Can we simultaneously fix and flee public schools?
Can we simultaneously fix and flee public schools?
I wondered about that question after meetings with Georgia’s last Democratic governor, Roy Barnes, and House Majority Whip Edward Lindsey, R-Atlanta. The men sat down with the AJC recently to discuss education issues in the state.
In many areas, the two leaders — both noted for their interest in education — see eye to eye.
“Just because a child is born in Schley County and not Forsyth County, you cannot constitutionally justify that child is going to receive an inferior education just because of an accident of birth,” said Barnes.
Speaking to AJC reporters a week later, Lindsey said much the same thing. “The fact of where a child is born should not determine whether they are going to have a future or not. Wherever a child is born, we have to concentrate on how to get them the education they need.”
Where the two leaders disagree is over the fundamental definition of public education: Is schooling a collective concern funded and governed by the community, or a private decision best left to parents even when some public dollars may be involved?
“What made us different as a people is that we did not ration education,” said Barnes. “We decided every child will receive an adequate education, and it became the key to social mobility. When you weaken the public school system, you destroy the fabric that holds us together.”
But the public school system isn’t working for many children, said Lindsey, citing the overall state high school graduation of 69.9 percent. “If my children brought home success records like this from school, it would be time for serious changes. It should be same for the Georgia’s education system.
“One thing I have learned in nine years is that no matter how dysfunctional a government program is or how bad a problem is, there is always going to be somebody who has a vested interest in the status quo,” said Lindsey.
The tensions between these views have fueled the ongoing debates in the General Assembly over whether Georgia ought to be increasing its investment in the traditional public education system or embracing alternatives, including independent charter schools, vouchers and privatization.
In recent years, the latter position has prevailed in the Legislature, which has focused on devising exit plans out of the school down the street.
The General Assembly has approved vouchers for special needs students to apply at private schools. It fought all the way to the state Supreme Court for the power to approve and fund charter schools over the objections of local school boards. When it lost in court, the Legislature won voter approval to change the constitution through a November referendum.
Legislators enacted a scholarship tax credit program — now under fire for blatant abuses — that subsidizes private-school tuition. Thus far, the program has diverted $170 million from the state treasury.
Lawmakers are now considering a constitutional amendment — spurred by parents in Dunwoody — that would allow newly formed cities to break with their county systems and create their own neighborhood schools.
In an argument that could eventually lead to vouchers, Republicans maintain that the “money should follow the students because it’s their money.”
But few households pay enough in property taxes to cover the $8,000 a year it costs, on average, to educate a student in Georgia. So, do the education dollars paid by all taxpayers belong to the students or to the community?
While Lindsey avoids the pejorative”government schools” rhetoric of some of his GOP colleagues, he said, “Parents should be able to adapt education dollars to fit with their child’s needs.”
At the same time, he cautioned that Georgia can’t write off public schools, which still serve 93 percent of the state’s children.
“I am a great believer in public education,” Lindsey said. “I am a great believer that APS needs to succeed. These are the kids who are most in need of public education. That’s their shot. For the most part, those parents don’t have the choice of Westminster or Paideia.”
But Barnes contends that the Legislature’s deep cuts to public education — cuts that have forced all districts to raise class sizes and 65 percent of them to abbreviate their school years to less than 180 days — are sabotaging the schools and feeding public discontent.
“Instead of improving public education,” said Barnes, “they just decided to tank it.”
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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159 comments Add your comment
William
March 15th, 2013
9:44 am
Our factory-model schools are staffed, overwhelmingly, with solid people doing what schools have always done. Sure, we have a handful of people who don’t need to be teaching our kids. Yes, we have some schools that do not deal with dangerous and disruptive kids, but those are the exceptions we should deal with. The overwhelming challenge we must address is schools still looking a lot like they did 75 years ago. The world has changed. The characteristics that provide opportunities for success in today’s global workforce are innovation and creativity. Our schools increasingly cling to a knowledge-based, top-down testing and basic proficiency model. Knowledge is doubling every 5 months and it is free. Google, Wikipedia and YouTube have made knowledge universally available and free.
As a nation, our educational efforts focus almost exclusively on fighting about what knowledge to teach and how to test it. How about some discourse examining how schools should be structured so that young people learn how to make something, build something, create something? To Dream! Where are the products, the services, the social ideas that will lead our nation forward? While I don’t have the answer, I don know they will not be found in skill/drill/memorize the curriculum of the day approach.
We love to rewrite history and harken back to a day when…”schools were good…” Students in this country have never performed anywhere near the top on measures of academic performance. 1964 was the first year we measured science and mathematics performance internationally, and the USA ranked 1second from the bottom. (as an aside, we now are in the 60-70th percentile). What we have led the world in for 150 years is “building the better mousetrap.” Americans have been the planet’s thinkers, risk takers, builders. As a father, I fear that in our race to compare ourselves to the rest of the world, we are losing what has made us so special. I want to encourage schools and teachers to unshackle the dreamer in each of our children, and stop the madness.
