Anybody out there want to rethink middle schools?
Regular Get Schooled readers know that I have doubts about the efficacy of the middle school model.
Despite decades of experimentation and refinement, middle school still doesn’t work in most places, leading me to conclude that the problem is not with the execution of the concept but with the concept itself.
In 2011, a Harvard study found that students moving from fifth grade to a middle school setting suffer a sharp drop in academic performance in reading and math, compared to peers who attend k-8 schools. The findings of the Harvard study confirmed an earlier Columbia University study.
Writing in Education Next, Harvard researchers Martin West and Guido Schwerdt explained:
Our results cast serious doubt on the wisdom of the middle-school experiment that has become such a prominent feature of American education. We find that moving to a middle school causes a substantial drop in student test scores (relative to that of students who remain in K–8 schools) the first year in which the transition takes place, not just in New York City but also in the big cities, suburbs, and small-town and rural areas of Florida.
Further, we find that the relative achievement of middle-school students continues to decline in the subsequent years they spend in such schools. Nor do we find any sign that the middle-school students catch up with those who remained in the K–8 environment once all of them have entered high school. On the contrary, students entering a middle school in grade 6 are more likely not to be enrolled in any Florida public school as 10th graders (despite having been enrolled in grade 9), a strong indication that they have dropped out of school by that time.
A local middle school teacher came to a similar conclusion about sending kids off to middle school after fifth grade. The teacher sent me this note asking how to start a discussion in the community about changing the grades configuration.
Here is her note. Let’s start that discussion:
<blockquote>I have been a middle school teacher for nearly 20 years and have gradually come to the conclusion that the middle school model does not work.
I’ve worked in DeKalb, Fulton and APS, and none of my schools used the true “teams” model with interdisciplinary themed units that we planned for in college.
I grew up in DeKalb in the 70s and have wonderful memories of my elementary school years and of staying there through the seventh grade. It is so sad now to see little sixth grade children in our building alongside, sometimes, 15-year-olds. They do not belong together.
I’ve looked at some of the research, and the majority seems to suggest that sixth grade students should be kept in elementary schools. Most of the studies cite discipline issues, but I feel that there is more to it: socially, it’s such an important age, as well as academically.
I wonder if there is a way to get people to start seriously rethinking the whole middle school concept, or at least the age groups within middle schools.</blockquote>
–From Maureen Downey, for the AJC Get Schooled blog
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141 comments Add your comment
Atlanta Mom
March 12th, 2013
9:59 am
I went to a 7-8 junior high school. I moved here and there were 6-8 middle schools. I thought they were both the same, except for the extra grade. A recent conversation with a junior HS teacher from Illinois makes me wonder. According to her, the focus for Jr. High Schools is academics. Middle schools are more focused on the child.
Can anyone here address this difference? If this is true, it seems a study needs to be done looking at junior high success or failure.
Batgirl
March 12th, 2013
10:02 am
I have a copy of the State Education Finance Study Commison’s final recommendations summary. I think this was completed back in the fall. Under Title 20 changes, it recommends removing the middle school program definition, but still funding in QBE by combining programs as previously recommended. I don’t really know what this means, but suppose it could mean that we can start moving away from the middle school model, at least within traditional middle school buildings. If anyone really knows what it means, please explain it.
bu2
March 12th, 2013
10:02 am
They should consider going back to K-6. If not, have 6th grade in the middle school be like elementary with minimal class changes. Put them together in one wing of the middle school.
Don’t send the newest teachers to the toughest group of kids to teach.
Have a serious team approach as Maureen discusses.
Establish some firm expectations on discipline up front. That doesn’t mean sending everyone who violates the most minor rule to a special school with the true disciplinary problems, but set expectations. Sell the students on enforcing those on their peers.
Dr. John Trotter
March 12th, 2013
10:07 am
My preference? K through 6 (Elementary), 7 and 8 (Junior High), 9 through 12 (Senior High). For the record, the Goodlad Study which came out of UCLA in the 1980s, a study of the studies, found that there was not a single organizational structure that consistently yielded better academic results than the others.
