Be careful what you wish for …

From what i have read about this year’s draft, which i admit is very little, it is not very deep. also, trading smith for pick(s) would give the hawks’ front office a wonderful opportunity to screw up. is this steming from Smith’s altercations with Woodson or, are they just completely out of their minds?

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first

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Wouldn’t trading Smith for a draft pick be a step backward for the Hawks? Aren’t we suppose to be moving forward by adding veterans? (Hopefully a center)

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I agree with you Sekou.I think Joe and Smith should be untouchable.Even if we get draft picks Sund is horrible at drafting players.Look at his record in Seattle.He drafted 4 centers in 4 straight years(Collison,Sene,Swift,and another scrub0.If they were to trade anyone it should be Marvin or Horford

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This is not good….trade Woodson instead. J Smith is not the only player to have issues with that coach. He is just not hiding like the others i.e. “being professional”. They’ve all tuned chrome dome all the way out and NBA insiders know it as well as the GM. Why do you think they have not offered Woody an extension- the writing is on the wall. You trade Smith and you trade away about one of the main reasons folks in Atlanta even show up for the games. If they trade him, it BETTER be for someone really good, otherwise it’ll be just another in a LONNNNNNNNG line of dumb moves by this franchise.

Just rename them the Atlanta “Kill My” Spirit Group and get it over with…

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I dams sure hope the Hawks don’t screw up and trade Josh. We just need Dwight Howard to come home and play C, so Josh can play SF, Horford at PF, and get a nice combo guard in the draft this year. No need to push the panic button in upper mgmt. Time to build a team to play for a championship in the next two years, not rebuild on hope. Go Hawks!

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I don’t know whether the churning from my stomach is the thought loosing Josh Smith or from dinner, but either way, it makes for interesting fodder heading into the draft.

The idea of trading Smith comes back to assets – and he’s maybe the biggest one on the Hawks. He’s young, talented and signed to a relatively affordable contract despite the trade kicker. If his trade could add comparable talent that would allow the Hawks to improve, then by all means, it should be done.

But on the other hand, he’s young, talented and signed to an affordable contract who is already on the team. He provides plus weak-side defender, a fantastic shot blocker, has a good up-and-down game and in a more fitting offensive system, could easily average 20/8 if not 24/8.

I can’t sit here and begin to understand what goes on in the locker room, on the practice court or in the huddle, but despite his inconsistencies on the court he’s dynamic. The guy’s still young. Maybe he never matures on the court, but even if that’s the case, he’d still be a significant asset for a sign-and-trade in a few years.

Trading J-Smoove might allow Al Horford to move to the 4 but then who would play the 5? Loose Zaza in free agency and now the only other signed big is the esteemed Mr. Morris.

Look, as a life-long Hawks fan I’m all for making this team but I’d sure have to be a blockbuster to no leave huge question mark stamped over the franchise until next March.

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Bradley, nice try (not), but your well-documented infatuation with Smith completely taints your fairly poor effort at objectivity. Like many others who visit here, you’ve well established (through previous opinions) that you’re far more enamored with the idea of retaining someone you’re convinced will be the best player on the side in a few years (even if the side never makes a real run at the O’Brien trophy during his tenure) than you are with the ASG building a team that has a legitimate chance at playing in June. So what if Smith does well in another system (great for him), so long at the value the Hawks receive in return pushes our side closer to the O’Brien than does retention of Smith. I’m not a Smith basher; I’m a fan of June play. If moving Smith (or one of the other pieces) gets us a June parade on Peachtree, what could be disagreeable about that. If you’re quick, each year in November – for about $160 for the season – NBA Season Pass will allow you to follow Smith and his exploitss all across the US.

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If you don’t want the Hawks to take any chances this offseason then you are just asking to watch them be a 45 to 50 win team that makes it no further than the second round of the playoffs. They are not going to compete with Orlando or Cleveland in coming years without being significantly better than what they were last year. The goal should be to win a Championship, not be 3rd or 4th best in the conference. The Hawks cannot be afraid to take chances.

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Trading Josh Smith would be the event that AJC columnists write about for the *next* 20 years when they are wondering where it all went wrong for the Hawks. It will go down as #1 in the Hawks’ front office all-time screw-ups, right ahead of all the PG’s we decided not to draft earlier this decade, ahead of the brilliant Isaiah Rider acquisition, etc., etc.

Given that it is the Hawks’ front office we are talking about, of course, there is probably a 70/30 chance they will go ahead and deal him for a soon-to-be-forgotten #5 and a couple of draft picks.

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Lol, newkid…I second the nomination of you for blogger of the year

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Josh Smith is a talent. He is still pretty raw at times. I agree – be carefull what we ask for. On one hand, we as fans get frustrated at JS for some of the mental lapses, shot selection, etc. however a good point was made – he has only played for the hawks and Woodson and he is 23.

To say that Woodson seems inspiring would be like calling Stan Van Gundy a voice of calm and stability. We all want a true center and a point guard (depending on Bibby) going forward but does that mean we simply trade Josh for hope in the draft? Granted Woodson has a record that has only improved in his tenure but could it really go in any other direction at least the first few years?

We’ve got to address the Center position and allow Horford to play the P. Forward. Horford is not tradeable in my opinion – he is the one that brings the heart and passion which if anyone watched the finals – Kobe is the epitomy of leadership on a team and we need guys that are quality and bring those intangibles. Bottom line get a solid center, keep subtracting pieces weighing us down for a piece or two that adds value and see where we go one last year under Woodson.

I don’t necessarily like the play from Woodson’s teams but we’ve been playing without a true center this whole time. Again, look at the Lakers (Gasol/Bynum), Boston Last year vs. this year without Garnett; Orlando with Dwight to make it to the finals and then look at Cleveland and the Hawks – no true bigs.

We don’t have a true superstar like some of those teams either but we do have a lot of talent and with our current debacle as an ownership group I would trust us making minimal moves versus major ones at this point – meaning add a true big, subtract some baggage and see what happens in Woody’s potential last year – then we should really know what we have and don’t.

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Don’t you see the obvious staring you in the face? Here’s Sekou’s quote: I say this after having numerous conversations last summer and all season long with scouts and executives from teams around the league wondering just how good Smith might be if he played in another system (no one has ever seen him anywhere but in a Hawks uniform).

Who determines what system he plays in? Woodson and he is the one who should go. Then the Hawks could be ones who see how could he could really be.

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Trading Josh Smith before you fire Mike Woodson is way forward. Also, signing Joe Johnson to a $20,000,000 extension this a good step, too! And yeah, we can sign Lindsey Hunter and Mike James as our PG and C!
Now after we do all of that, we can expect our club to win 60+ games and be Eastern Conference contenders! Yeah!

*Joking*

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Opps! I meant “Jerome James”, not “Mike James”.

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Okay, what I don’t know about basketball could fill a warehouse, so be patient with me. But didn’t the Hawks have to match an RFA offersheet just to KEEP Josh Smith last offseason? And now, they’re thinking about trading him? Does this make any kind of sense? The Hawks should be happy they kept their player. And what must Joe Johnson be thinking about Smith being potentially traded? Okay, he probably just ignores rumors. Let me rephrase, imagine what he’d think IF Josh Smith got traded?

May I ask you longtime Hawks fans a question? Didn’t it feel good to win a playoff series this year? Forget, for the moment, that the Hawks aren’t ANYWHERE NEAR NBA title contention. But wasn’t that a positive step in the right direction? Okay then. Why dismantle it? You should be ADDING pieces. Joe Johnson could be gone at the end of his contract. If you guys trade Josh Smith, are you happy with what’s left?

I’m going to dismiss this one as idle hearsay. I doubt the Spirit Boys are stupid enough to let this happen. So, when is Josh Childress coming back? Does he like Greece?

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People people, get a dose of reality, if the hawks trade josh smith they WILL NOT get a superstar in return. After getting the CASH every superstar(xept A.I.) wants a ring, thats the only way you get respect in this league, and until the HAWKS get a new coach with a new philosophy they will not get a superstar or a ring no time soon. So the superstars will only go to teams that have a chance to get that ring. This off season will be no different than any other in atlanta, they make a trade ever year but the return value will only be a certain type of player in this city.

Get a real coach who really coaches. And that coach will bring his own type of players to the team; that means at least 6 current players will be gone from this team and may just maybe that real superstar will come to atlanta.

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ps please trade joe johnson, this guy was a sixth man in phoenix and here he is a suppose all star(who disappeared again in the playoffs). gimme a break. hes a good complement to a team not THE go to player in crunch time. stop hyping him up.

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Sekou, we know we shouldn’t trade Josh because I’m sure you’ll write a blog in 2 days about how chiseled and how much better he looks after working hard the past month. I’m waiting for that blog about Marvin and Solo too.

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This is why I hate the offseason. Now I’m officially starting to worry! The suspense of just thinking about the moves the Hawks make this summer is driving me bonkers. I want to riot, shake a few cars, beat a few poles with a bat, and hurt a few police officers. No just kidding! But seriously I would like the satisfaction of seeing my Hawks win a championship in my lifetime. Every time the Hawks are on track toward being champions, management fudges it up.

1956: The Day The Hawks Lost Bill Russell- before my time but at least 9-11 banners would probably be hanging in the arena today.

The Hawks let the Celtics take Bill Russell. One of the greatest big men ever. Ahhh.

It’s time for the Hawks to start a new legacy. End the legacy of screwing up and getting rid of great players.

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Rick Sund isnt that retarted is he sekou?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!

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Don’t trade Jsmoove period. Kid’s only 23 and most players are just getting out of college at that age. We have many years left to win and we only need a couple of pieces. To repeat, don’t trade him or your fan base that Woody has built in the last few years will disappear. Think there was an outcry with MV7, just wait till this goes down. Riot in ATL!

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AT 23 YEAR’S OF AGE JOSH’S BEST YEAR’S ARE AHEAD OF HIM! IF ANYTHING GET A “REAL” NBA CALIBER COACH WHOM IS JOB SCARED!! ANY IMPROVEMENT TO DATE WITH THIS TEAM HAS BEEN DONE INSPITE OF WOODY!! SETTING ON THE BENCH WILL NOT GAIN PLAYER’S VALUABLE KNOWLEDGE(ACIE LAW) OF THE GAME NOR DOES IT ADD MUCH NEEDED DEPTH TO BE COMPETITIVE IN THE LEAGUE! THIS IS BY FAR THE BIGGEST GRIPE I HAVE WITH WOODROW AND FOR MY DOLLAR’S TO BE SPENT AT PHILIP’S ARENA EVER AGAIN HE’S GOTTA GO! PERIOD!! ATLANTA SPIRIT…RICK SUND….DO YOU HEAR ME!!! NO MORE CLOSE CALL’S WITH SUCCESS!! WE,THE FAN’S DEMAND AND DESERVE A CONSISTENT WINNER THAT WILL CHALLENGE FOR “THE” TITLE!!! GET TO IT NOW!!!

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Do what JT said!

