Wanted: Role Players!
Frontcourt help like Charlie Villanueva could make a huge difference for the Hawks in the future.
HAWKSVILLE – I know that the NBA hype machine would have you believe that the NBA playoffs is basically a test of wills between Kobe Bryant and LeBron James.
If you let the networks tell it, we’re all just bearing witness to the crowning of the king or the validation of KB24’s reign as the heir to his Airness.
Count Magic superstar center and Atlanta native Dwight Howard among those who have heard just about enough. And the AJC’s own Jeff Schultz isn’t far behind Howard in the enough is enough line.
The only problem with all the Kobe/LeBron fuss is that arguably the two most critical guys on the floor thus far in these outstanding Eastern and Western Conference finals have been Lakers’ swingman Trevor Ariza and Orlando Magic super sub Mickael Pietrus.
As well Bryant, James, Howard, Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Pau Gasol, Rashard Lewis, Hedo Turkoglu and all the other major players have played during certain stretches, Ariza and Pietrus have been just as, if not more important to their team’s efforts.
Ariza’s made two game-clinching plays to seal wins for the Lakers, both defensive gems on inbounds plays. And Pietrus has not only been a lights out shooter against the Cavs, he’s played James as well defensively as any player I’ve seen in the last three seasons – and that includes defensive stalwarts Ron Artest and Bruce Bowen.
Now I’ll admit that my theory could be the product of viewing way too much playoff basketball the past month and counting, or an excessive amount of fumes to the dome from a long weekend spent over the top of my grill. But it seems like the contributions of these two role players will have as much to do with who plays in the NBA Finals as any singular effort from a superstar for any of the four teams remaining in this postseason.
Which brings me to our favorite topic ‘round these parts … the Hawks and their roster in need of major surgery this summer (more on that below).
Folks keep telling me about who needs to go to make this team better. And I keep thinking about what they need to add to this group to get better.
The Hawks need guys like Ariza and Pietrus to complete what they started with last year’s playoff appearance and continued this season with their Eastern Conference semifinal appearance.
Flip Murray and Mo Evans qualify, as does Zaza Pachulia. But of the three, only Evans is guaranteed to be in a Hawks uniform in the fall. Not only do the Hawks need to find ways to keep Murray and Pachulia in the fold, they need to find more guys like them (or better).
That’s where the Hawks greatest improvement will come next season (save a blockbuster trade), in the sum of their parts. And those parts have to improve down the roster.
Can you imagine the Hawks with an explosive scoring power forward like Charlie Villanueva (a restricted free agent this summer with a bit of a Twitter habit) or Chris Wilcox (another free agent this summer) coming off of their bench? And not as a replacement for Pachulia but as a running mate. That’s the kind of addition that helps recast the Hawks for next season.
If you’re serious about keeping the core together and still improving your roster, which is the theme we’ve heard from the Hawks non-stop since they were swept out of the playoffs.
DRAFT CHATTER is the favorite topic of many this time of year, and for good reason.
Draftniks everywhere have man-crushes on Spanish sensation Ricky Rubio ...
Spanish point guard phenom Ricky Rubio is the guy generating the most attention in the draft, for reasons good and apparently bad, per some folks.
The fine folks at TrueHoop did a bang up job detailing the luster and the risk of a player like Rubio, who is universally regarded as the best point guard “prospect” to come out of Europe in some time, and perhaps ever.
My most trusted source on all things Rubio is Lang Whitaker of SLAM Magazine, who has been on the Rubio bandwagon for years now. He’s the first person I can remember having seen Rubio play in person. And as best I can remember, he was the first writer to travel to Spain to interview and write about Rubio. So I’m going on his word that Rubio is going to be a star in the NBA.
“He is,” Whitaker said by phone Tuesday morning from his New York office. “The thing with Rubio is … did you see the gold medal game? He played great against Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Jason Kidd. I don’t know who else you want to see him against to convince you that he’s going to be a star.”
Lang doesn’t have to convince me. I’m willing to play along with the international charade as long as the player is as talented as Rubio (and I did watch the gold medal game. Rubio made some nice plays but he wasn’t what stood out to me).
But not everyone I’ve talked to is convinced.
“I’d much rather have Derrick Rose,” one Eastern Conference executive told me by phone Tuesday morning. “And it’s not even close in my eyes. Don’t get me wrong, Rubio is talented. He might have tons of potential. But seriously, how many times have we said that about one of these young kids and then he gets over here and we find out there are all these things about his game that just don’t add up in the NBA? That’s what worries me about Rubio. We’ve seen glimpses of him against NBA competition. It’s just like when you watch Rudy Fernandez and Linas Kleiza look unstoppable in international play and then they get to the NBA season and you realize it’s a totally different game. Rubio is going to find the same issues where his game is concerned.”
How that’s different from any other college player/prospect is beyond me. I mean, who knew Rose would be so good from the start? Actually, lots of people expected it. In fact, that’s what led the draft debate last year between Rose and Michael Beasley. There doesn’t seem to be the same sort of debate between the point guard and power forward this year (I’ve heard very few people discuss let alone advocate taking Rubio over Blake Griffin).
