, 2009
4:58 pm
Yea I like Derrick Brown too. I would trade down to get him though and try to add another second round pick. I think it will be some nice talent in the second round. Seeing how we are cheap I’m guessing they would love to add inexpensive players to the roster. Ive been on the Clark, Terrance Williams, and Sam Young bandwagon for a minute now. If Clark and Williams are gone trade down and get Derrick Brown. I don’t like Mullens at all. He is raw and will need time but for some reason we never send guys to the NBDL which is where he will need to be to get some pt and experience. I forgot about Teague. I would take him if Clark and Williams are off the board. SO let me change it, Derrick Brown only if Clark, Williams, and Teague are off the board.
JustAThought
June 17th, 2009
4:59 pm
The NBA draft and Ric Sund equals…………NOTHING!
E43
June 17th, 2009
5:07 pm
we need a center and a point but the problem is. there are too many rotational and trust issues with the hawks. yes we can live with some but we cant have 1st 2nd and 3rd string rotational issues. were going to draft young catz that will need to concentrate on their own possition.
1st string
power forward playing center. drafting a center keeps the same issues or forces someone out the line up. joe overplaying minutes.
2nd tring
flip murray is listed as joes back up but he is also the 2nd string point guard. he will not want to come back and play behind a rookie and any rookie we draft may have to play behing him and we have another young pg being wasted out there.
3rd string
speedy, was a talented quick player but doesnt do much now.
this will be an interesting summer. mr sund has very many crucial decisions to make and the salary cap wont help much oh and j chill is a no go if flip murray signs first+ vice versa
terrell barron
June 17th, 2009
5:16 pm
Replace JJ with Q-Rich??? lol!!
terrell barron
June 17th, 2009
5:18 pm
NBA Draft combine at 7:30 on NBA TV.
terrell barron
June 17th, 2009
5:19 pm
Damn, the Hawks just selected Rumeal Robinson. Oh, that’s the 93 draft there showing at the moment. Thank Goodness. lol!!!
terrell barron
June 17th, 2009
5:34 pm
I’m sure we’d let Bibby go if we were to make that trade for Monte. And Brandon Wright might not be ready yet, but he sure did look good against us last year. He gave us fits. But I agree, Biedreins and Wright for Smith and 19 would be a lot better. Not sure if I’d do that either, but I’d definitely consider it. Depends on who we could get at 19.
Clyde
June 17th, 2009
5:36 pm
Fire Woody and Draft Thabet. Lets send Joe to a contender because in all reality he’s not going to win a championship here. Joe needs to play for a team that has a goal of winning a championship each year. Our goal was getting out of the first round this year and next year will be getting out of the second. Joe deserves better.
Lets send Joe and Horford to Memphis for Gay and the second pick.
Clyde
June 17th, 2009
5:37 pm
And yes Memphis can contend for a championship next year!!
Big Ray
June 17th, 2009
5:40 pm
Who cares about these workouts?
There are no good players in this year’s draft besides the 12 year old Rubio and Griffin who will be taken 1st. There’s not 1 superstar potential player in this draft.
We want to hear trade rumors!
Tyger
June 17th, 2009
5:50 pm
1. Let Bibby Walk – Flip outplayed him at 1/10th his salary.
2. Re-sign Marvin Williams – stop wasting top draft picks, it makes us look stupid.
3. Re-sign Flip, ZaZa, Solo – they deserve it and there’s not better in the free market.
4. Sign Drew Gooden – big bruiser we need to lock down paint.
5. AC Law is the PG – again stop wasting top draft picks, you look stupid. What makes anyone think the #19 PG is better than the #11 PG with 3 yrs experience? Again, you look stupid.