SchoolMe
March 12th, 2013
10:11 am
Pride and Joy “Some childen in South Dekalb and South Atlanta actually begin having sex and shockingly enough, having children.” it happens ALL over the state; Get that straight first. I myself grew up in South DeKalb, went 1st – 7th grade and 8th – 12th. I currently have a middle schooler and a high schooler. I agree that 6 graders should NOT be in the building with 8th graders. I would like to see the system set up a 6 and 7th grade transition, if that doesn’t work, let’s go back to the old way.
living in an outdated ed system
March 12th, 2013
10:15 am
Middle School will always be the most challenging phase of K-12 education. Why? Because this is when kids’ hormones kick in. They go through lots of changes and these biological developments can, in this layperson’s opinion, add more hurdles to the learning challenges at this point in the students’ academic careers.
I realize that this is probably a “real estate” issue, but I have always admired the “one-school” concept that some independent schools embrace, whereby K-5, 6-8 and 9-12 are all in the same general proximity to one another. In addition, I have always felt that certain schools focus much more on “community,” where there is a buddy system in place. Here, the older students are paired up with the younger ones for mentorship. I realize this may not directly affect learning, but I do think that school districts must find ways to bring their schools closer together. Add this to the laundry list of challenges plaguing traditional public education in America. As a child, I remember having a somewhat traumatic transition from 5th to 6th grade. Transitioning into a larger community with different demographics can be quite stressful for children – lets not forget that.
bu2
March 12th, 2013
10:17 am
Dekalb has major challenges and a major re-building program in prgress.
The new board should get Thurmond and the next superintendent to re-think how middle schools are done.
Its interesting that Kittredge (and I presume Wadsworth) magnet elementary goes through 6th grade.
Anchorite
March 12th, 2013
10:20 am
The middle school model doesn’t work, but, at least from my experience, neither does the (public) K-8 model. Think about it, K-8 equals at minimum 5 years at school with 13 or 14 year olds–at maximum, with 16 year olds! What ever happened to K-3, 4-6, 7-9, then 10-12? I know of some private schools that, while truly K-12, actually serve their students in this way.
ColonelJack
March 12th, 2013
10:26 am
Growing up in Chicago, I went to a K-6 elementary school. We began the “class change” idea with sixth grade. Had I stayed there, I would’ve gone to a 7-8 junior high school, then to a 9-12 high school. Instead, I moved to LaGrange, Georgia … where I went to a 7-9 junior high school. Moving in the 9th grade to Columbus from LaGrange, I began attending a 9-12 high school. And everything was just plain wonderful!
I taught middle school for 23 years and never – not one time – did anyone bother to explain the “Middle School Concept” to me. Since I didn’t know anything about middle schools, I taught as if I were teaching in a junior high school.
Let’s get rid of middle schools entirely and return to the junior high school concept … a concept with which I still can’t find a single thing wrong.
NW GA Math/Science Teacher
March 12th, 2013
10:28 am
I think you’re going to hit a major logistical snag with pulling 9th away from 10-12 because of the way credits are currently earned in HS. Through 8th, you either pass a whole grade or you don’t. Starting with 9th, it’s individual courses. This might be solvable with online stuff, but I’m not sure that’s gonna be the healthiest fix either.
bu2
March 12th, 2013
10:31 am
@living
There is something to being an “example.” In both my childrens’ schools, I see my children and the other older kids feeling a need to “model” for the younger children. In my Junior Highs, the 7th graders were the “new” kids and didn’t get too out of line. The 8th graders were awful. The 9th graders weren’t saints by any stretch, but were vastly better than the 8th graders.
USMC
March 12th, 2013
10:33 am
“Anybody out there want to rethink middle schools?”–Maureen
Finally, some common sense comes from Maureen’s blog. Thank You!
Anonymous in DeKalb
March 12th, 2013
10:36 am
Maureen, is it possible that tiny, third-rate service provider MACE and Dr. John Trotter—have a self-promotion agreement in place here? If so, how much longer does that agreement run?
Just wondering.
Mountain Man
March 12th, 2013
10:47 am
Again, we are arguing about things that have very little impact on student achievement. Do these school models address Discipline? Do they address attendance? Do they address social promotion? Figure those out first before you go tweaking a system to get a certain objective.