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Lets keep it real in the playoffs when ask the? what player determine if the hawks lose or win in the playoffs 90percent of the nasayer said josh because he is and impact player who changes the game when he is on no one said joe,bibby,marvin,horford,flip, or any one else so why would you trade 23 year old who has that much potential from and organization that has never accomplish any thing in the history of this franchise its make no sense.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

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Smoove is still immature. He can’t guard any post players, he argues EVERY CALL, he can’t speak English properly, and he can’t shoot a ball into an ocean

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WHAT CAN WE GET FOR SUND, BRADLEY AND ZAZA THE ROAD TO THE CUP IS NOW OPEN PACULIA? CAN WE GET A DRAFT PICK FOR DUMB, MO DUMB AND SIX INCH VERTICAL LEAP?

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Just got through debating with Jamelle Hill on twitter about weather or not J-Smoove is immature or not…….we baisically agreed to disagree. I toldd her compared to Rahseed, he’s a saint.

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I am amazed at my reaction to this rumor….I have b#tched about Josh Smith for years (sometimes even on this blog). I would have expected myself to be all for this potential trade, but I’m not.

I don’t want the Hawks to trade Josh Smith. It is just too risky. Josh, although he drives me nuts, has all the tools to be great. We have waited this long for him to develop. Why trade him off to a team that might be getting a finished product?

Mz. Hawkdafied, I with you. I am starting to worry…

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Fire Woodson, trade Joe, trade Josh, draft CP3, draft Brandon Roy, blah, blah, blah!

*Middle finger to the Hawks*

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Ray,

Maybe he’ll join Diaw in Charlotte, Przybilla in Portland, or Chill in Greece. Amazing to think what we could do with a “Young-Players-Who-The-Hawks-Had-No-Use-For Team.” The only weakness on that team would be PF…my guess is Shelden would be their starter.

Sekou,

Yeah, we shouldn’t trade Josh for cap space and/or a draft pick. That would just be stupid. I admit I might be intrigued by Rubio, but no way I give up Smoove for him. Josh should be out of the question unless you get back a young, solid starting center or an All-Star in his prime. The two names I’m specifically thinking of are Biedrins and Bosh. But I’d hesitate on Smith-for-Biedrins, and I’m sure the Raptors would hesitate on Smith-for-Bosh – from their perspective, they’d probably want to rebuild (read: shed payroll) if Bosh leaves.

But for a draft pick? Unless it’s the Clippers’, no thanks. And just to clear payroll a la the Nuggets with Camby? No way.

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I know what this is…

This is a Sekou Smith Mark Bradley conspiracy/collaboration.

Don’t believe it folks.

But when you think about and some people above me have mentioned this as well. It is always cheaper to fire the coach ALways unless its like Phil Jackson. So moving someone who was signed relatively cheap compared to his restricted free agent counterparts I would assume is not a good idea until we see him in a different situation.

Like the summer junior Olympic team which could really be a turning point for him. Even though I really doubt he was invited.

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Don’t trade Smith until you get a coach that has a clue. Get a coach that has an offense, get a coach that utilizes the obvious talent that he has. Get a coach that has more that one play, heck, get one that has 3 or 4 plays.

Woody is the problem. The Hawks will only be average at best, he is holding them back.

Who else is Woody going to get? Someone to stand outside and shoot threes? He certainly does not want to actually have to develop someone. Dang that would be hard.

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trade him for draft picks? that woody won’t develop? and we end up fightin’ for the 8th seed again? wtf? trade josh for bosh (im a poet and didn’t know it.)

can you imagine bosh horford jj on the block? philip’s would be packed nightly, money will be made on concessions, parkin’, liquor, jersey etc. that is the only way that i would trade josh, otherwise, hawks will be laffin’ stock of the league.

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If woody is going to continue to be the coach he must hire him a offensive mind asst coach.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

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sekou

If its Josh Smith for Amare Stoudemire I would consider it. Also what is the latest as far as what point guards are working out with the hawks this week?

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Trade the coach keep the player….

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GameTime-Josh Smith 08-09 Mix

Link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY3y7d8-fdU&feature=channel

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GameTime-Al Horford 08-09 Mix

Link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqIyBuLAymY&feature=channel

It’s been a while since ANYONE has made a Horford mix……not since right after he was drafted/part of his rookie campaign…..

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J-SMOOTH…ATHLETE NOT A BASKETBALL PLAYER

Josh has been playing basketball for 23 years and he can,t shoot or dribble. We have been waiting for the potential for 5 years…HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO DEVELOP A JUMP SHOT??? You can’t keep player because you are afraid he will better with another team..THAT IS BAD BUSINESS!!!

HOW MUCH WILL IT COST TO FIND OUT HE IS JUST AN ATHLETE PLAYING BASKETBALL!!!!!

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Sekou,

If both players were given the chance to play PF with the same 4 guys around them, who do you think would be the better PF? Josh Smith, or Al Horford?

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Rufus 1, I agree in one aspect, Josh Smith needs to take his behind in the gym and shoot about a thousand jumpers a day until he gets it right. And he needs to learn to give the ball up to his guards on breaks and hit the wing for the finish. Other than that, he has everything this team needs from a power forward. All players are athletes playing basketball until someone helps them develp their strenghts into a skill set. Unfortunately for Josh, he doesn’t have that guidance here with this coaching staff. No one on this team does.

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R
I
C
K
Y

R
U
B
I
O

It’s a guard’s league and he’s the next great one. Yes, he’s only 18, but he has played very very well every time against the U.S. He’s better than ANY of the college point guards.

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Bouncing the ball twice to get to the hole is not dribbling…If that is the standard then 99% of the NBA can dribble. YOU AND I GET NERVOUS WHEN HE PUTS THE BALL ON THE FLOOR.(Turnover Machine)

SAY IT OUT LOUD…HE MAKES 10 MILLION A YEAR, HE CAN BARELY DRIBBLE AND CAN’T SHOOT!!!!

I repeat…HOW MUCH WILL IT COST TO FIND OUT HE IS JUST AN ATHLETE PLAYING BASKETBALL!!!!!

PS. FIRE WOODSON

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rich, i love josh, only if you throw in mcghee then we got a deal, id even give you the 19 spot to even it up. so it goes like this, butler, mcghee, crit, the 5 slot in the draft for josh and the number 19. deal? that would begging to answer some issues for the hawks and break up the log jam between marvin, smith and horford.

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Good Golly! Another Summer of drama revolving around Josh Smith? Really?

That said, trading him for draft picks only is unacceptable.Now if those picks were used in a package for another frontline player then that would approach making sense.

But hey, “sources” told us that Josh was going to sign with the Sixers and we all see how that went down. Then as that fire began to flicker, we got “Josh to sign with the Clippers?”

Now we’ve had two Josh Smith blogs in less than a weeks time? Y’all going to give poor Ray high blood pressure with all this Josh talk!

Go Hawks!!

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Rufus 1…… The only guy that will get constant touches to command a double team in Woody’s offense is Joe. You can’t blame the player for the horrible coaches offense.

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Trade for David West? I’ll have what their smoking!

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And co-sign Depressed too… David West ain’t nothing special.

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“It’s a guard’s league and he’s the next great one. Yes, he’s only 18, but he has played very very well every time against the U.S. He’s better than ANY of the college point guards.”

They said all this about Sarunas Jasikevicius after he torched the US team in world competition back in 2003 or 2004, whenever it was. It’s funny how Euros never get criticized like high schoolers do for their high rate of becoming busts, even though a much higher percent of highly touted Euros never make it big in the NBA. Rubio’s got skills, don’t get me wrong, but give me Jennings or Maynor any day ahead of him.

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The thing that stuck out the most in this article was the fact that everyone knows we have no offensive system what so ever…

Rufus you say we invest in players who show growth but Horford’s rookie season was better than his second season if you ask me. His rebounding went down and he still has no post moves. His scoring went up some but other than that he did not look much different than he did his rookie year. Josh is a better player than Horford and Marvin even with all his flaws.

This draft is too weak to trade Josh for picks. I like Blake but that still is not enough… Thabeet will be a bust. He is a 7 footer who could not dominate college plus got intimidated by smaller players such as Blair…

The only three guys we could trade Josh for and I would not have a problem with are Bosh, Amare, or Biedrens. If we can only get draft picks for Josh and neither one of these players then this trade will make no sense.

I find it funny how some guys are bashing Josh but when it was playoff time he seemed like he was the only one who cared. Marvin was hurt and when he did play did nothing. Horford did nothing. Joe still could not pass out of double teams. Bibby was getting lit up on the defensive side as always. I wish guys would just say I don’t like Josh instead of making up these silly reasons like oh is so immature but then turn around and want Rasheed Wallace.

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Let’s see. Correct me if I am wrong guys. We had Nene, the rights to Gasol and I am sure other 5 position players but we dont like scoring centers. Zelmo Beaty was the last SCORING center that I can remember. Maybe I forgot the Tree and Concak debacle. Now Tree was what we needed but some of these other jerks made my stomach churned. We dont have a clue when it comes to drafting players. Get a quality scouting dept and we might get a championship team. Just ask former players like G Tormohlen and B Rhinehart.

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Chandler + signing Andre Miller + re-signing Zaza Pachulia = Debt

And, we can’t trade Childress, he’s staying in Greece. If we did, it would be pointless for the other team to want him. Who want’s a player that want even play this season? Not me, Dan.

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real as i was hearing chuck and kenny criticizing brown for his handling of the bench, its roles and keeping them primed by playing them for some regular minutes i was thinking the same thing. then i read your remark at i suck 9:12.

melvin, yup flip for three but he was rescued as an after thought from russia wasnt it? mo had to be talked out of going somewhere else as he was rumored to be signed by someone else, houston i think but i guess they had to promise him an extra year to get him. if you remember i saidbefore the fact that the agents of josh and chillls need to be creative and look elsewhere. if i could see it coming why didnt sund and the hawks’ basg. it is even more embarrasisng to give the idea they were caught blind sided. it only points to their arrogance in playing their hand too hard. i would have preferred them saying we gave a good offer and low and behold chills did himself proud by shopping it over seas and stealing money from the russians in greece in eruos. that would have meant they were proactive. overall i still have my concerns about sund and will watch how they handle this year as it is a lot more complicated than last year when they only had to deal with two moving parts and almost fumbled that one. the jury is still out.

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Josh Smith is a souped up Trevor Ariza with a worse 3 point shot.

The Truth hurts

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Najeh,

As a total aside, it’s funny. Sarunas is a Hall-of-Famer in European hoops. It’s just such a different game in Europe than it is here. I have a distinct feeling that as more Americans begin playing over there, we’ll see that it works both ways – there are some players over here whose games would not translate well to the European style of play. He’s a “bust” for his NBA career, but I have a feeling that someone like Artest would be a “bust” in Europe if he follows through on his threat to go there.

That being said, you’re right about the bust rate of Euro prospects. It’s certainly comparable to those of American prospects. But I don’t think it’s actually significantly higher – their failures just seem to be more high-profile because they have so much hype coming thanks to the pro-level exposure they get in Europe.

