All the right moves
The Hawks will have Mike Woodson back to start another season in the fall.
HAWKSVILLE - Hawks coach Mike Woodson is not going anywhere.
Hawks general manager Rick Sund made that clear on at least three different occasions Tuesday, on two different sports talk radio shows in the morning and later to me in his office.
Not that it was an issue or anything (laugh track goes here).
Woodson has one year remaining on his contract and Sund, while not confirming or denying any details pertaining to said contract, insisted that the Hawks would indeed “honor Woodson’s contract.”
(Last summer there was a legitimate question about Woodson’s future since his contract had expired. But when a coach signs a two-year deal, wins 47 games, a top four seed, and guides his team to the Eastern Conference semifinals in the first, questions about his job security, no matter what any of us here think of his performance, don’t register with the folks in charge of hiring and firing).
Read into that what you will. But it should be noted that several times throughout the nearly 60 minutes we spent talking, Sund praised Woodson and his staff numerous times for the job they did this season.
Sund’s making all the right moves leading up to the July 1 free agent frenzy. He hasn’t closed the door on anything (more below) and hasn’t thrown anyone or anything under the bus heading into the draft and what looks like it might be yet another long summer for the Hawks.
Those of you interested in continuing the debate about Woodson’s future are welcome to do so, but anyone else interested in moving off that topic and onto a few others, the rest of this blog is for you:
AFTER ALL, IT IS DRAFT LOTTERY NIGHT around the rest of the NBA.
And after years of being a major player in the lottery, the Hawks are on the outside looking in for the second straight year (which is a good thing if you’ve also made the playoffs for the second straight year).
Blake Griffin knows that all the ping pong balls in the lottery are pointing toward him as the No. 1 pick!
The Blake Griffin sweepstakes (win at your own peril) are almost over for those lonely teams like Sacramento, Washington and the Los Angeles Clippers – the three teams with best statistical odds of snagging the top pick in what doesn’t have the makings of anything other than a mediocre (at best) draft.
There’s no doubt Griffin is the big prize. But outside of the Oklahoma superstar power forward (and Connecticut center Hasheem Thabeet, Spanish point guard Ricky Rubio and Smyrna native and Arizona star big man Jordan Hill), there’s a consensus that teams will do a whole lot of reaching for impact players in this draft.
“This is basically a two-man draft and Rubio,” a wise Eastern Conference executive told me today. “It’s Griffin and Thabeet and you have to figure out where Rubio fits in there, too.”
So where does that leave a team like the Hawks with the 19th pick (in a draft that is already light on big men and point guards)?
Basically in limbo.
Because if they hold on to their pick and wait and see what shakes out of the lottery and down into their hands, the best they can hope for is the proposition of choosing between the best player available and and someone who strictly fills a need (as opposed to an elite talent at a position that fills a need).
That’s if they hold on to the pick and don’t package it with another asset and move them for something they need more than a rookie swingman (again, you have to figure the best point guards and big men will be gone by 19) or project at another position.
“What they’ve got to do is find a player at 19 that makes the coaching staff play him every night,” that wise Eastern Conference exec told me.
I couldn’t agree more.
The last three players chosen at 19 in the draft:
Cleveland (and Marietta’s own) J.J. Hickson in 2008, Washington and (Atlanta’s own) Javaris Crittenton in 2007 and Toronto’s Quincy Douby in 2006.
Not one of them started a single game during his rookie season.
So if we go on recent history alone, the chances of the Hawks finding anything more than a rotation player at 19 are pretty slim. And in a weak draft, even that might be a stretch.
THAT’S WHY I CAN’T IMAGINE THE HAWKS ARE BANKING ON THEIR DRAFT PICK MAKING – OR BREAKING – THEIR SUMMER, as has been the case in years past.
You can’t with that sort of empirical data as your guide.
Besides, the Hawks have far more pressing issues in free agency, where they’ll have to deal with what Sund referred to as “moving pieces.”
The Hawks have more of those free agent pieces – Mike Bibby, Zaza Pachulia, Flip Murray, Solomon Jones and Marvin Williams (the only one of the bunch that’s restricted, as is Josh Childress, whose rights the Hawks still retain while he is living and working in Greece) – than any team likes.
