Be careful what you wish for …
Hey Josh Smith, true or false, the rumor mill loves you?
HAWKSVILLE - If you believe what you read, and I’ll warn you that you can’t always do that where NBA rumors are concerned, Josh Smith’s name is generating some serious buzz on the trade rumor mill as the NBA draft approaches.
ESPN.com’s NBA Insider Chad Ford claims the big rumor of the day is that the Hawks are shopping Smith (I’ve had two Hawks sources insist to me this afternoon that they aren’t shopping Smith or anything like it, but what else do you expect them to say?), hoping to find a taker for their 23-year-old power forward (the one with the $6 million trade kicker and the love-him-or-hate-him debate stuck to his profile).
Normally, I’d take my garbage extinguisher and put down a silly, Hawks-related rumor before it starts burning. But not this one.
Even if the Hawks haven’t formally chatted up teams about the prospect of trading Smith, I know it’s been discussed internally. And here’s another warning, all those wanting to vote Smith off the island better be careful what you wish for. Aside from this being a win all the way around for Smith (if anything were to happen he’d get the $6 million, a move to a potentially better situation and he’d rid himself of all those folks groaning every time he does anything other than dunk or block a shot), it’s a huge gamble for the Hawks. There’s no way you move a player as young and talented as Smith without getting someone equally young and talented in return.
And Ford is absolutely right about one thing, there are plenty of teams that would love to snatch him away from the Hawks and plant him on their frontline for the next five to seven years and see just how much better he’ll get in that time.
I say this after having numerous conversations last summer and all season long with scouts and executives from teams around the league wondering just how good Smith might be if he played in another system (no one has ever seen him anywhere but in a Hawks uniform).
They won’t have to wait much longer to get a look. My sources inform me that Smith is headed to Las Vegas next month to participate in the USA Select team’s summer workout. He’ll be working with the same elite team of young stars that Al Horford worked with last summer as they helped prepare the Olympic team for their gold medal march in Beijing. (Derrick Rose, Kevin Durant, LaMarcus Aldridge, Andre Iguodala, Rodney Stuckey, Kevin Martin and O.J. Mayo were some of the other young stars on that squad. Personally, I’d love to see Smith in that mix and see what kind of things he might do in that set up. Doesn’t sound like the kind of cat I’d be trying to get rid of, but hey, it’s not my call).
Something tells me that any NBA team wondering what Smith looks like free from the backcourt dominated system the Hawks run will be sitting in that gym in Vegas next month taking some serious notes as well. Horford earned raves from folks in attendance, many of whom asked later why they didn’t see any of that from him during the season.
It’s a legitimate question, especially for players that aren’t the No. 1 offensive option on their teams during the NBA season like Durant, Martin and Iguodala are on their teams.
Look no further than the recently completed NBA Finals for proof that patience (with talented but still developing young players) is a virtue that most teams would be wise to embrace.
Orlando had Trevor Ariza on their roster just as he was coming into his own but they couldn’t wait. It had to sting his old teammates watching him help the Lakers usher the Magic out of the Finals in five games. In fact, outside of Kobe Bryant and Derrick Fisher, the Lakers’ other main players during the series were all basically someone else’s cast offs. Miami sent Lamar Odom packing (albeit for Shaquille O’Neal). And Memphis foolishly gave up on Pau Gasol (swapping him for Kwame Brown, two passes to Six Flags over Georgia and a lifetime supply of Twizzlers … or something like that).
I’m not suggesting that teams should never trade away young talent. There are certainly times when a parting of the way works for both sides.
I’m only warning that you better know exactly what it is you are doing when you enter this realm (and we still don’t know for sure if this is only idle chatter, speculation rooted in some real conversations or just 226 words of complete nonsense designed to stoke the pre-draft flames).
Either way, the Hawks are on the clock (draft and otherwise) between now and training camp. And it appears that we aren’t the only ones watching to see what they do.
