All the right moves

Sekou… Thanks for the new blog.

It will be interesting to see what we do this summer. I say we trade the 19th and “an asset” to move into this years lottery or into a prime spot for next year.

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Sekou, if NBA GMS have proven nothing in the past 5-8 years (as a collective group), they have proven that they do NOT know how to hire an effective head coach. Aren’t Lawrence Frank and Woody among the longest tenured coaches in the Eastern Conference? It seems like hiring a head coach is more of a crap shoot than making a selection in the bottom third of the draft.

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I’ll ask indulgence from the rest of the blog. Astro Joe and I had a thread going that I didn’t want to leave behind, so here’s the gist of it in our last few posts to one another:

Sautee

May 19th, 2009
4:33 pm

AJ

Meant to ask you about this: “Somewhere, between a 13 win season and a 47 win season, many stopped caring for wins and grew content watching the turnstyle at the scorers table. WTF is that about?”

C’mon now Joe, “many” stopped caring about wins?

I could not name a soul on this blog who cares MORE about playing time than wins. You must be able to or you wouldn’t have made that post. Unless of course it was a straw man argument, designed only to sarcastically make your point.

So Joe, which was it? Are their REALLY folks out there on this blog, who you see as caring more about playing time than wins?

Or was that an over-reaction to the assault on Woody over player development?

Gotta be one or the other.

And then there’s thisquote from you: ” Woody is responsible for the development of the players, for free throw shooting, for turnovers, for defensive rotations, for moving screens, for poor foot work, for fast break opportunities, for points in the paint and a whole lot more. He is both responsible and accountable.”

So, next season, will we see a brand new Astro Joe, holding Woody accountable for all the afore mentioned stuff?

BTW, I agree that Dallas has little to offer.

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Astro Joe

May 19th, 2009
4:45 pm

Sautee, he is accountable for all of that stuff. Just like any other leader has to be accountable for all of the stuff that his direct reports care for. The CEO of Coca-Cola is responsible for the display at the QT in my neighborhood. Trust me, I understand that concept completely.

Player development on this blog is like the Braves blog complaining about the hitting order. Who gives a crap? The team won 10 more games. If Acie had played extensively, we still would have lost to Cleveland and we would not have had a better playoff seeding. So who cares?

The details are interesting (sometimes) but ultimately irrelevant.

Sautee

May 19th, 2009
5:10 pm

“If Acie had played extensively, we still would have lost to Cleveland and we would not have had a better playoff seeding. So who cares?”

True dat, BUT if Acie HAD played extensively, we’d now have more data to judge his potential as a possible answer to our point guard quandry.

AND, Joe would have played fewer minutes, since Flip’s minutes would have been at the 2, where they SHOULD have been in my estimation.

So maybe we play Cleveland a little better with a rested Joe, AND a little more defense and penetration at the 1, but you are correct that the result would likely have been the same.

“Player development on this blog is like the Braves blog complaining about the hitting order. Who gives a crap?”

Oh, only those who take a long range view. If player development is so easily ignored, woe be to the 2011 Hawks and beyond. If Woody is “responsible and accountable”, and yet is refusing to BE “responsible and accountable” regarding player development, then THAT ITSELF is a great reason to “give a crap”.

I’ll have to point out that you artfully dodged my questions in my 4:33 post..

C’mon, Joe, I have faith in you,answer up.

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Clearly some GMs and owners awake each morning with a singular thought: what steps must I take today and tomorrow to position this team to win the Larry O’Brien trophy as quickly and as often as possible. Then there are the others…

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AJ,

I’m not looking for a reprimand. Marching orders would be nice, though.

Sund DID say in his first interview here that it should be a priority and would be one judge of the staff. But, as you have pointed out, either he was just giving lip service, or, well I guess there isn’t an or. Lip Service it is.

Scroll back up. Every question I asked you in my “re-posted” 4:33 post was a true question except the very first, which was rhetorical.

Did Sam teach you to play dodgeball?

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Look, at the end of the day, wins matter. Period.

AMEN!

Go Hawks!!

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kirkinga,

Can you tell me who DOESN’T think that wins matter?

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Well, wins matter of course. The question, though, is not whether the team is winning, but rather whether the team is winning as many games as it is capable of winning. The Hawks won 47 games last year and won 4 playoff games by blowout margins. But they also lost 35 games, many of which were very winnable, and got blown out in 7 playoff games. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to argue that it would make sense to fire Woodson if we could get a head coach who would get more out of the roster.

Many other coaches have been fired for that very reason. In 1988, Doug Collins led the Bulls to a 47-35 record but nonetheless got fired at the end of the season because Jerry Krause didn’t think he was getting the most out of his team. Jeff Van Gundy got booted from Houston just 2 years ago for the same reason. Del Harris, Byron Scott, Flip Saunders…I could go on.

I’ll admit that none of the above-mentioned coaches were running a team that had seen 4 straight years of significant improvement. But I don’t think that should be the yardstick, just as I don’t think a winning record or exceeding some talking heads’ expectations during the regular reason should be the yardstick. The yardstick should be whether a coach is getting the most out of his team. I would argue that Woodson does not, and that one of the main reasons he does not is that he has no trust in nearly half of the players on the Hawks’ roster. Another key reason is that our offensive schemes are way too predictable, which allows us to be picked apart by decent teams when Plan A doesn’t work. Woody might have won us a couple more games during the regular season by running his backcourt and ISO-Joe heavy offense and by running his front 8 into the ground, but he did that only at the cost of wearing down the front 8 and making the Hawks absurdly easy to scout (and, as Sautee pointed out, at the cost of making it hard for us to judge the value and utility of the 6-7 players on the roster that Woody doesn’t use).

So yeah…I think it’s perfectly fair to call for Woodson’s head, wins notwithstanding, if we think his coaching is keeping the team from reaching its full potential.

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Sorry, relative not relevant.

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Thought the Woody story was dead. Forgotten. We all knew he was coming back. Knew this waaaaaayyyyy back.

Hawks have a lot of assets to play around with in the off season, including that 19 pick. I’m really interested to see what Sund will do. Tonight we find out who picks first.

Just saw a re-run of a Jan 08 match up in Staples, Lakers/Cleveland. The Cavs won by 3. LeBron scored 41, including the game winning free throws. On LA’s last play and down by 1, Cavs played such ferocious defence that LA could not get a shot off, and the clock expired.

That game was all LeBron, people. He was leaner then, now he’s packed with muscle, and fast, and STRONG. Once he sees a seam in the defence, he’s off like an express train, and NO ONE can catch or stop him. Back then, his jumper was still shaky, now it’s all net. Even the long, looong bombs. Dude makes long three’s like he’s shooting free throws, which he has also improved on. LeBron has improved his game in every facet every year. I see the same improvement in Josh, but not on the same level.

I bring this up to say, Hawks fans, don’t feel too bad about the sweep. Hawks went up against the best in the league, against the Second Coming Of Jordan.LeBron James is on a mission, people. Said it once, saying it again. Cleveland wins the NBA Title this year.

Heh, heh, heh. Always said I was rooting for the Cavs when the Hawks got knocked off!

ESPN might have been a bit presumptious showing that game. I know the world is expecting Lakers/Cleveland in the NBA Finals, but I think Denver might just have something to say about that!

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Mr. Potato Head will be back for the 2009-2010 season. Big whoop. Not surprising. Moving on. To draft or not to draft. To trade or not to trade. Who knows the answer? It’s all a gamble. Glad I’m not Rick Sund. Whew. Tough.

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niremetal, Sund says that he is coming back. I don’t quite understand how it gets more moot than that. But hey, have at it.

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Hey, Ayanna,

Don’t feel bad. Hawks done for the year. Gotta talk about the teams still playing. We’ve got all off season to talk Hawks, trades and stuff. There is still a championship to be won.

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Look, good GM’s can find a very good player at 19. Last year, Courtney Lee, Nicolas Batum and George Hill were taken in the 20’s. Rudy Fernandez was 24th in ‘07 and Carl Landry, Big Baby and Ramon Sessions were taken in the 2nd round.

Look, just because we had an invalid running the draft for the last 15 years or so does not mean it has to always be like that. Look at the two best players for the Celtics in the playoff-Big Baby was a 2nd rounder and Rondo was the 21st pick in the draft.

Paul Milsap was mid-way through the 2nd round.

Sund should focus on getting Josh Childress to come back. Then he can let Grannie-ass Marvin go. I would keep Flip and Zaza for cheap and try to get Bibby for $6 mill or so. If he wants more than that, let him walk.

Keep praying that Ty Lawson will fall to us. It just might happen.

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Hawks Maxims 1.0

Mike Woodson – turned the Hawks around in 5 seasons; made playoffs 2 yrs consecutive; including first 2nd rd playoff appearance in 10 years. Starting 5 consists of 3 players with 4yrs or less of professional experience and have a combined 4 yrs of college experience between them.

Had the Hawks better represented themselves in the Cleveland series, Woody would be the toast of the town, yet, instead, many of us are still scratching our heads. Upper mgt. has publicly given Woody the verbal green light, but the real vote of confidence is a contract extension. I havent seen that yet. Why?

Well, its complicated…

The Hawks drafted Marvin #2, Horford #3, Shelden#5, Childress#6, AC Law#11, Josh Smith#17 of which 2 are no longer with the team; with 2 more exiting this summer. Most likely leaving the team with 1 of 5 top picks over 4 years. (Josh Smith was a gift from BK and Rick Bruener.)

The development, or lack thereof, of the draft picks is troublesome. Injuries are a factor, but he’s been blessed with more than his fair share of talent during this rebuild. Now, however, the economics of player development are catching up with him and the franchise.

When you draft high 4 years in a row, those players’ contracts expire consecutively and tough decisions have to be made. This is one of those years. Last year, Childress, this year AC and Marvin. JJ’s contract is expiring. Horford is due next year. Flip deserves a raise, but not too much – see Cleveland. And we still dont have a true center or point guard. Bibby expires but Jsmoove has already gobbled that up. ZaZa deserves a new deal, who’s a better backup center in the league?

Speedy, Marvin, Childress are nice “chips” but considering Woody plays his starters 40 min a game and doesn’t trust young players, who fits?

Veterans with warts on the downside of their careers.

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I agree that good players can be picked at 19. The Hawks need to do a good job evaluating, and we also need to get lucky.

I think the Hawks need to make some changes, whether thats in the coaching staff (assistants) or on the floor. If the same team comes back, I think we will get the same inconsistencies.

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O’brien, I agree, good scouting and a little luck.

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Bad luck Webber. Can’t even get the No. 1 pick for his team.

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Ok Sund, its time for you to get on the phone with the Clippers and get Kaman in a Hawks uniform next season….

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wink, exactly a point many made earlier; the longer he evaluates and does that dance the longer he gets to ride it out. exactly opposite from the trend the falcons have had in BOTH of their rebuilding seasons. they have now over hauled the defense and are ready to accept the consequences from having a much more difficult schedule and younger team to boot. i guess they will have to coach em up on the football field. guess both could work.

really sund will have to do more than evaluate the next few months as he is in the hot seat now as the owners now now what woody can do with a fairly good team. all sund has to do is put it together and if it fails somehow say it is woody’s fault and get in line to buy a t-shirt from clyde before he has a “fire my boy rick and woody” one for sale.

gonna be a fun off season, wont be long before the masses are at each other rather than railing pros and cons of a specific player.

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Watching the Nuggets, I couldn’t help but noticed how identical their starting frontcourt is to the Hawks. Nene may have Horford by a 1/2 inch but the forwards are a wash. Know only if we could get Marvin to score like Melo…..

