No need for snap decisions
The only thing that rages more than Josh Smith's emotions is his over-the-top talent . The Hawks would be wise to find ways to help channel that emotion in a positive direction.
HAWKSVILLE - Raise your hand if you thought we’d all end up here.
Go ahead, raise it up high. Let the rest of us see you. I need to make sure we count the hands.
Good. Now that the roll call is over, it’s time to get down the serious business that will be retooling this Hawks roster for next season. In case you missed it, nearly half the roster is going to be diving into the free agent waters this summer.
That means there’s a chance that the Hawks team you saw on the floor in the Eastern Conference semifinals against Cleveland will be no more as of July 1, the date the free agent negotiating season kicks off. That also means that the ball switches from Mike Woodson, Joe Johnson, Mike Bibby and Josh Smith’s court to that of Hawks general manager Rick Sund.
And judging by his 30-plus year resume in the league, Sund is well aware that now is not the time for snap decisions. Those are the things, as my guy Jeff Schultz alluded to his in his column from Game 4 of the Cleveland series, that can implode a franchise. Sund needs to do what his predecessor did not after last year’s Game 7 loss to Boston, and that’s take a week or so to decompress from this experience before coming to any conclusions about this team.
(Injuries to both Al Horford and Marvin Williams complicate any postseason studies into their performances, so basically all you can go off of is their healthy regular season work.)
We, on the other hand, don’t have to wait for anything to start making our assessments of what we saw, what we liked and disliked and what we think needs to be done to improve for the future (a wise . We can dive right in, as I know you have been doing for days. So without further ado, here is one thing that can’t wait:
Since he’s the one player Hawks fans ride worse than any other, it’s only fitting that we address Josh Smith first. No fewer than a dozen people came up to me in the minutes after the game to insist that he was the reason the Hawks lost yet another game. He wasn’t locked in on defense, I was told, and he was the one giving up all the big shots, and he let Anderson Varejao work him on the boards the entire series and that’s ultimately what cost the Hawks.
I’ve written it before and I’ll write it again, once again Smith serves as the easy scapegoat for the Hawks’ larger problems (their paper-thin depth, their flawed offensive scheme the wordsmith Mark Bradley nailed in his recent column and their inability to get ball pressure on the ball at the outset of offensive possessions, just to name a few).
In addition to outscoring all the Hawks other starters (26 to 25) in Game 4, Smith led the Hawks in scoring (17.1), rebounds (7.5), blocks (1.5) and steals (1.1, he tied with Flip Murray) in 11 postseason games. He only shot 42 percent from the floor and a putrid 13 percent (2-for-15) from beyond the 3-point line. But he raised his dismal free throw shooting percentage from the regular season up to 72 percent during the playoffs.
The point is, for every deficiency he has (and five years into his career, Smith, like scores of other pros in the same situation, still has plenty) Smith has a matching skill that can’t be overlooked. His mission this summer, forget about the 3-point line and hone the post skills that few teams can deal with. Take a page out of the book of New Orleans Hornets forward David West and come back with a money 16-footer that makes teams pay for leaving you open on the wing.
I place as much of the responsibility for that happening on Smith as I do his employers. There has to be some sort of marriage of philosophies this summer to make sure that he comes back next season a more polished player and one that fulfills his role as the Hawks’ truly most dynamic player.
We’re going to toss Bibby’s name around quite a bit in the coming weeks, so let me start by insisting that you consider what the Hawks looked like before he showed up and then compare that to what they looked like in his 130 games in uniform. It was a different world, folks. So keep that in mind this summer as the Hawks start weighing their point guard possibilities – and they are endless, what with the free agent market, the draft and whatever sign-and-trade possibilities might be out there.
Bibby’s status as an unrestricted free agent means he’ll have suitors other than the Hawks capable of presenting him with the opportunity to play at least three or four more years (Bibby’s been around for 11 years but just made 31 today). “The Hawks can get someone that’s a better defender and better distributor at that position, but I don’t know that they’re going to get a better shot maker or a better fit for their
Hey Hawks, what are you going to do with Mike Bibby?
team,” a scout friend told me via email earlier today when I inquired about his assessment of Bibby’s situation with the Hawks. “There’s not a team in the league that doesn’t need a guy who’s going to knock down the big shots he does. And the funny thing is, for all the talk about his big salary this year ($15 million in the final year of his deal), you know you’re going to get him for half that or even less on this next deal. He’ll actually be a bargain on his next deal, compared to what he was.”
Bibby is and remains the biggest question mark of the Hawks’ free agents. If you keep him, his successor has to be located immediately and then groomed (what the Hawks did the past two years with Acie Law IV was anything but grooming him) to eventually take over the starting job. If you decide against keeping Bibby, you almost guarantee that you’ll have to locate your new starter via some sort of trade. Because there is little to no chance of finding a point guard ready to be pressed into immediate starting service in the June draft, not where the Hawks are picking (deep in the first round at either 19 or 20).
