Superman’s return!
Superman has put the entire league on notice with his performance in these playoffs.
HAWKSVILLE - Next time I’ll listen.
In the wake of the Hawks’ being swept out of the Eastern Conference semifinals against Cleveland, people that watch NBA basketball as much and as hard as I do kept warning me that Dwight Howard and the Orlando Magic would end the reign of the King (LeBron James).
No one was more vocal about it than Tracy Johnson (Joe Johnson’s uncle) of Little Rock, Ark. He warned me several times, and he actually started during the Magic-Celtics series, not to put too much stock in Cleveland’s four-game demolition of the Hawks in the Eastern Conference semifinals.
The “matchups” would carry the Magic, he said. And he was right. The Cavaliers never did find an answer for Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu. I’m not sure they made a sincere attempt to find an answer.
Well, there is no answer, at least not a one-man answer, for Howard, who has stolen James’ thunder as the youngest and most promising NBA talent in these playoffs.
Tracy’s warnings went beyond the playoffs, though, extending to the Hawks’ issues in the Southeast Division – if you haven’t noticed already, there’s a big bad bully on the block now in the division and the Eastern Conference and it’s not the King (who remains the most mercurial talent of his generation).
It’s Howard.
Even worse for the Hawks and everyone else, there is no Mickael Pietrus for Howard. Pietrus effectively harassed James long enough on the defensive end to allow the Magic’s other matchup advantages to swing the series. And when given a choice between defending the Magic’s 3-point shooters or double-teaming Howard … the phrase pick your poison doesn’t do it justice.
Now, the rest of the division, the Eastern Conference and perhaps the league (depending on what happens in the NBA Finals) must figure out how to build a team capable of beating Howard’s Magic.
YOU WON’T FIND A SOLUTION FOR HOWARD IN THE NBA DRAFT. No one stacks up physically, shoulder to outlandishly buff shoulder to the former Southwest Atlanta Christian star.
And the measurements from the NBA’s pre-draft combine in Chicago made that abundantly clear. Our friends at DraftExpress (one stop shopping for all things draft) were kind of enough to compile and share this handy chart for our viewing pleasure. To say this draft is light on big bodies would be an extreme understatement.
By my count, there are only 12 players that measured a legitimate 6-9 or taller. Just 12. That’s not exactly a smorgasboard of options for teams in need. The bigger question is where have all the big boys gone?
That shallow pool of bog bodies makes the prospect of locating a quality big man in this draft extremely difficult for teams picking outside of the lottery (teams like the Hawks).
Chasing a big man in the draft can be a dangerous proposition. Exhibit A, Shelden Williams.
Still, I’m hearing rumblings that North Carolina’s Tyler Hansbrough is one of this draft’s risers right now. The Hawks are in need of help along the frontcourt but I was thinking someone bigger than Hansbrough. Still, if they’re on the board at 19 and have Hansbrough rated higher than any of the point guards available …. it’s happened here before folks (Shelden Williams over Brandon Roy ranks up high in the draft gaffe Hall of Fame). You know it as well as I do. NBA executives always tend to value size over anything else, to their own detriment most times.
My two favorite point guards in this draft, North Carolina’s Ty Lawson and Syracuse’s Jonny Flynn, are nearly identical in every department (a shade over 6-foot, a couple ounces over 195 pounds depending on what they ate for breakfast that day). I’m a lot less interested in their combine numbers than I am in what they do when the big lights come on. And both of these guys get it done come game time.
IN ADDITION TO THE DRAFT CHATTER, FREE AGENT AND TRADE TALK IS HEATING UP around the league. That’s always a good thing for us, since the prospect of something that’s virtually impossible always seems to generate a greater response than anything remotely possible.
The Hawks won’t be the only team scouring the NBA landscape for frontcourt help this summer. Apparently the team that vanquished them in the playoffs is in need of a little updgrde up front as well, per my man Bob Finnan of the News Herald in suburban Cleveland.
One player mentioned in Bob’s story that will no doubt be mentioned in many others as the summer drags on is Hawks reserve center Zaza Pachulia.
Every playoff team in need of a depth along the frontline is going to be interested in a player like Zaza, for obvious reasons (he has the size, experienced and ability needed to play a vital role for a contender plus he’s going to be affordable for most teams because he’ll command a salary around the mid-level exception over the course of the next three or four years – similar to the four-year $16 million deal he just finished up with the Hawks).
