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State monies to help struggling districts going to Gwinnett, Clayton and Paulding. Many small-town systems get nothing. Why?

9:53 am March 18, 2013, by Maureen Downey

As many of you often point out on the blog, state equalization grants are not going to the presumed targets, poor rural districts, but to the mighty Gwinnett County Schools

And you always wonder why.

The AJC looked at the grants that are supposed to help struggling districts with weak tax bases in a Sunday story by AJC reporter James Salzer. The story explains how the grants are awarded, detailing a formula that benefits districts with booming enrollments and eroding property values. In other words: Gwinnett.

But an expert suggests that the calculus of the equalization grants needs to look beyond the property wealth-to-student ratio to personal wealth in a county, which would send more money to struggling south Georgia districts that may have stagnant enrollments but also have persistent poverty and historic school under funding.

Here is an excerpt of the news story: (See list of where grants are going.)

By James Salzer

Gov. Nathan Deal won praise in January when he announced plans to plow an additional $40 million into struggling Georgia school districts that are having trouble raising enough money to educate their children.

What neither the governor nor applauding lawmakers knew at the time was that virtually the entire increase next year will flow to Gwinnett, Clayton and Paulding County schools. Many of the small-town systems that most Georgians would call poor are getting nothing.

That’s according to calculations the Georgia Department of Education recently made using a new equalization funding formula legislators approved last year. About two-thirds of districts get the money on top of their regular state allocation to help address the financial disparity between wealthy and poor systems.

Gwinnett County’s equalization take alone next year will rise from $43.2 million to $65.6 million. Meanwhile, dozens of small, rural systems in Georgia — and many of metro Atlanta’s biggest systems — will get no extra funding. It makes some superintendents wonder whether the formula was drawn to help certain districts and not others.

“I am not sure there is anything equal about it, ” said Cherokee County Superintendent Frank Petruzielo. “It seems to me that it is the most politically motivated component of education funding in Georgia.”

House Education Chairman Brooks Coleman, R-Duluth, who co-chaired an education funding commission that recommended the changes to the equalization law, said politics has nothing to do with it. Gwinnett, he said, is benefiting from the formula used to determine payouts because it has a giant, growing student enrollment at the same time property values have tanked.  “There was nothing done to specifically help Gwinnett, ” Coleman said. “It’s a function of the numbers.”

Using more up-to-date enrollment and financial data, the House slightly altered Deal’s original request, approving $474.4 million in equalization funding for the upcoming school year, up from $436.1 million this year. Excluding Gwinnett, Clayton and Paulding, the amount of equalization funding would actually drop, slightly, next year. About half of all equalization funds go to suburban or exurban metro Atlanta-area districts.

The equalization fund, set up in 1985, is supposed to provide greater equity in school funding for systems with lower property tax bases. It was often thought of as a way to help poor, rural districts that can raise little from property taxes. But the collapse of the real estate market in metro Atlanta changed the equation, and the largest grants in recent years have gone to districts that are neither rural nor comparatively poor.

The state’s formula for disbursing the money uses the number of students in the district, the value of property and the property tax rate. A property wealth-to-student ratio qualifies some suburban and urban districts to receive grants.

In the final hours of their 2012 session, state legislators passed a bill intended to slow the growth of the equalization fund and get more money to poor rural districts. The changes reduced the number of systems getting equalization — weeding out some of those deemed too “wealthy.” In some cases, rural districts got more. In others, they were left out completely.

Gwinnett has been getting an increased share of equalization money in recent years because it has the right combination of rapid enrollment growth and eroded tax base. Rick Cost, the school system’s chief financial officer, noted that in 2007, Gwinnett schools enrolled 9.1 percent of all students in Georgia. Its tax digest was 8.9 percent of the state’s total. Next year, he said, Gwinnett will enroll 9.9 percent of all students in the state, but its tax digest will amount to 8 percent of the state’s total.

In 2007, Gwinnett didn’t qualify for equalization funding. Since then, it has been ranked poorer and poorer by the state formula, and has collected an extra $186 million. That money goes to help offset the system’s loss in property tax money.  “Since fiscal 2008 … we have lost $143 million in annual local tax revenue … and we have 26,000 more students, ” he said.

The tax base in many systems has plummeted since the recession, but enrollment in those districts is not growing like Gwinnett’s. Enrollment in DeKalb, Cobb and the city of Atlanta systems, for instance, has remained about the same or fallen since the October 2007 count. Enrollment in much of rural Georgia has been stable or fallen as well.

Gwinnett is often considered an innovator in education. Even in tight times, it is making a digital push to invest $54 million in technology improvements that, within a few years, will make hardback textbooks obsolete, allow students 24 /7 access to their schoolwork and give teachers the ability to give tests and track student success — all via the Internet.

By contrast, some of the small, rural systems missing out on equalization have one teacher per subject in their high schools, few advanced courses or foreign language options, no financial reserves to fall back on and no hope of raising serious money from property taxes.

Quitman County’s district, with 345 students, has a much smaller enrollment than most Gwinnett elementary schools. Its superintendent, Allen Fort, worries about having to lay off one or two of his few teachers because of limited funds.