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Perhaps a theory as to why Josh can’t peak may have nothing to do with Josh, the person; it may have everything to do with where Josh lives; in the ATL. To be all he can be, perhaps Josh should cut those childhood connection loose and move on to another team in another town. Perhaps that is the reasons why Josh can’t peak; Atlanta, his hometown city is holding him back. It is rare for a star NBA player to play ball in his hometown. It is even more unusual for the star player to go from high-school to the NBA while living in his hometown. There may be a reason why this is rare. Since Josh has become a millionaire, I’m sure he is living the appropriate life style for the rich and famous in the ATL. I am also sure his circle consists of his family and close friends even perhaps his childhood friends. One theory with this arrangement is that it causes above average distractions from competing family members and friends, perhaps to a point that it limits Josh’s growth and development causing him to lose focus. Perhaps he can’t be the player that he should be because he is dealing with a larger pool of family matters, from the mommy, daddy, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, to the grand’s and the greats (not to mention the neighborhood buddies and high-school sweet hearts etc.). As Men, we can all relate to growing into manhood; as we developed and realized that the mission isn’t complete until we move out from under mom/dad roof and move on into our own world. This is not just a physical transformation but also emotional as well. For example, a person could physically have moved out but could still emotionally and psychologically perceive himself as “little-Johnny” as long as he lives in the same city with parents. Dynamics as these, if true, could keep Josh on lock-down and causes him to always be a constant repeat mistake prone offender since that has been his pattern; always a day late and a dollar short because he is not able to put in the time to correct his errors.

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I have to agree with Darrin the Vent King where he said:

This is not good….trade Woodson instead. J Smith is not the only player to have issues with that coach. He is just not hiding like the others i.e. “being professional”. They’ve all tuned chrome dome all the way out and NBA insiders know it as well as the GM. Why do you think they have not offered Woody an extension- the writing is on the wall. You trade Smith and you trade away about one of the main reasons folks in Atlanta even show up for the games. If they trade him, it BETTER be for someone really good, otherwise it’ll be just another in a LONNNNNNNNG line of dumb moves by this franchise.

Just rename them the Atlanta “Kill My” Spirit Group and get it over with…

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I am always amazed when a guy who knows nothing about a player can make these type of comments. His game in your opinion is not improving because of him being at home. When his stats improved his first four years in the league was that because of his family? Has he been in any legal trouble here in Atl? No, but his family and his childhood friends are holding him back.
Funny, you experts here want Amare here. His mother is in jail and his brother was arrested last year for murder. Chris Bosh is being sued because of baby mama drama. This is not a knock at these guys. It is letting someone like you know trouble can follow you wear anywhere. There are a lot of players in this league constantly in trouble Smith is not one of them. Stop with the Dr. Phil until you can back it up with facts. You might also want to change the name The Truth doesn’t seem to be realistic.

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Josh was the only player to show his face during the Cavaliers series. The only one. Yet here we are talking of trading him. Wow.

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how about Josh Smith for Detroit Tayshaun Prince?

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I know J Smoove, & he is a good young man! Very firm & very wise, to be 23 years old. I can understand why some of you could think that Josh is different, because he rarely smiles, or politics with the fans, or kiss the babies like a politician would! but like him or not, you can’t say One single game when he was on the floor that he didn’t rep the A!!! & leave it all on the floor!!! he, like many other players does have growing to do, both personally, & in his game. He does need to practice daily on his jump shot! In the playoffs Josh Lead The Hawks in Scoring, rebounds & Blocks! Now people are talking about he should be traded? ATLANTA I HOPE THAT THAT JOSHUA SMITH DOES GET TRADED & TO A CONTENDER, & I HOPE THAT EVERYTIME THAT HE COMES BACK HOME TO PLAY IN THE A, THAT HE SLAM DUNKS THE HAWKS UNDER THE ARENA, & HIS NEW TEAM BEAT THE HECK OUT OF THE HAWKS EVERYTIME!!! YOU ARE SOME UNGREATFUL PEOPLE!!! THE HAWKS HAVE PROGRESSED!!! THEY LOST IN THE 1ST ROUND LAST YEAR!!!! THEY MADE IT TO THE SECOND ROUND THIS YEAR!!! THATS PROGRESSS!!! YOU GIVE PEOPLE A INCH, & THEY WANT A MILE!!! GET A LIFE HATERS!!!

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I think that some people dont remember about what happened the last time that Hawks went to the second round and lost, they went from a respectful team to a lottery team because they was trying to get younger. Now the same issue is coming back up but this time, it is because of a stupid rumor from a guy who hates the Atlanta Hawks until he gets blue in the face. Do J-Smoove need to get better, Yes!!, Should we trade him: Unless we get something equal or better value for him No!!.

Because let say that we did trade him this year and JJ decide to go somewhere else in that super class of 2010, who is going to take up the leadership and scoring roles from Josh and JJ?

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How about we START with trading the coach first and go from there….

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Josh is 23 getting paid almost near half of what Rashard Lewis is getting paid. Is a better defender and athelete who has more heart and love for the game then most people with his skill set/abilities. Turn his anger from bad calls and plays into fire and dominance on Defense and Offense. This is the same kid that got 10 blocks in one year his rookie game (people were overwhelmed then by his abilities and people are overwhelmed now. His flaws are easily fixable. As far as a jump shot all he needs is more practice, focus and confidence. Free throws = ditto it was a time where he was making those easily. Dribbling( How many guys have u seen that size that can move and dribble like him).Decision making comes with experience. What is he truly lacking that would make him such a liability to the team.

Most players that came out of high school took at least four years or the right situation (coach etc.) to even establish themselves. Tracy McGrady, Jermaine Oneal, Kobe was not a phenom when he first got in and even Garnett needed some time to develop, Dwight’s great but he still is not where he will be). I’m saying all this to say that I’ve been a Hawks fan since Dominique and even after the trade I still supported the Hawks through the Willie Burton’s, Ed Gray’s, Priest Lauderdale’s, I loved our team when we had five good starters in Mookie Blaylock, Steve Smith, Christain Laetner(sorry forgot how to spell his name) Grant Long/Alan Henderson, and Dikembe Mutombo. I believed in our team when we had Jason Terry, Stephen Jackson, Glen Robinson, Shareef Abdul Rahim, and Theo Ratliff. Teams like this go to show that if the person pulling the strings(coach) Does not have the correct mindset to get the best out of there team then maybe that person needs to be the one shown the door.

Woodson is an evil genious who I believe has the ability to take this team to the next level but not while being as stubborn as the players he pisses off. I’ve seen Salim score an easy 30 on Chris Paul and the Hornets during their rookie year on a game that would have been a blow out for the Hornets against us and instead of honing in on the good and using Salim’s talents to our advantage while teaching him the right way he simply let him rot on the bench and lose his confidence. We can’t afford to let all this young talent go to waste.

I’ve said it before I been a Hawks fan since the Dominique era but have not had another favorite player on the Hawks until Josh Smith came along. He reminds me of a future Dominique (I’m talking about a guy that battled against Jordan and Bird gracefully) but better defensively and could also be a better all around offensive player. Who do we have now in the likes of this league that can battle a Lebron turn around and guard Chris Paul and then show signs of dominance against the same likes of Chris Bosh and Amare Stoudemire. It took me a while to have a favorite player on the Hawks again( Tracy McGrady, Kevin Garnett, Baron Davis, versatile players with size like Lamar Odom, Charlie Villanueva, Rudy Gay and Rashard Lewis before they were anybody I saw the potential and truthfully none of them besides Kevin to me reached their potential but it is/was there).

We are teased with the second coming of one of our greatest players and if we make the same mistake twice for the first time in my life I might end up faithfully following another team. I planned to buy my season tickets now but I might just have to hold off until the off season fiasco clears up. Our core is spectacular like it is keep Marvin get Chills back(people’s biggest complaint of him at the time was that he would be better suited for a play off team hint!! hint!!). Add a center if we can’t keep Zaza for instance BJ Mullen (Chris Anderson offensively and maybe defensively) or a defensive 7 footer(tall cheap 6′11)Charlie Villanueva who can spread the floor and learn to be consistent force with guys his age and skillset to compete with.Let Law let loose with Bibby mentoring. Definitely keep Flip U CAN’T TEACH HEART/CONFIDENCE which is another reason to keep JOSH SMITH turn that heart into focus and watch what u get. Keep SOLO and allow him to become a real part of the team(U can’t teach size and athleticism). Horford is a keeper as well as Joe(Less Minutes). Who cares if you get a legitimate center and Marvin has to come off the bench. I do not think Marvin would mind comin off with Chills,Flip, Bibby/Law/filler(maybe Sessions/Chambers type) and a more productive Solo/Zaza/Mullen/Villanueva it wouldn’t hurt to keep “Trevor Ariza” I mean Mario West either. This team will have very high value can be assessed after next year. Either they push it to the limits which will be easier for a young team to do with all of the chemistry most of them already have. And If it does not work out whether it be via coach or players you have enough assets on your team to where you can trade three for a superstar if we haven’t found out that we may already have just that in a Joe, Marvin, Horford, Chills, Smith, Charlie, Bj, Law, Bibby, Solo, West, Murray, and whoever else whether Evans, Gardner, Hunter, Pachulia, Morris, or new cast of reserves.

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Marvin is who needs to go…NOT JOSH…Marvin is garbage.

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J I agree with you Marvin is the one that needs to go. But, I won’t call him garbage. He is who he is. I see now why Sund was a trash GM at Seattle. He got lucky with Flip and Moe but remember Flip played for him in Seattle. But, he is a fool if he trades J-Smoove. Don’t tear down am improving team that won 47 games and a play-off series. J-Smoove is the second best player on this team. JJ is our horse but J-Smoove has more than potential he have produced very good numbers and yet he is the 4th scoring option, because they look to get the ball to Marvin mor than him.

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Is Wren the GM of the Hawks now too?

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Why is my name on my driver license is in all capital letters is im a dead man walking this make no sense.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!

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u have to address the coach and his staff before u do anything.
u have players on your team who stay away from hawks team sponsored off season workouts,but come back a heck of a lot more improved than if they would be working with the hawks coaching staff..SAD!!!

i think sund will deserve more credit for bringing in rookie/2nd year players in othello hunter and thomas gardner,once these players move on and show just how good they are when they get away from this coaching staff..

this coach can’t coach up talent..nor can his staff..therefore,u won’t have youth,ever again with this coach..u will only have older vets,and young vets..no rookie to build up for the future..

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Sure trade him … for Chris Paul, not for picks.

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Seriously, this has me pissed off…DON’T TRADE HIM!!!!

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There’s no question that Josh is talented, and you can’t teach some of the things he does defensively and in transition. That’s what makes him special.

What doesn’t is his mindless play. Why does he think he’s a shooter when he’s obviously not. Also, his constant complaining to officials — even on plays that he’s not involved in — only hurts the team. I know he’s only 23, but he’s been in the league long enough now to know what you can, and can’t, get away with.

If the kid worked harder to improve that not-so-smooth J, the trade rumors would be a non-issue.

And, as for those groaners, if he does get traded, the only ones he’d be ridding himself of would be here in Atlanta. Constantly mis-firing from 15-feet and beyond will bring them out no matter where it is that he’ll call home.

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TRADE WOODY

TRADE WOODY

TRADE WOODY

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FIRE WOODY

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Oh, so the Hawks are a “backcourt-dominated” offense. Maybe that’s why Josh spends so much time out there.

Do you think we could get a full case of Twizzlers?

