General Hawkspital
Luke and Laura or Josh and Woody?
HAWKSVILLE – So we’re back to this are we?
Feuds between Hawks coach Mike Woodson and his players isn’t anything new around here. But I have to admit, I thought it was a thing of the past.
I foolishly assumed that last year’s playoff run and this past summer’s realization that things had to get better from there was the end of all the drama.
And then Friday night happened and the Hawks locker room turned into an episode of General Hawkspital, the Hawks produce more drama in a season than Luke and Laura did in 20 years together.
It’s not clear exactly what words got tossed back and forth between Woodson and longtime co-star Josh Smith. But it’s safe to assume that they weren’t talking about catching a movie together on the next off day.
What became abundantly clear as the media scrambled through the Hawks’ locker room before tonight’s game against Detroit at Philips Arena is that whatever fences that needed to be mended got the treatment required.
Smith was smiling. Woodson, too. It was no doubt the product of an earlier face-to-face between the two where they (once again) hashed out their differences, promised to try and do better and then went their separate ways.
The only glitch in this entire process is that these two guys are joined at the wrist (no handcuffs needed). They’ll share the blame this summer if this season continues to spiral out of control for the Hawks, who are in need of major boost with just 20 games left in the season and the official chase for the fourth spot in the Eastern Conference already in full stride.
You’d think that would be clear to them by now. Smith is the only player still here from Woodson’s first day of training camp in 2004.
I suspect they’ll never be super close. Sometimes guys just don’t mix well, their personalities clash. But in the meantime, they might want to find a way to work together so the Hawks don’t take a promising season and dump it in the trash.
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289 comments Add your comment
niremetal
March 7th, 2009
9:51 pm
Ray,
Gimme a break, man. You can go back through the posts and see that I’ve given JJ plenty of grief for his play during the past 2 months. We’ve each said our piece, now let’s move on.
otrhawksfan,
Where’d you hear that? That’s damned good news if Acie is getting more PT going forward. I guess tonight just didn’t count as “going forward.”
ray
March 7th, 2009
9:53 pm
Niremetal,
Dadgummit. I was trying to bait you into “lawyer mode.” You come with the hottest stuff when you’re in full argument. How dare you diffuse the situation, that’s my job, and I was in full instigation mode!
ARRRRRRR!
Actually, I was giving JJ a hard time to make a point about how people tend to react to certain players. If Josh had JJ’s line from tonight, you know good and well there would be catcalls aplenty. But JJ, who is supposed to be our best player, has a bad game, and all you hear is crickets (well, for the most part). JJ has not been playing that great lately. And you know what? I think we are seeing a natural change.
Our forwards are potent, and if they are playing well, and getting the ball often enough in their spots, they produce. Teams are geared to stop JJ, and they are doing it. Hell, Raja Bell did it all by himself last night.
I think we need to continue to run that ball into the hands of our forwards, and run screens for Bibby and JJ, so they get open looks. Bibby is at his best when he has a second or fraction thereof of free sight of the basket. JJ can hit shots when guys are on him, but he’s better off isolated.
We can’t run ISO Joe (which works if it’s one-on-one, not one-on-two/three) when we need to unless we run the ball through our other options.
This, like most others, is a Woody issue. You play how you practice. Where are all the screens that Bibby and JJ should be running off of? Actually, screen for Bibby, and let Joe facilitate, running the occasional screen for him.
Then, if the game gets tight, let JJ go one-on-one, and if the double team comes, make them pay with a pass to the open guy. JJ missed more shots tonight because we don’t play that way. And who are we going to go to for plays like that in the playoffs?
I swear this is not being taught. We rarely see it.
Astro Joe
March 7th, 2009
9:54 pm
Yeah, let’s ignore that every team plans to stop JJ because he is our primary offensive weapon. Surely, he sould be able to defeat each and every double and triple team while guarding a guy who moves constantly on the defensive end like Rip Hamilton.
I know I have personally asked Smith to dominate on the boards and block shots… something that I think can happen with effort and hustle. I was thrilled to see it tonight and I’m hoping he keeps it up. I don’t need 19 from Smith… just the 8-12 boards. And that ain’t got (yes, ain’t got) nothing to do with coaching.
ValdostaMike
March 7th, 2009
9:57 pm
No threes attempted by Josh tonight and only 2 turnovers (still high for a power forward). Excellent, I will take it every night. He had a good night as did everyone but Marvin. Marv was great on D. I hope this is a turning point and the benching will be the last of it. Go Hawks!