Let’s also celebrate the fact that our nation educates ALL students, a rare exception in the world.
Should schools improve? You bet. The question is how?
Teacher, Too
March 15th, 2013
9:48 am
I keep reading about throwing “more money” at education. Funding for education has been decreased by the federal, state, and local goverments for the past 10 years. Education in Georgia has been UNDERFUNDED for years— so where is all “more money” that I keep hearing about? If we had just enough money, we would have no furloughs and smaller class sizes– instead on 32-35 kids in a class and three, four, five plus furlough days.
southern opinion
March 15th, 2013
9:50 am
Money IS NOT the answer. This is supposed to be a FREE public education. In actuality a lot of money is already being pumped into the state’s school systems to bolster achievement, but the answer is that something must be attached to a free public education to make it valuable. Hardly anything “free” is valued. Anything “free” that requires little to no sacrifices is of little value.
bu2
March 15th, 2013
9:59 am
Best thing Georgia has done is the special needs scholarships. Public schools don’t do special needs well and many do it terribly. They also do it at a price far more expensive than the special needs scholarship. Atlanta has a wealth of special needs schools which are a great resource to the community. I’ve known of several people who moved to Atlanta because of those schools.
Worst thing they are trying to do is split up school districts. The inequality in resources will cause far more problems than it will solve.
Freedom Works
March 15th, 2013
10:00 am
The government run schools will never serve any interests other than those of government (and their friends). They cannot be “fixed” as they are fundamentally flawed. They are funded through force in a socialist mechanism that undermines the very parental responsibility that everyone says is essential to educational success. If parents are allowed, either through a denial of choice or through the socialization of costs, to abdicate full and complete responsibility for their children’s education, there will be no fundamental change.
The ideal way to save education in general is absolutely for every parent to flee the government system which will bring about its collapse (and the sooner the better). Following its collapse and a general desire to restore quality, if the free market is allowed to actually work, the abundance of private, cooperative, charity, business-supported, and a who knows what options will fully address the needs of parents who will once again be forced to take responsibility for their children’s education.
Government has caused this situation. The current system was not put in place to deliver quality education. It was put in place as an indoctrination vehicle for government to undermine the authority of parents and to undermine the cultural influences of Catholics and others immigrating from europe at the turn of the 20th century. It was also put in place as a vehicle to undermine the individual and entrepreneurial spirit and energies that were threatening the burgeoning corporate-capitalist machine that required mindless workers to fill its factories.
John Taylor Gatto details this sordid history in graphic details in his wonderful books on the subject. Every parent should be required to read his work as most government school supporting parents actually think that this system was put in place to insure a quality education for everyone. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Get out and don’t look back. If the system collapses, the better off america will be. Work for its collapse as the greatest beneficiaries will be those parents without the means to leave the system today.
Truth in Moderation
March 15th, 2013
10:01 am
Our current “public” schools are not. The corruption as become so great that the only hope is to overturn the compulsory education law, sell off the assets, and start over with private and home schools. THERE IS NO CURE FOR OUR CURRENT SCHOOLS. The NWO owns them. CUT OFF THEIR FUNDING! CLOSE THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS NOW!
Mountain Man
March 15th, 2013
10:21 am
“I keep reading about throwing “more money” at education. Funding for education has been decreased by the federal, state, and local goverments for the past 10 years. Education in Georgia has been UNDERFUNDED for years— so where is all “more money” that I keep hearing about? If we had just enough money, we would have no furloughs and smaller class sizes– instead on 32-35 kids in a class and three, four, five plus furlough days.”
I think they are saying that the answer to solving our problems is not just to throw money at it. I have said many times that we spend four times what we spent in 1960 per student (adjusted for inflation). That is easily verified. Yes, education funding may have gone down in the last 10 years – but it had increased dramatically up until then. And yes, we should have no furloughs and smaller class sizes – but those can be easily accomplished by simply moving the money we already have out of central office and back to the teachers. We don’t need those new expensive education programs that don’t increase performance because the problem is attendance and discipline, not curriculum. We don’t need layer after layer of administrators who STILL do absolutely nothing to address attendance, discipline, or social promotion. And we need to decide how certain students deserve $30,000 per year of spending and whether it is worth it and is it consistent with the State Constitution gaurantee of an “adequate” education? (SPED students)
“so where is all “more money” that I keep hearing about”
Go ask your administrators – they have it.