A big summer for the Hawks could get even bigger if Josh Childress finds his way home from Greece! The Hawks still hold his rights while he's living and working overseas.
Tough choices will have to be made. And anyone not invested for the long run (don’t expect this process to be resolved quickly) is probably in for a tough summer.
I don’t suspect that Sund will be rushed into any deals. What with the tightening of belts all around the league, teams won’t be so quick to spend as freely as they have been in the past.
The free agent marketplace is sure to be constipated, just like all the other markets have been since the global recession began (no, the NBA is not immune).
That might actually work out well for the Hawks, if their quest is to keep the core of this season’s roster together as best they can. And from all indications, that’s exactly what their aim is this summer.
IN TODAY’S FINALE ODE TO THE NBA SUMMER, it seemed only fitting that I pass along yet another pertinent link to a home run story from my main man Steve Aschburner of si.com.
For all the bellyaching folks do about coaches and players (and officials, and beat writers and just about everything else), you at least know when you’ve got a good or a bad one.
But as the elder statesman points out, a good GM is really hard to find.
Here’s a taste:
“Hiring an NBA coach is like hiring a tax accountant: By the middle of April each year, you know exactly where you stand. Hiring an NBA general manager is more like hiring a financial advisor: He takes control of your entire portfolio, makes decisions for some distant horizon and assures you during the bumpy times that the plan is sound, that time and patience are your friends and, by the way, that past performance is no guarantee of future results.
And every once in a while, a franchise ends up flipping its keys to the basketball equivalent of Bernie Madoff.”
Make sure you read the rest!
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484 comments Add your comment
Ariose
May 23rd, 2009
6:47 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwposMephTM
Yup, by the end of workouts, budinger will move up. We should take Teauge or Mills, sign Rasheed and Look for Danny Green or Robert Dozier in the Second Round.
Hey, wasn’t Tyrese Rice from Boston College a Senior?
Ariose
May 23rd, 2009
6:49 pm
Not Budinger lol. I meant Mullens will move up heh…
Simpdawg
May 23rd, 2009
8:06 pm
I think the Hawks need to make a draft day trade with the Dallas Mavericks by trading Marvin Williams for their 22nd pick. I would use the 19th pick to acquire Tyler Hansbrough or the best point guard available and pick DeJuan Blair with the 22nd pick. I would resign Mike Bibby, Flip Murray, Zaza Pachulia and Josh Childress, acquire David Andersen for insurance if Zaza Pachulia decides to sign elsewhere, waive or trade Speedy Claxton.
The new roster would look something like this
PG- Bibby/Flip/Drafted Pg
SG- Joe Johnson/ Maurice Evans
SF- Josh Childress/Tyler Hansbrough
PF- Josh Smith/ DeJuan Blair
C – Al Horford/ David Andersen or Zaza Pachulia
Simpdawg
May 23rd, 2009
8:16 pm
I think the Hawks need to make a draft day trade with the Dallas Mavericks by trading Marvin Williams for their 22nd pick. I would use the 19th pick to acquire DeJuan Blair or the best point guard available and pick Tyler Hansbrough with the 22nd pick. I would resign Mike Bibby, Flip Murray, Zaza Pachulia and Josh Childress, acquire David Andersen for insurance if Zaza Pachulia decides to sign elsewhere, waive or trade Speedy Claxton.
The new roster would look something like this
PG- Bibby/Flip/Law or Drafted Pg
SG- Joe Johnson/ Maurice Evans
SF- Josh Childress/Tyler Hansbrough
PF- Josh Smith/ DeJuan Blair
C – Al Horford/ David Andersen or Zaza Pachulia
doc
May 23rd, 2009
9:00 pm
samuel i used to love march madness, it is ho-hum in comparison to the forty in forty concept. i keep asking myself, what am i still doing awake until there is another finish like the last few nights.
