No need for snap decisions
The only thing that rages more than Josh Smith's emotions is his over-the-top talent . The Hawks would be wise to find ways to help channel that emotion in a positive direction.
HAWKSVILLE - Raise your hand if you thought we’d all end up here.
Go ahead, raise it up high. Let the rest of us see you. I need to make sure we count the hands.
Good. Now that the roll call is over, it’s time to get down the serious business that will be retooling this Hawks roster for next season. In case you missed it, nearly half the roster is going to be diving into the free agent waters this summer.
That means there’s a chance that the Hawks team you saw on the floor in the Eastern Conference semifinals against Cleveland will be no more as of July 1, the date the free agent negotiating season kicks off. That also means that the ball switches from Mike Woodson, Joe Johnson, Mike Bibby and Josh Smith’s court to that of Hawks general manager Rick Sund.
And judging by his 30-plus year resume in the league, Sund is well aware that now is not the time for snap decisions. Those are the things, as my guy Jeff Schultz alluded to his in his column from Game 4 of the Cleveland series, that can implode a franchise. Sund needs to do what his predecessor did not after last year’s Game 7 loss to Boston, and that’s take a week or so to decompress from this experience before coming to any conclusions about this team.
(Injuries to both Al Horford and Marvin Williams complicate any postseason studies into their performances, so basically all you can go off of is their healthy regular season work.)
We, on the other hand, don’t have to wait for anything to start making our assessments of what we saw, what we liked and disliked and what we think needs to be done to improve for the future (a wise . We can dive right in, as I know you have been doing for days. So without further ado, here is one thing that can’t wait:
Since he’s the one player Hawks fans ride worse than any other, it’s only fitting that we address Josh Smith first. No fewer than a dozen people came up to me in the minutes after the game to insist that he was the reason the Hawks lost yet another game. He wasn’t locked in on defense, I was told, and he was the one giving up all the big shots, and he let Anderson Varejao work him on the boards the entire series and that’s ultimately what cost the Hawks.
I’ve written it before and I’ll write it again, once again Smith serves as the easy scapegoat for the Hawks’ larger problems (their paper-thin depth, their flawed offensive scheme the wordsmith Mark Bradley nailed in his recent column and their inability to get ball pressure on the ball at the outset of offensive possessions, just to name a few).
In addition to outscoring all the Hawks other starters (26 to 25) in Game 4, Smith led the Hawks in scoring (17.1), rebounds (7.5), blocks (1.5) and steals (1.1, he tied with Flip Murray) in 11 postseason games. He only shot 42 percent from the floor and a putrid 13 percent (2-for-15) from beyond the 3-point line. But he raised his dismal free throw shooting percentage from the regular season up to 72 percent during the playoffs.
The point is, for every deficiency he has (and five years into his career, Smith, like scores of other pros in the same situation, still has plenty) Smith has a matching skill that can’t be overlooked. His mission this summer, forget about the 3-point line and hone the post skills that few teams can deal with. Take a page out of the book of New Orleans Hornets forward David West and come back with a money 16-footer that makes teams pay for leaving you open on the wing.
I place as much of the responsibility for that happening on Smith as I do his employers. There has to be some sort of marriage of philosophies this summer to make sure that he comes back next season a more polished player and one that fulfills his role as the Hawks’ truly most dynamic player.
We’re going to toss Bibby’s name around quite a bit in the coming weeks, so let me start by insisting that you consider what the Hawks looked like before he showed up and then compare that to what they looked like in his 130 games in uniform. It was a different world, folks. So keep that in mind this summer as the Hawks start weighing their point guard possibilities – and they are endless, what with the free agent market, the draft and whatever sign-and-trade possibilities might be out there.
Bibby’s status as an unrestricted free agent means he’ll have suitors other than the Hawks capable of presenting him with the opportunity to play at least three or four more years (Bibby’s been around for 11 years but just made 31 today). “The Hawks can get someone that’s a better defender and better distributor at that position, but I don’t know that they’re going to get a better shot maker or a better fit for their
Hey Hawks, what are you going to do with Mike Bibby?
team,” a scout friend told me via email earlier today when I inquired about his assessment of Bibby’s situation with the Hawks. “There’s not a team in the league that doesn’t need a guy who’s going to knock down the big shots he does. And the funny thing is, for all the talk about his big salary this year ($15 million in the final year of his deal), you know you’re going to get him for half that or even less on this next deal. He’ll actually be a bargain on his next deal, compared to what he was.”
