No need for snap decisions
The only thing that rages more than Josh Smith's emotions is his over-the-top talent . The Hawks would be wise to find ways to help channel that emotion in a positive direction.
HAWKSVILLE - Raise your hand if you thought we’d all end up here.
Go ahead, raise it up high. Let the rest of us see you. I need to make sure we count the hands.
Good. Now that the roll call is over, it’s time to get down the serious business that will be retooling this Hawks roster for next season. In case you missed it, nearly half the roster is going to be diving into the free agent waters this summer.
That means there’s a chance that the Hawks team you saw on the floor in the Eastern Conference semifinals against Cleveland will be no more as of July 1, the date the free agent negotiating season kicks off. That also means that the ball switches from Mike Woodson, Joe Johnson, Mike Bibby and Josh Smith’s court to that of Hawks general manager Rick Sund.
And judging by his 30-plus year resume in the league, Sund is well aware that now is not the time for snap decisions. Those are the things, as my guy Jeff Schultz alluded to his in his column from Game 4 of the Cleveland series, that can implode a franchise. Sund needs to do what his predecessor did not after last year’s Game 7 loss to Boston, and that’s take a week or so to decompress from this experience before coming to any conclusions about this team.
(Injuries to both Al Horford and Marvin Williams complicate any postseason studies into their performances, so basically all you can go off of is their healthy regular season work.)
We, on the other hand, don’t have to wait for anything to start making our assessments of what we saw, what we liked and disliked and what we think needs to be done to improve for the future (a wise . We can dive right in, as I know you have been doing for days. So without further ado, here is one thing that can’t wait:
Since he’s the one player Hawks fans ride worse than any other, it’s only fitting that we address Josh Smith first. No fewer than a dozen people came up to me in the minutes after the game to insist that he was the reason the Hawks lost yet another game. He wasn’t locked in on defense, I was told, and he was the one giving up all the big shots, and he let Anderson Varejao work him on the boards the entire series and that’s ultimately what cost the Hawks.
I’ve written it before and I’ll write it again, once again Smith serves as the easy scapegoat for the Hawks’ larger problems (their paper-thin depth, their flawed offensive scheme the wordsmith Mark Bradley nailed in his recent column and their inability to get ball pressure on the ball at the outset of offensive possessions, just to name a few).
In addition to outscoring all the Hawks other starters (26 to 25) in Game 4, Smith led the Hawks in scoring (17.1), rebounds (7.5), blocks (1.5) and steals (1.1, he tied with Flip Murray) in 11 postseason games. He only shot 42 percent from the floor and a putrid 13 percent (2-for-15) from beyond the 3-point line. But he raised his dismal free throw shooting percentage from the regular season up to 72 percent during the playoffs.
The point is, for every deficiency he has (and five years into his career, Smith, like scores of other pros in the same situation, still has plenty) Smith has a matching skill that can’t be overlooked. His mission this summer, forget about the 3-point line and hone the post skills that few teams can deal with. Take a page out of the book of New Orleans Hornets forward David West and come back with a money 16-footer that makes teams pay for leaving you open on the wing.
I place as much of the responsibility for that happening on Smith as I do his employers. There has to be some sort of marriage of philosophies this summer to make sure that he comes back next season a more polished player and one that fulfills his role as the Hawks’ truly most dynamic player.
We’re going to toss Bibby’s name around quite a bit in the coming weeks, so let me start by insisting that you consider what the Hawks looked like before he showed up and then compare that to what they looked like in his 130 games in uniform. It was a different world, folks. So keep that in mind this summer as the Hawks start weighing their point guard possibilities – and they are endless, what with the free agent market, the draft and whatever sign-and-trade possibilities might be out there.
Bibby’s status as an unrestricted free agent means he’ll have suitors other than the Hawks capable of presenting him with the opportunity to play at least three or four more years (Bibby’s been around for 11 years but just made 31 today). “The Hawks can get someone that’s a better defender and better distributor at that position, but I don’t know that they’re going to get a better shot maker or a better fit for their
Hey Hawks, what are you going to do with Mike Bibby?
team,” a scout friend told me via email earlier today when I inquired about his assessment of Bibby’s situation with the Hawks. “There’s not a team in the league that doesn’t need a guy who’s going to knock down the big shots he does. And the funny thing is, for all the talk about his big salary this year ($15 million in the final year of his deal), you know you’re going to get him for half that or even less on this next deal. He’ll actually be a bargain on his next deal, compared to what he was.”
Bibby is and remains the biggest question mark of the Hawks’ free agents. If you keep him, his successor has to be located immediately and then groomed (what the Hawks did the past two years with Acie Law IV was anything but grooming him) to eventually take over the starting job. If you decide against keeping Bibby, you almost guarantee that you’ll have to locate your new starter via some sort of trade. Because there is little to no chance of finding a point guard ready to be pressed into immediate starting service in the June draft, not where the Hawks are picking (deep in the first round at either 19 or 20).