umm also dont fight it….. GEORGE KARL=MVP
Hoops
May 23rd, 2009
9:08 pm
Simpdawg,
I thought Marvin was a RFA. If so, I don’t think we can trade him until after July 1 and then we could sign & trade with another team. If Coach Woodson is not going to play Acie Law, I would like to see us package Acie and our 19th pick for the 2nd or 3rd draft pick. We could throw in Speedy if we had to. We could get Thabeet or Rubio with either one of those picks. Then, after July 1, see if we could trade Marvin and the rights to Childress (if he decides to come back) for a Big if we don’t draft Thabeet.
niremetal
May 23rd, 2009
9:50 pm
Hoops is right on one front. We can’t trade Marvin. He’s a free agent. The only thing we can do is sign-and-trade him (like we did with Harrington) or match another team’s offer sheet for him (like we did with Smoove). As an aside, even if we could trade Marvin before the draft, we’d be insane to give him up for just a late first rounder. Hell, in this draft, we’d be insane to give him up for anything other than one of the top 2 picks. As for a “Big,” I’d rather see us trade Smoove for a big than Marvin, because Smoove will never, ever, ever be a small forward.
But the same applies to Childress – we don’t have “rights” to him. He’s just a restricted free agent, same as Marvin. Exact same rules apply. We don’t have any rights to trade.
O'brien
May 23rd, 2009
10:24 pm
I wonder if Mark Jackson would be interested in becoming an assistant coach for the Hawks? As a former PG (I think he is top 5 in assists), and a very experienced NBA analyst, he might be able to help Woody come up with an offensive system, and maybe he could work with Bibby and Acie (or whoever our PG’s might be). He has been considered for the Knicks Head coaching job.
Would Woody be interested? Would Mark be interested? Would he be a good fit? This would give Mark some experience, because he has no head coaching experience at all, and he would probably like to be a head coach some day.
I’m watching the Lakers/Nuggets game, and one thing I like about the Nuggets. They are not giving up easy layups, and they foul you hard. Unlike the Hawks who give up a lot of layups/dunks.
Samuel
May 23rd, 2009
10:57 pm
Yea Doc,
This stuff is better than sex. Not!!!
Samuel
May 23rd, 2009
11:19 pm
Black Mamba!!!!
Samuel
May 23rd, 2009
11:25 pm
Doc,
Can’t your boy Karl draw up a better inbounds play? Two games in a row. My Gosh!
Melvin
May 23rd, 2009
11:30 pm
There was no blue light special tonight at KMart… Will Kenyon show up for Game 4 or hide behind his momma….
doc
May 23rd, 2009
11:32 pm
ok, samuel i think i know the answer to this one … like woody=coy, it is about the players executing the plan, right? i cant remember where i saw that one but it sounds like it fits, and yup NOT, but what am i up doing watching at this time of night?!
kind of anti-climactic game being a “blow-out” in the end, the last 30 seconds at least.
doc
May 23rd, 2009
11:33 pm
of course that is “not” executing the plan.
O'brien
May 23rd, 2009
11:42 pm
Who would you rather have? Marvin Williams, or Trevor Ariza?
From the way Ariza is playing, I would take him (at the ripe old age of 23). And he only made $3.1 mil this season. Is he available? (Even if he is, he’s a UCLA guy, so the Lakers will probably keep him and let Odom go, but still, he’s been impressive. And you can’t go by just the numbers).
Melvin
May 24th, 2009
12:04 am
Obrien,
Keep in mind that Ariza is the 4th or 5th scoring option on that team behind Kobe, Gasol, Odom and Bynum. So out of the five players who is least likely to see a double team???
niremetal
May 24th, 2009
12:12 am
Melvin’s got it nailed. And the “defensive play” on the inbounds pass tonight was just a horrible inbounds pass. K-Mart threw it behind and above Anthony…hell, Bibby coulda picked off that pass. Ariza is one of those guys who looks great because he’s surrounded by great players. It’s the same reason that Michael Finley and Brent Barry (and now Roger Mason) occasionally put up 20-point performances on the Spurs.
niremetal
May 24th, 2009
12:23 am
That actually is a topic that I kept meaning to write about – for heaven’s sake, DON’T start calling for the Hawks to sign every guy who plays halfway decent in the conference finals. That’s how you end up spending $25M on James Posey or $32M on Luc Longley.
