Wanted: Role Players!
Frontcourt help like Charlie Villanueva could make a huge difference for the Hawks in the future.
HAWKSVILLE – I know that the NBA hype machine would have you believe that the NBA playoffs is basically a test of wills between Kobe Bryant and LeBron James.
If you let the networks tell it, we’re all just bearing witness to the crowning of the king or the validation of KB24’s reign as the heir to his Airness.
Count Magic superstar center and Atlanta native Dwight Howard among those who have heard just about enough. And the AJC’s own Jeff Schultz isn’t far behind Howard in the enough is enough line.
The only problem with all the Kobe/LeBron fuss is that arguably the two most critical guys on the floor thus far in these outstanding Eastern and Western Conference finals have been Lakers’ swingman Trevor Ariza and Orlando Magic super sub Mickael Pietrus.
As well Bryant, James, Howard, Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Pau Gasol, Rashard Lewis, Hedo Turkoglu and all the other major players have played during certain stretches, Ariza and Pietrus have been just as, if not more important to their team’s efforts.
Ariza’s made two game-clinching plays to seal wins for the Lakers, both defensive gems on inbounds plays. And Pietrus has not only been a lights out shooter against the Cavs, he’s played James as well defensively as any player I’ve seen in the last three seasons – and that includes defensive stalwarts Ron Artest and Bruce Bowen.
Now I’ll admit that my theory could be the product of viewing way too much playoff basketball the past month and counting, or an excessive amount of fumes to the dome from a long weekend spent over the top of my grill. But it seems like the contributions of these two role players will have as much to do with who plays in the NBA Finals as any singular effort from a superstar for any of the four teams remaining in this postseason.
Which brings me to our favorite topic ‘round these parts … the Hawks and their roster in need of major surgery this summer (more on that below).
Folks keep telling me about who needs to go to make this team better. And I keep thinking about what they need to add to this group to get better.
The Hawks need guys like Ariza and Pietrus to complete what they started with last year’s playoff appearance and continued this season with their Eastern Conference semifinal appearance.
Flip Murray and Mo Evans qualify, as does Zaza Pachulia. But of the three, only Evans is guaranteed to be in a Hawks uniform in the fall. Not only do the Hawks need to find ways to keep Murray and Pachulia in the fold, they need to find more guys like them (or better).
That’s where the Hawks greatest improvement will come next season (save a blockbuster trade), in the sum of their parts. And those parts have to improve down the roster.
Can you imagine the Hawks with an explosive scoring power forward like Charlie Villanueva (a restricted free agent this summer with a bit of a Twitter habit) or Chris Wilcox (another free agent this summer) coming off of their bench? And not as a replacement for Pachulia but as a running mate. That’s the kind of addition that helps recast the Hawks for next season.
If you’re serious about keeping the core together and still improving your roster, which is the theme we’ve heard from the Hawks non-stop since they were swept out of the playoffs.
DRAFT CHATTER is the favorite topic of many this time of year, and for good reason.
Draftniks everywhere have man-crushes on Spanish sensation Ricky Rubio ...
Spanish point guard phenom Ricky Rubio is the guy generating the most attention in the draft, for reasons good and apparently bad, per some folks.
The fine folks at TrueHoop did a bang up job detailing the luster and the risk of a player like Rubio, who is universally regarded as the best point guard “prospect” to come out of Europe in some time, and perhaps ever.
My most trusted source on all things Rubio is Lang Whitaker of SLAM Magazine, who has been on the Rubio bandwagon for years now. He’s the first person I can remember having seen Rubio play in person. And as best I can remember, he was the first writer to travel to Spain to interview and write about Rubio. So I’m going on his word that Rubio is going to be a star in the NBA.
“He is,” Whitaker said by phone Tuesday morning from his New York office. “The thing with Rubio is … did you see the gold medal game? He played great against Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Jason Kidd. I don’t know who else you want to see him against to convince you that he’s going to be a star.”
Lang doesn’t have to convince me. I’m willing to play along with the international charade as long as the player is as talented as Rubio (and I did watch the gold medal game. Rubio made some nice plays but he wasn’t what stood out to me).
But not everyone I’ve talked to is convinced.
“I’d much rather have Derrick Rose,” one Eastern Conference executive told me by phone Tuesday morning. “And it’s not even close in my eyes. Don’t get me wrong, Rubio is talented. He might have tons of potential. But seriously, how many times have we said that about one of these young kids and then he gets over here and we find out there are all these things about his game that just don’t add up in the NBA? That’s what worries me about Rubio. We’ve seen glimpses of him against NBA competition. It’s just like when you watch Rudy Fernandez and Linas Kleiza look unstoppable in international play and then they get to the NBA season and you realize it’s a totally different game. Rubio is going to find the same issues where his game is concerned.”