The Hawks could pull a fast one and snag their point guard of the future and Bibby’s immediate replacement all at once. But as an Eastern Conference executive explained to me Tuesday morning, they’ll have to find someone else’s “garbage” (it wasn’t garbage in the sense you might think, he meant a guy that someone deemed expendable) and make him their own – sort of like what Cleveland did with Delonte West, who has blossomed into one of the league’s top young attack guards (a point guard in size but whatever he wants to be because of his tenacity and fearlessness). Guys that fit that mold to me, and I think there are plenty, including former Georgia Tech star Jarrett Jack, Lakers backup Jordan Farmar (he’s under contract for the next two years and under siege by Shannon Brown), Milwaukee’s Ramon Sessions (unrestricted free agent and ready for prime time) and Portland’s Sergio Rodriguez (still under contract for another year but clearly expendable with Steve Blake and Jerryd Bayless on the roster). There are
Might former Georgia Tech star Jarrett Jack be in the Hawks' future plans at point guard? We'll find out this summer.
also veterans like Philly’s Andre Miller (unrestricted), Chicago’s Kirk Hinrich (hefty salary for the next three years but absolutely expendable with Derrick Rose at the helm and Ben Gordon an unrestricted free agent), Charlotte’s Raymond Felton (restricted) and Utah’s Ronnie Price (unrestricted).
Again, the Hawks’ options are limitless, especially when you consider that basically half the players on their own roster are free agents of one form or another. But make no mistake, figuring out what to do at point guard remains the Hawks’ highest priority.
And there are several reasons why – the first being their utter refusal to draft the right point guard year after year during the previous regime. The most important, however, is that point guard play in the NBA has become the equivalent of quarterback play in the NFL. Either you have a veteran hand capable of orchestrating almost any situation, a guy that can make everything run smoothly (Kurt Warner anyone) or you have the young phenom (the Falcons’ Matt Ryan comes to mind) that simply will not be denied. If you get caught between those two extremes, you’re gambling with your team’s future.
If you don’t believe quality point guard play can make the absolute difference between mediocre and championship worthy, you should spend a few minutes reading one of the best stories I’ve read about that very subject (courtesy of Tom Friend of ESPN’s Outside The Lines). Seriously, if you don’t do anything else, read this story from top to bottom to see how the right guy at the most important position on the floor (or field) can make all the difference in the world for a team … sort of like Bibby did for the Hawks the last year and a half.
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624 comments Add your comment
niremetal
May 15th, 2009
5:58 pm
“Woody showed that he had no role for Claxton. He treated him like Frank Burns. (How’s that for contextual blogging, niremetal.) Speedy made a statement by skipping his final team meeting.”
MannyT is now my hero.
O'brien
May 15th, 2009
5:59 pm
By the way, NBAdraft.net has the Hawks taking Jeff teague (PG from Wake Forest) with the 19th pick, and then taking PG Rodrigue Beaubois (PG from France) with the 49th pick. How much sense does that make?
By the way, Sekou, any updates about David Andersen and Cenk Akyol? Those are 2 second round picks that the Hawks have gotten nothing from. And then you add Salim and Solo, and clearly the Hawks just dont know how to draft (and develop) second round players.
niremetal
May 15th, 2009
6:12 pm
Cenk has his own website now:
http://www.cenkakyol41.com/
It’s all in Turkish and the videos are 3 years old. But hey – most of our players don’t have their own website.
Statistically, Andersen dropped off this year and Akyol was virtually invisible.
niremetal
May 15th, 2009
6:22 pm
This is from a year-old scouting report on Andersen:
Let’s start with the bad:
As far as weaknesses are concerned, you have to start with his defense, which is incredibly poor. He shows very little in the ways of fundamentals here, not being physical at all trying to deny his man space, showing average awareness defending the pick and roll, and looking pretty soft in general on this end of the floor. He’s not a shot-blocking threat at all, and just isn’t much of a presence in the paint in general, something that opposing teams seem to take advantage of if they have a strong back to the basket player they can throw the ball to. He’s also just an OK rebounder.
So he’s not our answer as far as getting a defensive big man, his 6′11 frame notwithstanding. We’d be better off bringing in someone like Okur. On the other hand…
Offensively, the impression that we’re looking at an NBA caliber big man only increases when evaluating with the terrific versatility that Andersen displays. We’re talking about an ambidextrous player who produces both in the low post as well as facing the basket, and can also do some things in between as well. Andersen has some raw back to the basket skills, being capable of backing his man down to a certain extent and finishing with a pretty jump-hook with either hand, or a phenomenal turnaround jumper. He has excellent touch here, but isn’t the toughest big man you’ll find around, and thus has problems finishing in traffic at times, especially when faced with contact.
Facing the basket is where Andersen looks more comfortable, as you can tell by the phenomenal percentage he shoots from behind the 3-point line, an astounding 61%. His mid-range jumper is also excellent—he’s very dangerous on the pick and pop–and if there was any doubt about his touch, consider that he shoots an amazing 91% from the free throw line. He can also put the ball on the floor, not showing the greatest first step, but just serving as another weapon he has at his disposal to keep the defense honest. He’s also an excellent passer, evidenced by his positive assist to turnover ratio. Generally speaking, he’s a mistake free player who seems to know his role on the floor and is very efficient on top of that.