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345 comments Add your comment
bigdave
June 16th, 2009
9:50 pm
Sautee…
im actually only using the “greater than… less than” symbols as it relates to their value to the team. to me Al<Josh… therefore, i would trade Al before Josh. it wouldnt be fair to compare their games that would be Josh in a landslide…
however, i do look at Al and his skill relative to other bigs who were highly touted coming out of college; Emeka, Bogut, Lamarcus… all showed growth, progression, maturation in their game year to year (1st to 2nd even)… like i said, its as if his offensive game has regressed… i think Josh’s jumper will get better before his post game… and if that happens its curtains for whomever draws Josh as an assignment…
as far as Turk, wasnt aware of his status… if we could afford him there would definitely be no Marvin…
doc
June 16th, 2009
9:57 pm
RICHIE BRO, i guess we just demonstrated how trades dont go down as easy as fans want them to. hawks dont need a three to replace josh and they dont want or need a player to be developed to replace him in the power spot because if he goes horford moves over and my idea of mcghee would work perfect. aj said it and i concurred before reading his statements, we need sme defense for this defensive minded team. mcghee wouldnt be a back up for us dude but playing alongside horford and caron. we could also make marvin replaceable with caron saving money for something else. now if you put in a three way with the spurs so we could give them caron and we get the big fundamental then we got a deal that works all the way around. umm dont think san antoine would go for it? fantasy league here we go.
Blast
June 16th, 2009
10:10 pm
I would rather go to a Hawks basketball game to see a high-flying Josh Smith than a slow, plodding Joe Johnsonn any day, that’s all I’m saying. Love Joe and all, love all he’s done for the Hawks, but no way would I give up on Josh, man! If Josh had stayed in college, he would probably be a rookie or 2nd year player by now.
What I would do is keep the core intact right now. Hawks will not win a championship in the next 2 or 3 years unless they make some serious moves, anyway. And based on cap restraints, I don’t see the ASG spending more than they want to. So you have to develop your core, and make smart additions. We need to remember that 1-2 years ago, Hawks were bottom feeder of the league. Then last year they made the playoffs and took Boston to 7 in the 1st round. This year, they got to the semi’s. It’s a progressive process, people. Unless you are willing to spend wildly and go over the cap like Boston, a championship won’t happen overnight. You have to build on your current progress, and make smart enough moves to keep your ball club improving every year.
bigdave
June 16th, 2009
10:17 pm
Joe’s game isnt exciting…? cause he doesnt dunk when he drives…?
Big Ray
June 16th, 2009
10:23 pm
Melvin,
Hey, what can I say. I try!
RealSquawk,
I am not trying to gain sympathy for Smith. I’m pointing out how so much is expected of him when he’s neither the highest picked (by far), nor the highest paid (3rd ONLY because he was offered that by another team that actually wanted him). I am well aware of his deficiencies, believe me.
Niremetal,
What was wrong with JJ all year that had him playing hurt the whole time? I know he was hurt towards the end, and in the playoffs. But are we really going to excuse his play for hurt (hey, he had some good games while he was “hurt”), then turn around and say that the high ankle sprain was bad, but he looked fine later? Well, yeah, I guess we are. Some things never change. Wondering what the mystery injury was.
Ken Strickland
June 16th, 2009
10:29 pm
DOC-as you well know, a lot of fans tend to pick someone, usually a player, they have issues with to blame for certain disappoints. As you all know by now, HC MWoodson is my choice, while JJ, Josh, Marvin and/or Bibby seem to get the bulk of the blame from the other disgruntled fans.
Have you noticed how many JSmith haters claim he gets emotional and is too often out of control. Yet, their suggestions, attitudes and solutions for getting rid of him far too often demonstrates they are just as emotional and out of control as they claim he often is.
I make no apologies for my disdane for Woodson’s lack of overall coaching ability. I also place a heavy dose of the blame for the problems Woodson has created on the SAASG. If they insist on retaining him, it’s their responsibility to force him to do a better job of developing and properly utilizing the young talent they draft and spend the millions of dollars on. Woodson is only doing what he’s been programed to do, by his mentors, and is being allowed to do by the SAASG.
niremetal
June 16th, 2009
10:33 pm
Doc,
You’re somewhere off in left field today. I never advocated trading Josh, and you make it sound like I called for his head. I don’t. I think we should keep him unless we get an offer that blows us away. And by that, I mean either an All-Star in his prime, a young, healthy starting center, or Blake Griffin. And I’d move Marvin for any of those things too. And other than that, I wouldn’t entertain offers for Josh.
That being said, I don’t accept hurt ankles or knees or feet or anything else as an excuse for missed free throws. Lots of players IMPROVE their free shooting when they have lower body injuries. They realize that their limited mobility means that they need to work more on that aspect of their game, and they do. That’s why you see so many guys get become free throw shooters as they get older even as every other aspect of their game declines. And don’t think it’s limited to guards and “shooters.” Yao improved his free throw shooting after he hurt his foot. Immediately. Before his first injury, he was a career 79% free throw shooter. Since his injury, he’s averaged 86%. Same thing with Zydrunas Ilgauskas. When you have a lower body injury, shooting free throws is one of the things you can do in rehab that involves picking up a basketball. Besides, you don’t miss 10 free throws in a row because of a lingering bad ankle injury after you’d averaged 18ppg over the previous month. It was a lack of focus. So no pass for Josh on the missed free throws. None. And I will say the same damned thing about ANY player who can’t hit his free throws at ANY time. It’s the one thing I don’t accept anyone’s excuses about.