The Hawks could pull a fast one and snag their point guard of the future and Bibby’s immediate replacement all at once. But as an Eastern Conference executive explained to me Tuesday morning, they’ll have to find someone else’s “garbage” (it wasn’t garbage in the sense you might think, he meant a guy that someone deemed expendable) and make him their own – sort of like what Cleveland did with Delonte West, who has blossomed into one of the league’s top young attack guards (a point guard in size but whatever he wants to be because of his tenacity and fearlessness). Guys that fit that mold to me, and I think there are plenty, including former Georgia Tech star Jarrett Jack, Lakers backup Jordan Farmar (he’s under contract for the next two years and under siege by Shannon Brown), Milwaukee’s Ramon Sessions (unrestricted free agent and ready for prime time) and Portland’s Sergio Rodriguez (still under contract for another year but clearly expendable with Steve Blake and Jerryd Bayless on the roster). There are
Might former Georgia Tech star Jarrett Jack be in the Hawks' future plans at point guard? We'll find out this summer.
also veterans like Philly’s Andre Miller (unrestricted), Chicago’s Kirk Hinrich (hefty salary for the next three years but absolutely expendable with Derrick Rose at the helm and Ben Gordon an unrestricted free agent), Charlotte’s Raymond Felton (restricted) and Utah’s Ronnie Price (unrestricted).
Again, the Hawks’ options are limitless, especially when you consider that basically half the players on their own roster are free agents of one form or another. But make no mistake, figuring out what to do at point guard remains the Hawks’ highest priority.
And there are several reasons why – the first being their utter refusal to draft the right point guard year after year during the previous regime. The most important, however, is that point guard play in the NBA has become the equivalent of quarterback play in the NFL. Either you have a veteran hand capable of orchestrating almost any situation, a guy that can make everything run smoothly (Kurt Warner anyone) or you have the young phenom (the Falcons’ Matt Ryan comes to mind) that simply will not be denied. If you get caught between those two extremes, you’re gambling with your team’s future.
If you don’t believe quality point guard play can make the absolute difference between mediocre and championship worthy, you should spend a few minutes reading one of the best stories I’ve read about that very subject (courtesy of Tom Friend of ESPN’s Outside The Lines). Seriously, if you don’t do anything else, read this story from top to bottom to see how the right guy at the most important position on the floor (or field) can make all the difference in the world for a team … sort of like Bibby did for the Hawks the last year and a half.
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624 comments Add your comment
MannyT
May 18th, 2009
2:36 am
Ray, you are correct about the asset management, but part of it is the rules of the trade. You cannot get back similar salary in some sign & trade deals, so you get the discount dudes and fill in the blank bodies.
No disrespect to Brent Barry & Antonio McDyess, but both of them got traded in the last 2 seasons to make the numbers work. San Antionio lost out because Barry did not come back after his 30 days. McDyess went back to Detroit after he made the numbers work in the Iverson/Billups deal.
We even had that situation in Atlanta. Technically the Hawks had the rights to the older, less productive Gary Payton when they sent Antoine Walker back to Boston several years ago. However, he didn’t want to be here and BK was ok with him not being here.
Enough for me for the night…I’ll leave with the good Dr. S.
Today you are You, that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You
MannyT
May 18th, 2009
2:48 am
Ariose, you get full credit for the answer. My point was that sign & trades do not follow the normal NBA trade paths…something I learned while working my (ray style) MFA.
g’night
CJ
May 18th, 2009
7:30 am
Don’t laugh all at once. But, I think the Hawks would be wise to draft in-state talent Garrett Siler from Augusta State University. He made the all tournament team at this years Portmouth Invitational Tournament and helped lead the Jags to the Div. II playoffs 2 years straight.
terrell barron
May 18th, 2009
7:30 am
If we plan on moving Smoove to sf, God forbid, we better bring in a center like Okur, who has range.
doc
May 18th, 2009
9:27 am
missed it as i joined the game late, seems howard threw a punch but didnt land it and nothing happens. zaza “overreacts” and gets thrown in less than 2 seconds. who really over reacted zaza or the ref. especially when wally szerbiak does about the same thing a few night s later and stays on board for the rest of the game. sometimes the refs make it difficult to be an nba fan. not saying howard should have been thrown only zaza needed to get a little more backing form the powers that be in that one. both were big games and both were under a lot of pressure. howard probably was tired of the holds on him just as zaza was “reacting” to a double team when he should have gotten the call because both hits were on him a charge and a grab pull down from behind.
Melvin
May 18th, 2009
9:42 am
Ray/Manny,
I will back Ariose on the Rudy Gay trade b/c it’s been reported that he was unhappy in Memphis since the young gunner (Mayo) arrived. I guess he doesn’t want to be 2nd fiddle to him. If this is still the case, than maybe its an outside chance that he could be traded especially if threatens not resign after next season. However, we may be a season premature for that scenario…
Ken
May 18th, 2009
10:14 am
I still think that there is not a health relationship between players and the head coach. FIRE the coach!!!
yetta
May 18th, 2009
10:30 am
Joe Johnson is not our answer as a “LEADER”. He has not confidence in any player but Bibby. Tha Our weakness is JJ and Bibby’s love for each other. How many points have we lost because of the passing back and forth between JJ and Bibby? They pass to each other until the last seconds and then pass to JSmoove so he makes a last minute jump shot. Josh is the scapegoat for JJ and Bibby’s love for each other. They need to trust the other players more and pass the ball. How many shots has JJ missed because he didn’t shoot or pass the ball soon enough. He is not ALL THAT!!!!!!