The Hawks can ill afford to lose a quality big man like Zaza Pachulia in these trying economic times around the NBA.
Pachulia’s an unrestricted free agent, meaning the Hawks will have to compete to keep him. And I’m not sure he isn’t there most crucial free agent they need to retain because of the dearth of quality and affordable bigs on the market.
I know several of the Hawks’ competitors in the Eastern Conference are interested, I’ve spoken to executives from four teams that have brought his name up in our conversations over the past two weeks.
There are other guys in that realm with higher profiles (guys like Rasheed Wallace, Antonio McDyess, Chris Wilcox, Joe Smith and others) that are a bit of a risk compared to Pachulia because they’re older and perhaps will command a bit more money (in the case of Wallace).
I thought Pachulia was a monster bargain when the Hawks snagged him initially. The expectations were raised after his first season with the team, when he was thrust into a starting role and flourished after Jason Collier’s sudden and tragic death. Pachulia for anything near the same price right now is an equally monstrous bargain.
I know everyone is always interested in upgrading. But sometimes it’s not nearly as easy you might think to get a better bang for your buck. And whatever you think of Pachulia, he’s a good bargain for a player with his credentials.
BACK TO THE DRAFT BUZZ, the one player’s name that keeps coming up in all the conversations I’m having with people is Jrue Holiday. The UCLA point guard, who has yet to cement his draft situation by hiring an agent, is following in the footsteps for former Bruin and Oklahoma City standout Russell Westbrook.
Both players played alongside a pretty good point guard in his own right (Darren Collison) and both played in the ultra-structured system of Bruins coach Ben Howland, so like Westbrook, there’s likely a lot more to Holiday’s game that we haven’t seen yet.
Holiday’s work at the pre-draft camp, coupled with his fantastic size (6-4 and change and a solid 200 pounds) and tremendous ceiling (he’s just 18) has done wonders for his stock with NBA types. If he decides to stay in the draft, he’s all but worked his way out of the Hawks’ range at 19.
Holiday's stock is on the rise after impressive showings in workouts and at the Chicago pre-draft camp.
While the buzz about Holiday intensifies, the buzz about fellow California teenage point guard Brandon Jennings appears headed in the opposite direction. A less then stellar showing in Italy this past season didn’t help the preps-to-Europe trailblazer’s cause, though I can’t imagine what anyone expected of him making that kind of transition (I’ll be curious to see if their are similar, oversized expectations placed on Ricky Rubio if his first year in the NBA is next season).
Jennings reportedly spurned an offer to work out at the Reebok Eurobcamp (their version of the pre-draft camp), sending NBA executives scurrying to find answers as to why he would pass up an opportunity to “compete” in front of the assembled brass. But what more do you need to see from Jennings to make an adequate assessment of his game?
If you need more on the draft crop, though, check out the athleticism test results from the pre-draft camp (courtesy of our friends at nbadraft.net, yet another fabulous site devoted to all things draft).
SPEAKING OF EXPECTATIONS GONE AWRY, I CANNOT BELIEVE FOLKS ARE STILL groaning about the Marvin Williams-is-not-Chris-Paul madness.
I know it hurts for some of us to do this, even after all these years, but it really is time to let go. Just throw darts at your Billy Knight poster for the rest of your life. But let it go.
And for the record, Marvin wasn’t the No. 1 pick in that 2005 draft. That honor belonged to Milwaukee’s Andrew Bogut, who has yet to distinguish himself as anything other than a wanna-be-dominant NBA big man (I’d argue that Toronto’s Andrea Bargnani is looking like a better pick these days).
Marvin’s first four years have been respectable and far from bust material (anyone seen Darko Milicic in a uniform lately? Anyone. Anyone. Bueller?).
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
552 comments Add your comment
G-Man
June 4th, 2009
10:23 am
DOES ANYONE HAVE ESPN INSIDER? IF SO, WHO DOES CHAD FORD HAVE US GETTING AT 19?
Big Ray
June 4th, 2009
11:32 am
No offense to anybody that likes Earl Clark, but I’m just not seeing it. Sure, the guy has plenty of potential. We hear that word so much. But he looks like a cross between Marvin and Solo. He’s caught between the 3 and 4, while lacking the discipline or consistency to commit to either spot. He could turn into a Rashard Lewis type of player, but whatever team he goes to would need to bring him along behind somebody.