Big Ray
June 16th, 2009
10:38 pm
Astro Joe,
Believe me, I’m feelin’ you about Josh needing to lead us on defense, and his ability to change the game on defense. Like I said before, his personal priority changed. He focused more on offense than he did on defense and rebounding. What people fail to mention is who stepped up the most while JJ was “sick and hurt”. It was Flip, on occasion it was Bibby, two or three times it was Marvin. But mostly, it was Josh.
He currently lacks the discipline and focus to remain locked in on defense, and on the boards. It’s frustrating, I know.
Here’s what gets me about what you said though. You said that if he plays better defense, the Hawks run more. Um, are we really going to lay the Hawks running more solely at his feet (no pun intended)? The first five games of the season, he was an absolute monster. But the ENTIRE team was playing frenetic “D”. I agree that Smith needs to lead us on defense, and he has yet to learn how to be a leader (while trying to do it on offense).
I can recall a number of times Smith would block a shot or get a steal. If he gave the ball up to one of the guards, we walked it up. Damn near every time, in fact. Inevitably, this led to Smith foolishly starting (and finishing) the break himself. He was usually ok as long as he didn’t have some savvy guard nearby to pick pocket him from behind. But it did happen all too often. So much for his defense starting a break…
Also, Josh can lead on defense, but the team has to follow. And he can’t just lead by example. He has to bark at his teammates. Funny how a 23-yr old forward shall be set the task of leading his teammates on the defensive end when he has veterans in JJ, Bibby, Flip, and Mo.
Also, if we task him as such, and his teammates do not raise the bar as well, we are doing to him on defense, what we do to JJ on offense.
Do we not screech and wail about JJ leading the offense while others stand around? Do we not bemoan the fact that JJ is being asked to do oh so much? Are we not even NOW hollering that we need to make a trade, or somebody already on the roster needs to step up and help him out? Exactly.
I’ll not cut Smith ANY slack for not doing what he does best. But I’ll not lay so much at his feet, expecting him to carry the defense himself. And I’ll think about how much of a waste his defensive plays are every time we walk the ball up the floor. Man do I miss Childress. Josh ran fewer breaks when he was around, because he was willing (and able) to handle the ball on a break, and make sure it got finished right. More than I can say for JJ, and to a lesser extent, Bibby.
I’d love to see Josh lead this defense and play like a Tazmanian Devil. But just like JJ on offense, if his teammates don’t make as concerted efforts, it will be for naught.
Detroit wasn’t a defensive nightmare because ‘Sheed played top notch “D”. They didn’t keep people under 90 points per game because Prince did it all for them. They were bad to the bone because the entire squad stayed in your chest. So it must be with the Hawks. Even if the Hated One has to get them kickstarted every time.
niremetal
June 16th, 2009
10:47 pm
Ray,
Sekou reported that JJ was playing on a hurt foot during the playoffs, but no one seemed to notice because of the more serious injuries to Al and Marvin. Gearon gave that interview that I linked a couple times to the Atlanta Business Chronicle where he said that Joe’s foot had been hurt for the whole second half of the season, but that it went “undisclosed.” I don’t know why it was undisclosed, but my guess is that it was strategic – ie so that opposing defenses would still respect his ability to get in the lane and score. But hey, I wasn’t in on the coaching staff or training staff meetings, so I don’t know.
JJ was inconsistent throughout the second half of the year. Yeah, he had a good game here and there, but they all seemed to be of the same kind – he was hitting long bombs, not spinning and floating in the lane like he used to.
And I certainly do think Josh’s injury had SOME lingering effects. But people make it sound like absent his injury, he would have improved this year. My point is simply…no, I don’t think he would have. I think what’s holding Josh back from being a 20/10 guy is psychological more than physical. Because there’s no reason he shouldn’t be averaging 10-11 rebounds a game each of the past two years. I mean the dude’s max vertical reach is 1 inch less than D-12’s and equal to what KG’s was at his age.