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Well if they fired him, it would be racist because he is black right? Also, there is big concern there there are not enough black players in baseball. Why not a study/outcry about there not being enough white players in the NBA that is full of thugs? Hmmmmmmm.

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Astro Joe,

How about those who think he should do what he SAYS he will do? Is credibility not a must for a head Coach?

Does winning conveniently wash away those sins? Don’t you think the players are smart enough to see through BS when they hear it year after year?

Are you so certain that it was Woody’s coaching prowess that led to those wins?

I’ll say this: If player development was the SOLE reason that one wanted Woody gone, then I’d have to agree with you, THAT would be placing development over wins. Otherwise, I’ll side with nire, that failure to play up to potential, and a lack of coherent offensive scheme after 5 years, is reason enough.

As far as other questions, here you go:

Didn’t you say this: ” Woody is responsible for the development of the players, for free throw shooting, for turnovers, for defensive rotations, for moving screens, for poor foot work, for fast break opportunities, for points in the paint and a whole lot more. He is both responsible and accountable.”

Yes, you did and you ALSO said this: “I guess this notion of Woody as the poor developer of talent comes from Acie’s lack of development. Which I agree has been poor.”

So, I ask again, since you think Woody has done a poor job at developing Acie, AND since you say he’s both responsible and accountable…….

Will we see you holding Woody accountable for his responsibilities next year?

Particularly those that he has given lip service to, and failed to do two years running?

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if Denver doesn’t make free throws, they ain’t gonna win this game.

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They say the NFL is a copycat league. I wonder if Woody watches other teams and tries to learn/copy something that works.

The Clippers will have Kaman, Camby, DeAndre Jordan (6′ 11″, 250 lbs)Randolph and the #1 pick (I assume Griffin). Who would they be willing to trade? And who would we be interested in?

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NIREMETAL-you’d better be careful, because you could upset some people like I did by spending too much time speaking the truth about Woodson.

ASTRO JOE-check the record. We didn’t go on any prolonged losing streaks after losing either of our 3 starters to injury. Fatigue did more damage to our team than injuries, but that combination really caught up to us during the playoffs.

Unless we can trade up and get a BIG that’s a finished product like Horford was, we need to trade our picks for what we need. Otherwise, we’ll just end up with another couple of rookies getting mistreated and little if any playing time.

With Woodson returning, the best way to improve the team is to resign JChildress, MWilliams and Flip Murray. I doubt if Zaza and Solo will come back and we all know Acie is out of here the first chance he gets. We need to trade for a vet PG that can shoot and play DEF and get a vet BIG.

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As I have said several time before, Woody will be back. This means the Hawks are relegated to finishing middle pack with a first round win being the absolute best we can hope for. Most likely we won’t have home court advantage next year, with the Heat & Bulls bearing down hard, and the Wizards if healthy will make a huge leap forward. I only hope they don’t give him an extension!

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Any chance the Clippers move Camby now that they have the number 1 pick? I think they only gave up a second round pick last year for him. Defensive guy, blocks shots and rebounds get him and maybe move Marvin for a legitimate point guard, Raymond Felton?

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Enter your comments here

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The Clippers’ will need a swingman on the perimeter. But that being said, the Clippers don’t exactly have a history of making personnel decisions based on need…

My guess is that Camby will be the one they refuse to trade unless the price is REALLY right (read: unless they get an upgrade in return) since his contract expires at the end of the year. That makes him a buyer’s-market player.

Kaman might be most likely to go since he has the most money tied to his contract. Still, I’d be shocked if could land him simply by trading our two expiring contracts (Speedy and Mo). Smoove makes no sense for them – that trade would just create a glut at PF for them without resolving their perimeter thinness and without cutting costs. A sign-and-trade involving Marvin would appeal to them from a personnel standpoint, but it probably wouldn’t cut costs (assuming Marvin gets a 5yr/$8M deal, they would be trading a $35M contract for a $40M one). So it’s tough to see a Kaman trade that makes sense for both teams.

Jordan would be interesting…if Woodson would play him. But he won’t. So that makes no sense for us.

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Sautee, I simply don’t think changing the major variables associated with the trend line makes sense. Yes, I believe in organic growth, which is borne from playng time (ironic, huh). My conversion from my Saul days came this season, when I looked up and we were a quality team. I never denied the thorns, I just decided to look beyond them.

My “all about the players” was mostly related to the 4/5 playoff match-up. And I still believe that in a playoff series with fairly evenly matched teams, the difference is more about the energy and execution of the players and less about the scheme or coaching.

Trust me, my defense of Woody is not to say that he is solely responsible for the trend line. I just don’t think that the trend line is inspite of Woody (which seems to be a prevailing thought). I think the marriage works between Woody and his players. (I think I have been fairly consistent over the past month or so in calling to keep the nucleus in tact). So why call for a divorce? It won’t always work, eventually it will fail. But a 47 win season and second round playoff appearance isn’t what I would consider the beginning of the end. It may be the height of the relationship but we won’t know that until the 09-10 season begins. I think the default thought should be to let it ride until the line begins to turn in the wrong direction. Not to assume the worse (and in doing so, assume that the next hire will guarantee greater success). I have no idea how a true NBA fan can assume that a coaching hire guarantees success. Coaches fail in ths league as often as Fox News says something negative about the POTUS.

Lastly, I’m less concerned about Woody’s plan (stay true to his word) and more concerned about the results. If a football coach plans to throw and needs to run, I won’t criticize him for making an adjus… oops, a change (almost used that word that can’t be associated with Woody). If the team won’t defend to create TOs or board to increase fast break opps, then they can’t play uptempo. So why employ a strategy doomed to failure once you’re in the game? Why not make an adjus… doggit, a change? I’m pretty sure that Woody backed away from the uptempo claim after acquiring Bibby and Chill left, when it became apparent the personnal no longer fit that approach.

Hopefully, I answered every point. If not, I trust that you will show me my thorn(s).

As usual, I’ve enjoyed the banter. Safe travels.

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I’m ready for the Clips to draft…Danny Ferry…to run the team…

I gave my Woody concern on the prior blog. I understood that he was not going away once the team got to the 2nd round of the playoffs. I don’t have a problem with that, I just hope his coaching evolves.

Astro, in response to you from this morning…after the NBA started drafting high schoolers, the league did have to take on more responsibility for teaching fundamentals. Before the draft, you will hear potential and upside passed around more than drinking glasses in a bar. In order for that potential to be realized, someone has to show these young guys the basics that they did not get at N. Hale High.

It is not a secret that many fundamental aspects of the game have been traded out of the NBA game and replaced with athleticism. The guys that have strong fundamentals tend to compete better than their athleticism would allow.

They don’t call Tim Duncan the big fundamental beacuse of all his windmill dunks.

niremetal, the thing that I did not remember and would not look up from our back and forth about Marvin next season that applies to Josh now is Base Year Compensation rules. You can research as you like, but the bottom line is that you cannot sign & trade Marvin at contract value unless the Hawks are under the salary cap.

BWAF

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Yall please tell me how Woody and the Hawks underachieved. We finished 4th in the Conference. Sure we got blown out by the best team in the league but come on.

Which one of the top 3 teams should we have beat out in the standings?

Get over it. Woody will be back another season.

Joe, I totally agree. it’s easy to demand perfection from the other guy.

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Is Anthony Carter trying to single handly lose this game for the Nuggets or what????

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Oh yeah, and color me impressed with Carmelo Anthony. Dude has improved a LOT since Billups’ arrival.

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MannyT,

You’re missing a crucial part of the BYC rules, my friend. Read #73 and #75 on the Salary Cap FAQ. The short version of the story is that your logic only applies to whether a Marvin trade meets the salary cap rules from the Hawks’ standpoint. For the other team’s standpoint, they must consider Marvin’s actual new salary. That’s why it’s so hard to work out a sign-and-trade when both teams are over the cap:

This is from #75 on the FAQ:
As an example, let’s say Player A plays for Washington. He earned $3 million last season and re-signed as a free agent for $10 million. That makes him a base year player whose BYC value is $5 million (see question number 73). Player B plays for Seattle and also earns $10 million, but is not a base year player. Both Seattle and Washington are over the salary cap.

Now suppose Seattle and Washington want to trade Player A and Player B for each other. Seattle can take back 125% plus $100,000 of Player B’s $10 million salary, or $12.6 million. Player A’s $10 million salary easily fits within that limit. But Washington can only take back as much as 125% plus $100,000 of Player A’s $5 million BYC value, or $6.35 million. Player B’s $10 million salary is too high.

That’s why it’s so damned hard to do a sign-and-trade.

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My main concern about Kaman is he has health issues.

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niremetal, so explain to me where I am incorrect. caps below for emphasis.

I said the bottom line is that you cannot sign & trade Marvin AT CONTRACT VALUE unless the Hawks are under the salary cap.

For all the cutting, pasting & inserting of Player A into Team B…

29 of 30 teams were over the cap this season so worse case I think I am 96 2/3% correct regarding the BYC as it applies to Josh. Until we have a new cap and the dust begins to settle on those numbers similar numbers are likely to apply to Marvin if his deal is slow to evolve like Smith’s was.

BWAF

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*$100k

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niremetal, I think we agree that sign & trade is rarely easy and almost never a balanced deal in terms of talent.

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package j.smith and the number one pick and trade it to memphis for gasol.
put horford in smith’s spot and resign bibby for two years.

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“All those missed free throws and all the other fumbled away possessions will keep the Denver traveling party up all night after this one.”

And despite all that, the supposedly superior Lakers could barely pull out a win on their own home floor.

I think the Nuggets take this in 6, and even if they don’t, whoever wins this series is getting their asses kicked by the Cavs.

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Samuel put your money where your mouth is Mr. Woody=Coach of The Year. The Tide Will Rise Again.

Fire Woody

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Sund: Don’t settle for average. Don’t simply get the vet that will make Woody happy. Woody is playing for a contract, he don’t care about the long term growth of the team.

Get the team a NBA starting center. Get the team a point guard, Bibby is a shooter, not a pg. Get one more scorer for the bench (Jarvis Hayes).

We are years into a total rebuilding and either we will come out of it average or very good. Right now we are headed toward average.

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Getting Marc Gasol seems like a great possibility now. They will most likely take Thabeet, which would make Gasol available.

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Mannt T & niremental,

So how do the Hawks get under the cap so they can do a sign & trade that will give them full benefit of the contract traded? Do they have to wait until after July 1 when this years’ contracts expire to get under the cap?

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Sekou,

Can you let me know what you think of this trade? Josh Smith and a sign and traded Mike Bibby with Memphis for the #2 overall. Grab Ricky Rubio PG from Spain with this pick.

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Sekou – What is the consensus among the higher ups regarding A.C. Law? Have they given up on the idea that he can be a legit starting point guard for a playoff team?

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Hoops, the Hawks could “renounce” the rights to Childress and Marvin and get under the cap. To renounce means that those guys leave the team and the Hawks are not compensated. If you do that, you need to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you can acquire quality players with your available money. You can’t let Marvin and Chill walk out the door and end up with Keith Bogans and Gerald Green as their replacements. You won’t find too many (if any) teams that renounce their lottery-selected first rounders. But fear not, Sund has many other ways to improve this team and the Hawks are actually in better shape from a cap perspective than most teams.

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Agreed with your last post, Astro….. As Doc would say, Sund is on watch now. No more wait and see approach for him. He better get it done this summer. Too many options available for him not to….