6. Draft Ellison or Thornton #19 and Garret Siles #49 – Woody wont play them anyway.
7. Bring back BK before Sund turns us into the Oklahoma Thunder.
8. Where’s Lenny Wilkens, the winningest coach in NBA history?
terrell barron
June 17th, 2009
5:51 pm
Josh Smith cant play the 3, but Marvin can play the 4. Who’s expendable? Just a thought.
terrell barron
June 17th, 2009
6:42 pm
Clyde, if we get Gay, what do we do with Marvin?
terrell barron
June 17th, 2009
6:42 pm
Move him to the 2.
Melvin
June 17th, 2009
6:54 pm
Hmmm, Chad Ford revised part of his statement on yesterday. I think even he doesn’t see the logic in his trade rumor…
“Brookes (Washington, DC)
What do you expect to be the asking price for Josh Smith?
Chad Ford
A little cap relief so they can sign all of their other free agents like Marvin Williams, Mike Bibby, Zaza Pachulia, Josh Childress and Ronald Murray.The problem is that teams don’t want to pay his trade kicker which is $7.2 million (not the $6 million I reported yesterday)”
Melvin
June 17th, 2009
7:02 pm
Big Ray,
You may enjoy this Chad Ford response…
“Joe (MD)
Who is the biggest sleeper in the draft and who will be the biggest bust?
Chad Ford
Maybe Earl Clark. He has the talent to be very, very, very good. People are understandably worried about his work ethic, but if he matures and gets it, he could be terrific.”
Hawk n the Ham
June 17th, 2009
7:23 pm
Stop it with the Josh Smith rumors. If I’m not mistaken he was the only Hawk in the playoffs who was a consitant top scorer for the birds and the vocal leader as well.
Sign and trade Marvin along with Big Al for Bosh. Keep Flip, Mo Evans, and Zaza.
With the addition of Bosh, the Hawks would have one of the best frontcourts with Bosh, Smoothe, & Evans.
Hoops
June 17th, 2009
7:47 pm
RE-THINK THE JOSH TRADE!!!
The 7.2M trade kicker on Josh’s contract means that he is not going anywhere! So how do we improve and keep Josh?
Josh has to play inside! He has no outside shot, but he is very athletic and can score inside against a PF. So, we need a center that can score from the outside. That will allow us to post up Josh and pull the other teams big man out. So, who has a trade idea for a center that can score from the perimeter?
darrell starks
June 17th, 2009
7:55 pm
HOOPS bosh like i say we need no more scrubs on this team or role player we need batman and robin and maybe we have robin in joe but no batman.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
terrell barron
June 17th, 2009
8:04 pm
Just saw Woody sitting on the sideline at the combine. Oh no, he’s influencing the pick. lol!
terrell barron
June 17th, 2009
8:09 pm
Hoops, we could just pick up Rasheed.
darrell starks
June 17th, 2009
8:09 pm
2009 CHAMPION KOBE AND PAUL GASOL
2008 CHAMPION ALLEN GARNETT AND PIERCE
2007 CHAMPION PARKER DUNCAN AND GINOBILI
2006 CHAMPION D WAYDE AND SHAK
2005 CHAMPION PARKER DUNCAN AND GINOBILI
AND LIST GOES ON WE NEED A STAR PLAYER PERIOD.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
niremetal
June 17th, 2009
8:24 pm
Darrell,
Noticed that you stopped at…
2004 CHAMPION RIP CHAUNCEY WALLACES PRINCE
2003 CHAMPION DUNCAN…UH…STEPHEN JACKSON?
Hoops
June 17th, 2009
9:52 pm
terrell barron,
I read somewhere that Rasheed was demanding 8M per for a min. of 2 years. Do you think he is worth that much @ this stage in his career?
Astro Joe
June 17th, 2009
10:10 pm
The other reason tha Smith rumor was BS (especially in the context of the draft rumors) is that Smith’s is worth only half of his contract value until 7/1 (after the draft). So if we traded him prior to the draft, we get about $5M back in value. That means he would be traded for maybe 1 pick and either a guy on his rookie contract or a MLE-type vet (like James Posey as an example… no I’m not asking for Posey, just using him as an example of a MLE player). I truly cannot see the ASG doing that.