Astro Joe
May 18th, 2009
10:32 am
So what does it mean when you get a message that says that “your comment is awaiting moderation”?
doc
May 18th, 2009
11:42 am
you probably put an attachment to it. where it goes i dont know but when i linked something yesterday i went to moderation land myself.
darrell starks
May 18th, 2009
12:14 pm
Melvin me to like rudy gay i would trade for him in a heart beat.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
May 18th, 2009
12:20 pm
There is three players that i think could take us to the next level bosh, stoudemire, rudy all three player are planning on leaving there team when the opportunity is there.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Astro Joe
May 18th, 2009
1:44 pm
Didn’t Gay say at the end of the season that he was anxious to extend his contract and cstay in Memphis?
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/mar/20/grizzlies-aiming-for-deal-with-gay/?partner=RSS
Astro Joe
May 18th, 2009
1:48 pm
Part 1 of a post stuck in moderation.
CJ, I would take Siler in the 2nd round and send him to the NBDL and pay for a nutritionist to work with him. That would be a wise investment. Even in his current condition, he;s probably better than RandMo.
Manny, no doubt that there are always good players late in the first round and even in the second round. But we all know that the draft is a crap shoot, not just for the Hawks but for every team. How many teams whiffed on Micheal Redd, Gilbert Arenas and Manu Ginobli? Probably 25 or more.
I guess this notion of Woody as the poor developer of talent comes from Acie’s lack of development. Which I agree has been poor. Woody has certainly rewarded every other 1st round pick with plenty of playing time in thier rookie season. The Joshes, Marvin, Shelden & Horford all received plenty of time.
I just looked at Acie’s splits for his rookie season. Strange, I thought that he had played well prior to Bibby’s arrival (Pre All-Star stats). I was wrong. But he was getting almost 17 minutes per game pre-Bibby.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?playerId=3219&sYear=2008&sType=3
Astro Joe
May 18th, 2009
1:49 pm
Part 2 of moderating post.
The other thing I forgot was how much Acie was hurt in his rookie year. Ankle and wrist injuries cost him to miss a ton of game last season. If you click on the scores for the games where he played 0 minutes, you will mostly find DNP-Injury. I think I found 1-2 DNP-Coaches Decision, but mostly, dude had troubles last year (and this year) staying healthy.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=3219&year=2008
Astro Joe
May 18th, 2009
1:50 pm
Last part.
Second round picks also need nurturing and Woody hasn’t found a way to get those guys consistent run (other than Salim’s first two seasons).
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=2786
I guess my point is that Woody does play his first round picks in their rookie seasons (when they’re healthy). He does give them a chance to get and stay in the rotation. In Law’s case, he could have done more but let’s also say that Acie could have done more to force the issue (sub 38% shooting doesn’t scream “I am worthy of floor time on a team trying to make the playoffs”).
bigdave
May 18th, 2009
1:54 pm
Oberto… Kurt Thomas…?
dap01
May 18th, 2009
2:12 pm
AC would have 4 assists and no turnovers in 6 minutes. He performed well when given an opportunity. Bibby could have turnovers and shoot 3 for 13 and still get his extended minutes even though he is the most worn out 30 year old ever. He can guard NOBODY!
Can you imagine how ineffective Bibby will be after next year (being 1 year older). Oh I forgot, Woody will start using his bench effectively next year. He won’t because he will again be playing for every win trying to get another contract.
It is so frustrating being a Hawks fan.
Melvin
May 18th, 2009
2:26 pm
Astro,
Good link on Rudy Gay. Maybe I read too much into some of the statements but I detect some double (or very cautious) talk.
They must be far apart with his salary expectation….
“I have no real thoughts on that either way,” Hollins said. “If a guy is reasonable, it’ll get done. I just don’t think anybody can take (negotiations) personal. I don’t think Rudy can take it personal. I don’t think his agent can take it personal. The organization can’t. It’s just business.”
Among the factors both sides will consider will be money and the length of a potential deal. Expect Gay to consult Paul, who signed a three-year extension instead of a five-year extension after doing research and talking to LeBron James and Dwyane Wade.
“At one time, Gay appeared to be headed toward earning the maximum salary allowed. Those terms may be in jeopardy given Gay’s inconsistent season.
His averages in points (18.8), rebounds (5.7), assists (1.7), overall shooting (44 percent) and 3-point shooting (31 percent) are all down from last season.
Despite playing for his fourth coach in a Grizzlies uniform, Gay sounds no less committed to excellence.
“I have the potential to be a franchise player,” Gay said. “This year didn’t really show it. But everybody that’s seen me play knows I’m capable. I think this organization’s heart is in the right place. I just want them behind me. I guess we’ll see this summer how much they support me.”
You wanna now why Gay was inconsistent this season, two words. OJ Mayo…
Astro Joe
May 18th, 2009
2:29 pm
Woody should make a deal with Sund that if 10 players average 15 or more minutes next season, that he gets a 3 year contract, regardless of the team’s record.
Sund should make a deal with the owners that he will not lose his job if Woody finishes the year with 10 players who average 15 or more minutes next season, regardless of record.