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MBZ, I had similiar thoughts as you that the Hawks will have to decide between Josh and Horford at the 4. But since watching the recent success of the Nuggets, I have change my mind. Their frontcourt is very similiar to ours in size and skill set. They have our blueprint for success. If we incorporate an offense like theirs by pushing the ball up the floor (after made/missed baskets) and play thru the post would better suit our team makeup. I think Horford is very similiar to NeNe (maybe he’s a inch shorter). However, NeNe is more effective at the 5 than he was at the 4 when he played along side Camby. His quickness seam to cause alot of problems for the opposing centers. Josh and KMart are almost identical, great athlete with no jumpshot but I think Josh could be twice as better than KMart when he fully develops. Now only if we could get Marvin to be more aggressive like Melo… Woody, I hope your are watching the Nuggets b/c this is the style of play that you should used….

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Its really not that hard.
1. let bibby go and let Acie play
2. Get Chill back
3. Trade Speedy, Marvin, and Zaza for Camby or Kaman
4. resign flip or sign sessions.
5. Draft Mullens form Ohio State.

That would give us depth. Our team would look like this:
Center: Kaman or Camby, and Mullens
PF: Al and Solomon(we need to upgrade)
SF: Josh smith and Chill
SG: Joe, Mo, and Chill
PG: Acie, Flip, and Sessions

We just need Woody to play a faster pace like Denver, and develop our youngsters like Acie and Mullens.

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You watch these clowns let Marvin Williams go at the age of 22 with four years of steady improvement. He is going to go to a team where the coach will put the finishing touches on him and he will be a beast. He and FLip are the only two players that take it to the hole. Why is Marvin being made out to the scapegoat??

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Hoops, are you insane! You want to give up Marvin, Smoove and Speedy’s contract for Gay and Gasol? Dude Gasol is not really even a starting center in the NBA. He is a Zaza at best. That is the worst trade proposal i’ve ever seen. We need to get back way more value than just Gay and a backup center for both Marvin and Smoove.

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Sekou,

Anyway the spurs start rebuilding and part with Tony Parker or Tim Duncan if they got the farm in return?

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Blake Griffin may be overrated. He plays a hell of a game, that is, until he gets…TIRED.

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HAHAHA SORRY HAWKS FANS SAME COACH SAME SORRY RESULTS

SAY IT WITH ME – LET’S GO HEAT!!!~

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Imus, Zaza is unrestricted. He cant be traded, unless we sign him 1st. Maybe that’s what you were talking about. If so, sorry. lol!

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Melvin, Bibby is no Chauncey, Marvin is no Carmelo, Horford is no Nene(not yet), and Zaza is no Birdman.

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Well another year with no offensive scheme, Iso-Joe, going away from whats working, not playing to our strengths, not using the bench, playing Joe 40 plus minutes a game, saying we just didn’t have it tonight, saying i will play certain players only not to do it, forcing guys to play a position that does not suit them. Hard to get excited about this.

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And dont forget about Maynor.

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Terrell -Yeah thats what i meant by the S&T……. Any of the players I mentioned should be used to get what we need……. I thought U knew – Dont talk greasy to Sekou -He will zap ur post like that. I was on a roll one day -as I tend to go ballistic from time to time and my post disappeared like 4 different times……….. The call him the black hand Aka SEKOU…

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Terrell,

About this statement “but to lose all 3 in Miami the way we did,”. If we beat Miami in a 7 game series 4-3 and Miami won Game 2 in the ATL. How did the Hawks lose 3 games in Miami???

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Acie is a real problem. He shows signs when he gets consistent playing time (his jumper has really improved!) — but then he gets hurt. If they sign Bibby and keep him as a back-up and then draft a PG for depth then there isn’t enough playing time to go around, and whatever rookie PG they have would waste away on the bench like Acie has. But I think he’s too good to give up on, and not good enough yet to have the full-time job.

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Okay, I have seen what everyone else has to say…and here is my two cents:

I think we sign Bibby for 3 years at around 50% of what he got last year (so that’s around 7-8 million). This team desperately needs Flip if we cannot get Chills back. Sign him for about 3 years. I’d love to see Chills back, but if he does not want to come back for a while, why not ship off his rights somewhere and package an expiring and another player and maybe a pick to get some valuable pieces? It’s worth a look.

People have talked about the decision between Horford/Smoove at the 4. Guys, right now this team has no 5, so it’s Horford at the 5. We should cross that bridge when this is actually a problem.

I REALLY like Teague from Wake Forrest. I honestly believe that he can be a “Smoove-esque” impact player down the road for this team (that is, he was under-rated come draft time but blossoms into a good player because of his talent). Maybe I am wrong, but I have a good feeling about the guy. (Maybe I keep having visions of Chris Paul coming out of Wake and think Teague could be 75% the player Paul is) Shoot, he is a great player though. I wouldn’t mind this team drafting him with this pick.

Obviously this franchise will be VERY busy this offseason, and I’m looking forward to seeing what Sund and the BASG does. Are they ready to take the next step towards being a “championship-elite” team? You can talk about it until you’re blue in the face, but you actually have to go for it someday. I think today is that day.

I personally would like to see the draft pick and speedy’s contract/Chills’ rights packaged possibly with a player or two in order to get an impact player onto this team. Who would an impact player be? Shoot, I don’t know… I’d be up for some legit C’s (those are hard to come by) or possibly a point guard. I seem to like the Sessions guy, but couldn’t the hawks just sign him out of FA?

Okay, that’s all for now…starting to ramble. I’ll have more.

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Terrell,

I didn’t say we are exactly like Denver but we are similiar. I agree we dont have the pentatrator like Billups and Marvin is not the scorer like Melo. However, JJ and Bibby together could take turns running the offense like Billups does. Marvin and Josh can makeup the scoring production of Melo. Horford and Nene are a wash. Then we still have Joe on the offensive side to be the other scoring option that Denver doesn’t have in their starting 5. As for the bench, JR and Flip both gives good production. Now ZaZa is not the shot blocking force that Birdman is on defense but he does play good post defense. If Acie every get consistent mins, he will be head and shoulders better than Anthony Carter (by the way, did yall see him give that game to LA). TB, did you notice how well we played Denver this year and wasn’t we missing a starter (I can’t remember who) for the game in Denver???

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Patty Mills could be the pick at #19: http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-2723-Atlanta-Hawks-Examiner~y2009m5d20-Potential-Draft-Prospects-Patrick-Mills

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hey sekou would that player available and better than rubio at 19 be marcus williams? oh yeah that dude is gone … from the league. heh heh ok, kidding, and yes i suggested yi instead of horford … took the words right out of your typewriter.

sekou, you must have a pretty good idea what sund will be able to produce then. as i remember the best draft pick in the past 5 years of unbelievable lottery draft picks was a high schooler, cant remember his name but wasnt he above the lottery line up and he has turned out to be the best bargain in the history of the franchise and some want to throw him away. funny that!

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Sekou
I’m getting the impression based on the vibes from Mark interview with Mr. Sund that the strategic plans going forward is basically to do nothing, stay the course and re-sign our core group with only a few exceptions of some deep bench warmers such as Gardner, Hunters, etc. Take no bold action and hope we can repeat a 4th seed. Just like defining insanity; doing the same thing and expecting a different result. If this is true we will defy the wisdom of most of the fan base on these blogs (based on feedback) and also the wisdom of some very credible sports pundits. This is beginning to sound like a bridge to NOWHERE as the obvious seems so clear. If this turn out to be true (which I hope I’m wrong with the assessment) this would be the DON’T ROCK THE BOAT ROAD Sund is traveling. In other words, the Easy Road, the job security road, the road of least resistant that the Hawks are traveling. Last year he got a pass with his inaction because he was new and needed more time to evaluate the players. He made no acquisition toward trade deadline to pickup a player that could have made the difference during our playoff appearance. Due to injury, our roster was depleted and Sund could have helped with a player add-on. Who knows, maybe that extra player could have yielded us a few wins in the second round. This year, however, the flaws are obvious and he will not be given a pass from the fans if things go awful. As I see it, the honeymoon is over for him. The fans will not tolerate mediocrity after we have come so far. At the end of today, SUND IS NOT THE BOSS, THE FANS ARE. If you don’t believe that, try having a losing season and see how many fans buy tickets to see the “NOTHING NEW, SAME OLD HAWKS” at Philips Arena. Every year we have successes, the expectation goes up. Next year we will have failed if we are not competing in the second round. You think Woody coached scared last season, what this season. If we ignore pass mistakes and don’t acquire real talent and good chemistry we are going to talk about these past two seasons as if it was the golden years.

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I just hope the Hawks sure up the roster.

I’m Buckwheat, amember me?

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Astro, I don’t see the benefit in that trade for the Wiz. Looks as if they are adding to their payroll with Speedy and JChill future salary. Remember they already have Butler with D.McGuire and AJamison to back him up at the 3… We may have to absorb one of their big contracts like Brendan Haywood (I’ll take him) to make that deal work…

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How is it that nobody is trading away JJ??? He has shown nothing but inconsistency. Take Joe and Zaza and send them to Indiana for Hibbert and Granger.

Resign Marvin and trade him plus the draft pick to Chicago for Ben Gordon.

Resign Bibby and trade him for Jack.

Now you look like this.

PG: Jack, Law
SG: Gordon, Murry
SF: Granger, Evans
PF: Smith, Lee David
C: Horford, Jones

PS: Trade Claxton for some Gatorade!

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funny do you notice folks are making trades with guys we dont have under contract or doing trades for draft choices under the same constraints of they are technically NOT on our team anymore? geez folks, wise up. right now the only tradable players under contract are jj, mo, speedy, josh, al, acie, randolph morris and the loose change of chills contract rights. any trade ideas has to come from within those boundaries if you dont want to show your severe ignorance or show us what a fantasy world you live in.

so what does that really mean?

right at this time rick sund has little to work with and that is why when we say he ha the fate f the hawks squarely on his shoulders, so he had better deliver or find a good alibi why woody forgot how to win with the players he has.

it also means we have little to talk about when it comes to trades.

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Fellow Hawks fans, Check out Mr. Bradley’s article (Q and A with Rick Sund). To be honest, I was not impressed by most of Mr. Sund’s responses.

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SB,
I like your proposal! I’m not so swift on Robert, but he is better than Solo!
The big concern that I would have with this lineup is the lack of outside shooting. Josh Smith has no outside jumper!

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Who cares! The Hawks will never win a NBA championship.

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Everyone is saying Memphis would be foolish to not draft Rubio and trade Mike Conley Jr. What do you think about trading our first round pick for Conley?

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FIRE RICK SUND.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

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Also, you’re just foolish if you think that Sund (or any other decent GM) will tip his hand as far as what he plans to do. Just because he doesn’t say that he plans to go after a big-time free agent or make a blockbuster trade doesn’t mean that there actually will be no action. Smart GMs stay mum on their plans. So you can NEVER read anything into their silence.

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Refs straight up killing the Magic right now, just as they did Hawks. Come on! Cavs are good enough without needing help from refs. Guess NBA refs are equal opportunity screw ups! Screw everybody else. Favor the team you want to advance.

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JMar,

I would rather keep our pick and try to sign Sessions as a FA. We could pick the PG from St. Mary’s if he is still available.

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Man what a difference a game make…all you hear is the ref blowing their whistle. No wonder Cleveland is such a dominate team…they have the freedom to play aggressive on both ends of the floor without the threat of the refs. They can get up in u on defense without getting to BS foul calls…having said that …LBJ is one bad MF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My opinion of Sund interview… No wonder the Sund and the ASG adores Woody…they got the measuring bar on the ground. Heh heh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay Sekou, Woody is coming back not a big surprise…I will not digress. Sund and ASG needs to give the fans olive branch to help us get through another lame duck season…I say bring back Chill…give us Chill back and that will help ease our pain.