How that’s different from any other college player/prospect is beyond me. I mean, who knew Rose would be so good from the start? Actually, lots of people expected it. In fact, that’s what led the draft debate last year between Rose and Michael Beasley. There doesn’t seem to be the same sort of debate between the point guard and power forward this year (I’ve heard very few people discuss let alone advocate taking Rubio over Blake Griffin).
... while others wonder if he's even in the same class as a transcendent talent like Chicago's own Derrick Rose.
“A much better gauge is a guy who has dominated in Europe and then comes over here at the top of his game, like Pau Gasol did, like Manu Ginobili did and Luis Scola did,” the Eastern Conference exec continued.” They showed up ready to play because they weren’t just prospects, they were established players and really stars over there. The bottom line is this, the way you develop young players here and in Europe is vastly different. And it doesn’t always work best for young international players over here.”
An unabashed Hawks fan, Lang barked at me over a week ago about what he wants to see his hometown team do with the 19th pick in the June draft.
His email from last week:
Rick Sund’s last three first round picks? Robert Swift, Saer Sene and Johan Petro.
I really hope the Hawks draft Toney Douglas from FSU. We need to get his name out there. Dude can shoot, drives all the time, can play the 1 and 2 and was ACC defensive player of the year. And he’s from Jonesboro. I don’t understand why more people aren’t talking about him. Coach K said this at the ACC Tournament: ”He’s my favorite non-Duke player in the country. I love that guy. I talk about him a lot to our guys. They’re probably mad at me. He’s as good as there is in college.”
THE HAWKS AREN’T THE ONLY TEAM IN THE SOUTHEAST DIVISION stuck in point guard limbo with the draft and free agency fast approaching. The team the Hawks vanquished in the first round of the playoffs is in a similar predicament, though the Miami Heat already have one proven building block in Mario Chalmers.
My main man Mike Wallace of the Miami Herald points out as much in his latest blog, shouting out Hawks point guards past and present in the process:
And it makes you wonder. Why does every other team in the league seem to have a spare Flip Murray on the roster, yet the Heat goes two seasons without one? Shaun Livingston didn’t have the legs. Marcus Banks lacked the skills. And Penny Hardaway – dare we say – didn’t have anything left other than pleasant memories of when he used to be somebody in this league.
This Magic-Cavs series is stocked with serviceable, stop-gap type veteran parts at the point that Miami either tried to get and couldn’t, parted with too soon or probably should have pursued harder when it had the chance.
Orlando has three of them: Rafer Alston, Anthony Johnson and Tyronn Lue.
How crazy would it be to see the Magic make the NBA Finals with two point guards (Johnson and Lue for those of you who have just recently joined us here in Hawksville) the Hawks shipped out of town to get Mike Bibby on their roster?
Might Jonesboro's Toney Douglas be an option for the Hawks with the 19th pick in the June NBA Draft? It's an intriguing idea, courtesy of Lang Whitaker of SLAM Magazine.
And depending on what happens in July, Bibby could be joining them as ex-Hawks point guards.
The Hawks, of course, are in need of a starting material at the point. And that might come in the form of Bibby, if the Hawks can find a way to reel him back in from the free agent waters with the right deal, or someone else.
Speaking of Bibby, the good folks at Hawksquawk, threw some great questions my way about the team and where things might be headed. And as you can probably imagine, Bibby’s name came up several times.
We’ve discussed Bibby endlessly around here, so won’t go into detail about the tenor of the conversation they are having about him elsewhere. But I’ll share this one question and answer (and suggest you check out the rest of it on their site (which is pretty impressive, by the way):
Q. Was there a change in the locker-room demeanor since the addition of Bibby? Did he bring a playoff presence to the Hawks team? Is there any urgency (or perceived urgency) to resign Flip?
A. Bibby assumed a leadership position automatically, which is what the Hawks needed. He eased the pressure on Joe and Woodson as well, which needed to happen. And more than a playoff presence he brought a sense of accountability to the locker room, which was lacking before his arrival. He was the right personality and player at just the right time for the Hawks. It was almost like he added that “why not us?” factor to this team that wasn’t there before, a sense of they could do some things with him that didn’t really seem possible until he showed up. Flip proved invaluable this season and while I wouldn’t call it urgency, there’s certainly a need to make sure Flip is kept in the fold.
WITH SO MANY ROSTER QUESTIONS TO DEAL WITH THIS SUMMER it’s hard for me to imagine the Hawks’ brass taking too many days off between now and late July.
I know they’ve begun their predraft workouts, which unlike in years past are not open to the media. And the scaled down predraft camp has moved back to Chicago from Orlando this summer. It begins this week and runs into this weekend.
As far as the Hawks’ individual workouts, I’m not sure there will be much to talk about anyway. Astro Joe emailed a little while ago wondering if they’d begun and whether or not I’d seen anything worth talking about. I promptly relayed the story to him of Al Horford’s workout two years ago that left quite a few people scratching their heads as to what all the fuss was about.
