Stand up Hawks!
It's time for the Hawks to stand up, stand together and show the world that they belong.
WITNESSVILLE - Now is not the time Hawks.
And the postseason is certainly not the appropriate place to come apart at the seams.
The Cleveland Cavaliers don’t need the assist.
So to hear the Hawks talk of not “sharing the ball” and needing to “attack from all over” screams of a team in need of reconstitution (and if you don’t like what you hear coming from the Hawks’ locker room since their Game 1 loss to King James and his crew that’s a good thing, because you shouldn’t).
It’s not something that can be done by a coach or general manager intervening. It’s also not something that can be fixed with one of those trendy players’ only team meetings or any of the other conventional tools used by most NBA teams.
This is a calculated regeneration of a team that can only come from individual catharsis, and the Hawks need it to happen 15 times in 15 different rooms at the tony Ritz-Carlton at Tower Center (where NBA soul searching goes on regularly in this city) before Game 2 of this Eastern Conference semifinal tonight at the Q (the arena better known as King James’ Camelot).
As meticulous AJC wordsmith Mark Bradley points out, the choice to either fight back or get smashed, belongs to the Hawks.
Each loss the Hawks have suffered this postseason has been uglier than the one before it. The average margin of defeat (24.2 points) is preposterous at best, and an affront to the game at it’s core.
No playoff team capable of winning a seven-game series, as the Hawks have already done, should be on the receiving end of tail-whippings of 15, 29, 26 and 27 points, respectively. Those lopsided efforts speak to a team that, despite nearly eight months in the fox hole together, still does not trust each other completely, a team that can’t muster the collective energy and focus to at least make a loss respectable as opposed to making themselves a spectacle.
The first thing you hear in the Hawks’ locker room after a bad loss is, “We didn’t play together. We didn’t help each other out. We’ve got to blah, blah, blah.”
If you think I’m making this stuff up, here’s a sampling (edited ever so slightly to omit the verbal offender’s specific identity) of what’s come out of the mouths of your Hawks after playoff losses the past few weeks:
“We just have to play with a sense of urgency like we did in Game 1. We have to get after them defensively. And as long as we share the ball offensively, I think everything else on the floor clicks.”
“We’re up against it now. And we’ve got look at ourselves in the mirror and realize that we can’t get out of this mess without doing it together.”
“We’ve just got to pick up our intensity. We’ve got to do a lot of things. But it all stems from our effort. We have to play hard as a unit. That’s the key for us. And we have to bring that [today]. Because our backs are against the wall now, really against the wall. We’re going to see what this team is made of.”
“We came out and talked about hitting them first and not letting things get out of hand early like they did in Game 2. But we let them hit us first again.”
“We lost our composure, no doubt. Things weren’t going our way, calls weren’t going our way and we lost it. We let them build that big lead and it got to us. We were never in sync defensively and we just didn’t handle ourselves well.”
“In the second half we just didn’t get into any offensive sets. We were careless with the ball. We had too many turnovers. Any time we have 17 turnovers it’s never a good night for us.”
“It was very disappointing, knowing that we’ve come this far. Looking back on the first series that we had (with Miami), that was very tough, and I thought we would come into this game a little more enthused and come ready to play. I thought we had a pretty good first half, but the second half wasn’t so great.”
It never fails.
Whenever things go sideways for the Hawks they all start speaking French (”We, We”). For once, it would be nice to hear someone talk about what “I could have done” or that “I didn’t give my team” what it needed?
Whatever the Hawks do, they'll have to do it without Marvin Williams and Al Horford at full strength.
On paper, there’s no way the Hawks should do anything more than annoy the Cavaliers for a few games. Al Horford’s sprained right ankle won’t allow him to play at full strength during these playoffs.
Marvin Williams has a wrist injury that followed his late-season back injury, shredding what was easily his best (and breakout) season as a pro.
So no one is expecting these Hawks to shock the world.
But these Hawks have defied paper logic since training camp, including making a return trip to the playoffs whenever publication on the planet predicted they would not.
