Wanted: Role Players!

kirknga,

Back to the “fire Woody” thing. I wrote a loooonnnng post last night that was swallowed by the matrix (which promptly told me that I had already posted the same message, even though it never showed up even once).

So, basically I said this:

Sund’s actions (or lack thereof) HAVE to be predicated on the fact that BK tried 3 times to fire Woody and was rebuffed by the owners. Who in turn, offered BK a ONE YEAR deal.

So, if the ASG’s wisdom was to offer a ONE YEAR deal to BK, how could they argue when he leaves Woody to coach out his contract (a ONE YEAR remainder).

By the way, that was an excellent post, though your frustration was painful to read. And I’m not so sure that Woody is a dead man walking.

What if we went to the ECF next year? Could he fire Woody then?

What if Sund gave Woody marching orders on not wearing out your stars, and coming up with a patterned offense that involves the bigs? And he’s waiting to see if Woody can actually DO that?

Yes, he’s certainly seen Woody’s stubbornness. Haven’t we all!

But would/could he change if his job depended on it? (total conjecture, of course)

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Two role players that can be had: Matt Barnes and Brandon Bass. Like them both a ton for this team.

I love TD (from my neck of the woods) but he’s not a 1st round pick. He’s 6′2, is not terribly fast and is not a true point. Taking him over a guy like Teague, Lawson or even Darren Collison would be a huge mistake. I’d be okay with him in the 2nd but not at #19.

I have a feeling that it’s going to be a big man. Sund loves ‘em.

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Sautee, OK, I found the storyline, thanks. I think I suggested something similar a few weeks ago. Get off the fence with regard to our head coach. Choose a coach, give him a good contract and let’s play ball. If that coach is Woody, fine. If someone else, fine. But it certainly feels like they are hedging against a commitment (likely due to court crap) and I do think that can impact the on-court product.

Bloggers have ripped Woody for the lack of Acie’s development. Sekou reported that BK tried to fire Woody around the time that the Bibby trade was made, mid-February, 2008. Sekou reported in that same article that BK had made two previous attempts to fire Woody. Take a look at Acie’s game log from his rookie season. Dude GOT PLAYING TIME prior to one of his many injuries and before a third attempt to fire Woody and the trade for Bibby. Woody has had a ton of first round picks and they ALL received meaningful playing time during their rookie campaigns. So what was different with Acie? Maybe it was the sense of urgency that comes when your boss is trying to can your butt. (Coupled with the arrival od the best PG Woody has coached). Receiving a paltry two-year extension from a new boss couldn’t have inspired a wealth of job security in Woody.

If Woody is going to get better as a coach he must feel secure enough to try some new approaches that may very well fail. If he doesn’t have that comfort level, no one should expect him to deviate from a formula that has resulted in consecutive playoff appearances. Bloggers have suggested an “offensive coordinator” for the coaching staff. That idea does come with some amount of risk. Should Woody take on that risk as a lame duck coach? I can hear him in Sund’s office at the end of the year, “yeah, we took a step back but I was trying to integrate a new offensive philosophy so losing 8 more games and going from a 4th seed to a 7th seed should be acceptable”. Shortly thereafter, Sund is addressing the media as he announces the search for a new head coach.

I agree with Kirk. One way or another, Sund and the owners need to get a coach with a real contract. Time to get off the pot.

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Wanted: an “All-Star” that doesn’t get…TIRED!!

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Sekou,

Although point guard is consider to be the strongest position in the upcoming draft, I think the next great point guard will come from the 2010 draft and his name is John Hall. Just wait until he hit the big stage next season in the NCAA’s. Watch how many teams will tank after the all-star break next season. The Kings may get the face of their franchise in 2010 draft after missing out on the Blake Griffin sweepstakes in this year draft…

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Wanted: our basketball franchise back, since you have done nothing with it in 41 years.

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Wanted: a soul.

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Sorry guys but based on the previous draft of guys we passed on and guys we drafted its kinda hard for me to trust the coach evaluating talent. He might say a certain guy is too small or too slow or not athletic enough to play and he gets drafted by another team and plays lights out! They only got the Horford pick right by default. If he played another position besides forward they would have passed him up. Typical…..

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Here’s a profile on Toney Douglas. Sounds like a good fit to pair with Joe (long term) but is not likely ready to start in his rookie year (for a team with playoff expectations). Interesting comment in his profile about him being a good match with a ball-handling, tall guard.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Toney-Douglas-1231/

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Role players are fine and good Sekou. But, we need the “Alpha”. I would send any two starters(except Josh) plus a #1 for Granger. That does mean Joe and Marvin for Danny Boy.

The bold strike is needed, get some fire for the Hawks Belly.
Granger is as close to superstar as any other. The price (2* + #1) is not too large.

Javaris for Acie too.

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Strange.

When Sund was slowing around with re-signing Childress, then later trying to replace him, and getting Smith signed……it was all deemed the sage moves of an old, wise hand.

Now he’s doing the same thing (time-wise)with Woody, and it’s a crime. Heh…

Wilcox says he fits well in New York with D’Antoni. That means he doesn’t fit well HERE. No spank-you Mr. Helpy-Helperton. Get Brandon Bass instead.

At #19, Sund takes BJ Mullens if he’s available, and a tall European to be named later, if he isn’t….

Yes to Charlie Villanueva. He’d be invaluable off the bench, and a great plug-in to the starting lineup if Marvin is injured. Check that, he’s more than a sub. He’s an OPTION (sort of like Lamar Odom). If you don’t know what I mean by that, think harder…

Mr. Douglas seems like a good add. A reach at #19, perhaps, or would he last until we pick in the 2nd round? Either way, we need somebody that has “it.” “It” meaning that thing that makes your team’s head coach salivate at the very thought of getting that guy some playing time. No, I don’t expect such a thing with two able-bodied vets in front of him, but you want the guy to make the coach WANT to play him, when the opportunity presents itself…

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Joe – “a bench that features Flip, Childress and Villanueva” sign me up! Maybe add ZaZa or Gortat to the mix & we’re ready to roll.

I think Flip is a must. If we could add Childress or Villanueva that would be great. Both would be fantastic!

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Sekou, I’ll give you 2 or 3 Rubios for one John Wall. Oops, sorry he’s not available until the 2010 draft is he?

If I had the luxury of choosing between Hedo and Charlie V, you take V and I’ll gladly take the one sometimes referred to as the Turkish Michael Jordan. I’ll say again, we need to come away from the summer with at least one of two players from Orlando – Hedo or Gortat; would love to have them both.

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Ray, as I understand, you would know a crime when you see one. I’m glad you agree. Ha!

G State Ben, Acie is gone. You know that look that players give other players who don’t play hurt? You know that look that Speedy received when he played in that Memphis game? That was the look I saw some of the guys give Acie. There are two ways to stop dribble penetration. A cheap PG who lives for playing tenacious defense or an expensive center who shuts down the lane. While I’d love both, one is easier to find (and cheaper) than the other. If Sund could trade down into the 24-28 position, I’d roll the dice with Douglas. Bring back Bibby on a 2-year deal and let Douglas be the apprentice instead of Acie.

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newkid, I feel the same way about the Milqaukee guys, Villanueva or Sessions.

Chad Ford compared Douglas to Eddie House but we know that Douglas is an outstanding defender (I think he was ACC DPOY). But if he is like Eddie House, is that significantly different than Bibby? As long as he has PG-quality ball handling skills, he could work playing alongside Joe for extended minutes. Especially if he is bringing work ethic, leadership and defensive tenacity to the team.

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Ray,

In response to your post on the last blog…I don’t have the energy to go all “lawyer” on you today. But I can’t resist giving you two good paragraphs.

So here goes. Come on, now, $1 million per year is a BIG difference. Every dollar you spend on a player takes you closer to luxury tax land and makes it harder to package and trade that player in later years. You say that Sund only went after Flip and Mo after Childress left. That’s true technically, but Mo signed his contract with the Hawks less than 36 hours after Childress signed with Olympiacos. Do you really think Mo’s negotiations took place in less than 2 days? Of course they not. The timing of the deal with Mo is proof that Sund knew he could get Mo for $2.5M at the time that Childress came back with a final demand for $7.5M+. And even before that “final demand” was in place, I’m sure that Sund knew roughly how much he would have to spend to keep Childress as opposed to signing Mo. And he also has been around the league long enough to know that he could then pick up a solid vet like Flip Murray (or Sam Cassell or Brent Barry, etc) for less than $2M even late in the summer. Come on…you KNOW he didn’t just scramble.

And as far as trades and other teams being interested…well, that doesn’t mean jack if Childress wasn’t interested in the other teams’ offers. Remember, we had no “rights” to trade. All we could do is work out a deal where Chill, the Hawks, and a third team ALL agreed on a deal – and that means that the other team had to be willing to poney up $7.5-8M for Chill, because Chill wasn’t going to agree to the deal otherwise. The problem last year was that NO team in the NBA was willing to shell out $7.5-8M – a good $2M above the midlevel exception – for Childress. So other teams might have been interested, but if they weren’t willing to pay Chill’s asking price, their offers weren’t worth the paper they were written on.

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Ray, a fatalistic ‘why would he come here’ approach is perhaps just one of the afflictions besetting the ASG over the years. If the goal is ‘Larry O’brien’ NOW (why else are we even blogging?), you certainly don’t start with ‘why would he come here’. No, you go out and give him ALL THE REASONS to say ‘YES, I’m going to the ATL and nowhere else’, and you kick the butt of any GMs seeking to beat your offer. But that’s only true if your goal is ‘Larry O’Brien’ NOW and for years to come. I wouldn’t give a single cent for a GM who’s not thinking in similar terms.

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I’m SORT OF a big deal…

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Anyone who advocates taking Douglas at #19 has gotta stop bleeding the garnet and gold. I have yet to see a draft board that has him going higher than the 5th pick of the second round. If you want him, you trade down or trade up. You don’t reach for him at #19. In any case, I’ve seen him play, and I’m not impressed. He’s a triple threat – not very big, not very fast, and not very creative. He tries hard and I like guys who leave it out there like that, but I don’t think we’re looking at the next Gilbert Arenas here. If we want him, I say we just trade our second round pick and “cash considerations” to get him.

And Sekou – Ariza did good picking off the pass in Game 1. But the one in Game 3 was not the result of anything he did. That was just a godawful pass by K-Mart, who threw it over and behind Anthony. My 10 year-old brother would have picked off that pass.

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Nice article.

I was hoping we would have got Wilcox last year when he was wasted to the Knicks. Charlie V would be nice with his offense and can play the 3 or 4.

How about Antonio McDyess? He fits what we’d need and he is a veteran leader.

For the draft, we can get a good player at #19. Last year, Aaron Brooks and Courtney Lee were picked late and I think anyone would love them here in ATL.

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whoever it is that writes this bulls¿t about Pau Gasol coming over when he had developed his game.,.. he was 20 year old!!!!.. Scola was drafted next to last in his year… because he had a long term contract.. so i think he ent 56 and Ginobilli was drafted 57! Get a clue!

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First lets clear cap space and let bibby 15million go trade 19pick let marvin 8million go because he will get that or more so we do a sign a trade on his deal throw in horford 4million and you have to throw in speedy the bankrobber 6million bibby 15million marvin 8million horford 4million speedy the bankrobber 6million thats 33million dollar all together then we can do somthing.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Trade marvin horford and speedy and the 19pick for bosh i gurantee that raptors would take that deel knowing that bosh will be gone after the year 2010.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!

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Woody is going to have to be patient with acie and let him develop like doc was patient with rondo.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!

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The hawks 2009 team
starters ACIE, JOE, CHILL, JOSH, BOSH.
BENCH FLIP, MOE, FREE AGENT HAKIM WARRICK, SOLO, ZAZA.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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nire,

co-sign

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TO line up 1st team ACIE, JOE, CHILL, HORFORD, BOSH.
line up 2nd team ACIE, JOE, CHILL, JOSH, BOSH.
i like 2nd team better.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!

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chuck, nice laundry list there. i like the idea of what it takes philosophically to put the team together rather than naming individuals. way too many names to plug in but we can certainly talk in contextual terms.

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i guess sautee someone else thinks he is a first rounder. the way nire describes douglas it sounds like a young bibby. heh heh

ring me up blood.

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Poor Anthony Johnson. Looks like the refs have it in for him tonight.

Turns his back on Mo and gets tapped with the ball in the back and SOMEHOW that’s a foul. More pro-Cavs B.S.

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Sautee,

At this point last year, Ford had Brook Lopez going #3, DeAndre Jordan going #14, and…well, I’ll just let you read the damned thing:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?columnist=ford_Chad&page=MockDraft-080520

The next time I put 10 cents worth of stock into anything published by an ESPN writer will be the first.

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Even if it means personally sucking his dick?

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I really miss Acie.
I wish he would stay and play 30 minutes a game.

I hope we don’t lose Flip.
I do wish we would part ways with Mo.
I hope we can bring chill back.

I think Randolph Morris would have been a great offensive weapon.
I have to agree that Solo is not effective, but its not his fault.
I hope David Anderson finds his way onto this roster.
And in Woody’s good graces.
I hope Zaza loves Atlanta as much as we love him.

I want Salim Stoudamire to play well next season.
I want Royal Ivey to play well.
I want Acie to play well in a hawks uniform so Woody doesn’t feel too bad.

And for the finale!!!
The only difference between Mike Brown and Mike Woodson is Lebron James and Joe Johnson respectively.

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Nire,

Wasn’t trying to make a point. Personally I see Toney somewhat like Mateen Cleaves. Physically strong guy who was a beast in his last collegiate year, but may be a step slow for the pros.

I DO like his defensive toughness, but I’d worry about him guarding anybody with serious “quicks”. Which, of course, he’ll have to do at this level.