Bibby is and remains the biggest question mark of the Hawks’ free agents. If you keep him, his successor has to be located immediately and then groomed (what the Hawks did the past two years with Acie Law IV was anything but grooming him) to eventually take over the starting job. If you decide against keeping Bibby, you almost guarantee that you’ll have to locate your new starter via some sort of trade. Because there is little to no chance of finding a point guard ready to be pressed into immediate starting service in the June draft, not where the Hawks are picking (deep in the first round at either 19 or 20).
The Hawks could pull a fast one and snag their point guard of the future and Bibby’s immediate replacement all at once. But as an Eastern Conference executive explained to me Tuesday morning, they’ll have to find someone else’s “garbage” (it wasn’t garbage in the sense you might think, he meant a guy that someone deemed expendable) and make him their own – sort of like what Cleveland did with Delonte West, who has blossomed into one of the league’s top young attack guards (a point guard in size but whatever he wants to be because of his tenacity and fearlessness). Guys that fit that mold to me, and I think there are plenty, including former Georgia Tech star Jarrett Jack, Lakers backup Jordan Farmar (he’s under contract for the next two years and under siege by Shannon Brown), Milwaukee’s Ramon Sessions (unrestricted free agent and ready for prime time) and Portland’s Sergio Rodriguez (still under contract for another year but clearly expendable with Steve Blake and Jerryd Bayless on the roster). There are
Might former Georgia Tech star Jarrett Jack be in the Hawks' future plans at point guard? We'll find out this summer.
also veterans like Philly’s Andre Miller (unrestricted), Chicago’s Kirk Hinrich (hefty salary for the next three years but absolutely expendable with Derrick Rose at the helm and Ben Gordon an unrestricted free agent), Charlotte’s Raymond Felton (restricted) and Utah’s Ronnie Price (unrestricted).
Again, the Hawks’ options are limitless, especially when you consider that basically half the players on their own roster are free agents of one form or another. But make no mistake, figuring out what to do at point guard remains the Hawks’ highest priority.
And there are several reasons why – the first being their utter refusal to draft the right point guard year after year during the previous regime. The most important, however, is that point guard play in the NBA has become the equivalent of quarterback play in the NFL. Either you have a veteran hand capable of orchestrating almost any situation, a guy that can make everything run smoothly (Kurt Warner anyone) or you have the young phenom (the Falcons’ Matt Ryan comes to mind) that simply will not be denied. If you get caught between those two extremes, you’re gambling with your team’s future.
If you don’t believe quality point guard play can make the absolute difference between mediocre and championship worthy, you should spend a few minutes reading one of the best stories I’ve read about that very subject (courtesy of Tom Friend of ESPN’s Outside The Lines). Seriously, if you don’t do anything else, read this story from top to bottom to see how the right guy at the most important position on the floor (or field) can make all the difference in the world for a team … sort of like Bibby did for the Hawks the last year and a half.
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624 comments Add your comment
darrell starks
May 17th, 2009
9:56 pm
We are consider in the top 5 among the worst city in sports with only 1 championship and thats the 1995 braves im tired of being a mediocrity sports town especially in basketball we must change that and here is and opportunity for us to do that with the right decision.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Big Ray
May 17th, 2009
10:00 pm
darrell starks,
I think that firing a coach “under success” is more about the definition of success than it is about anything else. Flip Saunders was a good coach in my opinion. He was fired DESPITE winning records year after year. The problem was that Detroit defined success as doing more than just having a winning season and making the playoffs every year. They felt that Flip couldn’t get them past doing just that, when they wanted to be in the Eastern Finals every year at the very least (if not contending for the NBA title).
On the flip side, Woody hasn’t even had the chance yet to show he can win in back to back seasons. Firing him means we don’t think he can bring us to a higher level of success than we’ve achieved. Well, in all fairness, letting him alone for the remainder of his contract is the least we can do.
