Legitimize your rise Hawks!
HAWKSVILLE - The Hawks are running out of chances to show everyone and to prove to everyone that they are the team they think they are, the team we thought they were a couple weeks ago.
It's show and prove time for Joe Johnson and the Hawks with Kobe Bryant's Los Angeles Lakers in town.
Three losses in their last four games, all three to teams among the NBA’s elite, have stirred up the doubters. And rightfully so.
So what can the Hawks do to legitimize their rise?
Just beat the Los Angeles Lakers today.
That’s all.
Just knock off arguably the best team in the league with the best player on the planet (according to most folks that would be one Kobe B. Bryant, though the LeBron James camp has a convincing argument for their guy these days).
In losses in Cleveland and to San Antonio and Boston in the last week, all the Hawks did was prove their doubters right about their inability to rise up to the challenge of facing the league’s best.
They were running on fumes minutes into the game in Cleveland last weekend. And they haven’t played their best since then, not even in a win over Minnesota Monday night and certainly not in the momentary spurts of quality play against the Tim Duncan-less Spurs and Kevin Garnett-less Celtics.
So what happened to the team with all that swagger we saw during that seven-game homestand?
“We’ve got to get that back,” said Hawks swingman Mo Evans. “Because if a team with Kobe on it smells any fear or lack of confidence, Kobe’s going to pounce. He won’t hesitate to take the game over anyway. But for a team that’s trying to stomp with the big boys, he’ll take that as a challenge and try and destroy ‘em”
Evans knows that as well as anyone. He played with the Lakers and saw Bryant’s drive first hand. He also started on an Orlando team last year that made the difficult climb from postseason dreamer to legitimate elite team.
That gives him a unique perspective on the Hawks’ current predicament.
Evans knows it takes a collective mettle that the Hawks have yet to display consistently to join the big boys, having played with a little bit of everyone during his time in the league.
Mo Evans knows it takes toughness to play with the big boys.
There have been spurts, and nobody can argue with a winning season after a decade of ugliness, but never enough of it on a daily basis to warrant their inclusion into the conversation about the league’s very best teams (and yes, a 3-12 record against the top three teams in the Eastern and Western Conference qualifies as the empirical data needed to prove that point).
Mike Bibby insists that Friday’s game against the Celtics wasn’t a statement game or anything of the sort, because the Hawks want to “win every game.” His reasoning: “We’re are still in the fourth spot and we can’t hang our heads. We just need to keep playing and try to keep the fourth spot.”
That’s exactly why these games against the Cavaliers, Celtics and Lakers are “statement” or “message” games. You win those games and you lock up the fourth spot and legitimize your rise all in the same stroke.
UNDER THE LIGHTS
For those of you that just can’t get enough for these Hawks, there’s an interesting show airing tonight on Fox SportSouth at 6:30, after the Hawks-Lakers game.
It’s a 30-minute snapshot of a NBA life called Under the Lights-Hawks Road Trip. There’s footage that is well worth watching (I know, I saw an advance copy Friday afternoon courtesy of the fine folks – namely Kate Hart – at Fox).
The cameras had access to some things I never get to see in person, like breakfast meetings on the road trip and locker room access at halftime and pregame, long after they jettison those of us in the media.
I spoke Saturday with Keith Wetzler, the producer of original programming for Fox (and also the man who produced that special on Joe Johnson, Dominique Wilkins‘ Hall of Fame induction show and those very helpful A-Town Dancers shows), and we talked about the delicate dance of trying to get behind the scenes without crossing the line.
“We were trying to take the fans into the places they’ve never been before,” Wetzler said. “Fans don’t get to see what goes on in the locker room, on the charter flights and in the breakfast meetings. We were a fly on the wall for the fans. The goal was two fold, take them into the places they’ve never seen before and show them personality they’ve never seen.”
Johnson showed off more of the personality we see from him at practice and in the locker room that is rarely on display during games (when most fans get their only glimpse of him). It’ll be surprising for some people to see him like that.
When I asked Wetzler if he was surprised at all by how comfortable the players were with the cameras constantly in their faces, he said he was not.
“I pretty much knew what to expect,” Wetzler said. “And it wasn’t a ‘get out of my face’ type deal. I explained to the [Hawks] what we were trying to do and they responded. We were there to show the entire experience and to bring the fans along for the ride.”
MS. KERI’S DEBUT
Before I depart for Philips and today’s game, I have to sell out for the First Lady of the Blog (for 2009) and give a rousing endorsement to Atlanta’s own Ms. Keri Hilson.
Her debut CD came out this week and It’s worth the purchase.
The First Lady's debut CD is in stores!
I’m an 80s baby and child of the Hip-Hop era, but an unabashed lover of R&B music. And while others love to proclaim most anything new DOA, I happen to dig a lot of the new stuff.
If you drive around this town as much as I do, you’re always looking for something new to listen to (when you’re not on your cell phone like all the thousands of folks that make my back and forth a chore), you’re always on the lookout for something good to listen to.
You might want to check her out, so your next drive to a Hawks’ game is enhanced by her beautiful sounds.
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206 comments Add your comment
Elijah
March 29th, 2009
11:27 am
first
rms
March 29th, 2009
11:51 am
Does this mean Speedy is playing or do he get to sport a new suit.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 29th, 2009
11:54 am
The Hawks absolutely have to feed Josh Smith and Al Horford the ball today. The Lakers’ biggest weakness right now is their interior defense, with no Andrew Bynum. Joe Johnson is going to have a tough time getting open shots with Kobe Bryant and Trevor Ariza alternately guarding him. Asking him to get shots in isolation every play is going to result in a predictable 30-something percent shooting night and another loss. Let Josh and Al attack Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom off the dribble and get them into foul trouble, and you can then turn the tables on the Lakers by making them a perimeter oriented team.
Sure, that could just mean Kobe Bryant goes off, but Gasol has been on fire offensively recently (62% shooting and 21 ppg in March) and allowing him to get going will make that team impossible to defend. Kobe is always going to be a player that you can only slow down, never stop, but with his ankle injury there’s always the chance that if you make him work hard for his points he won’t play with his usual efficiency.
Other than that, the Hawks have to make sure they box out and defend the 3 point line in this game. Easier said than done, but the Lakers’ success stems in large part because their role players knock down open 3’s in rhythm and their front court dominates the boards.
terrell barron
March 29th, 2009
11:54 am
Can you say 6 game losing streak? Hey Sekou, Hansborough? Please! I guess I’d be o.k. with Tyreke Evans or Johnny Flynn, but I’d rather have Patrick Mills. And is Mullens any better than Solo? WHY NOT JUST DEVELOP HIM? Oh, I forgot who the coach was. With that said, why draft a pg or a center when they’ll just ride the bench? I’m sorry man, but I just cant get excited about this years draft, knowing old stubborn ass will still be here. I just cant.
terrell barron
March 29th, 2009
11:59 am
Come on Najeh. None of that really matters. We’ll be overmatched and extremely outcoached today. It’ll take a miracle for us to pull this one out. This team wins all of their games at home, and MOST of their games on the road. Tough task today. Kobe Bryant is on a mission, while we’re already satified that we clinched a spot.
Blindog
March 29th, 2009
1:07 pm
Until the Hawks get a ligit point gaurd and cfnter they will never reach the next level.As much as I like Hansborough he is not what this team needs.Woodson has proven he can’t develop nor coach young talent. He has got to go!!
SWAT Native
March 29th, 2009
1:13 pm
This is a crazy two weeks. The Hawks will play every team that is a legitimate contender for the championship: Cavs, Spurs, Celtics, Lakers and then the Magic. I was sitting next to a couple at the Celtics game Friday night and the wife kept trying to tell me that the game didn’t matter because both teams had already made the playoffs. I kept trying to explain to her that they were still fighting for seeding and it was important for the Hawks to show these kinds of teams that they can’t just come in our gym and win, but she didn’t get it. Fortunately they left at halftime.
I finally found a ticket for today’s game. so I’ll be there. Sekou, any word on whether Kobe will play?
Joe's place Joe speaking
March 29th, 2009
1:54 pm
If the sorry a$$ sixers can beat the lakers at home then I say we definitely have a shot! But it takes confidence, something the hawks lack, so let’s just watch and see what team comes out today before we judge.
oh and Sekou where the he!! Is your picure up top ?? And why do you think the hawks can play so well on week and terrible the next?? Who’s to blame in your opinion??
Today’s Links 3/29 at New England Sports 24/7
March 29th, 2009
1:58 pm
[...] Draft profile: Tyrese Rice Red’s Army Two teams, two decisions Stay positive people AJC Legitimize your rise Hawks News OK Top seeds have an advantage in the NBA Playoffs Hoopsworld 5 things we learned in the [...]
terrell barron
March 29th, 2009
2:03 pm
Damn, we could’ve used Ryan Hollins. He’s been buried on a few benches for years.
O'brien
March 29th, 2009
2:13 pm
When the Hawks won those 7 games at home, Woody was doing a good job of playing his bench (especially Acie and Mario). But since then, Acie has been hurt, and Mario hasnt got enough PT, and Solo gets no PT. The starters have been playing extended minutes against good defensive teams, and that is not a formula for success.
Joe Step Up!!!!
March 29th, 2009
2:22 pm
It’s your time Joe, Right Now. I want a Career High MJ Stle 55 Points. Straght Beast Mode on KB24. If ever you were going to legitimize being one of the best guards in the world, now is the time.
Ariose
March 29th, 2009
2:32 pm
TB, Thats Right.
SEKOU,What do you have against Patrick Mills? Did you see this guy own Deron Williams, CP3, and Kidd in the olypics? You didn’t see St.Marys Vs. Davison last week when he one-upped Stephen Curry with 26pts and 11 assists? Not to mentinon the “W”. Sekou……you slippin’…..
~Sir Links A Lot~
Ariose
March 29th, 2009
2:33 pm
Errors: Olypics and Davidson…heh…
Ariose
March 29th, 2009
2:36 pm
olympics….
Elijah
March 29th, 2009
2:38 pm
There’s no way in hell Woodson uses the bench today in such a high-profile game. If Solomon Jones and Mario get minutes as part of the regular rotation for more than 1 minute each, I will be shocked
Sekou K. Smith
March 29th, 2009
2:48 pm
I like Patty Mills just fine. He just didn’t make the list.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 29th, 2009
3:26 pm
Other than his weird shooting form, Mills is nice. I don’t think Maynor, Lawson or Flynn are realistic targets where the Hawks will draft, and on the 2nd tier of PGs Mills is probably the best.
But I’m still not a fan of targeting a point guard. I think the Hawks need a big body — even if it’s not a true center like Mullens — more than they need another young point. Acie Law will do just fine given playing time, and more importantly none of these PGs in the draft is such a sure thing that they will immediately come in and outperform Law. I’d love to see someone like Hansbrough or Patrick Patterson on the Hawks if they are the best big man available in the early 20s where the Hawks will pick.
Ariose
March 29th, 2009
3:27 pm
Sekou, So you don’t think he’s a good fit for the Hawks or he’s just not one of your top five Hawk prospects?
bigdave
March 29th, 2009
3:30 pm
maybe i missed it, but coach mentioned after the lost to the Celts that they would practice Sat. and some of the guys that were a bit, “nicked up” are going to have to tough it out,and give it a go…
does that mean Acie is available…?
Blast
March 29th, 2009
3:35 pm
This will be a tough game for the Hawks, and since they’ve been losing to all the good teams coming to town so far, I expect them to lose to LA. Unless, as Sekou said, they come out with pride. Show the league you can beat the elite teams. Hawks win this game, they make up a little for the recent loses. They lose this game, and they just confirmed that they are nothing else but a 2nd-Tier team.
No question. The bigs have to be fed toniight. Constantly. Hawks cannot pound the ball. One play early quarter last game, Joe drew a triple team. Horford was open for one brief second. All Joe had to do was toss him the ball, And AL would have had a dunk. Joe held the ball, AL was cut off, when Joe finally passed the ball to AL, he was forced to take a quick jumper wheich he missed. Joe has to trust hie teammates. He cannot win ball games himself.
No slow start. Too much of that lately.
Bibby must play great.
Ho Hawks, show me something!
Big Ray
March 29th, 2009
3:37 pm
Samuel,
In the last blog, I meant to say Jermaine O’Neal, not Marion. Don’t know what I was thinking about at that particular moment.