That they’ve made it this far, even with all the setbacks, is a testament to the resolve of this stubborn but flawed bunch.
Just how stubborn they are and just how flawed they are will come into better focus as this series continues, be it three more games or more.
Whatever happens, the time has come for these Hawks to dispense with all the locker room rhetoric and simply play the game like a team that belongs. Play it for 48 minutes, with the required fire in the belly and without any remorse.
Anything else is an injustice to those who have watched this team evolve from the 13-69 train wreck of a four years ago into the promising bunch that has defied all the odds the last year.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
645 comments Add your comment
Astro Joe
May 8th, 2009
5:41 pm
Cleveland fans, act like you’ve been to a Finals before and show some class… even if you have to fake it.
Sautee
May 8th, 2009
5:50 pm
cleveland,ohio..216,
You are in for a bigger disappointment than you realize. I personally think that the Cavs will win the title this year. Oh Joy, until you realize that Bron Bron, having BROUGHT a title to Cleveland, is now free to leave for Brooklyn in 2010.
Enjoy him while you can. It won’t be for long.
darrell starks
May 8th, 2009
5:52 pm
KEN your right we have been telling Woody all year to devolop your bench and he never did that this is what happen when you run your starter in the ground and play joe 41min a game more than any player in the nba look at the CAVS thats why they have so much energy because they go 10man deep and his starter stayed fresh all year when will WOODY learn.
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Trent
May 8th, 2009
7:04 pm
BY EAST ATLANTA HAWKS FAN
“Zaza Pachulia, a bulldog who scuffled with seemingly every Miami Heat player in the first round, taps Mo Williams on the chest, acknowledging that he fouled him in the second quarter. Maurice Evans, his team trailing by 18 less than 18 minutes into the game, extends a hand to James, picking him up after fouling him on a drive to the basket.”
Sounds to me like our players have class. But a moron like you would not understand something like that.
enott.
May 8th, 2009
7:11 pm
The inconsistent play, the lack of effort offensively or defensively,the lack of effective and efficent play calling. Results in players not believing in each other, the coaches or the coaching system. And this makes the entire team look foolish. this is the absolute worst playoff series of any sport that I’ve ever seen…. It should be evident to someone in the hawks front office by now that a new direction is needed, if only because of the magnitude of embarrsement being displayed on a national stage. But maybe loosers are accustomed to nothing more than loosing.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 8th, 2009
7:33 pm
If y’all want to dwell in fantasy land and talk offseason acquisitions, why do you keep bringing up players like Amare and Bosh who are no more legit championship-team-carrying superstars than Joe Johnson? Do you really think bringing in either one of them here to pair with Joe Johnson puts this team on the same level as the Cavs, Celtics, and Lakers?
Y’all need to aim higher. With the economy in its current state and small market teams hemorrhaging money, all it takes is the willingness to take on one or two bad contracts to seriously upgrade the starting five with a legit superstar. I’m looking squarely at the New Orleans Hornets, who play in one of the league’s smallest and most fragile markets, just got waxed even worse than the Hawks in the playoffs, are keeping their coach solely because they don’t want to pay another one, and have three hideous contracts (Peja Stojakovic, Tyson Chandler, and Morris Peterson) on the books. They are currently set to pay about $75 million in 2010 to the same team that just lost by 58 at home in the first round.
If the Hawks dangled Joe Johnson, Al Horford, Acie Law, Speedy Claxton’s expiring contract and this year’s first rounder to the Hornets in exchange for Chris Paul, Tyson Chandler, Morris Peterson, and a throw-in like Julian Wright, I wouldn’t be surprised if it got the Hornets to at least sit up and pay attention. A core of CP3 at the point with Josh and a re-signed Marvin on the wings, Tyson Chandler at center, and the current bench plus Peterson and Wright wouldn’t be much of a dropoff, if at all, from the current Hawks squad. I would think if Chris Paul can drag the steaming pile of feces that is his current supporting cast to 49 wins in the West, he can surely match that number in the East with two talented and athletic forwards supporting him. The Hornets in exchange get a little less top-heavy in terms of talent and much more financially flexible, with the possibility of still being a playoff team if Acie Law pans out. (I didn’t check to see if salaries match up perfectly, but I think they are probably pretty close).