Billy Knight went 1-for-2 (so far) in the first round of his last draft with the Hawks.
Had the Hawks based their pick in that year’s draft on the workout alone, Horford might not have been the choice (luckily for us all Billy Knight stuck to his “gimme the best power forward type I can get at this spot” guns and made the right call).
Different teams value different things in the predraft process. Some want to see what a guy looks like on the hoof or how he tests out in various drills that have little or nothing to do with why you’d want a guy on your team.
Others want to see if he interviews a certain way, wanting to make sure they’re adding the right type of guy to their team. Me, I need to know a guy can play. And I’m positive I can tell more from watching him play in games than I can from anything he’ll do in a scripted workout.
But that doesn’t mean I won’t relay what I’m hearing leading up to the draft. After all, this is easily one of the Hawks’ most critical summers in a string of huge ones. What they do in the draft and free agency basically determines if they’re going to stay among the upper echelon of the Eastern Conference or slide back down to the playoff purgatory waters that they bathed in for years.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
657 comments Add your comment
OUTLAW30079
June 1st, 2009
1:40 am
Can we plz get jamal crawford and charlie v he is better than williams if zaza go {which he will everyone have seen him playing hard} bring da man they draft a couple years ago and let stay across da water and for a top off PLZ GO GET ANDRA MILLER
Big Ray
June 1st, 2009
7:46 am
O’brien,
I like the idea of getting Villanueva as well. It would be nice to re-sign Flip, and getting Villanueva means we don’t have to rely on Flip as the sole source of points off the bench. That’s precisely how we ended up running starters into the ground.
Ken Strickland,
I agree that Sund needs to make some good moves. I think we’re still stuck in a “which came first: the chicken or the egg” scenario. On the one hand, what GOOD, bold moves can we expect to Sund to be ABLE to make? On the other hand, we have Woody saying things like “I have to push the right buttons.”
I don’t think he knows just how right he is. Bold moves or not, the team has to find some consistency. Some insist on keeping the core intact. A nice idea, if we can figure out how to make better use of what we have. If not, then a very bold move is necessary, but does that really change anything besides talent level? Could go on and on about this for days, but you already know the deal. We can’t just make bold moves. We have to make adjustments to what we’re doing now. Involving the frontcourt more (and again, consistently) is a good place to start.
Again, it’s two-fold. Woodson has to employ such a strategy (and not give up on it after 3-5 games), and the frontcourt players have to get their games in gear, or it won’t work.
ILL-logical
June 1st, 2009
8:27 am
Mr. Strickland has hit the nail squarely on the head: Sund is merely a bookmark and the ownership group ,headed by Mr. Gearon, bears the bulk of the responsiblity for the current state of affairs.
All of the speculation, and in some cases another word that describes auto eroticism, on this board often ignores the basic fact that this group obtained the franchise under circumstances that resulted in a legal finding against them; have continously lost money while cutting costs in critical areas such as marketing ,all while maintaing a media (ajc) aided profile of competance.
Are they bad people? Don’t know and don’t care ,but what I do care about is the only ATL pro franchise that has gone to the playoffs 2 consecutive years and promises even better to come, looks to me like as if they are not going to build on that success to reach what my ultimate goal is : a championship!
Astro Joe
June 1st, 2009
9:50 am
“bears the bulk of the responsibility for the current state of affairs”. Did something happen, are we back in the lottery? I know that I vegged out over the weekend, but darn, did I miss the ‘09-10 season? Last I recall, we finished 4th in the regular season and 4th in the playoffs and were one of only 8 teams in the NBA to advance to the second round.
FAMhawk
June 1st, 2009
10:15 am
“I know that I vegged out over the weekend, but darn, did I miss the ‘09-10 season? Last I recall, we finished 4th in the regular season and 4th in the playoffs and were one of only 8 teams in the NBA to advance to the second round”
IS THIS THE SAME GUY WHO SAID EVERYBODY SHOULD ENJOY THIS SEASON AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE THERE WAS NO REASON AT ALL TO BELIEVE THAT THE HAWKS WOULD HAVE AS SUCCESSFUL A SEASON THE NEXT YEAR? WHICH IS IT GOING TO BE. LIVE IN THE PAST OR IGNORE THE FUTURE?
bigdave
June 1st, 2009
10:23 am
“if someone just beat you up, you don’t congratulate them on beating you up; it just don’t make sense”
- Lebron James
O'brien
June 1st, 2009
10:40 am
We have seen Dwight Howard talk about Patrick Ewing and his coaching. Andrew Bynum gets to work with Kareem. I have a hard time seeing Josh and Al giving Tyrone Hill props for working with them.