... while others wonder if he's even in the same class as a transcendent talent like Chicago's own Derrick Rose.
“A much better gauge is a guy who has dominated in Europe and then comes over here at the top of his game, like Pau Gasol did, like Manu Ginobili did and Luis Scola did,” the Eastern Conference exec continued.” They showed up ready to play because they weren’t just prospects, they were established players and really stars over there. The bottom line is this, the way you develop young players here and in Europe is vastly different. And it doesn’t always work best for young international players over here.”
An unabashed Hawks fan, Lang barked at me over a week ago about what he wants to see his hometown team do with the 19th pick in the June draft.
His email from last week:
Rick Sund’s last three first round picks? Robert Swift, Saer Sene and Johan Petro.
I really hope the Hawks draft Toney Douglas from FSU. We need to get his name out there. Dude can shoot, drives all the time, can play the 1 and 2 and was ACC defensive player of the year. And he’s from Jonesboro. I don’t understand why more people aren’t talking about him. Coach K said this at the ACC Tournament: ”He’s my favorite non-Duke player in the country. I love that guy. I talk about him a lot to our guys. They’re probably mad at me. He’s as good as there is in college.”
THE HAWKS AREN’T THE ONLY TEAM IN THE SOUTHEAST DIVISION stuck in point guard limbo with the draft and free agency fast approaching. The team the Hawks vanquished in the first round of the playoffs is in a similar predicament, though the Miami Heat already have one proven building block in Mario Chalmers.
My main man Mike Wallace of the Miami Herald points out as much in his latest blog, shouting out Hawks point guards past and present in the process:
And it makes you wonder. Why does every other team in the league seem to have a spare Flip Murray on the roster, yet the Heat goes two seasons without one? Shaun Livingston didn’t have the legs. Marcus Banks lacked the skills. And Penny Hardaway – dare we say – didn’t have anything left other than pleasant memories of when he used to be somebody in this league.
This Magic-Cavs series is stocked with serviceable, stop-gap type veteran parts at the point that Miami either tried to get and couldn’t, parted with too soon or probably should have pursued harder when it had the chance.
Orlando has three of them: Rafer Alston, Anthony Johnson and Tyronn Lue.
How crazy would it be to see the Magic make the NBA Finals with two point guards (Johnson and Lue for those of you who have just recently joined us here in Hawksville) the Hawks shipped out of town to get Mike Bibby on their roster?
Might Jonesboro's Toney Douglas be an option for the Hawks with the 19th pick in the June NBA Draft? It's an intriguing idea, courtesy of Lang Whitaker of SLAM Magazine.
And depending on what happens in July, Bibby could be joining them as ex-Hawks point guards.
The Hawks, of course, are in need of a starting material at the point. And that might come in the form of Bibby, if the Hawks can find a way to reel him back in from the free agent waters with the right deal, or someone else.
Speaking of Bibby, the good folks at Hawksquawk, threw some great questions my way about the team and where things might be headed. And as you can probably imagine, Bibby’s name came up several times.
We’ve discussed Bibby endlessly around here, so won’t go into detail about the tenor of the conversation they are having about him elsewhere. But I’ll share this one question and answer (and suggest you check out the rest of it on their site (which is pretty impressive, by the way):
Q. Was there a change in the locker-room demeanor since the addition of Bibby? Did he bring a playoff presence to the Hawks team? Is there any urgency (or perceived urgency) to resign Flip?
A. Bibby assumed a leadership position automatically, which is what the Hawks needed. He eased the pressure on Joe and Woodson as well, which needed to happen. And more than a playoff presence he brought a sense of accountability to the locker room, which was lacking before his arrival. He was the right personality and player at just the right time for the Hawks. It was almost like he added that “why not us?” factor to this team that wasn’t there before, a sense of they could do some things with him that didn’t really seem possible until he showed up. Flip proved invaluable this season and while I wouldn’t call it urgency, there’s certainly a need to make sure Flip is kept in the fold.
WITH SO MANY ROSTER QUESTIONS TO DEAL WITH THIS SUMMER it’s hard for me to imagine the Hawks’ brass taking too many days off between now and late July.
I know they’ve begun their predraft workouts, which unlike in years past are not open to the media. And the scaled down predraft camp has moved back to Chicago from Orlando this summer. It begins this week and runs into this weekend.
As far as the Hawks’ individual workouts, I’m not sure there will be much to talk about anyway. Astro Joe emailed a little while ago wondering if they’d begun and whether or not I’d seen anything worth talking about. I promptly relayed the story to him of Al Horford’s workout two years ago that left quite a few people scratching their heads as to what all the fuss was about.
Billy Knight went 1-for-2 (so far) in the first round of his last draft with the Hawks.
Had the Hawks based their pick in that year’s draft on the workout alone, Horford might not have been the choice (luckily for us all Billy Knight stuck to his “gimme the best power forward type I can get at this spot” guns and made the right call).