Is it far-fetched? Maybe a little, but then again, so was Al Jefferson + a pile of stinking garbage for Kevin Garnett. Would George Shinn, the Hornets owner, consider this deal, considering the Hornets’ financial situation? I would think so, considering that he tried to give away Chandler to the Thunder during the stretch run, only to be denied by a failed physical.
We keep whining about not having a true superstar… well, CP3 sure is one, and if the DASG is willing to swallow a couple of bad contracts for the next few years and get creative, it may be more likely than you might think for them to acquire him. At the very least, if they (like many people posting on this blog) see the current team’s ceiling as being below that of a true title contender, it would probably be smart to pick up the phone and try.
Aiight, that’s enough fantasy world for me. I’ll reserve the possible trade scenarios and what not until after these playoffs are over for the Hawks.
Blast
May 8th, 2009
7:54 pm
Melvin, RMS
My bad on throwing church and a curse word together. Wasn’t too shocked at the score, was just shocked they said Joe was injured. Then, I didn’t think ‘damn’ was that bad a curse word!
It was nice to see the full bench play last night, and give it to those guys, they showed HEART. They could easily have allowed the game to get out of hand and embarass Woody for not playing them all year, but they were ultimate pros, unlike the starters. All Mario need to do all summer is practice shooting the basketball.
If Woody had developed his bench more, Joe wouldn’t be playing tired and hurt now, we wouldn’t have so many injuries to key players. But then what can you do? Woody was hell bent on keeping his job, so he wore out his starters in other to gain home court in the first round and win that series. Mission Accomplished. So we stop playing in the semi’s?
Hawks lose game 3 and it’s a sweep. But we all knew Hawks wouldn’t win this series, I just want them to compete!
Blowing this team up makes no sense. They were blown up five years ago, now you have a core group to build on. What you do is improve the team by addition and subtraction. This season and playoffs are enough for Sund to know what the team needs. Hawks glaring weakness from the 5 position for example.
Truth is, LeBron and co are good enough without needing help from refs. It just shows how conditioned the NBA refs are to calling the game in favor of their team, regardless how large the lead is, or how badly the team not getting calls are playing. Does the NBA really want blowout games in their playoffs?
I would be mad if Hawks do not send LeBron crashing to the ground before the series is over. At least once. One very good, very tough, playoff foul. Legal, but hard as hell. Mario, knock down the ‘king’.
LeBron so strong though, dude might just bounce back up.
rms
May 8th, 2009
7:58 pm
Blast, thats okay its just watching the Hawks during the playoffs is what keep the T.V. repairman in business!!!
Big Ray
May 8th, 2009
8:06 pm
Cj Steele,
No offense, but I’ll take Joe Johnson over Tracy McGrady ANY day. McGrady never could get his team out of the first round, despite numerous attempts. Plus, he’s got a bad back, and the team seems to play much better without him (they’re out of the first round now, aren’t they?).
After the way he did Houston, you can have him. Hell, I’d rather have Gilbert Arenas, another monumental waste of money…
Blast
May 8th, 2009
8:24 pm
Check out AJ and Tyron Lue, former Hawks shinning in Orlando playoffs.
rms
May 8th, 2009
8:26 pm
did any one hear Sekou on the radio this afternoon? I keep hearing the same comments about dealing with the Hawks offseason moves and what to do next. In my opinion its obvious that we cannot continue with the current roster we have. Either Woodson has to go or shifting some players around must happen. You cannot keep the everything the same and think the next time around you can get 50 wins. Time to raise the bar guys and start talking going deep in the playoffs and contend for a NBA TITLE, dare I say.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 8th, 2009
8:29 pm
Yeah, pretty strange that T-Lue, Anthony Johnson, and the Popcorn Bandit may all be going farther in the playoffs than Mike Bibby, the guy for whom they were traded.