I hope Woody comes back with a new wrinkle in the offense, because good teams in the league know all there is to know about iso JJ (even iso Lebron didnt work against the Magic). Plus it forces JJ to work too hard. And the best way to do that is to change up the coaching staff. Bring in a guy who knows offense. On that note, I wish we had an assistant coach who had some head coaching experience, but I dont know if that’s something Woody would go for.
Astro Joe
June 1st, 2009
10:59 am
FAMHAWK, live in the now. So until the champion is crowned, the ‘08-’09 season still marches on. And I also said that I don’t blame any business owner for looking at ways to reduce business expenses in this economy. Sorry, if I choose to believe that the same conditions that are affecting General Motors, Wachovia and the seafood restaurant that lasted 15 months after rave reviews in my neighborhood will likewise impact the Highlight Factory. I won’t blame the Hawks ownership group if they’re not recession proof.
Astro Joe
June 1st, 2009
11:10 am
O’brien, Woody works directly with Smith, Horford, Acie, Marvin and each and every player on the team. He doesn’t need no stinkin’ assistants (tongue in cheek remark for some regulars on the blog).
I agree, I wish we had an ex-head coach on the staff, also. Along with a big man coach who actually scored more than 15 points in an NBA game. I was really impressed with Del Negro’s first staff that included Del Harris (who is retiring after 50 years of coaching) and Bickerstaff. I doubt that Woody would ever look to add someone like Paul Westphal or Mo Cheeks, but that sure would be helpful for all involved. And without a doubt, I’d LOVE to see my man Antoine Carr teaching our bigs how to defend the low post AND knock down turn-around jumpers on the block. Even Anonio Davis would be a huge upgrade over Ty Hill.
Melvin
June 1st, 2009
11:12 am
Is Mickael Pietrus who we thought we were getting in Mo Evans? 2/3 guy that could hit the 3 and defend the other team best wing player??? Mo is overrated and I see why the Magic let him go. Sund overpaid for his services by giving him a 3yr contract. That third year should have been a team option. However, I’ll give Mo credit. He’s tough as nails. Now lets bring back the Afro man and get rid of Speedy and Mo (if needed)….
Melvin
June 1st, 2009
11:16 am
Astro,
If we bring in Mo Cheeks, he better have HC as his title…
jhan
June 1st, 2009
11:28 am
Ill wrote – “looks to me like as if they are not going to build on that success to reach what my ultimate goal is : a championship!”
What would you like them to do right now exactly?
No free agent signings allowed until July. No other team would make a trade right now either.
Just asking.
yetta
June 1st, 2009
11:33 am
THIS IS kOBE’S YEAR; NBA DOES NOT WANT A KOBE WIN OVER LEBRON OR VICE VERSA RIGHT NOW. LEBRON IS IN THEIR FUTURE PLANS FOR GREATNESS. IT WAS NOT IN THE CARDS FOR A KOBE/LEBRON IN THE FINALS FOR THIS YEAR. LEBRON WILL HAVE HIS CHANCE IN THE FUTURE. IT’S ALL PLANNED.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 1st, 2009
11:50 am
“Finally, Soloman Jones , with an extra 20 lbs, may be the short term answer to Who is at the 5.”
Solo supposedly added 20 pounds last year, and it got him nowhere. You can be as big as you want, but if you don’t have the mindset to bang inside it’s not going to matter.
On another note, I guess I’m the only person disappointed that the Cavs lost? Maybe I should learn my lesson and give the Magic credit at some point, but… nah. Lakers in 5, as much as I think they don’t deserve to win the title.
Oh yeah, Vitamin Water Marketing Department, did you forget you still have 50 Cent?
Najeh Davenpoop
June 1st, 2009
11:51 am
I don’t have a problem with LeBron not talking to reporters post-game, but it doesn’t take a whole lot of effort to go give Dwight Howard a pound before leaving the floor.
Navid
June 1st, 2009
12:51 pm
I hate UNC more than any other school in the world BUT I wouldn’t mind the hawks taking Tyler Hansborugh with the first pick… Think about it..
C- Tyler
PF- Horford (his natural position)
SF- J. Smith or M. Williams (Personally id give it to Williams bc Smith takes too many shots)
SG- Johnson
PG- Re-sign Bibby
Mike is back
June 1st, 2009
1:29 pm
Najeh, I wouldn’t scoff at Solo like that…he could definitely become a legit shot blocker and rebounder as his game continues to evolve…his situation is very similar to Acie. Neither guy has had enough PT to get an adequate assessment of their overall skills.
Solo is just as young as the rest of these guys on the roster. He will make someone a good role player once he gets some consistent minutes…he has the right attitude…he’s got fire in his belly and he’s willing to put in work to improve his game…someone will give him a chance…same goes for Acie.