Now after the draft, all bets are off. But a $7.2M trade kicker certainly seems like a deal breaker for a slew of teams.
I’m glad to hear that Douglas will get a workout here at Philips. Also glad that the big man from Augusta will get a look. Too bad the Hawks aren’t likely to secure a dietician for the young man and send him to the NBDL. That would be the appropriate path for a late second round pick. NBA games are no place to attempt to develop big men projects (like RandMo) or the Augusta kid.
Astro Joe
June 17th, 2009
10:13 pm
So doc & Richbrave, do the Bravos need to hire an offensive coordinator? Their offense is far more anemic than the Hawks. Iso Joe is far better than iso Chipper. What a disappointment. I told y’all during the end of the Hawks season, enjoy, because it’s not as if Atlanta teams are standard guests in the post-season. Braves may be done by the end of July.
doc
June 17th, 2009
10:53 pm
astro as you know we briefly hit on the braves before they broke camp. i just couldnt get excited about them. still not and they made a huge mistake in giving chipper such a big contract when there is so little to spend. he plays the number of games you expect a catcher to play or less. though i was giddy at the time not keeping tex has hurt them and they should have found a way to throw a little caution to the wind budget wise as they killed their farm in the process.
fundamentals in the field arent there so it is a hard team to watch. persons to blame dont play the game, yup only have to look as far as colorado to see what coaching or managerial changes can do for a team this year, maybe time to try it here, anyone want torre? uh i do remember you feeling a bit positive when we last spoke, guess you have changed your mind.
i know many including you aj and ray will enjoy this comment: When asked about the youth and inexperience on defense, he said, “I can tell you that we as a staff will never be afraid to play our young players. man dimetrof doesnt miss anything when it comes to comments, fresh and up front. only wish we could get something so refreshing here for our team:
goes on to say he and smith are on the same page. never hear that stuff from the basg on down.
niremetal
June 17th, 2009
11:31 pm
Anyone read Schultz’s latest proposal? It is quite possibly the worst idea ever. I don’t simply mean the worst trade proposal ever. I mean the worst idea that we, as a human race, have ever created.
richbrave
June 17th, 2009
11:34 pm
Astro Joe:
Absolutely not JOE, the BRAVES hitters are collectively offensive enough already. No need to coordinate when they’re all on the same page. Ba-da boom!!!!
Samuel
June 17th, 2009
11:35 pm
Not to change the subject but it was so ironic that on Sunday I pick up the paper and see none other than the Chipster and his “Good Ole” Buddies posing for a picture along with “Bambie”(who wouldn’t hurt a flee) after they just murdered him.
Turn over a couple of pages and “Public Enemy #1″, aka “The Boogie Man”, aka MV7 is begging for an opportunity to make a living after serving a year in the worst prison in the country for financing some “killing machines” doing what they do best.
Coincidence, I don’t think so.
richbrave
June 17th, 2009
11:39 pm
SAMUEL:
You know SAM, I been wondering if that’s what’s ailing GARRETT ANDERSON. just sayin’.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 18th, 2009
12:07 am
My personal opinion is that workouts can do a lot more to distort your opinion of a prospect than they can to clarify it. I don’t see what you can really gain from a workout that you can’t gain from watching them play actual basketball, no matter at what level. There is some relevance to wingspan, height, etc. but if that is making or breaking the decision to draft a player for a GM, that team is probably not going to be successful, in my opinion.
To Tyler from the previous blog: I don’t “trash” Euros as much as I simply don’t buy into the hype year in and year out for every foreign prospect who enters the league. Check the post niremetal wrote in response to me on the previous blog. He has a pretty interesting and well thought out theory.
Samuel
June 18th, 2009
12:07 am
Fells on defense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqwSbKW8UTU&feature=related
Najeh Davenpoop
June 18th, 2009
12:32 am
Co-sign Samuel at 11:35 PM. To the fullest.