Not that I regret that trade at all, just saying…
Big Ray
May 8th, 2009
8:34 pm
Melvin,
I don’t feel so bad now, knowing that a REAL writer (who actually does it for a job) like Bradley, is making grammatical errors as well…..heh heh heh.
Kirk,
I think that’s pretty damn balanced, expectation-wise. Something has to happen this summer, and it will be something that will make some of us unhappy. Such is life, and such is sports. I’d like to say that I’m prepared for just about anything (including “nothing” happening, though that’s technically not possible), but you know how that goes. The minute I say that is the minute that the very thing I dismissed will happen. I think it will be interesting and informative, as you say.
Excellent comment on the point guard position, by the way. I think you have it pegged there, as any talk of how a roster is constructed usually begins at that position. Certainly on a team like ours.
Najeh,
All I can say is “wow.” Interesting lineup ideas. Like Chandler, but hate to lose Horford, who although I feel is a natural PF, has more skills than Chandler, though Chandler is a natural center. Chandler and Smith make for a nasty shot-blocking combo, and rebounding combo if Josh stays after the boards. Julian Wright gives you an option with Marvin (especially for those disappointed in Marvin), and better size/talent if he’s coming off the bench…than Mo Evans.
But who is playing the SG spot for us? Mo Pete? Hmmmm. Then there’s a question of how this all works with Woody (and we’d need to re-tool the bench again, while we’re at it). Still, that’s an interesting thought, especially if you’re up to “gutting” the roster.
I’m sure your suggestion will get shot all to pieces, but that’s what happens to all suggestions, right?
?
josh smith
May 8th, 2009
8:40 pm
SO MAKE UP YOUR MINDS DO YOU WANT ME TO SHOOT THE THREE OR NOT OOPS I JUST SHOT A THREE SORRY WOODY
Blast
May 8th, 2009
8:54 pm
Orlando Magic versus the Cleveland Cavaliers in the East finals. Y’all know I will be rooting for the Magic. Now, that is one team I do not think the Cavs can run all over.
I’m picking Houston Rockets to come out tops in the West. Wouldn’t that just ruin the leagues dream match up?
bigeasy830
May 8th, 2009
9:01 pm
It ain’t over till the fat lady sings. I know she is warming up and the band is playing the interlude, but it still ain’t over yet. I will be in the highlight factory cheering my behind off.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 8th, 2009
9:02 pm
“Like Chandler, but hate to lose Horford, who although I feel is a natural PF, has more skills than Chandler, though Chandler is a natural center.”
I agree with all this… I’m honestly not a big Chandler fan, but there’s no way the Hawks can acquire CP3 unless they take on one or more of those three contracts, and Chandler easily gives you more bang for the buck than Peja Stojakovic. And for all his faults, at least he has played with CP3 for a few years and is big enough and strong enough to be a force on the boards and body up opposing centers.
“But who is playing the SG spot for us? Mo Pete? Hmmmm.”
In the long run, the Hawks would have to acquire a better SG, maybe in the 2010 draft. There’s no question this trade would leave the Hawks weak at that position. The positive thing is that the three best players on the team — CP3, Marvin, and Josh — would be locked in for 5 or 6 years, giving the Hawks plenty of time to find a SG who would be the missing piece to the puzzle.
“Then there’s a question of how this all works with Woody (and we’d need to re-tool the bench again, while we’re at it). ”
True… with Woody you never know what you’re going to get. I don’t think the bench would necessarily need to be re-tooled… the current Hawks would probably try to sign Flip and Zaza this offseason anyway, and if they can’t they will probably look to find similar players in free agency. So in that sense I don’t think the approach would change. And of course, I haven’t mentioned Josh Childress at all — clearly he would be a valuable asset either as a player or a trade piece.