But what do I know? I thought Dahntay Jones was a step slow, too and he’s doing just fine. Glad I’m not a GM.

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Sautee, cosign the 9:09 post….

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Every time LeBron does ANYTHING, Marv Albert sounds like he’s gonna lose his load in his pants. Sickening.

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Jiminy Cricket: so-sign.

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Melvin,

Nowhere have I ever seen the Hawks front office “clearly admit” or even impliedly admit that the Olympiacos signing caught them off-guard. The link you posted says nothing remotely suggesting that. And so what if another team had an S&T deal on the table? Odds are that such a trade probably offered Atlanta little-to-nothing or that they didn’t pay Chill what Olympiacos would

I don’t think you, Ray, or anyone else can contend with a straight face that Rick Sund had no clue what Childress’s agents were asking for. Of course he knew. He thought the Hawks would be better off letting Childress go to Europe for a year or two, saving $7M+, and signing Mo and a vet. And you know what? It looks like he was right. Because we won 47 games this year while spending just $4M on Flip/Mo AND we still the retain the right to match any/all offers for Chill this summer.

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The Olympiakos signing caught us off guard.

So did Joe Johnson getting…tired.

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Zaza made $4 mil last year, and I assume he expects a raise ($5-$6 mil maybe). Gortat made $700k, and he also expects a raise. I think Gortat could be signed from Orlando (for a little less than what Zaza would get, maybe $4-$5 mil). Remember, Orlando still has to pay Tony Battie $5.7 mil.

Question: If we have a choice between Zaza and Gortat from Orlando (I dont think we can afford both), who would you take? Personally, I would take Gortat because he is better defensively, and is not a turnover waiting to happen. Although he is not the offensive rebounder Zaza is. But if we get a shooting big man like Charlie V, Gortat would be my choice.

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If Sund decides that he wants a PG from ths draft, he needs to trade up to grab one of the top 7 PGs (Rubio, Jennings, Curry, Holiday, Flynn, Lawson & Maynor). After that, I think there is a drop-off to the next tier including Teague, Calathes, Collison, Mills and Douglas. And I think that Sund should target the Suns at #14. 76ers will likely target a PG and if the T’Wolves pass up on one with their first pick, they will surely take a look at one with their second 1st round pick. The Hawks need to get in front of both of those teams. Would the rights to Andersen and the 19th pick get us up 5 spots? Suns always have financial issues so dropping back saves them some money and if they don’t want Andersen this year, they can keep him in Europe until they are ready to bring him over.

One more thng on ths Douglas deal, there are several teams choosing AFTER the Hawks that need a PG also. Mavs, Kings (if they don’t one early but they likely will) and Blazers could all take a shot at Douglas. I don’t see a big difference between one PB-needy team choosing Douglas at 19 vs. a different PG-needy team selecting him at 21.

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real as i was hearing chuck and kenny criticizing brown for his handling of the bench, its roles and keeping them primed by playing them for some regular minutes i was thinking the same thing. then i read your remark at 9:12.

melvin, yup flip for three but he was rescued as an after thought from russia wasnt it? mo had to be talked out of going somewhere else as he was rumored to be signed by someone else, houston i think but i guess they had to promise him an extra year to get him. if you remember i saidbefore the fact that the agents of josh and chillls need to be creative and look elsewhere. if i could see it coming why didnt sund and the hawks’ basg. it is even more embarrasisng to give the idea they were caught blind sided. it only points to their arrogance in playing their hand too hard. i would have preferred them saying we gave a good offer and low and behold chills did himself proud by shopping it over seas and stealing money from the russians in greece in eruos. that would have meant they were proactive. overall i still have my concerns about sund and will watch how they handle this year as it is a lot more complicated than last year when they only had to deal with two moving parts and almost fumbled that one. the jury is still out.

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Sekou – thanks for stopping by the squawk.

The only way this team improves its record is by acquiring a Center. Our offense will never change with Woody at the helm. The go-Joe Offense is what it is and it is here to stay. If we can get someone who won’t get pushed around in the middle – then we can improve our interior defense and rebounding. If NO wants to get rid of Tyson Chandler so badly then we should take him off of their hands for one of our forwards and filler. Ditto for Chris Kaman after LAC take Griffin.

Something tells me that we are going to have Flip Murry as our starting point guard next season. I’m okay with that if we put someone over 7 foot in the paint.

Flip
Joe
Marvin
Josh
Chandler

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doc,

“the jury is still out.”

Big co-sign

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Whats the purpose of drafting a point guard when the coach is not going to develop him. He has already killed to good guards Salim and Acie. The bench we have mite work if he played them through the years to see what we have.

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The freakin’ refs WILL get Howard gone. More B.S.

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Mel,

You’re right that we’re screwed if some team is stupid enough to throw $9M/yr at Childress next year. But despite repeated posts here to the contrary, I think he’ll be a restricted free agent next summer as well, assuming we make a qualifying offer. I don’t think there’s a time limit on how long the Hawks get to hold his rights, or at least I’ve never seen a legit news organization that has said as much (and Larry Coon won’t answer my damned emails asking him about that!).

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Nire,

But as I said, if Chills DOESN’T want to come here, then exactly what is that worth?

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Sautee,

In that case, it’s worth nothing. But what would you rather have us do? Re-sign him for a price he isn’t worth? I’m just waiting to hear a suggestion for a feasible alternative about what we could have done with Childress that would have made the team better.

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Aaaaaaaaand good night! Go Magic!

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has anyone seen that smirk on the popcorn man lorens recently?

if i were woody i would have that scene on the wide screen tv in the locker room to start fall practice and have it run for about 20 straight minutes to get my point across then do good player and bad player clips for each player to define what was expected. after that i wouldnt show it until the queen and her court come back again. i guess their lack of class is one of the reasons i soured on them. go magic!

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Ray,

co-sign that

Heh

Heh

Heh

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If I remember correctly, Mo was about to sign with the Warriors then the news about Chills broke. The Hawks offered Mo more years and money than the Warriors so he balked at the Warriors deal and accepted the Hawks deal.

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Why is Orlando trying to inbound the ball against Lebron? Lebron can step over the line a slap the inbounder and the refs wont call foul…

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THAT WAS THE WORST CALL OF THE PLAYOFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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That was the worst pair of calls I have ever seen in my entire life.

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Listen I told the referees I was going to run at the basket and fall down and you are going to blow the whistle and they did and they will always do it cause I am Lebron.

I told them they are going throw a lob and they will not blow a whistle no matter what.

You see how they are not replaying in anymore right?

I am Lebron.

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Stern may get what he wants with a LA/Cavs Finals but what if the ratings are low b/c people don’t want to see a product when the results are rig….

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Could TNT please get rid of Doug Collins on the broadcast. It makes no sense how much he rides Lebron and the Cavs jocks…

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NO THAT WAS THE WORST CALL OF THE PLAYOFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’M GOING TO BED…NO WAY THE REF LET THE MAGIC WIN THIS GAME…THIS GAME IS A DISGRACE TO NBA FANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Superman……

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LOL, Varejao’s sixth foul was actually on LeBron, but they HAD to call something!

And lord knows they wouldn’t call it on the Chosen One.

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Superman….

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niremetal, I could be wrong, but I think I read somewhere that if a player leaves to go overseas, he will be restricted only for 2 years. After that, he in unrestricted. I havent done any research on it, so I could be wrong. Sekou, could you confirm or deny how long the Hawks will have control over Chills as a restricted free agent?

As good as the Hawks were, I think we would have been even better with Mo Evans, Flip and Chills. That way, Mo would be our backup SG, and Chills would be our backup SF.

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O’Brien I think the hawks only hold the rights to Childress for two years anyway cause he was restricted so that was this year and next year.
If you were referring to him. not sure.

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I HAD TO STAY UP TO WATCH LBJ AND HIS BOYS GO DOWN 3-1…WHO WOULD HAVE THUNK IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Heh heh

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I willing to bet you that Howard (and two other Magic starters) is going to foul out Thursday night.

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Enter your comments here

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Sautee, don’t even get me started about long comments being eaten..sheesh!

I’m past frustrated and on to disgusted with this move. Fire the fracking dude already and let’s move on. Yeah 1-year remaining, but 1-year for a 10-game and 1-playoff round improvement? That’s total b.s.

I’m also not sure how Sund could micromanage minutes when he doesn’t know what the team is going o look like! If the mix of players are TBD how can you make demands on how the roster is used?

I guess I don’t blame Woodson for taking a salary in this bad economy, otherwise he’s a total wuss for not quitting.

I get what you’re saying, really I do, but all you’re argument just shifts the blame to ASG! So let me make it clear that even though I generally supported how things went last offseason, I’m not blindly loyal.

The Hawks aren’t going to the ECF as presently constructed. Until they can play inside and out, they aren’t getting past the teams that finished ahead of them.

Funny how a legit big man (though no superstar on the level of Kobe, LeBron, or Wade) can suddenly disrupt the Cav’s world…but I digress.

I just see the job of adding quality players made harder because we have a “coaching situation”. And that situation will be a distraction…a fracking self-inflicted distraction…from the first day of camp until there’s a resolution.

This puts a damper on the offseason. Sund, and ASG, had better get it right as there really is very little margin for error and they’ve already started to test that margin

Ray, I would agree with you that Childress is a non assest at the moment, but he is a payroll drag and that’s the other part of his equation. Can we get Manny T or some other cap expert to confirm we can’t trade his rights? That doesn’t sound correct, though it may be.

Go Hawks!!

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About the Magic-Cavs game… are y’all really serious about the refs? If the Magic stand around on the perimeter all day jacking up 3’s they can’t expect to draw foul calls. It’s not going to happen. I thought the no-call on Varejao at the end of the game was an excellent call… if anything the foul was on Howard for hooking Varejao’s arm. The call LeBron drew right before that could have gone either way. The refs have been the one weak spot of this otherwise spectacular playoffs, but I didn’t see anything specific they did tonight that was so bad.

It’s looking pretty bleak for the Cavs though, and I think more than anyone else, so-called All Star Mo Williams and so-called Coach of the Year Mike Brown are being exposed as the frauds they are. Mo Williams is pretty useless when his shot is not falling, and Mike Brown’s iso-Bron offense and unwillingness to adjust on defense are eerily reminiscent of Woody.

About Villanueva possibly being a Hawk: I think the Hawks would have to seriously overpay him to be able to pry him away from the Bucks since he’s a restricted free agent. As much as his scoring punch off the bench would be nice, I don’t think the Hawks will be able to get him at a reasonable price. Pietrus got almost the entire mid-level from Orlando and Villanueva would probably command the same… would Villanueva be worth the same, knowing that unlike PIetrus he would only contribute on one end of the floor?

One last thing… I was looking at the NBA salaries page on hoopshype, trying to find some free agent big men this offseason… and it turns out Boston, which has $72 million in salary on the books for next year, is looking at both Leon Powe and Glen Davis entering unrestricted free agency. Chances are re-signing Davis is a priority for them, after his playoff performance, but with Powe coming off an injury he may not only be expendable but may also come cheap due to the injury issue. That’s a guy the Hawks could probably pick up on the cheap if they tried.

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If the Hawks are smart, they’ll offer a full mid-level deal to Session or Charlie V, whoever they’d prefer, and then quickly follow that up with a full mid-level offer to the other if the Bucks match on the first. No way the Bucks pay ~$11.5M total to keep both, since that would place them into luxury cap land – and their GM idiotically tipped his hand by saying they aren’t willing to do that.

The Hawks should still have the bi-annual exception in their back pocket after that, which they could use to pick up another rotation player (the exception will be fore $2M or so this year). Do that and then re-sign Marvin, Flip, and Bibby for less than $20M total (probably $8M/5yr Marvin, $7M/3yr Bibby, and $4M/2yr Flip), and you’ve greatly improved the team while only increasing the payroll by $5M.

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I hope rick sund no what he is doing or its going to be a long year for the hawks remember all of the other team who where injuried most of the year will be stronger this year NETS, WIZARDS, BUCKS, BOBCATS, BULLS, SIXERS, PACERS, so lets see will we go forward or take a step back time will tell rick sund.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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doc, Chills might be a payroll drag if the Hawks dont trade him or sign him, because the Hawks will make an offer to him (to guarantee that we still own his restricted rights). If I’m not mistaken, whatver we offer him will count towards the salary cap, even if he stays in Greece.

I agree that the Hawks can get either Sessions or Charlie V (although I dont know if Woody would want Sessions because he is not a good 3 point shooter). If the Hawks lose out on Sessions, they could get Jarret Jack.

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SEKOU SEKOU SEKOU Thanks for answering ? of the Hawksquawkers. Can you give some more info on Smooves trade kicker like how much is it and why it makes it hard to do a trade with Smoove involved? I dont want Smoove traded but with a name like Bosh possibly on the block I get excited.

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After watching the hawks get swept in the Playoffs by Cleveland, it was apparent that they lacked two things, Consistent inside scoring, and a running mate to Help Joe Johnson, my opinion is that Johnson plays to many Minutes during the regular season,in order for them to take there game to another level they must get a legit running mate for Joe Johnson,Smith is good but not great, or if they keep smith and Johnson together they must find players that can do what Smith can’t such as shoot the basketball, as far as the Draft I feel that they must go point guard in the first round, they made the dumb mistake of passing up on Chris Paul three years ago,i think that they don’t need to make the same mistake again being this is a point guard heavy draft with lots of tallent. some suggestions: Ty Lawson, Eric Manor, Tony Douglass, free agent: Jarrett Jack. these i think would be people that can come in and make an impact right away. The second thing they must address is the front line, they need some one that can consistantly score inside and grab rebounds, my suggestion would be to trade Josh smith and Al Horford for Chris Bosh, this will give you two things, give the hawks the Superstar they need to pair with Joe Johnson and give the Hawks the inside scoring/rebounding/defender they need to keep up with the Celtics/Cavs/Magic. I’m tired of mediocraty in the hawks, do you know the Hawks have never drafted an all star EVER. that is a shame i think the Hawks leadership owe it to the fans to stop being cheap and try and bring a championship to the Atlanta area, because its long over do.I atleast want to see them compeat for one title before i die and right now i’m only 26 so. and i’m a die hard hawks fan so I want to see them succeed. Go Hawks!!!!!!