Probably our best bet would be to find a team interested in him, and trade his rights as part of a package.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 15th, 2009
6:38 pm
Trading talented players because the mediocre coach doesn’t know how to use them is a terrible idea. I saw a post earlier that said Josh and Acie should be traded because Woody needs a team with veterans. Why the hell should management bend to Woody? The team is (hopefully) not designed around him. As the coach, it’s his job to put his team in a position to succeed by putting his players in a position to succeed. It’s not Josh’s or Acie’s (or anyone else’s) fault if he’s not capable of doing this.
Count me in among the people who firmly think Josh is a power forward. Moving him to SF would be a terrible idea — the fact that his jumper is bad is one reason, but maybe a more glaring reason is that he doesn’t have the handles to take people off the dribble. He belongs in either the high post or the low post, and PF is the position that will allow him to excel. I don’t think having Josh at PF and Al at C in the long run is necessarily a bad thing, but if it turns out the Hawks have a chance to upgrade their size inside by giving up one or the other I’d rather keep Josh and trade Al than move Al to PF and trade Josh. I just think Josh, being only six months older than Al, is much further along in his offensive development and much more versatile. But I definitely don’t think moving Josh to the 3 and Al to the 4 is a working solution.
O’Brien: I don’t think NBADraft.net figures in team needs until the lottery order is decided. Until then I think they just rank players by best player available.
Ariose: count me in among the people who think Salim can be an Eddie House-type for a good team if given the opportunity. I don’t think he’ll ever be a guy who warrants playing more than 15-20 minutes a game unless he seriously improves his defense and handles, but there are definitely worse backup guards than him on NBA rosters right now. If JJ Redick can start a playoff game, Salim can get some NBA minutes.
And while Acie continues to be a hot topic… Sekou, have you ever asked some of your scout friends what they think of him? Clearly many of us think he can be at least a good NBA point guard, whereas some others on this blog think he’s a scrub. What do the experts think?
HAWKS 4 Life
May 15th, 2009
6:51 pm
1. The Hakws Need A Center. I Say Go After Pryzbilla From The Blazers. He Isnt Going To Score A Bunch Of Points But He Will Add TOUGHNESS, And REBOUNDING to The Hawks!!!
2. SLide Horford To The 4 and Smith to the 3. YYYYYYYYY Do People Keep Saying Smith Needs A Jumpshot To Become A 3. Tashaun Prince Doenst Have The Best 3 Point Shot But The Pistons Still Won Championship!! We Can Run A Offense Where Smith Doesnt Have To Spread The Floor At All Time. He Needs To Work On His DRIBBLING. Then Maybe U Can ISO Him and Spread The Floor With Bibby And Johnson..
3. Johnson Played Too Many Minutes.. I Understand Y He Had A Bad Playoff Series.
4. NO WAY IN HELL DO U TRADE JOE JOHNSON. With One Second On The Clock Down One He Is The Only Player I Trust With The Ball. Without Him Who Do U Give It To?? Josh?? LOL HELL NO
5. Woody Has To Kno By Now That We Cant Switch On Every Pick And Roll. That IS THE REASON Y WERE NOT AN ELITE TEAM! People Keep Saying Its Our Offense But Its Really Our Defense!!
6. 2009 Lineup
Pg. Bibby
Sg. Joe
Sf. Josh
Pf. Horford
C. Pryzbilla Or Camby Or Bynum
Pg 2. AC
Sg 2. Flip (he is not a pg)
Sf 2. Marvin
Pf 2. Solo
C 2. Zaza
We Can Afford To Lose Mo And Childress’s Rights and Speedy For A Center!
jhan
May 15th, 2009
7:04 pm
A consistent jumpshot & a 3pt shot are totally different things. A SF should have a good jumpshot but doesn’t really have to be killer from 3pt land. Josh Smith has neither so moving him to full time SF seems like a very bad move to me.
If you want Josh on this team he really needs to play PF. He has pathetic handles & his jumpshot is not much better. He excels in the paint & moving towards the basket. That’s where he needs to stay.
I have to agree with Ando – choose 2 between Marvin, Josh & Al and get this team balanced. Whichever one you don’t want you trade him & whatever else you must to get a quality post player.
Lose Bibby & hopefully his salary slot will allow us to sign a long-term answer at PG & a high quality role player for the bench.
deb1820
May 15th, 2009
7:26 pm
It would be nice if the Hawks could get Javeel Mcgee, I also like Ryan Hollins, he will be a restricted free agent this summer. The Hawks need an athletic center (7 feet) and another scorer like Ben Gordon to come off the bench. I like Marvin, but he doesn’t have good foot work and he looks lost sometimes in the offense. I don’t know if that’s coaching or just Marvin. He has a nice jump shot, but when he drives the ball, his mechanics are way off.