Owners should make a deal with the season ticketholders that they will renew their tickets as long as Woody has 10 players who average 15 or minutes minutes per game regardless of the team’s record.
Viewers should make a deal with the networks that they will continue to watch the Hawks as long as Woody has 10 players who average at least 15 minutes… regardless of their record.
The networks should make a deal with the corporations that they will continue to purchase advertising from the networks for Hawks games as long as Woody has 10 or more players who average at least 15 minutes… regardless of their record.
And we should collectively make a deal with each other that all of our blogged comments about the Hawks shall be positive next year as long as Woody has 10 players who average at least… regardless of their record.
Somewhere, between a 13 win season and a 47 win season, many stopped caring for wins and grew content watching the turnstyle at the scorers table. WTF is that about?
Ariose
May 18th, 2009
3:02 pm
Melvin, yup. I don’t remeber the article(I will look for it) but It said that Early on in the season Rudy was frustrated with OJ and his penchant for being a “chucker” and ignoring the offense.
I think it was a case of plays breaking down or being jumped by the opposition and Rudy not appeciating the ISO-O.J Mayo, instead of getting the ball to Rudy or down low to Gasol. Mike Miller was completewly different because he did not dominate the ball. Miller likes to run off of screens and spot-up in order to get his points, this allowed rudy to be one of the primary ball-handlers. At least, that’s my take on the situation.
From what i’s seen post-allstar break, they seem to be getting along just fine. I don’t think the problem was ever personal. I just think Rudy had to get use to another scorere who has to have the ball in his hands in order to be effective.
Rudy wouldn’t have that problem in a Hawks uniform. If he wants to be the playmaker, he can. In pheonix, Joe was a spot up guy until nash goes to the bench for a breather, and joe would then take over the PG duties. Bibby also likes to spot up, and Rudy is a great finisher/ball handler. He can also shoot. The less attention paid to joe, the more effective he will be. In short, JJ+Rudy= Unstoppable Offense
wesleywhatwhat
May 18th, 2009
3:03 pm
interesting blog.
my 2 cents:
sign bibby at a 50% salary reduction. play bibby 20-24 minutes. play acie law or find a suitable replacement to play major minutes as a backup. i like jarett jack’s game a lot.
trade williams for marc gasol. nothing against williams, but we need a battler down low.
finding the right guy to come in as the new coach would help but may not be necessary for the hawks to be a top 3 or 4 seed in the east.
doc
May 18th, 2009
3:09 pm
astro, you are such a bully, dont go and throw reality in my face. i am going to go out and pump up my own contentiousness before i come back with any retorts as you seem to be playing under handed now. that is the only way to handle a blog bully.
now where can i go to practice? maybe the falcon blog now that mv7 is heading into freedom. heh heh
look out stro!
Ariose
May 18th, 2009
3:14 pm
Astro Joe, Thats pure Genuis right there lol!
Hoops
May 18th, 2009
3:32 pm
WE NEED A 1 MAN THAT CAN DEFEND AND A 5 MAN THAT CAN DEFEND AND REBOUND!!! Put Marvin, Josh Smith, and Bibby out there and see what you can get for them. I’ll bet we would be surprised @ the number of teams that would be willing to talk trades and draft picks! I believe we can get Sessions from the Bucs!
Ariose
May 18th, 2009
3:45 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjtmPxO_6rk
All I'm Saying Is...
May 18th, 2009
4:12 pm
Trade up and draft Hasheem Thabeet—he’s 7′ 3″—by offering Marvin Williams and Acie Law.
The Truth
May 18th, 2009
4:24 pm
The Rudy Gay senario sounds interested but will no doubt require a trade and maybe a draft pick since he is currently under contract. As an alternative, I like Hidayet Turkoglu even better since he is available now assuming he doesn’t execise his last year option of 7.3M with Orlando. This guy can play 4 positions and can shoot from any angle. His natural position is SF. Also, PG Devin Harris is available now as a free agent. His last year deal with New Jersey was 7.8M. Maybe we could get both these guys for Mike Bibby contract. Now that would be an upgrade.
Ariose
May 18th, 2009
4:34 pm
Man, I don’t really want us to get rid of Marvin. He just had a great season. He was peaking right when he went down with that back injury. I just think he would be better off as a top reserve instead of starting. Of course, he CAN start if the situation calls for it.
Truth, I don’t think Harris is a free Agent. If he was we would’ve all been guessing how much money sund would have to throw at him in order to get him to come here.
MannyT
May 18th, 2009
4:35 pm
I believe “Your comment is awaiting moderation” is the blog with link equivalent of AA. We put your words in a holding pattern until someone deemed worthy says your words are allowed to play with others.
For all this Rudy Gay talk, isn’t he the SF version of Josh? He does better with 3 pt shots, but he rebounds a bit less and has slightly lower stats across the board (except for points.)
A point forward would allow us to have a PG that was more of a shooter, but the addition of Gay does not address the primary concerns of defense on PGs in the lane (i.e. a center)
I realize Gay is talented, but I don’t know that he is a defensive upgrade on Marvin when we have to go up against LeBron, Paul Pierce & Hedu Turkoglu. In our current situation Marvin is better able to switch on a PF with the similarly sized 3,4,5 positions we have.