Michael Moore
March 15th, 2013
10:23 am
Neither politician cites one piece of research or evidence supporting any position whatsoever in their interview. Their sole credential is that they went to school which makes them eminent experts.
living in an outdated ed system
March 15th, 2013
10:24 am
I disagree with the Governor on one point. You don’t keep investing in a broken system. More funding isn’t the answer. First, structurally reform the system, make it 21st century compliant, and then invest more dollars. For years, we have seen public education follow the same path that every monopoly in any other industry has faced: dysfunction, wasteful spending, and woeful performance, under any performance measure.We need to stop blaming funding cuts for the ills the plague our public schools. Do I need to again mention that research shows no correlation between funding and academic achievement?
You can fix and flee. That will be what happens when we see some of these alternative schooling options start to show favorable results. And that’s how disruptive innovation works.
Rick L in ATL
March 15th, 2013
10:25 am
Until gutless, pandering public-school educrats are willing to do the two things necessary to fix the broken public schools–the only two things that’ll work, I’m on the money-follows-child train, big-time. Choo choo!
Those two things, by the way, are: (1) Empower teachers to enforce strict classroom discipline, with uncooperative and unprepared students summarily and remorselessly ejected (there should be cameras in every classroom, to back the teacher’s account or refute it), and (2) rigorously and continuously evaluate teachers using all available tools including extensive videotaping, with the goal of firing the bottom 10% each year while appropriately rewarding the best. (The evaluators would include parent volunteers, the school principal and outside experts selected by parent boards but paid for with district funds).
Do just these two things and you’ll fix the real problem. (Of course, you’ll create a new problem–what to do with thousands of unruly kids and their utterly worthless parents, but you know what? Let them figure it out. Let them own that problem).
Until we recognize that a small (albeit lethal) percentage of unwilling students and incompetent teachers is the true cancer here, and actually resolve to excise those two tumors, the traditional public school model –especially in urban areas–will continue its death spiral.
mathmom
March 15th, 2013
10:32 am
Truth in Moderation – I have been wondering for several years now why the government (state and federal) would be working so tirelessly to destroy our nation through the destruction of public education and the tragic perpetuation of an underclass (actually, an expansion of the underclass) by ensuring that too many of our students are, for the most part, growing up to be incapable of independent thought. It did not occur to me that the NWO advocates could be that powerful already.
Teacher, Too
March 15th, 2013
10:45 am
I agree with many posters today– I am appalled at the poor grammar of many teachers, not just English teachers. Shouldn’t someone who graduated from college be able to speak and write standard English?
A “free” education is not valued, although it used to be. The quality of the work of our current students has declined, because every student (and parent) feels he/she is entitled to an “A”, even if the work is sloppy, shoddy, and poorly executed. Over 23 years of teaching, I have seen the work ethic of the students decline because of entitlement and the importance of protecting a child’s inflated self-esteem. When students earn a grade, really earn a grade, then the child has something to be proud of. When they are given a grade, students know they have not earned it and learn that they can do less and still get that undeserved “A”. That’s where we are in education. And, in larger part, that’s where our society is.
Today is the end of the grading quarter for my district. This week, I received no less than ten emails from parents with excuses– and could little Johnny please be given extra credit because of his ADD, ADHD, and any other number of “reasons” as to why he should be allowed to do extra work. The last week of the quarter, and I am getting these emails. Where was the concern five, six, seven weeks ago? The grade didn’t happen overnight. Progress reports were sent and grades were posted in a timely manner online.
We hear about accountability on the teachers’ part. I hold no opposition to being held accountable when students and parents are as well.
There has to be improvement on all three sides of the triangle: the parents, the teachers, and the students. For too long, the focus has been on the teachers– yet we have not been included in discussions. Teachers need to speak and write with standard English. They need to be professional in their behavior and work ethic. They need to have substance in their teaching– not just the pretty fluffy stuff.
The elephant in the room is always ignored: discipline. Students need to learn discipline in their work ethic and behavior. They need to produce quality work – and not get an “A” because they have always gotten an “A”, but get the “A” because they have truly earned it– and teachers need to quit handing out “A” like cookies!
Finally, parents need to stop making excuses for their children. Let them learn and understand failure. We expend more time and energy in trying to prevent failure. Children need to experience failure– they have to learn from it.
When all three parts of the equation are equally in place, then education will work.
bigbill
March 15th, 2013
10:58 am
There are some wonderful posts in this thread, especially the “Democracy” post. When Republican leaders say they vigorously support public schools but then proceed to “starve” them by dramatically decreasing public school state funding, you have to wonder. Couple that with the Republican policy of diverting taxpayer funds away from public schools and into the hands of the charter school industry, their strategy becomes clearer, and true to form, as Republicans want to privatize for profit every government function they can lay their hands on from defense spending (Blackwater) to prisons (the private prison industrial complex) to public schools (charter schools and taxpayer funding for private schools).