Elijah,
You went for the old misdirection play. I accuse Sam of being my doppleganger, and you speak up almost immediately. It’s okay, youngster. You’ll get better at being a clown. I have faith in you. Heh….by the way, writing is a hobby, not something that goes on a resume. I don’t expect you to understand, but even a blind squirrel with two broken legs can find a nut. Whether or not he knows what to do with it afterwards is another deal altogether….By the way, you set a rather attainable goal for Woody against the Lakers. 1 minute each for Mario and Solo? I’m holding you to EXACTLY that. And I’m no Woody fan.
Clyde,
Blogger of the Year is a one-time thing. I’ve moved on, bro’. What’s the new t-shirt slogan these days? Come on now, you gotta have something to get you back to Rio!
Big Ray
March 29th, 2009
3:47 pm
I have a very bad feeling about this game. It’s not like I had a good one to begin with. The Hawks are already jacking shots from the perimeter, including an early long bomb attempt by Josh.
Based on that sight alone, we’re going to lose. Playing like that against THE best team in the NBA? Yeah, that’s a loss. I sure hope we cut this foolishnes out…
Najeh Davenpoop
March 29th, 2009
3:50 pm
Considering how badly the Hawks started the game, I’m actually kinda happy with the 8-6 score.
2 fouls on Kobe — that’s a huge break.
bigdave
March 29th, 2009
3:51 pm
should be 3 on kobe but they letting him hound joe as always…
Najeh Davenpoop
March 29th, 2009
3:54 pm
2 fouls on Fisher too. It would be nice to see an effort to attack either Gasol or Odom and get one of them into foul trouble. After the early terrible start the Hawks are making a nice effort to get inside now.
Blast
March 29th, 2009
3:55 pm
LA might not kill you with the first shot, but they surely will hammer you on the offensive glass. Hawks must rebound.
Like Hawks energy right now. I think Joe is trying to prove something today.
Elijah
March 29th, 2009
3:57 pm
JOSH SMITH WATCH:
1 FOUL
BRICKED JUMPSHOT
2 WILD AIRBALLED LAYUPS.
WILL KEEP YOU POSTED
Ariose
March 29th, 2009
4:00 pm
Bibby on Farmar is how the Lakers started their run back in LA. Woodson needs to get Bibby outta there ASAP. Flip nees o get in there pronto.
bigdave
March 29th, 2009
4:04 pm
thats aight Josh… u were trying to send it in with some authority…
Elijah
March 29th, 2009
4:04 pm
Kobe with 2 fouls probably is not good. Hawks will go complacent and will be down 7 at halftime.
I hope I am wrong
Blast
March 29th, 2009
4:04 pm
That’s the 3rd dunk Josh has missed this season!
O'brien
March 29th, 2009
4:06 pm
So Woody takes a 20 sec timeout with 0.9 seconds left. I sure hope we run a good play
bigdave
March 29th, 2009
4:06 pm
another wasted time out by Woody… make or miss…
O'brien
March 29th, 2009
4:07 pm
Since Kobe has sat for so long, Woody needs to make sure JJ is rested, because I think Kobe will be fresh in the 4th.
Big Ray
March 29th, 2009
4:08 pm
Heck yeah, this is more like it!
Now extend the lead!
Blast
March 29th, 2009
4:08 pm
Enter your comments here
cheese
March 29th, 2009
4:09 pm
its all woodys fault! hawks are winning so far 20-13 after 1st.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 29th, 2009
4:13 pm
The Hawks’ defense has been outstanding over the last 10 minutes or so, and one of the main reasons, oddly enough, is Zaza Pachulia. He’s been great on the glass and in denying Pau Gasol post position.
Blast
March 29th, 2009
4:16 pm
That was a BS call on AL.
Sekou K. Smith
March 29th, 2009
4:17 pm
Kobe seemed like he wanted out of this game. He was playing like a man on a mission – to foul out of this game with his aggressive play early on. He seems to be resting just fine now over there on the end of the bench.
Sautee
March 29th, 2009
4:17 pm
Joe makes a LOT of his shots SO much harder that he has to. It’s like he WANTS to make a more difficult shot, rather than take an easy one.
bigdave
March 29th, 2009
4:19 pm
No Sekou its just that they usually let him get away with assault and battery…
Ariose
March 29th, 2009
4:23 pm
Mike Woodson takes takesthe dumbest timeouts sometimes……
Ariose
March 29th, 2009
4:30 pm
Ummm……I Want Mario in the rotation all the time.
Blast
March 29th, 2009
4:35 pm
Gasol and Odom in the game and Hawks go small? Now Zaza, who has played like a warrior has three fouls. Hawks must stop fouling.
Gp Mario!
Ariose
March 29th, 2009
4:38 pm
We haven’t scored in a while. We need to get our offense going.
Blast
March 29th, 2009
4:42 pm
Well, Hawks make it more interesting for themselves.
Kobe isn’t happy about Mario’s defence. Watch Kobe try to take over in the second half.
Refs straight up killing us. As usual.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 29th, 2009
4:43 pm
The front court foul trouble really hurt the Hawks in the last six minutes of the half. With a lack of size and no scoring from the front court the Hawks had to rely too much on the guards to carry them offensively and weren’t able to control the boards like they did in the 12 minutes before that. Josh, Al, and Zaza have to make sure they don’t commit unnecessary fouls in the 3rd quarter, or else the Lakers will be able to continue their run.
I posted this a couple of blogs ago, but I’ll say it again — if Mario West works on his outside jumpshot in the offseason, he will be a really valuable asset for this team next year. His inability to contribute offensively in the half court is the only thing keeping him from regular minutes right now.
AL
March 29th, 2009
4:47 pm
I hope Al gets going, he has not played well lately (Matt Bonner and Glen Davis).
If we do play Miami, at least we know Mario might be able to somewhat contain Wade.
Elijah
March 29th, 2009
4:49 pm
I don’t understand how Mario’s offense is still so awful? Does he figure that he’s buried in the bench, so he doesn’t need to work on his shot? We know he’s athletic and can make layups. Now work on your jumpshot
Blast
March 29th, 2009
4:53 pm
Hawks must rebound defensively, Lakers killing them with second shots. Good thing AL only has 2 fouls.
Mario is a gammer.Just love his energy and defence.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 29th, 2009
5:13 pm
Dammit… Josh Smith was wide open for the alley oop and Bibby totally missed him…
bigdave
March 29th, 2009
5:23 pm
YYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
Nate ArchiBALL
March 29th, 2009
5:27 pm
Najeh,— Joe ” Ballhog” Johnson had him open for an oop earlier in the quarter but was too busy dribbling.
bigdave
March 29th, 2009
5:29 pm
Za Za can give u this consistently…
Blast
March 29th, 2009
5:34 pm
Bibby and Flip are hugging the ball too much in the 4th. And they are playing hesitant. Now is not the time to let down. Game ain’t over yet. Keeping driving and shooting. I haven’t seen them run many plays for the bigs yet. Joe needs to be back in the lineup.
Finish the 4th strong and take this game, Hawks
dmortone
March 29th, 2009
5:34 pm
Hawks playing with energy from the opening tip, along with the Lakers forcing up way too many outside shots means the Hawks are in good shape. Just gotta keep up the intensity for 9 more minutes and we get a good win.
kirkinga
March 29th, 2009
5:35 pm
Well it looks like we’re ending the month the same way it started, with the naysayers in full effect. At the start of the month it was an open question for some if the Hawks could manage 3-17? Now it’s, if the Hawks (who are missing their starting 4 and blog-favorite Acie), can’t beat the best team in the West, they aren’t “legit”?
I’m not buying that,sorry.
Is Miami legit? The Sixers? How about the Pistons everyone was so mindful of at the start of this month?
The Hawks are losing to teams, deep down in your Hawks heart, you know are better. I hope they pull out today’s game, but I’m not ready to invalidate the season if they don’t.
The Hawks are going to be the 4th seed. That means they are legit, they aren’t sliding into the 8th seed with a losing record.
No more fantasy land. We know what the Hawks are and what they aren’t. They are legit. But they aren’t better than the Celtics, Cavs, Spurs, Lakers, or Magic, but those are the teams that were on their schedule at this point in the season. At 14-22 on the road,they will also have a tough time winning on the road in Philly.
This is no time to get squishy. Holding on to the 4th spot isn’t going to be easy or pretty.
Go Hawks!!
Ariose
March 29th, 2009
5:37 pm
Hopefully we can get to the 5 minute marbefore josh is neede again.
niremetal
March 29th, 2009
5:38 pm
Huh? What’s with Woody calling another timeout right after the TV timeout?
Sekou K. Smith
March 29th, 2009
5:40 pm
Mario West to bird dog Kobe for the next two minutes, just to see if it works.
niremetal
March 29th, 2009
5:42 pm
GREAT sequence by Bibby. I still don’t get the people who think that his defensive lapses outweigh his great court vision in transition and the fact that he’s at his best when it counts most.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 29th, 2009
5:45 pm
Haha nice 3 Bibby… used up the rest of your luck today on that one…
Najeh Davenpoop
March 29th, 2009
5:55 pm
Ugly game… probably would have been somewhat different if Kobe was at 100%, but still nice to see the Hawks take care of business, especially with Joe Johnson having one of his worst games of the season.
terrell barron
March 29th, 2009
5:55 pm
I’m impressed. JJ looked awful today, btw. Still impressed though.
Ariose
March 29th, 2009
6:01 pm
Sekou, I guess the hawks are legit now huh? lol Nice win by the guys. We neede this one.
Mike Woodson
March 29th, 2009
6:03 pm
My job is safe! Lakers fans be damned!!
Ernest
March 29th, 2009
6:03 pm
Good win by the Hawks this afternoon! It was ugly but a ‘W’ nonetheless.
mike
March 29th, 2009
6:03 pm
bout time we beat an “elite” team.. proud of the defensive effort.. al needs to step up his game seems like he’s been in a slump recently. go hawks.. we need that win in philly desperately
Ariose
March 29th, 2009
6:04 pm
Kobe wasn’t much better. He had a crappy night too.
kirkinga
March 29th, 2009
6:05 pm
Great win today for the Hawks!
The Hawks beat a better team today at home at something less than full strength.
Hopefully we all know now that the Hawks are a legitimate team. The Hawks are 6 games above .500 since their 6-0 streak. 8 games to go and looking pretty descent.
Go Hawks!!
Gilley
March 29th, 2009
6:05 pm
Great Win Hawks! If the Hawks played defense like this every night and Mike Bibby shot lights out like this every night, we woulud be alright! To all you Kobe fans and Hawks haters, “Now you know!”
Blast
March 29th, 2009
6:05 pm
Sweet win!!!!!!!!!
Now maybe the Hawks can get that monkey off their back and reclaim their home court. Wasn’t the prettiest game at all, but I’ll take the win.
Hawks are legit, they just are not elite. That’s the difference. The elite NBA teams this year are Cleveland, Boston, LA, Orlando, and San Antonio, teams that have a really good shot at winning the title. Hawks fall on the next level with the likes of Houston, Portland, Denver, Utah, etc. But with shrewd picks and some key additions this summer, Hawks can potentially reach that level.
Mike Bibby. How do you love me now?
Go Hawks! Take it to Philly!
Gilley
March 29th, 2009
6:07 pm
Great Win Hawks! If the Hawks played defense like this every night and Mike Bibby shot lights out like this every night, we would be alright! To all you Kobe fans and Hawks haters, “Now you know!”
"Big Baby" Davis
March 29th, 2009
6:10 pm
Call my agent NOW!!! I can’t wait to finally play on a winning team. Oh wait…
Najeh Davenpoop
March 29th, 2009
6:16 pm
Blast @ 6:05 PM, great post.
Blast
March 29th, 2009
6:20 pm
8 games left for the Hawks. Not looking at whether the game is away or home, here are the Hawks next opponents. Philly, Boston, Orlando, Toronto, Milwaukee, Indiana, Miami and Memphis. Looking at the schedule, I feel the Hawks have a good chance of going 5-3 at worst or 6-2 at best, if they continue with their good defence. The first three games will be the hardest, but thay can steal that Philly game, and let’s say they lose to Boston and Orlando, Hawks take care of business, don’t see why they cannot win the last five games of the season.