“Still, that’s an interesting thought, especially if you’re up to “gutting” the roster. ”
I’m actually not up to gutting the roster. I don’t think two short-handed blowout losses to a far superior team on the road indicate that this roster needs to be gutted. But since the topic of discussion on this blog has swung that way, I do think that if the Hawks go down that road, they should go after a legit team-carrying superstar like Chris Paul, as opposed to someone like Amare or Chris Bosh who are not really at much higher a level than Joe Johnson.
bigdave
May 8th, 2009
9:04 pm
Nejah…
CP3 is a Hornet until he wants out…
what makes Paul more battle tested, or more championship mettle than a Bosh or a Amare… we need a low post threat… teams can double our perimeter game because nobody on the block, in the paint, down in the trenches strikes fear in the hearts of opposition..
im not saying that Amare or Bosh are post terrors but they are polished low post scorers and will make it impossible to double. these guys get the ball and attack quickly. no hesitation, deliberate assault. they have established games and play within themselves. been doing it since they came into the league. Josh is untouchable in my eyes.. but Horford… i woulda pulled the trigger in Feb.
bigdave
May 8th, 2009
9:05 pm
damn… spelled your name wrong…
Big Ray
May 8th, 2009
9:06 pm
Blast,
Not only would that ruin the tv broadcast conspiracy plans, but just think….Tracy McGrady gets a ring…for doing nothing. Punk-ass…
Big Ray
May 8th, 2009
9:07 pm
But his team would go all the way without him playing, so he couldn’t say jack, seeing as how he never got them out of the first round, promises and all.
Sautee
May 8th, 2009
9:07 pm
Good point, Najeh
bigdave
May 8th, 2009
9:08 pm
whhhhhhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuttt………….?
BOSH IS BEASTLY MAN….
ARE U KIDDING ME…
Najeh Davenpoop
May 8th, 2009
9:10 pm
“damn… spelled your name wrong…”
Ain’t like it’s my real name or anything, so don’t really care, haha…
Najeh Davenpoop
May 8th, 2009
9:10 pm
Anyone else watching Anthony Johnson scrapping with Stan Van Gundy? The TV’s on mute so I don’t know what’s going on, but damn… wonder what the reaction would be here in the ATL if it was J-Smoove and Woody…
Blast
May 8th, 2009
9:17 pm
So right, Ray. Tracy gets a ring for doing nothing. That was a good one!
Najeh Davenpoop
May 8th, 2009
9:19 pm
Bosh is a 22-10 guy. Nothing to sneeze at, obviously. But what has he done in the NBA that Joe Johnson hasn’t? Has he carried a team beyond the first round? No…
And this year with no D’Antoni, Amare was a 21-8 guy. Again, nothing to sneeze at. But Phoenix was the 9th best team in the conference most of the year until he got injured, and he’s been a bad defender his entire career. From a “making his team better” standpoint, what does he provide that Joe Johnson doesn’t?
I’m not trying to hate on either of these players. I just don’t know if having two Joe Johnson-caliber players at the expense of some of the team’s young talent makes this team any better in the long run than having one Joe Johnson-caliber player with the current young talent around him.
Chris Paul, on the other hand, has taken his team to seven games in the 2nd round as his team’s unquestioned best player. That’s one thing he can say that Bosh and Amare cannot. He can say he has been to the 2nd round with a clearly inferior supporting cast, something Amare definitely cannot say, since he has played nearly his entire career with a two-time MVP, and something Bosh definitely cannot say, since his team bowed out in the first round in his only playoff years.
To me, CP3 has clearly established himself as a guy who will instantly transform a mediocre team into a playoff team. I don’t think Bosh and Amare have proven that yet.
bigdave
May 8th, 2009
9:21 pm
true… haha…
bout time somebody check Stan Gundy… the more i watch him the more i agree with Shaq..
he overreacts, and its almost as if he craves the attention. plus he throws his players under the bus. like Jeff way more…
Big Ray
May 8th, 2009
9:23 pm
Najeh,
Sorry, didn’t mean to sound like I was accusing you of gutting the roster, but such a move tends to look that way. And I’m not damning it, because as you say, any deal going after a guy like that involves taking on bad contracts. If Billy Knight were still here, you’d never see a deal like that for two reasons: 1) The bad contracts involved, and 2)Involving a pg he unceremoniously passed over in the draft…but enough of a history lesson.