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I like avery Johnson as our Coach to, Woody is good but I dont know if he can get us to the next level, he has good defensive schemes, but his offense sucks, all they do is give it to Joe and watch him we need an Offense minded coach on the bench, weather woody is there or not.

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niremetal,

The Hawks have Chills rights for this next season. In the summer of 2010 he is UNRESTRICTED…thus Ray’s assessment that he holds little value is true. He is the plane that takes off in mid July. If he does not opt out of his Greek contract this season, the Hawks ticket on Chills Hustle Express is worth nothing.

kirknga is correct.

…you cannot trade his rights. The best you can do to move Chills is a sign & trade ONLY IF he opts out of his Greek deal. That opt out would guarantee Chills a tender offer in the 3+ million range (before taxes) versus his Greek deal of 6+ million (after taxes)…you do the bad economy math.

…and if you are Chills, why take one year at above average (more than MLE) wages, then come back as a restricted free agent? He understands the Sund playbook on RFA.

moving on…

If Mario West spends his summer at the Ray Allen Shooting Help School , yup, RASHsi, he might catch something that will greatly extend his NBA career. Look at the impact a jump shot has on getting defensive specialists more playing time (M. Cooper, B. Bowen, S. Battier)

Pietrus is the perfect example of why a match between player skills and coaching style is critical. You think Don Nelson cared if he worked on his D enough to slow down LeBron. These days Nellie sees defense as how fast you can get the ball out of the net and get it moving the other way.

By the way, unless you are saying goodbye to Flip, I don’t think you can use the full MLE on anyone. I am not positive, but 80% sure that his raise has to come out of the MLE. The 20% uncertainty comes from his willingness to take a small raise if we have not used the bi-annual exception that would be about $2 mil.

Until July 2009, Josh is under Base Year Compensation rules. These same rules will apply to Marvin this year if he signs a contract with the Hawks even if that contract is for a sign & trade as designated by another team. Short answer, if you are over the cap that newer contract counts only 1/2 value in the NBA trade magic. So trading Josh before July is like his salary is around $5 mil, not $10 mil. End result is you get back less salary than you send. That’s usually bad news unless you are getting someone on a rookie contract.

And I’ll end this long one with a riddle or two.

Q-How do you make a king disappear?

A-Use Magic

Q-Know the way to the NBA finals?

A-I don’t, but He-do

BWAF

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It was recently stated, in Woodson’s defense, that during the playoffs coaches always tighten their rotations. Well, we’re watching some intense semifinal action between 4 teams fighting for a chance to play fot the big prize, and almost every gm has been a thriller. And guess what, each of these 4 team participating have used a minimum of nine(9) players in their rotation.

Maybe, just maybe it’s time for those old school mentalities to wake up and pay attention to what’s really taking play in todays coaching instead of clinging to the past. The Hawks shortend their rotation, even when faced with injuries and ejections, and we got embarrassed 4 straight times.

We have a young, quick, fast, athletic club that’s being forced to play in the mud, so to speak. Suppose you have a young track star that’s flashed the ability and talent to be a world class sprinter. All he needs is proper training,development, mentoring and patience. To get the best out of him, would you ignore him, or have him practice in mud or on a slow track, or limit his time on the track or blame him for not overcoming all of these obstacles?

Let’s say that one yr he finishes consistently in the top 4. Do you credit the coach and his tactics, or do you credit the athlete for improving inspite of his obstacles. Do you realize how much better he’d be if he had the benefit of working within a system that offers him the same advantages afforded to other top sprinters, instead of spending so much energy having to overcome his obstacles. Do you realize if you removed those obstacles, he might have a better chance of finishing at the top, instead of in the top 4.

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niremental,

I’ll agree with you on Toney Douglas. But here’s the thing-we only have 7 players under contract that we could use to get a better draft pick. We all know that we need a PG and a 5 man. Of those 7 players, who would we consider trading for the #2 or # 3 draft pick so we could get Rubio or Thabeet? Acie Law, R. Morris, Mo Evans, & Speedy are the only ones we would give up in a trade for a draft pick. Memphis and Oklahoma would not take either or any combination of these players for their pick. Ribio @ PG and Thabeet @ 5 are the only players @ those positions that could come in and start in this draft. I don’t think Woody would start either one of them. So if I am right, we need to draft the best player available @ # 19 and then go to work improving the team after July 1.
We need to let Bibby go and go after Devin Harris. Say he costs us 10M per. We are 18m below the cap. Now trade Josh S. and any of the above mentioned players for the best 5 man that we can get. Now we have room to resign Flip, Marvin, Zaza, and Childress.
This could be a pretty good lineup:
PG-Harris, Flip, Acie
SG-JJ, Childress
SF-Marvin, Evans
PF-Horford, Solo
C-New 5, Zaza, Morris
Give me your thoughts.

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Good Blog Sekou! I would like to get Charlie V, he can really score the ball and has good size coming off the bench. He would be a good back up for the SF/PF. Also make a play for Gortat…. 7 footer with nice touch and great athleticsm (physical player). Finally at the PG spot -Jarret Jack-no need in drafting a PG that wont be allowed to play..see AC Law

Expendable/Tradeable players: Bibby,Mo Evans,AC, Thomas Gardner,Solo,

Resign Flip /ZAZA…..Chillz(5Mill per)

With those free agent pickups the line up would look like this.

PG-J.Jack/Flip
SG-JJ/Chillz
SF-Marvin/Charlie V
Pf-Smoove/CharlieV
C-Horford/Gortat/ZAZA

Toney Douglas is a late first -early second round talent, I wouldnt take him at 19#-In the second round with out hesitation…….. If all the good pg’s are gone by then- I would go for Austin Daye- 6′11 athletic and Has good range -some people compare him to a yung Dirk, the only thing that scares me is his weight………

Brandon Bass is really intriguing to me-IMO he is better right now than Horford well maybe a better scorer and post moves LOL….

Rubio’s gonna have to show me -he looked good in the olympics but he was flanked by great players, If he goes #2 he wont have that kind of help and defenses will key in on him, also this is an 82 game season not 12 summer games, I knew rose would be who he is Rubio im not sure about…….
Yall have got to chech out the Stephen a Smith interview on 790…. Brutatly honest but true

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uhh aj how about be able to play both ends of the court us what he can do besides just be ready for starters. he is a liability and a crutch for woody and the organization to not go out and get complete nba caliber basketball players. woody trusts him because he can say to him, do not do anything but defend and rebound. if you touch it get rid of it quickly. still say for all of his good he was more of a lability than solo or acie but easier to control. woody the control freak he is likes the latter.

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We need a point guard, but we let go of Anthony Johnson??

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Melvin, my guess is that Sund think Chill is Damien Wilkins Plus. And he gave Wilkins a $3M/year salary. So going over $5M probably didn;t make sense to Sund. What I don’t think he knew, was the Chill was the glue on the team. He probably was the guy most likely to bridge the gap between the old school and the young school. I think Sund’s mistake (as you said) was in not showing enough respect for what Chill brought to the table…. for treating him like a Mo Evans/Damien Wilkins type. Like you said, it should not have ever gotten to the point where a freakin’ Euro team could have snapped him up. If nothing else, Sund should have worked an S&T. But he has a few more months to fix things (assuming that Chill opts out of his Euro contract).

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Thanks for another great blog Sekou.
I really like the Toney Douglas idea. He is a mature player with great defensive skills. He is the kind of player that could be a solid contributor from the bench early, and not a development project, which is really nice to get at 19. However, if Lawson is available it would be hard to pass him up. I also like the Brandon Bass suggestion for his toughness in the interior. Charlie is intresting, would he be happy to be a bench rotation guy?

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aj on draft night i was sitting there betwen jhan and ando. they can assure you though not truly disappointed with horford more or less thinking it was a given shrugging my shoulders that i did register sheeer disappointment on the selection of acie. would have preferred crit or stuckey and will stick to my uns onthat one. it isnt about acie or mario but getting quality nba player that are available down to the 11th man with two or three in “development”. that is how i slice it. mario is not a true ba player right now and needs to be somewhere developing a shot that works in game situations. he will never get it here and would do well to leave and go somewhere to do it in action. at the same time maybe develop a handle. yes i screamed loudly with his occasional big stop but that is like yelling at the top of your lungs for a big hit by a special teams player in the nfl. get me some players. i guess that is what woody has said as well, if you cant then i am free to go and get a job elsewhere is probably what he thought to himself. heh heh

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I would take Jamario Moon over some of the guys we have on our bench. He would be cheap. Hell give me Moon and Bass. I have no idea what to do with the pick. I’m leaning towards Terrence Williams or Sam Young. Austin Daye is also intriguing. I just don’t think I would take a pg. If we bring Flip back he would easily get the minutes at the 1 while the rookie rides the bench.

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KIRK and DOC,

Very good and refreshing remarks from you both.

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niremetal…good point.

I’ll go hunting through the electronic stacks later this week…maybe he won’t be unrestricted. If he had never played in the league after being drafted, the Hawks would hold his rights, a la David Andersen. Because he has played, that rule is not necessarily the one to apply.

If you want to do the digging, the key is in any changes to the wording of rookie contract first round pick restricted free agency based on rules prior to the 2007 draft. (Note how AC & Al have team options after 3 years instead of 4 like Marvin & the Joshes.) It’s the prior part that makes the research messy.

I’ll temporarily back off of UNRESTRICTED until I get my reference.

BWAF

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“cp, I think if Sund picks a PG at #19, he becomes the apprentice to Bibby for the next year or two. And if that indeed happens, then that tells you what Sund thinks of Acie.”

Then again, I watched Larry Brown insist that MJ and the front office draft DJ Augustin. The result was improved (though not necessarily by leaps and bounds) in Felton’s play. Felton claims he wants to stay in Charlotte. We’ll see how that unfolds. Brown may not have changed his mind…

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Big Ray, but Felton was moved to the 2. Wasn’t he?

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Astro,

I would preferred the Kings next year 1st rounder for Acie. The 24th pick is too low for an exchange of a former lottery selection and Sactown will probably be a lottery team again next season so that will provide us a chance at the John Wall sweepstakes…

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I understand that GMs prefer their chosen players over guys they may have inherited. But is there any chance that if Trey Lewis was looking like the second-coming of Haynesworth repeatedly during practices, that TD wouldn’t suggest to Smith that he may want to find a way to get him on the field during the game? Is there any reason to believe that Sund wouldn’t do the same?

We can question quite a bit about Woody and his coaching skills but can anyone truly question his passion and commitment to winning? While others employ 4 men in the relay race, Woody may only choose 2. But did he choose two because he was indifferent about winning or because he thought those two gave him the best chance to finish first?

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Astro,

It was wishful thinking…

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Sekou,

I can see a teams like Memphis or Detroit (under cap) offering a MLE or better contract to Charlie V. They will simply outbid teams that’s over the cap (like the Hawks). As for Sessions, I think the Bucks will have a good chance to retain him as he may be the cheaper of the two to resign…

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Chad Ford’s latest mock draft shows us drafting Ty Lawson. But it also suggests that Teague will be drafted ahead of Lawson (which sounds strange to me).

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Astro Joe…they are projected to draft Ty Lawson? Hmmm…that would be Tyronne Lue + Acie Law = Ty Lawson right? LOL!

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There’s a Quitter Among Us???

The first thing I want to know is who quit? After witnessing Orlando dismantle the Lebrons, I find it hard to believe that the Hawks couldn’t/wouldn’t win one game at home.

The Hawks held their own vs the Magic, but cant win one game vs the Lebrons? Yet, the Lebrons are one miracle away from being swept? Nah!!! There’s a quitter or two in our midst; and before anything else is done, they have to be identified.

The Magic may be a better overall organization, from the Ownership to Otis Smith to Van Gundy to Martin Gortat, they compliment each other. But this is beyond luck, beyond Dwight Howard – they have the heart of champions. They don’t quit, they don’t back down, they fight to the end, they are focused on winning. All the while, missing their lil’ field general, Jameer Nelson.

But time after time, their money players step up to the challenge: D.Howard, R.Lewis, H.Turkoglu, R.Alston, M. Pietrus.

And ours shy away; that’s the bottom line. Injuries complicate matters somewhat, but there is a pattern, a constant, which is poor playoff performance. And that is a major factor going forward but the euphoria of being a decent team again won’t linger longer. The Hawks have a current playoff record of 7-11, 64%, not good.

Otherwise, under this regime, we cant expect better, unless everyone is 100% healthy.

How do you commit major cap space to a guy(s) that don’t show up in the playoffs?

I say renounce them all. Have your key UFA/RFA bring back their best offers and resign them in August. Flip, Marvin, ZaZa are as good or better than anything else out there, it just depends on their price and the market.

But renouncing allows us to get under the cap and slightly upgrade the roster in the process.

Jamaal Crawford, 6-5, G, 20 ppg. – not afraid to take big shot, uptempo baller, better than Bibby and Flip combined.

Drew Gooden, 6-10, 250, PF/C – 12ppg./ 8reb./ 2009 salary $1.5M – big banger who wont shy away from role of enforcer; yet very skilled in the block – offensively and defensively; former NCAA POY would drastically upgrades front line.