Having said that, if you don’t think we’ll at least maintain current status (or better) this next season, or get better AFTER that (and I’m talking even with adding key pieces to the roster), then I say fire him. Otherwise, firing him now has to be for personal or organizational reasons. And they would be reasons beyond the surface, where things like “improving year after year” are not necessarily what people may think.
Big Ray
May 17th, 2009
10:17 pm
I hope the Magic stomp the Celtics.
darrell starks
May 17th, 2009
10:35 pm
BIG BROTHER RAY i respect your logic of opinion but i have been watching woody now for five years and i no a good coach when i see one and im just not feeling woody on that level of taking this team team to the next level on the other hand detriot decision to fire flip saunders was a dum move not only that dumar decision on trading away chauncy for iverson was another dum move when you had the foundation of that team establish its just some things you dont do and dumar made 2 bad decision.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
darrell starks
May 17th, 2009
10:39 pm
I say pull the plug right now on woody and hire avery johnson.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Astro Joe
May 17th, 2009
10:40 pm
See, if we had kept Lue and AJ, we’d be going to the Eastern Conf. Finals just like the Magic. We had our championship-caliber PGs all along!
Melvin
May 17th, 2009
10:40 pm
Darrell,
Make that 3 bad decisions for Dumars. Don’t forget about the drafting of Darko when he could have drafted Melo, Bosh or Wade….
Astro Joe
May 17th, 2009
10:45 pm
Darrell, you must want to fire Woody because you think that he should do better in the playoffs. So why would you want to hire Avery who has had HISTORIC post-season failure as a head coach?
doc
May 17th, 2009
10:47 pm
aj interesting how the world goes round isnt it?
ray, yup.
also got your wish.
btw, yi is not a three whoever suggested it.
darrell starks
May 17th, 2009
10:49 pm
Why waste another year lets move on to success this city and the fans deserve it.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!
MannyT
May 17th, 2009
10:57 pm
I’m with Barkley–I can see Orlando beating the Cavs.
darrell starks
May 17th, 2009
11:05 pm
AVERY resamay first a good student of the game no how to make adjustment when neccerly won a nba title when playing point guard for santonio took dallas to the championship to loose in game6 to the heat led dallas to the best record in the nba 63-19 but marc silly a$$ cuban made a dum decision and trade devin harris for kidd and byron davis of goldenstate ate his a$$ for lunch that was cuban who made that dum trade and avery said he didnt want kid and for that cuban fire him because he just like jerry jones of the cowboys they both have a ego problem and for that they will allways be loosers.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!
Melvin
May 17th, 2009
11:06 pm
Not sure if David Stern would let the Magic beat the Cavs….
MannyT
May 17th, 2009
11:07 pm
Ray,
Here is my late 1st round counter argument with one disclaimer…Sund has not shown me that the draft is his strength so why would he pick any better here than he did in past stops.
2008 Courtney Lee of Orlando was picked 22nd
2007 Rudy Fernandez of Portland was picked 24th
2006 Rondo was picked 21st
It just depends on the year, but there are always multiple players that make the league that were drafted outside of the lottery
2005 was a fine year.
Starting with the 19th pick all of the following were picked late in the 1st round.
Hakim Warrick
Nate Robinson
Jarret Jack
Francisco Garcia
Jason Maxiell
Linas Kleiza
& David Lee
We have a chance to get a contributor that belongs in the rotation.
BWAF
Melvin
May 17th, 2009
11:08 pm
Doc,
I wouldn’t give up hope on Yi just yet. He may be one of those late developing type players. I mean, he does have all the tools to be a good player…
darrell starks
May 17th, 2009
11:16 pm
o melvin i forgot that one 2.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!
doc
May 17th, 2009
11:32 pm
yeah melvin, i am just waiting in the background on that one just like arioese does on his salim watch. i could say i am a better bet to crow than him …. heh heh … but who really knows.
i assure you ray will be the first to hear it.
The Flash
May 17th, 2009
11:33 pm
Astroman, my thinking is simple. If the Wizards get anything but the one-one in the lottery, and the big big is still available, they have to take him and keep him.
If they do that they must let McKee go if they can get value, either him or the UNC guy but I think it will be McKee.
If McKee is available, then I think that the Hawks HAVE to get him if they do not get Bosh. I do not think that there is a sensible choice here, but to try mightily. Probably would require a three way, but with the big big Washington must retool to run, imo. They also could use Bibby (if Gil doesn’t make it back) and could use to dump Eton. I’ll leave it to guys like you and Andoman to work the details out.