That, and he’s weak. We already have Solo. We already have Marvin (a bit shorter, but the same wingspan), who is a proven commodity. I don’t see how Clark helps, now or in the future. But that’s just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Big Ray
June 4th, 2009
11:33 am
Astro Joe,
Co-sign on Hinrich or Jack. The former is a good fit. The latter is as well, and comes cheaper.
And I don’t like going after other teams’ RFAs either.
niremetal
June 4th, 2009
11:38 am
Blair measured at 6′5.25 without shoes and just 6′6.5 with. He has long arms, but his vertical was very underwhelming. Don’t look now, but Shelden had a better vertical than him (both no-step and max) and a better reach.
Mullens look like an athletic freak for someone his size. Of course, athleticism isn’t the knock on Mullens, so that doesn’t allay the big fears about him. Toney Douglas also put up great numbers…but again, his athleticism was never the concern.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 4th, 2009
12:18 pm
Couple of things:
Combines are useless in any sport. Watch game tape and you can tell everything a player can do. Straight up.
Hansbrough can be a good player, but if Blair is available you’d have to be an idiot to take Hansbrough over him.
I know it’s tempting to compare Psycho T to other white players, but honestly he reminds me of Udonis Haslem more than anyone else. I think that’s who nbadraft.net compares him to.
I don’t entirely buy that Marvin-over-CP3 is still relevant. Yeah, it was a terrible pick, but that pick epitomizes Billy’s draft formula, and Billy is gone.
Finally, how about those Braves! Yeah, Wren gave up a lot, but McLouth has impressed me every time I’ve seen him play, and he’s signed for another four years. I don’t mind letting go of Glavine either — that team has clung to its long-gone division titles streak for too long. Hopefully this will begin a new age of winning for them.
Astro Joe
June 4th, 2009
12:30 pm
niremetal, you say Shelden I say Maxiell. But alas, likely a moot point since dude seems to be going in the top 15 (if not a lottery pick).
Saying that a good player can be chosen at #19 is like saying a good player can be chosen at #30. It’s not about can it happen, it’s about the odds of actually making it happen. There will always be examples of guys that slipped through the cracks in every sport. But I wouldn’t bet against the field when the most recent history says Hickson, Douby and Crittenton falls to teams picking #19. Finding a guy who can give us 12-15 minutes/game in his rookie season would be HUGE.
And for the upteenth time, please, if Woody gave every 1st round pick steady playing time over his tenure as head coach (with one exception), can you reasonably conclude that Woody doesn’t like to play 1st round picks? And even in that one exception, Acie’s playing time dried up at the exact time that Bibby arrived AND his boss was trying to fire him. And at the time, Acie was shooting less than 40% from the field. Come on people, a little context please?
Astro Joe
June 4th, 2009
12:33 pm
Najeh, I applaud EVERYTHING that Wren did yesterday. Glavine was essentially a “just in case of emergency” survival kit. We didn’t need it so we got rid of it. I’d much rather have a GM who leans toward “it’s just business” than one who allows feel good stories to factor into decision-making. The Braves are close, not there yet, but they are real close to being back.
Big Ray
June 4th, 2009
12:47 pm
LOL @ Astro Joe.
Maybe Woody only gave his 1st round picks playing time because his boss told him to. Ok, ok, I’ll quit, I’m just stirring up $hit because I’m bored…
Niremetal,
I think Blair will turn out to be more effective than Sheldon. We’ll see. Everything that people like about Mullens is why we won’t get him at 19. He’s a project and has major bust potential, but he’s got potential in the other direction as well.
He would benefit from a team that has time to bring him along. Kind of like Spencer Hawes.
Astro Joe
June 4th, 2009
1:09 pm
Ray, that what bosses do sometimes. Honestly, I think they received the time because they were viable options to help the team win. But that speaks more to the veterans on those teams than it does to the rookies. Mario Chalmers got a slew of time not because Spoelstra was developing him but because they alternative was Chris Quinn. If the #19 pick gets a lot of playing time for our team, that is a really, really, really, really bad sign of our team’s season (or disasterous off-season moves by the GM). We earned the opportunity to draft in the bottom half by winning in the top half. The result of that success is not likely going to be a guy who plays 20 minutes a game in his rookie season.
Reggie
June 4th, 2009
1:33 pm
DOES ANYONE HAVE ESPN INSIDER? IF SO, WHO DOES CHAD FORD HAVE US GETTING AT 19?
Astro Joe
June 4th, 2009
1:46 pm
Reggie, Jeff Teague, is who Ford currently projects the Hawks drafting.