I say, if Sund could get Camby or KMan…via trade…plus get Chill and Anderson back in the fold…that would be an very impressive off season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For the last time…Acie is our answer for PG…don’t waste no more time drafting PG…we need help at the pivot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sekou I’m impressed…I didn’t think there was no help for Bradley…I stand corrected…HE’S STARTING TO COME AROUND…U THA MAN BROOOOOOOO!!

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These refs may as well hand Lebron the trophy. This is murder. The Magic are getting the shaft….

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Big shot by R.Lewis. Now lets see if Lebron gets one of those phathom foul calls to end the game…

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good game and it shows we have a way to go. magic got what it takes.

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And Lebron cramps up to avoid the interview. lol!! The Cavs offense started looking like the Hawks in the 4th qtr. Iso, Iso, Iso.

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Dang, am I the only person on this blog who wants the Cavs to win?

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Here’s another draft-related question… is it worth committing a guaranteed $2-3 million per year and rising for the next four or five years towards a rookie who plays the same position as Acie who is already owed guaranteed money for at least the next two years? In an offseason where so many key free agent decisions need to be made, it seems like a pretty significant waste of money for someone like Jeff Teague to pick up ass-splinters next to Acie Law and Mark Price.

If the Hawks can’t find someone that can make an immediate impact in the draft trading the pick is probably the best idea.

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This GM will make a big move just to prove to the fans that he is not what we had in Night. We will have a new C and probably a new PG come next season.

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synosis of 680 interview with sund replayed today i guess from the other day:

complimented the team for being resilient during the season with key losses with personnel injuries without compromising the outcome.

he set the expectation and felt the team needed to win more than they lost and make playoffs. (in other words foks took his comment about one or the other out of context as aj implored).

during playoffs marvin, al and jj had significant injuries that would have kept them out longer if not for the playoffs

of the core, marvin, al and josh can get better, jj you want to stay al the same level and bibby is not expected to get better but likes his abilities.

would like to tinker with the roster a little bit, only there are a lot of moving parts. that could be good may be bad and be juggling a lot of things here and many things are out of his control in what others look for or want.

a lot is expected of the coaches as far as paper work. they are not to be done until after a week away from the season to get some closure before diving into the evaluation process that includes each individual evaluating every player in the league. this past week has been spending time with the scouting staff bringing him up to date.

cant prioritize personnel needs this year because there are so many moving parts in this particular off season.

chills camp playing it close to chest, he has to leave greece, then we tender an offer.

got a good nucleus, would like to keep the core or change it if necessary to make it better.

it is a process along the way in development to reaching the higher levels during playoffs so not disappointed in team or individuals performance, specifically jj. only disappointed he couldnt evaluate the team heathy which they obviously werent.

east is interesting, magic has better team, cavs the better individual player.

probably lakers in west, weird playoffs in general.

likes the hawks team because they can play both tight and on the fly.

zaza is a nice piece, wants to keep him if they can, sounded apprehensive about who might come calling.

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doc, thanks for the recap. I missed the 680 interview altogether.

jhan, great point. Sometimes the right play is to “trust your teammate” and make the pass to the open player.

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Last season, neither Orlando, Cleveland nor Denver were in the conference finals. Orlando and Cleveland both lost in the second round last season (Denver in the first round). This league is about incremental improvement. Sure, there may be an exception here and there. But Daly’s Pistons had to take out the Celtics after years and years of trying. MJ had to overcome Daly’s Bad Boys. It’s typically an iterative process.

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Anthony Johnson actually had a decent game last night. And the Magic let Mo Evans go, they drafted Courtney Lee (out of Western Kentucky) and signed Mickael Pietrus. Pietrus hit a couple big shots last night. But I guess it helps when you have 3 all stars on your team to shoulder the load.

I like Hedo Terkoglu’s game. And he only made $6.8 mil last year. A 6′10″, 220 lbs SF (could Marvin be a poor man’s Terkoglu?).

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Recalling that “styles make fights” thing, Orlando matches up with Cleveland better than other teams in the East.

While I am not calling Hedu a defensive stopper by any means, he is tall enough to force LeBron to evade up versus simply looking over him. The more LeBron uses his strength inside, the more crowded the lane. Give me a crowded lane with D. Howard in the mix and I’ll take my chances over the course of a series.

Offensively, the other forward (that LeBron is not guarding) will always have an advantage on the other Cavs forward.Because both can score, that is the mismatch to exploit.

BWAF

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oh..my…gosh. It just ate that entire post I wrote?

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This is also the first series that LeBron has had to play defense. Tayshaun didn’t put pressure on him and goodness knows that Mo Evans was a non-factor. And like Manny mentioned, the Hedu/Rashard tandem is a bad match-up because Varejao can’t stay with either of those guys on the perimeter. Orlando forces the opposing teams PF to play away from the basket which creates more offensive rebounding opportunities for Howard and others. It will be interesting to see how the happy-go-lucky Cavs respond to a little adversity.

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i put the win on orlando in spite of a huge game by lebron. he outdid himself from just two games ago when he torched us and we couldnt deal with it. the rest of the cast played like they did in atlanta both games, complimentary. it is who the cavs are and not as invincible as once thought against the lesser teams detroit and the hawks. no walk in the park.

folks were ready to give the trophy to the cavs for the next decade and are now coming down to earth and reality. stern baby it isnt about one guy and the sooner you learn that the more fun we have as fans and it looks more like the nfl and will make a ton of money. take the star system out, didnt work for baseball and it wont work for the nba. life and society is about more than the big guy.

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ill-logic,

How will Houston offer Bibby 7 mil if they are over the cap? Matter of fact I think there will be less than 5 teams under the cap for next season unless the cap increases. So I doubt we will see alot of big spending on FA’s this summer without doing a sign & trade. So if Houston wants to pay Bibby big bucks, they will have to do S&T with the Hawks.

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This slow economic time is just what the ASG ordered. Every team will be operating on the cheap just like the ASG. Sort of evens the playing field now that all GM’s will be held fiscally responsible for their moves.

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Manny T, I posted a huge thing on the game last night, only for it to be eaten up by the “Matrix” as we all know so well now.

I’m going to say the support players to LeBron were nonentities. Mo Williams was around 6-19 shooting I believe, and I do not know whether to blame him for missing 13 shots, or credit Anthony Johnson for the pretty good defensive game that he played.

Sczerbiack wasn’t in there taking “charges” and knocking down every three he took like against the Hawks. He definitely didn’t do ANYTHING. I’m going to have to also point out Delonte West wasn’t as effective as he was against the Hawks (anyone can be good against Bibby) but he did make ONE clutch three (but missed the game winner).

I find it funny that the Cavs were hoopin’ and hollerin’ at the beginning of the game but they weren’t “lighting the fire” or “taking photos” and flexing their muscles when the game was on the line.

CHOKE.

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who cares, I had the Magic winning the series anyway. Orlando is the one team, that big numbers from an opposing star player doesnt effect them.

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Volman, Thats why you gotta copy the big posts to Word before ou post them lol. Sometimes It just doesnt like what you have to say and no matter how many times ou re-post the same stuff, it won’t show up.

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Volman, are you serious? They fired Skyhawks a few weeks after de-feathering Spirit? OK, niremetal, explain to me all of the vast financial resources available when they fire a helpless bird and a grown man in a cheesy mascot uniform? Sad, sad turn of events. I guess John Edwards, Esteban Batista, Donta Smith and Cedric Bozeman are all on their way back to the squad.

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Sekou,

After watching the debacles of Salim Stoudamire, AC Law what chance does a young player like Randolph Morris stand in this regime. Its frustrating to see management acquire seemingly very good college players and watch them dry rot with the Hawks.

Nightly, we see guys salvaged off the scrap heap (Rafer Alston, AJ Johnson, Gortat, Courtney Lee) making big play after big play for their teams; while the Hawks seem to willing to just fold the tent after an injury or two.

Are they really ok with losing b/c two players were hurt? The Rockets gave the Lakers all they could handle without Yao Ming or Tracy McGrady. Where’s the heart?

Or is it the philosophy? I win or lose with my starters, period end of story? Well, to the contrary the show must go on. Are we to believe there was no one healthy on that bench willing to put up a better fight than we witnessed?

The Hawks quit and that’s not acceptable and its not being addressed. Surely, Woody deserves another year or two. But this business of running the starters in the ground to save my job doesnt bode well for the future and wont get you beyond the first round.

Depth has to be developed from the draft. ASG cant compete on the open market. And we cant continue to throw away draft pick after draft pick b/c Woody cant figure out how to play guys 2min a quarter.

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Ariose, haha! I got you! I will definitely be copying and pasting into word… Ouch, my hands hurt from typing so much! I had so much to say! haha

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What happened to Ray and Ando’s last post on the other blog? Disappeared overnight. Wow.

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As for the sign-and-trade rules, I refer you to the running dialogue that MannyT and I had on that subject

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Hoops, you are trying to make me break my commitment to not dig into my capology/free agent info until after Memorial Day

niremetal has done a fine job covering the key points. Just don’t ask me to explain cap holds. I always heve to look up how much of a hold you have to reserve under different conditions, but it suffices to say every player has a cap number or a cap hold value.

There isn’t much to do regarding the Hawks except draft specualtion until late June. Then we get some free agent speculation and a summer league team that has no place to play unless we are headed to Vegas. Now if the Hawks were in the NBA/Las Vegas Summer League that would be a fine trip if not for family, work, etc.
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/05/01/jazz.summer.league.ap/index.html

Melvin–Woody mainly spoke about the Cavs and Magic. Little was said about his team…I had to run off and there was no replay 2 hours later due to college tennis. It should appear on their webpage in a day or two, but nothing special.

doc–I did like AJ while he was here. He wasn’t the long term solution as a starter, but I liked him on this team more than Lue. I am happy for both. Even Jeremy Richardson gets a free ride on teh Magic carpet.

volman–tell me the Skyhawk thing is a bad joke. I know Spirit the Hawk is grounded, but the cuts go into more of the mascots. Harry better be careful. I could see no in arena mascot, but a bunch of Harry the Hawk/Skyhawk cartoons. Animated characters can do things that humans are not allowed to do.

BA–maybe the Hacks got an agent and are negotiating an extension on their contract

hmm…a pro wrestler, a ETF stock derivative, or a Hawks Hacks Holdout. What is Triple H?

BWAF

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That’s pretty good Astro Joe. The Hawks need to put you in charge of the PR Dept.

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Woody was only talking about game 1 of the Magic-Cavs series. they asked him questions like: Will the cavs bouce back, how to defend them, how tough are the magic etc….

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LAST NIGHT MAJIC VS CALVALIER GAME SHOULD TEACH THE HAWKS A VALUABLE LESSON. THE MAJIC DID NOT BELIEVE ALL OF THE LEBRON JAMES JIVE.THEY DID NOT BACK DOWN OR GET SCARED THE WAY THE HAWKS DID.INSTEAD OF BANKING ON ROOKIES WHO WON’T BE READY TO GET THEM OVER THE HUMP, THEY NEED SOMEONE ON THEIR TEAM LIKE RON ARTEST. HE WILL LIGHT A FIRE IN THEM IN THE LOCKER ROOM AS WELL AS ON THE COURT. THE ONLY PLAYER THEY HAVE ON THEIR TEAM NOW WHO ISN’T SCARED IS JOSH SMITH BUT HE IS NOT MATURE ENOUGH YET TO BE A LEADER.HAVING SOMEONE LIKE ARTESE OR EVEN SHAQ O’NEIL WILL CUT OUT THESE BABY WRIST INJURIES AT CRUNCH TIMES AND SORE ANKLES AND JOE JOHNSON QUITTING AND SAYING HE’S TIRED. RICK SUND, DON’T GET CAUGHT WITH THE CELL PHONE STUCK IN YOUR EAR DOING THE OFF SEASON AND DO NOTHING TO BRING IN THE TYPES OF PLAYERS TO WIN THE NBA CHAMPIONSHIP NEXT SEASON.