Da Real Real
March 7th, 2009
10:17 pm
Just got back from the game. Good to see the guys bounce back – looks like Marvin may have got injured so I hope he’s ok and can be back soon. Other than that I am glad to see the energy return tonight, I thought we was in trouble at the start of the game but got on track and played some really good D in that second half. Maybe that Josh meltdown in the last game was what this team needed – get everything out in the open and settle issues and come out and play good basketball.
Harry Hawk
March 7th, 2009
10:17 pm
This is an interesting team to cheer for, isn’t it?
Glad to see Josh play a very active game tonight. Woody also showed some common sense by getting Joe out of there. All in all, a nice win at home against a team that has been playing well.
doc
March 7th, 2009
10:54 pm
terrell get yourself some california poppy for the games to aid your nerves.
funny how jj has looked asleep for the past two months and folks just smile and say that is our all star. we got one guy who wants to win to the point he will stand up and say what we have been saying here for months. so people take their shots at him. now mat,t dude, what team have you been watching during the 13 and 18 stretch? jj’s?
fun game tonight. you should have seen me riding some trash talking piston fans tonight. had melvin and his pardner as back up a few feet away. gave them the broom sign as soon as jj sank those wo free throws.
zaza, smash and horford were huge tonight.
doc
March 7th, 2009
10:57 pm
aj you do when mr efficiency, jj takes as many shots he does to get his points. rips and sheeds numbers look similar to what jj hs done this year getting points … taking a lot of shots. j smash had some points with emphasis tonight too.
TskOoOo
March 7th, 2009
11:22 pm
1) We’re lucky Smoove didn’t get a T in the final minutes. He went up for a layup and clearly was hit, but no call, and he screamed and pointed at the ref, but it was so loud in the building the ref didn’t call a Technical
2) How can anyone legitimately talk about a playoff run with this team? You all heard our GM: Our only goal is to make the playoffs and have a winning record. What a goal.
3) Joe and Bib played way too many minutes tonight. It was obvious/has become obvious Joe is not on his game.
4) We have 5 bench players that would not make any other roster in the NBA
mykhalc
March 7th, 2009
11:38 pm
WOODSON and common sense??? sorry…mutually exclusive!!! not possible on this earth plane as we know it today!!
Harry Hawk
March 7th, 2009
11:46 pm
Woody has common sense sometimes. The main reason why this team is so damned inconsistent is that every guy on the team (and the head coach) can’t seem to put up a solid string of performances for weeks at a time.
mykhalc
March 8th, 2009
12:01 am
one is definitely entitled to their opinion, no doubt. common sense is somethin’ that is shown on a consistent basis IMHO. anybody, includin’ WOODSON can stumble on somethin’ that looks like he’s exhibitin’ common sense at a given point. hell the same thing coulda been said for DUB’YA!!! and sorry for the political analogy!!! couldn’t think of a better person to make my point tho!! but this team is inconsistent because it has a HC that cannot coach and cannot lead!!! there is no other explanation for this to show the same tendencies with different personnel!!! tie it right back to WOODSON!!!
mykhalc
March 8th, 2009
12:06 am
to be more clear…if he could coach AND the players believed in him we’d be seein’ **consistently** a different result on the floor IMHO
ray
March 8th, 2009
12:18 am
There is a reason why JJ sees double and triple teams. We have not established consistent offense through the front line. Make them a constant, sure threat and watch the double teams melt away.
Teams plan on stopping JJ (and it’s working, by the way) because they know WITHOUT A DOUBT, that we’re going to put the ball in his hands, and he’s going to hold onto it, and take a number of difficult shots.
If we had more ball movement, involved the frontcourt early and often, and set screens for Bibby and JJ a lot more, they’d get better, less contested looks at the basket.
Instead, we don’t cut, we don’t curl, and we keep giving them the ball to take contested shots. Hence the bad shooting percentages and the double teams for JJ.
JJ is a guy who can’t be stopped very often when he goes one-on-one. Much like Brandon Roy. But unlike Roy, who trusts his teammates and involves the frontcourt heavily, JJ does not have that kind of coaching, or that kind of trust with his teammates. It has to start somewhere. As long as it starts, and we maintain it.
Otherwise, teams continue to have the same scouting reports: Stop JJ.