This discussion about which road to take ought to include a focus on who profits from the charter school – school choice approach. One terrific place to look at which companies and law firms in Georgia are making fortunes on the Georgia charter school movement is the program entitled: “10th Annual Georgia Charter School Conference – Charting the Path to Success-October 4-5, 2012.” Here is the link:
http://www.georgiacharterconference.org/wp-content/uploads/Program-Final.pdf
If you read this program with an eye to observing which companies and which law firms are offering their services (no doubt for handsome fees) to set up and maintain charter schools in Georgia, you will see I believe that a veritable army of profiteers has lined up to fill their coffers with the hundreds of millions of Georgia taxpayer funds being funneled their way thanks to the efforts of legislators like Ed Lindsey. This isn’t about choosing a better path. This is about putting in place a system to enrich all the players in the charter school industry. Two examples from the Georgia Charter Schools Annual Conference Program: (1) Dougherty and Company, Minneapolis, MN “We are pioneers in financing the Charter School segment of the educational system providing cost effective financing options designed to help meet the unique educational needs of clients;” and (2) McKenna, Long and Aldridge law firm, “We are proud to have participated in the first charter school bond financing in Georgia.” You really have to read what these companies and law firms say they are selling, not to mention looking at the list of program presentations where these companies and the law firms spell out how to do it, how to set up one charter school after the other with taxpayer funds. This is what “school choice” is really about. Let’s keep and strengthen our traditional public schools. That’s the path we should choose.
Mary Elizabeth
March 15th, 2013
10:59 am
There are powerful, stealthy forces at work throughout our nation who have an ideological agenda to dismantle government programs of all kinds, not just public schools, for the private market. Just look at what is happening with MARTA and with the U.S. Post Office, in this regard. Public education is simply one more avenue for inserting the expansion of the private market – and private profit – into public education by these exreme ideologues. They do not know what they are reeking upon our state and nation.
I have not had a child in public schools in years. I do not want to continue paying taxes on my home so that parents, whose income is higher than mine, can send their children to private-based schools which are designed for profit for corporate interests.That goes against my philosophical beliefs of what public education should be about – the education of all children, equally. I see that the poorer children will be left behind in sub-standard, segregated-by-class, schools. I do not like the economic caste system that I see coming with this heavy-handed, relentless ideological agenda for the privatization of all government programs – including public schools.
Mike The Teacher
March 15th, 2013
11:00 am
I’m a public school teacher (four years in California and fourteen years here in Georgia).
I’m well-aware of what Roy Barnes did to the educators of this state. When he pushed through reform in 2000 he said (and I quote), “It’s cute when a second grader looks up at you and says the dog ate his homework. It’s not cute when it’s coming from our teachers.”
He later (nine years?) apologized for those comments, but his “legacy” of harm is still right here. The law punishes schools, students and teachers if a third, fifth and eighth grade student fail the CRCT in reading and math (reading only in third grade). This causes much undue stress upon everyone.
Do politicians (who are not experts on education) really think that Georgia’s teachers aren’t dedicated and willing to do what it takes? Do the politicians truly believe that the teachers (who are adults, by the way), need to be treated like children through threats? We are professionals who want all kids to succeed and will work hard to do it.
Finally, Barnes says (and he doesn’t know what he’s talking about because he’s no expert on education) that the schools shape the society.
This is wrong.
Schools are a reflection of society, not the other way around.
If you are serious about fixing “schools” then look no further than social justice. Poor neighborhoods send poor kids to schools and then those kids perform poorly on the CRCT.
If you want to see how successful a public school is (I’m not talking about private or charters, because they don’t have the same level of red tape and rules), look directly at the percentage of free and reduced lunches served to students.
It will match.
ChristyS
March 15th, 2013
11:02 am
@ Teacher, Too — agreed… and might I also add that when students are given higher grades than they deserve, the other students find out about this, decreasing the pride they felt in their well-earned grade. I call this “collateral damage” in that the kids that are working hard start to see that they don’t have to. My personal favorites are the grade mulligans (you can retake this test/quiz several times until you are happy with your score) and the group projects (everybody gets the same score even if Susie did absolutely, freakin’ nothing). Got to love those two.
living in an outdated ed system
March 15th, 2013
11:04 am
@Mary Elizabeth – I think you need to re-read what you just penned. Seriously? Have you actually looked at how much money the USPS is losing each year?? It is a dinosaur – another example of an institution that failed to correctly define the business it was in as well as sufffer from complacency and a lack of innovation. I can’t believe I just wasted finger energy to type this comment!
Mountain Man
March 15th, 2013
11:05 am
Teacher, Too @ 10:45 am
I agree with everything you said in that post. And for the record, I DO agree that more of the education dollars should get down to the teachers and the classrooms. That can be done by MANDATING (and enforcing) the 180 days in the classroom and strict limits on class sizes. Any cuts in education should then have to come from other areas.