Different teams value different things in the predraft process. Some want to see what a guy looks like on the hoof or how he tests out in various drills that have little or nothing to do with why you’d want a guy on your team.
Others want to see if he interviews a certain way, wanting to make sure they’re adding the right type of guy to their team. Me, I need to know a guy can play. And I’m positive I can tell more from watching him play in games than I can from anything he’ll do in a scripted workout.
But that doesn’t mean I won’t relay what I’m hearing leading up to the draft. After all, this is easily one of the Hawks’ most critical summers in a string of huge ones. What they do in the draft and free agency basically determines if they’re going to stay among the upper echelon of the Eastern Conference or slide back down to the playoff purgatory waters that they bathed in for years.
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657 comments Add your comment
Najeh Davenpoop
May 29th, 2009
11:54 pm
Just saw that Eddie Jordan got hired by the Sixers. If you thought that athletic team caused matchup problems this year, wait until Jordan institutes the offense he ran in New Jersey with Jason Kidd (who, by the way, is a free agent). More than any other team below them, I could easily see the Sixers making a move past the Hawks next year if the Hawks don’t make significant improvements.
Melvin
May 30th, 2009
12:11 am
Nire,
After evaluating the Hawks cap situation, that’s why I said a few weeks back that I would give Sund a good grade if he could resign our top 4 FA’s, JChills and D.Andersen…
KevinA
May 30th, 2009
12:41 am
Childress scores 23 extending the series. They are down 1-3 in a race to 5. Childress also scored 23 in the first game. I would really like to see this guy come back. I know Flip and Evans played good but Chills is a better defender and tough player.
niremetal
May 30th, 2009
1:08 am
Melvin,
Agreed. I honestly think we should bring back Chill if it will cost us “only” $7M or so. Same with Andersen if we could lure him here for $4M or less. The problem is that those deals would put us at or over the luxury tax threshold, and I would be surprised if ASG was willing to do that. My guess is that Bibby will stay for a contract that pays him “only” $6.5M or so per year. That $8.5M “savings” over Bibby’s old salary will need to be divvied up between Marvin, Flip, Zaza, Childress, Andersen, and/or any other teams’ free agents. I’d prefer re-signing Flip and Zaza for a modest raise over signing Andersen (though Andersen is significantly better offensively, Zaza is a better defender and rebounder by all accounts, and I think we need that more).
Anyway, we’ll see…
Najeh Davenpoop
May 30th, 2009
1:15 am
Slam magazine has a brief list of pre-draft measurements posted. Most of these players will be gone by the time the Hawks pick, but I’ll say it one more time — if DeJuan Blair is available where the Hawks pick, they would be insane to pass him up. A 7′2″ wingspan more than makes up for being a few inches too short.
KevinA
May 30th, 2009
1:47 am
Would love to keep Bibby but Marvin, Chills ZaZa, Solo, Flip and all the rest need to be resigned. Drop Mario if Chills is available. Chills is just better than most of this blog remembers. Would Chills and Marvin be willing to settle for 4 year deals of 30 million?
Bibby’s money funds the deals. Again I hope there is enough left for Bibby to stay and make everybody happy. I would ask Bibby to do a one year deal. If we lose Bibby all is not lost, we have Acie, Flip and Chills, all with PG experience. Not to mention JJ in a pinch.
We will not win a championship with this team but we would be a better team.
The year after is the big change year. I think we will lose JJ because of salary. We may lose Woody. I still like our core assuming we have Marvin, Chills, Josh, Al, ZaZA, Solo, Flip, Evans, Acie, Gardner, and Hunter.
Of course this line up may change if someone has a bad year while getting the chance to play. Evans, Bibby and Flip only players with any age issues.
I hope Sund and management make Woody commit to deciding the future of players like Solo, Acie, Gardner and Hunter. Next year should still be a building year. Let our young players get a chance to play and grow.
JJ, Bibby and Woody need to agree to involve the front court first or at minimum early shot clock ball rotation, pick and roll with Josh and Al attacking the basket as the preferred offensive push. JJ, Marvin, and Chills making attacking the basket a priority as well.
Bottom line we cannot move to the next level shooting jump shots. The team as a whole has to shoot a higher shooting percentage.
I don’t know how much you remember Chills playing pg at the end of games. Our switching defense was pretty tough. Letting Flip play a few of JJ minutes would keep him fresh.
I would like us to trade our draft pick for a future pick. We have plenty of young players to decide on now. If all this dream stuff actually happened we will have Bibby and JJ to decide on after next year. Maybe we will surprise and improve another 10 games. If not We have JJ and Bibby contracts due. Plenty of room for change.
niremetal
May 30th, 2009
1:52 am
Najeh,
Shelden had the same build – 6′8, but with a 7′4 wingspan. Wingspan don’t mean a thing if you’re unathletic, have no offensive game, and have to rely on brute strength and hustle to get everything. That applies to Blair as much or more than it applied to Shelden, which is why he’s looking like a mid-to-late first round pick in a relatively weak draft.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 30th, 2009
2:40 am
You say Shelden Williams, I say Paul Millsap…
niremetal
May 30th, 2009
3:26 am
Paul Millsap came to the league with a stronger post repertoire than Shelden and certainly than Blair. He also is way, WAY more athletic than Blair. Go back and read all the scouting reports about Millsap from 2006, and pretty much all of them discuss how he had sneaky athleticism considering his strong, wide frame.