I.MUS WRITE- INTERNATIONAL MAN OF MYSTERY
June 1st, 2009
1:31 pm
This lebron thing is being blow way out of proportion……. The guy is yung -we all made mistakes at that age-I feel his pain tho, He was playing 1 on 5 the entire season….. on the flip side As the face of the league and arguably the best player , u have to suck it up and do the right thing…. He’ll be okay
Itz funny how some people think Lebron will lose some of his endorsements becuz of this, I thinkz not !!! Two name s for you Kobe Bryant/Ray Lewis………
Danny Ferry better morph into David Blane with the quickness- If they dont get sum peices this summer Yung Jsmes is sure to bolt for greener pastures for sure….
Intresting trade sum one mentioned: Marvin/Josh for Gay/Gasol/#2
Gay is alot better than Marvin, so it breaks down to a Josh for Gasol/Thabeet ……. Bibby,JJ,Gay,Horford,Thabeet
Bench: Flip,Chillz,Gasol,Solo,Toney Douglas,Hunter
Thats the making of sumthing special right thur providing we can find the right jockey to ride these therobredz
I.MUS WRITE- INTERNATIONAL MAN OF MYSTERY
June 1st, 2009
1:32 pm
I guess the third time is the charm…. Sekou get ur blog together- ” Meal after meal….Jeezuz
Astro Joe
June 1st, 2009
1:38 pm
Najeh, I have a problem with it. I believe that LeBron and Dwight are part of an exclusive club and as such, they should congratulate each other. It was not as if LeBron lost to Andre Iguodala or Joe Johnson or some other non-superstar. This was one of the top 5-6 ballers in the world with whom he just spent most of last summer. No, he didn’t need to seek out Pietrus, Rashard or Hedo. But he most definitely should have at least given Dwight Howard a fist-bump on his way off the floor.
jhan, our GMs (BK and now Sund) seem to get a beaten on these blogs because they don’t announce to the fan base their off-season plans. I’m sure it would be so much better if we pre-announce every transaction like the Braves did with Furcal, Peavy, Burnett and Griffey a few months ago.
Astro Joe
June 1st, 2009
1:40 pm
Najeh, my bad, I read your 11:51 am post incorrectly. I agree with you, okay to blow off reporters, not okay to blow off #12.
Mike is back
June 1st, 2009
2:06 pm
Najeh O Yeah, I’m with the majority that says it was classless for Lebron to duck and run instead OF facing the victors like a man. If HE WERE a true competitor…HE WOULD HAVE acknowledged the effort of his opponent. It hard to believe you would slight a guy that was your teammate when you won a gold medal representing your country in the Olympic …it just don’t sound right…CONGRATULATE the man and move on!!!!!
Now people can stop with all the silly comparison to MJ. I love watching Lebron play…he is a phenomenal athlete…but there is always a danger when you receive too much too soon. Until he earns a couple rings…people need to let Lebron be Lebron…and quit blowing so much sunshine up his asssssss!!!!
Having said…TO HIS CREDIT…LBJ did all one person could humanly do to get the Cavs to the finals…that’s what disappointing the most…the fact that all that effort and energy was tarnished by his lack of professionalism and maturity.
NOW CAN MY HOME BOY JOSH GET SOME LOVE…AT LEASE HE DIDN’T DUCK AND RUN!!!!heh heh
Volman
June 1st, 2009
2:40 pm
Could the Hawks have won a game or two against the Cavs if they weren’t looking to get LeBron’s autograph?
Just playing, but looking back at this Magic series…I saw something that I did not see in the Pistons or Hawks series:
The Cavs’ roleplayers were a nonentity. Against the Hawks Wally was flying around taking charges and hitting three’s… Delonte West was posting up Bibby as well as knocking down big threes and Mo Williams was hitting from outside (at will)… Don’t forget big Z… he had his way with the Hawks’ frontcourt.
We all know now that the Magic are a better TEAM than the Hawks, but does ANYBODY think the Cavs ran out of gas or hit a cold streak? They were confident and ON FIRE against the Pistons and Hawks, but seemed to not be the same team against Orlando. I am SURE the Hawks would have liked to see some poor shooting performances from West, Big Z, and guys like Williams and Wally.
Look at Big Z’s stats from game 6…pretty terrible if you ask me.
I don’t know..just thinking!
Mike is back
June 1st, 2009
2:41 pm
Najeh, ditto for me too on the comment about LBJ. However, when you are the face of the NBA…you have to be man enough to take the bad with the good. It wouldn’t have hurt to say a couple of words to the media either.
G-Man
June 1st, 2009
2:56 pm
Navid,
What would make you think that Tyler Hansbrough could play the center position? Although the draft combine measurements showed that Tyler Hansbrough is the same size as Blake Giffin, we are already undersized at the center position, and Tyler Hansbrough doesn’t have great athleticism. I would take Al Horford at the five any day over Tyler Hansbrough. By the way, I heard that Samuel Dalembert is demanding to be traded. How does this lineup look:
C-Samuel Dalembert
PF-Al Horford
SF-Josh Smith(in hopes he develops a shot)
SG-Joe Johnson
PG-Mike Bibby
C-Solo
PF-Charlie Villanueva
SF-Marvin
SG-Flip
PG-Acie(or whatever pg we draft
terrell barron
June 1st, 2009
3:11 pm
1.Trade Mo and Randolph Morris for a box of chocolates.