Morris Almond, 6′6, G/F – good young shooter with complete skill set; AAU teammate of Smoove, RandMo, D.Howard. Upgrades AC Law/Mario West/T. Gardner.

These additions, plus drafting either BJ Mullens or Terrence Williams, in the 1st. Taking a flyer on Garrett Siles, 6′11, 305, C, Augusta State in the second.

Wish list:

Jamaal Crawford, 6-5, G – 20ppg combo guard that doesnt shy away from big shots – $5M
Drew Gooden, 6-10, C-F – 13ppg/8reb; big banger w/ low post skills; 2008 salary – $1.4M
Morris Almond, 6-6, G-F – good young local shooter with high hoops I.Q – $2M
Marvin Williams, 6-9, F – too early to give up on #2 pick – $7M
ZaZa Pachulia, 6-11, C-F – best backup C in the NBA – $5M
Flip Murray, 6-2, G – 12ppg/ 2 assists – outplayed Bibby for right to return – $3M

Bibby, Solo, Mario, Gardner, Speedy, Chills, AC Law – are history.

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Astro Joe,

I have to laugh at your comparison of Sund/Woody to Dimitroff/Smith. Not to make fun of you at all, just to say that Dimitroff/Smith are so obviously on the same page at all times. So much so, that it has shown up in print more than once. Were Billy/Woody? How about Sund/Woody? Um, NO. With THESE guys the phrases “tried to fire more than once” and “did not even bring up the topic of an extension” are what make it to print.

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Love the call for Childress, but somehow I don’t see him coming back to the Hawks. I would be really suprised if Sund can pull that off.

The Conference Finals shows what a ballclub needs to be truly elite. A deep team that can go 9-10 without a drop in scoring. It also shows that teams can win without a Kobe/Wade or LeBron like superstar. the Pistons showed it when they had Chauncey. Hawks don’t have that superstar, but they can pattern themselves after Orlando and Denver to have a winning formula.

Have always rooted for the underdogs, and hated the league and cheating refs but love the game. So it’s thrilling to see Orlando give The King and his merry men a can of whoop ass. LeBron is earning his paycheck, but his teammates must step up their play for them to have a chance.

I so pray Orlando wins the series though, which they should have swept 4-0. How devastating will that be for Stern, ESPN and TNT and all LeBron sponsors? AND should Denver win the West also, prepare for worldwide panic in the basketball kingdom.

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Yeah, I doubt Childress is coming back here too. I bet that this is the last season that the Hawks choose to make a tender offer, ESPECIALLY if they don’t extend JJ (in which case, they’ll need the $5.5M in extra cap room next summer to sign a free agent). In that sense, he’s a “lost asset,” although I still fail to see any other feasible way the Hawks could have handled the Childress situation that would have improved the team.

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If MEMPHIS drafts THABEET, I say trade AC LAW and a future pick to get MARC GASOL to help bang on the inside.

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Missed the K!

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Correction/Edit

****Bibby won’t take a serious decline in pay, but getting rid of those worthless contracts gives us some room to resign him while taking his age into account, and nobody…***

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First of all, the Chris Bosh love afare has to stop. He’s a nice player, but his teams have never made it past the first round. He’s a great regular season guy, but he’s too soft to be a different maker in the playoff. Next, JSmoove and/or Horford will not be traded, period. A S & T involving Marvin with a bench player is the only option to receive a big man worth getting. Kaman or Pryszilla are the likely options. Their teams already have a big man and they want to reduce their payrolls. The Hawks must without question get a defensive persence in the lane. ZaZa is a good offense center who can rebound on the offensive end. However, it is unlikely he can be resigned if one of the afore mentioned players comes to the Atlanta. Solo will be resigned as the backup center(cheap). This opens the door for Chills possible return. The big men and forwards rotation will make for an extremely good defensive group.
Next resign Flip (3yr/9-12mil), Joe and Flip are your scoring options with some outside shooting from Evans. Offer Bibby 3yr/15-18mil if he refuses let him go sign Jarrett Jack. Make a decision about Law’s future. This will determine your selection(19th pick) for a Big, scorer, or point guard. These moves keep the Hawks way under the cap and prepared them for next off season signings. The rest of the roster are all developmental players(cheap)anyway.
Finally, GM Sund and Coach Woody futures will be determined based on Sund off season moves and Woody’s choice to coach for a championship or a job.
Go Hawks!

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For the record, Sund has been on record twice saying that he liked Acie. He said that last year when he came here, and he said that to Mark Bradley a couple weeks ago. He agreed that he inherited Acie (did not pick him), but he also said he liked how Acie was playing before the injury.

Tyger, I agree with some of your comments. One correction though. The Hawks playoff record is 7 wins, 11 losses, which is actually 39% (not 64%).

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Role players? The current Hawks team can’t establish their own roles other than rebound ,set picks and pass the ball to Joe. We are getting a little ahead of ourselves with any discussions of trades or FA ’s until it is clearly established what type of team the Hawks are and in that context what is everyone’s role.

Case in point: Martine Borat has impressed me with his play in the Cavaliers series.He will be a free agent July 1 and presently makes about $700 K. Would his skill set improve the Hawks; would his knowaledge of Dwight Howard be helpful and would his cost be prohibitve? Yes,yes and no. but if he signed here would he start? Why would he want to sit on the bench here when he could be a bench player for the World champs?
And if he does start, who sits and what type of offensive and defensive schemes are employed? Will Woodson change his approach with a talented big on the roster who can run the floor and defend the post?

And there is that chemistry thing. Will his talent mesh with the team’s? My point is that there are a number of variables involved in putting all the pieces in place but the priorities and the key players to meet them have to come first, then we can talk about role players.

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Y’all remember Jon Barry saying back then that Orlando will only win one game against Cleveland in the West finals? Ha, ha, ha, ha! Smart insight, Mr. analyst know nothing Jon Barry! How do you feel now?

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Blast: Co-sign.

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I’ve always liked Charlie V. He is a good player. Every part of his game is ok or good. His defense is OK. Offense is good, he can back you down in the lane or he can shoot a three right over your head. He would e an awesome back-up to Josh Smith or maybe even try starting him at the Small-Forward position. THE HAWKS NEED HIM.

The free agents we need to re-sign are obvious. Flip and ZaZa. If we get Charlie V. than there is no need to get another scorer. ZaZa is NEEDED, whenever ZaZa came in the crowd was into it and he was a good player. He is one of the best offensive rebounders in the league.

I think we should do a sign and trade with marvin william and Acie law. for a good center or a point guard. Maybe a Marc Gasol or a Raymond Felton.

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Good thing the Magic didn’t lose by 1 pt last night. Especially since Stern and his boys rescinded the techical foul call. In order words, the Cavs should have never been allow the opportunity to score that 1 pt from the free throwline. Now that I think deeper about the situation, maybe the Magic would have won the game during regulation instead of Lebron shooting two free throws to send the game into overtime….hmmmm

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Kmart looks like it was closed for business tonight…

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Sekou,

“and who gambles and loses in free agency and then has to scramble to make things right late in the summer.”

This is what I do NOT want to see us doing AGAIN. I know that sometimes this is part of the game, but I still don’t like it. Oh well…

But hey. Everything will be fine. After all, we’ve got Woody around still, and nobody knows talent like he does. He’s smarter than two GMs put together. In fact, that’s why he didn’t get an extension. It’s because Gearon is going to promote him to GM, or President of Basketball Operations (a position above Sund).

Don’t look it up. Trust me.

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Gee Ray, tell us what you REALLY think

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But hey. Everything will be fine. After all, we’ve got Woody around still, and nobody knows talent like he does. He’s smarter than two GMs put together. In fact, that’s why he didn’t get an extension. It’s because Gearon is going to promote him to GM, or President of Basketball Operations (a position above Sund).

LOL! Oh my..that was good. I needed that laugh thanks Ray .

Um, but as long time Atlanta sports fan, I know better than to dismiss the idea out of hand.

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ray you’re on fire I see lol

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well pick me up off the floor.

kirk, now i am going to borrow from you, all is well. heh heh

i will not have any expectation nor frustration over this off season because there is so much work to be done and i have no clear cut answer as what to be done nor what will be done to even begin to have some emotional attachment to it. so right now i’ll just sit back knowing i have said my load last year and if heard there would have been less turmoil this year. i will watch and see if the basg has really grown as an organization then set my expectation for the upcoming season much later. for me it will be a pretty relaxed summer because i have set my expectations very low based on what has gone before. just having a team and a seat to watch them will be a luxury. if i end up going more to see the other team then i will assure you one of the luxuries will be gone this time next year. pragmatic, eh?

btw, ditto on your thoughts regarding the history of sports in this town. lived it a long time and no misrepresentation there.

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The Dream matchup of Kobe and Lebron in the Finals is looking more like the nightmare of Dan and Dave 1992 Olympics showdown where only 1 made it to the big show. Take that David Stern….. Lets Go Magic…

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RealSquawk, when did Billups go from draft bust to clutch leader? I’m not sure if it was prior to his 5th year or after, but he was the first guy who came to mind regarding your question. Hard to say if he was a late bloomer or just someone who was in the wrong system(s) but we know that he bounced around a lot before he emerged into the player that won the crown with Detroit.

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Josh for Bosh and assorted pieces! Sign Gortat! Resign Flip! Resign Jones. Do not resign Bibby and Zaza too expensive! Sign and trade Marvin for developing pg! Use #19 for trade or pg or shooting guard. Rotation Bosh, Horford, Johnson, Murray and new pg. Gortat and Jones give length and defensive presence and Bosh can play 3 when Joe needs a rest. Sign Childress for defensive presence or sign and trade him for Charlie V. Good defense but more consistent offense every night with points coming from every spot!

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Prediction is Hawks sit pat and resign Bibby and Marvin and possibly not make playoffs next season. Joe traded to a contender for playoff run and eventually reunited with Dantoni in NY with the Knicks along with Bosh. Lebron switches to New Jersey with young front line and another guard and NJ and NY become the toast of the league for five years of fast paced showtime basketball! Howard moves to NJ or NY or Boston and D.Wade and Chris Paul join one of those franchises for star power! This is our year folks and then David Stern will look the other way while these three franchises throw money at stars. East will be four team media circus with Knicks, Nets, Bulls, and possibly Boston and everyone else scrambling for crumbs! Our franchise will probably move to Tampa or back to St. Louis as fewer people come out to watch Josh Smith miss threes and play indifferent defense and Woodson claim he cannot fix the offense! Management needs to have the guts to ignore the media and go for the ring! Cavaliers are a good team with a very good player but we were exposed in the Miami series and we need another consistent shooter and scorer(Bosh) which we can afford! We need a big man who can score Gortat and we can afford! We need a point that can shoot but dishes first(not Bibby) and play some defense! Need a defensive stopper at 2 or 3(Marvin or Childress). Lets see if there is a vision in Atlanta or are they just filling seats and know the league will not allow them to make run!

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Calipari, cheating? Memphis Tigers, tainted? There’s a shock! And if anyone at Kentucky acts surprised and dismayed about this news, well, they need to go and buy a freakin’ clue. I’ll admit, I was ticked off at Kentucky for the way that ran off Tubby Smith and I wish nothing but 10+ years of heart-ache for that fan base. And it feels like they are about to get that and then some. They better start checking the SAT scores and grades for all of their primo recruits… and the banking accounts for their parents, too.

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Guys I am really enjoying the comments on these blogs lately. So much so, I haven’t had the need to make any comments of my own. I am just enjoying the reads. However, I do have a few thoughts about Mr. Sund

I’M WONDERING; CAN WE CALL HIM A DRAMA QUEEN YET? Not just because of his action as a GM but because of his inaction as well. This year just as last year, it seems Sund is only positioning to acquire the left over talents. With all of these great ideas from bloggers and sport pundits about the Hawks roster needs to get better by additions and/or subtractions, Sund actions and/or inactions might lead us into the out house instead of the penthouse next season. I hope not and I hope I’m wrong As I reflect of his tenure so far, the only move that have paid off was Flip Murray and perhaps he got lucky. Flip emerged as a major contributor for us. Most of the time, his role was playing Robin to Batman-JJ against a measly 1-year 1.5M salary. If that was part of Sund master plan, why didn’t he really pay Flip and tie him up with a multi-year contract deal? I say, Flip came to him by accident and not part of any strategy. The Mo Evans move, in my opinion was the strategy move and was a waste considering his pay of 2.5M per year for 3 years. Let’s face it; Mo is small as a SF and too inconsistent as a scoring option. I will give him a C+ on defense. In hind-sight, Flip should have had the multi-year deal and Mo Evan should have had the one-year deal. The other moves Sund have made with Gardner and Hunter have been questionable D-league type decisions. If you combined their salaries, the 1.5M might have yielded us a better more productive veteran NBA player. If these players aren’t re-signed, then his experiment with them would have failed. We have been begging for a quality big and Sund got us a 4th option (in the rotation) Morris who rarely plays for nearly a 1M per year for the next 2 years. As I recalled, the Morris acquisition was also an accident. Just what big (if any) was he really looking at prior to signing Morris? He also stressed us all out with very long and dramatic (made for film production) negotiations involving the Joshes as he fumble the ball with chill. He made no moves for a quality backup for Josh Smith at times burning him out. He sat and waited while all the quality NBA FA talents got picked up by other teams before the 08/09 season started. He pulled inaction on us again during the trading deadline and decided we didn’t need any additions to the roster while our injured starters struggled in the playoff. Yes, we got the 4th seed. Perhaps that was the result of acquiring Flip Murray by accident (on the cheap) and a healthy Bibby in a weak eastern conference. You be the judge. Way to go Sund; now we must pay Flip Robin-like money to keep him. His agent will make sure of that. If Sund tries to play hard ball with Flip, he will lose as other teams have seen his value off the bench. Hell even Detroit may want him back and pay big money. Let’s not kid ourselves about a bad economy; quality FA role players will be extremely hot this summer. These playoffs have revealed the importance of the role players; perhaps even more so then the superstars. Look at superstars Lebron and Kobe and their struggling role players compared to Orlando distributed offense. So with Sund, will the drama continue?