I certainly understand your idea behind the “legit team-carrying” type of guy. The only logical question behind it of course, is how good can this guy be for a totally different coach, with some different players. There are chemistry questions here (both with players AND coaches), but again, I realize all of this is fantasy thought, so no need to delve too deeply there.
The only point of possible debate here is involving what kind of player to go after. CP3 is a legit star, and he solves a major question at pg. But I wouldn’t dump too quickly on a guy like Bosh. Stoudamire has some issues, but is a legit talent. I think Bosh is a better fit, and he brings you numbers somewhat similar to a young Kevin Garnett, though less of a defensive force. I think putting him alongside a guy like Joe, but obviously spaced down low (opposite of Joe) makes us pretty potent. Especially if we have a steady pg (another question).
I think we would see a much different set of results from Joe if he wasn’t getting doubled all the time. He’s one of the hardest guys to stop one-on-one, and he doesn’t even have the pure athletic ability of an LBJ, Kobe, or Wade. But he’s tricky as hell, and strong for his position.
Again, fun debate, as going either way is making a splash. CP3 gives us an answer at the pg position in a conference (even a league) that is getting stronger at that position every time I turn around. And, he’s unquestionably a leader, something we are lacking right now. Bosh gives us an all-star low post presence with range, and somebody who’s willing to share the heavier burden as a team leader by stats. We’d still need an unquestioned leader/captain of the team. So I can see where you’re going with this…
Big Ray
May 8th, 2009
9:25 pm
LOL!
Najeh,
You forget. Anthony Johnson also fought with Woody. Hell, when he was here, he totally left the building one time, during practice.
JASon
May 8th, 2009
9:29 pm
People need to stop over-reacting: we’ve had key players out this series. And the cavs are a great team. Nobody is perfect, and the hawks have always played much better at home. You’re not going to change that, so just accept it.
We made it to the second round, for chrissakes. We need to stand behind this team instead of saying oh get rid of such and such…
Najeh Davenpoop
May 8th, 2009
9:29 pm
“I think we would see a much different set of results from Joe if he wasn’t getting doubled all the time. He’s one of the hardest guys to stop one-on-one, and he doesn’t even have the pure athletic ability of an LBJ, Kobe, or Wade.”
This is all very true. Joe’s definitely capable of putting up better numbers if he’s facing single coverage… but then again, that’s one of the things that separates the true, team-carrying superstars from the mere stars…
Blast
May 8th, 2009
9:32 pm
Loving this, man! Magic blowing the hated Celtics out of the water!
Najeh Davenpoop
May 8th, 2009
9:32 pm
“I think Bosh is a better fit”
So do I. If we were picking between going after Bosh or Amare, I’d definitely take Bosh, as much for the intangibles as anything else. Amare’s never been the centerpiece of his team; he’s never had to take on any kind of leadership role with Nash and Shaq in the locker room. I wouldn’t want to try that experiment on him at this point in his career. But I definitely think a CP3-led team can contend for a title. I still have my doubts as to whether a Bosh-led team can do the same.
Like you said though, it makes for an interesting debate…
bigdave
May 8th, 2009
9:36 pm
thats the thing though… another “Joe Johnson” for some young unproven talent. all Joe needs is another Joe meaning someone with equal ability. all Marvin, and Al are is talent.. thats all i see.. as far as numbers go, who does Bosh have around him…? Amare had to share touches with Shaq… and most of the year they were playing a style of basketball that didn’t compliment talent (remind you of something).
i cant say that Paul carried that team.. i mean, if he got them out off Denver then sure (got swept and poor numbers). he has a cast brother.. Mr. WEST, a big who can score the ball.. thats all a distributer needs… plus shooters around him with a big man that controls the paint.