The thing is, with Bibby around, JJ may as well just relegate himself to distributing the ball. Bibby’s gonna shoot…
richbrave
March 8th, 2009
12:22 am
Do any of you folks follow high-school ball at DULUTH or MARIETTA? Both of the UNIVERSITY of RICHMOND’s starting guards hail from the great PEACH STATE. Soph. KEVIN ANDERSON dropped 29 on #17 XAVIER tonight as the good guys prevailed 80-75. The shooting guard is Junior DAVID GONZOLVEZ. He only got 8 this evening, but averages a team high 16+. I was just wondering if either player was highly regarded or recruited coming out of secondary school. What’s in the water down there anyway?
Sekou K. Smith
March 8th, 2009
1:50 am
Marvin tweaked his back, so the off day today (Sunday) is exactly what he needs. Hawks get back at it Monday against CP3 and his crew. Should be nasty.
mykhalc
March 8th, 2009
3:25 am
anytime a player is out is a plus for WOODSON…gives him less to think about!!! WOODSON…the perfect coach for a game of HORSE!!! ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS…for the 3rd year in a row!!!
Saint Richt
March 8th, 2009
9:15 am
Need to fire Woodson.
Need to build this team around Marvin and Horford. Johnson is playing his way out of Atlanta and we will see what Bibby wants as a FA.
doc
March 8th, 2009
9:18 am
myk, glad to know you still care about us!
yup sautee still playin, heard em and he sounds good!
how you brutha?
JerryWest
March 8th, 2009
9:20 am
Only twice in 2009, a Hawk scored in the 30s and nether was done by JJ.
Bibby and Marvin had one game each in the 30s.
Is there a stat that shows which player had the ball for how many minutes?
Its time to call JJ “Joe the pounder”.
doc
March 8th, 2009
9:21 am
T O in buffaO.
that is rich.
the slide continues.
Hawk73
March 8th, 2009
9:34 am
Why would anyone give Woodson the benefit of the doubt? He has alienated players before Josh Smith (hence his entire bench, especially Salim Stoudamire -then- Acie Law – now). He has earned nothing in regards to player/coach respect. I am tired of watching Woodson scowl on the sidelines while massively undercoaching his team. The meaning of coach should be to develop, teach, and put your players in the best position to have success. I am certain Woodson doesn’t meet any of the above criteria.
hawksfan
March 8th, 2009
10:55 am
Enter your comments here
hawksfan
March 8th, 2009
10:56 am
Hey guys check out Joe behind the scenes at the “Lead the Charge” Jordan commercial:
And here talking about his leadership on the court
Reggie
March 8th, 2009
11:01 am
Sekou
What player do you think AL Horford reminds you of?
hawksfan
March 8th, 2009
11:07 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX35j7zGJXk
hawksfan
March 8th, 2009
11:09 am
Here is Joe talking about his leadership on the court:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN7_mbq1uiE
mykhalc
March 8th, 2009
11:09 am
doc, whatz shakin’ my cosmic friend??? you know i’m with the team, regardless of the ’shaved one’!!! hard to take watchin’ the same stuff tho!!! it’s REALLY time that SUND moves him!!! if SUND keeps him i won’t renew NBALP that’s for sure. i’ll follow the team thru the blog only. this economic tsunami requires smart money and watchin’ WOODSON coach the HAWKS another year would be me throwin’ my limited funds away!! can’t afford it!!! and in truth, the HAWKS CANNOT afford it!!!
Fred
March 8th, 2009
11:15 am
Good comeback by Josh last night
http://www.examiner.com/x-2723-Atlanta-Hawks-Examiner~y2009m3d8-Redemption-is-a-beautiful-thing
Ken Strickland
March 8th, 2009
12:05 pm
ASTRO JOE-we don’t know if Smith is uncoachable or not. As HC, Woodson has spent more time and effort being a disciplinarian than a mentor and developer of young talent.
It also appears the relationship between Woodson and some of his players is reflective of the fractured relationship between team owners, and for a simular reason, “CONTROL”. HOW CAN THE OWNERS C0NSIDER FIRING A HC THAT’S OBCESSED WITH THE SAME AGENDA THEY’VE BEEN BATTLING OVER FOR YRS? How ironic would it be to see Joe Johnson, the very cause of this ownership rift, become a FA and depart, leaving the SAASG and Belkin still battling over what his signing started.