Do that, and Hawks have a chance of closing out the season with 48 to 49 wins. Again, not elite, but completely legit.
Sautee
March 29th, 2009
6:24 pm
So kirk, when exactly IS a good time to get “squishy”?
Blast
March 29th, 2009
6:28 pm
Thanks, Najeh.
I love Mo Evans interviews. He calls it as it is, and he talks like a coach. He seems to understand the Hawks better than Woodson.
Big Ray
March 29th, 2009
6:50 pm
Man, I was completely glued to the tube by the second half. Heh…with the way both offenses were playing, it was like watching a train wreck.
Fortunately, the Lakers disrespected us just long enough for our defense to get going, Bibby to hit some shots, and our bench players to give us a lift.
I don’t think I can imagine a prettier ugly win than this one.
Big Ray
March 29th, 2009
6:54 pm
42 wins should have been enough to let anybody know this team is legit. Winning games like that shows this team still has some competitive fire. No, as Kirk says we are NOT better than the elite teams. With some of the known issues that we have, that should not come as a surprise to anybody.
I just hope we can keep things going, and be just as competitive next year, and so on.
Somebody tell Elijah that Mario played over 6 minutes, and Solo played over 2 minutes. Told ya….
Big Ray
March 29th, 2009
6:58 pm
Blast,
Agreed about Bibby. He’s still a liability on defense, but like has been said earlier: his shot-making ability will be needed come playoff time. And it was never more apparent how he can make up for not being a defensive stalwart than against a team like the Lakers, where the pg position is not that much of a threat. Thing is, we need him to come up big against teams that DO have good pgs. And since hitting bit shots is what he does best, we need to find ways to spring him for open looks, like they did today. Otherwise, his presence is nullified.
kirkinga
March 29th, 2009
7:14 pm
Sautee-I think you’re old enough to know that by now.
Sautee
March 29th, 2009
7:17 pm
Kirk,
Hey, no age jokes. I’m kinda sensitive you know.
kirkinga
March 29th, 2009
7:23 pm
Ray, I agree. The Hawks need to continue to build. This is not a finished product and shouldn’t be evaluated as such.
It is quite possible, with free agents and a bad economy, that we are still 2 seasons away from seeing the process began under Knight, completed.
I think you also raised a very good point about Bibby. Even against a lock-down elite defense, he can still manage to get his shots, maybe they aren’t the flashy-quick moves of a Parker, but they are darn effective just the same.
I can’t decide. Is it a good thing or bad thing that ZaZa alone had about the same amount of points and rebounds as Horford and Josh combined?
Go Hawks!!
Big Ray
March 29th, 2009
7:24 pm
LOL @ Kirk and Sautee…
doc
March 29th, 2009
7:25 pm
missed the game. great to hear the guys stopped the skid they were on. they deserved one. sounds like there was nothing pretty about it. a win is a win is a win. felt we let down the last two games, had san antoine where we wanted them and playing against big baby instead of kg only to not compete in either game.
resolute effort and zaza is the man for a day! get down on your knees zaza hatas.
KevinA
March 29th, 2009
7:32 pm
About the only thing that can reverse expected mind numming losses is the unexpected wins. Our Hawks are not as good as the elite teams but todays game shows if you hustle, bang bodies and give effort anything can happen. You gotta love-em.
Big Ray
March 29th, 2009
7:35 pm
Kirk,
You could be very right about that. I think that one of the things that will hinge on is how much Sund wants to make his own impression on this team. He said/did the classy thing when he first got here, by giving Knight credit for the talent he accumulated. But he’s “the man” now. Does he have more, less, or exactly the same amount of rein as Billy did? I’m curious to see just how much rope he’s got to work with (and money as well), and how shrewd he turns out to be with it. This summer will begin to answer some of our questions, but I agree that another 2 years is a reasonable expectation, given the economical issues that clearly exist.
As for Bibby, I know I dump on the guy a lot for his defense. And his offense has been off more than on here lately. But I would be very much remiss if I said it was all on him. An offense that stands around seriously kills his effect. Not setting enough picks (or doing it in the right places) kills his effect. The guy is 6′1″ and doesn’t have a lot of lift, but we see what he can do when he’s in rhythm and get can a good look at the basket for a second.
This what Woody needs to recognize, enforce, implement, implore, do whatever he MUST to put Bibby in a position to succeed. And guess what? Bibby’s teammates are every bit as responsible for this. We had much better ball movement when Bibby came here, especially through the first half of the season. These guys have destroyed that at times. And they’re going to need his shooting so badly in the playoffs. Guys are used to seeing JJ take, and make tough shots.
But if you think a 6′7″ 240 SG/SF has a tough time when he’s not open, what would we expect from a smaller, less athletic guy? It really shouldn’t take a coach to tell these guys that, though. They should know. Get the man open, and he will kill defenses. Stop standing around…
And I think we’ll have to just take the sunny side of this one, Kirk. THIS time, anyway. Zaza came up big, even if the guys playing in front of him didn’t. We still won, and that says something, though I wouldn’t bank on it happening more often than not when Josh and Al play like that, even against lesser teams than the Lakers.
otrhawksfan
March 29th, 2009
7:53 pm
good game for the hawks on another win! I am glad mo hit some shots in that 3rd. He let jj off the hook today. Does anyone know what our magic number is for home court?
Da Real Real
March 29th, 2009
8:21 pm
GOOD WIN HAWKS! Always good to have a full house down at Phillips…it sucks when at least half the crowd there is pulling for the other team…but it REALLY felt good to wave good bye with a big smile on my face at the losers today as they made their way to the exit.
As for the legit thing, Sekou – I’d say the Hawks sealed that during that 7 game home win streak. We’ve been beating some quality teams all season and I don’t think there is a team in the league, right now, that takes our Hawks lightly this year (and that includes the “ELITE” ones). Like many have said here we’re on the tier with those teams knocking on elite door (Rockets, Hornets, Jazz). Heck, the way the East look we have a good chance, next year, of being an elite team in the eastern conference. Other than that really good game today, some folks will say it was ugly, I will say it was absolutely beautiful – had a really good time down at the arena today.
J.J.M.
March 29th, 2009
8:24 pm
awww look at the fans jump right back on the wagon
Freshmaker
March 29th, 2009
8:37 pm
OTR, I believe the magic number for clinching the 4 spot is 5 games (either Hawks wins or Miami losses). We’ve got 8 games left, and we’re up by 3.5
falcon21
March 29th, 2009
8:48 pm
Don’t jump on the wagon yet, Woody is still the coach. My bad, not a coach but he is still here.
sansho1
March 29th, 2009
8:58 pm
Some things are only obvious in retrospect. But from now on, I’ll do my best to remember one steadfast rule — always take the Hawks at home on Sunday when the opposing team arrives the day before. Saturday night in the ATL is nothing but trouble!!
cheese
March 29th, 2009
8:58 pm
who cares about kobe not being 100% and the game would be different if he was. we dont have marvin williams so are we all going to question all of our previous losses? lets give our hawks some credit now people. no wonder the hawks community is always the laughing stock in the nba. too much negativity even though the teams wins.
nj faithful
March 29th, 2009
9:11 pm
GOTTA LOVE THE CONSTANT 7 MAN ROTATION! THESE GUYS WILL HAVE NOTHING LEFT WHEN THE PLAYOFFS START! GIVE EM’ A REST WOODY!!!!!
Sautee
March 29th, 2009
9:19 pm
Kirk,
About this comment you made to Ray:
“I think you also raised a very good point about Bibby. Even against a lock-down elite defense, he can still manage to get his shots, maybe they aren’t the flashy-quick moves of a Parker, but they are darn effective just the same”.
Kirk, you likely know that I’m a big Bibby fan from way back. But I cannot say that I saw the Lakers playing “lock-down elite defense” today. Mike played very well and we desperately needed him to, since Joe was so off. But the Lakers, except for Ariza, looked a step slow much of the game to me.
I’d say that Cleveland indeed played that kind of D last week against Bibby.
And we saw what happened then.
But for today, hooray! Let’s go clinch 4th.
Mark
March 29th, 2009
9:43 pm
Great Game Today Hawks!
They still should not rely on those three pointers. They played great defense today, but it could have been that the Lakers just missed shots. Heck I don’t know. I’m not sure if we are that legitimate. I can’t wait until the playoffs start so we can hopefully win the first round. I just hate that if we do that, we would be accomplishing our goals for this year. We still have to make some major changes to this roster, if we hope to win a championship someday.
We may be legitimate, but we are still pretenders rather than contenders. I am glad we won today, but unfortunately the NBA playoffs aren’t like the NFL or NCAA. In a series an elite team would beat us in four to five games.
GO HAWKS!!!
niremetal
March 29th, 2009
9:44 pm
All I know is that if you gave me all the point guards in the league and asked me which one of them I’d want taking the last shot in a playoff game, I’d probably put Bibby no lower than 3rd. Seriously.
Big Ump
March 29th, 2009
9:45 pm
Big Ray
Good post as always.
SWAT Native
March 29th, 2009
10:17 pm
Great win today by the Hawks! Now let’s beat Orlando Friday night!
kirkinga
March 29th, 2009
10:18 pm
Ray, I agree that Sund is now the guy responsible and as such would want to make an imprint. How much rope he has is more a question of economi9cs than it is organizational structure. I think the NBA FA market is not going to be a plush as some are thinking.
As we saw with MLB, players better have a realistic sense of what they can get versus what they may want. I’m sure a sizable portion of the owners are not as wealthy going into this offseason as they were going into the last. We already have a hint that this is true from the loan the league took out to help struggling teams. This offseason will be a buyers market which is exactly the opposite thought you would have if you looked at the list of available FA’s.
So while the Hawks have some FA’s other teams are surely going to have some interest i, the question will really be how much interest and can they get similar talent at a value price? As others have mention throughout the season, the Hawks have to make a decision as to who is nucleus and who is not, next, who is integral to what the team is trying to do and who is not, and finally who is no longer in the team’s plans?
Interesting take on ZaZa, though I’m still not sure if it was ZaZa taking advantage of opportunity, or underwhelming performances from Horford and Josh? Yes, coaching has a lot to do with it, but that explains the lack of offense. But what about the lack of rebounding?
Anyway, the offseason is a playoff season+ 8 games away and I guess no need in worrying about that now, but when the topic of “legitimization” came up, I couldn’t help but wonder is it really the best time to ask that question? I can’t help but think until we know the imeediate futures of the starting 5, it may be premature to ask if this version of the Atlanta Hawks is legit or not.
Go Hawks!!
Fred
March 29th, 2009
10:20 pm
http://www.examiner.com/x-2723-Atlanta-Hawks-Examiner~y2009m3d29-Hawks-get-much-needed-win-against-Lakers
doc
March 29th, 2009
10:23 pm
man i am watching the spurs, hornets game and i really think that chris paul guy is the real deal if anyone hasnt heard that before around here.
kirkinga
March 29th, 2009
10:27 pm
Sautee, I have to qualify my response because I did not see the game.
I must that I got the impression about the defense from the tone of the comments on the blog.
But if it wasn’t the defenses, what made for the underperformances we saw on both sides?
So I’m willing to amend my “lock down” comment, but only so much. The Lakers play good defense, whether Kobe scores or not. So I think it is at least appropriate to say that Bibby showed, again, that a PG can lack quickness and still be deadly effective for his team.
And, no, I thought I was the only Bibby fan from way back…lol? More accurately, a fan of that young Kings team that was robbed by the officials against the Lakers. They never recovered from that game.
Go Hawks!!
niremetal
March 29th, 2009
10:32 pm
Doc,
CP3 is good, but I’ll still lay odds that Deron Williams will retire with more rings on his fingers than CP3 will.
MAC-TOWN
March 29th, 2009
10:36 pm
Field Goals
Josh Smith 3-11
Al Horford 1-6
Joe Johnson 4-18
Flip Murray 6-13
to be honest….I’m more concerned about that
than beating the lakers.