2.Let Zaza walk,
3.Sign Bibby, Flip, Sheed, and Ariza to 2 yr deals.
Starters: Bibby/JJ/Ariza/Smith/Sheed
Bench: Acie/Flip/Marvin/Horford/Solo
Might as well make a run for the title.
Big Ray
June 1st, 2009
3:19 pm
O’brien,
Agreed. We need new wrinkles in the offense. As for hiring someone to come in and work with our bigs….I’ll refer to Sund, who had an interesting reply when asked if he thought they should employ an “offensive coordinator” on the coaching staff. Sund said that sort of thing was up to Woody. Hmmmmmm.
Astro Joe,
I see Sund getting ripped for announcing the resigning of both Joshes as the top priority last year, then not getting it done. We can argue and speculate the hell out of how one signing got done, and the other didn’t, and I’d really rather not. But I don’t recall him being ripped for not saying what he’s going to do.
On top of that, he hasn’t given your boy Woody an extension yet. Strange, THAT got to print, didn’t it?
And don’t forget that Sund said that any hiring of anybody on the coaching staff is up to the head coach. Either he’s throwing your boy under the bus, or he’s simply laying out the way he thinks things should work. Either way, it took a long time to get Mark Price in here, and we still have no big man coach. Of course, Billy Knight was here longer than Sund has been, and maybe HE didn’t allow the signing of such a person. Who knows.
I think that’s an interesting pile of facts, speculation, and quotes. But I’m sure none of it is in any way related…
Big Ray
June 1st, 2009
3:19 pm
Terrell Barron,
Who gets to eat the chocolates?
Big Ray
June 1st, 2009
3:25 pm
Volman,
We don’t have role players, because we don’t even have guys who know their roles. Draw your own conclusions on that one.
But role players who KNOW and PLAY their roles is the difference between a decent team and a very good team. And when it comes to the playoffs, how one coach/team is able to pit it’s role players against those of the opposing team is often the difference in the game. You said it yourself, against us and the Pistons, the Cavs’ role players were rather effective. Against the Magic, they struggled immensely.
Even though he scored more, was Lebron more effective for the Cavs in this series than Dwight was for the Magic? Whose role players stepped up higher/better? Was it that the Magic had better role players? Did Van Gundy get more out of or more properly utilize his “supporting cast” than Brown did?
Or….you could just oversimplify it and say that all teams have warts, and the Magic just had less warts than the Cavs did.
Heh.
Big Ray
June 1st, 2009
3:28 pm
Mike Is Back,
It’s funny, isn’t it? Some people were ready to hand over everything to Lebron and swear off all NBA championships until he’s no longer in his prime. Gosh, I guess now teams will have to realize that he can’t beat them all by himself, and that there IS a chance to win against the Cavs.
Gosh darn it! Now settling for just making the playoffs for the next few years is suddenly not such a good alibi (for not trying to be better) after all!
Astro Joe
June 1st, 2009
3:33 pm
Ty Hill is the big man coach, right? (Did I miss something?) Price is a consultant, I never quite understood the difference. Maybe the GM hires the consultants? See jhan’s 11:28 post for context of my comments about the silence from the executive offices (this year not during the Josh stuff). And you may recall, someone got all excited about the Milwaukee GM’s statements. Maybe I’m the only who is reading the posts on here asking for more transparency from Sund prior to draft day.
Woody’s extension (or not) was bound to get to print. With regard to the head coach, those decisions are not time-bound by NBA rules. So the only question that could have been answered immediately following the Cavs series was regarding the status of Woody. And if memory serves me, it was Woody who disclosed the “non-extension” story.
Personally, I want my GM to be quiet. I also recall BK being ripped for announcing the Shelden “promise” several qweeks before the draft. Even before dude played 1 game and disclosed his “bustness”, folk were ticked off that he pre-announced and weakened any possible trade considerations. I love the rumor mill and love to read that stuff. But I prefer to read about other teams. I want my GM to keep his plans on the low-low.
G-Man
June 1st, 2009
3:38 pm
How would yall feel about trading up to snag Johnny Flynn? There is something about his winning attitude, speed, power, and leadership abilities that I think would greatly improve our team.
O'brien
June 1st, 2009
4:23 pm
We also have a starter that does not play his role consistently enough. I’m talking about Josh. His role is to stay on the low block and operate inside. Another role is to give up the ball to the PG on the break. Why is it so hard for him to play within his limits?