And, lest we forget, a similar line of reasoning (mine the underlings of the guys who win it all) is how we ended up with Woody as our head coach.
Simpdawg
May 24th, 2009
1:00 am
I would rather draft a player like DeJuan Blair over resigning Marvin Williams. I just think with Marvin on the roster, the Hawks are too much of a finesse (soft!!) team. If you noticed in the playoffs the Hawks were out hustled and out worked by players like Udonis Haslem, Joel Anthony (who?) and Anderson Varejao. The Hawks need more players to help Al Horford and Josh Smith attack the glass. I really think DeJuan Blair will be a Paul Millsap like player. I would use the 2nd round pick to draft Garret Siler from Augusta State.
Simpdawg
May 24th, 2009
1:05 am
The Hawks definitely don’t need to draft Jeff Teague. They already have Acie Law.
darrell starks
May 24th, 2009
5:55 am
I have always said that if your going to be and elite team that you have to either have a top 5 super star or a at least 2 or 3 stars on your team to even have a chance to win a nba title period and looking at the hawks we have 1 star who is not the type of player who wants to leads his team joe is a coplement player to a another star and we dont have that player.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hms
May 24th, 2009
12:08 pm
You don’t pass up legit 7 footers with that much upside if they’re there at #19, “clown” or no.
That’s how Sund thinks. But he isn’t coaching the Hawks.
Mullens has skills, athleticism, and all the other “tools” a good big man needs. The only question is whether he can marry the skill with effort and awareness to put it together.
Not so quick. This could turn out like Acie Law or Boris Diaw. Which means there is an argument about whether a guy like Mullens actually has the talent or not, or whether Mike Woodson is under-developing him. Potential and upside only mean so much here. If the player has anybody that is serviceable in front of him, he will get little or no playing time unless he can prove he is better than his teammates at the same position. Picking talent and potential works on teams where the coaches actually want to and know how to work with that potential. Pick somebody with a finished talent that only needs some polish. This is no place for projects.
niremetal
May 24th, 2009
12:28 pm
Pinafore (sorry, couldn’t resist),
If there were a “finished talent that only needs some polish” who was going to be available at 19, I’d agree. But who would that be? Is there a guy available at 19 who 1) can contribute right away; 2) doesn’t play at SG/SF, where we already have a glut; and 3) is someone Woody would play? I don’t see it. If I’m wrong, draft that guy. If I’m right, get the 7 foot-tall project and wait for Woody to get fired.
Big Ray
May 24th, 2009
12:42 pm
Niremetal,
We do have rights to Childress. NBA rights. As in, until he’s an unrestricted free agent (in another year, I believe), he can’t come back from Europe to any other NBA team but the Hawks. Those are the rights we have, for what it’s worth. Not a whole lot, as we mis-managed the asset.
Interesting point of view:
“Ariza is one of those guys who looks great because he’s surrounded by great players. It’s the same reason that Michael Finley and Brent Barry (and now Roger Mason) occasionally put up 20-point performances on the Spurs.”
Odd, because Marvin shares the same seat on the boat as a guy like Ariza: both are consistently the 4th or 5th option on their teams. And guess what else? Marvin fits that “occasionally put up 20 points in a game” description as well. Hmmmmm. What to make of that?
Rod from College Park
May 24th, 2009
12:53 pm
O’brien
Trevor Ariza no doubt. Made that observation much earlier in the season, and was told by the establishment on this board that I was crazy. He is better than Marvin in every stage of his game except the mid range jump shot. That is the point about Marvin, he is easily replaceable. Marvin is our forth option also, and in no way compares to Ariza. Valid comparison, and very easy to determine who the better player is.
O'brien
May 24th, 2009
12:53 pm
Ray, I think you’re right. The Hawks own the rights to Chills this season. If he wants to come back to the NBA, he has to sign with the Hawks (or the Hawks can trade his rights). However, if Chills goes back to Greece for one more year, then next off-season he will be unrestricted, and the Hawks will get nothing. That is why I think although Sund does not value Chills as highly as some of us do, he needs to work something out this offseason. Sign him, or trade him.