Now here we are, discussing the upcoming draft, free agency, trades and salaries etc. as they relate to the Hawks upcoming season and our desire for the team to get better. If Sund last year pattern is any indication of our prospects for the upcoming season, than perhaps we should tone down our optimism. However, I will give Sund the benefit of my doubts. Because we have all bared witness to the BK 13 win-misery, any GM changes will probably be considered improvements relatively speaking. So while we are all speculating, discussing and developing these very thoughtful ideas for the Hawks to improve, Sund’s actions and/or inactions will be in the spotlight and will speak much louder than anything he says or doesn’t say during interviews.

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I love the Charlie V. idea. I hope the Hawks truly consider it. I still think a center like Ryan Hollins or Gortat starting, along with Charlie V, Marvin, Flip, Zaza & AC off the bench give us the depth we need to be serious contenders.

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The Truth,

Comeon, are you trying to say our 30 years in the NBA business GM doesn’t have a plan? I’m sure there’s a little birdie (Spirit) chasing after the moving NBA Champion Trophy around in that head of his….

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Astro Joe,

For Billups just looking at his stats it seems to have really happened during his 7th year. That 7th year he was traded to Detroit. And he started about 54 games that 6th year and during that year year he had an increase in stats so it seems around there.

Sautee,

At first I thought you were completely wrong on that Devin Harris, but I checked the stats and yes he absolutely did. Jermain Oneal also really increased his stats as well. And yes it was directed at Josh. I don’t think he can’t improve, but I don’t think he will here (in this system) and if that is the case trade him before anybody else figures it out.

What it really boils down to is this. In each of those example the players were traded. Whether that was used as motivation for the players, a change in system, a change in scenery, a change in management or a combination of all those change appears to be necessary.

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I agree Truth. I want to see results from him as well.

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truth, speaks truth, funny you should say the east was weak, even at that the 6ers with a coaching change and the miami rebuilds on two rooks almost caught us.

yup rather be lucky than good.

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RealSquawk,

I think a lot of teams can see where Josh fits, and where he doesn’t. I don’t think you have to worry about them figuring out that he doesn’t fit so well in a half court system like ours that is heavy on the guard involvement. Not to mention a system that does anything but define individual roles, and modify them as necessary.

Josh certainly has his shortcomings. But there are teams (or perhaps I should add “systems”) where his strengths can be consistently exploited, and his weaknesses scaled back considerably. Between that, his nearly unparalleled athletic ability, and the still lurking potential, he’s got great trade value. The question is, and will always be, what do you get for him that is a better fit for THIS team? And will what you get be around for a while (not one or two years). Will it help you to get better and maintain an even higher level of success?

If it’s out there and can be had (and I think these options DO exist), then I say LET’S GO GET IT!

Then again, if your idea is to keep the “core” of this team intact, then you can stop right there.

The Truth,

Your post at 10:50 was off the chain. Bravo…

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RealSquawk, much like I believe that Francouer would be well-served by leaving his home town, I do think that Smith would benefit from that too. But don’t get me wrong, I’m not anxious to trade him. I cheer for the Hawks not a single player. Smith would be better served by leaving Atlanta (IMO) but the Hawks may not be better served by trading him. That is very different than my feelings about Acie (at this point). I do think that Acie leaving the Hawks would be beneficial to team and player. Player for obvious reasons and team because presumably, it will force them to idenify another “PG of the future” who is hand-picked by the current GM (and hopefully can earn the support of his teammates).

Lastly, most of us who have lived in different places know the benefit of having that life experience. And those of us who moved away from home know how much it forced a certain growth in our personal lives. So your comment that some of those guys reached another level of performance after a trade is not at all surprising.

Ray, I never would dispute the benefits of having GM and coach in lock-step. I just don’t know that in a very narrow discussion of evaluating Acie, that it is a requirement.

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hello everyone what i didn’t hear anyone talk about is how the ASG is
gonna say how much money they lost this year, thus costing us any chance
to sign some of the talent out there that could help us get to the next level, anyone think the ASG is happy with just getting to the second round? To get to the next level it’s gonna cost us( look at the elite
teams payroll) i just don’t see it with this group and this GM( the puppet), Woodson did a great job getting the hawks where we are now i
don’t think he has the ability (coaching ) to coach us to the ELITE
level (ask COY Mike Brown) how hard it is and he has the chosen one
i think the ASG will stand pat and try to cheap us back into the playoffs with what we got, they will say play ACIE we spent alot of money getting him here and he’s riding the pine why should we spent and
lose more money with the economy the way it is, and the fans really didn’t show up until the 2nd round IMO LOL, I just don’t think we will go anywhere until some of the ownership and coaching issues are resolved
IMO, THEY ARE GONNA PULL THE WOOL OVER OUR EYES WATCH AND SEE……
REMOVE THE WOOL FIRST

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Manny, if you’re right (Sund will look to appease Woody), then Sund will likely select players with 1-2 year contracts. Why invest in a lengthy agreement if you’re already thinking about replacing that coach (and introducing a new scheme) the following year? Yet another reason why having a coach with a long-term commitment (regardless of the coach’s name) makes the most sense going into next season.

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Tyger,

I like that Morris Almond suggestion. He’s the type of talent that a good team will be acquire as a 10-12th guy on the bench. I was very impress with him in the summer leagues. He has a smoothe offensive game and was the odd man out in Utah b/c they were loaded with wing players….

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I was just thinking if we don’t sign back Mike Bibby who we could sign as a replacement, I thought about this guy.

Jason Kidd.

He could be a free agent this summer. He can rebound,assit, play defense, and score a little bit. Does anyone else agree?

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I. MUS, when the GM is talking to a coach with a short contract, yeah, I think he absolutely can influence decisons like playing time. And maybe he did do that. Acie had a nice run last season when he got some decent time and then he came up lame.

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Astro Joe,

LOL, When exactly did Acie get some “decent time” last season?

It seemed to me that as soon as he had a good outing, he was not seen for the next several games except in garbage time. But hey, maybe that’s just MY perception, since I thought he was woefully underused.

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Sautee, yeah, I went back and looked at the game log. At most, he played 4-5 consecutive games and then disappeared. For some reason, I thought that he had a little 10-12 game streak in there after the ASG, but alas, I was wrong (again). Maybe one of these evenings, I will take the time to summarize his season by DNP-Coaches Decision vs. Injury vs. some playing time. My guess is that he will have about 50 games of some time, 15 DNP-Coaches Decision and 25 DNP-Hurt/Family Issue.

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im really excited about the hawks because i know that there WILL be an upgrade due to the 3 year 20million dollar salary offered to childress is still out there. i understand that the price was cut down due to the arrival of flip+mo but bibby has a good chance of staying and taking less money. all due respect bibby is a great PG but teams are not willing to pay for a depreciating PG, i think hell take less money to stay than to leave. im very hopefull for the hawks. im for childress coming back his fro does a number on opposing teams offenses at least his fro looked like a stanford fro rather than the gangsta detroit version of ben wallace.LOL

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LouHudaon
nice post at your one of very few people that have come up with something reasonable that doesnt involve trading everyone and everything including up to jerious norwood

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Melvin,
Those guys also really didn’t get to play much either, but you might have been saying that.

Astro Joe, I very much agree with all of that. I wasn’t saying Josh needs to be traded I would much rather have a coaching change and to keep the current roster. now addressing the point guard of the future talk, it is not really useful until woody is gone because I haven’t really seen a young point guard woody will play.
Knight gave him three chances. Royal Ivey and average due exactly what I am asked point guard.
Salim Stoudamire small sized shooter with a competitive side. He definitely adjusted to woody and did what he was told in those later seasons. He still didn’t play.
Acie Law is a combination of the two. He is bigger and a better defender than i thought. He can shoot and penetrate.

This is a big what if, but do you really think we could sing Chris paul’s praises or deron Williams if they were playing for Woody. THEY would have been sitting just like the rest and those are two of the best point guards in the league.

If we simply retained are current pieces (Zaza, Bibby, and Flip and MARVIN) and brought up David Anderson and josh Childress then we would have a pretty competitive team.

Either way everything is going to be harder for us next year we aren’t coming off some big grand stand we are coming off being SWEPT out of the playoffs from a team that was almost SWEPT out of the playoffs

This is that NEXT year where we see what everybody is made of. Does the coach adjust. do the players come ready? Is everything in order before training camp?

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I couldnt never understand woodson philosophy it didnt make much sense to me on why woody never brought in acie to replace bibby at the point and bring in flip at big guard to replace joe and not let him play so many min during the year.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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GLW,
I can see some of what you’re talking about with the Cav’s series, since we probably only had 10 Fast Break points in all four games (maybe 15, but I’m giving it the benefit of the doubt), but since Lebron and squad used that technique against us, and unless we were hoping for a classic Phoenix Suns styled playoff series (one where both teams scored over a hundred each game), our only hope of slowing them down was to have a better half-court design to combat it, which we didn’t. I do like our team when they get out and run, but you can’t rely on one tactic to compete in this league, and the nights when we couldn’t get out and run (playoff and regular season games) helped prove that Sund’s thinking on the 50-50 mix is the right way to go. In a retreat from the player side of the game, I’ve heard plenty of folks talk about bringing in an offensive coordinator to help draw some new plays into the fold and get things out of the stagnant “Run it through Joe” schemes we have now. The only thing I wish, and it’s something the league needs to consider to help the game grow around the world as much as at home, is inter-league play in the offseason, not just for championship teams but especially for some of the lower rung teams who need some extra chemistry (and the Hawks could use it just as well as Boston did during their pre-championship summer). Give me a legit 10 deep team next year with some new offensive schemes, and we’ll have a far more manageable time in the first round, and hopefully not get pwned in the second….

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I still marvel at the people who bash Sund for the way he handled Chill/Mo/Flip. All right – what would you have done differently? Sign Chill to a contract that no other NBA team was willing to pay? Sign Flip to a contract he’d never accept (read: No way Flip would have signed a 3-year deal at just $1.5-2M)? And are you seriously saying that Mo isn’t worth 2 years at $2.5M (barely 40% of the mid-level)?

This team improved by 10 games with the payroll remaining essentially the same. What results were you expecting? An NBA title, just 1 year after we won 37 games? Will you not give the man credit unless he trades Acie Law for Chris Paul (”Judas for Jesus,” with a hat tip to MannyT) and signs LeBron James for the minimum salary? I’m only being half-facetious. What standard of success are you holding Sund to if “10-win improvement while keeping payroll constant” does not satisfy you?

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We really dont know (for sure) how the negotiations between Sund and Chills started, plus Sund was the new Man on the block, so I will give him a pass last offseason. This time, he had one whole year to evaluate (coach and players), so he needs to make his imprint on the team.

Sautee, I think those numbers from Acie are pretty good based. In 35 mpg, Bibby only averaged 5 assists, 3.5 rebounds (compared to 3 assists and 2.5 rebounds). I know that Acie played against mostly bench players, but still. 2 years in, and we still dont know exactly what kind of player he will be. Keep in mind that he won the Bob Cousy award (best PG in college) his senior year, so all these PG’s people have the Hawks drafting (at 19), who knows how they’re going to turn out, especially playing for Woody.

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O’Brien,

I think if Acie had hit a higher percentage of his jumpers when he was on the court, Woody would have trusted him a little more. So some of it definitely is on Acie.

His situation was exacerbated by the fact that Flip could give Woody minutes at the 1. Unfortunately for the TEAM, when Flip played the 1, he turned the ball over too much, and it robbed him of his natural aggressiveness on offense.

It was not until the Miami playoff series that Flip found the right balance while playing the 1. And by then he HAD to, because Acie was out with his back.

I still feel confident that if Woody had suffered through Acie’s shooting woes, we’d now have a “better than most” backup point who will only get better as he goes. Personally I hope we keep him, but if not, we MUST address the future at PG this summer.

Status quo on that issue has the potential to doom the team in 2011 and beyond.

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Nire,

about this also: “And in any case, the Hawks DID make him an offer, which Childress rejected as too low. ”

Relative to the Greek offer, yes. But had we offered something around the MLE before the season ended, who knows? At THAT point, he wouldn’t have had anything to compare that offer to. Maybe his agent would have told him he was crazy, BUT, this was the only organization he’s ever known. You never know, but I’d rather see us be proactive in every situation, rather than p!ss away an asset.

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yeah so I am going to go out on a limb and say that the refs are being a little preferential. And hmmm. maybe Z should get a technical. maybe

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Sautee,

1) We were not allowed to offer him anything between October 31, 2007 and July 1, 2008.

2) I would have tried to sign-and-trade him if the deal would have brought anything significant. But anyone who said that the Suns offered Barbosa or anyone comparable is lying out of their a$$. If the deal would have forced us to take on a bad contract in return or player(s) we couldn’t use, I wouldn’t have done it. Same if the trade brought us a player like Raja Bell, who might crack the rotation, but why take on his $5M/2yr contract when we could get Flip for $1.5M and be just as well off? Making a trade under those circumstances would just be worse than letting him go for nothing.

The press reports said that there were a few sign-and-trade offers involving Chill that were discussed. But keep in mind that WE aren’t the only ones who make the decision on a sign-and-trade. Childress has to agree to the deal too. My guess is that no team made an offer that both 1) paid Childress enough to make it worth it for him to stay; and 2) gave us something of positive value. Beyond that, I admit that I have no proof, except for the fact that Sund got us what we needed to be successful for this year, so I assume he didn’t turn off his phone when he got feasible trade offers.