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TRADING JOSH WOULD SET THIS FRANCHISE BACK ANOTHER 7 YEARS. IT’S LIKE A NEVER ENDING NIGHTMARE WILKINS TRADED FOR DANNY MANNING, STEVE SMITH TRADED FOR WEST COAST GANGSTA ISIAH RIDER, JOSH SMITH TRADED FOR ???? THE ATLANTA HAWKS ARE THE N.B.A. ‘S VERSION OF THE OLD C.B.A., BRING PLAYERS IN AND WHEN THEY GET GOOD SHIP THEM OUT TO OTHER TEAMS TO MAKE THEIR TEAMS BETTER. WHY WOULD ANYBODY WANT TO GO TO THE HIGHLIGHT FACTORY, IF MR. HIGHLIGHT IS GONE???

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FIRE WOODY.

keep josh.

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Trading Josh Smith would be pretty stupid in my opinion. Dont forget this is the same Chad Ford that made up the Amare Stoudamire trade rumor a few years ago that was never confirmed by anyone even after the fact!

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I hear what you are saying Sekou, but they got to upgrade the talent on this club quick. We need to win a championship. Not the playoff not the 2nd round, not win 50 games, but we need a championship in Atlanta. THE LAKERS HAVE BEEN TO THE FINALS 30 TIMES IN 63 YEARS. THEY REBUILT A CONTENTER IN 4 YRS. We had our first winning season in 10 yrs in 2009. The Celtics traded Al Jefferson (who’s a better player than JJ, JSmoove, & Horford) and they got pieces to win a CHAMPIONSHIP! I like josh joe and Al, but upgrades are a must to win CHAMPIONSHIPS. The Atlanta fans wants something different we want a CHAMPIONSHIP.

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To talking about draft picks and moving up in the draft we have enough young players on the team. We need to use the young talent we have developed to get superstars that cam win a CHAMPIONSHIP. If we could trade Josh and Horford to get Amare I’m all for it. Re-sign Bibby. Package Speedy & Marvin (9 Mil) for Chirs Kaman (9 Mil) the Clippers are unloading big men.

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We have an exciting core of signed players, i.e. josh, joe and horf – when you’re down at Philips 50+ times a season you want to see an exciting brand of basketball – josh is one of the most electrifying young players in the league, bar none – we need a center and a point who can get josh off – with a quick enough guard we will see more alleyoops than you can shake a stick at and josh will dominate SportsCenter highlights for years to come

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Najeh Davenpoop

I agree Woody needs to be fired before Josh is traded..
People he has been in the NBA 5 YEARS, and no one can define any improvements in his offensive GAME!!!! We can clearly see improvement in Al and Marvins Game and we know they will be better.

HE IS THE SAME PLAYERS 4 YEARS AGO, BUT KNOW HE MAKE 1O MILLIONS A YEAR. HE IS 3 TO 4 MILLION A YEAR BASED ON POTENIAL. IT IS OBVIOUS, HE EITHER LAZY OR DOES HAVE THE SKILL SET. HE WILL NEVER BE ANYTHING MORE, THAN AN ATHLETE PLAYING BASKET.

SAY IT OUT LOUD…5 YEARS, 10 MILLION A YEAR, NO JUMP SHOT, NO POST GAME, MEDIOCRE DEFENDER, MEDIOCRE REBOUNDER AND A GREAT DUNKER.

DOES THAT SOUND LIKE A 10 MILLION DOLLAR PLAYER.

PS…Rashard Lewis is OVERPAID

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It is kind of obvious, on this blog, that there is no love for Woodson as the coach of the Hawks. As for as the discussion, I don’t believe trading Josh Smith is going to fix the problems. The Hawks need a QUALITY center (a big man that can create havoc in the paint).

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I can’t believe we are thinking of trading JSmoove, I mean, do fans and ownership honestly believe we are like the Mavs or Nuggets or Rockets?? I mean, we’ve only been above 500 one time in the past 10 years! Fans treat this team like we’ve been to the second round 5 straight years and need a shakeup! This is a joke, we just got their for the first time this year, wake up, this team is young but coming together. This past season was such a treat to watch, to be involved in the NBA again, to watch our home grown talent come together and be legitimate again. I am such an NBA fan and homer, I went through the rebuilding, watched the 13 win season, watched us pass up on CP3, watched us draft Sheldon over Roy, but I cannot watch another decent/good team dismantled again. J Smooth is our best player by far, he brings excitement, and the fans that boo him when he shoots, boo the coaching staff. Remember when Bibby yelled at Woodson after passing to Smooth? Half of the jumpshots he takes is due to being kicked the ball with 3 seconds left on the shot clock, of course he has to shoot it. Despite our lack of offensive cohesion, and losing a good player in Childress last year, we won 10 more games why? Because of growth, because our young players are getting better!

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Listen Hawks to trade Josh Smith would not be a good idea. I think your search to make the team better should be focused on adding a better coach, point guard and a vetran center. Did you see what Van Gundy did to a good Orlando Magic team. Well Woody is doing the same thing here.

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Trade Josh Smith? Man please, you got to be crazy! We ain’t even got JJ on lock after next year. That’s the real story! Sund ain’t about to do nothing with Josh until he knows JJ’s status. There’s never anything wrong with listening to offers, but Josh for a draft pick in this year’s draft LOL. Oh, I’m sorry I forgot I was typing!
Anyway, I live in Washington DC now and if we traded Josh to the Wizards I would just stop getting the NBA package and go to the Verizon Center and see Josh ball in DC. “Oh yeah then I could actually go to the Mall and get a Hawk Jersey but he’d have a Wizard Logo”!
Second thought trade Josh? Man please, yall must be crazy.
People don’t remember but they said the same thing about Nique!

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Josh Smith is a souped up Trevor Ariza with a worse 3 point shot.

The Truth hurts.

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My sentiment exactly ERich, a new coach alone could bring us where Orlando is today. IMHO, if we don’t resign Bibby, sign Sessions, a new coach would obviously see the talent that AC Law has, so we have the backup there, bring Childress and Marvin back, sign David Anderson, and that is good for 55 wins with a very young team! I don’t know how that all works with cap money, but not resigning bibby (13mil) and speedy coming off the books sometime soon should net us 20 mil right? I would think resigning Marvin shouldn’t cost too much more than what he made as the number 2 pick. So wouldln’t 20mil bring us Sessions, Childress and David Anderson?

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Don’t make any major moves until Woodson is no longer the coach. Has anyone ever really observed his coaching style during games or listen in during a time-out, the guy is terrible. The Hawks have reached their peak with coach Woodson, he has no idea how to motivate or develop young talent. It is so obvious that his coaching philosophy is to mirror Larry Brown, which he sucks at.

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GET RID OF WOODSON…PLEASE KEEP JOSH SMITH…HE IS THE SPARK IN THE TEAM…
HERE WE GO AGAIN…THE HAWKS DO SOMETHING STUPID…

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Astro – mine too . He did quote a source, but that source only seemed to talk about why a Josh trade would be difficult to pull off. Who knows. If nothing else, his columns are entertaining. Can’t wait until August, when I’ll finally be able to afford to buy an Insider subscription and waste my time on his columns every day…

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Ken,

Point is well taken re: Phil Jackson and the Triangle, but you got the history wrong. Tex Winter developed the triangle way before Jackson hired him to be an assistant.

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Ken Strickland

I agree. Woody needs help, but refuses to compromise, refuses to adjust (until it is too late). How many games did we lose where during his end if game interview, he told you exactly what the other team was doing, and what we weren’t doing. But yet during the game, he did nothing to adjust.

Everybody around the league realizes what kind of player Al can be, and what kind of player Josh could be, if they did not play in Woody’s system (whatever that is).

I’m used to hearing how D’Antoni’s system makes players look good. Well, Woody’s system keeps players down. Even JJ would have better numbers in somebody else’s system (more easy shots).

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Enter your comments here

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O’Brien, I think a D’Antoni coached team has only advanced further than the second round of the playoffs once. Sure, players look good and love the system but it isn’t really paying off. Mike Brown brought in an offensive coordinator and won COY, but when pushed came to shove, they ran iso LeBron and couldn’t defend Howard in the post.

Whatever Popovich is doing in San Antonio (as boring as it may be), is a far better example of excellence than anything associated with D’Antoni’s gimmick offense.

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Right now, the Hawks need two things: A coach who has a clue about forming a strategy and using depth, and a superstar.
The first should be readily available. It generally isn’t too hard to find a good, experienced coach who can come up with a scheme to maximize his team’s ability.
The second is much harder. As Rick Sund has said, the only way you get real superstars is to draft them. There are none in this draft.
So for now, hold on to Smith, give Woody the first 20 games of next season to show that he knows what he’s doing (unlikely), then fire him and bring in Avery Johnson or PJ Carlesimo.

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I am certainly not a fan or supporter of Woodson’s coaching, but did it ever occur to anyone that the reason the offense is “guard orientated” is because the Hawks do not have the personnel to have any other type offense? I don’t see the talent on the present roster to develop an offense based on inside scoring. BK may have built a team with players whose skills do not mesh with Wodson’s coaching style.

I have the opinion that Smith and Horford are not a good duo. In my opinion if Horford is the center and Smith is the power forward the Hawks are not big enough and if Horford is the power forward and Smith the small forward then they don’t have enough outside shooting. I like Horford’s game more than Smith’s. I don’t think Smith will ever be a good shooter unless he completely changes his jump shot form. When I’ve seen him play it’s like he’s throwing the ball at the basket rather than shooting it. It would be interesting to see Horford play with someone who has low-post scoring skills.

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The Hawks would be foolish to trade JJ, Boss, or Smoove for a draft pick. They might be better off trading their picks for a veteran player. The team in my opinion needs more veterans and not rookies. The key word is championship. Experience wins championships. A rookie point or center not get that championship, maybe in the future (5-6 years), but not now. Hawks fans have waited long enough. We want a championship team now. Trading any of the starters for a draft pick is an insult to fans, the players, and anyone else serious about making the team champions.

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Rod/Sam,

You’d have more credibility if your comments showed that you actually watched the goddmaned games,. What happened did Marvin steal your girlfriend? Whoops i mean your boyfriend. my bad.

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With that said, I’d take Smoove and Chills over Caron, Crittenton and #5 anyday.

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The rumor is the Hawks are trying to trade Speedy Claxton and the 19th pick in this year’s draft. I wonder who the Hawks are trying to trade for?

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MJ3,

Obviosly the MJ stands for Micheal Jackson which is why you continously respond to me with something gay related. How about this. Eat a —-.

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Big Ray said, “he cant speak English properly.” Wtf is that all about? Hate him or love him, thats a little out of line. Did you know that Josh Smith recieved the ACADEMIC AWARD at Oak Hill Academy for the HIGHEST GPA maintained during his senior season? I didn’t think so.

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RealSquawk, Terrell Barron,

Come on, now. You know that wasn’t me posting on that blog this morning. Here’s the problem with spoofing me: Yes, it’s fun, but you have to emulate my style. It really should be simple. I use humor and sarcasm, I talk WAY too much (yes, I know that’s like a crackhead admitting to trying crack every now and then), but I still make sense. Most of the time. I think. I DO make sense, don’t I? Hello? Hello!