For the 19th pick, can we honestly say there is anyone there who will get PT under Woody? Acie did get some minutes his rookie season, and so did Salim. But if we have Bibby and Flip back (and Acie still under contract), I dont think any PG drafted would get much PT. A big might get some PT depending on if ZaZa comes back to the Hawks or not.
Hms
May 24th, 2009
12:56 pm
“If there were a “finished talent that only needs some polish” who was going to be available at 19, I’d agree. But who would that be? Is there a guy available at 19 who 1) can contribute right away; 2) doesn’t play at SG/SF, where we already have a glut; and 3) is someone Woody would play? I don’t see it. If I’m wrong, draft that guy. If I’m right, get the 7 foot-tall project and wait for Woody to get fired.”
Jeff Teague is a better fit in my opinion. There will have to be a young point guard around to learn from Bibby whom Woodson loves, and Mr. Law is probably no longer that player. Jeff Teague can shoot and handle and basically do what Bibby does, which is what Woodson wants in his point guards obviously. If he is available he is a better pick than Mullens. But I suppose that is not a good pick, and a guy who is taller than but less experienced than Randolph Morris, Solomon Jones, and Othello Hunter is a better pick? And your solution is to just wait for Woodson to get fired? Somehow I don’t think being seven feet tall will be enough to get off the bench. It might be enough in college but not the nba. Last time talent, potential and all that stuff was the reason for the pick, the Hawks spent a number two pick on a guy who didn’t even start for his college team and is now barely the fourth highest scoring guy on our team. Waited four years for Woodson to get fired so the guy could automatically become better than ever. You can wait on Woodson losing his job and the seven footer becoming a great player. I would not hold my breath on either one or you will pass out.
niremetal
May 24th, 2009
1:13 pm
Ray,
We do have 1 “right” with respect to him – the right to match any other team’s offer sheet. But that’s it. But he CAN sign with another team if he wants. It’s not “Hawks or nothing.” There is nothing that stops him from signing an offer sheet with, say, the Grizzlies. If he does sign such an offer sheet, we can match it. But that’s all we have the power to do. He is in exactly the same position as Marvin vis a vis free agency – he’s a restricted free agent. Thus, we hold no tradeable rights to him.
Big Ray
May 24th, 2009
1:14 pm
O’Brien,
Yeah, I forgot to who posted the blog (I think it was Mark Bradley), but they said that Sund didn’t value Chills as highly as ownership did. Interesting, I thought. I agree with you though. Sund should try and make something work with his NBA rights, or something along those lines. However, it may not happen, as much of this will depend on what Childress wants to do (or where he wants to go), what interest other teams have in him, and what we can get out of it. Probably the first and second variables more than anything else. As you say, anything else means we let a lottery pick go for nothing…and that, my friend, is not good asset management, regardless of what you may think of the player.
I have a hard time seeing him come back to us, though. He won’t start for this team, particularly not if Marvin is still here (and let’s face it, would you rather have Chills than Marvin?). His minutes would be limited anyway, nothing like what he used to get. Why? Because Flip is now used as the backup pg and sg, a role that Chills used to play in addition to backup SF. I’d take him instead of Evans, though. Taller, better defender and hustler all the way around.
As for who we pick in the draft, I don’t see many actual “bigs” falling to us. Dajuan Blair MIGHT. He’s a back-up PF who might turn into a Jason Maxiell, or he might not. BJ Mullens is a popular idea at the moment, but I don’t really see him falling to us. As ARIOSE says, if eighteen other teams pass on a 7-footer like that, you have to really wonder why. I know he didn’t have a great year, and he’s already heading for the pros. Might not have been such a great idea, but even then, will he really fall to #19? If he does, Sund would probably be tickled pink.
Then again, did Sund not say that he was just fine with Horford as a center in this league? Either he was full of it when he said something to that effect, or he believes it. If he believes it, then Mullens fits only as a backup, not a starter, as he is a center, not a PF. Who knows. Truthfully, I think Acie is outta here, and we will replace him with somebody like Maynor or Teague, if they fall to us. Otherwise, we’re drafting a backup, if we keep the pick at all.