King Beef
June 18th, 2009
12:46 am
This is the real truth. Mike Woodson has had heated arguments with Antoine Walker, Tony Delk, Anthony Johnson, Boris Diaw, Salim, Acie, Marvin, Childress, Shelden, Jon Barry, Zaza, Mo Evans and Flip. Some of them almost became physical. Some of the players also said they didn’t want to play for him. Yet the only person you hear about is Josh Smith. He is allegedly hard to coach. Funny, the common denominator seems to be Mike Woodson. Sekou, please respond to this and tell me I am lying.
Mike is back
June 18th, 2009
1:12 am
The best move for the Hawks is to trade JJ to Wash for Butler and McGhee and switch first round picks. This all but assures that Woody will have to revamp his offense. I would not trade Josh or Marvin…they both can play three positions. Who else on the Hawks squad can do that? When AI was traded to Denver, everyone thought that Philly would be in a four or five year rebuilding period before they would be relevant in the league again…funny thing happen…after AI left, the ball started flowing and everyone was involved in the offense…they started playing up-tempo ball…well you know the rest.
I think Derrick Rose will make some teams gamble on PGs…but in reality all of the PGs in this year drafts are 2nd round picks save for Curry and maybe Lawson. I don’t see any PG falling to 19th that Woody would actually play…so why waste another 1st round pick. DeJuan Blair can give us what Big Baby gives Boston…a wide body to play in the pivot. If not Blair, than take the best available Big with the most upsides. The Hawks have a well-documented history of being much maligned when it comes to PGs.
I would go with Mullens , Blair, or Josh Heytvelt…they all carry a high degree of risk…but at the 19th you can live with those picks just as much as you could with the aforementioned PGs. I think Sund is fully aware of Woody disdain for young pgs. Look at the misery Acie has endured…enough is enough. Start drafting Big bodies that can help out in the pivot. Look at Gortat…he’s no dynamo…but he can play basketball…you wouldn’t know it based on his physique. Draft the best Big available and develop him.
If you are going to go with the best available player at 19th than go with Sam Young if he is still on the board, he reminds me of Al Thornton of the Clippers…but he can shoot the 3. He’s a huge sleeper in this year draft and a tremendous talent. Unfortunately, for the Hawks they are stacked at the SF position…that’s why I say go with the best Big with the most upsides. No more PGs during Woody’s tenure pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mike is back
June 18th, 2009
1:23 am
I’m not a numbers guy…but I’m sure they would have to get another team involved to make the numbers work.
niremetal
June 18th, 2009
1:57 am
I would not trade Josh or Marvin…they both can play three positions. Who else on the Hawks squad can do that?
Um…first off, neither of them can play 3 positions. Josh can play PF. His perimeter game and lateral quickness aren’t good enough for him to be a consistent SF, but he can get by there in spurts. Marvin can play SF. His post game and upper body strength aren’t good enough for him to be a consistent PF, but he can can by there in spurts. I have NO clue what the third position for each would be. Marvin might be able to play a handful of minutes at the 2, but not many. We’ve seen Josh play a few minutes at C, but not many. Both of them are “combo forwards” that lean strongly toward one positions
In fact, the only guys on the Hawks who can (and, as it happens, do) play even two positions with relative ease are JJ (SG and SF), Horford (PF and C), and Flip (SG and PG). JJ is the only player on our roster with a significant amount of experience playing three different positions, thanks to his role as “backup PG” in Phoenix and the ill-conceived effort to make him a PG in ‘05 here.
So the statement you made makes very little sense to me…
Najeh Davenpoop
June 18th, 2009
2:41 am
It wouldn’t surprise me if someone has linked this already, but Lang Whitaker of Slam Magazine lays out in pretty clear detail why Josh Smith won’t be traded — at least not before free agency begins.
Ariose
June 18th, 2009
6:52 am
Sekou, Make sure to look at Ellingtons playmaking ability off the dribble. Please ignore his jumpshot. I’ve seen enough drills/practise footage of him to tell you that he rarely misses a jumpshot in practice or drills lol. It’s the other(JJ-esque) stuff that i’m concerned with.