No, seriously, you can usually tell by the long-windedness if nothing else. Yes, I can accurately poke fun at myself. The other thing is, if I change my mind dramatically, you will at least get a Mea Culpa to go along with it, usually.

Kirk,

Hey, that’s not fair. Oh wait, yes it is! It’s all too funny. As much noise as I make about Smith, when this blog popped up, I really didn’t want to say anything. How’s THAT for irony? Oh well. When choosing which bait to take, you may as well take the one that tastes good.

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I’m okay with trading Josh Smith for whatever makes sense, and makes us better. I’m NOT okay with trading him just for the sake of trading him, or to make this team look more balanced on paper, but far less talented on the court.

To echo the sentiments of others, I have some time ago leaned toward the idea that Josh will remain a scapegoat in Atlanta until he becomes a genuine hero. I truly believe that he cannot do well under the pressures of a “hometown kid” and high profile. At the same time, I will NOT use this as an excuse for the things he does wrong. His play is due to the decisions he makes, his abilities, and the system he plays in. And you can divide that into a pie graph any way you like. I just believe that playing here in Atlanta DOES in fact make things more difficult.

Now you take a guy like Derrick Rose, I think he’s made for it. But then, the Bulls have gone further, quicker than anybody expected. Let things turn sour for any reason (bad coaching, injuries, idiotic GM moves), and we’ll see what he’s made of. Will the fans of Chicago love him as they loved MJ? Will they be more loyal and less acidic than Atlanta fans? But to be fair, will the Hawks give their fans as much to love as the Bulls have given theirs? Let’s be honest, the Bulls have had it rough without MJ.

But, I maintain that Smith, for all his faults and quirks, for all his incredible talents and abilities, was still never picked to lead this franchise. He wasn’t picked high in the draft (he actually slipped down some spots). He wasn’t a #2, #3, #5, #6, or even a #11 draft choice. We know the names of the guys we picked at those draft slots. Josh was a #17.

Smith was not acquired from another team, pinning our hopes for the future on him. We didn’t give up $70 million, two first round draft picks, and a talented but misused forward for him. We only paid him $58 million because ANOTHER team tried to sign him for that much, and added a trade kicker in because they knew they’d want to keep him if we failed to match the offer.

Nope. No huge expectations when we got him, were there? So when did these huge expectations arise? When did he get more attention than the five lottery pick players we have? When did he begin to receive as much criticism as the coach, and (I argue) even MORE than the man we’re supposed to be building a contender around? Amazing how far this has come. Maybe it was because he won the dunk contest one year, hell I don’t know. Maybe it was because out of the guys we’ve come to expect things from, he’s risen to the forefront the most.

Maybe it’s because he is STILL the most dynamic guy in a Hawks uniform. Maybe it’s because his good plays shine so brightly that his bad plays are so ugly in contrast. ‘Tis the curse of fame, and being such a dynamic player.

To be fair, Marvin rarely gets as ardent a defense. But then, look at his impact on the game. With the exception of a game or two here and there, he is cursed with the thing we call consistency. The very thing we scream about Josh Smith not having. The problem is, we want Josh to be a consistent highlight reel. We want him to be consistently great. ESPN highlights great. Not a completely unreasonable desire, but even a much more polished Joe Johnson hasn’t been able to do that (see: playoffs and spurts during the regular season), whether you want to blame it on injuries and fatigue. Ask Dwyane Wade about that, and don’t act like he’s got it ANY easier than Joe…

What if Josh stopped making huge plays, and just made adequate/average, steady ones like Marvin? What if he averaged a helpful, but humble 15 or 16 and 8 every game. You know what would happen. You’d be talking about him just like you do Marvin: ready to trade his ass in a New York second for somebody more exciting, more dynamic. Oh yes, we love to try and have it both ways. We all do.

Josh might make that big step next year. Or he might continue to be as maddeningly inconsistent as Astro Joe very correctly notes that Lamar Odom can be. I have to argue with Joe just a bit that I think Josh could/would be somewhat better and more consistent playing elsewhere, with a more defined role. But I agree that this is no GUARANTEE that he will become TRULY consistent, in the way that we claim we want him to be.

But if you can afford Marvin another year to get better, you can afford Josh the same. Substitute one year of NBA ball for one year under Roy Williams and tell me which was a better experience for the given player. Perhaps not a fair or even good analogy, but it is what it is. Consider that learning curves are not the same, and that the NBA is NOT a place to learn the fundamentals. If you don’t have those fundamentals, you are already behind the curve, which is exactly where Josh is. Trade him as he may be rounding the curve at your own risk.

By the way, two things.

One, for those who say Marvin was showing improvement before he was injured, you are correct. But do not forget that he became injured at the END of the season, meaning that his improvement was happening later, rather than sooner. Also, Josh was injured at the beginning of the season, and it lingered long after he came back onto the court. It’s not an excuse for his lack of effort, bad decision making, and other issues (like with his coach), but to reject it out of hand as a factor is nothing more than convenience of a skewed point of view.

Two, if you think my suggested “steady numbers” of 15 and 8 for Josh were a bit low, then consider this: If we expect Marvin’s game and Horford’s game to expand and contribute more, JJ to do what he does or better next year, and Bibby to stick around, that’s about all you can reasonably expect from Josh. Yes, that would mean his numbers go down. But that’s how it’s going to be in a backcourt dominated offense (where you have a shooting pg in a guy like Bibby), or even in an offense that involves the frontcourt more. Hey, this is NOT going to be a team of 20-point scorers.

Having Josh’s two frontcourt mates expand their games, and therefore their roles, is following the Detroit model. Look at those successful Detroit teams under Larry Brown (and less so under Flip Saunders), and see that the numbers guys like Prince, Hamilton, and Wallace put up were sub-20ppg type numbers.

As Sekou said, be careful what you wish for…

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I have a question. Everyone says Smith is hard to coach. But how come we ever hear about him getting into it with Woody, and not the assistant coaches? Does it happen and we don’t know? Or is it just Woody isn’t good at handling a personality like Smith? How many times did you see Phil Jackson get into it with Dennis Rodman? They call Smith a hothead, but it may be because he’s the ONLY player on the team that actually talks to the referees (besides Zaza). JJ only shakes his head and run back down court.

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Ramon, Woody has never said that Smith is hard to coach. He has never “thrown Smith under the bus” in the media. So I doubt that his assistants would make such a statement when the head coach has refused to say anything like that.

To my knowledge, George Karl has never been quoted as saying that JR Smith is hard to coach, but there were still reports that Karl and Smith rarely spoke to each other last season.

If Woody wants Smith off his team (and with one year left on his contract, I doubt very seriously that he wants to lose his lone shot blocker), then announcing that dude is hard to coach would be a monumental bonehead move.

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Well, one thing’s for sure, Memphis sure as hell made it harder for the Hawks to get rid of Josh! That $6 mil upfront and huge contract the Hawks are saddled with come thanks the Michael Heisley.

And Sekou…Kwame Brown was’t the primary target in the Pau Gasol trade. Memphis received Kwame Brown (expiring contract), Aaron McKie (sign and trade throw-in), Javaris Crittendon, the draft rights to Marc Gasol and first round picks in 2008 and 2010. They also got a conditional draft pick for sending Crittendon to Washington. Draft picks, Marc Gasol and salary cap room ain’t exactly “twizzlers” for a team in rebuilding mode. Yes I think they could have done better, but it’s hardly the worst deal ever. The Grizz certainly weren’t going to win with Pau (much like the Hawks aren’t going to win with J-Smoove) so why not get rid of the contract?

By the way, Josh to Knicks – can you imagine him running and gunning in D’Antoni’s system? Won’t need any discipline there!

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Good points, Astro Joe.

I think Josh has not realized just how important it is for him to show up defensively every game. Then again, so many people say he’s only good for a weak-side shot blocker, and is horrible on defense otherwise. Another case of trying to have it both ways (though this accusation is certainly not aimed at you). I disagree with this point of view, as he is able to affect the game defensively in more ways than that.

And one reason I think he’s failed to come to each game bent on wrecking the other team’s offense is because he’s too concerned with stepping up on offense. While part of this is most certainly his fault (lack of focus and discipline), we cannot ignore the fact that he’s also been the team’s second leading scorer for the third year in a row. Marvin is more consistent, and Bibby is more deadly from the perimeter when hot, yet neither have been able to produce more on average.

I don’t think Smith is mature enough to do both at the same time (Be the top defensive/energy player AND be the #2 scoring option). And clearly, he has leaned toward the latter more than the former. Of course, we can discuss/speculate/argue all day why that is.

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What will it be Hawks, Deal or No Deal?

“No Deal”

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I HOPE JOSH LEAVES!!! HE DIDN’T WANT TO BE WITH THE HAWKS ANYWAY! HE SIGNED WITH THE GRIZZLES & THE HAWKS MATCHED THE OFFER! SO THERE IS A FACT!!! I KNOW SEVERAL POWER HOUSE TEAMS THAT WANT HIM NOW!!! SO KEEP RUNNING YOUR MOUTH & THE HAWKS JUST MIGHT GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT! A CHANCE TO SEE JOSH SMITH EXPLODE WITH A REAL POWER HOUSE TEAM, & FANS IN ATLANTA WILL BE STILL ROCKING SMITH JERSEY’S FROM HIS HIS NEW TEAM! LOL

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Depressed Hawks Fan,

My point was that some guys don’t handle the “hometown hero” thing so well. Josh is one of them, I think. Billups and Davis got their NBA starts in other places before coming back home, Rose has been good so far, Lebron is arguably the best in the game, and Dwight Howard is down the road in Orlando, not Atlanta. But hey, we can all WISH he was here….

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“Be careful what you wish for…” huh? Well, like Ray I wish most for June basketball in Atlanta, and I’m fine with moving any players on the side if it’ll get us – quickly – to that fateful day. I’m not for ill-advised and stupid moves that push us farther away from the O’Brien trophy. I don’t support moving a player simply because a lame duck coach fancies him gone (not saying that’s what’s driving this rumored shopping), but if that’s to be averted the GM has to have a vision that extends beyond the short-term interests of the head coach. The GM can’t hold fast to the attitude that it’s just his job to ’shop for the groceries’ while the head coach – exclusively – determines the system and style of play.

Over the past several years the Hawks ‘brain trust’ have spoken eloquently about playing a brand of basketball that’s exciting for the fans to watch. I reckon the notion was lots of dunks, MADE 3s, and that sort of thing. Yet there doesn’t appear to have been much of a marriage between the assembled talent and the coaching philosophy if the aim was exciting basketball. Moreover, there’s been even less of tryst between the assembled players, the coaching philosophy, and what should have been management’s real quest for Larry O’Brien (with or without high flying dunks and 3s flying from all points round Philips).