Well, I am missing out on one obvious limiting factor. I’ll give you a hint. His name rhymes with Goodson. I think a better coach WOULD have gotten Josh to crash the glass more. And I’ve said it many times – with a coach who knew how to use him right, Josh would be a 20/10 (or more likely, 18/12) guy.
niremetal
June 16th, 2009
10:51 pm
PS, in case anyone had forgotten what athletic freaks BOTH Joshes are:
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=&year=2004&sort2=DESC&draft=100&pos=0&sort=11
Just change the 2004 to 2005 and you can see Marvin’s.
niremetal
June 16th, 2009
10:54 pm
Co-sign Ray’s last post re: Astro Joe. Except that I think it’s a bit misleading to say that Josh was the one who stepped up the most when JJ was hurting. In the playoffs, that certainly was true…but at that point, both Marvin and Horford were also hurt, so who else was there besides Bibby, Flip, Mo, and Zaza (well, Thomas Gardner, but that’s another story…)?
niremetal
June 16th, 2009
10:56 pm
The first five games of the season, he was an absolute monster. But the ENTIRE team was playing frenetic “D”.
Damn right. And whose job might it be to get the whole team to play consistently hard every game. Hmmmmm…could it be the same guy who always says we need to play with energy? Heh…
Big Ray
June 16th, 2009
11:00 pm
BigDave,
I agree that Josh has probably the most trade value of the Hawks’ forwards. Al Horford would rival him due to the rookie contract, but he’s not as dynamic, and the kinds of teams that want him are the kind that are either without a decent center of any kind, or more likely the ones who are looking for a rugged, “do the dirty work guy” to put next to the center they have.
Ken Strickland,
What gets me is that while people don’t like Josh’s emotional side, they still want that dynamic, energetic player. Can’t have it both ways, I’m afraid. Alonzo Mourning was very emotional, too. So is Rasheed. And how many people are out here hollering for Rasheed. He of the emotional outburst and the Marvin Williams-like numbers…I’m not saying don’t go get ‘Sheed. I just laugh at the irony. The numbers just don’t lie, even if they only tell part of the story. I’ll agree that Wallace is far more focused than Smith. But I’ll also say that to get what you need out of him, you MUST have a coach whom he respects. Otherwise, you get out of him what he’s giving NOW, which ain’t $hit.
Speaking of which, I recall an excellent coach by the name of Chuck Daly (RIP), who once said, “This is a player’s league. If the players don’t respect you, you will never be successful.”
Rings true.
Mike Woodson says he has to push the right buttons. He’s right. More right than even his staunchest supporters can seem to understand.
Look, I never liked Larry Brown, but the results are undeniable (except in New York, where there was clearly something else going on besides honest work). He got results in Philly, with a very hard to work with Iverson. He got results in Detroit with ‘Sheed, Big Ben, and the others. He has the Bobcats playing well, strapped for talent though they are.
Stan Van Gundy gets on my nerves. I hate his voice. Nobody can deny how well he had the Magic playing. He made some mistakes in the series against the Lakers (Jameer vs. Alston, if you ask me). But his ability to get so much out of a group of guys I never thought would make the Eastern Finals is undeniable.
We can go back and forth about players vs. coach until we are blue in the face. Coaches are responsible for the maximizing what players, and therefore teams, can do. Coaches are responsible for motivating, guiding, and developing. They design the systems. They come up with the “schemes.” And they draw up the plays.
Players are responsible for every single move they make on the floor. They’re responsible for every shot, every dribble, every position they take on every play.
To say that a team wins or loses based on energy alone is foolhardy on a good day. Misguided energy is chaotic and inconsistent, but if the talent of the team is of a high enough level, they will win enough to look good. This describes the Hawks, players and coaches alike.
Neither coaches nor players deserve full credit individually when things go well, or when they don’t. We can’t blame Mike Woodson for everything, anymore than we can blame whatever players we’ve decided to target, for everything.
I am so sick of people saying things like “well, the coach can’t shoot the ball or grab the rebound for the player”, then want to turn right around and give the coach credit when the player scores 20+ and grabs 10+ rebounds.
You can give the coach credit to a point for motivating the player to do so. But you can’t give him full credit, and the player NONE. Nor can you blame the coach for a player who does not hit shots.
And for the last time, whatever Josh was doing wrong on the free throw line, it was mostly mental. If you forget to bend your knees, that’s your brain. If you release at the wrong time, that’s your brain. He got over it, and began shooting free throws better after that, and was even better in the playoffs. Why are we still talking about this, and what the f#ck does it have to do with Mike Woodson?
kwooden1
June 16th, 2009
11:03 pm
I’m not impressed by lame trade rumors that answer themselves! (6M trade kicker, END OF Discussion!) The only thing I can say is the trade kicker kills any thoughts about Bosh or Amare. But I do think that all this off-season commotion over Hedo, Rasheed and Iverson, could make our Mid-Level Exception go a little further.