Private Citizen
March 12th, 2013
11:00 am
Progressive Humanist, You are right to call out attention to the middle school “bitter 8th grader” phenomenon. Many of these are being threatened about testing and graduation (the system in school verbally puts loads of pressure on them) and just as they have adjusted to a school change, it is time to pack it up and move again and invariably friends get lost and dispersed. There are a lot of faux-adult bitter eighth graders and it is cause and effect and there is sound cause why they feel treated in a bad way. The whole exit / testing / performance for graduation thing is highly depersonalising.
Maureen Downey
March 12th, 2013
11:18 am
@Anonymous, I know that Dr. Trotter writes long but he is not the only one who does so. In addition, he does at least address the issues at hand — albeit in long fashion.
I am more concerned with monitoring and purging racist posts — and there are plenty that you don’t see because they are caught by the filter, I have put the poster in moderation or I move quickly to take them down. Under our new registration system, posters will be able to report comments that they think are out of line or irrelevant. Those comments will automatically come down if enough posters report them. So, there will be more community control over comments.
Maureen
RexDogma
March 12th, 2013
11:21 am
Maureen, I too grew up in DeKalb Co with grade 1 through 7 and I felt that this model was wonderful. Some kids I know in middle schools had trouble with the adjustment moving twice to new schools middle and high in just 3 years. Many problems in schools are in Middle Schools such as discipline and the age maturity level between the grades does not work. In my area in South Gwinnett, the real problems are with the middle schools. Maybe we can go back. Thanks for this insightful article.
Decaturite
March 12th, 2013
11:27 am
Agree with those who note that transitions are difficult and no more should occur than necessary. In City Schools of Decatur, not only is there a middle school transition, but there’s also a transition to the 4/5 “Academy”. (What makes an “academy” vs. a school like all the other CSD schools is not clear!) The worst of it is that the 4/5 started out as an elementary school, supposedly with lots of opportunity for students from the different feeder K-3 elementaries to intermingle and for teachers to co-teach, but now it has morphed into a crowded pseudo-middle school.
Rising sixth graders are still in the latency period; many are only 11 years old. The girls aren’t boy crazy yet and the boys can barely tie their shoes. Throwing them in with a lot of preteens and teens is not developmentally appropriate.
I prefer a K-6 Elementary, 7/8 Junior High School, 9-12 High School model. It’s the best fit develomentally if one looks at the developmental pediatric literature vs. the educational jargon.
Principal Jones
March 12th, 2013
11:31 am
Public school policy is dictated more by cutting costs than anything else. Over crowding is a universal problem as schools are closed and consolidated. It is cheaper to operate fewer and larger facilities. That formula rarely improves scores or the learning experience.
Public schools are getting worse, without question. Clayton first, now DeKalb. City of Atlanta will be next.
Dr. John Trotter
March 12th, 2013
11:40 am
Maureen, Is it possible that there is a cabal of administrators, like Anonymous, who can’t deal with my arguments but want to use your blog to try to trash MACE and me? Ha! Just kidding. Off to another picket! Wow! Life is fun!
Jhunterbob
March 12th, 2013
11:45 am
Is this the only study?
I’m guessing the study is probably comparing public to private schools. How may public schools do you know that are K-8? But many Private schools are K-8. I just don’t think you are making a fair comparison.
I remember years ago looking at scores across Elementary, Middle and High schools. In all cases elementary was better than Middle and then in High school the scores pick back up.
I agree that it really is an age issue and not necessarily a model issue. Legally in Middle school kids can’t drop out so it drags down the middle school scores. In high school they can so many of the non performing kids are not dragging down the averages anymore.
Spacey
March 12th, 2013
11:46 am
I am also a Dekalb native and did not attend a middle school.
What a cost-saving measure to eliminate Middle Schools!
Eliminate all those Principals and close some schools.
You could also set up an alternative school for the kids that are held back. There would be an empty building for those that need the extra instruction. It would also eliminate the older (out of place) kids in a place where they could get individual instruction.
Jovan Miles
March 12th, 2013
11:46 am
I attended Canby Lane Elementary in Decatur when it was a K-7 school and then attended Columbia High School in Decatur when is was an 8-12 school. I was a magnet student at both schools.