Ray
March 15th, 2013
11:07 am
I’m always a little perplexed by those who cite low hs graduation rates — 69% — as evidence that our public schools are bad. If the public schools lowered their standards significantly so as to graduate a higher percentage of students, I’m sure these same critics would howl. It seems possible to me that public schools maybe should even be given some credit for keeping certain standards in the face of falling graduation rates. It would be easy for public schools just to cave and graduate virtually everybody.
I also don’t quite understand what the critics who cite a low graduation rate would have the public schools do about that. Should they spend time and devote resources to convincing kids the value of staying in school and graduating — kids who obviously aren’t getting the message at home that education is important? It seems that these critics would rather the schools play parent and social worker, instead of educator.
Finally, these graduation rate critics are always subtly comparing public school graduation rates to private school graduation rates, and somehow suggest that the private schools are better because they graduate a higher rate of students. This comparison seems sort of silly to me because of course kids whose parents are paying $10,000 to $25,000 per year for a private school are coming from homes where education is important, and not graduating really isn’t even conceivable. So it’s not really the private school that is better, it’s just the caliber of kids and parents.
I agree a 69% graduation rate is too low. But that is more reflective of societal and cultural problems that fail to value and stress education. Don’t blame the public schools when 31% of the kids fail to show up for school, or earn F’s.
Maximus Desimus Aurelius
March 15th, 2013
11:14 am
Funny how libs think. In the debate of healthcare, they claim the US spends way more $$ than any other country and demand that docs and hospitals provide better results. The below link will show that the US spends way more than other developed countries but get poorer results. And yet, the libs demand we throw more good money after bad even when getting bad results.
Things that make you go hmmmmmm…..”Got Hipocrasy?”
http://rossieronline.usc.edu/u-s-education-versus-the-world-infographic/
Mountain Man
March 15th, 2013
11:14 am
“Have you actually looked at how much money the USPS is losing each year?? It is a dinosaur – another example of an institution that failed to correctly define the business it was in as well as sufffer from complacency and a lack of innovation.”
Living – you are pointing the finger at the wrong people. I believe that the USPS need to be run as a business and it is somewhat of a dinosaur – having lived through the advent of e-mail. But what is keeping it losing money – and operating as a true business would – is the Congressional approval required for any changes. Congress requires that the postal service provide certain levels of service and limit the price it can charge, so THEY are the ones controlling the business. Yes, the USPS needs to switch from a pension plan to a 401k plan (like just about every other private business), but they need to be able to set delivery days and/or price of stamps and other services.
cautiously optimistic
March 15th, 2013
11:15 am
Well said Jessica. My daughter is in a good school in DeKalb, yet I am still seeking backup plans (i.e. home schooling, private school or moving). While I want DeKalb’s schools to be successful, and am an involved parent, my daughter’s education is more important to me.
Just A Teacher
March 15th, 2013
11:16 am
If you think that public education is not producing intelligent and thoughtful students, I challenge you to attend the Georgia High School State Literary Championships in Houston County this weekend.
Mountain Man
March 15th, 2013
11:16 am
“Don’t blame the public schools when 31% of the kids fail to show up for school, or earn F’s.”
AMEN, Ray, amen!!
Just A Teacher
March 15th, 2013
11:18 am
Georgia High School Association (GHSA) State Literary Championships.
Mountain Man
March 15th, 2013
11:26 am
“If you think that public education is not producing intelligent and thoughtful students, ”
Oh, I agree that public education is producing some excellent scholars. But it is also turning out students who cannot read, write, or do simple arithmetic. And they are getting the same diploma as the high performers. So when a business wants to hire a manager, how do they decide who to hire? Answer: require a college degree. At least that is what we do. We also require high school diplomas or GEDs for ANY position, so if you are one of the 31% who have dropped out – no need to apply.
Bob
March 15th, 2013
11:31 am
Democracy, You spent quite a bit of time trying to legitimize your novel, then you ruined it with “And where public education is concerned, Republicans are the ones who try to dismantle it. Frankly, that’s just plain unAmerican.”
Do you read local news ? Can’t you see what democrats/liberals have done to public education ? Do you not understand the reason we are on this topic is the way democrats have run Dekalb schools into the ground ? Do you not understand that the reason republicans want other options is because of what democrats have done to education ? Dunwoody is not contemplating a new system because of what republicans have done to a once strong school system. Nationally, democrats have also failed public school children. 80% of New York City public school grads need remedial education if they want to move on to higher education. Just think how uneducated the rest of them are. How American are those that fight tooth and nail to keep as many kids as possible in this system in the name of fairness ?
Madge From Accounting
March 15th, 2013
11:32 am
PARENTS — not government — are ultimately responsible for ensuring that their kids are well-prepared for the future, and schools are just a tool to help them meet that obligation.