In any case, I’ll shoot someone if we pick an undersized power forward – which is our position of LEAST need going into this draft.
niremetal
May 30th, 2009
3:29 am
Oh, and did I mention that Paul Millsap plays for JERRY SLOAN, whose system is a wet dream for power forwards? Do you think that Millsap would have been half as productive under Woody? If so, I’ve got a bridge to sell you…
Ed
May 30th, 2009
3:48 am
Astro Joe
May 29th, 2009
7:41 pm
Terrific link you posted Astro. The Hawks will have no shot at Jrue H. or BJ Mullens.
J-Chill was the glue of the Hawks last year. He held things together doing all the things coaches love but never show up when contract negotiations come up. He always finished games and his leadership / skills were not replaced by Mo & Flip. His absence was sorely missed.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 30th, 2009
3:50 am
“Do you think that Millsap would have been half as productive under Woody?”
Pretty much every player drafted from 2006 onward would be less productive under Woody, so that’s pretty irrelevant. This applies even more to front court players, who don’t get any plays run for them in Woody’s system.
When you’re picking late in a weak draft, you’re a lot better off drafting the best player available so you know you’re adding quality depth somewhere, as opposed to reaching for a so-called “need” pick and ending up paying guaranteed money to a scrub. I’m not suggesting by any means that Blair is going to be a perennial All-Star. But I’d definitely rather have a guy like him, who will have one NBA-caliber skill (rebounding) from day one, than someone like BJ Mullens for example who isn’t really good at anything yet and may never be, or a guy like Jeff Teague who hasn’t proven anything over a guy (Acie) we already have on the roster. Blair in my opinion will be a valuable role player from day one — and the best part about someone like him who exists solely to crash the boards and play physically is that no system can really restrict what he does, since he doesn’t need the ball in his hands to succeed.
As far as the Shelden comparisons, not only was Shelden unathletic in college, but he was also rigid and robotic in the post. Blair may not be a spectacular athlete (although I think he’s a better athlete than you do) but he’s a hell of a lot more fluid than Shelden.
Coincidentally, NBADraft.net (not an authoritative source or anything but still somewhat reliable) said about Millsap in ‘06: “Likely to struggle to get the same inside shots and rebounds against bigger and more athletic players on the next level”… more or less the same thing you’re saying about Blair.
niremetal
May 30th, 2009
4:05 am
I can’t believe you just put “fluid” and “Blair” in the same sentence. Wow…
Way to selectively quote Millsap’s DraftExpress profile. See, I can do it too:
Offensively, Millsap is able to do a lot of damage at the mid-major level thanks to his bulk, athleticism, tenacious attitude and the way he runs the floor.
He is athletic, but not an explosive freak…
In any case, I have no problem taking Blair with our second round pick, which is where Millsap was taken. But he won’t get any PT on the Hawks with our bevy of forwards, and I doubt he’ll end up being much of anything in the NBA. As I said, why on earth would we pick a guy who’ll NEVER get more than 7 minutes a game as long as we have Josh and Al, and he does nothing to solve our REAL problem in the frontcourt – the fact that we don’t have a single pure center.
niremetal
May 30th, 2009
4:07 am
And from his NBADraft.net profile, which is what you actually used:
Long arms and good strength and leaping ability allow him to play bigger than his actual size … great reflexes … Has good agility, runs the floor well. Solid in transition … Explosive leaper …
Ca$h
May 30th, 2009
5:07 am
Joe the Joke!! Unforced turnover committing, baby-bottom soft paint attempt shooting, 1 foot jumping, injury complex from Phoenix having, contact shying, overpaid, non-shot contesting, traveling, no-show in the playoffs performing, contested shot settling, shot-clock wasting, weak dribbling, often stripped and blocked handling, 2 free-throws the whole game shooting, zipped-lipped, emotionless, last man back in transition running, non fast break finishing, once every two months dunking, defeatist attitude having, excuse making, useless baseline game having, waste of a 6′7 240 lb frame. Offense or no offense, these are shortcomings that I can’t bear to watch from a supposed “number 1″ option any more. He barley puts up 20.0ppg in season and in the playoff thanks to Josh we beat Mami Heat… he over paid for his talent and age he not going to get much better due to his age. O yea again he over paid… TRADE him why we still can. I think we could get something good 4 him…lol
Ken Strickland
May 30th, 2009
7:18 am
CA$H-if JJ is all of the negatives you’re promoting why would someone give up something good for him? NBA executives don’t make a habit of giving up something good for players that fit your description of JJ. Besides, he can’t be as bad as you’re claiming. After all, that’s a lot of negativity for the players and coaches that voted him to 2 consecutive Allstar gms to ignore. If that’s your assessment of a 2 time Allstar, then the SOMETHING GOOD you mentioned getting in return for him would have to be an Allpro.
tony
May 30th, 2009
8:14 am
Who we should take in this year’s draft is a no-brainer. We must draft Tyler Hansbrough if he falls to us and here’s why.