Under the circumstances, I would have done exactly what I suspect Sund did – offered Chill as much as he was worth to us. If that wasn’t good enough for him and he couldn’t get better from another NBA team, I would have let him walk.

It’s not a “wasted asset” if there was no way the asset could have positive value for us. Signing Childress to a $7M or more contract would have put us over the luxury cap threshold AND strapped us to the deck on the free agent market for the next 4-5 years. Under those circumstances, there was no feasible alternative that would have made the team better off.

So I’m still waiting. Someone tell me a feasible alternative. If you can’t, then just say that the NBA free agency and salary cap rules are stupid. Don’t bash Sund for not making trades that couldn’t have happened or not signing contracts that no NBA team would have signed.

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niremetal, at the time, I dont think Sund knew that Flip would be available, so I think he got lucky in that regards. Sure, he probably had his eye on Mo Evans, but I think Mo was about to sign with Golden State. To get him to come to the Hawks, Sund offered him 2 years (with a player option for the 3rd year) at $2.5 mil. Do we really want Mo Evans for 3 years? How many impact plays has Mo Evans made (offensively or defensively)?

We still dont know if Chills really wanted to come back and play for Woody (because Chills said he had no chance at starting). And we dont know what those offers for Chills were. All we know is that Sund told Chills to go out and get a better offer, and he did.

I would have loved to have all 3; Chills, Mo Evans, and Flip. Either way, Sund has to make some early moves this time around (be proactive) and not be reactive like he was last year.

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Nire,

BTW my last post was written BEFORE I read your 9:04. Watching the game and got distracted. But it was NOT intended as an answer to your 9:04, but a further response to your earlier posts.

And I found this and want your reaction:

TrueHoop: “The NBA’s collective bargaining agreement includes a ton of complicated clauses. Each serves a purpose, and you can make a case that, all told, it’s a good and fairly fair system. But regulation is always burdensome, and this league, famously run by lawyers, is knee-deep in legalese. In this instance, those rules created a really weird deal. According to Josh Childress, there were championship-contending NBA teams that were willing to pay him more than the Hawks would. A sign-and-trade couldn’t be worked out, so Childress was stuck. But that makes a situation where here’s an employee, a place that wanted to employ him, and an agreed upon price. In normal human life, that’s all you need to make a deal. You can only tinker with the free market so much before it starts depressing normal economic activity. This is one of those cases. A rule (essentially, the salary cap) designed solely to keep NBA teams competitive with each other now ends up helping a whole different league.”

At the same site was this: Lang Whitaker, SLAM Online: “… I don’t think it needed to come to this. The Hawks didn’t have to pay him as much as he’s making in Greece, but they had to pay him something, anything. It just wasn’t happening, according to Josh. ‘I had conversations with Rick and ownership and that was my number one goal to return to Atlanta,’ Josh said. ‘But I wanted to get my contract done early, but when that didn’t happen, I was kind of forced to explore my options.’”

So, Nire does this sound like he felt respected?

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Childress’s quote doesn’t sound like a man disrespected. He sounds like a man who couldn’t get paid what he thought he was worth. But that’s life. The Hawks thought they could make better uses of $7-8M/yr than spending it all on Josh Childress. The fact that other teams were willing to offer “more” doesn’t mean jack if those other teams didn’t have the cap space to sign him and only offered the Hawks useless players or bad contracts in a sign-and-trade.

Lang Whitaker, Sekou’s plaudits notwithstanding, talks out of his a$$ as much as the folks on ESPN do. His articles are 60% fact, 40% opinion. The portion where he says that “The Hawks didn’t have to pay him as much as he’s making in Greece, but they had to pay him something, anything.” is clearly opinion, because the Hawks DID offer Childress something. It just wasn’t nearly as much as the Greeks offered. Whitaker and most of the people who follow the NBA are too set in their views of the basketball world to fathom how a solid NBA player could choose to play in Europe unless he was disrespected by NBA teams.

But just because Whitaker says it doesn’t make it true, particularly with a player as smart and worldly as Childress. Childress was a unique case – a well-rounded player who did everything well but nothing great. No NBA team in a position to sign him or trade useful assets for him was willing to pay him more than ~$6.5M. The Greek team offered him the equivalent of a $9M+ American contract. Take that monetary gap and add on the fact that Childress is a smart, wordly guy who loves the idea of globetrotting, and it makes perfect sense that he’d choose to jump overseas for a couple years.

I’ll let you in on a little secret. If a Greek, Italian, or Spanish law firm offered me a 30% pay raise and the opportunity to travel Europe and bask in the Mediterranean sun for 3 years, it wouldn’t take my current employer “disrespecting” me to take the deal. I’m sure most unmarried young guys would feel the same way.

I’m enjoying this, btw. Keep it coming .

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nire, these back and forth debates are terrific, aren’t they? I’ve been known to enter into a few now and then myself. Ya’ll keep it up, I’m enjoying reading the good stuff.

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How about a round of I Believe in Magic! Cleveland just cannot put Orlando down. This is the difference between playing the Hawks and the Magic. Most of our playoff games were decided in the 1st quarter. Orlando never seems to be out of the game early.

niremetal & Sautee – you two are cracking me up. It’s like watching a rerun of late July 2008.

I’d give you this parallel for the Chills/Sund situation.

1-If you get to the bar early, you get a larger selection of ladies to chat with if you choose to do so. If you chat up a nice lady early who isn’t the top tier woman in the place, she may appreciate you more.

2-If you get to her after being blown off by others first, you are in trouble if she noticed your prior failures.

3-If you don’t talk to anyone, maybe the ladies think you have alternate interests or personal preferences. They definitely won’t think more of you if your conversation doesn’t start until she is about to leave with another guy.

If Sund wanted Chills to feel wanted, he should not have given him that #3 treatment. If Sund gives any of his free agents the #1 treatment, he might get a hometown discount or a quick commitment if the player doesn’t want to play the waiting game. Sometimes, an active courtship from the guy/team with less money, but more interest works.

niremetal, notice that neither Sautee nor I said blow your bar budget/cap space in situation #1…and you also have to factor in that the other ladies in the bar (i.e. future free agents on this team) were watching the style of negotiation.

Time will tell if he can improve that rep this summer.

Maybe he is the guy with the Dos Equis…i.e. the most interesting man in the world

BWAF, my friends!

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Manny,

How does a 5-year, $6.6M/yr offer square with #3??

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Was stan van gundy available when Billy was trying to fire Woody.
How nice would the Hawks be if he was at the helm you talk about coming out of half time fired up and adjustments made.

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Manny,

Source that. I don’t recall ever seeing an article saying that the Hawks’ offer came after the Greek offer.

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Manny,

LOL, good stuff. “Stay Thirsty My Friend”.

Nire,

As I said, I’ll always wonder what might have been had we offered $5.5M on July 1. Who knows, maybe we’re better off the way it is. But I sure miss Chills’ energy.

Here’s yet another post from the site I found. I suspect there are holes in this argument and I’ll trust you and Manny to find them and let us know:

Ziller, FanHouse: “Childress carries a cap hold of $14.5 million. Assuming the Hawks can manage to retain Josh Smith for about $10 million a year, Atlanta figures to be about $20 million under the salary cap next summer. (Mike Bibby and Zaza Pachulia are coming off the books.) That can buy a mighty fine free agent. But unless Atlanta renounces its rights to Childress — meaning Chills would no longer be a restricted free agent, he could sign with any NBA team and the Hawks wouldn’t have matching rights — $14.5 million of that cap space will be locked up in that cap hold. That means Atlanta would have only roughly $5.5 million of space, and that’s less than the mid-level exception. The Hawks would then have no cap space, and would be in the same boat as 85% of the NBA. If the Hawks had overpaid Childress with, say, an $8 million annual contract, they would be able to go get a $12 million player in free agency next year … and they’d have Childress’s production! Instead, nothing and nothing.”

This seems unlikely to me, but how ’bout ’splainin’ why.

And yes, Manny it’s like the good old days of Summer ‘08, but without the acrimony.

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Sautee,

You are also assuming that we didn’t offer $5.5M on July 1. We know that the Hawks made an offer that started above the MLE, which was $5.7M last year. So you can strike that off the list. Again, don’t talk from speculation. Find a source when you make assertions that assume that we never offered Josh anything during the opening days of free agency.

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Sourced!

I don’t make all of it up;-) I was deep into the Chills watch last summer.

From NY Times link that Melvin provided

He had planned on re-signing with the Hawks, who had said signing him and Josh Smith were off-season priorities. But Childress expected a contract within days of the start of free agency this July, and negotiations dragged on for weeks.

Check out the section titled BLACK EYE FOR THE HAWKS
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/122618

BWAF

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PS, I was wrongish about the cap hold – it’s about $9M, not $5.7M. It’s not a big deal at all as long as we’re over the cap anyway. And we can renounce Childress as soon as we’re far enough under the cap where it makes a difference. There’s just no need to do that this summer, since we don’t have any cap space anyway.

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Nire,

Here’s Sund qoute to go with my 10:49 post

“Atlanta general manager Rick Sund said that while he believes the Hawks made a proposal that was competitive within the NBA, it would have been fiscally irresponsible to try to match Olympiacos. Sund wouldn’t reveal the exact numbers of Atlanta’s offer. But he said it exceeded the salary cap’s midlevel exception, which is more than $5.5 million, and would have made Childress the team’s fourth highest paid player.”

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Nire,

I made no assertions that assumed such.

“Second, Sund might have honestly had every intention of re-signing Chill, but once it became clear that that would cost $8M instead of $6M (thanks to the Greek offer to overpay him and pay his taxes), he might have thought better of it. I sure as hell would have.”

Isn’t THAT talking from speculation? I’ve been enjoying this, but let’s not get into lecturing, ok?

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Looking at the cap space as another version of asset management, half the team is currently free agents. Under normal circumstances that would put you under the cap. Then you get to decide–resign our players or make a big play like Philly and the Clippers (and sort of Memphis) did last summer.

However, holding 9-11 mil of cap space for a guy that you definitely would not sign for anywhere close to that amount makes it very difficult to upgrade your roster even though we currently have less than $41 mil committed to salaries for next season.

Chills is a heavier load in Greece than he ever was in Atlanta.

Sautee, this one’s for you. Next time we meet up, it’s the double X.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bc0WjTT0Ps

BWAF my friends.

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Sautee,

I wasn’t lecturing, and I wasn’t guilty of unclean hands. The portion you posted was a direct response to how Sund’s actions might have “gibed” with his statements. I prefaced my responses by saying “Sund might have,” which is an explicit indication that I’m speculating. I have no problem with speculation per se; only with speculation masked as facts.

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OK, Nire, and I said I’ll always WONDER……doesn’t exactly sound like I was trying to be factual now does it?

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Manny,

Read on:
They didn’t raise their offer to Childress after Olympiakos emerged as a real player.

In other words, they had already made an offer – otherwise, there would have been nothing to “raise.” When Olympiacos came in and offered the equivalent of a $9M/yr contract, the Hawks went no further. That’s basically what I said I thought happened – Sund DID make an initial offer. He just decided to look elsewhere once Olympiacos offered way, way more than we were willing to pay.

Sautee,

Fair ’nuff. My bad!

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Matt,

no prob, we’re cool.

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Rafer Alston shot the Magic right out of the game in the 4th…

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And I spent WAY too much time on this tonight. Ha!

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I don’t believe for a second that Chill would have stayed here for $6.5M or even $7M in the face of the Greek offer that paid him $3M-$4M more in take-home cash. If you really think he would, ok, and we can agree to disagree.

But the bottom line for me is this: There was no way we could keep Childress here at a price that made any financial sense. Given that, our best option was to let him go to Europe…at least last summer. This summer is trickier, since we surely will not tender him another qualifying offer next summer unless we extend both JJ and Marvin. Under those circumstances, this might be the last chance to get something for him.

But again, no one should fall into the trap of thinking that if we don’t re-sign Childress or trade him, that means the front office blew it. That’s the whole point of my whole dissertation on this. My guess is that no NBA team will make Childress an offer that we won’t be willing to match. I’m also assuming that Sund would not be so stupid as to ignore a sign-and-trade offer that would give us SOMEthing of net value. Assuming I’m right about those two things, then we might be right back where we were last summer. And if that’s the case, and if our only options are:

1) Overpay to get him (and I would consider anything much over $7M/yr overpaying)
2) Sign-and-trade him in a deal where we have to take back bad, non-expiring contracts; or
3) Let him go back to Europe…

Then I take option 3. Every time.

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If by renouncing the rights to Childress we free up enough cap space to get the players we need for this team then I don’t see any problem with that. Whats the difference between doing that or a S&T this offseason. Net is we get the player we need.

I don’t get caught up in the players “feelings” or did we show him enough respect. It’s the players job to milk as much money as possible from the team. The teams job is to sign the player for as little as possible. That scenario is set-up to create animosity.

Childress is not worth more than the MLE. Especially for the next few years as this economy suffers. There will be many players of equal or greater skill looking for work. Why pay more than needed?

How long will Childress be happy in Greece? Will he feel the pull to play against the best again? He may decide to be a middle of the road player in Europe that gets overpaid his entire career. Nothing wrong with that if the money is right.

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This link is for you Sautee and MannyT

http://www.slate.com/id/2218849/?Gt1=38001

Stay thirsty my friends…

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DAM it man….. Good post just got eaten…. Sekou did u zapp me for sayn NWA

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melvin it almost wants to make me grow my hair back along with the beard again. wild thing with experience.

also know that the hawks have closed off try outs for in coming draftees, so what? we wont see them for a couple of years on the court anyway.

on the other hand the trauma would be great if jhan and i couldnt see the in coming talent for the 2009-2010 a town dancers. looks pretty tasty just from the pix they showed. keep it coming ajc.

sekou, were you the one behind the camera? if not, why not bro? you arent getting paid to sit and why miss such a display of pulchitrude or do you just like naked men? samuel talk to the cuz man, he might need someone to hold the lights.