BWAF
Astro Joe
May 18th, 2009
4:37 pm
doc, the Falcons blog gets a lot of heat (and they deserve it, especially when you know who is discussed). But DOB’s blog has a fair share of cynics as well. That blog seems like it is full of angry baseball fans who only know about the 14 years of winning and don’t recall the days of Roland Office, Biff Pocoroba and Gary Matthews knocking his helmet off his head as he rounded first base. Go over there and suggest that Hanson should spend the entire year in AAA and that should get you more than ready to handle my velvet boxing gloves. HA!
darrell starks
May 18th, 2009
4:40 pm
Ariose rudy gay remind me of a young ICE MAN george gervin if im the hawks i would trade marvin this year 1st and next year 1st for him.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Truth
May 18th, 2009
4:44 pm
Ariose
I agree about Marvin, I like him too. He has more up side for sure. But Hidayet Turkoglu, you don’t pass up. This guy is a 4-person package in one. Maybe him and Marvin can coexist.
Regarding Harris; here is where I saw the link:
[http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_jersey.htm]
Astro Joe
May 18th, 2009
4:49 pm
Manny, I agree. Gay is a cross between Marvin and Josh. While he may be a perfect fit with Horford (more aggressive than Marvin and a better shooter than Smith), I don’t see pairing him with either Smith nor Marvin.
Ariose, I agree. And I would also add that another reason that I would personally keep Marvin is because on the uncertainty the Joe will return. If Joe were to ditch us in 2010-11, I think we would be in much better shape with Marvin on the squad. I’m not saying that he is a bonafide #1 option but I do think that without Joe, he could easily become a “solid #2″ type player with enough touches and the demand by his coach to score. Right now, he’s too willing to defer, mostly because he is such a good teammate. But I think that in time, he will learn to become a little more selfish and will become a consistent 17+ scorer in this league.
MannyT
May 18th, 2009
4:59 pm
Let’s call this the A cup post…aka underdevelopment.
Let me start by reiterating that I think Woody is a good person, but that has little to do with being a good coach.
Johnny Storm…Flame on!
Woody’s challenge with the lack of development of players is more than playing time. When Royal Ivey was here, he started, but would you say Woody was developing him?
When Boris Diaw was here, he seemed to be the round peg in the square hole dog house. He got to Phoenix and they found a round hole for him that he continues to flourish with in Charlotte.
Woody admitted that he did not develop AC while he was chasing the playoffs last season. Think about who Woody yells at in public…not Joe, not any of the starters–not even Josh usually. AC seems to be a whipping post.
Let’s go farther…when Shelden was here, many of you seemed to think Solo had more potential. Shelden goes away. Solo comes back bigger and stronger this season after working AWAY from the Hawks summer team. Seems like he is ready for something big in early November. By the playoffs, we are wondering who is that guy?
After Chills departed, he said Woody would never start him…even when Marvin was hurt, Chills was the bench guy. If I always see you as a dog, I’ll treat you as a dog…even if you are in reality a cat
I’ll let Ariose do the heavy lifting for Salim, but it suffices to say that Salim’s rookie year stats were better than AC’s. Woody seemed to suck the life out of both.
Did he develop Al or did Al’s basketball IQ drive his defensive steadiness? Offensively, he becomes more offensive over time. Not saying he cannot develop a post game, but it’s not gotten any better while Woody’s been his coach.
Does Mario refuse to shoot 100s of jumpers in the summer or has his road to 5.8 sec of playing time been defense without regard for developing any kind of outside shot? Even Magic Johnson learned to make a palm ball set shot from the outside. Why can’t Mario learn on of those? I don’t want him to shot when covered, just when he is wide open.
There were no draft picks last summer. That means there was extra time to develop the young talent. That extra focus really showed up in the development of who this year? Please let me know because I missed that developmental focus
Woody is a nice guy, but I don’t see the team playing to its strengths. If you want a comparison of how people can be developed, look at Portland or Houston. Portland is young, but they seem to keep growing talent. I know Nick Batum was high on all of your lists. They had injuries early and found a way to get something out of him. Steve Blake was never the prized player at Maryland, but he seems to have developed enough that they moved the PG we want (Jack) to Indy last year.
Houston lost their top 2 players and their backup center. They also traded away their starting PG in February. Our equivalent might be losing Joe, Josh & Zaza, then trading Bibby and giving the team to AC with his backup as a 2nd year guy that we picked up at the trade deadline. Sure they lost to the Lakers, but they also beat them handily TWO times in the playoffs using a guy that could not make our team (Von Wafer). When Al & Marvin could not play in Miami we looked quite bad.
The development piece is lacking. If you have seen something that I missed, please share.
Flame off!
BWAF
The Truth
May 18th, 2009
5:26 pm
I’m trying to think, is there any other player beside Diaw that is flourishing in the NBA that Woody let go? I’m certainly not defending Woody but he may be more weaker at evaluating talent then developing it. In other words, his draft selections may be the real story here assuming he had major involvments with BK. If the draft selections were all BK fault, than Woody will argure that he had little to work with but I doubt it. I wish we had more insight into how management decided our past draft picks. Than we would know how much was BK fault and how much was Woody fault.