We have been a doormat team for so long that
I can understand the excitement over little things
…..but lets fake it..
we took the lakers to 7 games last year
we have been in the 4th spot all year
WE KNOW WE ARE A PLAYOFF TEAM and focus should be
improving as much as we can to star being a championship
team instead of glaring in the headlights of beating
the lakers at home for one game in the regular season.
those #’s bother me…though I do not expect them to be that low
most of the time….except for Josh Smith…(actually
he is the ONE I’m most concerned about)
I think he is going to make some bonehead plays….and
coast free throw bricks in the playoffs….then maybe
people can see what a team cancer he is.
doc
March 29th, 2009
10:38 pm
kirk, though at my age i dont remember things that well, that series is still one that irks me as much as the d wade debacle a few years back to give that title to the heat. robbery. wasnt shaq the benefactor in both scenarios?
was just looking around the league. after comments made here detracting coach karl clearly someone on the real list for coy suggesting karl had lost the team and it was imploding; well they are now two games from 50 win elite category and won 8 of their last 10. anyone want to man up to their comments or have they mis-remembered?
oh yeah, how bout tiger! heeeee’s back! i can start watching golf again. everyone else is still a pretenda.
red
March 29th, 2009
10:56 pm
would anyone consider trading marvin/acie/draft pick for villanueva and sessions and zaza/speedy/draft pick for camby by the end of the season? i think the charlie will make us more versatile in 3 and 4 spot and solid in the 5 and 1 spot with camby and sessions. we should also just resign childress to add a depth in our bench. if we need perimeter shooting we can start charlie either in 3 or 4 depending on the match up. i think the acquisition will make our offense and defense better. this is only a proposal.
starter:
C-camby
PF-horford
SF-smith
SG-jj
PG-bibby???
bench:
childress
villanueva
evans
flip
sessions
doc
March 29th, 2009
11:03 pm
and sometimes there are boneheads making comments here that are cancers to such a good vibe ater a win. hata dude just a hata.
nire it will depend on where they end up. neither will win one if they stay where they are. chris paul will look like the great oscar robertson if he has to stay in new orleans waiting for the next coming of lew alcindor to rescue him. the first one who makes it to a big time market will be the winner. new orleans is one of the worst run organizations between here and clipper land and utah is not able to do what it has to to get there. utah will also have to deal with the death of its owner which may end up changing the culture there; too early to tell.
niremetal
March 29th, 2009
11:12 pm
That is the weirdest combination of trade proposals I’ve ever seen. In the first one, we’re overpaying like mad. In the second, we aren’t giving up nearly enough.
Samuel
March 29th, 2009
11:26 pm
Woody=COY
Lori
March 29th, 2009
11:36 pm
Okay guys and gals I’m a 100% Hawks fan whether or not we WIN or LOSE. I’m not a bangwagon fan. I’m a true Hawks fan for life. With that said everybody has to realize that we can’t win every solitary game in a season. We have to realize that the guys will have great streaks of great playing but on the same token they will have a few off nights. An off night is not entirely a bad thing. It gives other players on the bench a chance to shine and improve. That is exactly what happened today against the Lakers. Although Horford and Johnson didn’t have their typical numbers but Pachulia and Bibby stepped up and picked up the slack and so did West to get the job done. I know that winning the championship this year is a pipe dream I do think we will get passed round one of the playoffs and perhaps even make the East finals? I know that is pushing it. But hey it was also pushing it to say we could defeat the Lakers today.
About the Laker win … did you guys know we held the Lakers to a season scoring low? No other team has managed to do that. That in and of itself is something worth mentioning and celebrating. That right there my friends goes to show you that we are a legitimate team and we are not to be taken for a grain of salt.
Oh, and Kobe being sick or not feeling well? Excuses excuse excuses …we were the better team and out played him. Why does he make constant excuses? Sigh …anywho…
Playoffs?
Yeeeeeeeeeeah Hawks we are going to the playoffs and hopefully clinch that 4th seed and take out the Heat early after 5 games. That would be a nice goal to attain.
Last, to the Bibby haters …
Funny how when he has the rare bad night some of you want to hate on him. But when he does well some of you want to applaud him and have him signed to a contract for ten years this very moment. Why can’t the Bibby haters just either love or hate the man? Seriously … the man is a great player, an All Star, and just awesome. But he is human, he will have an off night. They all do. Lighten up on the poor guy he is the reason we won today
Or one of the reasons anyway.
Bibby, if you read this … you are the greatest man and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. Oh, and that was one sweet shot off the back board today
Totally loved it man.
Gooooooooooooo HAWKS!!!!!!!!!
RLP
March 29th, 2009
11:45 pm
One more Hawks victory and that clinch no worse than sixth place in the playoffs. Five more wins and they clinch fourth place even if the teams in contention win ALL of their remaining games.
Come on guys – let’s enjoy the best season in over a decade for these last eight games. You’ve got all summer to discuss the future. But I will say that next year could result in a setback based on the way Larry Brown has the Bobcats playing and Philly and Chicago and …
Enjoy this season NOW!
Lori
March 30th, 2009
12:01 am
BTW …
MAC-TOWN…
I must have been under some rock but I didn’t think we went seven games with the Lakers. I thought it was the Celtics. I could be wrong though but perhaps not.
richbrave
March 30th, 2009
12:04 am
doc:
CRITTER REPORT. Our boy continues to get serious burn and his game continues to develop in a positive sense. Why his outside shot and free throws are so atrocious I have no way of fathoming, but he’ll no doubt work on those over the summer. 19 tonight, three rebounds, three assists, a steal, a block, 0 turnovers, a muffin, juice and coffee….o-o-h, I digress. Later.
niremetal
March 30th, 2009
12:45 am
Richbrave,
Btw, I need some background on you, dude. Are you the mirror image of me; i.e. are you a DC native who’s been transplanted to Atlanta? Just tryin’ to figure out why you post on the Wizards every once in awhile
BA
March 30th, 2009
1:31 am
Nice post, Lori. I noticed that 76 was a season-low for the Lakers, and I wrote about it here-
http://crashingtheglass.com
MAC-TOWN
March 30th, 2009
6:18 am
Lori I meant the celtics, and
Field Goals
Josh Smith 3-11
Al Horford 1-6
Joe Johnson 4-18
Flip Murray 6-13
will get us a 1st rd exit again…
doc
March 30th, 2009
6:52 am
gee ba are you saying that mac has it all wrong about josh? seems so in your comments as you give credit for josh playing both ends of the court with a near double double and shutting down a second option for the lakers in odum. ba, boneheads miss out on the finer points of the game when they just isolate on numbers in a single category, donr they? oh didnt josh just post some relatively good numbers in the last game when everyone else fell flat.? people also forget that the lakers can play some defense, too and have a pretty deep bench.
terrell barron
March 30th, 2009
7:55 am
Mario West gets some burn, we win. Mo Evans starts, we win. SIMPLE.
terrell barron
March 30th, 2009
7:59 am
Thias team could use Chills, but honestly, where would this team be without Flip Murray? When JJ is off, he usually picks up the slack. That’s something we didn’t have in Chills. I’d like to have em both, but if I had to choose between the 2, I’d have to go with Murray right now.
Barry
March 30th, 2009
8:24 am
Hey Y’all:
The Hawks played great against the Lakers. Remember folks this is a marathon all the way through the season and through the playoff. Just remeber that. these Hawks may lose a game along the way but they will win more than they lose. they are built and prepared for the long haul mararathon. Therefore, get ready to dig in with them and “Push” them through the “FINISH LINE” which is the NBA Championship. It is going to be tough, but nothing comes easy. They will enjoy the wins even more when they know they are prepared and worked hard during this marathon race. So get on board and get ready for some exciting basketball in the ATL Phillips Arean. THIS IS OUR HOUSE!!!!!! AND DON’T YOU FORGET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“ATLANTA HAWKS, BOOM-BYE-YEAH!!!”
The Truth
March 30th, 2009
9:38 am
Ray
Glad to know that was a “Fake Ray” moving to Canada and not the “Real Big Ray”.
Kudos to Hawks on a much needed win against the Lakers; I’m happy to see Mo Evans is trying to prove me wrong about his 3-point shooting. I’m still not convinced though, I need to see more consistency before I jump on that bandwagon, but I really appreciate his effort. The Hawks again showed us why they are so fascinating to watch. Just when you count them out, they go and prove you wrong. To be honest, I didn’t expect them to beat the Lakers with their missing pieces. They sort of remind me of the NC State Cardiac Kids in the 80’s; the way they defy the odds and win despite the critics; you got to love it. If they should win the first-round-series, they will surely become the national favorite because of their underdog status. Last year was an introduction for the Hawks in the Boston series. This year, they can take the underdog banner to a whole new level, perhaps, just like those Cardiac Kids. We shall see. It’s a nice ride, if you like drama.
I think the Lakers win is very significant not just because of the race in the standing but also because it gives them a talking point to rebut the claims that they can’t beat the elite teams. I’m not sure this win does it but at least it a start.
ILL-logical
March 30th, 2009
9:51 am
Last night’s victory and the clever after game marketing piece made several things about the Hawks clearer.They need more trust, teamwork and toughness to be an elite team but there is hope in all three categories.
First, the film pointed out that the team need to get a chef from the Phillips Arena food contractors to feed the team; burgers and fries at 2 am is not the breakfast of champions.LOL
But the other thing that jumped out at me is that this a group of very young kids who are just now learning how to win( along with the coach).The have to learn how to trust one another and the coach is learning that he must change some of his preconcieved notions in order to win with this group. They have the talent but it still needs to be developed.
I also think I figured out what Woodson’s beef with Acie is. When he remarked in the film about his career, it made me think about how guys played through injuries and there were few instances of the dreaded “back spasms”. I believe Acie’s frequent injuries, especially in his rookie year have created some trust issues in terms of his toughness.That is why no matter how much he and Josh disagree about Josh’s role in the offense, Woodson knows that Josh will always answer the bell even when he is not 100%(like for the last 3 months)
Last. The Lakers are the only team that has a point guard who can’t blow by Bibby.That and the 33% chance of the 3 point shot becoming the differiential played a big part in Sunday’s victory. Will not work in a playoff series. Defense will rule and along with better teamwork coupled with some trust on and off the court and the team should do well. Sunday’s game is over but it sure is nice to get on the road with a victory over an elite team.
Sautee
March 30th, 2009
10:17 am
Kirk,
After the bad blowout we had against the Magic, you said (correctly) that every NBA team has 3 or 4 games where they shoot horribly, and lose.
I think this was one of those “3 or 4″ for the Lakers. I’m not discounting that we played good D on several trips, but the Lakers were missing wide open uncontested shots at times. This explains their underperformance more than our defense, which WAS good at times, but not as good as the Lakers final shooting % showed. They left more on the table that we did, and that’s saying a lot.
And you are SO right about the Kings never getting over that series. To me, it’s still the most egregious of all the referee “favoritism” incidences that I can remember. Worse even than USA / Russia and that wasn’t even the NBA (which SHOULD have better refs, since they do it for their living).
And yes, I was a Bibby fan from his Arizona days, and followed his career ever since.
Speaking of Bibby,………
Hey Lori btw while you were under that rock, you somehow missed the fact that Bibby has never made the All-Star team. He was there this year as an invitee to the 3 point shootout, but he’s never made the Big Boy team. Should have in 02-04, but did not.
newkid
March 30th, 2009
10:43 am
Heels, Hawks, and Tiger! What a Sunday afternoon.
JM
March 30th, 2009
11:11 am
Great D for the Hawks yesterday. An ugly game, but a win is a win. I’m surprised by all the negativity on the blog, but I guess some always see the glass as half empty. The Sixers game is big and I want us to win in Boston (just so we don’t go 0-4 this season). Go Hawks!
RedTailHawk
March 30th, 2009
11:45 am
Great win!! Congrats..
Inmy opinion Mario should have gotten even MORE playing time. Someone posted thst the critique on him is his offense. He looks at himself (justly) as the last offensive option. The other 4 players SHOULD be able to take care of the O. His outside shhoting is also criticized. I’m not looking at any stats but I would say that he averages less than 1 outside shot per game. No way is he going to get better at it unless he takes more shots; yet everytime he misses (the 1 shot he takes ) he is criticized. If he took as many 3’s as Bibby or Moe, he might make a decent percentage, who knows. Of course we won’t find that out this year, or maybe ever (see WOODY). Bottom line; If D is truly Woody’s priority, and if the Hawks O really does feed off of it’s D, Mario should be getting MUCH more PT.