Now if this were Gerald Henderson(who Bricks more than half the jumpers he talkes lol) i’d be concerned about looking at hisjumper closely lol.
newkid
June 18th, 2009
8:52 am
Yesterday Thomas Dimitroff said: “I can tell you that we as a staff will never be afraid to play our young players.”
Just sayin…
O'brien
June 18th, 2009
9:08 am
nire,
I’m with you. Schultz idea of trading for Rafer Alston makes no sense to me either.
Samuel
June 18th, 2009
9:17 am
Again,
I don’t watch much college basketball but I have been youtubing and watching these workouts.
I would have loved to see Blake Griffin but I didn’t. So i’ll go with the concensus that he’s the best available. I know one thing, he sure aint 6′10. If he is then A Daye is 7′. From what i’ve seen Derozen seems to be the best all around player. I also like James Johnson and Ellington.
BJ Mullens looks like another Chris Mihm. Don’t do it. Did I mention a SG/SF sleeper from Snannon, Mississippi who is 6′6″ with a 7′ wingspand, crazy athleticism, lockdown “D” and excellent range.
http://wolfpackhoops.blogspot.com/2009/05/catching-up-with-courtney.html
Astro Joe
June 18th, 2009
9:30 am
“I can tell you that we as a staff will never be afraid to play our young players.” Glad to hear it, because if they go with only the 8+ year vets, they won’t likely be able to put 22 players on the field.
O'brien
June 18th, 2009
9:34 am
Samuel,
BJ Mullens could be the next Aaron Gray, the 7 footer for the Bulls. And that’s not a good thing either. But teams always tend to reach for these bigs.
Like Sund did when he drafted Swift, Petro, and Sene.
Samuel
June 18th, 2009
9:57 am
Yea Joe,
Wish we had special teams in the NBA. Well, I guess they kinda do. Mario and R. Ivey was our special teams allstars.
It’s amazing how people here keep saying that Woody doesn’t like young players but ignore the fact that we have been among the youngest teams in the league for the past few years.
Speaking of Royal, I see where he walked away from 900k a year averaging 3 pts a game. He’s got balls don’t he. Sixers just holding him back, I guess.
doc
June 18th, 2009
11:24 am
newk i quoted it as well earlier, didnt highlight it enough. it speaks for itself doesnt it. they also talk about how the ar on the same page. i dont see that as “HAWK CULTURE” do you?
samuel, agree and have said it before that is all mario is, a sprinter that hits hard for kickoff and punt teams only. sounds like the kid from mississippi is the type of athlete we need, does he have any skills?
Mike is back
June 18th, 2009
11:32 am
Niremetal, I knew talking about my homeboy would stair you up…as long as he is wearing a Hawks uniform…that’s my guy. However, the fact is that both guys have easily played three positions for the Hawks with Woody’s 7, 8 and sometimes 6 men rotations. Josh at the SF, PF, and Center…Marvin at the SG, SF, and PF. I didn’t imply that they were the most dynamic players at all three positions…Chill was the other guy that logged significant minutes at three different positions…that’s why I would love to see Sund make a hard push at Chill and Andersen…I think that easily improves the Hawks for the upcoming season.
However, I will use the word Potential with a big P at this point of both players career. They are very much a work in progress. I would at the very lease do a one-year deal with Marvin and see if his Post game takes a bounce like his three point shooting did this season. If he can continue to shoot the three and improve on his post game…I dare anyone on this board to talk about trading him. I think Marvin could easily slid in the 2 or 3 as his games continues to develop…and with that wide frame…you can still stick in the 4 when needed.
I’m keeping Smoove, Marvin, and Al at this point in their career. I hate to sound repetitive…but like everyone stated earlier…unless you are getting a legit 5 that can contribute immediately that’s under a long term contract…than it’s just to big a crap shoot to make a deal cuz the numbers look good on paper. None of that one year opt out crap either like the deal the Braves got raked over by the Texas Rangers…that trade set the franchise back three or fours years…now the guy is fifty rich playing for the Yankee.