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PeNaL CoLoNy,

First off, JJ didn’t have a layup. He was facing a 12-foot baseline jumper while being double-teamed – and one of the two people double-teaming him was the guy who finished #2 in the league in blocked shots. Also, are you Professor Xavier? No? Then you have no clue whether JJ knew that Flip was behind him or not. My guess is that JJ DID know that Flip was behind him, but I obviously have no way to prove that – just as you have no way to disprove it.

Second, there’s obviously much more to whether a pass was smart than how close each player was to the basket. JJ might have been closer to the basket, but he was double-teamed while Flip was wide open. And in any case, LeBron also passed out of a double team to a teammate who was further from the basket than he was (in fact, twice…he passed from the elbow to West for a corner 3 with 42 seconds left and from under the basket to Mo Williams outside the perimeter (who then passed it to West in the corner) with 9 seconds left), so criticizing JJ for doing the same thing makes no sense. And what does the number of points that a player scored BEFORE in that game have to do with whether passing up the last shot should be deemed unselfish vs. cowardly?

Third, nobody was saying JJ was a superstar. People just pointed out (correctly) that it’s a double standard to praise LeBron and Pierce as “unselfish” when they pass the ball to a teammate with a better look at the basket when the game’s on the line, but then slam JJ for not being a leader when he does the same thing in the same situation.

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I’m sure they’d be interested in Smoove, considering that they tried to sign him a year ago. The salaries would work out in a Smoove for Darko + the #2 pick, but but I don’t think deal would make sense for either team now. From the Hawks’ perspective, Rubio would not fit well into Woody’s “system” and Smoove is too valuable a young player to give up for a draft pick and a mediocre big man (even one with an expiring contract like Darko’s). From the Grizzlies’ perspective, if cash is what they’re looking for, they surely wouldn’t be willing to take on Smoove’s $48M contract.

In any case, this is rumor #4543655 about a team looking to dump salary, but we have not yet seen a single team that has actually made salary-dumping moves. I seriously doubt the Grizz would give up the #2 overall pick in exchange for nothing more than cash and a lower pick. If they were, I’m sure they’d insist on a pick higher than the Hawks’ #19 pick.

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Man, mentioning that they’re scared about the luxury tax is just plain stupid. At the very least, you take the politician’s route and say “We’re confident that we are in a financial position to make the moves the team needs to make.” If you’re really smart, you take the Jazz’s position of insisting that you’re willing to go over the tax cap. That statement probably will scare a few teams away from pursuing Okur or Boozer, since they won’t want to invest in negotiations if they think Utah will be willing to outbid them.

Then again, this is the guy whose only significant move was trading Mo Williams and Desmond Mason for Luke Ridnour and Damon Jones…

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Someone on this board earlier in the year told me I was crazy for saying Ariza(lakers) is better than Marvin. How crazy am I really???????

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oh please my grandma could score 20 points if she played wit kobe pau and bynum and had 6 wide open shots

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Oh, I did forget one thing that Hammond did as GM. He drafted Joe Alexander when Augustin, Bayless, and Brook Lopez were still on the board. Oops.

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The Bucks GM said they will be close to the tax threshold. And that is one reason why I think we can sign Sessions, because I dont think they want to go over the cap. However, Sessions is not a good 3pt shooter, so Woody might not be interested.

Speaking of Woody, he met with Sund, and there was no talk of an extension. You know what that means. That means Woody will wear his starters into the ground again next year.

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Also, baseball is very, very different in terms of free agents since there’s no salary cap and no luxury tax. So of course the Yanks always get their guy – they can sign whoever the hell they want and can outbid any other team in doing so.

As far as Gordon, two things. First, Forman could be BSing and using that line to keep other teams from bidding on Gordon. Second, even if Forman is telling the truth, of course you don’t use misdirection ALL the time. To use a poker analogy, if you bluff on every hand, the other players eventually will catch on and start calling your bluffs. So you tell the truth some of the time and bluff other times. There’s no right or wrong answer as far as how much bluffing you do versus playing it straight, but smart players do a bit of both. You haven’t yet acknowledged the fact that Sund gave away some stuff too – most obviously, he always maintained last summer that the Hawks would match any offer for Smoove (which was true AND helped keep team from bidding on him), and he’s saying now that he wants to keep the Hawks’ core together. But on the stuff where stakes are highest, the smart GMs – like smart poker players – play their cards close to their vest.

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Rod,

How you like Ariza now….lol…. just poking at you…

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cool nuggets take one in la.

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Melvin, I agree that Sund’s record (especially in the draft) is not impressive. He drafted Swift, Petro, and Sene.

If we keep Marvin, I hope we can bring Chills back. That way he can be our backup SF, and Mo Evans can be our backup SG. That way JJ won’t have to play so many minutes. Resign Flip and Zaza, sign another big (backup PF), and sign a starting PG (Bibby, Jack, Sessions etc.). Add our 2 draft picks, and an offensive co-ordinator, and I would be okay with that.

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GEORGE KARL = COY

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starting five next year teams.
BUCKS SESSION, REDD, JEFFERSON, VILLANUEVA, BOGUT
SIXERS WILLIAMS, IGUODALA, YOUNG, ELTON, DALEMBERT
WIZARDS STEVENSON, ARENAS, BUTLER, JAMINSON, HAYWOOD
BOBCATS FELTON, BELL, WALLACE, DIAW, OKAFOR
HEAT CHALMERS, WADE, MOON, BEASLEY, ONEAL
NETS HARRIS, DOOLING, CARTER, YI, BROOKS
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

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Good catch, Najeh…wow, that’s bizarre.

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GS lost out on Elton Brand last year, so lets put Josh Smith out there. Nellie might just bite. Here we go. My new Hawks offseason:
1.Re-sign Bibby and Flip(2 year deals)
2.Re-sign Zaza
3.Bring back Chills
4.Trade Josh Smith/Mo Evans and #19 to GS for Biedriens and #7.
5.Trade #7 for cash considerations and use the extra cash to sign Brandon Bass and Eddie House(Bibby’s brother in law).
6.Draft Jeff Pendegraph(PF depth) in the 2nd rd.
1st team: Bibby, JJ, Marvin, Horford, Biedriens
2nd team: Acie, Flip, Chills, Bass, Zaza (with House,Pendegraph,Mario)
2010 SE div Champs. Thoughts?

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terrell barron,

You’ve got some great possibilities there. I’m not sure all of that can happen. The Hawks will never trade Josh Smith. I think he is a tweener and we could get a great big man for him, but it will never happen. I really think we can get Sessions @ PG if we let Bibby go. I would like to see us get another shooter because I am thinking that Sund will use Marvin in a sign & trade after July 1 to get another player. I guess I have quit dreaming and started to look @ what Sund will really do. This is what I see:
PG-Sessions, Flip
SG-JJ, Chill
SF-Williams, Evans
SF-J.Smith, Draft best PF
C-Horford, Zaza

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Great win by the Nugget that was a terrific game. Interesting comments about GMs…I remember the echoes about BK on this blog…you would have thought that he was the Worst GM on the planet. Yet he has received nothing but praise from his successor. Either Sund don’t know squat about being a GM or the people that was dogging him didn’t know squat about being a GM or both.

Excuse me if I’m some what leery about these same people heaping so much praise on Sund. I have yet to be convinced that ASG has given Sund the latitude to be an affective GM…that certainly wasn’t the case for BK. Hopefully I’m wrong and this is the turning point for this organization. WE WILL SEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I think the Hawks have to either bring Chiils back this year, or trade his rights, because next offseason he will be unrestricted. (Although you wonder how he feels about seeing the Hawks making it to the second round.

Terrell, I think Josh/Mo/19th pick is a lot to pay for Biedrins/7th pick. I think Josh and the 19th pick should be enough. And then we can use the 7th pick to draft somebody (the bad thing is its mostly PG and SG that might be worth the 7th pick).

I like the idea of signing Brandon Bass though. But I would say no to Eddie House, especially if we resign Flip, because Flip does not pass the ball enough to give House open looks on the second team.

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The reason that Woodson is not being extended at this time is because he did not comply with the primary directive given to him by Sund: player development. And that is what hurt (pun intended) the team the most in the playoffs, the bench was not prepared to step in when some of the starters went down.

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Folks,

We can’t trade Chills’s rights, just like we can’t trade Marvin’s. He’s officially a free agent – just one with whom we have the right to match offers.

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I dont like that trade smoove for biedrins if we are going to trade josh you better get and impact player not just for size.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Hops, that’s basically the same team we put out there this year. I dont see it as that much of an upgrade, ifwe just go with Sessions instead of Bibby. But if we did go with your idea,I’d do it like this:
pg: Sessions/Acie/Flip
sg:JJ/Evans
sf:Marvin/Chills
pf:Smith/Pendegraph
c:Horford/Zaza

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Hops, I meant to put Flip at 2 guard backing up JJ. Evans can plug the 2 or the 3 when needed.

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Woody improve in.
1.Develop your bench in order for you to succeed in the nba you have to have at least a 9 man rotation joe can not play more than 38min a night you have to keep your starter fresh during the season.
2.Find and offensive system dont play to much 1 on 1 basketball dont have joe dribbling the ball all day long swing the ball around and run more screams and post plays.
3.Teach your team on how to box out size doesnt matter if you teach your team on how to position your self on how to rebound moses malone who played center and was only 6′10 out rebounded every body and charles barkley 6′6 they new how to rebound.
4. Stop josh for shooting 3s and dribbling the ball up court if he does 1 time put his butt on the bench.
5. Defense rebound and run stop this half court game.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!

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Can woody develop acie law and let him starte i think so we have to cut bait with bibby 15million if bibby not shooting well he is a liabillty. GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I agree with you on the Acie thing though. I dont know about starting, but I cant see a rookie pt guard coming in here and doing much more than Acie could do, if given the chance. He’s quick, he can penetrate, and he already knows Woody’s system. Pass to JJ, and get the hell out of the way.

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Patrick Mills could start right away if given the oppurtunity…..

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Chills has been worried about their fans for the longest. In an interview with Lang Whitaker earlier in the season he seemed very uneasyand somewat astonished when talking about the intesity of the fans and the fact that sometimes ou may not even be able to leave your own house after a loss.That’s why Will Bynum came back stateside(well, and because of that legal trouble he got into over there in macabbi lol).

TB, I agree he will probably come back, if he’s smart. You can’t go to stanford without some kind of common sesnse lol. He needs to get tha heck outta there lol. His team is not good enough. It’s just him and Jannero Pargo(who is unrestricted and will be looking for a job BTW….). Didn’t Pargo and JJ play on the smae Arkansas squad? I’m fairly certain they did.

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Cleveland down 1-0, and LA tied 1-1. Take that Stern. lol!!

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Orlando Vs. Denver Baby!!!! NBA Finals 09′!!!!!

Fu%$!ck Lebron. If he wins a title, his head will swell up so big that his neck won’t be able to support it anymore lol…..and kobe has enbough rings. Besides Chauncey has always been my guy so i’m defently rooting for denver.