It’s March, and most NBA teams are coming together to either make a playoff run and/or move up in the standings, all except the Hawks. We’ve now become a win 1 lose 2 or win 1 lose 3 type of team. Last yr, the SAASG decided to keep Woodson and fire the GM. This yr, they’ll have to make a decision between Woodson and the players, because a lot of the players will not resign if he’s still the HC.
Piston Powered » Blog Archive » Professional Game Coverage: Atlanta 87, Detroit 83
March 8th, 2009
1:24 pm
[...] “General Hawkspital,” by Sekou Smith [...]
dap01
March 8th, 2009
2:06 pm
The offense still consist of someone coming to the player pounding the ball (Bibby or Joe) and then it’s one on one.
There is no offense.
If we had someone who could put the ball in players hands in the flow of an offense, our athletic players could excell. Bibby is a great player but is less mobile than a 45 year old.
richbrave
March 8th, 2009
5:05 pm
So the silence leads me to believe no one has background on either GONZOLVEZ or ANDERSON.
doc
March 8th, 2009
5:10 pm
rb both programs are huge, just dont keep up with it. if they come from there chances are they can play. the williams kid you like from the sixers was from the atlanta area just cant remember which school but it might have been one of them as well. he rocked in high school and they tried to make it labronesque.
richbrave
March 8th, 2009
5:19 pm
doc:
Looks like my spring break trip will be to ATLANTIC CITY for the A-10 conference basketball championship. Trip south getting iffy.
ILL-logical
March 8th, 2009
6:08 pm
How about Mark Jackson?
Can he come in and bring order to a disordely situation that is in crisis from top to bottom.
With the current point guard situation about to have a dramatic change this off season, his experience would be helpful.Plus, although he would be rookie HC his media savvy would be an asset in this media coverge challenged market.
O'brien
March 8th, 2009
6:54 pm
Doc and rb, If I’m not mistaken, Williams was from South Gwinnett.
Ken Strickland, you are correct. It will be very ironic if JJ departs as a free agent, or if he gets traded, since he is the cause of the ownership battle.
However, I’ll be surprised if JJ leaves as a free agent. He endorsed Woody last year, and said that’s one of the reasons he wanted to come to ATL from Phoenix.
ILL-logical, I would prefer an experienced head coach (such as Flip Saunders or Avery Johnson).
ray
March 8th, 2009
7:34 pm
Fred,
Nice work, man. Nice work.
Rod from College Park
March 8th, 2009
7:44 pm
Marvin was great tonight before he got hurt. Can’t wait till we make him the focal part of our offense. LOL
TskOoOo
March 8th, 2009
7:55 pm
Can someone explain to me what being over the cap means? I understand the cap this year was around 56 million. Every team I think besides the Grizz are OVER the cap. We are towards the BOTTOM of the league in payroll. So why is it such a friggin HASSLE to make moves, since we’re “over the cap?” Let’s not forget we have 290 owners, who should be wealthy enough to pay for new players. So why do Dallas and NYK get anybody they want, then when we want to fire a 2 mill/yr coach, we cannot afford a new one? PLEASE explain this
TskOoOo
March 8th, 2009
7:56 pm
Can someone explain to me what being over the cap means? I understand the cap this year was around 56 million. Every team I think besides the Grizz are OVER the cap. We are towards the BOTTOM of the league in payroll. So why is it such a friggin HASSLE to make moves, since we’re “over the cap?” Let’s not forget we have 290 owners, who should be wealthy enough to pay for new players. So why do Dallas and NYK get anybody they want, then when we want to fire a 2 mill/yr coach, we cannot afford a new one? PLEASE explain this.
niremetal
March 8th, 2009
8:12 pm
Being over the cap means that you can’t make trades unless you trade away about as much salary as you get back, and means that you can’t sign players unless you sign them for the minimum salary or use your “mid-level exception. For more info, go here.
Rod is an idiot
March 8th, 2009
8:18 pm
I heard Marvin stole Rod’s lunch money, spanked him in front of everybody, stole his girlfriend and pulled his pants down too. No wonder Rod hates Marvin.
TskOoOo
March 8th, 2009
8:51 pm
You can’t make trades unless you trade away as much salary as you get back? Then how did the Camby trade work? DEN was way over the cap, so how do they trade Camby and get nothing back?
cheese
March 8th, 2009
9:10 pm
for those of you of dont like woodson, look at what the majority of the people are saying outside of atlanta. interesting comments.
http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/94471-hawks-have-coach-player-issues?eref=fromSI
Najeh Davenpoop
March 8th, 2009
9:38 pm
“You can’t make trades unless you trade away as much salary as you get back? Then how did the Camby trade work? DEN was way over the cap, so how do they trade Camby and get nothing back?”