“But somehow we’re richer than Gwinnett County, ” said Fort, whose Southwest Georgia district doesn’t qualify for equalization funding. “Don’t call it equalization, because it’s not equal.” Fort said Quitman schools raise about $70,000 from a mill of property taxes. The system’s budget is $3 million. “One mill (of property taxes) in Gwinnett County could run my system for 10 years, ” he said. “I am not against Gwinnett getting money, I am just trying to figure out how we got none.”

David L. Sjoquist, a state tax and funding expert at Georgia State University’s Andrew Young School of Policy Studies, noted that officials have made efforts in the past to lessen the amount of equalization money going to districts like Gwinnett. Sjoquist said there have been proposals in the past to incorporate some measure of personal wealth into the equation, which would help places like Quitman County, where household income is about half of Gwinnett’s, and the poverty rate is twice Gwinnett’s. But so far the idea hasn’t gone anywhere.

Coleman, the Gwinnett lawmaker, said counties like Gwinnett and Clayton get the equalization money because they have “earned it” under a formula designed to help systems that need it the most. “Gwinnett is big, and it’s poor, ” he said. But Gwinnett also has a strong legislative delegation, and the school system has its own lobbyist at the Capitol.

Fort has a hard time believing Gwinnett’s political clout hasn’t played a role in developing and maintaining a system that benefits the local school system. “Clout, hell, they’ve got a sledgehammer, ” he said. “There are more senators and representatives in Gwinnett County than there are in South Georgia. In the end, we don’t matter.”

–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog

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80 comments Add your comment

Clutch Cargo

March 18th, 2013
10:21 am

Not getting their hands on a few crumbs tossed out by the state is not going to kill these south Georgia school districts.They have gotten by on little for years and years.It’s really nothing new.If anything,it has taught them to live within their means and run a tight(er) ship. Meanwhile, you can say with almost mathematical certainty that these extra funds handed to the “counties with clout” will be skimmed, stolen and misdirected by the educrats at the top of their counties food chains. It’s just the way it is.

Centrist

March 18th, 2013
10:29 am

Pretty much what Clutch just posted – but maybe having publicly pointed out this diversion will lead to some reform in the tilted calculus.

NorthFulton

March 18th, 2013
10:30 am

Gwinnett has lost its clout when it decided to file suit against the Charter Schools Commission and when Sonny Perdue left Gov Mansion. The new Gov and ruling Republican class at General Assembly can’t stand the Super and, if left to them, would not give Gwinnett a dime more than deserved.

Funny

March 18th, 2013
10:33 am

I would like to see resarch on how much the illegal immigrent population has done to make counties like Gwinnett so poor. Americans need to open their eyes to the true cost of educating these kids.

jarvis

March 18th, 2013
10:35 am

Values are going down, but Gwinnett is increasing in size. Are they getting more property tax payers, or are the majority of the new students living in rented property?

10:10 am

March 18th, 2013
10:36 am

Then again, school districts with rapidly expanding, increasingly diverse student populations face extraordinary capital expenses—new buildings plus the infrastructure to support them. Stable rural districts typically do not.

Nor does per student expenditure track exactly with outcomes. One only needs compare Chicago and Washington D.C … with the average Iowa or North Dakota school district.

sam123

March 18th, 2013
10:37 am

Gwinnett uses their money prudently plus they have a gift in knowing how to produce good test results.

Just A Teacher

March 18th, 2013
10:40 am

You would think that an equalization fund would vbe used to make things equal. Only in the Georgia legislature is the logic so askew that equalization grants are used to make things less equal. Ladies and gentlemen, I submit this as proof of how messed up our state government is.

d

March 18th, 2013
10:51 am

I always have to laugh at the “renters don’t pay property tax” argument. Sure, they may not pay them directly, but I don’t know of any landlord who is so benevolent that he or she won’t include those taxes in the lease payment. Even if there is someone, the tax is still being paid for the property by someone.

catlady

March 18th, 2013
10:51 am

jarvis, even renters pay property tax. Everyone alive who is not living under a bridge or in a monastery is paying property tax.

For years my small, poor (75% free lunch) rural system has “contributed” money to Gwinnett because our property was so over-valued by the banks, in collusion with real estate people.

Until a system taxes itself to the max, it should get NO money from others through “equalization.” I know a mil in my area isn’t worth much, but we should be willing to tax at 20 mils before anyone gives us additional money. Same for Gwinnett. What is their school millage rate?

irisheyes

March 18th, 2013
10:57 am

Gwinnett’s school millage rate is 19.25 (http://gwinnetttaxcommissioner.manatron.com/Tabs/Property/BillingInformation/MillageRateInformation.aspx)

I work in Gwinnett, and I’m embarrassed by this. We could easily get by on less money, but Alvin loves the fact that he can trot all over the country telling people how technologically advanced we are. Look, as a teacher, technology is nice, but a smaller class size and less people at the ISC giving me inane things to do would be better. GCPS could easily save $65 million by cutting back on the roll out of eClass (nice, but not necessary), getting rid of our benchmarks, cutting back on many of the test prep “services” they buy from companies, and consolidating positions at the ISC. (Cutting Alvin’s travel expenses wouldn’t hurt either.)

Just my opinion.

irisheyes

March 18th, 2013
10:59 am

BTW, I rent, and I’m pretty sure my property taxes are included in my rent. I can’t get my landlord to pay for anything until it’s ready to break down, so I doubt she’s paying property taxes for a house she doesn’t live in.