You know what you are going to get from JJ and Bibby so you can better access their value…so I can understand Woody’s reliance on those guys. I think Sund will take a pg with one of his picks to hedge against Bibby’s negotiations. That will probably provide most of the drama going into FA…save for the NBA draft.
I could have told u I didn’t have a clue…than that would have spoil all the fun. Heh heh!!!!!!!
newkid
June 18th, 2009
11:37 am
AJ, my earlier TD attribution was intended as yet another gentle and loving dig at Woodson’s sometimes reluctance to play rookies. But you know for all we make of that charge, he played Horford and Marvin early and often, didn’t he? Maybe this reluctance is more directed toward young backcourt players rather than youngsters in general.
But isn’t it refreshing to witness the goings on in today’s Falcons’ land (particularly as it relates to the clear thought and effective actions of the GM) as compared to the so often hapless Hawks?
Rod from College Park
June 18th, 2009
11:43 am
“Um…first off, neither of them can play 3 positions. Josh can play PF. His perimeter game and lateral quickness aren’t good enough for him to be a consistent SF, but he can get by there in spurts. Marvin can play SF. His post game and upper body strength aren’t good enough for him to be a consistent PF, but he can can by there in spurts. I have NO clue what the third position for each would be. Marvin might be able to play a handful of minutes at the 2, but not many. We’ve seen Josh play a few minutes at C, but not many. Both of them are “combo forwards” that lean strongly toward one positions
In fact, the only guys on the Hawks who can (and, as it happens, do) play even two positions with relative ease are JJ (SG and SF), Horford (PF and C), and Flip (SG and PG). JJ is the only player on our roster with a significant amount of experience playing three different positions, thanks to his role as “backup PG” in Phoenix and the ill-conceived effort to make him a PG in ‘05 here.
So the statement you made makes very little sense to me…”
First thing you said basketball wise that shows me you might understand the game. Marvin can only play the 3 and occasionally the 2. He can’t guard any legit 4 in the league. Josh can play both forward spots (4 better than the 3) and he can defend some centers. He used to defend Okafor, Gasol, Wallace…… He is much more versatile defensively than Marvin is. The most versitile player is probably Joe who logs minutes at the 1 the 2 and the 3.
Ariose
June 18th, 2009
11:57 am
Furthermore, If we’re looking to trade Josh for “Financial Reasons”, what in hell makes you think we’d be getting someone back of equal stature? Last time I checked Stoudamire/Bosh all Make MORE MONEY than Josh. Yes, we got Josh for a bargain compared to what those other losers are making (and the couldn’t even get their respective teams to the playoffs this year…..not to mention they also have lengthy Injury Histories) hands down.
If we were to trade Josh it would basically be a salary dump…..period. That would say a lot bout the direction this franchise is heading in. Say bye bye to Joe and Bibby, neither will come back nor sign here if Josh gets traded. Mo, yes-even Mo Evans will ask for his Walking papers. He made that clear Last off-season after signing with the Hawks, and they asked him (and Marvin) the importance of bringing Josh back Post-Olypiacos Scandal.
I’m a homer, but I certainly couldn’t support the team until we got new Management if they pulled a stunt like that…….
Mike is back
June 18th, 2009
11:58 am
NewK and Doc, its refreshing to have a guy like Thomas Dimitroff running a professional sports organization in the ATL…I got to get that Gonzales jersey…that will be an instant classic. Its obvious Blanks is committed to winning a championship.
Dimitroff time in New England has served him well. It’s time someone raise the bar around here. Hopefully Sund and the ASG is taking notice, Right!!!…dream on mike.lol
Astro Joe
June 18th, 2009
12:00 pm
newkid, actually, I think all of the “Woody doesn’t play young guys” bashing is directed to one specific player… Acie. And the fact is that Acie received decent time in the first few months of his rookie season. And he didn’t do a lot with that opportunity (shot less than 40% from the field). But yes, he should have received a little more of a shot this year. I just don’t think that he has the requisite catch & shoot skills.