AtlSouthside
March 30th, 2009
12:00 pm
Can’t believe someone thinks our team needs Childress…. Childress playin overseas this year was the best thing that could have happened to the Hawks. Acquiring Flip & Mo was the next best thing.
Mario West should be used as a defensive specialists. Each player gets 6 fouls in the NBA so use all 6 of West’s fouls by putting him on the opponent’s best scorer.
Coach Woodson needs to put his foot in Josh Smith’s behind every time he shoots a 3-pointer, I’m quite sick of seeing Josh take shots that are outside of his range.
MannyT
March 30th, 2009
12:11 pm
Sunday was a great victory. Woody even showed that he does not always set his game plan in concrete. The most interesting thing to me was that he played 4 guards with Zaza, then Solo for a significant stretch of the game. It seemed like the perfect opportunity for Lamar Odum to take over (as he and Gasol were in at the same time.) Odum was not a factor when he had a major size advantage.
It was good to see Bibby have a strong game, but it makes the what does Sund do this summer question that much trickier.
This week is a fine time to check the road pulse of the team. Tuesday might be a playoff preview…or not–if they don’t catch the Heat.
BWAF
Mike is back
March 30th, 2009
1:01 pm
Yes, I was disappointed at the outcome of the Boston game, but I thought we let Boston off the hook by not taking advantage of our match-up. I thought we should have exploited Perkins and Bib Babby by getting them out in space. Josh and Al clearly had an advantage out on the wing against their Bigs, absent KG, but we kept going with our perimeters guys. The few times we did run plays for Josh and Al were down in the post where Boston had the advantage, that was the game.
They redeem there selves in the Lakers game. Great to see to the Hawks knock off the Lakers. The defensive intensity was much better, and they went to Josh and Al more. Gasol is soft as powder we dominated their Bigs. Really, the Lakers shots remind of the Hawks shots against the Cs. Shots would go down, but they wouldn’t stay in. When your shots ain’t falling, it’s going to be a long night.
I’m proud of the way this young team responded, GREAT WIN HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Samuel, “Right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jhan
March 30th, 2009
1:15 pm
nimetal – I would like Bibby to take an “uncontested” shot to win the game. If he has to create his own at the buzzer there are much better choices.
Lori – Bibby has never been & will never be an All-Star. Good player I agree but no All-Star. His offense provides the rare “bad” game. His defense provides the rare “good” game. He just can’t move his feet anymore to keep up. Everyone gets old.
Can he score more than he gives up on defense? That is the $6-$8M dollar question going into the off-season.
Mac Town – cancer is a very strong word to describe Josh. He may be a thorn in Woody’s side but hardly a cancer to the team. Unless you have insider information I’ll have to disagree with that statement.
Astro Joe
March 30th, 2009
1:21 pm
Atl Southside, you mean that Woody should ask Josh very politely to please stop taking 3 pointers (or even long two-point shots as he did against Boston). But whatever coaching advice he provides, should be done so nicely. Maybe even a nice hand-written letter that is delivered in the mail along with a fruit basket. Maybe a nice jar of jam and a few scones to go with it. Oh and some Chamomille tea would be a delightful selection to marry the ripe flavors of the other items. How sublime. Yes, I think that would be the perfect tact to encourage young Master Smith to realize his vast potential. A foot to his behind? Well, that’s utterly barbaric.
Elijah
March 30th, 2009
1:22 pm
RedTailHawk,
Mario is a bad FT shooter too.. I think he assumes since he is a good defender that he doesn’t have to worry about shooting because he never plays.
Elijah
March 30th, 2009
1:23 pm
PG’s to look out for this summer if we can’t resign Bibby:
1) TJ Ford — most underrated PG in the NBA and said he loves to play in Atlanta
2) Beno Udrih — Sacramento is probably looking to trade him and his contract is about the same size as Speedy’s
Both would be ideal fits for Atlanta
richbrave
March 30th, 2009
1:26 pm
niremetal:
BRAVES fan and began wandering in the off-season a couple of years ago. When the WIZARDS played the young HAWKS two season back, I saw an up and coming team, something the WIZARDS were not. Started posting regularly here after a shouting match with my man ANDO. doc, ray ,BA, NAJAH etc. began to exchange pleasentries and I just hung around. Convivial group. About three months ago a poster pointed out I was a LIZARDS fan after which I started posting over on the WIZARDS blogs using a different handle. But in my heart, I knew this team had great potential. Recently, doc asked me about his GaTech boy JAVARIS CRITTENTON so I began giving him updates on his progress with the D.C. club. Just something to keep my hand in here, and maybe contribute to the general league knowledge especially since I’m so disgusted with the ownership of the WASHINGTON franchise. Time to change out ABE’s diaper and get some new blood in the house that preaches defense. That fool thinks you can out-score the opposition over 82 games and playoffs. Everybody else knows anybody goes down and an offensive strategy is done. It doesn’t allow for serious injuries which the WIZARDS have had in bunches. So I root for both and post occasionally just to say hi to my friends. That do it for you?
Sautee
March 30th, 2009
1:34 pm
jhan,
Excellent post. I agree with every word. Big cosign.
niremetal
March 30th, 2009
1:41 pm
Yeah, it’s cool, I got no problem with the Wiz. I just find it funny to see someone posting about them since I live in DC and all.
HawksFan 11
March 30th, 2009
1:41 pm
REASONS Y THE HAWKS ARE AN ELITE TEAM YET
1. The Lack Of a Dominant Post Player.. Duncan, Garnett, Shaq
2. We Play From The Outside In… We look For The Outside Shot, then Offensive Rebounds and Put Backs…
3. We Dont Run The Pick And Roll Effectively… Horford and Josh’s only Plays Are Iso’s In The Paint… Ex. Parker, Duncan Pick and Roll,, Nash, Stoudamire
4. Hawks Settle For Less… It Seems As If Everyone Was Excited About Losing to the Celtics Last Year in 7 Games.. How Can u Be Happy About Losing.. Everyone Should’ve Been Like Were Upset And Disappointment but Instead Everyone Was Like We Took The Celtics To 7 Games So We Did Ok.. And This Year We Settled For The 4th Seed With Alot Of Games Left… Everyone was Like We Just Need To Hold On To The Fourth Spot,, When They Shoulda Been Saying Were Determined To Take The Third Spot….
5. 4th Quarter Subing… Mike Woodson rarely ever subs n the 4th quarter and we rarely ever have 4th quarter Comeback on the Road Because All The Starters Are Too Tired….
6. Road Record… Are Road Record Is Below Average And The Elite Teams Win on The Road!!!
7. Not Trusting The Bench… Woodson’s Lack of Subing is a killer… That’s Y Sometimes When Solo Gets In, He is So Shocked He’s In That He Is Clueless On The court With Help Defense And Being In The Right Spot… U Have To Expireince Your Bench So N Crunch Time They Will Know Whats Going On and Wont Be Nervous…
I Say That The Hawks Are A Defensive Center away from being an elite team.. I say we move al to the 4,, trade josh and claxston for a rising center with a large upside..
HawksFan 11
March 30th, 2009
1:42 pm
REASONS WHY THE HAWKS ((((((ARENT)))))) AN ELITE TEAM YET
1. The Lack Of a Dominant Post Player.. Duncan, Garnett, Shaq
2. We Play From The Outside In… We look For The Outside Shot, then Offensive Rebounds and Put Backs…
3. We Dont Run The Pick And Roll Effectively… Horford and Josh’s only Plays Are Iso’s In The Paint… Ex. Parker, Duncan Pick and Roll,, Nash, Stoudamire
4. Hawks Settle For Less… It Seems As If Everyone Was Excited About Losing to the Celtics Last Year in 7 Games.. How Can u Be Happy About Losing.. Everyone Should’ve Been Like Were Upset And Disappointment but Instead Everyone Was Like We Took The Celtics To 7 Games So We Did Ok.. And This Year We Settled For The 4th Seed With Alot Of Games Left… Everyone was Like We Just Need To Hold On To The Fourth Spot,, When They Shoulda Been Saying Were Determined To Take The Third Spot….
5. 4th Quarter Subing… Mike Woodson rarely ever subs n the 4th quarter and we rarely ever have 4th quarter Comeback on the Road Because All The Starters Are Too Tired….
6. Road Record… Are Road Record Is Below Average And The Elite Teams Win on The Road!!!
7. Not Trusting The Bench… Woodson’s Lack of Subing is a killer… That’s Y Sometimes When Solo Gets In, He is So Shocked He’s In That He Is Clueless On The court With Help Defense And Being In The Right Spot… U Have To Expireince Your Bench So N Crunch Time They Will Know Whats Going On and Wont Be Nervous…
I Say That The Hawks Are A Defensive Center away from being an elite team.. I say we move al to the 4,, trade josh and claxston for a rising center with a large upside..
Astro Joe
March 30th, 2009
2:04 pm
Going back to the draft discussion. I said this a year or two ago and I will reiterate. Some NFL teams (GMs/coaches) refuse to draft a “QB of the future” because the growing pains associated with training a young QB is often too taxing (Matt Ryan being a very, very rare exception). Those teams find suitable QBs and make it work. I think the Hawks are similar. I think they’d rather take a middling vet PG than deal with the typical learning curve associated with a young PG. Would the Hawks be better off drafting the 4th or 5th best PG available in the summer or trading for someone like Hinrich? Would Indy match an offer sheet of 3/$18M for Jarrett Jack (considering they are paying TJ Ford and Tinsley around $13M already)? How Childress in a S&T for Steve Blake & Channing Frye? None of those names (other than Hinrich) personally excite me but there is no reason to believe that we’re finding some great and wonderful PG around #20.
In my perfect world, I’d figure out how to sign that big Polish guy from Orlando as my new Zaza-type center (but this guy blocks shots) and I’d figure out how to obtain Hinrich (1st round pick & Speedy?) and call it a summer. Oh yeah, and bring back Marvin on a 3-year/$24M contract (his back has me worried) and sign Flip to a 3/$10M deal. Now, my summer is over.
Ariose
March 30th, 2009
2:04 pm
I am sick of all the Josh bahing. It needs to stop. Josh has range for days. He’s not a particularly accurate shooter(He is a set shooter that needs space and time from the defense in order to knock it down) but pretty much NO shot is out of his range. we’ve all seen him hit shots from everywhere on the floor on multiple occasions(Game winneres and all).
Sekou even said in an article last season that Josh said he has to shoot every once in a while when he is open in order to keep the defense honest and open up driving lanes.
I think if Josh works with Price Every summer, we will start to see his consistancy increase over the coming years.
~Sir Links A Lot~
terrell barron
March 30th, 2009
2:06 pm
Lori, I’m not a Kobe fan at all, but the guy looked like he had a bad case of the flu last night. Now whether or not it hindered his performance, who knows? I do know that he wasn’t himself. But with the way we played defense last night, I dont know if it would’ve mattered. Question is, why cant we play defense like that on a consistent basis?
JerryWest
March 30th, 2009
2:07 pm
Bibby never plays a good game or a bad game. He plays the exact same game everyday. Some days his shots fall and some days it doesn’t. Whether it falls or not rarely encourages him to shoot more or less. Rest of his game rarely fluctuates. The fact that he is on autopilot is one of the reason Woody, himself on autopilot most of the time, likes him so much.
Astro Joe
March 30th, 2009
2:12 pm
Ariose, Smith has definitely cut down on his 3 point shooting and other than the Boston game (when he was asked to play SF), he has reduced his long-distance 2 shots as well. I disagree with your “range for days” comment but I would agree that he has done a better job of shooting where he is most effective… in the paint.
RLP
March 30th, 2009
2:47 pm
The game against Philly is the most important game left because of the tie breaker. If the Hawks win that game then that will reduce their magic number again Philly to 2 with 7 games remaining. If they lose to Philly then their magic number will remain at 5 because each team has won one game this season in their series and a Philly win will give them the tie breaker. So if at the end of the season the two teams are tied then Philly will get the higher seed since they would then hold the tie breaker. The Hawks would still be in a better position since they could win out but it would be harder..
The Hawks already hold the tie breaker against the Heat. So even though they a game closer to us in the lost column our tiebreaker means that the two teams behind us have the same number of games in the tie breaker. Now if all three teams were to wind up in a tie I do not know what the tiebreaker would be.
The point is that with a win the Hawks reduce the magic number by three against Philly. Big, Big game tomorrow night. Too bad it is in Philly.