Samuel
May 18th, 2009
5:55 pm
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/178103-success-in-back-to-back-seasons-leaves-the-atlanta-hawks-at-crossroads/show_full
Success In Back To Back Seasons Leaves The Atlanta Hawks at Crossroads
Last year the Atlanta Hawks surprised the league and took the eventual champion Boston Celtics to game seven of their first round playoff matchup.
This year expectations were higher and the Hawks again rose to the occasion by finishing fourth in the Eastern Conference, securing home court advantage in their first round playoff series and defeating the Miami Heat and superstar Dwayne Wade.
Their second round match against LeBron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers ended in a sweep, as the 08′-09′ season ended in disappointing fashion. Injuries to starters Marvin Williams and Al Horford left an already over matched Hawks team easy prey for a hungry Cleveland team playing at its peak.
The Hawks have gone from laughing stock of the NBA to surprise Cinderella to now firmly among the second tier playoff teams vying to crack the elite group. This summer the Hawks have 8 out of 15 players who are Free agents and face difficult decisions that could determine their status for the next few years.
Here is a look at some of the options General manager Rick Sund has to ponder over within the next few weeks.
Mike Bibby came aboard about the midway point of the 07′-08′ season and the Hawks immediately transformed from a team with a boatload of young talent to a team finally able to translate that talent into victories. Mike Bibby provides leadership and shot making ability that the Hawks haven’t had. Consequently, they run the risk of not only not improving but actually falling back if they lose Bibby.
The dilemma with Bibby is the fact that he is a Free Agent who made just under 15 million this year and 80 million over the past seven years. The Hawks are banking on the fact that Bibby has made his money and realize that he will have to take a significant pay cut.
Bibby has stated numerous times that he loves the Atlanta area and the freedom that he has to run the team under head coach Mike Woodson. If the Hawks can sign Bibby for 7-8 million dollars they should jump on it. Joe Johnson will be a free agent next year and has stated publicly on numerous occasions how he enjoys playing along side Mike Bibby. If the Hawks let Bibby go they also risk of losing Joe Johnson to free agency next year.
Last year’s number one draft choice Acie Law has shown flashes of talent but is inconsistent, injury prone and hasn’t developed a consistent jump shot. The Hawks should look to move Law to more of an up tempo team while he still has trade value.
Marvin Williams is coming off his best season as a pro. He is a restricted free agent with loads of talent but disappointed the Hawks fans with yet another injury during this year’s playoff run. The Hawks have numerous players who are the same size and similar skill sets so Williams figures to be the odd man out.
This former number one draft pick should be able to increase his salary of four point five million dollars per year and would make a fine addition to a team in need of youth and all around play making ability at the small forward position. The Hawks best bet is probably to work out a sign and trade with another team such as Portland who has an abundance of big men and back up point guards.
Other options would be to just let Williams go, use the money saved along with the Bibby pay cut and acquire a quality veteran big man such as a Rasheed Wallace. That would allow the Hawks to move Al Horford to his natural position of Power Forward and Josh Smith to small forward on defense. Wallace can shoot the perimeter shot so Josh Smith can still work on the blocks on offense along with Horford. The Hawks would also become better able to defend bigger teams with the addition of Wallace.
ZaZa Pachulia really came into his own as a quality rebounder and low post scorer who gives the Hawks much needed energy off the bench at the Center and power forward position. The Hawks must resign Puchulia who is a unrestricted free agent. They figure to have competition for their valuable big man but should be able to resign him for a slight pay raise. ZaZa has now accepted his role as a back up center in the NBA so he probably would rather stay put in Atlanta.
Flip Murray was a major steal of the season in the NBA. The Hawks signed him for the league minimum but will no doubt have to give him a sizable pay raise in order to keep him. Murray gives the Hawks a much needed scorer who can play either guard position and who at times carried the Hawks this season during scoring droughts by Joe Johnson and Mike Bibby.
Other free agents include: Solomon Jones, James Gardner, Othello Hunter and Mario West. These guys are all replaceable.
Speedy Claxton is a seldom used point guard and hold over from the Billy Knight era. Claxton has been injured his entire career in Atlanta and his 6 million dollar a year contract is due to expire next year. Hopefully the Hawks can move this contract for a quality big man or point guard this summer, buy him out or just let his contract expire after next season.
This summer the Hawks can go in a variety of directions. Do they want to stand pat and resign the guys they have minus Williams and possibly Law or shake up things and try to move up into the top three in the East and avoid Cleveland in the second round of the playoffs? To accomplish the latter, they would have to move a big name such as Joe Johnson or Josh Smith.
However, with the Celtics aging and LeBron becoming a free agent next year, the Hawks would be better served opting for the former and solidifying their position as a solid #4 team and possibly sneaking into the top three with an addition of a big man who can score and play defense.
O'brien
May 18th, 2009
6:05 pm
Can we honestly say that Woody has helped anybody’s game? Josh is who he is (5 years later), Marvin worked on his 3 point range, JJ is JJ, Bibby is Bibby. Mario has been here 2 years, and all he does is play defense. I think Woody is a poor evaluator AND poor developer.