#1)NC Tarheels produces the most NBA championship players: Billy Cunningham, James Worthy, Michael Jordan, Rick Fox, Rasheed Wallace, Kenny Smith, Bob McAdoo. That’s not counting the Tarheel players who are currently having an impact in the NBA:Vance Carter and Antawn Jamison. I didn’t include Marvin William because he was not a Tarheel starter nor was he a impact player for the Tarheels. We should have never drafted him.
#2) Tyler Hansbrough is the Tarheels All-Time Leading Scorer and here’s why he is their leading scorer: He loves to draw contact because he knows he can score from the foul line where he’s shooting 84% and he can knock down those mid-range shots.
#3) He’s a winner.
#4) He hustles on every play.
#5) He plays smart.(Something this team don’t do)
We should take Garret Siler in the 2nd round. He’s 7′0 305lbs. Trust me, he’s the sleeper in this draft. This kid is shooting 88.5%FG. He average 14 points a game. He is a solid shot blocker and rebounder.
tony
May 30th, 2009
8:33 am
Correction. Garret Siler average 16.2 points a game, ,789% FG, .655% FT, 8 RPG, 3 Blk a game.
Sautee
May 30th, 2009
9:37 am
Niremetal,
You must have missed this, so I’ll repost:
When we were discussing Childress you said this: “No NBA team in a position to sign him or trade useful assets for him was willing to pay him more than ~$6.5M.”
What was your source? I’ve never seen that anywhere. I could easily BELIEVE it, but I’ve never seen it.
Melvin
May 30th, 2009
9:38 am
Nire,
Let’s say we sign their top 4 FA’s, Chills and Andersen which put the Hawks over the luxury tax. Would they be require to pay the tax if they have an expiring contract (Speedy) that would lower their payroll under the luxury tax before July 1? I thought you can enter a season over the cap but you wouldn’t have to pay the tax if your payroll is under the cap by the deadline (July 1). So in my example above, if the Hawks don’t resign Speedy then they wouldn’t be require to pay the tax. Please advised.
RealSquawk
May 30th, 2009
9:44 am
Tony,
You might be right about us needing the help with Tyler especially since he measured in at 6′9″ with shoes and with his arms up is taller than blake griffin.
However if we don’t get somebody bigger than him. Then we probably don’t get any better.
I MUS.WRITE
May 30th, 2009
10:04 am
Newkid, Sign me up- That would be a great deal for us. Caron Butler,Mcgee,#5 for JJ -who might bolt next year any way……. Caron and JJ both average 20 points a game. Its really a trade off becuz jj plays better D but butler is quicker and gets to the rim alot more.
In the process we get a yung athletic center and pick up stephen curry at #5….. Curry, Butler,Mcgee> JJ
If we were to resign Flip, ZAZA, Chills and maybe pick up a Carl Landry who i like alot we would have some serious depth.
PG- Flip/Curry/AC
SG- Butler/Chillz
SF- Marvin/Chillz
PF- Josh/Landry
C- Horford/Mcgee/ZAZA
_Mario,Hunter, 2nd round pick
Ken Strickland
May 30th, 2009
10:37 am
I MUS.WRITE-I like that idea as well. Even though CButler’s DEF isn’t on par with JJ’s, having a PG next to him that doesn’t think he’s a matador would more than make up the difference. And more importantly, all of the players would likely be accepted by Woodson.
We have to do something to retain our key players. If we can’t spend the big bucks to keep them, we have to create an atmosphere within the organization and around the team that would make them consider taking less to stay. It’s certainly not the city that’s turning them off.
ILL-logical
May 30th, 2009
10:42 am
Trevor Ariza emerged as a star in the Western Conference finals and there are at least 2 outcomesfrom his emergence that have an effect on the Hawks.
First, he will most likely force the Lakers to part with Lamar Odum who could return to Miami. Reuniting with D-Wade will make Lamar happy and the Heat much ,much better.
On a more positive note, he demonstrated what some seem to forget: a player can greatly improve their shooting skills with hard work and support form the organization. before this year, Trevor was shooting 21% from the 3 point line according to the commentators last night.He had shot a total of about 20 in his prior 3 years in the league but shot 200 3’s this year.As of last night’s game , he was shooting 47% from the 3 point line for the play offs.
Now he may never be confused with Ray Allen but his improvement certainly helped the Lakers beat Denver’s double teams and ultimately win the series.