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Ditto Ariose, Chauncey’s my dude …..and for all the Melo haters “Take That” ” Take That”
I am so sick of folks shyt’n on the guy when he is just as talented as Wade and Bron……. I mean he did sum immature things when he first came to the league but he has gotten his head right and is probably the best pound for pound scorer in the league………… GO DENVER

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I meant Dumars has to be sick right now. Damn Sekou, why cant we edit?

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Nellie said that Crawford wasn’t a fit. I wouldn’t mind getting him. He also said that he was looking to move Randolph.

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Ray,
At this point, his track record speaks for itself. Thats the best determining factor that I can use to evaluate him and he has not been impressive. The man drafts poorily and I haven’t seen a trade that he made to put his team over the top. I think his best move was drafting Rashard Lewis, if he was the GM at the time. And his next best move was signing FLIP last year so that’s almost a 10 year span since he made solid decisions. Uh, not good by my standards. So if Sund wants to disclose inside info like the Bucks GM or dodge questions like bullets in the Matrix so be it. All I hope/ask is that he does a good job assembling a winning team to play in Philips for next season and beyond….

And for those who say ASG prefers to run things on the cheap, look at this quote from Mark Bradley.

“Sund inherited last summer’s free agents, and it’s no secret he valued Josh Childress less than ownership did. The fractious Atlanta Spirit actually gave the new general manager permission to exceed the salary cap on Childress – you can do that to keep your own free agents – and Sund declined. “

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Big Ray

May 22nd, 2009
2:40 pm
Melvin,

I didn’t say Sund was the ultimate GM. I do think he’s good about holding certain things close to his vest (not saying anything particularly revealing about whether he thinks Woody and this team is a good fit when asked, avoiding his contract stuff altogether). Hammond is new to the gig, no matter how you split hairs about Milwaukee’s finances. Either he’s hiding his true ace card (because they have moves the MUST make, like it or not), or he’s saying too much. That’s my take, and I’m no expert or pundit, so take it with either a grain or barrel of salt, whichever you please.

And if you’ve read anything I’ve said about him in the past, it quantifies the statement I made: we will soon get to see if he’s as clever in moving the pieces as he was in maneuvering through the questions. Either he is, or he isn’t. We’ll see.

Ill-logical,

I woudldn’t put it all on that one idea. I think Woody has yet to receive an extension because it’s better to see if he can maintain a winning environment, record and all, for more than one season. Even then, there’s probably more to it than that. There usually is. ”

D’accord. Consider my statements amended accordingly. Thanks.

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Wow, Fred. That was seriously one of the most NOT insightful analyses ever. And do some fact-checking before you talk about minutes stuff. Geez.

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niremetal,

I forgot about the Payton for Ray trade. That was a good trade. Is that the same Ridnour that was rotting away on Seattle bench with the big fat contract when they acquire Watson (who has since been surpass by the rookie Westbrook) who eventually replace him? Now Ridnour has move on to the Bucks where he has again being surpass by Session (a 2nd year player). Yeah, Luke was a real bargin pick. You want to know how good Luke is, review the game he played against the Hawks this season and pay close attention to who’s guarding him. None other than Bibby and how many other PG’s in the league has Bibby drew the defensive assignment against this season????
And no need to talk about the bigs that Sund drafted or sign b/c we agree that he has no eye for talent in the area. I wonder where Calvin Booth at these days….

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Ray,
Ditto. Like I said earlier “All I hope/ask is that he does a good job assembling a winning team to play in Philips for next season and beyond”. I will support this team regardless of what Sund do…

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Melvin,

I’m with you. Stuck with them through worse…..

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How about Andrew Bynum at $12.5 million and Jordan Farmar at $ 1.9 million for Joe Johnson at $ 14.9 million. Joe runs the triangle ( see Ron Harper) which the Lakers need badly and the Hawks get a center and a point guard. Marvin plays the 2 and we get bigger,faster and over time better.

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If BJ Mullens is on the board, I can’t imagine that Sund passes him up, especially with Solo on the way out the door.

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Samuel,

In your bleacher report article you said this:

“The Hawks should look to move Law to more of an up tempo team while he still has trade value. ”

And in a post to O’Brien yesterday, you said this:

“We need to get at least 8 or 9 good players so that we can push the ball more.”

If we need to push the ball more, why do you suggest trading our fastest PG to a “more uptempo team”?

Why wouldn’t we just keep him and play him?

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and the “crab dribble” has made its way into the fold…

hahaha… sucka…

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LBJ is the man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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You don’t pass up legit 7 footers with that much upside if they’re there at #19, “clown” or no. Mullens has skills, athleticism, and all the other “tools” a good big man needs. The only question is whether he can marry the skill with effort and awareness to put it together. Jermaine O’ Neal was in a similar boat in ‘96 (he went #17), and he became an All-Star once he was traded from Portland (where he’d been sitting behind Sabonis and ‘Sheed).

Not saying that Mullens is the next O’Neal. Just saying that at that point in the draft, you don’t pass up a legit, talented 7 footer – even if he hasn’t shown the ability to put it together yet at all – unless there’s a clear-cut baller available. And to be blunt, in this draft, there are not likely to be many “ballers” available at #19, and certainly not any at PG or C, which is where we’re weak (I don’t see Flynn/Maynor/Lawson slipping past Philly and Minnesota).

All that being said, I gotta think that Sund will be shopping that pick. He obviously got a read on how Woodson deals with “project” players like Mullens (or Teague), so I bet he’ll be making some phone calls in the next few weeks.

PS – the guy to watch in the late first round is Omri Casspi. Assuming he stays in the draft, he’ll be a steal for a team picking 20-30.

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http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=12709

Mullens Explaining why he sucked at OSU….

O.K Maybe “Clown” was a little strong hehehehehe. It’s just that with 47 wins, we’re right there….on the cusp. If Sund plays this offseason right, I get to trash talk all the hater like Jon Bary and Charles Barkley next season.

If Mullens isn’t there at 19, would you take Hansbrough?

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Sekou has the Hawks taking Ty Lawson in his mock draft. That is not a very comforting workout schedule the Hawks have setup for potential draft picks. Other teams have many player scheduled for workouts. Doesn’t a lot for prepardeness…

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I think Blair is a little on the short side though…and the Hawks desperately need length…..

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Ariose, I agree with your last comment. I seriously love Blair’s game, but Blair would be a wasted pick for the Hawks since we most certainly do not need an undersized PF at this point…

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Can our media savvy GM acquire a higher pick in the draft????

“2. Which teams will be looking to trade?

Lots of them. Among the possibilities:

• The Wizards will be offering to deal No. 5 in an attempt to acquire a veteran, as well as to trim payroll to avoid the luxury tax next season. The last time they held the No. 5 pick, in 2004, they dealt it to Dallas for Antawn Jamison (while the Mavs used it to draft Devin Harris).

• Minnesota could package No. 6 with its other two first-rounders (Nos. 18 and 28) to either move up or acquire a ready-made star.

• Oklahoma City (Nos. 3 and 25) will tirelessly explore all options in search of the best value, but then that’s like predicting winter will follow autumn.

Because there are no sure-thing All-Stars in this draft — not even Blake Griffin is viewed across the board as a certainty to become a No. 1 or 2 star on a good club — teams will develop idiosyncratic tastes for certain players. Some teams may love Jordan Hill, while others may view little future in him. I’m guessing the hot players who will be in demand by a number of teams will be skilled offensive stars such as Rubio and Curry.”

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Just wondering why Cleavland was able to inbound the ball so far down the court for the final shot that won the game. Thank you

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Sam,

I don’t think the Hawks have the upperhand on Childress. He can stay in Europe next season (and make more money) then return to NBA after next season as a unrestricted Free Agent. Then the Hawks would lose a former lottery pick without compensation….

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I think we need to trade Marvin and a future draft pick to a team to move up in the draft and take Brandon Jennings the kid is unbelievable. I have not seen a PG like that in a long time you tube him and see for yourself. Then I would trade bibby for a true center or if not add another scorer off the bench like jamal crawford…..And definitely try and bring David Anderson here….Childress would be nice but i know thats strecthing it. Sekou what do you think about that?

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The hawks need another player who command double team if we are going to the next level.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!

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Astro Joe

May 19th, 2009
5:40 pm

Astro Joe, great, great entry!!!….

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Obrien,

You’d say that too if you had to finish out the Finals there this year.

“Very passionate”. The understatement of the year.

He’ll be back.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwposMephTM

Yup, by the end of workouts, budinger will move up. We should take Teauge or Mills, sign Rasheed and Look for Danny Green or Robert Dozier in the Second Round.

Hey, wasn’t Tyrese Rice from Boston College a Senior?

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I think the Hawks need to make a draft day trade with the Dallas Mavericks by trading Marvin Williams for their 22nd pick. I would use the 19th pick to acquire Tyler Hansbrough or the best point guard available and pick DeJuan Blair with the 22nd pick. I would resign Mike Bibby, Flip Murray, Zaza Pachulia and Josh Childress, acquire David Andersen for insurance if Zaza Pachulia decides to sign elsewhere, waive or trade Speedy Claxton.

The new roster would look something like this

PG- Bibby/Flip/Drafted Pg
SG- Joe Johnson/ Maurice Evans
SF- Josh Childress/Tyler Hansbrough
PF- Josh Smith/ DeJuan Blair
C – Al Horford/ David Andersen or Zaza Pachulia

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samuel i used to love march madness, it is ho-hum in comparison to the forty in forty concept. i keep asking myself, what am i still doing awake until there is another finish like the last few nights.

umm also dont fight it….. GEORGE KARL=MVP

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Hoops is right on one front. We can’t trade Marvin. He’s a free agent. The only thing we can do is sign-and-trade him (like we did with Harrington) or match another team’s offer sheet for him (like we did with Smoove). As an aside, even if we could trade Marvin before the draft, we’d be insane to give him up for just a late first rounder. Hell, in this draft, we’d be insane to give him up for anything other than one of the top 2 picks. As for a “Big,” I’d rather see us trade Smoove for a big than Marvin, because Smoove will never, ever, ever be a small forward.

But the same applies to Childress – we don’t have “rights” to him. He’s just a restricted free agent, same as Marvin. Exact same rules apply. We don’t have any rights to trade.

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Yea Doc,

This stuff is better than sex. Not!!!

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Doc,

Can’t your boy Karl draw up a better inbounds play? Two games in a row. My Gosh!

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ok, samuel i think i know the answer to this one … like woody=coy, it is about the players executing the plan, right? i cant remember where i saw that one but it sounds like it fits, and yup NOT, but what am i up doing watching at this time of night?!

kind of anti-climactic game being a “blow-out” in the end, the last 30 seconds at least.

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Who would you rather have? Marvin Williams, or Trevor Ariza?

From the way Ariza is playing, I would take him (at the ripe old age of 23). And he only made $3.1 mil this season. Is he available? (Even if he is, he’s a UCLA guy, so the Lakers will probably keep him and let Odom go, but still, he’s been impressive. And you can’t go by just the numbers).

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Melvin’s got it nailed. And the “defensive play” on the inbounds pass tonight was just a horrible inbounds pass. K-Mart threw it behind and above Anthony…hell, Bibby coulda picked off that pass. Ariza is one of those guys who looks great because he’s surrounded by great players. It’s the same reason that Michael Finley and Brent Barry (and now Roger Mason) occasionally put up 20-point performances on the Spurs.

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I would rather draft a player like DeJuan Blair over resigning Marvin Williams. I just think with Marvin on the roster, the Hawks are too much of a finesse (soft!!) team. If you noticed in the playoffs the Hawks were out hustled and out worked by players like Udonis Haslem, Joel Anthony (who?) and Anderson Varejao. The Hawks need more players to help Al Horford and Josh Smith attack the glass. I really think DeJuan Blair will be a Paul Millsap like player. I would use the 2nd round pick to draft Garret Siler from Augusta State.