Analysis: The Hawks have blown it repeatedly when they’ve needed a point guard in the draft. They passed on Chris Paul to draft Marvin Williams and passed on Rajon Rondo to draft Shelden Williams.
Then, two years ago, when they finally got around to picking a point guard, they took Acie Law ahead of Rodney Stuckey.
The choice here likely will come down to Teague and Ty Lawson. Lawson has the experience and leadership credentials, but Teague has the sizzle and upside.
That’s Ford’s view. In my view, this team needs far more experience and leadership and not sizzle and upside.
But like I said a few days ago, if Sund does want a PG, he needs to trade up before Philly. I’d try to go after Phoenix’s pick. Or have Phoenix draft for us and then do a post-draft S&T that gives them Childress for that PG chosen at #14 and Jared Dudley.
#21=Top50,1stBallot
June 4th, 2009
2:29 pm
Sekou cuttin loose (a lil). Good read, candor.
http://thestartingfive.net/2009/06/02/interview-with-atlanta-hawks-beat-writer-sekou-smith-of-the-atlanta-journal-constitution/
Josh
June 4th, 2009
2:42 pm
If the hawks draft CP3 they dont finish bad enough to get Al Horford the next season so a Marvin/Horford is pretty close to CP3 anyway. let it go.
JerryWest
June 4th, 2009
2:49 pm
How many championships did Bobby Sura cost us?
Sura+Lue went nuts at the end of a meaningless season that netted us Childress instead of Howard.
Melvin
June 4th, 2009
2:54 pm
Astro,
There are quality guys that are pick outside the draft lottery each year that contributes valuable mins and production to their teams (and some in their rookie season). Micheal Redd, JaVale McGee, Agent 0, Josh Smith, Diaw and Manu comes to mind but I can’t give you more examples right now b/c I’m on my work computer (security blocks). My point is, if a GM does his do diligence then he could find a diamond in the rough. So I’m expect our GM to pick a player at #19 that can contribute to the team success next year and beyond…
Melvin
June 4th, 2009
3:00 pm
Jerry,
Correction, it was Bobby Sura and Jason Terry that played well at the end of season you are referring to. I thought they were going to bring both players back the following season but BK had other plans. Besides, it was the commissioner fault that we didn’t get the hometown hook that season like Cleveland did in the previous draft…
Astro Joe
June 4th, 2009
3:29 pm
Melvin, like I said. I know that there are always guys who can provide a contribution. But the odds don’t favor it at #19. I don’t think that all of those GMs who passed on Arenas, Ginobli, Redd, etc. didn’t do their “due diligence”. It’s simply an imperfect science, no matter how much we want it to be “easy” to identify the perfect player at #19, it rarely, rarely happens. Smith, as an example, was drafted late by a team that went on to win 13 games. I could have gotten playing time on a 13-win squad. I think Arenas started on a crappy Warriors squad (I could be wrong). That’s why I made it a point to say that playing time for a guy drafted at #19 is usually related to the team’s success in that rookie season. If we’re on our way to another 45+ win season, it may be really challenging for #19 to find playing time in his rookie campaign.
cp
June 4th, 2009
3:48 pm
I really don’t see much of Marvin or Solo in Earl Clark. He can create his own shot, something Marvin still needs to work on.. He is a pretty good ball handler and passer. His coach thinks he can end up being another Lamar Odom. If he is there at 19 I just think he is way too talented to pass up. He was projected as a top 10 pick not too long ago. Plus he could come in for either Josh or Marvin instead of having Mo come in trying to play sf . Plus he is a decent shot blocker for the position he plays. Well the more I think about it the more he sounds like a BK type of player so if he is there we will probably pass.
Melvin
June 4th, 2009
4:03 pm
Astro,
Although we won 47 games last season, keep in mind that 4 of our top 8 guys are FA’s and there no gaurantees that they will be resign. On top of that, we may have limited salary cap space (considering that we make qualifying offers to Chills and Marvin). So that place even more emphasis on the draft because not only are we going to need bodies but we may need some of those bodies to contribute immediately. In closing, I will not give Sund or any of the Hawks brass a pass on the draft because it’s not an exact science (by the way, what is?). I expect them to draft guys that are able to compete from day 1. That’s why they make the big bucks. If he can’t field a competitive team (preferably championship level) next season then get him out of here. I will not lower my expectations b/c the job is difficult.