Then send your child to a private school. Don’t take tax dollars from public schools to fund your child’s education — take out a loan, try to get a scholarship, borrow the money from your dad, or whatever it takes, but send your child to PRIVATE school.
That’s how it’s done.
Madge From Accounting
March 15th, 2013
11:36 am
Do you read local news ? Can’t you see what democrats/liberals have done to public education ?
I see a lot of propaganda – no real facts.
I see where the news (who, by the way no longer INVESTIGATE — just report), says that the school board is “squabbling”; yet they don’t show HOW the squabbling is affecting or HAS affected the children in the school system.
I don’t see any numbers in graduation rates going down because of squabbling.
I don’t see any numbers of teachers on furlough because of squabbling.
I don’t see any numbers of nurses being cut and Phys Ed being cut out of schools because of squabbling.
What i AM seeing however, is how lack of funds, (State Government), is affecting the quality of education in the state of Georgia.
If you can’t see that, then I feel sorry for you.
Mary Elizabeth
March 15th, 2013
11:40 am
@ living in an outdated ed system, 11:04 am
You have not been looking at the U.S. Post Office financial situation in depth. Please read the following link in full below to be better informed. Here is an excerpt from that link:
====================================================
“But what has been lost in the political debate over the Post Office is why it is losing this money. . .almost all of the postal service’s losses over the last four years can be traced back to a single, artificial restriction forced onto the Post Office by the Republican-led Congress in 2006.
At the very end of that year, Congress passed the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006 (PAEA). Under PAEA, USPS was forced to ‘prefund its future health care benefit payments to retirees for the next 75 years in an astonishing ten-year time span’ — meaning that it had to put aside billions of dollars to pay for the health benefits of employees it hasn’t even hired yet, something ‘that no other government or private corporation is required to do.’
As consumer advocate Ralph Nader noted, if PAEA was never enacted, USPS would actually be facing a $1.5 billion surplus today:
‘By June 2011, the USPS saw a total net deficit of $19.5 billion, $12.7 billion of which was borrowed money from Treasury (leaving just $2.3 billion left until the USPS hits its statutory borrowing limit of $15 billion). This $19.5 billion deficit almost exactly matches the $20.95 billion the USPS made in prepayments to the fund for future retiree health care benefits by June 2011. If the prepayments required under PAEA were never enacted into law, the USPS would not have a net deficiency of nearly $20 billion, but instead be in the black by at least $1.5 billion.’
. . .Meanwhile, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) has been pushing for legislation that would lead to widespread layoffs and break the back of the postal workers’ unions to defuse the ‘crisis’ that Congress created.”
===================================================
Link to the above statements: http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/09/28/330524/postal-non-crisis-post-office-save-itself/?mobile=nc
Madge From Accounting
March 15th, 2013
11:41 am
Oh, I agree that public education is producing some excellent scholars. But it is also turning out students who cannot read, write, or do simple arithmetic. And they are getting the same diploma as the high performers.
That requirement did not come from the local schoolboards. That requirement came from politicians within the gold dome.
Punish them — not the schoolboard members.
Mary Elizabeth
March 15th, 2013
11:44 am
Readers may also want to view the following video by Ed Schultz from “The Ed Show” entitled,
“Congress Led Post Office Changes Will Hurt Many People.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvHApjKqpow
living in an outdated ed system
March 15th, 2013
11:47 am
Points well taken, @Mountain Man. Salient points indeed. The culture is a combination of many factors – you point out a few constraints that destroy innovation. But the poor customer service comes from other factors besides Congressional controls.
Back to education now )
living in an outdated ed system
March 15th, 2013
11:53 am
@Mary Elizabeth – I am QUITE CLEAR of the facts regarding the USPS and didn’t need the long discourse with the URLs. It was NOT one thing that caused the downfall of the USPS. Are you an organizational behavioral expert? Have you studied organizations? Have you looked at how the the finances of the USPS have fared since the Internet (and email) arrived? Have you looked at how poor their customer service is and the fact that some folks would rather go buy a car than visit their local post office? I’m sorry to tell you this, but the failure of the USPS is a function of not just congressional controls, but an inability to adapt to a changing world and to correctly define the business they’re in. Think Western Union, think Xerox….think Kodak…..and on and on….
Maude
March 15th, 2013
11:53 am
Bad behavior is the major reason children do not get a good education. It is not their own behavior most of the time. Disruptive students are allowed to remain in classes and disrupt the learning of all. It is terrible how the actions of 1 or 2 per class is robbing the rest of the class an education. Until a students who are disruptive are removed from the regular classroom public education will continue to fail.
AJC isn't me
March 15th, 2013
11:57 am
Closet socialists such as @Mary Elizabeth aren’t interested in educating children or delivering the mail. What interests them is punishing achievement and preventing income imbalances often associated with it.