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I have always said that if your going to be and elite team that you have to either have a top 5 super star or a at least 2 or 3 stars on your team to even have a chance to win a nba title period and looking at the hawks we have 1 star who is not the type of player who wants to leads his team joe is a coplement player to a another star and we dont have that player.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Pinafore (sorry, couldn’t resist),

If there were a “finished talent that only needs some polish” who was going to be available at 19, I’d agree. But who would that be? Is there a guy available at 19 who 1) can contribute right away; 2) doesn’t play at SG/SF, where we already have a glut; and 3) is someone Woody would play? I don’t see it. If I’m wrong, draft that guy. If I’m right, get the 7 foot-tall project and wait for Woody to get fired.

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O’brien

Trevor Ariza no doubt. Made that observation much earlier in the season, and was told by the establishment on this board that I was crazy. He is better than Marvin in every stage of his game except the mid range jump shot. That is the point about Marvin, he is easily replaceable. Marvin is our forth option also, and in no way compares to Ariza. Valid comparison, and very easy to determine who the better player is.

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“If there were a “finished talent that only needs some polish” who was going to be available at 19, I’d agree. But who would that be? Is there a guy available at 19 who 1) can contribute right away; 2) doesn’t play at SG/SF, where we already have a glut; and 3) is someone Woody would play? I don’t see it. If I’m wrong, draft that guy. If I’m right, get the 7 foot-tall project and wait for Woody to get fired.”

Jeff Teague is a better fit in my opinion. There will have to be a young point guard around to learn from Bibby whom Woodson loves, and Mr. Law is probably no longer that player. Jeff Teague can shoot and handle and basically do what Bibby does, which is what Woodson wants in his point guards obviously. If he is available he is a better pick than Mullens. But I suppose that is not a good pick, and a guy who is taller than but less experienced than Randolph Morris, Solomon Jones, and Othello Hunter is a better pick? And your solution is to just wait for Woodson to get fired? Somehow I don’t think being seven feet tall will be enough to get off the bench. It might be enough in college but not the nba. Last time talent, potential and all that stuff was the reason for the pick, the Hawks spent a number two pick on a guy who didn’t even start for his college team and is now barely the fourth highest scoring guy on our team. Waited four years for Woodson to get fired so the guy could automatically become better than ever. You can wait on Woodson losing his job and the seven footer becoming a great player. I would not hold my breath on either one or you will pass out.

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O’Brien,

Yeah, I forgot to who posted the blog (I think it was Mark Bradley), but they said that Sund didn’t value Chills as highly as ownership did. Interesting, I thought. I agree with you though. Sund should try and make something work with his NBA rights, or something along those lines. However, it may not happen, as much of this will depend on what Childress wants to do (or where he wants to go), what interest other teams have in him, and what we can get out of it. Probably the first and second variables more than anything else. As you say, anything else means we let a lottery pick go for nothing…and that, my friend, is not good asset management, regardless of what you may think of the player.

I have a hard time seeing him come back to us, though. He won’t start for this team, particularly not if Marvin is still here (and let’s face it, would you rather have Chills than Marvin?). His minutes would be limited anyway, nothing like what he used to get. Why? Because Flip is now used as the backup pg and sg, a role that Chills used to play in addition to backup SF. I’d take him instead of Evans, though. Taller, better defender and hustler all the way around.

As for who we pick in the draft, I don’t see many actual “bigs” falling to us. Dajuan Blair MIGHT. He’s a back-up PF who might turn into a Jason Maxiell, or he might not. BJ Mullens is a popular idea at the moment, but I don’t really see him falling to us. As ARIOSE says, if eighteen other teams pass on a 7-footer like that, you have to really wonder why. I know he didn’t have a great year, and he’s already heading for the pros. Might not have been such a great idea, but even then, will he really fall to #19? If he does, Sund would probably be tickled pink.

Then again, did Sund not say that he was just fine with Horford as a center in this league? Either he was full of it when he said something to that effect, or he believes it. If he believes it, then Mullens fits only as a backup, not a starter, as he is a center, not a PF. Who knows. Truthfully, I think Acie is outta here, and we will replace him with somebody like Maynor or Teague, if they fall to us. Otherwise, we’re drafting a backup, if we keep the pick at all.

Again, Mullens is considered a raw prospect. We have some of those already, don’t we? How much are THEY playing? Do we have what it takes to develop a guy like Mullens? I hear plenty about him having the “potential, tools, blah blah blah.” Why didn’t he excel in college? Just asking, as anybody who insists on drafting him must surely have a good reason for doing so.

…not that we expect that from Sund, who has drafted more than one big man who didn’t pan out…

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Niremetal,

Al”right”ty then. Glad we got that all cleared up. So, we have no “rights” to a guy we spent a lottery pick on, except to match any offer sheet he gets from another team when he returns to the NBA. Wow, that’s incredible asset management. My guess is that if he gets an offer from a team, we won’t match it. Not when we have the Mo Evanses of the world available…Got any MORE good news?

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http://www.hoopsworld.com/video/index.asp?mm_file_id=1564&play_clip=Y

Hoopsworld checks in with Austin Daye….

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I agree that whomever we get in the draft won’t be a big part of the rotation, most likely. But draft picks basically come down to two categories in my mind: useable and tradeable. If you aren’t drafting a guy for use on your own roster, you probably should be drafting a guy who is a good trading piece.

What you don’t want to do is completely lose use of that asset, no matter how small. Doing that with lottery picks is worse, but any kind of asset loss is not a trend you want to get into.

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Sir Links a Lot strikes again!

We should be in that race, Ariose. Report was that Sund was trying to close a deal like that before the deadline this past season, or something to that effect. I see us getting Kaman rather than Camby. Camby is cheaper and healthier, and the Clips are trying to unload contracts.

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Ariose, I had to LOL at the idea of the Clips trading for Speedy for “health insurance” for Davis.

Dude has played what 45 games in three seasons? Less than Davis, I’m fairly sure.

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O’Brien,

There’s no way Horford comes off the bench. That guy is a starter, period. What we’d be looking at with a guy like Camby or Kaman, is most likely 25 mpg off the bench as our premiere back-up big. He wouldn’t just be a backup, he’d also be a guy who would play along with Horford in the post.

If a guy like that starts, either Josh has moved over to SF, or he’s traded out of here, because he’s not going to the bench either.

And as you allude to, that probably means Zaza isn’t here, either. Woody isn’t keen on playing more than one big off the bench. His idea of a bench is one “lead” guard, one big, and one sg/sf. 8 man rotation. That’s it…

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O’brien,

Agreed on all fronts.

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Everyone understands that Bibby won’t be making close to $14M under his new contract, right? I mean, people need to get over the idea that Bibby will be “too expensive.” I honestly would be shocked if any team signed him for more than the full mid-level. As long as the Hawks offer him the full mid-level plus $1, we’ll re-sign him. That’s probably ~$5.8M. At that price, would anyone here seriously suggest we just let him walk?

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My bad. I meant “niremetal”

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niremental,

I believe we can improve our team by not resigning Bibby. These are my thoughts:
1. Offer # 19 pick, Acie and Speedy for the #2 or #3 pick.
2. Draft Thabeet with the pick for a back up 5 man.
3. Use Bibby and Solo’s money (16M) to sign Sessions @ PG, resign Flip, & resign Marvin.
4. Trade Josh S. & Morris for Bosh.
5. Sign & trade Childress for a veteran 2-3 scorer. Maybe Jarvis Hayes.
6. Resign Zaza.

Now you look like this:
PG-Sessions, Flip
SG-JJ, Evans
SF-Marvin, J. Hayes
PF-Horford, Bosh
C-Bosh, Zaza, Thabeet

That’s 10 players that can contribute. I know Coach Woodson only plays 8 players, but he would have to play 9 with this roster. Childress will not play for the Hawks because he will not be able to start. So, trade him to a team that he will be able to compete for a starting position. That will encourage him to come back.
By doing this we have lost Bibby, J. Smith, Speedy, Acie, Childress, Morris and Solo. Only two of these 2 of these 7 players contributed this past season. But, we have added Bosh, Sessions,J. Hayes, & Thabeet. All 4 of these players can contribute. I believe this makes the Hawks a much better team with much more depth! What do you think?

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Ray,

To reply to one post from awhile ago…I don’t think it’s a matter of asset management. The only way we could have avoided being in this situation with Childress is if we’d re-signed him. Sund made the judgment that Chill wasn’t worth $7.5M/yr, which is what it would have taken to re-sign him and keep him in the states, and I don’t think he was wrong (considering that we spent $4M on Mo and Flip and came out better for it). I just don’t see how Sund could or should have handled it differently. Like all first round picks, Chill was going to be a restricted free agent unless we re-signed him. So unless you think we should have ponied up the dough to keep him here (which probably would have meant saying goodbye to Flip, Mo, and now Marvin), I don’t think it was a case of bad asset management. Just another day in the life of the crazy world of the NBA free agent market.

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ok, well I guess my long winded comment isn’t going to be posted for some unknown reason.

I’d like to say:

Please allow me to join the Fire Woodson! crowd.

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Not extending Coach Woodson also sends a muddled message to the current players as well as potential players. “Is this the guy”? “Why should I listen to him, he’s on his way out?” Free agents are going to see the money, but they are also going to see a coach not fully supported.

Leaving coaches twisting in the wind rarely works. Other than Lovie Smith of the Chicago Bears, I can’t think of more than 1-2 situations where this works out well for the team.

Is Woodson going to change now? What is it that is keeping him from being extended that isn’t going

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Go get Avery Johnson or whoever and stop fiddling around. If you don’t want a guy after his best season, you don’t want him. Why waste the players time and risk losing games you may not have to lose and which could cost you the playoffs or playoff position?

A new coach is better position to win if he has a full camp to institute his system. Coming in after the team is in a hole, going the interim route is not the optimal way. Also, wouldn’t it be better to have that new guy’s input now with these critical decisions and the draft coming up rather than later, after the drama of watching the previous coach try to do his job “on the hot seat”?

Firing Woodson next season, one year removed from the most successful season in a decade, is not going to be a better PR move than firing him now. The same people who will bemoan his firing now are going to be the same ones that say he deserved another chance.

For the good of the team, Mike Woodson should be fired now…with the quickness!

Again, sorry for reposting in pieces like this, it wouldn’t go through otherwise.

Go Hawks!!

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niremetal,

You can accuse me of a lot of things, even though I don’t smoke anything. I might be crazy, a dreamer, even stupid at times, but please don’t accuse me of being a Bulldawg fan!

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niremetal, I was under the assumption that if we let Bibby go (thereby renouncing his $15 mil salary), we would be under the cap. Not to mention Zaza’s $4 mil salary.

I agree that Jack would be easier to sign, because Indy is still paying TJ Ford $8 mil and Jamal Tinsley ($6.8 mil)too.

But considering that the Bucks will owe at least $48.3 million (last year’s numbers) to 5 players alone (plus escalating salaries, and not counting Villanueva who they also want back:

Ridnour $6.5 mil, Bogut $6.3 mil
Gadzuric $6.3 mil, Jefferson $13.2 mil
Redd $16 mil

How much are the Bucks really willing to go over the cap in this economy? (Although all this talk might be moot, because Woody has said he wants Bibby to retire a Hawk).

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doc,

maybe a new roommate?