Big Ray
June 4th, 2009
4:13 pm
Astro Joe,
I pretty much agree with everything you said in your 1:09 and 1:46 posts. The possibility exists that we get somebody at #19 who contributes significanlty, right away. But as you say, it’s not likely unless something went wrong. I also agree on the idea of moving up in the draft if we want to get a pg. I’m guessing we do if Sund is not too high on Acie and/or Woody isn’t high on him and Sund agrees to look elsewhere for a young protege to play behind Bibby.
CP,
Earl Clark has some abilities. He’s built like Solo was when he came in the league (6′10″ 225 or so). True, he can create his own shot, but he doesn’t do so consistently. He’s got a lot of upside/potential both offensively and defensively. His issues are consistency and discipline. As you say, definitely a guy who would fit Billy’s mold. Like I said, maybe he turns into a Rashard Lewis type (or something more potent). I don’t know. He’s definitely talented, I’m just thinking about fit.
That’s all well and good if you want to wait possibly another 3-4 years for a guy that might be better than Marvin. I think we need a pg more, but I’m not the one making the decisions. Who knows what Sund will do. I’d like to see him move up in the draft either way.
Melvin
June 4th, 2009
4:16 pm
CP
Agree with you about Clark.
Big Ray,
My response to you in reference to Earl Clark got caught in the Matrix. Like CP said, Clark has alot talent/skills along with the potential that you referred to you. He has the shooting touch of Marvin and the ball handling of Diaw. Hence why I believe the nbadraft.net site use those comparisons.
I think he’s more Billy Owens than Lamar. I think Lamar is alot more crafty when it comes to creating his own shots than Earl but he may develop that in the future. However, I would definitely take him over Tyler Hansborough. I think it’s easier to find a high energy guy that hustles, rebounds and defend then it is to find a guy with alot offensive skills sets that can play multiply positions on the floor.
Big Ray
June 4th, 2009
4:18 pm
Melvin,
Woody said it best: “You don’t want to go in the other direction…”
Melvin
June 4th, 2009
4:28 pm
Big Ray,
Consider the source. Was the Waffle House man pointing in both directions when he said that…(LOL)
Imagine the cartoon character (his name slips my mind at the moment) saying “which way did he go, which way did he go”…
Astro Joe
June 4th, 2009
4:38 pm
Melvin, if we lose those FAs (specifically Bibby, Marvin, Flip, Zaza & Childress), Sund better not plan on replacing any of those guys with #19. He better use the salary cap relief on some proven vets. Again, if #19 is getting 15+ minutes a game next season, we’re a “bubble” team (at best).
If we’re drafting a PG, I WANT MAYNOR. And he won’t be sitting there at #19.
Big Ray
June 4th, 2009
4:46 pm
Melvin,
I’m not arguing Clark’s talent and versatility. I question his fit based on what we want to do. Since I can only guess what we’re looking for in the draft, anything I say is nothing but speculation and perhaps far-reaching conjecture. If the front office wants a pg or a player that helps out in the post (primarily on defense, rebounds), then Clark is not the guy that fits.
At the same time, Sund has said that he leans toward picking the best talent available when picking 19th. It’s the usual juggling act. As guys come off the board, our personal draft board will change.
Here’s how I can see a guy like Clark getting drafted by us:
Let’s say our needs-based targets are a PG and a PF/C. Imagine there are 9 point guards in the draft, but only 5 of them are guys we’d take without hesitation. At the same time, there are only 3 PF/C types that we’d take without hesitation. When our pick comes up, there are two good SGs available, 4 point guards that are ok (but we weren’t targeting especially), two talented swing forwards (one of them is Clark), and one PF/C type that is solid, but has very little upside.
At this point, the GM probably has to decide whether or not what’s left on the board that matches his “needs” is worth the pick. If not, he’s now in “drafting the best available talent” mode. Now he’s looking at who has the most overall talent, along with which he can get the most use from.
Some guys make great trade assets (usually based on what you know another team wants, but can’t get for whatever reason, and they have something YOU want), and therefore you pick them for that purpose. But, you want a guy who can contribute if a trade never materializes. That’s where things get tricky.