There are lots of options out there, so Sund will have choices if the ASG is willing to spend money. And thats why I would prefer not resigning Bibby (especially if he is going to cost $8 million), because that $8 mill could go a long way. (One good thing about Hedu is he also handles the ball, so that would take some pressure off JJ).
I think Marvin would be great off the bench, because he woouldnt defer so much. However, I still think if we resign Flip, he needs to not be the ball hog that he is, improve his shot selection, and cut down on his turnovers. But Woody never says anything to him so he does whatever he wants…
MannyT
May 18th, 2009
6:05 pm
I’ll give Woody a 100% pass on the selection of talent at this moment regardless of the level of involvement he had in personnel decisions. He doesn’t officially pick them or release them.
However, every summer, he admits to things he has not done. Every October, he talks about how it will be different. By Thanksgiving, those words are in the SUCKERS folder.
I understand that there may be some business decisions behind not playing Speedy not and Tony Delk a few years back. That makes a larger case for developing the other guys.
You have to do the best with what you have. It seems to me that others have gotten more out of Royal Ivey & Boris Diaw. The jury is out on Salim. We will give him a pass on Shelden. The other guys are still on the roster so it’s hard to assess how they will do under other coaching.
Even among vets, Woody did well with Lue, but did you see Anthony Johnson during the playoffs? He struggled here, but has done well (under different circumstances) in Orlando.
I don’t expect Woody to take the guys from the bottom of the bench and turn them into all stars, but I do expect him to find a way to get contributions from the middle of the roster. Find something that they do well and make it work within your scheme.
BWAF
The Truth
May 18th, 2009
6:35 pm
MannyT
Regarding Anthony Johnson for Orlando, If we had Dwight Howard on our team, Salim might have been an All-Star for the Hawks
Astro Joe
May 18th, 2009
6:57 pm
Manny, Diaw found his way after D’Antoni put him in the PF slot when Amare was injured. Let’s face it, there’s a pretty good chance that most coaches would not have put a 6′8″ cream-puff with above handle distribution skills at PF.
I’d also suggest that Woody is ultimately responsible for playing time distribution BUT NOT player development. I’m sure doc will remind us of how McMillan does it in Portland. But I think that is an exception. My guess is that Phil Jackson spends very little time with Bynum. KAJ is Bynum’s coach. We know that George Karl isn’t teaching JR Smith, they supposedly don’t talk. And does D. Howard give credit to his previous head coaches or does he talk about how Clifford Ray and Pat Ewing have helped him become the dominant center he has become? I don’t think that Woody needs to teach Josh how to shoot or Solo how to box out or Acie how to maintain healthy wrists, ankles, back or right eyebrow. What he does need to do is give those players on-court time to utlize the training that his assistants should be conducting with his young players.
One of my frequent rants of the past few years is why the Hawks don’t spend more money on their coaching staff to support their extremely young team. And that’s why I was so thrilled to see Mark Price added to the team of teachers for ths squad. And I was glad to see Marvin take advantage of that resource. I’d like to see Sund continue to make those staff additions that can provide the right foundation for our young guys. And then it is up to Woody to put the training into action on the court with playing time.
Now go share a bowl of popcorn with Ben Grmmm.
Astro Joe
May 18th, 2009
7:06 pm
The Hawks have numerous players who are the same size and similar skill sets so Williams figures to be the odd man out.
Samuel, who are these players on the Hawks roster who can create their own shot, drive and get to the free throw line, shoot the open jumper, bury the ball from behind the 3-point line and provide above average perimeter defense on the bigger/stronger SFs in the Eastern Conference at the tender age of 23? Somehow, I seemed to have lost those guys on our roster.
The Truth
May 18th, 2009
7:29 pm
I think that BK psyched us all in believing that he had a master plan when in fact he was just picking (what he thought) was the best available player regardless of our real needs. We really needed a PG, he picked Marvin (SF) because NC won a title, we really needed a big center he picked Sheldon 6′8″ a tweener center because Duke won a title and then he picked Al Horford to be a center, a 6″10″ PF because he won 2 titles. I can go on and on. Our problem is we have no one who can evaluate real talent based on our real needs. I hope Sund is the beginning of real change. Maybe I am just dreaming. We shall see.
glw
May 18th, 2009
7:43 pm
Not sure if anyone has talked about some scenarios, but I am very intrigued by adding a couple of guys. Rasheed ability to play outside is a plus and probalby would fit with JSmoove and Horford’s working the blocks. Another intriguing prospect I think would be Ron Artest, but purely from the Cleveland angle, where u want him for the playoffs and he would give Josh and HOrford that added chip on their shoulders and I think take some of the pressure off of Joe.
Another idea which might be far-fetched is Tyson Chandler. New Orleans has already tried to give him away once. Maybe he can be had on the cheap? I have heard rumors all year that the Hornets are financially strapped and would like to cut payroll. While I am sure they would love to swap and get Horford and pay his 7 million less than they do Chandler, would it be possible to pry him away from the cost cutting Hornets for something like say Mo Evans, rights to Josh Childress and draft picks/and or other considerations? That would be an imposing frontline, give us the rebounder and interior defesive presence we need?