Concerned DeKalb Mom

March 18th, 2013
11:00 am

Raise the millage rate in Gwinnett–and other receiving school systems–to DeKalb’s rate, and then tell me they need money…and then we can talk about “equalization.”

Jovan Miles

March 18th, 2013
11:17 am

Its best for the entire state if we ensure that funds are directed where they are needed most rather than to the districts with the most political clout. Our state will NEVER be able to improve educational outcomes for all students until all students are valued equally and we apply equity when deciding how to distribute resources.

I don’t understand how anyone in this state could deliberately be against making sure the kids who need the most help, get it.

jarvis

March 18th, 2013
11:20 am

Thank you catlady for the basic explanation.

I realize portions of rent are to cover expense on the properties including the tax. I was referring to new tax basis…..like sub-divided land. If the population is increasing….in one way or another I would assume land is being purchased or divided (apartments). In either case, I’d assume the number of tax payers would be increasing.

catlady

March 18th, 2013
11:32 am

Sorry, Jarvis. I get tired of others saying that “illegals” don’t pay taxes. Ignoring that we all pay property tax and gas tax and sales tax, and many “illegals” pay income taxes as well. I know that is not what you are talking about.

I would think, as little building as is going on, that not too many extra $ of valuation is being added to tax digests. And when property is divided and sold, unless there is something being built, I would expect that the smaller parcels would still be worth about the same when added together. Surely, if any area is adding value, it would be Gwinnett.

DeKalb Inside Out

March 18th, 2013
11:34 am

2011 Millage Rates In Georgia – click here

Mountain Man

March 18th, 2013
11:51 am

“State monies to help struggling districts going to Gwinnett, Clayton and Paulding. Many small-town systems get nothing. Why?”

I presume you meant to say “poor-county” sysems instead of “small-town” (there aren’t that many town and city school systems and whether they are “small” was not the point). If you have a specific example of poor counties that get nothing, I would like to see where they stand on their millage rate. If they have a small millage rate (they don’t care enough about their kids’ education to tax themselves more) then why should the State be kicking in?

bu2

March 18th, 2013
12:01 pm

Gwinnett is one of the wealthiest counties in the state in per capita income per the article. They have a far lower % of low income students than any of the other counties receiving funds in the article. Now it doesn’t show property tax wealth around the state or sales tax. It would also be difficult to demonstrate the aggressiveness of the tax appraisers. It is clear that Gwinnet has been quicker than Fulton or Dekalb in reducing property values to reflect the recession.

A system that sends a bunch of money to one of the wealthiest counties in the state makes no sense, especially, when, as catlady says, they tax well below the maximum.

Just Sayin.....

March 18th, 2013
12:01 pm

So, the millage rate for Quitman is 13.75, and for Gwinnett its 19.25.

bu2

March 18th, 2013
12:07 pm

It also isn’t clear from the article if agriculture exemptions are taken into account.

But part of the formula clearly is that if you tax higher, you are more likely to send money in.

Karen Hill

March 18th, 2013
12:12 pm

Gwinnett is “poor?” I’m actually belly-laughing.

Patrick Edmondson

March 18th, 2013
12:14 pm

yeah, “just a function of the numbers”? Which were divinely ordained or set by the legislators? Gwinnett and Hall are the locus of Let’s Make-a–Deal and the GOP legislators catering to developers who BUY legislation to benefit their properties at the expense of other residents.

Ole Guy

March 18th, 2013
12:43 pm

Let us, for just a moment, skip past the politicos’ arguements and ask ourselves the basic question: Given the performances of these school districts, are they even worthy of anything remotely beyond the absolute minimum while “lesser” (politically-postured) districts get nothing? It would seem that…as in American business…abject failure is rewarded while the “others” are simply advised to…GO TO HELL.

Well done…

Gwinnett Parent

March 18th, 2013
12:45 pm

Renters actually pay more in property taxes. Owner occupied residences get a homestead exemption. However, once the property becomes a rental the exemption disappears. This raises the property taxes for the tenant occupied house and the landlord includes this in the rent. An apartment complex has a higher tax rate than a single family and is taxed on the structure’s value in addition to the land’s value. No homestead exemption there either. The problem comes when the tenants are receiving government funded rent vouchers on top of the free lunch,WIC, food stamps, as well as other entitlements. The truth is only a portion of the school’s funds come from property taxes.

Bernie

March 18th, 2013
12:45 pm

These TWO School Systems are mostly POOR and BLACK. The Republicans want to CHOKE OFF
the American Public School System as we KNOW IT, in Georgia. This is done to set the STAGE for A School Voucher Payment System which will be soon in coming to a school system near you. The State will write checks to the Parents to pay the Private Corporate School System to educate their children. A system that is untested & unproven.

m

March 18th, 2013
12:50 pm

Wow Bernie I LIKE how you CAPALIZE things….now, I am SMARTER, GEE THANKS!! dumarse.

high school teacher

March 18th, 2013
12:53 pm

Do banks pay property taxes on foreclosed houses? I’m just wondering. We could set the mils to 50, but if people don’t pay their property tax, then we still don’t have enough revenue to run the school system.