Another observation regarding the Western Conference finals is that while Carmello Anthony certainly displayed a wide array of talents during the serise, including some decent defensive play occasionally, he has yet demonstated the capacity or desire to make his team mates better. Something that seperates him from Kobe or LaBron. When the Hawks get such a player or one of the current group develops that skill, watch out!
tony
May 30th, 2009
10:43 am
RealSquawk, I understand your concern, but there isn’t a center in my opinion who we can draft in the 1st round who will have an immediate impact for us. There are many reason why we should draft Tyler Hansbrough. Another reason is that Marvin William is not a NBA starter. As a matter of fact, this team played better without Marvin in the lineup. Don’t be supprise if Tyler become the rookie of the year. I sure hope we draft him in he fall to 19.
I believe Garret Siler will develop into a nice center for us. I just hope we don’t pass up on him like we passed up on Andrew Bynum. Garret Siler could be the best center in this draft.
Between Tyler and Jrue Holiday(pg) are the 2 players who could help this team rite away. Both are smart discipline players who will listen to Mike Woodson.
Big Ray
May 30th, 2009
10:43 am
Niremetal,
“Source That?” Gee, I wonder what the next move is. How about “discredit the source.” Come on man, what’s with the junior league court tactics? I know, to make the tennis match even more fun, you can provide sources that others can then immediately discredit. Now we have a complete court room. Oops, forgot the judge and jury. Hmmmmm. Guess we don’t have those on a blog…..dammit man!
Big Ray
May 30th, 2009
11:02 am
Dajuan Blair is no offensive dynamo, but that’s not what you pick him up for. He’s a rebounder and defender who will turn into an opportunistic scorer, if he’s not one already.
I don’t see how he’s anything like Sheldon Williams. Sheldon had no heart. Blair does. Sheldon had some of the worst footwork on either end of the court that I’ve ever seen from a guy his size. I have no idea how you can be that big and constantly give up position on defense, and on the boards.
Blair does not seem to have that problem. He goes after rebounds. Sheldon did not. Am I saying we should draft Blair in the first round? Am I saying we should draft him at all? No. I’m saying I think Blair is a different guy altogether. And when you have a bevy of forwards, in which only three of them actually play (and that’s if you’re counting Horford), where’s all the lost PT?
I see the same problem for BJ Mullens. Sure he’s a 7-footer, but there are lots of those in the league, at the end of the bench. Where does he get his PT if we re-sign Zaza and keep Horford at starting center?
Melvin
May 30th, 2009
11:12 am
The big guy looks light on his feet to me. Reminds me of a shorter verison of Big Babe without the jumper. However, Big Babe developed his jumper after he got to Boston…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxxqEKssvgI&feature=PlayList&p=E0DBF87AC7753C9D&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=30
Big Ray
May 30th, 2009
11:34 am
Melvin,
Good comparison.
Tony,
I like Tyler Hansbrough. He’ll play well off of somebody’s bench. He’s definitely a smart guy who not only knows his limitations, but knows how to exploit what he does have. I don’t know figure him to be a starter anywhere, and probably not a good pick for us in the first round. Ah well. You can’t get ‘em all.
Big Ray
May 30th, 2009
11:38 am
Niremetal,
“Oh, and did I mention that Paul Millsap plays for JERRY SLOAN, whose system is a wet dream for power forwards? Do you think that Millsap would have been half as productive under Woody? If so, I’ve got a bridge to sell you…”
By that logic, name a draft pick that DOESN’T fall into this category. Oh yes. BJ Mullens, as well, buddy.
Heehaw
May 30th, 2009
11:40 am
Niremetal,
You must have missed this, so I’ll repost:
When we were discussing Childress you said this: “No NBA team in a position to sign him or trade useful assets for him was willing to pay him more than ~$6.5M.”
What was your source? I’ve never seen that anywhere. I could easily BELIEVE it, but I’ve never seen it.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 30th, 2009
11:49 am
“he does nothing to solve our REAL problem in the frontcourt – the fact that we don’t have a single pure center.”
Off the top of my head, I can name exactly one quality starting center in the NBA right now who was drafted at #19 or later from the NCAA or high school — Kendrick Perkins. If you want to stretch the definition of “quality”, you can also include Brendan Haywood and Sam Dalembert. Keep in mind that NONE of these players came in the league and made an immediate impact. The only other quality starting center drafted that late is Ilgauskas, who would have gone much higher if he had been picked in 1998 and come to the NBA immediately instead of being picked in 1996 and stashed overseas.
The point is, your chances of finding a true quality center at #19 are pretty slim in general, and in a weak draft they’re almost nonexistent. If you think BJ Mullens is going to be the answer to that problem either this year or next, I have a bridge somewhere to sell you. If you’re not referring to Mullens as the solution to the “true center” problem at #19, I wonder who you are advocating with that pick, because the next center on NBADraft.net’s mock draft goes at #53. And knowing Woody’s impeccable player-development skills, what exactly makes you think a project like Mullens will EVER be successful here? At least Blair can come in and contribute immediately at SOMETHING (an area of need, in fact, since the Hawks’ only physical presence and rebounder off the bench right now is Zaza, a free agent). I don’t see where Mullens is going to give us anything more than Solomon Jones for at least his first season or two.