If I could make the changes my team would look like this:
PG – Mike Bibby – 2 years 15 million
G – Joe Johnson
F – Josh Smith, if he works on his jump shot during the off season
PF – Al Horford – needs to work on post moves, nice if Karl Malone could teach him
C – Ryan Hollins
Bench –
PG – AC Law, Ben Gordon
G – Ben Gordon, Flip Murray
F – Marvin, Mo Evans
PF – Solomon, work on his offense
C – Zaza
bigdave
May 15th, 2009
8:00 pm
deb1820… im with you there sir…
Hollins and McGee are both young, long, athletic (jump out da gym) true centers… but i doubt neither of their respected franchises would part ways.. well, maybe Dallas might be intrigued by bringing Acie Law home… he would thrive with the Mavs…
I also would like to see a MONSTER like Brandon Bass added to our club…
Astro Joe
May 15th, 2009
8:10 pm
Could someone PLEASE tell me why the Wizards are trading a young, athletic and cheap center to a division rival? Please, anyone, please? Can we at least consider “what’s in it for the other team” while we’re entertaining these wild trade ideas? Or, if not, then let’s just trade RandMo for Dwight Howard and Acie for Chris Paul and we’re done.
Blast
May 15th, 2009
8:25 pm
Though we had been talking about the off season ever since Hawks got knocked out, Sekou surely threw a bone out there, and folks are biting like crazy!
So much crazy talk on the blog. Fans seems to want Hawks to get every player in the league, regardless of if those players want to play here, whether salaries match, if the NBA would approve the trades, or if the ASG can afford to pay all these guys! Lol! Slow your roll, folks!
Listen people. Remember last off season and all the speculations, one thing for sure. No way Sund is gonna let us know his plans. He’s just gonna do em. That’s been the ASG style. We might be in for a long wait, though Sekou said a move might be in the works right now.
I know this for a fact:
Woody will be back next year. The old time bloggers said it all. ASG operating on the cheap will not fire Woody (who has won more games every year he’s been here) and hire another coach and still have to pay Woody. Not in these sad economic times. Woody will ride out his contract. I don’t care much for his coaching style, his offensive scheme(s?) stinks, switching every play on defence worked in the regular season, but not in the playoffs. Still, Woody ain’t going nowhere next season. I just pray he improves as a coach.
Hawks will keep these players: Joe, Josh, Al, Zaza, Flip, and maybe Bibby for less money.
I do not believe Hawks need to trade Joe, Josh or Al to get better. I think they have enough assets to dangle instead. Speedy’s contract, Chills rights, Marvin. Bibby’s expiring contract will be huge, regardless if he returns. Folks are saying get a superstar like they grow on trees. Since there is none in the horizon, Hawks need to build a team that is deep at all positions, a team that scraps and fights. Check out the Rockets playing without Yao and Tracy.
Hawks needs to clear their bench of those deadbeat players that do not contribute. Hawks need to call Portland, who has so many big men they can’t play them all. I like the Marvin/Acie for Joel Przybilla trade, though I would prefer Marvin/Chills rights for Joel or Marvin/Speedy’s expiring. Don’t wanna give up on Acie yet. I doubt if Childress will return to the Hawks.
In closing, Hawks needs a big center badly. Known all season, but Cleveland series made it glaring. We need a point, whether Bibby stays or not. Hinrich would be nice if we could get him. If Hawks can get a good center, trade Marvin and sign someone like Kirk, then you can start Bibby, Hinrich at 2, Joe at 3, Josh at 4, and Horford comes off the bench to spell Josh and your 5. Your bench would be Horford, Zaza, Flip, Acie. Get rid of Morris, get rid of Speedy, get rid of Gardner and Hunter if you’re not gonna play them, and fill up your roster with enough quality players to go 10 deep or better. Though I like Mario, get rid of him too if he can’t buy a jumpshot. If Bibby walks or is not re-signed, Hawks have a lot of options out there with all that money.
mykhalc
May 15th, 2009
8:28 pm
JOSH’s release is just toooooooooooooo slow to play at the 3 for any extended amount of time. he never shoots his jumper when he is really bein’ contested. and since he doesn’t take full advantage of his strength, takin’ the ball to the rim, then one might as well say, play the position but don’t take the shots that come with the position…kinda like now…how the BRAINLESS ONE puts him out on the 3 pt line. at least that far away he has time to shoot it!!!! geeeeessshhh
as far as BIBBY…i’m a fan so i’d like to see him back. plus we loose his leadership and chemistry that ‘might’ not be so easily replaced. then ya got a not-so-happy sorta team leader in JOE po’ed ’cause his backcourt mate is not around!! BUT if BIBBY is not re-signed then first place i’d look is ANDRE MILLER!!! well actually first place i’d look is…FIRE WOODSON…PERIOD!!!
Rufus1
May 15th, 2009
8:38 pm
Player development in an essential part of a coaches responsibility…The primary way to aquire a superstar is to draft one. Teams seldom trade there superstars, so we have to draft and develop one.
We cannot keep Woodson, he destroys young players.
WOODSON MUST BE POLITELY SHOWN THE DOOR!!!!
Rufus1
May 15th, 2009
8:42 pm
Woodson will cost them more in tickets sales than his 2mil salary..
Astro Joe
May 15th, 2009
8:43 pm
doc, until we see the ASG actually buy out a contract, I think we have to assume RandMo will be back. So I think the ones who are under contract for sure are JJ, Josh, Horford, Evans, Acie, Speedy and RandMo. Marvin and Chill are RFAs. We own the rights to Andersen (and Akyol). Flip, Bibby, Zaza & Solo are UFAs along with Hunter, West and Gardner. And we have our 1st and 2nd round picks for the coming draft (and beyond). Again, plenty of assets for major and minor transactions.