I read the article about insurance being able to pick-up 80% of Speedy’s contract if he’s traded. Can anyone confirm that? If that’s true moving Speedy’s should be a little easier and it could open up our options in terms of teams. But even with the 80% help from an insurance company, it still looks like most teams have already cleared cap space for 2010/11.
GO HAWKS!!
Big Ray
June 16th, 2009
11:09 pm
Niremetal,
I did hear something about his foot being hurt the whole second half of the season. While I’m glad he’s no Tracy McGrady, that bothers me a great deal. Before I say anything about it at all, I’ll go ahead and acknowledge all the noise we’re going to hear about Woody playing him hurt because he’s job scared or whatever else crap we usually hear. This is the same guy who says he rode the hell out of Joe just so he could make the all-star game. What bologna…
I also recognize that Josh stepped up partially because Marvin and Al were hurt. And it’s not like we were going to get much more out of our $15 million dollar point guard. But if he hadn’t stepped it up, we would have lost more games. Can’t say how many, but Flip was a big help then, too.
“Damn right. And whose job might it be to get the whole team to play consistently hard every game. Hmmmmm…could it be the same guy who always says we need to play with energy? Heh”
Don’t get me started. Too late. For what it’s worth, I think Woody would do better with a veteran-dominated squad that already knew what it was doing. Even then, his ability to adjust would not help. I already know we’ll get flamed to death by the usual sources, but I just don’t care anymore.
It’s not that I want to keep slapping Woody with a “bad coach” label. But the guy SAID he had to push the right buttons. That means no matter WHO is on the roster, unless you have a serious problem child around. I don’t think we have any of those. And once more, good coach or bad, if they guys are listening to you, then you’re doing the franchise no good. See Flip Saunders: exit stage left. ‘Nuff said…
Rufus1
June 16th, 2009
11:19 pm
JOSH is the TERELL OWENS of the Hawks. He is flashy like A Cubic Zirconia. I agree he is the most exciting player on the team, but that is not enough. He has not improved his game in the offseason and he doesn’t work hard every night during the season.
Andre Iguodala and Trevor Ariza were draft the same year(2004) as Josh and they did not have a jump shot either. I would trade Josh for Iguodala in a New York minute and Ariza road the bench for the first 3 years. These players were pure athletes when they came in the league, now they are BALLERS.. Josh does not have the Basketball IQ to help us win a championship.
I WANT TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIPS, NOT A DUNK CONTESTS. I WOULD RATHER BE SAN ANTONIO. WE NEED TO DECIDE IF WE WANT TO BE ON ESPN OR PLAYING BASKETBALL IN JUNE.
David Smith
June 16th, 2009
11:19 pm
Trading Josh Smith would be a huge mistake for this young team to make. Josh may have his faults (taking ill advised three pointers, clashing with Mike Woodson, and being a terrible ball handler) but his defense, heart, athleticism, and potential should never be questioned. I would rather we trade some of our expiring contracts this year to pick up a defensive post player and another shooter to stretch opposing defenses.
niremetal
June 16th, 2009
11:20 pm
Ray,
Guys play hurt all the time. My guess is that this is something akin to Bibby’s thumb injury a year ago – not something that’s going to be a chronic issue, but something that needed a few weeks straight of zero-impact to get better. And in the midst of the playoff run, no way they sit JJ (and no way JJ sits himself) unless they have to.
The reason I’m guessing it’s not chronic is part intuition and part that I seriously doubt Sund, JJ, or even Woody would have risked playing JJ hurt if the injury he had was the kind of thing that would get worse or become chronic without rest, as was apparently the case with T-Mac’s injury.
But while I wouldn’t have held JJ out of games altogether down the stretch, I might have taken the Duncan/Shaq strategy of resting him on the second night of back-to-backs. Or if that was too risky because we didn’t want other teams to be aware of JJ’s injury, I would have at least given him 5 more minutes of freaking rest each game. If nothing else, a little more rest would have meant that his nagging injury would have been a little less nagging come mid-April. And maybe then we could have taken care of Miami in 5 or 6 instead of 7. Or at least stolen 1 from the Cavs.
doc
June 16th, 2009
11:37 pm
nire, you are the one in left field as i never said or implied you thought josh should be traded, i do think you ride the kid unmercilessly, was aiming at that if anything and where you freely give a pass to jj the other guy doesnt get the love. wonder why? almost seems personal.
nire, in the end, i am betting on josh rather than a tired jj. anyway now how can you give a pass on jj and not josh. can you make up an excuse for jj’s poor free throw shooting? anyway the lesson i learned early on free throws, ultimately, they are all about the legs and why so many are missed at the end of games, if you cant bend at the knees or the ankles, mechanics are off, not an excuse just a fact dude. if you go tired legs, ala jj, you stink at the line for the same reason.