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Doc, I can’t get enough of that guy and his commericals. After all, he is the most interesting man in the Universe… Now only if I can learn how to live vicariously thru myself….lol

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BIG RAY-our bench situation is a combination of both. It’s been under and/or misused and it’s not very deep as it should be. However, we have to attribute some of that to a lack of time, attention and effort committed to development. We must also remember who made the final decision on which players get to sit on that bench. I’m also aware that the HC doesn’t always get to make that decision on every player, but he shouldn’t take it out on the play, since players don’t draft themselves. The intelligent thing to do is to try and get the most out of that player for the overall benefit of the team.

BIG RAY, it’s really frustrating for me to see the Hawks underachieve. The most frustrating thing is knowing the team doesn’t have to go outside for a bunch of new talent to reach the next level. Mentorship, a renewed committment of time, attention and development, and the ability to employ strategy, can be manifested internally.

We just can’t continue running off talented players like Chills, Acie, Salim, Solo etc, just because of the silly hangups and illadvised decisions being made by our GM and HC, not to mention ownership. I wonder what Sund used as a cryteria for having such a low assessment of Chills. He has a liftime shooting % of .522(FMurray .418-MEvans .448), REB’s 5.6(Murray 2.0-Evans 2.7), SCORING 11.1(Murray 9.9-Evans 7.0). Chills also led in career stats in almost every other category and he’s far more versatile than either. When Sund made the decision to give Woodson a 2yr extension, he should have made every effort to give him what he needed to be successful. That included bringing back Chills, a player Woodson obviously valued very highly. Having FMurray and Chills coming off the bench would have been excellent, and would have also made it a lot easier for Woodson. We know ownership gave him the ok to spend the money to resign Chills.

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Dammit, Sekou, you need to suggest to the Hawks hierarchy that 1-2 of their most dedicated fans and bloggers should participate in the A-Town dancer judging. Come on man, membership needs to have some privileges. I promise, my stalking days are over. Just ask Ciara. I haven’t camped in front of her condo in at least the past 3 weeks.

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Sekou, is there any realistic chances of Chill returning to the Hawks!! He’s one of missing elements in the switching defense Woody deploys. He was a good on ball defender with length and athleticism …plus, he used to troll the baseline on offense getting easy throw downs and he would crash the boards for rebounds.

I’m thinking that the Euro league has help enhance his offensive skills. That’s a scary thought considering the caliber of player he was. I just think he knows Woody system and Woody trusted him. That’s got to count for something.

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Darn the Childress issue, is this the last day of the A-Town Dancers competition and if not, you need to report on the date, time and location where interested parties can bring their telescopic photo lenses (oops), I mean where casual observers can cheer on the contestants.

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Astro…whose your buddy?

This week was prep camp for the actual auditions. See audition link in bottom blue bar.

http://www.nba.com/media/hawks/ATown_Dancers_Site.html

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Manny and all you money guys, thanks for clearing up Chills’ cap hold issue. To go back to the credit card analogy though, the bad thing is I might want to use that money to buy something else, but I can’t, so I have nothing to show for it.

Did you guys se Chad Ford’s report on how the first day of the NBA draft combine went?

Two points he mentioned:
1) Lawson was small in stature, and he had a so-so performance.
2) BJ Mullens: They were impressed by his workouts, and think he has a chance to move up.

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O’brien I said in a earlier post I bet that Mullens moves up in the draft. He has the athleticism that gives gm’s hope. His game on the other hand is raw. He could be another Patrick O’Bryant. A guy that excels in these workouts because of their athleticism but have no real game. Only time will tell.

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anybody need a wing man?

manny t, it sounds like this to me. i have 60000 line of credit with american express but i only use about 3000 of it. i went to the porsche place and told the guy about it to maybe save me a cayman in silver. imagine this? he sold it when i didnt come back within the month and sign the dotted line with all my credit. sounds like he was a good business man and chills was one too. funny how so many held it against him.

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Thanks Manny. You may not be the most interesting man in the world, but you’re the most interesting man on Sekou’s blog. Hey, you have to start somewhere. My wife would likely tell you that I’m not even the most interesting man in my house, especially since my oldest looks like the contractor who worked on our deck a few years back.

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Newk,

I like it a LOT, IF McGee is included. Caron is a stud and could adequately replace Joe’s scoring and D. We’d need another shooter though, since Caron’s 3 pt. % is fairly low.

But could Butler play at the 2? Doesn’t he usually play the 3?

And if not, who plays SG?

And would they need JJ to sign an extension first, else it could be a one year rental?

One of the more realistic trade suggestions I’ve seen here. We’d likely have to throw in #19, but it’s a nice idea.

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Sautee, you’re right about Butler playing the 3 in DC, but his frame and mobility are similar to JJ’s. I would try to play him at the 2, but would seek a ‘proven’ fallback via ‘09 FA or via trade.

Polin is getting older (much) and really wants to compete for the O’Brien trophy before that awful clock runs out (it’s relentlessly chasing us all isn’t it?). He may not require JJ to sign an extension (prior to trading for him) if he can be persuaded that a one-year rental (at minimum) of JJ, combined with his current array, will get him a real shot at the 2nd or 3rd round in 2010 (in fact, Polin may not even wish to extend JJ under current market conditions and with the bloated payroll he has already). Orlando tells us anything can happen if you can get to the 2nd round.

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Doc,
That’s too bad. Especially when your significant other authorize you to buy the Porsche in the first place…

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PICK UP TONY DOUGLAS WITH THE 19TH!!

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Did you guys see ths report?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=PreDraftTour-090529

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tyger…interesting thoughts. Do you think Shelden would come back and play for Woody? If he’s looking at low paying options, I think he would prefer to be on the west coast with the wife & new baby.

All that draft camp chatter looks more like we get a PG…hopefully a bigger one (6′ 2″ ish) or the fastest guy that can actaully play at this level (like Mills) if shorter. Not that many bigs available and if BJ Mullens is doing well, he may not last until the 19th pick.

Seems that the new format of the draft camp takes away from seeing guys compete against each other. When you pick as low as we do, I hope there is more of a chance to get guys to come in and mix it up in workouts.

Astro…thanks for the lesson on why one should not buy a fixer upper if the Mrs is in that child bearing zone

doc…Hooters is full of wing men. They say–the more, the merrier.
As for that Porsche, the messy thing is that it was a lease. Sund has to wait for it possibly as long as 3 years, and it keeps popping up on his AmEx as a hold charge.

No hate for Chills, but this could get real messy if he wants to return to the NBA. Just take those David Andersen articles about the financial problems with coming here and replace the name.

Stay thirsty…for hoops…my friends…BWAF

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Sautee, no problem. Manny, I agree that Shelden would most likely be looking for a nice quiet spot on a west coast bench.

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No, the rights have no expiration date (according to cap guru Larry Coon). We can tender every summer and keep him a restricted free agent. However, we almost certainly will not tender every summer because that straps us too much in terms of cap space. This year, the cap hold for Childress is no-harm, no-foul because we’re over the cap anyway. Next summer will be different if we don’t extend JJ (and something tells me we won’t), since in that case, we’d want to have all the cap room we can get.

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JJ has one year left on his conract right? Do the Hawks offer him an extension now, or are they going to wait until the end of the season? Personally, I would like to give him an extension now. However, I dont think he deserves a big pay raise, especially in this economy. He made $14 mil this year, but at 27 years old, I would offer him no more than 5 years, $80 mil. What do you guys think?

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Aside from Chills’ excellent all around basketball skills, I’d like to see us persue him because there’s no doubt he’d have Woodson’s approval. His excellent ballhandling, passing and penetrating skills would also lessen the effects of our PG issues.

Since Woodson is going to be our HC next yr, we should do everything we can to help him be successful by trying to get him whatever players he needs and will accept. At this point, drafting a player that’s not another AHorford type would be a wasted pick, especially if Woodson is kept beyond next season.

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SEKOU, I just had a crazy idea that the Hawks would PROLLY never explore. What do you think the HAWKS would have to give GS to exchange pick #19 for pick #7? Would some combo of pick #19, Acie, Chills or David Andersons rights get us to #7? I think at first (worse case scenario) Curry could fill Flips role if we keep Bibby and ( best case scenario) he explodes after a couple months and becomes our starting point.

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So, LA is going to the finals. Denver shoot themselves in this one. They could have won this series easy. Let’s hope the Magic can hold swerve vs leBron and co.

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Niremetal,

Appreciate. That’s why I called on you, brother! So Hawks have some major off season moves to make!

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Nire,

After evaluating the Hawks cap situation, that’s why I said a few weeks back that I would give Sund a good grade if he could resign our top 4 FA’s, JChills and D.Andersen…

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Melvin,

Agreed. I honestly think we should bring back Chill if it will cost us “only” $7M or so. Same with Andersen if we could lure him here for $4M or less. The problem is that those deals would put us at or over the luxury tax threshold, and I would be surprised if ASG was willing to do that. My guess is that Bibby will stay for a contract that pays him “only” $6.5M or so per year. That $8.5M “savings” over Bibby’s old salary will need to be divvied up between Marvin, Flip, Zaza, Childress, Andersen, and/or any other teams’ free agents. I’d prefer re-signing Flip and Zaza for a modest raise over signing Andersen (though Andersen is significantly better offensively, Zaza is a better defender and rebounder by all accounts, and I think we need that more).

Anyway, we’ll see…

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Would love to keep Bibby but Marvin, Chills ZaZa, Solo, Flip and all the rest need to be resigned. Drop Mario if Chills is available. Chills is just better than most of this blog remembers. Would Chills and Marvin be willing to settle for 4 year deals of 30 million?

Bibby’s money funds the deals. Again I hope there is enough left for Bibby to stay and make everybody happy. I would ask Bibby to do a one year deal. If we lose Bibby all is not lost, we have Acie, Flip and Chills, all with PG experience. Not to mention JJ in a pinch.

We will not win a championship with this team but we would be a better team.

The year after is the big change year. I think we will lose JJ because of salary. We may lose Woody. I still like our core assuming we have Marvin, Chills, Josh, Al, ZaZA, Solo, Flip, Evans, Acie, Gardner, and Hunter.

Of course this line up may change if someone has a bad year while getting the chance to play. Evans, Bibby and Flip only players with any age issues.

I hope Sund and management make Woody commit to deciding the future of players like Solo, Acie, Gardner and Hunter. Next year should still be a building year. Let our young players get a chance to play and grow.

JJ, Bibby and Woody need to agree to involve the front court first or at minimum early shot clock ball rotation, pick and roll with Josh and Al attacking the basket as the preferred offensive push. JJ, Marvin, and Chills making attacking the basket a priority as well.

Bottom line we cannot move to the next level shooting jump shots. The team as a whole has to shoot a higher shooting percentage.

I don’t know how much you remember Chills playing pg at the end of games. Our switching defense was pretty tough. Letting Flip play a few of JJ minutes would keep him fresh.

I would like us to trade our draft pick for a future pick. We have plenty of young players to decide on now. If all this dream stuff actually happened we will have Bibby and JJ to decide on after next year. Maybe we will surprise and improve another 10 games. If not We have JJ and Bibby contracts due. Plenty of room for change.

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You say Shelden Williams, I say Paul Millsap…

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Oh, and did I mention that Paul Millsap plays for JERRY SLOAN, whose system is a wet dream for power forwards? Do you think that Millsap would have been half as productive under Woody? If so, I’ve got a bridge to sell you…

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“Do you think that Millsap would have been half as productive under Woody?”

Pretty much every player drafted from 2006 onward would be less productive under Woody, so that’s pretty irrelevant. This applies even more to front court players, who don’t get any plays run for them in Woody’s system.

When you’re picking late in a weak draft, you’re a lot better off drafting the best player available so you know you’re adding quality depth somewhere, as opposed to reaching for a so-called “need” pick and ending up paying guaranteed money to a scrub. I’m not suggesting by any means that Blair is going to be a perennial All-Star. But I’d definitely rather have a guy like him, who will have one NBA-caliber skill (rebounding) from day one, than someone like BJ Mullens for example who isn’t really good at anything yet and may never be, or a guy like Jeff Teague who hasn’t proven anything over a guy (Acie) we already have on the roster. Blair in my opinion will be a valuable role player from day one — and the best part about someone like him who exists solely to crash the boards and play physically is that no system can really restrict what he does, since he doesn’t need the ball in his hands to succeed.

As far as the Shelden comparisons, not only was Shelden unathletic in college, but he was also rigid and robotic in the post. Blair may not be a spectacular athlete (although I think he’s a better athlete than you do) but he’s a hell of a lot more fluid than Shelden.

Coincidentally, NBADraft.net (not an authoritative source or anything but still somewhat reliable) said about Millsap in ‘06: “Likely to struggle to get the same inside shots and rebounds against bigger and more athletic players on the next level”… more or less the same thing you’re saying about Blair.

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And from his NBADraft.net profile, which is what you actually used:
Long arms and good strength and leaping ability allow him to play bigger than his actual size … great reflexes … Has good agility, runs the floor well. Solid in transition … Explosive leaper …

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CA$H-if JJ is all of the negatives you’re promoting why would someone give up something good for him? NBA executives don’t make a habit of giving up something good for players that fit your description of JJ. Besides, he can’t be as bad as you’re claiming. After all, that’s a lot of negativity for the players and coaches that voted him to 2 consecutive Allstar gms to ignore. If that’s your assessment of a 2 time Allstar, then the SOMETHING GOOD you mentioned getting in return for him would have to be an Allpro.

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Correction. Garret Siler average 16.2 points a game, ,789% FG, .655% FT, 8 RPG, 3 Blk a game.