Question

March 18th, 2013
12:56 pm

Why can’t they figure out which counties need it the most help and then divide the money by the number of students?

high school teacher

March 18th, 2013
12:56 pm

Also consider the average property values of counties…

mountain man

March 18th, 2013
12:58 pm

Quitman just doesn’t want to tax itself as much as Gwinnett to fund its schools – but it wants the State to send it money.

mountain man

March 18th, 2013
12:59 pm

“Do banks pay property taxes on foreclosed houses?”

Yes, or else the county puts a tax lien on the property.

Bernie

March 18th, 2013
1:06 pm

m@12:50 pm – NAME CALLING is what Republicans typically DO, when a Indefensible Position becomes INDENFENSIBLE. I love you too! :)

Jack ®

March 18th, 2013
1:18 pm

There’s no big secret about the “why” of it: Small school districts don’t get headline treatment like the larger ones. And Gwinnett likely appears to have more problems than the smaller districts, so, a popular remedy is throw more money at the loudest problems.

Van Jones

March 18th, 2013
1:26 pm

Catlady, you are being disingenious with your “we all pay property tax” claim. Yes, renters (and more specifically, illegals) pay property tax included in their rent calculation but here, as Paul Harvey says, is the rest of the story.
One apt complex I know of in Sandy Springs (and there are numerous others) rents a 3br apt for $719/month. It’s near Chastain Park and the homes in that area are more like $500k-$1.5M. Assume, and this is a stretch, that each family has 3 kids. That’s about $6k-$15k in property taxes vs $700 and you really want to stick by the “we all pay property tax” statement?

Mountain Man

March 18th, 2013
1:41 pm

If I do the math right, Quitman STILL spends over $8600 per student, even with their low tax rate. What makes them so special that their citizens don’t need to pay as much property tax as I do?

alm

March 18th, 2013
2:04 pm

“Raise the millage rate in Gwinnett–and other receiving school systems–to DeKalb’s rate, and then tell me they need money…and then we can talk about “equalization.””

Amen Concerned DeKalb Mom

Clarence

March 18th, 2013
2:16 pm

They don’t have enough STUDENTS. Quitman has like 200 students. How much money do we need to send them to keep subsidizing the rural fantasy? Go down there. There is NOTHING. We should be encouraging them to move instead of pretending one day they’ll rebound in population.

Looking for the truth

March 18th, 2013
2:29 pm

To irisheyes: Amen!

10:10 am

March 18th, 2013
2:31 pm

@m: You misinterpret @Bernie.

He randomly capitalizes so as to enhance the goofy effect of his stated “opinions,” as well as to signal the comic relief he’s aiming to add to the day’s discussion. I was at first puzzled, too. But a look back on “positions” he’s previously taken on issues made all this readily apparent.

So chuckle along with the rest of us—or just scroll through to the next coherent commentator.

catlady

March 18th, 2013
2:54 pm

Folks, the money for “equalization” comes from other school systems!

catlady

March 18th, 2013
2:56 pm

Can you post what one mil is worth in each county? Newest data, perhaps from County Guide, please.

catlady

March 18th, 2013
2:59 pm

Are all schools allowed to go to 25 mils now, or just the original “special ones?”

Clarence

March 18th, 2013
3:10 pm

@catlady… you are only correct in that it comes from state taxpayers. The state never takes funds from school districts. Equalization is funded out of state general funds.

catlady

March 18th, 2013
3:17 pm

Clarence, I beg to differ with you. That is not how it has been explained to me. Every system sends in an amount of money from taxes. They either get that money back, or do not, and thus fund other systems. At one point my little poor system was losing several MILLIONS to the likes of Gwinnett.

catlady

March 18th, 2013
3:18 pm

Well, I assume we are both talking about the “Fair Share” program as being equalization money.

Mountain Man

March 18th, 2013
3:33 pm

“Can you post what one mil is worth in each county?”

Catlady, why would that matter? Yes Quitman only gets $70,000 per mill, but only has 345 students to educate.

If Quitman raised their millage rate to the same as Gwinnett, they would get over $1000 extra per student, making their spending per close to $10,000 per student.

Mountain Man

March 18th, 2013
3:35 pm

“Clarence, I beg to differ with you. That is not how it has been explained to me. Every system sends in an amount of money from taxes. They either get that money back, or do not, and thus fund other systems”

That is not the way I understood it, Catlady. ALL local property taxes stay at the local level. The State funding is out of sales taxes and income taxes and comes out of the general fund. They “equalize” from state general funds.

Clarence

March 18th, 2013
3:48 pm

@catlady – many many people intentionally distort their explanations of this. But I assure you, no funds are EVER taken from a local school district and “sent” to the state. As part of QBE (the primary funding formula, and NOT equalization), each system has five mills deducted from their earnings. This will vary significantly by district (richer systems have more subtracted), but funds are never TAKEN.

xxx

March 18th, 2013
3:55 pm

If renters think think they pay property taxes, perhaps counties should start filing liens against renters for unpaid tax liabilites. That tune would quickly change and they would realize the property OWNER pays the taxes. If every illegal skipped town, the OWNER would still be expected to pay the tax bill regardless of the amount he may have charged the renters. The country doesn’t come looking for the renter when the bill is late, Why? Because renters are not responsible for proporty taxes.