Jonathan
June 16th, 2009
11:37 pm
Do not trade Josh Smith, he is the only defensive intimidator on the team.
Sign and trade Mike bibby and M. williams to the clippers for C Kaman.—if healthly.
Draft a quick / turnover producing Pg , after moving up in the draft , using Josh childress, Indiana’s number 13 for Josh Childress, then draft TY Lawson and at #19best Sf available.
Sign free agent big men in Rasheed wallace, and R. nesterovic.
Big Ray
June 16th, 2009
11:47 pm
Clark is a guy with one of the dreaded tags: lots of potential or upside. He’s turnover prone. Here’s a quick tidbit from draftexpress.com:
“Given Clark’s lack of efficiency across the board, the team that picks him will be banking on him utilizing his athleticism to his advantage to create mismatches and develop the type of consistency he’ll need to be productive.”
Okay, that about sums it up for me. We already have one forward that shoots jumpers more than he should (although that idea changes once he develops and refines that jumper), and another who we don’t give the ball to enough and won’t take charge.
Clark only fits here, metaphorically speaking that is, if Billy Knight is the GM. He ain’t. If there’s one thing I think Sund and Woody are likely to agree on, it’s NOT taking Earl Clark. Woody won’t want him, and Sund won’t see the point in adding Solo 2.0….offensive potential or not.
niremetal
June 17th, 2009
12:06 am
Doc,
I don’t give JJ a pass for his free throw shooting in the playoffs. It was awful. And it’s no excuse that he was hurt. JJ shot poorly from the line in the playoffs, and I give him no pass for that. (Although not incidentally, JJ shot 91% from the line against the Celtics a year ago, so I’m at a loss why he lost his ability to find the center of the rim this year)
I give credit to Josh for stepping it up in the playoffs. He has done it both years. But before the playoffs came, Josh’s best month from the line was 70% in April. His career high FT% was 71% in ‘07-’08.
If Josh played all year like he did in the playoffs, I’d never trade him. Not even for Bosh. But he doesn’t. THAT’S my concern.
niremetal
June 17th, 2009
12:10 am
Whoops, eyes gave out on Josh’s FT% highs. The 70% this year was in December, not April. The 72% career high was in ‘05-’06, not ‘07-’08.
niremetal
June 17th, 2009
12:15 am
And also, I call BS at the idea that tired legs are a “fact” reason that people missed free throws. I remember seeing some stat sheet somewhere that showed that Dennis Rodman shot something like 70% from the line in the fourth quarter and 40% in the first three over the course of his career. I’d be shocked if there were a noticeable drop-off in FT% for Kobe or Wade in the fourth quarter. Nuh uh. If you have the focus, you can hit your free throws. Tired or not.
No excuses. None.
bigdave
June 17th, 2009
12:21 am
Big Ray…
true.. but i was just talking about overall value to the Hawks…
amazin
June 17th, 2009
12:28 am
rufus are you actually trying to say Ariza is better than Josh Smith? You complain on here talking about Smith’s numbers going down this year so Marvin and Al are better players than him. Yet why did Ariza not play for 3 years. Sometimes a change of scenery helps a player. Everybody else around the league knows if Smith played for a team that played to his strengths he could be more efficient. Do you remember the Philly game when they were getting blown out and he had made 11 straight baskets? Woody put JJ in and ran 3 straight plays for him and killed the comeback. When someone make 11 shots in a row you keep going to him until he misses. This is why we will never know how good Marvin, Smith or Horford can be in this offensive system. I think Ariza could always play. He has found a coach who plays to his strengths. Just like having a team built for running and you keep running the same predictable half court offense.
Just Wondering...
June 17th, 2009
1:50 am
Sekou, what ever happened to the 2nd round pick CENK AKYOL??
What a waste…
jon
June 17th, 2009
1:59 am
I’d go J-Smoove to Memphis for the #2 pick, Conley & Milicic ($7M expiring contract). Draft Thabet, bring back Childress, resign Mike, Marvin & the Pachman.
niremetal
June 17th, 2009
2:23 am
Ding!