Again, Mullens is considered a raw prospect. We have some of those already, don’t we? How much are THEY playing? Do we have what it takes to develop a guy like Mullens? I hear plenty about him having the “potential, tools, blah blah blah.” Why didn’t he excel in college? Just asking, as anybody who insists on drafting him must surely have a good reason for doing so.
…not that we expect that from Sund, who has drafted more than one big man who didn’t pan out…
niremetal
May 24th, 2009
1:21 pm
Put another way, Childress was a restricted free agent with respect to the NBA when he signed with Olympiacos. He did not magically get transformed into a second round draft pick (which is the type of overseas player for whom we CAN trade rights) by signing with Olympiacos.
Right now, Chill is a restricted free agent. He will remain an RFA as long as we keep making qualifying offers to him. If we fail to make such an offer, he becomes unrestricted. But under no circumstances do we acquire exclusive/tradeable rights to him.
Here is one article that talks about this – http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3501488:
The Hawks would retain Childress’ NBA rights, and he would remain a restricted free agent, if they make a qualifying offer each year, Babby said. That would count against their salary cap, though. If they don’t, he’d become an unrestricted free agent.
In any case, I promise you that we have no “rights” in Childress any more than we do in Marvin. Thus, we have nothing to trade with respect to him unless it’s a sign-and-trade.
Big Ray
May 24th, 2009
1:33 pm
Niremetal,
Al”right”ty then. Glad we got that all cleared up. So, we have no “rights” to a guy we spent a lottery pick on, except to match any offer sheet he gets from another team when he returns to the NBA. Wow, that’s incredible asset management. My guess is that if he gets an offer from a team, we won’t match it. Not when we have the Mo Evanses of the world available…Got any MORE good news?
Ariose
May 24th, 2009
1:37 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXd_vHAoXIM
This Kid Austin Daye is serious. 6″11 SF/PF with a silky smooth touch, grat mobility and long arms which go hand in hand with his agressive defense. When Marvin wne’t down, we had no one who could stay with Lebron or hit open shots from the SF position(sorry Mo). This Daye kid is like a more mobile Lamarcus Aldridge. He plays in the Paint as well. I think if we draft him, and then take Dozier in the secong round,(no one else worth anything will be available after that…) we will have solved our LeBrick James problem…..and if Chills comes back…oh boy!
JJ, Chills, Marvin, Daye, Smoove-that’s a very fast athletic lineup that can run and shoot from outside. LeBron can use the Pick n’ Roll all he wants. It won’t help. And like I said, Day is a dead-eye shooter.
Then you got, Dozier and Solo coming off the bench…….allwe need is John calerpari’s dribblr-drive offense and we’d be set.
….oh, and sign sheed/zaza for more beef.
We can stick with Acie/Flip/Bibby that’s solid, they just have to be used properly based on the situation. Like what Phil Jackson does with Shannon Brown, Jordan Farmar, and Dereck Fisher.
….oh and Dozier shoots threes too at 6′10……big-time second round sleeper. Also if he is gone, then we might want to draft Tyrese Rice if he’s still on the board at that time.
Ariose
May 24th, 2009
1:43 pm
http://www.hoopsworld.com/video/index.asp?mm_file_id=1564&play_clip=Y
Hoopsworld checks in with Austin Daye….
O'brien
May 24th, 2009
1:48 pm
I dont think Chills wants to come back to the Hawks.
Ariose, the only way Daye gets any PT is unless Marvin gets injured, because JJ is going to play 39 minutes, and Mo Evans will pick up some slack at SG/SF. And even Dozier, I would be surprised if he gets much PT.
In my opinion, I dont see any of our draft picks getting much PT under Woody. Especially if we have a 8 man rotation already.
Big Ray
May 24th, 2009
1:48 pm
I agree that whomever we get in the draft won’t be a big part of the rotation, most likely. But draft picks basically come down to two categories in my mind: useable and tradeable. If you aren’t drafting a guy for use on your own roster, you probably should be drafting a guy who is a good trading piece.