Big Ray
May 18th, 2009
7:45 pm
Melvin,
Remember what I said about Memphis needing a motive to move Rudy Gay? Well you just provided it, if the rumor is true. Of course, we’ve seen this all happen before. My guess is that they’ll make up and be friends when the numbers get crunched to the satisfaction of both sides.
Meanwhile, the guy is talented. Which automatically means that people will find ways and reasons why he wouldn’t fit here. Heh…
Big Ray
May 18th, 2009
8:02 pm
Astro Joe,
Acie Law’s development (or lack thereof) probably is at the peak of the dissatisfaction with Woody’s performance in that area. The truth of it is, Woody was doing a decent job with Acie early on in his first year. The kid was getting roughly 15 mpg or more at the time. The guys who played in front of him were AJ and Lue. Neither was the ideal starting veteran pg. Acie incurred injury a bit later, and that set him back. But what really set him back was the acquisition of Mike Bibby. Acie’s minutes automatically went down, and whether he played at all became an issue.
I can’t blame Woody for getting excited at Bibby’s arrival. What I do blame him for was all but forgetting Acie. He probably felt like he had more time to get Acie brought along once Bibby was there, because Bibby could play major minutes (and we really needed him to sometimes).
Suffice it to say the Bibby’s arrival meant a lesser need to develop Acie as quickly. When all you have is Lue and AJ, getting Acie ready, and seeing if he can do the job is paramount. After all, he was a lottery pick. But with a guy of Bibby’s caliber, Acie’s development hit the back burner and got stuck there. It’s the way Woody likes to do things. The only reason why it aggravates me now is because we are not guaranteed to keep either Bibby or Flip. Acie is not ready, and we know why (injuries, playing time, his own performance issues). The way he played in the preaseason, he looked like he was ready to be thrown to the wolves.
But it was never going to happen with Bibby there, and still able to perform at the level that he has. Can’t blame Woody for keeping Bibby in the starting lineup as that only made sense. But not giving him a breather by mixing Law in for a paltry 15 mpg (or more) when he might be the only pg you have under contract (who knows THIS system) at season’s end? Just 15 mpg! Couldn’t have been that impossible, could it? I know, I know, Flip was available too. But why not let Flip be and do what he is: a tough, undersized 2-guard who is best suited to find a way to score, not run the team.
Salim Stoudamire might have just been a bad fit here. That, and he didn’t respond well to adversity, and didn’t play under control. Having said that, I imagine he and Woody didn’t get along too well.
Woody definitely gets a pass on Sheldon Williams. One of our worst picks of the recent era, for a variety of reasons. His inability to get anything done in Sacramento absolved Woody of anything and everything, in my opinion. Royal Ivey was what he was. I thought Woody used him well, but again….the guy would have never sniffed the hardwood if it hadn’t been for the low caliber players in front of him. Woody has done well with guys who came in with ready-made talent. Anything different, and it’s been a struggle.
I see more potential and ability in Solo than he seems to get credit for. He played well in last year’s playoffs. He played well to start the season. Suddenly, his minutes dropped off the face of the earth. Strange. Still haven’t figured that one out.
But yeah…it’s Law that has heads scratching. Can’t say anything about Hunter, Gardner, or West. West is rough around the edges, and the other two weren’t even drafted.
And I can’t blame anybody for Randolph Morris except Sund. What a joke…
Big Ray
May 18th, 2009
8:10 pm
Actually, I can’t disagree with anything in MannyT’s 4:59 post. I should have read that before posting my own crap….
Big Ray
May 18th, 2009
8:18 pm
” Let’s face it, there’s a pretty good chance that most coaches would not have put a 6′8″ cream-puff with above handle distribution skills at PF.”
I’d agree, except for a few things. One, it turns out that Diaw can rebound and defend just fine. So the cream-puff thing only really fits with those who want to make it fit. Two, most coaches wouldn’t put Diaw there because that’s not the type of system they run. Guys like D’Antoni, Ivaroni, and ironically Larry Brown would do it because they have that kind of vision. Interesting. Larry Brown does, but Woody wouldn’t. Huh. Third, others of similar talent come to mind. Hedo Turkoglu plays opposite Rashard Lewis. Both guys have a decent handle, and neither is a PF. Lamar Odom is the quintessential example, if you ask me. But it’s true that there aren’t many.
I think the point is that guys with that kind of handle are more valuable passing out of and through the post area, than they are from teh SF or SG spots.
Samuel
May 18th, 2009
8:22 pm
Joe,
You are right in that Marvin is our only 6′9 guy who can shoot from the outside and get to the line. I actually would love to keep him here but the “experts” are saying we have to move someone. If we do, then he seems like the one who will go. His prone to injury is really leaving me somewhat dissappointed each year.
If one of our top 5 has to go, who do you think it should be? Would you gamble and let Bibby walk in order to keep Marvin?
I actually would like to keep the entire team in tact one more year and see how this 2010 free agency stuff will pan out. That seems to be the “Y2K” on Basketball.
Hms
May 18th, 2009
8:28 pm
I wonder what simpleton wrote the LIFE UNDER THE BLEACHERS article. It’s missing about 20 freaking commas. It’s THOMAS Gardner, not James Gardner. Marvin Williams was not picked number one. He was picked number two. Who wrote this, the retard in the movie SLINGBLADE?