What if Wayne Ellington is the best talent left on the board, next to Earl Clark? Who is liable to get more minutes or contribute more? Ellington? Perhaps not, if JJ remains here. Clark? How’s he going to get minutes behind Marvin (if he’s re-signed) and Josh Smith? Either player would have to prove that he’s a talent of at least “sixth man” level. But your best sixth man is usually a veteran…
Melvin
June 4th, 2009
4:49 pm
Astro,
But we won’t know if we are losing any of our FA’s until after the draft. So we better make the most out of the draft as possible. Like you, I wouldn’t mind seeing us move up (especially if we have a player on our target) or acquire more draft picks. I think Detroit/New Orleans/Phoenix and some other teams are trying to dump their picks.
Astro Joe
June 4th, 2009
5:11 pm
Have I mentioned lately how much I like Kirk Hinrich?
Lots has been made about the speed of this year’s point guards, with many teams debating whether Darren Collison, Patrick Mills or Ty Lawson would take the prize in the three-quarter-court sprint. None of them did.
Toney Douglas had the fastest time at 3.03 seconds. Collison and Mills were tied for second at 3.1, Lawson was fourth at 3.12, Beaubois was fifth at 3.15, Evans was sixth at 3.17, Jeff Teague was seventh at 3.18, Eric Maynor was ninth at 3.19 and Jrue Holiday was 10th at 3.21. Surprisingly, Flynn didn’t make the top 10.
How do those numbers rate historically? Douglas had the sixth-best time in combine history. The most successful NBA player to beat him is Nate Robinson at 2.96 seconds. The 3.1 score of Collison and Mills puts them on par with Kirk Hinrich, Jay Williams and Russell Westbrook.
Raise your hand if you thought that Hinrich was as fast coming out of college as Patty Mills?
Ken Strickland
June 4th, 2009
5:17 pm
SAUTEE-you’re assessment of ALaw and his situation compared to Bibby’s was simply priceless and dead on point. It’s amazing how many excuses have come out of the Hawk camp about Acie being injury prone or not being ready. Yet, not one positive word has come out concerning his excellent speed, quickness, penetrating ability, DEF or confidence.
At the beginning of his rookie season, he consistently got extended mins and went up against some of the NBA’s top PG’s and more than held his own, especially on DEF. Not only was that not made an issue by our coaching staff, it wasn’t used as an example of what he can accomplish if he’s mentored, encouraged and consistently given extended mins. As soon as TLue returned, Acie became an after thought and buried at the end of the bench, then the excuses started. The same thing happened at the start of this season when his outstanding training camp went unrewarded and all but ignored by our coaching staff.
However, Bibby’s numerous shortcomings, like his lack of quickness, speed, penetratiing ability and DEF, along with his injuries, goes unmentioned and/or unaddressed by our coaching staff because of his 3pt shooting and experience. If Bibby isn’t resigned, and we draft a PG, I can’t see Woodson allowing the rookie or Acie a realistic chance to effectively run the team because it would lessen his chances of forcing Sund to sign another vet PG, which was basically how the trade for Bibby came about.
I don’t disagree with Sekou’s choice of LRidnour as a PG choice, but KHinrick basically gives you everytning LRidnour does and he’s a better shooter, with range. With Woodson’s emphasis on jumpshooting and having a jumpshooting PG, Heinrick would be a better fit for his limited jumpshooting dependent OFF. I like Wilcox, but both Charlie V and AMcDyess gives you more OFF versatility, since both are very good outside shooters that can post up effectively. Someone mentioned Charlie V’s lack of DEF. Well, he has height, size, can rebound, postup, shoot with range and play multiple positions. That type of versatility makes his lack of DEF much less of an issue than MBibby’s limitations and lack of DEF, especially since he’d be coming off the bench.
AGAIN;
PG-KHeinrick
SS-JJohnson
SF-MWilliams
PF-JSmith
C-AHorford
BENCH
PG—-ALaw
SF/SG-JChildress
SG/PG-RMurray
C/PF–Charlie V & AMcDyess
C—–ZPachulia and/or SJones
SG/SF-MEvans
This roster would give us better size, height, depth, versatility, inside/outside scoring & DEF, as well as OFF/DEF rebounding. And more importantly, the new additions wouldn’t go against the old school mentality of HC MWoodson.
ILL-logical
June 4th, 2009
5:34 pm
I am going to out a limb here and predict that the winner of tonights game will only have to win 3 more games to claim the championship.
Big Ray
June 4th, 2009
5:41 pm
Melvin,
Just ‘cuz Woody says it don’t make it not true. Heh heh heh. How’s that for a double negative? Woody says a lot of obvious things. I think that was just the best one.