Ed
June 17th, 2009
2:25 am
Woody likes mules and Josh is a thorougbred. He doesn’t want to be pulling a plow but out and running and having some fun. A coach who knew what he was doing would take Smoove out of the fields and take him to the racetrack and let him go. But not stubborn,old school, stuck in his ways Woodrow. So it’s either Woody wants him gone or it’s a salary dump…either one it really blows.
Ed
June 17th, 2009
5:50 am
This from Yahoo! Sports
19. Atlanta Hawks – Jeff Teague, PG, Wake Forest: No matter whether the Hawks re-sign Mike Bibby(notes), 31, they’ll probably be looking to add at point guard. Teague is quick, explosive and consistent – though he averaged only 13.9 points as a sophomore, he scored in double figures in all 30 games for the Demon Deacons. He’d be a comfortable fit in an Atlanta backcourt that features Joe Johnson(notes). The Hawks are said to be looking also at North Carolina forward Tyler Hansbrough, who is moving up on some draft boards
Teague would be a terrific pickup if he falls to #19
Spirit
June 17th, 2009
5:53 am
The Grizzlies were going nowhere when they traded Gasol. They also got a lot more in return than just Kwame Brown.
Clyde
June 17th, 2009
7:13 am
Me personally I think we should do what we gotta do to get Thabet. As much as I like Smooth I’m wit Jon.
yetta
June 17th, 2009
8:28 am
Why is it that we are always talking about Josh Smith? I’ll tell you why; he is the only player on the team worth talking about!!!!!
Go Hawks!!!!! Keep Josh!!!!
darrell starks
June 17th, 2009
8:40 am
Drafting a player with the 19pick will not serve any justice for the hawks it will be a waste of pick because of woody none devolopment of players plus we dont need any more young player im tired of hering the same old slogan we still young and we got some growing up to do coach woody favorite slogan.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
June 17th, 2009
8:44 am
We need no more excuse from coach woody a say trade the pick.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!
darrell starks
June 17th, 2009
9:05 am
What do we want tbone steak or pork chop a say tbone steak lets go get bosh and in 2010 let get leborn and turn the hawks into a dynasty LETS NOT FOR GET LEBRON LOVE THIS CITY.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
Rufus1
June 17th, 2009
9:34 am
Amazin
I am not saying Ariza is better than Josh…I am saying that these people have made serious improvements to there Game over the past 5 years. If ARIZA, Iguodala and Marvin can develop a jump shot, why not Josh.(Marvin is in the same system) These Players came to the league with the same issues
I know we have a BAD coach and a Bad system, But when will we say Josh isn’t developing his skills. If the most important thing he does is DUNK, that is not enough for me.
I WANT A CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!
PS..FIRE WOODY
G-Man
June 17th, 2009
9:55 am
HEY GUYS A NEW BLOG IS UP AND RUNNING.
Astro Joe
June 17th, 2009
9:58 am
Ray, your post last night almost suggested that Smith shouldn’t be much more than a complementary piece on this team behind Joe & Bibby (due to his inexperience). Huh? You repeatedly suggest that the vets need to shoulder this and shoulder that. That’s BS. Smith received a 5 year $58M contract. In other words, he is a vet. He wasn’t penalized for his lack of college experience in his contract, no need to baby him now. And please show me where I suggested that Smith should be playing 1 on 5 defense. Of course everyone should be playing defense, to suggest that I don’t recognize that is pretty insulting. Each and every team has a defensive anchor. Rather it is Dwight Howard, Ron Artest, Jason Kidd, Kenyon Martin or KG, each and every team has a guy who leads that side of the court. Your post last night made it sound like Smith shouldn’t have to bear the burden of being this team’s defensive anchor because of his youth. I’m guessing that 50% of his contract value is tied up in his ability to be the team’s defensive anchor. That skill is worth a bunch. Anyone think Ben Wallace got $12M+/year for his offense? Dampier makes around $12M for what? Tayshaun’s $10M is not because he is an offensive force. Don’t let Josh off the hook for being anything less than this team’s defensive anchor each and every game. No one pays $13M/year for 16 points and 7 boards. But if that 16/7 comes with the ability to anchor a top 7 defense, well then, that is certainly fair value for a defensive force of nature.