What you don’t want to do is completely lose use of that asset, no matter how small. Doing that with lottery picks is worse, but any kind of asset loss is not a trend you want to get into.
Ariose
May 24th, 2009
1:50 pm
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=12751
Hoopsworld reorts that Atlanta is in the Caman/Camby sweepsteaks but not the frontrunners. Speedy+Cash(4-5Mill) should get the deal done. With Baron Davis ALWAYS being injured, LAC could use a veteran guard like speedy.
Big Ray
May 24th, 2009
1:54 pm
Sir Links a Lot strikes again!
We should be in that race, Ariose. Report was that Sund was trying to close a deal like that before the deadline this past season, or something to that effect. I see us getting Kaman rather than Camby. Camby is cheaper and healthier, and the Clips are trying to unload contracts.
Ariose
May 24th, 2009
2:05 pm
Ray, yeah I think it was Stephen A. Smith who reported that. Sekou, never confirmed that(maybe because we didn’t ask him lol) or even mentioned it, but I doubt Stephen A. would spout off without having a credible source.
Kaman has been Injury prone and Camby is Old but either way, it’s be happy. I’ll tell you this though, I’d much ather have smoove taking midrange jumpers than Camby lol. He like to float aroung the free-throw line looking for that shot occasionally….if he comes here, hopefully Woody will convince him otherwise hehehehe.
Sautee
May 24th, 2009
2:57 pm
Ariose, I had to LOL at the idea of the Clips trading for Speedy for “health insurance” for Davis.
Dude has played what 45 games in three seasons? Less than Davis, I’m fairly sure.
O'brien
May 24th, 2009
2:59 pm
I would prefer Camby because he only has 1 year left on his deal, and he’s more likely to stay healthy. But I’d be okay with Kaman too. Maybe the Clips would take Speedie and Acie (although they have Mardy Collins backing up Baron).
My question is, if we get Kaman or Camby, do they start at Center and we bring Horford off the bench? Or would Woody bring them off the bench? (If we trade for a center, I assume that means we would not resign Zaza. Maybe the Clips would be interested in ZaZa as their backup). Who starts, who goes to the bench?
Big Ray
May 24th, 2009
3:12 pm
O’Brien,
There’s no way Horford comes off the bench. That guy is a starter, period. What we’d be looking at with a guy like Camby or Kaman, is most likely 25 mpg off the bench as our premiere back-up big. He wouldn’t just be a backup, he’d also be a guy who would play along with Horford in the post.
If a guy like that starts, either Josh has moved over to SF, or he’s traded out of here, because he’s not going to the bench either.
And as you allude to, that probably means Zaza isn’t here, either. Woody isn’t keen on playing more than one big off the bench. His idea of a bench is one “lead” guard, one big, and one sg/sf. 8 man rotation. That’s it…
O'brien
May 24th, 2009
3:20 pm
Ray, I’d be okay with a healthy Kaman or Camby coming off the bench. Let Zaza go, but resign Solo.
And I hate Woody’s 8 man rotation. I wish he would play 9 consistently (and even 10 depending on matchups).
Big Ray
May 24th, 2009
3:55 pm
O’brien,
Agreed on all fronts.
KevinA
May 24th, 2009
4:07 pm
Bibby just makes to much money. We can get a vet for much less or a potential good pg sitting on the bench waiting his turn. We need to stick with this youth movement. Bring Chills back, Marvin, ZaZa, Acie and Solo. I don’t think we can do any better than 4th seed next year unless Sund is given an extra 12 million.
Next year we will do about the same. After next year Woody and JJ will be gone. To many jump shots. They will do it to themselves. After next year is when the real change will happen with JJ and Woody leaving. He has peaked just short of all star level. Only way we resign JJ is for 10 million – like Josh. Don’t feel sad – they are a fun team to watch. We have two more off seasons for Marvin,Josh, Al, Chills, Solo, West, ZaZa and the rest to improve.Lets work on Jump shots and post moves. Gain some weight.
I would trade draft for future draft pick.