I feel that my experience was beneficial in that I never experienced the middle school syndrome of rampant apathy or boredom that came as a consequence of teachers modeling themselves after high school teachers. Remaining in an elementary schools setting kept learning fun. I looked forward to going to school because I knew that my teachers and the school community would always make an effort to make our lessons enjoyable.
When I entered 8th grade at Columbia I benefited in many ways. First, I got to experience all that high school had to offer; team sports, band, class changes, and older women
Second, when my grade took a nose dive in 8th grade my HOPE eligible academic record was safe. I had a year to get used to time management, dealing with the various personalities of 5-6 different teachers, and navigating the wide world of high school before any of those distractions could limit my chances of earning the HOPE scholarship.
I have taught students in grade 6-8 in DeKalb, APS, and at 2 charter schools. The transition from 5th to 6th grade is difficult in that many of the students aren’t adequately prepared to manage their time, balance all of their new responsibilities, and deal with the social/emotional isolation that may occur in middle school. The fact that the teachers are often heavily pressured to focus on testing outcomes rather than the social, emotional, AND academic growth of students simply compounds the difficulties faced by middle school students.
The K-7 and 8-12 model also makes the transition to high school easier in that the students have a full year to get it together before their performance counts. Far too many HS freshman ruin their academic records while they learn to adjust to the realities of high school.
As a Metro Atlanta educator I say do away with the middle school model altogether. Bring back the k-7 and 8-12 models. Those models worked.
Techmom
March 12th, 2013
11:48 am
Wholeheartedly agree that the middle-school concept is a failure and it’s where public education falls apart. I just had this conversation with my brother & sister-in-law since my son is about to graduate HS and we forked over private school tuition for all but 2 years of his education. My advice: put your kid in public school as long as you can. Elementary is typically fine; you’ll find teachers who teach because they love kids and can form bonds with them and typically even relationships with the parents (it’s a lot easier to have 1 teacher to go to when you have an issue with your child but when there are 6-7 teachers; they’re just labeled as a “problem child” and not one teacher will really take the time to help the child because they’re too busy dealing with 120-150 other kids during the day). But be prepared when they get to middle school to pay tuition if it doesn’t work. Some kids are fine in public schools; MANY are not. Many are lost in the shuffle and while they may survive, few thrive and few actually make significant strides in education. What are the countries who lead the work in education doing? Are middle schools unique to America?
Maureen Downey
March 12th, 2013
11:49 am
@jhunter, There are two studies cited in my post; one by Columbia researchers and one by a Harvard team. This link will take you to a long list of studies that look at all aspects of middle school
But these two recent studies look at middle school versus k-8.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&q=related:UR03eleijegJ:scholar.google.com/&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&ei=DE4_UaKVHoSK9QSt3YC4BQ&ved=0CEsQzwIwAw
Maureen
Techmom
March 12th, 2013
11:49 am
What are the countries who lead the *world* in education doing?
JM64
March 12th, 2013
11:52 am
There are lots of theories being tossed around to address the data that was thrown out in this summary. Is the data available to look and compare the methods of teaching at the different schools in the study?
Generally from an age perspective, having 6th graders back into the elementary classroom would probably be best for most students. Some obviously mature quicker and would transistion quicker.
Maureen Downey
March 12th, 2013
11:56 am
@To all, Here is a link to a NYT feature called “Room for Debate,” in which several experts weigh in on a topic. Here is the one on middle school configurations:
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/06/18/the-middle-school-conundrum
dcb
March 12th, 2013
11:58 am
Ahah! At last someone has hit the nail right on the head. Decaturite above concludes: “If one looks first at the reason for the shift to the middle school concept – I prefer a K-6 Elementary, 7/8 Junior High School, 9-12 High School model. It’s the best fit develomentally if one looks at the developmental pediatric literature vs. the educational jargon.”