Big Ray
May 15th, 2009
8:45 pm
Astro Joe,
One more thing. I really like your idea of trading RandMo for Howard. I’m not sure where we’ll get the drugs from. Maybe Peyote will work. I think that’s how the Louisiana Purchase happened anyway.
On a more serious note, we can’t have Sund (or his bosses) doing things like this again. Woody clearly didn’t see a purpose in playing guys like him, Gardner, Hunter, etc. West got a little burn. But hell, even Solo fell completely off the wagon after the first several games. I still don’t understand what happened there.
I don’t want to hear excuses about having to grab guys like RandMo because the other deals “just didn’t work out.” I know that’s how it happens a lot of times, but guess what? That’s what happens a lot when you mooooove tooooo slooooooow. If Sund is going to get good free agent pickups that will actually help this team (translation: guys that Woody will play regularly, and be effective), then he might want to get a move on, so he can send the requests to the league office shortly after the moratorium is up. We can’t play around. Or we’ll end up with a bench like we have now: unused, and you can take your pick as to why they are unused. With some of them, I think it’s obvious…
Astro Joe
May 15th, 2009
8:53 pm
Ray, I agree. At the same time, I don’t want to see Raef LaFrentz or Stromile Swft or some other vet who eiter can’t play because he can’t stay healthy (LaFrentz) or can’t play because he can’t play (Swift). I think we can only afford one vet/player coach type mentor (like Juwan Howard was for Charlotte). Beyond that, we need guys capable of 10+ minutes a game for at least 75 games in he season.
Sekou, what ever happened to your boy, Aaron Williams? Is he still in the league?
Big Ray
May 15th, 2009
8:54 pm
Jhan,
If you’re saying that Josh MUST stay at the PF position, then you are automatically either assuming that Al Horford is the guy we trade, or that he remains at center. In which case, we aren’t getting any bigger (unless of course you plan on getting us a 7-foot SF). So nothing has changed….
Not arguing, just saying.
Blast
May 15th, 2009
8:57 pm
Hawks needs tough, gritty players that will play hard all the time. Which is why I like Kirk, who also is a scorer. Right now we only have Zaza, and maybe Josh, while championship teams have tons of them. I do like Marvin for his ability to defend the leagues small forward, I just worry that he will be injury prone all his career, in which case he would be a liability, as he was in the playoffs this year.
The ASG can still put together a very good ball club without going over the cap. They just have to be smart about their drafts and trades. We all know you ain’t gonna win a title on the cheap. Orlando, LA, Cleveland, Denver, Boston are all paying through their noses for their success. But if LeBron is going to dominate the NBA for the next 2-5 years, then the best Hawks can hope for anyway is to put together a ball club that has the ability to advance deep into the East playoffs. By deep I mean a team that winning a 2nd round matchup is a given, a team folks actually expect to contend for the East crown.
So I think you keep the core that has gotten you so far, jettison the floatsam and debris, and improve your team.
The funny thing is, if the Hawks ever come out tops in the East, I can see them contending for a title because they’ve played teams like Lakers and Denver very well. Spurs are aging and injury prone, Houston two biggest stars cannot play a full season of basketball, Portland is still young though talented, Utah is up and down. Hawks biggest threats are in the conference they play in with powerhouses like Cavs, Celts, Magic, and possible re-emergence of Miami, Philly, even Detroit and Chicago, which is why I know the East will retain the trophy this year.
Go Hawks Go!
Big Ray
May 15th, 2009
8:59 pm
I think David Andersen is a guy you get if you lose Zaza to free agency. His offensive skills are better, but I doubt he’ll be an upgrade on defense, or in rebounding. In fact, he may not be as committed a rebounder as Zaza is.
So, that does not solve the issue of a rotational big who can man the pivot.
Astro Joe
May 15th, 2009
9:16 pm
Ray, you don’t have to address size issues with the starting line-up. We just need to add 1-2 bigs capable of playing 24+ minutes when called upon.
Big Ray
May 15th, 2009
9:18 pm
Blast,
” So I think you keep the core that has gotten you so far, jettison the floatsam and debris, and improve your team.”
Okay. So who exactly makes up that core that you are so unwilling to part with for any reason? Who are you counting as flotsam and debris? You’re right that Sund has to be smart about trades and free agents, especially to keep from going over the cap.
The cap will be lower this year, than it was last. Count on it. Last year we committed to $15 million for ONE pg, bringing our payroll to $67 million. I’m sure if we keep Bibby, we’ll be paying him less than that, but how much less is the question. With a lowered payroll, you’re still expecting to “improve the team.” I’d like to as well, but how to do this when we’re expected to have a lower payroll? We can talk about saving money on a new Bibby contract, but the payroll remains close to the same (and likely over the cap) if you pay what it takes to get guys worth having. That will make up for what Bibby is no longer making, leaving the payroll sky high.
I don’t know about you, but I’m expecting the lower payroll to be the only certain thing. I think this is how we ended up with the bench we have NOW, don’t you?