Mountain Man

March 18th, 2013
3:56 pm

Why, when I google Quitman county school district budget, does it say $5,725,000? In the article, the complaining super says their budget is only $3,000,000. If it really is $5,725,000 with 380 students, that is over $15,000 per student spendig. And according to my source, most of that ALREADY is from the state funding (59%).

bu2

March 18th, 2013
4:01 pm

@Clarence
However they do it its the same impact. If there was no equalization, Dekalb would have $100 million more $. Gwinnett, according to those numbers above would have $65 million less.

Bernie

March 18th, 2013
4:01 pm

10:10 am @ 2:31 pm – Love how all of the intelligent and smart ones know just what others are thinking all the time. Are you sure you are not a Genius too? Puzzling you is easy!

Pride and Joy

March 18th, 2013
4:07 pm

Thank you, Get Schooled, for this excellent, worthy topic. The rural poor are the poorest of the poor. I grew us rural poor. Thirty years after I left that rural, poor place, it is still rural and poor.
In rural poor areas there are no buses, no Marta, no train and no money to buy a car. People are trapped. At least in the city of ATL there is a way to get to a job and a job to have.
Where I grew up, there wasn’t even a movie theater, no fast food joints, just nothing but poor.
The formula that decides who gets the money is obviously flawed. Rural poor need to get to the top of the list of schools that get the funds.
The reason Gwinnett gets the money and places like ATL is because they have a large population of minority voters and minority organizations to scream about how unfair it is to be a minority. It’s all politics.
Catlady can tell you all about how difficult a rural poverty is to live in and so can I.
This so-called “formula” is not about fairness; it’s about racial propoganda and politics.

Mountain Man

March 18th, 2013
4:22 pm

“The rural poor are the poorest of the poor.”

Pride and Joy – you sound like those people who are always defending the “family farm” – arguing for using our tax money to support an inefficient farming operation just because of its charm (and the votes, of course) when a “factory” farm can produce the exact same corn at half the cost.

Poor is poor is poor – whether rural or urban.

Bernie

March 18th, 2013
4:31 pm

Pride and Joy @ 4:07 pm My God, such Vitriol Bigoted UnTruths spun in a such a way I almost bought into it. But Then I started to……. THINK!

This one is Still POOR! Mentally and Morally Banrupt to their very core with such words they truly believe as fact.

How Sad!…… Truly Very SAD!

You are neither PROUD or JOYFUL… more HATEFUL & EVIL would be a more accurate description
of You.

You are Certainly a product of Your Enviroment and a very SICK & ill informed ONE at that!

Ella

March 18th, 2013
4:52 pm

DeKalb pays 23.85 Property taxes for school and Gwinnett pays 19.25. DeKalb gives money and Gwinnett receives money. Looking at the property taxes for schools makes me sick. How can Gwinnett homeowners pay so little but get so much? Something is absolutely not right at all.

HS Math Teacher

March 18th, 2013
5:23 pm

I agree with Clutch Cargo. I have taught at a small, rural school in a remote area of Georgia for MANY years. We have taken cut after cut, and have downsized, reduced, cut-back, consolidated duties, etc. We’ve done everything except put treadmills in our rooms to improve our health and to generate electricity at the same time.

I would like to point the spear at our state Legislative & DOE leaders once again: As far as the neglect of the small, rural schools, expecially in the remote areas of Georgia, you can really tell that none of them give a damned about us, in that they ignore the fact that most, if not all, small schools do not have an accelerated track for the relatively new math (no way of seperating the ones who SHOULD be in an NON-COLLEGE PREP CURRICULUM), and ALL of our kids are having to slug through this japped-up curriculum. Complaints have made its way throught the rat maze to get to these people, but… they don’t give a damn. The Ph.D. egghead advisors from the big universities are telling them to LBJ-McNamara there way through to the bloody end. “Victory’s just around the corner”.

mountain man

March 18th, 2013
5:23 pm

“DeKalb pays 23.85 Property taxes for school and Gwinnett pays 19.25. DeKalb gives money and Gwinnett receives money.”

And Quitman pays 13.75! But (As far as I know) Dekalb does NOT give ANY of its money it keeps ALL of its local property tax.

Pride and Joy

March 18th, 2013
5:34 pm

Bernie and Mountain Man,
Poor ATL kids have opportunies that rural poor have never had.
There are also a lot of free recreational activities available to urban poor such as free swim times at city pools and they are located at places convenient to those poor people.
The rural poor have no such opportunites. Unless you have lived as a child in a rural, poor area, you cannot possibly make the claims you do.
In my hometown the public library was ten miles away and we had no buses, no Marta, no nothing. The only books available to me where at my poor school. If I couldn’t get it there I couldn’t get it — period.
You really need an education about the rural poor and urban poor.
Big cities get the big monies because they have big numbers of minorites and groups like the NAACP to fight for their interests.
There is no group that advocates for the rural poor, particularly the masses of rura, white poor. As evidence, read Catlady’s posts and drive up to Appalachia and see what real poverty looks like.