If they don’t get the kid from Okalahoma, they must take the big-big and keep him, they will keep the older of the two centers to start at least through the first half the season, perhaps the entire season, and McKee is superfluous and valuable to any team that needs a center, which Atlanta desparately does.
Big Ray
May 17th, 2009
11:43 pm
Doc,
I’ll still take Horford over Yi for our purposes any day. Even when Yi develops into something better, assuming he does. Put him on this squad with what we have and watch disaster. His relationship with Woody would’ve had us at war with China.
Now, here’s the guy I’m counting on you to be right about: Javaris Crittenton. Always thought you might be right about him vs. Law, but saw the reasoning in choosing Law. Talented young prospects with any hint of rawness are a no-no in the Woody dome.
Big Ray
May 17th, 2009
11:46 pm
MannyT,
I have no arguments with that. We can indeed get a contributor in the draft that belongs in the rotation. My concern is that we DO get such a contributor, and that he is ALLOWED to contribute. Of course, that sparks yet another argument: Speculation on actual prospect talent vs. the Woody Developmental Process.
I’m just sayin’….
niremetal
May 17th, 2009
11:47 pm
Ray/Melvin/cp/etc,
The national media folks don’t know their ass from their elbows when it comes to ASG. Remember all the bullsh!t about us trading Josh and the #3 for Amare a couple years back? The offer probably was never even discussed, a fact that was underlined by the fact that ESPN reported that Belkin blocked the trade (which would have impossible since Belkin had been removed from all team operations by that point).
This is similarly BS. There are 2 reasons for Team A to do a sign-and-trade with Team B instead of signing Team B’s player straight up. Reason 1 – the most common reason – is that Team A doesn’t have the cap space to sign the player on their own. Say that Team A has $5M in cap space; they can’t sign another team’s free agent for more than $5M then. But since teams can re-sign their own players even if that puts them over the cap, a sign-and-trade provides a loophole – technically, Team B re-signs the player, and then ships that player to Team A in a trade in which the salaries match up.
Obviously, that first reason wouldn’t apply at all to a sign-and-trade for cash. If only cash is given back, then the salaries obviously wouldn’t match up. If Team A has only $5M in cap space, trading for a player with a $7M salary would put them over the cap just the same as signing him would.
Reason #2 to do a sign-and-trade if Team A isn’t sure whether Team B would match an offer sheet and doesn’t want to risk it. This was Billy’s reasoning in doing a sign-and-trade for JJ – the Hawks could have signed JJ to an offer sheet without going over the cap, but he was paranoid that Phoenix would match and the Hawks would be left with nothing.
This reasoning rarely makes sense, and would make zero sense in a “player-for-cash” trade. After all, if Team B says that they will let a player go in exchange for cash, that’s a pretty clear signal that Team B doesn’t have the cash to sign the player on their own. So again, a “Marvin-for-cash” would make no sense.
Translation of all this? Some putzes have nothing interesting to write about now that the season has winded down for 26 teams, so they’ve decided to just start making sh!t up. Because I’d be willing to bet $50 and give 50:1 odds that a sign-and-trade of Marvin for cash won’t happen.
Big Ray
May 17th, 2009
11:57 pm
Melvin,
You got Dumars pegged. But as is typical of a GM, he gets to “forget” his mistakes and make wholesale changes to “make up” for them. Heh. After what happened with Billups, he better have some really good moves up his sleeve…
Flash,
Interesting thoughts. I could only hope that it works out that way. McGee is no post enforcer, but he would be a nice addition. The kid is tall (7′0″ in shoes), long (7′6″ wingspan), and athletic as hell.
Big Ray
May 18th, 2009
12:00 am
Okay, Nire. After you pass the BAR, you can bring a class action suit against The New York Daily News on behalf of the blog.