Mo Evans was supposed to be our defensive stopper off the bench (like Pietrus), but he did not do so well. And our switching defense has not been effective against good teams. Can somebody explain why Woody insists on playing a switching defense?
Speaking of Woody, I hope he learned something from the Magic. Play inside out sometimes. I think if Josh/Al got more touches in the post, they would be more effective, and they would get easy shots for Bibby and JJ on the perimeter.
RealSquawk
June 1st, 2009
5:03 pm
BIG RAY,
WELL SAID SIR, WELL WELL SAID!!
Mike is back
June 1st, 2009
5:26 pm
Big Ray, I think Koby would agree too. It was obvious all the chatter about Lebron was starting to agitate him a little. In fairness to Lebron…MJ couldn’t do by himself either…LBJ will be okay…Ferry is probably the one not getting much sleep.lol!!!
And Yeah, I seen you slide in a shameless plug for Woody and Sund with your reference to MAKING THE PLAYOFF!!!!
I GUESS Woody can take some solace in the fact that Mike Brown had the best record in the NBA and won COY running that same type of Iso offense…however, given the outcome of the Eastern Conference Final…If was Woody…I wouldn’t brake my arm trying to pat myself on the back. Heh heh.
Ken Strickland
June 1st, 2009
5:51 pm
A lot of people criticized JHoward for calling out his HC for allowing the players controlling the ball to consistently shoot jumpshots instead of taking advantage of their strength and going inside. Well, it worked, because the Magic defeated the Cavaliers because they did a much better job of using their strengths to exploit their weaknesses.
THAT’S THE MAIN COMPLAINT I’VE HAD WITH WOODSON. HE’S STUBBORNLY REFUSED TO CONSISTENTLY USE OUR STRENGTHS(speed, quickness, youth, stamina, athleticism) TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE OPPOSITIONS WEAKNESSES. When we encounter a team or teams that can match our speed. quickness and athleticism, they almost certainly can’t matchup to us physically. That’s when we should take advantage of our size and strength and pound them inside. If they can match of exceed our size and strength, they almost certainly can’t matchup to our speed, quickness and/or athleticism.
WW HAVE GOT TO STOP WITH THIS OLD SCHOOL MENTALITY. We are no longer in the era of the old Celtics, Lakers, Knicks, 76ers etc, where you can just run 6 or 7 players out and ignore your bench, or limit your rotation during the regular season and the playoffs.
Our last draft was the 1st one in which the Hawks have not been in the lottery since Woodson’s been the HC. If MWilliams, ALaw, SJones and AHorford aren’t resigned to extensions, JSmith could conceivably end up as the only draft pick we’ll have left to show for all of those yrs of frutility.
Big Ray
June 1st, 2009
6:02 pm
Yeah, Ty Hill is the big man coach. Wow, what a job he’s done with our bigs, eh?
Oh wait. I forgot. They didn’t play with energy, and probably ignored all the great advice he gave them.
I thought Price was a “shooting coach” when certain people were conveniently ripping him for players not hitting their free throws (uh, like Josh Smith). Hmmm, I guess the title is a matter of convenience…
Yep, it was Woody who disclosed the “non-extension” comments. The same Woody who admantly declares that he is NOT worried about his job status, while some people adamantly proclaim that he is coaching scared, without job security.
I wonder, is Woody a liar, or has evolution allowed some people to develop vocal chords in their anal regions? I’ve heard of stranger things…
I could give a rat’s butt if Sund makes his plans known or not, as long as they are good plans that he is able to deliver on.
I seem to recall saying that I appreciate Sund’s clever evasiveness in not revealing much during the Q&A with Mark Bradley. Hell, I ardently defended it, and compared it to the open frankness of Milwaukee GM John Hammond. Spent several paragraphs on it. Guess that got missed (tongue FIRMLY in cheek)…
Big Ray
June 1st, 2009
6:14 pm
RealSquawk,
Thank you, sir!
O’brien,
I guess there’s two schools of thought on Josh not playing his role.
One is that Josh has trouble focusing on what he’s supposed to be doing. His role is not clearly defined at all times. He’s not as mature as he should be (ok, an understatement). He has not worked on the parts of his game that he should be working on (his own fault), but also does not get the ball where he should be getting it, often enough. He relies too much on his athleticism, and tries to push things too often, just to make something happen. Two things: he provides much of what some seem to think is all that is necessary to win (energy)….and I seem to recall a certain point guard telling a certain head coach that if he didn’t want him shooting jumpers from that far out, maybe he should run the play with him in a different spot.
Of course, if you adhere to the second school of thought (i.e., you’re practice giving mouth to arse with a life-size Woody doll), then you’re probably tired of me repeating that one incident (despite the fact that it is indicative of what has been happening for quite some time).
Yep. Now let’s wait for the straw…I mean sand…to start flying…
Big Ray
June 1st, 2009
6:15 pm
Mike,
MJ had to learn that he couldn’t do it by himself. Lebron has to learn the same, but he also has to get the necessary support to get the job done.