Without going into detail of all that is involved, the descriptor DEVELOPMENTAL is the key in understanding the middle school philosophy. So if you buy into developmental being the first and most important objective to look at when deciding between the middle schools vs. all other school grade groupings, forget concluding that you can evaluate the effectiveness of any by academic achievement measures. If as Mountain Man above states: “Again, we are arguing about things that have very little impact on student achievement. Do these school models address Discipline? Do they address attendance? Do they address social promotion? Figure those out first before you go tweaking a system to get a certain objective” – then developmental really should have little and maybe even no part in the argument. In other words its not so simple but a case of concluding that developmental or student achievement is your major objective in the school model you select before you attempt to arrive at a shopping list of the pros and cons of any age grouping.
Ann
March 12th, 2013
12:03 pm
Criticism of the middle school concept has been around for quite awhile. Change is slow to come, though. Time Magazine did a lengthy article on problems with the Middle School Concept eight years ago and profiled several major school systems who were dropping the concept. It is useful to read the article “Is Middle School Bad for Kids?” http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1088694-1,00.html
Georgia Coach
March 12th, 2013
12:03 pm
As usual, Maureen, you missed the point. You are allowing Trotter to promote a commercial enterprise from which he makes his living.
Using that logic why not let say a textbook salesman promote his products?
If he wants to espouse his view points, fine, but you should not let him promote his organization.
Maureen Downey
March 12th, 2013
12:07 pm
@Georgia, But I also let his critics speak out about those posts. Under our current system, the editors get reader complaints about posters, which are then forwarded to me. I don’t have any about his posts. In fact, I just got a spirited defense of him from another poster who likes to read his comments.
But again, once I shift blog platforms later this week, readers will have greater controls in having comments automatically removed.
Maureen
mysoapbox
March 12th, 2013
12:16 pm
Amen. Go back to 1st through 7th in elementary and 8th through 12th in high school. It worked for my generation.
babs
March 12th, 2013
12:17 pm
I am wondering if middle schools were designed because neither the elementary schools nor the high schools could handle that age. My older daughter went to one, and was bullied, the administration handled it exactly the way they should not have, and as a result, she started not liking school until college. We put our younger one into a private K-6 grade school, with 7-8 as middle school, then onto high school. It seemed to work out much better. Obviously I’m only comparing a sample size of 2, and it’s apples to oranges. But we liked the K-6 experience far better. Then only 7-8th are in the middle school pressure cooker (not so much academics as social, we think).
Dr. John Trotter
March 12th, 2013
12:23 pm
About to head to a picket, but before I leave, let me leave this thought: When any of you actually meets head on what I have to say and can debate me on the merits or the demerits of my arguments, then I will pay you some real attention. I am John Trotter, and, yes, I happen to be Chairman of the Board at MACE. Does this automatically disqualify me from making comments? I have seen Maureen invite the leaders of other organizations to write articles here. Do I cry about this? No. This is her choice. No big deal. Those of you who are naysayers are, in my opinion, just jealous and small-minded. I am quire sure that Maureen would allow and even welcome any comments that Mr. Turner of GAE or Mr. Callahan at PAGE would want to make here. Or, for that matter, anything that Herb Garrett of GSSA or Sis Henry of GSBA would want to say. Maureen has been very fair.
Please forgive any typos. Gotta run. A picket is calling!
God Bless the Teacher!
March 12th, 2013
12:27 pm
K-7 (split the building so K and 7 have no reason to be in the hallways together), 8-9, then 10-12. Some of our lunch discussion has been how we need to have a grade 8.5 for those who need extra help getting to 9th grade course work without being socially promoted. The 8-9 school would allow that to happen, along with being sure the learning environment is more in tune with that at the future receiving high school.
Also, a separate K-12 school should be in place so students who fall more than 1 year behind acadmeically may go to get caught up and/or finish out the school experience. This would NOT be a school for discipline issues, but rather students who truly struggle and need more one-on-one attention to learn the material.