Someone with more than simple ‘walking around sense’ needs to decide what system of professional basketball has the greatest likelihood of giving us June men’s basketball in Atlanta in 2010, 2011, etc (is it really retro Detroit?), hire THE coach (and assistants) most adept at implementing this system, select and retain ‘usable’ pieces from the the current talent pool, use all other pieces and full financial capabilities to assemble the highest quality and character of players available (and ‘availability’ should be broadly interpreted) to effectively execute that system, then go to work. Either that or sell the franchise to an entity that is willing and financially capable of doing so. If we believe we’ve got the system (really?) and the coaches (REALLY?), then what’s left is determining who should be kept (”I’ll need a year to evaluate”), who to ship, and when/where to start the shopping trip. Can’t afford ANY sacred cows, unless of course we are more infatuated with the player than serious about pursuing a June visit by Mr. O’Brien.

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Rod from college park

How do I know they will better? Because they have improved since they have been here, but Josh has REGRESSED. Do you realize he has been on this team the longest, and we have been waiting for this UPSIDE!!!!
UPSIDE…is nice when a person is making 2 million. When he is making 10 million, we need performance.

YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN AL OR JOSH, BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH PF. THE ONLY THING JOSH DOES BETTER THAN AL IS DUNK!!!!

When you compare AL, Josh and Marvin remember, Josh(15.5pts, 7rebs) makes 3 million more than Marvin(13.9pts, 6rebs)and 6 million more than Al(11.3pts, 8rebs).

WILL SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHY WE CONTINUE TO PAY HIM 10 MILLION A YEAR…IS IT BEACUSE HE HAS NICE DUNKS????

PS…FIRE WOODY

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[...] chatted up teams about the prospect of trading Smith, I know it’s been discussed internally. Atlanta Journal Constitution him and the coach always butting heads, this unlike most rumors lately in the NBA could happen [...]

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The Hawks do not need to trade Josh Smith away. The Hawks have a guard/forward heavy bench, so they need to dwindle down the bench. We actually need a true center (2) like Marcus Camby, or Gortat; both are available. Josh Smith needs to move to small forward, and Al Horford to power forward where each of their talents and skills will be utilized best!

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[...] rumor mill claims that the Hawks are thinking of moving their high-flying forward: “If you believe what you read, and I’ll warn you that you can’t always do that where NBA [...]

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SHABBA said, “you can’t say One single game when he was on the floor that he didn’t rep the A!!! & leave it all on the floor!!!”

Shabba, please explain this box score (specifically rebounds)… and check out what the equally inconsistent Lamar Odom did as well.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=290217013

I don’t want Smith traded but let’s not act like dude “leaves it all on the floor each and every game ” because that is just simply not true. There are very, very few guys who truly have that work ethic…. and Smith isn’t one of them.

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That was a great post ray.

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I was thinking what we could get in return for Josh Smith and came up with this:

Atlanta trades: Josh Smith, Acie Law, and Speedy Claxton(expiring contract)

for

Phoenix gives: Shaq and both there picks(although if they dont give two take the one).

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Now y’all stop all this fuss!

Y’all know deep down in your hearts that that boy is GONE!

Boy is uncoachable and that is why mama knows this story ain’t no story. Y’all know it’s now. That’s why y’all doing all this fussing.

Now who is gonna help mama make a big THANK YOU card to send to Josh on his way out of town?

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Dan,

I think this trade would work…

Speedy Claxton
19th Pick

FOR

Marc Gasol
Cash
Grizziles 2nd Rd. Pick

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AJ,

Isn’t that exactly what Josh was doing the first 5 games until he hurt his ankle?

I thought at the beginning of the year, that he was the most disruptive on D that I had ever seen him be. Then the high ankle sprain, and poof!

But I agree with the premise that he could and should earn his stripes on the defensive end. BUT, and It’s a BIG BUT (not a big BUTT, that would be Marvin) the SCHEME has to maximize his God-given ability or he could end up hurting us by trying to “make something happen” more than playing within the scheme.

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Trade Marvin Williams, Acie Law and our draft pick for Tracy McGrady, then we are a contender

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Mike,

Trade Marvin Williams, Acie Law AND our picks for some ol’ n’ rusty Tracy McGrady? No way, man, no way!

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ding!

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Jason you lost credibility when u said the kid cant pass… he’s an excellent passer…

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Jason,

It’s all because of Mike Woodson. Mike Woodson is a confidence killer. The reason why I’m holding Woody accountable is because he’s the coach! The coach has to be the role model, not the player. Again, this is a young team, and you have to raise them, just like they’re your own kids. Teaching them from right and wrong (on a basketball standpoint, and even in life), and what ever else goes with being a good basketball player or coach. If you can’t teach all those intangbles, than you’ll be better of gone.

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Sautee, yes, that is exactly what he did in the first few games of the season. And whoever developed the early season defensive scheme did a great job of utilizing Smith effectively. But I wouldn’t let him off the hook simply because of the injury. Eventually, he was able to regain his energy on the offensive end. And that 0 rebound performance against the Lakers came after the ASG break. I think his priorities changed. He went from a DPOY mindset to something less than DPOY. Or, at least, I think it is more likely that the player changed vs. the scheme that led to a 5-0 record.

And if Mike Woodson is the reason why Smith isn’t all he can be, then if he ever reaches that promised land, let’s make sure that his coach gets all the credit and the player ets none. You simply can’t have it both ways. Coach prohibits player from success but when player gains success, he is the one to praise.

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Bill C. – Can’t see Memphis making a deal with the Hawks. True they wanted Josh last summer, but that was as a free agent. Conley played well second half of last year and Hollins likes him. Ceratinly wouldn’t give him up for Acie. I think the Josh to Memphis ship has sailed. Memphis looking for a true PF anyway.

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bigdave,

I think you lost your credibility when you said “TRADE HORFORD.” So glass houses and stones and all that.

I’d say 4/9, 5, 6, and 8 on Jason’s list are valid-esque (ie they’re things that cause Josh problems pretty consistently).

Passing is something he’s getting gradually better at. It’s actually the one facet of his game that I did.

I’d say his jump shot is streaky rather than plain bad. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like the kind of thing that is likely to improve without completely re-working his shooting form (which is a very risky thing to try mid-way through a player’s career). The form on his jump shot has that hitch in it – like Rashard Lewis’s, but more pronounced. Rashard moves the ball back before going forward on his release, but he has a much smoother and quicker release than Josh, who actually pauses with the ball above his head for a split second before bringing it forward for the shot. That creates two issues; 1) the hitch means more things can go wrong during the motion on his shot, which makes it more prone to streakiness; and 2) even when he’s “hot,” the hitch gives him a slow release, which allows defenders to play more off him when he’s on the perimeter.

Ariose sent out this mix of Josh yesterday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY3y7d8-fdU

He takes a long jumper starting around 2:20. When he gets the ball, he’s wide open – no defenders were within 8 feet of him. By the time he releases it, one defender was right in his face and another was less than 3 feet away. (You also can see what I mean about the hitch…he brings the ball up and back before going forward with it).

(Incidentally, that highlight reel has one sequence where he goes coast to coast and makes it look good. But you KNOW everyone’s heart was stopped during that sequence.)

Anyway, that isn’t enough reason to dump him and his issues certainly aren’t all his fault…not even close. In fact, I’d argue the only thing on that list that would be hard to improve even with the right coaching is his ballhandling (which is the one skill that you either have or you don’t by time you’re a few years into the NBA, from what I’ve seen). Put him with the right coach, and all the rest improve.

But with Woody, Josh is standing on the perimeter half the time, doesn’t have anyone showing him how to play on-ball post defense, and doesn’t have anyone teaching him low post moves. That makes it damned hard to judge how many of his shortcomings are his own rather than Woody’s.

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And of course, that list doesn’t list the equally impressive things that Josh does well – namely playing help defense and skying for rebounds. If he focused enough, he could grab 11-12 rebounds a game with little difficulty thanks to his size, strength, and athleticism. My fear is that if we do trade him, a coach somewhere else WILL get him to focus, and we’ll be watching him become a 20/10 guy.

The frustrating thing is, what do you do with him as long as we have Woody? Josh isn’t KG. He doesn’t have such a consistent laser-beam focus that he’ll improve and grow on his own within the system he’s given. It’s tough for me to see him becoming much better than the ‘07-’08 model (which was pretty damned good, but not All-Star level) as long as Woody stays the coach and lets us operate without an offensive scheme that exploits his potential.

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Rufus1,

“YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN AL OR JOSH, BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH PF. THE ONLY THING JOSH DOES BETTER THAN AL IS DUNK!!!!”

Your GM feels that Horford is a center. How about Josh scores better, blocks shots better, passes better, and shows up in more games.

“When you compare AL, Josh and Marvin remember, Josh(15.5pts, 7rebs) makes 3 million more than Marvin(13.9pts, 6rebs)and 6 million more than Al(11.3pts, 8rebs).”

Josh makes more now because he is on his second contract, and has earned the right to make more money than Al and Marvin. That is how the NBA works. If we looked at Marvin’s stats, he should actually make less next year than he did this year, but that will not happen. It is the business of basketball.

Marvin 2008 stats

61 59 34.3 .458 .355 .806 1.80 4.50 6.30 1.3 .93 .64 1.15 2.10 13.9

Marvin 2007 stats

80 80 34.6 .462 .100 .822 1.50 4.20 5.70 1.7 1.01 .41 1.59 2.80 14.8

“WILL SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHY WE CONTINUE TO PAY HIM 10 MILLION A YEAR…IS IT BEACUSE HE HAS NICE DUNKS????”

We pay him that amount because another team was willing to give him that amount, and we felt the need to match the contract offer. What you really need to do is compare his stats to other power forwards in the league who have the same amount of production, and have been in the league for more than 3 years, and you will see that we actually got him at a discount.

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doc:

On that trade, I thought JORDAN HILL at #5 might give the HAWKS a PF at 6′10″ and CARON would come closer than any other #3 to replace JOSH. Also, J-CRIT is a player and will be heard from in this league. Figured him to replace BIBBY. WIZ need to be able to negotiate and sign CHILDRESS for a trade, and McGEE is an absolute must have to back-up HAYWOOD. THOMAS is still signed for three years, but everybody knows he’s done. You saw what happened when HAYWOOD went out in pre-season. It wasn’t AGENT ZERO they missed so much as BRENDEN. So no trade, sorry, but nice to get diverted from baseball for a few. BTW, I’m sayin’ SMITH stays, and both PACHULIA and BIBBY are history in an ATLANTA uni. Be cool. Later.

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NIRE AT LEAST JOSH DIDNT GET TIRED. man go and look at the stretch jj didnt get a friggin steal …….. NOT ONE. 30 games i think it was,th is shameful to awful nor did he block a shot. also josh reinjured his ankle during the season and it was a recurring theme.

folks are fools for jumping josh’s case and it goes way beyond the player deep into the subcscious mind the hate is so great. this is a kid who should be ready to take the keys of the city instead we see so many judas’judges among us detracting him at every faux false step. funny stuff guys.

sautee points out how little josh shot the deep ball and if memory serves me it was less than 1.5 times a game and also points lucidly to the FACT if he had made only six more shots though still moaning as fans, he would have had one of the better three point percentages on the team. way too much is made of his three ball and the illusion unfettered here unwisely.

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2010 wish full thinking
STARTERS ACIE, LEBRON, CHILL, JOSH, BOSH.
BENCH FLIP, MOE, HAKIM WARRICK, CHARLIE V, ZAZA,
RESERVE SOLO, WEST.
this team will be a dynasty and win 5nba titles and ASG WILL TRIPLE THERE PROFIT EVERY YEAR AND NEVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT MONEY ANY MORE.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!