Moreover, I think (or at least I hope) Rick Sund of all people realizes how much trouble you can get into when you overvalue height — see Swift, Robert or Sene, Saer. Quite honestly I hope someone with your mindset reaches for Mullens higher than #19, so that Sund is not tempted to take him.
Big Ray
May 30th, 2009
11:55 am
One player who really doesn’t seem to have very much positive buzz these days is Ty Lawson. “Injury prone” one assistant GM calls him. “A backup point guard…he’s 100% behind Jonny Flynn” another NBA representative says. “He’s a product of North Carolina’s system” a third told us. Lawson seems to be outside of the lottery at the moment, but still has a good chance to be picked by two teams looking for point guards in the late teens, Philadelphia (#17) and Atlanta (#19). He’ll have to keep Eric Maynor at bay, though.
Big Ray
May 30th, 2009
12:02 pm
OOps. Forgot to post my “source.” DraftExpress.com.
Interesting. They have Dajuan Blair going #11, well before we pick. And here I was thinking this guy was no good. Of course, these are the same guys that had Marvin Williams at #2. Heh….
Big Ray
May 30th, 2009
12:04 pm
Well said, Najeh.
cp
May 30th, 2009
12:05 pm
Tyler Hansbrough is a nice player but how is he better than Marin Williams? In all honestly it was because of Ty Lawson that North Carolina was so good. When Tyler had to defend the more athletic fowards he was torched. He will be a nice player but I would pass on him if I were the Hawks. I dont think Blair falls to 19 but I cant lie his height is a concern . He is a lot shorter than I thougth he would be. I think he measured out to be like 6′6. Im sorry but I just dont see him being as effective as he was in college. He might end up being another Ike Diago…. Its a few players im looking at for our pick. Terrance Williams, Sam Young, and Austin Daye.
Astro Joe
May 30th, 2009
12:05 pm
Well, I’ve been on the Blair band wagon for a while. And it is all relative. I wouldn’t suggest him if we had a top 10 pick, but we don’t. Getting a rebounding machine who can increase offensive possessions makes all the sense to me. Sure, a true center would be great. In the absence of that, find someone who brings some of the qualities of a true center. Like being a reounding fiend and being able to uproot guys out of their comfort zone in the low post. Oh and if he has a nasty temperment, all the better. Because our team is full of finesse players (including our front court). We could use a Danny Fortson type brute on this sqaud.
Big Ray
May 30th, 2009
12:05 pm
As it is, both Mullens and Blair are as likely to go higher than #19 as not. So we may get to argue about something else entirely. I’m in favor of a guard at this point….
niremetal
May 30th, 2009
12:11 pm
Melvin,
Here’s what Coon says on the tax calculation date:
When determining the amount of tax a team owes, the league uses its team salary (see question number 14) on the date of their last regular season game (i.e., if a player is traded away before the end of the season, then none of his salary is taxed), with the following adjustments:
I’ll spare you the list, but none of the adjustments include letting a free agent go at the end of the year.
Najeh,
I wasn’t advocating taking Mullens. I was thinking more about taking a point guard or a legit 2-guard to back up JJ (i.e. not a combo guard like Flip). I used to think about Mullens, but it’s pretty clear at this point that he’s going higher than 19. In any case, the point was that there was no chance Blair would be anything more than a little-used player here in Atlanta as long as we have both Smoove and Horford. I will say that at least with Mullens, there’s a chance he’d be starter for us 2-3 years from now. There’s no such chance with Blair unless we reconstruct the team.
Big Ray
May 30th, 2009
12:13 pm
CP,
I see Hansbrough as a totally different player than Marvin. Marvin is more finesse, Hansbrough is better built for the back-to-the-basket power game (and he’s still not the NBA prototype for THAT). Marvin=starter. Hansbrough=NOT. He’d be good to bring off the bench. But then, I also think Othello Hunter has some good potential.
Astro Joe,
I initially wasn’t too hip to the idea of getting Blair. Let’s just cut to the chase and say that I was all kinds of wrong about that. This guy really gets after it, and I had to re-watch some footage of him, just to see it. Sheldon Williams this ain’t. One thing a rookie needs to have with a coach like Woody (or many other NBA coaches): self-made confidence. Sheldon didn’t have that. Blair has it in spades. I read some of the interviews he had. I like this kid.
I imagine we will not go for a guard in the first round of this draft, choosing to go NBA vet (whether young or not so young) at the pg position. There are some I like in this draft, but that’s besides the point. Blair is not a bad pick at #19.
Also, I agree for the most part about the finesse in our frontcourt. My only exceptions would be Zaza and Horford. Horford’s a pretty tough customer when he’s healthy. Zaza just about has no choice, LOL! If he’s not rugged, he’s nothing.
niremetal
May 30th, 2009
12:15 pm
Ray,
Not positive, but I’m pretty sure that the DraftExpress board is based on their evaluations of who the “best players” are, not an actual projection of who will go where. Because it perfectly tracks their “best players available by year and position” rankings.