Pride and Joy

March 18th, 2013
6:02 pm

Things urban poor have but rural poor doest not:
The first Tuesday of the month many museums and attractions have free entrance fees including the Childrens’ museum and a bus ride or a short walk to get there.
In my hometown, we didn’t have a museum of any kind and no attractions of any kind and no buses or public transportation.
In urban Atlanta there are many free public pools with free swim hours daily.
In my home town, there were no public swimming pools.
In urban Atlanta, there are jobs programs for the poor. There is a GA Dept of Labor which helps people create resumes and helps them get jobs.
In my hometown there is no Department of Labor and no jobs to have. There were no fast food joints, no movie theaters, no malls, no nothing. There were zero job opportunites for older kids and very few for adults.
There was only one free recreational activity — football, and of course, most of the boys played it or basketball.
There were and still are no sports for girls in any shape or form. The best we could do was be a cheerleader at our own expense. We weren’t even allowed on the school bus to get to the games. Players, of course, were provided free rides to games as well as a healthy steak dinner beforehand and everything — free for football only.
Our churches were and still are, tiny. Once a year a deacon would drive to ATL and take we who could afford it to Six Flags. That was my big Summer vacation.
In urban Atlanta the poor kids can get a Marta ride to Six Flags and get a paying job there and afterward, ride the rides for free.
At Lakeside High School they have a swim team and a diving team and a pool for the school.
In my hometown, there was not a single public pool anywhere, especially not in the school.
It was not a family farm community as MM suggests, just a poor, rural small town and no advocates or lobbyists to fight for equality.

Truth in Moderation

March 18th, 2013
6:06 pm

@Catlady
“At one point my little poor system was losing several MILLIONS to the likes of Gwinnett.”
Well, at least they managed to find enough money to pay your TOP salary, even by Gwinnett standards. You did brag about it awhile back. I am certainly not implying that you aren’t worth every penny…..

Truth in Moderation

March 18th, 2013
6:20 pm

“It was not a family farm community as MM suggests, just a poor, rural small town and no advocates or lobbyists to fight for equality.”

Well, they could pull up roots and move to a nice urban area like DETROIT. There’s plenty of CHEAP housing there.

Or, they could use some good old fashioned ingenuity and CREATE a tourist attraction. That’s what Mr. Calloway did for Pine Mountain, Georgia. He owned many acres of undeveloped property. One day he noticed a car, with out -of- town license plates, pulled over and the driver was out of the car, just taking in the beautiful view of nature on the edge of his property. Calloway got the idea that many big city folks would like a beautiful nature preserve to visit and recharge their batteries. That was the beginning of Calloway Gardens. His good idea and hard work transformed raw property into a major Georgia tourist attraction. THIS IS THE KIND OF HELP THE SMALL TOWNS NEED. Not just another government handout.

bu2

March 18th, 2013
6:31 pm

To demonstrate the significance of those figures, if you don’t consider homestead and other exemptions (since I don’t have those figures and don’t know if the AJC data does), Gwinnett would be 23.2 instead of 19.25 to generate an extra $65 million.

For Dekalb it could be lowered from 23.985 to 18.1 if they didn’t have to give up $100 million in equalization. (From the county website-Dekalb tax basis 19.286 billion less Decatur 952 million less Atlanta in Dekalb 1.082 billion-Atlanta figure not on website-that one just my rough guesstimate=17.252 billion for DCSS). It takes 5.8 on that tax basis to generate $100 million.

mountain man

March 18th, 2013
6:40 pm

“For Dekalb it could be lowered from 23.985 to 18.1 if they didn’t have to give up $100 million in equalization.”

y’all guys are confusing me. To whom is Dekalb sending $100 million? Can you please document that.

Bernie

March 18th, 2013
7:26 pm

Pride and Joy @ 5:34 pm – To My ill informed friend here. POOR is POOR! In this nation it means to live without the the basics most average citizens expect, routinely. No matter the location of that Poor child be it Altanta, Appalachia WV, Miami, Oklahoma or the slums of Detroit. The common factor all the things these kids share, is a lack of available community and governmental services be it a quality education, recreational services and access to basic healthcare services. They are Lost ones of our society. The ones who have no advocate at City Hall or the State House. They are all treated the same. Treated with absolute INDIFFERENCE, with our Blessings as a group. Blaming one over the other is the fight we no can afford to have. it only breeds mistrust, hateful feelings and Its a Losing War, where both sides always lose. Your accusation maybe borne out of frustration and perception concerning this issue. However, I am here to inform you, that you are wrong on both counts! The Kids of the inner city are just as poor as those of rural America. The difference is that the inner city POOR problems are far much easier to hide and keep out of the light of examination, among the many who are not suffering along in their plight.

That my friend ,is the ONLY Difference in that shared experience. its no longer a Black or White experience as it once was. It is now more an American experience. One where many of US even HERE, are just one or two missed pay checks or a serious illness and/or injury away.