And please, don’t suggest anymore that Mo and Flip should be doing anything for this team above Smith (Funny how a 23-yr old forward shall be set the task of leading his teammates on the defensive end when he has veterans in JJ, Bibby, Flip, and Mo). Those guys are journeymen. Again, when Smith accepted a $58M contract, the days of his draft slot or high school education went out the window.
To mimic Ray’s style… funny that Horford’s age didn’t interfere with him stepping up into a leadership position during the Celtics playoff series (and during his rookie season). Did the vets listen to him because of his draft slot? Doubtful. His salary? Certainly not. Because he had won titles in the amateur ranks? Maybe. Or because of the way he handled his business during his first 80 games as a professional? Yeah, I think it was mostly about that. Age ain’t nothing but a number.
Sautee
June 17th, 2009
10:34 am
big dave,
about this: “however, i do look at Al and his skill relative to other bigs who were highly touted coming out of college; Emeka, Bogut, Lamarcus… all showed growth, progression, maturation in their game year to year (1st to 2nd even)… like i said, its as if his offensive game has regressed”
OK, I’ll give you Aldridge, but Okafor and Bogut?
Okafor’s scoring went DOWN in his second year, back up the next, and has gone DOWN since. And I’d guess he’s the third option on offense.
Bogut after 4 years is averaging 11.9 and 8.7 and he’s either the second or third option on offense. (Second while Redd was hurt) Horford’s looking pretty comparable at 10.8 and 9.5
Al is at best the 5th option (and with the minutes Flip played, he’s more like the 6th option) and yet in his second season he RAISED his scoring average with FEWER fga/gm than the year before. He also cut his turnovers and raised his assists, AND his FG %. That’s offensive progression, even if we’d all like more.
I was like you and expected a bigger bump from his offense. But you CANNOT deny that he had fewer chances with the ball than all of the players you compared him to.
Now, we can go round and round as to WHY he’s the 5th or 6th option, but it’s undeniable that he had fewer chances.
Ken Strickland
June 17th, 2009
11:50 am
BIG RAY-can you explain how some of the same people that are complaining about JSmith’s emotional side, and staunchly advocating he be traded, have actually supported the idea of us acquiring RWallace. Can you figure that one out? RWallace is overly emotional, lazy and underachieving. While there’s no shortage of individuals claiming AHorford is a PF playing out of position, they seem to conveniently ignore the same is true about RWallace. In fact, the Pistons have done quite well over the yrs using PF’s a C.
I love JSmith’s emotions and his willingness to challenge the HC when things aren’t going well. Isn’t it odd how some of those who criticize JSmith for being emotional also criticize JJohnson for not being more emotional. SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST LOOKING FOR EXCUSES AND SOMEONE TO BLAME, WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF COMMON SENSE. I’LL CONTINUE HOLDING THE SAASG AND HC MWOODSON RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT AILS THE HAWKS, NOT THE PLAYERS, INCLUDING MBIBBY.
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Tyler
June 17th, 2009
2:43 pm
Najeh, I’ve seen you trash Euros on this blog before and now again with Rubio. You’d rather have even more unproven players like Jennings and Maynor?. What have you seen of them, by the way, that makes you so sure to use that kind of assured tone? I’m guessing you’ve seen Jennings on youtube and Maynor in the tournament a couple times? Maynor is a senior and he’s still not considered a lottery prospect in a weak draft, so what do you expect from him in the NBA? And Jennings barely made a blip in Europe and has an ego more outrageous than his flat top. You’re telling me you’ll take those two “any day” over a guy who started on the Spanish national team against USA and played well? Get out of here. And do you want to back up that “much higher percent of highly touted Euros never make it big in the NBA” statement with some actual facts? Let’s see, Sarunas, Tskitishvili, Darko, Radmanovic, Kristic, Nachbar, Welsch, Cabarkapa, Khryapa, Podkolzine, and Korolev can be labled as highly touted Euro busts. For everyone one of those, there’s like twice times as many in the Dirk, Petrovic, Schrempf, Sabonis, Parker, Diaw, Bargnani, Kukoc, Radja, Smits, Peja, Gasol, Divac, Ilgauskas, Turkoglu, Fernandez, Calderon, Bellinelli, Kirilenko, Biedrins, etc. category. Do I even need to list the American busts? There’s probably more American busts in the 2000 and 2001 drafts than the total number of Euro busts. This is just typical xenophobic BS from Americans. And by the way, that was just European players, not even the many great International players that have added diversity and culture to a diverse and beautiful worldly game. If you don’t appreciate that and would rather stick to boring and false cliches like “they’re soft” or “they’re floppers”, you’re just not a true basketball fan.
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