Astro Joe,
On the subject of speed, those are some stats I followed, too. A couple things stand out as variables, though. One, it’s like running a 40 yard dash in the NFL combine. A guy disappoints at the combine, then comes back during a Pro Day or other workout event and shaves 3 tenths of a second off his .40 time. So maybe he was having a bad day at the combine.
Another point to consider is how fast a guy PLAYS. When you’re running a drill, do you have the ball in your hands? Are you dodging defenders and looking to score or make a play while you’re hauling booty up the floor?
Some guys will have the edge on a drill. Other guys will PLAY faster. And with that speed must come a level of control. That’s what I think sets guys like Lawson and Flynn apart from some other guys. Lawson is so very good at not turning the ball over. Flynn a little less so, but still at the top of the heap (didn’t check all the stats).
I like Eric Maynor, too, by the way. Kid can play. And, he’s not a bad size at all.
Big Ray
June 4th, 2009
5:44 pm
Didn’t know Hinrich had equal speed to Patty Mills, but I knew he was quick. I remember when Chicago first drafted him, and he was consistently outrunning his slower teammates up and down the court. It was a bit comical, because he had to keep waiting for them to catch up and get ready to receive a pass.
I wouldn’t mind seeing him here at all. I understand the money concerns, and agree that Jarrett Jack is a good alternative that is cheaper.
Big Ray
June 4th, 2009
6:10 pm
Astro Joe,
Now are we talking about adding Hinrich along with Bibby, or in case he’s not retained? Just curious.
Ken Strickland,
Very well stated. I think however, that we are simply at a crossroads with Acie Law. Why he did or didn’t play, why he did or didn’t produce, when he did or didn’t produce is all moot. He’s still an unknown quantity, and Sekou lends credence to that idea by suggesting there is a split in perspective on him in Hawksville. Of course, he could just be talking about US, contentious scurvy knaves that we be (okay, doubt that any of us have the scurvy, but you get my drift).
But something tells me he’s talking about those who have real input and/or are part of the decision-making segment.
Law has just completed his second year. He’s an unknown enough quantity that teams will still see potential in him. He’s not a newbie in the league, but he’s not exactly a sophomore either. Tradeable, but possibly also useable in a Hawks uniform.
One way to proceed is to keep him around another year, draft another pg, and see who comes out on top between the two (or see who the GM and coach like the most). Here again, we run into the same potential problem, and a question that we are not likely to get a full answer to:
Are Sund and Woody on the same page? Is Woody around for the long haul? If he’s NOT (and only Sund and the ASG would know this, if a decision has been made or they’re leaning in a particular direction), then we KNOW they’re not going to agree on much, as it won’t matter anyway. If he IS around for the long haul, then agreement is paramount (and not grudging agreement).
Woody said they had some good meetings. I really don’t know what that means, as it could be about any number of things. I’m trying not to make too much of it.
Loyal Homer
June 4th, 2009
6:11 pm
Hey Sekou. Love reading the blog. Thanks for keeping us up to date with off season dealings.
FYI…myself and two other guys have a website. We’ve been debating Lebron’s actions after Game 6. We’d love for you and all the readers here to check it out and feel free to comment!
http://www.thesportsdebates.com
Looking forward to the game tonight!
darrell starks
June 4th, 2009
6:42 pm
What team is the best?
1ST TEAM STARTER ACIE, JOE, MARVIN, JOSH, HORFORD.
BENCH FLIP, MO, CHILL, CHARLIE V, ZAZA
RESERVE 19PICK TY LAW, SOLO.
2ND TEAM STARTER ACIE, JOE, CHILL, JOSH, BOSH.
BENCH FLIP, MO, HAKIM WARRICK, CHARLIE V, ZAZA
RESERVE WEST, SOLO.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
jhan
June 4th, 2009
7:24 pm
I’ll take #1
niremetal
June 4th, 2009
7:26 pm
We can’t get Hinrich without trading Josh. There’s just no other way to make the numbers work.
Astro Joe
June 4th, 2009
7:32 pm
Ray, Hinrich as a substitute for Bibby.
I’ll be pulling for the Magic but I’m predicting Lakers in 6.