JJ might be great off the bench. Playing against other teams 2nd unit he could tear it up. Start Chills at the 2. Of course he would end up playing at the end of the game. Playing 36 minutes a much better deal for JJ.
niremetal
May 24th, 2009
5:06 pm
Everyone understands that Bibby won’t be making close to $14M under his new contract, right? I mean, people need to get over the idea that Bibby will be “too expensive.” I honestly would be shocked if any team signed him for more than the full mid-level. As long as the Hawks offer him the full mid-level plus $1, we’ll re-sign him. That’s probably ~$5.8M. At that price, would anyone here seriously suggest we just let him walk?
O'brien
May 24th, 2009
5:23 pm
Niremental, even at $6 mil, that’s a tough choice for me. I like Bibby’s shotmaking and swagger, but he is a major defensive liability, and that has a trickle down effect:
1) It forces JJ to guard quick PG’s (more wear and tear on JJ).
2) Whoever Bibby is guarding can beat him and get in the paint and either draw a foul on one of our bigs, or get an assist to a shooter.
3) Plus at Bibby’s age, his skills are already on the decline
Would you take a Jarret Jack or Ramon Sessions for $4 mil?
O'brien
May 24th, 2009
5:25 pm
My bad. I meant “niremetal”
niremetal
May 24th, 2009
6:45 pm
O’brien,
First, Jack and Sessions will both get more than $4M. I would be shocked if either got less than the full mid-level. Teams overpay for even borderline-starter PGs, as the contracts given to Claxton, Hinrich, Ridnour, etc prove.
Second, it’s not apples and apples. Jack and Sessions aren’t our own free agents, and since we’re over the cap, we have only the amount of the mid-level exception to spend – but that mid-level is ALL we have to spend on ALL of our signings of other teams’ free agents. So that means if we spend the full mid-level on either of them, we won’t be able to sign any other non-Hawk free agent for more than the minimum salary. And since no quality player is willing to play at the minimum salary for a team that isn’t an established contender, that would straightjacket us.
Beyond that, Jack and Sessions are both restricted free agents, which means their current teams can match any offer for them. You can bet that the Bucks will match anything up to the full mid-level for Sessions, especially since they seem to think that he, and not Ridnour, is their PG of the future. The Pacers might not match for Jack since they already have Ford, but that doesn’t overcome the cap space/mid-level issue. On the other hand, our re-signing of Bibby would have no effect on our ability to sign other teams’ free agents, since Bibby is currently a Hawk. We could re-sign Bibby and still have ~$6M to play with to sign other teams’ free agents. We could use that “saved cap space” to add frontcourt depth (Chris Andersen, anyone?).
Hoops
May 24th, 2009
6:46 pm
niremental,
I believe we can improve our team by not resigning Bibby. These are my thoughts:
1. Offer # 19 pick, Acie and Speedy for the #2 or #3 pick.
2. Draft Thabeet with the pick for a back up 5 man.
3. Use Bibby and Solo’s money (16M) to sign Sessions @ PG, resign Flip, & resign Marvin.
4. Trade Josh S. & Morris for Bosh.
5. Sign & trade Childress for a veteran 2-3 scorer. Maybe Jarvis Hayes.
6. Resign Zaza.
Now you look like this:
PG-Sessions, Flip
SG-JJ, Evans
SF-Marvin, J. Hayes
PF-Horford, Bosh
C-Bosh, Zaza, Thabeet
That’s 10 players that can contribute. I know Coach Woodson only plays 8 players, but he would have to play 9 with this roster. Childress will not play for the Hawks because he will not be able to start. So, trade him to a team that he will be able to compete for a starting position. That will encourage him to come back.
By doing this we have lost Bibby, J. Smith, Speedy, Acie, Childress, Morris and Solo. Only two of these 2 of these 7 players contributed this past season. But, we have added Bosh, Sessions,J. Hayes, & Thabeet. All 4 of these players can contribute. I believe this makes the Hawks a much better team with much more depth! What do you think?
kirkinga
May 24th, 2009
6:55 pm
uh..forgot:
Go Hawks!!