Amare, theoretically would “go ham” on this conference… as far as the defensive argument that everyone presents… the guy was never taught (meaning a coach stressed or cared) defense… his alphabets go; A..B..C…E…
the question is not what have these guys done that Joe hasnt? its what would these guys do with Joe… the help that Joe asked for every year in my eyes was never granted…
besides.. Joe just started making the playoffs with regularity… and Paul just got into the league… we’ll see how far he can take them when they break up that team do to good ole’ recession…
Big Ray
May 8th, 2009
9:36 pm
Najeh,
You make some very compelling points. As you say, CP3 is an unquestioned leader and a guy who makes his team/teammates better. He can score 30+, but he’ll also get double figures in assists.
Neither Bosh nor Amare can claim to have done so much for their teams, but to be honest, it’s not about acquiring THAT type of player. I think both guys belong in the category of very good players that need another very good player on the team with them to make the team a contending team. The problem in Phoenix definitely was chemistry and coaching, amongst other things.
Bosh brings a lot, though, and he brings it having been through what JJ goes through: double teams, and being nearly the sole focus of his own team’s offense. I like him better than Stoudamire, as he has a more versatile game and plays with more competitive fire on a consistent basis. That, and he would probably be a more positive addition to team chemistry than Stoudamire.
No, Bosh hasn’t carried a team as far as CP3. But then, the last two big men I’ve seen carry a team like that were named Shaq and Duncan. And they BOTH had more help than Bosh has. Even Dwight Howard can’t say he’s in that elite category…yet. But we’re watching that era begin as we speak.
I like the idea of getting CP3, and I think a deal like that would have to get George Shinn’s ears perked up. Except, while saving money, he’d be trying to figure out how to rebuild. Because I don’t see a player like JJ sticking around down there. He’d be gone in a year. And the last guy to trade away a young, top level point guard is known as Mark Cuban. And he’s been looking like an ass for it ever since, despite landing an aged Jason Kidd. Mavs aren’t going anywhere, while Devin Harris blows up the East. Heh. You don’t trade franchise-level point guards. Not unless you’re crazy, or have one hell of an encore coming…
Big Ray
May 8th, 2009
9:38 pm
“but then again, that’s one of the things that separates the true, team-carrying superstars from the mere stars”
Can’t argue with that, my friend.
Big Ray
May 8th, 2009
9:40 pm
Bigdave,
I do agree with that point. Due to recession, what CAN the Hornets do to make the team around Paul better? And if they can’t figure it out in time, he’ll want out. That’s one of the areas that Najeh’s argument really stands out. However realistic or unrealistic we may think it is.
Big Ray
May 8th, 2009
9:43 pm
Najeh,
That is another good point. It raises a question. On a team featuring Johnson and Bosh, WHO IS THE LEADER? Bosh has more fire. Joe was the guy signed to be “the man.” Which defers? Would it be a 70-30, 80-20, or a 60-40? Would Joe mind giving up his “favored pupil” status? I mean, I’m not trying to dog Joe, but outside of Bibby, he has the most leeway with Woody, while also being ridden hard and put up wet…
Blast
May 8th, 2009
9:43 pm
Out of all the 8 teams left in the playoffs, Hawks and Mavericks are clearly the weakest. Coincidence that they are 0-2?
Najeh putting up some interesting points, man.
bigdave
May 8th, 2009
9:46 pm
exactly Ray…
yea guys… definitely beats talking 20+ whoopings…
but all in all as far as the year is concerned.. yea we living in fantasy land playing GM’s and speculating, but we would definitely need our heads checked if we couldnt collectively agree that we over achieved this year..
i mean, we did the same things night end and night out, with the same 7 (for the most part) guys, and still managed to win 40+… wow…
i could never dump on Joe, or Josh.. cause for one, they get ALL the heat, and secondly.. hell they simply DO (are called on, have to bail us out) the most. Joe on offense, Josh on D.. and sometimes they switch… Joe on D, on Josh on offense… with minimal talent and breathers..
i watched Joe play the whole 1st qrt. and halfway into the 2nd last game.. and when he shot those free throws.. i said.. “short”… and it was clear…
I JUST DONT THINK JOE IS AS “SOFT AND HEARTLESS” OR JOSH IS AS “STUPID” as folk like to make it seem… you put one of those caliber players around those two.. with a PG who sees the floor, can penetrate, and defend… i see contention…
Najeh Davenpoop
May 8th, 2009
9:55 pm
“thats the thing though… another “Joe Johnson” for some young unproven talent. all Joe needs is another Joe meaning someone with equal ability. all Marvin, and Al are is talent..”