Bhorsoft
March 12th, 2013
12:33 pm
I was in an interesting situation. I’m an Air Force brat and was in a different school every couple of years. I was bussed to a formerly Black school in 6th Grade as it was the first year of desegregation in South Carolina. Fortunately for the 6th Graders we were in the original 6 room school house away from the modern facility for the 7th and 8th Graders. There was a lot of trouble in the main facility but virtually none in the “One Room School House”. I actually had one the most amazing teachers in my life there – Dr. Otis Scott. Homeroom and science teacher, AME minister and cotton farmer. Drove his tractor to school on a couple of days. I have fond memories of that school despite all the turmoil of the times. For us 6th graders, it seemed an extension of elementary school, although this was the first time we got different teachers for different subjects. I think it helped me as it felt more “grown-up”
The next year we were transferred to Izmir, Turkey and I attended a DoD school. The “High School” was grades 7 – 12 with only about 300 students in all grades. I really felt I was in High School as I had classes with those who were in grades 9 – 12. We 7th and 8th graders had some limits – we weren’t on the varsity sports teams and we weren’t in the advanced science and math classes. However we socialized with all grade levels and went to dances and other school activities. I was there through 9th Grade when we returned to the states – and I was in 3 more High Schools until I graduated (on time).
I think it worked for me – I’ve gone on to earn a B.A., M.A in Computer Science, and an M.B.A. I’m weak in some areas (math) due to a lack of continuity as we moved from school to school, but I’m stronger in other areas. Having involved, concerned parents also helped – and I think that is the key. I’m convinced a good education is possible regardless of the “system”.
Hillbilly D
March 12th, 2013
12:35 pm
Back in my day, grammar school was grades 1-7 and high school was grades 8-12. We seem to have survived.
Georgia Coach
March 12th, 2013
12:52 pm
It is not Trotter’s comments that are the problem. It is his shameless self promotion of his organization. Other organizational leaders focus on issues when they comment. Trotter use comments to glorify himself.
Again, the point was missed.
Anonymous in DeKalb
March 12th, 2013
1:05 pm
@Maureen
Dr. John Trotter offends readers not because of the excessive length of some posts—but rather because he so often uses them as vehicles to shill for his tiny, third-rate group MACE.
bu2
March 12th, 2013
1:09 pm
The defenders of the middle school are missing the point.
Its not just the building, but the way the students are taught. Should they be taught and treated like high schoolers? I’ve heard lots of middle school teachers talk about how difficult the transition is to moving every class and trying to stay organized. I think there’s something to the building, but the problems go beyond that.
Ray
March 12th, 2013
1:11 pm
I’ve thought there was something wrong with middle school, or junior high, ever since I went thru it about 35 years ago. I went to a K-6 elementary school, which was wonderful — great teachers, great friends, very nurturing, excellent. Then I went to a 7-8 junior, which approx. 5 elementary schools fed into — it was a nightmare, scary, crowded, lots of fights, you hardly got to know any of your teachers, and I, like I suspect many of my classmates, withdrew. Then I went to a 9-12 high school and it was better, but it wasn’t until about 11th grade that I really came out of the shell and trauma of junior high.
I think K-8 would be great. The studies say K-8 would work better educationally and developmentally. It would be a continuation of the positive K-5 or K-6 experinec that most experience. I wouldn’t be that worried about 14 year old 8th graders and kindergarteners on the same campus — I think it would actually help make the hormone driven 7th and 8th graders more mellow, and better behaved. I have an 8th grader now, and watching her and her friends, they’re fine/great around little kids — it’s being in a large bunches of only 6th to 8th graders together that brings out the problems, the insecurities, and the acting out.
But unfortunately, as a poster above pointed out, we’ve invested so much in middle school or junior high school buildings all across the country, that there is little likelihood, especially in these economic times of tighter public budgets, that we would spend again to convert all of our school buildings back to K-8 facilities. And it would take major spending to do that — you couldn’t just use current K-5’s as K-8’s. It would require major capital expenditure, so much so that it is probably pretty unrealistic on a widespread scale in the near future.
Going back to K-6, and 7-8 (and 9-12), or even K-5, 6 academy, 7-8, and 9-12, would not be the best, but would probably be better than 6-8 middle schools, and would be more financially do-able.
Anchorite
March 12th, 2013
1:12 pm
We could just do what the Newnan Time Herald once called for, several years ago, as an April Fool’s day joke: elimination of seventh grade! Consistently seventh graders pull the test scores down and are more frequently behavior problems, so let’s just do away with seventh grade. kidding, kidding, kidding…
Stephen
March 12th, 2013
1:14 pm
I was in the Dekalb model in the 70s as well with k-7 and 8-12. It worked fine, but we were in our own hall in 8th grade at the high schools.