I’m saying all of this to illustrate just how possible, and possibly necessary it may be to trade one or two of the guys that is part of the regular playing rotation, in order to get better.
Of course, I could be wrong, and Sund could prove to be a genius, moving all of the guys that Woody doesn’t use, and getting great bench players that allow us to play 9 or 10 deep on the regular, all for bargain basement prices.
If he is, then we can all re-celebrate the acquisition of Sund, and how much better than Billy he is. Heh, heh, heh.
Big Ray
May 15th, 2009
9:21 pm
Astro Joe,
I can go for that. The tricky part is getting guys that not only are effective, but that Woody will play. While we’re complaining about the extreme trade proposals (and we’ve probably not even met our quota of those yet), I’m interested in hearing what the wiser/cooler heads have in mind. Haven’t heard a peep yet…
Astro Joe
May 15th, 2009
9:24 pm
I already submitted my ideas. RandMo for Superman and Acie for CP3. WTF, Ray, you aren’t paying attention?
Big Ray
May 15th, 2009
9:29 pm
Astro Joe,
LOL! I agree, man. I couldn’t help but laugh at the description of Stromile Swift. All too accurate. Maybe we can find a mad scientist who has figured out how to synthesize a solution of Organic Quick Gro and Motivation Mojo. I’d give a large dose by way of injection to RandMo. I’d give Josh a smaller dose, mixed with another wonder drug called FocusNConcentr8.
What do you think?
In the meantime, I’m mulling over the kind of bigs we can get that will meet our needs, and make Woody comfortable with running a deeper rotation. Of course, they DO have to be affordable. Dadgummit, why is everything got to be about money? Oh yeah. I forgot. It’s a business. Hee hee
Big Ray
May 15th, 2009
9:30 pm
Joe, I TOLD you I liked them, didn’t I? I’m with ya man, I’m WITH ya!!!
Big Ray
May 15th, 2009
9:34 pm
Pass the pipe and Praise the Lord!
Joe, you’ll have to pardon my sarcasm (come now, you’re no stranger to that, it’s fun and you know it), but you have to admit. There have been more crazy trade proposals, and complaints about the crazy trade proposals than there have been “good” ideas about how to improve the team without going over the cap, losing valuable assets, etc.
The Truth of the matter, as you know all too well, is that none of us really know what to do. We’re just having fun speculating it to death and shooting each other’s ideas out of the air. Really not much more to it than that. But we have to make it through the offseason somehow…I haven’t been paying much attention to baseball in general (I’m being a rogue Braves fan right now), and the Falcons are nowhere near getting started.
Hey! Have the Curling playoffs started yet?
Blast
May 15th, 2009
9:49 pm
Ray.
I feel Hawks needs are pretty obvious, and guess you didn’t read my earlier post about the core. The debris are the RandMo’s, Hunter, Mario et al. Solo even. Speedy for sure. Yeah they might come cheap, except for Speedy but don’t tell me you can’t get players for the same money that who would put up better effort?
Remember it’s a bad economy out there. Last year Flip was off to Moscow before Hawks called him with a 1.5 mil offer. Things aren’t that better right now. If the cap is lower, then guys would have to take paycuts. Just like I have done the last three years. Just like Bibby will do no matter where he ends up at.
Hawks are 2-3 decent plug ins away from respectability. A good center, so Al and Zaza can be back ups, a good point guard of the future, and either another shooting guard or small forward if Marvin and Evans can’t cut it.
Wipe out all the debris as I said, I don’t think it’s undoable. Truth is Hawks don’t have to carry 15 players on their roster. Staff your club with quality guys that have specific roles under the leagues minimum, and your club will thrive. Guys like Wade, LeBron and Kobe comes around once every 5-10 years. In lieu of those, do what Chauncey and Detroit did to win championships.
Of course, no point in debating all this until we at least know where salaries are gonna be capped at.
Blast
May 15th, 2009
9:55 pm
Ray, you said it yourself. The main reason we ended up with the bench we have is because Sund waited too long, not just about money. If it was about money, ownership wouldn’t be fighting in court right now due to Joe’s contract. If it was about money, they would not have paid Bibby all that money just to get his service for a year and a half. I thing the ASG will spend money, within reason.
Egins26Ali
May 15th, 2009
10:03 pm
I love tonight’s blogs better than last night. It seems to be more serious and makes more since. I like the idea of going for Ryan Hollins at the 5. We all seem to be in agreement about the Hawks needs. However the debate remains as to JSmoove’s ability to play the 3. I believe he can. His form is not bad on his jumper, its just not consistent. Its like his free throw shooting this season. It suffered because of lack of confidence and discipline. He got better in the playoffs because he focused. With Mark Price and the maturity that he has gained from another year I am sure that he will work hard this off season and it will improve. He needs to concentrate more on consistency from 15 to 20 feet and the 3’s will take care of itself.
The Hawks frontline was exposed in the playoffs. As has been stated over and over we are just to small on our frontline and don’t have enough depth to make a real run at a Championship. I truly feel that Marvin coming off the bench will provide more punch from him offensively and prevent him from being so injury prone. Wealso need to consider a Theo Ratliff or Drew Gooden coming off the bench. That would solidfy our bench with a few veterans for balance. AC, Flip, Mo(Maybe), ZaZa, Marvin, Theo or Drew and Mario.