Melvin
March 30th, 2009
2:48 pm
Astro Joe, I think Jarrett Jack would be a good pickup but I agree Hinrich would be the 1st choice out of that group. I can’t see BASG spending that type money on Hinrich and choosing not resign Bibby. If we acquire another PG this summer, than I think Acie days are number. Is McDyess a Free Agent? If so, then we should definetly go after him this summer.
Mike is back
March 30th, 2009
2:49 pm
HawksFan 11, it would be hard to disagree with you on the Josh trade, it’s annoying watching Josh go in to panic mode, every time the Hawks starts to sputter on offense, which is often. I still say that most of that is attributed to Woody’s offense, and no true floor leader on the team. In that Boston game in the third quarter when the wheel came off. JJ was clearly tick off the way the team was playing, but you never see him get in anybody face. He’s the consummate professional, some times to a fault. Leaders have to step up and lead, especially during adversity. Woody’s call three timeouts, and they came out flat every time. Josh has his miscues, but you win and loose as a team.
Astro Joe, it’s a simple way to keep Josh from hoisting up those ill-advised shots. Put his A on the pine, and hit’em in the pocket, asked Zaza.
I have to give him credit, HB ANDO MAN has been saying the same thing since we drafted Al. You gotta give him his props. The only problem with HB is his disdain for BK, usually overshadow his superlative prospective on the game.
Whether it’s Josh or Marvin, the Hawks have to come up with a package to get a quality Big. I would at lease start the wheel turning with Josh, that way teams will know we are serious, and Josh CAN GROW THE F UP. Some times change is the best thing.
I still don’t think it’s that simple as trading Josh and bring in a Big. Ultimately, it will come down to the HC. If you get a legit Big, and your offense is still design for the perimeters guys, what’s the use?
ant banks
March 30th, 2009
2:51 pm
inlight of woody’s progression in the wins columns, 13, 26, 30, 37+ playoffs, and this years 43+ wins season and 4th place in the east. can anyone see any reason WHY the hawks WOULD NOT bring woody back?
i know that the town is pretty much sick of his STYLE of offense, but dangit, it is workin’.
RLP
March 30th, 2009
2:52 pm
The biggest game on tap tonight (from a Hawks perspective) is between the Heat and the Magic at Miami. A Magic win will reduce the Hawks magic number against the Heat to 4. It is a big game for the Magic because they are fighting for home court against the Celtics in the second round. It is the game to follow tonight!
BA
March 30th, 2009
3:08 pm
Yeah doc, I’m not sure why Smith is such a polarizing figure for Hawks fans. Like the other players, he does some things exceptionally well but he has a number of flaws. But in that game Sunday, he was fighting down there in the post the whole game. He had a number of blocks and he really had Odom flustered. He fought every bit as hard as Pachulia for the boards (by the way I’m convinced Pachulia should be starting, even if Maurice is a good-luck charm).
No, Ant Banks- there is NO reason why the Hawks wouldn’t bring Woodson back. But don’t tell that to some of the cats around here…
doc
March 30th, 2009
3:09 pm
richie thanks again for the updates. lizards are sad, kind of remind me of the hawks a few years back.
Astro Joe
March 30th, 2009
3:16 pm
Ant, I heard a radio guy say this afternoon that Woody is like a fat man who is surprisingly healthy. When we first look at him, you want to criticize him. But upon closer inspection, you have to admit that he’s healthy and that the criticism may be less important than the fact that he is healthy (or in this case, the leader of a team with a homecourt playoff appearance).
Mike, I disgaree, Hawks don’t need a 36 minute a night center (and where do you find one anyway), just someone who can give us closer to 20 minutes on average. Horford is, in fact, NOT overmatched on most nights. Most of the time, a healthy front-court of Horford, Smith and Marvin will be more than capable of getting the job done. What we don’t have is that situational big man to come in when that front court is out-sized (or in foul trouble or when someone is hurt). I’d love to see the Hawks get Gortat from Orlando, dude appears to be a defensive jewel and may be affordable. I also like Rasho and have said so ad nauseum. He isn’t particularly mobile but he’s big and effective on both ends of the court. Gadzuric is expensive but seemingly is exactly the type of player we need. Darko would also be a nice pick-up, he can nail open jumpers and is a very effective shot-blocker.
While I am far from being a Smith fan (very far), someone would have to offer me a boat load before I deal him away. I truly believe that this nucleus deserves a chance to play with both a good PG and a good defensive center before we give up on the core.
ant banks
March 30th, 2009
3:24 pm
2nd question… is CLEVELAND CAVALIERS really THAT good at 60-13? i mean i have watched their games. saw them against the hawks at phillip’s and in cleveland, they really don’t impress me, despite their record and despite having LEBRON.
is anyone feelin’ me?
I MUS.WRITE
March 30th, 2009
3:25 pm
Smoove and our pick for The #1 pick…………. Sign Marvin and Draft Thabeet or B Griff to play with Horford. Iknow I know- Just wishful thinking lol……. Give me Patty Mills,Ty Lawson or Cole Aldrich if he’s there.
ant banks
March 30th, 2009
3:28 pm
ASTRO- that “healthy” fat man is me. lol
ant banks
March 30th, 2009
3:30 pm
ARIOSE-you want the Josh bashin’ to stop?? i want the woody bashin’ to stop. bashin’ either of these guys at this point in the season is preposterous.
richbrave
March 30th, 2009
3:37 pm
doc:
Exactly.
Ken Strickland
March 30th, 2009
3:44 pm
SEKOU-what’s the status of Marvin Williams? If he doesn’t return soon and get some game action and conditioning, he won’t be much help to us when the playoffs start. The same holds true for Acie Law, although he won’t likely see any playoff action anyway.
Samuel
March 30th, 2009
4:11 pm
I think we can hold Marvin out until the last 3 or 4 games and he can get back in shape. I would have him come off the bench though.
As much as I love Josh Smith’s game, I believe that it may be time for him to get a change of senery. He really looks confused on offense. He really needs to be in a system where he is better able to use his athleticism. Also, we are proving that we can win without JJ too.
JJ and Josh for Ellis, Jackson and Turiaf. Somebody mention McDyce? That would be an excellent pickup.
That brings me to a subject that’s near and dear to my heart. Mississippi.
Did yall know that Mississippi has more players on current NBA rosters than any other state “per capita”.(12). WOW!
Oh yea and Ando! You could have put up a better fight than that. Pathetic!
Woody=COY
Mike is back
March 30th, 2009
4:46 pm
Astro Joe, I agree. The scenario you present is a valid one. I would like to see the core stay together, I get annoyed when Josh takes those shots, but I am quickly reminded, that’s he’s straight out of High School, and Woody’s system is the only one he has played. For that reason I’m not convince we have seen all that Josh has to offer.
What I don’t want to see is a another young PG career wasted on Woody. I like All the Bigs you mentioned, I’ll take a pass on Darko. The marquee match-up against UConn and Michigan State should be a good test for Thabeet. If UConn wins the NCAA, which I think they will, then I think Thabeet will enter the draft. That’s my guy.
niremetal
March 30th, 2009
4:54 pm
Astro Joe,
I’m a fan of picking up an FA big man too, and I too think that Gortat would be a nice find. However, both Gortat and Gadzuric are 6′11 and less athletic than Horford, which means that Horford “plays bigger” than them in effect. Darko is the only one of those three who is a legit 7-footer, but he’s also got the least-imposing build. If we just are going for height, though, I’d probably make a run at Darko. Also, only Gortat is a FA this summer; Darko is locked up through next year and Gadzuric through 2011.
To quote myself from a couple threads ago:
And yes, we should re-sign Zaza. The only affordable big men on the market worth looking at are Mbenga, Foyle, and Gortat (lesser options include Magloire, Mihm, Robert Swift, Raef LaFrentz, and Jason Collins). Given all those options, I’d stick with Zaza, especially given Sund’s track record at signing big men. Foyle might be worth a hard look, though – he’s a great locker room guy. However, he’s not a 7-footer.
We could conceivably make a run at ‘Sheed, but I doubt we will. Same with Chris Kaman or Marcus Camby (although I’d trade Smoove for either in a flash).
doc
March 30th, 2009
5:10 pm
aj that is the most sensible thing you have said about josh this year if ever. no i wouldnt give him away without significant return. of the guys that signed this year he seems to have held his own despite his numbers being down. why would they be up when the trio of jj, bibby and flip take most of the shots. he and horford are our most efficient scorers, though not as steady as i would want them to be and can be quickly crowded out by larger teams. say what you want the guy is shooting about 50 % from the field. can he do better, you know i just bet he would be the first to say “yes, only way to find out is to feed me the ball steadily and let us find out”. as you pointed out he was taking these shots because it was where he was playing, short forward. that is why a seven footer with an outside shot would make it so very tough on teams trying to go big on us.
kwooden1
March 30th, 2009
5:34 pm
Great win last night!! Didn’t watch the game but saw highlights and looked at the box score. I’ve been watching a few of the Hawks games on tape and definitely see some of the root to their issues on offense. The Hawks run several different sets, I’m guessing 5+. The sets themselves are fine, the problem is that if they don’t get into a set properly or if it’s late in the shot clock they don’t have any options (i.e. Joe shoot!!) They need an offensive philosophy that takes advantage of their athletic abilities. I personally liked Eddie Jordan’s system or what the Jazz run, but either way something that works well for their players. They shouldn’t have to always figure out what set to run or get stuck thinking about the best set. When you watch the game you see a lot of guys trying to find their spots or just waiting around. I’ve watched the past Cleveland and Laker loses and they didn’t play that poorly on defense, they just couldn’t keep up in terms of scoring. I know Cleveland and the Lakers play great defense, but I think the Hawks have a lot of options they can exploit.
As for the summer and the draft, I think they should take the best available player and look to get a good price on Bibby and Marvin. Marvin’s your best asset, but I don’t believe you can trade for a big, so we should try and sign him. If they can get Speedy’s contract off the books they will have some more room. I believe their current Core has the potential to be a unique elite team, because of the speed and quickness they have at the C, PF and SF. I think another year of playoff maturity will go a long way.
GO HAWKS!!!
doc
March 30th, 2009
5:40 pm
oh dear, smack talk from the fantasy arena.
The Truth
March 30th, 2009
5:45 pm
Speaking of Acie Law, I’ve always admired his potential for the most part. Remember, he was haled by BK as the Hawks PG of the future. But his injury history is beginning to be a red flag on his resume given the few minutes per game he plays on average. It brings into question about his durability. I know that injury is common for most NBA players at some point in their careers. But because Acie is so young and so rarely used, his emerging injury prone image may alter his perception from other teams that might be otherwise interested in his services. We only need to look at Speedy to see how that could happen. There are other NBA players in the league that also suffers from the injury prone label, Greg Odom and Eddie Curry just to name a few. If there is a case to be made for the Hawks to look elsewhere for a promising PG, the main justification might be durability. Acie stock value keeps going down with the Dow every time he announces a new injury. I agree with a previous comment regarding Acie and Woody relationship, If Woody needs a legitimate bone to pick about Acie, than the subject of injury prone gives him some merit. Furthermore, if Acie is hoping to get dealt to his dream PG position elsewhere and away from Woody, his injury prone image might become the stumbling block issue. When you have a coach who coaches scared as some have suggested about Woody, than the last thing he need is to be forced to using an untested and injured prone PG as a starter (Assuming Bibby contract is not re-signed). If the ASG bought his case (in this hypothetical), Woody would, no doubt, breathe a sigh of relief knowing that his feared problem was dealt to another team or at least further down in his rotation as it is now. Remember, Woody is only interested in feeding his family, nothing more.
Rod from College Park
March 30th, 2009
5:45 pm
Melvin,
I agree. I think Jarrett Jack is the answer to all of our problems at the guard position. Have wanted him for the Hawks since his draft day.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 30th, 2009
6:21 pm
“As much as I love Josh Smith’s game, I believe that it may be time for him to get a change of senery. He really looks confused on offense. He really needs to be in a system where he is better able to use his athleticism.”
“Woody=COY”
…………………………………..