MannyT
May 18th, 2009
12:20 am
Ray, by putting conditions on the draft you take all the fun out of the dreams and squash them with reality. You know reality used to be a friend of mine, but that way awhile back…approximately around PM Dawn
Between Sund and Woody, the most likely positive course of action is trading picks and young players for established vets. Woody probably plays vets and Sund doesn’t get to draft some guy that is 7 ft, but has better career prospects as a window washer than a NBA center.
niremetal–option C on sign & trade. If your team is over the cap, the most you can sign a player for is the mid level exception. Marvin’s tender is more than the MLE. If your team wants to offer him 7 mil as a starting salary, they need to do a sign & trade. That was the problem that Chills had. Other teams wanted him, but Sund wasn’t interested in the S&T or paying Chills more than a MLE contract.
If you S&T or regular trade a guy that has recently signed a contract, there are funky things that happen relative to the way the contract is valued in a trade. Trading a player away in that situation the original team counts 1/2 the value. So if Marvin signed a deal that started at 8 mil, the Hawks trade that away like a 4 mil contract. Now that becomes 3 mil in cash (max per rule) and a 1 mil player +/- 25%. FYI the -25% puts you on a minimum contract guy which is the easiest of throw ins.
I am not saying the Marvin sign & trade is likely, but it is easily possible. If there is a plan out there (that I would generally disagree with) to move Josh to SF, Al to PF and bring in a center (who better be able to shoot like a SF) this is a way to remove Marvin’s tender charge off the cap. That 7 mil is above the MLE, so it could be an attractive method to get someone better than we would expect.
BWAF
niremetal
May 18th, 2009
12:26 am
Manny,
Marvin’s tender hold is not transferable to other players. We can’t sign Marvin, trade him, and end up with more cap space than we started with…
Big Ray
May 18th, 2009
12:34 am
Oooooh. Manny vs. Nire in a financial transaction match. Gonna be a good one. Guess who my money is on? Heh heh heh.
niremetal
May 18th, 2009
12:39 am
Also, your MLE example is basically Option A. It’s just an example of a team not having enough cap space to sign a player, and thus needing to take advantage of the other team’s ability to re-sign that player for more than you can afford.
The rest of your explanation is nonsensical. Marvin’s new contract for $8M would be effective immediately. The Hawks would not be allowed to “trade that away like a 4 mil contract.” You can look at questions 67, 68, 73, and 76 on the “NBA Salary Cap FAQ,” which explains all of this. The short version of the story is that there is no possible way for a team that is over the cap to receive Marvin in a sign-and-trade in which they give up nothing but cash. If Marvin is to be signed for $8M, then a team would not be able to sign him unless they had at least $8M in cash space, and would not be able to trade for him unless they 1) had at least $8M in cap space; or 2) traded away players in exchange for Marvin who salaries totaled at least $6.4M (using the 125% trade exception). There are no ways around that rule that are relevant to a restricted free agent like Marvin.
Big Ray
May 18th, 2009
12:39 am
Love the PM Dawn referrence, Manny.
I’m not down on the draft. Just hoping for better effects/results. We went 1 for 2 in the lottery last time. That shouldn’t happen. And while there are some good talents who should be available at our pick, Sund doesn’t exactly inspire confidence on draft day, and Woody inspires little comes season opener.
But I could be way off base. Sund could pick a good ‘un, and Woody could coach ‘em (and play) ‘em into a bonafide steady contributor.
….and I could win the lottery without buying a ticket. Let’s hope their luck is way better than mine…
niremetal
May 18th, 2009
12:39 am
(Ya like that, Ray – I ramped it up a notch just for you
)
Big Ray
May 18th, 2009
12:41 am
“The rest of your explanation is nonsensical.”
Them there is fightin’ words!
niremetal
May 18th, 2009
12:47 am
and I could win the lottery without buying a ticket. Let’s hope their luck is way better than mine…
Didn’t you ever see “It Could Happen to You?” Stranger things have happened. But nothing so strange as Sund drafting a decent center or Woody properly developing a young guard has ever happened.
Big Ray
May 18th, 2009
12:51 am
Heard THAT…
Big Ray
May 18th, 2009
12:53 am
Manny must have retired for the night. Either that, or he concedes the MFA (Mixed Financial Arts) match to Niremetal. How anti-climactic….
Heh Heh. Where’s Ariose to ramp things back up?
Ariose
May 18th, 2009
1:03 am
…LOL@ all of you.