Starting 5- Bibby, JJ, JSmooove, BigAl & Hollins, Joel P, Tyson Chandler, Biedrens.
Woody has to allow AC time. He can penetrate and break down a defense. His confidence in his jumper will come.(Rondo doesn’t have a jumper) AC could be cultivated by Bibby, but most importantly you have a best of both worlds at the pg position. A drop dead shooter and a penetrating pg that is cost effective.
Jody
May 15th, 2009
10:07 pm
If the hawks had to play Josh at the SF position, I don’t think it would have to be a total disaster. Actually, it you put him in the post against other small forwards, teams would’nt be able to stop him and it actually might encourage Josh to play more around the basket because of the advantage he would have. Kinda similar to what the Pistons did in the finals against the Lakers. They’d played Corliss Williamson at the 3 and dared the Lakers to double him and when they did, the Pistons got open looks.
cp
May 15th, 2009
10:14 pm
I need to check the free agent list. It’s 3 bigs out there that could help. Jeff Foster, Nesterovic (spelling), and Brandon Bass. Bass is probably more of a pf than a center but I think he would be fine in the backup role… I think either one of those 3 could help our bench. I prefer Foster because he is a great rebounder and we could really use some rebounding. Bass is strong and can finish around the hoop. They would all be cheap too. Like ray said, Sund has to get off to an early start and not wait so long if he wants to find better bench players this year. Woody would also play them because they are vets. I would lie to bring Hunter back. The kid showed some potential we just need someone to help develop the kid. Mario is a nice story and all but I would prefer a guard who has some type of offense to go with their defense. Morris needs to be included in some type of package I just don’t think the kid has it. I also like Gardner but once again we don’t have a coach who develops players all to well.
Astro Joe
May 15th, 2009
10:20 pm
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/freeagents/2009byposition.jsp
Ray, CHEAP and available bigs I would consider (from the above highly informative website) include Jason Collins (don’t laugh, he is an excellent team defender, always is at the right place at the right time & usually among the top players at drawing offensive fouls), Robert Swift (okay, so maybe I’m just guessing that the GM who drated him a few years ago will try to re-acquire him), Steven Hunter (recovering from an injury and mad that Denver isn’t showing him love this post-season after working hard thru rehab), Jamal Magloire (for 10 minutes a game and a cheap salary, why not?), Malik Rose (former rebounding machne who should have fresh legs after being in the NYC doghouse for a few years), Adonal Foyle (I think he’s better than Magloire and cut from the same cloth) and Malick Allen (nice perimeter game and is willing to mix it up down low). Obviously, those are the 9-12 type of big men, no one who is going to play 35 minutes a game. The other thing is that I tried to stay away from RFAs, prying those guys loose is very difficult (and tmely).
Some mock drafts suggest that BJ Mullins and Dajuan Blair may still be on the board when the Hawks draft. If Blair is available, Sund needs to sprint the draft card to Stern. Blair will make an immediate impact in his rookie season and can easily average 14 boards per 40 minutes. (I think once he starts his pre-draft workouts, teams will be all of him and he’ll go top 15).
Lastly, if we could find a way to bring back Childress, we would be adding a very effective rebounder to our bench. Unfortunately, he won’t fall under the “cheap” category.
O'brien
May 15th, 2009
10:54 pm
Free agents might be willing to sign quickly rather than wait and see, so Sund needs to act quick.
Jack made $2 mil this past season. Maybe he will take $4 mil. Will the Pacers match, since they owe TJ Ford $8 mil, Deiner $1.6 mil (player option) and Tinsley $6.8 mil.
Sessions made $722K, but Milwaukee is also paying Redd $15.8 mil, Jefferson gets $13.2 mil, Ridnour gets $6.5 mil, and they might still owe Damon Jones $4.5 mil, and Bogut $6.3 mil. Would they want to give Sessions $4-$5 mil? I think we could get 2 PG’s for the price of Bibby, because I can see Bibby wanting $8 million. PG’s who play defense, PG’s who are younger.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 15th, 2009
11:52 pm
I like some of these cheap big men being talked about. Nice to see realistic options being discussed. Please listen to Astro Joe, people… you’re not going to get big time players in trades by giving them our scrubs in return. Isiah Thomas doesn’t work in the league anymore.
niremetal
May 16th, 2009
12:17 am
Astro Joe,
I like Blair’s game, but does getting a 6′7 power forward really answer any of our problems? He would be an upgrade for our backup PF spot, but is that really what you want to do with the #19 pick?
ant banks
May 16th, 2009
12:19 am
b
niremetal
May 16th, 2009
12:25 am
Najeh/Astro Joe/Ray/etc,
Agreed on nixing the unrealistic trade proposals. This time of year always seems to bring a strange mix of proposals that the other team would never go for (Bibby and a draft pick for Monte Ellis?), others make no sense for us (Marvin for Ryan Hollins??), and some make no sense for either team (JJ and Marvin for Artest and T-Mac???). As Najeh said, stuff like that shouldn’t happen now that Isiah is gone…
Big Ray
May 16th, 2009
7:50 am
Blast,
Get a center so Al can be a back-up? Get a small forward and shooting guard in case Marvin and Mo can’t cut it?