Do you think the Hawks can get a Bosh or an Amare using only Marvin or Al as trading chips? In my opinion, either one of those teams would be crazy to trade those players without asking for Josh Smith in return. He’s easily the most talented of the Hawks’ young front court draftees, and he’s also accomplished by far the most.
If all it took was Marvin and Al to get Bosh or Amare, I’m on board too. Replacing Marvin and Al at SF and C with Bosh/Amare and (insert athletic role player like J-Chill here) is an obvious upgrade. I just don’t think that’s realistic though. And if we’re talking about giving up Josh, I think he’s an adequate right-handed dribble and a reliable mid-range jumper away from being a double-team-drawing 21-8 post player himself, so at that point I wonder whether such a trade would be worth it, especially when you consider that Josh is signed to a pretty reasonable long-term deal.
“he has a cast brother.. Mr. WEST, a big who can score the ball.. thats all a distributer needs… plus shooters around him with a big man that controls the paint.”
I’m not at all a fan of West, Chandler, Stojakovic or any of the other players CP3 has on his supporting cast, but I guess that’s a difference of opinion that neither one of us can prove one way or another. To me West is a lot like Carlos Boozer, a guy with some offensive skills who looks a LOT better than he really is thanks to his MVP-caliber teammate. Stojakovic and Rasual Butler are stand-still shooters who contribute very little other than 3-balls. Chandler is a physical player who crashes the boards and provides some defense but he is meaningless offensively and most of his points come on dunks and put-backs. I just think running pick and rolls with CP3, catching alley-oops from CP3, and camping out on the 3 point line waiting for CP3 to penetrate, draw defensive attention, and kick out a perfect pass to the perimeter makes all those players look a lot better than they really are.
Big Ray
May 8th, 2009
9:56 pm
Heh! And you’d think it would be Dwight Howard who was mauling the Celtics.
Oh no. It’s Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu. I love it!!
Sautee
May 8th, 2009
9:57 pm
I guess all of this conjecture supposes that Woodson is still here. If that’s the case, then we should be including draft picks and possibly Acie in any trade proposal, since they would be otherwise wasted as benchwarmers. Asset management, folks.
JoeBrave
May 8th, 2009
9:59 pm
Any way the Marx brothers can end this embarrasment tomorrow night?? To hell with this sickly bunch of sissy-assed QUITTERS!!!!!!!1
Najeh Davenpoop
May 8th, 2009
10:00 pm
“If that’s the case, then we should be including draft picks and possibly Acie in any trade proposal, since they would be otherwise wasted as benchwarmers.”
No doubt, and if the Hawks do decide to make big trades this offseason, let’s hope there are NBA GMs who feel, as many of us do, that Acie can still develop into a very good NBA point guard.
Sautee
May 8th, 2009
10:01 pm
Najeh, I realize that YOUR original proposal included Acie and a 1st
Najeh Davenpoop
May 8th, 2009
10:02 pm
As satisfying as it is to see the Celtics get routed, it would be even more satisfying if they were losing like that at full strength. Seeing Dwight own Kevin Garnett would be that much better.
JoeBrave
May 8th, 2009
10:03 pm
Why is everyone on the Joe Johnson bandwagon??? All i saw last night was a Quiet Quitter, with no heart,no guts,and no legs left!!!
wheelchaired out with a sprained ankle!!!C’Mon Joe grow a pair ,and learn how to be tough!!!!
Big Ray
May 8th, 2009
10:03 pm
I JUST DONT THINK JOE IS AS “SOFT AND HEARTLESS” OR JOSH IS AS “STUPID” as folk like to make it seem… you put one of those caliber players around those two.. with a PG who sees the floor, can penetrate, and defend… i see contention…
Very strong point, Bigdave.