Manny, all I wanna know is, If we do a S&T with Marvin(I’ll even throw in Acie too) Is getting RUUUDDDDYYY GAAAYYY!!!!(PA Announcer voice) possible?
Also, what about the fact that Bibby is old and we need a PG cornerstone for the future? BWAF???
Big Ray
May 18th, 2009
1:06 am
I like Rudy Gay. But Memphis does need a good reason to get rid of a 20ppg scorer…what would that reason be, and can we provide it…reasonably?
Big Ray
May 18th, 2009
1:08 am
Ariose,
Your guess is as good as mine when it comes to solving the pg situation. Leave it up to Woody, and we will do precisely what we’ve been doing: Bibby starts, Flip subs. Who knows what Sund thinks. He’s as quiet as Billy Knight at the moment.
Speaking of which, I wonder what he and Billy were talking about during that playoff game in which he had Billy over in the executive suite?
MannyT
May 18th, 2009
1:09 am
NONSENSICAL…Where is Dr Seuss when I need him…hmmm
As of the end of the season, the Hawks are under the cap. To figure out how much space they have under the cap, you have to apply the tender charge for restricted free agents (only Marvin) until there is some sort of resolution. So if they wanted to renounce the bird rights on all the other guys, then you still have to include Marvin’s one year tender because he doesn’t get to walk for free.
I could find the specifics, but I’m not going there before Memorial Day…just a personal moratorium. You should be able to find it in one of the Salary Cap sites.
As you went into one of them to do your work, check out the parts on sign and trades. I’d go far enough w/o looking to say that the same thing would happen if you “officially” traded Josh before July 1. (Technically the Hawks won’t be under the cap until the current guys are officially free agents in July.) There was a similar situation in the 2008 draft. I forget who, but the deal wasn’t effective until the player was beyond the first year of his new deal so he would not have that funky application of salary in the trade.
Check the post–I put a player in that trade for Marvin. It was at a 1 mil salary. May not have had the numbers exact, but the basic concept holds. When you trade a player soon after you sign him, the salary amount that you have to match up with in a trade is 1/2 the actual value for the team he leaves.
You can save this and throw it back at me after Memorial Day, but I doubt there will be a need…as long as you don’t judge, before you read
I meant what I said and I said what I meant…
BWAF
MannyT
May 18th, 2009
1:22 am
shame on me for doing something else during the slander instead of patrolling the blog.
I’m back for about 30 mins.
ray, I’m sure part of it was the fraternity of guys with exclusive jobs sharing a chat about the people that BK put here. No need to go through another bad PR summer while he waits out the Marvin RFA. Maybe BK had some insights.
Ariose, I am not digging deep in any of the rules stuff for the next week.
Can we get Rudy Gay. I’d say no, unless the GM in Memphis is trying to get fired. From a cap standpoint it’s easy because he is still on a rookie contract. RandMo + Law or Evans get the money side done. No Marvin needed. If you are real anxious about moving Marvin, I’d suspect that it could happen with him as well, but trickier with his contract.
So the wordplay says Mo Mo (or Mo Law) gets you Gay…no that I am judging in any way
BWAF
Ariose
May 18th, 2009
1:40 am
Ray, I hope Bibby was schooling him on how to draft lol. I’d rather have BK manage our picks than Sund based on his track record. What has the world come to? LOL!
Manny/Ray, thanks for tha insight. All i’m sayin’ is, My gut tells me Marvin will be back, but if Sund does indeed try to trade him, It better be for an upgrade(Gay). I don’t think Ariza is an upgrade. He’d nice, in addtion to having Marvin on the Roster, but by himself, not so much.
Ray, Memphis gave up Pau Gasol. At this point I’m willing to bet if Sund thinks hard enough, he can come up with a way to sucker them into a deal lol. Anaything’s possible with those guys hehehe…How about the rights to Derek Andersen for Gay? It’s just like them Gettin Marc’s rights in exchange for his brother. I’m tellin’ ya, my “sucker” radar is on full alert concerning those guys.
MannyT
May 18th, 2009
1:47 am
Does this mean I won because I’m awake at this hour?
Not that I’m in it for the W…plenty of time for that before the next regular season starts.
On that Dumars thing…I would not be surprised if Woody ended up in Detroit if we let him go. They seem to appreciate him much more up there. I also believe the Woody will be better in his 2nd head coaching job than his first.