America’s past successes have in large part resulted from our ability to innovate when status quo isn’t getting the job done.
Rick L in ATL
March 15th, 2013
12:13 pm
@AJC I don’t think Mary Elizabeth is all that closeted. : )
This brings up a good point. You’ve seen on Facebook those funny photo-montages: “How I See Myself/How Others See Me/How My Dog Sees Me…What My Family Thinks I Do/What I Think I Do…etc.
Well, how liberals see themselves is very different from what they really are. They see themselves as champions of the underprivileged and the last bulwark against the destruction of a key public institution (traditional public schools). But what they really are is an oppressive, destructive force pitted against the very underclass they claim to want to help.
I’ve said this here before: if liberals really cared about poor black kids they’d be the first in line to raze (figuratively speaking) our existing schools and replace them with a model that holds parents, students and teachers accountable and ejects those who refuse to follow new, much harsher rules.
Shackles are shackles no matter who’s applying them and in this case it’s the liberal public-school apologists who are shackling entire generations of kids to a rusted-out model that cannot be made to work. And the most irksome part is that they walk around feeling good about what they are trying to do. Cluelessness I can forgive. But to hold back society the way they do; to actually prevent the majority of poor black kids from climbing out of the abyss by shackling them to a virulent minority –their disruptive and disinterested peers–that really is unforgivable.
Oh, yeah–the whole post office thing. USPS service in Atlanta is third-worldly. I won’t miss you, either.
Mike The Teacher
March 15th, 2013
12:22 pm
Those who make this political are simply exposing their own insecurities and primitive tribal tendencies. Education isn’t a political issue. All parents, regardless of how they usually vote (Democrat, Republican, or intelligently) want their children to get a good education. They also want a fair and just society with plenty of opportunity.
Furthermore, those with degrees in education are, as proven by their documents, better informed and more credible in this debate. Attending a school years ago doesn’t make anyone an expert. I’ve been to the hospital, but I’m no doctor.
Many of you complain about the teachers or want more accountability, but that’s not going to work. The teachers you say need to be fired are usually the newer ones, and they need the opportunity to grow and develop.
But here’s where the problem really lies: economics.
Try this: Send 25 kids who come from middle class families who value education, feed their kids properly, send them to bed at a reasonable hour, and encourage reading.
You’ll see those kids learn.
It’s too bad so many people want to blame teachers for their own failure as parents when the teacher only gets the kid 6.5 hours out of 24, and much of that is spent at lunch, recess, in PE, etc.
So the teacher gets 4 hours with your kid, and you think SHE is the reason he failed?
Think again.
Georgia Coach
March 15th, 2013
12:25 pm
@Bootney Eaten alive? Hardly. I am an administrator who posts on here, and your intellectual capacity is not one of my concerns.
Mary Elizabeth
March 15th, 2013
12:30 pm
@ living in an outdated ed system, 11:53 am
“It was NOT one thing that caused the downfall of the USPS. . . Have you looked at how the the finances of the USPS have fared since the Internet (and email) arrived?
===========================================
It is obvious that you did not bother to read the comprehensive link that I provided before responding. If you had taken the time to read that article, you would have read these words: ‘But what has been lost in the political debate over the Post Office is why it is losing this money. Major media coverage points to the rise of email or Internet services. . .’
As you can see, I had already posted the very same thought that you subsequently posted at 11:53 am. It serves one well to read the content shared by another poster before responding to that commenter’s post.
It appears to me that you simply want to spew rightwing propaganda, as is obvious from your chosen pseudonym name.
And since you asked:
As an Instructional Lead Teacher, working directly under an outstanding principal, I led the faculty in the implementation of an innovative instructional organizational design within a model school’s continuous progress program, K – 7, from 1975 – 1984. Thereafter, as the Reading Department Chair of a major high school in the greater Atlanta area from 1984 – 2000, I designed and organized a schoolwide reading program for the 1,800 students and 100 faculty members in that high school. Under my direction and organization, that Reading Department became the largest secondary Reading Department in the state of Georgia.
Maureen Downey
March 15th, 2013
12:33 pm
@To all, There are quite a few principals who are regular commenters on this blog and even some school chiefs. And they do hold their own quite well.
Maureen
mountain man
March 15th, 2013
12:34 pm
“All parents, regardless of how they usually vote (Democrat, Republican, or intelligently) want their children to get a good education. ”
Well they have a strange way of showing it when they descend upon the school and insist that their “precious flower” receive a grade they did not deserve, or be promoted to the next grade without mastering the subject matter. They are HANDICAPPING their own children and they don’t care!
mountain man
March 15th, 2013
12:36 pm
“I am an administrator who posts on here”
OK. Georgia Coach, since you are an administrator – do you work in an urban or Title I school? Take my challenge and tell us what YOU do to address attendance, discipline, and social promotion.