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nire…

wasnt taking a shot at the blogger… but his assessment of Smiths skill/ability… true there is a degree of fact to all his points but his main premise was that Josh was a “souped up Trevor Ariza” gotta disagree with that…

as far as my comment, “TRADE HORFORD”.. u know glass houses and all that…
we are all talking in hypothetical sense when it comes to these trades. in my opinion if we were to trade a big it would be Al Horford. who TO ME has far less upside than a Josh Smith. you are welcome to disagree. ive seen about all i can see of his sub par, unpolished, college, post game (but dont ask me to guard him ). he is a good piece, but no building block. honestly, i never liked the pick once i heard the rumors that PHX wanted the 2 picks for Amare. i thought his offensive game would progress year 2 based on what i saw his rookie campaign, but that optimism has died. u can make the argument for him playing out of position but i think he is playing the position that best suits his game. i dont see him guarding a large % PF in the league let alone division. he is more expendable then Smith from a production stand point. especially when you take in consideration our 1 on 1 “iso” schemes.. Josh can at times be hell for his opponents where Horford usually looks a hot mess… slow, robotic, indecisive, and that jab step that nobody bites on… hideous… just my opinion but i appreciate your intrigue.

house looking 4 sided brick right now huh…

Najeh i see where yall are going with that Turk inclusion, would be all thats needed to create mismatches and replace Bibby’s threat from deep… but wonder what it would take to get it done.. they need rebounding help….? hmmmm… i know of a solid rebounder… AL HORFORD

i tell ya.. i want Bosh.. a big we could used to play high low with Joe… kinda how LA uses Pau and Kobe… a versatile Big who can pass, shoot, and finish.. a versatile Guard who can work on the block and pass to potential slashers, say a Marvin…

OTHERWISE JOSH IS UNTOUCHABLE

AL<Josh

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and Nire did i mention the pool in the back… of that 4 sided brick… 2, 3 topless women…

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Holy sh*t, you know doc means business when he uses capital letters…

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big dave,

Al is a second year player. Wait until his 4th year, and THEN compare him with Josh if you want to be fair.

Also, Hedo is an unrestricted free agent, so there’s no need to get rid of Horford (sorry), but if we DID sign him, I’d expect that we’d let Marvin go in a sign and trade.

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Rod/Sam,

No, you’re still a dumba$$. Ariza couldn’t crack the rotation in Orl. He got to LA, played alongside Kobe and sudenly became better. GEE I WONDER WHY.

Your beyond retarded if you think that Marvin wouldn’t have done even more than Ariza did if he’d been in LA. Seriously, what happened? Did Marvin steal yr girlfriend or screw yr mama or somethin? Why are you always tearin at his jock?

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Rod,

I agree totally that Prince is better. Totally. My point at the time was the “bang for the buck”, and not which player was more talented, or more valuable to their team.

And I DO remember your saying that about Ariza. Good call, though I’d probably say there’s less difference between them than you would. Ariza certainly improved more and more as the year went on, and made himself some serious moolah in the playoffs. Good for him.

And hey, we disagreed on some things, but I never thought you were a dumba$$. I know about your education, remember?

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Najeh,

agreed

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Shabba,

please stop shouting

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Lets take a quick look at the last 4 years of JJ and Josh Smith

JJ FG% FGM-A

2005-2006 .453 632-1395
2006-2007 .471 536-1139
2007-2008 .432 647-1497
2008-2009 .437 620-1420

One could argue JJ has plataued. The addition of Bibby has not helped his shooting percentage. In most efficient year, (2006-2007, pre Bibby) he shot less.

JS

2005-2006 .425 329-774
2006-2007 .436 436-993
2007-2008 .457 518-1183
2008-2009 .492 418-849

JS has not plataued yet. Injury in 2008-2009 kept his shooting attempts down. Even though his points per game were down he was much more efficient. I believe we have no choice but to keep him another year. Will he become a all star? I don’t know. Four years in a row he has improved. He is still 23. He can jump out of the gym and is the only Hawk player who can take over periods of the game on defense.

Lets take a quick look at Flip and Bibby last year.

Bibby FG% FGM-A

2008-2009 .435 .437-1005

Flip

2008-2009 .447 355-795

Flip has the highest shooting percentage of our jump shooting guards. If you look at the volume of shots and the shooting percentage, you can argue the combined three, (JJ, Bibby, Flip) shoot to much, and not shoot well enough for the Hawks to go to the next level.

We know Woody likes to play a short bench. Lets look at why Marvin and Chills are so important to be signed.

Marvin FG% FGM-A

2006-2007 .433 306-706
2007-2008 .462 424-918
2008-2009 .458 285-622

Chills

2006-2007 .504 261-518
2007-2008 .571 327-573
2008-2009 - -

These guys take smarter shots. Their volume of shots was increasing. (except for the Marvin injury in 2008-2009).

Keys to winning. Our guards need to shoot less and play front court first. I did not get into Al, ZaZa, and Solo. Their shooting percentages are much higher than the guards. We do not need more back court shooting. We just need a pg who drive and feed our big men or kick it back out. A pg who can keep turnovers down and play good defense. We do not need a shooter.
Chills, JJ and Flip can fill in at point if needed. We have got to find a way to dump the 19 million in salary in Speedy and Bibby. Resign the rest and go balling.

There are players that are not perfect but play pretty well like Drew Goodon who can be had for a couple of million. I put Flip and Evans in this group. If they continue to be cheap – keep them. If Woody would play Solo more I think he would improve.

We keep hearing that our back court is dangerous, The numbers just don’t prove it out. Let me rephrase – they are good, good enough to make the playoffs. Good enough to make the top three seeds on the play offs? I don’t think so.

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Wow! Amazing how a piece of rumour is stirring up Hawks fans. I can’t believe so much fuss over a rumour. What if Josh was actually traded? What kind of outcry would there be then? Wow!

Folks need to calm down and stop getting carried away. This is the same Josh Smith we all blogged endlessly on about last off season when his contract situation was uncertain. Now he’s signed to a multi-year contract and we are still talking about him being traded THIS off-season? This is nuts!

Josh ain’t going nowhere, folks. If he’s traded, expect it to be for an impact player. Seriously, unless you are getting an all star or a potential all star in return, you don’t trade your most exciting player. Josh was the best Hawk during the playoffs. He even upped his free throw percentage. Some Hawks had memorable one games, but Josh was the most consistent, and the only starter that played with the most emotions. Josh will get better, people. All he has to do is improve his defects, and he will be an all star. any team would salivate to have that guy on their team. Hawks are lucky to have him. Why give him up for unproven picks?

I think playing in your hometown should be a benefit, more than a distraction, if you have a well grounded family network. You at least stay out of trouble, get advice from folks you admire and look up to. Also, I would be inspired to play every night for my family and girl.

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Sautee, yes I recall doc’s theory about the high ankle sprain. Just never understood how the ankle impaired his ability to block out but not his ability to catch the alley-oop pass.

Hey, I’m no fan but I also have repeatedly said that we shouldn’t trade him. He frustrates me to no end… but I’m not anxious to dump him. And certainly not for draft picks.

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Ariose,

I saw this article from Marc Stein on ESPN.com.

“One trusted scout told me this week that he is convinced free agent-to-be Rasheed Wallace would be a better counter to Dwight for the Cavs than Shaq — given his history of one-on-one defensive success against Howard and the fact that Sheed’s perimeter-based offensive game would help keep the lane open for LeBron”.

I know you’ve been on the sign Sheed bandwagon, and I like Sheed as well. I’m just concerned about his $8 mil price tag, and also the fact that we’d have to move Horford to the bench.

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Sautee…

im actually only using the “greater than… less than” symbols as it relates to their value to the team. to me Al<Josh… therefore, i would trade Al before Josh. it wouldnt be fair to compare their games that would be Josh in a landslide…

however, i do look at Al and his skill relative to other bigs who were highly touted coming out of college; Emeka, Bogut, Lamarcus… all showed growth, progression, maturation in their game year to year (1st to 2nd even)… like i said, its as if his offensive game has regressed… i think Josh’s jumper will get better before his post game… and if that happens its curtains for whomever draws Josh as an assignment…

as far as Turk, wasnt aware of his status… if we could afford him there would definitely be no Marvin…

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I would rather go to a Hawks basketball game to see a high-flying Josh Smith than a slow, plodding Joe Johnsonn any day, that’s all I’m saying. Love Joe and all, love all he’s done for the Hawks, but no way would I give up on Josh, man! If Josh had stayed in college, he would probably be a rookie or 2nd year player by now.

What I would do is keep the core intact right now. Hawks will not win a championship in the next 2 or 3 years unless they make some serious moves, anyway. And based on cap restraints, I don’t see the ASG spending more than they want to. So you have to develop your core, and make smart additions. We need to remember that 1-2 years ago, Hawks were bottom feeder of the league. Then last year they made the playoffs and took Boston to 7 in the 1st round. This year, they got to the semi’s. It’s a progressive process, people. Unless you are willing to spend wildly and go over the cap like Boston, a championship won’t happen overnight. You have to build on your current progress, and make smart enough moves to keep your ball club improving every year.

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Melvin,

Hey, what can I say. I try!

RealSquawk,

I am not trying to gain sympathy for Smith. I’m pointing out how so much is expected of him when he’s neither the highest picked (by far), nor the highest paid (3rd ONLY because he was offered that by another team that actually wanted him). I am well aware of his deficiencies, believe me.

Niremetal,

What was wrong with JJ all year that had him playing hurt the whole time? I know he was hurt towards the end, and in the playoffs. But are we really going to excuse his play for hurt (hey, he had some good games while he was “hurt”), then turn around and say that the high ankle sprain was bad, but he looked fine later? Well, yeah, I guess we are. Some things never change. Wondering what the mystery injury was.

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Doc,

You’re somewhere off in left field today. I never advocated trading Josh, and you make it sound like I called for his head. I don’t. I think we should keep him unless we get an offer that blows us away. And by that, I mean either an All-Star in his prime, a young, healthy starting center, or Blake Griffin. And I’d move Marvin for any of those things too. And other than that, I wouldn’t entertain offers for Josh.

That being said, I don’t accept hurt ankles or knees or feet or anything else as an excuse for missed free throws. Lots of players IMPROVE their free shooting when they have lower body injuries. They realize that their limited mobility means that they need to work more on that aspect of their game, and they do. That’s why you see so many guys get become free throw shooters as they get older even as every other aspect of their game declines. And don’t think it’s limited to guards and “shooters.” Yao improved his free throw shooting after he hurt his foot. Immediately. Before his first injury, he was a career 79% free throw shooter. Since his injury, he’s averaged 86%. Same thing with Zydrunas Ilgauskas. When you have a lower body injury, shooting free throws is one of the things you can do in rehab that involves picking up a basketball. Besides, you don’t miss 10 free throws in a row because of a lingering bad ankle injury after you’d averaged 18ppg over the previous month. It was a lack of focus. So no pass for Josh on the missed free throws. None. And I will say the same damned thing about ANY player who can’t hit his free throws at ANY time. It’s the one thing I don’t accept anyone’s excuses about.