Big Ray
May 30th, 2009
12:21 pm
KevinA,
Childress was a glue guy. Don’t run a play for him, and he still gives you the same number of points per game that Flip does. Flip’s the one who has a license to shoot…
Childress is easily a better defender/rebounder than Mo Evans. Watching Mo, I don’t think he fits so well here. The guy is a fairly chiseled 6′5″ 220 lbs, but small forward is a bit of a stretch for him. Childress is 6′8″ with a good wingspan, and he’s smarter. Not only that, but remember who handled the ball up and down the court, coming off the bench back when we didn’t have Flip (we had AJ and Lue)? Exactly: Childress. He played the 1 (sort of, as primary ball-handler), 2, and 3 (on occasion, the 4 in a small lineup) and provided energy where we needed it most: on the boards, and on defense. All the while, shooting 52% from the field, and not needing the ball in his hands to make plays.
Now we can yap all we want about getting Mo and Flip for less money total. But when you have to get two guys for the loss of one (okay, what’s coming is purely opinionated perspective) then that should tell you something.
Funny thing is, we still lacked the hustle, energy, and “glue.” And Flip is a UFA. And I was NOT impressed with Evans’ defense.
Big Ray
May 30th, 2009
12:27 pm
“In any case, I have no problem taking Blair with our second round pick, which is where Millsap was taken. But he won’t get any PT on the Hawks with our bevy of forwards, and I doubt he’ll end up being much of anything in the NBA.”
“Not positive, but I’m pretty sure that the DraftExpress board is based on their evaluations of who the “best players” are, not an actual projection of who will go where. Because it perfectly tracks their “best players available by year and position” rankings.”
Well, they have Blair listed at #11. I reckon you don’t agree with that assessment…
niremetal
May 30th, 2009
12:38 pm
Yeah. I just don’t get it. The only 6′7/6′8 wrecking ball type who has ever become a regular starter in the past 10 years is Ben Wallace. You’re much more likely to end up with a Shelden or Reggie Evans than a Wallace or even a Millsap or Big Baby. He’s not the type of guy you take in the lottery, or anywhere in the first round, unless you have a specific need at PF. For us, PF is the only position where we don’t have ANY real need. So spending our first round pick on that position would be odd.
Blair may well go higher to a team that – like us in 2006 – desperately needs a defensive/rebounding minded PF or C (remember that back then, more people thought Smoove would turn out to be a SF, not a PF). But if we take Blair, I have visions of people doing a 180 in January when he’s playing just 8 minutes a game and putting up pedestrian numbers even when he’s in. Because players of his height, frame, and lack of athleticism/offensive fluidity rarely become more than bit players.
niremetal
May 30th, 2009
12:45 pm
PS – of the guys I mentioned (Wallace, Big Baby, Millsap, Evans, Shelden), Shelden was the ONLY one taken in the first round. And we already have an undrafted, undersized PF bruiser type (Othello Hunter). Just sayin.
tony
May 30th, 2009
12:57 pm
Big Ray, you will be eating crow next season. Mark My Word.
niremetal
May 30th, 2009
12:59 pm
And lastly, just want to say that it’s NOT that I don’t like guys like Blair. I love bruisers who play with heart. But that doesn’t mean I think the Hawks should use their first-round pick on one when we already have a glut of 6′7-6′10 rotation players…
Sautee
May 30th, 2009
1:20 pm
Nire,
Are you purposely ignoring my question?
Big Ray
May 30th, 2009
1:24 pm
Outside of a guard, I wasn’t seeing us getting a starter at #19, whether it’s this year or 2 to 3 years from now. Mullens is a serious risk/reward guy. I feel like with him you have two major risks: whether or not he actually develops that talent/potential, and whether or not we have the right place and system to help him do so.
But then, that’s a risk with any player you take. I think Mullens presents more of a risk in some ways.
Even with a pg or sg, we won’t get a starter out of this draft at that pick unless 1)We fail miserably in free agency/trade as far as keeping or acquiring a pg, or 2) Some serious injuries occur with the guys we DO manage to end up with at the pg and sg spots. Either way probably doesn’t bode well for us, but it could pay off in the long run. I suppose…
Big Ray
May 30th, 2009
1:34 pm
Niremetal,
I’d rather take a good guard than Blair, but even then, I’m not ENTIRELY sure which guy that would be. And that’s no knock on Blair, just a position I think needs more attention.
I understand that we don’t have a huge need at PF. But I’m also not looking at a starter with that pick, unless it’s a guard. Now if Blair falls to #19, I figure all the guards worth picking that “high” are gone. So, I’d be okay with a guy whom I believe has what it takes to get more minutes than you say he will. I guess that’s where we disagree. Let’s say Zaza doesn’t re-sign, or isn’t in the plans for the future. Who does our rebounding off the bench? This guy ain’t Solo. Solo long, lean, athletic, and continuously gets pushed out of the paint. Love him, but he’s not a rugged type.
You shouldn’t insult Reggie Evans by putting him in the same sentence as Sheldon.
Here is a point of interest: if you don’t see a need at PF, then you must be happy with Josh Smith at that position, seeing as how that’s where he plays….;)