Gerald

March 18th, 2013
7:52 pm

Pride and Joy:

I grew up in a rural area – though I wasn’t exactly poor – and much of what you are saying is correct. However, allow me to point out that even though we were rural – and a lot of us were poor – we didn’t have to lock our doors at night. And even though illegitimacy and teen pregnancy were problems, there were a lot more extended families to help out with child rearing … grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins etc. as well as to take care of the elderly. Growing up poor in a rural area has its challenges, but the crime, violence, drugs, prostitution and chaotic out of control environments even in places where there should be discipline and order (see schools, public) that the urban poor goes through just does something to the mind. Read the book “There Are No Children Here: The Story of Two Boys Growing Up in The Other America” by Alex Kotlowitz to see just a little of what I am talking about. Why simply being in an environment like that isn’t classified as child abuse I will never know. Yes, I live in the city now, but I am not poor. If I was poor, me and my kids would be on the next Greyhound to the country where being poor doesn’t mean having gang members and pimps hanging like vultures over your children. Yeah, 10 miles to the nearest library but that just means a lot of room for kids to run outside, play, go fishing, have gardens and pets etc. Contrast that to the many playgrounds in urban areas that no one sets foot on because the parents are terrified of the drug dealers and other criminals that control the territory. So be grateful for your rural poor background … it could have been a lot worse.

Gerald

March 18th, 2013
8:00 pm

If we could get broadband access and online courses to these schools, that would help solve some of these problems and address some of the gaps. But ultimately, the idea that a kid in Quitman is going to have the same educational opportunity as a kid in Gwinnett or Hall is ridiculous. No matter how much you spend per child, people living in urban areas are going to have access to more resources. You aren’t going to compensate for that even in your wildest socialist social engineering fantasies.

Here is the deal: living in an urban or suburban area has its advantages for the top 5% of the population that will go on to attend a selective university. But for the other 95% that will just wind up going to a regular state school or not attend college at all, there is no real advantage to jumping into the thick of the rat race just to put your kid into a high achieving public school. The traffic, the cliques, the pollution, the sky high cost of living, the stress on kids and marriages from the long hours that you have to put in to maintain that lifestype … if your kid is just going to wind up going to Georgia Southern or West Georgia instead of Georgia Tech or Vanderbilt anyway, it isn’t worth the trouble. You’re actually much better off living in a rural area or small town where it is much less stressful.

DrJS

March 18th, 2013
8:29 pm

The question I have is how does this equalization formula address differences in “Quality Basic Education” (QBE) which is what the equalization grants are supposedly all about. So the big question I have is, what are the criteria for stating that students have obtained some level of basic education? How does the equalization grants allow students to meet the basic criteria statewide?

From what I read, the formula is based upon the tax revenue per pupil independent of any educational outcomes. How does that help determine basic education outcomes? How does it equate to equalizing the educational opportunities across the state (the original intent of the equalization program)?

Basically, I come away with more questions than answers and the impressions I observe from the AJC articles leave me less than confident that equalization program is meeting its objectives.

Ned

March 18th, 2013
9:54 pm

Mt. Man–just because DeKalb (and Fulton and Cobb) aren’t losing PROPERTY tax revenue doesn’t mean they are not losing other tax revenue. As a DeKalb resident I would prefer ALL taxes collected in DeKalb stay in DeKalb, with none going to my “rural” neighbors 4 miles away. BTW Pride & Joy, I really don’t see how you can reason that counties with minorities are the winners here, with these three net loser counties having some of the highest minority population percentages in the state.

And didn’t “rural” Gwinnett win an award for “urban” school systems just last year?

LarryMajor

March 19th, 2013
7:27 am

DrJS, The equalization formula is purely financial. Outcomes don’t enter into it because it has a different purpose. Also, “relative wealth” refers strictly to the school system, not the income level of its citizens. Local school system revenue is based on property tax, not income tax, and a local system will receive a set amount of revenue from any given property regardless of its owner’s income level.

Despite Fort’s unwarranted complaining, Quitman’s tax base currently puts it in a far superior position to raise revenue than Gwinnett (or most other school systems, for that matter). The reason Quitman operates on one of the lowest millage rates in the state is that it generates the same per-student revenue as other systems in the 20 mill range. It is this inequity in the ability to raise revenue that equalization was designed to address.

The only reason “rural” enters into this is that, historically, rural school systems raised less per mill than other school systems. What changed in the past few years are real estate values; the intent and methodology of equalization funding is the same as it has always been.

Lastly, contrary to some comments here, no local tax revenue is used, either directly or indirectly, to fund equalization. It is a state budget item and is funded by standard state revenue streams. That’s why the Governor has the authority to set the amount.

Pride and Joy

March 19th, 2013
8:12 am

Ned, YOu’ve misunderstood. Gwinnett is URBAN! I advocate NOT GIVING money to Gwinnett and the likes.
Rural means rural. Populations LESS than 20k; that’s what I mean by rural poor.
Big cities like Gwinnett and ATL have it made compared to small, rural poor cities taht exist all over the South.
Big areas like Gwinnett and ATl and Detroit all have minority populations and big minority lobbyists like the NAACP. There is NO group or lobbyist helping real rural poor white kids.
And psssst…MM, hey, my hometown did not even have a bus station. No Greyhound bus to take me to that relative mecca that is Detroit where MY taxes were taken to preserve Detroit jobs in car manufacturing plants through the bailouts.
Gwinnett also has the Latino lobbyists who are now courted by the Republican party.
Who cares about the rural poor white kids?
No one in the State or federal government.
Their skin is simply not dark enough.