You can make unbalanced trades if one team is under the cap. If that’s the case then the team under the cap can take on more salary than it gives up. I think when the Clippers made that trade they were under the cap. Of course, after trading for Zach Randolph and signing Baron Davis, that’s no longer true.
TskOoOo
March 8th, 2009
9:44 pm
**why exactly does Smoove wear that black elbow Iverson brace thing? maybe it has messed up his free throw form?**
Ken Strickland
March 8th, 2009
9:47 pm
It truely amazes me how people can say Woodson got us into the playoffs last yr. It was the play of PG MBibby, after being acquired in a midseason trade by former GM Billy Knight, that got us into the playoffs. WHAT IN THE HE!! DID WOODSON DO THAT MADE A DIFFERENCE AFTER BIBBY ARRIVED?
RLP
March 8th, 2009
10:10 pm
It is amazing to me how many bloggers get down on the Hawks when they lose a couple of games to teams because the Hawks overall record is better than the teams that beat them. Today, the Knicks and Charlotte have 18-15 records on their home courts. The Hawks on the road are 14-21. It really should not come as a surprise that they lost those two games. This is professional basketball. Only four teams in the East have losing records at home. Just because your team has an overall winning record should you expect your team to win that consistently on the road? Only three teams in the East have winning road records. Who are those teams? The ones at the top of the standings.
There are those who are tired of hearing about the Hawks level of maturity. They think that just because you have young players with talent playing they should win much more consistently than the Hawks do. It takes years for a team with as many young players as the Hawks have to learn to play on the road. (Unless of course you have a superstar like LeBron.) When the Hawks are playing with players who have been in the league 13 years, 12 years, 10 years, 5 years and 2 years as the Celtics starters have or 8 years, 10 years, 4 years, 9 years and 10 years as the Magic starters or 5 years, 12 years, 5 years, 4 years and 10 years as Cleveland’s starters then their road record will improve. With seven more road games to play the team has already improved their road record over last year. Given the team’s same composition next year the road is the place where they can improve the most next year over where they are this year without any other changes .
During this period of poor performance that all of us recognize they have had since the end of the long December home stand how many of the games been on the road? They have played 19 games and their record is 8 – 11.
With 19 games to go they are only 2 games away from meeting last year’s total victories. Remember all of the injuries where they have not been at full strength? Given their maturity level as a team this is a very positive year. If the ownership and management handles the personnel wisely we have a chance to have a playoff team for years to come. Even without having the kind of financial resources that allow teams to pick up a Joe Smith or a Mikki Moore or a Stephon Marbury or a Rafer Alston the Hawks have enough talent now that the organization should be able to be a contender for years to come given the proper coaching. But that is an entirely different subject.
doc
March 8th, 2009
10:38 pm
fred, nice comments you shared. redemption for all. integrity is important as well, players and bloggers alike. as sautee pointed out josh has done something right to have a percentage of close to 50% without being fed the ball close in. he usually has to make his own stuff in between jacks of bibby, jj and flip which when it is going in is fun; when not and it is only a continuation of that theme that drives us all crazy including josh and al maybe. we got a force underneath which was shown last night with double doubles by the man child’s al and josh; give them a chance by feeding the coming monsters.
funny, how all say josh isnt as good as he thinks he is but is a lightening rod if he doesnt deliver. doesnt make much sense does it? same as folks saying he isnt worth the money he makes but in the same breath he is the one that could and will make a huge difference in how the team finishes and goes in the playoffs. he is the third highest player on the hawks. folks cant have it both ways.
honestly, jj and bibby is my concern, making more money than most in the league and not delivering the bang for the buck. take and compare jj’s minutes to total point avg, shots per point scored, free throws as an indication of a fearless leader taking it to the hole and giving it up for the team, defensive stats such as steals and blocks and he isnt doing it. sorry, started saying it in december and folks didnt get it until he was dragging around like a teenager that had mono. was it physical in jj and a given that josh’s problem is his attitude not physical and why that implication by so many? it is more about all these guys getting back to the energy level they had at the beginning of the season, not just josh, if they want to go onto the second round and really make some noise. whole team needs an attitude adjustment not just josh.