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Nire,

Let’s say we sign their top 4 FA’s, Chills and Andersen which put the Hawks over the luxury tax. Would they be require to pay the tax if they have an expiring contract (Speedy) that would lower their payroll under the luxury tax before July 1? I thought you can enter a season over the cap but you wouldn’t have to pay the tax if your payroll is under the cap by the deadline (July 1). So in my example above, if the Hawks don’t resign Speedy then they wouldn’t be require to pay the tax. Please advised.

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Newkid, Sign me up- That would be a great deal for us. Caron Butler,Mcgee,#5 for JJ -who might bolt next year any way……. Caron and JJ both average 20 points a game. Its really a trade off becuz jj plays better D but butler is quicker and gets to the rim alot more.

In the process we get a yung athletic center and pick up stephen curry at #5….. Curry, Butler,Mcgee> JJ

If we were to resign Flip, ZAZA, Chills and maybe pick up a Carl Landry who i like alot we would have some serious depth.

PG- Flip/Curry/AC
SG- Butler/Chillz
SF- Marvin/Chillz
PF- Josh/Landry
C- Horford/Mcgee/ZAZA

_Mario,Hunter, 2nd round pick

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Trevor Ariza emerged as a star in the Western Conference finals and there are at least 2 outcomesfrom his emergence that have an effect on the Hawks.
First, he will most likely force the Lakers to part with Lamar Odum who could return to Miami. Reuniting with D-Wade will make Lamar happy and the Heat much ,much better.

On a more positive note, he demonstrated what some seem to forget: a player can greatly improve their shooting skills with hard work and support form the organization. before this year, Trevor was shooting 21% from the 3 point line according to the commentators last night.He had shot a total of about 20 in his prior 3 years in the league but shot 200 3’s this year.As of last night’s game , he was shooting 47% from the 3 point line for the play offs.

Now he may never be confused with Ray Allen but his improvement certainly helped the Lakers beat Denver’s double teams and ultimately win the series.

Another observation regarding the Western Conference finals is that while Carmello Anthony certainly displayed a wide array of talents during the serise, including some decent defensive play occasionally, he has yet demonstated the capacity or desire to make his team mates better. Something that seperates him from Kobe or LaBron. When the Hawks get such a player or one of the current group develops that skill, watch out!

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Niremetal,

“Source That?” Gee, I wonder what the next move is. How about “discredit the source.” Come on man, what’s with the junior league court tactics? I know, to make the tennis match even more fun, you can provide sources that others can then immediately discredit. Now we have a complete court room. Oops, forgot the judge and jury. Hmmmmm. Guess we don’t have those on a blog…..dammit man!

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The big guy looks light on his feet to me. Reminds me of a shorter verison of Big Babe without the jumper. However, Big Babe developed his jumper after he got to Boston…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxxqEKssvgI&feature=PlayList&p=E0DBF87AC7753C9D&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=30

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Niremetal,

“Oh, and did I mention that Paul Millsap plays for JERRY SLOAN, whose system is a wet dream for power forwards? Do you think that Millsap would have been half as productive under Woody? If so, I’ve got a bridge to sell you…”

By that logic, name a draft pick that DOESN’T fall into this category. Oh yes. BJ Mullens, as well, buddy.

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“he does nothing to solve our REAL problem in the frontcourt – the fact that we don’t have a single pure center.”

Off the top of my head, I can name exactly one quality starting center in the NBA right now who was drafted at #19 or later from the NCAA or high school — Kendrick Perkins. If you want to stretch the definition of “quality”, you can also include Brendan Haywood and Sam Dalembert. Keep in mind that NONE of these players came in the league and made an immediate impact. The only other quality starting center drafted that late is Ilgauskas, who would have gone much higher if he had been picked in 1998 and come to the NBA immediately instead of being picked in 1996 and stashed overseas.

The point is, your chances of finding a true quality center at #19 are pretty slim in general, and in a weak draft they’re almost nonexistent. If you think BJ Mullens is going to be the answer to that problem either this year or next, I have a bridge somewhere to sell you. If you’re not referring to Mullens as the solution to the “true center” problem at #19, I wonder who you are advocating with that pick, because the next center on NBADraft.net’s mock draft goes at #53. And knowing Woody’s impeccable player-development skills, what exactly makes you think a project like Mullens will EVER be successful here? At least Blair can come in and contribute immediately at SOMETHING (an area of need, in fact, since the Hawks’ only physical presence and rebounder off the bench right now is Zaza, a free agent). I don’t see where Mullens is going to give us anything more than Solomon Jones for at least his first season or two.

Moreover, I think (or at least I hope) Rick Sund of all people realizes how much trouble you can get into when you overvalue height — see Swift, Robert or Sene, Saer. Quite honestly I hope someone with your mindset reaches for Mullens higher than #19, so that Sund is not tempted to take him.

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OOps. Forgot to post my “source.” DraftExpress.com.

Interesting. They have Dajuan Blair going #11, well before we pick. And here I was thinking this guy was no good. Of course, these are the same guys that had Marvin Williams at #2. Heh….

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Tyler Hansbrough is a nice player but how is he better than Marin Williams? In all honestly it was because of Ty Lawson that North Carolina was so good. When Tyler had to defend the more athletic fowards he was torched. He will be a nice player but I would pass on him if I were the Hawks. I dont think Blair falls to 19 but I cant lie his height is a concern . He is a lot shorter than I thougth he would be. I think he measured out to be like 6′6. Im sorry but I just dont see him being as effective as he was in college. He might end up being another Ike Diago…. Its a few players im looking at for our pick. Terrance Williams, Sam Young, and Austin Daye.

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As it is, both Mullens and Blair are as likely to go higher than #19 as not. So we may get to argue about something else entirely. I’m in favor of a guard at this point….

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CP,

I see Hansbrough as a totally different player than Marvin. Marvin is more finesse, Hansbrough is better built for the back-to-the-basket power game (and he’s still not the NBA prototype for THAT). Marvin=starter. Hansbrough=NOT. He’d be good to bring off the bench. But then, I also think Othello Hunter has some good potential.

Astro Joe,

Also, I agree for the most part about the finesse in our frontcourt. My only exceptions would be Zaza and Horford. Horford’s a pretty tough customer when he’s healthy. Zaza just about has no choice, LOL! If he’s not rugged, he’s nothing.

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KevinA,

Funny thing is, we still lacked the hustle, energy, and “glue.” And Flip is a UFA. And I was NOT impressed with Evans’ defense.

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Yeah. I just don’t get it. The only 6′7/6′8 wrecking ball type who has ever become a regular starter in the past 10 years is Ben Wallace. You’re much more likely to end up with a Shelden or Reggie Evans than a Wallace or even a Millsap or Big Baby. He’s not the type of guy you take in the lottery, or anywhere in the first round, unless you have a specific need at PF. For us, PF is the only position where we don’t have ANY real need. So spending our first round pick on that position would be odd.

Blair may well go higher to a team that – like us in 2006 – desperately needs a defensive/rebounding minded PF or C (remember that back then, more people thought Smoove would turn out to be a SF, not a PF). But if we take Blair, I have visions of people doing a 180 in January when he’s playing just 8 minutes a game and putting up pedestrian numbers even when he’s in. Because players of his height, frame, and lack of athleticism/offensive fluidity rarely become more than bit players.

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Big Ray, you will be eating crow next season. Mark My Word.

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Nire,

Are you purposely ignoring my question?

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Niremetal,

I’d rather take a good guard than Blair, but even then, I’m not ENTIRELY sure which guy that would be. And that’s no knock on Blair, just a position I think needs more attention.

I understand that we don’t have a huge need at PF. But I’m also not looking at a starter with that pick, unless it’s a guard. Now if Blair falls to #19, I figure all the guards worth picking that “high” are gone. So, I’d be okay with a guy whom I believe has what it takes to get more minutes than you say he will. I guess that’s where we disagree. Let’s say Zaza doesn’t re-sign, or isn’t in the plans for the future. Who does our rebounding off the bench? This guy ain’t Solo. Solo long, lean, athletic, and continuously gets pushed out of the paint. Love him, but he’s not a rugged type.

You shouldn’t insult Reggie Evans by putting him in the same sentence as Sheldon.

Here is a point of interest: if you don’t see a need at PF, then you must be happy with Josh Smith at that position, seeing as how that’s where he plays….;)

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Tony,

Eating crow about what? Thinking that Tyler Hansborough will not be a starter? Yeah, I could be wrong about that. But I don’t think it will happen anytime too soon, and maybe not at all. That doesn’t make him a bad player at all. He is a very heady, solid player. I just don’t see him starting. Not a knock on him at all. But hey, if you can cook it, I’ll eat it…

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Melvin,

Nice link. Can’t imagine why anybody would see THAT as unathletic….

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Heh. Forgot Bynum and Shaq. But you get the idea…

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Ray,

I know you’re not gonna go on YouTube mix tapes of the BEST of a player to determine how athletic he is. There are some mix tapes that make Shelden look athletic, Speedy look an All-Star, and Smoove look like LeBron

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Ray,

Oh, I’m not saying Josh is overpaid. But this year, I would lay odds that there aren’t more than 2-3 teams in the league that turned a profit. Josh’s contract will be a bargain once the economy turns around. But until the economy turns around, any contract paying $44M over 4 years will scare off teams unless the name of the player is LeBron or Dwight – i.e. someone who you KNOW will put butts in seats.

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“Can’t imagine why anybody would see THAT as unathletic.”

What was on that tape looked athletic to me. What I saw in tournament footage looked athletic. It’s about what you expect from a guy who is 6′6.5″ and about 280 lbs. Just sayin’….

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Yeah, I believe that. Which is why it’s going to be interesting what Sund does to keep things in line talent-wise, and finance-wise. Not an easy job, but one he gets paid to do…

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Forget the Douglas kid from FSU. If we don’t take 1 of the top 7 pg at #19. I say we pick this Curtis Jerrells from Baylor. This kids has the size, penterates and handles like AC, shoot from distance like Salim and elevates like Mario. With those comparisons I just made him a Hawk. Passing skills! Who cares, just shoot it…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9anGAmF9sg

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Tony,

The team is not better with Marvin not in the starting line up. What are you looking at to determine that? And Tyler Hansborough can’t take Marvin’s place if thats what you were saying, but he would help the team. I know nothing of Siler except that he is going late second round. And alot of people
passed on Bynum because he was a project. Seeing how we are great at developing players and putting them in situations to succeed it would have been great to take him.

Big Ray,
I don’t think Smoove matches LEbron athletically. He might be able to jump as high, but he isn’t as fast or balanced. And Lebron is carrying more weight whether it be muscle or not. On top of all that Lebron is just more stable athletically with so much more control.

Flip was a great addition. I thought Mo was going to be a little bit more athletic, but trust me if we brought Childress back he would quickly remind you how much he meant to this team.

As far as who I think we should draft……. I don’t know we need to get bigger Seven Feet big, but if Acie Law leaves we will need a point guard. there won’t be anybody there to add any real think at that pick in Woody’s system so I would say Holiday like Tony said earlier.

What we should really do is trade the pick away to a team we know won’t be out of the lottery anytime soon for a future pick that they will probably want to protect. Maybe we can put Mo with it and bring back Chill and then our bench will be boosted.

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Astro Joe,

I hear you.

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Oh, and by the way, I bet the kid from FSU does not even get drafted —- which means we can sign him to a free agent deal and bring him to camp.

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ok lets b real lets trade Joe Johnson he took 1,420 (a rookie could do this)shotsONLY avg 20.0pg.Even if Woodson runs all of the plays through you set up other players we can’t bench you.Joe you are not a Kobe or LeBron even Wade look at it Wade even pass the ball in playoffs. Together Smith and Horford took 1,443 shots he holding players back. Lets find a real SG that plays team ball in draft or trade 2 for one.

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It’s amazing how many times LeBron moves his pivot foot BEFORE the dribble hits the floor. Anybody ever seen him called for it?

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So lets do an Amare Stoudemire trade for Acie Law and Josh Smith!!

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Barkley: “these ain’t no damn Hawks…”

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You guys know this trade stuff better than I. Why would aybody want to take Speedy at 5 mil. Would giving our draft with Speedy entice someone to take him off our books? This whould help fund the Chills deal?.

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i think its important that we remember what system the Hawks play in when it comes to drafting and free agency. since we iso every position on the floor i think we need to bring in these type of players, someone who can create his own shot or score in one on one situations. Blair or Hansboro (travel… travel… every time) doesnt do that for me… his size will be an issue in our system.

i do however like the idea of drafting a Toney D. the boy can create, shoot, defend, has a lot of heart.. a pure dog. i also like Sam Young from Pitt. he’s been there like forever. to me he’s NBA ready.. a versatile scoring threat (that nasty pump fake) and a solid defender. He appears to be a guy who will get to the line a lot at the next level.

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Watching Dwight “Superman” Howard carry his Orlando Magic team to the NBA finals, I couldn’t help but blame David Stern that its not the Atlanta Hawks going to the finals instead of the Magic b/c he could have given the Hawks the same hometown hookup that he Cavs for the No.1 draft slot. It wasn’t like the Magic hadn’t won two No.1 lottery picks (Shaq, Webber) prior to the Dwight Howard sweepstakes…

Fire David Stern

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CONGRATS TO THE HOMEBOY… GO WIN THE TITLE!!

hey Melvin… i doubt Orlando lets another Hall of Fame center walk…

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Doc,

There will be no popcorn sold during the Finals series… Ha,ha Lorenzo will not get that ring this year….

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I’m sure Shaq wont get any sleep this summer know that two of his favorite persons (Kobe and Van Gundy) will win the championship this year… Shaq, how’s Kobe @#$ taste….lol

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