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O’Brien,

The fact that Bibby’s $15M salary is coming off the books doesn’t mean that we get cap space equal to that amount, because we’re well over the cap right now. The salary cap for next year is likely to be around $58M. Right now, we have $41M in salary that is guaranteed to the seven players under contract for next year (JJ, Smoove, Speedy, Horford, Mo, Acie, and Morris). Assuming we make a qualifying offer to Marvin, that will put us at $48M. Assuming we also make a qualifying offer to Chill, that would put us around $53.5M. That means that even assuming that we DON’T re-sign Bibby, Zaza, Flip, Mario, Solo, Gardner, and Hunter, we would have only about $4.5M in cap space left. But if we re-sign any of those players or if we re-sign Marvin for more than $7M or if we re-sign Chill for more than $5.5M, that would obviously leave us with even less cap space.

In other words, assuming we make qualifying offers to Marvin and Chill, and sign any one of Flip/Bibby/Zaza, we have no cap space. (And we would be retarded to not make qualifying offers to both of them, because otherwise they both would become unrestricted free agents.). That means that for all practical purposes, we only have the mid-level exception to use in signing players.

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It’s up to tha Bibbster. He’s unrestricted so he can choose to take any offer he wants, regardless of the price. He might take less just to stay here.

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My God! The refs are STILL trying to give the Cavs the game. Great block by Howard, totally clean, but hey, it was the Chosen One.

Total B.S.

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agree sautee.

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fire woody

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Phil Jackson was asked if he was starting a team who would he take, Lebron or D. Howard? Phil said Howard, and the ESPN crew said no way! Lebron is a beast, dont get me wrong, but how often do you run across a big man with the athleticism of Howard? Thats a tough call, but I might have to go with Phil on this one. And did I mention, that he’s 7′0 and can touch the top of the backboard? He’s making Verajo and Ilgauskas look silly right now. And btw, Stan Van Gundy gets on my nerves. Just stop talking alreasdy. lol!!

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After last night’s game, I second Nate’s motion on Gortat,he could be the answer to a lot of questions for the Hawks. Did you see him block 2 of the chosen one’s shots?

However, Orlando would probably go to some lengths to keep him but if the money is right.. .

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So much fun to read about all the trades and picks and speculations on the blog, even though none of us has a narry say in who the Hawks eventually sign. Good job folks! Keep it coming.

Really like what Orlando is doing to Cleveland right now. Orlando could easily be up 3-0 while Denver should have a 3-0 lead over the Lakers too. Any other team in the finals but LA, please.

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I’ll just make it real simple. We ARE GOING to make qualifying offers to Marvin and Chill. So just get it out of your head that we will renounce either. Once we do that, any sign-and-trade would necessarily involve taking back as much salary as we trade away. The mid-level exception is automatically added to our cap number unless we renounce our right to use it (which would be stupid because the mid-level is ~$5.8M, so why would we give up a $5.8M exception to get $4.5M in cap room?). That means that we will be OVER THE CAP for the purposes of signing free agents. PERIOD.

That means that the only money we can use to sign other teams’ free agents is our ~$5.8M mid-level exception. So signing Rasheed is out of the question. Signing Ramon Sessions is probably out of the question too since Milwaukee almost will certainly match up to the full mid-level to keep him.

We have $5.8M total to spend on free agents this summer. That’s it. Get used to it.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe2dNdplQ9I

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STRuSrkhqQI

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc2UKZ3ia7s

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LbKHROXNG0

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gXfJQ-U32E

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcGdDSBX5Us

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i am glad to know there was one individual that continued to read terrance moore as he was “not good”.

last year it was all about give them time now i guess kirknga you have already chosen to disclaim all that goes forward this summer before it even starts? seems to have set the expectation bar low. we all know woody seems to coach better with his back against the wall, so it should be in the teams best interest that woody continue to hang on a limb. woody has already performed well as a lame duck coach to get his team into the playoffs and win three games against the soon to be world champs. why should you expect anything less from him or his team next year. it is also a year that jj goes to get his new contract so he will be even more the warrior next year as he was this year. both of them have a lot to prove this year is my expectation and they will deliver along with our mvp josh.

nire you are killing me with your dire forecasts of financial strength. is everyone else as strapped as we seem to be?

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If we don’t resign Chills or if we trade him……whatever, we should sign Austin Daye Regardless. His shot is Peja-smooth and the guy is 6′11. I thinkhe will be there when we draft.

I expect a lot more ppl to contribute next season or Woody is toast.

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Doc,

It’s not a matter of financial strength. It’s a matter of cap space. And yes, the vast majority of other teams have little-to-no cap flexibility this summer, same as us. In fact, we are going into next year with one of the lowest guaranteed payrolls, since we only have 7 guys under contract (JJ, Smoove, Speedy, Horford, Mo, Acie, and Morris). Unfortunately, we have $41M tied up in just those 7 guys ($26 in Smoove and JJ alone) and another $12.5 earmarked for the qualifying offers we’ll need to make to keep Marvin and Chill from becoming unrestricted free agents.

And ironically, as I said, that still gives us more cap flexibility than most, since most teams have $60M or more in guaranteed salaries for next year. The only teams that are going into the offseason with enough cap space to make signings for more than the mid-level exception are Detroit, Memphis, Minnesota (and they only have ~$8M to play with), New Jersey (same), Oklahoma City, and Toronto. So we’re in the same boat as the 23 other teams, who will have to figure out a way to make it work through the draft, the mid-level exception, minimum salary contracts, and cap-neutral trades.

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We will be fine as long as we can either trade sppedy or find someone willing to take on a salary dump for a second round pickor something like that.

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Marvin ain’t a starter but Hansborough is? Ok…

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With so few teams under the cap and having only the mid-level exception, I wonder what kind of movement of free agents will we see? And at what price? I guess some teams will be willing to go over the cap (but not over the luxury tax).

Does anyone have any news on the status of the ownership feud?

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The last player that played for the hawks who could attack the glass was John Drew.

Uh…Kevin Willis? Dikembe Mutombo? And Horford has averaged 9.7 and 9.3 in each of his first two seasons despite playing out of position. Sheesh.

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niremetal,

I do realize that yes, that our cap space is tied up in relation to maintaining rights to Chills and Marvin, but if the Hawks do decide to go in a direction, both could easily be renounced, only if it meant signing a big time free agent player. Actually I think Marvin is an asset worth keeping, he has a the ability to drive and get to the free throw line that is beneficial to this team. I tend to believe that Sund will be conservative,but might make at least 1 key acquistion this summer. I get the feeling that Chillz talents isnt quite viewed in the same way. As much as I like him, Mo Evans and Flip did a good job of replacing him at a cost of only 4 million. Flip will be due a raise, but still the combination of paying those 2 will be at least pretty close to what Chillz is looking for.

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Melvin,

Actually, I think we should set our sights on a different Andersen – the one who’s playing tonight in Denver. If we could get him for the full mid-level and bring everyone else + Chill back, I’d say that’s a good day’s work. But I’m pretty sure that the Nuggets will match up to the full mid-level, since they’re not in luxury tax land yet.

Otherwise, your plan sounds as good as any. I’d just throw in “sign a defensive-minded PF or C” to go along with that, since all the scouting reports say that David Andersen doesn’t play D.

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Does Kenyon look like Josh standing at the top of the key on offense or what??? No jumpshot (probably worst than Josh) and extremely athletic. I said it before, the Hawks are very similiar to the Nuggets…

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This blog has turned communist. Everytime I post a Fire Woody they erase it. What happened to freedom of speak around hear?

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Yes, Clyde- they really need to sure up the freedom of speak around here.

Amember me?

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Niremetal,

“They are full of slashers and guys who can finish in traffic (although that obviously isn’t to say they can shoot well), while our only player who scores most of his points off drives to the basket is Marvin.”

How does Josh average 17ppg? He surely does not make any jumpshots? Marvin scores most of his points off of drives to the basket? Sometimes I wonder to you actually watch the games. Melvin I agree with your comparison, we should play a style similar to Denver. We do have similar athletes, and should push the pace every chance we get. We all know that Woody will not change his style of play, so I guess we are sstuck with what we have.

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Check out this Guy Lester Hudson’s stats. He might be Flip Murray 2.0….Better Shooter Though.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Lester-Hudson-5065/

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This is my next iteration on what the HAWKS should do this off-season.

1) Wait and match any offer to Marvin below 9M
2) Resign Bibby (7M), Flip (4M), and Solo (1.5M)
3) Let Zaza walk (Hate to say that)
4) Draft BJ Mullen (if possible)
5) do a Sign and Trade with Denver – Speedy(5M) + Acie(2M) for Klieza(6M)
6) do a Sign and Trade with the Bucks – Evans(2M) for Sessions (1.7M)

Starters (same)

PG – Bibby
SG – JJ
SF – Marvin
PF – Smith
C – Horford

Bench
PG – Sessions
SG – Flip
SF – Klieza
PF – Solo
C – Mullen

This does nothing for the starters and if Mullen can’t play everything falls apart, but this leaves room to extend JJ and Horford. It also leaves a little room to give Marvin a bigger contract if he improves again next year. It also forces Woody to develop Solo and Morris, along with giving him a more veteran backup PG and giving the team another scorer off the bench in Klieza. (Denver doesn’t need him now)

Nire, Manny I hope my Sign and Trades are realistic, Klieza and Sessions are restricted FA’s according to the sites I’ve looked at.

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Starting in June, “Jim Rome is Burning“ will be replaced by ”Joe Johnson is Tired.“ If the ratings are high enough, we’re planning to produce ”Mike Woodson is Fired,“ but don’t get your hopes up.

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Kirkinga,

Very interesting point of view, and I can’t argue with much of it. Regardless if I wanted to or not, it was very well stated. I’ve always thought that GMs are guys that will come in and act like (and say) that they don’t want to “rock the boat.” But in reality, they always want to make the little world they preside over in their own image. I’ve yet to see one that didn’t.

I agree that this is more about what you want out of Woody (or any coach of the GM’s choosing) than it is about what he deserves. I believe that Woody gets both ends of the spectrum: not enough credit for what he’s done from some, and too much credit from others. And that has nothing to do with anything, of course.

Let me say this, though: all we have is one report of one series of meetings, wherein Woody has not been extended, nor has it been discussed. On the one hand, I want to say that the summer is not over yet. On the other hand, all roster movements should really come after a decision is made on the coach. Of course, having said that, the guy is still under contract for another year. I definitely would not want this decision right now, but then again, I can probably tell you what mine would be. But, that’s because I speak lazily from the armchair, not the hot seat. And I don’t know what Sund knows.

I tend to stick with my guns on what I said about Woody, because I feel like improving year to year is not the same as winning year to year. But again, you are correct in that Sund should know by now if he wants the guy. Hmmmmm. Well, we shall see what the future brings. In the meantime, I wonder if he will do with this roster, and if it will be a portent of things to come.

Also, if Woody is as lame-duck as you say (and I’m not arguing either way), then what might Sund’s plans be for that position?

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Melvin, I’ve never seen Kenyon shoot a 3. Cant say that about Josh.

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K-Mart Shot and Made a 3pt FG in a game a few months ago twoards the end of the regular season…..the game was on TNT…

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Ray, should I call Mo, Chills Light

Might Chills stay in Greece and get better press coverage due to a new teammate?
http://www.talkbasket.net/news/pao-and-oly-are-the-first-to-talk-to-jeremy-tyler.html

kirknga, will you be teaming with Clyde to make one of those office novelties that looks like a guy balancing and wobbling on a base? I suspect it would look just like Woody. Not picking a side, but acknowledging your point about the deliberate moving GM, Sund-dial.

BWAF

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