RJ
March 12th, 2013
1:16 pm
My elementary school was one of the last that was K-6. A few years after I left it changed to K-5. I attended middle school in grades 7 and 8. As a former middle school teacher, I can tell you that 6th graders just aren’t ready. They need that extra year of development and growth. I pulled my oldest out of middle school in 6th grade when I saw him struggling to perform. I don’t think any of the decision makers are ready to say this model is a failure. My youngest will definitely be going to catholic school for pre K-8.
@Pride, please stop with the racial comments. It’s getting really old. As someone that went to school in Buckhead with the rich white, I can assure you they had plenty of sex, did major drugs, and even shop lifted for the thrill. They laugh about it today on facebook. Ha, ha, I guess. I never did any of it.
Batgirl
March 12th, 2013
1:17 pm
@Bhorsoft, you are absolutely right, a good education is possible regardless of the “system”. However, you have to want it to get it.
Those of you complaining about Dr. Trotter need to leave him alone. He has the right to speak just as the rest of us do. If he gets to be too long-winded or self-aggrandizing, just skip his posts. That’s what I do, and I never feel like I’ve missed much.
bu2
March 12th, 2013
1:19 pm
@Ray
In Dekalb we are rebuilding our schools and converting to 900 student elementaries. You can do a gradual conversion as we are to the larger elementaries. But you need a plan first and not just a 5 year plan.
And you can change middle schools without changing the building. You can have fewer class changes and segregate the grades in various ways.
As you mention, it may make 7th and 8th graders mellower. One of my 3 elementaries was a K-8 (the others were K-6) and I don’t remember any interaction or problems with the 8th graders.
MACE is tiny & third-rate
March 12th, 2013
1:21 pm
Why not charge Dr. Trotter for advertising space like you normally do with AJC advertisers?
bu2
March 12th, 2013
1:24 pm
@Stephen
Similarly to you, I had 7th grade in a wing of a high school. It wasn’t a long-term setup, but the Junior High was over-crowded while the HS had space, so they moved most of the 7th graders to the HS while they worked on a plan for a new JHS to relieve over-crowding. We weren’t really impacted by the high schoolers. It was almost like a separate school within the school.
ChristyS
March 12th, 2013
1:35 pm
Talk about transitions… I actually went to THREE different middle schools in different states and my brother attended three different high schools. We didn’t have the social/transitional issues the majority of people are harping about on this blog. IMHO, I think the schools back then were allowed to discipline and I know (yes, know) that the kids were better prepared. This is not a slight against teachers, but rather it is my critique on the dumbed-down curriculum and all the fancy edufads that have gotten in the way of real learning.
I know I’m in the minority here, but I don’t think the MS model is a failure. I think the failure is due to our need to coddle everyone and socially promote unprepared students. Mastery is no longer the ideal; instead, edu-businesses are pushing equal outcomes. What garbage!
Many of you think the middle school should be done away with. What would you replace it with and at what cost? Let’s look at some other costly coddling going on. My county has a couple elementary schools split into the K-2 and 3-5 model. Sounds good… until you realize there are now TWO principals, TWO assistant principals, and TWO assistant administrators (whatever THAT is) in the same building. That’s a lot of cheese not being spent in the classroom. At least the Seattle split-ES model moves the K-2 to a different school and keeps the admin costs the same. Then, my county also keeps building 9th grade academies. You now have more facility, infrastructure, and utility cost to separate one grade level. Is it worth it? I don’t think so. What about the advanced student? What do they do when they can’t take a 10th or 11th grade class?
On a personal level, I can not wait for my 5th grader to move to the middle school. She is ready to make the transition and is actually excited to leave the ES. And before anyone gives me grief about hormones and nastiness, let me tell you the mean girls start early in elementary school. She’s already experienced it and has come through fine. Additionally, our middle school does a wonderful job of maintaining grade-based “pods,” so she will only interface with 7th and 8th graders on the bus.
Just my two cents, but I believe we should spend less time worrying about redesigning education and spend more time and money actually educating.