BWAF
Big Ray
May 18th, 2009
2:02 am
MannyT,
Yep! You win. At least until the retort comes along, then it’s on again. Or something like that…
As for Memphis trading, I concur. As I said, motivation is needed for trading away such a scoring punch (nevermind that he rebounds and plays defense too).
Ariose,
They let Gasol go for a reason. They’re firmly in their rebuilding phase. They let Lowry go as well, and I believe I know why. Now, they have a center. They could use a real PF, and that’s what they’ll be after, especially considering all they’ve got at that position now is Hakim Warrick (not really a PF), and Darrell Arthur (too early to tell, but not wowing anybody yet). Gay and Mayo are as good a young scoring punch as you are going to get at the SF and SG spots. And they have the perfect pg to run it all in Conley. Why? Because unlike Lowry, Conley doesn’t have to, nor does he need to (and he really just can’t)….shoot. He penetrates, defends, dishes. Nice to have, when you can get it…
Big Ray
May 18th, 2009
2:05 am
Manny,
Again, I agree. Woody will be better in his second job. Most coaches usually are. They learn. And I don’t figure him for acquiring the PJ Carlesimo disease. He’s too smart for that.
But that’s assuming they let him go. I don’t blame Detroit for liking him. Hell, he’d probably like it better there anyway. A GM he knows, players he knows, vets everywhere you look. Right up his alley, and couldn’t blame him.
I gather you are most likely right about Sund/Knight. Consultation is never a bad thing. Unless you’re looking to Amy Winehouse for advice…
MannyT
May 18th, 2009
2:05 am
Ariose, you can accidentally get a good player in a sign & trade, but usually the main guy in the deal is so much better than the guys that come back to the team.
Here’s one for you and niremetal. When Orlando and Seattle (OKC) did the sign & trade for Rashard Lewis and that fat $118 mil contract…the Magic gave up what?
Big Ray
May 18th, 2009
2:05 am
“Ray, I hope Bibby was schooling him on how to draft lol. I’d rather have BK manage our picks than Sund based on his track record. What has the world come to? LOL!”
LOL…
Big Ray
May 18th, 2009
2:10 am
Manny,
Yeah that’s true. The main guy is usually more talented. But there is always a reason behind it. The general, all-purpose answer is asset management. You need to move the player, usually because what he wants to get paid isn’t worth the production you get out of him, he doesn’t fit, etc. Nearly always about the money in some way, shape, or form.
And the guys you get in return (or at least the bulk thereof) are guys you are okay with taking on as assets. They either fit what you are putting on the court, or they are useful in other ways. Usually. Not always. Sometimes you just acquire them because they give you cap space in the end.
Big Ray
May 18th, 2009
2:11 am
Here’s one for you and niremetal. When Orlando and Seattle (OKC) did the sign & trade for Rashard Lewis and that fat $118 mil contract…the Magic gave up what?
Ah. Good one…
MannyT
May 18th, 2009
2:19 am
Short answer…nothing but leverage.
In fact it was a conditional 2nd round pick and a big old trade exception. The things you can do when you are under the cap!
If I am correct, that big old trade exception allowed them to do that magic beans trade with Phoenix. Seattle was forced to take Kurt Thomas and 2 first round picks from the Suns for a 2nd round pick. If Phoenix stinks next year, that could become something big.
BWAF
Ariose
May 18th, 2009
2:20 am
Manny, The Magic sent Seattle a conditional second-round pick, while the SuperSonics earned a trade exception believed to be in the $9 million range. I was very angry about that.
On the flip-side Lewis said back then that there wasn’t much of a difference between the Magic and the Cavs(who had just been swept by the spurs in the finals). He also said the Magic would rise top the top of the east quickly and contend for a title. Well, he’s 1/2 so far. Let’s see how he fares against LeBron. Time to put your money(all 118 million of it) where your mouth is Sweet Lou.
Ariose
May 18th, 2009
2:22 am
Manny, NO FAIR! You answered too quickly! Hehehehe….
Ariose
May 18th, 2009
2:34 am
Otis was either going to look really smart or reall stupid. So far,it’s going good. We’ll see what happens in the ECF though. That Move took some realbress though. It helps when you havea supportive owner though heh.