Astro Joe
June 4th, 2009
7:35 pm
nire, I don’t understand. Why couldn’t we (in theory) trade Speedy (around $5M) and Chill (S&T around $5M) for Hinrich?
niremetal
June 4th, 2009
7:36 pm
I lied, there’s three other ways. Heh. But none of them really make much sense: 1) Trade Josh; 2) trade Horford + Speedy; 3) sign-and-trade Bibby; (probably with Mo, assuming Bibby gets a contract starting at less than $8M/yr); or 4) package Speedy, Mo, and Acie.
But we’d never trade Horford for a mere Hinrich, and the Bulls would be insane to take Bibby over Hinrich if they’re planning to bring back Gordon. Even if they’re not, I doubt that deal makes much sense to them.
The last deal is possible, but the only way it helps Chicago is if they’re desperate to unload Hinrich’s salary and/or if Chicago thinks that Acie Law is a steal. But something tells me they can get better than that from another team. And I doubt Speedy or Acie would be miffed at having little-to-no playing time, which would be the likely result of the trade – and Chicago probably doesn’t want malcontents on a roster already brimming with mild head cases.
niremetal
June 4th, 2009
7:37 pm
Astro Joe,
BYC rules. Makes signing and trading either Chill or Marvin to a team that’s over the cap a near-impossibility unless the player we get back has a salary of $15M or more.
niremetal
June 4th, 2009
7:46 pm
Astro Joe,
If you use Hinrich as a sub, you’ll be paying $15-18M a year (depending on how much Bibby gets re-signed for) and probably putting the Hawks into luxury cap land for a pair of merely above-average point guards. Hinrich’s salary is off-putting to say the least. I like Hinrich, but he is NOT worth $27M over 3 years. Especially if Bibby is making ~$6.5-8.5M a year for 2-3 years (which is his likely contract). We’d be crippling ourselves in terms of pursuing free agents for the next 3 years, unless we’re planning to let Marvin, Joe, and Horford ALL walk during the next 3 summers…
Ariose
June 4th, 2009
7:47 pm
You know, We COULD draft TWO point guards. One in the first round and one in the second. If woody can’t get it right after THAT then he defenetly won’t have his contract extended.
2nd round PG’s around the 49th pick: Tyrese Rice(BC), A.J Price(UConn), Lester Hudson(Tennesse-Martin), Eric Devendorf(Syracuse), Rodregae Barbaios SP?(Real Madrid).
It could work. Have you noticed that all of these years the two things that the Houston Rockets are neve short on is Big Men and Point Guards? I mean seriously that’s ALL THEY DRAFT/aquire. Yao, Deke, Juwon Howard at one point,and the rest of those big men over there. The at guard they had Brooks, Alston, and Luther Head. They like to pay for their SG/SF though T-Mac, Artest, Battier.
Sautee
June 4th, 2009
7:49 pm
Ken S,
Thanks, man. I agree on Hinrich and I’d be FINE with Hinrich and Acie at the point.
But would JJ?
Sautee
June 4th, 2009
7:50 pm
LOL at Niremetal. No matter what it’s ALWAYS about trading Josh!
niremetal
June 4th, 2009
7:54 pm
Sautee,
Trust me, I do NOT advocate trading Josh for Hinrich. Far from it. I was just pointing out that that’s the only trade where the salaries would also match up.
Ariose
June 4th, 2009
7:57 pm
“Raise your hand if you thought that Hinrich was as fast coming out of college as Patty Mills?”
Heinrich was a little lighter back then AJ lol. Also those sprints really don’t mean a whole lot. Like sekou said, it’s more important to look at a guys game than his combine results. We ALL KNOW that Mills/Lawson is WAY faster than Hinrich with a basketball in their hands as far as shifting gears and changing pace is concerned. Patty Mills has a lethal first step(CP3 and Kobe can vouch for this) and Lawson is a load to deal with in a full court trasition situation…
Ariose
June 4th, 2009
8:01 pm
Have any of you noticed that Heinrich has been in a 2 year long shooting slump? At least that’s what it seemed like(I only see them on TNT/WGN)……he managed to show up for the playoffs though……just sayin’
Ariose
June 4th, 2009
8:04 pm
J-Smoove 08-09 Highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eFE9j2amzo
Nire, stop picking on Smoove…
Ariose
June 4th, 2009
8:14 pm
Wow! Joe Johnson Responds to all those fans who want him traded!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xziblS77I8k
I think he sent the massage loud and clear, just like always.
Astro Joe
June 4th, 2009
8:26 pm
nire, no, I meant Hinrich as a replacement for Bibby… as in Hinrich becomes our starting PG and Bibby takes Team Dime elsewhere.