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Ray,

Sekou reported that JJ was playing on a hurt foot during the playoffs, but no one seemed to notice because of the more serious injuries to Al and Marvin. Gearon gave that interview that I linked a couple times to the Atlanta Business Chronicle where he said that Joe’s foot had been hurt for the whole second half of the season, but that it went “undisclosed.” I don’t know why it was undisclosed, but my guess is that it was strategic – ie so that opposing defenses would still respect his ability to get in the lane and score. But hey, I wasn’t in on the coaching staff or training staff meetings, so I don’t know.

JJ was inconsistent throughout the second half of the year. Yeah, he had a good game here and there, but they all seemed to be of the same kind – he was hitting long bombs, not spinning and floating in the lane like he used to.

And I certainly do think Josh’s injury had SOME lingering effects. But people make it sound like absent his injury, he would have improved this year. My point is simply…no, I don’t think he would have. I think what’s holding Josh back from being a 20/10 guy is psychological more than physical. Because there’s no reason he shouldn’t be averaging 10-11 rebounds a game each of the past two years. I mean the dude’s max vertical reach is 1 inch less than D-12’s and equal to what KG’s was at his age.

Well, I am missing out on one obvious limiting factor. I’ll give you a hint. His name rhymes with Goodson. I think a better coach WOULD have gotten Josh to crash the glass more. And I’ve said it many times – with a coach who knew how to use him right, Josh would be a 20/10 (or more likely, 18/12) guy.

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Co-sign Ray’s last post re: Astro Joe. Except that I think it’s a bit misleading to say that Josh was the one who stepped up the most when JJ was hurting. In the playoffs, that certainly was true…but at that point, both Marvin and Horford were also hurt, so who else was there besides Bibby, Flip, Mo, and Zaza (well, Thomas Gardner, but that’s another story…)?

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BigDave,

I agree that Josh has probably the most trade value of the Hawks’ forwards. Al Horford would rival him due to the rookie contract, but he’s not as dynamic, and the kinds of teams that want him are the kind that are either without a decent center of any kind, or more likely the ones who are looking for a rugged, “do the dirty work guy” to put next to the center they have.

Ken Strickland,

What gets me is that while people don’t like Josh’s emotional side, they still want that dynamic, energetic player. Can’t have it both ways, I’m afraid. Alonzo Mourning was very emotional, too. So is Rasheed. And how many people are out here hollering for Rasheed. He of the emotional outburst and the Marvin Williams-like numbers…I’m not saying don’t go get ‘Sheed. I just laugh at the irony. The numbers just don’t lie, even if they only tell part of the story. I’ll agree that Wallace is far more focused than Smith. But I’ll also say that to get what you need out of him, you MUST have a coach whom he respects. Otherwise, you get out of him what he’s giving NOW, which ain’t $hit.

Speaking of which, I recall an excellent coach by the name of Chuck Daly (RIP), who once said, “This is a player’s league. If the players don’t respect you, you will never be successful.”

Rings true.

Mike Woodson says he has to push the right buttons. He’s right. More right than even his staunchest supporters can seem to understand.

Look, I never liked Larry Brown, but the results are undeniable (except in New York, where there was clearly something else going on besides honest work). He got results in Philly, with a very hard to work with Iverson. He got results in Detroit with ‘Sheed, Big Ben, and the others. He has the Bobcats playing well, strapped for talent though they are.

Stan Van Gundy gets on my nerves. I hate his voice. Nobody can deny how well he had the Magic playing. He made some mistakes in the series against the Lakers (Jameer vs. Alston, if you ask me). But his ability to get so much out of a group of guys I never thought would make the Eastern Finals is undeniable.

We can go back and forth about players vs. coach until we are blue in the face. Coaches are responsible for the maximizing what players, and therefore teams, can do. Coaches are responsible for motivating, guiding, and developing. They design the systems. They come up with the “schemes.” And they draw up the plays.

Players are responsible for every single move they make on the floor. They’re responsible for every shot, every dribble, every position they take on every play.

To say that a team wins or loses based on energy alone is foolhardy on a good day. Misguided energy is chaotic and inconsistent, but if the talent of the team is of a high enough level, they will win enough to look good. This describes the Hawks, players and coaches alike.

Neither coaches nor players deserve full credit individually when things go well, or when they don’t. We can’t blame Mike Woodson for everything, anymore than we can blame whatever players we’ve decided to target, for everything.

I am so sick of people saying things like “well, the coach can’t shoot the ball or grab the rebound for the player”, then want to turn right around and give the coach credit when the player scores 20+ and grabs 10+ rebounds.

You can give the coach credit to a point for motivating the player to do so. But you can’t give him full credit, and the player NONE. Nor can you blame the coach for a player who does not hit shots.

And for the last time, whatever Josh was doing wrong on the free throw line, it was mostly mental. If you forget to bend your knees, that’s your brain. If you release at the wrong time, that’s your brain. He got over it, and began shooting free throws better after that, and was even better in the playoffs. Why are we still talking about this, and what the f#ck does it have to do with Mike Woodson?

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Niremetal,

I did hear something about his foot being hurt the whole second half of the season. While I’m glad he’s no Tracy McGrady, that bothers me a great deal. Before I say anything about it at all, I’ll go ahead and acknowledge all the noise we’re going to hear about Woody playing him hurt because he’s job scared or whatever else crap we usually hear. This is the same guy who says he rode the hell out of Joe just so he could make the all-star game. What bologna…

I also recognize that Josh stepped up partially because Marvin and Al were hurt. And it’s not like we were going to get much more out of our $15 million dollar point guard. But if he hadn’t stepped it up, we would have lost more games. Can’t say how many, but Flip was a big help then, too.

“Damn right. And whose job might it be to get the whole team to play consistently hard every game. Hmmmmm…could it be the same guy who always says we need to play with energy? Heh”

Don’t get me started. Too late. For what it’s worth, I think Woody would do better with a veteran-dominated squad that already knew what it was doing. Even then, his ability to adjust would not help. I already know we’ll get flamed to death by the usual sources, but I just don’t care anymore.

It’s not that I want to keep slapping Woody with a “bad coach” label. But the guy SAID he had to push the right buttons. That means no matter WHO is on the roster, unless you have a serious problem child around. I don’t think we have any of those. And once more, good coach or bad, if they guys are listening to you, then you’re doing the franchise no good. See Flip Saunders: exit stage left. ‘Nuff said…

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Trading Josh Smith would be a huge mistake for this young team to make. Josh may have his faults (taking ill advised three pointers, clashing with Mike Woodson, and being a terrible ball handler) but his defense, heart, athleticism, and potential should never be questioned. I would rather we trade some of our expiring contracts this year to pick up a defensive post player and another shooter to stretch opposing defenses.

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nire, you are the one in left field as i never said or implied you thought josh should be traded, i do think you ride the kid unmercilessly, was aiming at that if anything and where you freely give a pass to jj the other guy doesnt get the love. wonder why? almost seems personal.

nire, in the end, i am betting on josh rather than a tired jj. anyway now how can you give a pass on jj and not josh. can you make up an excuse for jj’s poor free throw shooting? anyway the lesson i learned early on free throws, ultimately, they are all about the legs and why so many are missed at the end of games, if you cant bend at the knees or the ankles, mechanics are off, not an excuse just a fact dude. if you go tired legs, ala jj, you stink at the line for the same reason.

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Clark is a guy with one of the dreaded tags: lots of potential or upside. He’s turnover prone. Here’s a quick tidbit from draftexpress.com:

“Given Clark’s lack of efficiency across the board, the team that picks him will be banking on him utilizing his athleticism to his advantage to create mismatches and develop the type of consistency he’ll need to be productive.”

Okay, that about sums it up for me. We already have one forward that shoots jumpers more than he should (although that idea changes once he develops and refines that jumper), and another who we don’t give the ball to enough and won’t take charge.

Clark only fits here, metaphorically speaking that is, if Billy Knight is the GM. He ain’t. If there’s one thing I think Sund and Woody are likely to agree on, it’s NOT taking Earl Clark. Woody won’t want him, and Sund won’t see the point in adding Solo 2.0….offensive potential or not.

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Whoops, eyes gave out on Josh’s FT% highs. The 70% this year was in December, not April. The 72% career high was in ‘05-’06, not ‘07-’08.

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Big Ray…

true.. but i was just talking about overall value to the Hawks…

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Sekou, what ever happened to the 2nd round pick CENK AKYOL??
What a waste…

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Ding!

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This from Yahoo! Sports

19. Atlanta Hawks – Jeff Teague, PG, Wake Forest: No matter whether the Hawks re-sign Mike Bibby(notes), 31, they’ll probably be looking to add at point guard. Teague is quick, explosive and consistent – though he averaged only 13.9 points as a sophomore, he scored in double figures in all 30 games for the Demon Deacons. He’d be a comfortable fit in an Atlanta backcourt that features Joe Johnson(notes). The Hawks are said to be looking also at North Carolina forward Tyler Hansbrough, who is moving up on some draft boards

Teague would be a terrific pickup if he falls to #19

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Me personally I think we should do what we gotta do to get Thabet. As much as I like Smooth I’m wit Jon.

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Drafting a player with the 19pick will not serve any justice for the hawks it will be a waste of pick because of woody none devolopment of players plus we dont need any more young player im tired of hering the same old slogan we still young and we got some growing up to do coach woody favorite slogan.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

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What do we want tbone steak or pork chop a say tbone steak lets go get bosh and in 2010 let get leborn and turn the hawks into a dynasty LETS NOT FOR GET LEBRON LOVE THIS CITY.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

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HEY GUYS A NEW BLOG IS UP AND RUNNING.

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big dave,

about this: “however, i do look at Al and his skill relative to other bigs who were highly touted coming out of college; Emeka, Bogut, Lamarcus… all showed growth, progression, maturation in their game year to year (1st to 2nd even)… like i said, its as if his offensive game has regressed”

OK, I’ll give you Aldridge, but Okafor and Bogut?

Okafor’s scoring went DOWN in his second year, back up the next, and has gone DOWN since. And I’d guess he’s the third option on offense.

Bogut after 4 years is averaging 11.9 and 8.7 and he’s either the second or third option on offense. (Second while Redd was hurt) Horford’s looking pretty comparable at 10.8 and 9.5

Al is at best the 5th option (and with the minutes Flip played, he’s more like the 6th option) and yet in his second season he RAISED his scoring average with FEWER fga/gm than the year before. He also cut his turnovers and raised his assists, AND his FG %. That’s offensive progression, even if we’d all like more.

I was like you and expected a bigger bump from his offense. But you CANNOT deny that he had fewer chances with the ball than all of the players you compared him to.

Now, we can go round and round as to WHY he’s the 5th or 6th option, but it’s undeniable that he had fewer chances.

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[...] rumor mill claims that the Hawks are thinking of moving their high-flying forward: “If you believe what you read, and I’ll warn you that you can’t always do that where NBA [...]

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[...] Gerüchte um einen Trade von Atlantas Josh Smith sind kaum der Rede wert. Allerdings wurde eine Transfer des [...]

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