Najeh Davenpoop
March 30th, 2009
6:22 pm
“Ant, I heard a radio guy say this afternoon that Woody is like a fat man who is surprisingly healthy. When we first look at him, you want to criticize him. But upon closer inspection, you have to admit that he’s healthy and that the criticism may be less important than the fact that he is healthy”
The fat man may be surprisingly healthy at age 20, but he’s still more likely to die before the normal-sized guy.
jhan
March 30th, 2009
6:54 pm
Samuel – you should have taken Ando up on his pre-season fantasy bet. You’d have a check coming to you right now! LOL
I agree with AJ – I’d like to see this squad have another season together with a legit 7′ back-up & another shooter off the bench.
cheese
March 30th, 2009
7:23 pm
thank you Lori for bringing in positive statements!!! im tired of all the negative things being said even though the hawks are winning. we need more fans like you.
on another note i just recently went to a golden state warriors game at oracle arena. warriors played the 76rs and that place was a playoff atmosphere compared to philips arena. those people support thier teams no matter how bad the team is and what game it is. i highly doubt atlanta will ever be like that and i can only wish. with that being hawks fans need to start being more positive and stop hating on every thing that the hawks have going wrong.
Astro Joe
March 30th, 2009
7:38 pm
jhan, sad thing is Ando offered me double or nothing on the $100 bet that the Hawks wouldn’t make the playoffs and that he would do better than me in Fantasy. Oh well, I’ll settle for the $100 and Ando’s humiliation that you, Sam, Manny and myself represent the Fantasy version of Sekou’s Final Four.
doc, at first, I thought you were referring to the hand-written coaching advice from Woody (only sensible thing I’ve said regarding Josh). Oh well.
Ariose
March 30th, 2009
7:42 pm
You guys think Jarret Jack is the answer? Hah! You guys should visit a Blazers blog and see what they have to say about Jack. The fact that Steve Blake is considred an upgrade over Jack to them, and the fact that they traded him to Indiana for the rights to Bayless should tell you something. I’m just sayin’…
Remeber that “off-night” he had against Atlanta the last time we played Indiana? Well, according to the Blazer faithful it’s a very common recurring theme.
~Sir Links A Lot~
Blast
March 30th, 2009
8:02 pm
A point of note. Hawks ended another great team’s winning streak. Lakers were 5-0 coming to Philips and playing well on the road.
Y’all see that dude in the purple suit at the game yesterday? WTF? He obviously came expecting a Laker win. Eat crow, purple suit, as you trek home heart broken.
I’ve griped for years about that Sacramento/LA series. That was the beginning of the end for the Kings. Can you say highway robbery?
Can’t wait for the game tomorrow. Can’t believe we only have 8 more regular season games left b/f the season ends. It went by so fast! Hawks have really made my summer, regardless of how they end up. Guess time flies when you are having fun. Great to be a Hawks fan!
Go Hawks!
Astro Joe
March 30th, 2009
8:13 pm
Najeh, I doubt that Phil Jackson would have this roster any further than the 4th slot.
Ariose, I’m not a huge Jack fan but he has played well this year when he has been able to play more of a “combo” position and less as a pure PG. With a quality “offensive coordinator”, we could figure out a way to put up 100 points without a shot-happy PG… a scheme that would involve our front-court who have all shown the ability to put up 16+ each game (including that oft-disrespected guy who is absent).
Speaking of which, doc, do you really think that Smith is more efficient than Marvin?
Samuel
March 30th, 2009
8:16 pm
Naj,
Don’t get me wrong, I love Josh as a player. I just believe the hometown pressure is starting to get to him mentally. I hope it doesn’t come back to haunt us in the playoffs but he really isn’t comming close on his freethrows and that’s scary comming from your 4 man. We can overcome it but I really don’t like what i’m seeing.
Actually Joe i’m glad I didn’t take Ando up on that bet. The man has a new “BABY”. I wouldn’t feel right.
I guess the cream did rise to the top.
“Woody=COY”
niremetal
March 30th, 2009
9:13 pm
Well, if we want to talk about scoring efficiency…
Marvin actually has the highest “True Shooting Percentage” among Hawks starters (he’s at .565), TS% being a measure that takes into account both field goal and free throw percentage. Josh has the lowest (.516) and JJ second-lowest (.532). Zaza (.581) has the highest among our 8-man rotation.
Believe it or not, Bibby has the highest “Effective FG%” among our starters, eFG% being a measure that takes into account the fact that 3 pointers are worth more than 2 pointers. Bibby’s is .522, just ahead of Horford’s .520. Marvin is at .499 and Josh (.493) and JJ (.488) again are last among starters. Mo (.535) leads our 8-man rotation with Flip (.517) and Zaza (.512) near the middle of the pack.
See this link for more info:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2009.html
niremetal
March 30th, 2009
9:15 pm
Well, if we want to talk about scoring efficiency…
Marvin actually has the highest “True Shooting Percentage” among Hawks starters (he’s at .565), TS% being a measure that takes into account both field goal and free throw percentage. Josh has the lowest (.516) and JJ second-lowest (.532). Zaza (.581) has the highest among our 8-man rotation.
Believe it or not, Bibby has the highest “Effective FG%” among our starters, eFG% being a measure that takes into account the fact that 3 pointers are worth more than 2 pointers. Bibby’s is .522, just ahead of Horford’s .520. Marvin is at .499 and Josh (.493) and JJ (.488) again are last among starters. Mo (.535) leads our 8-man rotation with Flip (.517) and Zaza (.512) near the middle of the pack.
See this link for more info.
richbrave
March 30th, 2009
9:40 pm
Ariose:
Against the WIZARDS the other night he was a monster, but what do you expect against a team with no team defense.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 30th, 2009
10:28 pm
Dammit… does any comment with links get caught up in the “awaiting moderation” web or is there some kind of juice Ariose and MannyT have that allows them to post links?
Najeh Davenpoop
March 30th, 2009
10:32 pm
I don’t know if my previous comment will get moderated or not, but here it is without links:
Sam, that’s not what I was talking about. I was talking about your statement that he looks confused on offense because the system doesn’t allow him to use his athleticism. Doesn’t it directly fall on Woody to implement an offense that allows their players to take advantage of their strengths?
AJ, maybe not, but I’m pretty sure a Phil Jackson-coached Hawks team wouldn’t have allowed losses like the 121-87 defeat by Orlando or the loss to Charlotte earlier this month to happen to them. I’m not saying the fact that the fat guy is healthy isn’t important, but it would obviously help him if he lost the weight anyway.
And I realize Phil Jackson isn’t sitting with the bums by the Philips Arena MARTA station waiting for someone to hire him — to me this is the main argument for keeping Woodson, that most of the available replacements are probably more like Isiah Thomas than Phil Jackson. But I don’t think that means Woody has reached the status yet where his strengths outweigh his weaknesses. Maybe it wouldn’t make them a contender, but I definitely think the Hawks would be much closer to elite than they are right now if they had a good coach.
Big Ray
March 30th, 2009
10:42 pm
Astro Joe,
Always knew you didn’t like Smith. I’ve always agreed that if it makes the team better, then trade him. Same goes for anybody else on the roster, although some I would be more unhappy with moving (Horford). The problem is, who do you trade for, and how do you make it work? And every time I ask THAT question, I get the most bizarre answers. It’s all good though, because he could very well be gone this summer, and then there would be less to complain about for some people. If he is, I just hope he becomes a better player. Not as much as I hope this becomes a better team, mind you. I like Josh, but I’m a HAWKS fan….Anyway, I think Josh detractors will have a better shot at happiness then Woody detractors. Get your party hat and confetti ready.
By the way, your suggestion of Kirk Hinrich is the most sound. I like Jarrett Jack (and if I recall correctly, you didn’t think much of him back in the day…or was that Ando? I can’t remember), but I don’t see what he can do that Acie can’t do with the same amount of playing time. Of course, if you’re one of those guys who thinks Acie is another wasted lottery pick, then it’s a moot point. Maybe he is, but the proof just isn’t there on EITHER side of that argument.
However, I agree all too well with the idea of acquiring a fairly young veteran pg like Hinrich. It just works better that way because Woody is either too uncomfortable or simply unable to coach up a young pg who isn’t an instant success type (and you know who I’m talking about, but let’s not go there). And you said it yourself: we can get by without a high-scoring, shoot-happy pg just fine (I’d rather have a guy who defends and penetrates anyway). The trick to it is having a better offensive strategy (hence the coordinator comment). Well, I know you like Woody. But I’m curious as to how you figure this offensive coordinator thing is going to work. Woodson is “the man” on the sidelines. It’s his way or no way. And lately (try the last 5 years), I haven’t seen a lot of offensive innovation. Just sayin’…
Mike is Back,
Interesting point. Smith is straight out of high school, and all he’s ever known in the NBA as far as head coaches has been Woody. While I won’t blame Woody for Josh’s personality or character, surely he has something to do with Josh’s development. Funny, when people want to give him credit, they talk about Woody doing such a good job with this team, having been dealt a bad hand and all this other stuff (sometimes people can’t decide who they want to defend more, Knight or Woodson, but you can’t do both at the same time). Well guess what? That is a two-edged sword.
When you get credit for the product that’s on the floor, you get credit for the successes…and the failings. Anything else is a double standard.
doc
March 30th, 2009
10:48 pm
ba saw your comments belatedly and concur.
aj, this team goes no where if josh is not at the top of his game defensively as that is where they will have to start any success. my comments were more the line of for time spent with the ball the bigs are more efficient than the smalls. i consider marvin in there with the smalls; since he isnt playing i really didnt even consider him. he may be done. josh is still right up there league wise on blocks even with a bad wheel most of the season. just playing with you on the remark as down as you have been on him at least you recognize his value.
nire interesting stuff, were you surprised at how low jj ranked. where does kobe and d wade fit.
Big Ray
March 30th, 2009
10:49 pm
Samuel,
Your comments about Josh Smith really do strike a chord. I think you’re right about him, and the pressures. And some of the things he does are still just crazy. Maybe a change of scenery will do wonders for him. All I’m really concerned with is getting good player/players in return. I don’t want some stiff that Sund is out there fantasizing about. I don’t want some journeyman that will pass right through here in a year. I want a good fit, not a quick fix. I also want a million dollars, but that ain’t happening…Anyway, that’s my only concern.
And this team will have to become better defensively, as a unit. If moving Josh does that, and the team is more efficient offensively, then so be it.
Also, interesting comments you made on JJ. That is something to think about and consider. He may want to move along as it is. But again, it has to be a good trade. It will be interesting what is decided as far as who this core is to be built around. I still say this team can be built around JJ and Horford, but some things would still have to change. But if not JJ, then whom do you build the team around? Horford is one nomination. After that, (and if you’re excluding JJ), it’s either Marvin or Smoove (or both). Gettin’ kinda tricky at that point.
RLP
March 30th, 2009
11:00 pm
Heat lose. They are now tied with Philly in the loss column and our magic number to be higher seeded against then has been reduced to four with 8 to play. If we go 4 and 4 the rest of the way we will be no lower than the fifth seed giving us a better chance to advance to the second round since we will not be playing one of the top three.
niremetal
March 30th, 2009
11:01 pm
The relationship between Josh and Woody reminds me in a lot of ways of the relationship between Iverson and Larry Brown, although it should be obvious that Josh is not nearly as talented nor as focused a player as Iverson and that Woody has nowhere near the coaching acumen of Brown. But the same dynamic appears to be at work with them – the player has a big ego that is (paradoxically?) easily bruised, and the coach is demanding and has a blunt manner. The match may seemed doom to fail on the surface, but at the same time it’s easy to see that the coach and player push each other to greater heights. After their latest locker room confrontation about a month ago, we all saw Smoove go on a tear and Woody start to coach better. The result was a 7-0 homestand.
It’s interesting. I honestly think that keeping Josh around might actually be best for both of them in terms of their development as a player and a coach. I don’t buy for a second that there is a coach in the NBA not named Phil or Greg who could get through to Josh any better than Woody already does. And I think that Woody is a better coach as a result of having Josh around to push his buttons. But of course, that does not mean, that the team is better off having them both around.
Big Ray
March 30th, 2009
11:22 pm
Co-sign Najeh on Woody. He’s not worthless. And he’s probably better than a lot of guys who don’t have jobs (at least for this franchise). But being out of a job doesn’t make you any more of a failure than being a first-timer. Everybody has to start somewhere. Besides, when guys like Mike Dunleavy can keep THEIR jobs…and well all know the head coaching job is the hardest job to keep in the NBA.