Pride and Joy

March 19th, 2013
8:17 am

Spoken like a true ignoramus “You’re actually much better off living in a rural area or small town where it is much less stressful.”
You’ve never been a poor white kid in a small Southern poor town.
Stress?
Plenty.
There was no section 8 housing. The only housing my family could afford was a cinder block one room home with no kitchen cabinets and no air-conditioning. Food was kept on boxes on the floor.
We didnt’ accept welfare and didn’t accept food stamps and we sure didn’t get a free lunch.
We packed our own and put up with the STRESS of which there was plenty.
Today’s minorities of blacks and Latinos have it made compared to how we lived.

Clarence

March 19th, 2013
8:41 am

@bu2 – DeKalb doesn’t give up anything for equalization – it is the primary funding formula that decides how the local five mill deduction is calculated. There are two formulas here. One, QBE, is a primary funding formula for all systems (that includes a deduction for the equivalent of five mills). You can argue the fairness of how the local five mill share impacts different systems differently, but that money is never TAKEN or GIVEN to anyone. The second, Equalization, is a formula designed to help systems with a low tax digest per FTE. Income doesn’t factor into anything because tax digest is the only way locals can earn money for schools. The per FTE part is why some rural systems don’t fair well under the current system, but you could just as easily argue that they don’t need the funds – if they only have enough students for one classroom per grade, why do they need more money?

bu2

March 19th, 2013
9:15 am

Counties like Gwinnett can support 19 better than a Quitman can support a 12 because of the income levels of the county and because its urban, not farm land. Gwinnett is “given” extra money. The formula also takes into account the level of taxes, so having lower taxes helps you get more state money, which makes no sense.

Larger districts also can generate vastly more in their SPLOST. So they do have sales tax resources in addition to property tax.

The idea on the small systems is the economies of scale that a large district has. Each needs a superintendent. Gwinnett’s isn’t paid 1000 times what the smallest county superintendent gets. There are lots of similar things that cost larger districts less per student.

zoe

March 19th, 2013
9:18 am

Considering that the state has taken tens of millions from the Clayton County school system by forgiving Delta for the gas tax monies it owed (love how the state forgave that, but it wasn’t monies owed to the state, they were owed to Clayton County) AND the state wants to stop Clayton from assessing Ad Valorum on businesses in the Clayton County area of the airport, I’d say the Clayton is well deserved of an equalization grant. Most of the airport is in Clayton County, but they do not benefit from much of it, except to house people arrested at the airport. Maybe if they were allowed the same benefits as APS, they wouldn’t need an equalization grant.

Pride and Joy

March 19th, 2013
9:51 am

Since we are content to split hairs:
Property owners pay property taxes.
Property owners get the money to pay property taxes by charging enough rent to cover ALL EXPENSES AND make a profit.
Sometimes property owners don’t make a profit because dirt-bags skip out on their rent or damage the property adn sometimes a plant closing or a bad economy causes people to be unable to pay their rent and then the property still has to pay the taxes or a lien is placed against the property by the county, which means, the property owner has to pay the taxes when the property is sold or they have to forfeit the property.
There are many renters who do not pay property taxes and those renters live in section 8 housing or public housing. In those cases, I, the honest, law-abiding citizen is paying for the indigent’s rent AND taxes while the section 8 property owner makes a profit.
So if you want to quibble about who is getting ripped off here…it’s me and people like me.

Truth in Moderation

March 19th, 2013
1:28 pm

@Pride and Joy
“The rural poor have no such opportunites. Unless you have lived as a child in a rural, poor area, you cannot possibly make the claims you do.
In my hometown the public library was ten miles away and we had no buses, no Marta, no nothing. The only books available to me where at my poor school. If I couldn’t get it there I couldn’t get it — period.
You really need an education about the rural poor and urban poor.”

Watch the following TED TALK. A Researcher from India presents research ON THIS VERY TOPIC! His findings may surprise you. The solution IS ACHIEVABLE. Perhaps YOU could be a part of the solution and provide the technology for your former community, yes?
http://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_the_child_driven_education.html

Gerald

March 19th, 2013
1:30 pm

@Pride and Joy:

Looks like you are neither prideful or joyful, but simply a bitter person with an axe to grind against black people and Hispanics. Well go vent at your Tea Party rally where you will find someone who cares. By the way, if you think that blacks run Gwinnett instead of white Republicans, you are sorely delusional in addition to being a race obsessed bitter crank. And it isn’t the NAACP that is screwing these rural counties over, it is the GOP who runs this state. But you won’t take it up with them because you are too busy being angry with blacks.

By the way, more whites receive public assistance than blacks. Always have. And the most expensive government programs, Social Security and Medicare, the ones that are bankrupting this country while Section 8 and foot stamps are pennies by comparison, are received disproportionately by whites.

And so you grew up poor. So what. You still had plenty of opportunities to make the best of it. If you didn’t, that isn’t the NAACP’s fault. It is your own. Most successful blacks and other minorities in this country never received a dime from a civil rights organization. Oh yes, and most blacks and other minorities in this country are not on public assistance and do not work government jobs. So you are barking up the wrong tree. So take your whine and cheese to your David Duke rally where somebody will give you a shoulder to cry on.

Pride and Joy

March 20th, 2013
6:38 pm

Gerald, I’m a Democrat and voted for Obama twice. The only tea party I had was for my dollies when I was a girl.
Rural poor is the poorest of all and rural whites have no one to advocate for them as black, urban, city dwellers do.
Period.