If TD & Smith find out that any one of their rookies can’t cut it, I doubt that the rookie will be given repeated opportunities. These teams are trying to win, not just develop individual talent at the expense of victories. If Chevis Jackson gives up a ton of repeated big plays in the first few weeks, do they stick with him or does someone like Von Hutchins get his snaps? It’s not about Chevis’ development, it’s about team wins. I am pretty sure Coach Smith would do the right thing for the team.
Ariose
June 18th, 2009
12:06 pm
Poop, I read it yesterday but didn’t post it so I think you’re good lol.
Basically, Josh is worth 17mill with the Trade Kicker. On top of that, the Kicker acts as a no trade clause b/c Josh has to give consent on any trade involving himself within a year of signing his contract I believe. On top of that, He’s a Base Year Compensation player which means the Hawks automatically take back half of his salary. So instead of being worth 10mill in a trade, he’s only worth about 5mill so if we wanted to get “Someone of equal skill/value” we would have to add another (or a few) players to make it work.
newkid
June 18th, 2009
12:48 pm
doc, I find comparing the two organizational cultures (i.e., Hawks and Falcons) from afar almost nightmarish. But then I quickly recall that the current well-deserved respect many of us have for the Blank-TD-Smith marriage is a rather recent phenomenon. I”m sure you recall the many years most of us had a sort of Clampetts view of the Smiths (perhaps rightfully so), then Mr. Blank ‘came to town’ and – despite a few hitches along the way – introduced effective introspection and financial commitment to building a team capable of competing for the Lombardi trophy. To have accomplished this in such a short time ought to give us all hope that it can be replicated by the Hawks, but gosh isn’t it so excrutiatingly frustrating to have to wait so long for its evolution? Do you ever wonder if they (i.e., the ASG) view our ‘rants’ as just reflections of bellicose and verbose fans with no better diversions, or do they sometimes view this for the ‘cry for competence’ that it really is?
niremetal
June 18th, 2009
12:56 pm
Ariose,
I’m pretty sure the trade kicker doesn’t require the player’s approval before trading. It just acts a heavy deterrent to trading because it means that the team acquiring the player must pay a massive bonus to get him – and a team isn’t likely to pay that bonus unless they’re damned sure they want the player.
Whitaker also got the BYC rules wrong. The BYC rules only apply for 6 months or until June 30, whichever comes later. So Josh will no longer be a BYC player as of July 1.
Lastly, the BYC rules mean that the Hawks consider Josh’s BYC salary in trades, but the other team has to consider his full salary PLUS the trade kicker.
In other words, between now and June 30, Josh’s “cap number” for trades from our perspective is ~$5M. For other teams, it’s ~$16M (his actual salary plus the trade kicker) which makes trading him to a team over the cap impossible.
After June 30, his cap number for trades from the Hawks’ perspective becomes $10M, but for other teams it remains ~$16M (again, his actual salary plus the trade kicker – but the kicker is a little less since there’s a year less left on his contract).
Tyler
June 18th, 2009
1:05 pm
Najeh, so you don’t buy into the “Euro hype year in and year out” despite the fact that they have a higher success rate than Americans entering the draft? The fact that Europe sends their best and the NCAA can send anyone is moot here. The only hyped ones that busted were Sarunas, Tskitishvili, and Milicic. The others who were hyped were successful or they became stars in a league that isn’t tailored for their type of game in the first place. It sounds like you just hate Euros dude.
newkid
June 18th, 2009
1:05 pm
Ole grad school buddy just sent over this thing called ‘draft rater’ from ESPN’s site. Have you guys seen it? Had Lawson rated a top pro prospect in this year’s draft. Gotta love those Carolina guys, huh?
Tyler
June 18th, 2009
1:06 pm
niremetal, thanks for clearing that up. This CBA stuff can get pretty confusing.