Dude, you lost me RIGHT THERE….
Astro Joe
May 16th, 2009
9:07 am
niremetal, yeah, I think having a rebounding machine would do wonders for this team. I think Blair would add many possessions for our team, even coming off the bench. I’ve been asking for a ‘tweener for several months. Those short PF-types like Maxiell, Bass, Powe and Davis. Blair may not have the offensive skills of those guys but he will likely be a better board man. He would have uprooted Z and would have forced Varejao to take a long path around his wide body to the basket. Yeah, sign me up at #19.
Sautee
May 16th, 2009
10:23 am
MannyT had the best “magic beans trade description”: Judas for Jesus straight up.
LMFAO
Nire, he’s MY hero too.
O'brien
May 16th, 2009
11:40 am
I think Blair could be another Reggie Evans type. Not much of an offensive threat, but a good rebounder.
The Hawks have plenty of options (in my opinion), so there will be no excuse this offseason. We already have a GM in place, and our coach is under contract. Let’s go sign some people.
jhan
May 16th, 2009
12:59 pm
Ray, this is tricky for me to figure out. Josh’s game RIGHT NOW is best suited for PF. If he can learn to dribble, shoot from 12′-20′ & defend the perimeter this offseason then I say play him at SF. Seems like a lot to learn in a couple of months.
The best long term solution for the HAWKS is for Josh to learn SF skills & play there for the next 5 years.
I’ve been laughed at before for saying this but I believe Josh, Al & Marvin are all best suited to play PF. Al is undersized to play Center. Marvin is too uncoordinated & ineffective with the dribble to be an elite SF.
I guess I should change my earlier post to read “pick the one you like best” then trade the other two. If not one of them will need to move to the bench.
Not an easy decision for Sund this year. He will be earning his money!
I MUS.WRITE
May 16th, 2009
1:29 pm
Blair is not the answer for us. At 6′7 with limited jumping ability its gonna be hard for him to get his shot off in the post-see. Sheldon Williams.
Jeezuz christ people….Adonolye Foyle,Robert Swift,Malik Allen- these guys are cheap for a reason …They Suck …
Javeel Mcgee is who I would like to bring in……. Maybe they will bit on a 1st/Mo Evans, they need depth at SF -as Butler is often hurt.
I MUS.WRITE
May 16th, 2009
1:35 pm
For those of you who feel we cant get a quality big -Why the hell not…… Pau gasol and T Chandler were both let go for next to nothing…..Im sure if a team could get a good yung player and a first they would have to consider us atleast.
Jason Collins…. HAHAHAHAHA Im better than him right now …..No thanks Im startint to wonder if sum of yall even watch these players during the season, I would go with Solo over him MY GAWD
w8102chawks
May 16th, 2009
1:57 pm
Rev. Avery Johnson should be signed today, this young team team needs a proven leader, ask Don Nelson what he thinks of Averys’ coaching abilities over Mikes’, the thought is criminal.
O'brien
May 16th, 2009
3:24 pm
I was not impressed by Mo Evans, and I would be okay using him as part of a trade. There are a lot of backup SF available (eg Matt Barnes, Travis Outlaw, Trevor Ariza, Jarvis Hayes), plus we still have the rights to Chills.
I like the idea of trading our 19th pick, because who are we going to get at that position that will make an impact (and receive PT from Woody)? And the Hawks are already a very young team, and Woody plays Vets.
cp
May 16th, 2009
3:44 pm
O’brien I would take Ariza over Evans all day. He is a lot bigger and is a better finisher at the rim. He wont have the trouble guarding the big guards and small forwards as Evans did this past season. I would rather just sign Bass than draft Blair. I’m starting to think we might trade the 19th pick. This draft is guard heavy and we already know Woody does not like young guards. Knowing Sunds drafting history he might reach on the big center from Ohio State. I don’t like his game at all. He is a 7 footer who couldn’t grab 5 boards a game. We don’t need a soft 7 footer here.
Astro Joe
May 16th, 2009
5:24 pm
I.MUS, we were specifically discussing cheap bigs. The Wizards invested a pick and a year of training in Javale McGee, why would they want to trade him for Evans and the chance to start all over with another 1st round project? And trade him to a division opponent?
cp, a freshman center is going to need development. Everyone wants the finished product and not invest the time in development.
ILL-logical
May 16th, 2009
6:05 pm
Since it appears from the comments from the ajc columnists that woodson will be returning at least to complete his contract,as an alternative to repeating some of his past season’s mistakes,ie thinking tactically and not strategically, let’s focus on the replacements for the coaching staff whose contracts are all up and probably want to move on rather that continue to have their input ignored.
Who can the BASG hire to develop and run-without interference from you know who-an offense that uses the Hawk’s core players to their maximum potential and allows for in game adjustments to counteract the opponents shifts in strategy?
This person could also be considered as a potential head coach replacement should the need arise after the 2009-10 season.But most of all, the candidate should continue Woodson’s great efforts in keeping a young team focused on the team and not on their individual stats.