Look, just want Woody to grow to be better. A little quicker, I might add. Surely that’s not too much too ask, when we ask the same of our players. Woody has been a head coach for the same amount of time Josh has been a player, right? Here’s the difference: Woody was a “top assistant” coach in the NBA longer than Josh has been playing organized b-ball….
Niremetal,
Interesting stats. I can only hope Marvin returns to form, and that one day (freakin’ soon) he’s allowed to do more in the offense than he does now. It’s almost a waste otherwise….why have a weapon you don’t use enough?
Ill-logical,
Intersting view point on Acie Law and how Woody feels about him. Trust is not earned easily or quickly. But Woody would do well to figure it out, “back spasms” or not. A guy named Poppovich didn’t toss a wild kid named Parker to the curb. He sure could have. Parker was a turnover machine who didn’t play very good defense.
How many other guys do you suppose are playing through those same pains? Didn’t Bibby have the sniffles for a bit? He didn’t play. And when he did, it was damn awful. Hell, I WANTED him to sit, it was obvious he wasn’t himself. Besides, it’s not like Acie is always out with something. His wrist injury last year was legit. And how badly would YOU want to play through an injury for a guy like Woodson? Play well in one game, get a DNP the next as your reward. Play 27 minutes tonight and record 16/3/3, with the best +/- on the team. Tomorrow night your reward is 6 minutes. Huh. I can’t imagine how motivating that is. Woody didn’t have jack to say about Law until all these tough game started coming up (when he knew Bibby was going to get roasted out there). Just sayin’…
Big Ray
March 30th, 2009
11:30 pm
Niremetal,
Interesting point. But you forgot a thing or two. Iverson was so damn talented that he could take over a game at any time. But he ROUTINELY disrespected Brown and his teammates by missing or being late for practice, team shootarounds, team meetings, flights, etc. And he did that for YEARS. Josh may have cussed Woody a few times, and I certainly don’t condone that in any way, but he never has shown this level of disrespect, and he’s not the team captain (or even considered the leader or best player). Of course, scoring 30ppg (and taking all the shots) will tend to mask such things over for the average fan.
Josh is not the team leader, even though he can be a distraction. Iverson was, and he was the greatest distraction of all, while playing for a proven coach in Brown. Like I said, 30ppg will change the view of all of that…always has, always will. But the precedent itself cannot be ignored.
Big Ray
March 30th, 2009
11:31 pm
Niremetal,
Your last sentence resonates the most, though. Could be true. We’ll see, won’t we?
niremetal
March 31st, 2009
12:11 am
Doc,
Wade’s TS% is .571. Kobe’s is .558. JJ’s is .532. It’s a bit closer on eFG% – Wade is .513, Kobe is .498, and JJ is .488.
For what it’s worth, when JJ was at his productivity peak in 2006-2007, his TS% was .558 and his eFG% was .523 – freakish for someone who bore as heavy an offensive load as he did.
Those stats are a bit loaded, of course. Even though they take into account the fact that 3-pointers are worth more, they still show a serious bias towards post players and spot-up shooters. Guys who score a lot of points off the dribble – like Wade, Kobe, MJ…and JJ – tend to slide way down on those “efficiency” rankings. I mean, if you go on TS%, Kevin Martin is the best backcourt player in the NBA today.
My impression based on looking at those stats is this – the best way to build a contender from an offensive standpoint is to have 1 guy who can score in bunches. If that guy is efficient (like Larry or Magic), great. If not (like Isiah or Michael), then make sure you surround that guy with efficient players.
doc
March 31st, 2009
7:02 am
nire, seems it is kind of what i was driving at, folks that keep the ball in their possession and dont score with either big points at the foul line or dont shoot well from the field say by taking 20 to 25 shots to get 18 points are not efficient. we seem to get caught up in the totals instead of how quickly they were gotten. to me, this year jj has flagged a bit more than in the past. said ti earlier in the season and was trounced as a hata. seems the numbers justify my comments a bit.
i also said just about the same thing you did when i said woody and josh need each other to round off their edges a bit. laughingly i said josh should be given as much credit for the run as woody since he reacted to woody, cleared the air and then didnt sulk but went on a rampage. doubt either one knew as the outburst occurred how it would turn out but was an accumulation of each of their own frustrations.
ultimately this team doesnt have the players or the system to outscore anybody. it will go as far as the defense takes it so the relevant numbers might be more how efficient they are on stops. when they play that way they make offensive opportunities. when they dont or get sloppy and start running they fall flat.
good info nire, thanks. i also like to go to 82 games and see how the numbers look with certain combinations of players. funny how zaza tends to “score” pretty well in those team plus/minus categories along with jj and josh. interestingly enough, marvin usually sucks.
dont know but wonder if their are statistics that show what a guy does with rest vs. on back to back games. that might be more the tale of the tape for playoffs since there are no back to backs. the piece that one has to have for the most part is home court unless a key player has an injury that derails a superior team in the playoffs which is what happened to phoenix the year jj got hurt and had to sit most of its series with the spurs. fourth seed is vital and seems like the guys are going to lock it down sooner rather than later.
kwooden1
March 31st, 2009
7:57 am
doc, I agree about the winning through defense. I watched the last Celtics loss last night and they only started to come back once they got stops and were able to push the ball off fastbreaks. They have several set plays that are effective, but their overall offensive system is lacking. I’m not sure if they haven’t truly bought in, or if its the wrong system, but it’s not effective against good defenses.
For the game tonight, they are going to have to shoot the ball well and hit the boards. They don’t have to push the ball as much but I think Horford is going to have to score more inside. Philly’s going to double JJ and force JS to shoot from the outside. Evans is going to get some looks because of all the double teaming, so he going to have to knock them down. I hope Bibby comes ready to pass the ball because they are a lot better when he’s penetrating and making plays.
PLAYOFF Basketball Sounds good to me!!
GO HAWKS!!
ajw
March 31st, 2009
7:58 am
I was at the laker game, and I was absolutely disgusted by the crowd cheering for the visitors. Kobe is such a jerk. There is really nothing likable about the guy, other than his basketball game. I wish there was some way to trade away 70% of the home crowd. This has to be a big reason why free agents don’t want to come here. Basketball fans in Atlanta are awful.
dap01
March 31st, 2009
8:17 am
The Hawks record is improving DESPITE of Woody. He is terrible in every area of coaching. He was hired because he was the cheapest option for our disfunctional owners. He remained last year because he was the cheapest option for a bunch of disfunctional owners.
I love the Hawks and yes, they have promise. But it is also frustrating to be this many years into a total rebuilding, this many years into lottery after lottery and still have a poorly balanced team, a coach who does not fit the players, a mystery GM who is quietly doing nothing and a bunch of owners whose only focus is court proceedings.
doc
March 31st, 2009
8:51 am
ajw, there is a core of hawks fans that come to games. funny 15000 have sounded pretty impressive, not like it was for the playoffs but loud enough. the problem with that is it leaves about 5000 seats “open” for relocation folks to atlanta to buy up when there team or favorite star comes in. they fill the seats and make some noise. the best way to stop them is to win and develop a larger core of fans that are willing to pay put for season tix. winning helps and the better job the basg does the better it will be to keep others out of ear shot.
until then i welcome those that come. it helps our hawks as it provides revenue stream to get more players if the basg decides to go that route. double edged sword to complain about those folks as they are paying top dollar for those seats and it indirectly helps us devoted hawks fans. of course ajw, it is your right to go out and buy up those seats to keep them out.
Astro Joe
March 31st, 2009
9:26 am
Ray, trust me, I don’t “like” Woodson. But I’m a bottom line kind of guy and while I had empiracle evidence to rant against him when we were winning 30 or less games, I personally feel foolish doing so this season. We’re all guilty of biases. Marvin clearly was having a better season this year. Better 3-ball, nice running hook in the lane, much better on-ball defense and improved rebounding. Yet some still want to criticize him because he isn’t graceful or because of what BK did on draft night. Neither of those criticisms hold water to the results and the evidence of watching him for those 50+ games this season. Smith has significantly reduced his 3-ball shooting yet some fans have that stuck in his head. I personally don’t think that he should ever shoot a 3 ball with more than 3 seconds on the shot clock, ever, but evidence shows that he is shooting less 3-balls. So I guess if some are willing to recognize Smith’s progress or Marvin’s progress, then I am hard pressed to continue to scream about Woody. Much like I think Smith is an undisciplined, selfish player who won’t likely realize his vast potential (certainly not in Atlanta), I also think that Woody is a stubborn control-freak who is limited in his ability to make game-time adjustments. But the warts on both Smith and Woody (and Joe, Bibby, Horford, Marvin, Mo, Flip, Acie, Zaza, etc) have been well-enough concealed this season that I simply have decided to enjoy the ride. And yes, sometimes I even try to defend them (mostly Woody)… just because I think it’s foolish to use the same criticisms in a 45+ win season as we did in the 26-win season. We all have a blind-spots when it comes to individuals associated with this team.
Ray, I mentioned in a later post that I am not a Jarrett Jack fan (it was me that you were thinking about). But he seems to play better when he is a “combo” guard as opposed to a classic PG. And obviously with JJ, no PG would be expected to truly be a John Stockton-type. But let there be no doubt, Kirk Hinrich is the guy I want. He’s my top choice and the next choice wouldn’t even come close. I just don’t know that we have the assets to make it happen but he is far and away at the top of my PG wish list.
doc
March 31st, 2009
9:36 am
not to be contrarian i agree with your views there aj. pragmatic i am more than contrarian. heh heh
no reason to run either woody or josh off or marvin for that matter. just have to be aware of their strengths and weaknesses. i still think the odd couple can make each other better just by the abrasive quality of their “love’ for each other. kind of reminds me something of the blog, eh?
kwooden1
March 31st, 2009
10:06 am
Astro, Hinrich is a great player but he’s making 9M next year, which is more than I think Bibby would be willing to take. I personally think that Bibby would stay for between 6-7M (a little more than Speedy’s salary), so I think the priority is getting Speedy off the books. Zaza is actually playing really well, so he might be the hardest one to resign this summer. If we let him go, we’re definitely going to have to sign Solo and hope that Morris is ready to play. I think they should be able to resign Flip because he’s finally in a position that really fits his skills. The real difficult issues are going to come when they have to give Horford and JJ raises! They are going to be right at or above the salary cap. Not to mention I’ve heard the entire 10/11 season is in question because of the collective bargaining agreement. (where’s MannyT when you need to talk NBA contract issues!) The HAWKS have some real questions to answer, especially since they don’t have a traditional lineup, with Horford playing out of position. I don’t think any team has proven that it can win consistantly without a traditional scoring center accept Detroit (But they have Rashaed Wallace)
ILL-logical
March 31st, 2009
10:26 am
Tonight’s game, hopefully, will shed some light on not only the Hawks current status but serve as a snapshot for what we might become in the future.
The Sixer’s may be more than our first round opponent; the are also the new up and coming team. The current status of the Hawks.
Where the organization goes from here regarding development of an identity/brand; building market share and eventually winning the championship begins tonight.
Sautee
March 31st, 2009
11:09 am
kwooden1,
Just gotta ask. Would you stay at your current job if your employer asked you to take nearly a 60% cut in pay? Even if you thought it would be tough finding a job?
I think the idea that Bibby would sign for $6-7M after making $15.25 is a little optimistic.
Yes, he’ll make less on his next contract, but I’ll be SHOCKED if it’s THAT much less. But, hey, I’ve been shocked before.
Melvin
March 31st, 2009
11:34 am
Sautee,
If you was a GM of another team, would you pay Bibby 10 mil?
Kwooden1,
Keeping with your scenario. I dont think it will be that difficult if the Hawks choose to bring back the same team. Keep in mind, Bibby takes a 8-9 mil paycut (this off season) and Speedy’s contract comes off the books after next season. So techinally, BASG will have roughly 15 mil in savings going forward to resign/spend on payroll if they so choose to.
Sekou K. Smith
March 31st, 2009
12:10 pm
New blog up!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rollins Tree
March 31st, 2009
9:17 pm
WOODSON CAN NOT LEAD A TEAM TO WIN ON THE ROAD!!!!!
HOPE HE IS GONE AFTER THIS SEASON!!!