Mike The Teacher
March 15th, 2013
12:45 pm
One thing I find interesting, as a public school teacher, is that the private school down the street from us is able to educate children on slightly less per year than we do, and has only one layer of administration (and both the principal and assistant principal teach classes). They don’t have or need a county-level administration, followed by a state-level administration, followed by a federal-level administration.
If you were to cut off a public elementary school from the county, state and feds (in terms of regulation and rules) you would see them out-perform their former selves.
If a private school can create and implement its own curriculum then so can public schools.
It’s not that I’m opposed to a set of standards state-wide (if, of course, they would keep them in place long enough for us to actually gain proficiency in them), but the county, state, and federal government all add more and more paperwork and regulation to the point that it’s very difficult to actually spend all your time planning and teaching.
You remember the Pink Floyd Song that says, “Hey, teachers, leave those kids alone.”
How about this twist: “Hey, politicians, leave those schools alone.”
Another comment
March 15th, 2013
12:45 pm
The only solution is to have the words removed from the constitution that limit the number of school districts. All School Districts should be local. They should be no more than 1-2 districts large. We should encourage local villages. Look at Master Planning success stories, Reston, Va. ect. The real shame is this area was allowed to grow with no zoning, just developer greed and suburban sprawl.
The Villages up north show how the rich, middle class and poor all live together and put their kids in the same schools. I lived like this. I was the lower middle class or poor kid. I received the benefits of the same Education as the Richest kids in town. In fact their were no private high schools within 30 miles. The only private schools were Catholic Schools which only charged $100 no matter how large your family was. ( they still charge under $3000, per family in areas up North that have great public schools).
Chamblee Dad
March 15th, 2013
12:57 pm
@Mike the Teacher “If you want to see how successful a public school is (I’m not talking about private or charters, because they don’t have the same level of red tape and rules), look directly at the percentage of free and reduced lunches served to students.”
Not always. My children go to a Title 1 school (our free & reduced right around 70%) & it does very well – made AYP for years & all the kids in general achieve. Not exactly Vanderlyn or Oak Grove – but people actually seek our neighborhood out because of the schools – if it’s listed prominently on the real estate flyers, always a good sign. Ours isn’t fully typical because of the geographic makeup, the neighborhood closest to the school is mostly (not entirely) the 30% & then it’s surrounded by mainly apartments & smaller homes that is mostly (again, not entirely) the 70%, BUT those 70% do well. How? The teachers & staff, those “Title 1″ parents (surprised?), and to some extent the other families. We could do FAR better, but there has been a concerted effort to build connections between the two groups to make us more unified & it has worked pretty good.
In fact, when so much of the last redistricting fight was going on & several schools were going to the extent of publishing rather unfortunate “position papers” trying to maintain lines that kept the dreaded “apartment kids” out, or even better – force them out: “doesn’t it really make more sense to draw the line this way?” we did the opposite. And don’t deny it – I remember reading them – it led us to prepare our own paper asking that be allowed to keep the apartments we had – because we had worked to embrace them, & they had already been moved once a couple of years earlier, and our school was working. You don’t achieve that with just the 30% doing well, the success reaches all.
And I’ve said for years, we don’t have the only Title 1 school that does well, & our model might not work for all, but if I was an administrator I’d check schools like us out & emulate it elsewhere. Instead our success is based on local efforts & despite the administraton.
Chamblee Dad
March 15th, 2013
12:58 pm
@Mike the teacher “If you were to cut off a public elementary school from the county, state and feds (in terms of regulation and rules) you would see them out-perform their former selves.”
Now THAT is true! We’d certainly do even better.
Mountain Man
March 15th, 2013
1:10 pm
Mary Elizabeth – One of the major issues with the Post Office NOT prefunding pensions is the problem that we had when we allowed PRIVATE COMPANIES to NOT pre-fund pensions – they went out of business and left the pensioners with NOTHING. ALL companies, private or government, should prefund their pensions. Maybe 75 years is a bit extreme – I think you will see they were playing catch-up to get them up to speed.OR they could do what MOST private companies have done and do away with pensions and replace them with defined-contribution plans (401k). Those are immediately funded. They still have to catch up on all those pensioners who already exist.
Mountain Man
March 15th, 2013
1:13 pm
“Under my direction and organization, that Reading Department became the largest secondary Reading Department in the state of Georgia.”
Yes, but how did the STUDENTS do? When you left, were 100% of the graduating students reading at the required level for graduation?
Chamblee Dad
March 15th, 2013
1:14 pm
@Just a Teacher on the Georgia High School Association (GHSA) State Literary Championships, I assume you might have had a hand in some of the students competing there this weekend. Not my kids yet (ES age) not even sure what system – but if so, thank you for serving our Georgia public students well. Kids that do well in academic competitions – it’s not just the involved parents – it’s the teachers too.