Big Ray
June 1st, 2009
6:25 pm
O’brien,
On the flip side of that coin, you really have to decide at some point if Josh fits here, or if there is a better fit. He’s got tons of potential STILL, but can he realize it? The only thing we really don’t want to do is send somebody like that packing, and become a WORSE team, not a better one, especially over the long run.
If it can be done (i.e., get a better fit for the team and get better in the process), then do it. If not, then re-define roles, get some more effective leadership in here, and work with it the best you can.
And you do that no matter who the coach is. Because getting better is the way to go, right?
I mean, holding serve is fine. Getting to the playoffs and staying roughly the same level for the next 5-8 years is all well and good. But it makes your coach look bad. He’d become a “historical postseason failure.” You know….like Avery Johnson, and guys like that….
Fitz15
June 1st, 2009
6:35 pm
Hawks need to deal J Smith and try to get Camby and Al Thorton the Hawks might have to throw in a player or pick but remember the Clips where hot after Smith last season. He would give the clips a nice young frontline with Griffin in the Draft. Then let Bibby walk and go after Andre Miller a solid PG who drives and dishes not a 30 ft jump shooter. Villenueva would be a nice add on as well. Sign Flip and Zaza and cross your fingers Lawson falls to you at 19 and he can learn from Miller.
Ca$h
June 1st, 2009
6:55 pm
Ken Strickland… every time someone criticizes Ordinary Joe they say he a is a three time all star (so what have that done 4 the hawks o yea last allstar game he had 0 points that wat u call a allstar lol)he is 2-for-18 in playoffs, But this is business and these are the facts: Joe has one year left on his contract. He just completed another sorry post-season,In last year’s playoffs, he went 1-for-7 against Boston. This is not what you want from a guy who’s supposed to be your best player, It’s certainly not what you want from a player who should be your leader but seldom acts like one. Or acts like he wants to be one. Joe the joke is one of those quiet guys who just wants to do his thing, whatever his thing is. But that’s not good enough here. 2 b the best you got 2 show it 4 example like Dwight Howard.. do the best thing and trade joe and Marvin Williams. give Josh time he get there plus he show that energy we need..
Melvin
June 1st, 2009
7:01 pm
“The Cavs supposedly will go hard for Shaq as they did in February. Is Shaq the answer to deal with the quicker Howard? There’s been the LeBron to New York stuff (James wore a Yankees hat Sunday when he finally talked to media) and lately LeBron paired with Yao, who can become a free agent after next season, because of that Chinese investor in the Cavs. Though any such benefit James would derive that way should be against the salary cap rules. I’ve heard James has been recruiting Joe Johnson for 2010. We’ll hear all kind of stuff.” – Bulls.com
Hmmm, looks like the King has summon Joe to be his Prince…
darrell starks
June 1st, 2009
7:01 pm
Ken your right i agree with you on every thing you said.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
June 1st, 2009
7:14 pm
Looking at the cavs and magic series its so obvious that you have to have a 1,2 punch like batman and robin the cavs have batman but no robin thats why i say evaluating the hawks we dont even have a batman so in what way can we make it to the championship first we dont need just any one we have to have a star player like a chris bosh who will a leader of the team and fit well with josh and joe.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
Melvin
June 1st, 2009
7:23 pm
Chris Bosh can’t even led his current team into the playoffs. So why do so many believe he would be the savior for the Hawks????????
O'brien
June 1st, 2009
7:42 pm
Melvin, Chris Bosh needs an allstar in the backcourt to take some pressure off. JJ in the backcourt and Bosh in the frontcourt would be much more effective, because Bosh is a lot more consistent than Josh.
Ray, my feeling on Josh is that as long as Woody is the coach, they will not be on the same page, and Josh will not maximize his potential (unless we get a guard like CP3, who really helped Tyson Chandler’s offense).
Speaking of Josh and Bosh, Toronto is be worried about losing Bosh next year when his contract is up. Keeping in mind that he played at GATech, would you trade Josh, Mo’ Evans and the 19th pick, (or Josh and whoever makes the deal works) for Bosh (if Toronto is willing). Yes, I know the Hawks would have to be convinced they could sign him to a long term deal, but would you make that trade?
darrell starks
June 1st, 2009
7:57 pm
o brien you are right but my thing is why not trade horford instead of josh?
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
June 1st, 2009
8:03 pm
Horford is a beast on the board we no that but i think josh bring more to the table if josh work on his boxing out and learning how to position him self on the boards and play more above the rim and stop posting up at the 3point line this guy could be something special but will josh ever reach that potential i think so.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
June 1st, 2009
8:10 pm
Marvin Horford and the 19pick for Bosh Raptors will take that deal knowing that Bosh will be gone in 2010.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!